SoberNotMature - Episode 236 (Underdeveloped Brains And Other Modern Problems)

00:00:01.74
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And by the time everyone listens to this, the entire podcast is going to be in the Austin, Texas area.

00:00:14.54
Bill
But tonight, which is a fucking Tuesday, by the way.

00:00:15.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:18.39
Bill
Yeah. Which is cool. I mean, it was kind of funny because, I mean, you know, obviously we had talked about it. But, um I mean, the turnaround was so quick. And I'm like, God, am I going to be able to fill up?

00:00:25.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:00:26.71
Bill
I had a few things that, you know, popped up on the sheet and stuff like that, a couple of travel things.

00:00:29.62
Mike
Uh huh.

00:00:30.08
Bill
But I'm like, we always have plenty to talk about.

00:00:32.62
Mike
Right

00:00:32.57
Bill
but Number one quickest turnaround we've ever had. But yeah, we've never recorded on a Tuesday before. But so you are not working tomorrow. Am I correct, Mike?

00:00:41.39
Mike
Correct. I am fucking done for six whole days.

00:00:44.07
Bill
Because you're you're driving out to...

00:00:48.21
Mike
Kathy's tomorrow, yep.

00:00:49.45
Bill
Yeah.

00:00:49.95
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:00:49.100
Bill
Indiana.

00:00:51.01
Mike
Exactly. Yeah. Going to get there, you know, early evening ish, whatever. I mean, I told her five ish, but you know, might be a little later than that. I don't know. I got some shit to do tomorrow before I leave, but yep.

00:01:03.55
Mike
Yep. Anyway, but it doesn't matter because our plane doesn't leave until Thursday morning anyway. So whenever I fucking get there, I get there.

00:01:09.71
Bill
Right. Yeah, and i I figured too, I mean, obviously we're doing this tonight.

00:01:10.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:12.75
Bill
I mean, i'll I'll put it together probably tomorrow night and then don't have anything to fuck with. Well, you know, obviously, yeah because then, i I mean, I'm working tomorrow, but then off on.

00:01:20.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:21.45
Bill
Thursday, Friday. So it'll just be nice. I mean, I haven't, the the last time I had four days in a row like that, I think was probably probably last summer when we were out at Chippewa Lake. So it's been, it's been a minute and, you know, having that and really having, i but we got some, we got some shit we're going to do.

00:01:29.97
Mike
Right Yeah.

00:01:34.84
Bill
I mean, don't, don't get me wrong, but.

00:01:35.45
Mike
Right.

00:01:36.87
Bill
um You know, basically not really not having a schedule and not having to run around and do anything.

00:01:40.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:42.11
Bill
So, you know, it's just kind of nice. but

00:01:43.59
Mike
Exactly, yeah, you know, other than... The award ceremony.

00:01:47.73
Bill
Yeah, yeah and then yeah were and Mike and I were just talking about that before we started. a Thursday night, there's this meetup. It's some taco place in Austin, which we're going to go to Friday. We're going to just kind of kick around on our own, probably maybe go have some ribs or do whatever, have some dinner and to hang out, just the three of us, me, Mike, and our sister Kathy, of course.

00:02:01.22
Mike
Right?

00:02:05.22
Bill
And then um our friend Erica that was on a a handful of episodes or a handful of months ago is, I think, going to meet up with us on Thursday.

00:02:05.22
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:02:11.11
Mike
Great.

00:02:13.10
Bill
So we'll hopefully get a chance to meet her on Thursday. And then, yes, Saturday, Saturday night's the the big awards ceremony.

00:02:15.86
Mike
Cool.

00:02:18.87
Bill
And then, you know, all this all this anticipation since.

00:02:21.58
Mike
Hee hee hee.

00:02:22.41
Bill
I mean, it's it was I'm still trying to remember. So I was in – I know for a fact I was in Wisconsin when I started promoting these things for –

00:02:25.28
Mike
Mmm.

00:02:29.52
Mike
Right?

00:02:31.11
Bill
My grandson, when my grandson was born, and that was end of February. So I think we've known about this maybe since the beginning of February.

00:02:34.65
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:02:37.04
Bill
Does that sound right?

00:02:37.93
Mike
Yeah, sounds about right.

00:02:38.52
Bill
End of January. You know, I mean.

00:02:39.50
Mike
Yeah. yeah

00:02:41.14
Bill
You know, so, I mean, now it's the fucking end of August already. So, I mean, it's...

00:02:43.73
Mike
he

00:02:44.28
Bill
it's It's like, obviously, even when we booked this goddamn Airbnb, which was, you know, back in May, it's like, Jesus Christ, it's still three fucking months away, you know?

00:02:50.99
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:02:53.27
Mike
Right. Well, not anymore. Now it's three fucking days away. Four days away.

00:02:56.85
Bill
I know, yeah.

00:02:57.32
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:02:57.52
Bill
It's actually kind of cool. so

00:02:59.44
Mike
Yep.

00:03:00.13
Bill
And I figured out everything with the airport. There's a cell phone lot, and you guys can go to the either the upper or lower baggage.

00:03:06.52
Mike
Don't tell me what to do.

00:03:07.93
Bill
I said you guys can.

00:03:10.00
Mike
Oh, okay.

00:03:10.27
Bill
can't you have the the ability to

00:03:11.81
Mike
Well, yeah, I could do a lot of things.

00:03:13.92
Bill
But, you know, it's weird because so, you know, obviously different airports, they tell you exactly where it's like, like Milwaukee.

00:03:18.98
Mike
Mhm.

00:03:19.94
Bill
Well, you you know, I picked you up in Milwaukee.

00:03:21.63
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:03:22.18
Bill
um It's just easy one. one says for rivals once his departures even

00:03:24.71
Mike
Right. Yeah. Same with Cleveland.

00:03:26.64
Bill
Yeah, I mean, even even O 'Hare, as fucking massive as that place is, big fucking signs.

00:03:29.01
Mike
Right.

00:03:30.87
Bill
I mean, different things, but it's like to go here and here, it's pretty easy.

00:03:32.13
Mike
uh-huh Yes.

00:03:33.90
Bill
But i couldn't I couldn't figure out where to fucking go.

00:03:34.42
Mike
Right. hu

00:03:36.55
Bill
Finally, I'm like, Southwest Airlines, where do I go? And there's two other places. It's a baggage claim. You guys will figure it out. It's either upper or lower. All you got to do is tell me where you're at. I'll be in a cell phone lot that will be in good shape.

00:03:45.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:46.31
Bill
so

00:03:46.34
Mike
Right.

00:03:46.44
Bill
so but

00:03:47.19
Mike
Yeah, we'll we'll be in Texas.

00:03:48.77
Bill
Hmm. Yeah, exactly. And it's ah and I'll tell you, we'll talk about it more. It's hot as fuck here, but um I...

00:03:53.60
Mike
Mmm.

00:03:53.100
Bill
I don't mind it. it's It's actually not surprisingly not that bad, but I'll tell you about when I when i went hiking on on Sunday.

00:03:59.79
Mike
Alright.

00:04:00.38
Bill
so but um First of all, let's let's get this started with two things that we had talked about today when I got a text message from my friend Mike. so first First of all, you had a radio gig last last week.

00:04:07.86
Mike
Yeah. Hehehe.

00:04:12.02
Bill
ah you know get

00:04:12.52
Mike
I did.

00:04:13.27
Bill
Let's just go ahead and do a quick quick rundown of that even before the reading. I know that's out of character, but the reason for that is because you sent me a text message today that says, hey, we have a new listener.

00:04:16.58
Mike
Okay.

00:04:21.06
Mike
Hehehe.

00:04:22.82
Bill
So you can you can explain to our fine listeners exactly what that text message was all about.

00:04:22.79
Mike
Right. He he he he he he he he

00:04:26.97
Bill
so I think it'd be a good way to start off. And by the way, this is the start of season 10.

00:04:31.73
Mike
Mmm.

00:04:31.26
Bill
so you know

00:04:31.73
Mike
see we'll see we're mixing it up we're not doing the reading right right away and if you're a new listener see i remember occasionally some things um yes anyway so yes text message um yeah i got a message from uh bill peters today who is the host of the metal on metal radio show so that i guest dj'd on last friday and um yeah well we had you know we're

00:04:36.14
Bill
Yeah. Hehehehe.

00:04:42.37
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:58.30
Mike
shooting the shit. I mean, clearly while the music's playing, we're talking in the studio and all that stuff. and um and we were actually after the show we were talking and he was like uh you know he listens to podcasts and he was like well where can i find it at is it on and i said everywhere and he's all is it on this one and and it was someone i'd never heard of before and i don't remember what the fuck it was But...

00:05:15.68
Bill
Right.

00:05:22.58
Mike
um that was you know where he listens to his podcasts so i was like well i don't know search see if we're on there lo and behold there we fucking were so uh yeah so he was like yeah you know ah He actually listened on the way home from the radio show that night.

00:05:27.53
Bill
Right.

00:05:33.38
Bill
Right. Right.

00:05:42.27
Mike
And um I don't think he listened to the whole thing, though. and Apparently, he was listening some more today. And he just sent me a message and said, Boy, your co-host talks a lot.

00:05:56.10
Bill
Hehehehe. Yeah.

00:05:59.05
Mike
I, said, yes, he does.

00:06:02.22
Bill
Yeah, it was something about it. It was my trip. And and this was, I mean, there was a it was a, it believe me, though this is not lost on me.

00:06:04.90
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:06:08.34
Bill
I can feel it when a story's going along, you know.

00:06:11.26
Mike
Right.

00:06:12.33
Bill
But, I mean, there's certain times where it's like, okay, the... The entire situation involves this long fucking drawn out story.

00:06:18.85
Mike
Right.

00:06:19.05
Bill
And i'm I'm seriously not trying to draw it on, but you know, it just, it just happens that way. Like the, when I was telling the whole story about my, you know, like about my heart attack. And I remember that night, cause you're like, you're like, man, I'm fucking beat.

00:06:29.30
Bill
If we don't have to run the entire time, let's cut it. And I'm like, that's fine. Just, I said, when we get to a point, just cut it.

00:06:32.70
Mike
uh-huh

00:06:34.12
Bill
And I remember telling the story and being like, you know, Just you tell me when to cut it.

00:06:35.43
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:06:38.18
Bill
And then I looked at him like, oh, fuck, we ran the entire time anyhow.

00:06:40.48
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:06:41.00
Bill
And you and you were you were kind. You were like, no, this was a story that I wanted to hear, and I'm sure other people did too.

00:06:43.11
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:06:45.96
Bill
but

00:06:45.98
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:06:47.28
Bill
But, yeah, and I was just kind of like, well, that's why I was fucking around with Mike. I said, okay, well, tonight's the start of season 10, so let's flip it around.

00:06:50.99
Mike
he

00:06:52.76
Bill
I said, I'll i'll sit back and they do nothing, and Mike can do all the talking. He's like.

00:06:56.22
Mike
Right.

00:06:57.03
Bill
What did you say?

00:06:58.02
Mike
i i I said I don't have it in me.

00:06:59.98
Bill
Hmm. Exactly.

00:07:01.20
Mike
Yeah. Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

00:07:02.90
Bill
Exactly. So I'm like, well, I guess we got to keep, well, we don't have to, but.

00:07:03.31
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:06.56
Mike
Mmm.

00:07:07.63
Bill
You know, I guess just keep

00:07:07.64
Mike
We'll stick to the, here's my first air quotes of the episode.

00:07:10.79
Bill
hey

00:07:11.39
Mike
Format.

00:07:13.30
Bill
that' That would be the biggest air quote of the entire 236 episodes because that's what we're on right now.

00:07:16.14
Mike
Uh huh. There you go. Let me do them with my legs.

00:07:20.32
Bill
Right.

00:07:20.37
Mike
here Air quotes with my feet.

00:07:23.86
Bill
Yeah, and if you're if you're a new listener, we as you might might imagine, we don't have a fucking format.

00:07:26.05
Mike
he

00:07:28.70
Bill
And, you know, the the thing of it is with the reading, the only reason I wanted to do that, because I thought it was kind of funny and a great way to start things off.

00:07:28.65
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:07:33.16
Mike
Right.

00:07:33.79
Bill
And, um you know, Bill's a good dude.

00:07:34.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:07:35.97
Bill
and i um the The thing of it is is two things.

00:07:36.36
Mike
Yes, he is. Very.

00:07:38.99
Bill
if i If that were, if I weren't healthy or...

00:07:42.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:43.53
Bill
you know, by being sober and stuff like that. Something like that probably really would have fucking it bothered me years ago.

00:07:45.61
Mike
Right.

00:07:49.45
Bill
before before I got sober because I was i was always wondering what what people think about me, people-pleasing, all those sort of things.

00:07:53.55
Mike
author

00:07:55.43
Bill
And I can still be that way a little bit, you know, but but then I'm like, you know, the the only thing, if I ever get in the...

00:07:58.11
Mike
Sure.

00:08:01.97
Bill
This has nothing to do with Bill. in general, um nothing to do with him.

00:08:03.56
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:08:06.23
Bill
But if I ever get a comment like that, if somebody says something, I think to myself, I'm like, was I doing anything wrong? No. Was I doing anything intentional? No. Was I doing anything, well, intentional, yes, obviously, because we're doing this thing.

00:08:15.63
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:08:16.54
Bill
But was I doing anything with any, you know, like harm or malice or anything of those sorts?

00:08:20.38
Mike
Right.

00:08:21.03
Bill
And if I get through those things and I'm like, well, okay, just. I am who I am. i can't I can't fucking change. And I mean, I can, but I, I don't, I probably can't, I probably can't, you know, so, but no, it's a ah bill.

00:08:26.92
Mike
Yes. Hey.

00:08:33.32
Bill
First of all, I appreciate if you're listening to this again, we appreciate obviously you listening. And um I laughed my ass off when I, when I got that. when Mike sent me that, because I'm like, you know, I mean, what am I going to do?

00:08:41.47
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:08:42.82
Bill
You know, I mean, um no, I don't.

00:08:43.35
Mike
Right. Right. Right. And after he actually sent that to me and then, uh, You know, I said I was going to share it with you.

00:08:52.93
Bill
Right.

00:08:52.79
Mike
And then he wrote me right back. He's all, I like him, man, but. ah And I said, yeah, me too.

00:08:58.84
Bill
Right.

00:09:02.92
Mike
Same.

00:09:02.43
Bill
Yeah.

00:09:03.22
Mike
Right, you know, yes, I love him too, but yes, he can talk, absolutely. And that's okay, because, you know, it's a fucking podcast.

00:09:08.90
Bill
Yeah, he said... Right.

00:09:11.30
Mike
Somebody's got to do something.

00:09:13.05
Bill
Well, and that's the thing. I mean, I talk all, I've been, I've been talking my entire fucking life and, you know, and it just, I, people, I've known people, but I, there are people out there that literally.

00:09:16.79
Mike
Right.

00:09:23.24
Bill
Cousin Jody talks more than me.

00:09:24.80
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:09:24.93
Bill
You know, get Kathy and cousin Jody together.

00:09:25.53
Mike
Mmm.

00:09:27.52
Bill
It's like, Jesus Christ. my my dad My dad was fucking just...

00:09:31.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:32.76
Bill
um i mean you Again, you think you think I talk a lot. i mean add Add whatever to him. It's just crazy.

00:09:38.03
Mike
Right.

00:09:38.59
Bill
you know but um it it just It is what it is. so Again, I don't...

00:09:41.89
Mike
And actually, and I didn't share this with you earlier and actually told him I wasn't going to share it with you, but fuck it, I'm going to share it with you.

00:09:50.06
Bill
Okay.

00:09:50.44
Mike
yeah Actually, after that, he said, I actually enjoyed this long-winded story, especially about the Airbnb. And then I wrote back, I will not share that with him, but I am.

00:10:01.13
Mike
So there you go.

00:10:01.64
Bill
Yeah.

00:10:01.91
Mike
He actually enjoyed it, but yes.

00:10:04.42
Bill
Yeah, that's that's the thing. here here's Here's the other thing, ladies and gentlemen. A lot of people over time, they're kind of like that too. I didn't think I was going to like you, but I ended up doing it.

00:10:11.87
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:13.13
Bill
I've had that with women. I've had that with people I work with and all those sort of things.

00:10:14.63
Mike
Hmm? Kidding.

00:10:16.82
Bill
so When I first met you, you yeah yeah i mean well god i mean even even Mike and I, when we first we first met, we were not friends right away.

00:10:17.34
Mike
We wear them down.

00:10:23.35
Mike
Hmm.

00:10:25.11
Bill
you know and I don't know that either one of us, I thought you were going to kill me.

00:10:25.60
Mike
No.

00:10:28.30
Bill
and you know God only knows what you thought of me, and I don't really give a fuck.

00:10:28.80
Mike
Right.

00:10:31.62
Bill
you know But it is what it is.

00:10:31.44
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:32.70
Bill
I was just running around. trying to make friends so I didn't get fucking killed by by by you people, you know?

00:10:36.10
Mike
Right. Right. And you know what? That's actually a nice. unintentional segue because uh the reading kind of touches on that today

00:10:47.51
Bill
Oh. Okay, well, geez, I was just all kicked back and relaxed, and I've got to get back into work mode. Hang on. Hang on, everyone.

00:10:51.66
Mike
Wait a minute. All right.

00:10:52.31
Bill
Okay, we're good. We're good.

00:10:53.33
Mike
You ready?

00:10:54.83
Bill
I am.

00:10:55.16
Mike
You good? All right.

00:10:56.24
Bill
I'm good.

00:10:57.04
Mike
All right. Well, um so now with the reading portion of our program.

00:11:01.99
Bill
Right.

00:11:02.02
Mike
This is ah As Bill Sees It, as we've been doing lately. um And I was kind of flipping around and found this one. It's not hugely long, as most of them aren't.

00:11:15.98
Mike
But I liked it.

00:11:17.93
Bill
Right.

00:11:17.82
Mike
So um this is ah from a grapevine article from 1959. And here we go. Alike when the chips are down.

00:11:30.79
Mike
In the beginning... It was four whole years before AA brought a per- brought permanent sobriety to even one alcoholic woman. Woman.

00:11:41.21
Mike
I can talk. ah Let's do that again. We're going to take two. In the beginning, it was four whole years before AA brought permanent sobriety to even one alcoholic woman.

00:11:54.43
Mike
Like the high bottoms. The women said they were different. AA couldn't be for them. But as the communication was perfected,

00:12:04.35
Mike
mostly by the women themselves. The picture changed. This process of identification and transmission has gone on and on. the skid rower said he was different.

00:12:17.56
Mike
Even more loudly, the Socialite, or Park Avenue Stumblebum, said the same. So did the artists and the professional people. the rich and the poor.

00:12:29.31
Mike
the religious, the agnostic, the Indians and the Eskimos, the veterans and the prisoners. Yeah. But nowadays, all of these. Legions more.

00:12:40.45
Mike
sobriety soberly talk about how much very much alike all of us alcoholics are when we admit that the chips are finally down Again, this is from a grapevine article from October 1959.

00:12:56.94
Bill
Nice. So, um I mean, basically, the the whole thing is about that you know we all... to begin with, of course, think we're different, which that goes back to the, you know, I got a little.

00:13:03.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:05.93
Bill
add on in my head for the keating center thing but um so in general i mean what do you what do you think about that i mean as far as that article in 1959 though huh that's fuck it God, these...

00:13:07.85
Mike
Aha.

00:13:14.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:15.42
Bill
when we keep reading these things, I'm just like, it it takes a second for the year to like really kick in.

00:13:17.05
Mike
Right.

00:13:20.53
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:13:20.32
Bill
And I'm just like. 1966? 1959?

00:13:23.32
Mike
Right.

00:13:25.28
Bill
Yeah. you know And again, that's crazy.

00:13:26.85
Mike
Yeah, yeah, pushing 70 years ago.

00:13:29.33
Bill
I know. It's just fucking crazy. Just fucking crazy.

00:13:30.86
Mike
Meow.

00:13:31.32
Bill
So anyhow, so back to that. What what are your thoughts on the on that whole thing?

00:13:34.08
Mike
Right. Well... Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, we're we're we're different. We're special.

00:13:39.21
Bill
Mm hmm.

00:13:39.73
Mike
I'm unique i'm right this thing can't be for me um

00:13:44.17
Bill
Right.

00:13:44.74
Mike
You know, yeah, looking for the differences, man. um Again, we we think we're we're fucking different than everybody else. and You know, um I actually usually put this in my lead if I remember to, but I try to, um you know, right. I mean, I'm different. I'm I'm not like the rest of the people in the world. and um You know, it's it's absolutely true, you know. oh my

00:14:13.37
Mike
i'm not normal Um... But I walk into that church basement. And I'm exactly the same as everybody in there. And. um you know, that of course that.

00:14:25.18
Mike
bothered the fuck out of me early on um you know because yeah i'm fucking punk rock man and yeah um

00:14:27.79
Bill
yeah Right.

00:14:34.50
Mike
You know, ah but I'm not. I'm not. And it is. you know. Time. started moving on and i started actually figuring some shit out and you know heard that popping sound and my head came out of my ass and all that fun stuff um I actually... find comfort in the fact that I'm exactly the same as all those people in that church basement. um I'm no longer alone.

00:14:59.28
Bill
Right.

00:14:59.24
Mike
You know? and um it's it's It's nice, you know, no matter where I go in the world. um um I can find somebody who's exactly like me.

00:15:09.68
Mike
And, you know, I mean, shit, that's why we're all looking for that. Somehow or one form or another, you know, I mean we're looking for it in the bottom of a bottle or a bag or whatever um And yeah, we found it in a goddamn church basement.

00:15:25.41
Bill
Right.

00:15:26.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:27.20
Bill
Yeah, and, ah you know, it is fucking egotistical as i is I can be, and I certainly was when I got to the Keating Center.

00:15:32.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:34.56
Bill
And I know I talked about this in my story, I believe, and I know I've talked about it since.

00:15:38.33
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:39.22
Bill
you know But standing there you know at the Keating Center with Mom and Kathy and walking through.

00:15:43.28
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:15:43.10
Bill
and you know i mean I came out and I'm like this. Looks like a fucking homeless shelter. It it was, you know.

00:15:47.14
Mike
Sure. Well, yeah. very

00:15:48.98
Bill
And, the you know, I'm going to die here. I'm going to get beat up.

00:15:52.40
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:15:52.13
Bill
to Somebody's going to kill me. I'm like, like i don't I'm not like these people.

00:15:53.59
Mike
Sure.

00:15:55.76
Bill
You know, I mean, i didn't those words I didn't say to them, I don't think.

00:15:56.33
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Sure.

00:15:59.91
Bill
But, I mean, in my head, um I was, you know, because the the thing of it is, so.

00:15:59.82
Mike
Right. Yeah. yeah

00:16:05.43
Bill
Visually. you know A lot of the people at the Keating Center, you know the I would say the majority of the the people, they were they were younger than us, a lot of the guys at that time frame.

00:16:14.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:16.24
Bill
um a lot of the

00:16:16.11
Mike
Right

00:16:17.67
Bill
you know, the jeans and the white t-shirts and the, you know, the short hair, the Cleveland, the Cleveland, you know, homeboy type of look and in a lot of the, the, the people, you know, so, I mean, visually, again, a lot of these people did not look like me, you know, and

00:16:19.81
Mike
Mhm.

00:16:23.100
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:30.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:32.49
Bill
Maybe didn't come from an area like I did, but I wasn't any better from that part. I lived in the suburbs, but I was about to lose the place that I was in.

00:16:38.81
Mike
Huh. Uh huh.

00:16:40.71
Bill
I didn't know where I was going to go. I didn't.

00:16:42.40
Mike
Right?

00:16:43.34
Bill
quite care at the time frame so again no better just just geographically I was in a different place and then and then all said and done you know All these people that I thought you know were, and i I know I've said this before, and I know everyone comes to this realization that really spends a little bit of time around this thing.

00:16:44.46
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:16:49.33
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:16:56.13
Mike
Hmm.

00:16:59.79
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:00.13
Bill
All these people I thought they were going to hurt me or harm me were out to get me, were out to kill me or rob me or whatever.

00:17:04.98
Mike
Mm-hmm. Hmm.

00:17:06.59
Bill
wanted nothing more than for me to live. you know And they wanted nothing more than to help me.

00:17:09.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:11.35
Bill
And and the same thing back, as it turned out.

00:17:14.46
Mike
Right.

00:17:15.21
Bill
All I wanted to do was help these people. I don't care where the fuck they came from.

00:17:18.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:18.56
Bill
I don't care what color you are, what religion you are. i don't I don't give a fuck who you voted for.

00:17:20.95
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:22.81
Bill
I don't care about any of that. I don't care what you did. Your stories are amusing every once in a while.

00:17:27.89
Mike
He he he he he he he.

00:17:28.61
Bill
you know i mean some of them And some stories we hear, they're fun, and you know we all laugh.

00:17:30.28
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

00:17:32.76
Bill
And I didn't do that, but I get it. you know Well, you didn't do what I did, but you get it.

00:17:35.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:37.93
Mike
Right?

00:17:38.12
Bill
you know but All said and done, we're just there to we're there for the same fucking reason. you know.

00:17:41.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:17:42.50
Bill
and you know it's it's kind of amazing so in in the when it comes to the women part of things so when um

00:17:42.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:51.23
Bill
and and i didn't well i ah I was to say, I don't know that I ever met a... Before I came into the the Keating Center and out to Cleveland when I got sober, I mean i knew plenty of male alcoholics from you know my dad and going to meetings with him and all those sort of things over the years.

00:17:58.28
Mike
m

00:18:01.86
Mike
Sure.

00:18:05.38
Bill
I don't know that I ever met a...

00:18:05.10
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:18:07.94
Bill
Well, Phyllis, I met. years ago. she's probably the only sober female that I had ever met in my life up to that point that I know for, that I know for sure, you know, I'm not saying that, you know, I didn't meet somebody.

00:18:14.29
Mike
Right? Yeah. Mm hmm. Right. Of course.

00:18:19.94
Bill
You know, But as we started to meet these women, um you know some of the things that I that i learned is I'm like, They're fucking badasses, number one.

00:18:20.17
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:18:26.29
Mike
Uh-huh. Oh yeah. Hehehehehehe.

00:18:29.22
Bill
I mean, half of them probably would have, not probably, half of them probably would have killed us, you know?

00:18:32.16
Mike
Mm. Yeah, oh yeah.

00:18:35.08
Bill
given the opportunity but here was the interesting thing that i that i heard and i read and i've heard it on podcast episodes and also in a lot of leads and i think you've heard the same thing is that it seems like and i don't know i don't know if this is a statistical fact i've heard people say those words.

00:18:36.58
Mike
Yep.

00:18:42.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:18:50.64
Bill
but that... Sometimes women start... could start a little bit later but get to that end point whatever that that downfall is quicker than men and i don't know if it's just the physical aspect of it whatever the deal is but i've heard that on numerous occasions have you heard that too yes no

00:18:59.32
Mike
Hmm.

00:19:02.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:05.75
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and it's I'm sure it is, you know, the the physiology of of women. you know Yeah, the fairer sex.

00:19:12.18
Bill
Right.

00:19:14.60
Mike
I mean... You know, there's there's truth in that shit. um Yeah, you know, we could beat ourselves up more than they can.

00:19:24.44
Bill
Right.

00:19:24.65
Mike
Um, Yeah. So, yeah, you know, once they get there and get to that point, it does happen a bit quicker, I think, you know, some. Clearly, these are generalizations. They're not everybody.

00:19:38.70
Mike
But, um you know, because there's definitely broads out there that ran hard for a long time.

00:19:39.00
Bill
Right.

00:19:43.46
Mike
I i know a few of them.

00:19:44.99
Bill
Eh. Yeah.

00:19:46.44
Mike
Um, Yeah. Right. you know, but yes. um and but again the differences man you know and yeah and i get that especially I understand, you know, the early days of AA, man, you know, it brought... did Yeah, the women were like, we're not going to.

00:20:03.61
Mike
you know just just i'm not an alcoholic i'm not like you guys you know um just can't work for me because you know yeah no honey it can and it does and just fucking do it

00:20:14.64
Bill
Right. Right.

00:20:18.70
Bill
Yeah, and it's so it it is kind of interesting, but I didn't realize so. What did they say at the beginning of that reading? It was four years until the first?

00:20:24.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:25.44
Bill
Female came in.

00:20:26.22
Mike
Right.

00:20:26.42
Bill
That's really I

00:20:26.39
Mike
Well, ah that that stayed sober. Yeah.

00:20:29.29
Bill
Okay.

00:20:30.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:31.04
Bill
Yeah, i don't I don't know that I've ever heard that.

00:20:31.18
Mike
Yats.

00:20:34.34
Bill
I don't know if I ever heard that before.

00:20:34.53
Mike
Right?

00:20:35.68
Bill
you know I was going to say...

00:20:36.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:36.38
Bill
you know statistic that's not really a statistic but i don't think i've ever heard that statement before

00:20:39.21
Mike
I mean, well, clearly, you know, I mean, they were they were mostly working with men because that's they were in. So, yeah, but.

00:20:45.24
Bill
Right?

00:20:46.38
Mike
um you know i i do know that like early on you know women did come around and and you know i mean shit You know, ah definitely ah situations where the man and the woman are both doing the same fucking thing.

00:21:02.56
Mike
Um,

00:21:02.73
Bill
Right.

00:21:03.22
Mike
yeah so you know a guy comes in and You know, yeah, the women. come in and, then hey, what's this? You know, George is ah not drinking and doing a little better and seems slightly happier. You know, what's this all about? What's all this then? Hey.

00:21:21.18
Mike
Yeah. um Yeah, you know, so I'm sure they they came around, but like Bill said, you know, they they fucking... I'm different this can't be for me.

00:21:30.13
Bill
Right.

00:21:30.68
Mike
It is. Yeah, we're all the fucking same.

00:21:33.04
Bill
Right. Well, they'll read in the 24-hour book every once in a while where it's talking about you know thousands of people all in different states in the country and now it's fucking millions of people all over the world.

00:21:40.24
Mike
Uh huh.

00:21:42.71
Mike
Right.

00:21:44.12
Bill
I mean, we've talked about that before. I mean, yeah it doesn't matter. that, you know, the especially when people talk about this, the the whole God thing, which we did, you know, obviously when, you know, thinking it was just a God thing before we understood the power greater than ourselves and all that stuff, you know, but not really understanding that it's not that, because if it was that, you know, at least this, you know, this traditional, um you know, the the United States Christianity type of God thing, it wouldn't work all over the world.

00:21:57.89
Mike
huh

00:22:02.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:08.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:11.22
Bill
It just wouldn't, you know?

00:22:11.33
Mike
Right. Right.

00:22:12.94
Bill
So that's, you know, the whole power greater than your than yourself and the fact that, That part of it, and and we talk about the certain areas of things that were you know softened up over the years, and especially to begin with.

00:22:23.13
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:24.37
Bill
you know How it works is a great example.

00:22:25.05
Mike
Right.

00:22:26.47
Bill
but um you know Some of these things, the words were softened and changed a little bit. you know Not all of it was necessarily you know a bad thing. you know Some of that thing allowed these other these other individuals all over the world to be included in something that they would have been like.

00:22:34.53
Mike
Mhm.

00:22:38.72
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:40.54
Bill
Well, that's really not for me because.

00:22:42.91
Mike
Right.

00:22:43.82
Bill
I don't, I'm not, I'm really not. a god guy you know a western world god guy you know

00:22:46.10
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. And, you know, well, right here in Cleveland, Ohio, the fucking atheist man. Works the program because, you know, and yeah, it is no, again, not the metaphysical, supernatural, blah, blah, blah.

00:23:01.98
Mike
Something bigger than me that I need to be a part of. That's all that fucking matters.

00:23:05.00
Bill
Right. Right. Yeah, and that's ah you know it's it's kind of funny. I mean, I i do like um i like the fact that that you've... leaned into these you know these as Bill sees it, readings.

00:23:19.12
Mike
Eh.

00:23:18.78
Bill
and you know a lot of they're They're shorter, and ah that has nothing to do with it. but i mean Sometimes they're shorter.

00:23:22.68
Mike
h

00:23:24.20
Bill
they're They have less... clutter i guess to them you know really and because some of these uh like touchstones i mean was it's just there's a lot you know and it's just it was always a and i never really think about it when i'm reading it but when i'm trying to write make notes i'm like god fuck there's like 17 topics in here

00:23:27.35
Mike
mm-hmm

00:23:30.61
Mike
oh Yeah. Right.

00:23:40.87
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:23:41.75
Bill
Goddamn two paragraphs, you know, but

00:23:43.24
Mike
Right.

00:23:44.22
Bill
I do. I like the I don't know. it's that Maybe it's just that that I like the simplicity of it. That's probably what it is.

00:23:48.48
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:49.01
Bill
It's just it's simple.

00:23:49.47
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:50.15
Bill
It's to the point. And, you know, I mean, I don't know.

00:23:51.44
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:52.24
Bill
It's something it is. It's something kind of different. So just a little bit off the off the beaten path of what we've been doing for, you know.

00:23:55.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:58.91
Bill
four years.

00:23:59.71
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:59.69
Bill
So. Well, I like it. I like the readings. that was a

00:24:02.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:03.25
Bill
That was a dandy.

00:24:04.40
Mike
That was, that was a peach.

00:24:07.16
Bill
That's a peach, hon. ah Again, you know if you're if you're a new listener, you've got to watch kind of watch certain movies to know where that's from.

00:24:09.40
Mike
Hehehehehehehehehehehehe.

00:24:14.46
Mike
Uh huh.

00:24:14.68
Bill
If you don't know where that's from... Even people that don't golf, I mean, I would think know that that's from, I mean, you don't know that's from Caddyshack, but I don't know.

00:24:18.63
Mike
Mmm. Yeah. I certainly do not golf and I love that movie. So there you go.

00:24:25.78
Bill
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, there's got to be people out there that probably never saw it, I would guess. but I don't know, you know, Office Space is one you probably got to watch.

00:24:30.17
Mike
m

00:24:32.90
Bill
We make references to that. Oh, yeah you know what?

00:24:34.44
Mike
who

00:24:36.82
Bill
I kept forgetting to tell you this, um or keep forgetting to tell you this, and it just popped into my head.

00:24:36.48
Mike
v Hmm.

00:24:41.07
Bill
Thank you. I keep forgetting to write it down. um I watched Smokey and the Bandit.

00:24:45.88
Mike
No.

00:24:46.54
Bill
Um... well god now probably maybe it was a month ago i just I

00:24:50.36
Mike
Okay.

00:24:51.99
Bill
yeah Again, turn the TV on and I've got this, it's Google TV.

00:24:53.53
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:55.75
Bill
So again, it makes my TV like a smart TV. It just, it's like a.

00:24:58.55
Mike
Right?

00:24:59.65
Bill
just like any sort of other, or any other smart TV is the same type of thing. But, you know, I see this for Smokey and the band and I'm like, fucking really? So.

00:25:06.52
Mike
Mmm.

00:25:07.24
Bill
a A lot of these things, there there' this you know it's 2B, it's this, it's all these different things that there are commercials and whatever it was.

00:25:11.22
Mike
hu

00:25:13.36
Bill
It was on like... netflix or something either netflix or amazon prime one of the two

00:25:15.62
Mike
Hmm.

00:25:18.80
Bill
So i just I flipped it. I started watching it. I think I watched... i don't even think i I don't think I finished it the first night. i might have watched It's not a long movie, actually, but I watched a good majority of it.

00:25:25.27
Mike
o No.

00:25:29.30
Bill
I'm just like, this is fucking funny. i mean it's great i mean just watching it after after all these years it's been so long since i've seen it

00:25:30.89
Mike
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:25:35.84
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:25:37.42
Bill
And I'm like, this is fucking wonderful. Just it' just great.

00:25:39.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:40.28
Bill
Just fucking great.

00:25:40.47
Mike
Yeah, it absolutely is. Yes. It's why I chose the profession that I'm in.

00:25:45.88
Bill
yeah i i remember that so it had nothing to do with the movie convoy or that song convoy

00:25:49.88
Mike
No. No, no, no, no.

00:25:52.79
Bill
What was that dude's name that sang that W?

00:25:53.29
Mike
No. WC McCall.

00:25:56.22
Bill
But... Yeah, there you go. I was going to say WC, not WC Fields, but yeah, WC McCall.

00:25:59.88
Mike
Yeah. CW McCall.

00:26:02.37
Bill
See? we We both got it wrong.

00:26:03.87
Mike
Yes.

00:26:05.04
Bill
WC, McCall, CW.

00:26:05.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:06.30
Bill
There you go.

00:26:07.14
Mike
Yes, CW McCall, yes, yes, yes.

00:26:07.67
Bill
There you go. All right, so anyhow, yeah.

00:26:10.89
Mike
Yes, not not Convoy, that awful movie with Kris Kristofferson.

00:26:12.94
Bill
Right.

00:26:15.22
Mike
No.

00:26:15.20
Bill
Yep, i I saw that flash across the screen not too long ago either.

00:26:18.53
Mike
i thought

00:26:18.90
Bill
That's why it just made me think about that when I was talking about that too. But yeah, anyhow, it's... ah i i Was gonna tell you it's like whatever week I watched that's gonna tell you that I just completely fucking it forgot so

00:26:28.52
Mike
Alright.

00:26:29.28
Bill
So anyhow, so yeah, I got to got to watch that. but um All right, so from the reading, anything.

00:26:34.16
Mike
Mmm.

00:26:34.64
Bill
Anything additional to...

00:26:34.41
Mike
Mm.

00:26:36.60
Bill
to that reading.

00:26:37.74
Mike
No, just you know, whatever man don't think you're fucking different don't Yeah, yeah.

00:26:40.56
Bill
Ha! Just whatever, man.

00:26:46.22
Mike
you know stop thinking you're different stop thinking you're special and unique and you're not you're you know again Garden variety drunk.

00:26:46.33
Bill
hey

00:26:51.72
Bill
Right.

00:26:54.12
Mike
It's my favorite way to describe myself because that's exactly what I am.

00:26:57.94
Bill
Right.

00:26:57.42
Mike
A garden variety drunk who did a whole bunch of fucking dope.

00:27:01.37
Bill
Right. Right.

00:27:01.92
Mike
Yep.

00:27:02.94
Bill
Yeah, which, I mean, i like the I always like the description, too. It's ah it's a great way to put it.

00:27:06.63
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:27:07.65
Bill
so All right, so a couple of things. so I heard this week. Well, I don't know if everyone knows, but Katie Segal, married with children.

00:27:16.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:17.29
Bill
I'm sopreo not Sopranos, but the Sons of Anarchy.

00:27:19.86
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:27:19.72
Bill
She's been in a ton of shit. um She just got 40 years.

00:27:23.28
Mike
Really?

00:27:23.97
Bill
Yeah, this this week.

00:27:24.53
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:24.94
Bill
A few days ago, they yeah they talked about it i either... I think I saw it online and I heard it some somewhere else. I saw it in two different places.

00:27:32.29
Mike
Hmm.

00:27:31.97
Bill
I'm like, God damn, I knew she'd been sober for fucking ever, but...

00:27:34.64
Mike
Right.

00:27:35.47
Bill
um But, yeah, so, yeah, 40 fucking years sober.

00:27:37.54
Mike
Uh oh.

00:27:37.84
Bill
and

00:27:38.70
Mike
Congratulations, Peg.

00:27:40.23
Bill
Yeah, Peg. And like I said, she was in Sons of Anarchy. and i'm Watching this show, re-watching it, it's called Dead to Me that has...

00:27:43.95
Mike
Hmm?

00:27:49.26
Bill
Christina Applegate.

00:27:49.76
Mike
Oh yeah.

00:27:49.90
Bill
and Yeah, you'd know the other one, in and I can't think of her name. but um the Katie Segal plays the one character. Christina Applegate, but the other character's mom in her Katie Segal's in prison.

00:28:00.58
Mike
Huh.

00:28:03.15
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:28:03.99
Bill
But so, yeah, just like like, you know, it's like two days ago. i've been Well, I've been watching this for like a week or so, you know, kind of rewatching this series. And then I hear the Katie Segal thing.

00:28:10.08
Mike
Mmm.

00:28:11.06
Bill
I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.

00:28:12.43
Mike
Absolutely.

00:28:13.63
Bill
So the other thing too, and I just want to bring this up briefly, and when when the... When I originally listened to the book, um We had talked about it, but on on the drive down here, because I mean i had and a half hours in the car.

00:28:24.36
Mike
so

00:28:25.72
Bill
you know and I'll tell you about that in a minute too.

00:28:26.25
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:28:28.08
Bill
but um so Matthew Perry, I'm re-listening to his book.

00:28:31.77
Mike
Okay.

00:28:32.37
Bill
Because I'm like, you know what? now that i Obviously, the whole story is played out.

00:28:36.83
Mike
ah

00:28:36.83
Bill
i'm like i wonder how i remember certain things had irritated me about it but i couldn't remember exactly what it was and then i'm like i wonder how it'll be listening to it

00:28:41.47
Mike
Right.

00:28:45.88
Bill
once again knowing how this all played out you know

00:28:48.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:48.82
Bill
And I remembered what irritated me about it was two things. Number one was I couldn't, it was almost one of those things, even. Different than when I listened to um all the shit about Charlie Sheen after listening to his book and all those different things.

00:29:01.68
Mike
hu

00:29:03.14
Bill
I mean, I was just like. This guy was living. Charlie Sheen was... unapologetic he was just telling a story and in just the way he wasn't trying to dance around what he was he's like just this is who i was he wasn't trying to glamorize it he was just telling stories that were unbelievable and you're like this this it even you know he should have been dead obviously over and over and over again.

00:29:09.80
Mike
mm-hmm

00:29:18.72
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:29:25.35
Mike
Mhm.

00:29:26.12
Bill
um No doubt. Now, Matthew Perry, what bothered me to begin with was his... Almost a nonchalant type of nature.

00:29:34.34
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:29:34.70
Bill
throughout the whole thing and i forgot that that's probably one of the things that bothered me to begin with but as i'm listening to it this time i'm like there are two things it's a wonder it took him that long to die and i know that's probably a harsh statement but

00:29:45.37
Mike
Right. Hmm. well

00:29:47.55
Bill
It is what it is.

00:29:48.48
Mike
mm-hmm

00:29:49.17
Bill
And. um I'm not surprised at all. that he died the way that he did. Because he...

00:29:54.64
Mike
Right.

00:29:56.31
Bill
He never really – and I'm not to the end of the book yet. I remember at the end him talking and how he was talking about he had been sober for a certain amount of time. I'm interested to get to that point again to listen to – how he sounds at that point, because right now...

00:30:06.81
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:30:11.13
Bill
um it's It's kind of like, okay, he never really fully committed. If you remember, I told you that...

00:30:15.76
Mike
Right.

00:30:16.22
Bill
um He only mentions Bill Wilson when he talks about Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:30:21.29
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:30:21.59
Bill
He says the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, Bill Wilson. He never mentions Dr. Bob. which I thought was weird.

00:30:25.66
Mike
o Mm-hmm.

00:30:27.16
Bill
And then all these different things you just see is. Over and over and over again. I can do this, but I can't do that. His big line at one point, that part that I'm listening to.

00:30:32.74
Mike
ah

00:30:36.31
Bill
He said, I can stay sober. through anything until anything happens.

00:30:41.61
Mike
ah

00:30:42.48
Bill
Okay, so that's his line, you know.

00:30:43.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:30:45.08
Bill
Basically, that when something it doesn't even have to be a big thing. Anything happens, and and he can't stay sober.

00:30:48.43
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm

00:30:51.28
Bill
And i'm I'm listening to all these times when he relapsed and all these different things, and I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:30:51.18
Mike
Right

00:30:56.20
Bill
I mean, it's just... fucking crazy and you know the The idea, and I don't know if somebody... I'm a little, ah probably. i don't I'm not going to lump you into this.

00:31:06.65
Bill
I'm just going to say I'm a little cynical after knowing that the things that that we have been taught and the people we've seen.

00:31:07.37
Mike
Hmm.

00:31:13.44
Bill
And we can tell, you know, when when somebody dies, it's kind of like, well, fuck, of course they did. You know, I mean, I didn't want them to or anything like that, but I but i get it.

00:31:17.47
Mike
mm-hmm Of course.

00:31:21.16
Bill
you know.

00:31:21.40
Mike
We out.

00:31:22.27
Bill
Daryl's a great example.

00:31:23.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:31:23.30
Bill
Love that dude to death. you know But when I found out that he died, I'm like, well...

00:31:27.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:27.74
Bill
Of course, i mean you know because he couldn't he couldn't grasp it.

00:31:28.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:30.53
Bill
you know

00:31:30.90
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:31.77
Bill
Now, the other thing, too, is that his... His book, Matthew Perry's book was ah to begin with going to be entitled or not entitled, going to be titled Unaccompanied Minor because he was when his parents split up. He was living in Canada with his mom. Dad was in L .A., and he was flying back and forth, and he was all freaked out all the time because he was flying.

00:31:48.95
Bill
As an unaccompanied minor.

00:31:50.43
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:31:50.76
Bill
So he always had this, this apparently this point of feeling like he was always going to be left or left behind. So every part of his fucking life that he's talking about relationships and jobs and anything like that.

00:32:02.30
Mike
mm-hmm

00:32:02.00
Bill
It's like this fear of abandonment. I'm like. dude, you got to fucking get over yourself, you know?

00:32:06.44
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:07.44
Bill
And that's all that I keep thinking about this. And I'm like, You know, I mean... ah they Again, they talk about people drinking over things and using over things. if you got that's ah That's a big fucking deal. you know If that's your deal.

00:32:17.17
Mike
Mm hmm. Hmm.

00:32:20.35
Bill
You got to kind of get over it, but...

00:32:22.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:22.50
Bill
And last thing on that, so he's talking about this, he went through all this trauma therapy, which I forgot about this part. He said what they're supposed to do with trauma therapies, he said, basically, um you know, rip you apart, open you up, rip you apart.

00:32:27.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:32:33.86
Bill
um Dig through all the stuff. make it you know so you can tell a story about it rather than have it be a problem and then put you back together now he says he goes they didn't put me back together

00:32:43.58
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:32:45.17
Bill
Again, blaming somebody else.

00:32:46.80
Mike
Of course. Yeah, that's that's what I do remember the first time and when you were talking about it.

00:32:47.61
Bill
You know?

00:32:51.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:32:51.40
Mike
Yeah, he just never took responsibility for anything.

00:32:54.83
Bill
No.

00:32:55.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:55.30
Bill
Nope.

00:32:55.90
Mike
Yeah, which is, which will fucking kill you.

00:32:56.17
Bill
Nope.

00:32:58.13
Mike
It'll kill us. Right.

00:32:59.62
Bill
Right?

00:33:00.19
Mike
Yeah. yeah absolutely i mean that's that i I've ah always said the greatest gift that this program has given us is is we're fucking responsible for everything.

00:33:11.62
Bill
Right.

00:33:11.90
Mike
and and And from that comes true freedom. And until you get there and until you done the work and you go, yup. Everything's fucking my fault. Everything. everything good bad indifferent it's all i've got a place i've got a piece of it you know i've got a I played it a part in everything, you know, and I mean, even, even stuff that.

00:33:35.91
Mike
You know, again, we've talked about a million times, you know, you're walking down the street and somebody punches you in the face, right?

00:33:39.82
Bill
Right.

00:33:40.78
Mike
yeah right it's that's you play a part in that and once once you take that responsibility that's where the true freedom comes nobody's got any fucking dominion over me they're gonna abandon me okay Bye.

00:33:44.99
Bill
Right.

00:33:55.03
Mike
You know, that's fine. I'll find somebody else or I won't or whatever, but I'm going to be okay with myself. And, and it's, it's again. I am responsible for all of it. I'm responsible for...

00:34:07.75
Mike
And apparently, you know, not being good enough for you to hang out with. Okay. I'm responsible for that. That's cool. Go hang out with somebody else.

00:34:13.70
Bill
Right.

00:34:15.31
Mike
I'll fly. You know, I'll be responsible. to hang out with somebody else. you know, or I won't or whatever. But again, it's, it's fuck. It's all me, man. And no matter what happens, I'm still here.

00:34:27.50
Mike
That's the other thing. No matter what fucking I'm, I'm stuck with me.

00:34:28.93
Bill
Right.

00:34:32.06
Mike
So, um, I better be kind of okay with myself because this.

00:34:32.30
Bill
Right.

00:34:35.96
Mike
All I fucking got.

00:34:37.80
Bill
Right.

00:34:38.27
Mike
Yeah, you know, but again, yeah, that like I said, you... that was the biggest problem that you had with it. And I totally see it. Yeah. He would not take responsibility for.

00:34:49.25
Mike
himself or anyone else or yeah fuck that man

00:34:53.11
Bill
Right.

00:34:53.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:53.97
Bill
Well, and and that's why in the, you know, all said and done, and now the the people that got arrested and, you know, the people that are going to jail.

00:35:00.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:01.22
Bill
you know around this whole you know his whole death

00:35:03.80
Mike
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:35:05.17
Bill
And here's the thing, and I was thinking about it again. I hadn't thought about it in a while, but um this is just my my personal opinion. And I thought about it when you know I mentioned it when I i watched the documentary.

00:35:11.56
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:35:15.15
Bill
I mentioned it when I first read it. You and I have talked about this a couple of times. but Now, if if the if the doctor did something outside of the ah the law, which as far as you know when it whether it was Matthew Perry or whether it was me or you.

00:35:24.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:28.16
Mike
Right.

00:35:28.87
Bill
prescribing or doing something that was illegal with the drugs, fine.

00:35:31.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:31.79
Bill
Arrest him or her and put him or her in jail for that.

00:35:35.15
Mike
Sure.

00:35:35.96
Bill
You know, it has nothing to do with Matthew fucking Perry.

00:35:35.78
Mike
Right.

00:35:38.34
Bill
Okay, that's but that's my opinion.

00:35:38.35
Mike
Right.

00:35:39.39
Bill
And then this this ketamine queen out there, okay, she's a fucking drug dealer.

00:35:39.82
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:35:42.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:44.10
Bill
OK, and, you know, I mean, a high powered, um you know, high profile drug dealer.

00:35:44.17
Mike
Yeah. Right? yeah Hmm? Sure.

00:35:49.11
Bill
And, you know, if if what she's doing, the things that she's done, if they're illegal, then she OK, fine.

00:35:53.89
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:55.06
Bill
You know, we've talked about this legalizing drugs.

00:35:55.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:57.02
Bill
I'm 100 percent behind you on all of that.

00:35:59.14
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:35:59.08
Bill
But at this point, if if what she was doing was illegal, then fine.

00:36:02.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:02.56
Bill
Arrest her and put her in prison for that.

00:36:04.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:05.21
Bill
Not for fucking Matthew Perry. you know.

00:36:06.80
Mike
Right.

00:36:07.76
Bill
And, you know, when people, you know, he's talking about I'm literally in the book, too. You know, i I spent millions of dollars on therapy and millions of dollars on on, you know, treatment.

00:36:15.47
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:36:16.38
Bill
And a lot of people didn't have the opportunities that I did. Well, fuck that.

00:36:19.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:36:20.31
Bill
Your money is what killed you, motherfucker. You know, in in my opinion, because here's the one thing.

00:36:22.42
Mike
Mhm. Yeah. Well.

00:36:25.74
Bill
that he said to, and I forgot about from the first time. This is just. The other night when I was listening to it. He said, he goes, if I was just a normal individual. I didn't have the kind of money that I had.

00:36:37.14
Bill
He said I'd probably be in prison right now with a face tattoo.

00:36:40.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:41.45
Bill
Which I thought was kind of funny.

00:36:41.33
Mike
Right. well Hmm.

00:36:42.36
Bill
But then I'm like, I'm like. That is true because what would have happened, the type of habit that he built up, and I mean the 50 and 80 and all these pills or whatever, the amount of drugs that he was taking.

00:36:49.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:54.67
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:36:55.45
Bill
you know, and needed to just, as he was putting it, just to keep even, um I mean, he wouldn't have the money for it.

00:36:59.30
Mike
Right.

00:37:01.43
Bill
So what are you going to do? You're going to rob, like you say, little old lady in the stores and whatever.

00:37:03.02
Mike
Yeah. yeah Mm hmm.

00:37:06.17
Bill
There's no fucking way he would have been walking the streets. He would have done that To try to support that habit, he would have got arrested.

00:37:08.17
Mike
Right.

00:37:12.80
Bill
years ago.

00:37:12.46
Mike
Yeah, right Yeah.

00:37:13.61
Bill
you know

00:37:14.33
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:16.20
Bill
So, but yeah, the biggest thing is that, yeah, they're not taking a responsibility 100%.

00:37:19.07
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:37:20.51
Bill
But I'm just i'm curious, and i and I think I know how the end of the book is going to go again. i just It's been but a couple of years since i've since I've listened to it, but i'm like you ah just I've been thinking about it for a little while, I think it since after he died, about listening to it again.

00:37:27.67
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:37:33.64
Bill
And I'm glad I did, because it's just it it kind of, ah I don't know. For whatever reason, it's just opening up my eyes to bullshit again, you know, because I.

00:37:40.81
Mike
a

00:37:42.25
Bill
And it it really is. i don't i don't I don't go to enough meetings. I don't listen to enough of these podcasts because I don't want to hear some of these stories sometimes.

00:37:48.41
Mike
ah

00:37:48.71
Bill
But, I mean, a lot of times when I listen in a podcast, I hear the i can hear the fucking bullshit.

00:37:52.81
Mike
Oh yeah. Yeah.

00:37:53.59
Bill
you know, And when when we've had guests on, and like I said, Austin, when he had said that he relapsed, neither one of us asked.

00:37:59.41
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:38:00.57
Bill
Never asked.

00:38:00.51
Mike
Right.

00:38:00.73
Bill
Well, Austin. why Why did you relapse?

00:38:02.60
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:38:04.28
Bill
And, you know, we didn't think of I didn't think about saying it while he was on here. I would have said it to his face or to his to his voice while he was on here.

00:38:09.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:09.90
Bill
And, i'm you know, so we're certainly not talking be beyond his back, you know, but, um you know, anything like that. It's just recognizing and hearing that just a fucking bullshit again. I'm like, like, oh, my God.

00:38:17.71
Mike
Yes. Yeah. Right.

00:38:20.83
Mike
He he he he he he he he

00:38:21.78
Bill
Yeah. it is, it's the it's the it is the it's the the lack of... absolute lack of fucking responsibility it just um i don't know just

00:38:28.13
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. responsibility and accountability man its if you don't have that shit you're fucking doomed

00:38:30.24
Bill
Crazy.

00:38:34.99
Bill
Right.

00:38:35.46
Mike
Yeah, if you're one of us, you're you're fucking doomed, you know. And, yeah, blaming others and all. God, yeah, it'll kill us.

00:38:42.72
Bill
Right.

00:38:44.34
Mike
Absolutely fucking kill us. That's why I... Don't do that anymore.

00:38:48.83
Bill
So before this run, I mean, and and I know you've mentioned before that, you know, at different times that you were into whatever it was, the Salvation Army and times of sobriety you had and stuff like that.

00:38:52.53
Mike
Hmm.

00:38:56.67
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:38:57.61
Bill
And you openly admitted that you didn't. you know work the steps completely, all those sort of things. but Do you think that that was that one of the things that you were doing was not taking responsibility at those times?

00:39:02.02
Mike
Right.

00:39:07.54
Mike
100%. Yeah.

00:39:08.65
Bill
Okay.

00:39:09.07
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah. Of course. you know i i mean i openly said you know i expected you people to get me sober Yeah.

00:39:17.43
Bill
but Right.

00:39:19.31
Mike
And when that didn't happen, hey, I didn't stay sober. Imagine that. Um, Rawr! Of course, and continued to blame, and yes. you know, society, you know, God, blah, blah, blah.

00:39:32.48
Mike
Right. You know, society made me this way, man. Nobody fucking made me this way. I wanted to fucking feel good all the time.

00:39:39.67
Bill
Right.

00:39:41.70
Mike
Selfish and self-centered. That is the root of my troubles.

00:39:43.69
Bill
Right. Right. Yeah, it's just that, you know, when we were just talking about that, I don't know that, I mean, it it makes sense. I mean, I would have guessed that that was part of the part of the thing.

00:39:52.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:54.26
Bill
I just don't know that I've ever asked you that directly.

00:39:55.92
Mike
Huh?

00:39:56.40
Bill
so um But yeah.

00:39:56.62
Mike
Right. Yeah. Oh yeah. 100 fucking percent. Yep. this

00:40:02.16
Bill
ah Unbelievable. so um Well, you know, and I do want to hear about your, because I didn't get a chance to listen to your radio gig, and I want to hear about your radio gig, but also I'll tell you about my my last week Friday also and the trip down here.

00:40:08.26
Mike
m

00:40:13.61
Bill
But in the in the meantime, what do you think?

00:40:15.69
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:40:16.02
Bill
Maybe we should jump into a break. What do you say?

00:40:17.88
Mike
Let's fucking do it, man. You know what? I'm dying to hear some fucking advertisements. So we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

00:40:38.01
Bill
All. All right, everyone. Welcome back.

00:40:40.96
Mike
Hey, now I know what to do with my life.

00:40:45.24
Bill
She got advertisements out of there.

00:40:46.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:47.37
Bill
Yeah. Yeah, you know, ah let me let me take a little side rant here real quick.

00:40:47.83
Mike
Right.

00:40:51.80
Bill
if you and i don't I don't necessarily think that any podcast, any other podcast necessarily would listen to us. But if you're if you're a listener of other podcasts, and you'll you'll probably notice, hopefully,

00:41:00.22
Mike
m

00:41:03.06
Bill
If you're a listener of our podcast and a listener of any other podcast out there, um I specifically only. um bank One ad. At the beginning of pre-roll ad, I do one.

00:41:13.61
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:14.44
Bill
It doesn't always show up because depending on the circumstance, sometimes Spotify won't won't play it right in the beginning. Sometimes it doesn't pick up based on the area. But I banked one ad in the beginning. The ads that go out throughout the episode, there's only one. At the end, I dropped two. Bigger fuck it if you listen to the past.

00:41:30.98
Bill
everything. You're going to get two ads if you listen through and then wait for the next episode.

00:41:34.69
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:34.84
Bill
But... So many other podcasts out there, especially at the beginning, they'll they'll have three fucking ads at the beginning of their podcast.

00:41:42.47
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:43.67
Bill
as ah As a consumer... of podcasts, I fucking hate you for doing that.

00:41:45.34
Mike
hu

00:41:49.26
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:41:49.39
Bill
Okay. Whoever you are, I hate you for doing it.

00:41:52.91
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:52.88
Bill
Because I don't know any ads in there. I want to hear the beginning, whatever the thing is. and yeah try to you know, forward through and then you skip and you backwards and whatever. And I try to be considerate because I understand that.

00:42:04.43
Bill
people I understand why people are doing it. We don't make a lot of money off of ads, but you make a little bit. It's a little bit. It it could it could do things for your growth. So I try to be understanding of that. But I fucking hate you if you have that many ads in there. And if you drop three ads in between, as as like we just did, we do one ad. We do our promo. We do one ad in that break. That's it.

00:42:23.77
Mike
Right.

00:42:23.76
Bill
That's at the most.

00:42:25.07
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:42:25.44
Bill
You know, but so again. Don't fucking... Double and triple up your goddamn ads.

00:42:28.92
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:42:30.15
Bill
Stop it.

00:42:31.31
Mike
Uh huh.

00:42:31.100
Bill
That has nothing to do with me being a podcaster or a fellow podcaster. It has to do with me being a consumer of podcasts. so

00:42:39.04
Mike
Yes.

00:42:40.04
Bill
Fuck you and your ads.

00:42:41.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:41.66
Bill
Okay, anyhow. So. Back to something positive. How was your radio gig?

00:42:46.30
Mike
yeah It's great. yeah it was it was it was yeah a good time as always um it was

00:42:48.31
Bill
hey

00:42:52.45
Mike
Good to be back with Bill. um You know, I mean, not the best of circumstances. His mother died about a week.

00:42:59.94
Bill
Oh, really?

00:43:00.37
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah. About a week or so before. And this is fucked up. but um when i did it last year his wife died the night that i fucking was doing it

00:43:11.79
Bill
Oh really?

00:43:11.99
Mike
um Yeah, that's why I was in there with John. um

00:43:14.88
Bill
Um. Oh shit.

00:43:15.44
Mike
Yeah, he was. he was you know, at the hospice with his wife. Yeah. So the anniversary of his wife dying, the year anniversary was the following day and he just lost his mom too. So yeah, it was, you know, but it was cool. It was nice. I went in there, we. talked about a bunch of shit and uh you know i played a bunch of he

00:43:36.35
Mike
kept saying over and over oh man you're just playing great stuff you're playing great stuff and so i i made him happy which was you know a bonus on top of the whole thing it was it was nice yeah so it was a good time

00:43:45.68
Bill
Right.

00:43:47.82
Mike
all the way around

00:43:49.45
Bill
Yeah, well, that's God, that's ah that's a tough one. i mean you know

00:43:51.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:43:52.60
Bill
a spouse and um obviously your mom like that that's and a year a apart i mean they have because it's you know it's one of those things like it i mean not that it's any better to to happen i don't know some other random part of the year but i mean basically the same time of the year if you know i have this reminder like

00:43:53.98
Mike
Great. Yep. Mm hmm.

00:44:04.02
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Mm hmm.

00:44:07.60
Bill
two kind of well two kind of important people in your life or you're like fuck

00:44:09.66
Mike
Yeah. Hehehe. Yep.

00:44:13.51
Bill
Like, i don't I don't like that.

00:44:15.45
Mike
No. Now. But, you know, again. totally good guy and you know getting through and lots of support popular man because he's a good guy and um Yeah.

00:44:24.66
Bill
Right.

00:44:25.58
Mike
You know. So, um yeah. you know, I planted some trees for his mom and, you know, I did the same for his wife a year ago. And yeah, you know, yeah.

00:44:33.50
Bill
Nice.

00:44:34.53
Mike
Oh shit. I'm not supposed to say that anyway. Um, don't I listen to myself at the end of these podcasts? ah Do something nice for somebody and don't tell anybody you did it. Anyway.

00:44:44.27
Bill
Well.

00:44:44.99
Mike
Yes.

00:44:45.19
Bill
Yeah, you're not going to wipe out the good thing. I get it.

00:44:47.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:47.85
Bill
it's ah Every once in a while, it's so it's okay to to let people you know look behind your curtain and see that that you do nice things for people, Mike, even even looking the way you do and acting the way you do.

00:44:48.17
Mike
yeah

00:44:52.90
Mike
Mm-hmm Yeah. Right.

00:44:57.70
Bill
I don't mean acting the way you do. That's not even right.

00:44:59.84
Mike
I know. I know.

00:45:00.98
Bill
That's not right. ah But, no, that's that's nice. That's actually that's actually very nice.

00:45:04.55
Mike
Yes.

00:45:05.98
Bill
so

00:45:06.09
Mike
Yeah, so it was it was a good time. Yes, absolutely. and And lots of good feedback from around the world. I made an Irish guy very happy. and Yeah.

00:45:14.21
Bill
Really? Nice.

00:45:16.36
Mike
Yeah, it was fun, as always. Looking forward to doing it again next year.

00:45:19.64
Bill
Right.

00:45:22.13
Bill
Yeah, and like you said this year, though, they they kind of picked things out of the hat. Are they doing the same thing next year?

00:45:26.21
Mike
Mmm.

00:45:27.05
Bill
or how they You don't know?

00:45:27.08
Mike
I have no idea.

00:45:28.45
Bill
Okay.

00:45:28.56
Mike
No idea. Yep. Mm hmm.

00:45:31.24
Bill
I just didn't know if that was like a new format that they were doing. but

00:45:33.98
Mike
i it's First time they've done it, I think they're it's just um they were getting so many people that wanted to do it. that Yeah. That's the way they did it this year? I don't know. well More will be revealed.

00:45:44.06
Bill
Right.

00:45:46.63
Mike
Hehehe.

00:45:47.39
Bill
Yeah. Okay, yeah, you're right, though.

00:45:48.23
Mike
okay

00:45:48.43
Bill
Imagine that, right?

00:45:48.81
Mike
Hehehehehehehehehehe.

00:45:51.02
Bill
But yeah, Friday was, and I know I mentioned last last week on my schedule it was going to be a little weird, and it actually turned out, it was everything everything lined up exactly like I like i thought it would.

00:45:51.46
Mike
Okay.

00:45:55.64
Mike
Mm-hmm

00:46:01.42
Bill
um you know so On Thursday, because we recorded last last Thursday, is when I got done at four, so that was the whole thing.

00:46:06.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:08.56
Bill
Um, Worked three hours on Friday.

00:46:11.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:46:11.42
Bill
So I got done at 11, and i had a yeah I was supposed to have a phone appointment with a realtor and here in Austin on at like 11 o 'clock.

00:46:16.72
Mike
Right.

00:46:18.80
Bill
Didn't get a hold of her. Tried her at 11, 1130. I'm like, I just got to start packing shit up. So I'm breaking my all my work stuff down, packing all that stuff up.

00:46:24.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:25.67
Bill
And she called me at like, I don't know, 25 after 11. She's like, I'm so far behind.

00:46:30.80
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:46:30.85
Bill
She's like, I'm actually trying to get into my car. She goes, I have an hour drive. and she goes i will call you it within the hour but i said i'll call you she called me from my car So um got to talk to her.

00:46:39.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:41.00
Bill
Nice conversation. I actually got, I just got a lead from her too today. So um hold on. I'll tell you. Obviously, I'll tell you and Kathy when you guys are here, there's no sense in...

00:46:47.95
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:46:50.55
Bill
plug clogging up these airways with that.

00:46:52.17
Mike
yeah

00:46:52.22
Bill
but um But so all said and done, you know I ate lunch, I got everything all packed up, I get everything settled, and literally like right on cue, I'm like, if i get if I go to bed, if I lay down at 3,

00:47:04.24
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:47:04.56
Bill
I can sleep until 10. I mean, that's a full night's sleep for me, you know.

00:47:06.19
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:47:08.68
Bill
More so, because usually I'm lucky to get six and a half, seven hours.

00:47:11.58
Mike
Uh huh.

00:47:12.38
Bill
But I'm like, i'm like fuck, I i'm didn't want to wait until 10 o 'clock to take all my my heart medications.

00:47:18.91
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:47:19.46
Bill
You know, because, I mean, I'm very – Never missed. i said I set alarms on my phone or reminders on my phone. every Even though I'm probably not going to forget, I don't want to take the chance, you know.

00:47:28.19
Mike
Right.

00:47:28.98
Bill
So... um That I usually take at 7 .30 in the morning and night, every obviously every 12 hours. So i'm like I'm like, that's fine.

00:47:35.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:47:35.51
Bill
I'm going to go to bed at 3. I set an alarm for 7 .30. I'm like, it'll be fine. I'll wake up. i'll Take my pills. I'll go back to sleep. I'd never have a problem going back to sleep. Well, I did.

00:47:44.86
Mike
e

00:47:46.00
Bill
um I kind of dozed off and on for like another hour until about 8 .30.

00:47:49.68
Mike
h

00:47:51.02
Bill
And then then I got up. And I'm like, well, fuck it. I mean, one one way or the other, I'm just going to, whenever I'm ready to leave, I'm just going to fucking leave. So I'm like, what I'll do.

00:47:57.47
Mike
right

00:47:58.58
Bill
I had planned it to begin with to get down here, literally give myself an enough time so I could be here like at check-in at 3. And I'm like, I'm probably but like an hour and a half basically ahead of my schedule in my head.

00:48:09.78
Bill
I'll go grocery shopping when I get here, which is what I ended up doing.

00:48:12.69
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:48:13.14
Bill
So everything all worked out, but. Then, um you know, I'm like, i'm like well, I... Went down and I hit my coffee. i so I'm making coffee. This is like I'm getting up in the morning. And you and I talked about this, but you know usually it's after the day goes into the next day, right?

00:48:21.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:26.56
Bill
It's like I don't care if it's 1 o 'clock in the morning or 2 o 'clock in the morning. I do my readings because I'm out starting my day.

00:48:31.54
Mike
right

00:48:31.89
Bill
Well, it's still the same day.

00:48:33.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:48:34.04
Bill
I'm like. But I got to read something. So i've done so i've done I did something I've never done before. I sat down and I reread my readings from... Friday.

00:48:44.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:45.34
Bill
Because I... I was laughing at myself when I did it, but I'm like, I can't i can't not do this. i need to do i'm i'm in I'm in this routine.

00:48:51.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:53.63
Bill
i so I went to sleep for a little bit.

00:48:55.42
Mike
h

00:48:55.68
Bill
still the same fucking day you know it's it's nine o 'clock at night the same goddamn day it was you know But I'm like, I sat down and I re-read my readings.

00:48:57.32
Mike
Right? Mm hmm. Right.

00:49:04.81
Mike
Cool.

00:49:05.60
Bill
Took a shower, got everything done, got out of there at like 11 o 'clock rather than I figured I'd get out of there, you know, like once. So, I mean, I'm like two hours ahead of time. And, I mean, it.

00:49:14.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:15.05
Bill
It was fine. You know, I i got down here. There was like. maybe two hours away from here so i mean you got to figure you know ah I don't know what at that point, 13 hours or 12, 13 hours into my trip.

00:49:27.10
Bill
um

00:49:26.87
Mike
who

00:49:28.10
Bill
probably a good 12 hours into my trip, I start getting a little tired, but just enough where I'm like, um you know, kind of this little little...

00:49:31.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:49:33.86
Bill
nod for a minute like me so i pulled in grabbed coffee went to the bathroom fine And I i was a fucking wreck by that night. I was tired. You know, it's just, it was this.

00:49:40.67
Mike
Yeah, I'm sure

00:49:42.42
Bill
Weird day and then Sunday. i i'm like i went to bed I went to bed at like 9 o 'clock on... Friday night. No, Saturday night.

00:49:49.81
Mike
m

00:49:50.42
Bill
I'm sorry.

00:49:51.22
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:49:51.67
Bill
And then I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go on a hiking trail. Like, I don't care if it's hot out. I'm going to, I found a trail to go to and I'm like one way or the other. I'll get out early again. Same thing. I got there at like 1030 or something like that, whatever time it was. And, you know, when I got there, it was like 88 degrees.

00:50:09.07
Mike
Right.

00:50:09.82
Bill
And, you know, it's a little bit as i I'm in the sun, I'm out of the sun, I'm doing whatever I brought. i Wore my backpack. I threw two bottles of water in there. So a lot of times I'll only carry one. Won't even drink the whole thing. But I drank both bottles of water.

00:50:20.79
Bill
Had one more in the car for when I got back.

00:50:21.28
Mike
aha

00:50:22.90
Bill
And it was like, I mean, total about three. It was almost three and a half miles that I did.

00:50:27.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:29.09
Bill
And by the time I got done, it was like 95 degrees or 94, whatever it was.

00:50:32.16
Mike
mm

00:50:33.80
Bill
And I took pictures of that, of my temperature thing.

00:50:37.39
Mike
if you

00:50:37.33
Bill
Humidity, that that is the one thing. And I know I mentioned that in the text messages. Humidity is... I don't even know what it is right now. it's It's less than, you know, obviously than it is normally around either one of us, wherever we are.

00:50:47.18
Mike
Mhm.

00:50:48.24
Bill
um You know, but I mean, by by the time I got done, like the last half hour or last half mile of the hike.

00:50:48.10
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:50:53.89
Bill
um my My fucking legs were getting a little wobbly.

00:50:53.89
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:50:57.65
Bill
um Okay, so humidity right right now as we speak, it's 94 degrees out still, and it's 38 % humidity.

00:51:04.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:04.84
Bill
Okay.

00:51:05.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:05.59
Bill
So the 94 is the ninety four to temperature feels like 96. So, you know, the difference in there were around us.

00:51:09.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:51:11.18
Bill
I mean, it'd be fucking 80 or 90 percent humidity.

00:51:13.95
Mike
Right.

00:51:13.80
Bill
It it feel like 102 right now, you know.

00:51:16.11
Mike
Yep.

00:51:17.32
Bill
um So, again, that does make a little bit of a difference, but it's still like beating out in the fucking oven, no doubt.

00:51:19.84
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:51:22.52
Bill
But it was kind of a cool trail, and I put the note on there like in my in my little write-up on. instagram it was these trees it was almost like this creepy forest look you know

00:51:32.07
Mike
o

00:51:32.93
Bill
And then also like this like natural green vegetation, irregular trees, and then seeing a cactus here and there. It was just a weird. just a weird landscape you know cool you know something different than i than i've ever been on it reminded me a little bit of the

00:51:42.51
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:51:48.38
Bill
um like palo alto where i went a little bit of that and also a little bit of the trails i went on when i was in phoenix a little bit like that um but very very cool i had a nice time it was probably one of the the coolest trails that i've been on in a while but yeah by the time i got back to my car

00:51:51.17
Mike
Right?

00:51:55.53
Mike
Hmm. Mm hmm.

00:52:05.60
Bill
I was it just a little bit late headed and I'm like, fuck man, you know, but. ah i i did the things i should have and i didn't die so i mean i was that was all good it was all good But it was ah it was nice.

00:52:15.03
Mike
Well, there you go.

00:52:18.36
Bill
And again, the trip down here, it was it was fucking fine. You know, it was absolutely fine.

00:52:21.16
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:52:22.92
Bill
You know, so in this, this Airbnb is nice. The air conditioning works fine.

00:52:26.57
Mike
Good.

00:52:26.85
Bill
You know, and you know, there nothing really out of the ordinary.

00:52:28.20
Mike
business

00:52:30.41
Bill
It smelled a little bit like kind of a little bit of a dog smell when I, when I get in here and I looked and they do allow pets and I'm sure that, you know, just the dog hair type of thing, but not bad.

00:52:34.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Hmm.

00:52:37.94
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

00:52:39.36
Bill
I mean, I don't smell it anymore. um You know, either either the the house is taken on my set now or the last.

00:52:41.20
Mike
Meh.

00:52:44.73
Mike
ah Well, I'll get down there stinking up real good.

00:52:49.33
Bill
Right. But, I mean, they you know, it's again, it's three bedrooms. It's plenty of space. It's all functional. It's it's nice. You know, it's a nice little nice little neighborhood.

00:52:56.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:57.78
Bill
And, yeah.

00:52:58.12
Mike
Yeah. I looked at the pictures. Looks nice. Looking forward to it.

00:53:00.55
Bill
Yeah, everything everything Everything is all good. It's all it's all good and comfortable. so um

00:53:05.52
Mike
Cool.

00:53:07.15
Bill
But, um yeah, there was one other. Oh, I you know what I was going to. I keep forgetting to bring this up. So we got, and I mentioned it last week and I forgot to i forgot to bring it up. So we got an email from.

00:53:19.47
Bill
Zencaster.

00:53:20.96
Mike
o

00:53:21.86
Bill
um a week or so ago. And the title of the email, and I'm just pulling up right now, and i i I didn't want to say yes or no before I got your opinion on it, but I thought this was kind of interesting.

00:53:31.65
Mike
ah

00:53:33.20
Bill
And and and for anyone who doesn't and who doesn't know, we've talked about it enough, but Zencastr is the it's the recording studio that we use, that we're talking into right now.

00:53:39.44
Mike
mm-hmm

00:53:41.05
Bill
That's Zencastr. So.

00:53:42.16
Mike
That's right.

00:53:43.79
Bill
the title of the or The subject of the email is help us build... Better. conversational speech research.

00:53:49.21
Mike
a

00:53:50.51
Bill
So it says, hi there. We hope you're doing well. we love We'd love to feature your podcast in a research project led by Alex and Chris from Zencastr's machine learning research team.

00:54:01.23
Bill
or reaching out to ask for your permission. We truly admire your content.

00:54:03.38
Mike
Uh huh.

00:54:04.66
Bill
and Your podcast stood out as an

00:54:05.87
Mike
So they've never listened.

00:54:10.76
Bill
Yeah, well, it's here i I was thinking the same thing, but let's let's just go back.

00:54:14.20
Mike
It's AI. Go ahead. Go ahead

00:54:15.62
Bill
um' i'm thinking I'm thinking the same thing. you know but

00:54:17.62
Mike
Yeah, it's ah it's a form letter.

00:54:19.51
Bill
Right. But I mean, they they have to know that it's the type of it's they realize that the type of podcast we have, it's long form and it's conversational that much, that much they can figure out, I think.

00:54:27.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:54:30.00
Bill
But it says, we truly admire your content. and Your podcast stood out as an excellent fit for the project. The natural conversations between you, between your hosts and guests are exactly the kind of authentic interactions that are especially valuable for conversational speech research.

00:54:44.63
Bill
So these are things granted.

00:54:44.57
Mike
mm-hmm

00:54:45.88
Bill
They can, AI can listen or, you know, run through a transcript and pick that out.

00:54:50.10
Mike
Right.

00:54:50.98
Bill
You know, the the fact of what we're doing.

00:54:51.12
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:54:52.23
Bill
Now, whether they listen to all the words. To your point, yeah. I get it

00:54:56.06
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:54:57.28
Bill
But it says, we're we're building a public data database or data set to help researchers develop speech models that better understand the natural flow of conversation, including...

00:55:05.97
Mike
We're teaching AI how to speak like human beings.

00:55:06.92
Bill
hey Right. It says including overlapping speech. laughter interruptions and pauses which i thought that was interesting because again it can listen for that i know for a fact ai can can understand all that stuff you know and these are things the way i i think we do quite well just naturally blah blah blah but

00:55:21.13
Mike
Uh... Huh?

00:55:26.41
Mike
Right.

00:55:27.09
Bill
Because most public data sets are based on scripted or single speaker recordings, podcasts like yours capture the kind of conversations often missing from existing research data sets. It'll be published at, data set will be published under. uh more about blah blah blah But it said it says, if you choose to participate, here's what they would include.

00:55:46.33
Bill
So here's where we've got to make a decision. Only your published episodes along with transcripts generated by multiple speech recognition engines.

00:55:48.45
Mike
aha

00:55:53.65
Mike
Uh huh.

00:55:54.40
Bill
Speaker separated audio, which is, that's going to come from here. Audio tracks, for read speaker, blah, blah, blah. And that basic episode information. Participation is optional. Your decision won't affect your Zencaster account, whatever.

00:56:06.01
Bill
So if you'd like to participate, let us know.

00:56:06.33
Mike
huh

00:56:07.73
Bill
so um I mean, part of it, um I was kind of like, well, that's kind of cool. But then I thought the same thing. I'm like, you said you kind of said the right the right thing to, you know, teaching AI how it is.

00:56:14.28
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:56:16.74
Bill
But I mean.

00:56:17.20
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:56:18.17
Bill
I don't know. I mean, it's ah and we don't have to decide right this minute, but... um you know i i don't I don't know. i'm completely at When I read it the first time, I didn't have an opinion one way or the other. It's like i I'm like, eh, but...

00:56:30.02
Bill
Yeah. And then, yeah.

00:56:31.41
Mike
Ugh.

00:56:31.53
Bill
but Yeah. So I don't, I don't.

00:56:32.67
Mike
who

00:56:33.41
Bill
That's why i you know sometimes you're far more level-headed than I am.

00:56:34.96
Mike
well You know, maybe down, you know, a couple years down the road, the AI fucking robot overlords will look kindly on us when because we help them.

00:56:46.26
Bill
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, and these motherfuckers said yes.

00:56:48.23
Mike
They'll kill us quickly.

00:56:49.93
Bill
no or they'll They'll keep us alive to use us. talk Teach us how to talk, bitches.

00:56:53.81
Mike
Mm-mm. Right. The Matrix, so yeah you're right. Use us for batteries.

00:57:00.06
Bill
Right. Right.

00:57:00.77
Mike
Mm-hmm yeah

00:57:02.15
Bill
So. one One way or the other, we don't have to decide now, but I just saw i thought it was interesting if nothing else. but I mean, I agree 100%. I mean, there's no doubt. I mean, obviously, AI is doing all this stuff these days.

00:57:12.49
Mike
ah hu

00:57:13.25
Bill
um You know, but oh, and speaking of that, just a quick side note, the realtor that I that I was put in touch with her or actually why I found this one here in Austin, I found myself. um

00:57:22.26
Mike
hu

00:57:23.45
Bill
She's very cool. She doesn't necessarily deal exactly in in what we're trying to do, but she's familiar with it.

00:57:27.45
Mike
Right?

00:57:28.54
Bill
I mean, she she buys and sells, I mean, I'm sorry, sells.

00:57:29.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:57:32.36
Bill
short-term rentals she doesn't get into the or short-term um airbnb properties

00:57:37.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:57:37.64
Bill
you know, for that purpose. She doesn't get into the rental part of it, but she's familiar with it.

00:57:40.54
Mike
Right.

00:57:41.39
Bill
But she has this whole.

00:57:41.31
Mike
Mm hmm. huh

00:57:43.42
Bill
spreadsheet thing that she gave me um she gave me this link where um i can it's all for the the entire

00:57:45.24
Mike
Huh?

00:57:49.87
Bill
area of Austin and surrounding areas out to a certain point. I think within... possibly 30 to 45 minutes outside of Austin.

00:57:57.16
Mike
Okay.

00:57:57.31
Bill
um And it's all the jurisdictions and saying whether it's permit or not or. you know, um single use or multi-use.

00:58:03.12
Mike
Great.

00:58:04.58
Bill
So she gave me this so I can look up any, any property by address. And then she gave me this other thing to these, these two companion pieces.

00:58:08.08
Mike
Cool?

00:58:11.07
Bill
And she's like, I'll send you that. You can use that. I'm like. Fucking really?

00:58:14.47
Mike
Eh?

00:58:14.99
Bill
So in the night. i ran that through ai and then ai built this whole model how they can now search for properties for us so with her information i threw it up in the ai i'm like does this help ai's like yeah that fuck helps oh Oh, you gave it to me now.

00:58:26.49
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:58:28.22
Bill
It's like, I've got information now.

00:58:28.60
Mike
um

00:58:29.85
Bill
And it gave me like... 100 pages of whatever, not really, but. But again, AI, yeah. but my My friend in a lot of cases these days, so. but um So, yeah, when we're there, let me let me know all your thoughts on the whole Zencaster thing, and well we'll figure it out.

00:58:38.73
Mike
Uh huh.

00:58:44.40
Bill
so um All right, so I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about recovery anniversaries, which clearly you and I talk about.

00:58:52.55
Mike
hu Mm-hmm.

00:58:54.15
Bill
We've talked about this subject on a semi-regular basis, but the one of the individuals, actually both of them, I'll consider both of them in long-term recovery, but the one individual that just had an anniversary come up had mentioned that they they completely forgot about their anniversary until somebody had called them.

00:59:12.95
Bill
you know, and wish them a happy anniversary.

00:59:13.12
Mike
o Okay.

00:59:15.11
Bill
so the The first thing, well, I'll tell you how I felt to begin with, but the the thing of it is, I guess, well. Go ahead. but What are your thoughts on that, that somebody forgot about their anniversary? Do you have any opinions whatsoever?

00:59:23.89
Mike
ah Um. I mean, I, you know, I kind of understand it. You're living your life and yeah, you know, long-term and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:59:33.50
Bill
Right.

00:59:35.82
Mike
But um yeah, you know, I clearly our anniversaries are important to us. um Yeah.

00:59:41.23
Bill
Right.

00:59:41.92
Mike
You know, time matters, all that good stuff. And yeah, I don't know. I don't think. ah Yeah, I don't think I could forget. my sober date.

00:59:53.88
Bill
Right.

00:59:53.88
Mike
you know yeah let it it would like pass and i'd be oh shit that was last tuesday you know i i don't i don't think that would happen

00:59:59.52
Bill
Right, right. Right.

01:00:02.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:03.28
Bill
Yeah, and you know the...

01:00:02.97
Mike
So. I don't know

01:00:04.74
Bill
the The thing of it is that we've we've talked about this before. and there i mean i I... I accept it, but I don't understand it. But the fact that I don't understand how somebody could let an anniversary slide by like that or you don't.

01:00:11.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:00:15.89
Mike
Right.

01:00:16.26
Bill
I suppose it's irrelevant. Well, not even I suppose. It is. It's irrelevant to their recovery. If they're in long-term recovery and doing this and that, I mean, it's irrelevant.

01:00:19.72
Mike
Oh sure. Mm hmm.

01:00:21.98
Bill
but but you know to the The thing with it is we we know for a fact there's people out there that you know don't don't count days, you have a rough idea when their anniversary was. and That always made me nervous.

01:00:32.86
Bill
and when he I'm listening to this podcast, and he said that.

01:00:33.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:00:38.05
Bill
And it immediately, I got this like knot in my stomach. I felt, I mean, I physically had this.

01:00:40.56
Mike
Hmm.

01:00:42.14
Bill
that I'm like, oh, fuck. I'm like, whew. that it made me nervous, you know.

01:00:46.65
Mike
Hmm.

01:00:47.39
Bill
Because i don't I remember hearing these words when we when we first got sober at the Keating Center. you know if you If you don't remember... you know, remember your sobriety date or your sober date, you're bound to repeat it.

01:00:59.59
Mike
Right.

01:00:59.88
Bill
And I'm like, well, I don't want to do that. You know?

01:01:01.50
Mike
Mhm.

01:01:01.98
Bill
And so I'm writing in my book, I'm keeping it in my head, and all these different stuff.

01:01:04.68
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:04.82
Bill
I'm like, I, I know my sobriety date, you know?

01:01:07.05
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:07.80
Bill
and um But that's that's what we were taught. Just because we were taught that doesn't make it. you know, that the end-all be-all for everyone.

01:01:12.92
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Exactly. Yeah, but, you know, I mean... For me, remembering my sobriety date, it's just as important to remember. two days before my sobriety date you know how am i going to remember that if i don't remember the day that i went yep i can't do this anymore something's got to give you know i'm gonna do something different i don't know what the it is but i'm gonna do something different Yeah, it's important.

01:01:25.51
Bill
Right.

01:01:39.80
Mike
to me.

01:01:40.02
Bill
Right.

01:01:40.58
Mike
yeah so and again just as important as two days before it when i was whatever, you know, it's just another drunken day. um But yeah.

01:01:51.63
Mike
Just... No, I don't understand it. I'm glad I don't understand it.

01:01:56.18
Bill
Yeah. Yeah, and it's and again, it's ah be this this individual and in both of them, um you know the other one said you know the same thing. He usually remembers you know his anniversary because it's important to people around him type of thing.

01:02:08.96
Mike
Hmm.

01:02:09.29
Bill
So he's got that kind of mindset. you know And I've heard other people say that you know they they don't really care about their anniversary but care about others because you know ah somebody else wants to celebrate theirs.

01:02:11.06
Mike
Wow.

01:02:16.78
Mike
Mhm. Sure.

01:02:19.67
Bill
All these things make make sense to me. It's just that, um like you said, you know i don't I don't understand it. And for me, I'm glad i'm glad I don't. And, I mean, i'm I'm the guy that looks.

01:02:26.33
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:27.79
Bill
I look at my. my sobriety counter every day.

01:02:28.68
Mike
Right I know.

01:02:30.67
Bill
I mean... Every fucking day.

01:02:32.22
Mike
I know.

01:02:33.09
Bill
And it's just it's it's important to me, and I and i do it i don't do it out of... there there's I've said it before, I do it for two reasons, to to see how far I got, to see how much I have to lose.

01:02:42.83
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:43.06
Bill
you know And that's that's the exact reason. To begin with, i I don't remember why I started doing it.

01:02:45.68
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:48.21
Bill
I don't know if that was the reason to begin with, but that's the reason today.

01:02:48.40
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:51.52
Bill
um I'm proud of it, but I also want to know what I have to lose.

01:02:51.33
Mike
Right.

01:02:54.35
Mike
Yep.

01:02:53.79
Bill
You know? And, you know, it's just, it's it's my deal. It's part of my thing. And it's that, it's not I don't know if it's helping me.

01:02:58.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:01.52
Mike
Well...

01:03:03.03
Bill
it's not hurting me

01:03:02.89
Mike
Exactly.

01:03:05.34
Bill
You know, but it just kind of its just kind of is is what it is. but um Okay, and I thought you were kind of i thought you were kind of the the same thing anyhow.

01:03:09.38
Mike
Mmm.

01:03:13.83
Bill
but um Oh, I got to tell you, this is kind of funny. So do you ever get. Um, like random text messages for political texts or anything like or political

01:03:22.81
Mike
occasionally. Yeah.

01:03:23.77
Bill
Yeah. And it's just, they they bother the fuck out of me. And every once in a while, it's like.

01:03:26.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:03:28.00
Bill
I'll get things like, hello, and it's like. John? do a property on, on this particular place.

01:03:31.05
Mike
Yeah, yeah, right.

01:03:33.54
Bill
Do you want to sell your property? I'm like wrong fucking number, dickhead, you know, that sort of thing.

01:03:35.29
Mike
Uh huh. Mm hmm.

01:03:37.64
Bill
And anytime I get these. these texts, especially the political ones, I just Either it's it's fuck you.

01:03:42.36
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:03:44.96
Bill
Fuck off.

01:03:45.08
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep, yep, me too.

01:03:46.06
Bill
Go fuck yourself. Do you really?

01:03:47.23
Mike
Hey! Yep.

01:03:50.02
Bill
every Every fucking time.

01:03:50.85
Mike
Fuck you. Send. Block.

01:03:53.63
Bill
Yeah, I just I usually wait because sometimes it'll come back and like you have unsubscribed

01:03:58.28
Mike
Yeah, right. right

01:04:00.09
Bill
You know, you know they're just they're just random. They're just fucking fucking bots and all those things.

01:04:02.83
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:04:04.57
Bill
but So here's a funny thing, and this was a week or so ago. um And it was before we actually we recorded the last time. but um So I get this political text and it's promoting. So here here's the thing.

01:04:15.17
Bill
this This one kind of irritated me because it was kind of almost like taking advantage of people. At least this is the way I looked at it.

01:04:19.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:04:21.78
Bill
So two things. It's a 219 area code, which is Indiana.

01:04:25.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:04:25.28
Bill
I don't understand how they got my phone number. You know, how somebody local, because it was talking about this local thing, which I'll get to you in a second. So local number talking about a local thing for for me, which is just odd.

01:04:31.90
Mike
Alright.

01:04:35.66
Bill
But again. It's technology. What is it? What do I care?

01:04:38.55
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:04:38.95
Bill
You know, but... So it says basically it's like ah um we are having we're planning a get-together specifically reaching out to people that were affected by the storm damage or but affected by the storm and had the damage and have been without power and blah, blah, blah in Valparaiso and the surrounding area.

01:04:50.72
Mike
uh-huh

01:04:56.71
Bill
Democrats for blah, blah, blah, organizing the event and you know whatever the case is. So whether it was Democrats, Republicans, I don't give a fuck. I hate them all. I don't i don't like either i don't like either one of them.

01:05:06.21
Mike
Right.

01:05:07.86
Bill
It had nothing to do. This response to this text would have been if it would have been the Independent, the Green Party, the Blue Party, the Purple, or the Republicans or the Democrats. It didn't matter. But um i'm like I'm like, really?

01:05:19.02
Bill
I'm like, okay, so. you were trying to take advantage of people that just went you know weeks without power

01:05:23.77
Mike
ahha

01:05:24.28
Bill
You know, whatever they went through, you're trying to get it together. like and you're literally you're you're trying to help them out oh we'll get together and we'll maybe have water for you whatever the case is but Vote for us is kind of what it is.

01:05:35.69
Bill
I'm like, like you you fucking whores.

01:05:36.37
Mike
yeah

01:05:37.97
Bill
So that's what I, that's what I. Texted back, I said, fuck you.

01:05:40.99
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:41.86
Bill
I texted back, fuck you, whore. Okay. And um I just didn't think anything. But i kept it I kept the text message. I didn't block it right away.

01:05:49.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:51.34
Bill
And then I get it. I get a text message back. Okay.

01:05:56.46
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:57.06
Bill
It says, yikes. ha And i'm like I'm like, oh, fuck, that's a real person?

01:06:05.60
Mike
Yes.

01:06:07.03
Bill
And um I can't stop laughing. I can't stop fucking laughing because then I look at my text and it's... Fuck you, whore.

01:06:14.16
Mike
Hehehehe.

01:06:14.73
Bill
And I'm like, is this a chick too? Because it seemed like a soft, kind of a softer voice.

01:06:16.86
Mike
Mmm. Uh-huh

01:06:18.40
Bill
You know, this yikes, or whatever. I'm like, like. he so fucking random chick out there doing her goddamn job and she gets a oh fuck you whore text and uh

01:06:24.79
Mike
Yes, yes, yes.

01:06:29.25
Bill
And i said I said, you know what? I texted back. I'm like, I don't give i said i i don't give a fuck how you got my phone number. But I said... Fucking. Lose it. you know And that was it.

01:06:38.25
Mike
Yeah. yeahp

01:06:39.05
Bill
Then I deleted i deleted the the text. I didn't block it. I just deleted the text.

01:06:43.26
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:43.73
Bill
And then half hour later. his text comes back from the same number it's like I am so sorry if I caused you any confusion. We get these phone numbers from lists, blah, blah, blah. You know, the typical thing.

01:06:54.64
Bill
And I just, I didn't respond to it.

01:06:54.87
Mike
oh

01:06:56.41
Bill
but It was the best fucking response I've ever gotten. Well, I've never gotten a a real... response from anyone before but when i saw yikes i'm like like this is

01:07:02.33
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:07:06.59
Mike
He he he he he he.

01:07:08.14
Bill
So it's so fucking wonderful. I just couldn't stop laughing. But I mean, and I've been I've done phone work. I've been I've been I've been.

01:07:15.12
Mike
ah

01:07:16.25
Bill
out of the there there's the three things well four things that are hated most in the in the world um you know when getting phone calls from or anything like or just in general people hate the dentist attorneys telemarketers and bill collectors you know i've been two out of those three and i've never been a dentist and i've never been an attorney um you know so i've been a telemarketer and a you know fuck it bill collector so i mean i i've heard it all i've been called everything in the fucking book and it makes me laugh every goddamn time i don't care i just i i can't every once in a while people get really fucking creative and it's hard for me not to laugh at somebody on the phone

01:07:27.86
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:07:30.33
Mike
Right.

01:07:35.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:38.34
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:07:42.51
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:07:46.32
Mike
Yeah. Oh, absolutely

01:07:49.97
Bill
But um it just is fucking funny. so All right. Anyhow. and Oh, yeah, I know what I want to do. Okay, so... There was something in God Grant Me, and I wrote this down as from August 23rd.

01:08:04.21
Bill
Give me one second.

01:08:05.29
Mike
All right.

01:08:07.45
Bill
We're going to get like a second, na sort of a second reading. I'm going to read one paragraph because I wanted to ask you about it and I don't remember exactly why.

01:08:10.40
Mike
Okay.

01:08:15.21
Mike
Hmm.

01:08:15.40
Bill
um Okay, so...

01:08:16.90
Mike
oh shit yeah within the last couple days i mean um yeah and god grant me the last few days i think uh I have dog-eared. I've got dog-eared in my book, I think.

01:08:28.75
Mike
Beep beep. three or four out of the last five days, something like that.

01:08:32.62
Bill
Oh, and God grant me.

01:08:32.64
Mike
so Yeah. Yeah.

01:08:34.21
Bill
Oh, okay. Yeah.

01:08:34.78
Mike
that i used to do readings you know and group and stuff with them so yeah i still haven't folded over even though you know i don't use them anymore Yep.

01:08:41.85
Bill
Well, you never know you never know.

01:08:42.86
Mike
Yeah

01:08:42.86
Bill
If we keep doing this thing for a while, you might get bored. As Bill sees it, we could go back to...

01:08:45.60
Mike
Right.

01:08:47.37
Bill
Back to that, the tried and true as they say, right?

01:08:49.21
Mike
Well, yeah, I mean, but yeah, clearly I've used all those on the podcast. So but go ahead.

01:08:53.20
Bill
Right. Right. Um... says really I just want to make sure I have the... Is this the right? I need to make sure this this is the right one.

01:09:03.74
Mike
o all Alright.

01:09:06.36
Bill
It was talking about, am I a friend to myself?

01:09:06.77
Mike
Mm hmm. Hmm.

01:09:09.48
Bill
um

01:09:12.81
Bill
Okay, so it says, some it was talking about the program teaches us to see things more clearly. We learn to look at who we really are. At first, we're scared to see ourselves, but it turns out okay. We have others to remind us that we're okay, even though we're not perfect. We also begin to see others more clearly. We see the good in people that we don't like, and we see faults in...

01:09:34.34
Bill
Hang on one second here.

01:09:35.77
Mike
Hey.

01:09:36.76
Bill
Oh, you know what? That's why it didn't look right. I was in Keep It Simple. They're both in the same...

01:09:41.01
Mike
Mmm.

01:09:41.88
Bill
They're both in the same app. so I'm sorry about that. Hang on one second here.

01:09:44.82
Mike
All right.

01:09:45.93
Bill
That was a decent enough reading, too. but

01:09:47.54
Mike
Sure.

01:09:49.07
Bill
what What fucking day is it today? Today's the 25th. Jesus Christ. If you're a new listener.

01:09:56.26
Mike
Right. This is pretty much what you can expect.

01:09:59.31
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Let me go back to the God grant me one. Now this will make sense. Okay. God grant me August 23rd. Here we go. So let's start with the basics. A friend is for is for us, not against us.

01:10:11.22
Bill
That means a friend won't do anything to harm us if he or she can possibly help it.

01:10:10.93
Mike
the

01:10:15.65
Bill
A friend is there for us when we need understanding, tells us the truth, and does the things he or she promises to do. A friend likes to be around us, thinks we are good thinks we are a good person, and believes we are honest.

01:10:28.50
Bill
A friend shares what is going on in his or her life and cares about what is going on in ours. A friend does things to help us feel happy. A friend forgives us when we ask for forgiveness.

01:10:40.60
Bill
So the thing is, this whole reading wraps up with am i ah Am I a good friend to myself?

01:10:46.88
Mike
Mmm.

01:10:46.95
Bill
Okay.

01:10:47.22
Mike
mm-hmm

01:10:47.93
Bill
So that was the, and I don't. Again, I don't know if that's ah kind of dipping into the touchy-feely thing that we don't necessarily always get into.

01:10:55.08
Mike
Mm hmm. Verging on it, yes.

01:10:58.28
Bill
But then I thought about it. i'm like I'm like, okay, so do we, I looked at it more more or less as, okay, are we practicing what we' we're preaching?

01:11:05.14
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:11:05.02
Bill
you know, type of thing. So we're saying, you know, be kind to people and do this and that. So are we actually being kind to ourselves? So that was, I mean, what do you what do you think about in general? I mean, everything that's just described in there, being good to us, being there for us, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:11:17.55
Mike
ah hu

01:11:18.68
Bill
Do you agree with that concept that we have to be? or Or should we be or are we being? let's say, friends to ourselves.

01:11:25.01
Mike
Um. Okay, I'm going to turn this around.

01:11:28.37
Bill
Okay.

01:11:28.73
Mike
Um, Am I holding myself to the same standards that I hold everybody else to? Damn. um and At this point, yes. you know, which again, um Yeah.

01:11:42.77
Mike
Right. I hold myself to these standards and and they're the standards that I hold other people to. So, you know. Am I going to? you know, hang around somebody who's a dick. No.

01:11:54.58
Mike
So am I going to be a dick? No.

01:11:57.62
Bill
All right.

01:11:57.55
Mike
Hehehehehehehehehehe

01:11:59.42
Bill
I mean, that's that's ah that's a good point. I like that.

01:12:01.46
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:01.53
Bill
I like that.

01:12:02.10
Mike
Right, yeah, you know, um exactly. it' So... yeah, am I holding myself to the same standards that I hold everyone else to? And um to at this point, yes, absolutely. you know um Again, what kind of people do I want to hang around with?

01:12:19.56
Mike
Well, like i I said earlier in the podcast. I'm stuck with me. I got to hang out with me no matter what.

01:12:24.33
Bill
Right.

01:12:26.52
Mike
um So am i am I being the kind of person that I want to hang out with? And. Yeah, I'm certainly trying. food. Clearly, for a very long time, I wasn't the kind of person I wanted to hang out with. um You know, there was no way in hell I was hanging out with somebody who was a drunken asshole like I was.

01:12:44.96
Bill
Right.

01:12:45.34
Mike
You know, I wouldn't put up with that, even even though my life was in shambles and I was a fucking mess and blah, blah, blah, blah. I wouldn't put up with that kind of behavior from somebody else. um Same thing today, you know, am I Am I behaving in a way that... I don't wanna be around. And no. I'm not. So yes, I am a friend to myself and I'm holding myself to the same standards that I hold everyone else to.

01:13:11.64
Bill
You know, and i that's that is the... Kids, ladies and gentlemen.

01:13:16.64
Mike
still instance

01:13:16.95
Bill
there's ah There's a lot of reasons why there's there's two people doing this doing this podcast, in our opinion. you know ah It would be, I don't know, this would be dumb if either one of us were doing it on our own.

01:13:22.85
Mike
Right.

01:13:28.18
Bill
I just think it it it would probably would never happen. and we wouldn't have Neither one of us, I don't think, would have continued individually.

01:13:30.42
Mike
Uh huh.

01:13:33.15
Mike
No.

01:13:34.02
Bill
Um, But... the The fun part about this is that. both of us think a lot of like we were brought up the same way as far as the sobriety thing all those things that everyone knows about we've talked about endlessly but the cool part is is that they're every once in a while, um and on a semi-regular basis.

01:13:43.29
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:13:52.46
Bill
theres There's a thought that either I have or you have that that comes around the other side.

01:13:55.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:13:56.99
Bill
you know

01:13:57.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:57.80
Bill
And that's what that just was. And I think that's, I think that's a wonderful way to look at that because you're not, I mean, really the it's.

01:14:01.97
Mike
Hmm?

01:14:04.85
Bill
I mean, it explains everything. Do I want to? you know Am I holding myself to the same standard? Which means, yeah, of course, I'm i'm being a friend to myself.

01:14:10.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:11.69
Bill
It was just kind of, a it turned it into a almost a duh type of question in the best way possible.

01:14:11.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:14:15.42
Mike
he Hmm.

01:14:19.30
Bill
Because I think you just, that what a what a great way to explain that. I'm not going to, there's standards I put on, and we've talked about that again a lot of times.

01:14:26.58
Mike
aha

01:14:28.05
Bill
There's standards that I put. as far as people that I will or will not even ah fucking associate with.

01:14:33.54
Mike
Right.

01:14:34.29
Bill
you know in Yeah. why am i goingnna Am I going to tolerate that for myself? No.

01:14:38.65
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:14:39.38
Bill
So again, that's me being a friend of myself.

01:14:40.75
Mike
It is.

01:14:41.11
Bill
so No, it's a fucking great way to put it. I mean, a really, really great way to put it. so

01:14:46.69
Mike
Yeah, I like it. you know, clearly not going to come from the touchy-feely side of it and be a friend to myself. But, you know, yeah, I just, that's not the way I work.

01:14:54.53
Bill
Right.

01:14:58.14
Mike
You know, yes, am am I going to treat myself well?

01:14:58.28
Bill
Right.

01:15:01.09
Mike
Yes. How am I going to do it? By holding myself up to a standard that is fucking better than me. how else am I going to treat myself in a, in a better way in this life?

01:15:07.05
Bill
Right.

01:15:13.94
Mike
is create standards or more than likely glob on to someone else's standards Because my standards clearly are pretty fucking low.

01:15:19.65
Bill
Right.

01:15:23.65
Mike
Um, Yeah, you know, find find a set of principles. and and try to live up to those. And I believe that's what.

01:15:31.10
Bill
Boop.

01:15:32.81
Mike
we're doing

01:15:34.13
Bill
Right. And you know what I mean?

01:15:34.65
Mike
I almost said that's what we've done, but we're literally still working on it.

01:15:38.77
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Good point.

01:15:40.57
Mike
Okay.

01:15:40.65
Bill
But I mean, the the whole point is that whether you're looking at it from, and I understand, you know, that's why I said, I mean, I realized that reading was kind of along the touchy-feely side of things.

01:15:49.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:49.99
Bill
and it's not We don't have to look at it that way. We can look at it from the other from the other angle.

01:15:52.41
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:54.52
Bill
but that's that's you know Yet again, another example of...

01:15:54.33
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:58.94
Bill
ending up literally ending up at the same place with a, not a completely different thought, but just a different looking at a different angle.

01:16:01.17
Mike
Oh yeah. Mmm.

01:16:04.79
Bill
you know, in the same way.

01:16:05.23
Mike
Yeah. Different pathway.

01:16:07.01
Bill
Yeah.

01:16:07.06
Mike
To the same circle in the trees.

01:16:07.17
Bill
that Same exact thing we always talk about with how people practice any 12-step program, how people practice recovery in general, whether they're doing...

01:16:11.51
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:15.01
Mike
Yep.

01:16:18.83
Bill
the AA thing or Smart Recovery or some other thing, you know, that people are doing, one way or the other, we're all we're all ending up at that same that same point or on that same path.

01:16:21.53
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:28.96
Bill
you know the sobriety path we're just doing a little bit different you know and This guy over here is wearing a different color shirt.

01:16:31.85
Mike
Yep.

01:16:34.00
Bill
That's all.

01:16:34.82
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:36.21
Bill
But, no, yeah exactly.

01:16:36.14
Mike
Black. feel yourself

01:16:38.92
Bill
Yeah, speaking of that, I yeah just – I had i'd washed my – My dress shirt the other day. And, um you know, I mean, I've got i got black pants. I got the black sport coat. I got a black shirt. I got a silver.

01:16:50.17
Bill
Silver tie for Saturday. um But yeah, I mean, it's just kind of ah yeah like a silvery gray type of thing.

01:16:51.74
Mike
o

01:16:56.05
Mike
Cool.

01:16:56.71
Bill
You know, so I think, yeah, actually, I think it i I did a little mock-up. You know, I'm trying to figure out what color to get. And, you know, I.

01:17:02.52
Mike
m

01:17:04.55
Bill
because i mean and I wanted to get a different colored tie. I have different colored ones now. but um I saw the again like this little mock-up of how the black would look with the silver tie.

01:17:08.40
Mike
h

01:17:12.25
Bill
I'm like, that looks really sharp. you know

01:17:13.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:14.69
Bill
So, yeah, kind of I kind of like it. I don't know. It's going to be fun. But, yeah, in 100-degree weather, I'm, you know.

01:17:19.34
Mike
Hehehehe.

01:17:19.52
Bill
That's it. But once again, you know, we're all black or whatever. they It's going to be fucking hot. It doesn't matter what the fuck I'm wearing, you know?

01:17:25.23
Mike
Right. Yeah, and and...

01:17:26.28
Bill
Yeah.

01:17:27.24
Mike
Right. It's going to be from the car into the place. And, you know, I'm assuming there's air conditioning in in the car and air conditioning in the bar.

01:17:30.18
Bill
Right?

01:17:35.13
Mike
and Yes, I think we'll be all right.

01:17:37.03
Bill
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, this is, you know, it's kind of like, you know, we're, we're you know, going to northern Minnesota in the in the middle of winter.

01:17:43.71
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:43.54
Bill
I mean, there's... we're going someplace that's going to be heated. And then, you know, in, in Austin, fucking Texas in the middle of, or at the end of August when it's a hundred and some degrees.

01:17:46.77
Mike
Yes.

01:17:52.52
Bill
They're prepared for it. so

01:17:53.70
Mike
Yeah. Well, according to AccuWeather, it's only going to be 100. Maybe 101. Not that I've been looking or anything, but yes.

01:18:02.62
Bill
Yeah. Well, right yeah I know.

01:18:04.22
Mike
Nice even hundred. I think i think Saturday it said 101. So, yeah. We'll be fine.

01:18:10.02
Bill
Well, and i yeah um i took ah I took a walk in the last couple of mornings. ill like the last I walk a little bit in the morning beforehand and just around in here, but then... um The last walk I take before I start to work, i I take a walk outside.

01:18:23.12
Bill
And, you know, I walked out today and I think it was like it was like 79 or 80 degrees. i'm like I'm walking along but like it's kind of comfortable.

01:18:30.09
Mike
Right.

01:18:30.74
Bill
it's fucking 80, 80 degrees. And I'm just like, he fucking idiot. But then again, you know, a couple hours from there when I, when I took a walk, it's, you know, it's a hundred degrees. So, you know, it's a, it's just all, it's all perception.

01:18:39.99
Mike
Sure.

01:18:41.84
Bill
So.

01:18:42.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:43.97
Bill
All right. um This is a God grant me one from... Who knows when? Doesn't matter. But it says the reading the other day, or I'm sorry, whatever this reading, it talked about how do I practice step 11.

01:18:57.32
Bill
um And my question to you was, have we have you ever... thought about um like I don't know, just in in general, like step 11, is that something that you ever think about or or how do you practice it or do you ever do you ever like focus on that?

01:19:11.19
Bill
that's So what the reading was talking about, you're actually asking about how well or how how do we practice the 11th step. Now, just for anyone anyone who doesn't know it, I'm just going to read the, i and I copied this, I Googled it just to get the actual definition, not the definition, I'm sorry, but the actual words.

01:19:17.06
Mike
Uh huh.

01:19:26.01
Bill
So step 11 of Alcoholics Anonymous reads, sought through prayer.

01:19:29.49
Mike
So through mirror meditation, do you improve our conscious contact with God as we understand him?

01:19:34.08
Bill
Yep, praying only for the knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out.

01:19:36.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:37.67
Bill
So, um you know, obviously it focuses on spiritual maintenance.

01:19:37.92
Mike
Right.

01:19:40.54
Bill
That was the other part of it. I got out of Google, letting go of self-control, blah, blah, blah, listening for guidance.

01:19:44.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:45.78
Bill
so And I think we've, I'm sure we've touched on step 11 a little bit and talking, you know, back and forth over the years, but do you ever really pay attention as far as how you, and again, work that step or how you process that step?

01:19:51.05
Mike
o

01:19:58.75
Mike
Well, man, I like light some incense and get down on the floor and cross my legs.

01:20:00.16
Bill
hey Yeah.

01:20:05.24
Mike
No.

01:20:05.71
Bill
Right, right.

01:20:06.01
Mike
I do none of that.

01:20:07.33
Bill
Right?

01:20:07.53
Mike
Um... Do I focus on it? um Bye. I'm... Maybe a little in the beginning trying to... work up a...

01:20:17.85
Mike
kind of a routine or something you know that i was comfortable with um

01:20:21.21
Bill
Right.

01:20:22.21
Mike
But again, you know, ah the readings in the morning, taking that time um is part of me working step 11.

01:20:30.12
Bill
Right.

01:20:31.79
Mike
You know, just. ah Trying to be open to... I have. Fuck, man, the positive shit that I'm supposed to be open to. um No, I don't think about it all that much, really.

01:20:47.95
Bill
Yeah. I was literally waiting for you to say that because as you were kind of as you were kind of stammering around that, I'm like, you're going to get to the point where you're going to be like, no, I don't fucking think about it.

01:20:51.05
Mike
Yeah. I know. mm-hmm

01:20:56.03
Mike
No. No.

01:20:56.53
Bill
God damn it.

01:20:57.68
Mike
I just fucking do it, man.

01:20:59.42
Bill
Hey.

01:21:00.30
Mike
If I think about it, I'm going to think it's fucking stupid and I won't do it.

01:21:03.44
Bill
Right?

01:21:04.31
Mike
And then I'll be fucked again.

01:21:04.38
Bill
Right, I know.

01:21:06.03
Mike
Um...

01:21:07.73
Bill
Right?

01:21:09.02
Mike
Now... um Yes, I just, you know, yeah, do it. You know, and I mean, part of, you know, the 10th step at the end of the day and and whatever. um I mean, yeah you know, ah starting my day. i've i've Probably haven't talked about it on here. in a very long time. um Used to be something I said in group every week when I was starting off. um

01:21:31.66
Mike
You know, for literally decades of my life, my first thought when I opened my eyes, before I opened my eyes, came to sort of became conscious in the morning, whatever. um My first thought was always, where's my next one?

01:21:47.87
Bill
Right.

01:21:48.06
Mike
You know, do I have it? When can I get to it? What do I got to do to get it? Blah, blah, blah. I mean, that was my first fucking conscious thought every fucking day. Um. And now my... first thought and it it is and it has been for a very long time and i had to work at getting myself to do this but to what it is now um my first thought What I wake up is, please.

01:22:10.87
Bill
Right.

01:22:10.99
Mike
You know, again, the end of the 11th step, you know. Give me the strength. I mean, I don't have to say all the words anymore, but you know, give me the strength. to do what I have to do today to stay sober.

01:22:23.04
Mike
um Yeah, you know, my first thought is please. And I know what that means in my head. and then i get up and take a leak and do whatever. But yes, I trained myself. That is my first thought every fucking day.

01:22:37.20
Mike
is please, and I know what it means.

01:22:39.41
Bill
Right.

01:22:40.06
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:40.98
Bill
Yeah, and yeah you know as i and I didn't think about it one same thing when i when I wrote this down or copied this down, but...

01:22:46.83
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:22:48.17
Bill
I know for a fact that I never pay any attention whatsoever as far as you know this is what I'm doing. to to work step 11, but.

01:22:54.49
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:22:57.10
Bill
You and I are the one that talked about that. Neither one of us sit there and meditate necessarily, but our readings are our form of meditation, if nothing else.

01:23:01.22
Mike
Hmm.

01:23:04.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:05.40
Bill
And the only time I ever think about it is when we talk about it on here.

01:23:08.32
Mike
Right?

01:23:08.90
Bill
Because we're putting, you know as you eloquently say, it and I love it, you know taking other people's good thoughts and rolling them around in our heads.

01:23:15.72
Mike
Yep.

01:23:15.87
Bill
That's the same goddamn thing. I mean, we're accepting this this these thoughts and these things into our fucking brains.

01:23:17.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:19.97
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:23:21.75
Bill
I mean, we're doing it through reading, but it doesn't matter. you know I mean, that's that's what it is.

01:23:24.38
Mike
Right.

01:23:26.19
Bill
and

01:23:25.93
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:27.31
Bill
And other than that, like you said, everything everything that we're doing, you know that being a good person, helping other people, doing all these things doing something nice for somebody and not telling anyone about it.

01:23:32.41
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:23:34.91
Mike
Right.

01:23:35.96
Bill
i mean All these things are are these connections that we have with something other, or something greater than ourselves. because

01:23:41.58
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:42.16
Bill
None of that's done by you and I. At least that least not the you and I that are really you and I.

01:23:44.12
Mike
Right, exactly. Right. Exactly. Yeah. um you know Part of it, as you were talking about it, made me think of you know noticing when someone else does something.

01:23:55.75
Mike
Good.

01:23:56.44
Bill
Right.

01:23:56.27
Mike
decent you know and and and appreciating it which clearly we never did before. I never did before. You know, if somebody did something nice, you dumb motherfucker.

01:24:02.78
Bill
Right.

01:24:05.70
Mike
yeah What are you doing that for, asshole? um Yeah, no, noticing it and appreciating it is, is part of that as well for me.

01:24:14.87
Bill
Right.

01:24:15.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:16.47
Bill
Yeah, you know, and ah it just me, this probably has, well, maybe it does have a side. I don't care if it has anything to do with it or not.

01:24:21.59
Mike
a

01:24:21.58
Bill
I just thought about it. I just thought about when you said somebody else. doing something nice.

01:24:25.94
Mike
Mhm.

01:24:26.29
Bill
So, and I know I've i've mentioned this before, but it's been a long, long, long, long time. But um my son, um for everyone who knows now, he's 25 years old now, but I think for...

01:24:34.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:36.55
Bill
shit from the time he was, it might even be from the time he was 14 or 15 years old. It could be easily for the last 10 years or goddamn close to it.

01:24:43.94
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:44.32
Bill
um He started paying for... this family plan on Spotify.

01:24:49.13
Mike
Mm.

01:24:49.52
Bill
And, you know, so.

01:24:50.28
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:50.88
Bill
You don't have to listen to ads. you know.

01:24:52.37
Mike
Right.

01:24:53.45
Bill
And you can get up to whatever you can add up to five or six people or whatever it is. So it's it that I think at the time he started, it was him. It was his brother. So Alec, Dawn, my ex-wife, probably Corey over time and then me.

01:25:02.44
Mike
Right

01:25:06.25
Mike
o

01:25:07.21
Bill
So there was those are the people that are on there. So. I get. you know, full-fledged, full Spotify, no commercials, and I've had that for... fucking ever, you know, and I

01:25:15.18
Mike
Right. Yeah. I remember when you got it. Yeah.

01:25:17.51
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, I'm joking with him like, well, it's about goddamn time he paid for something, you know, when when he first started doing it.

01:25:20.84
Mike
yeah Right.

01:25:22.43
Bill
But I mean, he's been paying for it forever.

01:25:24.66
Mike
Uh huh.

01:25:25.45
Bill
So the other the other day I get this. I go into Spotify. I listen to Spotify every day because I listen to music while I'm... um while I'm working. you know So every goddamn day I'm listening to Spotify on weekends, it's podcasts, whatever.

01:25:33.93
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:25:37.82
Bill
So literally every day of the week I'm in there.

01:25:39.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:25:40.78
Bill
So I open it up and I have this notice up on top.

01:25:40.42
Mike
Right.

01:25:43.21
Bill
It says your your account manager or the payment from your account manager um didn't go through. Maybe it's an expired thing, problem with the card, whatever the case is.

01:25:48.90
Mike
m

01:25:51.81
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:25:52.03
Bill
And, you know, of course, Derek is our account manager.

01:25:54.53
Mike
right

01:25:55.59
Bill
So I'm like, well, that's weird because, again, it's been years. you know, and nothing like that.

01:25:58.19
Mike
Right.

01:26:00.07
Bill
I've never gotten a notification. so i just sent him a text message i said just so you know i got this message i'm like Quite honestly. one way or the other i said i'm probably not a big deal probably but a mistake whatever i felt weird

01:26:11.86
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:12.47
Bill
sending him the message.

01:26:13.65
Mike
Uh huh.

01:26:13.94
Bill
Because I didn't... I wasn't trying to say. Dude, why't why didn't you pay your bill? you know, or why did I get this notification? why why am i being affected by this that wasn't the case but i but i felt i felt like that you know my purpose for telling him was like some something's wrong with your card i'm in it every day i don't know if you are

01:26:24.56
Mike
aha Right. Mm-hmm

01:26:33.21
Mike
Right.

01:26:33.46
Bill
you know So maybe you don't even know.

01:26:35.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:35.27
Bill
you know

01:26:35.84
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:36.66
Bill
So um it's, I don't know, an hour or so later. He's at work. he He tells me all the time.

01:26:39.63
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:40.55
Bill
He goes, he's doing shit. His phone's in his pocket.

01:26:42.41
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:26:42.15
Bill
it usually Every hour, kind of like you. I know the one way or the other, you're gonna you're going to see a text if I text you something because you're driving, you're working.

01:26:45.73
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Right.

01:26:51.26
Bill
And then texts me back and he's like, he's like, oh crap. He goes, he goes, this is what happened. And he said, he goes on, he goes on one of my, he goes on one of my cards.

01:26:59.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:59.55
Bill
He said, I saw these two charges and I didn't know what they were. So he said, I, he goes, I thought I was, be I got hacked or it was fraud.

01:27:05.46
Mike
Mhm.

01:27:05.63
Bill
So he goes, so I canceled the card.

01:27:05.68
Mike
huh

01:27:07.07
Bill
He goes, he goes, this is so dumb.

01:27:07.26
Mike
Mhm.

01:27:08.57
Bill
He goes, it was my Amazon membership and something else.

01:27:11.54
Mike
Right.

01:27:12.14
Bill
It's just whatever it was for whatever reason they didn't recognize the charges.

01:27:14.95
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:15.45
Bill
so he got it he ended up getting a new card you know

01:27:17.53
Mike
Right.

01:27:18.72
Bill
And he goes, he goes, I'll i'll end up, in he apologized, you know.

01:27:21.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:22.79
Bill
And I said, I... i Sent him a text back. I said, first of all, and I said, I don't say it enough and I haven't said it. long enough i said number one you don't have to apologize clearly you know i said i get it i i wasn't texting you because of that and i said i don't say thank you and enough but i i want to say that again because you know everything that i do i use this all the time

01:27:28.98
Mike
um Right.

01:27:40.57
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:41.27
Bill
i've gotten I've gotten your money's worth out of it for literally for fucking ever.

01:27:43.60
Mike
Right.

01:27:45.75
Bill
And I said, I i appreciate it so much. I don't even care how much it is. I appreciate it. now so So thank you, you know, but I mean, it's literally, I felt in years ago, I would have never.

01:27:50.09
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:56.64
Mike
Right.

01:27:56.81
Bill
And it I never whatever would ever want to cross my mind to be just like. Dude, what's what the fuck's wrong with your with your card?

01:28:01.47
Mike
sir

01:28:02.00
Bill
you know And it wasn't that. I really did. i felt I felt weird doing it, but I wanted to make sure that I wanted to let him know that there's a problem, um but not because of me.

01:28:06.39
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:09.60
Mike
Sure.

01:28:11.22
Bill
you know.

01:28:11.52
Mike
Right, right, right.

01:28:12.35
Bill
but that's what it But it felt like that.

01:28:12.41
Mike
right but it felt that way right even yeah i know i think well that's yeah that's good

01:28:18.17
Bill
Yeah.

01:28:18.06
Mike
yeah right even yeah yeah being a little over and whatever yeah you know because it can be construed as old behavior.

01:28:24.14
Bill
Right.

01:28:27.69
Mike
you know hey asshole you you're not paying for my shit anymore what's going on this is a problem

01:28:28.28
Bill
Right. he

01:28:34.62
Bill
Right?

01:28:34.73
Mike
Make it right.

01:28:35.09
Bill
Yeah.

01:28:35.29
Mike
Take care of me. Take care of me. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

01:28:39.33
Bill
Right?

01:28:39.72
Mike
Yeah. And we don't want to come off that way, but yeah, it still feels a little, it's good that it feels icky.

01:28:47.57
Bill
I know. I, I, I 100 % agree.

01:28:48.71
Mike
Hehehehehehehehehehehehe.

01:28:49.67
Bill
It was just, it was weird, you know, and this is the thing. And we talk about these random things all all the time and it's, it's just so fucking weird because, you know, Once again, Mike and I have been doing this, you know, for the same amount of time, 16 plus years, almost 16 and a half years now we're coming up on that.

01:28:55.22
Mike
Hmm.

01:29:00.98
Mike
Right?

01:29:03.93
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:04.35
Bill
And, you know, that's a long goddamn time. That's a lot of days and there's a lot of circumstances.

01:29:08.02
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:29:09.65
Bill
And, you know. all good shit most mostly all good shit you know but life still happens blah blah blah

01:29:13.38
Mike
Yeah, hey yeah, yeah.

01:29:15.40
Bill
You know, but every once in a while, still, you get these things that pop up and, you know, they're kind of like, Jesus Christ, really?

01:29:18.54
Mike
Hehehehe.

01:29:21.81
Bill
And I mean, I don't mean that in a bad way, but I'm just like...

01:29:24.18
Mike
Uh-uh.

01:29:25.39
Bill
I never thought that... A spy? A fucking Spotify note.

01:29:29.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:29.85
Bill
would make me feel that way, you know?

01:29:31.52
Mike
Hmm. Hmm?

01:29:32.52
Bill
And to your point, I'm i'm really glad, in in the best way possible, I'm glad I feel that way.

01:29:34.93
Mike
siness isn Yeah.

01:29:37.05
Bill
I don't i don't want to feel any different than that.

01:29:37.50
Mike
Do we help? Yep. Exactly.

01:29:40.28
Bill
You know?

01:29:41.49
Mike
this this this this this this

01:29:42.34
Bill
All right. I got one more thing. And this was in this I came across randomly, but I do have a purpose with this and the reason I brought it up. So did you hear that? I didn't hear this until the other day. Facebook has a this huge lawsuit against them now again.

01:29:55.41
Mike
of What now?

01:29:57.05
Bill
well And here's the thing here. First of all, as I read through these things, well, I'm not going to say I won't I won't say my opinion right off the bat. But so it said there um the U .S. or I'm sorry, brought on by a coalition of U .S. states against ah meta platforms targeting several specific design and interactive features on Facebook and Instagram allowed to foster.

01:30:16.83
Bill
compulsive and addictive use among young people. Okay.

01:30:19.90
Mike
ahha

01:30:20.90
Bill
So. Infinite scrolling. We talked about that. i Neither one of us knew what infinite scrolling was until a few months ago.

01:30:23.90
Mike
there

01:30:27.27
Bill
But they're there they want...

01:30:27.19
Mike
Right.

01:30:29.38
Bill
The lawsuit is is lobbying for eliminating that. OK, so they can't automatically just keep loading content and after content, which I'm like.

01:30:32.89
Mike
o

01:30:38.13
Bill
Okay. And then um Video autoplay.

01:30:38.88
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:40.68
Bill
They want to end that. you know so videos don't start playing automatically.

01:30:41.95
Mike
huh Well, I've got that turned off, so okay.

01:30:46.45
Bill
I do too. I do too.

01:30:47.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:47.65
Bill
That's that's okay. you know Once again, thanks.

01:30:49.56
Mike
Yeah. now i'm responsible fucking adult okay i don't like this shit i'm gonna make

01:30:52.83
Bill
Hey. Hey, hey. Hang on. Hang on. You're jumping around here.

01:30:57.82
Mike
All right

01:30:59.43
Bill
Visible light counts, hiding or removing social validation metrics that drive compulsive checking and feedback loops. Push notifications, restricting or limiting persistent timed alert and designed or design to pull people back into the app.

01:31:14.53
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:14.89
Bill
disappearing content like story so like a story goes up it stays up for 24 hours to 12 hours it goes away restricting um you know temporary posts that encourage constant monitoring appearance altering filters banning and limiting beauty and face altering blah blah blah

01:31:19.63
Mike
Mhm. Yeah.

01:31:30.41
Bill
And engagement-driven recommendation algorithms, altering the underlying feeds that prioritize high arousal or so or sensational content.

01:31:39.42
Mike
Hey.

01:31:39.64
Bill
um over user well-being. So, okay. Mike, please go back to what you said when I said.

01:31:45.33
Mike
he

01:31:46.31
Bill
When I said video autoplay, you said?

01:31:48.58
Mike
I said, I have that shit turned off because I'm a fucking responsible adult. And if there's something I don't like, I fix it. Or if I couldn't, I just would. id move on with my life.

01:32:00.20
Bill
Aha!

01:32:01.36
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:32:01.47
Bill
So. This is the – and i't I'm not out here to defend Facebook or or Meta or Zuckerberg because I think he's a – I mean, in in a lot of cases, and it at some point, i'll I'll tell you, I listened to him, um Joe Rogan had him on ah ah months and months and months ago, and it was...

01:32:07.42
Mike
Hell no.

01:32:15.03
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:18.52
Bill
too Too long of a conversation. i'll I'll have to listen to it again and then bring it up because I forgot at one point.

01:32:21.21
Mike
well

01:32:22.49
Bill
But I have opinions on the conversation.

01:32:24.55
Mike
Uh huh.

01:32:24.75
Bill
but and not necessarily I'm not out here to defend Zuckerberg or any of this shit, but every one of these things is is exactly what you just said, what my friend Mike just said.

01:32:28.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:34.94
Bill
It has to do with personal responsibility. Right?

01:32:37.60
Mike
Yo.

01:32:38.66
Bill
And I'm like, okay, so they're getting sued because people can't take responsibility. What you just said before with the Spotify thing, take care of me, do this for me.

01:32:43.76
Mike
Yeah. uh-huh Exactly.

01:32:49.63
Bill
And now these motherfuckers. Facebook should not better. should not be sued for these fucking things. That's my opinion.

01:32:54.91
Mike
h

01:32:55.52
Bill
Because these these fucking mindless idiots out there, and I don't care if you're a fucking 12-year-old or a 9-year-old or whatever it is, and you're getting drawn in by this, shame on your fucking parents.

01:32:55.89
Mike
Right.

01:33:00.95
Mike
a a

01:33:05.20
Mike
Thank you.

01:33:05.58
Bill
Okay. Yeah. Fuck your parents and you you kids out there. if you If you don't eat right, if you don't sleep right, if you don't if you're getting drawn into all this fucking shit, it's your parents' fault.

01:33:12.11
Mike
Yup.

01:33:15.89
Bill
It's not.

01:33:15.99
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:16.69
Bill
you know you you don't have You don't even have a fully developed brain yet. I don't mean that in a bad way.

01:33:19.99
Mike
Right.

01:33:21.15
Bill
These kids do not have a fully developed brain yet. I get it.

01:33:23.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:24.04
Bill
okay

01:33:24.15
Mike
Well, their parents probably don't either.

01:33:27.17
Bill
ah ha Good night, everyone.

01:33:31.79
Mike
Heh heh heh heh heh heh.

01:33:33.14
Bill
I'm done with this story. I made my point.

01:33:34.91
Mike
Yep.

01:33:35.12
Bill
That's that's the best guess the best fucking lie.

01:33:35.16
Mike
Yes, you did.

01:33:37.46
Bill
Seriously, i can't I can't talk about that anymore.

01:33:38.99
Mike
Heh heh heh.

01:33:39.66
Bill
You just you just you just made the point for me.

01:33:42.47
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:33:42.51
Bill
but okay no Seriously, i'm done I'm done talking about fucking Facebook. and Seriously, I think on that note, we need to be fucking done.

01:33:45.59
Mike
Good.

01:33:47.94
Bill
I cannot i cannot top that. i can't I can't fucking top that.

01:33:50.32
Mike
Good.

01:33:51.30
Bill
Thank you, Mike. and i think

01:33:52.61
Mike
You're quite welcome.

01:33:53.74
Bill
I think we are done. So guess guess what?

01:33:55.48
Mike
who

01:33:55.87
Bill
We're fucking done.

01:33:56.84
Mike
All right. Well... Thank you for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature.

01:33:59.96
Bill
Hehehehe.

01:34:03.90
Mike
We made you listen to it. ah Now you're done. You can't listen anymore because we're not doing any fucking more. Now, as always, be kind to each other, be good to each other. Go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:34:19.44
Mike
Now. from the bottom of my heart. to the depths of my soul. from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth Always. and eternally.

01:34:31.11
Mike
Hey, you texted me Fuck you. Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:34:44.88
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

01:34:51.81
Bill
Yeah.

01:34:51.57
Mike
Deep in the heart of Texas. is

01:34:54.97
Bill
did you say who texted you

01:34:56.38
Mike
No, I don't know I said, oh look somebody texted me. Fuck you

01:35:00.11
Bill
Oh. I thought you said I texted you. I'm looking at my phone. Did I send a text to you?

01:35:04.55
Mike
No.

01:35:05.04
Bill
This is what old people do. Huh?

01:35:06.59
Mike
that was That was a callback from when we sell people the fuck off when they text us my shit.

01:35:06.62
Bill
What'd you say?

01:35:11.100
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:12.41
Bill
Yeah, I know, I know. But anyhow, so speaking of Texas, you guys won't hear from us until after, obviously after the awards ceremony.

01:35:20.46
Mike
ha

01:35:20.76
Bill
We're recording, I think, normal time next week, correct?

01:35:23.10
Mike
I believe so.

01:35:24.27
Bill
Yeah, I think so too. that and I can't believe that.

01:35:26.15
Mike
Kicking off Labor Day weekend.

01:35:29.08
Bill
Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, it's fucking Labor Day weekend already.

01:35:31.43
Mike
No.

01:35:31.12
Bill
So, yeah, okay. all right but um

01:35:33.68
Mike
It's going to be our end of summer spectacular.

01:35:33.99
Bill
I don't know. Yeah, or back from summer vacations. Oh, wait, we don't take vacations.

01:35:40.98
Mike
Mmm. mm

01:35:41.57
Bill
Fuck all you podcasts that took vacations.

01:35:42.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:44.33
Bill
yeah Keep the roads clear for us, you goddamn fuckers.

01:35:46.71
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:35:47.40
Bill
Stay i got say on vacation for all we fucking care. but On a positive note.

01:35:50.07
Mike
Right.

01:35:51.92
Bill
Everyone out there. Keep good thoughts.

01:35:54.64
Mike
He he he he he he.

01:35:55.97
Bill
let's Let's bring home this motherfucking win, right?

01:35:59.42
Mike
Yes.

01:36:00.52
Bill
Okay. All right. So i yeah that's all I got.

01:36:01.63
Mike
Alright.

01:36:02.85
Bill
So, hey. Brother, I love you.

01:36:05.02
Mike
I love you too.

01:36:06.16
Bill
And we will not only talk soon in two days, I will see you soon in Texas.

01:36:09.05
Mike
Yes he will. ha

01:36:12.10
Bill
All right. Love you.

01:36:13.33
Mike
Love you too.

01:36:14.21
Bill
Bye.

01:36:14.98
Mike
Bye.