Aug. 1, 2026

SoberNotMature - Episode 232 (Throat Bruising And Uber Handies)

Show Notes
Transcript

This week we have...

Mike and Bill, doing whatever it is that we do.

Mike started out with his reading and it was from As Bill Sees It again. It was about building a sober life, but then also building a real life outside of the rooms. It was a good topic and a lively conversation.

Then we had an email, other podcast nonsense, coyotes and homeless people, don't stop, a daily reprieve, what is an alcoholic, Carrot Top, Tommy Lee and avoiding difficult things.

And we wrapped up with Tony Romo drunk in Milwaukee.

Enjoy the episode.

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00:00:01.53
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to ah hey god to another...

00:00:06.23
Mike
Wow.

00:00:09.00
Bill
To another...

00:00:09.02
Mike
he

00:00:10.53
Bill
There we go.

00:00:11.13
Mike
m

00:00:11.33
Bill
There it is. To another episode of Sober Not Mature. I have a cold. And I was kind of leading into that.

00:00:17.72
Mike
v

00:00:18.25
Bill
and I'm like, I wonder if I could hit that hit that little bridge that I usually do. And apparently I apparently i cannot without a ah couple of running starts up there.

00:00:25.94
Mike
That is a bridge too far.

00:00:26.19
Bill
So... a bridge too high a bridge too steep uh not a bridge too narrow it just uh yeah it uh it is what it is but so i was telling mike this before we started in the here's what i think happened we had a uh and we're at i i'm in our sister's house and obviously been here for a number of years now and uh she invited the the younger kids last weekend

00:00:45.18
Mike
Mm-hmm. You know what? soon as you started it, I thought about it. Yes, you had little disease carriers in there.

00:00:53.50
Bill
i had there There were four Petri dishes here like last weekend. and in Almost 10-year-old. um Can you believe? i mean Lucy's almost 10. I remember when you and I went out on the east side and and saw her for the first time.

00:01:02.82
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right.

00:01:05.70
Bill
and i mean That's crazy. you know so

00:01:07.99
Mike
And we had to use hand sanitizer. God damn it, what happened?

00:01:11.16
Bill
i literally I was just going to say that, that we had to use hand sanitizer, and and potentially she's one of the ones that got me sick.

00:01:15.92
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:01:17.28
Bill
So, oh, real quick, if you're a new listener, this is what you get to listen to. So this is why you should keep listening. So we've got to get that into the first minute a half.

00:01:22.33
Mike
Right.

00:01:23.85
Bill
So there we go. But anyhow, yeah, keep keep listening.

00:01:25.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:27.38
Bill
but so um And then ah ah Penelope, who is, she's almost six.

00:01:34.01
Mike
All right.

00:01:34.10
Bill
ah she'll be So Lucy and Penelope will be, their birthdays are next month. or september Yeah, next month, almost next month.

00:01:39.10
Mike
Yeah, yeah, all right.

00:01:39.50
Bill
Yeah, it is. yeah this bill Okay, yeah, shit, it is next month.

00:01:40.60
Mike
Yeah. By the time you're listening to this, it will be August.

00:01:43.80
Bill
It is. so And then my my grandson's four and a half, and then my my youngest grandson is five months.

00:01:48.54
Mike
Uh huh. Mm hmm.

00:01:51.20
Bill
So none of them seemed like they were sick, but you know the the more and more I thought about it was like, Tuesday, I'm like, I feel a little sinus-y.

00:01:51.32
Mike
Right.

00:01:53.74
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:01:58.26
Mike
a

00:01:58.78
Bill
And Wednesday, I'm like, ooh, a little bit of a throat thing. And then yesterday, I'm like, ooh, this is you know kind of still there. And then, yeah, by this morning, I'm like, okay, yeah, it's it's it's there.

00:02:03.45
Mike
a ha

00:02:06.50
Bill
So be But, you know, the the thing that is, is that I don't get sick very often and this won't last that long. But the the biggest problem is, is that obviously, well, it's it's hitting me at the end of the week when we're doing this, when I've got to talk.

00:02:18.68
Mike
Sure.

00:02:20.47
Bill
And i I talk all day and it was fine for the most part today. Cough drops or whatever did. You know, it it was every once in a while my my voice would squeak, which it'll probably do tonight. Like, ah was that Peter or Bobby on the Brady Bunch?

00:02:32.22
Bill
Peter?

00:02:32.22
Mike
That was Peter.

00:02:33.62
Bill
Okay, so if, yeah, I'm 57-year-old going to be going through puberty as we're as we're talking here, but who knows?

00:02:37.91
Mike
Right. Like Ozzy, you're going through changes.

00:02:40.41
Bill
Maybe it'll... Yes, yes exactly. But um I don't know. So it it is what it is, but I don't really feel bad. I feel a little bit just, I don't know. you know I feel like i my head's stuffed up.

00:02:50.83
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:51.86
Bill
That's it. and you know I mean, it's just it's fine.

00:02:52.25
Mike
Right.

00:02:54.26
Bill
It's what it's whatever. you know so

00:02:55.35
Mike
who

00:02:56.47
Bill
But yeah, I mean, we we don't take the summer off.

00:02:57.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:02:58.51
Bill
We don't take sick days. Yeah.

00:02:59.92
Mike
Nope.

00:03:01.02
Bill
So I got, yeah, we'll talk about that. Remember, let me write down podcast.

00:03:06.33
Mike
a a Yes.

00:03:09.82
Bill
I'm just going to put make fun of with a question mark um and put the name of the podcast, which I will not read out loud um because I don't do that to them.

00:03:13.11
Mike
Okay.

00:03:17.08
Mike
Just right.

00:03:21.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:22.87
Bill
And there. Okay. So, I mean, I've got, I've got stuff that I actually hit, I hit six pages on my notes this time.

00:03:28.49
Mike
Oof.

00:03:28.98
Bill
um But the only reason I've got, I got a little wordy with some of these. I've got like four or five things that I needed to, I got a little smart this week than just try to get myself this, this one lighter, right?

00:03:39.06
Mike
Mm. Mm.

00:03:41.24
Bill
don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. I actually went through and and explained a little bit more to myself. So, And I had to burn up an extra page. So real quick, and I'm just kind of curious here.

00:03:52.26
Bill
Do you remember? Here's my fucking one. Do you remember?

00:03:56.41
Mike
Yes.

00:03:57.10
Bill
just going to, I'm going to just talk like you so far this week.

00:03:59.10
Mike
and Okay. Right.

00:03:59.74
Bill
Okay. So do you remember?

00:04:00.63
Mike
Right. Yeah, sure. No.

00:04:03.38
Bill
Wait, which one's Mike and which one's Bill? We can't tell this week.

00:04:05.53
Mike
Yes. Right. yeah sure

00:04:08.09
Bill
um So out of the, when I did like the highlights of the things I had on my sheets, do you remember? There was one that you said you would remember for a reason. Do you remember it? a Okay, ladies and gentlemen, if you were here last week, fuck you, Mike, because I told you.

00:04:23.99
Mike
yes right

00:04:24.76
Bill
I said, you're going to forget that. You're like, no, I'm going to remember because of this. So you you gave the a whole scenario to it, which I'll read.

00:04:30.90
Mike
great That I kind of remember. i do remember yet that I was supposed to remember something, but what it actually was, i have no fucking idea.

00:04:33.40
Bill
yeah

00:04:39.67
Bill
And I really, I was thinking you would because you put a so you put a story to it. So I'm like, okay, you're going to remember, but...

00:04:43.38
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, well, I forgot i forgot what the story was. i just remember i remember doing all that. I just don't remember the subject of the matter.

00:04:51.19
Bill
ah Everyone's screaming at their, they ra theyre they're like, they're like, it's this you dumb fuck.

00:04:53.14
Mike
Oh, yeah, I'm sure they are. Yeah, hee-hee. See, kids, see what drugs and drink will do to you.

00:04:56.59
Bill
It's this. hey

00:04:59.89
Mike
It'll erase your brain cells.

00:05:01.98
Bill
But that's okay. We're going to get all that. We've got a ah we've got a ah DUI that happened in you know or ah Milwaukee, which you probably heard about.

00:05:09.69
Mike
e Maybe.

00:05:10.49
Bill
and we got We got some other things. So i don't know. We we got stuff.

00:05:12.70
Mike
We got stuff.

00:05:14.07
Bill
We got stuff. So maybe what what I'm going to do is I'm going to mute and I'm going let you read. I'm going to sit over here and with my bute muted microphone go, me, me, me.

00:05:22.36
Mike
right

00:05:22.84
Bill
No, I'm not.

00:05:23.86
Mike
Right.

00:05:23.96
Bill
I just...

00:05:24.04
Mike
Drain some music mucus.

00:05:26.10
Bill
i You know, it's not even that.

00:05:27.54
Mike
a

00:05:27.62
Bill
I'm not even like, it's I'm not really stuck. it's It's in my, it's settled into my throat now. You know, it just, that's, that's all that it is.

00:05:32.80
Mike
All right. Hey.

00:05:33.30
Bill
So it's, well, you know, hi there.

00:05:36.16
Mike
Let me settle into your throat.

00:05:37.94
Bill
yeah

00:05:41.02
Bill
Yes.

00:05:41.53
Mike
Nice.

00:05:42.06
Bill
Well, ah who why is the back of my throat bruised? Jesus, maybe that maybe that's what happened.

00:05:45.02
Mike
o now bob

00:05:48.63
Bill
somebody fucking Somebody throat fucked me, roofing me, and throat fucked me. Why can't you talk, Bill?

00:05:52.89
Mike
nice

00:05:53.75
Bill
i don't know I think I got a cold.

00:05:54.20
Mike
a

00:05:54.79
Bill
Are you sure? You don't show it. You have no symptoms, but there's a bruise in the back of your throat. Yeah, I wondered what that was.

00:05:59.96
Mike
Yes. Yes. You know, don't. Well, yeah, mean, the book's

00:06:01.69
Bill
So anyhow, so yes, if you're a new listener, that's why you get to listen to us. We talk about fucking throat fucking.

00:06:07.54
Mike
my hand.

00:06:08.29
Bill
So, okay. Anyhow, speaking of ah good thoughts and other people's good thoughts rolling around in our brain, do you have a reading about throat fucking, Mike?

00:06:11.90
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:06:16.12
Mike
um yeah you know i don't um

00:06:16.22
Bill
Anything? No? Look that up in the index.

00:06:19.99
Mike
well yeah i mean yeah have the books in my hand ah

00:06:24.34
Bill
i Okay, wait, wait, real quick before you, I don't want you to change your reading, but look at the, look at the closest thing in the index.

00:06:27.90
Mike
aha

00:06:31.91
Bill
That's as close to throat fucking as we could get. So something with a th

00:06:34.91
Mike
Let's see here. Well, no, I mean, we've we've got packages to start from the beginning, and they all kind of pertain to it.

00:06:42.06
Bill
throat fucking.

00:06:42.21
Mike
We've got yeah acceptance, admission, alibis, aloneness, ambition, amends, anger, anonymity, anxiety, arrogance, attraction.

00:06:44.54
Bill
but ah

00:06:56.59
Mike
That's just for the A's.

00:06:58.33
Bill
that' That's, that's un-fucking-believable. That's, ladies and gentlemen, our our recovery books all talk about throat fucking. We didn't know that.

00:07:04.44
Mike
They do.

00:07:05.25
Bill
We didn't know that up until this point.

00:07:07.32
Mike
More will be revealed.

00:07:07.41
Bill
So, yeah all all these years we've just been thinking they're, you know, we're rolling around good thoughts, but in the background, some some dudes, like every one of these ones, it is associated with throat fucking.

00:07:14.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:17.43
Mike
Well.

00:07:20.18
Mike
The book i I hold in my hand is As Bill Sees It.

00:07:23.22
Bill
Well,

00:07:23.38
Mike
So...

00:07:24.98
Bill
but okay. At least his name wasn't Dick, you know, so.

00:07:26.42
Mike
Right. Right. Exactly. Well, it was Dr. Bob.

00:07:30.90
Bill
Right. Yeah. He was a proctologist.

00:07:31.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:32.34
Bill
So there we go.

00:07:32.44
Mike
Bob and Neil. yeah Or Neil and Bob, I guess.

00:07:36.15
Bill
Neil, yeah, Neil and Bob.

00:07:36.70
Mike
Yeah, you'd have to kneel first and then you Bob. Anyway.

00:07:39.61
Bill
Well, you can, you can Bob then Neil, but it'd be less, it'd be less comfortable.

00:07:41.86
Mike
Well... Yeah, exactly. You gotta get down on your knees first and get comfortable.

00:07:47.03
Bill
All right. So on that note, I'm going I'm going to pause.

00:07:47.42
Mike
Anyway...

00:07:49.39
Bill
and Now I've got to pause.

00:07:50.26
Mike
Okay.

00:07:50.75
Bill
I'm going to mute. I'm going to mute. I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to do that right now.

00:07:54.23
Mike
Wow. Yes. And I go ahead. Let me get myself back on track here. um Right. So um I actually, you can unmute yourself because there's a little, little going into this.

00:08:07.62
Mike
um Yeah.

00:08:07.88
Bill
Okay.

00:08:08.94
Mike
ah So anyway, our friend Heather, right. Who was up Jesus Christ.

00:08:14.02
Bill
You told me that you told me to unmute.

00:08:14.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:08:15.66
Bill
I had to blow my nose. So that's what you get.

00:08:19.59
Mike
Bonus. Get that right out to the fans. Yeah.

00:08:23.29
Bill
did that that purpose. I just have to blow my nose. I'm like, well, fuck you. You want to be an unmute. So this is what you get.

00:08:27.40
Mike
All right. Anyway, our friend Heather, who was on here, what, about six weeks ago, something like that.

00:08:28.63
Bill
Go ahead. Our friend Heather.

00:08:33.85
Mike
Anyway, she reached out to you.

00:08:33.93
Bill
Yep.

00:08:35.61
Mike
She did a little article on you, I know, a little while back about your travels and stuff. She's doing the travel thing. Anyway, but she's doing, ah she's also leading into the recovery side of, see, I've got a thing now.

00:08:42.26
Bill
Right.

00:08:48.07
Mike
Um,

00:08:49.23
Bill
nice.

00:08:49.56
Mike
ha Anyway, right. So she reached out to me, bottom line, and she asked me if I would do the interview thing that you did. So, um yeah.

00:08:57.92
Bill
Okay.

00:08:58.97
Mike
So I got off work a bit early today. She sent it to me about a week ago and said, you got two weeks. And, you know, of course, I was planning on, you know, doing it on the 13th day. But um I had the time.

00:09:11.53
Mike
And so I i took care of that today. Um, so that'll be coming soon. As soon as I know when it happens, I'll let you all know, but yes.

00:09:19.19
Bill
Perfect. Right.

00:09:20.39
Mike
Um, but a theme that was coming up was responsibility and, um, not only in the interview thing that I did for her, but also just, you know, it was a responsibility. I made a commitment. And so I took care of her responsibility, an obligation.

00:09:38.49
Mike
So I thought I'd look up responsibilities and as Bill sees it.

00:09:41.66
Bill
Nice.

00:09:43.09
Mike
And this was one that came up and I liked it. And so here we go, finally. ah

00:09:49.88
Bill
No, you know what? that That's cool because did you see the one on Tony and Angel too? That was another good one that she did.

00:09:54.81
Mike
Yeah, right, exactly. That's why I said she's, you know, I meant to mention that and I didn't.

00:09:57.11
Bill
Yeah.

00:09:59.63
Mike
So thank you for reminding me.

00:10:00.03
Bill
Right.

00:10:01.55
Mike
See, it we, it takes more than me.

00:10:01.56
Bill
No, that was great. Yeah. Yeah.

00:10:05.11
Mike
i will I will fuck it up on my own.

00:10:07.58
Bill
And even in my weekend mind or state or whatever the hell I'm in, I can still remember that.

00:10:10.42
Mike
Right.

00:10:12.18
Bill
So cool.

00:10:12.63
Mike
Yes, exactly.

00:10:12.74
Bill
All right. Good.

00:10:13.83
Mike
Right. So, all right. So, the responsibility, blah, blah, blah. And imagine that there's like just a shit ton of readings pertaining to responsibility. And this is one of them.

00:10:24.15
Mike
um This is actually a letter he wrote in 1959. Bill Wilson, that is. um Citizens again.

00:10:34.49
Mike
Each of us in turn, that is the member who gets the most out of the program, spends a very large amount of time on 12-step work in the early years. That was my case, and perhaps I should not have stayed sober with less work.

00:10:51.22
Mike
However, sooner or later, most of us are presented with other obligations to family, friends, and country. As you will remember, 12th step also refers to practicing these principles in all our affairs.

00:11:06.56
Mike
Therefore, I think your choice of whether or not to take a particular 12-step job is to be found in your own conscience. No one else can tell you for certain what you ought to do at a particular time.

00:11:20.54
Mike
I just know that you are expected at some point to do more than carry the message of AA to other alcoholics. In AA, we aim not only for sobriety. We try again to become citizens of the world that we rejected and of the world that once rejected us.

00:11:39.13
Mike
This is the ultimate demonstration toward which 12-step work is the first but not the final step. Again, that was a letter he wrote in 1959.

00:11:52.82
Bill
Nothing from the grapevine.

00:11:55.03
Mike
No.

00:11:56.01
Bill
Oh, okay. I'm sorry about that. Cause usually there's two, there's two parts.

00:11:58.97
Mike
Right. No, that was just one big part, a letter that you wrote.

00:12:01.05
Bill
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.

00:12:02.34
Mike
Yep.

00:12:02.37
Bill
Sorry about that. I would say I was waiting. I was waiting for the, see, i'm I'm getting used to these things being like, okay, this part's this and that part's that, you know, like a great binder, big book, but I like that.

00:12:08.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:10.62
Mike
Right.

00:12:10.85
Bill
So what year was it? 1959 you said?

00:12:13.18
Mike
Yep.

00:12:14.26
Bill
That's, uh, uh, I mean, yeah I don't know. i just, I listened when the, the, the funny thing is it just in a general sense, when, when we've been ah in meetings or, or at founder's day or anything like that, we're, listening to all these things about the big book and the making of the big book.

00:12:29.25
Bill
That's what made me think of Founders Day and in all these different things.

00:12:29.72
Mike
Right.

00:12:32.33
Bill
it's ah it's I know the dates roughly, you know, like when it was originally started and these sort of things that happened and blah, blah, blah. But I just don't think about them on a regular basis while I'm listening to some of these things.

00:12:44.78
Bill
So when you put dates on it like that, as you're reading it, I'm like, that was a long fucking time ago, you know?

00:12:44.97
Mike
Right.

00:12:48.08
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:12:50.10
Bill
um You know, and it just...

00:12:50.14
Mike
Wow. And that was after he'd been doing it for 20 years.

00:12:55.26
Bill
Yeah. And then, well, that's the, ah that was the other, literally the other thing I was going to say, I'm like, and that was, you figure, you know, 59 to 35 when they, and all this, I'm like, that's, that's a long gap in there.

00:13:02.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:04.34
Bill
just It just did, I don't know. It's kind of mind, mind blowing to me when I, when I think about that. But so the, the first thing that I wrote down um was the, the thing about the 12 step work, um you know, doing it more in the beginning, which I, you know, mean, he's, well,

00:13:14.02
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:13:18.58
Bill
I was going to say he's right. Well, which I mean, I think, I think a lot of us know he's right about a lot of things, but I mean, that, that makes sense to me because I think that, um well, I was just going to ask you that, that question when, when you, when we first got sober in that sort of thing, I guess even in a general sense, we'll talk about it going down the road, but do you think you, you did that?

00:13:20.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Well, sure.

00:13:29.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:34.60
Mike
Right? Mm-hmm.

00:13:39.03
Bill
Was it more, did you do more 12 step work? Do you think at that point or. Right.

00:13:42.74
Mike
Well, I mean, yeah, just more service work, more involved.

00:13:45.37
Bill
Right.

00:13:45.66
Mike
You know, I mean, we we had to get our asses in the middle of the bed and, you know, we certainly weren't when we started.

00:13:49.99
Bill
Right.

00:13:51.98
Mike
So, yeah, we had to immerse ourselves and, yeah, you know, doing well, you know, clearly the 90 and 90 and then, you know, or 90, probably 190.

00:14:03.68
Mike
And then um and, you know, right.

00:14:04.14
Bill
Right.

00:14:06.42
Mike
And then yeah and then we we're down to five and then, you know, and then four and then three and then yeah right you know which is again but i mean that's kind of what he's talking about you know 25 years 26 27 years sober at that point it's all yeah you know in the beginning fuck yeah i did a lot more than than than i do now um and he even says you know i had to i probably wouldn't have stayed sober if i didn't do that much if i was you know doing what i'm doing now back then it wouldn't have stuck you know i needed like i said i

00:14:39.29
Mike
I needed to get in the middle of the bed. I needed to immerse myself in it so I could, you know, figure some shit out. Um, but yeah, you know, um, but as the letter goes on, he starts talking about, look, man, you know, other stuff comes up.

00:14:56.41
Mike
I mean, and we've seen, you know, I, I've certainly seen plenty of people in the rooms who fucking hide in the rooms, man. And, um, I, And that's not way I want to live.

00:15:08.98
Mike
um You know, I mean, yes, the rooms are great and and and i'm I'm glad they're there.

00:15:09.39
Bill
Right. Right.

00:15:14.15
Mike
And, you know, I do my little part to keep the doors open where I can and all that stuff. But I don't want to live in a church basement, man. You know, I want those other obligations.

00:15:24.91
Mike
I want family and friends and country and, you know, society, whatever the fuck it is. I want to be a part of that. That's, you know, I mean, the line I loved, um which really kept me, you know, had me use this one.

00:15:39.45
Mike
um Lots of good points and all that stuff. But I'm.

00:15:44.69
Mike
yeah, we, uh, in AA, we aim not only for sobriety, we try again to become citizens of the world that we rejected and the world that rejected us, which, you know, I thought was really cool and really, you know, yeah, you know, we got to remember we fucking rejected them and, and they rejected us.

00:15:55.43
Bill
Right.

00:16:03.84
Mike
Absolutely. You know, with good reason, but they did.

00:16:05.29
Bill
Right.

00:16:07.14
Mike
and you know, we could be, if we weren't doing the work and doing what we're supposed to do, we could be resentful of that world that rejected us. Um, yeah, even though they had good reason, whatever, they, they still rejected us and don't they know who they fucking think I am?

00:16:22.55
Mike
And right. You know?

00:16:23.80
Bill
Right.

00:16:24.07
Mike
Yeah. Right. No, but I want to be a part of the world that I rejected. Absolutely. And I want to be a part of the world that rejected me. You know, I want to be welcomed back into it.

00:16:34.44
Mike
Um, I want to, And I want to be part of that world that I rejected because, you know, not all of it, because there are some of it that I still reject. um And that's and that's why I have that choice today.

00:16:43.35
Bill
Right, right. Right.

00:16:46.44
Mike
I have that freedom today to reject the parts that I don't fucking want.

00:16:48.37
Bill
Right.

00:16:51.16
Mike
Um. But I also, that then there's far fewer of them today, which is nice. and um you know And I'm sure there's parts of the world that would still reject me today, and I'm okay with that.

00:17:03.74
Mike
um i know I don't need to be a part of that world, apparently. Not my goddamn decision. if You reject me? Cool. All right. you know I'm going to be part of this world over here. That rejected me before, but welcomed me back in because they saw that I did some work and I'm a different person now.

00:17:19.75
Mike
Um, yeah, but anyway, that, that was the thing that I really liked, you know, the, the two sides of it that we have to remember and, um, and, and truly because of the work, I do want to be a part of some of this shit today, which is kind of nice.

00:17:34.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, I kind of a, kind of a fucking miracle, I guess, if you, you know, you if you really think about it, because in, in that was a, and I heard that I didn't write that down, but I, but I heard that I was writing something else down.

00:17:39.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:45.46
Mike
Right.

00:17:46.86
Bill
I think that I probably had either before, before that must've been, but, um,

00:17:47.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:51.67
Bill
But yeah, really, i mean, because we were rejected, but I mean, we did, we rejected things. And like, I think you made a good point too, that there's still parts of this world um that you reject.

00:17:56.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:00.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:01.63
Bill
But I just wrote down the ah the, I wrote down reject positively because, you know, you're not, and I don't think I am out there.

00:18:07.22
Mike
Right.

00:18:10.50
Bill
Well, I mean. Again, we're judgmental and all those things.

00:18:11.95
Mike
Mm.

00:18:13.18
Bill
And there's some things that are not completely positive. So we have, we have backbone and we have opinions, sometimes strong ones on things that we're rejecting, but we're not out there, you know, blaming these other parts that the things that we reject today, usually I think at most part have some sort of background or back point to them, um you know, or backbone to them and some point to it.

00:18:15.63
Mike
Sure.

00:18:18.92
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:31.91
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:18:34.50
Bill
It's not just like, well, well, fuck you people, you know?

00:18:36.92
Mike
Right.

00:18:37.01
Bill
Right.

00:18:37.24
Mike
Yeah, yeah. yeah it's It's morals and standards, and it's the fact that that we are clear-headed and we can make judgments, and and we have this, like you said, a backbone, the morals and standards that that, you know, not just random opinions because we're fucking raving drunk and we think we're right about everything, um But we actually have a basis, and you know, a a moral basis and whatever, however you want to put it.

00:18:40.84
Bill
Right.

00:18:57.21
Bill
Right.

00:19:04.58
Mike
But there's a there's a factual, truthful basis in quite a lot of our opinions today. um and And so when we make those judgments and we go, yeah, I'm rejecting that because it's fucking wrong. um Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

00:19:20.54
Mike
I think that's kind of part of the point is we don't have, you know, it's not our feelings and it's not our whatever and our random ravings of of our intoxicated minds, but actual feelings.

00:19:32.75
Mike
Well, yeah, you know, I mean, some of that shit was, um but, but it's actual, you know, comes from the principles that were given to us that we, you know, learned to accept and, and, and, and learn to embrace and and figured out that the fuck they're right.

00:19:34.20
Bill
Right. No, i I agree with you. Yeah. Right.

00:19:52.02
Mike
I wasn't right, but this is right.

00:19:52.13
Bill
Right.

00:19:54.46
Mike
So now I believe in this. So, hey you know, I guess part of me is right. Kind of nice. Not all of me, but part of me.

00:20:01.37
Bill
Well, and I, exactly.

00:20:03.38
Mike
see

00:20:05.30
Bill
Well, and I think too, that I think any of the, I was just thinking about it, trying to figure out all the, all the, you know, the, I was trying to mash together the, these words to try to figure out what I was saying. And it just came to me is that if, if there's something that I don't um like or agree with, agree with these days, if somebody asks me why I can answer that question today, where I never used to be able to, Because I'm not going to um cast an opinion unless I know something about it.

00:20:23.79
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:20:30.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:32.43
Bill
So give it give me an example.

00:20:32.82
Mike
Ah, so you've done some investigation. Mm-hmm.

00:20:35.51
Bill
Exactly. and um And this, I wasn't going to necessarily bring this up, but let's let's sideline for a minute because I think this is this isnt ah an important thing that has nothing to do with recovery, but it has something to do with the world right now.

00:20:41.08
Mike
Sure.

00:20:47.24
Bill
And that's AI and what needs to be, what literally needs to be done to to be able to power um this whole revolution and that's data centers, right?

00:20:54.60
Mike
All right, right?

00:20:56.92
Bill
Now, the the the thing with it is when i when I first heard about it, everyone's, you go everywhere. There's one, signs down the road from here when you're going out towards where mom used to live, past there and whatever, and all over the place.

00:21:01.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:07.73
Bill
Nobody, no data centers, blah, blah, blah.

00:21:10.07
Mike
Right, right, right, right, right.

00:21:11.45
Bill
And the only thing that i I'm hearing on the the negatives, I'm hearing two things on the negative before I looked into it, is they're they're going to ruin the the planet because they they use water.

00:21:17.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:22.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:22.84
Bill
and a lot of water to cool and i i understand the concept and then um they're noisy those are the two things that i've heard and i'm like okay so i mean the ai is not the first thing that's used data centers so that's number one and this isn't the first thing about computers that's number two but i do understand from the as i started doing research is they're they're working at ai works at such a whatever whatever the pace is that a normal computer works this or the technology that the knowledge base that works from a computer ai's working at i mean just you can't even explain the speed like i said before i asked this question and it's spitting out shit literally as soon as i press the button and i'm like well fuck me man you know it's crazy so that takes a lot of

00:21:23.93
Mike
Yeah, right. Sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:21:34.90
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:21:41.66
Mike
Right.

00:22:05.60
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:08.92
Bill
space and computers and memories and all this sort of things, which all of that takes all the cooling.

00:22:10.09
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:22:14.00
Bill
So I started looking into this cause I'm like, okay, I get it.

00:22:14.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:17.98
Bill
I don't want all of our water to be used up. You know we'll, we'll die.

00:22:20.57
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:22:22.10
Bill
Um, and I don't want every, every place I go to be fucking noisy.

00:22:22.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:26.55
Bill
I don't like that either. You know, I'm all about peace and serenity and all that good stuff.

00:22:29.91
Mike
Sure.

00:22:30.61
Bill
Um, So I start reading into all these things and um the the water part of it is they're looking at it basically two different things right now. They're looking at basically theyre the the initial intake.

00:22:41.38
Bill
It's kind of like filling up a pool. I don't know if i read the concept or I just thought about that in my head. The initial thing that you do with your pool, you're going to put a lot of water in it, but then you're going to treat it and stuff like that.

00:22:48.97
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:50.22
Bill
Basically not recycle the water, but you're filtering it and whatever, right?

00:22:53.03
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:22:53.56
Bill
So you're using that same water for a long period of time. So you're not filling up however many thousands of gallons every every time you want to go swimming.

00:22:56.53
Mike
That's

00:23:00.94
Mike
right.

00:23:01.21
Bill
um Same thing with by the way I understand with this data center is the initial influx of water is going to be a lot.

00:23:07.00
Mike
Right.

00:23:07.45
Bill
But what they're doing is they're they're building these filtration systems to recycle the water.

00:23:13.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:13.11
Bill
You know, so there's going to be a certain portion, let's say 20% that's going to have to be replaced on a regular basis. But the initial thing is just like anything else. The initial glut is going to be in the beginning and then they're going to do whatever.

00:23:22.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:24.34
Bill
So then people like, okay, well, the cost of whatever, in my understanding is that um these companies that want to put these data centers in, it's just like a, I think about it like a casino. Okay.

00:23:34.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:35.38
Bill
You know, the the casinos, they want to build these grand properties and do all this different stuff. And I'm talking about like the Native American casinos, not Vegas. Vegas is what Vegas is and Atlantic City.

00:23:43.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:44.18
Bill
But bunch of around Wisconsin. I know Missouri and all these other states that have these Native American gaming casinos. And usually they have to go to the state and say, we want this. And the state's like, well, we'll we'll let you or we won't, but you're going to pay us.

00:23:58.71
Bill
And they they're always like, fuck you.

00:23:58.77
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:24:00.48
Bill
How much, you know, how much do you want?

00:24:01.43
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:24:03.28
Bill
You know?

00:24:03.74
Mike
Right.

00:24:04.44
Bill
And my understanding is, is these data centers are going to do the same thing. Whoever these AI companies are doing the same thing, because they're going to make money hand over fist.

00:24:10.14
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:24:11.72
Bill
So I don't think it's,

00:24:11.96
Mike
Well, yeah, the government's wetting their beak. Absolutely.

00:24:14.68
Bill
Right. And so I haven't heard that. I haven't heard a complaint that this is going to cost us money. Um, that it, you know, like ah a taxpayer money, it's just this noise and whatever. So my opinion, my thought pattern when I read it too, is that there's factories all over the goddamn place.

00:24:29.46
Bill
Right.

00:24:29.59
Mike
Yeah, right, right, yeah.

00:24:30.71
Bill
You know, that all these factories make noise. And I think it's going to be the same thing.

00:24:34.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:34.35
Bill
It's just, these are computer noise versus maybe machine noise from a, you know, whatever it is, what it is, you know?

00:24:37.30
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right, yeah.

00:24:40.50
Bill
So.

00:24:40.62
Mike
And I mean, yeah, and there's always pollution. I mean, it always has been, you know.

00:24:44.34
Bill
Right.

00:24:44.46
Mike
I live in a city where the fucking river caught on fire, you know, because they were dumping shit into it.

00:24:49.30
Bill
True story. Right.

00:24:50.26
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:50.78
Bill
Yeah.

00:24:51.10
Mike
that Several times it caught on fire. Yeah.

00:24:53.88
Bill
Right.

00:24:54.58
Mike
Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah yes, you know, big industry is always polluted. They're always going to fucking win. They're always going to do what they want to do. The government's always going to fight back. Government's going to take their cut always. um And they're going to, you know, do their best to regulate it so it doesn't, you know, poison us because they're getting money from us, too. They don't want us dead.

00:25:16.38
Mike
um Yeah, you know, it's whatever.

00:25:16.39
Bill
Right.

00:25:19.30
Mike
Again, all all of it's above my pay grade.

00:25:19.74
Bill
Well, and.

00:25:21.78
Mike
And and what the fuck am I going to do?

00:25:24.50
Bill
No, and my only my only point to that was that, you know, when you know, like somebody asking ah in an opinion, I do have I've got an opinion on AI centers or data centers.

00:25:32.18
Mike
Right.

00:25:33.70
Bill
I don't know that I'm 100 percent for, you know, but but two things that I that I know is it it's helped me immensely in a lot of things that I do that.

00:25:36.60
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:25:42.37
Bill
That's number one.

00:25:43.35
Mike
Right.

00:25:43.45
Bill
That's just from the selfish standpoint. But I do know that it's helped a lot of people productivity wise and blah, blah, blah.

00:25:48.85
Mike
Sure.

00:25:49.40
Bill
But the other thing is, is the other thing, here's the the fucking reality is I, I know it's not just because me or, ah or a million or 3 billion people get together and be like, fuck AI and fuck the data centers.

00:26:01.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:02.55
Bill
It's not going away, you know?

00:26:03.93
Mike
Right, exactly.

00:26:05.14
Bill
So let's figure,

00:26:05.82
Mike
And all those people are, well, all those people, you know, some of them are on their phones right now listening to a podcast.

00:26:11.96
Bill
Right. Right. You know, and in the thing, the thing with this is that I don't know, it's just, I started to think about, i'm I'm not trying to, I would never convince anyone that this is what it is. I know what it does for me.

00:26:22.32
Bill
And I did enough research to have an opinion about it.

00:26:22.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:24.92
Bill
um But if somebody else hates data centers and whatever the thing is, I'm not going to protest them.

00:26:25.02
Mike
Sure.

00:26:27.80
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:29.04
Bill
But I would have never, ever had an open conversation about data centers unless I, unless I did some research, I'd be like, I don't fucking know.

00:26:29.18
Mike
Come on.

00:26:35.56
Mike
hmm.

00:26:36.31
Bill
I mean, I can i make some cool fucking pictures for me.

00:26:36.47
Mike
Right.

00:26:39.31
Bill
AI's got a cool, yay AI, you know.

00:26:39.61
Mike
Yeah. Again. Right. And in the the the point I brought up is I know a little bit of history and I know how things work. Human beings handle their shit and do things and industry and all that stuff.

00:26:53.52
Mike
And it's all the same. It's going to be the same. So, just you know, settle down. Whatever happened to Ford Motor Company and Sherwin-Williams Paints and, you know, Dow Chemical and and ah Johnson & Johnson and, you know, that all the industries that create things and do things.

00:27:05.30
Bill
Right.

00:27:13.29
Mike
And, and and yes, there's there's positives and negatives, and it's going to fucking happen anyway.

00:27:20.57
Mike
Yelp.

00:27:20.85
Bill
Right. Yeah. It's just, this is, this is just the next thing. I mean, there's no doubt.

00:27:24.41
Mike
ye

00:27:24.51
Bill
This is probably the, the biggest thing that, um, you know, from a technology standpoint that, you know, any of us have ever seen, you know, but, um, yeah, it again, it's still, you can still put it in that same, you know, that same thing.

00:27:28.60
Mike
Meh. Meh.

00:27:31.22
Mike
ma'

00:27:36.70
Bill
You know, we, we don't know, we don't know until we, until it, until it happens, more will be revealed.

00:27:38.98
Mike
Yeah, right. I mean, you know, exactly. I mean, right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, when radio, you know, became a thing in the 20s, I mean, people were freaking out that the radio waves going through the air were going to kill them.

00:27:50.90
Mike
You know, yeah they were.

00:27:51.26
Bill
Right? Right?

00:27:52.76
Mike
Absolutely.

00:27:52.93
Bill
Right?

00:27:53.24
Mike
You know, and now we got a hell of a lot more shit going through the air and I'm still breathing, you know.

00:27:58.33
Bill
right

00:27:58.40
Mike
So, yeah, whatever. it's do a little Like you said, do some research, know about what's come before you, and you're pretty much going to know what's coming after you.

00:28:08.70
Bill
Yeah, and then at least that that's the only thing that I ever, you know, that comes around with voting and everything like that. Just do some fucking research. It doesn't, don't, I mean, any anyone, and you don't, I don't give a shit.

00:28:14.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:17.72
Bill
You can do whatever you want, um you know, but you want to talk about judging. I will judge every goddamn day of the week, and I don't care who you are. If you're a headline person, you just read a headline, and you're like, oh, look at this, and you do you do no research whatsoever, you know what?

00:28:24.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:28.02
Mike
Right.

00:28:31.14
Bill
Fuck you, because you did the headline, all it is is,

00:28:31.96
Mike
Yeah. You get what you deserve.

00:28:34.36
Bill
Exactly. Exactly. So anyhow, that was a, that was a huge fucking sideline, but, uh, kind of goes back to the, to the, the part of this, I think.

00:28:38.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:42.68
Mike
Yes, exactly.

00:28:42.98
Bill
Um,

00:28:43.84
Mike
Having an opinion and having a clear head and being able to make rational decisions and being able to contribute to society as a whole in a positive way.

00:28:54.84
Bill
Right. Thank you.

00:28:55.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:55.76
Bill
So, yeah, you just signed my sign my bullshit for me without me even having having to explain it.

00:28:58.52
Mike
I did. i co-signed the fuck out of that.

00:29:00.36
Bill
So thank you. yeah So the the last couple of things that that I wrote down here, um i wrote down expected to do your part, which we were taught really, really, really early on.

00:29:10.33
Mike
Sure.

00:29:11.00
Bill
um And then, you know, how how good it is. Like you just said a few minutes ago, I wrote be part of, but you added to, you know, how good it is to be part of.

00:29:16.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:18.80
Bill
And you know what?

00:29:19.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:19.52
Bill
That goes on every level of my life. And and I always try to make a point about this that, you know, especially when when life is is difficult. And, you know, I've, again, been open on here.

00:29:28.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:30.22
Bill
It's it's the work shit. It's the finance stuff. It's whatever.

00:29:32.22
Mike
Right.

00:29:32.46
Bill
um You know, and things aren't like fucking rosy.

00:29:32.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:34.94
Bill
They're not ah unicorns. No, um raspberry, strawberries, strawberries, and orgasms.

00:29:37.09
Mike
No.

00:29:40.44
Mike
Strawberries and orgasms.

00:29:41.75
Bill
There we go. Yeah, my my life is not strawberries and orgasms at this point. However, um two things.

00:29:45.75
Mike
Right?

00:29:47.70
Bill
Today I didn't drink. I don't plan on drinking tomorrow. It hasn't even crossed my mind as being a a solution ah or a viable solution of any any stretch.

00:29:50.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:54.26
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:29:55.93
Bill
you know But on top of that is that one way or the other – This shit's going to work out. So um I am just glad to be a part of.

00:30:00.15
Mike
Yep.

00:30:02.62
Bill
I'm i'm an alcoholic. i know I know I've got a problem.

00:30:04.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:05.68
Bill
I know what the problem is, and i'm part of the solution.

00:30:06.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:08.04
Bill
And that solution allows me to deal with this fucking shitstorm that is my life at the moment.

00:30:08.44
Mike
Yep.

00:30:13.28
Bill
You know, and it's not, okay?

00:30:13.50
Mike
Yep. All right.

00:30:15.24
Bill
But but there's i'm not I'm not used to this.

00:30:15.78
Mike
Of course.

00:30:17.88
Bill
I'm not used to lavish you know things in my life.

00:30:18.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:20.60
Bill
But i want there's there's the even keel, and I'm not there at the moment, you know?

00:30:21.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:24.44
Mike
Right.

00:30:25.08
Bill
Um, which again, it is what it is, you know? So, so whatever.

00:30:27.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:28.36
Bill
But, um, but then the, the only other question I had for you, and it was going back to the 12 step work.

00:30:28.91
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:34.13
Bill
Cause I was thinking about like 12 step calls, you know, like actually going out on those.

00:30:35.18
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Right.

00:30:39.02
Bill
So with the exception of, well, I can think of one that I think we both did with one individual, um, separately, but did you do, did you do a lot of those or go a lot, trying to get out and go like having to go grab people?

00:30:39.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:49.94
Mike
No, I mean, yeah that doesn't, it doesn't really happen like it used to. um Again, which is, you know, ah kind of part of, you know, the information and and whatever that we have today, things are a little different.

00:30:53.94
Bill
Right.

00:31:01.46
Mike
You know, we don't have a wife calling an office, you know, a rotary phone connected to the wall somewhere.

00:31:01.87
Bill
Right.

00:31:09.77
Bill
callic Click, click, click, click, click.

00:31:10.97
Mike
Right. You know, I'm calling an office somewhere saying my husband doesn't know what the fuck to do. And, you know, he can't stop. And I think he kind of wants to, but I'm not sure.

00:31:21.16
Mike
Can somebody come talk to him? You know, which was a 12 step call back then. um You know, that shit doesn't happen.

00:31:25.50
Bill
Right.

00:31:27.08
Mike
I mean, it. Anybody who's got half a brain in their head knows that there's some, there's a way out somewhere.

00:31:34.41
Bill
right.

00:31:34.62
Mike
um you know, ah shit, I knew, you know, I mean, you knew your dad was fucking sober. You knew you just didn't think it applied to you for whatever irrational reasons that you convinced yourself of.

00:31:41.49
Bill
Right.

00:31:44.25
Bill
Exactly. Well,

00:31:48.13
Mike
Um,

00:31:48.31
Bill
it was in my defense. I was drunk,

00:31:50.94
Mike
Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah, me too. Right. You know, yeah, I was fucking high, man.

00:31:54.17
Bill
right?

00:31:54.78
Mike
You know, I'm right.

00:31:57.50
Bill
ah

00:31:58.82
Mike
But I mean, but somewhere deep down, if we seriously like went, I need some help. I've got to stop. I can't stop, whatever. Yeah, yeah there's we know, you know, um I mean, there's it's funny.

00:32:12.82
Mike
i um I go to a place in Pennsylvania, right, for work. And um it's it's actually a pet food factory. And, yeah, I pick up preloaded trailers there, and they're really fucking heavy, right? They're not illegal heavy, but they're real fucking close. So I'm in Pennsylvania. Well, ah the interstates, you've got two of them coming from where I'm at there, coming back into Ohio. It's I-80 or I-90, right? ah And on both of those, at the state line, there are way stations. Right.

00:32:46.39
Mike
at both of them, right? So there's no way to get back in Ohio on the interstate without crossing a way station. I've got very close to illegal loads. um I don't wanna fuck with it.

00:32:59.45
Mike
I mean, i so I don't, I take a back road. ah So there's a point to this. So it's actually US-6 that I take, which runs right by where you're at right now in Indiana.

00:33:10.84
Bill
Right. God damn.

00:33:12.01
Mike
um

00:33:12.48
Bill
Wow. Really?

00:33:12.86
Mike
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:33:13.56
Bill
Crazy.

00:33:14.34
Mike
That one, US-6. Well, I mean, the the low numbers of the US highways run across the country.

00:33:20.89
Bill
Do they really?

00:33:21.53
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, US 50 runs from Ocean City, Maryland to Sacramento, California.

00:33:22.60
Bill
Huh?

00:33:28.28
Mike
You could get on that road and go the whole way.

00:33:29.02
Bill
Really?

00:33:30.80
Mike
It's a fucked up way to go, but you could do it.

00:33:32.98
Bill
Right.

00:33:33.00
Mike
um You know, those were the roads before the interstate system.

00:33:36.50
Bill
Huh. Okay.

00:33:36.92
Mike
So um anyway, so I'm on. It's a two lane road going hilly and windy and la la la. I'm heavy as fuck anyway. um But I'm used to it now. I know the road very well and it's not a problem.

00:33:48.36
Mike
But my point being to what we started with was there's solutions everywhere. I'm out in Pennsylvania in the middle of fucking nowhere. And there's a small billboard on the way coming back to Ohio with Jamie Lee Curtis on it.

00:34:04.18
Mike
And that says the bravest thing I ever did was getting sober in the middle of fucking nowhere.

00:34:04.41
Bill
here

00:34:11.32
Bill
Right.

00:34:11.34
Mike
There's a billboard right there, you know, and I'm sure in the smaller, you know, on it somewhere, there's a number or website or some shit that, you know, you can go for information.

00:34:23.62
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, it's out there if, if, yeah so my point being, we don't need to go and knock on somebody's door anymore. That's kind of, it's, you know, it happens.

00:34:33.54
Bill
Right.

00:34:36.15
Mike
Um, you know, and it's usually any more, it's somebody that's already known in the rooms, has has been in the rooms and, you know, Hey, you know, Harry's over here drunk in his fucking bed.

00:34:46.83
Mike
Can somebody come over and talk to him, please? You know, because that connection was already made in the past.

00:34:49.17
Bill
Right.

00:34:52.63
Mike
It's not the cold call that 12-step calls were in the 30s. Yeah.

00:34:58.10
Bill
Yeah. Or, or like the call that that I got, you know, Daryl's hold up in a hotel.

00:35:01.27
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:01.54
Bill
Can you go get him and bring him back to the Keating center?

00:35:01.91
Mike
Right. Right. Yeah. Again, yeah, there was already a connection there.

00:35:05.21
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:06.78
Mike
Right.

00:35:07.77
Bill
And I, and I think that's, i think you had to pick up Daryl one time too. So I think that we, we ended up having to do the, pick up the same guy in different circumstances.

00:35:10.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:13.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:14.49
Bill
And I think that, I think that was the only one that I ever actually, that I ever did.

00:35:14.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:17.78
Mike
Yeah, like kind of an official sort of thing. And and that's not really even a 12 step call.

00:35:20.34
Bill
Yeah.

00:35:22.06
Mike
The original 12 step calls were going and sitting down and telling your story and, you know, and and trying to connect with the guy and let him know that there's a solution.

00:35:22.26
Bill
Right. Exactly.

00:35:31.27
Mike
um yeah everybody knows there's a fucking solution. There's something that can be done. Just we choose not to do it. Because we're.

00:35:39.52
Bill
Right. Yeah, well, that's the that's the part of the big book. Well, when you sit down with a fellow, try to tell him your story, but don't say that you're an alcoholic.

00:35:43.77
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:35:47.66
Bill
li him Let him see.

00:35:48.66
Mike
Right.

00:35:49.26
Bill
yeah It just reminds me of the old the old cartoons where when you sit down with your fellow, tell him tell him your story, but don't tell him too much.

00:35:49.59
Mike
Yeah. I know. Mm-hmm.

00:35:58.49
Bill
Let him start asking questions.

00:35:58.74
Mike
Right.

00:36:00.21
Bill
If the fellow's interested, leave him a book.

00:36:00.50
Mike
Yes. Right.

00:36:03.80
Bill
My name's Troy McClure. You may remember me from...

00:36:05.66
Mike
a From 12-step calls is dragging Daryl out of a motel room. Yes. Yes.

00:36:12.98
Bill
yeah If anyone doesn't know who Troy McClure shame on you, number one, but just look look up look up Troy McClure.

00:36:14.39
Mike
you um yes

00:36:19.17
Bill
I'm not going explain anything more about it.

00:36:20.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:21.21
Bill
It's fucking hilarious. but and I do have the the thing on and The Simpsons, which I told you about, which I know you already forgot.

00:36:22.49
Mike
Right.

00:36:27.21
Bill
But... um

00:36:27.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:29.11
Bill
Down the road. Down the road here. We've got we got we've got time.

00:36:30.49
Mike
Right.

00:36:31.63
Bill
So um anything else that that stood out for you in the reading? Anything else? Not that we missed. i You know, as I'm getting away from that.

00:36:37.11
Mike
We had a reading?

00:36:39.11
Bill
I think we did. We talked about...

00:36:40.86
Mike
Okay.

00:36:41.75
Bill
We we can go back to throat fucking, I think, if we we could go talk.

00:36:43.58
Mike
We can. Yes, exactly. Acceptance.

00:36:46.62
Bill
Like, that was so, seriously, that was fucking funny. When you started reading all those, you're like, that's just the A's.

00:36:52.89
Mike
Yeah, it was.

00:36:54.33
Bill
like Jesus Christ.

00:36:54.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:55.09
Bill
And yeah, every one of them could, that's just, it's it's creepy, creepy in a fun way.

00:36:58.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:59.29
Bill
So, okay, so nothing, nothing outside of the ordinary.

00:36:59.61
Mike
Exactly. that giant' fated yeah exactly. You know, be a part of.

00:37:04.98
Bill
All right, hang on.

00:37:06.33
Mike
Bill is clearing his throat.

00:37:09.40
Bill
i did it I did it nicely there. And while you were doing the readings, I paused a couple of, not paused, muted it a couple of times. So, all right.

00:37:15.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:16.44
Bill
So we got we got a couple of minutes. So this, a couple of minutes, to we're going to take a break, obviously. But we've got more than a couple of minutes. So when it gets to talk about don't know We're going keep fucking talking for another 50-some minutes.

00:37:27.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:28.14
Bill
um But no, the the podcast I was telling you about. So, So two things came up. The the one um i saw the and this is the one that took the summer break and whatever. And I haven't seen any.

00:37:38.28
Mike
Aha.

00:37:38.66
Bill
They haven't been posting anything like videos or anything like that lately because um exactly exactly.

00:37:41.05
Mike
Well, they're on summer vacation. They're out frolicking.

00:37:44.28
Bill
but you know every once in a while it's like ah you know they'll still do these posts and whatever the thing is but the one um and i'm i'm not gonna make fun of it because i just uh it it was kind of heartfelt and i looked at it i'm like god damn you know so this individual was talking about a life situation that they were going through and you know finally having to deal with it just you know i've never been open about this before and i'm like well then okay so that's i get that they're they're doing kind of what we do you know they're kind of getting out there i'm like well that That's meaningful, you know?

00:37:48.05
Mike
hmm. Mm

00:37:54.89
Mike
hmm.

00:37:59.34
Mike
Well,

00:38:06.79
Mike
sure.

00:38:10.17
Mike
Right.

00:38:10.68
Bill
And then it's then this other one I just saw i saw today started talking about something else. so We were invited to do this thing where we talked about whatever, and we don't necessarily do these things, but we got to explain what we do.

00:38:18.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:21.20
Bill
And then they went into this whole thing and about, you know, like their podcast thing. And i'm like, okay. So, you know, you're just, you're telling a story, but really what it came down to is that you're you're patting yourself on the back about what you do.

00:38:32.20
Bill
So I don't know, tell your story.

00:38:32.44
Mike
Sure.

00:38:34.14
Bill
tell It'll kind of do something nice for somebody else and don't tell anyone about it type of thing. But Or, you know, if you want to say this is what we're got to do this thing, has nothing to do with us, but we just got to do this thing.

00:38:43.24
Mike
Right.

00:38:45.39
Bill
and It was kind of cool.

00:38:45.90
Mike
Yeah, yeah, right.

00:38:46.62
Bill
End of story.

00:38:47.48
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:38:49.30
Bill
So I don't know.

00:38:50.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:50.52
Bill
I don't know. And again, we're we're not perfect. I mean, I'm out there with, you know trying to put all these fucking memes on here that are, ah you know, AI shit. And talk to me and, you know, talk to us and look at us and listen to us and blah, blah, blah.

00:39:00.66
Mike
Yes, sure.

00:39:02.04
Bill
But I don't know. Every once in a while, just I feel like judging people.

00:39:03.86
Mike
hey

00:39:05.39
Bill
So I do.

00:39:05.96
Mike
Sure. Yeah. And feel free to judge us and feel free to tell us that you're judging us and what you're judging us for and all that good stuff.

00:39:09.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:39:14.53
Mike
Let us know. we don't give a shit.

00:39:15.64
Bill
I would, I would love, I would love to hear that.

00:39:17.40
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:39:18.40
Bill
I would love to hear that. Okay. So speaking of speaking of not being judged, but actually you are you ready to dip into the mailbag?

00:39:22.87
Mike
a

00:39:26.04
Mike
Letters. We have letters, stacks and stacks of letters.

00:39:30.14
Bill
is uh the the last the last time that we visited the mailbag uh we got an we got an email from our our good friend shirley and uh she was telling us about the consistency and all those sort of things so um and also brought up something that i had no idea what she was talking about saying that you know we were talking about something you know that thing and whatever and we're like come on yeah but i'm like come on shirley you know us you know it's better than that you know type of thing so

00:39:34.17
Mike
Ah,

00:39:37.53
Mike
yes.

00:39:42.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:47.96
Mike
Yes. I yeah yeah vaguely remember this conversation. Sure, go ahead.

00:39:55.96
Mike
Right. Uh-huh. Yeah, spell it out for us. We're dumb.

00:39:59.70
Bill
Exactly. Exactly. So, um, and I, when I emailed her, she emailed us literally like on that Monday or Tuesday after the episode.

00:40:05.56
Mike
he

00:40:06.70
Bill
And I said, I knew this was coming and I said, but we got a guest.

00:40:06.74
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:40:09.30
Bill
So, you know, blah, blah, blah. We'll get back to you.

00:40:11.03
Mike
Okay.

00:40:11.61
Bill
So this is a, again, our friend, Shirley fan girl, fan girl, Shirley.

00:40:14.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:15.37
Bill
It says two things in response to this week's episode, which would have been two weeks ago, not last week with ah Austin, which, by the way, if if you haven't listened to that episode, it was it it played well.

00:40:21.53
Mike
Right.

00:40:24.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:26.04
Bill
He was a great it was a very laid back.

00:40:27.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:27.92
Bill
You can you it it was just it was a really smooth conversation. just a fucking conversation, which we've had with a lot of people.

00:40:33.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:34.46
Bill
But it reminded me of like when we sat down with with Jim both times, when we sat down with Ben about the, about shuffle, you know, we're we're just sitting there shooting the shit about stuff.

00:40:34.68
Mike
Right.

00:40:38.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:41.17
Mike
Right.

00:40:43.26
Bill
It was fucking, it was good episode.

00:40:43.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:44.81
Bill
So, um but Shirley's like, okay, two things in response.

00:40:45.08
Mike
Absolutely.

00:40:49.04
Bill
Number one, I think it was the Terry Bradshaw bit about getting a jab of stuff when she said, you know, we were talking about stuff and blah, blah, blah. um in the ass during halftime or you guys mocking my beloved camping she said i still crack up over jesus having a yeast infection we that was a we talked about jesus because he or over over easter and like he was rising we're like yeah because he had a lee a yeast infection so that was that was that was months and months and months ago but

00:41:01.37
Mike
yeah

00:41:12.69
Mike
Ah.

00:41:15.99
Mike
Yes, it was. Surely good for you.

00:41:19.38
Bill
I know. Yeah, she still remembers. So I don't even know if that that could have been last year for Easter. But anyhow, so so that was that.

00:41:23.03
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah.

00:41:24.70
Bill
And then she said dumb this was kind of a good point. And she, you know, as we talk about that, we get don't get a lot of comments, which made me think about it because you were talking about it. um She said, if you wonder why so few people comment or rate podcasts, that she's clearly talking in general.

00:41:39.83
Bill
she said she said it's been my experience that a comment will result in one of three things the host or admin never responds um you get a canned or ai response understood or the host shoots off some smarmy remark that makes you wish you'd ever reached out the first place and this this was the nice comment she said you guys are the only podcast that actually responded in a genuine way and she said i appreciate that

00:41:40.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:47.48
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

00:41:54.54
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:41:59.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:03.93
Mike
Yeah. Yes.

00:42:05.66
Bill
So um you're welcome. But I'll tell you this much, Shirley and everyone else, um if we ever do get to the point where we're getting a lot of them, um expect that either the host will never respond.

00:42:07.61
Mike
Yes.

00:42:13.46
Mike
e

00:42:17.78
Bill
You'll get some AI or canned response, or you will get some smarmy response from the host that you wish you never even reached out.

00:42:20.34
Mike
aha

00:42:26.46
Bill
And i you think, you think I, okay, well, I hope I would hope.

00:42:26.46
Mike
You know what? I'm going to disagree with you on that. I think, I think, you you kiss you know what, man? I know I really don't think I mean, you know, it might be smarmy in a in a in a fun way. Absolutely. But, um yeah yeah, I mean, you might not get a response. um But, you know, I mean, how many how many how many are we going to have to get for that to start being part of it? I mean, what if were you going to, know, 300 a week?

00:42:57.46
Mike
I mean, you know, we're yeah, right. First of all, it's not going to happen. Second of all, I'm

00:43:02.32
Bill
Right.

00:43:04.54
Mike
Yeah, you know, I mean, practicing these principles in all our affairs, i don't see us, you know, I mean, I could see you going, hey, man, it's starting to get to be a lot. Can you take some of these?

00:43:15.84
Mike
And I would go, yeah, yeah.

00:43:16.28
Bill
Right.

00:43:18.52
Bill
ah

00:43:20.10
Mike
you know, but I mean, yeah, you know, I, I don't see any of that happening from us.

00:43:20.76
Bill
Right. Right.

00:43:26.90
Mike
I really don't. Maybe, maybe a certain canned response, but I would think, i mean, I would think we would work at that.

00:43:28.07
Bill
Yeah.

00:43:34.14
Mike
We would, we would have, you know, a dozen canned responses that would fit whatever, you know, cause I mean, nobody's coming up with anything that fucking original to us.

00:43:44.38
Mike
You know, you know, we're going have a dozen different responses.

00:43:44.66
Bill
Right.

00:43:47.10
Mike
Oh, they need number six. Oh, this one needs number four, you know, but it's going to be, but those responses are going to be thought out and written and and done by us in the first place.

00:43:58.40
Bill
Right.

00:43:58.62
Mike
um So yeah, I don't see, I don't see any of those three scenarios ever fucking happening.

00:44:04.47
Bill
Well, you know what? And that's that two things. Thank you for bringing that up because I think, not only think, I know you're right because even if it got to the point where it was too much for us, we would figure out, and I wasn't thinking that far ahead, we would figure out

00:44:10.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:15.08
Mike
Yeah. And if, and I mean, if it got that fucking big, we'd hire somebody, you know?

00:44:19.67
Bill
Correct. And that's exactly what i was just thinking.

00:44:20.73
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:44:21.19
Bill
we We would find a solution to make sure that the the people that listened to us were taken care of because that's the way we are.

00:44:23.45
Mike
Yes, absolutely.

00:44:27.12
Mike
Yup.

00:44:27.99
Bill
And, you know, it is.

00:44:28.58
Mike
It's the way we were taught to be. It's not the way we are.

00:44:30.62
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:44:30.68
Bill
Oh, yeah. that You know what?

00:44:31.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:31.76
Bill
that's that's That's even a better point. That's even a better point. is It is the way that we were taught.

00:44:34.90
Mike
ahha

00:44:36.51
Bill
That's ah that's an excellent, excellent distinction because it is true.

00:44:38.81
Mike
it good

00:44:39.59
Bill
um But, yeah, the like the thing with this now, it's it's amazing over the last, you know, whatever it is, it's been for coming up on four and a half years now.

00:44:48.34
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:44:48.85
Bill
that we've been doing this podcast that when we do, when we've had situations like, and we've talked about it openly, there's certain times of the year when, you know, we get all the, we get flooded with these, you know, um requests, you know, for, Hey, you want a guest and do whatever, and blah, bla blah, blah.

00:45:00.00
Mike
hmm. Yeah, right.

00:45:02.74
Bill
And, you know, it's, I, I forward them to Mike, we take a look at them. And then a lot of times it's either, Hey, if, if the person, if we actually want the person on that causes me more work than if we don't, right.

00:45:11.26
Mike
Right.

00:45:15.10
Mike
Sure.

00:45:15.54
Bill
You know, and I'm never unkind to people. You know, it's always like we appreciate the response.

00:45:18.21
Mike
huh

00:45:20.22
Bill
We looked at it. and We don't think it's going fit for whatever reason.

00:45:21.44
Mike
Yeah. Right. Right.

00:45:24.09
Bill
Short couple of sentences and then we wish you we wish you the best.

00:45:24.40
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They don't need details. Just yeah, exactly. You know, it's not going to work. ah Have a good life.

00:45:31.28
Bill
Right.

00:45:31.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:31.83
Bill
You know, but here's the funny part. now Well, the fun part, I guess. The nice the the the thing that you know goes back to what you were just saying is not everyone, but there's been a ah large number of people that have approached us like that or commented or ah whatever, DM'd us, whatever the case is.

00:45:45.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:45:48.48
Bill
They're like, oh my God, you know, you either you guys got back to me or thank you for getting back to me so quick, you know?

00:45:48.73
Mike
h

00:45:53.27
Mike
Right. Right.

00:45:54.84
Bill
and um And I don't think about it because it's just, it's kind of, a it's what we do, you know, now.

00:45:55.01
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:00.04
Bill
It's what we do now.

00:46:00.06
Mike
Right. Yes, exactly.

00:46:02.14
Bill
But I mean, I was thinking the same thing that, um I mean, if we, if it got to the point where it was too much for me, um for instance, I think exactly.

00:46:09.27
Mike
Right.

00:46:10.15
Bill
I would find somebody that knew us that say, hey, do you want to do a little bit of, you know, like little bit of sideline work here?

00:46:12.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:16.47
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:46:16.79
Bill
You, somebody who listens to us and understands and would know how to respond and could do it in, you know, as they say, and I hate the term sometimes, but in our voice, you know.

00:46:19.45
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:46:24.89
Mike
Sure.

00:46:25.62
Bill
And with, with our sincerity, you know, or if they said, Hey, that this person saying this, this, and this, say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:27.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:31.46
Bill
Tell them about this part. And then just put that in your own words type of thing, you know, and do it that way.

00:46:34.81
Mike
Right.

00:46:36.26
Bill
But yeah, I think it, you're right.

00:46:37.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:37.94
Bill
That's, that's kind of what, not even kind of, that is what made us, um you know, what, whatever this thing is, that's what made this, what it is, you know?

00:46:45.40
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:46:45.61
Bill
So don't think I want to get away from that.

00:46:46.08
Mike
Exactly. I mean, again, we are what we are and we try to practice these principles in all our affairs and this is one of our affairs, so I guess we'll fucking practice those principles.

00:46:56.92
Bill
Right. And you know, it's funny. And I, again, I wasn't going to bring this up either, but it had no intention on doing it, but it just kind of popped into my head. So over the last, um and I've noticed that probably over the last handful of weeks, maybe even longer than that.

00:47:08.86
Bill
So all of these, and I didn't even realize were using, or that I've been using ChatGPT and we've been doing these images now for a year. Cause I mean, some of these first images are coming up from a year ago when I started doing it.

00:47:20.82
Mike
and Okay.

00:47:21.85
Bill
So, and I'm like, God damn, I just didn't realize it. um and then you know at at that time i'm not saying it was revolutionary but there weren't as many people using ai to develop images as they as there are now and if you go on instagram and facebook and and all those sort of things i could pick out an ai image and it doesn't take me but a second and i know you can too because and if you look at them i know you're going to see the same um thing that looks like

00:47:33.40
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:47:40.86
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right.

00:47:46.58
Mike
I mean, I've seen stuff that looks like ours. I mean, I'll be, you know, scrolling through.

00:47:50.01
Bill
right

00:47:51.34
Mike
Is that us? No, that's not us. That's somebody else, but it looks exactly like our shit. Yep.

00:47:56.52
Bill
100% exactly what i was what I was just going to say.

00:47:57.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:47:58.66
Bill
That you know when you look at it, you can't tell anymore. You can tell because you know that we're dealing with ah a technology. And I say we as a society that's at the same level.

00:48:04.98
Mike
o

00:48:07.46
Bill
It doesn't matter now.

00:48:08.15
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:08.58
Bill
Granted, the AI, whatever it is, the the portal that I use, my app right now that I use through ChatGPT, knows my my background and my history and what I've done because there's certain things you can say, save this to memory, save this part here.

00:48:19.74
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:48:22.76
Bill
There's certain things you've got to leave a chat up to for it to reach back on if it needs to. So I've learned all those sort of things.

00:48:26.61
Mike
Right.

00:48:28.00
Bill
So it it it understands. So if I if i say, hey, um give me something with our, I want to put together something with our podcast and want it to be this. they're like, okay. It understands what our podcast is, our tone, everything because of what we've done and what I've told it to remember.

00:48:37.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:40.82
Mike
Right.

00:48:43.41
Bill
But

00:48:43.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:44.79
Bill
but The technology itself, unless I tell it to do something different, it's going to give me the same.

00:48:49.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:50.98
Bill
It's like, you know, you any McDonald's you go to, your hamburger is going to look relatively the same.

00:48:51.51
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:54.94
Mike
yeah now Yeah.

00:48:55.83
Bill
not going to look exactly the same, but you're going to be able like to like, it's a McDonald's hamburger. You know, it's, there's no doubt.

00:48:59.89
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:49:00.91
Bill
It looks like fucking shit, but it looks, it's a McDonald's hamburger.

00:49:01.18
Mike
Yeah. Yes. Right.

00:49:04.66
Bill
So I had this idea and I went to my, my chat GPT and I said, okay, um, everything out there is looking the same. I'm like, I'm, I don't want, we don't want to be like everyone else.

00:49:11.13
Mike
Right.

00:49:13.95
Bill
That's the point of what we do, you know?

00:49:14.20
Mike
You're right.

00:49:15.51
Bill
So what can you do to make, to make this look different?

00:49:15.66
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, work harder, computer boy.

00:49:19.86
Bill
So Well, in I'm, I'm, I was asking it for direction.

00:49:22.87
Mike
Yeah. yeah

00:49:25.69
Bill
You know, what do you, what, what ideas do, can you give me, what can I do out of everything?

00:49:29.05
Mike
Right. What can I do? Yeah, to feed you to make it different, right?

00:49:32.47
Bill
Yeah, everything you know about us, you understand our tone. What can we do to to be different? I said, i don't I don't want everything that I'm telling you to do to look like everyone else. you know And you know it just comes back, you're like, oh, yeah.

00:49:42.11
Mike
Right.

00:49:44.82
Bill
And it said almost the same thing that I just said. you know The way the technology is, blah, blah, blah, unless you tell us differently, blah, blah, blah.

00:49:48.38
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:49:49.74
Bill
So over the last couple of days, I just started, and I started putting these images out. They look like pictures. I don't know if you've seen them. just the last day or so.

00:49:56.02
Mike
ah Yeah.

00:49:57.85
Bill
And then there's one, like there's a, there's a, you're on like like a counter of a truck stop type of thing.

00:50:01.72
Mike
Yeah, I saw that one.

00:50:02.09
Bill
And it's got, yeah, like it's got a backpack that has our logo on it and the coffee mug, for instance.

00:50:02.83
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:50:06.68
Bill
So um it's this series that it started building for us.

00:50:06.87
Mike
Right.

00:50:10.73
Bill
It's like, okay, let's, let's try this. You know, let's try something that, cause one of them has our logo.

00:50:12.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:15.34
Bill
Some of them our logo on it. You know, no website or anything like that.

00:50:17.14
Mike
Right.

00:50:18.58
Bill
No podcast thing.

00:50:18.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:19.86
Bill
So basically what it said is like, let's try this. Let's try to not, not push anything and see what happens.

00:50:25.41
Mike
Right.

00:50:26.10
Bill
And I said, fine, because i don't give a fuck. You know, i want I want this to be something different.

00:50:28.54
Mike
Right.

00:50:31.38
Bill
I want somebody to stop on this and be like, what is this?

00:50:31.83
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:34.42
Bill
And then they take a look. Even if it doesn't give us anything else as far as a boost, at least we're fucking different.

00:50:41.23
Mike
Great. Mm-hmm.

00:50:41.72
Bill
You know? So, and that just kind of made me think about it when you were just talking about that. And, you know, we, we've never been, i mean, I mean, yes, I just, I just explained what our marketing idea is and maybe other people would do it too.

00:50:52.53
Mike
Yeah, all right, yeah.

00:50:53.46
Bill
Well, fine. Fuck you. I don't give a shit.

00:50:54.74
Mike
yeah yeah

00:50:55.26
Bill
You know, you're, it's not like you can't see it online and try to copy it anyhow. So what should I, should I pretend we're not doing it?

00:50:59.42
Mike
Right.

00:51:01.50
Bill
Don't talk about it.

00:51:02.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:02.99
Bill
But um the the whole point is now, if, if you out there, if you're, if another podcast is listening to us and you do that, Fuck you too, because then we're the ones that thought about it.

00:51:13.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:13.53
Bill
so So you're following us anyhow, so fuck you twice.

00:51:17.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:19.00
Bill
But no, I don't know. i'm not I'm not trying to be that fucking arrogant. I just thought, I'm like, come on, man. just some you know we We have this, and you're the one that said it a couple years ago, I think. You're like you like, yeah, what we're doing is kind of punk rock, which I thought was one of the coolest things.

00:51:30.81
Mike
right now yeah

00:51:32.56
Bill
You said some cool things. Don't get me wrong. But that was one of the coolest things you've ever said about our podcast. And I'm like, like yeah. yeah

00:51:39.58
Mike
yeah no you know you have not

00:51:40.78
Bill
i've I've never been referred to as punk rock, so I'm like... no Well, thank thank you. Thank you. But now something that I'm a part of has been, which I thought I was extremely happy about that.

00:51:49.91
Mike
sure

00:51:51.71
Bill
So, yes.

00:51:51.83
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, all right, so let's be corporate shills now and take a break, and we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

00:51:53.91
Bill
yes so

00:51:56.47
Bill
yes

00:52:13.24
Bill
all right everyone welcome back oh hear that i got a little bit of a high note there all right everyone ooh okay let's let's try this again welcome once again no just kidding i'm not gonna i'm not gonna try to so so so i can't and i can't do it sober not mature all right um so you uh real quick this is kind of a sideline thing but i just saw it here you you spent some time in california didn't you my friend mike

00:52:17.47
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Working that muscle.

00:52:27.42
Mike
oh h

00:52:33.21
Mike
yes uh yeah entirely too much but yes did mm-hmm

00:52:40.38
Bill
Did you specifically spend some time in Hollywood, Mike?

00:52:44.25
Mike
i did

00:52:45.75
Bill
all right so dateline hollywood this is recent there's an abandoned construction site okay and it's ah now been overrun by coyotes okay so the first time i heard what i you know that's the first thing you hear you're like well that's it's kind of fucked up you know because uh i mean that can't be a good thing right you know bunch of fucking coyotes in exactly touche um

00:52:48.54
Mike
h

00:52:51.38
Mike
man

00:52:55.55
Mike
All right.

00:53:04.02
Mike
yeah Well, not for the roadrunner.

00:53:09.94
Mike
you

00:53:11.10
Bill
But so I ended up looking into it because they were talking about something else. So to begin with this, this construction site, whatever it was, it was ah whatever it was, townhouses, condominiums, doesn't fucking matter.

00:53:14.87
Mike
Well.

00:53:21.18
Bill
This um building company ran out of their the funding ran out.

00:53:21.53
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:25.33
Bill
And so it's been abandoned, I guess, for a long time, however long it's been.

00:53:26.04
Mike
Yeah. Okay.

00:53:29.05
Bill
um But what happened was, is that to begin with it, they ended up getting a lot of homeless individuals in there, clean the homeless out and then coyotes moved in, you know, so.

00:53:35.58
Mike
Sure. h Nature will provide.

00:53:40.41
Bill
And.

00:53:41.90
Mike
Yes.

00:53:42.39
Bill
Right. So now at this point at this point, because what they were talking about on the on the radio, which i thought was this I thought was kind of funny because California and the peace and love and animals and all this different stuff, whatever the deal is, and I looked it up to find out, there are ordinances in place right now in the um you know in in the Hollywood in that area that is preventing them from forcefully trying to get these coyotes out of there.

00:53:43.29
Mike
Prevail.

00:53:52.17
Mike
Yeah. Sure.

00:54:05.66
Mike
Sure, of course.

00:54:06.23
Bill
So...

00:54:06.34
Mike
Yeah, the snake is eating its own tail.

00:54:09.24
Bill
Right. And what what was kind of funny what they were talking about on the radio, which they were they werere laughing about, but I mean, it's true. It was easier for them to literally, you know, get homeless people out.

00:54:18.30
Mike
Oh, sure. Uh-huh.

00:54:19.29
Bill
So homeless people are worth basically less, you know, I mean, less less hassle then or that they're not protected as much as a bunch of fucking coyotes.

00:54:27.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:28.51
Bill
And I'm like, holy fucking California.

00:54:28.74
Mike
Right.

00:54:30.92
Bill
Yeah.

00:54:31.05
Mike
That sounds about right.

00:54:32.54
Bill
it just It just kind of cracked me up. I'm like, really? So you know everyone talks about, oh, the homeless, we got to fix this. Now we're going kick these motherfuckers out, but we can't get these goddamn coyotes out.

00:54:39.65
Mike
Yep. Right.

00:54:41.53
Bill
But but the other the other problem, though, is that, I mean, obviously there's a big pack of them. um It's a nesting time with their cubs and whatever, so they're you know a little bit more aggressive and blah, blah, blah.

00:54:45.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:49.51
Mike
Yep.

00:54:49.77
Bill
but So there's other things along with it. So they they couldn't just go in there and go like, here, coyote.

00:54:54.01
Mike
Here, puppy.

00:54:56.60
Bill
And they can't they can't dart them, or I guess they can't do anything like that because, you know, it gets

00:55:00.09
Mike
Right. Yeah, because they yeah they won't allow themselves to actually fucking manage the the nature. Right.

00:55:06.74
Bill
Right. Which it just, it, it just kind of cracked me up. I'm like, yeah, well, that's, that's what you get, you know, peace, love.

00:55:11.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:12.18
Bill
And you got a bunch of fucking coyotes and in in a residential neighborhood. So anyhow, it was just, it was just kind of funny.

00:55:16.47
Mike
Nice. Yeah.

00:55:18.18
Bill
So, all right. So back to, come on, Mike, let's, let's talk some sobriety stuff.

00:55:22.14
Mike
Yes.

00:55:22.68
Bill
Okay.

00:55:22.70
Mike
Okay. Well, it's about time.

00:55:25.18
Bill
No, um, uh, let's see. I put, I put main thing on here. I've made myself a note that said main thing I'm just going to read this and let's see if it makes sense this time. Okay. All right, so we we get sober, we do the work, get over that initial hump. So that's number one. But then, as you always say, from the point forward or from that point forward, we can't stop, right?

00:55:44.85
Mike
Right, right.

00:55:45.69
Bill
And whether it's a 12-step program or something else, obviously, you have to keep doing the work.

00:55:48.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:49.77
Bill
and And I know that we've talked about this before, and this is kind of my parentheses, my question part of it or statement part.

00:55:50.15
Mike
Yep.

00:55:55.09
Bill
I know we talked about it before, but um i I wanted you to explain the the why behind of that in your words, because I like how you talk about that. And my opinion is you have a little bit of a unique perspective on, you know, number one, having done this before and having, um you know, unsuccessfully, let's say, um' done this before, i'm not doing the daily work and and that sort of thing.

00:56:03.83
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:09.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:12.22
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:56:15.72
Bill
So the basics of it is you get sober.

00:56:15.74
Mike
Right.

00:56:18.48
Bill
you It doesn't matter what the fuck you do. So anyone out there, if you're listening to a CDO to a 12 step, it doesn't fucking matter.

00:56:23.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Nope.

00:56:24.28
Bill
At some point, once you get sober, you have to do something or it's at least our opinion.

00:56:26.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:28.62
Bill
If you do nothing with yourself, you're going fucking drink again.

00:56:30.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:56:31.44
Bill
You know, and people like, well, I didn't go anywhere. Well, you did something, whatever that something is, you got to keep doing those things or you're going up in trouble again.

00:56:34.51
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:56:38.60
Bill
So again, in your words, in your mindset, what, why can't you stop?

00:56:38.94
Mike
Absolutely.

00:56:43.19
Bill
What does that mean? How does it work? What is all that? You know mean? I just want to just, okay.

00:56:46.01
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, well, i mean, it's it okay. It's a disease, right? So, and it, there is no cure. Um, so we have to manage it. Right. And, and, you know, it's like diabetes, diabetes, um, got the sugars. Um, you gotta, right. You gotta fucking manage it, man. You gotta, you know, you've,

00:57:08.55
Mike
Got to do stuff every day. Otherwise, it gets out of control. And our disease, getting out of control, is drinking and using. um Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's it, man. So, we have to take our insulin. We have to manage the disease. We have to do things every day. And if we stop doing those things, the disease will come back and it will start doing what it does.

00:57:32.57
Mike
And um it's that fucking simple. you know And it's not...

00:57:35.85
Bill
Right.

00:57:37.13
Mike
You know, and yes, the things get easier. um It's, you know, it's working a muscle, right? The more you fucking do that barbell curl, the easier it gets. The muscle gets stronger.

00:57:47.89
Mike
You can do more of them. It's easier to do. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It becomes routine. It's just part of what happens. um Same thing with this, man. You know, you you keep doing this stuff and it becomes routine. It becomes part of your life. And, but again, if you stop, you Fuck, man, that disease didn't go away. There is no cure for alcoholism. All we get is a daily reprieve contingent upon the maintenance of our spiritual progress program, perspective, whatever the fuck that word is. um

00:58:19.70
Mike
Yeah, you know, that's it, man. Maintenance.

00:58:22.25
Bill
Right.

00:58:22.34
Mike
That's all. You know, as long as we do the maintenance, we're fine. We stop doing the maintenance, we're fucked. That's all.

00:58:27.91
Bill
Right.

00:58:28.46
Mike
That's it. that's There's nothing more to it.

00:58:32.60
Bill
Can it be that simple?

00:58:34.04
Mike
Yes, it can. i got to go now.

00:58:37.82
Bill
But yeah. And, and I appreciate that. and I know that seems kind of you know, I mean, it, it is, it's repetitive and you've said it a hundred thousand times and in all that, but exactly, exactly.

00:58:42.74
Mike
a So, yeah, so is that curl. I got to fucking keep repeating it.

00:58:47.93
Bill
Yeah, it's the same reason we got to keep doing this shit every day. You got to keep but you know saying this shit on here every day.

00:58:50.64
Mike
Yep, I got it right. 12-step shit, man. yeah Just because I said it once, everybody didn't fucking hear me.

00:58:55.83
Bill
and

00:58:57.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:57.69
Bill
Right. Yeah. Just because, well, you, you work the steps once.

00:59:01.91
Mike
who

00:59:02.36
Bill
Yeah, I wear, i wear. I'm thinking about working the steps again, Mike, where should I, but you know it's funny that you, that you talked about the daily reprieve because literally right above this, I wrote that down.

00:59:13.91
Bill
There was a, and I'm not going to say what podcast it was. Cause I, I, I liked the podcast. I liked the individual that said this.

00:59:19.90
Mike
Sure right, yeah Mm-hmm

00:59:20.39
Bill
But the individual was telling a story and was having a a fucked up couple of days. And basically it said that, you know, had a, had this, that this, this culmination day is just everything.

00:59:30.85
Bill
Everything was fucking going off, you know, and ah the person's been sober for a while, you know, So the person is telling the story at the the meeting and retelling it on the podcast.

00:59:41.41
Bill
And then the person's like, well, goes it's a it's a good thing that we get that daily reprieve, right?

00:59:42.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:46.21
Bill
And he goes, up yeah, good thing that my my spiritual condition you know was was in good shape.

00:59:50.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:51.01
Bill
And I'm like, I'm i literally yelling at my phone, maintenance, maintenance.

00:59:51.32
Mike
Right.

00:59:58.00
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:58.52
Bill
yeah But um now I'm not going mention it again. It's one of the, one of the three podcasts I listened to what I, I respect the individual.

01:00:02.14
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:00:04.95
Bill
it just, I I've heard, I've heard it talked about before in that podcast and they say it right there a people.

01:00:06.39
Mike
Sure.

01:00:09.69
Mike
Right.

01:00:10.87
Bill
So it's whatever, but.

01:00:10.90
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right. Yeah, I know. But yeah, i again, I don't even, it's right. It was a huge peeve early on because, you know, I had that epiphany and and went, oh, shit, maintenance.

01:00:22.21
Mike
That's the word in there.

01:00:22.78
Bill
Right.

01:00:23.29
Mike
And then I started noticing how many people, again, people I respected, people that were working great programs and doing the thing and all that. And and yeah, you know, and yeah. happy, joyous, and free, and all that, but they'd leave the fucking word maintenance out, and I'm like, oh my God, what's wrong with you?

01:00:39.28
Mike
yeah That's the fucking word.

01:00:39.29
Bill
Right.

01:00:41.16
Mike
that's That's the whole point of the entire thing. Not the spiritual condition.

01:00:43.89
Bill
Right.

01:00:45.40
Mike
Not the, you know, and you know yes, that there is no cure. That's very important. Absolutely. But, um yeah yeah, okay, then after that, what's the most important thing?

01:00:55.77
Mike
Maintenance. So, fuck, yeah, I know.

01:00:57.98
Bill
Right.

01:00:58.46
Mike
yeah Spiritual condition, la, la, la, la.

01:01:00.57
Bill
Yeah.

01:01:01.54
Mike
Shut up, asswipe. if you're doing the maintenance unit, the spiritual condition comes with it.

01:01:03.61
Bill
Yeah.

01:01:07.02
Bill
Right. Well, and and that and that's the thing, too, that you always say that. And I think it's the it's the easiest way to say it. Everyone, you know, like when um but we had Austin on last week and when he said that he that he relapsed, you know, and when he, you know, he didn't go into he handled his his story perfectly.

01:01:17.94
Mike
Right.

01:01:23.24
Bill
He gave just enough information and a lot of detailed information on on these key points, which really drew, I think, all of us and into a story really well.

01:01:26.78
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:01:31.74
Bill
But

01:01:31.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:32.70
Bill
you know i i no Neither one of us brought up like, well, why did you why'd you relapse after so many years?

01:01:37.63
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:01:38.10
Bill
I mean, we we know why he did.

01:01:39.58
Mike
Yeah, we know.

01:01:40.02
Bill
it Yeah, he stopped.

01:01:40.33
Mike
You stopped.

01:01:41.70
Bill
you know And it it doesn't matter what he stopped. He stopped.

01:01:45.08
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:01:45.11
Bill
you know And we we know that.

01:01:45.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:46.23
Bill
you know And that's the same thing. like ah you know The same deal. i can I can get up in the morning and I can be really fucking tired and I can be a little off on on what I'm doing and not not feel the greatest um whatever day it is.

01:01:55.80
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.

01:01:59.35
Bill
And I may not even, i may not even really, um you know, comprehend, let alone retain what the fuck I read.

01:02:05.17
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:02:08.60
Bill
But I sat down and I took the action, you know, every day, every fucking day, you know.

01:02:09.25
Mike
Yep. Yep, absolutely. Yep. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, there are absolutely, there are days where, you know, I didn't get a good night's sleep, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:20.92
Mike
blah And, yeah, I'm not retaining. I'm i'm foggy. i' But I'm fucking doing it. Yeah, and's and I'm grabbing something.

01:02:25.91
Bill
Right.

01:02:27.56
Mike
You know, yes, it's the action of doing it, and it's also – Even if subconsciously something's creeping in there, it's creeping in there. Even if I'm not realizing it at fucking 610 in the morning when I'm half awake and, you know, and my fucking back hurts and I don't want to go to goddamn work and it's raining out, and blah, blah, blah.

01:02:50.52
Mike
You know, yeah, right. Yeah. But again, yeah, but I'm doing it. Something's creeping in and I'm taking the action. i'm going through the motion. I'm doing the maintenance.

01:03:01.15
Mike
That's it. Sometimes that's enough, you know?

01:03:03.21
Bill
Right.

01:03:03.84
Mike
Yeah. Sometimes it's, you know, on a Saturday when you're, you know, giving yourself an extra couple of minutes before you get to it and you are awake and, you know, you're paying attention and help even sometimes then, you know, it's a shitty reading that day.

01:03:19.78
Mike
It's a luck of the draw. And, you know, youre like this is garbage. ah But, you know, yeah even the bad readings, when I read them, I go, well, yeah, that's garbage.

01:03:29.90
Mike
Why is it garbage? Why is it not resonating with me? Because it doesn't you know, what they're saying either doesn't pertain to me. um That's not the way I do things.

01:03:40.36
Mike
You know, again, this is a wide road. It's a road that we're on, but it's wide. And, you know, maybe it's that's that fucking lane over there that somebody else needs to be in.

01:03:45.13
Bill
Right.

01:03:50.40
Mike
I'm in this lane over here. And but it reminds me that I'm in the lane I'm supposed to be. I don't need to be over in that other guy's lane where this shit makes sense to them.

01:04:00.58
Mike
you know, it's it's garbage to me.

01:04:00.99
Bill
Right.

01:04:03.34
Mike
And that's OK. You know, that's all right. it doesn't pertain to my program and how I do things, but I'm doing things. And that's it.

01:04:15.51
Bill
Hey, im I'm doing things, you know.

01:04:15.51
Mike
Yes. I'm doing things. I'm maybe stepping. I'm doing the work.

01:04:22.96
Bill
hey i'm over here doing some things you know get some get some things going on but uh you know and that that is the one and i i've been doing it for a long time i don't i can't even remember when i started um posting a reading someplace you know every every morning and it was before you know it's before facebook it was certainly before instagram and there was a uh whatever that sober grid i was on for a number of years that was a handful of years So, i mean, all in all, I may be, if I'm doing the math and this stuff, no, no.

01:04:24.95
Mike
Yes, right. yeah That's right.

01:04:38.45
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:04:42.46
Mike
Right.

01:04:52.45
Mike
AOL chat rooms.

01:04:56.15
Bill
But um it's got, it's, if it hasn't been seven years, it's been, well, or 10 years, it's been every bit of seven, you know?

01:05:01.21
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:05:04.09
Bill
And the the thing that is, and even on those, and I was just thinking about that, even on those days that I'm really tired or or kind of out of it, I still, I have to. I have to pay attention this shit, you know.

01:05:13.98
Mike
Yep. Yep.

01:05:15.67
Bill
That's bad way to put it. I have to pay attention to these items that I'm reading because I need to pick out something, you know.

01:05:17.91
Mike
Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

01:05:22.98
Bill
And if I, because I know, here's here's the other thing.

01:05:23.43
Mike
Right.

01:05:26.55
Bill
I know that if I can't find one in the four readings that I do, then I got to go fucking find one in my, in my photos, which is fine.

01:05:29.86
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

01:05:34.07
Bill
I've got hundreds of them, you know, and I scroll back and it comes up to whatever date that I look at it and I'm like, i don't like that one.

01:05:35.35
Mike
Right.

01:05:41.73
Bill
And I go, i don't like that one.

01:05:41.98
Mike
a

01:05:43.01
Bill
And then I'm looking, I'm like, I don't want to spend time doing all this shit, but I, but I want, but again, now I'm,

01:05:46.13
Mike
right exactly I'm gonna go find something in a god damn 24 hour book and that first reading I did today gonna find three words in there that work for me god damn it because I ain't going through all that other shit

01:05:57.88
Bill
okay And well, and the you know, it's like, yeah but sometimes when I'll start going through my phone and I've got, again, I've got every day for years, you know? So, I mean, it's, it's easy enough for me to find one, but it just sometimes takes, takes longer than, than I want.

01:06:10.71
Mike
right Yeah.

01:06:12.50
Bill
But, but it does, like it forces me to, it forces me to, if nothing else, I got to be involved a little bit, you know?

01:06:17.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:06:19.80
Bill
So, um okay.

01:06:20.47
Mike
And it's kind of why I, and I get it.

01:06:20.88
Bill
So,

01:06:22.65
Mike
Cause I mean, that's kind of why I do God grant me last because even if the first two or, you know, yeah whatever, um, usually it'll at least be a line in God grant me.

01:06:34.31
Mike
That'll go, I'll go, okay. Yeah, that's that. That's something. I don't know what it is, but that's something that's enough.

01:06:37.78
Bill
Right. Right.

01:06:40.57
Mike
Get my eye ass out of bed and and get on with this shit.

01:06:45.06
Bill
And, you know, I do that my fourth book. I always do last. So now it's um Touchstones that I'm doing last. And that's still, I mean, even though I've been reading it for at least a year, this might even be, this is not my second.

01:06:57.38
Bill
I don't think it's my third year, but I've been reading it for a while. um But I still, it's it's to the point, or it's not to the point yet where, um i'm it's not like God grant me the other ones where, you know, every once in a while, it's like, I i remember this reading every year type of thing, you know.

01:07:00.06
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:11.70
Mike
Right.

01:07:12.49
Bill
It's not there, but i don't know.

01:07:12.67
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:07:14.17
Bill
It's again, it kind of, it just is what it is with the order. But yes, there are certain days when I'm just like, oh, fuck it. Search for a fucking reading to post, you know.

01:07:20.74
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:24.09
Bill
And, you know, a lot of times the ones that I dig out from, you know, it could be a couple of years ago on a random Tuesday and, you know, fucking July or January.

01:07:28.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:07:30.81
Bill
And it gets, it actually gets more people. They'll, you know, they'll repost or they'll comment on it or like it. And I'm like, what what are the odds?

01:07:37.11
Mike
Right.

01:07:37.89
Bill
Again, what are the fucking odds, you know?

01:07:38.04
Mike
yeah Yeah. Well, you know, we're not supposed to worry about the outcome.

01:07:43.03
Bill
yeah

01:07:43.14
Mike
We're just supposed to fucking do it.

01:07:44.70
Bill
Oh, I agree. It just, a it cracks me up every time though when it happens because I'm like,

01:07:47.06
Mike
Yeah, yeah, right. Well, yeah I mean, yeah and that's just it. When we don't worry about the outcome outcome and we just do it, it tends to work out better.

01:07:52.70
Bill
Right.

01:07:53.67
Mike
Imagine that.

01:07:53.91
Bill
Yeah. Which is, yeah. Again, imagine that. Imagine that.

01:07:57.46
Mike
Okay.

01:07:58.81
Bill
All right. so um So that was the part about that. the Obviously, don't stop. um So this came up on on Sober Friends. It was just kind of an interesting question, which I don't know that we ever talked about.

01:08:09.53
Bill
But um again, just a general question came up for between Matt and Steve.

01:08:10.15
Mike
Okay.

01:08:15.56
Bill
And they said it was the first time I think Matt asked, he said, the first time that you ever heard the word alcoholic, do you remember what you envisioned or did you envision anything?

01:08:26.40
Mike
Hmm.

01:08:26.55
Bill
And I don't know that I've ever thought about that, about, you know, if somebody said the first time you heard alcoholic, if you knew what that was or or even a point where you were you knew what it was and had a vision of it, does that?

01:08:29.35
Mike
Meh.

01:08:33.08
Mike
Right.

01:08:37.78
Mike
right right right i mean yeah no i get it um you know i mean i'm very young clearly um and you know yeah you you think of a fucking wino you know ah the the guy on the cover of aqualung um there's a there's a timely reference for you kids out there goddamn jethro tell album from 1972 um But yeah, you know, a dirty guy, beard, scraggly hair, overcoat, dirty holes in it, you know, fucked up shoes, bottle in a paper bag.

01:08:48.95
Bill
Right.

01:08:55.38
Bill
correct Right.

01:09:11.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:09:12.17
Bill
Right.

01:09:12.63
Mike
You know, sitting on a park bench. Right. Yeah. That's an alcoholic. Why no? Um, Yeah, you know, um clearly that that can be, um but generally not, you know, ive whatever, man, doctors, lawyers, priests, whatever.

01:09:22.41
Bill
Right.

01:09:30.66
Mike
Yeah, you know, all of us, you know, acts actresses, actors, yeah, everybody, you know, it knows no definition.

01:09:33.71
Bill
Right.

01:09:41.85
Bill
Well, and think about, um, I mean, Andy Griffith, you know, that, uh, Otis, I mean, he was, everyone knew he was a town drunk, you know, there was, it was goddamn TV show from what that was, was that sixties?

01:09:44.66
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

01:09:51.10
Mike
Early 60s, yeah.

01:09:52.02
Bill
Yeah. You know, so, um, I, I, I didn't think about that when I wrote this down. I just thought about that when you were talking about it, that that could have been my Otis, kind of fit my, my first vision of an alcoholic, but, but you know, the other thing too, is that like when, when, um, uh, mom and, and my dad were together.

01:09:56.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:00.22
Mike
Sure. and I'm sure that was a lot of it. Yeah, a lot of people.

01:10:10.14
Bill
I mean, we moved out of Parma when I was eight, you know, so in figure that was 77.

01:10:13.14
Mike
Right.

01:10:16.91
Bill
Our dad got sober in 81.

01:10:17.46
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:10:18.95
Bill
I remember plenty of times when, I mean, we got, did ever tell you, we got locked out of the house.

01:10:19.34
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:10:22.63
Bill
He locked us out of the house.

01:10:24.02
Mike
me Sounds vaguely familiar.

01:10:26.81
Bill
Well, the the short story on that. So there's plenty of fights and we knew that he drank and we knew that, you know, certain things.

01:10:31.00
Mike
Right.

01:10:32.13
Bill
And I remember being over at, we were over at neighbor's houses and, you know, all these, all these different things.

01:10:32.41
Mike
Right.

01:10:37.66
Bill
I remember all these instances where there was alcohol involved and it was a bad situation.

01:10:38.61
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:10:42.14
Mike
Right.

01:10:42.26
Bill
These vague situations. But um there was one, it was one like a Saturday or a Sunday, whatever it was. And he was getting all lit up doing something.

01:10:48.66
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:51.09
Bill
So mom took us over to grandma grandpa Jay's house for the day. And when we came back, um she went to, I think we, she tried to get in the the side door.

01:10:55.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:00.33
Bill
So, we you know, the house is in Parma, you know, the side door in the driveway and then the front door.

01:11:02.46
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:11:04.63
Bill
So couldn't couldn't open the door and like you know put the key in. That wouldn't work. And then she's trying to get the front door. That wouldn't work. So she ended up, um I think, I don't know. She may have sent one of us through the window, if I remember correctly.

01:11:16.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:17.33
Bill
And then I think she came in. So what he did, um he took these blocks of, there were two by fours that he cut cut down, and he nailed the door shut.

01:11:25.71
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:11:28.31
Bill
So nailed, I mean, literally for in the into the door and into the wall with these blocks of wood, you know, two of them on top and bottom for both doors and locked us out.

01:11:30.17
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

01:11:36.95
Bill
And he's passed out in bed, you know?

01:11:37.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:11:38.65
Bill
So, mean

01:11:41.27
Mike
Seems logical to me.

01:11:42.33
Bill
i well, yeah, you want to go someplace. Well, I guess you're not coming back in, you know?

01:11:45.62
Mike
yeah, yeah. Good. Yeah, you coming in here, motherfuckers.

01:11:48.70
Bill
Right. But.

01:11:49.49
Mike
Yeah, right. I'll show you. Mm-hmm.

01:11:51.19
Bill
But so sometime between that eight and 12, I knew what an alcoholic was, you know, because he, I know he was going to, he was trying to get sober at least for a couple of years prior to that.

01:11:54.36
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:11:59.61
Mike
Right. Sure.

01:12:00.15
Bill
But I, I don't, I don't remember having that vision except for knowing what it was with him.

01:12:05.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:05.27
Bill
but not necessarily saying that, well, I, I envisioned my, my dad, you know, for instance, you know, so right.

01:12:09.43
Mike
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. you You don't process that. Yeah. Same with me.

01:12:13.64
Bill
Right.

01:12:14.06
Mike
Right. i I mean, I never, you know, right. Yeah. Not until I was, you know, much older did I realize my mom was an alcoholic. Yeah, absolutely not. You know, she was just fucking insane.

01:12:25.30
Bill
ha

01:12:25.39
Mike
That much I knew.

01:12:26.17
Bill
Right. yeah

01:12:27.15
Mike
I knew that pretty early on.

01:12:27.38
Bill
Right.

01:12:28.71
Mike
Yeah, she ain't right. ah But I didn't know why. Yeah.

01:12:32.41
Bill
Right.

01:12:32.67
Mike
Couldn't put it into words and all that stuff. But yeah, you know, right. Yeah, we don't know. Yeah, you're a fucking kid. You don't have the capacity to process that yet. You know, not until we get into it and, hey, this is what alcoholic is. It's me.

01:12:47.70
Bill
Yeah. You look at that and you're like, you're like, God damn, you know, all these, all these pieces are like falling into place now.

01:12:51.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:52.46
Bill
Just to imagine that.

01:12:54.17
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:55.99
Bill
All right. So a couple of, a couple of things. So the, the thing that I brought up, going go back to some of the highlights of what I read last week that everyone before was screaming at their, at their podcast, Kenny Rogers, Kenny Rogers.

01:13:05.46
Mike
Ah, yes. Ah, yes.

01:13:07.93
Bill
yeah

01:13:07.95
Mike
Kenny Rogers.

01:13:09.21
Bill
So, so tell me your to yeah Kenny Rogers.

01:13:09.21
Mike
Yes. Yes.

01:13:11.69
Bill
You knew you would know it because,

01:13:12.28
Mike
I didn't know. I remember, i remember the story that was going to remind me of it, but I have no idea the context.

01:13:19.19
Bill
No, I know, but the story was there was the thing on what, Mad mad TV?

01:13:22.68
Mike
matt Oh, yeah, Matt TV, Will Sasso's impersonation of Kenny Rogers swilling the bottle of Jack Daniels, and it sounded nothing like Kenny Rogers, and yeah, whatever.

01:13:22.88
Bill
Okay.

01:13:28.33
Bill
Okay.

01:13:32.20
Mike
Yeah. But I i remember, again, I remember the story.

01:13:33.62
Bill
hey

01:13:36.56
Mike
i have no idea why I'm remembering the story.

01:13:39.26
Bill
No, I know. But the the all that I did was went with Austin. I said, this is how stupid we are. I write down these things. I read these headlines, and that was one of them. And you're like, you're like well, you ruined it now. you write all I'm like, you're not going remember. And you're like, well, I'll remember the Kenny Rogers, goddammit, because.

01:13:50.48
Mike
Hmm.

01:13:51.70
Bill
And then you just told me that story.

01:13:51.96
Mike
right.

01:13:53.39
Bill
It's so fucking funny.

01:13:53.86
Mike
Yep.

01:13:54.74
Bill
You're like, I have no idea. And I really did. I really thought that you were going to remember it. So, okay.

01:14:03.16
Mike
disappoint. Once again, I disappoint people.

01:14:04.23
Bill
I'm

01:14:06.33
Bill
So I'm not going to explain who the ah who the celebrity is to begin with, with the Kenny Rogers story.

01:14:07.21
Mike
Okay.

01:14:12.21
Bill
I want to tell you the Kenny Rogers story, and then I'll tell you who the celebrity is. And I got two other stories for him.

01:14:15.58
Mike
Okay. yeah

01:14:18.55
Bill
So he was ah he was on this ah this person I'm going to talk about was on Rogan. It might have been some months ago i don't know. Let's flip it back. But anyhow, he said that um his his dad's favorite singer was Kenny Rogers.

01:14:25.23
Mike
Okay.

01:14:30.46
Mike
Okay.

01:14:31.08
Bill
So he went to his first concert was Kenny Rogers, second concert, Kenny Rogers, third concert, Kenny Rogers.

01:14:31.09
Mike
All right. Sure.

01:14:36.72
Bill
So his dad just kept taking him to Kenny Rogers.

01:14:37.22
Mike
Right.

01:14:38.56
Bill
And the guys, the celebrities like, you know, dad, can't we go see whoever he would name, you know, at that point.

01:14:38.65
Mike
All right.

01:14:42.26
Mike
sure

01:14:43.22
Bill
And he's our age or a little bit, just maybe a little bit older, but within our realm, you know, of our age is probably somewhere between you and I type of thing, you know?

01:14:46.81
Mike
who right right

01:14:51.10
Bill
And then he said, he said he's years, years later as, as an adult. And after he's famous and in all sorts of things, he gets in an elevator and there's, there's Kenny Rogers.

01:14:57.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:59.66
Mike
Caddy Rogers.

01:15:00.84
Bill
And he's like, he goes, God, he goes, Kenny, he goes, so nice to meet you. He goes, I got to tell you, he goes, you'll never guess what my first concert was. And Kenny Rogers laughs and he goes, yep. He goes, it was you. And he goes, Kenny, what do you know what my second concert is? And Kenny's like, I have no idea.

01:15:16.28
Bill
And he tells him, he's like, it was you. And the Kenny Rogers now had enough of them, basically.

01:15:18.04
Mike
a

01:15:20.58
Bill
And he goes, ah Kenny goes, guess what my third concert was?

01:15:20.98
Mike
Sure.

01:15:23.89
Mike
a

01:15:24.04
Bill
And Kenny Rogers like, you got to be fucking kidding me, right? And he's like, no. He goes, my dad was such a huge fan. He goes, the first three concerts I ever saw were your concerts. So he's basically saying that Kenny Rogers is completely fucking annoyed with him, obviously, at this point.

01:15:36.41
Mike
Sure.

01:15:36.99
Bill
And he's sitting there, and they're still going up, and they're in a big hotel with a, you know, however...

01:15:39.70
Mike
Yeah, right. Trapped. Uh-huh.

01:15:42.28
Bill
There weren't many floors.

01:15:42.69
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:15:43.99
Bill
So he just dead he's sitting there and he feels this celebrity feels uncomfortable.

01:15:44.47
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:15:47.55
Bill
So he goes to Kenny, turns to what he said. He goes, by the way, he goes I love your chicken.

01:15:52.89
Mike
yeah

01:15:54.78
Bill
Kenny Rogers just looked at him says, fuck you.

01:15:57.02
Mike
yeah

01:15:58.10
Bill
And then you shortly at the door opened and he fucking walked out. But that was his, it was Carrot Top.

01:16:00.63
Mike
a ha

01:16:02.26
Bill
It was this who did it.

01:16:02.74
Mike
ah Ah.

01:16:04.10
Bill
So I thought that was so fucking funny. So my my first question with that, any opinion at all of Carrot Top?

01:16:12.79
Mike
Um.

01:16:14.36
Bill
Apparently there is. and That's good. That's good. i It doesn't matter what the opinion is.

01:16:16.82
Mike
Why?

01:16:17.20
Bill
and now i'm Now I'm curious.

01:16:17.91
Mike
Yeah, he's a prop comic.

01:16:20.18
Bill
Correct.

01:16:20.25
Mike
Yeah, he's he's like one step below rodeo clown.

01:16:20.54
Bill
Right.

01:16:24.61
Mike
um Yeah.

01:16:24.80
Bill
Right.

01:16:26.05
Mike
ah that Yeah, whatever. I don't think he's funny. I think he's um think he's annoying. I think, you know, whatever, man. The fucking the whole thing is just it's it's it's wrong.

01:16:38.84
Mike
i Why anyone would be attracted to, entertained by, um having have a positive opinion of that freak i have no idea but apparently somebody does because he you know he's made a career out of it i just don't fucking get it

01:16:55.88
Bill
Right. Right. And you know what? here Here's the thing. And I remember who the who the individual was that I was talking about that, again, I listened to for however long. Oh, Kevin Hart. Kevin Hart was so the the last one that I brought up like this.

01:17:05.67
Mike
hmm yeah yeah yeah oh gallagher was all right

01:17:07.74
Bill
And and again, I've never had any. um I've never been um a Gallagher fan. I've never been a Carrot Top fan. Really? Okay. So I just. And again, you know, I mean. but It is what it is.

01:17:19.32
Bill
It's just, it's, you know, gimmicks and props and whatever the case is.

01:17:19.64
Mike
Sure. Yeah. yeah

01:17:21.84
Bill
It was never like my thing where I'm like, this is so fucking great. You know, I was never that person.

01:17:25.37
Mike
Right.

01:17:26.68
Bill
It sounds like, obviously you're saying the same thing with care top 100% agree.

01:17:29.83
Mike
Mm

01:17:30.24
Bill
Okay. But you know, for, for the two and a half hours or whatever it was that he was on Rogan, um, it was,

01:17:34.33
Mike
hmm.

01:17:35.59
Bill
ridiculously interesting conversation he's he wasn't like a yeah the entire time actually i almost the complete opposite they Rogan kept asking him questions about this so we tell these stories every once in a while but okay so guess what he's speaking of all that everything that you just said um two things he's got a residency at the Luxor in Vegas okay how long do you don have any any idea

01:17:37.21
Mike
All right. Right.

01:17:45.66
Mike
hmm.

01:17:50.90
Mike
Yes.

01:17:54.74
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's got to be 20 years, 25 years, something crazy like that.

01:18:00.28
Bill
Right there, ding. Right, 20.

01:18:02.14
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:02.39
Bill
Fucking 20. And then, guess how much he's worth?

01:18:05.62
Mike
Oh, it probably 40 million.

01:18:09.44
Bill
Ooh, almost double it, 70 75.

01:18:12.09
Mike
wow okay

01:18:13.62
Bill
Again, for everything that you just said, which I agree with wholeheartedly, for fucking playing with props, he's worth $75 million. dollars but So the Kenny Rogers thing fucking made me laugh, but then he said he's this it dumb this other, well, he had two, um I'll call him run-ins with Prince, okay?

01:18:20.50
Mike
All right. Mm hmm.

01:18:31.52
Bill
And you know again, this came up and he's telling the story.

01:18:31.64
Mike
Now.

01:18:34.20
Bill
He goes, the first story, he goes i was up he goes, I was on the Tonight Show. He goes, apparently Johnny Carson would never have him on because ah the the exact thing that you just said, he was a prop comic and

01:18:42.87
Mike
Yeah, cuz he sucked.

01:18:44.44
Bill
Yeah, it is said that, you know, basically was a variety show type of, yeah, variety show thing, and Johnny wouldn't have Monso, but Jay ja apparently loved him, but he was on

01:18:47.15
Mike
Wasn't funny, right? Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. god's There you go. he Birds of a feather.

01:18:53.85
Bill
Yeah. Right. Right. So, you know, apparently he who's on there a number of times. But so they're on they're on the Tonight Show with obviously with Jay and he knew Prince was going to be on that night.

01:19:04.32
Bill
So he goes up to the Jay and he's like, can you you know introduce me Because I've never met Prince before. and He's like, just, you know, go knock on his door. And he's like, can't you at least walk me over there? He's like, i don't want to just, you know, like walk in.

01:19:14.38
Bill
He goes, it you know, it's fucking Prince. You know, he goes, just want to it you know, just interrupt the guy.

01:19:16.42
Mike
Right.

01:19:19.48
Bill
So they walk up and he goes, he's just about to knock on the door and Prince opens the door to the dressing room and looks at Carrot Top. It just says, where is my fucking tea?

01:19:31.73
Bill
And Garrett Top's like, he goes, hey, what what do you mean? He goes, go get my fucking tea.

01:19:37.30
Mike
Nice.

01:19:37.75
Bill
So Garrett Top's like, oh, okay. So fucking runs around to find tea. Okay. So he gets gets he gets tea, comes back, and knocks on the door.

01:19:43.56
Mike
Of course he did, leisar

01:19:48.95
Bill
The assistant comes to the door, and he goes, like got I've got Prince's tea. And his assistant's like, he goes, Prince doesn't want any fucking tea. And he he goes, he goes, I can see Prince sit in the background.

01:19:56.40
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:19:57.62
Bill
He goes, he's just looking at me. And he goes, i goes i don't know what the fuck he was.

01:19:59.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:00.90
Bill
He goes, he was fucking nuts. But so second time he's in like Las Vegas or whatever. I think he was in Las Vegas walking down the hallway. And he said, there's this big black guy. And he goes, I'm not talking about big.

01:20:11.55
Bill
He goes, I'm talking about six, six, you know, taking them half the hallway. Huge fucking black dude. And this guy's just standing in the hall. And he goes to walk up. the guy's like, you're not going through. And he goes, I got to get back to my room. You know, this is Caratop.

01:20:23.67
Bill
And he goes, you're not getting through.

01:20:23.67
Mike
yeah

01:20:25.03
Bill
And he goes, I he need to get to my room. And he goes, you're not going past me. And so he goes up to the front desk, talks to the lady. He's like, I got to get back to my room. So apparently front desk lady comes in, comes up there, goes, sir, what are you doing?

01:20:36.87
Bill
Blah, blah, blah. So she's like give reading this this big dude, the riot act sort of thing.

01:20:40.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:41.85
Bill
And Carrot Top's just kind of curious. thinking there's got to be something going on down the hall, right?

01:20:45.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:45.85
Bill
So he just peeks around the guy, and Prince is just standing behind this black guy.

01:20:50.44
Mike
Aha. There.

01:20:50.81
Bill
just standing there. He's not doing anything, but this guy's so fucking big and Prince was so small.

01:20:52.84
Mike
ahha

01:20:55.09
Bill
You couldn't see him. He's just standing there. And then care tops like, Oh, Hey Prince. And he goes, Oh, Hey, care top. It was nice to meet you. He goes, can I go by to get to my room? And the black guys, big dudes looking at him.

01:21:05.83
Bill
Prince taps him on his shoulder. goes, yeah, he goes, let, let care top through. her So that's how he met Prince. He's just standing in a fucking hallway. He had some fucking black dude.

01:21:13.28
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:14.19
Bill
And I'm like, what the fuck?

01:21:14.48
Mike
Yeah. Because you can.

01:21:17.72
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Cause he, cause he can.

01:21:19.82
Mike
Could. Can't do it anymore.

01:21:20.26
Bill
So, but I don't know.

01:21:21.15
Mike
Nope. Hmm. could

01:21:22.18
Bill
is Yeah, exactly. I could don not, not, not can't. Yeah. You're going standing in, standing in hallways anymore.

01:21:25.80
Mike
can't do it anymore

01:21:28.30
Bill
So, um, All right, so the the last one was, um this is another one. Here's an opinion opinion piece. And for everyone, I just want to kind of bring you up to speed how ah my friend Mike over there is when it comes to music.

01:21:40.18
Bill
But I'll let you say it. Mike is usually a certain way with music. And if if I had to ask you, Mike, honestly, if you had to describe music, what is what is music?

01:21:44.64
Mike
yeah

01:21:49.24
Bill
How do you describe any piece of music ever?

01:21:52.42
Mike
uh it's either good or bad no absolutely not yeah it's good or bad yeah right and it doesn't matter to the genre it doesn't matter the style doesn't matter who's doing it it doesn't matter any none of it matters it's either good or it's bad

01:21:55.16
Bill
No in between, right? Just good or bad.

01:21:59.03
Bill
Okay. And what.

01:22:07.32
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, it's, it and this is, this is the guy that, you know, likes everyone from, you know, Alice Cooper to the band America, which we just found out on here folks a couple of months ago that Mike, Mike loves ah a horse with no name.

01:22:14.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. I fucking love America. Oh, yeah. Great fucking song.

01:22:23.86
Bill
i I don't disagree. i don't disagree at all.

01:22:25.56
Mike
he

01:22:27.42
Bill
But every time I hear that song now, I just start laughing. Any song by America, I just start fucking laughing because, and it's not because I don't like the music.

01:22:32.82
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:34.54
Bill
I fuck i like i like America. But the fact,

01:22:36.70
Mike
Their version of Muskrat Love is pretty fucking good. Captain and Tennille sucks ass.

01:22:42.26
Bill
right.

01:22:43.77
Mike
So it could even be the same fucking song.

01:22:46.14
Bill
Right. It's just how, yeah, I get it.

01:22:47.32
Mike
Yeah. Good and bad.

01:22:49.11
Bill
100%. I get it. It just cracks me up because it you surprise me every once in a while in the best fucking possible way. And that was that was one of the best ones when it came to music.

01:22:56.76
Mike
supposed supposed

01:22:58.65
Bill
but So when it comes to a particular band, the band Motley Crue, I know how you feel about Vince Neal.

01:23:03.00
Mike
Yes. He's

01:23:04.41
Bill
Do you want to reiterate how you feel about Vince Neal?

01:23:07.00
Mike
a fat piece of murdering shit.

01:23:10.46
Bill
I don't know what you ever said. Yeah, you probably did. I probably all those words were a fat piece of murder.

01:23:13.30
Mike
Yeah. wow Yeah.

01:23:15.49
Bill
Yeah. Okay. Fat piece of murder and shit. Okay.

01:23:17.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:17.61
Bill
um I brought up Nikki six, not too long ago. You, your opinion on that.

01:23:20.64
Mike
Nah. Well, he's completely untalented, can't play a fucking instrument, and gets but gets by on image alone.

01:23:30.17
Bill
Okay. And then there's only two left, but I, I Mick Mars looks like Michael Jackson when he's, when he was after he died in my opinion, but.

01:23:33.02
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:38.17
Mike
Yes, but a great fucking guitar player in that band wouldn't be without him.

01:23:42.39
Bill
Okay, but they did, then' they didn't they? Is he out of the band now? Or no, I guess.

01:23:44.98
Mike
Oh, yeah, John Fives playing with him now.

01:23:46.86
Bill
that's what i That's what I thought.

01:23:47.54
Mike
Yeah, has been for a few years, couple years anyway.

01:23:47.78
Bill
but

01:23:50.10
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:50.36
Bill
yeah Mick Mars always looked like he was half fucking dead to me. But i again,

01:23:52.94
Mike
Well, yeah, that's great fucking look, man.

01:23:55.67
Bill
yeah but

01:23:56.13
Mike
That's fucking rock and roll.

01:23:57.46
Bill
I agree with you. just david He always got to creep me out. but So the the last member the last member the last member of the band, any opinion on Tommy Lee?

01:24:00.12
Mike
Yeah, cool.

01:24:06.58
Mike
Tommy, he's a twitchy little motherfucker, but he's a pretty decent drummer.

01:24:10.49
Bill
Okay. And that's that's about, ah ladies and gentlemen, that's about as good as you're going to get where, you know, it mike if your Mike doesn't overly, like, really, really like somebody, was that twitchy motherfucker? But...

01:24:20.57
Mike
Yeah, but a decent drummer. Yeah.

01:24:22.36
Bill
Okay. Okay, cool.

01:24:23.00
Mike
and ah And the band as a whole put out one and a half good albums. The rest was crap.

01:24:28.73
Bill
Okay. So, what' okay, now I got to stop here. what was the What were the one and a half albums?

01:24:33.66
Mike
um Well, Too Fast for Love was a great fucking album.

01:24:35.89
Bill
Mm-hmm.

01:24:35.90
Mike
and And, you know, Shot at the Devil was half of a good album. You know, it was it was all right. There was some good stuff on there.

01:24:41.22
Bill
Okay.

01:24:42.46
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:42.55
Bill
Okay.

01:24:42.70
Mike
And then the rest was garbage.

01:24:44.41
Bill
Okay. Yeah. As I got into the eighties and stuff like that, I was guessing that, yeah, the more the glam shit you probably weren't into with all that stuff.

01:24:50.90
Mike
Too Fast for Love is a fucking great album.

01:24:51.06
Bill
Right.

01:24:54.30
Bill
Right. Okay. Gotcha. All right. So the, and again, I don't remember when this was, it was probably a while back that same thing. I listened to Tommy Lee that Rogan had him on in, you know, two things.

01:25:04.87
Bill
I wanted to get your thoughts on it and getting the, on the rest of the band. I i knew that I thought that'd be a great, just to, just to remind everyone your, your hatred towards at least two of them.

01:25:10.12
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. No, Mick Morris was great.

01:25:13.07
Bill
And I, I didn't, I didn't know about Mick Mars. We've never talked about him before. So I'm glad, I'm glad I know.

01:25:16.95
Mike
no mcmarel's great

01:25:18.36
Bill
Perfect. I'm glad at least we get, we got that out of the way too. Not in the bad way and not out of the way, but

01:25:21.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:23.64
Bill
So when, exactly.

01:25:23.77
Mike
Sure. Clarified.

01:25:26.28
Bill
So when, when Joe started talking to him and it almost sounded like um either he was eating or like smacking his lips all the time. It, is that what it is?

01:25:33.05
Mike
Smacking his lips all the time. Twitchy motherfucker. Yep.

01:25:36.60
Bill
Oh yeah, it could be, but it was, it got to, it was that it wasn't even like just distracting. It was all, it was just kind of gross to begin with.

01:25:43.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:43.82
Bill
I'm just like, I am really in the first like 15 minutes. I wasn't sure if I was going to listen or could be able to listen to it but it kind of either eased off or I got used to it, whatever the case was.

01:25:51.51
Mike
Right.

01:25:52.68
Bill
But, That's where when I brought up last week when I said, you know do you know who Snake is from The Simpsons? Of course you did. He sounds like him every once in while.

01:25:58.84
Mike
Yes.

01:26:00.53
Bill
He's just like, oh, yeah?

01:26:01.19
Mike
huh.

01:26:01.61
Bill
Yeah.

01:26:02.07
Mike
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.

01:26:03.09
Bill
And I'm like, wait, the dude, that he's just fucking Snake.

01:26:04.15
Mike
Yeah. Good call.

01:26:07.26
Bill
It just made me fucking laugh. but um So a couple of things that kind of blew my mind, a which which I didn't really um remember. So 1980 is when they broke out. That's obviously when when when did Too Fast for Love come out?

01:26:19.45
Mike
Yeah, 81.

01:26:19.53
Bill
Was that was that their first one?

01:26:20.37
Mike
Yeah, that's the first one.

01:26:22.87
Bill
Okay, that's what I thought. And I mean, he was only whatever it was, he was 18 years old, blah, blah, blah.

01:26:26.65
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:28.77
Bill
what I thought was funny, like two things, and I'm sure this goes for a lot of people, but he said he gets emails every once in a while from these young people, like these days, in current times, and they're actually asking him if that's how things were, how the rock and roll lifestyle was at that time frame.

01:26:37.87
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:26:44.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:45.84
Bill
And he's like, yeah, he goes, everything I've said and everything we've talked about, yeah, he goes exactly like that. And he's like, some of these, some of these people like, fuck man, we're never going to experience that.

01:26:55.77
Mike
Nope.

01:26:55.87
Bill
And I mean, you, you lived, you lived all that, all that shit at that timeframe.

01:26:56.05
Mike
You're not. h

01:26:59.23
Bill
So, which I just thought that was, that was kind of funny, but that was it. It was just the, I didn't know your opinion of him. um And just the fact that he sounded like snake surprisingly enough, again, kind of in interesting conversation, but he's not, he's not a complete dumb ass to listen to.

01:27:08.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:14.51
Mike
Hmm.

01:27:14.81
Bill
he's, um ah is

01:27:16.60
Mike
But he's a dumbass. He's just not a complete one. Mm-hmm.

01:27:20.15
Bill
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's he wasn't – I was able to listen to the whole thing and not be completely annoyed by it. they had but But again, you know, I mean, we've we've had guests on that are hard to pull questions and conversations out of.

01:27:26.68
Mike
Right.

01:27:33.57
Bill
They've never been bad guests, but some people that aren't really forthcoming with a lot of things. But kind of like once you get them talking, that sort of thing.

01:27:37.23
Mike
Sure.

01:27:39.09
Bill
So Joe was able to bring out some of these stories, you know, that were – he helped pull pull some of this stuff out to make him not seem like such a dumbass, I guess is probably the –

01:27:41.91
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:27:44.86
Mike
Right. Yes, that's probably correct.

01:27:49.50
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, okay. So now, now again, now we know about the, we, we've now gone through the entire band Motley Crue.

01:27:54.86
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.

01:27:56.31
Bill
So, um, All right. So one more on, um, actually one more is from sober friends that I have that I wanted to bring up. So they were talking about, um, avoidance. Okay.

01:28:09.37
Bill
And specifically, life getting kind of lifey at times. I don't know if they use that term or if I just put it on there that way, but So avoiding taking action on something because they were either overwhelmed or just, um you know, I couldn't process things properly.

01:28:15.51
Mike
well

01:28:20.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:23.30
Mike
Right.

01:28:23.48
Bill
And, you know, I mean, obviously I know that both of us have have dealt with things like that before, but, you know, does, do you, well, i I'm guessing that it happened more in early sobriety, but I know it could still happen now.

01:28:27.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:33.98
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:35.03
Bill
But when something, I'm just going to say when something like that either did happen in the beginning or does happen now, how do you get yourself jumpstarted to get out of that?

01:28:35.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:40.24
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:28:45.94
Mike
um I mean, for me, focus on the basics, you know, whatever those are, um you know. OK, yeah.

01:28:56.18
Mike
ah Real January 6 shit, you know, most important thing is my sobriety.

01:28:58.70
Bill
Right.

01:29:00.96
Mike
The most, you know, just. put your fucking head down and in focus on the simple basics. Um, because if you really, you know, whatever's going on is, is all that outside shit, man, you know, and, and that's what you're focusing on and yeah, it'll make you fucking nuts, man.

01:29:19.75
Mike
Cause you have no power and you have no control and, um and, And when you focus on those things, you spiral, you know, because you have no power and you have no control and you forget that you have no power and have no control.

01:29:34.08
Mike
um You think that maybe you do, um which gets real fucking dangerous, man. So you got to just hunker down, um you know, again, earlier this year, the end of last year.

01:29:47.82
Mike
ah Now, um yeah, you know, shit got real squirrely for me um personally.

01:29:48.11
Bill
Right.

01:29:53.42
Mike
And I, you know, I was fucking losing my shit, but I wasn't because I focused on the basics and, You know, there were days where, you know, it was get up, do my reading, brush my, make my bed, brush my teeth, you know, get in the truck and drive, come home, eat something, go to bed.

01:30:15.55
Mike
You know, we'll do my 10th step and and, you know, be grateful for something. Find, find something to be grateful for.

01:30:23.26
Bill
Right. No, I get it.

01:30:23.83
Mike
And I did because I was fucking looking for it.

01:30:24.10
Bill
i get it.

01:30:26.67
Mike
Wasn't easy to find, but I found something and it was enough. And I went to bed. And did it again the next day and did it again the next day. And and before you knew it, I was, you know, was doing some other stuff besides that.

01:30:41.66
Mike
um You know, but that's, that's, you know, the shit that I do every day. I just had to focus on that a little harder because all the other outside shit was going on and I couldn't focus on that. Yeah.

01:30:55.51
Mike
not in stay sober and sane and, and in you know, continue to not be a menace to society. um and if I would have focused on the outside shit that I couldn't fucking control, i would have started to become a menace to society.

01:31:03.20
Bill
Right.

01:31:10.46
Mike
And I would have, you know, eventually fucking... done something about it and it wouldn't have been good because I was wasn't focused on the basics.

01:31:17.46
Bill
Right.

01:31:19.54
Mike
So, yeah, you know, I mean, it's real, again, simple, right? Basics. um That's what you got to fucking do. Don't worry about the other shit. Have some faith that it's going to be okay eventually, even if you can't fucking see it because it doesn't matter what you can see and can't see.

01:31:34.54
Mike
What matters is what you do.

01:31:34.97
Bill
Right.

01:31:37.43
Bill
Yeah, little bit, ah as you always say, you know a little bit of just ah a glimmer of faith and a glimmer of hope.

01:31:41.05
Mike
Nope.

01:31:41.51
Bill
And, you know, I mean, some of that open mindedness in there.

01:31:42.03
Mike
Nope.

01:31:44.85
Bill
But yeah, it just it is. It's ah it it it can be crippling if and I like how you said that. and I wasn't thinking about those exact words, but that's ah that's a great way to put it. you know, just get back to the fucking basics, you know, whatever, whatever it is, you know, it's, you, maybe got to set it aside over here for a second.

01:31:54.18
Mike
Hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:32:01.37
Bill
And um like you said, just get up, do your readings, drive, come home, eat and, you know, find something grateful.

01:32:01.85
Mike
Yep.

01:32:06.16
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:32:08.33
Bill
God, I, I, that's, that is so fucking perfect right there.

01:32:09.78
Mike
Mm.

01:32:12.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:12.49
Bill
That's the reason, that's the reason I laughed, you know, because, um, I mean, I'm, I'm honest. It's, it's, I sometimes forget to be grateful in a general sense when things are going well, I forget to get, be grateful, you know,

01:32:19.60
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. after Especially.

01:32:23.90
Bill
Yeah. you know it's like It's like, oh, hey, look at me.

01:32:24.54
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:32:27.38
Bill
I got the world by the fucking balls.

01:32:27.70
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:32:30.39
Bill
Watch out. you know But ah yeah, forcing yourself to find so find something grateful. you know it's ah it's ah It's a tough thing, but Yeah, it just, and I'm glad you brought that brought that up again too, just in led the back to the basics thing and just in general, because I was thinking the same thing.

01:32:36.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:46.65
Bill
It's just the the avoidance part. That's what they were talking about. And you know I think Matt was talking about that.

01:32:50.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:52.09
Bill
He sometimes feels almost you know crippled by something. if If he can't figure it out, then you know you're just you're just like, well, I'm i'm stuck.

01:32:55.86
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:32:59.77
Bill
i don't I can't do anything because you know of whatever this thing is, this one thing.

01:33:00.90
Mike
Mm.

01:33:04.09
Mike
Well, that's that's that's the disease talking to us and telling, yeah, I can't do it.

01:33:05.56
Bill
Yeah, right.

01:33:08.33
Mike
you No, you can do something. Maybe not anything to do with what is bothering you, but you can do something. Yeah, you absolutely can do something, and it comes down to the choice.

01:33:15.51
Bill
Right.

01:33:20.18
Mike
What are you going to choose to do? You can do something.

01:33:22.95
Bill
Right. Right.

01:33:24.25
Mike
So choose, again, focus on the fucking basics, man. Choose to do that. Choose to do those simple little things that have been working so far. Why the fuck wouldn't they work today? and In the middle of a tornado, they'll they're still going to work.

01:33:41.34
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:33:42.01
Bill
agreed All right. Well, so what do you think there, sir? I didn't – I cleared my throat a lot you know throughout this process.

01:33:46.48
Mike
Mm. Yeah.

01:33:48.57
Bill
I think I only did it a couple of times on here, um you know but was able to pause. And I got through this. i think my voice feels like it's – do I sound better? I didn't think so, but I was just trying to trying to be positive.

01:33:57.11
Mike
No.

01:34:01.42
Bill
But one way or the other, I think we've done something tonight, some work.

01:34:03.64
Mike
Yes, we have.

01:34:05.98
Bill
So –

01:34:07.25
Mike
We've done something. exactly.

01:34:08.76
Bill
we we've done What have you done today? I've done something. All right.

01:34:13.11
Mike
Exactly.

01:34:14.46
Bill
So now it's time for you to do something all on your own. Okay.

01:34:16.73
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober and Amateur. always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:34:32.34
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:34:45.78
Mike
Now it is time, kids. It is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:34:59.00
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

01:35:05.82
Bill
Yes. And you know what? The only thing it is, this will take, I promise, two minutes. um I forgot to bring up ah the the DUI arrested Milwaukee. Tony Romo, if anyone hasn't heard that. um Tony Romo, CBS, the announcer, ex-quarterback for the Cowboys, blah, blah, blah.

01:35:16.81
Mike
No, I haven't heard.

01:35:22.30
Bill
Oh, you didn't? Okay, so he was at the the short story. He was at a charity golf outing last weekend, um north side of Milwaukee, whatever it was. And I saw the buildup to it. I just saw a thing on Facebook.

01:35:32.44
Bill
and you know cause he's Well, I don't know if anyone knows. he was um ah He was born and raised in Burlington, Wisconsin, which is south of Milwaukee. um Still has family there and in whatever.

01:35:40.44
Mike
okay

01:35:42.32
Bill
so i mean, he's a Milwaukee guy and comes back every once in a while. Does things where the charitable things around the area every once in a while. He's been a good community steward, I guess, is the best way to do it.

01:35:52.25
Mike
here

01:35:52.66
Bill
he's not ah He's not a stranger to the the city of Milwaukee and surrounding areas. So he's back there for this golf outing and got pulled over. And I know exactly where he got pulled over. They were explaining it's I-43 going through downtown and on his way to his grandma and grandpa's house, you know.

01:36:08.09
Bill
And got pulled over because apparently he tried to illegally pass in the right, whatever it was, right-hand side, blah, blah, blah.

01:36:09.21
Mike
hey

01:36:13.50
Mike
yeah So we had to get a little lit up to go visit grandma and grandpa. Okay.

01:36:17.33
Bill
Well, he was at the golf outing.

01:36:18.81
Mike
Okay.

01:36:19.61
Bill
So he was the clearly drinking drinking at the golf outing all day.

01:36:23.34
Mike
Gotcha.

01:36:24.28
Bill
So pulled over. they ended up having They actually took him to the police station because they didn't want to do the field sobriety tests on the on the bridge. He's on a bridge in the Marquette Interchange, which is downtown.

01:36:34.44
Bill
you and i what You and I went through there when we went.

01:36:34.72
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.

01:36:36.84
Bill
Yeah, I know you know roughly where it is. But so um um it it was so So here's here's the the only bad part. I mean, when they finally, the body cam stuff came out like yesterday or the day before, so I just watched part of it.

01:36:49.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:36:51.29
Bill
So the cop comes up, and it's fucking noisy, and it's windy, and the thing's open, and she's yelling, and they're doing all the subtitles on what she's saying. He's trying to yell back. and you know I mean, I know what the end result is, but you know as part of me in my mind, I'm like, don't talk to her.

01:37:03.73
Bill
Don't breathe on her, Tony.

01:37:04.86
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:37:05.17
Bill
You're fucking drunk, man.

01:37:05.30
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:37:06.25
Bill
Don't you know better? Get your head back in that condom. Don't breathe on her, Tony. You know, it's just in my head, the alcoholic brain is like, don't breathe on her.

01:37:11.10
Mike
aha

01:37:14.20
Mike
sure

01:37:15.02
Bill
You know, and finally, yeah he's like, i'm going to call my lawyer. And she's like, you need to step out the car. And he's like, I can't call my lawyer. You need to step out of the car. So she calls for backup.

01:37:22.04
Mike
okay

01:37:22.91
Bill
And he's like, oh, yeah, subject will not step out of the car. Now they see, they're like, any available officers, respond to whatever. He's like, oh no, no, no. He goes, I'm getting out of my car. I'm getting out of car. So he gets out of his car, then he props his phone up on the back bumper. He's like, i gotta to put my phone right here. And he sets it down like this dumbass is to record him. You know what these cops are trying to do.

01:37:40.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:37:41.37
Bill
But they ended up taking it to the police station. he He failed whatever, got arrested, blah, blah, blah.

01:37:44.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:37:44.85
Bill
So the the headline just today was ah CBS has put him on leave you know until this shit gets worked out.

01:37:49.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:37:50.25
Bill
but So he refused a breathalyzer. That's number one. That's an immediate lot life.

01:37:54.14
Mike
Yeah. It is.

01:37:56.76
Bill
It is. um you know So he's got that. He's got like four different charges that just came up.

01:38:01.78
Mike
Yeah.

01:38:01.87
Bill
But here's the funny part. Before he's going to do these field sobriety things, she's like, ah any any head injur injuries, anything like that, any recent any recent falls, And this was so funny because you could tell he's he's speaking coherently, but you can also tell he's positive.

01:38:08.19
Mike
Hey.

01:38:14.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:38:16.05
Bill
can tell he's not all there. you know

01:38:17.29
Mike
Yeah, yeah, he's got a buzz on. Sure.

01:38:18.70
Bill
He's just, yeah, he's ah he's he's being a good drunk.

01:38:18.73
Mike
Yeah.

01:38:20.66
Bill
I don't even know what his blood alcohol level was. I don't think it was even that high.

01:38:23.93
Mike
Right, yeah, probably not.

01:38:23.94
Bill
um But um you know he just talking about head injuries and he's thinking for a minute. shes he's like He's like, recently knowing his over my career, he goes, yeah, I had it i a lot of them.

01:38:29.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:38:35.60
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:38:35.93
Bill
And I'm just fucking laughing. I'm like, that's fucking hilarious. But here's here's the thing.

01:38:39.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:38:40.61
Bill
and Here's all I wanted to say is to to the Tony Romo's and the Tiger Woods and the Britney Spears and any these other fucking celebrities that are worth fucking millions and millions and millions of dollars.

01:38:45.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:38:50.47
Bill
And you're you're carted around all the goddamn time anyhow.

01:38:50.84
Mike
Yeah.

01:38:53.68
Mike
Uh huh.

01:38:54.07
Bill
What the fuck? You know, I have no sympathy for any of these fuckers that get pulled over.

01:38:55.86
Mike
Yep.

01:38:58.92
Bill
None whatsoever.

01:38:59.13
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:39:00.40
Bill
It's not even like this guy, to like, oh, Jesus Christ, this guy's been struggling for years and it's his second DUI.

01:39:04.40
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:39:04.96
Bill
You know, he just can't, he can't get sober.

01:39:05.14
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

01:39:07.36
Bill
That's not it. They're too fucking, they're they're too goddamn stupid.

01:39:08.25
Mike
No.

01:39:09.96
Bill
You know, I mean, he's worth, oh yeah, he's worth like 80 fucking million dollars.

01:39:10.53
Mike
I'm too arrogant.

01:39:13.82
Bill
And you know, the...

01:39:13.91
Mike
Yeah, call fucking an Uber.

01:39:15.80
Bill
Well, I mean, just you could you could pay somebody. Call a fucking limo.

01:39:18.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:39:19.48
Bill
Get some guy to fucking play with his cock in the car while you're while you're golfing and then drive hey and you know drive you back to

01:39:19.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:39:23.58
Mike
Hey.

01:39:26.78
Mike
hi Get some guy to play with your cock while he's driving you home.

01:39:31.06
Bill
Okay. What?

01:39:32.85
Mike
You the money for it? Do it.

01:39:34.26
Bill
Exactly. Whatever fucking works. Yeah, exactly. So I just, ah that was my only thing. I'm like, you stupid motherfucker. You what mean?

01:39:40.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:39:40.58
Bill
Whatever happens to you, if you blow up your fucking career over this, fucking good for you. You know and I'm not?

01:39:44.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:39:45.38
Bill
I am not. advocating drunk driving. I've been open on here. I got a DUI.

01:39:49.52
Mike
Sure.

01:39:49.95
Bill
I can even say that, Ooh, back in our day, we didn't have a choice.

01:39:50.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:39:52.63
Bill
Of course I had a choice. I didn't have to do what I did and all that stuff.

01:39:53.94
Mike
Yeah, of course.

01:39:55.83
Bill
We all knew what we were fucking doing, you know?

01:39:56.13
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:39:57.55
Bill
So not advocating any of it, but especially these days with the, again, the ride sharing, but on top of that, you know, if you had that kind of money, it's not like they're not, they're used to it.

01:40:05.65
Mike
Yeah.

01:40:06.63
Bill
They get, these people get carted around fucking everywhere.

01:40:07.63
Mike
Right.

01:40:09.34
Bill
You know?

01:40:09.37
Mike
Yep.

01:40:10.42
Bill
So anyhow.

01:40:10.49
Mike
Yeah.

01:40:11.18
Bill
But yeah.

01:40:11.33
Mike
Jared gets an ego. We know that.

01:40:13.11
Bill
Yeah.

01:40:13.34
Mike
We know it. I can handle it.

01:40:15.00
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:40:15.54
Mike
I got this.

01:40:15.64
Bill
But it was... It was just... I don't know. Anyone, if you get a chance to watch some of the some of the body cam stuff, it's just... it's it's It's sad. You know, only to this to the extent that, you know, this this dude, got he didn't have to be in this fucking position.

01:40:28.83
Bill
he's too goddamn arrogant, your point.

01:40:29.30
Mike
Right. is

01:40:31.42
Bill
And he's sitting there emptying to goddamn sobriety test in the middle of a police station.

01:40:31.51
Mike
Yep.

01:40:35.26
Bill
So anyhow.

01:40:35.83
Mike
hu

01:40:36.73
Bill
Apparently missed dinner that night.

01:40:37.90
Mike
Choices and consequences.

01:40:37.99
Bill
think... yeah But apparently missed dinner at Grandma and Grandpa's that night.

01:40:42.04
Mike
oh poor Tony.

01:40:44.98
Bill
Exactly. All right. So, ladies and gentlemen, hopefully, hopefully I will not have this voice that I have this cold. Next week, I'm guessing I'll be better, but one way or the other. Mike, I love you, brother.

01:40:55.32
Mike
Yes. Love you too.

01:40:58.26
Bill
And I'm guessing, guessing we'll talk soon.

01:40:59.54
Mike
ye We shall.

01:41:01.69
Bill
yeah Bye.

01:41:03.51
Mike
by

SoberNotMature - Episode 232 (Throat Bruising And Uber Handies)

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