SoberNotMature - Episode 222 (Erica - Rules But No Plan - Just For The Health Of It)

00:00:01.88
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And we have a friend on tonight, right, Mike?

00:00:10.97
Mike
Sure.

00:00:11.77
Bill
See, Mike, Mike literally just met her a couple of minutes ago, and I've never actually met Erica before.

00:00:15.32
Mike
Yep.

00:00:17.01
Bill
But um I was trying to think, Erica, when did when did we actually connect on Instagram? We've been on there for like four years. I don't remember who's right away. You might have been in the first batch of people that I met. I don't recall, though, do you?

00:00:28.15
Erica
Um, it could have been i've started my account and in 2021. So yeah, yeah, so probably around Yeah, probably around the time you started.

00:00:33.24
Bill
Oh yeah. Before us. Yeah.

00:00:38.71
Bill
Yeah. I just got on there and we just started, uh, I mean, well, when we got on there just to promote this, this garbage that we do. And, uh, um, I mean, I just started literally to begin with, I searched for people with, cause somebody had told me that they're like search for profiles was sober in the, in the, the Instagram to handle and yours has that. So I'm, I'm guessing that's why I'm guessing you're one of the, probably one of the first people that popped up, um, you know, as far as that goes, but, um We're going to get into, obviously, you know who Erica is, where she's from, how he came about, and all those sort of things. But to begin with, if if you could do us a favor, Erica, just to do a really quick introduction, maybe a minute or two, just who you are, where you are, um where you came from. Just very brief. We'll get into your full story in a minute, but just a brief introduction, if you wouldn't mind.

00:01:20.47
Erica
All right, well, hello. um My name is Erica, of course, and I live in Austin, Texas. I am a 48-year-old mom, dog mom of four, and I am a personal trainer. I was a special education teacher, and I used to work with individuals with disabilities. But when I got sober, I decided to to change course a little bit, and now I am a a personal trainer.

00:01:45.69
Erica
um I guess it's along the lines of just helping people, whether it's physically, mentally, emotionally.

00:01:45.98
Bill
Nice.

00:01:50.73
Erica
That's kind of my I wanna say passion is just really helping people and especially like I'd say individuals with disabilities, older individuals, seniors and children.

00:02:03.39
Erica
So yeah, that's, why are you laughing at me, man?

00:02:06.55
Mike
I'm sorry. i just, i fall it I fall into all. No, I'm not laughing at you.

00:02:10.62
Erica
Okay.

00:02:10.66
Mike
I'm laughing at myself because I fall into all of those categories.

00:02:14.39
Erica
oh it' your Oh, okay, I got you.

00:02:17.02
Bill
Yeah, i was I was thinking the same thing. Well, well seniors, that's why almost laughed. I'm like, what do you mean by seniors and elderly?

00:02:21.81
Mike
Right.

00:02:21.90
Bill
you know Do you mean us?

00:02:23.41
Mike
yeah

00:02:23.58
Erica
Yeah, I'm senior fitness certified. And I, yeah, i'm I'm not sure if you quite qualify for that yet. But, you know, oh, there really isn't an age.

00:02:29.32
Bill
what's What's the age?

00:02:31.90
Erica
Are you on Medicare?

00:02:32.25
Bill
Okay, kid.

00:02:32.98
Erica
No.

00:02:33.62
Bill
No, not not yet. Not yet.

00:02:35.03
Erica
OK, there you're good.

00:02:35.35
Mike
Getting close.

00:02:35.99
Erica
You're good. Mm

00:02:37.11
Bill
Well, here here's it the funny thing, though, is that Mike and I, I mean, we're we've been open about our ages. I'm 57. He's 59. I mean, we're' we're old fuckers when it comes down to it.

00:02:43.54
Erica
hmm.

00:02:45.51
Bill
And I knew how old you were just because of the podcast. But we were talking about you as an upcoming guest. And i was ah all I said was, ah I said, I'm not going to bring out her age. If she wants to say it, she could do that when she's on. But, like, she's younger than us.

00:02:57.02
Bill
Mike's like, fucking everyone's younger than us. Which, I i mean, it is it is what it is. But, but yeah.

00:03:03.86
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:03:04.31
Erica
Yeah, I used to be all hush hush about it.

00:03:04.98
Bill
Yeah.

00:03:06.31
Erica
Now I'm like, you know, I'm just glad to be alive. So there you go.

00:03:08.50
Mike
Exactly.

00:03:09.92
Bill
Right. Yeah. Mike, Mike was, we were, when were we talking about that? Mike at probably the last couple of months, I think where, you know, people had said something about, were you, were you mad or, you know, somebody said, you know, was that ah bumming out to be like 50 or whatever?

00:03:18.91
Mike
Yeah, whatever. Uh-huh.

00:03:21.32
Bill
And you're like, you're like, I didn't think I'd live to see 45.

00:03:24.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:25.82
Erica
Yeah.

00:03:25.98
Bill
yeah Yeah, I mean, I wasn't supposed to live to see 42. So, you know, hitting 57, that's ah and it's a win. It's a win and a half. So, but I mean, number one, thank you for, I mean, this was kind of short notice, you know, and again, we've we've talked often on Chichetta back and forth on on Instagram.

00:03:33.98
Erica
Mm hmm.

00:03:42.56
Bill
This is the first time we've ever actually spoken, but um you know had an opportunity to i just i i followed you and i watch what you do um i know you do a lot of things which i'm sure we're going get into but um after listening to i saw the post on the as far as the podcast i'm like well want to listen to that you know and that's why i you know shortly after that is when i messaged you i'm like hey i said if you ever want to want to come on you're like let me know and then we had a cancellation it just everything everything fell into place so i don't think it was even two weeks ago that we had originally talked about it so

00:03:45.03
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:04:11.60
Bill
I'm obviously glad that you had the opportunity to to come on here. So, Mike, I listened to the the other podcast that ran for, I think the other one was an hour, right, Erica? Was that right?

00:04:20.73
Erica
Yeah, just about. Yeah.

00:04:22.14
Bill
Okay. And I i heard Erica's story.

00:04:22.98
Mike
v

00:04:24.26
Bill
um And the good thing is that I told Mike this before, but um I think she's going to line up pretty closely with what we do.

00:04:30.39
Mike
citizen citizens

00:04:30.94
Bill
But tell her anyhow, how we how we tell stories.

00:04:33.18
Mike
Right. Well,

00:04:34.14
Erica
no I've heard some of your guys' and stuff.

00:04:35.77
Bill
yeah

00:04:37.15
Erica
I know.

00:04:38.01
Bill
Yeah, kind

00:04:38.00
Mike
Okay, good. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, right, we just, you know, not to single you out, but we do this to everybody that comes on.

00:04:39.64
Erica
But go for it.

00:04:44.81
Mike
um Right, we we know how to get fucked up. We know how to fuck up our lives and fuck up the lives of everyone around us.

00:04:49.03
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:04:52.06
Mike
We don't like drunk logs is basically the bottom line. um We're interested in the solution. So, you know, clearly a little qualification, that's all good, and whatever, but you know, blow by blow.

00:05:04.79
Mike
Again, i know how to get loaded. and i could i could sit on here for five, six hours and tell you how to get fucked up. um We all know how to do that.

00:05:12.66
Bill
hey

00:05:14.17
Mike
If you're listening to this podcast, you probably know how to get loaded. We don't need to tell you. Yeah, we want to know about the solution. So again, little qualification, your background, all that good stuff, but drunkalogs suck.

00:05:26.71
Bill
Yeah.

00:05:26.84
Erica
ye

00:05:29.50
Bill
Yeah. So that, that means it's your turn, Erica. Go ahead. Run, run, run, run wild, run wild.

00:05:31.45
Mike
yeah Sure.

00:05:31.82
Erica
Oh, it's my turn. Okay. All right. Um, well, geez, I don't know when nurse set when I was two. no I'm just kidding. Um, no, I, um, as you know, last month, I actually celebrated nine years of sobriety and 48 years of age.

00:05:47.14
Bill
Congratulations.

00:05:49.09
Erica
They're on the exact same day. So it's kind of it really birthdays were not my my thing back in the day. They were, you know, had a lot of mixed feelings around it. But now that I celebrate my sober birthday on the same day, it's kind of changed it.

00:06:02.94
Erica
um I did walk into detox on my 39th birthday.

00:06:03.10
Bill
Right.

00:06:09.08
Erica
So it was, wasn't the first time that this has happened that tried. But so 2011, I actually went to an inpatient program and for 30 days, and there's a whole other story there.

00:06:24.77
Erica
I, you know, I disappeared. It was, it, there's a whole, that's a whole other, a whole other story. um But it just didn't work for me.

00:06:30.49
Bill
ah

00:06:31.77
Erica
It just, I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready to accept the fact that I really had a problem. Um, and even prior to that, my drinking had become very unmanageable and out of control.

00:06:43.73
Erica
you know, starting at a young age, I was like, it was one of those that I loved alcohol, like from the get go. It was one of those that this is just amazing what this can do for me. Cause alcohol wasn't only the thing, the only thing I use, I use food, I use relationships, fitness, I use all kinds of things throughout my life to kind of get rid of this nasty, disgusting feelings.

00:06:53.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:04.01
Erica
I just didn't want to feel anymore.

00:07:05.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:05.67
Bill
Right.

00:07:05.88
Erica
You know, I didn't have, you know, any ways to cope. I didn't have healthy ways to cope. So but when I found alcohol at a young age and then as I got older, it became um just it became my go to the thing that I love to do.

00:07:18.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:19.32
Erica
That's that was just it. Like, you know, a lot of people. I mean, I didn't start out where I ended up or else I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't still be here today. But something kept me going back to, and it was, you know, being able to numb out, being able to get rid of ah the uncomfortable feelings and also getting the feelings that I want, the confidence, the, yeah, you know, I want to feel better. I want to feel like I look better. i want, you know, this person to like me. I want, I was just, I'm still a people pleaser, which is something I, you know, I do work on.

00:07:48.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:48.67
Bill
Right.

00:07:49.11
Erica
But, um but yeah, so it just became, more progressive as we know addiction is that it's chronic progressive and deadly if, if it's it left untreated. So as it just went through it, you know, college, high school, college, and then as life, you know, becomes life and things become a little more unmanageable, um, my drinking decided to become a little more, you know, progressive.

00:07:59.11
Mike
Right.

00:08:16.95
Erica
Since again, i didn't I turned to what I knew. If there's marital, son, family, work, financial stressors, I went to what I knew. i went to what I knew would help me you know just fucking num numb it all out.

00:08:30.42
Mike
it is

00:08:30.73
Bill
Right.

00:08:31.29
Erica
And that's what I did. And not knowing, it's sometimes it's like a day and night thing. I'm like, okay. how did I end up from point A to point B? I know it was this like progressive years in the making, but how the hell did I end up here?

00:08:45.35
Erica
Like we were you talking about age, I'm 48, but when I got sober at 39, I'm like, what the hell happened in my thirties?

00:08:45.88
Mike
Right.

00:08:52.23
Mike
Hey.

00:08:52.28
Bill
Right.

00:08:52.63
Erica
Like, where, where are they? And it's like, and it you know, sometimes I have to sit with that because I'm at, you know, a phase in life right now. And I sit with that sometimes.

00:09:00.62
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:09:00.96
Erica
I can't sit with too long because then I'll drown in it.

00:09:00.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:03.12
Erica
But yeah, But yeah, I'm like, okay, yeah, I lost all this time, fine. But through those times when I was trying to cope and to deal with with life as it was now, and my mental health suffered, my physical health, you know emotional health you know began to struggle, a lot of stuff from my past began to kind of emerge um and kind of started coming to the forefront.

00:09:27.66
Erica
you know I've got you know daddy issues. you know I've got all of those things. So those things started to kind of take over my life.

00:09:31.44
Bill
Right.

00:09:34.34
Erica
And I used to obsess about things like that. You know, why doesn't he love me? Why did this happen? Why did that happen? And, you know, so struggling with abandonment and loss and all of these things. So I was still like this little, little fricking girl, you know, in my, in my twenties and thirties, I was still this, like, it was still a little girl, you know, trapped in that.

00:09:46.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:51.86
Mike
Right.

00:09:53.38
Bill
Right.

00:09:54.23
Erica
And so, yeah, I mean, if I do a drunkologue, let me know. You can interrupt me at any time. I won't get, you know, okay.

00:09:58.94
Bill
No, no, no, you're doing fine. You're doing fine.

00:10:00.95
Erica
So. ah So, yeah, so I was still this little girl just trapped in this, you know, the shell of a woman.

00:10:09.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:10:10.64
Erica
And when I was taken to the airport. I lived in Albuquerque, New Mexico at the time. I was taken to the airport and I was dropped off.

00:10:23.36
Erica
And I have a picture, just a picture me with my son. Sorry, I don't want to cry because I cry when I talk about him. But I have a picture of me with my son. And um I got on a plane. I don't remember anything about the plane. All I know is I was trashed. I got on the plane and I ended up in California. Somebody picked me up from the airport and took me to a rehab facility.

00:10:45.11
Erica
um Long story short, um it ended up being a Ron L. Hubbard. Scientology.

00:10:51.82
Mike
Oh, yes.

00:10:53.34
Erica
And my mom wasn't aware of that when she set it up and sent me there. And I did, I disappeared.

00:10:56.75
Mike
um

00:10:58.97
Erica
They would not tell anybody where I was.

00:11:00.58
Mike
Well, yeah, right.

00:11:01.78
Erica
Yeah. So.

00:11:03.26
Bill
Okay, pause pause real quick. explain Explain what that is for, I've heard, I think of, but I don't know what it is.

00:11:04.92
Erica
ah huh

00:11:08.86
Bill
So ah for other people also that are brain dead like me, explain what what it is.

00:11:11.13
Erica
I'm.

00:11:12.94
Bill
Mike seems to know.

00:11:14.19
Erica
I don't, I'm not actually, I just, I don't really follow it and I don't know much about it.

00:11:14.47
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:11:18.32
Erica
All I know is it's, you know, we don't practice it. And I, I'm not, I'm not one to say anything negative.

00:11:22.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:24.96
Erica
You can go, you know, on about, I'm sorry, I'm not, but it was not, it was not what my mom had thought.

00:11:26.21
Mike
yeah right

00:11:28.89
Bill
yeah

00:11:32.21
Erica
It looked pretty on paper.

00:11:33.83
Mike
okay

00:11:33.94
Erica
And so when she's in Akenost in austin Texas and I'm in California and she starts doing more research, she looks at it and she's like, huh,

00:11:34.23
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:11:42.74
Erica
This is not what we thought it was.

00:11:44.37
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm.

00:11:45.05
Erica
But when I got there, it was very um Friday the 13th-ish, like wooded cabins, lots of monster drinks. But it was one of those, like, they put me in a cabin.

00:11:57.05
Erica
They didn't do an intake. I was there, like, with four other people. Nobody came to check on me to find out, you know, to do any vitals or to do anything. um I was on a rickety bunk.

00:12:09.75
Erica
And I did wake up the next day and somebody finally came in. Oh, and they were offering out free massages. It was just very creepy.

00:12:16.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:16.41
Erica
um Like, but somebody came in the next day to do an intake.

00:12:18.38
Bill
Right.

00:12:20.80
Erica
And when I finally told them, you know, yeah I'm like at least a handle of vodka a day. And, you know, I was telling them how much I was drinking and they could physically they could see me physically.

00:12:27.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:31.48
Erica
You know, I was going through withdrawals at that time.

00:12:33.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:12:34.75
Erica
They decided to move me to off offsite to a detox house where it was monitored by a nurse and they would put me through medical detox.

00:12:42.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:42.90
Erica
Well, at this point, my parents are trying to get a hold of me and I'm not a allowed access to phones. You know, they don't allow me to have anything.

00:12:47.67
Mike
Right.

00:12:50.71
Erica
And and they would call and they wouldn't tell them where I was. They wouldn't, they, my mom's there, they wouldn't, they wouldn't tell them where I was. I wasn't allowed to talk to them. They weren't allowed to talk to me.

00:13:00.95
Erica
Um, and my mom was just getting, she's just, she's just, she's just freaking out. She, she stresses and she gets a lot of anxiety like I do. And this is her first, my brother's in in recovery too, but I was the Guinea pig. This was her first go around.

00:13:13.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:13:14.17
Erica
And, So, you know, she did. It's just, I don't know how many days it was. I don't recall, but I was at this house and they didn't, I, there was no, you know, they did finally do some blood work.

00:13:26.95
Erica
Um, I was sick, but they didn't do medication. They drink cranberry juice, do this.

00:13:31.97
Mike
Hmm.

00:13:32.51
Erica
Um, they did medically detox me because of course the risk of seizures and stuff, but there was no other medical care or anything that I can recall.

00:13:37.19
Mike
Right.

00:13:37.84
Bill
Right.

00:13:42.41
Erica
And, So what she did is she went online again and she looked at the site and she noticed a little house, a picture of a house. She zoomed in to the house and she saw cross streets.

00:13:56.73
Mike
Hmm.

00:13:58.17
Erica
So if you want to if you want somebody found, you asked my mother, she found the house.

00:14:01.46
Bill
ah ah

00:14:01.55
Mike
Sure. Right. Yeah.

00:14:04.92
Erica
My dad jumped on a plane. And flew to where I was. He showed up at the door, knocked, and he says, I want to see my daughter. And the first thing they said is, how did you find us?

00:14:16.45
Mike
ji chi c

00:14:18.30
Erica
And they're like, we can't. It's part of our protocol. You can't see her. And he's like, well, then. Because nobody knew. i mean, my mom usually can get updates. Everybody just wanted to know how I was.

00:14:27.61
Mike
sure

00:14:27.78
Erica
Nobody knew how I was doing.

00:14:28.28
Bill
right

00:14:29.22
Erica
And she was terrified.

00:14:30.62
Mike
well

00:14:31.29
Erica
um And I was. I was in a place, unfamiliar place. And she... Well, he and then he goes, OK, well, then I'm going to go get the cops and then I will come back. And they said, oh, oh, she's in the back room.

00:14:41.39
Mike
okay

00:14:42.77
Erica
You can go see her.

00:14:43.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:43.47
Bill
right

00:14:45.21
Erica
And I was I was sitting in the back room on the bed and I just started bawling and crying.

00:14:45.56
Bill
yeah

00:14:50.95
Erica
And he, you know, they said it's not safe to take me. He agreed to stay at a hotel close by. But then the next day with, you know, it's against protocol. They gave him all my medications and they said that I could leave.

00:15:04.77
Erica
They wanted us to leave. And so we hopped on a plane and we came back to Texas. And then I went to another program in Spicewood, Texas, outside of Austin, where I did that 30 day inpatient program.

00:15:15.94
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:17.50
Erica
And that after leaving that, that lasted about like three days, I think.

00:15:23.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:23.86
Erica
And then I was drinking again and little did I know how dark and

00:15:24.56
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:31.90
Erica
destructive, I didn't realize how much worse it would get in the and the next like six years.

00:15:37.77
Mike
Right.

00:15:38.47
Bill
Right.

00:15:38.58
Erica
And it it it was, it it did, it it it just got to a to a whole other level. Like I, you know, and I used to be like, you know, I wish I would have stopped then. Or I know here, I hear people saying, you know, I wish I would have gotten sober sooner, or I wish I would have done that.

00:15:50.68
Mike
Mm

00:15:53.30
Erica
And it's like, I used to beat myself up for that. And I'm like, but I tried to get sober sooner so much, a lot.

00:15:56.34
Mike
hmm.

00:16:01.17
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:16:01.85
Erica
And it it wasn't my time. I was not ready to face myself or or the feelings or the hard work that it takes to, you know, to recover.

00:16:10.64
Mike
All

00:16:16.06
Erica
I wasn't ready.

00:16:16.38
Mike
right.

00:16:17.30
Erica
And so, yeah, then, you know, fast forward, you know, those six years of just

00:16:17.35
Bill
Right.

00:16:24.47
Erica
i mean I mean, I don't try to forget what happened because I want to remember all the the that the insanity and the the mental health and the deterioration and the physical health.

00:16:28.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:36.46
Erica
But then, yeah, 39 years old.

00:16:36.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:39.38
Erica
It was also East. I was like had every excuse not to go. But it was another my husband and my husband and my mom got together again.

00:16:42.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:43.03
Bill
ah

00:16:46.87
Erica
And this one was found by a woman at Morgantown, Virginia, where my brother played baseball at. And so she had found it and it's, it was local and I was able to, I went to IOP.

00:17:02.46
Erica
So after, just, I agreed the night before. And then of course the morning of, I'm like, no, I'm not going to go.

00:17:07.87
Bill
Right.

00:17:08.16
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:17:09.53
Erica
And it was, and but I did.

00:17:10.07
Bill
okay

00:17:11.69
Erica
I'm like, but it was another one. Like, I'm just going to get everybody to shut up.

00:17:14.58
Mike
right

00:17:14.81
Bill
right

00:17:15.43
Erica
I'm going to go detox. I'm going to feel better. I'm going to do the, take the drugs and do whatever. And then I'm going leave and it's going to be the same shit. But something in that, And that room or that little house that I was at, it just clicked.

00:17:28.86
Erica
And i don't know what it was, but then I agreed to to continue on to IOP after detox.

00:17:36.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:37.14
Erica
And then from there, I went a full year aftercare.

00:17:40.41
Bill
Right.

00:17:40.70
Erica
And I, you know, i I attended meetings at the time and therapy and, and yeah, it just, It was just that I think that is what really did it for me is having that accountability because people have asked me, like, how did it work? And it's going to be different for everybody.

00:18:00.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:00.60
Erica
But it's one of those having that accountability at that most vulnerable time in my early sobriety and having, because like I said, I'm a people pleaser, even though I did some horrible shit, it's like, I'm like, it doesn't make sense, but that's what addiction does.

00:18:05.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:11.20
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

00:18:14.48
Erica
There's no like rational, rationality to it. It's just, it doesn't make sense. But then again, it's like, okay, I don't want to pee dirty or I don't want to, know, I don't want any, you know, I don't want to get kicked out of the program and,

00:18:27.05
Erica
So that having that to that, that part of that perfection of not wanting to mess up and then having people there along with me um that were in detox that did continue the program.

00:18:35.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:38.07
Erica
A lot of people didn't, which is heartbreaking, but a lot of people did really, really did, think, set me up for, for success and to be able to get my, you know, my bearings and go,

00:18:40.55
Bill
Right.

00:18:40.77
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:18:47.19
Mike
Well.

00:18:51.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:18:53.30
Bill
So and in a couple of things too, and like you had mentioned, we, we talk about it quite a bit and we've had, we've literally had that conversation Mike and I have on here about, you know, the, um, all these, that basically what I guess we could call bookmarks, you know, throughout our, our drinking time where it's like, well, what about that time?

00:19:00.44
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:19:10.23
Bill
And that would have been a decent time. And that could have been a good time, all these different things or, or these red flag times when it's like, well, I should have known then type of thing. But, I mean, Mike's the one always says that he talks about, you know, all those things.

00:19:17.83
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:19:21.76
Bill
Well, two things. The first thing you said, I think, Mike, was, you know, how scary of a thought that would be to, you know, dangerous to think back on that. And and what if what if you would have gotten sober then and maybe other people you would have be able to help or vice versa?

00:19:35.90
Bill
Am I getting that right?

00:19:36.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:36.70
Bill
I remember exactly what you said.

00:19:37.08
Mike
No, yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, ye and and, you know, like Erica said, you know, just wasn't ready. I mean, you know, I i mean, the first time, well, I went ah several times um trying to get sober, you know, and then, um yeah, you know, and like, so and then it was 10 years.

00:19:43.45
Bill
Right. Right.

00:19:53.77
Mike
It was like, well, this shit doesn't work. And, um you know, this is going to be my life.

00:19:56.28
Bill
ah

00:19:57.05
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:19:59.21
Mike
I'm going to drink myself to death. um Yeah, you know, and, but, like Bill was kind of alluding to the, you know, the those, that last 10 years for me, that last six years for you, whatever, um that has value now because we could use that to help other people. You know, those, the getting that low, we take that experience and we use it to to to help somebody else go, Hey man, look, yeah, I, you know, I got that bad too. Yeah. So they can, you know, you can help people. They could relate to you better. i think, you know, if I'd have hell, if I'd have gotten sober 10 years earlier. um Yeah, it was bad. Trust me, it was bad, but it wasn't as bad as it got. And maybe I wouldn't have that experience and I couldn't help as many people as I can help now.

00:20:49.39
Erica
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:20:50.07
Bill
Yeah. And it's, you know, the the thing of it is, is that that longevity too, is that I think when, and I can't speak for everyone, but we, we know plenty of people that, you know, that what whatever they got to that point, whether it was the, you know, that the first time or the 10th time or the hundredth time that they, that they were like, okay, this is it. and i'm here now um there there's a value to that where you know they're like okay i i not that i get it now but i i appreciate everything all this shit that i went through and and we're we're firm believers i always am you know it's like all the things that we go through and i'm not just talking about sobriety but

00:21:22.64
Bill
You know, things do happen. I don't, some i who knows? Why do things happen? You know, there's, is there a reason behind it?

00:21:27.03
Mike
Hmm.

00:21:28.28
Bill
Is there, you know, why does this person come into your life? Or why does this person leave your life? You know, why does this circumstance happen? I don't fucking know. But, you know, that sooner or later, as long as I keep, you know, keep looking forward and keep, you know, now following this, this path that I'm on and taking the advice of the people who've been there prior to me and who've learned all these things, usually it's going to work out.

00:21:49.43
Bill
I'm still going to deal with life. life can fucking suck every once in a while, you know, just cause we don't, you know, just cause we got some time under our belts, you know, you got nine years, we just celebrated, you know, 16 each for us.

00:21:51.11
Mike
Hmm.

00:21:51.16
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:21:52.90
Mike
Hmm.

00:21:59.86
Bill
It's a long time, all of it combined, you know, but, um, you know, how many years are we out there?

00:22:01.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:06.02
Bill
How many years did we mess up? Yeah, we got all this worth behind us, but, You know, it is, it's, we still got hopefully a number of years ahead of us and how, who can we help now, now that we know these things. And that's one of the biggest key things, like Mike said, is that that 10 years, that six years, however many years any one of us has, you know, we can draw from those, especially if we're sitting down with somebody one-on-one, or let's say if you're talking to somebody on Instagram, Erica, or somebody reaches out to you based on all the posts that you have because I'm sure people do, you know, you, and they got a question about whatever I've gone through this, this, and that you're like, well, okay, and I get it.

00:22:33.78
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:22:39.26
Bill
You know, and maybe you wouldn't have gotten it if you, if you would have got sober at, you know, at 29 or 25, I don't know, but you know, it's, it's all, it's all about, um, you know, it, it is all about the, the worth behind it, but the people pleasing thing.

00:22:39.54
Erica
Yeah.

00:22:51.66
Bill
And I thought that was interesting. I am too. Okay.

00:22:54.25
Mike
Mm. Mm.

00:22:54.43
Bill
Um,

00:22:57.14
Bill
and Mike, this he cracks me up.

00:22:58.25
Mike
Mm.

00:22:59.06
Bill
This happens all the time. like Listen to his reactions every once in a while, especially if I'm telling a story. You can tell when he really agrees with me or he's like, oh, fuck yeah. When I just said I'm a people pleaser, he's like, mm.

00:23:12.61
Bill
That's just nice way of saying, fuck yeah, you are. um

00:23:14.94
Mike
yep

00:23:15.58
Bill
Better than I used to be, but not whatever, whatever the it's not a perfect situation. But um I get to points in my in my life, though, when things happen to me, whether it's a you know a milestone of recovery, whether it's ah a light bulb that came on. I had a health issue back in October that opened up my eyes, and I decided I'm not fucking chasing people anymore.

00:23:36.17
Erica
Right.

00:23:36.48
Bill
I don't care who the fuck they are, whether it's a family member, it's a friend, it's a female, it's a good friend. If I'm if not not, I'm not around people who are going to put forth effort towards whatever this thing we have, the two of us have.

00:23:47.33
Bill
Mike and I have a wonderful relationship, but we put work into it. You know, I have we have wonderful relationship with our kids and our families. And all those sort of things and in friends, you know, but if if we just sat back and waited everyone for everyone to come to us, that's not fair.

00:24:01.48
Bill
You know, that's not what this what this whole life is supposed to be about.

00:24:02.18
Mike
Right.

00:24:03.10
Erica
right

00:24:04.64
Bill
And I i didn't cut any any wa anyone off, but there was, you know, those two, three individuals that I'm like, fuck them. I'm not I'm not reaching out to them anymore because I'm the one that always makes the effort. I'm fucking done doing it.

00:24:15.03
Bill
You know, I get too many goddamn things.

00:24:15.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:15.85
Erica
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:24:16.83
Bill
I don't want to be unhappy with it work anymore. I don't want to be unhappy with anything. I want to do what I want to do within reason, you know. But whatever it takes for us to get to those things, I think people pleasing goes the other direction, too.

00:24:28.57
Bill
I want to please I'm a people pleaser for myself, too, um sometimes unrealistically, you know, but for the most part, pretty good.

00:24:34.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:24:35.95
Bill
But, man, it's I tell you what, to your point where you were talking about, Erica, when you first got sober, not want to disappoint people. Um, I had my, I had my ex-wife, I had my kids, I had my family.

00:24:45.99
Bill
There was a lot of people that I didn't want to disappoint. I mean, yes, I wanted to do it for me. Um, but I'm like, man, I can't, I can't. And you know, now it's all the people it's Mike, it's all these people that I know that I've known sober for 16 years.

00:24:59.18
Bill
I got a lot of people that I could disappoint if I start drinking today, you know, and and I don't want to do that.

00:25:02.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:25:04.22
Erica
Yeah.

00:25:05.66
Bill
You know, I just don't want to fuck around with this shit anymore, you know?

00:25:08.68
Erica
Yeah. Yeah. I think because yeah it was one of those like back, you know, back before I got sober and I was in that really dark place. It's like, why can't I get sober for my son?

00:25:19.94
Erica
Why can't I get sober for my family or these people?

00:25:21.26
Bill
Right.

00:25:23.31
Erica
And it's in, and I don't think a lot of, I think a lot of people that aren't in in recovery or sober who have been to that, that point don't understand it, you know, just stop, just quit.

00:25:31.09
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:25:33.03
Erica
and it's like, it is not that easy.

00:25:33.69
Mike
Sure.

00:25:34.71
Erica
It's not a lack of love. It's not a lack of anything. Um, so I think when I hit that aha moment at detox, it kind of, because before you know, I did want to get sober. I did want to do these things. And I, I, I detoxed multiple times on my own and just tried and tried and tried, but it never stuck.

00:25:53.70
Mike
Right.

00:25:54.04
Erica
And so I think when I had that aha moment and I was able to kind of like pull it together, I did that for myself.

00:25:59.64
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:00.15
Erica
And i had I had to do it for myself because in the past it was not because a lack of love for my son or, you know, not wanting to live long enough to see him, you know, grow up.

00:26:00.33
Bill
Right.

00:26:10.39
Erica
it But it was something that just I wasn't ready for myself. And so when I finally was ready to do it for myself, then it all comes into play. It's like, OK, I'm doing this. But then I have all these other people that, yes, I love them.

00:26:23.34
Erica
And now that I'm strong, I'm not strong enough, but I'm going to be strong enough. I'm going to work on this. I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to be the you know uncomfortable. and you know sit with all of it. But now I have all these other people in my life that I've disappointed so much and that I have let down so much that I didn't even acknowledge.

00:26:32.87
Mike
Right.

00:26:36.85
Bill
Right.

00:26:36.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:39.29
Erica
like it didn't i mean I would get upset and I'd carry that shame and regret and it's like, what do I do when I have shame and regret?

00:26:43.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:44.97
Erica
Oh, I drink more because yeah, I you know i i fucking black out and then I wake up the next day and it's just like the same vicious cycle.

00:26:45.83
Mike
Get loaded. Yeah.

00:26:53.37
Erica
and so

00:26:53.40
Mike
Yep.

00:26:55.19
Erica
But then when I finally just hit that point, you know when enough is enough, Some people, I think, get to that point when it's just like, it's just and it's enough.

00:27:01.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:03.14
Erica
I can't do it anymore. Then then that's when, OK, I don't want to disappoint my my son, my husband. I don't want to disappoint the people at IOP and the doctors and nurses and every my therapist.

00:27:09.77
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:15.65
Erica
And it's like, okay, I'm there. I don't want disappoint them, but I'm doing it for me because I finally feel like I can do this. I finally feel that I can succeed and I'm not going to, you know, ruin it.

00:27:29.16
Erica
I'm not going to disappoint everybody again.

00:27:31.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:32.31
Bill
Right.

00:27:32.34
Mike
Yeah, I mean, for me, it comes down to, Big Book says, you know, basic the root of our troubles is selfishness and self-centeredness. And, I mean, that's, and we still are.

00:27:42.98
Mike
I still am. I'm still selfish and self-centered. And, and you know, we talk about doing it for ourselves. And, yes, I do. I'm selfish and I'm self-centered and I don't want to feel that shame and that remorse for me.

00:27:56.71
Mike
um You know, and it and it kind of, it spills out into everyone else.

00:27:57.21
Erica
um

00:28:00.79
Mike
And yes, I don't want to disappoint. But the reason I don't want to disappoint is I don't want to feel the shame and the remorse. So, you know, it I mean, it does, absolutely.

00:28:07.86
Erica
Yeah, yeah.

00:28:08.10
Bill
Right. hey

00:28:10.17
Erica
It goes both ways, yeah.

00:28:12.47
Mike
And I mean, you know, it's it's just flipping the things around and and yes, now we're we're sober, so we're not... medicating ourselves in whatever we're medicating ourselves with.

00:28:23.06
Mike
And um yeah, and and selfishness comes up. I'm doing this for myself because I don't want to feel like shit. The whole point of getting loaded is to feel good, right?

00:28:33.95
Mike
You know, I want to feel good all the time.

00:28:34.74
Erica
huh

00:28:37.03
Mike
And, you know, that was getting loaded for me. And I still want to feel good, but I want to want to actually feel good now. It is still selfish. I just had to flip it around and realize that, you know, the the other stuff wears off.

00:28:51.47
Mike
And yes, I have to continue to do this stuff that I do today to feel good. But, um you know, it it it really doesn't wear off. It's true, which is wonderful today.

00:29:01.09
Erica
Right.

00:29:02.95
Mike
So, yeah, you know, it it is still selfish. I don't want to disappoint because I don't want to deal with the consequences of disappointing people anymore.

00:29:10.97
Bill
ah

00:29:11.19
Erica
Yeah. You're really making me think now. man Is that what I'm doing? You know, you're making me making my wheels spin here.

00:29:14.58
Mike
ah

00:29:14.81
Bill
Well, you know... Well, here's what's funny. there was a because we mike Mike does a reading. When we don't have a guest, he does a reading from ah one of our meditation books at the beginning of each episode, and then we just talk about it. And then every once in a while, I'll pick out little excerpts from this those same books, and we'll have conversations about them. And this was probably a year ago, but um one of the readings said something along the lines. It's like, um you know, if I if i upset or if i if I did something wrong or wronged somebody today, I'll i'll think of ah five things I can do to make it up to them.

00:29:45.02
Bill
So I'm like, well, that's kind of an interesting thing. So I'm like, in my in my head, I'm like, five seems like a lot, but okay, let's let's go with that. So I bring this up and Mike has no idea ever what, you know, we don't we don't pre-plan what we're going to talk about.

00:29:56.46
Bill
And, you know, i just pick it off these sheets that I have and random. So I pose that question to him. like I'm like, okay, so today yeah yeah you fucked with somebody, you know, and Now you got to think of five ways to to make things right.

00:30:08.38
Bill
And he's like, he's like, I don't want to do that. He goes, got to, he goes, he goes, I want to figure out how not to fuck with somebody.

00:30:10.38
Mike
Yep.

00:30:10.78
Erica
uh-huh

00:30:13.95
Bill
Cause I don't want to, I don't want to think of five things.

00:30:14.22
Mike
yep

00:30:15.99
Bill
He goes, i don't, I don't want to apologize.

00:30:16.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:17.79
Bill
I want to think of five things. I'm like, that's fucking perfect. You know?

00:30:21.24
Mike
he think Yeah.

00:30:22.14
Bill
Because i don't, neither one of us, and I never thought about it that way, but neither one of us, and let that's exactly what made me think about it. He just said the consequences. We don't want to think, we don't want to deal with the consequences of trying to fix something we messed up, trying to grovel to somebody, you know, to make something up.

00:30:31.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:33.75
Mike
No.

00:30:38.89
Bill
We did all of that for years.

00:30:40.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:41.02
Bill
how How can I just not fuck with people?

00:30:43.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:43.90
Bill
And then I, not never, But then I rarely have to apologize.

00:30:46.01
Mike
Right.

00:30:47.70
Bill
But we still have the commitment that if, if we do something to upset somebody in inadvertently, you know, we're going to, we're going step up and we're going to, we're going to make it right. And we're going apologize.

00:30:57.74
Bill
But, but the hell with this fine goddamn things. Just don't do it in the first place.

00:31:00.78
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:31:03.26
Erica
Yeah. Yeah. True. Sometimes that's easier said than done, but I get it.

00:31:05.24
Bill
yeah Oh, it is.

00:31:06.90
Mike
Sure.

00:31:07.38
Bill
Oh yeah.

00:31:07.54
Erica
Yeah.

00:31:07.74
Bill
Yeah. though Yeah. Don't get me wrong. So yeah.

00:31:09.34
Mike
so it's yeah It's something to aspire to. you know its yeah but But the more you aspire, the better you get.

00:31:12.38
Erica
Yeah. Yeah.

00:31:13.21
Bill
Yeah.

00:31:13.75
Erica
yeah

00:31:16.30
Mike
and and you' lessen it you know That muscle gets stronger. you know and and yeah you know um i I don't fuck with people clearly like I used to. because But again, it it comes back to the selfish thing.

00:31:26.07
Bill
ah

00:31:29.38
Mike
i don't want to i don't want to apologize. i don't want to make it right. i just don't want to fuck it up in the first place. It's easier that way. I'm still lazy.

00:31:37.40
Bill
here

00:31:37.38
Mike
you know, I'm just, I'm using my laziness to my own advantage and it works out.

00:31:41.82
Erica
Yeah.

00:31:42.74
Mike
It's it's the advantage with the people around me too.

00:31:43.10
Bill
ah ah Every, every, everyone wins through my laziness these days.

00:31:48.02
Mike
Yeah. Yes, exactly.

00:31:49.43
Erica
Yeah, yeah i like that.

00:31:50.52
Bill
So quick question, Erica, and I, and I know you mentioned it when you said you were going to meetings stuff at that time.

00:31:52.26
Erica
huh

00:31:54.80
Bill
And I know from listening to the other, the other podcasts that in, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but at one point you did Alcoholics Anonymous, correct?

00:32:03.90
Erica
I did, yes.

00:32:04.82
Bill
Okay. And um I don't know if you've ever, whether you've listened to us or not, it really doesn't fucking matter. But we we were brought up and grown up and still follow the AA principles.

00:32:10.16
Mike
Nope.

00:32:14.14
Bill
We're not preaching or anything on here.

00:32:14.41
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:32:15.42
Bill
This is not an AA podcast um you know at all. But we still have all these things you know behind us and and all those sort of things. It's a way that we got sober, but we're... not only open to, um, ridiculously curious about how people do what they do, um, in other ways.

00:32:30.56
Bill
Okay. And we know a number of people that the same thing were introduced to it, then found their own path to it whatever. So just curious, um, how did that happen? So was just the IOP that put you into it and then you got into your own thing or just, if you don't mind, it'd be, I'm just curious.

00:32:44.13
Erica
Yeah, not at all. um Yeah, it was required. So as part of the program, they we had to attend a certain number of meetings a week, which at first it was easy because IOP, you know, I'm i'm there three days a week for x amount of hours and I've got these other people.

00:32:47.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:47.55
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:49.92
Mike
Right?

00:32:54.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:01.86
Erica
And we we kind of like, hey, you want to go to this meeting after or do you want to meet at this meeting before? So it was it was it was more comfortable for me.

00:33:07.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:07.69
Bill
Right.

00:33:09.94
Erica
It was okay, I have other people to to go to go with.

00:33:10.20
Mike
Sure.

00:33:13.87
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:14.74
Erica
um And then when i got into It was just one day a week and then and then a therapy session. But I was still required to go to these meetings.

00:33:22.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:24.21
Erica
And of course, when people aren't you know required to be around you all the time, you know three days a week, everybody has their own lives to get back to.

00:33:30.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:30.97
Erica
So you know they're not meeting as much.

00:33:31.12
Bill
Right.

00:33:32.89
Erica
And and me, i'm I'm not an antisocial person, but i'm not I don't run out. I used to be like to seek ah people's approval and relationships.

00:33:41.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:41.66
Erica
I'm not like that anymore.

00:33:43.28
Mike
Yep.

00:33:43.46
Erica
I'm i'm fine with my own my own company at this point.

00:33:45.18
Mike
Yep. yeah

00:33:47.24
Bill
Right.

00:33:47.93
Erica
And so I'd still kind of attend them. And then I'd have a therapy session. And I, you know, my therapist would be like, so, well, my my first therapist fired me.

00:33:58.46
Erica
He says, I can't work with you because i know you're not being honest with me.

00:33:58.74
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:34:03.06
Erica
Then I was like, middle finger. OK, that's fine. I don't like you anyways.

00:34:05.66
Mike
Right.

00:34:06.50
Erica
And then they send me to another one. And so I would tell her, you know, I've only been to this many and she, you know, oh, you need to do better and you need to do better. and it was it was very discouraging.

00:34:17.70
Erica
And then I remember one time I told her because I was being honest, I was trying to be honest.

00:34:18.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:22.26
Mike
Right.

00:34:22.55
Erica
And she goes, you know, if you don't go, you're going relapse.

00:34:22.66
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:34:26.20
Erica
And right then and there, i was like. I didn't want my my rebellion, like my, you know what I mean?

00:34:31.91
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

00:34:34.89
Bill
All All right.

00:34:35.34
Erica
Like that inside, like inside of me going, who the who the hell are you?

00:34:35.63
Mike
oh yeah

00:34:39.86
Mike
right

00:34:40.93
Erica
And I just kind of looked at her and did my thing. But then I started lying about going to meetings because I didn't need a signature.

00:34:49.61
Mike
is

00:34:51.14
Erica
It wasn't anything like that. So I started lying about going to meetings. And I kind of started... and don't want to say shutting down, but I just, yeah, i I just, I was just very turned off because I had gone to a few on my own.

00:35:01.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:04.65
Erica
i you know, I got all my coins. I, you know, I felt a sense of pride when I showed up for like my sixth month, my year, you know, I, I really liked that.

00:35:10.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:11.12
Bill
Yeah.

00:35:12.29
Erica
And the people were very nice. But a lot of the meetings, I just didn't always feel very comfortable. There weren't a lot of women in the, I lived in Albuquerque at the time and they were very,

00:35:19.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:26.10
Erica
yeah a lot of men wanted to sponsor me. So it was just, it wasn't a bit,

00:35:28.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:28.64
Bill
Yeah. Okay.

00:35:30.71
Mike
The old 13th step, eh?

00:35:32.21
Erica
yes, it was.

00:35:32.44
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:35:32.79
Bill
yeah yeah

00:35:33.85
Erica
And I was just kind of like, I didn't always feel very, very comfortable. There were a few people there that were very nice.

00:35:38.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:39.93
Erica
I'm not going to, you know, um and I know it it works well for some people.

00:35:40.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:35:44.81
Erica
And I, I, I, I would lie if I didn't say I didn't get anything out of attending the meetings and hearing people's stories.

00:35:45.21
Mike
Right.

00:35:49.34
Mike
Right.

00:35:50.57
Bill
Right.

00:35:50.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:35:53.23
Erica
And I have to say, it really did help me evolve from first going towards the end because I was bit of a twat when I first started going because I was very i was still like very i was very judgmental.

00:36:00.78
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:36:07.61
Mike
listen

00:36:07.90
Erica
i would I would see people and a guy would be like, oh, I i you know i i i drink a case of of beer on the weekends. And I'd be like,

00:36:16.88
Mike
yeah right

00:36:16.98
Erica
yeah know I had that, like, I'm like, yeah.

00:36:17.88
Bill
ah

00:36:20.19
Erica
And then, and then somebody would, you know, be on the other end and it would just be a completely heartbreaking story. And I'm like, oh, I'm not like that at all.

00:36:29.01
Bill
Right.

00:36:29.17
Erica
I was so trying to find the differences, whether I'm better than you, I'm worse than you, I'm not as bad as you.

00:36:31.96
Mike
Right. Right.

00:36:35.05
Erica
And I was just, and so it really opened my eyes though, going the, you know, through that time of like, okay, You know, I'm, I'm just, I'm just not, not a bad person, but I'm just like, okay, I need to really grow up.

00:36:36.51
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:36:49.07
Mike
Oh.

00:36:49.42
Erica
I'm still holding on to you know, all of that crap.

00:36:51.26
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:36:52.51
Erica
Cause I still didn't want to.

00:36:52.82
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:36:53.82
Erica
and i don't think I said, that said this, but I didn't, I wasn't open about my recovery until I was into like four years sober.

00:37:00.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:01.68
Bill
Right.

00:37:02.06
Erica
So I was very hush hush. I was already like about almost four years sober. When I started my Instagram account, I had no outside of when I left aftercare, I had no connection to ah recovery community.

00:37:15.19
Erica
um But yeah, so it it it really did open my eyes. And then I'm like, you know, and then today I'm even more so of like, you know, instead of trying to find the reasons why we're so different.

00:37:25.30
Erica
I mean, what there, it doesn't matter that, you know, I drank this way, you drank that way. I did this, you did that, you recover this way.

00:37:31.09
Mike
Right.

00:37:33.53
Erica
It's, we're all, we're all reaching for something is a life without a substance or alcohol, whatever it may be. um you know, finding, finding a life, finding joy in that life, you know, whatever it may be.

00:37:38.70
Mike
Right.

00:37:43.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:44.09
Erica
So during, during, um, IOP, I, that's when I started kind of my new, my new career. Cause I, I gave up work. I used to work at ARCA, which was a, you know, after I was done teaching, i worked at ARCA,

00:37:58.23
Erica
And it's for it was for individuals with disabilities. and I worked in group homes and I had to quit that job because I I my foot is fused now.

00:38:08.46
Erica
I broke my foot being drunk and stupid and I could not be able I wasn't able to carry or transport or do things that I needed to do. And so I started substitute teaching.

00:38:17.35
Bill
uh

00:38:19.35
Erica
I got fired from substitute teaching.

00:38:21.59
Bill
ah

00:38:21.88
Erica
who Who gets fired because I substitute teach special education classes? I got fired because I did not work enough and I canceled a lot.

00:38:29.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:30.74
Erica
But I liked the flexibility and no commitment.

00:38:33.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:34.33
Bill
yeah right

00:38:34.84
Erica
You know, um so I started, you know, the personal training, you know, educating for that while I was in IOP and then through aftercare.

00:38:45.72
Erica
I got a job right before. i don't remember when it was in April. it was actually before a soberversary. I finally got a job and I still, I mean, I didn't tell anybody I was, and I'm not going to say anything I did in my, you know, was, was what I recommend for people.

00:39:01.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:05.66
Erica
So this is what not to do. I, i was literally just going through the motions.

00:39:07.42
Mike
What?

00:39:12.58
Erica
i once I started working, I filled my days with, with work as much as I could.

00:39:13.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:19.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:20.03
Erica
I would take whatever, i mean, I was new. So I, you know, beggars can't be choosers at this point because, you know, I'm trying to build up clientele, but I would be like, okay, I'll take the 5am and I'll take the 8pm.

00:39:31.58
Bill
Right. Right.

00:39:31.90
Erica
You know, I'll do all this. So I was,

00:39:33.61
Mike
he

00:39:35.02
Erica
keeping myself busy. That's what I was doing. I don't think I was really, I wasn't recovering. Like I was not, um, you know, reaching out to people.

00:39:45.89
Erica
I wasn't attending any meetings. I wasn't doing anything like that. I mean, people of course knew that I was in recovery, my family, but outside of that, nobody did.

00:39:50.49
Mike
hey

00:39:53.42
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:39:55.64
Erica
And so I would just work as much as I could. And then I, you know, I'd go home in between, I'd eat, I'd go back. And so I was constantly, I had no downtime to even think about drinking.

00:40:06.30
Erica
And then building up a client base, I didn't want to disappoint them.

00:40:06.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:10.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:11.03
Bill
yeah right

00:40:11.06
Erica
You know, I did not want to leave them. They're paying. They're, you know, they they depend on me. um So that I got into this habit of just busy, busy, busy.

00:40:22.04
Erica
And I know it wasn't healthy for me, but it was, it was keeping me sober.

00:40:22.47
Mike
Right.

00:40:27.06
Erica
It was keeping me occupied.

00:40:29.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:29.66
Erica
And then and then COVID hit.

00:40:29.84
Bill
Right. Right.

00:40:32.79
Erica
So I was doing the work for a couple of years and then COVID hit and I was furloughed. i I freaked out. I was like, what am I going to do with my time? Like, what what am I? i've So what I did is I turned my garage into a gym and I created Facebook account.

00:40:50.20
Erica
And I started I started, I'd started workouts in the park, socially distance workouts, you know, all of these things to just keep myself busy because I still wasn't, I wasn't working on anything.

00:41:06.01
Erica
Like I wasn't really sitting with myself.

00:41:06.27
Bill
Right. Right.

00:41:07.93
Erica
I was sober, but I wasn't, I wasn't like, he wasn't healing.

00:41:12.07
Mike
Right.

00:41:12.18
Erica
Um, so, so I was furloughed and we ended up having, it lost 10 puppies.

00:41:12.30
Mike
Hmm.

00:41:18.42
Erica
It was, you know, that just kept us busy 24 seven. And so then I went back to work again and i I, don't share it with the people closest to me often, but I've shared it before. I'm you know talking to other people that I was, I was burned out.

00:41:34.14
Erica
I was, um, I was getting to that point of a drink really sounds really good right now. Like I really want to unwind.

00:41:41.72
Bill
Right.

00:41:43.20
Erica
Um, And that's about the time I think I started my sober Instagram because I'm like, I need to put out feelers. I need to see if there are other people out there.

00:41:54.24
Erica
Because it is funny because, you know, this was for me and I've heard other people talk.

00:41:54.63
Mike
Right. That we've all

00:41:58.80
Erica
I'm the only one who did this. You know, I think i had that mentality of like, I'm the only one who's who's ever hidden a bottle or who has ever added water.

00:42:00.51
Mike
done.

00:42:00.73
Bill
hey

00:42:06.55
Mike
Right.

00:42:08.08
Erica
You know, these stupid things that, you know, hear people talk about all the time.

00:42:08.69
Mike
Right.

00:42:11.26
Mike
that we've all done right

00:42:12.63
Erica
Yes, I'm not special.

00:42:12.76
Bill
ah

00:42:15.19
Mike
see

00:42:15.26
Erica
ah you know i've you know i've you know i've been everybody a lot of people have been there.

00:42:20.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:20.31
Erica
I actually started out nameless, faceless, um you know, very just to see what happened. And I was like, wow, there are a lot of people out there and they're following me.

00:42:27.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:31.89
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:42:32.43
Erica
And I had rules like I wouldn't I didn't want to follow people and I wouldn't look at this is funny.

00:42:32.93
Bill
Right.

00:42:36.87
Erica
I am that kind of person like I wouldn't didn't want to look at people's stories because I didn't want them to know I was looking at. that it just like, that's just, it isn't that weird, but that's just me and my insecurities.

00:42:43.38
Mike
Mm.

00:42:46.11
Mike
Aha. since instance aha

00:42:49.11
Erica
Like, what if they don't want me looking? I'm like, they wouldn't be posting their shit on public Instagram if they didn't want me looking.

00:42:54.46
Mike
right.

00:42:55.35
Erica
So that's just me.

00:42:55.51
Bill
right

00:42:56.55
Erica
That's that inner, I have that inner talk, that kind of, you know, he chats with my addiction a lot or she chats with my addiction a lot that, you know, inner asshole kind of, they have like their conversations, but so uh,

00:43:02.36
Mike
Mm.

00:43:05.09
Bill
Right.

00:43:05.17
Mike
Mm.

00:43:11.96
Erica
i I did, I needed to connect with something outside of me because I was, yes, it is.

00:43:14.40
Mike
Yep. Mm. Where have I heard that before?

00:43:18.04
Bill
hey

00:43:18.84
Erica
It is. i needed something. Cause you know, I'm like, just like, just like going into a program. I'm like, I'm the one who wants to get drunk, but I'm the one who wants to get sober.

00:43:30.08
Erica
So I I'm like, I'm me versus me on all of this. I need something outside of myself. And that was at first my program and doing, you know, the IOP and the aftercare.

00:43:35.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:35.99
Bill
Right.

00:43:40.20
Erica
And then, and then it was, okay, I'm just going to throw myself into busyness and run myself ragged until it was getting to a point of, I was getting resentful.

00:43:40.57
Mike
Right.

00:43:49.22
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that doesn't work.

00:43:50.23
Erica
And yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't work.

00:43:51.09
Mike
Right.

00:43:51.54
Bill
Right.

00:43:52.26
Mike
Right.

00:43:52.73
Erica
And that's what I'm saying.

00:43:53.24
Bill
hey

00:43:53.85
Erica
Don't do this. I had years of just like, you know, trying to figure it out. And then, then the sober Instagram and then, and then changes. And there were things that changed too that, know,

00:44:04.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:05.37
Erica
Um, certain things had changed and I had an opportunity to move back to Austin, which is where my family is.

00:44:11.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:11.86
Erica
And my husband's like, well, we've been here in Albuquerque. His family's there.

00:44:16.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:16.09
Erica
Like we've been here for X amount of years. It's time. And I'm like, okay, I found a house. We're like out. Because it's like i needed i needed it a different, I needed to get out of the house where it all happened.

00:44:21.44
Bill
Ha ha ha ha.

00:44:25.86
Erica
I needed to get back to just, I don't know, closer to my family. And I just needed a change. and and And that's what I did.

00:44:34.51
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:36.54
Erica
So when I moved, You know, it was one of those of like, okay, I'm starting to create a community here. I'm back in Austin where I wanted to be. i mean, I have things here too, because this is, you know,

00:44:48.95
Erica
where college and all that stuff, you know, happened, you know, was going on too, but it wasn't the darkest times.

00:44:52.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah.

00:44:55.07
Erica
It was actually, sometimes it's harder because I live fairly close to Lake Travis. And so I hear the boats on the water and I remember going to Devil's Cove and, you know, tying up and do all that.

00:45:01.13
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:45:02.46
Bill
hey

00:45:04.32
Mike
<unk>

00:45:06.51
Erica
So I get that kind of feeling. But then again, it's like, that's just a fleeting feeling. There's no, you know, there's no, there's no future in that. but But yeah, I think for me, it's one of, you know, and you asked me a small question, I'm going to make it really long, that finding community and finding people um that I can, you know, and it's not only posting and having people comment and and which which feels good. And it's great that there are so many people that you can relate to, you know, situations.

00:45:39.70
Erica
But it's those also those people that I have. that have trusted me enough that I have like for, i don't know, a couple of years, um, every year for the last four years, I've met, um, this was April. We meet in April. Um, we go to Arizona every April, somebody I met on sober Instagram. I have another one that we've met a couple of times. We're meeting again in September in San Diego that make it on anybody local, but making, um,

00:46:08.09
Erica
making these connections to where if I was really in a dark place or if I really needed someone to turn to that they would, you know, I, I don't doubt that they would not, you know, not saying they'd hop on a plane, but they would be there to listen and to support me.

00:46:15.86
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:46:24.17
Bill
Right.

00:46:28.09
Erica
Whether I say I relapse, say something happened that they would be there and they would understand. And I have, I have that support, which I did not have in the past.

00:46:33.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:36.85
Erica
And I was just running on fumes.

00:46:37.34
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:46:39.80
Erica
um So yeah, that for me really is, you know, is huge. And then outside of the fact that I'm, you know, work, you know, really big on just working out and music and movement is like my medicine. And those are things that really do help me.

00:46:55.70
Erica
um whether it's dancing or the gym or just throwing on something and singing at the top of my lungs, that really just does, that really does help center and balance me.

00:47:02.43
Bill
Right. Right.

00:47:06.42
Erica
But yeah, some people ask, I'm like, just, you know, and it's hard to put yourself out there and to open yourself up to to meeting people because it is a vulnerability, um you know, just like coming on here and and talking.

00:47:14.22
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:47:19.74
Erica
it but it but it But it's something that just, it really does make, It makes me it makes me feel better because it it help if it helps people, great.

00:47:30.35
Erica
That's amazing. And that's why I do it. But it also helps me too.

00:47:33.71
Mike
right

00:47:34.21
Erica
It helps solidify my my own recovery.

00:47:34.55
Bill
Exactly.

00:47:37.01
Erica
And like, yeah, I'm on the right path. I'm doing something that matters.

00:47:41.69
Bill
Exactly. So that seems, what do you think, Mike? Seems like a good place to take a quick break and we'll we'll come back to it.

00:47:44.46
Mike
Yep.

00:47:47.00
Bill
But Mike, lead us in.

00:47:48.65
Mike
All right. Well, we will be back with more of finding the solution with other people and outside of ourselves right after these words from our sponsor.

00:48:08.18
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Yeah. And it's, and we try to find a comfortable place, Erica, to to take that, take that split and take that break. And I mean, I'm just kind of eating up all the things you were saying.

00:48:19.00
Bill
I mean, both of us are agreeing with you and I'm like, where's it?

00:48:19.01
Mike
he Right.

00:48:21.64
Bill
You know, we always look at that. Where's the best place to do this? But I have a couple of quick comments that I want to get back into a couple of things, obviously, that you were talking about. So, um Yeah, I mean, you were basically white knuckling it for a number of years.

00:48:31.96
Mike
if

00:48:32.18
Bill
um you know And you know I think that all of us, just to a certain extent at certain times, regardless what our background is, you know hip have done that.

00:48:32.22
Erica
huh Yeah.

00:48:39.58
Bill
you know um But there was it the interesting part, the kind of part that I was like you know kind of shaking my head and going, yeah, I mean, when you said that you know kind of looking for somebody and you know or, oh my God, there's all these other people out here and things like that.

00:48:51.50
Bill
um COVID was weird for for a lot of people.

00:48:53.99
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:48:54.50
Bill
I know a lot of people thrived in it. We know people who got sober you know in COVID, which ah blows my mind and kind of blew both of our minds because it's like, wow, you know again, you don't have that in-person community type of thing.

00:49:00.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:06.02
Bill
But then also people that are like, you know got a big old case of the fuck it's during COVID and then didn't know what to do with themselves.

00:49:10.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:12.29
Bill
But the the cool part was is that At the point, and and we came up, we were in our 10th year. yeah Yeah, we were in our 10th year because we were going to try to get together with all these.

00:49:19.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:49:22.21
Bill
There's like 10 different guys that are still sober from the Keating Center that we went through.

00:49:22.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:26.32
Bill
We're going to try to organize this whole big get together in Cleveland that year. And then COVID fucked that all up. um You know, but we had enough enough time under our belts, you know, in enough of this foundation and these years of these things that we were doing where it wasn't that hard at all.

00:49:30.76
Mike
Yup.

00:49:41.36
Bill
We you know, we do meetings. So all the meetings went online.

00:49:43.50
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:49:43.96
Bill
we had that we had that community.

00:49:44.36
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:49:46.00
Bill
But as things started to go back out of COVID it is when I got that void, you know, and I'm like, okay, there's no more online meetings. The one meeting that I was going to in Wisconsin when I lived there, long story that doesn't even matter. But the couple of things that I saw online through this whole COVID process, I really didn't want to go back to to the meeting anymore. Just people got weird. You know, it's supposed to be.

00:50:08.84
Bill
meetings are supposed to be a safe place and not have to be influenced by outside influences and blah, blah, blah, especially, yek especially Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:50:13.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:14.23
Erica
Yeah.

00:50:15.76
Bill
In this group of people, just to, long story short, they did that. And I'm like, I don't, I don't want to be involved in that shit, you know? So um that's when we started talking about this, you know, what we're doing now.

00:50:22.91
Erica
Yeah.

00:50:28.48
Bill
I started listening the podcast. That was my thing. I'd listened to it on the way home from work. I had a good 30 to 40 minutes in the car listening to podcasts. And then it was Thanksgiving of 2021. It would be, yeah.

00:50:40.98
Bill
We were here at my sister's house and Mike and I were standing outside and I'm like, tell him all about this podcast, whatever. It was just random. I'm like, we could do that. Right. And he's like, do what? I'm like, I don't know. Talk about your shit in the microphones.

00:50:51.42
Bill
I'm like, we,

00:50:51.43
Mike
Yeah, sure.

00:50:52.34
Bill
We could do that, right?

00:50:52.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:53.18
Bill
He's like, I don't know. oh He goes, I guess so.

00:50:54.71
Mike
Yeah. sure

00:50:55.96
Bill
So we procrastinated from Thanksgiving until February, like ah like good good alcoholics that we are, and then just started doing it.

00:50:56.05
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:51:02.60
Bill
So so this, we chose Friday nights because that's when we used to do home group together. Mike and I used to go to a meeting every Friday night together. you know so this was like our meeting and we were just going to talk with ourselves and then now we've gotten to meet just i mean just a ton of people you know this is 222 episodes we've had mike and i have had great conversations i've learned things about him he's learned things about me which was crazy because we had been around each other for you know 11 plus years at the time that we had started this but then you know meeting people like you and different stories and different mindsets And so we have this whole new goddamn community.

00:51:16.21
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:51:16.69
Mike
yeah

00:51:24.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

00:51:28.38
Mike
right

00:51:36.60
Bill
And that's when I got it on Instagram.

00:51:37.03
Erica
Right.

00:51:39.18
Bill
And quite honestly, Erica, same thing. I went on there, not under sober, not mature. I went under some other name for the same reason. I'm like, I want to get around other people, you know, other sober people.

00:51:46.96
Mike
a

00:51:50.01
Bill
and, you know, just doing all this stuff back and forth. And then the podcast started, we chose the name and then I'm like, well, I guess I'm going to switch that name into this. And that's how this whole sober, not mature account started, you know, but I was fucking blown away at the number of, like and I think you were alluding to that.

00:52:06.65
Bill
The number of, I mean, we went to meetings in Cleveland where there were, could be 200 people. Okay. At a meeting, you know, or 250 or a hundred and whatever the case is, a lot of goddamn drunks in one room.

00:52:11.78
Mike
Right.

00:52:17.25
Bill
And then, you know, I get on Instagram.

00:52:17.36
Mike
Right.

00:52:19.05
Bill
I'm like, Oh, fucking all these goddamn drug addicts and alcoholics come from. I'm like, they're fucking everywhere, you know?

00:52:23.99
Mike
he

00:52:25.91
Erica
Yeah.

00:52:25.95
Bill
And at that point, you know, I'm, I'm 12 years sober, 11, almost 12 years sober. And I'm like a child. I'm like, Oh my God. But it's so it's a whole nother community. I've met a lot of people. You're one. Um, I've met, I've met a handful of people.

00:52:40.21
Bill
I've met a couple of people in person, three people. i mean, maybe four, no four.

00:52:44.70
Erica
um

00:52:46.14
Bill
Cause surely, surely was another one that we, that we met. So I think I've met four people that, you know, I've met, I've known on Instagram, other people I'm sure we'll meet over, over the years or the timeframe, but God, these conversations that we had are just mind blowing.

00:52:48.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:59.84
Bill
So when did you make the decision, you know, to, to be from the nameless faceless to um i don't know, did you go right into sober for the health of it or how did that work?

00:53:09.88
Erica
No, I was first, I was like, you know, trying to cover it all. was like recovery, rebirth, resilience. I mean, I have, and I'm, and I'm, and being a teacher, I'm like, i like alliteration too. So I wanted like, you know, all ours or all this.

00:53:20.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:22.50
Erica
And then I did a, um, it was, it was like a, I forgot keeping fit, staying sober or something like that.

00:53:30.52
Bill
Right. Right.

00:53:31.18
Erica
Cause it, you know, I was like, you know, into fitness and I used to post a lot more fitness, fitness stuff. um I quit kind of posting a lot after I got frozen shoulder. But um but then, yeah, when I did sober for the health of it, I don't know, I was trying to come up with something that was more broad, because when I think of my sobriety.

00:53:49.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:53.18
Erica
i'm not I'm not just doing it to because i you know I'm not drinking. it has nothing you know I mean, that's a huge part of it.

00:53:57.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:59.38
Mike
Sure.

00:53:59.61
Erica
But I'm looking at all the health, like my well-being, like my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual health. And I'm sober for all of them, for the health of it.

00:54:05.26
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:54:07.33
Erica
Because without my sobriety, I would not have my mental health.

00:54:07.76
Bill
right

00:54:10.73
Erica
I would not have my physical health.

00:54:12.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:13.25
Erica
It's like the body. It's like everything is connected. So, I mean, that's kind of where, you know, that came from. But it wasn't, like i think I jumped it. Like, I remember the first picture I took that had me in it.

00:54:26.29
Erica
It was just a picture of my my chest because it wasn't that way.

00:54:29.98
Bill
but

00:54:30.95
Erica
It wasn't like that. But I had a shirt on that said fearless.

00:54:32.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:35.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:36.06
Erica
And that was the first time that I had just finished working out and it was like a tank top. Or something and it had like fearless on it. And then, you know, i always put out feelers like, okay, you know, how do people react to this or, you know, whatever.

00:54:50.46
Erica
And it's like, I cared way too much. I still do sometimes like, you know, I i put something on there really vulnerable and then afterwards I just want to go throw up.

00:54:52.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. earth

00:54:59.86
Erica
But, you know, I don't because it's like, OK, you know, that one person or that, you know, that those few people are like, wow, that really, you know, hit home or whatever.

00:55:08.32
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:08.67
Erica
But, yeah, I mean, it it it it probably was ah ah I mean, it felt like forever, but I think it was a quick kind of transition into kind of like, OK, I'm going to put myself out there more because I've had such a positive, positive, you know, like start that I'm just going to kind of keep going with it.

00:55:08.76
Mike
Inspired.

00:55:09.31
Bill
Right.

00:55:09.42
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:55:29.02
Erica
Um, and then, yeah, I started, you know, i didn't want my face. I, you know, i never put, I, like I, i never my name was never in it, but I'd put like Erica on top and, you know, just little things like that.

00:55:38.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:38.71
Bill
Right.

00:55:40.26
Erica
And then I was terrified other people would find me like my mom or my husband or somebody would find me.

00:55:43.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:43.45
Bill
Right.

00:55:43.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:55:46.62
Erica
My brother found me once and I didn't care, you know, I didn't care, but then he couldn't find me again. And he's like, he asked my mom, he goes, is Erica okay? Okay.

00:55:55.77
Bill
hey

00:55:56.34
Erica
And he's like, I found her Instagram and I can't find it anymore.

00:56:00.09
Bill
yeah

00:56:00.22
Erica
And, and she was blocked and she asked me and I'm like, oh, I changed my name. And it's when I changed to a different name. So he couldn't find the other, other one that, you know, but he, that's the only thing he's never on any type of social media. So I think that's the only time he've probably got on there.

00:56:16.06
Erica
But, but yeah, it just, cause it was such a, that's what I want people to know. It it was such a positive experience. Yeah. There are those snake, those people that slither into your DMs or they slither into your comments and they're like, you know, you know, can you send me pictures of your feet or can you do this or can you do that?

00:56:26.88
Mike
Hmm.

00:56:29.11
Bill
Right. Right.

00:56:33.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:56:34.35
Erica
Or, or they're completely, completely fake and they're trying to prey on, you know, people in the recovery community.

00:56:36.45
Bill
Right. right

00:56:42.31
Erica
It is that, but I think with over time you start seeing like who's genuine and who's real and who's authentic and not, you know, just full of crap. Cause I have, I've had to remove people from my life that from social media, because they were toxic.

00:56:57.91
Erica
I'm sure you've had to too, you know, you remove people, but yeah, it was, it was a pretty quick, you know, pretty, I think, i think it worked, moved pretty quick, and but I didn't really get very like vulnerable until over a year.

00:56:59.54
Bill
Oh, yeah. Right.

00:57:07.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:13.59
Erica
Like when I was really, I was keeping it very kind of vanilla and generic.

00:57:17.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:17.88
Erica
It wasn't like I was posting, you know, my blackout pictures or, you know, talking about certain things.

00:57:21.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. susanson

00:57:25.08
Erica
Cause it was just, it it just took time. Like with anything, I think it's like a healing process.

00:57:27.88
Mike
Huh? Right. right

00:57:29.54
Erica
And it's like, it's kind of like my healing process of like opening up and processing things, even though i'm processing it with however many people my post reaches. Um,

00:57:41.08
Erica
But putting it out there and it's like my my writing and my captions are kind of like my journaling and just kind of and then when people interact, it's like, OK.

00:57:47.39
Bill
Right.

00:57:52.34
Erica
Then I you know, i then, you know, sometimes I think more about it or I can help someone process theirs or so it's just, you know, it's just this, you know, cumulative thing for me.

00:58:03.82
Mike
Hmm.

00:58:03.85
Bill
Well, you know what's funny is when when you sort we're talking about get you know being able to eyeball people, I mean, that's happened, I know, and and Mike and I, for both of us, has happened in in real life and on social media.

00:58:14.31
Bill
He's not really on Instagram much. He's more on Facebook than than Instagram, but it it is pretty easy, especially with, you know, the –

00:58:16.32
Mike
Hmm.

00:58:22.23
Bill
Every once in a while, because, I mean, you see the shit we post, Erica, which is me. I say we, you know, he gets he gets drawn into it just because his face is not all this fucking garbage.

00:58:27.19
Mike
Hmm.

00:58:29.59
Mike
he

00:58:30.31
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:58:30.63
Bill
But but it's it's me. I'm the one doing all of it. You know, i I've never hid behind that. But every once in a while, you know, I get these comments. I'm like, I thought this was a sober profile. I'm like, well, I thought it was a joke, too.

00:58:41.04
Bill
You know, and then I I'll comment on something and then somebody will come back.

00:58:41.85
Erica
Yeah.

00:58:45.02
Bill
And then finally, I just I I delete I delete them and I block them. And I'm done.

00:58:50.09
Erica
Mm-hmm.

00:58:50.69
Bill
i don't give anyone. I'll give everyone one one opportunity. But it's my fault for commenting. If somebody says something negative, I'll usually laugh, you know, put a laughing emoji and be done with it.

00:59:01.13
Bill
If somebody keeps pushing, I just I do. I fucking block them. I'm done, you know.

00:59:04.54
Erica
Yeah.

00:59:04.89
Bill
Um, because I don't, well, two things. I don't have time. I do. I got, everyone's got a life. I thought that I've got a busy, busy life. I mean, I've got adult kids. i don't have to deal with all these sorts of things.

00:59:16.24
Bill
I'm not married. So I don't have these day-to-day things, but surprisingly enough, what, yeah, what will we do when we get sober? Right, Mike?

00:59:22.24
Mike
Exactly.

00:59:23.22
Bill
I mean, surprisingly enough, I'm pretty goddamn busy throughout the day, you know, and so I don't have time to fuck with people. And if I if I choose to fuck with people, it's my own fault. And I don't want to be that guy either.

00:59:33.58
Bill
You know, so that's the other thing.

00:59:34.15
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:59:35.06
Bill
um But what's amazing is like you were just talking about the vulnerability thing. So when we started the the Instagram stuff, I was really, you want to talk about vanilla.

00:59:45.56
Bill
I just, I was just tiptoeing and stuff. I didn't know what to post, you know, i had never posted anything. I still wasn't open. As far as my name, I never used my name online up until I'm maybe coming up on three years ago now, I think.

00:59:59.47
Mike
Yep.

00:59:59.90
Bill
Right, Mike? Does that sound right?

01:00:01.13
Mike
Yes, it does.

01:00:02.36
Bill
Yeah. So, you know, um I was 13 years sober before I used my my full name online. And um I mean, that's when I was starting. I was going to try to lead into coaching a little bit. That didn't work. And that I'm glad it didn't because I got other things I want to do. But then I wrote the the travel book and stuff like that. I wanted to get that out there. And then I'm like, you know what, finally, fuck it. You know, I mean, I'm just I'm done.

01:00:24.01
Bill
I'm done hiding behind this. I'm not I was never ashamed, but I just wasn't sure from a business standpoint. I don't regret not being completely open because certain things I've done, people might look to me a little weird. Who knows? Maybe I'm still over exaggerating my head, but it never hurt me. But I don't know if it would help me either.

01:00:42.62
Bill
um But then I'm like, fuck it, I'm all over the place. you know

01:00:46.20
Erica
Yeah.

01:00:46.26
Bill
And then on here, when we started having these conversations, to begin with, even though we know people may have listened, we're putting it out there, it's on Spotify, it's everywhere. They're fucking everywhere. you know Even though we know that people could listen, it was like we were might it was just Mike and I having conversations. And even though we had really deep conversations, to this point, there's never been anything that we've had to delete, never been anything we've had to edit. Right, Mike?

01:01:13.24
Mike
Right.

01:01:13.27
Bill
Am I right? Okay.

01:01:14.17
Mike
Yep.

01:01:14.34
Bill
um There's been a couple of things where like, yeah, I'm not going to talk about that, you know, but not something that I asked him or he asked me. If I think it's a sensitive subject, I don't bring it up. You know, did something i I'm not going to pull it, try to pull us something out of him.

01:01:24.92
Mike
Right.

01:01:27.11
Bill
If he brings it up, I'm like, you know i wasn't going to ask, but yeah, let's, let's talk about that or or vice versa. You know, so we've been really open and vulnerable on here. Probably the most vulnerable is when our mom died.

01:01:37.51
Bill
We had that open conversation, which was healing.

01:01:39.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:39.83
Bill
And from what we were told by other people, helpful, you know, because we were able to have that conversation about, you know, death and and how do we deal with it? How do we stay sober? And and ah how do we process this shit?

01:01:51.02
Bill
We did it openly and in front of, of you know, microphones for two and a half weeks, you know, and it was great, you know, but the the posting part of it, I still, i mean, I just,

01:01:55.25
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:02:02.62
Bill
The best reactions we get, the most activity we get on our page, the morning reading that I post every day, that gets good eyeballs and views and insights and all that sort of stuff, which makes me happy because that's important to me and I i put it out there and I think it might be important to other people, which clearly it turns out to be.

01:02:19.30
Bill
Or when we post about dicks or vaginas or vibrators or dildos, you know, those are the things that we get all the reactions on. And I'm like, then I repost some nice, I'll post some nice recovery thing and nobody responds.

01:02:31.10
Bill
And I'm like, and not that I'm not comments, but you get like no, no activity on it. And I'm like, ah, fuck it.

01:02:36.30
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:02:37.27
Bill
Well, let's throw another vibrator up there. Then you get, then you get, you get fucking 400, you know, 400 likes to it.

01:02:39.06
Erica
Mm-hmm. Okay.

01:02:42.84
Bill
People are sharing it all over the goddamn place. I'm like, and here's the funny part. 60 over 60% of our Instagram audience is female.

01:02:52.84
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:02:53.65
Erica
Uh-huh.

01:02:54.18
Bill
Whereas 60% of this audience is male. It's literally completely flipped on most episodes. Sometimes it'll even up, especially if we have a female guest, depending on how it's shared, which we'll talk about at the end of the episode.

01:03:07.30
Bill
But we have a male-focused audience on here, which i I get it, maybe. But I don't understand.

01:03:14.36
Erica
Yeah.

01:03:15.61
Bill
Again, you see the shit that we post on Instagram. We get more females that follow us and whatever. So, I mean, it is what it is.

01:03:21.64
Erica
Well, just like that post you did the other day. and I'm like, when ladies don't tell.

01:03:24.06
Bill
Which one?

01:03:25.45
Erica
Ladies don't tell.

01:03:25.75
Bill
oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:03:26.53
Erica
Yeah. You know, because we're secretly, you know.

01:03:29.78
Bill
Yeah. The dirty mindedness. Yeah.

01:03:31.35
Erica
Yes. Ladies don't tell.

01:03:31.92
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:03:33.21
Bill
Yeah. And I know the answer to it, but I was just like, that was another one of those ones.

01:03:33.98
Erica
uma

01:03:36.73
Erica
Yeah.

01:03:38.04
Bill
I'm like, there's certain posts that I'm like, I know this one's going to get some activity.

01:03:41.70
Erica
Mm hmm.

01:03:41.80
Bill
You know, so especially if our, know, I don't pay attention to our numbers as much as I used to, or I don't care about them as much as I used to begin with. But every once in a while, I'm like, yeah, we could use some activity, you know, because then if we get people drawn in with that, sometimes people take a look around and then it's a it's a bleeding effect into the podcast and everything else.

01:04:00.22
Erica
Right.

01:04:00.59
Bill
It it helps everything, you know. But so when you started, again, posting, opening up and doing all these different things, did you have a I mean, it's wrong way to put it or maybe it isn't. Did you have a plan as far as what you wanted to post and how and what you're I don't know what you wanted to do or was it just kind of like, I'm just going to be me and do whatever I want on here.

01:04:22.94
Erica
Pretty much.

01:04:24.02
Bill
Okay.

01:04:24.09
Erica
um

01:04:24.29
Bill
Okay.

01:04:24.95
Erica
Yeah, I didn't, you know, I had no, i still don't. And I used to try to post every single day. I thought that's, I was like trying to like beat the algorithm, you know, you try to like time a day and post every day and all the views. And so I was just trying to come up with stuff every day. And sometimes they were just quotes. Sometimes it was like, oh, it's easy. Oh, it's transformation Tuesday or, you know, something along those lines.

01:04:49.62
Erica
And now I still, I still post pretty often, but now I'm just like, it's if something kind of like, if I, if I hear something or if I see something or not just, I don't post just to post, even though what I would post is something I, you know, I believed in or that, you know, that, you know, maybe happened in the past, but I had no, no rhyme or reason.

01:05:12.22
Erica
Um, but I did want to, I did have kind of rules of, okay, I'm posting a picture of myself today.

01:05:12.81
Bill
Right.

01:05:20.06
Erica
I don't want to post too many. So I'm going wait a few days before I post, I'm going to post quotes or post this or post this because I don't want my face on there too much.

01:05:29.76
Bill
OK. Right.

01:05:30.07
Erica
is and it It was just, see, I have these weird, you know, just like I had rules for myself when I was, you know, trying to you know, trying to work out drunk. You know, it was one of those.

01:05:38.52
Bill
Right.

01:05:39.15
Erica
I had rules. Or when I was detoxing myself and trying to go back to the gym, I had rules.

01:05:40.54
Bill
right

01:05:45.13
Bill
Right.

01:05:45.27
Erica
You know, but it was like, yeah, i have that I have set rules, but I have no plan. I just, you know, and sometimes something, a conversation I have with someone or something I see someone post might spark my own thoughts of like, wow, what if I did this or how like my, my, you know, get my, you know, my mind going.

01:06:02.83
Erica
Um, but yeah, it's just, just whatever happens happens.

01:06:06.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:06:07.96
Erica
That's just life.

01:06:08.09
Mike
Well, yeah, it's, it hit yeah, right.

01:06:09.12
Erica
Yeah.

01:06:10.32
Mike
Hate to break it to you. It's going to happen anyway. Right. I mean, that's, I'm just sitting here thinking, i mean, it's, that's, that's great. Yeah. I have rules, but I have no plan. That's, that's fucking recovery right there.

01:06:22.81
Erica
Did I just contradict myself?

01:06:23.40
Mike
Yes. Yeah.

01:06:24.04
Erica
I have rules, but no plan.

01:06:24.01
Mike
Yeah. yeah

01:06:25.69
Bill
No,

01:06:25.91
Erica
So I do have rules, but I don't know.

01:06:27.36
Mike
yes

01:06:28.41
Erica
i just have to follow them, but it doesn't mean i don't know how I'm goingnna get to there.

01:06:28.55
Mike
yeah

01:06:31.61
Erica
I don't know how I'm going there.

01:06:31.63
Mike
Well, yeah, it's exactly right.

01:06:32.65
Erica
Yeah.

01:06:33.84
Mike
It's, well, we can't control the outcome, right? That's that's the whole point. right I have these rules. I'm going to continue to follow these rules. The outcome, I don't know what it's going to be, but I do have faith that it's going to be okay, whatever the fuck it is.

01:06:47.86
Mike
Yeah, that's that's that's basically, I hate to break, that's recovery.

01:06:47.94
Erica
huh

01:06:51.82
Mike
That's it.

01:06:51.98
Erica
Yeah.

01:06:52.80
Mike
That's it.

01:06:52.98
Erica
Yeah.

01:06:53.15
Mike
I have rules, but no plan. I like that.

01:06:55.10
Erica
Yeah. Yeah.

01:06:56.15
Bill
Yeah, it it it wasn't it wasn't a contradictory thing at all. I mean, I didn't even pick up on it because I'm like, it's just yeah, of course, it's ah of course. I mean, why wouldn't it? It just so it just sounded normal to me.

01:07:04.34
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:05.51
Bill
And, you know, the the thing of it is, if it weren't for this podcast, I wouldn't have such a I've got a structure of how I post and what I posted when.

01:07:05.66
Erica
yeah

01:07:14.23
Bill
um to a certain extent. And it's usually around like breaks I have at work. So my my structure is more between a Monday through Friday. um Saturday and Sunday, I backed off on posting a lot because especially since I started going on trails and doing hiking things and traveling or whatever, Because I'm like, you know what?

01:07:28.55
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:07:30.69
Bill
Fuck it. This is if if I'm out, if I'm out in the middle of a trail, two things, I can't I can't post something out in the middle of nowhere. And if I'm trying to upload a ah podcast video clip or audio clip, I'm sitting there for 15 minutes while it loads up on, you know, weak Wi-Fi.

01:07:45.34
Bill
I'm like, I'm not going to do that. And then finally, I figured out I'm like, well, fuck everyone. They can they can deal with their own lives for a couple of minutes. What is why do they need to hear Mike and I talk at this particular time on a goddamn Saturday?

01:07:51.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:56.78
Bill
They don't, you know, but

01:07:57.09
Mike
Right.

01:07:57.31
Erica
Yeah. Well, and doesn't it take away from what you're doing? Like if you are on a trail and you are like experiencing nature and doing stuff, it's like, yeah, I don't need to to scroll.

01:08:01.56
Bill
You mean for, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

01:08:08.73
Erica
i don't need to post.

01:08:09.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:09.44
Bill
Right. Yep. And I, and that's the thing that Mike and I talk about that, that I don't, when I go on, when I started to do it, and again, the same thing, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't my plan and it wasn't a rule that I wasn't going to listen to anything or music or podcasts or anything.

01:08:25.83
Bill
Cause I do, I listen to music and podcasts and audio books and while I'm driving and doing everything else. But if I'm, if I'm out on a, on a trail or something anywhere um it's me and that's it.

01:08:36.64
Bill
You know, I don't, I don't listen to i don't listen to anything.

01:08:37.25
Mike
Mmm. Mmm.

01:08:40.60
Bill
I don't, I i basically, ah I'll think it's a good thinking time, but I don't think about weird shit. I might have, there could be, life could be fucking, you know, just dumping on me at this time of my life, whatever's going on.

01:08:53.55
Bill
And I'm just getting shit on day after day after day, at least in my mind, right?

01:08:53.72
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:08:57.61
Bill
But when I'm out there, it's like all that stuff's gone.

01:08:57.66
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:08:59.71
Bill
I'm thinking about just good things. And I hear birds and i you know um i don't want to get eaten by a bear. So I'm watching you know so I don't get eaten by a bear or anything like that. Then I'm watching trees and I'm listening to water. And that's that's what I do.

01:09:10.83
Bill
And I think, but I don't think about heavy things. you know And I don't want to listen to music.

01:09:13.85
Erica
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:09:15.39
Bill
I don't want to listen to any of that shit. I just want to be. Um, but yeah, during the week, it's just, if I, but if I, if I get busy doing something and I can't post something, um, I don't, but I look at it, I've got a responsibility to our podcast to post these certain things.

01:09:32.73
Bill
And, but it, it doesn't take that much of my time. It's really not, it's really not that big of a deal. I've got it down to a structure where it's, again, it takes me a couple of minutes and that's it, you know? More so that when we we first started, I was very active on Instagram and it just got to be too goddamn much. And I recognize that thankfully. And then my job got busy, so I couldn't do a lot of things.

01:09:52.59
Bill
But social media is it's a necessary evil in a lot of ways for you know doing things like this, because. How else do you get it out there? I mean, granted, we grow organically and that's our deal and and all that sort of things.

01:10:06.53
Bill
But unfortunately, we still need to social media, Facebook and Instagram.

01:10:10.90
Erica
Yeah.

01:10:11.66
Bill
There's still the two best places with the exception of people going out there and and telling other people. And unfortunately, the two best places for us to to showcase what we do, you know, and if we want to try to get this in front of other people and people have a short attention span, you know, so it's, it's a need, but it doesn't have to be backbreaking, taking all the time out of my life process either, you know?

01:10:21.25
Erica
Yeah,

01:10:35.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:35.96
Erica
that's true. I mean, social media is an excellent tool.

01:10:39.81
Bill
Right.

01:10:40.28
Erica
But yeah, it just, it can be all consuming.

01:10:44.41
Bill
Yeah, yeah, it can be. And it's ah again, you know, what but the I try to pull out, you know, I mean, some of the positives to it. and I I scroll, scroll, scroll. And, you know, people comment. They send me shit. I get I get things in in DMs all the time. You know, people are sending me, you know, individual pictures and reels and all this different stuff. And, you know, it's like one of those things I'm looking at, like, fuck me. I just double tap and go on, you know, or sometimes I'll throw a laughing emoji on it. And it was funny that this somebody sent me a reel the other day. And I you know popped in there and I've got all my notifications off on Instagram. So I mean, I don't see anything until I go back in there. So I go back in whatever it was, a few hours later. And the the person had commented after I liked it, like, oh, you know were you hoping too that it went a little bit... Or no, I was hoping that went a little bit longer so it went into more of whatever. And I'm just like, I'm like, ha ha. I'm like, I didn't even watch the goddamn thing. you know I don't know what it was.

01:11:34.01
Bill
you know i just i don't have the fuck i don't have the fucking time you know now if my daughter sends me something different story because i know that you know that that's somebody who's actually doing something because it usually is very funny and very appropriate you know for whatever it is but um i mean i don't have time you know but that'd be my it's my own fault if i sit there and and and i if it's going to be all consuming it's my own goddamn fault you know um we have to have i know a lot of people that don't necessarily have the controls on it but I guess that's the only plan that I have is i i don't spend that much time on there.

01:11:37.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:40.44
Erica
h

01:11:50.23
Erica
Yeah.

01:11:57.05
Erica
Mm-hmm. Yep.

01:12:06.25
Bill
I just ah i just pop in and out, do what I got to do, and you know just get on with shit. Right.

01:12:10.89
Erica
Yeah, yeah, I feel you. I'm a lot. I'm on there a lot less now just for my own. My own my own mental health, because sometimes I can start scrolling and then and I don't only look at and it's, you know, sober because there's a lot more out there, but I'll start, you know, watching dog rescues.

01:12:18.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:18.44
Bill
Right.

01:12:26.81
Erica
And then I start watching like, you know.

01:12:27.74
Bill
ah

01:12:30.36
Erica
Dog this and dog this. And then finally I'm like crying and I'm like, you know what? I just need to, you know, cause I'm a, I'm a dog person.

01:12:36.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:37.88
Erica
So I just need to, just to to remove myself a little bit because I need a breather, but.

01:12:38.26
Bill
Right.

01:12:43.96
Bill
Yeah. But it's, I mean, you know, like, like Facebook is a, I don't spend a lot of time on Facebook anymore. I do virtually nothing on our sober, not mature Facebook page because whatever we do on Instagram, you know, gets cross posted there.

01:12:56.16
Bill
I, I keep an eye on it every day just to see if anyone commented, just to kind of see what that is. Michael posts things every once in a while in our, our, on our, um podcast, know, the Sober Not Mature Facebook page, on my personal Facebook page, very, very little.

01:13:09.08
Bill
It's usually shit about my grandson, if anything, or, you know, maybe a Happy Mother's Day thing or whatever. But I mean, very, very, I'm on that very little. But, you know, just again, if it weren't there weren't for this podcast, and there's nothing wrong with it.

01:13:21.38
Bill
I mean, The podcast doesn't force me to go on Instagram, but it's ah it's a key reason behind it. And I don't mind doing it because I like what we do here and I'm proud of what we do here. So getting it out in front of people and then now fucking AI, I get, it's so much goddamn, it's so much fun for me to develop all these pictures now.

01:13:34.63
Erica
Oh God.

01:13:38.37
Bill
So I just take, you know, pictures of us. I'm like, do this and does some crazy shit with us. And I'm like, that's fucking cool.

01:13:45.02
Erica
I'm like, oh my God, Bill, they're ripped. It's like, look at this AI, I'm like.

01:13:48.15
Bill
Yeah.

01:13:48.50
Mike
Right.

01:13:49.75
Bill
I don't, Well, I know every every once in a while I look at it, it's got me like with fucking tattoos and big arms. And I'm like, I literally I told I every single time to take the tattoos off of me because I have nothing against tattoos.

01:14:03.28
Bill
But I think if I I don't have them, so I don't deserve to be in a picture that has them. I haven't earned the right to have some fucking AI picture with tattoos.

01:14:12.41
Erica
Yeah.

01:14:12.53
Bill
And the one they had us, the same thing, it was like from behind, I've i've got us, like as we're, it's for the awards thing, and I had us walking down this road, and it had me like really fucking big and bulked up.

01:14:23.07
Bill
And I put it into eight i put it back in there. I'm like, okay, listen, the guy on the left, I'm like, you need to make him skinnier. I'm like, he's just not that big. you know and it's still it's still kind of big i'm like i'm not gonna have a fuck with it too much but um but yeah i mean i looked at i looked at my arms every once in a while like jesus christ man i've never had arms like that you know and i'm like whatever i mean when you try to because the image gets is perfect then i'll see one thing like that i'm like you try to have it make one little adjustment it everything else up not always but i mean one time out of ten it'll do that So sometimes I just, I just fucking leave it.

01:14:30.70
Mike
Hehehehehe.

01:14:50.32
Erica
The whole thing's wrong. Yeah. Yeah.

01:14:57.11
Bill
But, um, it's been, it's been a lot of, it's been a lot of fun, you know, with doing that sort of thing.

01:15:00.23
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:15:01.07
Bill
So, um, Albuquerque, how did you guys end up with Albuquerque? I spent a week there and I did the whole Breaking Bad tour. I mean, I was only there for a week and gu I got the experience, like a little bit, you know, parts of it, but you said your husband's family was, is there or, okay.

01:15:14.36
Erica
Yeah. Yeah. We met in Austin and my husband's family had a big lumber yard construction business.

01:15:17.88
Bill
Okay.

01:15:22.23
Erica
And so we moved out.

01:15:22.78
Bill
Oh,

01:15:24.43
Erica
Well, we met in Austin, moved to Palm Springs, got married day after we got back or the day after we got back from our honeymoon, he was fired. And then we came back to Austin for a little bit.

01:15:37.59
Erica
And then he got, they wanted him to open up a trust plant in Albuquerque. So that's what took us there for,

01:15:41.85
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:15:44.31
Erica
for multiple years. And, uh, and yeah, I mean, a i Albuquerque is, you know, the weather's great. I'm, I'm not, I don't miss it, but, uh, but yeah, then when I had the, like I said, when I had the opportunity to come back to Austin with my family and he was, he was fine with that, then I was like, okay, cool.

01:15:56.54
Bill
Right.

01:16:07.36
Erica
We're gone. I mean, I came out here, found, well, my mom found the house cause I wasn't here.

01:16:08.34
Bill
Right.

01:16:11.51
Erica
So she did a lot of how, like I'd look,

01:16:12.54
Bill
ah

01:16:14.76
Mike
She's good at finding things, isn't she?

01:16:14.83
Erica
I'd look, you know, she is, she is, she, you she found the house.

01:16:16.63
Bill
yeah

01:16:19.47
Erica
Um, and I'm like, yeah, i like it. And like, it it gets me out of Albuquerque. Sure. So, and so we moved.

01:16:25.30
Bill
Right.

01:16:27.28
Erica
Um, and yeah, it's just, it's al Austin is definitely different than it was when I lived here years and years ago, but I, I, you know, I forgot how fucking humid it is and how many mosquitoes there are.

01:16:38.20
Bill
Right.

01:16:38.20
Mike
philosophical

01:16:39.51
Bill
Well, And, you know, Albuquerque, like i said, I'd never been there, but I was going out to, it was last year in January, was, end result was I was going out to Phoenix, my daughter and son-in-law, my grandson were going out there to see her sister and we were going to meet out there. So it was like a stopping point on the way out and I'd never been there before. So two things, I didn't realize the elevation because I mean, I was only there a week and i had like, I have so minor sinus issues.

01:17:04.19
Bill
So, I mean, I like had a mild headache the entire time because I mean, whatever it is, it's like 5,000 feet or whatever elevation. which Yeah.

01:17:10.62
Erica
it Yeah, depending on where you are, if you're north or, yeah, depending on.

01:17:16.94
Bill
I don't i mean from i felt like I wasn't in the i wasn't in the middle like I don't know. It'd be hard for me to pinpoint me. I was this part of the city. i was I was south of the highway.

01:17:26.96
Bill
That much I know. When I would walk out the front door, I could look over and see the fucking monstrous mountains off to the right.

01:17:34.78
Erica
The Sandias.

01:17:35.70
Bill
There you go. Yeah.

01:17:36.41
Erica
Yeah.

01:17:37.24
Bill
And I, um I just, ah all of that was like when I drove in just fucking beautiful. I mean, I was just like beyond, beyond that.

01:17:42.04
Erica
eleven

01:17:44.17
Bill
Then I did the whole Breaking Bad thing and ended out in the desert for that thing. That was ridiculous. I do want to go back to New Mexico at some point. I was, I was mind blown just by the beauty, but then um I've, I've been down in like the Houston area, Texas.

01:17:51.74
Erica
Yeah.

01:17:59.07
Bill
Mike's been all over the goddamn place. Cause you've been Mike through Austin, but never actually spent any time there yet.

01:18:00.91
Mike
hmm. Right.

01:18:03.45
Mike
right

01:18:03.55
Bill
Correct.

01:18:04.35
Erica
Right.

01:18:04.47
Bill
Okay. And then, you know, now with the, with the awards thing, we're to be there.

01:18:07.32
Erica
right

01:18:07.79
Bill
you know, which is the other, the other kind of cool thing I've wanted to go to Austin for years. When, when I first moved back to Wisconsin from Cleveland, which was 2013 within the first year or so, I think I was with that company there.

01:18:22.27
Bill
Um, one of our supervisors or managers, I can't remember her position, but her son lived in Austin. So we were, I was in Madison, Wisconsin at the time, very liberal kind of a music town, the Capitol, the whole bit.

01:18:33.59
Bill
And she was telling me that her son lived in Austin. She's like, Austin is a lot like Madison. Same type of thing. Liberal and music town and capital and blah, blah. So, I mean, I've wanted to visit there for years. And then this whole awards thing came up.

01:18:44.87
Bill
So, yeah, I mean, we're all going to get me, Mike and our sister. We already got the Airbnb booked out there. So, but yeah, I mean, it's the it's the end goddamn August, you know, and um what, 100 degrees or.

01:18:55.29
Mike
if he

01:18:55.86
Erica
Yeah, you're gonna you're yeah, you yeah. Oh, I'm sorry.

01:18:58.74
Mike
he

01:18:59.51
Erica
Mm hmm.

01:19:00.31
Bill
No, you know what? it It is what it is. Because heres here's the other thing, too, is that when what I travel and i I, again, whether or not you pay attention to the things I post, I mean, I travel places, usually the places I go, it's based around someplace I want to go to a hiking trip, you know.

01:19:15.27
Bill
Very rarely do I do something like we're doing here. We're going for an event that I'd like to go see something outside of it during the time we're there. Um, you know, but then I started looking around, I'm like, like, it's going to be ungodly, you know?

01:19:25.91
Erica
Yeah.

01:19:25.92
Bill
And I'm like, the only, the only way that I think that I could go on any type of hiking trail is probably just sitting, you know, sit like across the street from whatever park I want to go into when it's dark out. As soon as it's light and I can go in, you know, be there at whatever time the sun.

01:19:39.08
Erica
Well, can go to Mount Bunnell. Mount Bunnell, can go up there. You can, well, the Zilker Park, but it's going to be hot. You've got Barton Springs. That'll be right there.

01:19:47.74
Bill
Okay.

01:19:47.74
Erica
Because you're probably going to be downtown area, I would assume.

01:19:47.93
Bill
Okay.

01:19:51.70
Bill
No, no, no, no.

01:19:52.25
Erica
No.

01:19:52.58
Bill
We, um, we got a place about 40 minutes outside of town just because from, from the cost of it, if the town is, um, hang on one second.

01:19:57.53
Erica
Oh, okay.

01:20:03.25
Bill
i

01:20:03.48
Erica
Is it Buda, Kyle, San Marcos, or is it the other direction?

01:20:07.35
Bill
Sure.

01:20:07.50
Mike
Hmm.

01:20:07.89
Bill
Yeah.

01:20:08.22
Mike
e

01:20:08.33
Bill
It's the, uh, Jarrell

01:20:11.26
Erica
Oh, I'm not Jarrell. I'm probably driven through.

01:20:13.08
Bill
J-E-R-R-E-L-L, which is, um, I think it's north of Austin.

01:20:14.26
Erica
Okay.

01:20:18.65
Erica
Okay. So they yeah, the opposite direction i of where I was saying. Okay.

01:20:22.81
Bill
yeah the it's yeah well Yeah, come on, Eric. It's the other way. I mean, well, you should know that. It's the other way.

01:20:26.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:27.51
Erica
Oh, I'm directionally challenged.

01:20:27.74
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:20:28.99
Erica
So don't even try to get, I just know I went, I know sat South off I-35 because I went to school at Texas State University. So I just know which, you know, that's all.

01:20:35.73
Bill
Okay.

01:20:37.31
Erica
But otherwise i have, no, is that? Yeah, I think that is. Don't even, yeah, just. um

01:20:41.75
Bill
Yeah, I think it's in it again. I didn't I didn't map it out right now, but I think it's north of the city.

01:20:43.85
Erica
Mm-hmm. Okay.

01:20:45.55
Bill
But um the whole point was, is that I mean, i I booked it for two weeks. I'm going to go out there the weekend before and stay the week after, because that whole thing that I was talking to you about when I'd asked you for you do of a realtor, you know, I'm going to try to maybe scout, you know, rentals and stuff while we're out there, too.

01:20:56.37
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:21:00.01
Bill
That was one of the reasons of going out there early. But on top of that, then, you know, Mike and our sister are flying out. So then, like Mike had said, he goes, i mean, I i was going to drive out there one way or the other.

01:21:10.51
Bill
But, you know, obviously I'll have to pick them up for the airport and stuff like that. So be there and get settled. And, yeah, we just found ah find a three-bedroom house out there. And it seems nice, you know.

01:21:20.59
Bill
But I don't know. um We're clearly looking forward to it just in general of going. But, yeah, just mind-blowing that we were even – even

01:21:30.54
Bill
nominated, right, Mike?

01:21:31.58
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:21:32.44
Bill
I mean, again, for for this shit, you know, that the shit that we're doing here, you know?

01:21:32.54
Erica
And you, yeah. Well, it's because you're doing shit that people want to hear. You're, you're talking about your like lived experiences. You're not coming on here and preaching and, and telling people what they should do and shouldn't do.

01:21:47.03
Erica
you're just telling your experiences and you're having, except when I said, don't do what I did, but you're, and then you have people on here that have, you know, been there, done that.

01:21:49.21
Bill
but

01:21:52.22
Bill
Right?

01:21:55.98
Erica
And, and so you, I mean, you're providing people with, with something and it's, and it's, and and and it's fun too.

01:22:03.89
Bill
Right.

01:22:03.96
Erica
You know, it's like, you know, you just having a conversation.

01:22:08.38
Bill
Well, and that and that's the the funniest part, and you know is that literally when we started this, and it's part of our opening where it says, ah say it, Mike, you know when we started this thing, what's you know, you're lying, right?

01:22:19.71
Bill
Right.

01:22:19.72
Mike
All right, shoot our wad into the wind and see what happens.

01:22:22.58
Bill
ah

01:22:23.34
Erica
Okay.

01:22:24.44
Bill
that's That's literally, he said that on an episode. I cut that clip. It's in the beginning of our episode. We run this little thing for a couple of minutes all with little clips, which are literally from first, don't know, probably 10 or 12 episodes that we did. um But I mean, that's the point.

01:22:39.73
Bill
we didn't You talk about not having a plan, you know we didn't but we didn't have any rules either. you know um we didn't We didn't know what.

01:22:44.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:47.00
Bill
we didn't know what The only thing that we knew that we weren't going to do was we weren't going to... um I cannot even know. where I mean, we were just going to have a conversation. I mean, we're just doing it for us.

01:22:57.98
Bill
We weren't going to, we weren't really doing it. If there was a rule, there was the only thing that was just, we're not, we're not doing this for anyone for any other purpose other than Mike and I to sit down, shoot the shit and kind of basically have a meeting, you know, throughout the ah every Friday, that was it, you know?

01:23:10.22
Erica
Yeah.

01:23:14.30
Bill
And then it turned into, we did, we did nothing. It was like, I don't know, two, three months in and, somebody's like uh i read it they're like oh yeah you should bank like three to five episodes so you really grab your audience right away we didn't know that they're like you should never go over you know people's attention spans which i think is bullshit but they said people's attention spans are bad so you shouldn't go over 25 minutes so we started going an hour as soon as we read that we're like everyone let's go an hour you know and i think we did it accidentally with a guest once and i can't remember who it was and then we're like fine fuck it we're gonna do an hour

01:23:27.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:40.07
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:23:42.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:45.34
Bill
And then I don't even remember how we got to going this long, but it was the same thing.

01:23:48.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:49.74
Bill
We're just like, you know, at that point we're like, well, fuck it. We're just going to be an hour. Doesn't seem, especially when we have a guest, depending on sometimes it takes a good half hour or so for somebody to really loosen up. And then by the time somebody really gets loose and you're just having a good open conversation, you're at that hour and you'd be like, okay, Hey, thanks for coming. Have a great day.

01:24:09.91
Erica
Right. And there's so like, they're probably like, I still need to process this shit now.

01:24:13.37
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

01:24:13.75
Erica
You know?

01:24:13.85
Bill
Right. yeah So, I mean, I don't know. It just, it it it blew our minds because, you know, it's a whoever whoever nominated, we still don't even know how we get nominated. just, you know, by peers, supposedly.

01:24:25.03
Erica
Mm hmm.

01:24:25.17
Bill
And then, you know, obviously the voting and stuff, you know, we won't, the voting's they all done as of April 11th. But the only thing that we know is based on what we've read on the internet is apparently we've had, we've flooded everyone, which we knew, you know, without with all the voting sort of thing.

01:24:38.94
Bill
But, um you know, I just got, i got incessant with posting. Yeah. I know you voted. Thank you. You said that the one time because I said something nice to you and you're like, you don't have butter me up.

01:24:50.15
Bill
I already voted for you guys.

01:24:51.39
Mike
Mm.

01:24:51.54
Erica
i did like I did like a fitness thing and you said something like, I don't want to fight you or I i don't know what you said.

01:24:51.95
Bill
I'm like,

01:24:56.09
Bill
oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:24:56.74
Erica
And I'm like, okay, you don't I've already voted for you, man. You don't need to.

01:25:00.82
Bill
Yeah, she had she had this shit that's what what yeah you had this picture of you working out. i'm like I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ. i'm like I mean, she's not like huge, you know but i mean just you can tell very toned up.

01:25:08.47
Mike
e

01:25:10.53
Bill
I'm like, I'm like i'm never going to fuck with you, man. I'll get my ass kicked. you know That sort of thing. Just fucking with her, joke joking around. That's when she's like, yeah, butter me up. I already voted for you. I'm like, I wasn't trying to do that.

01:25:21.15
Bill
But anyhow. But I don't know.

01:25:22.69
Erica
That's when I said I'll create another count I'll vote it again. I'll vote again.

01:25:26.93
Bill
Yeah, I don't know. And it's just, it's ah again, you know, for, for what we were, and we were talking about it when we got nominated a couple of times since it's just that, you know, we, we accidentally have, have done whatever, whatever we've done is all been accidental.

01:25:40.08
Bill
You know, we, we don't, we don't do anything that anyone else tells us we should do. We usually go the other direction because we're like, no, we want to do this. We don't want to do that. Everyone does video now. And it looks so fucking stupid.

01:25:50.83
Bill
People don't know how to edit.

01:25:50.89
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:25:52.27
Bill
They don't edit well. You can see the interruptions. It's annoying to listen to and watch. You know, so Mike was the one that kind of... We looked at one time we did a video episode, and I wasn't necessarily trying to push it into it, but the other studio that we had, we could have done, like, live call-ins, had that more people, multiple people on.

01:26:10.78
Bill
But we had to be... You had to be live on YouTube, and it had to be video. You know, then we could have, like, almost, like, taken call-ins and stuff like that. So we tried it once, and video was so fucking uncomfortable.

01:26:20.86
Bill
Right, Mike? I mean, it was just...

01:26:21.69
Mike
Yeah, I hated it.

01:26:23.35
Bill
Oh, and would it the thing of it is, and watch on Instagram, and I'm not sure if you already have, Erica, but a lot of these people, mean, some people do very, very few. And I'm talking about very, very few do video right.

01:26:35.45
Bill
It's usually the the big names like the Dax Shepherds and all these other people like that that do video. And they're not, but they're not looking at the camera.

01:26:40.29
Erica
Yeah.

01:26:41.97
Bill
They're just having, people are videotaping them in the background.

01:26:43.79
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:26:44.70
Bill
It looks like television, you know, because they get the money to do it.

01:26:48.21
Erica
Right.

01:26:48.25
Bill
Um, but most people just sit like it's a bad fucking work meeting and just stare into the screen and they'll, they'll just keep nodding their head. And I'm like, Jesus Christ.

01:26:57.78
Erica
It's like a COVID zoom call.

01:26:58.23
Bill
oh That's, that's exactly what it is.

01:27:00.04
Erica
Yeah.

01:27:01.07
Bill
I'm on, I'm on at least at a minimum two, maybe three zoom calls a week at work. And that's, that's what it reminds me of when I see somebody doing these podcasts, but then they, they try to edit them.

01:27:08.76
Erica
yeah

01:27:10.51
Bill
So you're seeing the faces jet back and forth and jolt in the, uh, it's just bad. So I don't know, whatever it is.

01:27:16.34
Erica
Yeah, no, i I didn't know a flight because I'm like, okay, I know they're only audio, but am I going to be able to see them or I'm just going to be talking to my screen?

01:27:23.35
Mike
Yo.

01:27:23.74
Erica
So I'm just talking to my screen.

01:27:23.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:24.50
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:26.82
Mike
you

01:27:27.16
Bill
Well, and and we only had, we can do that.

01:27:27.70
Erica
but is

01:27:28.88
Bill
We could do that. So, um, no, I'm, I mean, the, there's three settings we have to do video to have just visual like that or, or not at all.

01:27:30.23
Erica
No, it's fine, but I was just curious.

01:27:37.31
Bill
So we go down to the dot at all. So we just want, we just want the clean video. We don't want anything else fucking with the, or the clean audio. We just don't want anything. So we bare bones that, so we get the best audio.

01:27:47.79
Bill
you know So there's nothing else nothing else that'll fuck with it. you know um you know but we had we I think we've had one or two people that it said, we can't even look at each other. you know keeppp good People get so used to it, it's like a crutch.

01:27:59.32
Bill
it's like just have a fucking When you're on the telephone, you know you don't sit there and look at people unless you do FaceTime.

01:27:59.62
Erica
Right.

01:28:04.90
Erica
Yeah.

01:28:05.26
Bill
So I don't know. It just kind of is what it is.

01:28:06.52
Erica
Well, think a lot of people like me personally, like i look at pay people's, probably I read way too much into people's gestures and their facial cues. And i think because that's part of communicating is just being able to look at someone and be like, okay.

01:28:16.09
Bill
Right.

01:28:20.72
Erica
you know But I've noticed too, half the time when some people are doing it, they're just staring at themselves.

01:28:25.39
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:28:26.13
Bill
Right. Well, and I and I think people, too, also because it just sounds like it when i'm listening to some of these podcasts is that people people listen like if Mike and I were were on video, like I would I would be looking at him like waiting for him to to pause.

01:28:39.68
Bill
So I didn't jump jump over his conversation. But we got we got lucky.

01:28:42.52
Erica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:28:43.54
Bill
I mean, I mean, it's it's it's rare. I think we've talked about it that he and I very, very rarely will talk over each other. Rarely. You know, because we've under, we've just been around each other enough and we understand, you know, when a thing is done, if we start to jump in, it's, I mean, rare, right, Mike?

01:29:00.41
Bill
I mean, I mean, really, really, really rare.

01:29:00.93
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:29:03.89
Bill
And, you know, usually when, and I do it on purpose, I'll, it, When I'm, when I'm done, a lot of times I'm like, well, that's what you said, right, Mike, or something like that. Or I'll lead in and he'll do the same thing, you know, but every, every once in a while he gets me because he'll do whatever his end cue is.

01:29:11.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:18.18
Bill
And I, I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but I know it when I hear it, I'll hear it I'll start to talk and then he'll jump in and say something like Jesus Christ, dude, come on now.

01:29:20.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:24.99
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:29:26.65
Bill
But to anyhow, so what did we, Erica, what did we miss? Anything else that that you want to wrap up on that you want to talk to people about? I don't think, well, two things. I don't think you said your, mean, I've got it in the description. that's That's fine. But you haven't said your Instagram thing yet. Anything else you want people to know about you? Anything else you want to talk about, say, leave people with? It's, you know, your choice.

01:29:50.48
Erica
Um, wow. No, I'll just, um, yeah, its sober for the health of it, but it just that I just want people to know that I'm, i'm I'm here. So it's one of those, like I'm available. Like I know people always put out and it sounds kind of cliche. My DMs are always open or whatever, but it, for me, it's one of those that I really do want to be of of service. I want to help people. That is my nature. Like I said at the beginning is to, to help people.

01:30:20.31
Erica
um And I will like, I reach out to people if I haven't heard from them for a while, or something, you know, just, you Because I know what it's like to struggle.

01:30:25.29
Bill
Right.

01:30:29.31
Erica
and I know how hard it is to put yourself out there and to to reach out if you need help. And sometimes just knowing that someone's there or someone cares makes the world a difference.

01:30:39.55
Erica
And, you know, and I have people that message me almost pretty much daily just to say good morning or to say hi or something like that. And it doesn't have to be a long drawn out thing, but it's just it's just it's just comforting to know that someone for that that brief moment or whatever thought of you enough to do that.

01:30:55.57
Bill
Right.

01:30:55.84
Erica
And it makes me feel good. And I want people to know that I'm, you know, that I'm there, that I just, know that makes sense, that I'm there to help and I'm there to, and I never tell people, I try not to tell people what to do or try to do anything.

01:31:05.69
Bill
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:31:11.14
Erica
All I have is what I've been through and my lived experience and what worked for me or what helped me. um And I'm always, you know, I've offered for people to be, you know, i don't, you know, I don't call it sponsor.

01:31:22.25
Erica
I'm like, if you want somebody like an accountability partner,

01:31:25.50
Bill
Right.

01:31:25.59
Erica
if you need And I have people that have said yes.

01:31:25.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:31:28.19
Erica
And if I don't hear from them, I reach out. ah you know and just And just being there, because sometimes having someone just, you know because it's hard to like just slide into DMs or to say, hey, I want to talk or I need you.

01:31:40.06
Erica
But knowing that someone's there, so people just feel free to and not bombard me. But if you need some support or if you need just someone to talk to, um you know, even just, you know, if you just want to talk and I listen or that I'm just here.

01:31:54.83
Erica
And I, and like I said, that's my nature is just trying to, to help because I know, know what it's like when you just, when you don't feel like you have help, when you don't feel like you have anywhere else to turn to.

01:32:08.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:08.74
Bill
Right. Right.

01:32:08.86
Erica
um And it's great because the sober community, I think has grown a lot, even in the few years that I've been on it, um that there are, it is becoming more,

01:32:09.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:18.97
Erica
more normalized, um you know, being sober, but they, I need people, you know, people sometimes like I, I can relate to pretty much everybody across the board in some sense, but then there are some things that I would reach out to people about that maybe I know have been to that certain place, you know, to that dark place.

01:32:40.06
Erica
And that, that, yeah, that, you know, that I'm here. I don't know. I will just keep rambling because that's what I do.

01:32:43.87
Mike
Cool. he

01:32:45.94
Erica
so I'll just, I'll just shut up at this point. um But yeah, just that, you know, I'm here.

01:32:49.30
Mike
earth

01:32:53.37
Erica
Okay.

01:32:53.50
Mike
cool

01:32:53.65
Erica
Talk.

01:32:53.78
Bill
No, and that's and that's important. You know, that the only thing I'll say on that is that that's important because people, especially when it comes to social media, um everyone's out there thinking that nobody else gives a fuck, that everyone else is just being their own way and doesn't want to hear from them.

01:33:06.46
Erica
Mm hmm.

01:33:06.55
Bill
So understanding that people, you know, that people are there to listen or if nothing else will take a question or that sort of thing, I think is huge. So that's cool.

01:33:15.71
Erica
Yeah, yeah.

01:33:16.06
Bill
Perfect.

01:33:16.63
Erica
You know, not selling or wanting or doing anything. You know, I don't have any ulterior motive.

01:33:21.43
Bill
Right.

01:33:21.75
Erica
So that too.

01:33:21.76
Bill
Right.

01:33:22.65
Mike
Other than keeping yourself sober. Mm-hmm.

01:33:24.66
Bill
Yeah.

01:33:25.11
Erica
Yes, it does help me. But if it helps me, it helps you. Okay.

01:33:29.14
Mike
Right.

01:33:29.24
Bill
Exactly.

01:33:29.50
Erica
Okay.

01:33:29.92
Bill
Exactly. All right. So Erica, it is time for you and I to quiet down for a minute. Mike's got a a fun way of closing this out. If you've never heard it before, you're about to. So go ahead, Mike.

01:33:39.78
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. Thank you, Erica, for coming and hanging out with us. We do appreciate it. And as always, be kind to each other.

01:33:50.09
Erica
And as always, we kind each other.

01:33:51.73
Mike
Be good to each other.

01:33:52.01
Erica
We kind each other.

01:33:52.89
Mike
Go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:33:54.63
Erica
We kind each other.

01:33:57.45
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:33:58.43
Erica
We're so good. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of soul, from the beginning time to the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:34:10.23
Erica
And now it's time, kids.

01:34:10.26
Mike
And now it's time, kids.

01:34:11.81
Erica
It's time for you to fuck off.

01:34:12.22
Mike
It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

01:34:14.75
Erica
Then keep fucking off.

01:34:15.66
Mike
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:34:15.77
Erica
Keep fucking off.

01:34:21.82
Mike
Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

01:34:29.97
Bill
I was just thinking about that. I'm like, Erica's like, I'm here. Anything you need? Then Micah said to fuck you and fuck off over the fence. And I'm like, that just worked out perfectly. Yeah.

01:34:38.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:39.33
Erica
I'm trying, like biting my mouth, trying not to laugh. I'm like, mm-hmm.

01:34:43.29
Bill
It's the way it's where we end off the episode every week, but I didn't think about that. You're what you said versus is until halfway through there.

01:34:48.90
Erica
I'm all positive and rainbows and butterflies.

01:34:49.19
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, this is

01:34:51.14
Erica
And he's like, fuck you, fuck off and fuck everyone.

01:34:51.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:54.14
Erica
I'm like, okay.

01:34:54.62
Mike
Yep.

01:34:55.61
Bill
yeah like, this is perfect. Absolutely. Perfect.

01:34:57.50
Erica
Gotta have some yin and yang.

01:34:57.65
Bill
So,

01:34:58.75
Erica
Mm-hmm.

01:34:59.13
Bill
Yeah, but seriously, ah Erica, it's it's been a lot of fun. i'm I'm glad that you took the time to come on here, and hopefully you weren't anxious after about the first, whatever it was, seven minutes or anything like that. But it was a great conversation.

01:35:11.42
Bill
But yeah, if anyone anyone needs anything, everyone knows that they can reach out to us. And yeah, i like I told everyone, I don't read their messages Instagram.

01:35:15.86
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:35:18.62
Mike
he

01:35:18.66
Bill
but hey You can reach out to me anyhow, you know, whatever you want to do, or just listen just listen to us. So, all right, Erica, once again, thank you. Thank you very, very much.

01:35:25.91
Erica
and Okay.

01:35:27.02
Bill
Mike, I love you, brother.

01:35:27.29
Erica
Thank you for having me.

01:35:28.76
Bill
Oh, you're very welcome.

01:35:30.16
Mike
And I love you too, Bill.

01:35:31.58
Bill
And we will talk soon. I know that much. And Erica, guessing I'll see you around too. Right, Mike?

01:35:37.67
Erica
What?

01:35:37.88
Mike
Right.

01:35:38.63
Bill
i'll talk mike I'll talk to you soon.

01:35:38.90
Erica
Yeah. Bye.

01:35:39.73
Mike
What? What?

01:35:40.91
Bill
I'll talk to you soon. Yes.

01:35:41.86
Mike
Yeah, yeah, sure. I probably.

01:35:43.94
Mike
Bye.

01:35:44.92
Bill
All right, bye.

01:35:46.87
Erica
by

01:35:47.80
Mike
Bye.