SoberNotMature - Episode 229 (AI Told Us To Flash Our Listeners)

00:00:01.78
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. I've got something new here that then I just, I'll explain it here in a minute, but in the first minute of the episode, so if I said to you, so Mike, if there's any new listeners out there, so hey, if you're a new listener, you should stick around because what would you say? Why would you tell people to stick around, Mike?

00:00:24.98
Bill
Yeah.

00:00:25.56
Mike
You picked the wrong night to ask me that question. ah I got my tank is so fucking empty right now. That's that's why you should stick around to see what the hell is going to happen next.

00:00:41.27
Bill
Thank you. Okay. So in the the reason that if you and I were just, Mike and I were just talking for a couple of minutes beforehand. And one of the reasons that, that I don't know, call it different, call it whatever. I don't want to say unique because that's just stupid.

00:00:52.75
Bill
But um one of the things that we don't ever do, and and Mike told me not to. So it's not just that I tried to i just tried to spring these things on him, but he told me never share the list of things we're going to talk about.

00:00:58.49
Mike
why don

00:01:04.60
Mike
Right.

00:01:04.72
Bill
Don't prepare him because he wants it. He doesn't do things. Well, first of all, off the cuff, but the first thing that you ever said to me when I said, do you want the list that you said?

00:01:13.08
Mike
I said no, because it would give me time to make up a lie.

00:01:16.66
Bill
Okay, so all of this was in the first minute and 20 seconds. I think we hit our mark, and I'll tell you why in a little bit. um But I did. that We got a um a huge spike in streams and downloads this week.

00:01:29.75
Mike
Really?

00:01:30.55
Bill
Yeah, I mean, not just big, like, hey, this dude's got a big dick, but man, look at the fucking hammer on this dude. That's how that's the difference, man.

00:01:37.24
Mike
All right.

00:01:37.72
Bill
um I mean, really big and I'll explain the numbers in in a little bit. But um I when I popped into because I keep an eye on our, you know, that sort of thing, um just overview of our stats and our listening and all that stuff.

00:01:41.44
Mike
hmm.

00:01:46.53
Mike
Huh.

00:01:49.69
Bill
But we don't talk about it on here very much, but um I do keep an eye on it on a daily basis. So and it it wasn't like, it looks like this went up by a few. I mean, it was a lot.

00:01:58.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:59.30
Bill
And I'll explain the numbers maybe after the break or whatever.

00:01:59.67
Mike
and Okay.

00:02:01.66
Bill
So I started doing a little bit of research and and stuff like that. And one of the things that I went to, of course, are AI overlords that I'm giving them reports and shit like that that I'm downloading from um Spotify, you know, the creator website.

00:02:11.77
Mike
Yeah. All

00:02:14.64
Bill
And it's analyzing all the shit. and It's like, oh, I see this and I see that. So god I got some things I wanted to share with you. um

00:02:20.22
Mike
right.

00:02:20.81
Bill
But the first one they said, they're like, yeah, you know, one of the things they said, just try this out for the next four weeks in the beginning of the episode, in the first like minute to minute and a half.

00:02:29.62
Mike
All

00:02:30.02
Bill
You know, if you've got new listeners, you know, tell us why they should be here. So I thought that that would be, that'd be perfect.

00:02:33.02
Mike
right. All right. All right. Me, me.

00:02:34.81
Bill
And the thing of it is, is your answer was perfect.

00:02:38.01
Mike
all right

00:02:38.52
Bill
You know, first of all, having nothing, nothing in the tank, but then you're like, just to see what will happen next.

00:02:41.27
Mike
if he

00:02:43.36
Bill
That's fucking perfect. I might have to write that down to do a meme or something on that part.

00:02:46.42
Mike
e

00:02:46.96
Bill
So, yeah, you know, the the funny thing and actually what I was thinking about over the last couple of days outside of these statistics, but, um you know, it turned out to be along the same lines is so I'm doing up some of these memes and it seems like all the memes that I'm doing and it's clearly on purpose.

00:02:47.29
Mike
all right me me

00:03:03.52
Bill
And we do this and we talk about this. We fuck around about these things that all of our memes are about um either what we're not doing, the fact that we don't do things like other people.

00:03:07.09
Mike
Mm

00:03:12.84
Bill
um you know

00:03:13.47
Mike
hmm.

00:03:14.71
Bill
We don't know why people listen.

00:03:16.75
Mike
All right.

00:03:16.95
Bill
um which are you know it's sort of this It's sort of this self-deprecation, but it's really not because we're not lying.

00:03:17.41
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Yeah.

00:03:21.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:03:22.67
Bill
I mean, it's all true, but we're just we just showcasing the ridiculous ridiculousness of, what ah and I don't even want to say success, ridiculousness of any sort of exposure that we get that's positive.

00:03:23.10
Mike
right yeah

00:03:34.19
Bill
you know And, and like, for instance, I mean, being nominated for best podcast, I mean, Sands Bar is no fucking joke.

00:03:39.54
Mike
Right?

00:03:41.85
Bill
It's not just some fly by night type of thing. So, I mean that obviously we were truly, um, you know, grateful for it and blown away and all that sort of stuff.

00:03:44.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:48.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:50.04
Bill
Cause it, it,

00:03:50.10
Mike
Humbled and all that happy crap.

00:03:51.06
Bill
Yeah. Big fucking deal. You know, so, you know, that was some, a little bit of, um, you know, validation for whatever we think we're not doing, you know, but we still, you know, make fun of ourselves.

00:03:53.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:58.73
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:00.94
Bill
So I just thought about that. I'm like, it's, it, it, it made me laugh because, well, two reasons, just because I mean, any of this shit, I think it's kind of funny doing that, that backwards thing. And now that I'm doing all these things through chat GPT, they understand the tone of what we're trying to get across

00:04:13.74
Mike
Right.

00:04:16.60
Bill
So when I ask it, I'm like, this is what I'm thinking. They're like, oh, here's a couple of ideas. This is really specifically sober, not mature. This is your attitude and your vibe. And it's right on every time because they they're following what what I'm doing and they're they're getting what I'm laying down here. Yeah.

00:04:33.43
Mike
right

00:04:34.62
Bill
And, but it just kind of cracked me up. I'm like, it's, I, I see all these other podcasts out there and I, we make fun of this and that blah, blah, blah. But I mean, all these people out there doing all this fucking work. I mean, and I know spending sometimes, cause I've heard him say this, people spend hours on this shit, you know?

00:04:44.19
Mike
Right.

00:04:50.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:51.07
Bill
and I mean don't get me wrong. It takes me on it on a good day. If there's no issues with technology, it's a good hour and 15, maybe hour and a half to prepare this episode every week after you and I are done.

00:05:02.18
Bill
OK, so my time commitment to the the podcast in general just here is three hours a week. You know, in the Instagram and stuff like that, I mean, granted, you could figure all that shit in, but it's, I mean, yes, I'm doing it for this, but it's also fun, you know, so I don't think of it that way.

00:05:18.02
Bill
um

00:05:18.07
Mike
Right.

00:05:19.51
Bill
But I know for a fact there's people spending, i mean, hours, hours, and then, you know, here's us over here getting fucking nominated.

00:05:22.52
Mike
yeah

00:05:26.82
Bill
There's got to be people out there like, what the fuck?

00:05:29.53
Mike
he Keep it simple, motherfuckers. If you didn't learn that in the first week, man, I don't know what to tell you.

00:05:33.27
Bill
I know.

00:05:36.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:36.50
Bill
Yeah, I know. I know this is... And and that's and that's the thing. you know we took we We took nobody else's advice, but the things that we...

00:05:42.30
Mike
sir

00:05:43.06
Bill
We took what we felt we took what we felt and what we what we learned in this recovery thing, but more importantly, took what we wanted to do in support of our own you know our own mission for ourselves, not a mission for a podcast.

00:05:48.66
Mike
Right.

00:05:55.45
Mike
Sure.

00:05:56.50
Bill
I mean, I don't even...

00:05:56.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:57.50
Bill
Does that even make any sense? But I mean, that's kind of right.

00:05:58.81
Mike
yeah I mean, it does to me, probably not to anybody else, but...

00:06:01.26
Bill
Yeah. Yeah, it's just...

00:06:04.09
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, exactly, man. We're we're we're fucking... We're just um doing the thing. We're just like, hey, you want to do this? Sure, okay. And we started doing it. and I mean, honestly, hasn't really changed a hell of a lot from four fucking years ago, other than the sound quality, because you know we we heard the first couple episodes went, oh my God, we got to do something about this.

00:06:17.42
Bill
Right.

00:06:24.57
Mike
so And we did, and and yeah, and now we...

00:06:24.95
Bill
Yeah.

00:06:28.69
Mike
don't do anything else.

00:06:30.24
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, really, that that is true. There's the only thing we've gotten, we've gotten very selective about guests. We've gotten um selective about how we want somebody to, you know, i don't want to say perform.

00:06:42.49
Bill
That's a bad way to present themselves on our podcast, you know, as far as how the story and stuff is told.

00:06:43.29
Mike
easy Right.

00:06:47.93
Bill
um Yeah, we've got the structure with the reading, you know, every week. But I mean, that that we did for ourselves anyhow, too. You know, so I mean, in the same thing we do, we tell people that tell their stories away.

00:06:53.82
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:06:57.61
Bill
That's also for us. Yeah.

00:06:59.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:59.53
Bill
It's nothing to do with a listener. We don't want to listen to your fucking garbage. So tell your story this goddamn way. if you If you want to hear you know John's full story, go to this on this podcast. Brad did a great job over here and his full goddamn story.

00:07:11.51
Mike
Right.

00:07:12.46
Bill
Go listen over there.

00:07:13.59
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:07:15.67
Bill
But I don't know. it just It just kind of cracked me up. And, you know, it's just, again, watching all these other podcasts. Oh, real quick before I forget, because I mentioned the the Sober Curator before I started. um There is the season two of the Sober Curator podcast is now live.

00:07:31.97
Bill
And I think, well, because then, again, I know Tamara spends a lot of time, so does Elise, doing all this stuff.

00:07:37.46
Mike
Right, right.

00:07:38.41
Bill
And they do video and they do it they do it well-ish, I'll say. Um, I still, I mean, I, uh, the video part of it, I wouldn't do video for the podcast, but they like it. Um, you know, but I think they do a decent job at it.

00:07:47.19
Mike
he

00:07:49.90
Bill
Uh, but they, again, they did it the right way. They, they put up three episodes right away, which I didn't, I haven't listened to them yet, but I got, I've got bits and pieces of the clips.

00:07:54.38
Mike
Right.

00:07:58.77
Bill
Um, So everyone hopefully knows that we're affiliated with the Sober Curator. You know, hop over there and listen to their podcast. and um if you If you follow their website, their podcast runs along the same lines.

00:08:10.17
Bill
It's going to fit that same mold and the same, again, vibe, if you want to put it that way. But they're doing some cool shit over there like they continue to do.

00:08:15.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:17.91
Bill
And yeah, so go listen. Go listen to our friends. So.

00:08:21.59
Mike
Yes.

00:08:21.75
Bill
So there, that's, yeah, that's my, that's my promotion for another, for another podcast for the week.

00:08:22.68
Mike
So there. Mm-hmm.

00:08:27.22
Bill
And I did, I not only did some, well, I don't really have to do hate listening or hate watching anymore. I did some hate reading today or not today, but this week.

00:08:35.10
Mike
yeah All right.

00:08:37.24
Bill
ah So I got a couple of that.

00:08:37.50
Mike
All

00:08:38.28
Bill
I got a, I don't know. I get, I've got things. I get the statistics. Maybe we can talk about that after the break, but yeah, that, that ended up itself.

00:08:41.40
Mike
right. Sure.

00:08:44.92
Bill
And we've had a couple of these spikes like this. but this one this one was.

00:08:47.06
Mike
he

00:08:49.01
Bill
it was a It was a big one, so I think it's just interesting.

00:08:50.55
Mike
all right

00:08:52.21
Bill
and i I think that, again, I think the chat GPT narrowed it down about what may have happened. so um she was dry I'm like, what the fuck were they? horse I thought it was.

00:09:00.02
Mike
excuse

00:09:01.53
Bill
i Honestly, I thought this is a goddamn glitch. i mean that's that's how That's how big of a ah what difference it was.

00:09:04.28
Mike
sure m All right.

00:09:08.18
Bill
so Anyhow. But, um, I, again, I know you had a day. That's why I was just trying, i was trying to give you a little bit of time to settle in.

00:09:12.02
Mike
I did.

00:09:14.67
Bill
So I'm running my mouth about some other shit here, of course, like I always do, but.

00:09:14.84
Mike
a Well, i I appreciate that. I mean, you could do it for the whole 90 minutes because, I mean, I got you're sitting there going, I got this, I got that. i I'm sitting there going, I got fucking nothing.

00:09:26.17
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:09:26.23
Bill
Well, the, and, and, you know, the, the thing of it is, and that's okay for everyone, everyone who's new, this is kind of how it is.

00:09:26.59
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:09:31.64
Mike
is he

00:09:32.57
Bill
Not that Mike, Mike jokes, I say jokingly brings, brings this to the podcast all the time that he brings nothing to the podcast, which I, which I 100% disagree with because this thing doesn't work without the two of us.

00:09:33.05
Mike
o

00:09:39.03
Mike
Right. huh. Mm hmm.

00:09:44.41
Bill
And if you ever go back to an episode where there's a couple of episodes where, um,

00:09:44.93
Mike
Mm

00:09:48.67
Mike
hmm.

00:09:49.30
Bill
I lost internet connection and Mike was left on his own for like eight, eight minutes.

00:09:51.85
Mike
Ah,

00:09:53.44
Bill
One time funniest eight minutes of the, of the entire podcast thing.

00:09:54.10
Mike
as

00:09:57.08
Mike
ah

00:09:57.46
Bill
Cause you know, this, this guy over here that has a great conversation week back and forth, the minute that that there wasn't a second voice there, it's like, Mike's like, Oh, okay.

00:10:07.56
Mike
Waka waka time for the clown show.

00:10:08.89
Bill
You did. Yeah.

00:10:10.36
Mike
Right.

00:10:10.71
Bill
Yeah, you fucking did that too. But also go back to the episodes. There's been a couple of them where Mike had something else going on. And I thankfully, if we didn't have a guest, I just would have waited for you.

00:10:20.87
Bill
We would have done it another day.

00:10:21.27
Mike
Right.

00:10:22.23
Bill
But where I just had a guest on, you know, just me and the guest, um which is fine.

00:10:26.07
Mike
he

00:10:27.13
Bill
I can have a conversation with anyone, but I don't know how to go to a break.

00:10:31.26
Mike
a

00:10:31.35
Bill
And I don't know how to close out this episode. I just can't, you know, without sounding like a fucking fool, you know, and why I can't do it.

00:10:34.17
Mike
right m

00:10:38.55
Bill
I don't know. And again, the same thing, why you couldn't, you couldn't fill three minutes of your own. Who knows? I mean, cause it's not like you can't talk to people, you know? So I don't know.

00:10:47.86
Mike
this Yeah.

00:10:49.10
Bill
Just, uh, so we, we have, we both, we have our place.

00:10:49.17
Mike
yeah Right. excuse

00:10:54.28
Bill
That's my, that's my whole point. And the shit doesn't work without both of us anyhow.

00:10:55.54
Mike
All right. I do agree with that.

00:10:58.34
Bill
So,

00:11:01.11
Bill
Right. Yeah. It just, it just does. So, all right.

00:11:03.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:04.53
Bill
But um anyhow, um again, same thing I was leading into with you having a day. I'm guessing maybe, i think you have a reading. I think.

00:11:11.42
Mike
but but well group We're going to find out. We're going to...

00:11:15.58
Bill
We spinning the wheel again?

00:11:16.89
Mike
We are spinning the fucking wheel because, yeah, I mean, seriously, i was i was literally chewing a piece of pizza like three minutes before I opened the microphone.

00:11:16.98
Bill
Yes. Okay.

00:11:26.73
Mike
um Yeah, you know, I'm chewing pizza, packing cigarettes, fucking pulling the microphone stand down.

00:11:27.19
Bill
Nice.

00:11:34.71
Mike
Yeah, I was juggling, um you know, and I was still two minutes late, which, you know, bugs the shit out of me because five minutes early is on time. And generally i am.

00:11:43.56
Bill
Right.

00:11:44.83
Mike
But yeah, it was right.

00:11:45.42
Bill
Right.

00:11:46.83
Mike
I i messaged Bill because I had said, oh, probably eight o'clock. And then I'm like, um I said, all right, 820 for sure. And I think I hit the button at like 822.

00:11:57.44
Mike
So there you go. That'll give you an idea of what my day was like. So yes, we are spinning the wheel. We're spinning the wheel with as Bill sees it. because

00:12:06.84
Bill
Oh, there we go again. Okay.

00:12:07.83
Mike
Yeah, right. You know I figured, i mean, spinning the wheel with, um, um, God grant me is, I've read so many out of that, that, you know, it's, I spin the wheel.

00:12:20.13
Bill
Right.

00:12:21.94
Mike
Ah, shit. We read that spin the wheel. Ah, shit. We read that, um, touchstones is, could be touch and go. Um, I could have grabbed one of the other books that I'm not currently reading at the time.

00:12:32.82
Mike
They're not in rotation, but Yeah, you know, whatever. um Like I said, I, as Bill sees it, worked last week, and I am going to... let me reach over here.

00:12:46.17
Mike
Where's the wheel? Here it is. All right. All right.

00:12:54.30
Mike
go right Hey. hey

00:12:57.24
Bill
Hey,

00:12:58.01
Mike
Hey. All right. So as Bill sees it, page 109, Freedom Through Acceptance.

00:13:05.98
Bill
nice. Okay, cool.

00:13:06.46
Mike
This is from Grapevine, March 1962. All right, what did Bill have to say there in 1962? Freedom through acceptance. We admitted we couldn't lick alcohol with our own remaining resources, and so we accepted the further fact that dependence upon a higher power, if only our AA group,

00:13:32.63
Mike
could do this here to though. I hate that fucking word. i know it. Yes. Here, here to that. Yes. Impossible job before we couldn't do it. It was an impossible job before we should started trying to do it.

00:13:46.78
Mike
Um, impossible job. The moment we were able to accept these facts fully, our release from alcohol, our release from the alcohol compulsion had begun.

00:14:00.44
Mike
For most of us, this pair of acceptances had required a lot of exertion to achieve. Our whole treasured philosophy of self-sufficiency had to be cast aside.

00:14:12.95
Mike
This has not been done with sheer willpower. It came instead as the result of developing the willingness to accept these new facts of living.

00:14:24.02
Mike
We neither ran nor fought, but except we did. And then we began to be free.

00:14:34.26
Mike
That's it.

00:14:34.97
Bill
Oh shit.

00:14:35.64
Mike
yeah

00:14:37.11
Bill
See again, I can't usually what it.

00:14:38.36
Mike
I tried to, I tried to, you know, end So it sounded like an ending, but yeah.

00:14:43.42
Bill
no No, no, It's okay. So the the thing with it is, and I get into this, ah the other readings, even even with Touchstones, when you said the whatever we're doing with the Touchstones thing, when you label it that way, then um you know i can I'll be writing something, but I'll go up and i'll I'll unmute, but be quiet towards the end.

00:14:49.34
Mike
isn Right. Mm-hmm.

00:14:57.54
Mike
Right.

00:14:58.08
Bill
So I'm ready.

00:14:58.56
Mike
Right.

00:14:58.80
Bill
And this time I was literally writing the the word accept.

00:15:00.47
Mike
me

00:15:01.80
Bill
And ah I'm like, oh, well, fuck. you know Because I'm listening, you know but I don't know. Anyhow.

00:15:06.42
Mike
Right.

00:15:06.74
Bill
So once again, new listeners, this is a reason.

00:15:09.39
Mike
Of course. Mm hmm.

00:15:10.39
Bill
For you to listen, because that pause you just heard, other podcasts out there that actually do more that do that do any work at all um would have edited that out, and we don't.

00:15:12.70
Mike
aha

00:15:17.46
Mike
right right of course

00:15:20.95
Bill
So again, new new listeners. So let let me step back to that for a minute, because I should have said this before.

00:15:25.02
Mike
is is

00:15:25.71
Bill
um And we've spent a long time since we've done this before. Whether you've listened to us for, let's say, for fucking ever. So we've got the the Shirley's of the world, our friend.

00:15:33.29
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:15:35.91
Bill
You know, Shirley, you can't be serious, right?

00:15:37.93
Mike
Right.

00:15:38.03
Bill
And then, you know, there's a handful of other people that we know that have listened to us from the start or listened to us for a long time.

00:15:43.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:15:45.09
Bill
And then if you are a new listener and you pop into this into this episode, do, if you have a chance, whether it's Instagram, whether it's Facebook, whether it's our website through Spotify, leave a brief comment if you wouldn't mind or email You can click through our website or or on our Instagram page.

00:15:45.42
Mike
Right.

00:15:59.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:02.25
Bill
It's simple. It's info at sobernotmature.com. I know it sounds stupid, but it would be interesting to see um how you found us and where you' where you're listening from or where you found us, you know, and and maybe how long.

00:16:06.08
Mike
Yep.

00:16:15.74
Bill
I mean, some of this stuff, and again, even though it doesn't really, it's not a huge part of what we do anymore because we did that. We focused on the stats a lot to begin with.

00:16:26.67
Bill
um Well, I did.

00:16:26.91
Mike
Right.

00:16:28.31
Bill
Yeah.

00:16:28.47
Mike
Yeah, right. and I don't focus on much of anything.

00:16:29.85
Bill
if Yeah, well, and then you had to listen to the fucking stance every week.

00:16:32.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:34.53
Bill
And finally, you're like, you're like, god we we got to stop doing that. I can't I can't take it anymore or something like that. um But it's it's interesting because we we get this. If nothing else, we get this sustained, I'll call it sustained growth, because a lot of times what happens is either you're getting steady growth, you get dips.

00:16:53.53
Bill
and We do that every once in a while, but it seems to be this this core number of people within a certain percentage, probably 25% up or down all the time, which means either we're getting the same people all the time that just get busy for a little bit.

00:17:03.00
Mike
Right.

00:17:07.14
Bill
or we're constantly getting this slow rotation of people based on whatever.

00:17:10.58
Mike
Right.

00:17:11.82
Bill
And I don't know, it would be curious because especially when we get this big spike, like I'll tell you about in a little bit, um, it's like, Jesus Christ. I mean, I think now, I think now I know what happened.

00:17:22.03
Bill
It makes sense, but, um, I don't know where, where you heard about us, how long you've been listening. It would be interesting. Indulge us. So there you go.

00:17:29.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:29.56
Bill
But, um,

00:17:29.88
Mike
Right. And as always, give us a five-star review, smash that like button, and all that happy crap that everybody fucking does. But we would appreciate it because it does fucking help.

00:17:42.58
Bill
Right. So, and that's, that's one of the things on the on the list that i' I was just going to read it now to be, to be stupid, but I'll, I'll read it later when we go through all this stuff.

00:17:46.84
Mike
you All right.

00:17:49.22
Bill
Um, but yeah, I mean, absolutely. And, uh, you know, that seems to be the, the biggest thing we don't get, we've said it before and we're not, we're not begging for reviews or anything like that, but the, if you rate us, if nothing else, you don't have to write anything.

00:17:57.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:01.89
Bill
If you rate us though, what it it literally does, if you ever search for a podcast, I don't care what you're searching for. Crime Stories, football, baseball, betting, sobriety, you're going to get a certain list of podcasts.

00:18:13.25
Bill
The ones you get on top are the ones that are rated best. And, you know, it just, they don't even necessarily have to be the biggest podcast. We are ranked number two on a website called feedspot.com.

00:18:24.90
Bill
And we have been for fucking ever. We dropped, I don't know, like three, four months ago down to like 12.

00:18:27.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:31.79
Bill
And then within within two days, we're back up to number two.

00:18:32.34
Mike
ate.

00:18:34.56
Mike
Right.

00:18:35.44
Bill
we're We're number two behind recovery elevator. If anyone in the in the recovery space, as they say, quote unquote, you've probably heard of recovery elevator. It's a big they're a big fucking deal. You know, so they've got this thing. They do trips. They do all these different things. They've been around forever.

00:18:51.51
Bill
Their podcast. And then it's us. OK, and we're.

00:18:54.07
Mike
ah it

00:18:55.27
Bill
yeah we are nothing even close to this and all the other ones that the brads had a sober motivation and um sober guy podcast all these other ones that are do these people do all this fucking work we're number two okay because we've got a small audience but rated very very high on both platforms but it helps to your point so

00:18:58.23
Mike
right

00:19:07.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:19:12.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:14.74
Mike
It does. Yes. Uh-huh.

00:19:16.41
Bill
But um I, you know, really the the Bill sees it type of thing. I like, I like that book and I should, I was going to try to find that and I i forgot.

00:19:19.70
Mike
ah ha

00:19:23.77
Bill
So um not that it really matters, not that I would go into a, maybe a lot of effort to read it all the time. But um I really, the last last week's reading in this one, I like the concepts that I remember reading it from, like I mentioned it last week and um like this one.

00:19:38.09
Bill
I mean, how, how huge is that? I mean, and we talk about it all the time. I mean, just the simple thing, what it was titled, what freedom and acceptance.

00:19:45.18
Mike
Sure.

00:19:46.01
Bill
Okay. but you Yeah. You don't, you don't have to grab it again. It's that it's not a big deal.

00:19:49.26
Mike
it's It's right next to me. i i have three Freedom through acceptance.

00:19:53.72
Bill
Oh, freedom through acceptance, even it even better. Because, I mean, it's not just talking about two things.

00:19:56.20
Mike
Yike.

00:19:57.84
Bill
It's talking about how to get one from the other.

00:19:58.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:00.04
Bill
So um the first thing it started to talk about, though, was accepting the fact.

00:20:00.18
Mike
Yelp.

00:20:04.16
Bill
And i kind of I kind of broke down that sentence a little bit. But I wrote down accept the fact and then put higher power on there. And I think it was something along the lines of accepting the fact that we that we need or need to rely on.

00:20:16.29
Bill
Does that sound familiar?

00:20:16.79
Mike
yeah we accepted the further fact that dependence upon a higher power and then parenthetically if only our a group which i i love you know i mean right okay so more new listeners shit right um right i'm an atheist right bill's an agnostic um

00:20:17.49
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:20:32.90
Bill
Right.

00:20:37.18
Mike
you know, we don't, we don't go in. That's maybe why some people like us and maybe why some people hate listen to us, which is fine either way.

00:20:43.74
Bill
right

00:20:46.10
Mike
um But I mean, you know, Bill Wilson, you know, I mean, he wasn't, Yes, he had the flash of light, and yes, he and Dr. Bob was definitely religious and all of that, and that's cool.

00:20:57.60
Mike
you know and and But, I mean, you know in Bill's story, ah um I mean, he said one of my favorite quotes of the big book is, you know, to Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man not too closely followed by those who claimed him.

00:21:11.81
Mike
I mean, he let he put that in the goddamn big book, and he put it in there for a reason.

00:21:14.62
Bill
Right.

00:21:15.85
Mike
um You know, that's great. to where he was coming from and and where he, you know, he stayed, man. And he always, you know, yeah, God is you understand him.

00:21:26.29
Mike
And, you know, and and here, you know, even if that power greater than yourself is your AA group, you know, just know it has to be something that's not you and something bigger than you and you need to be a part of it.

00:21:39.65
Mike
And, um you know, that's one of the reasons that I know you and, but definitely I can say one of the reasons AA works for me in the higher power thing.

00:21:49.25
Bill
Right.

00:21:49.54
Mike
And I know it's, you know, it, it, the God part scares people away and they, you know, fuck AA and they're God shit. It's goddamn religious stuff. And, you know, and I'm sitting here at 16 plus years, um, working the AA program as a atheist, as an atheist,

00:22:09.56
Mike
fucking tired. Um, English is my second language. No, my first language is mumbling and drooling.

00:22:15.54
Bill
hey

00:22:20.78
Mike
Um, but yeah, you know, so I, I, whatever. All right. I, I, I woke up there for a second. I'll get back to you.

00:22:30.42
Bill
No, and and you know what? i and I agree with you. And that's the the thing of it is, though, the the the point is, and I'm glad it said, you know, freedom through acceptance rather than just listing those as two separate things, because that in and of itself, I mean, accepting the fact, and and we talked about it, and to get back to it, um things are gonna we're we're talking about things that that I ended up doing, or I'm not I, and well, okay,

00:22:39.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:22:54.07
Bill
We put these where we possibly are putting together this whole book thing and it was from our episodes and us pulling these concept of things we talk about.

00:22:58.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:23:01.35
Bill
So when I said I that's the wrong way to put it.

00:23:01.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:03.93
Bill
It was a it was a topic that we had talked about in one of the very early episodes.

00:23:08.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:09.13
Bill
So we've been talking about this shit for, you 229 and for plus years.

00:23:13.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:14.81
Bill
Because literally these these things that we're talking about, this acceptance through or freedom through acceptance, especially with the higher power, um we were in the Keating Center 16 years ago at this fucking time.

00:23:21.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:25.94
Bill
you know you know And on July 10th of 2010, we were sitting at the at the Keating Center, not the three-quarter house.

00:23:26.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:33.06
Mike
Nope.

00:23:33.14
Bill
We were at the Keating Center. we weren't We weren't working yet.

00:23:34.01
Mike
Yes, we were.

00:23:35.98
Bill
We were still in fucking groups.

00:23:36.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:37.54
Bill
You were a house father. I was maybe.

00:23:40.41
Mike
Yeah, probably at that point.

00:23:42.58
Bill
Probably. Okay. um So we were we were in the we were in the in the thick of the shit.

00:23:48.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:48.78
Bill
In the middle of the Keating Center

00:23:50.81
Mike
You're soaking in it.

00:23:52.09
Bill
Yeah.

00:23:52.44
Mike
he

00:23:52.61
Bill
Yeah. yeah ah Okay. Side note here real quick. Oh, and I've got another one with arrested development. Um, they, they were going to Job was going to, um, this restaurant called ancient Chinese secret. And then, um, Jason Bateman and, uh, uh, God, why can't I think of his name now? The other, the ball guy Tobias from the show, um,

00:24:16.06
Bill
why can't i think of the comedian there we god damn i said it last week like 17 times um jason bateman and david cross are like ancient chinese secret huh and then they just they just go on with the fucking episode now if you're if you're younger than i don't know what 50 you probably you probably don't know what that is it was a calgon commercial right calgon or tide or

00:24:16.57
Mike
David Cross?

00:24:26.94
Mike
crazy right 50 probably yeah yeah yeah detergent of some sort

00:24:41.46
Bill
Yeah, but i but anyhow, so um in going through all of this stuff, you know, these things were implanted in our heads and embedded in our heads really, really early as far as we we needed to.

00:24:50.94
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:24:53.97
Bill
They didn't tell us what we had to accept, but they said you need to accept something.

00:24:58.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:58.78
Bill
And, you know, nobody said it's got to be a God thing. It's got to be my thing. You got to, you got to think like me and dress like me and walk like me.

00:25:02.84
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:25:06.10
Bill
Nobody said any that fucking shit.

00:25:06.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:07.46
Bill
They said, just, just if nothing else, okay, I've got something you can borrow for a minute.

00:25:07.61
Mike
Right.

00:25:11.98
Bill
Dan told us that he said, or just realize that whatever you think, just know that you're not it.

00:25:18.26
Mike
right

00:25:19.19
Bill
And that is the one that hit for me. So to your, to your same, same point. Yes. The, the, the only reason that any of this shit works for me is because it is not based in a God thing.

00:25:31.10
Bill
You know, these days, both of us, again, you, you say, good.

00:25:31.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:34.06
Bill
I, I adopted that from you. We can deal with people, you know, kind of like dripping the God shit all over the goddamn place.

00:25:35.86
Mike
Right. Well.

00:25:40.26
Bill
You know, just vomiting God all over the place.

00:25:40.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:25:43.99
Bill
We can deal with it, but it's not our thing, you know?

00:25:45.55
Mike
Right. listen

00:25:47.26
Bill
And,

00:25:47.22
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, yeah again, they acceptance, and you know, it works for them and, you know, right.

00:25:49.94
Bill
ah yeah

00:25:52.66
Mike
And I'm not going to, I'm not going to say that, you know, any more than I'd want them to say that what works for me doesn't. Right. If that works for them, good work it. You know, we've said that over and over too, as long as it makes you a better person and it makes you, you know, hell, a better a better person, it's somebody that helps other people and makes the world a better place.

00:26:14.08
Mike
I don't give a fuck where it comes from. you know yeah right you know you call it whatever you want um imagine whatever you want um i do you know don't tell me i'm wrong i'm not gonna tell you you're wrong anymore

00:26:16.45
Bill
Right.

00:26:24.47
Bill
Right.

00:26:27.95
Bill
Right. yeah

00:26:29.85
Mike
yeah

00:26:30.23
Bill
I still, I still like it when you add that because it it is, yeah, it's true.

00:26:32.02
Mike
okay

00:26:33.47
Bill
I'm not, you know, it's like, I'm not going to be a dick, um you know, as, as much these days, you know, or add that little qualifier.

00:26:33.94
Mike
me yeah yeah mm-hmm yep

00:26:38.91
Bill
Cause it is true. You know, it's, it was easy, easier for me to, and I think every once in a while, something will pop up. It's a life thing. It's a sobriety thing, whatever the case is.

00:26:47.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:47.78
Bill
And i I remember how my how my mindset was on something either before I got sober or when I first got sober, depending on what the what the subject is.

00:26:52.83
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:26:56.28
Bill
And I don't look at myself and say, you know, that I was a fucking idiot. I just didn't. I hadn't evolved yet, you know, and or I hadn't evolved to a point.

00:27:00.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. yeah Yeah. I mean, I look at myself and say there was an asshole and a dick and yeah, right.

00:27:07.22
Bill
Yeah, yeah.

00:27:08.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:10.10
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all, all of that. If I, if I was, I was, I'm going I'm going to name it for sure.

00:27:14.55
Mike
h

00:27:14.70
Bill
But, but sometimes it was just a matter of, it was pure ignorance. I didn't know any better, you know?

00:27:18.92
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:20.73
Bill
And I mean, we said it before when, when we started this podcast and when I first got on Instagram, I didn't understand what AF meant. I'm like, oh, as fuck.

00:27:29.27
Mike
Right.

00:27:29.45
Bill
you know, I didn't, didn't know I meant alcohol free.

00:27:30.10
Mike
a

00:27:31.29
Bill
I didn't know about gray area drinking.

00:27:31.48
Mike
Right.

00:27:33.21
Bill
I didn't know about sober curious.

00:27:33.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:35.21
Bill
I had no fucking clue.

00:27:35.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:37.29
Bill
I knew about Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:27:39.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:40.06
Bill
I knew about, um, smart recovery and then, um, you know, people that some people went to therapy, but the smart, it was the smart recovery and AA. Those are the two things. That's how you get sober.

00:27:52.25
Bill
You know, that's how you get and stay sober.

00:27:52.30
Mike
right mm-hmm right now yeah that's more likely but yeah right that's Akron

00:27:54.50
Bill
Cause I saw, I was only exposed to those things, you know, through my dad and whatever. Um, and actually through, you know, and the majority of stuff, I don't remember smart recovery or any of this other shit in Cleveland, or maybe we just didn't hang around people like that.

00:28:08.98
Bill
Right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it would be stupid for us to think it'd be ridiculous for us to think that, that everyone in the, in the Cleveland area only gets sober through Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:28:19.63
Bill
I mean, it's, that's it's, yeah, but I mean, even, even that it'd be, it'd be insanity, you know? um

00:28:25.37
Mike
I know.

00:28:26.20
Bill
But, you know, just again, we didn't we didn't know any better. So, I mean, think about what this has done for us as far as, you know, giving us, you know, that that freedom to think more openly um through, you know, through acceptance of of all these other people.

00:28:38.92
Bill
So, um yeah, just I mean, it's it's I don't know, it's mind blowing stuff, but it's all growth.

00:28:39.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:43.92
Bill
But the, the other thing I wrote down was released from compulsion. again, I don't remember exactly how that was written down. Um, self, uh, sufficiency.

00:28:50.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:54.11
Bill
Oh yeah.

00:28:54.49
Mike
Right.

00:28:54.59
Bill
So no,

00:28:56.73
Mike
Well, yeah, no, I mean, i I see that one. Our whole treasured philosophy of self-sufficiency had to be cast aside.

00:29:05.34
Bill
Okay, there it is.

00:29:05.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:29:06.30
Bill
Yeah, self-sufficiency cast aside. And again, I'm scribbling down this shit like I always do, and I look back and I'm like, what the fuck? I can't even get the concept of it because it's only four words.

00:29:15.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:16.54
Bill
um So again, what what was that self-sufficiency cast to aside?

00:29:18.49
Mike
But I mean, no, yeah no, I, and I love the way Bill Wilson wrote, um, our whole treasured philosophy of self-sufficiency had to be cast aside.

00:29:30.94
Bill
Right.

00:29:30.90
Mike
Right. Yeah. This whole, yeah. You know, I love that our whole treasured, It was. Yes. I'm i'm taking care of myself. I'm my way, and my way or the highway. Right.

00:29:41.34
Mike
Yeah. we We love that shit about ourselves. and And in those few words, Bill points it out. No, you got to throw that shit away, man. Your whole treasure, your ego and your I'm self-sufficient.

00:29:51.50
Bill
Right.

00:29:55.12
Mike
Shut the fuck up. No, you're not. You're goddamn drunk.

00:29:57.98
Bill
Right.

00:30:00.28
Bill
Right. Yeah. I mean, could you, and Both of us are still, i think, very self sufficient and you know we still right.

00:30:06.62
Mike
Well, now, no, now, I mean, because of this program, because of working this shit, because of throwing away my treasured philosophy of being self-sufficient, I actually am self-sufficient now.

00:30:08.14
Bill
David Pérez,

00:30:22.46
Mike
But I mean, you know, and not completely, because, you know, ah we've talked about that on here millions of times.

00:30:22.80
Bill
Right.

00:30:28.46
Mike
You know, I don't run my own life, man. First step shit, right? My life was unmanageable. My life was still fucking unmanageable. What manages my life are these principles and these concepts.

00:30:39.50
Mike
And that's what fucking manages my life today. My treasured philosophy didn't work too fucking well. Mm

00:30:47.22
Bill
Right. And I mean, even, even today, even though, you know, we're, we're self-sufficient and great point.

00:30:51.94
Mike
hmm. Mm

00:30:52.90
Bill
And I wasn't even thinking of it that way, but ah based on everything that, again, because of this program, everything we've learned and all sorts of things, everything we were taught in the work we've done for the last 16 plus years, that gives us the freedom again to, to be self-sufficient, but we still, you know, we still need help.

00:30:58.10
Mike
hmm.

00:31:02.52
Mike
Right.

00:31:09.50
Bill
We still know that we, that we need.

00:31:10.36
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:31:11.58
Bill
And we, more importantly, I think not just know that we need help,

00:31:15.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:16.31
Bill
have the ability to ask for help and are not, you know, I, I don't, I'm not ashamed to ask for help these days.

00:31:18.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:21.05
Mike
Right.

00:31:21.22
Bill
You know, um, I don't like to be in a fucked up position. but, but the thing of it is, ah and I've said this before, I think the, the biggest difference between, between now, if I'm in a fucked up situation, if I'm, if I'm in a situation where I'm like, geez, Jesus Christ, man, I, I literally don't know what to do, or I don't, I don't know a way out of this, whatever this thing is, or this circumstance that

00:31:24.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:33.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:39.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:43.26
Mike
Right.

00:31:44.82
Bill
The cool part is, is that I probably didn't, probably didn't put myself there, um you know, either on purpose or because I acted recklessly or, um you know, just again, cast aside whatever i I knew I shouldn't do, you know, or I didn't cast aside like the ah the, the rules that I have set for myself, the ideals that I have for myself, I didn't, I didn't break all these rules and be like, well, okay, that's, that's why you ended up here.

00:31:53.73
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:32:02.78
Mike
Right.

00:32:08.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:15.03
Bill
You know, a lot of times it's just, you're doing all the right things and just life came in and said, Hey buddy, here's a little fucking foot up the ass, you know, or there's your punching the balls.

00:32:23.97
Mike
Yep.

00:32:26.09
Bill
You're walking down the wrong street today.

00:32:26.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:32:27.69
Bill
And you're like, well, what the fuck? Yeah.

00:32:29.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:30.36
Bill
You know, okay. But, but the thing of it is, is that, so I have got a, I've got a friend of mine that I had just, I sent a text to, i don't know. I said it in this person, she and I keep in touch and she's a friend and I met her years ago and it had been, i don't know, it'd been a few weeks since I had talked to her and, or not talked to her, but texted her and, you know, kind of gave her the whole, day Hey, you know, tip simple thing.

00:32:48.61
Mike
Right.

00:32:51.45
Bill
Hey, how you doing? What's up? What's new? You know, I do all those things.

00:32:53.03
Mike
Right.

00:32:54.37
Bill
And, um you know, she came back and she's like, shit, she goes, I lost my job. I'm like, Oh fuck, man. And it was a job that she's been at for like a year or so, whatever it was.

00:32:58.75
Mike
Okay.

00:33:03.66
Bill
um Never really felt like she settled in properly and you know has has a lot of um a lot of experience. She's, I think, five years younger, so probably early So she's been around.

00:33:16.84
Bill
She has the the background and the education for the career she's in and that sort of thing.

00:33:20.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:21.54
Bill
So it's a specialized type of position that she's in. And, you know, she just never really felt like she settled in and blah, blah, blah.

00:33:24.15
Mike
Right.

00:33:28.26
Bill
Outside of her control, she was doing the work, but got let go.

00:33:30.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:31.34
Bill
And, um, you know, she's like, you know, I'm i'm out here and I'm doing all this shit and I'm whatever, blah, blah, blah.

00:33:31.54
Mike
Right.

00:33:36.37
Bill
And I told her, I said, you know what? I said, I get it. I'm like, you're, um, she's like, I'm, I'm freaking out. Yeah. And I said, I understand, you know, and on top of that, her, her dad died like a year ago.

00:33:41.46
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:33:46.75
Bill
They're still, they're like in the mode that we were with mom trying to clean out the house and get all this stuff set.

00:33:49.18
Mike
Right. Mm.

00:33:50.71
Bill
So she's like, you know, last year was fucking hell.

00:33:50.90
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:33:53.66
Bill
Now I lost my job. Now we're still, I'm still cleaning out my childhood home.

00:33:55.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:57.33
Bill
I got all, you know, it's like, what more can you pile on me type of thing, you know?

00:34:01.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:01.62
Bill
And i said I said, here's the thing. And I said, I get it. But I said, I i said i know you well enough to know that all all you need to do, first of all, you've got the background. Something's going to happen. It's going to fall into place.

00:34:12.33
Bill
You you have the ability to keep doing that next right thing.

00:34:12.55
Mike
Right.

00:34:15.73
Bill
She's not one of those poor me people.

00:34:18.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:18.84
Bill
I mean, she's but very vocal about like, okay, what the fuck, man? Why does all this shit keep being thrown at me?

00:34:22.39
Mike
Right.

00:34:24.08
Bill
um But I'm like, just just keep walking forward, man.

00:34:24.28
Mike
Right.

00:34:26.96
Bill
She's not one of us. um you know But she's like, you know I look at it the same way.

00:34:28.15
Mike
okay

00:34:30.72
Bill
She's like, one way or the other, this shit's going to work out. She's like, I don't know how, but...

00:34:33.64
Mike
Right.

00:34:34.65
Bill
you know

00:34:35.22
Mike
hu

00:34:36.28
Bill
Perfect example of of a normie that has the same type of philosophy. And it has nothing to fucking do with me.

00:34:41.72
Mike
right

00:34:43.76
Bill
you know I mean, I just happen to say the same thing. And she says, yeah. i can say She's like, I feel the same way. So there are people out there, which we know, that learn these things without going through the shit that we had.

00:34:49.08
Mike
right

00:34:52.54
Mike
Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, she probably learned it when, you know, in her like twenties or something. a And yeah, we had to, we had to have it pounded it into our heads because we're idiots.

00:35:00.31
Bill
Yeah.

00:35:04.63
Bill
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:06.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:07.38
Bill
But, um, I don't know what to see these, these whole things, you know, having that ability and, and I'm, I'm sure, you know, she's still got, she's got family around. She's got friends. Um, I'm, I know for a fact that if she needs help and I told her the same thing, I said, same thing.

00:35:15.68
Mike
Right.

00:35:20.22
Bill
I tell all people the people in my life that, you know, i'm I'm friends with and I care about.

00:35:22.14
Mike
Right.

00:35:23.78
Bill
Um, you know, i'm like, I, I have no idea what I can do. I don't, I don't see, uh, you know, it's not like I have something in mind that I can help you with, but if you need anything, let me know if I can help.

00:35:27.35
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:35:34.55
Bill
I have no idea how I can, but let me know.

00:35:36.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:35:37.27
Bill
you know and And what the fuck more can I do? And what what more can you do when we do?

00:35:39.72
Mike
Mm.

00:35:41.99
Bill
you know to And sometimes what what more can people do to us?

00:35:42.17
Mike
Right.

00:35:44.83
Bill
Just, hey, man, if you need a a shoulder and ear, like you said you said a couple of times, just a warm fucking body to sit there and let somebody lean on for a minute.

00:35:46.41
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:35:51.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:54.10
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:56.65
Bill
If it works, it works. That's all that fucking matters, right?

00:35:58.01
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sometimes that's all you fucking need, man. You know, a hand to hold.

00:36:04.31
Bill
Right.

00:36:04.38
Mike
yes Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:06.20
Bill
So the the last thing I wrote down, which you know kind of wraps back to everything from the beginning, but um you know just willingness to accept.

00:36:10.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:12.68
Bill
And I don't remember what the sentence was, but you know the the word willingness, I think we talk about enough.

00:36:13.27
Mike
Right.

00:36:18.55
Bill
you know where Worst case scenario, at the at the beginning of all this all this shit, when we first walked in the doors, You know, we, we know that we had to have what, like a little bit of hope, a little bit of faith, even if we didn't know it, it had to be there.

00:36:25.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:28.95
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:36:31.93
Bill
But I think just as maybe even more importantly, we had to have that willingness. I mean, right. Would that be more like a number one?

00:36:37.05
Mike
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah.

00:36:38.69
Bill
Okay.

00:36:38.94
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, willingness to to do something different.

00:36:43.42
Bill
Right.

00:36:43.48
Mike
Yeah, because clearly, yeah, right.

00:36:43.94
Bill
Right.

00:36:45.71
Mike
Yeah. You know, and that's it's it it all wraps up and into acceptance, you know. and And, hey, there's a pamphlet out there or if you're interested in it.

00:36:50.40
Bill
Right.

00:36:54.26
Mike
ah It's called Acceptance. It's one of my favorite bits of AA literature.

00:37:01.62
Bill
Right.

00:37:02.26
Mike
That's where the story from the of the Bedouin, you know, how can you live ah out here in the desert with all these whirlwinds spinning around you? I just let them whirl. All

00:37:12.50
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, and again, when, whenever that saying you first brought that up a couple of years ago on here, it could be shit could have been three years ago for all I know.

00:37:19.51
Mike
right.

00:37:20.94
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, it it is sometimes you just, you just have to, and you know, in the, in the thing of it is, is that, you know, that the same thing that I talked to talked about for, for months and, you know, we talked about it recently too, you know, both of us have gone through and maybe are still going through some shit, you know, in our personal lives.

00:37:38.72
Bill
And, know, Nothing that we've really brought up in here. I've talked about it. I mean, it's, it's job and it's money and it's things like that for me.

00:37:42.39
Mike
Right mm-hmm

00:37:45.08
Bill
And, and I get really fucking frustrated that I have to sit around. And once again, I, when I say this, I try, I got to qualify it I'm not mad that I have to sit around here. There's nothing to do with here where I, ain where I'm at.

00:37:54.92
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

00:37:57.58
Bill
There's just, I want to do more and I can't right now, you know?

00:37:59.60
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:38:02.04
Bill
And, um, and it's, but I, the same thing is it got to the point where I'm not as antsy as I was, you know, a year ago when things started to slow up a little bit because this time last year i had been, id well, yeah, I was, I, I was doing less traveling at this time last year for the same reason things slowed up a little bit, not as slow as they are now, but, um, I was really fucking antsy then, you know, I've, I've accepted back to this reading, you know, that, that i had to sit around a little bit.

00:38:19.00
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:38:25.08
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. be out you Oh, yeah.

00:38:29.62
Bill
And I know you had to go through some stuff and you know some acceptance things. and um I mean, it's it it sucks. It's like, well, why the fuck? I don't i don't want to have to...

00:38:39.10
Mike
Yeah, I don't wanna. I don't wanna.

00:38:40.66
Bill
i i I really don't. i don't want I don't want to do any of this.

00:38:44.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:45.91
Bill
you know i'm not Not the sobriety thing.

00:38:46.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:47.75
Bill
I don't want to do any of these lifey things.

00:38:47.83
Mike
All right, all right.

00:38:49.79
Bill
Just fucking...

00:38:50.07
Mike
Right, yeah. Yeah, but the sobriety thing fucking gets us through the lifey things.

00:38:55.00
Bill
I know. Yeah.

00:38:55.67
Mike
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:38:56.44
Bill
um Imagine that.

00:38:57.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:00.98
Bill
All right. So, um, anything, anything else with the reading, anything else you want to, you want to talk about? i almost said anything else we, we missed, but you made a good point last week. You're like, we probably missed a lot, but.

00:39:10.58
Mike
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, tons of it. you know And we went all over the place, and we came back to it.

00:39:13.24
Bill
yeah

00:39:15.26
Mike
We went someplace else, and then we came back to it. and I don't know. Yeah.

00:39:19.32
Bill
Right.

00:39:19.58
Mike
But one way or another, i think we're done with it.

00:39:23.54
Bill
Right. Okay, cool. But once again, I got to say it, i'm I'm liking the, I'm liking the, as Bill sees it readings.

00:39:29.37
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:29.81
Bill
so I think it's, it's a, it's an interesting change of pace, if nothing else, I just need to be able to either one of two things, either you have to say, you know, kind of do the, Hey, Hey, I'm coming up with a last sentence, which I don't expect you to do.

00:39:34.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:37.38
Mike
Hey, hey, hey.

00:39:40.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:39:41.95
Bill
Or when you, you know, and that happened.

00:39:42.54
Mike
Meh.

00:39:45.39
Bill
Ding.

00:39:45.53
Mike
Right. he

00:39:47.73
Bill
I don't know, whatever. I mean, we'll, we'll figure it out.

00:39:49.42
Mike
I'll find a sound effect.

00:39:49.79
Bill
We're boing.

00:39:51.54
Mike
I'll get a horn.

00:39:52.09
Bill
Yeah.

00:39:52.38
Mike
Right. I'll get a horn or something.

00:39:56.81
Mike
Clown horn.

00:39:57.72
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Wait a second. Do I have did you hear that?

00:40:02.71
Mike
Yeah, I heard it It was a rim shot.

00:40:03.83
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the The drums, the drums, boys and girls, that not, you know, rim shot.

00:40:08.31
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:40:11.75
Bill
Hey, now, now.

00:40:14.07
Mike
Shot all over the rim.

00:40:14.27
Bill
heyow

00:40:19.90
Bill
Oh, fuck. I tried to hit the nice beaver. What did I deleted the goddamn thing? Son of a bitch.

00:40:24.02
Mike
ah Ah.

00:40:25.43
Bill
Well, I have it. I have it saved. I'll have to get it back at some point. It's not a big deal.

00:40:28.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:29.24
Bill
It's not a big deal. Oh, you know what's funny is a couple of weeks ago, and I and i wrote this down because I wanted to mention this name. So I had the Keating Center stuff. We were talking about whatever, and I said there was ah there was a guy with kind of curly hair that did driving, that drove around the white van for Marty, and you were thinking Rudy, and I'm like, that wasn't Rudy, wasn't whatever.

00:40:46.59
Mike
No.

00:40:47.04
Bill
Yeah. I was like, I don't have no idea where I was. It was one day literally out of the blue. I was not even thinking about it or trying to think it.

00:40:54.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:54.65
Bill
i'm His name popped into my head. Okay.

00:40:57.21
Mike
All right.

00:40:57.94
Bill
It was Terry.

00:40:59.96
Mike
Terry.

00:41:01.02
Bill
Do you remember Terry?

00:41:03.77
Mike
Kind of, sort of, I don't know.

00:41:04.66
Bill
And I know 100% that that's him.

00:41:06.16
Mike
Right?

00:41:08.90
Bill
I know it is, um but it just, i it but literally, i don't I don't know even where I'm like, i'm like Terry, i'm like I'm like, I gotta fuck.

00:41:09.02
Mike
Right?

00:41:18.10
Mike
but right the two brain cells touched oh hey oh hey oh hmm

00:41:20.57
Bill
Oh yeah. is Terry. Yeah. Somebody buzzed my nuts and I'm like, Whoa, Terry.

00:41:25.46
Mike
oh hey hey

00:41:26.41
Bill
Hey, but yeah, just out of the fucking blue. So yeah, that, that was his name. And I, um, he ended up, uh, he was, I think he was a couple of years sober, maybe a year.

00:41:36.78
Bill
He's at least a year plus at the time we were there, um, lived in a single dorm, um, right down from where Marty was and on the, on the first floor. um you know,

00:41:46.36
Mike
I mean, i'm I'm sure if I saw his face, I'd i'd go, oh yeah, that dude. All

00:41:50.01
Bill
Yeah, and I don't even remember what he looked like. I just remember he was he was kind of tall and thin, had brown kind of curly-ish hair, not like tight curl hair, but you know wavy hair.

00:41:57.85
Mike
right, man. All

00:41:59.45
Bill
That's all I remember about it. remember anything else with his facial features. But, yeah, this so Terry.

00:42:02.90
Mike
right.

00:42:04.93
Bill
Terry was his.

00:42:05.08
Mike
Sounds vaguely familiar.

00:42:07.22
Bill
Okay, good, good, good. All right, so um listening to a ah podcast this week, they were talking to a guest and basically asking the guest what what made him drink. um The guy had said, listening listening to a story, the guy um just seemed to have it all at bay for years, but once he started drinking, all bets were off.

00:42:30.07
Bill
um Why did I write this down? Hang on.

00:42:31.99
Mike
I don't know.

00:42:32.19
Bill
let's I'm sitting here reading this.

00:42:32.62
Mike
Okay.

00:42:34.15
Bill
um

00:42:34.46
Mike
Okay.

00:42:35.38
Bill
Oh, you know what? remember now. I apologize. it It just clicked. I'm like, what the fuck? This was my this was the the line that was supposed to help me remember remember this guy's story.

00:42:43.45
Mike
okay

00:42:44.54
Bill
Now I do. Jesus Christ. I apparently didn't even give myself good notes on this. So this guy was a, he was a preacher's son. So a good kid from a, you know, from a good family, always did things, did all the right things and blah, blah, blah.

00:42:53.36
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:42:56.68
Mike
Hmm.

00:42:59.28
Bill
And wasn't anti-alcohol, but just, you know, felt, Hey, it because I just don't, um you know, not in the drinking and, you know, that sort of thing.

00:43:05.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:06.34
Bill
Conservative family but raised that way and the values and blah, blah, blah.

00:43:10.23
Mike
Sure.

00:43:10.65
Bill
So I don't think it was till he got to, I'm going to say, I don't think he drank all the way through high school. Again, he wasn't this anti-alcohol advocate or anything like that.

00:43:20.97
Bill
Just this was, this is who I, yeah, this is who I am and I'm living my life and I'm cool, you know, um never any tendencies to it, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:21.66
Mike
Just wasn't part of his world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:28.67
Bill
And that's what, that's what kind of struck me at it. So he, yeah I think in college, you know, kind of was just one of those things. He was with somebody and hanging out.

00:43:37.69
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:43:38.16
Bill
And then it's like, you know what, let me, I think I will. I'm just going just be social and have a drink type of thing. So as soon as he drank um again, that's where the all bets were off type of thing.

00:43:43.59
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:43:48.61
Bill
So from that point forward, it wasn't like he even said that it was the best thing in the world or anything like that, but just very slowly it, it increased and he became obviously a full blown alcoholic.

00:43:49.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:54.42
Mike
Right.

00:43:59.46
Mike
Yep.

00:44:02.58
Bill
So my question to that whole thing was, um you know, kind of along the lines of, and I know we talk about, um it doesn't really, it doesn't really matter where and how and whether you're born with it, that sort of thing.

00:44:13.18
Bill
But I'm wondering if this kind of maybe supports that mindset, because you had talked about that, where you think you were this way from the start, correct? That you, okay.

00:44:21.18
Mike
right

00:44:22.36
Bill
So, Is it, is it possible that this guy right off the bat, if somebody would have gave him a drink at 12 versus let's say 22, would do, I mean, could he have had the same result at 12 or was it environmental?

00:44:29.35
Mike
Uh huh. Mm hmm.

00:44:35.80
Bill
i don't know. I don't even know what my question is, but it was curious to me that you live this entire life where you're just kind of like, this isn't even on my radar.

00:44:38.10
Mike
Right.

00:44:43.52
Bill
It is, but it isn't.

00:44:44.08
Mike
Uh huh.

00:44:44.56
Bill
but I'm not going have a drink and all a sudden it's like, you know, it just blows up.

00:44:44.79
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great argument for my point of view. Yeah.

00:44:53.46
Bill
Right.

00:44:53.67
Mike
You know, yeah. You know, once you once's put it in, yeah, I mean, yeah, like you said, his his environment, that wasn't part of his world, you know, it was whatever. And then when it he got out into the wider world and There it was.

00:45:07.82
Mike
And bing. Yeah. You know, I mean, it was, you know, I mean, clearly, yeah i mean, your father was an alcoholic. Admittedly, he said that. um And, you know, I mean, I grew up around booze my entire life um and other things.

00:45:15.72
Bill
Right.

00:45:21.71
Mike
And so that was part of my world and I couldn't fucking wait to get to it. um But, yeah, you know, I think it's it's it's a strong argument for that's the way we are.

00:45:34.47
Mike
We're wired that way. It's chemical. It's it's it's that genetic. It's whatever. We're we're built differently.

00:45:40.86
Bill
Right.

00:45:42.17
Mike
And um once we introduce the substance, whatever that substance is, um we want more. Phenomenon of cravings.

00:45:50.12
Bill
Right.

00:45:50.17
Mike
know, yeah, we we want, we need more. We want more. We need more. we will have more and more. We shall have.

00:46:00.57
Bill
what What was that? We're there for two. We shall have more.

00:46:03.13
Mike
Yes.

00:46:05.24
Bill
Yeah, I know. I hate that fucking word too. yeah Or does these combination things like that. and thats a Yeah, Bill does that every once in a while just to try to prove he's fucking smart. That Bill Wilson.

00:46:15.09
Mike
Right.

00:46:15.48
Bill
I mean, I don't do it much because i don't i' I'd rather not try to use a big word.

00:46:17.75
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:46:19.16
Bill
Every once in a while, a big word pops into my head. I'm like, did I? Did I just use that right? I surprised myself. But so, but that's the reason.

00:46:26.30
Mike
right

00:46:28.12
Bill
And like I said, I was trying to give myself these written clues. ah Usually I could remember and it took me a second, but you know, obviously I did.

00:46:31.26
Mike
if

00:46:34.90
Bill
But, um, and literally I thought about it because of what you said, but I, I mean, for, for myself too, I mean, the first time I ever put any sort of, I mean, alcohol in my body, i mean, I was little, I mean, you know, I had little sips here and there, but the first time I did it physically,

00:46:47.11
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:46:52.92
Bill
that I took a drink. I was, you know, we' were in Cleveland, you know, in Parma, you know, fourth fucking grade.

00:46:56.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:58.00
Bill
I mean, I was, I don't know, seven, six, eight.

00:46:58.70
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:47:02.23
Bill
I don't know how old I was, you know?

00:47:02.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:47:04.73
Bill
So, um, I mean, I can't look back and be like, cause I, I remember the, it's not like I started, started, you know, buzzing up when I was, you know, seven years old. and That was, that was, you know, where I started drinking all the time.

00:47:14.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:16.85
Bill
But, um,

00:47:17.05
Mike
right.

00:47:18.65
Bill
even when, even obviously didn't even search, search it out, but when I did have some alcohol or sips and stuff like that, I remember that, that warmth and that feeling and that, wow, you know, but, um, I don't know, it just kind of, it kind of not threw me off a little bit, but it it made me, you know, kind of think about that.

00:47:25.19
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:47:34.80
Bill
And, Once again, that I know that we talk about, you know, things that are dangerous and what if, and and that wasn't the mindset of it.

00:47:40.64
Mike
Mm

00:47:41.62
Bill
It was just that the more and more we are around this thing, when I hear some of these stories, it does, it sparks a little bit of curiosity.

00:47:46.76
Mike
hmm.

00:47:48.74
Bill
i don't need to dig into, i don't, and I said this again, probably a thousand times.

00:47:49.39
Mike
Sure.

00:47:54.72
Bill
I don't care why i am who I am.

00:47:55.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:47:58.27
Bill
I don't.

00:47:58.58
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:47:59.07
Bill
Um, I, know I know, know I'm an alcoholic. I know what the solution is and I know I'm part of the solution.

00:48:03.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:04.95
Bill
I'm in it. And, and that's all that fucking matters.

00:48:05.72
Mike
Right.

00:48:07.59
Bill
You know, how I got here and I can look at, well, I've got a sister or same environment and, and she's not.

00:48:07.70
Mike
Exactly. Mm-hmm.

00:48:13.59
Bill
And, and this person is, and well, what about, what about, you know, my, my kids?

00:48:14.07
Mike
Right.

00:48:17.79
Bill
And then, oh, but this person, and then there's that person.

00:48:19.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:20.61
Bill
It doesn't fucking matter, you know, but I am who I am, but it just, it's curiosity sometimes when I hear these things.

00:48:21.76
Mike
It doesn't. Right.

00:48:25.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:27.29
Bill
So.

00:48:27.90
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:48:28.98
Bill
So that was that was the point.

00:48:29.44
Mike
But yeah, exactly. i get it. But yeah, exactly. I mean, if one of us puts it in, um yeah, is all bets are off.

00:48:37.24
Bill
yeah

00:48:40.22
Bill
Right.

00:48:40.31
Mike
Yeah. Show's fucking done, man. Or the show's just beginning in the shit show. Right. Right.

00:48:46.20
Bill
Right. So, yeah, it was just like I said, it just I and i think that was on um on Brad's podcast. So um because he gets in into a lot of these these deeper stories like that. And I'm ah not necessarily.

00:48:57.26
Bill
Well, I can't even say that. I listen to him every week because I maybe I still I still do.

00:48:59.74
Mike
okay

00:49:01.26
Bill
I want to need, um you know, it's just part of the thing that I do, whether I need it or not. I do it because it's like you sit in a meeting every week. You know, do you need the meeting?

00:49:08.63
Mike
Yep.

00:49:09.92
Bill
Yeah. You know, you're there to be of service.

00:49:10.10
Mike
No.

00:49:11.86
Bill
I'm not there or to be of service to, you know, to the Sober Motivation podcast.

00:49:12.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:15.74
Bill
But um I do.

00:49:16.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:17.30
Bill
I figure i'm like, i I need I need that. Let's get a little bit little bit of the sobriety story in me and I'm and i'm all good.

00:49:20.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:49:22.74
Bill
So. All right. But gosh, i gosh, Mike, I just looked at the time.

00:49:27.90
Mike
Bill.

00:49:28.95
Bill
gee Gee whiz, Mike, do you think we should take a break?

00:49:31.48
Mike
Well, gosh, I guess we shall. All right. We'll be back with more of whatever the fuck this is right after these words from our sponsors.

00:49:50.81
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Gee whiz willikers, Mike.

00:49:54.41
Mike
yeah yeah that's i that's all i can do sure yes

00:49:59.10
Bill
yeah Yeah, I know. I know. it was It's fun though. It's fun. Once again, new listeners, this is why you listen to us because we're fucking idiots.

00:50:05.37
Mike
sure

00:50:06.94
Bill
So, um, so keep it, this is one from keep it simple.

00:50:07.19
Mike
yes

00:50:11.40
Bill
and This is a new ish one because it's on my, my front sheet, but, um, says today I'll take an inventory of my actions to see if they are those of a sober person. Okay.

00:50:22.23
Bill
So I wrote this down on purpose and kind of that one of those, ah quite honestly, just one of those things that we talk about, but we never really, not never really, have probably haven't talked about this in detail in a while.

00:50:33.10
Mike
Right.

00:50:34.04
Bill
So today I'll take an inventory of my actions to see if they are those of a sober person.

00:50:37.74
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:50:39.32
Bill
The the parentheses that I put in the note for myself to ask you, my friend, was why should that be important to us?

00:50:39.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:46.22
Bill
Yeah. Again, elementary question, right, for you and I, but maybe somebody out there.

00:50:47.00
Mike
yeah right a ha

00:50:51.72
Bill
So why why would we want to um take a look at in an inventory of our actions on a daily basis to see if they are those of a sober person?

00:50:59.61
Mike
Well, because

00:51:00.87
Bill
Yeah.

00:51:04.15
Mike
let's look at the scales, kids. On this side of the scale, I've got four decades of not living like a sober person.

00:51:08.06
Bill
ah yeah

00:51:14.74
Mike
On the other side of the scale, I have 16 years of living like a sober person. um Which one has more weight to it? Which one am I going to default to more easily?

00:51:26.24
Mike
Which one is really the true nature? We've talked about all the time that, the you know, the phrase to thine own self be true. We don't like it all that much because my true self is a raging alcoholic asshole.

00:51:33.63
Bill
Right.

00:51:38.86
Mike
Um, you know, um, I like this person that I am now, but it's not my true self. My true self is laying in a gutter saying, fuck you and throwing my empty bottle at you.

00:51:46.69
Bill
Right.

00:51:52.34
Mike
Um, that's my true self. Uh, so yeah, you know, yes, I need to occasionally take a step back and, and, and, you know, yes, it's, it's,

00:52:04.28
Mike
This 16 years has given me a certain amount of muscle memory. And, um you know, okay, but physical example, right?

00:52:15.32
Mike
You know, um holding a door for someone. um You know, I'm walking into a store and there's somebody who's, let's say seven paces behind me.

00:52:18.29
Bill
Right.

00:52:28.09
Mike
Now, if they were 15 paces behind me, I'd probably keep going, right? Right.

00:52:32.63
Bill
Right.

00:52:32.85
Mike
you know, yeah, you know, 20 paces.

00:52:33.19
Bill
No, I know. Yeah.

00:52:36.28
Mike
Well, fuck, they'll get to the door. I'm not going to stand here for that long. Don't they can open their own guy. I mean, male, female, whatever. i mean, you know, it's an old lady that's a little different, but what whatever.

00:52:46.48
Mike
Um, you know, if there's three paces behind me, I'm absolutely going to stand there and hold the door. Right. Um,

00:52:52.77
Bill
Right.

00:52:55.29
Mike
My old self, my true self, that person three paces behind me, I'm shooting through that door and fucking closing it.

00:53:03.10
Bill
okay

00:53:03.15
Mike
You know, fuck you. I opened the door. You could open the fucking door too for yourself, asshole. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. um

00:53:11.13
Bill
right yeah

00:53:12.29
Mike
That's that's that's my true self. um My sober self. five, six, seven paces behind me. Hold the fucking door for him, asshole. um that's So that's that inventory. I need to look back at the day and go, hey, man, that guy was eight paces behind me. Did I did i stop and pause for, you know, and and burn two seconds of my day to be a polite member of society?

00:53:42.26
Mike
Or was I an asshole and just blow through the door and figure he can get it himself? Um, and that's, that's, that's important. That's important way to live.

00:53:53.26
Mike
Um, did I do that?

00:53:53.80
Bill
sorry.

00:53:54.98
Mike
Now, again, at this point in my life, it's muscle memory and I'm just going to stand there and do it and not even think about it. Um, And again, my my true self, my old self was, hey, that guy's coming up behind me. I'm going to get my ass in this door and make sure it closes behind me. Yeah, yeah. that's so So I have to occasionally take a look because again, 40 years on that scale versus 16 years on that scale. And I need to make sure that I'm, I'm get that 17th year on the scale and it's little bullshit things like that.

00:54:28.87
Bill
Right.

00:54:31.77
Mike
That's going to get me that 17th year.

00:54:34.78
Bill
Yeah. And you know that I laugh at all that because it's, it's really fucking true. I mean, it's ah all, everything that you just said, it just, the, these little subtle things that, um and sometimes it is, it's just subtle.

00:54:42.14
Mike
Hmm.

00:54:47.26
Bill
You know, even if we didn't, you know, come out and literally say to somebody, Hey, you know, fuck you, get the door yourself.

00:54:52.79
Mike
yeah

00:54:53.39
Bill
That is what we were saying by, by not doing it.

00:54:55.29
Mike
Oh yeah.

00:54:57.22
Bill
And, you know, by people, people would see that like, Jesus Christ, you guys, fucking dick, you know?

00:54:57.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:00.27
Mike
Mm-hmm. What a dick. Yeah.

00:55:02.20
Bill
Yeah. What, what a dick, you know, what a dick. So it it reminded me when you talked about that, and i completely forgot about this.

00:55:04.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:07.44
Bill
This could have been, i don't know, a month ago. I don't recall. I think I was in either, either Meyer, probably Meyer.

00:55:10.84
Mike
Mm.

00:55:14.58
Bill
And I'm, and I'm walking through the store and, you know, going down, going down through the, or like the main aisle part.

00:55:14.82
Mike
Mm.

00:55:20.66
Bill
So on the left of me and on the right of me are the aisles where the the items are. Right. Right.

00:55:25.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:26.01
Bill
And i think I, I wasn't, an I know for a fact, it wasn't aisle that I needed to go down, but for whatever reason, I just naturally glanced down this aisle and I saw a lady.

00:55:32.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:37.17
Bill
I don't remember. um I don't remember her age or anything like that. it was just, it was this lady. And I saw her trying to reach up on a top shelf, trying to grab something.

00:55:45.30
Mike
and

00:55:46.07
Bill
So um I'm walking and I saw her and in my head, um i I see it and I'm like, I should, but fuck it, but fuck it.

00:55:49.08
Mike
hey a is he yeah

00:55:55.67
Bill
So I went back and I peeked my head down the aisle.

00:55:57.05
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:58.83
Bill
I said, do you need help? And she's like, do you mind?

00:56:00.27
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:56:01.76
Bill
And I said, not at all.

00:56:02.17
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:56:03.28
Bill
So I said, what do you need? She's like, I just, I just need that. I want that particular one. And it's, you know, it was just too far out of her reach.

00:56:08.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:10.52
Bill
So, I mean, i I stood there and I just, the funny part, this is where I'm like, okay, I'm going to fuck her around with lady a bit.

00:56:10.55
Mike
Right.

00:56:15.05
Bill
So I just, I stood there and looked at her and I just grabbed it and I handed it to her.

00:56:15.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:18.41
Bill
I didn't need, didn't stretch to do anything.

00:56:20.50
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:20.85
Bill
And I said that that's the one you need, right?

00:56:23.76
Mike
Good.

00:56:23.93
Bill
She said, yeah, that is. Thank you very much. I said, do you want another one? I said, I could reach the other, I could reach three more that are further back if you need any of those.

00:56:28.18
Mike
Yeah. Sure. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:56:30.53
Bill
And she's like, no smart ass.

00:56:30.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:32.51
Bill
I'm fine.

00:56:32.73
Mike
good

00:56:33.11
Bill
Yeah. and i And I just laughed and I said, i said okay. I said, i pre you know i said yeah i have i have a great day.

00:56:37.40
Mike
yeah

00:56:39.55
Bill
And she's like, seriously, no, thank you. But I just you know i had a little bit little bit of fun with it too.

00:56:41.08
Mike
business sure

00:56:43.79
Bill
But um you know but seriously, when when i so i out of the corner of my eye, I'm like, like ah, fuck it, man. Fuck it.

00:56:49.88
Mike
yeah ye

00:56:50.42
Bill
you know I'm like, goddammit.

00:56:52.18
Mike
this is

00:56:52.66
Bill
I had to go back and ask. Now, if she would have said no, I would have been, okay, cool.

00:56:54.26
Mike
this is

00:56:56.26
Bill
Have a great day.

00:56:56.50
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:56:56.94
Bill
you know I would have been like, well, fine. Fuck you. i'm asking you why Why did I come?

00:56:59.80
Mike
Yeah, right. You know, I offered and yeah, right. You wasted my goddamn time, bitch. ah

00:57:05.59
Bill
Yeah, because that could be the other thing. Oh, you don't want my help now? Well, fuck you then.

00:57:08.57
Mike
Right.

00:57:11.32
Bill
But I don't know.

00:57:12.18
Mike
But no.

00:57:12.61
Bill
It's just, no.

00:57:12.78
Mike
Yeah, exactly. hmm.

00:57:14.97
Bill
and and you know the the thing of it is and and we talk about it and ah ah again we we do the a thing and it's it's our 10th step and we both do one every night and it's been thankfully every time we talk about this and i i have to think about this every time it's been um it's been a while now it's been a long time there was there was one i mean in the last couple years i i know that i and i had to tell on myself be like you know it came up in a 10th step where i had to I didn't have to, but I did.

00:57:15.06
Mike
Mm

00:57:20.58
Mike
hmm.

00:57:32.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:41.75
Mike
a

00:57:42.20
Bill
Went back to somebody and because I thought I was snippy with this person the day before, and it was in a text message.

00:57:43.83
Mike
okay Right. the

00:57:48.06
Bill
And I apologized, and person's like, no, you didn't do anything. and I'm like like, well, okay, but either way.

00:57:52.31
Mike
Right.

00:57:54.35
Bill
you know And this person's sober.

00:57:54.55
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:57:56.39
Bill
you know So i this this person might have picked up on it or not, but i whatever it is.

00:57:56.83
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:58:00.71
Bill
i Whether I did or didn't have to do it, I had to do it because we we talk about that.

00:58:00.70
Mike
yeah he Yeah, exactly.

00:58:05.12
Bill
Yeah.

00:58:05.59
Mike
Because it was, yeah, it bothered you. You knew you didn't. you Right. Yeah. yeah say Fucking conscious goddamn program.

00:58:11.83
Bill
I know.

00:58:12.15
Mike
um Yeah.

00:58:12.66
Bill
I know.

00:58:13.15
Mike
Right. Yeah. In your head and in in in your inventory, you went, yeah, that was wrong. I got to I got to fix it.

00:58:20.28
Bill
Right.

00:58:21.53
Mike
Fuck. Yeah.

00:58:22.55
Bill
Right. I know.

00:58:23.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:58:23.83
Bill
I know.

00:58:24.44
Mike
hmm. Yeah.

00:58:25.30
Bill
So I, I actually have, I've got like two or three more of these actually things like this than a couple other, just, I don't know, a couple of things that crack me up, but I, I want to, I don't want to gloss over these, these statistics here real quick, this podcast stuff.

00:58:32.02
Mike
na All right. Yeah, yeah.

00:58:37.31
Bill
Um, So, um, and, and quite honestly, every, everyone knows we talk about it. I mean, we're not, we're not a huge podcast. We don't get big numbers.

00:58:44.68
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:58:45.18
Bill
And, um, I just, uh, you get used to seeing a certain number of, of plays and and things like that. When it's, when it's out of the ordinary, it's, it's noticeable, you know, and there was a time when, uh, a couple of years ago when, um, John from, or no, um, Gary or no, was that, was it Gary that was on?

00:58:51.05
Mike
hmm. Mm

00:58:54.39
Mike
hmm.

00:59:02.26
Mike
I don't know. Okay.

00:59:03.99
Bill
Now I can't remember who was on who was on Sober Speak. It might have been Gary. I think it was Gary mentioned us on Sober Speak and we got a big spike.

00:59:11.29
Mike
Right. That's not, it kind of sounds right.

00:59:13.56
Bill
Yeah, I think that's what it was. So we got a huge spike in initial and we actually pulled over some listeners out of that, I think, because our numbers have stayed pretty consistent for whatever it was at that time. it's I think it's stayed consistent since that time frame.

00:59:25.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:26.24
Bill
But it was enough where it was noticeable, you know.

00:59:28.48
Mike
Okay.

00:59:29.24
Bill
So this one was, I pop in a couple of days ago in this this one category on the the stats.

00:59:33.64
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:59:38.51
Bill
And when you open up the homepage for first ah Spotify for Creators, I've got a mobile app and I also have the the main one on the computer. But one of the first things you see on a homepage, you'll see now it's plays and downloads, consumption time, like how many hours people are consuming.

00:59:46.42
Mike
Okay.

00:59:52.95
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:59:53.81
Bill
And then it also talks about, you know, like our ad ad revenue and stuff, which is nothing. So for instance, right now, our ad revenue for July shows, we've we've earned so far an ad revenue.

00:59:58.14
Mike
hey Right.

01:00:02.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:00:03.48
Bill
Get ready, everyone. $2.63. Okay.

01:00:04.47
Mike
All right. Drum roll, please.

01:00:07.37
Bill
Yeah, know.

01:00:08.41
Mike
a

01:00:09.69
Bill
and sixty three cents okay

01:00:11.48
Mike
Woohoo!

01:00:12.50
Bill
yeah i know

01:00:12.54
Mike
Light up that tote board.

01:00:16.41
Bill
But usually for the um Spotify, when they first started, when we first were doing this, it was Anchor and then went to Spotify something and then Spotify for creators.

01:00:24.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:25.81
Bill
And they used to do plays and downloads like they're doing now, which basically as long as somebody listens for at least 30 seconds to a minute, I think that counts as a as a play.

01:00:34.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:37.69
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:00:37.75
Bill
But a stream or a download is if somebody listens to the whole thing, I believe, or up to 80%.

01:00:43.85
Mike
Right. Right, or download is a download. You click the button to, to yeah, save it to your phone or whatever.

01:00:46.49
Bill
Yeah. but

01:00:49.53
Bill
Yeah. Like this.

01:00:50.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:50.65
Bill
Yeah. Like this one says plays and downloads, but it also stream is in here, play, whatever it is, but however they, they do it.

01:00:54.55
Mike
Right.

01:00:56.45
Bill
One is just like a, you know, somebody listened for a little bit. The other one is they, that's where the consumption time comes in, you know, where they listen for, I think, I think it's got to hit 80% before it counts in that, that category.

01:01:02.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:07.22
Bill
Yeah.

01:01:07.42
Mike
All right.

01:01:07.90
Bill
So what they did for a while was is they they cut out the the short plays and they were only giving us the the long plays. So, you know, for instance, we used to get x and then we were getting way low.

01:01:16.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:19.65
Bill
I'm like, well, what the fuck happened? Again, noticeable.

01:01:22.30
Mike
Oh.

01:01:22.52
Bill
But then I read on it and then we got an email it. It's like, OK, they were they're like, these are truer statistics. So this and I'm like, well, it looks like shit is basically what it looks like.

01:01:30.82
Mike
Hehehehe.

01:01:31.70
Bill
You know, and if, if we ever try to do anything, you know, the difference is we look better when it counts everything. Cause at least, at least people are consuming something, you know?

01:01:37.56
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:01:41.24
Bill
So they went back to that recently and not a big deal. Probably last three, four months, whatever it was. So I go in and usually that number for plays and downloads and in a 30 day period, because that's usually where it's defaulted on 30 days, the past 30 days, I would say is maybe five or 600 or something like that, you know, which is, is that a lot we average, you know, we'll average, i mean, total place we could average, you know, a hundred to 200, it could be six, it could be 700, whatever.

01:01:53.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:57.93
Mike
Right.

01:02:05.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:05.78
Bill
Again, we're small, you know, for everyone out there, we're a small podcast.

01:02:07.04
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:02:08.50
Bill
So I go in there the one day and that number reads like 3,100 like,

01:02:14.12
Mike
Oh.

01:02:15.13
Bill
3,100. I like that. That's got to be fucking wrong. Didn't even pay attention to it, you know?

01:02:17.56
Mike
Right. Somebody hit a key wrong.

01:02:20.66
Bill
Well, sometimes it's like ah we'll look at our our plays on an episode um on a weekly basis. Like a new episode will register 11 and then it's 4 the next day. and then it's like Or maybe it's up to 15 and it goes down to whatever. takes Sometimes it takes a little bit to even itself out, so i don't really pay attention to it all that much, you know?

01:02:41.37
Bill
But um so I go in the next day and it's like 5,400. I'm like, what the fuck is this now? And then I start looking and I'm looking at some.

01:02:48.54
Mike
what's all this then?

01:02:49.60
Bill
Yeah. I'm looking at all these things and nothing else is really out of the ordinary, at least not that I saw right away. So again, I'm like, I'm like, okay, I did just a quick search on it. And basically what it, what it was saying to begin with, I think I, I did a Google search, which is Gemini.

01:03:03.50
Bill
That's still AI. And then I think I went in the chat GPT and they said more likely like ah Spotify for creators just did this change.

01:03:04.79
Mike
Hmm.

01:03:11.31
Bill
They could have basically been slowly bringing these plays back in for your older episodes. You got a big catalog. So that might have been why.

01:03:17.82
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:19.31
Bill
And I'm like that that made sense to me.

01:03:19.80
Mike
Okay. Yeah.

01:03:21.31
Bill
Right. So I come in the next day and it's like seventy seven hundred.

01:03:25.59
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:26.33
Bill
And I'm like, okay, what the fuck now? You know, so this was like two days ago.

01:03:29.08
Mike
a

01:03:30.73
Bill
So I start doing, this is when I start doing all the research. Right. And then, um, chat GPT is like, Hey, do you have a report for this?

01:03:33.72
Mike
Right.

01:03:37.37
Bill
So I get this report and that report. So to look at it, all these different things that are still kind of pointing towards, you know, maybe it was, um, again, kind of a catch-up type of thing with, with this.

01:03:46.90
Mike
Hmm.

01:03:47.28
Bill
But then they're like, do you have a day? You have a report that shows the days that it spiked in our days that it spiked were between like July 4th and, um, July, what day is it today?

01:04:00.34
Bill
Today's the 10th between like the 4th and the 8th, I think.

01:04:00.66
Mike
10th.

01:04:03.58
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:04.04
Bill
And it was like, i don't know, it went from, you know, in one in one day, like 600 to 2600 to something to down to 13. And it had this spike and then it came back down.

01:04:15.24
Bill
OK, so this clear spike.

01:04:15.61
Mike
Okay.

01:04:17.53
Bill
But now for our 30 day period, I mean, our listener or our plays and downloads are up by almost a thousand percent. OK, total for 30 days because of the spike.

01:04:24.55
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:27.86
Bill
So back and forth, this and that. And then what I didn't notice right away until yesterday is our normal demographic is the, whatever it is, the 45 to 59, always.

01:04:38.04
Mike
Sure.

01:04:39.17
Bill
You know, it's 50% plus, sometimes even higher than that is that demographic.

01:04:39.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:43.08
Mike
Yeah. Hmm.

01:04:44.53
Bill
Well, we were hitting the demographic of the one right below that, the 30, whatever it is, 34 45 type thing.

01:04:52.73
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:54.04
Bill
And that was at like 50%. Okay.

01:04:56.50
Mike
yeah

01:04:57.14
Bill
And I'm like, okay, so now, and then chat GPT told me that now that's a real number. That's not just a a thing. Now you're getting a demographic. And then I noticed the other thing here is that our, our audience.

01:05:08.72
Bill
Okay. um

01:05:10.24
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:10.81
Bill
Our number one is always United States. It's whatever percentage it is.

01:05:13.14
Mike
Right.

01:05:14.97
Bill
It's showing um Vietnam.

01:05:18.58
Mike
Hmm, okay.

01:05:19.48
Bill
Number one, 19%.

01:05:21.74
Mike
Okay.

01:05:23.03
Bill
Brazil, seven and a half. Bangladesh, five and a half. Colombia, 3.4. Pakistan, 3.3. Blah, blah, blah. So all these different ones. Okay.

01:05:32.18
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:33.14
Bill
So I throw that up there. And then this was just literally that while we were waiting to record tonight. So the bottom line to all this stuff is what what AI is saying. And this this makes sense to me.

01:05:44.78
Bill
They're like, OK, you might have had a spike.

01:05:44.98
Mike
Right.

01:05:46.10
Bill
You might have had this. Somebody might have promoted you. But none of this stuff makes sense because at one point they're like, maybe somebody famous picked up your podcast. But if that were the case, it would be the steady climb and it would there would be a sticking point, not a drop.

01:05:58.06
Bill
Right.

01:05:58.77
Mike
Uh.

01:05:58.97
Bill
Usually, usually. um but what they're saying is more than likely what happened is for whatever reason because then they asked me to look at another thing so where people discover us um um people are discovering us more on their home page on spotify and i mean a huge difference like 800 and some within a certain like seven day period like these 800 impressions on a home page versus what whatever the normal is so Basically, what happened is from what what we're looking at here is that Spotify, for whatever reason, showcased us and showcased this to a different demographic and a different audience.

01:06:36.18
Bill
okay And more than likely said, okay, so if this worked here and then because it' it's lining up with usually if you're if you're hitting, especially in a different country like Vietnam or something like that, it's probably hit the younger audience. And then, oh, the the male part of it, we usually get 60% male. I mean, it, it fucking peaked at like 80% male or something like that, which, you know, again, you talk about some of these other countries like that.

01:06:59.70
Bill
I mean, it seems my, my understanding is the male population is a little bit higher in some of these areas than female population, I think.

01:07:04.28
Mike
Right.

01:07:05.58
Bill
So all of these things line up. Now, what they told us was they said, okay, so here's the, and again, um I say they, as far as our, our AI friend here, right?

01:07:14.33
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:14.94
Bill
Um, keep releasing every Saturday, which I mean, right there, they're like, you're, you're doing anyhow. Again, this is how they know what we're doing. Cause I'm looking at, you know, I, I ask for help every week on our episodes.

01:07:21.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:24.26
Bill
So use titles that clearly communicate the topic without being clickbait. You do our, our titles and our topics are fucking fine. I, I wouldn't even think, I wouldn't want you to change anything cause they're wonderful, you know?

01:07:32.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:35.70
Mike
Right. I wouldn't know how. a

01:07:39.10
Bill
Right. And I mean, why would we do that? Right.

01:07:41.24
Mike
Right.

01:07:42.07
Bill
ah Because that shit works and it's funny and nobody else does what we do. um And it's for, again, new listeners here, my friend Mike over there, with the exception of one episode, I think maybe two where I suggested a title and suggested an image.

01:07:45.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:52.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:55.79
Bill
Other than that, out of the 228 episodes, this is 229.

01:07:55.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:59.59
Bill
Mike does the title every week. Mike does the picture every week. So they're all you do.

01:08:02.54
Mike
right ill mm-hmm yes

01:08:04.59
Bill
Yeah. Um, but it says the first 60 to 90 seconds, give new listeners a reason to stay. If you're new here, blah. So that was the thing with that. And then it said at the end of each episode, um, leave it with a s simple of question.

01:08:17.23
Bill
If this episode helped you follow the show on Spotify so you don't miss next Saturday's episode. Now that can go back to what you did, you know, just like a subscribe, blah, blah, blah, that sort of thing.

01:08:22.30
Mike
hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm

01:08:27.35
Bill
Okay. I mean, I think most people that listen to us obviously know we come on on Saturday. I try to put that in our episode clips and things like that.

01:08:34.21
Mike
hmm.

01:08:34.35
Bill
The pictures about, you know, released on Saturday, any promos we do. Um, but so those are the things are like, just in basically saying that, you know, see how this works out.

01:08:37.82
Mike
Right.

01:08:43.96
Bill
Cause here's the last paragraph. It says, um, It says, i says i have to say something positive here this isn't what i'd expect from a show that's stagnating something caused spotify to expose so we're not mature to a wider audience

01:08:54.00
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:08:58.71
Bill
if this is particular or if this particular wave subsides that's evidence that the algorithm considers you show worth testing the The goal now is to convert as many of those first-time listeners as possible into followers and repeat listeners. That gives the best chance of seeing you know this happen again, larger scale, blah, blah, blah. so But here's the other thing that's kind of interesting. So even though um Spotify showcased us The majority of these plays and downloads and the majority of our audience growth, okay, that, that, because they, what they do is they say all the, the new audience members that listen to something, which quite honestly, that went from, I don't know, like a two, 300, a fucking 5,000.

01:09:39.55
Bill
Okay.

01:09:39.95
Mike
Right.

01:09:40.70
Bill
You know, I mean, huge, fucking huge. So, oh, right.

01:09:43.07
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:09:44.10
Bill
Yeah. Right now it says our audience and it's up, it's up 1,656%.

01:09:48.98
Bill
Okay.

01:09:49.73
Mike
OK.

01:09:50.52
Bill
fifty three hundred Um, but the one report that I looked at, oh, here it is. Um, so in a 30 day period, 104 came from Spotify, from other sources. seven thousand three hundred came from other sources

01:10:04.45
Mike
Hmm.

01:10:05.30
Bill
So, and it was showing, it was showing Chrome, like a, like website listens. So did somehow, some way, a again, people listening to Spotify on, you know, not a mobile app on this.

01:10:09.62
Mike
Right?

01:10:16.31
Bill
i don't, I don't fucking know. Cause I looked at our website.

01:10:17.84
Mike
don't know.

01:10:18.55
Bill
We don't have increases on our website. So people aren't listening there, but whatever it is, it, it seems to be legitimate, not a mistake.

01:10:20.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:25.95
Bill
So somehow somebody promoted us and we got, you know, if nothing else, we flash people for a couple of days.

01:10:26.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:10:32.50
Bill
So.

01:10:33.05
Mike
Cool. Wow. Hey.

01:10:34.08
Bill
Yeah. Hey, so I don't know what that means. But the but the thing of it is, is that, um you know, if it it's it's encouraging, if nothing else, we've never had this type of, you know, spike before, you know, with something like this.

01:10:45.49
Mike
Right.

01:10:46.54
Bill
And, um you know, I mean, yeah, we're doing all this promoting. So does it have anything to do with SANS bar? Does have anything to do with... um I don't know. we're We're doing some different stuff with AI as far as how they produce our our materials and our content.

01:10:59.40
Bill
Only in the fact that I do it for descriptions and I do it for our images, I try to get them optimized for what might play or not play, but show best on social media.

01:11:10.82
Mike
Right.

01:11:10.93
Bill
do Does it work? i don't fucking know. You know, the only other thing that I know for a fact that where we've seen an increase is our daily episode clips um every almost every day with few exceptions.

01:11:13.09
Mike
don't

01:11:22.28
Bill
And this has been since I got some help doing the image and the description on our episode stuff. is we usually get exposure on those clips every day.

01:11:27.78
Mike
cool.

01:11:31.61
Bill
um God, rather than, you know, getting like 30 or 50 plays, we'll get, you know, 200 plus um of basically impressions on those clips where we used to only get 40 50.

01:11:42.86
Bill
So.

01:11:45.53
Mike
cool

01:11:46.26
Bill
But again, I don't know. I mean, what what does all this shit mean? It was just it was impressive and nothing else. And um we did nothing to do it. If we did, um you know we know how to repeat it anyhow, so we can't really change anything.

01:11:59.00
Bill
you know so you know But I don't know.

01:11:59.13
Mike
Exactly.

01:12:01.60
Bill
Statistics are are you know kind of fucked up on on a lot of different ways. But this this one just kind of intrigued me, so I obviously wanted to share it with you. so So you and everyone else, that's all. You want to know anything else about statistics? I don't think so.

01:12:14.68
Bill
yeah

01:12:14.64
Mike
Math.

01:12:16.12
Bill
All right. So a couple of things. So we, when I mentioned before that I, you know, cause you know, I do the, the hate listening on the stupid fucking episode clips. Well, the one that I usually hate listen on there on summer break, of course, so I can't hate listening to their clips, but there was a, there was a post and to begin with.

01:12:26.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:31.03
Mike
and hey

01:12:34.11
Bill
So I, I'll be honest. ah And I may have been one of those things that, what do we call it before? um Shit. Why can't I think it something before whatever? ah judging something before.

01:12:48.25
Mike
ah Oh, contempt with, without yeah.

01:12:51.19
Bill
oh my God.

01:12:52.06
Mike
yeah

01:12:52.82
Bill
Where the fuck is my brain? I didn't even have a goddamn long day. contempt prior Contempt prior to investigation.

01:12:56.12
Mike
Right. Yes.

01:13:00.92
Bill
There you go. New listeners, we can't think of simple sayings that

01:13:02.14
Mike
Right. Simple phrase out of the big book.

01:13:06.52
Bill
yeah you

01:13:06.55
Mike
Hi, we're sober. What?

01:13:08.85
Bill
yeah Yeah, if nothing else, you could experience what it's like for a 57 and 59-year-old man to basically have a stroke while they're trying to talk on ah on a podcast.

01:13:08.99
Mike
Okay.

01:13:15.19
Mike
this is

01:13:18.63
Bill
Wait, what did I just say? What?

01:13:19.86
Mike
what

01:13:21.69
Bill
Okay, so when I first read this, I wanted to make fun of it, but then the more I thought about it I'm like, I'm going to read this to you. And then this was one of my hate readings to begin with.

01:13:30.30
Mike
okay

01:13:31.16
Bill
But I think there might be a point to it. So I want you to be the judge of that, number one, and then see if there might be any, any I don't know, input to it.

01:13:35.80
Mike
Okay.

01:13:39.66
Bill
So um the reading said, or the the post said, one of the hardest parts of living without alcohol is learning how to deal with stress. Am I right? So that was the part that I just said, am I right?

01:13:49.68
Mike
Am I right?

01:13:53.30
Mike
you are right

01:13:53.40
Bill
You know what it reminded me of? Sam Kinison from back to school. Is she right?

01:13:58.01
Mike
yeah

01:13:58.49
Bill
Is she right? Um, but it said, uh, when I quit drinking, I was left, high and dry. Uh, the stress was still there and I had no way to deal with it.

01:14:05.76
Mike
mm-hmm yeah

01:14:08.82
Bill
Okay. So to begin with, again, kind of hate read that. And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? But, um, then I thought about it again and I read it again.

01:14:13.95
Mike
hey hmm

01:14:16.22
Bill
So I'm like one way or the are going to keep either. We can do one of two things. We can make fun of it or there might be something, there might be something here.

01:14:19.93
Mike
yeah a

01:14:22.68
Bill
So once again, one of the hardest parts of living without alcohol is learning how to deal with stress. when I quit drinking or when, let's just say when we quit drinking, um, we were left, uh, well, the stress was still there with no, with no way to deal with it.

01:14:36.09
Mike
well

01:14:38.02
Bill
So how do you, how do you feel about that? Is that, is that valid or is that just something that's like, I don't know. It doesn't make any sense.

01:14:44.12
Mike
Well, ah no, it's valid up until no way to deal with it.

01:14:48.76
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:14:49.40
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, clearly. Right. Yeah. You have to. Yes. You stop drinking. It's still stressful. Yes. You need to get there's yeah have to learn how to deal with it. Um,

01:15:03.99
Mike
But you have to learn. And hey, guess what? If you're in you know in a program or you support and doing and blah, blah, blah, you do. There is a way to deal with it. you You fucking learn how to deal with it from people who have already dealt with it.

01:15:19.14
Mike
Duh. Sure. You're right.

01:15:22.39
Bill
Okay, so that is, i swear, i swear, I swear, I swear on whatever it is that I want to swear on.

01:15:25.94
Mike
disease

01:15:28.71
Bill
That is 100% exactly what I thought, okay?

01:15:28.79
Mike
sure

01:15:33.40
Bill
Because I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about that you don't have a way to deal with it?

01:15:33.46
Mike
you're right Uh-huh.

01:15:37.16
Bill
i your Your exact words are what when came out of my mouth.

01:15:37.18
Mike
Right.

01:15:41.34
Bill
i I understand that, yes. When you quit drinking, the stress is there.

01:15:42.81
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:15:45.06
Bill
you know You're left high and dry.

01:15:45.21
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

01:15:47.14
Bill
Eh, okay. That's a little dramatic. But then the stress was still there.

01:15:49.46
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:15:51.18
Bill
And wait a second. you don't know how to deal with it. Well, what are you fucking doing? That's the point now.

01:15:56.73
Mike
Well, yeah. Well, the point, yeah.

01:15:57.78
Bill
hey

01:15:58.69
Mike
Yeah. You don't know how to fucking deal with it. No shit, asswipe.

01:16:02.81
Bill
Right.

01:16:02.77
Mike
um And then what? Yeah. Yeah. You don't know. So you go to someone who does know how to deal with it.

01:16:12.41
Bill
Right.

01:16:13.38
Mike
Oh, good Lord.

01:16:14.78
Bill
Yeah. So again, I mean, yeah.

01:16:15.26
Mike
and this comes from what? Somebody who's in sobriety, who supposedly is working some sort of a program.

01:16:19.93
Bill
Yeah.

01:16:24.44
Bill
Almost it's at least four, if not five years sober.

01:16:24.41
Mike
All right.

01:16:28.38
Mike
Okay, then. Well, all right.

01:16:33.38
Bill
That's it it what, once again, that is why to to begin with. and And I wish that's why I wanted to, I want to give you the background. I want to tell you that this is how I read it, but I didn't want to tell you the part that I, that I was thinking, but you 100% had, I could have I could have said, i could have given you a script to read exactly what came out of my mouth in the, in the exact words that had no way to deal with it.

01:16:41.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:44.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:50.74
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:16:55.28
Bill
What?

01:16:55.54
Mike
Right.

01:16:56.11
Bill
Right. Okay. So I wasn't completely off my rocker. So I just wanted to, okay.

01:17:00.22
Mike
No, absolutely not.

01:17:02.62
Bill
All right. So yeah, I mean, day one or two day seven, possibly day nine or 10.

01:17:05.46
Mike
Sure. a

01:17:08.11
Bill
guess that, that would be that. But when you're, when you've been around this thing for a minute, okay.

01:17:09.72
Mike
um even even even goddamn day nine um you know yeah you you just yes you have the stress yes you don't know how to fucking deal with it um but you should at day nine um hopefully you've been to a meeting you've talked to someone you did jesus christ yeah have fun with that

01:17:14.94
Bill
Okay.

01:17:30.88
Bill
Right.

01:17:34.65
Bill
Okay. And that's, that's exactly what I was thinking. Okay. So, so once again, yeah, we were this, that's the whole point.

01:17:38.04
Mike
nice

01:17:40.81
Bill
All of this stuff. Like we talk about life and life's terms, everything coming at us, everything we talked about earlier, you have a, you have a program of recovery that you should be using to deal with these things, leaning on people, asking for help.

01:17:43.67
Mike
m Yeah.

01:17:49.16
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yep.

01:17:52.97
Bill
Everything we talked about at the beginning with the reading that you had, you know, so, okay.

01:17:53.80
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:17:56.34
Bill
Okay. So I wasn't, again, not completely off my rocker.

01:17:58.14
Mike
No, absolutely not.

01:17:59.30
Bill
Good. Okay. All right. Then I'm going to continue to hate read because that was ah that was a topic that, let's listen to you.

01:18:04.38
Mike
Yes. That was yeah good.

01:18:07.29
Bill
Yes.

01:18:07.58
Mike
Yes, group please do. cause yeah I'm sure as hell not going to go look at that crap, but you go ahead and continue to do it and bring it to this podcast so we can fucking make fun of them.

01:18:13.20
Bill
Right.

01:18:17.66
Bill
And I, it's, it's so, I mean, okay, it's, it's giving us material, but every time I, every time I land on one of these, you know, the, these clips or these posts, I'm like, why am I, well, that's why, because when I read it, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ.

01:18:22.46
Mike
Right.

01:18:25.34
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:18:30.36
Mike
ahha

01:18:31.92
Bill
But anyhow, anyhow.

01:18:32.02
Mike
right this

01:18:33.78
Bill
So this is from Touchstones, a book that you're reading might recently, Mr.

01:18:37.59
Mike
yes hmm

01:18:38.23
Bill
Mike. um It was talking about boundaries. So here's my question. How long do you think it took, you know, this this round of sobriety? Like we came into the Keating Center back in in April of 2010.

01:18:48.88
Mike
hmm

01:18:50.72
Bill
How long do you think it took when you got um or when you started to consider... I don't know, healthy boundaries or building healthy boundaries. And I mean, on like both ends, whether it's with people or even boundaries for yourself. And i don't know, just in general, how how early or how quickly do you think that you set up boundaries on any side or in any way for yourself?

01:19:12.62
Mike
Um, I mean, let's see. i have two words for you. Well, it's a compound word, maybe one word.

01:19:20.28
Bill
it

01:19:20.76
Mike
Bunk bed.

01:19:21.78
Bill
Yeah, there you go.

01:19:25.02
Mike
Um, yeah, no, you did at the Keating Center, right? Yes. Um, you know, and and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. And and I'm sure some of them weren't.

01:19:36.15
Mike
as healthy as they certainly got. But yeah, no, fucking A man right away. You're you're in a in a room with 50 other guys. you know Yes, you start you start work working some boundaries out for yourself.

01:19:47.37
Bill
Right.

01:19:51.25
Mike
And and and like you said, you know and and boundaries for myself. um you know, for other people, you know, right. You know, you're right next to some other asshole who's just as confused and angry and upset and sad and, you know, as you are.

01:20:08.97
Mike
And um yeah, you know, he um you learn. maybe don't open your mouth and start dumping everything out. Um, you know, cause he's going through it too.

01:20:20.70
Mike
Maybe you you think about him. It's not all about you at that point, you know? So yeah, that's a boundary. You know, I'm not going to dump my shit on this guy that probably needs to dump his shit on me and I don't want his shit and he doesn't want my shit.

01:20:35.31
Mike
So let's not dump our shit on each other. Let's, let's, uh, Let's try to maybe help each other walk down to the dining room and get a piece of cold chicken and a stale donut.

01:20:45.14
Bill
Right.

01:20:49.60
Bill
Right.

01:20:52.60
Mike
Yeah. You know, so it right away, um again, probably not the healthiest and and probably not the best way to do it, but God, yeah, fucking probably day two, man. Yes. Setting up boundaries, not allowing others to do things to me that I that i don't deserve and um not doing things to other people that they don't deserve.

01:21:16.31
Mike
So, yeah, you know, probably...

01:21:16.41
Bill
Right.

01:21:19.16
Mike
right away, man, starting to try to work those things out. Absolutely. You know, and, and still try to work those things out to a certain extent. Um, you know, just got a little better at some of them and some of them are, and some of them are pretty fucking strong. Now those boundaries, you know, yeah.

01:21:38.01
Mike
Which is nice.

01:21:38.10
Bill
Right. Yeah. if you know, I didn't even, I i didn't even consider that I didn't even think about that, you know, that early, but yeah, I mean, yeah you, we, we had to, I mean, we had to with, you know, where, where our stuff goes.

01:21:48.44
Mike
yeah Yeah.

01:21:53.26
Bill
I mean, we're sharing just as simple as that.

01:21:53.69
Mike
instance yeah

01:21:55.10
Bill
I mean, anything, you know, okay. Do we, do we have a, do we have a dresser? Are we sharing a dresser?

01:21:59.51
Mike
you see

01:22:00.30
Bill
Do we have, you know, what's your space? What's my space?

01:22:02.62
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:03.34
Bill
Um, yeah, yeah.

01:22:03.32
Mike
Yeah. My drawer, your drawer. Yeah.

01:22:05.76
Bill
Exactly. Yeah.

01:22:06.49
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:06.76
Bill
And then, um you know, I, I don't know, which, what side of the bed do I get out of? Because i know you get down on this side.

01:22:11.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:12.76
Bill
You know, you don't, I don't want you to step on me and I don't, I don't want to, you know, make you, I want you to fall out of the bed.

01:22:12.85
Mike
Right. Yeah, i don't want to step on you.

01:22:18.42
Bill
You know, um I, I, God, I never, the shower.

01:22:18.65
Mike
Yeah, right? ah Yeah, okay.

01:22:22.08
Bill
I mean, just, I mean, not take.

01:22:23.20
Mike
Well, hey.

01:22:25.21
Bill
Well, I'm just saying not not hogging, not taking a you know a fucking 40-minute shower you know or hogging the entire sink.

01:22:28.12
Mike
I know. Right? Mm-hmm.

01:22:31.92
Bill
or Whatever the case is, you had to you had to accommodate the fact that there were 30 or 40 other fucking guys or 40, 50, whatever guys in there.

01:22:33.14
Mike
Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right. And also not let them step over you. Right.

01:22:41.59
Bill
Right.

01:22:41.77
Mike
You know, because because they're a fucking junkie and alcoholic, just like you are. And and they're going to try. And some of them are going to try harder than other ones because the other ones are, you know, trying not to.

01:22:49.19
Bill
Right.

01:22:54.18
Mike
And at the same time that you're trying not to. And yeah, fucking A, man. Straight up. from Day one. Setting some boundaries up, you know, that work both ways. Absolutely.

01:23:04.77
Bill
Right.

01:23:05.29
Mike
Yep.

01:23:06.90
Bill
Yeah, and what what a good point, too, that you're still working on them these days. But, I mean, there there are there are things that i I don't have a problem, you know, any any anymore. not Not that I don't have a problem.

01:23:16.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:17.05
Bill
For the most part, I don't have a problem, um you know, living within the boundaries, whatever the boundaries that I've set for myself.

01:23:22.72
Mike
yep

01:23:23.37
Bill
And I can't even think of it.

01:23:23.64
Mike
says

01:23:24.53
Bill
But I i don't walk in. And it's still to this day. And I'm not faulting people for being nervous about it. The one that gets me all the time is when people talk about – um Even if they've had a number of years of sobriety, you know, getting into ah a public a public area and like, well, what do I say if somebody asks you, you know, it offers me a drink or whatever?

01:23:37.97
Mike
okay

01:23:43.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:44.25
Bill
i I haven't understood that problem in fucking years, you know, because I listened to what other people said.

01:23:47.30
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-mm.

01:23:52.38
Bill
And um ah the the easiest thing that to begin with when I said, do you want something to drink?

01:23:52.48
Mike
Yep.

01:23:57.55
Bill
No, I'm good.

01:23:58.65
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:23:59.41
Bill
That's it. That's all that I ever said.

01:24:00.12
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:00.93
Bill
i didn't i didn't try to explain myself. People were never like, well, why don't you want something to drink?

01:24:03.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:06.49
Bill
I've never had, I can't say never, maybe.

01:24:06.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right. it

01:24:09.28
Bill
Maybe I had the follow-up question twice in 16 and a half years or 16 years in a couple of months.

01:24:09.66
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:12.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because they don't fucking care that much.

01:24:15.77
Bill
They don't.

01:24:15.87
Mike
They're being polite.

01:24:16.21
Bill
Nobody fucking.

01:24:16.63
Mike
Yeah, they're being polite. They really don't give a fuck if you have something to drink or not.

01:24:20.93
Bill
Right? Yeah.

01:24:21.30
Mike
Yeah, yeah. You know, they're being polite. You want something to drink? No, thanks. Okay, bye. I did my job. You know, I offered you a drink.

01:24:26.83
Bill
Yeah.

01:24:27.74
Mike
You said no? Cool. Off we go. Right.

01:24:29.85
Bill
Yeah. Or, know, do you want something to drink? Yeah. would do you have a Do you have water or coffee?

01:24:33.24
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:24:33.61
Bill
Oh, is that is that all you need? You know, you you don't want a drink?

01:24:35.53
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:36.74
Bill
Oh, yeah. Just, yeah. Just water or coffee.

01:24:38.46
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:24:38.71
Bill
Like, ah okay. There.

01:24:39.64
Mike
Right.

01:24:39.78
Bill
It's right over there.

01:24:40.00
Mike
Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Go get it.

01:24:43.00
Bill
Yeah. Because, again, like you like you said, nobody fucking cares. Nobody.

01:24:45.75
Mike
No, nobody really cares that much.

01:24:46.12
Bill
no they They don't care.

01:24:47.46
Mike
Right. You know, and I'm sitting on here, you know, and my answer is, you know, no, you don't have enough.

01:24:52.76
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:24:53.27
Mike
Yeah, which is, you know, ah because I like to play, you know, I have always been more open than you and I don't give a shit. You know, you want you want a beer?

01:25:02.40
Bill
right

01:25:03.82
Mike
No, you don't have enough.

01:25:05.52
Bill
right

01:25:05.53
Mike
And they'll look at you all funky and you go, yeah, that's right. You know, and if they press me, I'll tell them, you know, what exactly I meant. No, i' I'm an alcoholic, man. You don't have a fucking enough.

01:25:17.62
Mike
and And hopefully, and yes, i'm i'm I'm being a little cheeky and whatever, but also I want them to think about it.

01:25:28.66
Mike
I do. and And that answer does, they don't have to, but hopefully it does make them think about it a little bit. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay. Maybe, maybe, is there enough here?

01:25:41.88
Bill
Right?

01:25:42.28
Mike
Yeah, you know, it's the smallest of seed, but I like i like spreading my seed.

01:25:50.17
Bill
Yeah. yeah Yes, you you do, don't you?

01:25:53.34
Mike
i do.

01:25:54.81
Bill
Well, and here's the other thing, and I've said it on here over the last couple of years, and um I have no issue whatsoever with um the way the society is and how tiptoe people are around things and stuff like that.

01:26:02.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:26:05.29
Bill
I think that a very, and I'm going to say a very large percentage of the changes that have been made in society are not bad.

01:26:05.23
Mike
Right.

01:26:11.45
Bill
um We don't necessarily have to have to say rude things or people don't need to be racist.

01:26:11.70
Mike
Right.

01:26:16.88
Bill
That that needed to change for years. You know so people don't need to say those things.

01:26:18.84
Mike
Of course.

01:26:20.80
Bill
People need to act that way. People don't need to be mean and cruel to people in public. You know, do I think that certain things are are being exploded? Sure. But that's a whole nother topic. Okay. But here's where I think it benefits me.

01:26:29.38
Mike
Right.

01:26:32.31
Bill
And that's what's most important.

01:26:33.46
Mike
Of course. Right.

01:26:34.42
Bill
is the fact that everyone out there is too much of a fucking pussy to say anything anyhow. You know, nobody fucking, first of all, nobody cares.

01:26:39.93
Mike
Right.

01:26:43.23
Bill
But the second thing is nobody's going to shame anyone anymore because there are people in pussies these days.

01:26:43.26
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:26:50.06
Bill
And, you know, every everything people are looking at, well, I don't, i' that's that's this shaming, that's that shaming, that's age, that's whatever.

01:26:50.23
Mike
Right.

01:26:57.20
Mike
Ah, well, and that's, yeah, well, and that's, a again, a larger issue.

01:26:57.42
Bill
You know, and and maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but, you know, but...

01:27:04.40
Mike
um Maybe there needs to be a little more shame in our society.

01:27:07.96
Bill
yeah

01:27:08.11
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:09.43
Bill
Well, in and that's, and again, i i understand 100%, and I'm not saying that I that i disagree, but the the beautiful part is is that that's the only time that i that I think about that where I could use it to my advantage is the fact that, you know, I don't always could say anything anyhow.

01:27:20.70
Mike
hey

01:27:24.39
Bill
You know, I mean, I'm ah ah i'm an old man.

01:27:24.57
Mike
Right.

01:27:27.03
Bill
Nobody's going fucking age shame me. If I if i you know go up and I'm wearing something weird or my ass got fat or whatever the case is, or or I go up and I'm not fitting whatever the norm of society is, nobody's going to try to fucking make fun of me because that people are afraid to.

01:27:41.59
Mike
Right.

01:27:43.33
Bill
You know, I'm fine with it.

01:27:43.61
Mike
Exactly. Yeah, whatever.

01:27:44.31
Bill
I'm going to give a fuck.

01:27:44.97
Mike
Right. You know, and and ah speaking of shame, I don't know. I would be ashamed to walk into a grocery store or God forbid an airplane with fucking pajama pants on.

01:27:56.35
Mike
But apparently that's but but there's no shame in that anymore.

01:27:56.57
Bill
Well, gay yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:28:00.91
Mike
Okay, well, and that's my point. Maybe there needs to be a little more shame in our society because, you know, put on a fucking real pair of pants, you know.

01:28:09.66
Bill
Right.

01:28:09.93
Mike
But again, you know, I see the Skechers commercials on TV, right? ah You don't have to bend over and tie your shoe anymore. You could just slip into it.

01:28:20.87
Mike
Is it fucking like, know, bend over and tie your fucking shoe.

01:28:21.43
Bill
Right.

01:28:23.63
Mike
Jesus Christ, what are you, three? Fuck, man.

01:28:27.80
Bill
hey Now, i I have shoes, ah my black pair of Converse, and actually even my um the the shoes that I wear for hiking, because I wear those out a lot now, because I'm walking and fucking everywhere now.

01:28:40.46
Bill
So I i i wear them more than ah than I do my Converse anymore. But those if i'm if I'm not on a trail where I need the support, um I've got them tied to the point where I can slip them on and off.

01:28:44.09
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:28:50.02
Bill
But it's not because i I don't bend down.

01:28:50.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:28:52.70
Bill
They're just more comfortable that way.

01:28:53.98
Mike
Yeah, all right.

01:28:54.26
Bill
You know, but I still, I sit down and i I pull my shoe up and I just don't, I don't tie them up really tight because I don't need to, you know, but the Skechers, yeah, ah in, they sell, well, they've got this big screen in, in Meyer.

01:28:59.83
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:06.27
Bill
There's a whole shoe section there and that's all they're running the commercials on this TV all the time for Skechers.

01:29:07.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:10.97
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:12.59
Bill
Yeah. You could just slip into it. Yeah. It's like, okay. Yeah.

01:29:15.24
Mike
Don't have to tie your shoes.

01:29:15.43
Bill
You could.

01:29:16.32
Mike
You don't have to put on real pants.

01:29:16.80
Bill
Yeah.

01:29:18.00
Mike
You don't have to... Jesus God, man. Fuck it, eh?

01:29:20.53
Bill
Yeah. Lazy. You could be a, you could be a lazy fucking fat ass.

01:29:24.42
Mike
That's right. You don't have to bend over anymore.

01:29:26.10
Bill
Yeah.

01:29:27.66
Mike
where Maybe I should fucking bend over once in a while.

01:29:27.99
Bill
fifty

01:29:31.83
Bill
you know You know, it's funny, it just made me think about it. is the ah um It was on a, again, in the last month or so, and I remember what whether it was Tinder or Bumble or one of these fucking dating apps.

01:29:42.54
Bill
um this This one individual on there, i just I was laughing.

01:29:42.54
Mike
Well...

01:29:46.62
Bill
I was just hoping for for a minute there, i was hoping she would match with me just because I wanted to hear the kind of the background of it. It's just that she put on there, she's like, I will not go hiking with you.

01:29:57.26
Bill
I will not go camping with you. I literally consider both of those forms of punishment.

01:30:01.82
Mike
Nice. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:30:03.22
Bill
And I'm like, i don't i don't fucking disagree. I don't care.

01:30:06.30
Mike
<unk>

01:30:06.44
Bill
you know i mean, I've got a friend of mine that that I've known, you know a high school friend of mine that I chit-chat with every once in a while.

01:30:10.78
Mike
yeah

01:30:12.16
Bill
And she's she's a wonderful person. I literally, I love her to death.

01:30:14.33
Mike
is

01:30:15.92
Bill
And we were talking about something.

01:30:16.06
Mike
right

01:30:17.84
Bill
she's like She's like, I will never, and I haven't seen her literally in years, okay?

01:30:21.78
Mike
yeah

01:30:22.08
Bill
But she said, if you're ever up here, we ever hang out, she says, I will never go hiking with you. And I said, I said, really? I said, well, wasn't going ask you, but I said, why? She's like, i' have no desire to fucking walk around in the woods.

01:30:32.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:33.61
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like, i okay.

01:30:33.59
Mike
Right.

01:30:35.45
Bill
I mean, I'm not going to try to convince you, you know?

01:30:35.90
Mike
Yeah. here

01:30:38.54
Bill
I mean,

01:30:38.65
Mike
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's, well, that's my line for camping. If I want to go lay in the dirt, I'll stop fucking paying my mortgage and start drinking again.

01:30:46.20
Bill
Right. You know, and there was, and we did, we did camping for years when I was a kid.

01:30:46.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:50.80
Bill
I have great memories of it. um It was never a bad thing, but I, at this age, I don't want to lay on, on even an air mattress. I don't even like sleeping on an air mattress when I'm at like Kimmy and Ryan's anymore.

01:31:00.15
Mike
Right. Right. Uh-huh.

01:31:02.64
Bill
it's just, it's, it's not. It's just not my, i'm I'm getting to the point where I just need a more comfortable, a couple more years and I think I can, I can use the age card and just be like, you know, yeah, grandpa can't sleep in a fucking air mattress anymore.

01:31:14.62
Mike
Right.

01:31:15.12
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:31:15.98
Bill
You need to give up your bed there, grandson, or somebody has got to give up a goddamn bed for me, you know?

01:31:19.14
Mike
Yeah, exactly. You go lay on the floor for a night.

01:31:22.68
Bill
Yeah.

01:31:23.16
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:31:23.32
Bill
Yeah, I can't. It's I had trouble getting up off an air mattress, guy they have you know let alone i how my back feels.

01:31:27.14
Mike
aha

01:31:29.24
Bill
But I just all of that's exactly.

01:31:29.21
Mike
Right. But I'll still tie my shoes.

01:31:32.89
Bill
But, you know, the the thing of it is, um I you know why I go hiking. I i like it it. I did it for the a little bit for the exercise to begin with, but more so because I wanted to see some shit.

01:31:38.32
Mike
Right.

01:31:41.27
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:43.56
Bill
And I've seen some things and it blows my fucking mind to things that I've seen.

01:31:43.61
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:47.32
Bill
But like you, for instance, I don't think you want to go on a hiking trail with me.

01:31:47.64
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:51.54
Mike
No.

01:31:52.18
Bill
And I've never fucking asked you, you know, and if you wanted to go, I know you would invite yourself and I'd be like, really?

01:31:53.56
Mike
Right.

01:31:57.53
Mike
Oh, yes. Yeah.

01:32:00.38
Bill
I would be surprised, you know, but if you want to go and look at fine, you know, and i saw this.

01:32:01.88
Mike
Yes.

01:32:06.18
Bill
So there's a, there's a commercial out about that now too. It's like, it's like, do you, I know, you know, going out and hiking, you know, being in nature, you know, but but do I really want to walk a mile up a hill to go see something?

01:32:16.30
Bill
No, I'd rather do this. It was still an exercise thing.

01:32:18.08
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:32:18.94
Bill
The person just didn't want to be out in nature. And I'm like, I don't want to stand in it.

01:32:21.04
Mike
Right.

01:32:23.00
Bill
I don't want to sit in a fucking gym and look at a goddamn TV screen.

01:32:24.60
Mike
Right.

01:32:26.26
Bill
You know, that does not excite me.

01:32:26.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:28.50
Bill
That does do, does nothing for me.

01:32:28.57
Mike
Right.

01:32:30.42
Bill
I'd rather, if I'm going to get some extras, I want to look, Hey, yeah, I want to walk up a fucking Hill and we'll go see something.

01:32:30.49
Mike
it

01:32:33.30
Mike
Right.

01:32:36.70
Bill
But that's my thing. I'm not going to try to, again, I don't even know how I got on this fucking tangent, but um but anyhow, the dating app thing was fucking perfect.

01:32:38.39
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:44.34
Bill
You know i just wanted to match with be like, just to tell her that's a great fucking line.

01:32:44.69
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:48.58
Bill
um I don't camp anymore, but I used to, I loved it. Don't do it anymore, but I do hike. Fucking love it to death, but I love your statements.

01:32:56.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:56.57
Bill
Consider it a form of goddamn punishment. Okay. Real, real, real quick here. ah Terry Bradshaw, that and this is a more recent episode. He's on Joe Rogan. And I i don't know, Terry Bradshaw, he he's kind of a bumbling idiot, blah, blah, blah.

01:33:09.34
Bill
But I figured let's just pop in here and see what Terry has to say.

01:33:09.64
Mike
Sure.

01:33:12.50
Bill
Interesting guy. Number one, he's got, did you know he's got his own bourbon line?

01:33:16.22
Mike
I did not.

01:33:17.18
Bill
I had no idea. And it's Kentucky.

01:33:18.33
Mike
Not in the market anymore.

01:33:19.96
Bill
No, I know. But, you know, every once in a while, again, the things that you and I hear um every once in a while, you know, whatever.

01:33:24.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:33:25.96
Bill
So, I mean, he's got it. It's Terry Bradshaw bourbon, blah, blah, blah. So they had some of that there. It just I'm like, God, really? So anyhow, but he's talking about being, you know, back in his playing days. Now, he started playing professionally in 1970.

01:33:37.89
Bill
I didn't know. I knew he was on, you know, Steelers in the 70s, but I didn't know when he started. So this was back in the time, of course, as a quarterback, they could still get, you know, fucking it crushed and killed and all those sort of things, you know, all the players out there.

01:33:49.04
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:50.73
Bill
But I mean, quarterbacks were still up for grabs, you know, but they were still expected to, you know, be on the field and fucking play, you know.

01:33:53.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:33:57.91
Mike
Right.

01:33:58.16
Bill
So he was he was talking about that, and he's like, ah you know so Rogan's asking him a couple of these questions, and he goes, no, you were expected to play.

01:33:58.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:04.60
Bill
He goes, you not just played through the the pain.

01:34:05.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:07.02
Bill
He goes, you played through, you know i mean, severe injuries. So he said that this one time, he pulled um he pulled one of, or no, I'm sorry, not pulled, tore, okay?

01:34:09.88
Mike
Right.

01:34:18.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:19.13
Bill
Fucking tore one of his stomach muscles, okay?

01:34:21.08
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:21.78
Bill
And what they would do, he's like, he goes, well, he goes, they'd shoot me up before the game. He goes, they'd shoot me up at halftime.

01:34:25.81
Mike
Yep.

01:34:27.38
Bill
He goes, and Joe's like, what, what did they shoot you up with? And he goes, I don't know stuff.

01:34:31.67
Mike
I don't know. Yeah, right.

01:34:33.30
Bill
And Rogan couldn't stop laughing. He's like stuff. And Terry's like, seriously, he goes, I have no idea what they shot us up with stuff.

01:34:38.17
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right.

01:34:42.71
Bill
if it

01:34:42.65
Mike
Yeah. North Dallas 40, man. You know, it's the shots and the pills that are going get you through the day, son.

01:34:48.60
Bill
I know it just, and again, I know all this stuff, but literally even to this day, he has no fucking idea what what they gave him.

01:34:55.32
Mike
my

01:34:55.64
Bill
And his answer was just, i don't know. He goes, stuff. He goes, we had, he goes, we all, he goes, literally, he goes, we'd stand in line. he goes He goes, there might, there might be, you know, 24 guys standing in line you go every, every week.

01:35:06.42
Bill
And, you know, at halftime, they're going around. He goes, every one of us is getting shot up at Rogan's like with stuff. He goes, yep. Stuff.

01:35:12.84
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:14.13
Bill
He goes, they expected us to play it. He goes, we did too. And I'm just like, it just fucking made me laugh. But I don't know.

01:35:19.45
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:19.85
Bill
Anyhow.

01:35:20.18
Mike
Right. Halftime. They got a cigarette one hand and a beer in the other and they're getting a shot in the ass of stuff.

01:35:22.55
Bill
he

01:35:25.62
Bill
Yeah, but i I don't know. It's just the – I know things have changed and I know how things are are these days and stuff like that. But, man, it just – it made me laugh.

01:35:32.51
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Slip-on shoes and pajama pants.

01:35:35.61
Bill
Yeah, and, you know, quarterbacks that you can't you can't even look at wrong without getting a penalty, let alone let alone hit them.

01:35:39.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:35:42.97
Bill
But, yeah, and he's like 70 –

01:35:45.82
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:47.35
Bill
77, 78, something like that.

01:35:48.25
Mike
Yeah. Sounds about right. Yep.

01:35:49.88
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, he's, he's had his, he's had his, you know, some health issues and scares and he went through cancer and whatever it was, but, um, dude still got his fucking faculties, man, getting the shit beat out of them, you know, like that for, for all these fucking years.

01:35:58.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:36:01.02
Bill
And, uh, I was just, I don't know, still got his faculties, but, uh, anyhow.

01:36:05.14
Mike
this

01:36:05.54
Bill
So I just thought it was funny stuff, but yeah all right.

01:36:07.77
Mike
stuff

01:36:09.36
Bill
on On that note, what do you, what do you say?

01:36:10.65
Mike
oo um

01:36:11.78
Bill
We wrap this stuff up, huh? ah hey Anyone? Anyone?

01:36:19.01
Mike
all right well thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of sober not mature always be kind to each other be good to each other go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and Don't tell anybody you did it. And you know, on that note, do something nice for us and give us a five-star rating, smash that like button and all that other garbage, because apparently we're supposed to say that shit now. And now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally,

01:36:57.18
Mike
Fuck you. Now it is that time. you know what? You have no fucking idea. it is that time. it is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:37:19.74
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

01:37:29.02
Bill
And if nothing else, that's why you should listen to us because nobody out there is closing on a podcast episode like this, this man over here. So, so yeah.

01:37:36.00
Mike
That's right.

01:37:37.26
Bill
Okay. Last thing here, the, ah the arrested development line of the week. Okay. Cause I think I'm going to have these every once a while. They're saying some shit.

01:37:43.09
Mike
Hmm.

01:37:43.62
Bill
So the character Michael is in jail is talking to his mom on the phone. Okay.

01:37:48.15
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:37:48.97
Bill
Um, threatens to turn in his brother, Job to the police because Job was the one that actually committed this quote unquote crime. Okay.

01:37:56.18
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:37:56.73
Bill
So Michael, the character says, that's Jason Bateman. He says, tell Job that there's a hard cot here for him with his name on it. And the mother stands quietly on the phone for a minute. And she's like, Michael, you would do that to your brother?

01:38:12.86
Bill
It didn't click right away what it was, but he's like, mother, I said cot, mom, hard cot. Yeah.

01:38:21.14
Mike
a

01:38:23.06
Bill
Just again, some of these fucking deadpan lines like this. I'm like, that's fucking funny. So, all right. On that note, Mike, I, uh, I love you brother.

01:38:31.45
Mike
I love you too.

01:38:32.79
Bill
And I believe, I think we will talk soon.

01:38:35.35
Mike
We shall.

01:38:37.61
Bill
Bye.

01:38:38.38
Mike
Bye.