SoberNotMature - Episode 228 (Never Independent Yet Free Nonetheless)

00:00:01.62
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. You want to hear something funny and I do it every week and I don't think about it, but I just want to mention it to you.

00:00:09.36
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:00:13.43
Bill
When I do that stupid fucking opening that I just did, and and now I just kind of feel like I have to do it because I've done it for fucking ever now.

00:00:16.38
Mike
Yes.

00:00:20.07
Mike
Right.

00:00:20.59
Bill
Yeah.

00:00:20.70
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, don't take anything away.

00:00:21.91
Bill
it by

00:00:22.73
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:00:23.89
Bill
And it is. It's in that voice and the inflection. I try to you know hit the mark every single time, the whole bit.

00:00:26.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:00:28.93
Bill
But I literally sit here and I prepare myself. kind of you know i'm I'm in my chair. I'm sitting up. And it's like the right hand out with the finger out.

00:00:34.49
Mike
you see

00:00:36.29
Bill
And I'm like another. I'm pointing out. I mean, it's it so fucking stupid. If we had we had video, that's that's the only reason we don't have videos.

00:00:40.60
Mike
a

00:00:44.00
Bill
Because I don't want anyone to see what I...

00:00:45.05
Mike
One of many.

00:00:46.73
Bill
No, this is the only one. I don't want anyone to see how stupid I look when I do the opening.

00:00:48.02
Mike
okay. Right.

00:00:51.16
Bill
That's it.

00:00:51.61
Mike
yeah Well, I don't want on anyone to see how stupid I look for the entire thing.

00:00:54.94
Bill
here Right. So we could, yeah, I might have comments on video later again, too. But so I figured we'd start out so it on a serious note. So let's start out doing something for the the listener, something for the recovery community, because I don't think we've done it in a while.

00:01:04.41
Mike
yes

00:01:09.92
Bill
and And literally, this episode is being released on the holiday on 4th of July.

00:01:10.06
Mike
Okay.

00:01:14.48
Mike
It is.

00:01:14.97
Bill
We're recording, you know, ah Friday afternoon, little earlier than normal, thankfully.

00:01:14.94
Mike
Right.

00:01:19.43
Bill
But

00:01:19.42
Mike
Right.

00:01:20.86
Bill
So you guys will be listening to this at best case July 4th. So um I'm not real good at doing this because what I would say is listen, to you fuckers, don't drink.

00:01:24.28
Mike
Right.

00:01:28.78
Bill
Don't be a dickhead. You know, it's not worth it, you fucking idiot.

00:01:29.78
Mike
ah ha

00:01:31.77
Bill
Don't drink. But you have a better way of putting it, and you said it before. So I was just wondering if you might want to just kind of get that out there for the for the folks and do our little PSA or public service announcement.

00:01:36.31
Mike
right

00:01:43.61
Mike
Right. All right. Well, it's it's a fucking day on the calendar. It's a day like any other day. So, you know, um is your sobriety important to you today on the third on Friday? You're not listening to it on that day, but that's when we're doing this. And ah my sobriety is important to me today. So I'm going to stay sober.

00:02:06.91
Mike
um Tomorrow will be the 4th of July today as you're listening to it. And I'm going to, I plan, nothing guaranteed, but I plan on staying sober. um It's another day on the calendar.

00:02:20.54
Mike
You know what? It doesn't, don't let it affect your sobriety. January 6th is the most important day, right?

00:02:26.78
Bill
Right.

00:02:29.30
Bill
ah

00:02:29.46
Mike
Sobriety is the most important day in my life today.

00:02:32.50
Bill
Today.

00:02:32.74
Mike
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Right.

00:02:34.23
Bill
Right.

00:02:34.22
Mike
Exactly.

00:02:34.47
Bill
Yeah.

00:02:34.98
Mike
Yeah. So, you know, whatever. And I mean, you know, okay. Same thing, you know, and then what? as we die i've been i' been It's actually kind of worked for me quite well this week um for a number of reasons.

00:02:42.55
Bill
Right.

00:02:47.78
Mike
But um yes, I've been saying that to myself quite a bit this week. And then what?

00:02:53.17
Bill
Right.

00:02:53.34
Mike
um yeah and then what you know what i want to be around for next fourth of july i want to have the people that i care about and care about me i want that to continue so i'm going to stay sober so whatever the societal pressures are of uh it's a holiday we got a party shit man uh for for me personally i kind of uh used all that up you know i used that up on fucking uh you know may 3rd 1986 um on a tuesday afternoon yeah yeah so i'm gonna stay sober on this fourth of july

00:02:53.81
Bill
Right.

00:02:59.38
Bill
Right.

00:03:21.46
Bill
hey

00:03:30.94
Bill
Right.

00:03:36.13
Bill
Right. Yeah. You know, and I, and I like that so much. And the reason I was joking a little bit about it to begin with, but I, I like when you do that because even though it's, it's one of those, well, no shit, duh, um you know, type of statements, everything you just said, it's not, it's not revolutionary, but we, as far as we in this, this whole sobriety thing,

00:03:47.90
Mike
Right.

00:03:52.55
Mike
Mm.

00:03:56.86
Bill
We don't look at it that way, you know, and it does take somebody like yourself or or anyone else, you know, to, I mean, literally anyone else to just say those words, you know, that that's, that's sober and be like, yeah, it is.

00:03:56.91
Mike
Mm. All right.

00:04:01.73
Mike
Mm.

00:04:05.24
Mike
Yeah. Mm. Right.

00:04:09.06
Bill
it It literally is just another day. And it made me think about and I, I know you're not going to have an answer for this, but, but think about this, the, before we got sober, cause I mean, you know, we get 16 plus years doing this shit now.

00:04:10.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:14.62
Mike
Mm.

00:04:20.53
Bill
Um, but before that, that day that we walked into the Keating center, each of us, um, when was the last time, you know, that you actually, um, enjoyed a holiday as it was intended?

00:04:20.69
Mike
Right.

00:04:31.02
Bill
Cause you just said you wore everything on.

00:04:31.62
Mike
Right.

00:04:32.81
Bill
It wasn't even on a holiday.

00:04:33.98
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly.

00:04:35.24
Bill
What did you say? May 3rd, 86.

00:04:36.44
Mike
i Yeah, right. Yeah. Tuesday afternoon. Right.

00:04:39.64
Bill
Well, I'll tell you this May 3rd was, I think it was a Saturday in 1986. And I'll tell you why I know that's when, that's when, uh, Kimmy's mom and I got together.

00:04:45.06
Mike
Okay.

00:04:47.75
Mike
Ah.

00:04:50.39
Bill
100% swear to God, May 3rd of 1986. When you said that, I'm like, why does that fucking day ring a bell?

00:04:54.20
Mike
Wow.

00:04:55.99
Bill
You know? Yeah. And then, and then May, May 6th was my wedding date with Dawn, but May 3rd.

00:04:57.56
Mike
Okay.

00:05:02.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:03.17
Bill
Yeah. When you said that, I'm like, yeah, we were, we were sitting there. We were mom and Larry's in, in Wales, Wisconsin. It was her and a friend came over to the house and I'm not remember where a friend was, but Pam and I were sitting out back.

00:05:14.13
Bill
We've been friends for years, but But we're out back and that was like that was the first night that that we kissed. So the first night that we actually were kind of together, nothing nothing gross, nothing explicit happened.

00:05:21.63
Mike
Right. Well, yeah, right?

00:05:26.30
Bill
It was actually it was it was quite a beautiful moment you know what that at that time frame. but um So anyhow, that's a complete side note, but fuck it.

00:05:32.20
Mike
Hmm. Yes.

00:05:33.26
Bill
I don't care.

00:05:34.46
Mike
Hmm.

00:05:34.52
Bill
So other other podcasts would say, as I heard this week when I was listening to what I was what i was hate listening to podcast.

00:05:40.10
Mike
All right.

00:05:41.60
Bill
We'll talk about that later. But, oh, wait, this is completely not on the list, but we should talk about this. And I'm like, you fucking idiot. Just... got just

00:05:49.75
Mike
Just talk.

00:05:49.91
Bill
I hate it so much. I hate it so much, but I have to listen to it.

00:05:51.50
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:05:54.03
Bill
so But seriously, when was the when was the last time that you know either one of us would have had...

00:05:54.72
Mike
Last holiday, right? Yeah, right. last holiday right

00:05:59.48
Bill
Yeah, I mean, think about it. Then I'm like, okay, so that I was i was a good boy for even for a month.

00:06:03.64
Mike
m o

00:06:05.08
Bill
And then it's like, ooh, the holiday. I'm like, woo, it's the holiday.

00:06:07.57
Mike
yeah right

00:06:08.21
Bill
When's the last time that i that I had that? And I'm like, I can't... there I shit, college? High school?

00:06:13.50
Mike
di poof

00:06:14.54
Bill
Yeah.

00:06:14.50
Mike
And I mean, for me, yeah, probably as a child. I mean, right. If I happen if i happened to be sober on a holiday, I'm sure I was fucking miserable because I was fucking sober and didn't want to be.

00:06:19.22
Bill
ah her Right. Right. Right.

00:06:27.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:28.09
Bill
Yeah. I just I can't I can't remember just the we've talked about it, you know, plenty of times, but um all that the holidays did.

00:06:32.43
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:06:35.29
Bill
So we thought was to kind of put a little bit of a veil on how fucked up we were.

00:06:39.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:40.70
Bill
You know, that that our fucked up in this was was even with what people were doing and people wouldn't watch, you know, but it wasn't because I mean, I could I could go, you know, throughout my my whatever my quote unquote normal days were in the last couple of years when I was drinking heavily like that and drinking severely alcoholically, you know, and maybe get a slight hangover, but nothing, nothing, you know, critical.

00:06:40.79
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:06:46.06
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:06:54.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:57.38
Mike
Sure.

00:06:59.81
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:07:05.51
Bill
But then, you know, again, a holiday, a summertime or things like that, that's when you wake up and you're like, Jesus fucking Christ, which means i was hitting this level plus, you know, so.

00:07:05.79
Mike
Huh.

00:07:10.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:13.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Give yourself alcohol poisoning. I've done it. Right.

00:07:20.02
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, where you get where where you yeah here he literally can't you can't put a hold anything down.

00:07:22.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:26.72
Bill
Jody's graduation from high school, I did that to myself.

00:07:28.54
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:07:29.03
Bill
And Kathy and I were out there.

00:07:29.62
Mike
Mm

00:07:30.55
Bill
And it took from John Gail's house when we left that morning until we got to literally in the rest area.

00:07:34.64
Mike
hmm.

00:07:38.18
Bill
It's not there anymore, but there was used to be a rest area with a Dairy Queen about 45 minutes away from here, you know this area.

00:07:43.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:44.36
Bill
And that's when I could finally drink water and I got a blizzard at Dairy Queen.

00:07:44.31
Mike
Right.

00:07:48.23
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:49.46
Bill
You know, but I mean, that's, I mean, it's, it's hours, but I mean, that was, you know, going to bed, throwing up, doing the whole bit then literally like lying dead in her car, you know, for, for four hours.

00:07:59.54
Bill
And, you know, I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't even hold that water, you know, it's just fucking terrible.

00:08:02.41
Mike
Right.

00:08:03.34
Bill
So, yeah.

00:08:03.73
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Good times.

00:08:05.35
Bill
So, so boys and girls, that's what you have to look forward to.

00:08:06.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:07.85
Bill
If you, if you go back to a, a life of, of what we were just talking about, because yeah, there's, there's none of it, none of it's any fucking good. It's just, it's just fucking not.

00:08:15.56
Mike
Nah.

00:08:16.45
Bill
So. All right, so cool. So we got our little PSA out of the way. So yeah, just do do what Mike said or don't do what Mike said. No, I mean, don't do the thing, but do what Mike said, right?

00:08:25.14
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah, Treat it like any other day. Exactly.

00:08:28.89
Bill
yeah

00:08:28.95
Mike
You want to, yeah, be sober and and and move on. And before you know it'll be the fifth.

00:08:33.14
Bill
Right, in the... right Yeah, then the then what thing.

00:08:36.09
Mike
Right.

00:08:37.85
Bill
And i really i really enjoyed, again, having Jim on here.

00:08:38.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:08:41.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:41.89
Bill
And it's, I mean, his episode's doing well.

00:08:42.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:43.97
Bill
I want to talk about um guests and episodes a little bit too.

00:08:45.97
Mike
Cool.

00:08:46.41
Bill
if I mean, I got her i gotta to write a note. I feel so fucking off because I'm just, I mean, I'm out of my element. I mean, literally it's having ah having a fucking Friday off and it was running around.

00:08:53.23
Mike
Right.

00:08:55.87
Mike
Mm.

00:08:56.21
Bill
And then we had this particular time that we were going to do the podcast and I would not have been ready.

00:09:00.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:01.97
Bill
Even if I got back here in time, I wouldn't have been ready because I was fucking off on everything else.

00:09:02.42
Mike
Right.

00:09:05.78
Mike
Yeah, cool.

00:09:06.33
Bill
um But so the, you know, great conversation with him and all that.

00:09:09.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:09.98
Bill
the Then what is wonderful, but it made me think of the when you were just talking about it today, the though your whole conversation with Steve, the and you know tomorrow we're going to this and that.

00:09:21.38
Bill
um That was one of the things, one of the stories that got pulled out when I was going through all these transcripts.

00:09:22.78
Mike
m

00:09:27.54
Mike
ah

00:09:27.78
Bill
And and, you know, I mean, ah it's been a while since we talked about it and. First of all, I love the fucking story and it it hit paper really well. um And I'm like, this is a it's a great it's just it's the title of that chapter is tomorrow, you know, and it's fucking perfect.

00:09:36.85
Mike
Cool.

00:09:42.08
Mike
Cool. Yeah. A disclaimer, not that Steve-O. There was a Steve-O at the Keating Center with us.

00:09:48.54
Bill
Yeah, that not.

00:09:48.88
Mike
Right, and that Steve-O is a sober guy, too.

00:09:49.70
Bill
not

00:09:53.00
Mike
He's one of us, so you know it could be, but it's not.

00:09:54.50
Bill
Yeah.

00:09:55.81
Mike
Just wanted to make that clear.

00:09:56.66
Bill
yeah Yeah, god damn it, wouldn't that have been cool? They're like, God, do you you guys know Steve-O?

00:10:01.40
Mike
Right.

00:10:01.67
Bill
Did you hear?

00:10:01.90
Mike
Not yet.

00:10:02.59
Bill
The guys at Silver and Outmature know Steve-O.

00:10:03.66
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:10:05.43
Bill
Yeah, it's it's a different Steve-O. But yeah, just it's ah it's a great story.

00:10:08.75
Mike
yes

00:10:11.11
Bill
And hopefully, you know we'll we'll we'll talk about more of that later. But that's I can't remember what episode that was in.

00:10:14.84
Mike
o

00:10:16.79
Bill
But you know maybe if if we kind of get everything in order, then maybe you guys can actually read about that and see what it is on paper.

00:10:22.08
Mike
mean

00:10:23.11
Bill
so But yeah, it's ah it's just a great story. Yeah. But anyhow, so um I've got um I've got other stuff. I was going to say, obviously, but we had a couple of weeks of guests.

00:10:31.86
Mike
if fifty

00:10:33.09
Bill
But, you know, some things loaded up here. And I don't know. I I think you have a reading probably. But then I think we've got we've got some stuff.

00:10:38.71
Mike
Yeah, I do.

00:10:40.65
Bill
Yeah, I want to.

00:10:41.08
Mike
We do.

00:10:41.37
Bill
I do.

00:10:41.48
Mike
We got, yeah, we, all kinds of stuff, man.

00:10:41.77
Bill
I want to. I want to.

00:10:45.94
Bill
And I do.

00:10:46.25
Mike
We can talk about my power being out.

00:10:46.34
Bill
I want to. I want to.

00:10:47.88
Mike
I went and saw a movie today, all kinds of stuff.

00:10:51.29
Bill
yeah Yeah. You kind of surprised me when you said that. You're like, I'm at the movies. I'm like, you're at the movies.

00:10:54.51
Mike
Right.

00:10:55.13
Bill
Really? You don't go anywhere.

00:10:55.63
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:10:56.33
Bill
Why are at the movies?

00:10:57.63
Mike
Exactly. Because I have no fucking power at my house and it's a thousand fucking degrees.

00:10:59.28
Bill
Yeah.

00:11:02.71
Mike
And I, yeah.

00:11:02.90
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:11:04.11
Mike
So I got out and I was like, you know what? And actually went to the mall and we'll talk about it. Let's do the reading first.

00:11:11.61
Bill
Okay, cool. Let's, let's get, let's get that. i wasn't even going to say it, but I almost did.

00:11:13.91
Mike
Let's do that.

00:11:15.38
Bill
And almost said out of the way, which I don't want to, i don't want to put it that way.

00:11:15.84
Mike
Yeah. No, no, let's not get that out of the way.

00:11:18.83
Bill
So.

00:11:20.21
Mike
Let's start our fucking podcast like we start our fucking day with some good thoughts rolling around our heads that aren't ours. That's redundant. Thank you.

00:11:28.44
Bill
Yeah, what he said.

00:11:28.45
Mike
um Yes. So Independence Day, right? couple things.

00:11:33.72
Bill
Right.

00:11:34.43
Mike
So um I grabbed all my books, got home about an hour ago and grabbed all my books because I had nothing from this week, Mark. And I was all, I'm going to look up independence. Hey, guess what?

00:11:45.72
Mike
None of the books have independents listed. Yeah, not a fucking one of them.

00:11:49.98
Bill
Really?

00:11:52.96
Mike
And I thought about that for a minute and I'm like, hmm, wonder why. um Well, and then i I kind of got an answer. So I'll share that with you um because we're never going to be fucking independent.

00:12:06.34
Mike
Right.

00:12:06.64
Bill
Right.

00:12:06.73
Mike
we're We're alcoholics and drug addicts. We were dependent on the substances and now we're dependent on something else to keep us away from the substances. You know, we're never going to be truly and wholly independent. And I'm kind of OK with that. You know, we need each other. We need the program. We need principles. We need.

00:12:26.85
Mike
habits and and all kinds of shit we need. We're dependent on shit. and We always will be. um So, yeah, there you go. So all the books, none of them.

00:12:37.34
Mike
And I went through like five of them and none of them have independence as a subject.

00:12:40.02
Bill
hey

00:12:43.38
Mike
But.

00:12:43.48
Bill
i I can see you sitting there going, it's got to be in this one.

00:12:43.96
Mike
see Right, sure, it's got to be one.

00:12:46.84
Bill
It's got to be in this one.

00:12:48.54
Mike
No, not a fucking one.

00:12:50.33
Bill
Nice.

00:12:52.66
Mike
So, um but um the freedom, there's a whole hell of a lot about freedom in the books.

00:12:53.01
Bill
Right.

00:13:00.58
Mike
And um yeah, exactly.

00:13:01.14
Bill
nice

00:13:02.90
Mike
So, you know, Independence Day, freedom, bu bla blah, blah, blah, I grabbed As Bill Sees It today. And yes, I know.

00:13:10.55
Bill
Oh.

00:13:12.46
Mike
Right. Because I mean, like I said, so freedom. So I went through a bunch of them and let's talk. This is a subject near and dear to my heart. So ah yeah, here we go. This is as Bill sees it.

00:13:23.75
Mike
If you don't know, um these are quotes and in readings and stuff from his writing. Some from the 12 and 12, some from the big book, some from Grapevine.

00:13:29.95
Bill
Right.

00:13:33.72
Mike
um articles he wrote, letters he wrote. Anyway, so this is a couple things. The first part is from Grapevine in April 1961, and the second part is from Alcoholics Anonymous, page 93. So here we go.

00:13:51.25
Mike
As Bill sees it, unlimited choice. And this is from the grapevine. Any number of alcoholics are bedeviled by ah the dire conviction that if they ever go near AA, they will be pressured to conform to some particular brand of faith or theology.

00:14:09.13
Mike
They just don't realize that faith is never imperative for AA membership. That sobriety can be achieved with an easily acceptable minimum of it.

00:14:20.28
Mike
And that our concept of a higher power and God, as we understand him, afford everyone nearly unlimited choice of spiritual belief and action.

00:14:32.55
Mike
And this is the second part from the big book. In talking to a prospect, stress the spiritual feature freely. If the man be agnostic or atheist, make it empathetic that he does not have to agree with your conception of God. He can choose any conception he likes, provided it makes sense to him.

00:14:54.38
Mike
The main thing is he has to be willing to believe in a power greater than himself and that he live by spiritual principles.

00:15:04.66
Mike
Thanks for the loophole, Bill.

00:15:05.07
Bill
Oh shit.

00:15:09.40
Bill
So believe in that was just I, there wasn't like that. i didn't know where the ending part was and I was sitting there writing and then I hear silence.

00:15:12.79
Mike
Right.

00:15:15.50
Mike
Right, that's it.

00:15:16.04
Bill
I'm like, Oh fuck. Oh fuck.

00:15:17.21
Mike
Right, cool.

00:15:19.80
Bill
So um first of all, and I almost read out greater than because I was writing it down.

00:15:22.38
Mike
e

00:15:24.83
Bill
Jesus Christ. I'm such a I am such a fucking simpleton ah writing words down and they almost came out of my mouth.

00:15:28.18
Mike
yeah right cool

00:15:32.92
Bill
So um as Bill sees it, and I don't remember where I got the book, but I have it.

00:15:37.08
Mike
see

00:15:37.80
Bill
I know I have it.

00:15:37.91
Mike
he

00:15:38.76
Bill
um I think that might be. That might actually be in my in my car with my big bookings, whatever. Maybe not. I don't know. But i know I have one.

00:15:45.85
Mike
Right. Alright.

00:15:47.29
Bill
And when when I first got that job out in Rocky River, when we were still at the Keating Center, and I'd get there because to begin with, I took the bus.

00:15:51.96
Mike
m

00:15:57.07
Bill
So I would take the bus and get dropped off basically in front of the office.

00:15:57.43
Mike
Right.

00:16:00.35
Bill
It was a Burger King. I'd get dropped off a a little after 7.

00:16:02.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:03.79
Bill
And I'd go in and get coffee because I had a half hour until I could even get into the building. I didn't start till eight. So I would go into the building literally at seven 30 and I'd go down in the break room.

00:16:14.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:15.46
Bill
I usually, you know have my cup of coffee with me from Burger King. And then I, I would read, um, as Bill sees it.

00:16:18.55
Mike
Right.

00:16:22.60
Mike
Ah.

00:16:23.24
Bill
And it's just kind of funny on it. I haven't read it now and in years, you know?

00:16:26.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:26.68
Bill
Um, but I remember it, you know, cause again, we were so fucking new. I was like, you know, like four months over five months over or something like that.

00:16:31.06
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right, right.

00:16:33.92
Bill
And I remember having that and I had this, this soft briefcase and I would have that sitting in front of me on the table while I'm reading the book in case somebody came in.

00:16:39.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:43.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:16:45.64
Bill
Cause I was, I would have been, i would have been embarrassed, you know, to have somebody see me reading the book or were like, Oh, what's that?

00:16:46.13
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:16:52.06
Mike
Of course.

00:16:53.07
Bill
You know?

00:16:53.30
Mike
Right. Not riding the bus, not being locked out of your work and for a half an hour. Not living at the Keating Center, none of that stuff. Not fucking destroying your entire life, but reading a book.

00:17:02.18
Bill
Right.

00:17:05.78
Bill
Right. Well, and and that's why that's why I brought it up because it was so stupid, you know, and it was just so so fucking ridiculous.

00:17:08.41
Mike
I know. Right.

00:17:11.74
Bill
But so the the independence part, yeah, I mean, it was just it's just where that where your mindset is at that time.

00:17:13.46
Mike
But I get it

00:17:18.30
Bill
And there's nothing wrong with five months sober because, I mean, anyone, if you, once you achieve that, when you've got 30 days and then 60 and then that 90 days seems to be the thing and then as you start working into that, get closer to six months, these these times in your sobriety are fucking huge.

00:17:18.27
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:17:21.49
Mike
Right.

00:17:24.45
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

00:17:32.05
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:17:35.43
Bill
So I'm not trying to diminish that. OK, I'm just laughing at myself now based on, you know, I knew I know I don't think and thank you.

00:17:37.50
Mike
Right. Of course. Yeah. I was laughing at you, too. it

00:17:43.50
Bill
That's that's what that's what we do. But the so the independence thing, um I I could say 100 percent.

00:17:45.05
Mike
Exactly.

00:17:50.62
Bill
We've never talked about that before, because I mean, I'm guessing you were as surprised as I was that.

00:17:52.28
Mike
is is

00:17:56.63
Bill
that it was never brought up.

00:17:58.30
Mike
Right.

00:17:58.44
Bill
Um, cause I could have sworn there had to have been a reading that mentioned, you know, we celebrate today. We celebrate our independence. I mean, tomorrow's the 4th of July.

00:18:04.82
Mike
a

00:18:05.67
Bill
Maybe if it, if it comes up in one of the readings, I'll be, I'll be shocked now because if it didn't, if it didn't give you the the search word, but, um,

00:18:05.88
Mike
Right.

00:18:09.14
Mike
m

00:18:12.18
Mike
Right.

00:18:13.37
Bill
even Even if it did. Okay, so even if there's three of those words in in the books, I like that that you know kind of breakdown of it because it is.

00:18:16.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:21.19
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:22.58
Bill
It's true. Now, maybe some people would look at that in a bad way and be like, what the fuck, man?

00:18:26.20
Mike
Mm.

00:18:27.06
Bill
I'm never gonna have any independence. and But to your point, and I agree with you.

00:18:28.52
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:18:30.66
Bill
I kind of like this. I like what you said.

00:18:32.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:33.39
Bill
Yes, the the initial dependence brought us to this, and now it's just that it's a different thing.

00:18:36.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:38.55
Bill
We've got a different – Call it an addiction, call it a thing, call it an affliction, if you want to put it.

00:18:38.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:44.19
Bill
You know, that way we have a thing that has to be, um we have to fill this void every goddamn day.

00:18:51.29
Mike
Yep.

00:18:52.56
Bill
We filled it with alcohol before.

00:18:52.59
Mike
Yep.

00:18:54.20
Bill
Now we're filling it with recovery.

00:18:54.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:55.92
Bill
And if we don't do that, we're gonna go back to this one.

00:18:56.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:58.53
Bill
Yeah.

00:18:58.65
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:19:01.33
Bill
and And what didn't change, regardless of which one? Right in the middle of that is is you know independence, and we don't we don't get that. We get the left or we get the right. We don't get that we don't get this thing in the middle. we're We're going to be dependent on something.

00:19:13.13
Bill
We just need to choose which fucking thing it is, right?

00:19:13.50
Mike
yeah Exactly. Right. But there's and there's the word choice. See, we do have freedom.

00:19:19.38
Bill
Right.

00:19:20.11
Mike
I have plenty of choices today. i have all kinds of choices today. I choose wrong. Well, I i have consequences to all of my choices. We do. Right. You know, yeah.

00:19:29.64
Bill
Right.

00:19:29.75
Mike
Good and bad. I make a choice. I have a consequence to that choice. You know, thankfully, most of the choices I make today are, you know, I get good consequences from. Um, you know, but I still make some choices and get some bad consequences.

00:19:44.30
Mike
And I don't like that. So then I, I make different choices, you know, and the ones that at work, I don't like that.

00:19:49.72
Bill
I don't like that. hey

00:19:52.65
Mike
Right. So yes, but you know, the choices that I get the good consequences from, I continue to choose to do those things, but it's, but I have freedom, which I did not have when I was drinking and using You know, I i had to drink and I had to use.

00:19:54.14
Bill
okay

00:20:07.51
Mike
um There was no choice. Plenty of times where, you know, I didn't want to. um i had to. And, you know, that's that's not freedom. That's friggin slavery.

00:20:19.09
Mike
Right. Today, i have freedom.

00:20:20.34
Bill
Right.

00:20:21.50
Mike
I have choice. I could choose to go get a bottle. I could choose to go get a bag. I choose not to because I don't want those fucking consequences because I know what they are.

00:20:28.72
Bill
Right.

00:20:32.38
Mike
um But yes, you know, freedom is very different than independence.

00:20:40.39
Bill
Right. Yeah. I mean, like, like you just said, you don't want that. I don't like that. This is maybe left. No, no, I don't, I don't like that.

00:20:46.52
Mike
No.

00:20:47.07
Bill
But, um, you know, and that's, in that if I could Mr.

00:20:47.29
Mike
No, sir. don't like that.

00:20:53.39
Bill
Horse that saying or that situation, but, um, so that goes back to, it it made me think about it and I want to bring it again, bring it up again, because I, I, I'm sure, you know, people are, are saying it all day, every day in meetings all over the fucking world.

00:20:53.98
Mike
Yes.

00:21:07.74
Bill
You know, either say drinking is not an option or to me today, drinking is not a choice.

00:21:10.49
Mike
Right.

00:21:13.97
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:21:14.46
Bill
That's a that's bullshit. OK, because it is.

00:21:15.99
Mike
Right.

00:21:17.10
Bill
It's all drinking is always an option and drinking is always a fucking choice.

00:21:19.26
Mike
e

00:21:21.94
Bill
I don't care if you got 25 minutes sober or 25 years.

00:21:22.12
Mike
Right.

00:21:25.30
Bill
You know, it when when people say that it just in it.

00:21:25.61
Mike
Right.

00:21:27.90
Mike
he

00:21:28.42
Bill
I remember it driving me nuts early in sobriety and not understanding why, because I didn't I didn't get it.

00:21:31.77
Mike
Right.

00:21:34.34
Bill
You know, I'm like, I don't know why that bothers me, but it.

00:21:34.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Of course we always have that. It's a really fucking, it's a really fucking bad choice, but it's a choice.

00:21:37.88
Bill
hey

00:21:40.60
Mike
Hmm.

00:21:42.01
Bill
Right. I mean, think about it. You've got a choice right now to, like you know like you said, walk out and you know hit some old lady over the head and take her money.

00:21:48.81
Mike
Yeah. I can.

00:21:51.38
Bill
I mean, you you've got that option and you've got that choice.

00:21:51.74
Mike
I can. Yup.

00:21:54.54
Bill
Now, the only time that you might not have the option to do that is if you didn't have the physical ability to walk, for instance.

00:21:54.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:59.93
Mike
Right.

00:22:00.38
Bill
But then maybe you could wheel your ass out.

00:22:00.66
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:22:05.46
Bill
You just see, ah hey, hey i I'm heading out in wheelchair to go commit some crime.

00:22:09.11
Mike
yeah Exactly. You know, and it might take me a little longer to find an old lady, but, you know, if I've made...

00:22:14.49
Bill
hu Hey, come here. I need some help. Boom.

00:22:17.91
Mike
i you're Exactly.

00:22:20.44
Bill
ah But no, seriously, that the independence part, I mean, that that really, that struck me the right way. I've never, I just never, I've never thought about that before. And I know we've never talked about it.

00:22:30.01
Mike
Yeah, me neither.

00:22:31.00
Bill
But so the other thing that I wrote down, I wrote down the dire conviction and, you know, pressures to conform.

00:22:31.01
Mike
Right.

00:22:37.93
Bill
So that was talking about coming into AA and conforming with AA itself.

00:22:41.04
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:43.09
Bill
Am I getting that right?

00:22:43.42
Mike
Right.

00:22:44.79
Bill
Okay.

00:22:44.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:45.07
Bill
Okay.

00:22:45.50
Mike
I mean, yeah. You know, i I mean, Bill, I think, was talking about, um you know, people staying away from AA because they think that they have the conception that they have to conform to, you know, whatever religion or, you know, yeah.

00:23:00.70
Mike
You know, and and he's. ah very clearly said that is not the case. You know, this thing is open and and it's your conception and, you know, whatever, man, just come on in.

00:23:13.22
Mike
Don't be afraid. We're not going to, you know, we're not going to make you do something that doesn't work for you. You know, um you're going to, if you stick around and you start doing the work, you're going to find a way to make this work for you.

00:23:26.23
Mike
And I'm, you know, ah living proof that that's absolutely true.

00:23:31.69
Bill
Right. Well, and and that's the interesting part, too, because the the thing of it is that I mean, you and I have never tried to, you know, this whole thing is about attraction rather than promotion. So we haven't, you know, specifically we were told not to.

00:23:41.09
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:43.70
Bill
But even again, we've got a choice, I suppose, you know, we could go out and try to, you know, try to, you know, promote this and pull people in or people don't believe in AA, you know, you should because well, believe whatever the fuck you want, you know.

00:23:46.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:50.84
Mike
hmm.

00:23:54.04
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Yes.

00:23:56.34
Bill
um You know, but the the thing of it is, is that I i do think that, you know, AA gets a weird, if nothing else, I don't even say it's a bad rap.

00:24:03.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:04.90
Bill
I think it gets a a weird rap sometimes or possibly, ah like you just said, you know, kind of a, it's a misconception, you know, of what this what this whole thing is.

00:24:11.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:24:13.34
Bill
And I wouldn't have, well, again, I knew, I knew some of the stuff from my dad, but my dad was a God guy and he did some certain things a certain way and blah, blah, blah.

00:24:21.85
Mike
Sure.

00:24:22.46
Bill
So I don't know that I would have gotten the clearest overall picture of Alcoholics Anonymous just for my dad.

00:24:26.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:28.30
Bill
However, when we came in and people started, you know, like the, the Dan's and the Tony's and the, even the Larry's, you know, that were in there and started giving us their, their, you know, basically their perception

00:24:28.38
Mike
Right.

00:24:32.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:24:38.81
Mike
Experience, strength, and hope. Right.

00:24:41.14
Bill
Yeah, and they're in their reality, you know, that that they've lived and opened up our eyes to the fact that it it really isn't that rigid, you know, and you really don't have to necessarily conform.

00:24:42.90
Mike
Yes.

00:24:50.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:52.04
Bill
Now, the other thing, too, and it just kind of made me laugh and I looked it up again. do you remember we were talking about when somebody referred to AA as a cult and we looked up the definition?

00:25:00.21
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yes.

00:25:00.92
Bill
and And once again, just in case you guys didn't hear this the first time, A cult is a group of so a group or social movement.

00:25:09.98
Mike
m

00:25:10.42
Bill
Okay, AA is considered a a group or social movement, right?

00:25:13.14
Mike
Yes, absolutely.

00:25:15.25
Bill
Characterized by unwavering devotion, right?

00:25:17.30
Mike
m

00:25:18.49
Bill
Okay, because we we just explained that, that we yeah we are devoted.

00:25:18.48
Mike
Yep. Yeah.

00:25:21.37
Bill
To a set of beliefs, an object, or a charismatic leader or leaders, right? Okay, so so far that we line up, it hit it tracks...

00:25:29.72
Mike
Yes. Cult, cult, cult.

00:25:32.41
Bill
kind

00:25:33.05
Mike
Yes, it is.

00:25:33.58
Bill
it's It's walking, talking, quacking like a cult.

00:25:36.63
Mike
yes it is

00:25:37.06
Bill
um Let's see. Historically, it meant worship. There is some. We're talking about the other side of it, but there is.

00:25:41.66
Mike
yeah yeah

00:25:43.46
Bill
um Today, though, the term opicare is a negative connotation, describing cohesive groups that exploit members, restrict access to information, and isolate them from the outside world.

00:25:48.40
Mike
yeah hey hmm right mm-hmm yeah the main definition absolutely it's it's there

00:25:55.50
Bill
So AA doesn't do those things, but the the the main sentence, let me read that again. ah ah A cult is a group or social movement characterized by unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs, an object, or a charismatic leader.

00:26:11.94
Bill
Now, again, the the, I don't know, words around it or the the further explanation, that's what goes into well historically.

00:26:20.78
Mike
Ref?

00:26:21.43
Bill
But yeah, so when somebody says AA is a cult, I mean, yeah, it is. Right.

00:26:25.46
Mike
Right. Yeah. um You know, I mean, yeah, there's ah there's a certain group of us that, yeah, the cult, you know, you know, and and we do it jokingly, but, you know, there's there's there's aspects.

00:26:31.40
Bill
Right.

00:26:35.25
Bill
Right.

00:26:36.74
Mike
Absolutely. And we understand that. But because of the type of cult it is, um it doesn't have all that.

00:26:43.06
Bill
a

00:26:46.22
Mike
the The last part, the negative part. Right. You know, it it doesn't limit access to information.

00:26:49.16
Bill
Right.

00:26:51.66
Mike
It encourages access to information. um it you know ah Read those again.

00:26:58.42
Bill
Oh, shit. I just hang on one second here.

00:26:59.54
Mike
Yeah, of course.

00:27:01.80
Bill
No, that's okay. it's It's right there. It's right there in my search.

00:27:03.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:04.25
Bill
um Oh, the the things afterward, are like historically?

00:27:06.65
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. yeah the The negative part.

00:27:07.90
Bill
Okay. ah Historically, it meant to worship. They have that in quotes. Today, the term often carries a negative connotation, describing insular, coa coercive groups that exploit members, restrict access to information, and isolate them from the outside world.

00:27:15.45
Mike
Right.

00:27:22.00
Mike
Right.

00:27:25.27
Mike
Right. Yes. Well, it does not coerce us. It doesn't limit us. It doesn't isolate us. You know, it's all the opposite, right?

00:27:32.82
Bill
Right.

00:27:33.87
Mike
Get your fucking ass out there and live your life. Be a part of this world. Be a part of, you know, yes, be a part of Alcoholics Anonymous, the cult, um but ah but also be a part of society.

00:27:39.46
Bill
Right.

00:27:46.76
Mike
Be a good person. Get out there and do good things and and be a part of this world. And that was, you know, um I don't know about you, but it was a huge part of my disease was, you know, not being a part of this world, you know, isolating myself and and limiting my access to information and having contempt prior to investigation.

00:28:10.57
Mike
That was a big part of it. um Yeah, right. And it it it did all of those negative things, AA for me, um doest it promotes the exact opposite.

00:28:22.01
Mike
you know if you're If you're doing it right and you're around the right type of drunks and the right people, and yeah you know um i mean the guys that we hung out with, they were like, hey man, you don't want to live your life in a church basement.

00:28:33.53
Mike
um and And we don't, thankfully.

00:28:37.56
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. Oh, and just a funny side note here. So, you know, obviously at Google, I looked up Colton on the side note, it gives like certain sites and whatever. And so I'm sitting here looking at a picture of Charles Manson.

00:28:45.68
Mike
ahhah

00:28:48.73
Mike
Nice.

00:28:49.66
Bill
yeah yeah said youre Hey, Chuck, you're sitting there talking about fucking AA and Colton.

00:28:50.26
Mike
Hey, Charlie.

00:28:54.29
Mike
Yeah. Mm. Mm.

00:28:56.74
Bill
I look, I'm like, holy fuck. this it is That's Charles Manson.

00:28:58.74
Mike
you feel feet experience

00:28:59.75
Bill
Okay. So that, yeah, he was he was that kind of guy. so but But no, I mean, it's just it's interesting.

00:29:03.06
Mike
yeah

00:29:05.79
Bill
so what Once we had, in the whole point with this, um I think with this with this mindset that we were just talking about, the readings talking about, is having the...

00:29:16.05
Bill
The only way that any of this shit works, even to to get our foot the door of any part of recovery, is having that that openness or that open-mindedness.

00:29:23.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:24.73
Bill
All it takes, you said it ah a hundred times, if not a thousand times, little glimmer of hope, little glimmer of faith, just a little bit of openness.

00:29:30.14
Mike
Yep. Yep.

00:29:33.63
Bill
That's it.

00:29:33.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:34.19
Bill
Even if you don't believe, you know, the act as if type of thing, but just having a little bit of openness to to step in there and be like, what's this whole cult thing about?

00:29:36.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:42.81
Mike
Exactly.

00:29:43.07
Bill
And then

00:29:43.73
Mike
Open-mindedness and willingness.

00:29:46.01
Bill
Man, where have heard that before, right?

00:29:47.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:47.81
Bill
um you know And just you know sit down long enough to realize that, hey, it's not it's not just this. you know There's some movement to this. Yes, there are 12 specific steps, but they're listed as suggestions.

00:29:59.05
Bill
But yeah, we highly suggest. Oh, side note, I i watched a few good men.

00:30:00.95
Mike
Yes.

00:30:06.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:07.32
Bill
The other day, you know, just like i've I've been wanting to watch it. And finally, it was it was like $3. It was so fucking cheap. So I put it on. and I watched the goddamn thing. First of all, I love the movie. I think it holds up. Everyone's so goddamn young and whatever.

00:30:16.44
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:30:17.92
Bill
But it's the, again, to be more in the corner. I object. Oh, I strenuously object. Just that whole fucking thing, it just just fucking cracked me up.

00:30:28.67
Bill
um you know but But again, getting getting to the point of sitting in these rooms and realizing that we don't have to be, you know we're again, we're we're strenuously suggesting that that you follow these steps, but you don't have to you know if you don't want the right result.

00:30:39.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. No.

00:30:42.87
Bill
But if you want the cake to turn out like it's supposed to be,

00:30:43.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:45.69
Mike
Right.

00:30:46.62
Bill
Follow the goddamn directions. That's what the steps are. it's It's so goddamn simple. And once again, Mike and I are not sitting there telling you that that if you're listening to us, you don't do AA that you should.

00:30:50.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:55.78
Bill
I don't know if you should or not.

00:30:57.43
Mike
I don't know.

00:30:57.53
Bill
You know, if you're so if you're struggling, you know, why why not pop in and take a peek?

00:30:58.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:01.37
Bill
You know, I don't know.

00:31:01.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:02.21
Bill
You know, figure out what you like or what you don't like, you know.

00:31:04.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:05.50
Bill
But I don't know that that whole reading was good. And then obviously talking about, you know, the the spiritual part, not having to, you know, necessarily agree with what this person believes in and believing just we all all we've been told is, you know, believing that we all we have to believe is that that higher power thing, whatever it is, is not us.

00:31:24.01
Bill
You know, that's as as simply as explained to us.

00:31:24.31
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:31:26.45
Bill
And that's kind of what that reading was saying. Right.

00:31:28.57
Mike
Yep, absolutely. Absolutely.

00:31:30.30
Bill
but Well, you know what? That was ah that was a nice little sidestep from the norm with the readings. And I have to say, Mike, I like that. i really I really, really did.

00:31:39.94
Mike
Cool.

00:31:40.26
Bill
So that was ah that was a good one. anything Anything we missed on that? Anything else that you want to...

00:31:45.05
Mike
Oh, probably, but, you know. Yeah, I think we're good. Yeah, I think we're good.

00:31:51.51
Bill
Okay, cool. So um since you already, you know, kind of dipped into the whole power thing. So talk about, talk about the whole thing.

00:31:57.30
Mike
yeah

00:31:57.83
Bill
You finish, finish your story.

00:31:58.74
Mike
yeah

00:31:59.07
Bill
So I, I want to know what movie you saw.

00:31:59.67
Mike
like Lack of power.

00:32:01.21
Bill
Number one, not.

00:32:02.11
Mike
That was my dilemma.

00:32:02.42
Bill
Yeah. And it's, it's just so funny.

00:32:04.66
Mike
ah

00:32:04.90
Bill
it It really, it really is. I think it fits.

00:32:07.06
Mike
It was. Yeah. So I yeah had the day off. Right. So I got up this morning. Actually, um I got up around seven. Right. And I was like, cool, man. You know, I slept in an extra hour and I'm just going to laze around and blah, blah, blah. So I'm sitting in the living room and I don't know, quarter after nine something.

00:32:24.64
Mike
The fucking air conditioner went out and I went, ah, shit.

00:32:28.47
Bill
ah

00:32:30.20
Mike
And sat there. And yeah, which of course, you know, everything went out the internet and bubble blah, blah, blah, blah. I've got complete garbage reception in my house for whatever reason.

00:32:40.84
Mike
um Yeah.

00:32:40.98
Bill
Really?

00:32:42.81
Mike
I always have. It's whatever this is. Remember Johnny's old house out in ah North Olmstead or whatever?

00:32:46.87
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:48.22
Mike
He had like just rotten reception in that spot. Right.

00:32:51.33
Bill
Right.

00:32:51.54
Mike
Yeah. I mean, I go down to the end of the block and it's fine. But for whatever reason, yes, my house, I get shit reception.

00:32:54.69
Bill
Right.

00:32:58.20
Mike
So I can't fucking connect to anything. Plus, I think when the power went out, like all the relays went out and everything. So, I mean, you know, it'll be I'll get Internet, but it's like super slow.

00:33:08.90
Mike
Whatever. Use my data.

00:33:09.59
Bill
Right.

00:33:10.38
Mike
um I was getting nothing for like a half an hour. So yeah, you know, I could get phone calls and I could text and whatever, but that was it. um

00:33:18.65
Bill
Huh.

00:33:19.26
Mike
Yeah, no shit. So um anyway, so I got my ass up and and I was okay, man. Well, I had some errands to run, so I guess I'm doing them earlier than I wanted to.

00:33:29.20
Bill
Right.

00:33:30.65
Mike
Because like I said, it's the goddamn surface of the sun here. It was you know it was already 90 degrees outside at fucking 9.30 in the morning, 10 o'clock in the morning. So, yeah. And it's getting hot in here. And I'm like, you know, opening window is just going to make it worse. ah um So, all right, I got out.

00:33:49.42
Mike
Um, so I went and I just like went to some stores and shit, you know, to kind of whatever, kill some time. Um, and, uh, ended up going out the Walmart I go to out in North Olmstead, um,

00:33:56.30
Bill
right.

00:34:03.45
Mike
uh, the great Northern malls right across the street from it. So I'm like, yeah, yeah.

00:34:06.36
Bill
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:34:07.57
Mike
So I'm like, yeah, fuck man. I'm going to go into the mall for a couple of minutes and just whatever.

00:34:10.68
Bill
Why not?

00:34:12.34
Mike
Right. You know, I try to try to fill some time, man.

00:34:13.21
Bill
right yeah why not

00:34:16.74
Mike
And, um, yeah. So I walked in there and I'm like kind of walking around and there's nothing fucking whatever. and um ended up standing in front of the movie theater there. And I'm like, well, fuck, I haven't been to the movies in years.

00:34:33.36
Mike
Right.

00:34:35.88
Mike
there anything playing that I would be even halfway interested in? Probably not. But um anyway, but yeah, so um literally um the the new Spielberg movie, right?

00:34:40.73
Bill
Right.

00:34:47.40
Mike
Disclosure Day about aliens.

00:34:48.55
Bill
Oh, sure. Sure.

00:34:49.22
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:34:49.30
Bill
Yep.

00:34:50.17
Mike
um Was so literally starting in like 10 minutes. So I got my phone out and bought a ticket online and i went and got myself a big bag of popcorn and a big bottle of water and went and sat my ass down.

00:35:06.97
Mike
um Yeah, movie experience. um The movie was great, by the way. i recommend it. it's um It's actually kind of a nice ah companion to Close Encounters, right?

00:35:19.42
Mike
His alien movie from, you know, the 70s.

00:35:19.64
Bill
Really? Right.

00:35:22.63
Mike
Yeah, um similar stuff, kind of. Seriously updated and whatever. But yeah, definitely similarities. And I loved Close Encounters when I was a kid, so that worked.

00:35:33.65
Bill
Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah.

00:35:34.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:34.79
Bill
Right.

00:35:34.94
Mike
um My only complaint was it was one of those theaters that was like fucking surround sound and it had the reclining seats and shit. And um it was distracting.

00:35:45.90
Mike
every Like a door would close and the fucking seat would rattle.

00:35:50.58
Bill
oh really?

00:35:51.32
Mike
Yeah. And I'm like, you know, in any kind of base, any kind of, you know, the music would swell up and the fucking thing, it was, it was distracting, you know? I mean, by the end of the movie, I was kind of used to it and whatever, but, um, yeah, no thank you.

00:36:06.77
Bill
Right.

00:36:08.80
Mike
I'm sure whatever, you know, ah you know chasing there was a couple of you know pretty exciting chase scenes whatever, and I'm sure the morons out there are, yeah, chase scenes, my seat's vibrating, just like I beat the movie, you know.

00:36:21.17
Mike
um But yeah, it was a really cool movie. um I recommend it.

00:36:26.46
Bill
Right. Well, you know, and the thing with it is the surround sound. I thought you were talking about the surround sound. I didn't necessarily realize the seats did that, but as soon as you said that, I'm like, that's got to be, it's got to be catering to the video game generation, you know, video game, not even generation, the video gamers, you know, because you can get controllers that vibrate.

00:36:40.07
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Right. Mm hmm.

00:36:46.56
Bill
And I think the, you know, the video game chairs and whatever, mean, I've had controllers that, you know, that vibrate.

00:36:49.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:51.97
Bill
I mean, that was back when, you know, the early, even the first PlayStation had that, Um, you know, but the, the chairs and stuff like that would, I think that would annoy the fuck out of me.

00:36:56.09
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:37:00.91
Bill
I think it.

00:37:00.88
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and i I don't even know. i mean, it wasn't like it was like, you know, vibrating like a ride or some shit. It was just, it was just the way it worked in the theater.

00:37:09.02
Bill
Right.

00:37:12.17
Mike
And clearly it was a feature that they liked and promoted and whatever. But I, I, I found it horribly distracting for quite a while. Um, you know, until I, whatever, kind of, I was trying to ignore it because the movie was good, but.

00:37:21.85
Bill
Right.

00:37:26.58
Bill
ah

00:37:27.80
Mike
Hmm.

00:37:28.28
Bill
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's good. I guess, I guess worst case scenario that even if you would have, you know, walked out of there or walked into a movie that would have been shitty, at least you were able to be cool for a couple hours, you know?

00:37:34.84
Mike
you Right. Yeah, exactly.

00:37:39.95
Bill
Um, I mean, that would have been, that would have been cool also, but actually to, to go in there and make that choice, have it start, you know, not having to walk in and miss anything.

00:37:45.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:46.71
Bill
And then to have it actually be a good movie.

00:37:47.01
Mike
Right.

00:37:49.11
Bill
That's, I mean, that's, that's a win.

00:37:49.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:51.05
Bill
Yeah.

00:37:51.38
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:37:53.56
Bill
Yeah, I mean, i went i went I went out to a hiking trail and in this, and literally, probably I'm sure it was 90-plus degrees when I was out there, but this this first trail that I went to, and I went up to lower Michigan, that's what I've been doing.

00:38:04.14
Bill
And what I did, because it's supposed to, there's a chance of, and it rained a little bit before, after, i don't know, about an hour before we started doing this, but there's a chance of rain.

00:38:04.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:10.86
Mike
Right.

00:38:13.62
Bill
I mean, every every day this weekend, you know, between Friday and Sunday, and I mean, not just rain, but like severe thunderstorms.

00:38:15.78
Mike
m

00:38:19.19
Mike
Right.

00:38:20.15
Bill
So, and i I think I mentioned on here, but again, just, I use chat GPT for a lot of things, but I use it now for my, for hiking trails, especially like I can narrow down things a little bit more specific.

00:38:27.99
Mike
he

00:38:31.73
Bill
Like right now my, my knee is still, my knee's good, you know, cause I fucked up my knee somehow. And I mean bad to the point where like a week or so ago, I was really, I was concerned cause it was taking a couple of weeks and I'm like,

00:38:35.97
Mike
Right.

00:38:41.69
Mike
m

00:38:42.30
Bill
What the fuck, man? You know, it's like the one thing that I enjoy to do and I'm not gonna be able to do that, you know?

00:38:46.42
Mike
Right.

00:38:47.13
Bill
But I mean, it's healing back. It's still a little soreness, blah, blah, blah. But so I can narrow down my hiking trails. I'm like, I'm looking for, I'm not looking for hiking trails with elevation. I'm looking for shorter trails.

00:38:57.93
Bill
I don't mind to, you know, buy a mile and a half trail. And I need it to be a walking trail, not with a lot of elevation. So it pinpoints that.

00:39:03.57
Mike
Right.

00:39:04.45
Bill
But then I have it also look for weather patterns. I'm like, okay, so give me an idea within an hour radius of here, where do i have the best chance of going and when, you know, to miss this storm?

00:39:07.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:13.36
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:39:15.32
Bill
Or storms. So, you know, that's what I did. So the first trail I pull up on and it's off this, this road kind of out in the middle of nowhere ish, but still homes around really small parking lot. Probably no bigger than this between your living room and your dining room area towards your bathroom and about that deep.

00:39:29.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:31.46
Bill
That's it, you know, for probably five, six cars right off the road. And I pull up and I looked at so many different trails and somebody's talking about overgrown this and overgrown that. and I looked at i'm like beginning of the trailhead, looks a little overgrown. I'm like, ah, maybe it's just that part.

00:39:45.62
Bill
ah Bug spray the whole bit up and I go walking in there and I get, i don't even get, I'm probably 50 feet in. And there's a, there's this, I mean, a tree completely across the path. I mean, complete.

00:39:55.49
Mike
Right.

00:39:57.14
Bill
And I mean, you know, to the point where leaves are dried up and it's been down for a while. so i was able to walk around it and then like it's all overgrown and i got flies and shit. Well, I'm like, I, I'm not doing this.

00:40:09.11
Bill
So I back went back to a place that I went to like an a month and a half ago and then, you know, did actually did a little over a couple of miles.

00:40:12.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:15.81
Bill
I mean, flat, you know, so my knee's good and whatever, but, um, same thing, just, it must be that area. Um, I don't know what the hell is going on. If it's some of the, the moisture and stuff that's still around, whatever, you know, that, that area had to happen on one trail a couple of months ago, maybe a month, probably same thing a little month or so ago.

00:40:31.67
Bill
Um, but the entire, know, I'm out there for probably an hour, the entire time with very few exceptions to get, you know, fucking flies over the goddamn place.

00:40:32.01
Mike
Right.

00:40:39.26
Mike
Right. Right.

00:40:40.01
Bill
I'm not getting bit, you know? Um, but I'm like, this is so fucking annoying and I'm sweating my fucking nuts off, but I'm like, I don't care. I'm outside. I'm outside where I want to be and it's all good and I'm fine.

00:40:48.34
Mike
right

00:40:49.94
Bill
And these flies just leave me the fuck alone though. I just so mad, you know, but I mean the, oh, and I look it up while I'm out there. What do you do to keep fucking flies off you? First of all, they like dark clothing.

00:40:59.61
Mike
with

00:41:00.75
Bill
I'm wearing a dark blue shirt. I'm like, okay.

00:41:01.90
Mike
Sure.

00:41:03.09
Bill
Then they're like, they, they like to go after the back of your head. You know, usually, especially if your hair is dark, I'm like, well, there's that. And then, you know, it's telling me we're light clothing and we're a fucking hat that covers it.

00:41:13.25
Bill
I'm like, Oh my God, Jesus Christ. But, you know, whatever. Again, these these problems that we have to deal with today, right?

00:41:19.55
Mike
ah Exactly.

00:41:20.33
Bill
I get i got flies buzzing around me.

00:41:20.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:23.54
Bill
is Is that really the biggest thing got to worry about today?

00:41:23.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:41:25.74
Bill
Fucking flies? Is that is that it? Is that honestly it?

00:41:27.44
Mike
yes is

00:41:28.76
Bill
So, but anyhow, so what's the name of the movie again? Say that again.

00:41:31.09
Mike
ah Disclosure Day.

00:41:32.82
Bill
Okay, so, i and I had heard of it. and it does So, and again, I mean, Spielberg, how can you fucking go wrong, you think?

00:41:38.05
Mike
Right?

00:41:38.22
Bill
But that's good. That's really, really good.

00:41:39.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, it was cool.

00:41:41.72
Bill
Cool.

00:41:42.17
Mike
I liked it.

00:41:42.39
Bill
So, so um did you hear that the, the original big book manuscript was up for auction?

00:41:49.07
Mike
I did. I saw that.

00:41:50.78
Bill
So to begin with, and I wrote this down whenever it first went up for auction. Hang on one second. I want to look this up again because

00:41:57.47
Mike
Yeah, well it was the guy that owned the Colts, right?

00:42:00.82
Bill
yeah, whatever that dude.

00:42:02.13
Mike
Yeah, I forget. Illich or something, I believe. i read the article.

00:42:05.69
Bill
Sure. and So did I.

00:42:06.57
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:42:07.58
Bill
So did I.

00:42:07.63
Mike
Yeah. And and he like he he was a collector. He collected like tons of shit, like memorabilia and all kinds of stuff from all over the place. And apparently he was one of us. Yeah.

00:42:18.01
Bill
Yes. See, and I didn't know that because he had a Jim or say, you're right. I R S A Y.

00:42:20.80
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:21.65
Bill
I'm looking it up right now.

00:42:21.99
Mike
There you go. Illich is the Little Caesars dude, Tigers.

00:42:22.73
Bill
Yeah.

00:42:26.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:27.00
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:42:27.34
Mike
Anyway, but yeah, sports guy, millionaire, billionaire, whatever. Yeah, same thing. And he died a few years ago, and his daughter's been auctioning his his collection.

00:42:33.34
Bill
Oh,

00:42:37.11
Mike
um i mean, he likes guitars.

00:42:37.34
Bill
right.

00:42:39.11
Mike
I think he had like a Grateful Dead guitar and that just sold recently and all this shit.

00:42:42.39
Bill
yeah Right.

00:42:43.72
Mike
and Yeah, you know he collected shit. yeah I can relate to that. um You know, it's I'm just on a very smaller scale.

00:42:50.55
Bill
Right.

00:42:50.57
Mike
But yeah, I guess like the last thing in his collection that they were auctioning off was his original manuscript of the big book that he bought years ago.

00:42:59.38
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, um hang on one second. Sorry about that.

00:43:02.59
Mike
hmm.

00:43:02.94
Bill
I felt like I was going to cough and I wanted to if I had to mute. So I and same deal. I heard it. i read the article and I'm like, I didn't know that it was owned by a private individual. That's number one.

00:43:13.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:13.57
Bill
So that kind of surprised me.

00:43:13.84
Mike
Right. Well, he bought it at auction like 10 years ago or something. Yeah.

00:43:18.84
Bill
Right. Which was that part in all these things I didn't know.

00:43:19.49
Mike
You know?

00:43:21.56
Bill
I'm like, should this original manuscript, and that's the reason I wrote it down to begin with, was to have this original conversation was, how do you feel about this original manuscript just being, you know, I mean, it's kind of like Dr.

00:43:27.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:31.65
Bill
Bob's house. We know it it bounced around in different things, you know, from fucking bikers to frat boys, you know, to, to back where it's, it's in its rightful place now.

00:43:32.49
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:43:40.93
Bill
But that was my thought. I'm like, you know, that, why isn't it, why, why doesn't somebody step up or didn't they?

00:43:44.76
Mike
Right. Why is it in Akron? Right.

00:43:46.97
Bill
Correct. Yeah. Why isn't that? So I just saw the update yesterday or the day before.

00:43:53.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:53.90
Bill
So it's sold on July 1st.

00:43:55.97
Mike
Okay.

00:43:56.86
Bill
So two days ago now to the Stepping Stones Foundation.

00:43:57.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:01.24
Mike
Ah, cool.

00:44:01.54
Bill
OK, so it is it's back where it belongs, you know.

00:44:04.38
Mike
wow Yeah.

00:44:05.91
Bill
And yeah.

00:44:05.99
Mike
Yeah. Bill's house.

00:44:07.66
Bill
And I was just like, that's so fucking cool. But you know you know what it's sold for?

00:44:10.36
Mike
That is. A million. Yeah, right. million and a half.

00:44:15.87
Bill
2.2.39.

00:44:16.22
Mike
Oh, two?

00:44:16.91
Bill
Really?

00:44:17.59
Mike
Oh, okay. they were They were talking. The article I read was from a couple weeks ago, and they thought it was going be like a million and a half.

00:44:23.96
Bill
really i didn't, I don't, I didn't remember that, but I'm like, I'm like, Jesus Christ. And, and once again, you know, that, that we, we know that, you know, obviously Alcoholics Anonymous cannot own property, cannot own things or anything like that.

00:44:33.17
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:44:34.84
Bill
You know, so these are all, you know, obviously I'm private donors, I'm sure.

00:44:38.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:38.24
Bill
i mean, I don't know how all this stuff works, but it's a, it's a foundation, you know, they,

00:44:38.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:41.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:42.17
Bill
somebody pulled a bunch of people, pulled a, you know, a bunch of money in, you know, somehow, some way came up with fucking 2.39 million.

00:44:45.20
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:49.86
Bill
But, um, I was, I was really, I'm like, okay, good.

00:44:50.20
Mike
Yup.

00:44:52.94
Bill
You know, so i'm like, well, I'm still, I still kept it on of the list.

00:44:53.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:55.30
Bill
Cause I figured it'd be worth that.

00:44:56.93
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

00:44:57.11
Bill
At least that part of the conversation. But, yeah when i first heard it i'm like that's why i wanted to talk about it because i wanted to get your opinion on what you felt about this just out there fucking floating around in some you know goddamn sports team owner's basement you know and i didn't i didn't know that i mean again what am i going to do about it even yeah yeah god damn it this gym motherfucker what you know go protest his house

00:45:06.67
Mike
Right.

00:45:09.19
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:45:12.94
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right. Powerless man. Right.

00:45:21.22
Mike
But yeah, but apparently he was one of us. He had had problems with substances and so it did mean something to him. So yeah.

00:45:27.22
Bill
Right. ye And i and i don't I don't even think I caught that from the original article. I think I just skimmed skimmed the article and i didn't remember why the guy even had it.

00:45:31.30
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:45:36.06
Bill
But I mean, all those pieces now, imagine all these pieces, this puzzle being put together, you know ah make it make a little bit more sense.

00:45:38.57
Mike
Hmm.

00:45:42.30
Mike
Right.

00:45:43.02
Bill
But yeah, I'm just, I'm glad that, I don't know, that's that's kind of a big deal. You know, the original manuscripts, I mean, i mean come on.

00:45:48.07
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:45:50.64
Bill
Yeah.

00:45:50.97
Mike
Yeah, right. With his handwritten notes and the margins and stuff, right?

00:45:53.24
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, it it's back to where it should be.

00:45:55.44
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:57.79
Bill
And, you know i mean, I'm thankful that, you know, obviously this foundation had the, had the cash to be able to, to bring it back, bring it back home as they say.

00:45:58.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:03.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yes.

00:46:06.39
Bill
So on, on that note, since I said something powerful and poignant, didn't I bring it back home?

00:46:06.72
Mike
Cool.

00:46:10.82
Mike
Sure. Sure.

00:46:13.44
Bill
don't know. Take a, take a break. Should we?

00:46:14.55
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:46:14.66
Bill
Should we?

00:46:15.47
Mike
So i'm I'm trying to get past the powerful and poignant. ah We'll be back with more powerful and poignant observations right after these words from our sponsors.

00:46:36.54
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. i mean, shouldn't that kind of be our tagline? Poignant and powerful.

00:46:42.01
Mike
No, I don't think so. i was going to say we came back. Yeah, we're back with more of this bullshit nonsense.

00:46:49.66
Bill
Yeah, that's that line's that lines up. that as As the kids say, that that tracks a little bit better. but

00:46:55.07
Mike
The kids.

00:46:55.77
Bill
So, um yeah, the kids the kids say that.

00:46:58.24
Mike
ah I see.

00:46:58.68
Bill
That's more of a, you know, it it tracks is more of a, I just say it every once in while to fuck around because it's not, it doesn't really fit me when, you know, saying it it tracks.

00:47:05.13
Mike
be

00:47:06.36
Bill
But it it fits to a certain extent, but not not really. It doesn't really fit. You know, there there are, and I wrote this down at some point. I don't even know if I have it here. It doesn't even matter. But there are some some things like that, some of these sayings and words, you know, that that bother me.

00:47:18.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:19.32
Bill
And one of the ones kind of, I guess, well, now's a goddamn good time to bitch about a podcast or two. So let's, let's complain about words first.

00:47:24.22
Mike
All right, let's do it. you Cool.

00:47:28.50
Bill
So when ah ah you and I've already talked about the fact that the crutch words, you know, and you know, is one of them. Um, is one of them. These are the ones that have been around since the, the dawn of conversation, I think.

00:47:37.61
Mike
Sure.

00:47:41.08
Bill
And I was always very familiar with it.

00:47:41.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:43.51
Bill
I tried to get it out of my vocabulary. I've listened to some episodes when it's worse you know than others. But I don't know. You and I are just shooting shit. That's why think about it as much. If it were a...

00:47:53.24
Mike
Sure.

00:47:53.61
Bill
Well, and and here we go. If this were a professional circumstance...

00:47:56.97
Mike
Right. This is strictly amateur Mm-hmm.

00:47:57.72
Bill
i I literally was just going to say, if I was in a professional circumstance...

00:47:58.30
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:48:01.22
Mike
right thiss a strictly amateur hour

00:48:04.12
Bill
Which... Yeah, it fucking is. i Again, people who listen to us, thank you. I i still don't fucking get it.

00:48:09.94
Mike
chi creature

00:48:11.14
Bill
I just i just i just don't.

00:48:11.57
Mike
o

00:48:12.82
Bill
But you know we're we're really we're really thankful. We really are. um But the the word that – there's a few of them. But the one that really gets to me is people use the word right all the time.

00:48:20.09
Mike
ah ha

00:48:25.46
Bill
And umm get i'm just I'm guessing that you don't have to deal with this as much in your line of work because you're not –

00:48:26.24
Mike
Right.

00:48:31.90
Mike
but i don't I don't talk to very many people.

00:48:34.36
Bill
Well, they but that's number one. That it is, that's number one.

00:48:38.55
Mike
It's a big part of my career choice.

00:48:41.40
Bill
But, but you're not, you're also not dealing with a bunch of, you know, corporate bullshit, you know, um, which I'm not either.

00:48:41.90
Mike
feet Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:46.68
Bill
Thankfully the company that I work for people don't use this in this circumstance all the time. But so for instance, I'll give you an example. So we were just talking about the big book and the way that conversation,

00:48:55.84
Mike
Right. yeah

00:48:57.62
Bill
that That conversation would have went, or the original manuscript, it would have went, so you saw that article, right, about the big book, right?

00:49:00.80
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:49:04.26
Bill
And the fact that the manuscript's on sale, right? And it's in this guy's hand, right?

00:49:06.63
Mike
ahha

00:49:08.09
Bill
And I don't really understand why it's in his hands. It should be with stepping stones, right? And I keep talking to the guy, and I'm talking to him, and he's saying it's for sale, and I'm talking to his daughter, right?

00:49:13.42
Mike
Right.

00:49:18.43
Bill
And then she says something that's really poignant, right?

00:49:19.69
Mike
Hmm.

00:49:20.72
Bill
And people, and I know that that that sounds over-exaggerated,

00:49:24.92
Mike
m

00:49:25.74
Bill
It's, it's fucking not.

00:49:27.13
Mike
Right.

00:49:27.93
Bill
i listen.

00:49:28.82
Mike
yeah I know. say I'm not going to be self-conscious about it because I know I use it when I'm agreeing with you.

00:49:33.96
Bill
Well, so you, you do, that's a different story.

00:49:34.90
Mike
I agree, Bill. exactly

00:49:38.54
Bill
So you, you're doing it on, you're,

00:49:38.82
Mike
Right. Goddamn. Killing me. Now now i'm fucking conscious of it. Go ahead, man.

00:49:44.15
Bill
No, no, no.

00:49:44.22
Mike
You talk.

00:49:45.14
Bill
You're doing it on the on on an affirmative type of thing on the other example.

00:49:45.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:49.18
Bill
What I'm doing is I'm having this one-person conversation with two-person statements, okay?

00:49:55.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:56.41
Bill
dig just said, okay, is another one when people do that.

00:49:58.47
Mike
e

00:49:58.85
Bill
that's a that when you're The way that I was taught with those type of statements in a training session is you're supposed to use those every once in a while to draw people in, but you're supposed to pause and get a response, okay?

00:50:04.09
Mike
you

00:50:10.84
Bill
So like you just did, because I paused and got your response.

00:50:10.89
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:13.22
Mike
Sure.

00:50:14.28
Bill
Now, if I'm saying something, I just heard that the guy, you know, that owned whatever team it had the big book, right now at that.

00:50:20.82
Mike
Agree with me.

00:50:22.39
Bill
Yeah.

00:50:22.47
Mike
Agree with me, God damn it.

00:50:22.59
Bill
Now you're correct.

00:50:23.94
Mike
Agree with me, right?

00:50:25.74
Bill
Yeah. Okay. But if it's overused, nobody's responding because it's not in the right place. And the other thing with the right part where I use it all the time and we've come into into this habit and how we do our podcast is I talk a lot, which we all know. And sometimes, you know, we've we've talked about You and I jumping over each other.

00:50:45.61
Bill
That's one of those separation words that I use all the time with you. So you can pick up that  cue that I'm done running this fucking mouth of mine, you know, and, and cause I'll do that.

00:50:54.42
Mike
Right?

00:50:58.25
Bill
i'm like, well, that's what they meant. Right.

00:51:00.24
Mike
Yeah,

00:51:00.60
Bill
But I'm genuinely looking for your input. Right.

00:51:03.38
Mike
yeah exactly.

00:51:03.96
Bill
So listen to, I hear it on podcasts all the time. I hear it mainly it's podcasts because I listen to a lot of podcasts and it drives me fucking nuts.

00:51:10.36
Mike
hmm.

00:51:11.89
Bill
If you're one of those people that does that all the time, and yeah, I'm talking to people out there to listen to us, stop it. it's It's fucking stupid and it's annoying.

00:51:18.34
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:51:19.92
Bill
And if you do it in a story on a podcast, you're, There have been times when, and I'm not fucking kidding, I've shut it off because i can't, and it's a good story.

00:51:28.12
Mike
hmm.

00:51:29.72
Bill
I shut it off because I can't fucking stand it.

00:51:30.19
Mike
sure

00:51:32.08
Bill
The same way that people shut off, and we know it, people shut off our episodes that the audio is fucked. That's why we're so particular with people with their audio. So we don't want to take away from that sort of thing.

00:51:43.13
Bill
So, you know, it's words like right, then people talk about doing things in a certain lens and all these other fucking things. You know, all these little terms that i that I'm like, just say it this way.

00:51:48.69
Mike
Yeah. Well, yeah.

00:51:51.93
Bill
but

00:51:52.53
Mike
I mean, yeah well and it's the same thing, but yeah when they say, you know, And it's like, well, if I fucking knew, i wouldn't i wouldn't be listening to you.

00:51:57.46
Bill
right

00:52:00.69
Mike
and I wouldn't need to. I already knew. Yeah, right.

00:52:03.51
Bill
right

00:52:04.17
Mike
Exactly. yeah Don't folks fuck, you know? Well, no if If I already knew, i wouldn't have to bother listening to you.

00:52:13.53
Bill
Yeah, and that is that's one of my crutch words, you know, is one of my crutch words.

00:52:16.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:18.05
Bill
And you you may you may pick up on it now, you know obviously, now that now that we've talked about it.

00:52:21.01
Mike
Okay.

00:52:22.69
Bill
But it's it's a, I just can't, I can't fucking stand people overword, overword, overuse these words all the time.

00:52:31.22
Mike
the

00:52:31.91
Bill
And it just, it gets so, it gets so fucking, it's, it is really, really fucking hard to listen to.

00:52:38.53
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:39.50
Bill
It's really hard to listen to.

00:52:39.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:40.46
Bill
Oh, I just found, and I was kind of scanning down to figure out where, where I wrote this down. God, this was a long time. This has been apparently sticking in my craw for a long time.

00:52:45.97
Mike
Nice. Mm-hmm. he he

00:52:49.19
Bill
i had to go back to, then listen, this is the bottom of page three of my shit.

00:52:52.51
Mike
nice

00:52:52.71
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ. But so the other one, you know what it means when something resonates with somebody, right?

00:52:59.99
Mike
this is

00:53:01.05
Bill
Okay, so that's a great word. you know my Mike, this this will probably resonate with you.

00:53:02.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:04.33
Bill
Let me tell you this story, right?

00:53:05.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:53:06.33
Bill
I just did it again. I'm sorry, everyone. So people say resonate with a G.

00:53:14.17
Mike
oof yeah

00:53:15.78
Bill
You've heard that, haven't you?

00:53:16.76
Mike
i died yeah i think i blacked it out

00:53:21.27
Bill
but And I've heard, once again, there you go.

00:53:22.94
Mike
i heard it the library

00:53:25.94
Bill
i They read something at the library that would resonate with them. And these are podcasts. These are popular podcasts that I listen to that I've heard the host and the and the person that's telling their story say it multiple times.

00:53:39.38
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:40.86
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ, resonate?

00:53:43.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:44.90
Bill
Really?

00:53:45.07
Mike
Right. Well, that's important.

00:53:47.70
Bill
yeah Exactly.

00:53:48.47
Mike
a

00:53:48.82
Bill
Where, where's the fucking t

00:53:50.94
Mike
Yep.

00:53:53.43
Bill
okay i I just don't even know. Oh, last one. And this is the other one I wrote down the word essentially.

00:54:00.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:01.11
Bill
And I mean, we know what essentially means, right?

00:54:03.01
Mike
Sure. It's essential.

00:54:03.40
Bill
I mean, correct. Yeah. Well, it's essentially is, you know, kind of like, this is sort of like, you know, it's not saying this is a, it either is or it isn't.

00:54:10.24
Mike
Mm-hmm. It has the essence of...

00:54:12.37
Bill
It's, Thank you. The essence of that's a great that's a great way to put it.

00:54:14.65
Mike
Yes.

00:54:16.45
Bill
So there are people that will say, well, the big book essentially is back home.

00:54:16.63
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:21.34
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:54:23.16
Bill
No, it's not.

00:54:23.38
Mike
No. Right. Basically.

00:54:25.85
Bill
It is back home.

00:54:26.47
Mike
yeah Exactly.

00:54:28.70
Bill
So I have no problem with the word essentially if you use it right, but there are so many people out there that, so essentially what we're doing is, and they'll say something that they actually did.

00:54:33.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:38.74
Bill
I'm like, no, you're not essentially doing it. You did it.

00:54:40.76
Mike
Yeah, you did it.

00:54:41.81
Bill
It's, yeah.

00:54:41.88
Mike
It's done. Right.

00:54:44.34
Bill
You know, exactly.

00:54:45.82
Mike
It's basically it's the same thing. Right.

00:54:48.16
Bill
Yeah.

00:54:48.34
Mike
It's basically. No, it's not. Basically, it is.

00:54:52.98
Bill
If it almost is, it's fine. It's fine.

00:54:55.07
Mike
Sure. Right. It could be.

00:54:58.43
Bill
Maybe.

00:55:01.37
Bill
yeah so we were listening to them, and halfway through the episode, all they're doing is saying words and laughing about them.

00:55:06.82
Mike
ah right. Right.

00:55:07.48
Bill
Yeah, that's that's why we're nominated for the best goddamn podcast.

00:55:10.51
Mike
That's right. That's absolutely correct.

00:55:11.67
Bill
This is it.

00:55:13.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:14.84
Bill
So anyhow, I'm glad I got that. I'm glad I got that off my ah my chest because literally, I mean, fucking three pages deep. That was that was kind of crazy. so um

00:55:22.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:23.74
Bill
All right. So this was kind of an odd question, but maybe it it it isn't. And I think it might have to do a little bit with you know with this and the sobriety and sort of thing. Maybe, maybe not. but So as a kid, where did you live that you thought was the most fun?

00:55:40.49
Bill
And I mean, it could be a kid from when you're really young to, you know, in your up here, know, up to 18 years old.

00:55:44.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:46.23
Bill
But where was the place that that you had the most fun and why?

00:55:52.65
Mike
I mean, i I lived in some pretty fun places. i would... I mean... When I lived out in Highland, Michigan, um in between, it was it was almost four years. it was the longest I'd lived anywhere pretty much in my childhood. um Yeah. and ah But it was in between Detroit and moving to California. It was out in Highland, which was semi-rural. It was literally like two blocks away from a lake.

00:56:20.94
Mike
I was like from 10 to 13 years

00:56:25.24
Mike
Um, so it was, it was, it was great as a kid that age, I had woods and I had trails and, but it was in a neighborhood. Um, it was, it was, yeah, it was, it was pretty goddamn good.

00:56:38.47
Mike
So that, that was, you know, it's perfect for the age.

00:56:39.04
Bill
Right.

00:56:40.86
Mike
It was great. I mean, I loved when I lived in Detroit. Um, it was neighborhood, it was kids on the street. We were all out running around like maniacs throwing rocks at each other. um that was like young, young.

00:56:52.26
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:53.69
Bill
Right.

00:56:53.82
Mike
But yeah yeah, wrestling, we'd watch big time wrestling, then go out and beat the shit out of each other on our front lawns.

00:56:54.69
Bill
No, I know. I know.

00:57:00.22
Mike
um Yeah, that was great. You know, high school was cool. Suburban fucking California, whatever. It was goddamn suburbs. I hate them. but um You know, it was fine for the age.

00:57:09.27
Bill
Right.

00:57:11.55
Mike
I mean, I did get lucky in those aspects in my life, my my childhood. um The places I lived at certain points um kind of fit the age fairly well.

00:57:24.42
Mike
So that was that was kind of cool.

00:57:27.45
Bill
Yeah. And you know, the, what made me think of it, and I was trying to figure out, remember what made me think of it, but I know what it was. There was a, um and I can't remember where, where it was or what trail it was, but I was on a trail recently that reminded me of where we lived in Pittsburgh.

00:57:43.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:43.70
Bill
And right, literally right behind our house, there was, that's where the the trail was to go down into these, into these woods and down in this whole gully area and ravine, which there was a ah creek that ran through there.

00:57:53.07
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right?

00:57:57.40
Mike
Right?

00:57:57.53
Bill
And then it emptied into this bigger river. And I mean, it was a, it was access way.

00:58:00.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:04.09
Bill
I mean, we could have, I suppose, you know, mom could have been a dick about it, not had people go through there, but that was where people had to walk through backyard in order to go down down to the woods.

00:58:08.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:12.53
Bill
But wintertime, there was sledding.

00:58:12.63
Mike
Right.

00:58:14.66
Bill
Summertime, there was that. We rode our bikes down there.

00:58:16.97
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:58:17.59
Bill
Everything you were just kind of talking about, you woods and trails and, you know, throwing rocks at each other.

00:58:19.30
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Creeks.

00:58:21.95
Bill
And, oh, and it was, oh, it was it was so it was so fucking great, you know?

00:58:22.07
Mike
and Yeah, well, that was younger in the city, but yeah.

00:58:28.32
Bill
and And I just when you said that being at the right place at the right times age wise, I think we were too.

00:58:32.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:34.51
Bill
You know, we lived in Parma when we were younger, you know, in those little, you know, obviously a neighborhoods like, you know, where, you know, a lot of our well, we know, I mean, Tony and Angel live in, you know, these neighborhoods now and Marty and Michelle do, which they're nice, comfortable, quaint neighborhoods.

00:58:35.34
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:58:44.61
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:58:49.02
Bill
A great, you know, when you're a young kid, you know.

00:58:49.07
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

00:58:50.98
Bill
um And then we moved to Pittsburgh. It was between like age, it had to have been 10 and 9 and 12, roughly in that area.

00:58:59.99
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:59:01.27
Bill
You know, and it was, it was fucking spectacular, you know, but actually Pittsburgh was the, not the first place. I, first time I smoked cigarettes or had, had any alcohol, the drink outside of, you know, taking a sip from a parent was in Parma.

00:59:12.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:13.53
Bill
So I was in fourth grade when the first time I ever had a sip of alcohol or smoked a cigarette.

00:59:16.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:18.26
Bill
And then we did the same thing in Pittsburgh. I mean, we'd we'd smoke cigarettes down there and every once in a while, you know, steal some, I mean, literally like hard alcohol from our parents or whatever, and maybe steal some little beers and that that sort of thing.

00:59:21.66
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:59:26.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:29.62
Bill
But, you know, so we were making forts and tree houses and all this different shit.

00:59:32.59
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:32.90
Bill
it was just, it was, it was great, you know?

00:59:34.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:34.78
Bill
So I was just kind of curious because I didn't know if, I don't know if it was a place like that because I knew, and that was the reason I wanted to ask you too. I knew that you were, you were shuffled around, you know, quite a bit.

00:59:45.03
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:59:45.66
Bill
And I just didn't know if there was a place and that's cool that Michigan though, you it's, but I'm part of the thing where you spent, you actually get to spend some real time there, right?

00:59:45.76
Mike
Right.

00:59:48.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:52.32
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. That was that was the one place we stayed for a while. And yeah it was it was pretty it was like I said, for the age, it was great.

00:59:56.74
Bill
Right.

00:59:59.24
Mike
I mean, the lake down a couple blocks away, White Lake, it was fucking huge. um I mean, to the point where there are I mean, it was huge.

01:00:04.56
Bill
Right.

01:00:07.01
Mike
Um, you know, there was ice fishing in the winter and then regular fishing in the summer. And there was an Island, there was a beach down at the end of the block, a small one, um, with a floating dock out there.

01:00:17.67
Mike
And it was, yeah it was fucking great, man.

01:00:20.38
Bill
Right. Well, yeah. And we used to go when we were in ah in Ohio and when we were in in Pittsburgh. And even we first moved out to Wisconsin, we did with with mom a couple of times. We used to go camping.

01:00:31.20
Bill
So, you know, we would get what what you just described. We would get that every summer because we go camping.

01:00:34.24
Mike
Right.

01:00:35.88
Bill
that was our That was our thing.

01:00:36.45
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:37.64
Bill
That's why I mentioned before, you know, that the traveling I've done over the last couple of years, that I've seen more things than I literally ever saw, more places, you know, that I've ever been in my entire life.

01:00:45.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:47.38
Bill
But I don't look at that as a bad thing. I don't i i don't i don't look back now like, well, Jesus Christ, I never got to do any of this stuff.

01:00:49.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:54.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:54.72
Bill
I'm glad I'm able to do it now because I can appreciate it.

01:00:54.80
Mike
Sure.

01:00:57.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:58.43
Bill
Whereas then would have had no not no appreciation, maybe very small amount of appreciation for some of the things that I that i can see and look at now and really enjoy.

01:01:11.38
Bill
whereas You know, you know, Heidi posted a picture of the moon the other day on Facebook or Instagram.

01:01:15.32
Mike
useful Ah, nice.

01:01:20.10
Bill
One of the two. And I I commented.

01:01:21.26
Mike
I must have missed that.

01:01:21.86
Bill
I'm like, like that fucking moon.

01:01:25.44
Mike
Yep.

01:01:25.94
Bill
But no, I just I was just kind i was just kind of curious. But so that's cool, though. Yeah.

01:01:30.09
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:30.14
Bill
And I mean, I've been spending a little bit of time in, you know, lower part of Michigan.

01:01:33.12
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:33.41
Bill
Cause again, I can't, I don't have the ability right now. um You know, i just, things are expensive and and money's tight.

01:01:39.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:39.66
Bill
So I can't go ahead and travel like I want, which is fine.

01:01:40.34
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:01:43.10
Bill
That's why I'm doing all these little, you know, I'm spending, you know, 10, 20 bucks, maybe if, if that to go someplace and just go fucking walk around and be out, you know, and it's nice, you know, just, it's, it's nice.

01:01:48.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:52.63
Mike
Yep.

01:01:56.62
Bill
It's a, it's a nice little escape. So yeah. all right this is actually um from a podcast and this was from the the sober motivation podcast which you know again i i always mention um i usually don't complain too much or try to bitch about anything that that brad's doing and if i if i have i don't i don't mention his name but um you know the sober motivation podcast i'm a huge fan brad does a good thing um great following they're doing good work over there so

01:02:05.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:10.28
Mike
Uh-huh. ah ha

01:02:22.58
Bill
Once again, we, I'll say we, as say you get lumped into it.

01:02:25.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:26.10
Bill
We highly recommend the Sober Motivation podcast.

01:02:26.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:28.54
Bill
You you guys will enjoy it. um

01:02:30.28
Mike
Right.

01:02:31.45
Bill
But Brad had asked a question of one of the guests that started using when he was young, kind of like we were just talking about that 9, 10 age, whatever the case is.

01:02:36.89
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:02:39.85
Bill
And he asked if he may have started using as a form of control since the rest of his life was so okay, or the rest of his life was ah such a chaotic mess at home.

01:02:50.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:51.01
Bill
So I've never thought about that. So both of us, you and I. started dabbling with, experimenting with whatever you want to call it, you know, with whether it's, you know, cigarettes or alcohol or, you know, possibly drugs on your end, you know, at an earlier age, have you ever thought about that?

01:02:59.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:02.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:03:07.08
Bill
Were you doing that for, for some sort of control or was that something you thought about or could it be?

01:03:12.55
Mike
um i've I've never thought about it.

01:03:12.86
Bill
Right.

01:03:15.69
Mike
um I suppose there was an element to it.

01:03:16.86
Bill
Right.

01:03:18.78
Mike
um Control, escape, ah yeah you know, probably.

01:03:22.02
Bill
Right.

01:03:24.07
Mike
um But again, you know, it it all really comes down to, as I've said on here a million times, I want to fucking feel good. um Yeah, that's that's always. I mean, you know, that's one thing we do on here is we don't overcomplicate all that stuff. You know, I want to fucking feel good because I'm selfish and self-centered. It all comes down to that. And ah yeah, i'm I'm sure, you know, part of feeling good is is having control. Part of feeling good is escaping. part of it's all It's all in there. You know, we can break it all down, it doesn't fucking matter. Just doesn't matter. Yeah.

01:04:01.36
Mike
i see great Bill Murray once said yeah you know um yes I'm sure there's all elements to that to all of it who fucking cares hmm

01:04:05.76
Bill
Right.

01:04:13.19
Bill
Right. No. and And, you know, the the thing that is the only reason, and you're 100% correct, because both of us have that same that same mentality. It's one of the reasons that neither one of us, you know, do therapy right now, because um it's neither one of us has said that, you know, fuck therapists.

01:04:20.53
Mike
yeah mm-hmm no no of course not mm-hmm

01:04:28.28
Bill
We, you know, they they don't do good work or anything like that, you know, but when when things are okay right now, which they are, I mean, there's still, there's struggles and we we talk about it, you know, it's life is life, you know.

01:04:34.28
Mike
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

01:04:38.92
Bill
But in a general sense that the pond is is smooth as glass right now, I don't want to cause any fucking ripples, you know?

01:04:42.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:46.01
Mike
Yep.

01:04:46.87
Bill
But what i never when when I hear some of these little things like that, and I'm not looking for, I know you know that, I'm not looking for, wait, wait.

01:04:50.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:56.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:56.64
Bill
That's why I drank, you know, that's not what it was.

01:04:57.88
Mike
aha

01:04:59.28
Bill
But I mean, knowing what a fucking control freak that I even still can be to this day and was even worse while I was actively drinking.

01:05:02.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:07.36
Bill
I'm like, shit, was I that little fucking control freak back then, too?

01:05:11.74
Mike
Sure.

01:05:12.02
Bill
I mean, once once I got buzzed, I was like, yeah, same thing.

01:05:12.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:14.94
Bill
You know, it's like whether it was that like taking that first drag ever, of that cigarette, when you finally inhaled, you're like,

01:05:19.51
Mike
he it is

01:05:21.34
Bill
Oh, in the same thing when he gets so you know a good shot of booze in you and you're like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck is this?

01:05:22.49
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:26.38
Mike
out

01:05:28.14
Bill
You know?

01:05:28.47
Mike
yeah

01:05:29.55
Bill
But I just, I never, like you just said, I never thought about whether or not I had, um, it'd be interesting to me just to to think, you know, it's interesting to me to think back and like, Jesus Christ, was I, was I actually a control freak back then too?

01:05:42.28
Bill
You know?

01:05:42.67
Mike
I'm sure you were.

01:05:44.02
Bill
Yeah. Well, and, and I know that, uh, you know, and again, I, I didn't grow up an abusive household. Just mom was mom was mom. Dad was dad. They, uh, my dad was a huge controller, you know, control freak.

01:05:52.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:56.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:56.20
Bill
Um, and mom even too. I mean, everything was, you know, she was, she was very, she was very rigid even to the, uh, you know, in, in her, well, in, in the times that you knew her, you know, in the, in her, even in a more recent days, she wasn't the one that, uh, you know, Hey, you want to bend on this a little bit, mom?

01:06:02.38
Mike
She was. Mm-hmm.

01:06:08.55
Mike
Right.

01:06:12.13
Bill
Yeah. i'm I'm laughing just thinking about asking questions.

01:06:15.43
Mike
Yeah. but And I mean, you know, did to an extent, I'm still that way. You know, I mean, yeah, it's place for everything and everything in its place.

01:06:20.44
Bill
ah Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:06:23.26
Mike
I, you know, I i like my life to be ordered.

01:06:24.06
Bill
right

01:06:26.82
Mike
It's, you know, yes, it is all the control shit and all that. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm just, again, turning it around and making it a positive thing. You know, my house is clean. My house is neat. My house is whatever, you know, but But that yeah, it's it's a control thing.

01:06:41.36
Mike
I know it is. i don't give a fuck.

01:06:43.04
Bill
right right

01:06:43.19
Mike
you know i like why I like things to be where they're supposed to be. you know You've had the the sponge on the kitchen sink.

01:06:48.00
Bill
right

01:06:50.97
Mike
I like it a certain way. And you fucked with me over that. And that's fine.

01:06:55.45
Bill
yeah Yeah. Well, two things. that the The funniest part to begin with is that when and that was the first time that i that I had stayed there for that extended period of time.

01:07:01.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:05.97
Bill
so I mean, obviously i've been at your house a number of times overnight or whatever, weekends.

01:07:07.70
Mike
Sure. is

01:07:09.85
Bill
but um And it's just I didn't know to begin with. I'm like, is that did I? You know, cause what what happened was is that I instinctively i yeah used it, but I instinctively put it back.

01:07:17.69
Mike
You used it.

01:07:21.91
Bill
However, I would normally do something like that, you know.

01:07:23.38
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

01:07:24.67
Bill
And then um then I looked at it when I came back and I'm like, was it that way?

01:07:28.36
Mike
Yes. Yes. Right.

01:07:29.36
Bill
Because you put it vertical. Am I correct?

01:07:30.57
Mike
yes

01:07:30.92
Bill
We talked about this. Okay.

01:07:31.86
Mike
yes

01:07:32.20
Bill
So, and I had it, I had it horizontal.

01:07:34.86
Mike
right

01:07:35.22
Bill
And, and I'm like, I want, does he put it? did Did I, so I'm like, you know, I'm going to move it.

01:07:38.86
Mike
he

01:07:42.26
Bill
And then then i came back.

01:07:42.24
Mike
All right, of course.

01:07:44.22
Bill
I'm like, okay, that's his thing, which I didn't fucking know.

01:07:45.34
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

01:07:47.86
Bill
So then, yeah, I fucked with you for a couple of days and then, then told you about And you said, you're like, I didn't even know.

01:07:49.13
Mike
Of course.

01:07:52.78
Bill
He goes, I just, I instinctively put it back the way it should be.

01:07:54.74
Mike
well don't do it Yeah, the way I want it to be. yeah Whatever.

01:07:59.00
Bill
Yeah. Which is the greatest thing.

01:07:59.97
Mike
yeah the The way exactly. you know and it's it's it's not I have done enough work on myself. It's not the right way. It's not the wrong way. It's just that's what i the way I do it.

01:08:11.38
Mike
And i'm going and and because i am regimented in quite a lot of things in my life today, you know considering I wasn't for a very long time out of control and willy-nilly and haphazard and in most of the things I did, um yes, I do things in a particular way today.

01:08:11.67
Bill
Right.

01:08:31.07
Mike
Again, not right, not wrong, just the way it is for me. And and yeah, fuck it. That's why I have a house to myself. I live by myself. I do what I do.

01:08:41.64
Mike
because, it again, it makes me happy, makes me comfortable, makes me whatever. We're all trying to be comfortable.

01:08:48.39
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:08:49.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:49.41
Bill
And I mean, we've talked about that before. I'm the same way. I mean, you, you and I are are literally no different in, in that, in that way.

01:08:51.66
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:55.22
Bill
I don't think we have any different level. If you had to put a number, like on a scale, I think we're at the same level, you know, the same, the same volume, if you want to put it that way.

01:09:00.93
Mike
Yeah, right. We're both solid sevens.

01:09:04.34
Bill
Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know what the volume level is, but we're we're both there.

01:09:04.95
Mike
All right.

01:09:08.78
Bill
Maybe different things, but we're both we're both at that same level.

01:09:10.38
Mike
Uh-huh. Yes, exactly.

01:09:13.34
Bill
So um here's another one that came up from ah podcast. I don't remember this. but This could have been Brad's podcast also, but this I thought was kind of interesting, and I wanted to get your opinion. So the guy was talking about the fact that he, or or I'm sorry, talking about how his drinking had progressed. And he said he didn't have, and this is this was how he put it,

01:09:33.56
Bill
He didn't have a problem until his late 20s because that's when he started daily drinking.

01:09:33.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:39.51
Bill
OK, so set that aside for a minute.

01:09:39.81
Mike
Mm, okay. Yeah.

01:09:42.71
Bill
Prior to that, it was just binge drinking, but it was extreme.

01:09:45.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:09:46.61
Bill
OK, so, you know, obviously drink till you till you can't drink anymore, blah, blah, blah.

01:09:46.66
Mike
Yeah, right?

01:09:50.77
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:51.61
Bill
Did you, and my question is, did you ever have like a similar feeling or similar mindset?

01:09:52.82
Mike
Mm.

01:09:56.06
Bill
What I'm talking about is that, so binge drinking is not a problem, but daily drinking is regardless of the level.

01:10:00.40
Mike
Mm.

01:10:02.97
Bill
Do you, did you ever make that distinction or even do you now, if somebody came to you with that, with that type of circumstance?

01:10:09.07
Mike
um i I mean, I, you know, I never made distinction. um You know, ah yeah, right. I mean, drink it until you can't anymore.

01:10:19.34
Mike
You run out or whatever. That was always the way it was. um

01:10:23.51
Bill
Yeah. Okay.

01:10:24.26
Mike
Yeah, you know, yeah.

01:10:24.55
Bill
good Good point. Good point.

01:10:26.02
Mike
i You know, i yeah, drink as much as you can for as long as you can.

01:10:27.03
Bill
okay

01:10:31.18
Mike
um to Yeah, the timeframes never fucking mattered. Uh, you know, and, and I've talked about on here, I was never a maintenance drinker cause I never could be.

01:10:35.97
Bill
Right.

01:10:40.85
Mike
I, uh, there are points where I would have loved to have been a maintenance drinker.

01:10:41.30
Bill
Right.

01:10:44.61
Mike
Um, you know, get, get that golden buzz and maintain it throughout the day. of could I never could, that's not my makeup. Um, yeah. So it was always drink as much as I can.

01:10:56.98
Mike
For as long as I can. And, you know, they great sometimes it was it was set up is binging because i didn't have the resources or the determination to keep that going.

01:11:12.06
Mike
um And, you know, then sometimes it was it was just always as much as long. and Yeah, it always was. So, you know, I don't make that distinction.

01:11:19.90
Bill
Right.

01:11:21.81
Mike
I understand how some people do. um i was, you know, foot to the floor from the beginning.

01:11:28.80
Bill
Right. You know, in in and here's the thing. And I just, I think ah we, i don't want to say uncovered, but I think I just realized something. And I know the thing, we've talked about the maintenance, because I was, I mean, towards towards the end, especially, and whoever, who knows how how long I did it.

01:11:40.11
Mike
Right.

01:11:43.70
Bill
But um I needed to to do that to make, from the time I got up to the time I went to bed, And I was working at ah around my jobs, you know, which is lovely.

01:11:46.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:52.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:53.51
Bill
Again, like you say, great way to live.

01:11:53.56
Mike
a Yeah.

01:11:55.39
Bill
Right. um But, you know, you I could tell by whatever time, you know, it's lunchtime, it's whatever. And I started to come I started to come down off of this shit.

01:12:00.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:02.51
Bill
And I'm like, yeah, I don't that's I don't like this.

01:12:02.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:04.19
Bill
I got to get something to drink. um

01:12:05.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:07.42
Bill
But I think that maybe I wonder if so. There's there's a clear distinction between you and I as far as how we drank. You know, we drank to the same extent to a certain point.

01:12:14.31
Mike
okay

01:12:16.70
Bill
But again, you were balls to the wall always.

01:12:17.16
Mike
Sure.

01:12:19.10
Bill
I was. But I also did this, this maintenance thing.

01:12:21.76
Mike
e

01:12:22.18
Bill
So I wonder if that's why this clicked with me more than maybe a click with you, because I did that, you know, but the thing of it is, and even if this was a like a, maybe that's why I'm like, I just, I, I kind of shot this theory out ah completely up is because that I never thought about it until now.

01:12:26.60
Mike
Sure. he

01:12:40.90
Bill
You know, I didn't think about it while I was drinking it.

01:12:41.18
Mike
okay

01:12:43.42
Bill
Oh,

01:12:43.68
Mike
sure

01:12:45.10
Bill
You're no longer just binge drinking. You're daily drinking.

01:12:47.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:47.18
Bill
Now you have a problem.

01:12:47.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:48.10
Bill
I never, I never acknowledged the fact that I had a problem regardless how I fucking drank.

01:12:48.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:52.82
Bill
And looking back on it now, it's kind of fucking pointless, but it was just a curiosity question. If you ever, in and I, I don't want to say I should have known better, but what you just said makes perfect sense that no, you wouldn't have had a distinction because that's not how you drank.

01:13:02.86
Mike
is

01:13:06.05
Mike
Right. Yeah. Oh, I, again, i couldn't. Right.

01:13:09.50
Bill
Right.

01:13:09.57
Mike
I mean, there there were times where I tried and it was fucking miserable, but I mean, yeah.

01:13:09.82
Bill
yeah

01:13:12.43
Bill
Yeah. Right.

01:13:14.14
Mike
And, and, um, so, you know, I would, whatever, I had to go to work, especially towards the end, um, you know, I, I, I'd start off with half a tank from the night before, was still in my system.

01:13:26.58
Bill
Right.

01:13:30.27
Mike
um yeah and i'd just I'd fucking slowly you know fall apart by the end of the day. I was, you know again, miserable and shaking and sick and yeah you fun, but that's that's how I had to do it um because I couldn't do it any other way.

01:13:46.30
Mike
you know if i If I woke up in the morning and I took a couple pops to get myself out the door, i wouldn't have gotten out the door.

01:13:56.50
Bill
Yeah. And I just, I just did the, I'm like, I did it and I still went out the door like that.

01:14:00.85
Mike
Right.

01:14:00.94
Bill
So as it makes me laugh every time when you say you still got a half in the tank, which is, yeah it's just, it's kind of funny to me, but I mean, I get it.

01:14:03.85
Mike
innocent Yeah, well, I did. it Yeah. Uh-huh.

01:14:11.10
Bill
I know exactly what you're talking about, but it didn't matter whether I had a half a tank or a quarter of a tank.

01:14:12.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:15.57
Mike
issues

01:14:15.78
Bill
I was still putting little bit more. I was topping off top that top that shit off at in the morning.

01:14:17.35
Mike
ah Right. Uh-huh.

01:14:20.94
Bill
um Which again, you know, I said, we laugh at this stuff because it is, but back to your point, you know what ah what a, What a great way to live.

01:14:27.01
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Good times.

01:14:29.21
Bill
Just a good times. Yeah. All right. So um two things. I got a couple of funny things. If we got a minute, I'll i'll tell you about it that.

01:14:36.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:37.62
Bill
But so the the other one, though, the the podcast thing. OK, so um and I laugh every time, but it's not every night.

01:14:41.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:46.17
Bill
But so I look at Facebook in the morning. It's kind of like at the end of when I do my readings and do whatever. I'll pop on Facebook real quick in the morning.

01:14:53.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:54.39
Bill
I look at it at night.

01:14:54.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:57.08
Bill
um Usually before I, after I'm done watching TV is kind of like, you know, hop on Facebook and maybe once or twice, you know, throughout the day, but I'm not on it all the time, but I have my specific times when I take a look at Facebook.

01:15:00.60
Mike
Right.

01:15:04.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:15:07.60
Bill
And then specifically at the end of the day, that's when I pop onto our, I actually log into our sober, not mature page just to see again, any comments or things like that.

01:15:08.06
Mike
Sure.

01:15:13.90
Mike
Okay.

01:15:16.13
Bill
i kind of eyeball that to see if there's anything that, you know, kind of that we need to respond to or whatever. Which nine times out of 10, it isn't.

01:15:21.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:23.95
Bill
Facebook is not active. Instagram certainly is far more active.

01:15:26.68
Mike
Right.

01:15:27.03
Bill
But, you know, I i don't know. Just I get in this habit. It's not a bad habit to be in because, I mean, this is our thing.

01:15:31.10
Mike
Right.

01:15:32.67
Bill
It is probably a good idea to keep an eye on it every once in a while.

01:15:33.11
Mike
Yeah. Somebody's got to do it because I'm sure as fuck not.

01:15:36.82
Bill
Well, and I and I didn't mean I didn't mean it that way.

01:15:37.81
Mike
Right.

01:15:38.98
Bill
i didn't mean it that way at all, you know.

01:15:39.27
Mike
I know. I i know.

01:15:41.88
Bill
But um so I hopped on there and, you know, obviously I told you there was this this podcast that, again, they they switched around how they were doing things and whatever. And it's just it's all this you know I do.

01:15:54.08
Bill
It's just their their video clips. Now they went they went to video, which i they always had.

01:15:57.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:15:57.68
Bill
But I mean, they're doing a lot of editing.

01:15:59.68
Mike
Sure.

01:15:59.96
Bill
So, and I'll repeat myself, if you edit your, if you're an audio podcast that now has switched to video, I mean, fine. You're trying to hop on some sort of bandwagon that, quite honestly, based on the things that I read, doesn't fucking matter anyhow, but I'll tell you that in a minute too.

01:16:09.93
Mike
easy

01:16:14.14
Mike
Right. Okay.

01:16:15.17
Bill
um But, when you edit your podcast now, your video is choppy.

01:16:22.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:22.74
Bill
And I'm just saying, as I am a huge consumer of podcasts, big consumer. I mean, between the Sobriety podcast, i listened I listen to Rogan a lot.

01:16:33.83
Bill
um He does, and that's the way that was explained to me, that his is a his is a video production that translates perfectly into audio. That's what this article was that you know for his that that I read.

01:16:45.33
Bill
Plus, on top of that,

01:16:45.49
Mike
Right.

01:16:46.78
Bill
They don't edit, i don't I think, at all. I've heard the word edit on his podcast maybe three times, but he also has a professional producer that's probably really fucking good at what he does, kind of like marette you know Mark had.

01:16:52.80
Mike
Okay. Sure.

01:16:59.35
Mike
Right.

01:17:00.02
Bill
Mark Baran had, even though Mark didn't do video. i never You could never hear it edit it in his podcast. Fucking ever.

01:17:06.85
Mike
Right.

01:17:07.06
Bill
So, so it got to the point where just listening to these, these clips and the things they talk about, they can't, I know they're catering to an audience. It's clearly not me and it's not how we do things, but you're the one that said the words that I was hate watching.

01:17:18.05
Mike
do

01:17:22.10
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:17:23.13
Bill
Because I'm telling you these stories and I'm like, I just, I hate it. And you're like, so you're, you're hate watching their clips.

01:17:27.97
Mike
yeah

01:17:28.37
Bill
And I'm like, well, call it a call. What it is. You know, it's I am.

01:17:31.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:33.35
Bill
And now I can't, I can't help myself. I can't look away. I've got to, I got to watch these fucking things.

01:17:36.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:38.33
Bill
So this is the same podcast that, you know, got, got touchy about my comment when I, when I said about, you know, the, the, whatever I said, um, God, what was the, uh, all the statistics.

01:17:44.51
Mike
Okay.

01:17:50.73
Bill
I'm like, what the fuck was I even complaining about?

01:17:51.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:52.73
Bill
Like, Oh, we don't make it up.

01:17:52.98
Mike
This time.

01:17:55.54
Bill
Exactly. So we don't make up the statistic.

01:17:56.35
Mike
he

01:17:58.02
Bill
We just report it. Maybe you should listen to the whole episode, this whole holier than thou type of thing that listen to our episodes type of thing.

01:17:59.55
Mike
Ah. Mm-hmm.

01:18:04.99
Bill
We're out here and I complimented them. So, Um, then I see this announcement. It's like, Oh, just so you know, we're, we're off on summer break. See you at the end of the summer.

01:18:14.34
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:18:14.55
Bill
And I forgot about it that they, I bitched about that. Not bitched about it. I brought this up last year and I know we had a conversation about it. Cause I'm like, really?

01:18:20.65
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:18:22.52
Bill
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. High and mighty motherfucker. Tell me all these goddamn things. and You're just, you got really. And I think now I'm going to have you, I'm not even going to tell, I'm going to have you tell me your opinion on a sobriety podcast that takes a fucking summer vacation.

01:18:38.58
Bill
Mike, what do you think about that?

01:18:39.30
Mike
well Well, you know what?

01:18:40.79
Bill
hey

01:18:42.22
Mike
I've seen a couple of your posts

01:18:47.38
Bill
Yeah, that's where it came from.

01:18:47.48
Mike
addressing that very thing.

01:18:48.47
Bill
Yeah.

01:18:48.64
Mike
Yeah, I know. i did Now it makes sense. Right. Yeah. And the posts, the Sober Not Mature official post from Sober Not Mature ah says, you don't take a break on your sobriety.

01:19:01.60
Mike
Don't take a break on your fucking podcast.

01:19:04.67
Bill
Right.

01:19:05.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:05.71
Bill
Right.

01:19:07.09
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:07.16
Bill
And I mean, that that line um in the thing with this is this came up a couple of weeks ago and we had guests. I didn't have a chance to to really explain myself, but that's what you just said.

01:19:15.81
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:19:17.23
Bill
You're like, well, now it makes sense.

01:19:18.57
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:19:19.95
Bill
You're looking at this post, go, what the fuck is wrong with Bill these days?

01:19:21.90
Mike
Well, no, no. I mean, I encouraged it.

01:19:23.05
Bill
Right,

01:19:24.18
Mike
I mean, I figured that's where it was from. i mean, it was the the message was was quite clear.

01:19:27.10
Bill
right. Right.

01:19:29.64
Mike
ah And I agreed with it.

01:19:30.17
Bill
right

01:19:32.56
Mike
I went, yeah. and will You know, what fucking say? You're in reruns. You goddamn network show. Shut the fuck up. Sit down for your.

01:19:39.24
Bill
Right.

01:19:39.52
Mike
Right. And most of these are once a week like us. Right. I'm assuming.

01:19:43.10
Bill
Right.

01:19:43.68
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:44.10
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:19:44.39
Mike
Yeah. so Fucking once a week, man. I don't know. i There's things we have to do on a daily basis. Yeah. doing this once a week yes it's we've we've talked about it on here plenty times this is part of our recovery now this is a thing that we do as as is our sobriety yeah we're not gonna take a goddamn break you know i mean you know you you go someplace you bring your shit with you we record you know i i've gone to mexico a couple of times but we recorded those weeks i was in mexico and

01:19:52.04
Bill
Right.

01:20:05.89
Bill
Right.

01:20:10.90
Bill
Right.

01:20:16.60
Mike
Recording, yeah, the international episodes. Go back and look them up. They're no different than the regular ones. um

01:20:23.32
Bill
Yeah.

01:20:23.89
Mike
Yeah, you know, I mean, we're we're taking this trip to Austin. We've already talked about it. We're going to record probably on like Tuesday that week because we want to make sure that, yeah, right, because we want to make sure that there's a fucking episode available.

01:20:32.25
Bill
Right. Right.

01:20:37.02
Mike
Yeah, you know, because, I mean, maybe it's a little presumptuous of us, but, you know, maybe somebody depends on this fucking thing, you know, and if they don't, that's cool, too, but um we depend on it.

01:20:37.48
Bill
Right.

01:20:46.38
Bill
Right.

01:20:50.35
Mike
we We're putting an episode out every fucking week because we have to. It's it's the it's one of the tiles in the Jenga game that we've built, and we're not pulling it out.

01:21:01.46
Bill
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the the thing with this, I think the only the only person, well, I can't say that. The only sobriety podcast that I listen to or that I've been closely, i don't know, kind I don't even want to say monitor, that I've noticed, you know, that I've talked about that records more than once a week.

01:21:16.91
Mike
Sure.

01:21:20.26
Bill
I think, again, back to sober motivation, I think Brad, I don't know if the... I think it's possible that with with Brad between the podcast, his groups, because he's got some paid things that he does.

01:21:31.75
Bill
He's got, you know, this this group that people can join. um I don't know if it's a full time thing for him, but I know he spends a lot of time.

01:21:37.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:38.47
Bill
He does a lot of editing. Once he went to video, he's another one where his videos choppy. His audio is fucking spectacular.

01:21:43.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:44.82
Bill
I could hear his edits.

01:21:45.02
Mike
Right?

01:21:46.42
Bill
You know, I think he edits to a little bit too much, but I mean, it's his, can edit whoever he wants, you know, but so he may be the only one that's, that's doing it more than once a week.

01:21:46.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:50.14
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:21:54.74
Bill
um Granted, every once in a while, same with another podcast that I listen to all the time that, you know, they, they miss a week and I'm like, I show up.

01:21:55.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:02.76
Bill
Cause I'm again, i am a, I am a consumer of content.

01:22:02.74
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

01:22:06.64
Bill
And it's now, now these two podcasts are part of my daily or my weekly routine and it's sober motivation and sober friends.

01:22:12.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:14.48
Bill
I listened to both of those every single week and it's usually on, usually on Sunday and it's, you know, Sunday morning I'll listen to, um, sober friends cause it's short.

01:22:14.77
Mike
Right.

01:22:17.27
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:22:23.73
Bill
It's usually 30, maybe 40 minutes. If it's longer than that, it's, it's surprising, you know, cause they don't usually record that long. It's easy. I can use it while i'm you know, taking a shower, get ready to whatever.

01:22:33.43
Mike
Right, right.

01:22:33.60
Bill
And then I'm sober motivation. I'll sometimes listen to if I, if I go someplace on a Sunday, you know, the trail, I'll listen to it while I'm out, you know, kicking around and doing grocery shopping.

01:22:38.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:42.92
Bill
Then I'll finish up when I get back. But I get, that's my sobriety podcast.

01:22:44.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:46.36
Bill
I listened to and every once in a while, you know, i mean, sober, sober friends. I mean, they've, they've missed a couple every once in a while.

01:22:52.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:52.76
Bill
Brad's, oh, he's got plenty of episodes. I could scale back and listen to him, but

01:22:55.01
Mike
Yeah, he's done that right. He banks them probably too you probably you know He'll go a week where he'll do four or something.

01:22:59.32
Bill
yeah. And,

01:23:02.73
Mike
and Yeah, so he'll have them like we were supposed to do, but we didn't know any better.

01:23:05.18
Bill
Yeah. but Yeah.

01:23:07.01
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:23:07.98
Bill
And you know, he, he might, he might do that. Cause I, you know, when he talks about it, I know that I, I don't know if I think we might be the only, um, you know, sobriety podcast that's in, that's kind of in our orbit that, that, you know, releases the next day.

01:23:22.23
Bill
Cause you think about every time we tell a guest that they're like, really?

01:23:22.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:25.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:25.86
Bill
They're like, Oh, I was just to ask what day this comes out. Yeah. Fucking tomorrow.

01:23:28.11
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:23:28.66
Bill
It does.

01:23:28.94
Mike
what What week?

01:23:29.51
Bill
Yeah.

01:23:29.90
Mike
What month will this be?

01:23:31.29
Bill
Yeah.

01:23:31.39
Mike
Yeah, tomorrow. Mm-hmm.

01:23:33.43
Bill
Yep. You know, and um I don't know. it's It's the same thing. And yeah, that's where i I started doing those. I did those, you know, those posts because I don't, I don't, I don't fucking get it, you know, and when you and I first talked about this, when it, and I don't know if it was with this podcast, with this one I'm talking about or the something else.

01:23:52.25
Bill
The, the, the thing was, is it like, what happens if, you know, or what would happen if, you know, early in recovery,

01:23:56.20
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:00.38
Bill
You or I or anyone, anyone that's early in recovery or somebody that that really is in that position.

01:24:02.12
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

01:24:06.87
Bill
And we talked about it that needs that meeting and they show up and it's not there.

01:24:09.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:11.31
Bill
You know, it's closed and not just for a day, but it's closed for the fucking summer.

01:24:11.66
Mike
Right.

01:24:14.06
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:17.01
Mike
Right.

01:24:17.50
Bill
I mean, that would be unacceptable in in the physical recovery community.

01:24:19.97
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

01:24:23.22
Bill
that you can't do that, you know?

01:24:24.80
Mike
Right.

01:24:26.07
Bill
And I'm not saying that they can't do it. I just don't understand it.

01:24:28.43
Mike
Right.

01:24:29.03
Bill
You know? So same deal. Cause they're, they're, their thing was, Oh, we'll be checking in on Instagram. We'll be doing this. We'll be posting, but no new episodes until the end of the summer. Hey, have a great summer, everyone get out and enjoy yourself.

01:24:38.27
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:40.47
Bill
And I'm like, okay, so what what does that even fucking mean?

01:24:40.89
Mike
right

01:24:43.97
Bill
So I can just, i don't have to worry about my recovery till the end of the summer.

01:24:47.39
Mike
yeah

01:24:47.98
Bill
Hey, it's, Let's get up. You know, don't worry about it. You don't need, you don't need to any, whatever you, whatever you do.

01:24:51.81
Mike
Yeah. Hey, tomorrow's the 4th of July. We don't need to worry about it. Let's go out party.

01:24:56.27
Bill
Fuck it. Summer.

01:24:56.85
Mike
see Yeah, you're right.

01:24:57.39
Bill
I i take, ah I'm taking, I'm taking tomorrow off. I think I'll take off

01:25:02.94
Mike
Yep.

01:25:04.31
Bill
And, and yeah, if it, if it comes down, if, if people that are listening to us right now, it's this guy, you guys are being judgmental. Yes, we fucking are.

01:25:11.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:11.94
Bill
I I'll be the first one to admit in.

01:25:12.05
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:13.90
Bill
If any one of these fucking podcast people came to me and they're like, were you talking about us? I would be honest. I'm not going lie to him.

01:25:19.81
Mike
yous

01:25:20.17
Bill
You know, cause I, I, I will judge you.

01:25:20.31
Mike
yeah

01:25:23.36
Bill
I'm not going to judge you about how you choose to be in recovery, but if you choose to cut corners, I'm going to judge you.

01:25:27.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:25:30.34
Bill
you know I'm not going to tell you to do something different.

01:25:30.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:32.70
Bill
I'm not to say you need to come back and do your fucking podcast or you need to do your recovery this way.

01:25:35.35
Mike
Right.

01:25:37.38
Bill
Do it whatever the fuck you want, but will I sit over here and judge you?

01:25:39.23
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:25:41.94
Bill
Yes.

01:25:42.02
Mike
Yeah. Yep. Bet your ass.

01:25:43.67
Bill
one One hundred fucking percent.

01:25:45.93
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:47.05
Bill
I'm going to judge you.

01:25:47.10
Mike
Hmm.

01:25:48.09
Bill
You know, and I'll i'll be honest about it, too. I'm not going hide behind anything. this I'm saying it into a microphone. I'm going behind the fucking microphone. you want You want to fucking call me? I'm sure if somebody can find my goddamn phone number.

01:25:56.85
Mike
Right?

01:25:57.65
Bill
You know, email me. I'll call you if you want. You know, it's I don't mind.

01:26:00.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:01.84
Bill
i don't mind. I'm not going to shy away from the shit because and here's the thing, you know, as much as we fuck around.

01:26:03.81
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:07.51
Bill
And as much as we, you know, act, you know, the act a fool when it comes to this thing or Instagram or all the other fun that we have, because, I mean, it it needs to be our opinion.

01:26:11.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:18.35
Bill
that The sobriety thing needs to be fun.

01:26:18.88
Mike
Ah.

01:26:20.71
Bill
If it's not, what's the goddamn point?

01:26:21.06
Mike
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

01:26:22.91
Bill
why would Why would anyone stick around if they're not having fun, you know?

01:26:25.98
Mike
I wouldn't.

01:26:28.31
Bill
i Why would you stick around doing anything if you're not having fun, you know?

01:26:30.81
Mike
Yeah. Right. Well, it never did.

01:26:34.01
Bill
Right, right.

01:26:34.06
Mike
Well, other than, you know, it wasn't fun at the end, and but that was, you know, again, it comes back to choices and freedoms and shit like that.

01:26:37.24
Bill
and

01:26:41.39
Mike
But yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're having, yeah, God, I know. And, and yes, we're, yes, we're judging, you know, I mean, like fucking Bob used to say all the time.

01:26:45.39
Bill
item right right

01:26:51.98
Mike
Yeah. You got damn right. We judge. you know um ah yeah And I hope that people judge me. And if I'm doing something that I i shouldn't be, please point it out to me.

01:27:03.55
Mike
You know, i'm I'm open enough now that, yes, again, you know, we're open.

01:27:04.52
Bill
right

01:27:08.65
Mike
We're, yes, if we're doing something wrong, tell me. I may not agree with it. I may think you were wrong. You know, I think what I'm doing is right, you know, but um if you if you actually make a good point, I'm going to look at it because I'm open-minded and in all that happy crap today.

01:27:14.71
Bill
right

01:27:21.94
Bill
Right.

01:27:25.27
Mike
um But, yeah, if you're doing something I find to not be right, I'm going to tell you, and I hope you do that to me.

01:27:33.75
Bill
Well, in the in the judging thing, in that I had this written down. I almost forgot about it. but there was the Did you see the the meme that I posted again where it shows a a cartoon character or a cartoon drawing of a woman and says all the places you could put a dick? Yeah.

01:27:45.68
Mike
I did.

01:27:46.68
Bill
and it's just just fucking Iron Zeal.

01:27:48.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:49.98
Bill
It points to both of her hands. It's like two spots between her crotch.

01:27:54.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:54.66
Bill
It's her mouth. It's it's all this stuff. And it's fucking hilarious. And and i I did that.

01:27:57.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:00.12
Bill
I posted that meme. I don't know, probably seven or eight months ago. in it And I'll just say, for it from an Instagram standpoint, it did really fucking well. And I came across it just inadvertently whatever day I posted.

01:28:12.69
Bill
I'm like, well, I mean, this thing did well once.

01:28:13.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:14.65
Bill
Let's see if it does well again, you know?

01:28:14.77
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:28:16.53
Bill
And and it did. it I mean, for us, it went viral. It had like 11,000 or 12,000 impressions on it, which we don't we don't usually get that on Instagram.

01:28:21.77
Mike
Mm

01:28:25.81
Bill
I mean, that's huge outside of the ordinary, you know?

01:28:25.85
Mike
hmm.

01:28:28.73
Mike
Right.

01:28:29.05
Bill
um And then... So I post this goddamn thing. it's doing fine. People like it to do whatever it's it's doing.

01:28:35.30
Mike
Right.

01:28:35.52
Bill
It's doing normal. You know, that no whatever our normal above average good is, it's doing that.

01:28:40.53
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:28:41.56
Bill
And I'm i'm i'm enjoying it, you know. So then I have my Instagram. yeah Look at the comments. And then there's a comment so from some, I think it's a dude too, from some guy.

01:28:51.64
Mike
Of course.

01:28:52.76
Bill
And it's like, what does this have to do with um sobriety?

01:28:52.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:55.89
Mike
Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

01:28:58.49
Bill
And I'm like, and again, i did I did it again. I said, it has nothing to do with sobriety. I said, it's a meme.

01:29:03.57
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:03.81
Bill
It's funny. I said, that's what it has to do with with this, you know, and left it at that.

01:29:04.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:07.56
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:29:08.60
Bill
And then i don't remember if, oh, and then got three or four of our followers, like it jumped in and defended us.

01:29:13.43
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:29:15.48
Bill
they're like they're like did you see the name of the of their did you see their name you know no right oh yeah

01:29:19.69
Mike
and were those females because i know on the face facebook side of it um yeah the couple of comments that i saw on it i mean i you know didn't linger or anything but yeah they were friends of ours and they were all female and they were like oh my god they're so goddamn funny i laughed so hard and i was just like wow because i mean you know i looked at it went oh that's cute whatever blah blah blah i moved on with my life i know i didn't find it particularly hilarious i certainly wasn't offended by it um i just went oh yeah that's cute moved on but

01:29:38.36
Bill
right

01:29:49.14
Bill
Yeah. Well, the, yeah, the, the one that, and I forgot about that on Facebook. So our friend Mara, who has been on our podcast twice, she's the one that she's like, I can't stop laughing at this.

01:29:52.51
Mike
he Yes. Yes. Yep.

01:29:58.46
Bill
And then our friend angel, who was on this podcast said, yeah, B too.

01:29:58.52
Mike
isn Yep. easy

01:30:02.34
Bill
I don't get it. I don't understand why i'm laughing so hard.

01:30:04.52
Mike
You're right.

01:30:05.56
Bill
But so, yeah, I mean, I don't remember if they were men or women on on Instagram, but they're like, do you do you see the name of their, you know, their name?

01:30:11.02
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

01:30:12.80
Bill
They're like, but, you know, if you if you look a little bit deeper, it's, you know, they've got good recovery. So people are defending us, right?

01:30:17.14
Mike
Yeah, cool.

01:30:17.94
Bill
And then didn't hear anything on it for like a week. And I see this comment in this same fucking dick, okay?

01:30:25.44
Mike
Of course.

01:30:26.08
Bill
Um, says, did you see this? And then tags five or six different Instagram profiles that have the word sober. And so I don't know who these people are, but at sober, this and at whatever.

01:30:38.60
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like you motherfucker.

01:30:39.39
Mike
aha a

01:30:41.04
Bill
And I'm like, oh, now you're going blast this out there and fucking complain. And, you know, I'm trying to draw in people to back you up.

01:30:44.65
Mike
ahha

01:30:47.55
Mike
this is

01:30:47.86
Bill
So I fucking blocked them.

01:30:49.60
Mike
good

01:30:49.97
Bill
Yeah. I, I fucking blocked it. Well deleted. Um, yeah. What is it? I, yeah. Blocked and just, yeah, done.

01:30:56.31
Mike
Yeah, right yeah, yeah, you're gone.

01:30:57.15
Bill
No, I didn't respond.

01:30:59.14
Mike
No, of course not.

01:30:59.32
Bill
And I fucking, fucking blocked them, you know?

01:31:00.80
Mike
Yeah, well, so a week later, so it's been living in its head for a week. How am I going to fucking make this right in the world?

01:31:07.34
Bill
Right.

01:31:07.30
Mike
Fuck you. Uh-huh.

01:31:08.38
Bill
Yeah. Who can, yeah. Who can, who can I get to help me, you know, and then tries to draw another, other fucking things.

01:31:09.38
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:31:14.10
Bill
And I'm like, you know what? um But, but the thing with it is we, we talk about the people that listen to us and anyone's listening to us right now, you, you know what the deal is that we, we take our sobriety very seriously. This, this is fun.

01:31:25.74
Bill
But this also is, it's exactly what I, what I just said. And what we were just talking about is that If two things, if I didn't have a sense of humor, I don't know what I would do with myself.

01:31:36.33
Bill
I mean, I can't, when I meet somebody who really doesn't have a sense of humor, I kind of look at them like, how do you even do life?

01:31:36.65
Mike
Right.

01:31:40.19
Mike
Hmm. I know you have you poor thing.

01:31:42.61
Bill
You know, how do you, yeah. How even get through this thing?

01:31:46.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:47.61
Bill
You know, so sense of humor, if I,

01:31:48.48
Mike
How are you still breathing?

01:31:49.72
Bill
Right.

01:31:49.81
Mike
Hmm.

01:31:51.10
Bill
I hope you not shot yourself between the eyes.

01:31:54.23
Mike
Yes.

01:31:55.35
Bill
But so I don't know how I would get through life without having a sense of humor. and But on top of that, I don't know how I would get through this thing like we're just talking about without having fun.

01:32:04.86
Mike
Hmm.

01:32:06.47
Bill
If if if life and sobriety is not fun, I wouldn't want to do it. you know i just i just wouldn't so um i again i don't people are listening to us you you guys get it you know but on instagram it's just every once in a while these these people and i just i shouldn't have i shouldn't have commented even to begin with but then after the second comment i'm like fuck you like yeah like that that chick from the one podcast she's blocking blessing

01:32:25.76
Mike
Mm.

01:32:29.56
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:32.31
Mike
Yup.

01:32:33.34
Bill
yeah You're gone, motherfucker. You know, your all your tags.

01:32:35.14
Mike
yep

01:32:36.34
Bill
I can see the people trying to try to go, whats what is he talking about? yeah Trying to try to click through the link that they can't get to the link anymore.

01:32:40.61
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:43.18
Bill
so But yeah, so that's it. I mean, Instagram, yeah instagram people like that, you you fucking Instagram Karens, you can go fuck yourself harder than anything or anybody has ever tried to fuck you in a bad way.

01:32:46.31
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:51.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:56.89
Bill
Right?

01:32:57.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:32:57.43
Bill
Fuck you with whatever bad thing, whatever makes you really hurt, makes you embarrassed.

01:33:02.10
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:33:02.16
Bill
That's what you need. That's how you need to get fucked right now. So fuck you.

01:33:04.64
Mike
Yep. Yes.

01:33:07.03
Bill
know On that note, happy holiday, everyone.

01:33:08.48
Mike
Yes.

01:33:11.35
Bill
Happy 4th of July.

01:33:12.02
Mike
That's right.

01:33:14.65
Bill
and yeah, i think I think we're fucking done. I haven't eaten yet. Have you eaten yet?

01:33:17.27
Mike
No, no, no.

01:33:17.51
Bill
I haven't eaten yet. Okay. Yeah.

01:33:18.77
Mike
Exactly. I got to go get a pizza and fucking turn the ball game on.

01:33:19.64
Bill
Okay.

01:33:22.68
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, okay. I think, I think we're, we're done.

01:33:23.97
Mike
Yep.

01:33:25.56
Bill
It's your turn, my friend.

01:33:26.35
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. always be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it. Don't blow your fucking fingers off tomorrow or today or whatever the hell the fuck this is. All right. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, Always and eternally.

01:33:56.55
Mike
yeah Fuck you. Now it's time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off until you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:34:10.19
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.

01:34:17.78
Bill
And you know what? I almost forgot the funny thing. This, this will take two, this will take two minutes. I promise you.

01:34:22.19
Mike
right.

01:34:22.81
Bill
Have you ever watched the show Arrested Development?

01:34:25.81
Mike
ah Yeah. ah You know, but um hey, guess what? It was before we got sober, so I don't remember a whole lot of it.

01:34:33.34
Bill
Did it? Oh, he yeah.

01:34:34.61
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:35.42
Bill
Oh, yeah. 2007 or 8, I think. it ah Yeah, you're you're right.

01:34:37.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:38.42
Bill
Okay.

01:34:38.68
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:38.74
Bill
You know, I never even realized that because I've watched bits and pieces of it over the years, ah clearly since I've been sober.

01:34:42.14
Mike
Right.

01:34:43.86
Bill
Not clearly, but I mean, since I've been sober.

01:34:44.02
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

01:34:45.70
Bill
And it's it's it's fucking hilarious. It's just done it's done well.

01:34:48.44
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:49.63
Bill
It's written well. It's kind of old-time slapstick, but just this deadpan humor every once in a while.

01:34:50.57
Mike
Right.

01:34:54.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:55.49
Bill
It's hilarious. Fucking hilarious. But okay. So, you know, Jason Bateman and Arnett are in there.

01:35:00.02
Mike
easy

01:35:00.19
Bill
The two characters, David Cross is another one.

01:35:02.57
Mike
he

01:35:02.91
Bill
He's fucking ridiculous. David crosses. But um so ah Michael is, or I'm sorry, Jason Bateman is Michael. He's the, the one that's kind of running in the family.

01:35:12.02
Mike
you he

01:35:13.91
Bill
Cause dad got put in jail. um

01:35:15.02
Mike
Right. The great Jeffrey Tambor.

01:35:17.94
Bill
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Another, another one. Yeah. He's, he's fucking easy.

01:35:20.11
Mike
Did I ever tell you my Jeffrey Tambor story?

01:35:22.36
Bill
No, I want to hear that. And then I'll finish, I'll finish this.

01:35:23.35
Mike
All right, very quickly. um The first time we, as a family, I was about 15 years old.

01:35:24.73
Bill
Okay.

01:35:29.23
Mike
ah He was on um The Ropers, which was the spinoff of Three's Company.

01:35:34.07
Bill
Oh, was he? io I don't remember that, but yeah, I know.

01:35:36.85
Mike
Yeah, he he was the uptight neighbor to the Ropers.

01:35:38.97
Bill
Oh, shit okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

01:35:40.48
Mike
that's So that's where I knew him from. like Again, this was 80, probably three, something like that.

01:35:42.46
Bill
Right.

01:35:46.04
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah. Right.

01:35:47.02
Mike
And um first time we went down to l LA, we went to Disneyland and and into Hollywood and whatever. As a family, it was a touristy thing, whatever, kid. We're coming up over the grapevine, which is the mountains going into LA, into the basin.

01:36:00.73
Mike
And we're coming down into the valley. And there's a Mercedes next to us on the highway. And Jeffrey Tambor is in the fucking car. And I waved to him.

01:36:11.40
Mike
And he fucking turned and smiled and waved back at me. So, yeah, that was the first first real celebrity i I ever had contact with.

01:36:14.74
Bill
Really?

01:36:22.32
Bill
That's great. I mean, that that's, that's fucking, that's fucking amazing, but.

01:36:23.06
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. And clearly he recognized that, you know, my age and whatever that I recognized him from the Ropers. And he, yeah, you know, and yeah, he took the time to look over, smile and wave and, you know, gave me the, gave me the knowing nod.

01:36:30.81
Bill
Right.

01:36:37.81
Mike
It was very cool. So I've always had a soft spot for him.

01:36:40.86
Bill
Well, and and he was in, um he played himself in Entourage.

01:36:45.22
Mike
Okay.

01:36:45.40
Bill
Because, yeah, the ah Jeremy Pivens.

01:36:46.77
Mike
Well, he was, he was Hank Kingsley on the Larry Sanders show, which was, oh God, that was the fucking best.

01:36:50.71
Bill
forgot I forgot about that too. Yeah. Yeah. Just

01:36:54.97
Mike
Kings Lee. Yes.

01:36:57.75
Bill
all all these shows, people check them all out because they're all they're all fucking funny. The Ropers.

01:37:01.28
Mike
Yes.

01:37:01.47
Bill
That's what made me laugh so hard. So, OK, so back to back to rest of development. So Jason baseement Bateman's character is the one that's basically running the company once.

01:37:09.60
Mike
he

01:37:10.35
Bill
ah Yeah, you're Jeffrey Tambor is in prison. um will arnett his character's name is joe but it looks like gob g-o-b uh but it's joe um he's the you know kind of like doesn't do much but then they flip roles because michael ends up doing something that kind of could get him in trouble key he's getting looked at by the board so they make joe president okay so in this whole thing Joe brings the fucking pool table into the office.

01:37:12.60
Mike
Yes. h

01:37:16.94
Mike
yes

01:37:28.60
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

01:37:36.10
Bill
He's all fucking around. He's just all he's like, what can I do as you know kind of president? And he's fucking mindless too.

01:37:39.60
Mike
Right.

01:37:41.14
Bill
So he buys a he goes to a boat show and he he gets talked into buying this fucking boat because he's hitting on the model that's on the boat.

01:37:50.91
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:37:51.88
Bill
And and the boat is called Seaward, S-E-A-W-O-R-D.

01:37:56.07
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:37:57.24
Bill
And, you know, so he buys a boat. Then he goes back and he's telling Michael and he's like, Michael's like, you bought you bought a boat. He's like, well, yeah, he goes, we also got to do secretary to he brings back the model and puts it puts it to work so he could be around her because he wants to basically stalk her.

01:38:06.81
Mike
a

01:38:11.13
Bill
But um so Jason Bateman and and Will Arnett, their characters are standing in the office in the at the business.

01:38:11.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:38:17.83
Bill
And Michael's like, he goes, you got it because you got to get rid of the C word. Because you've got to get rid of the C word.

01:38:23.10
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.

01:38:24.85
Bill
And right as he says that, their mom, the character, walks in and she says, I will leave when I'm good and ready.

01:38:29.35
Mike
aha

01:38:32.64
Mike
yeah

01:38:34.78
Bill
I forgot about it, but I just started fucking laughing my ass off. And that's the thing, because the two of them are just sitting there. That's the deadpan part, because she just says that, and they just go on.

01:38:42.10
Mike
Right.

01:38:43.76
Bill
She just starts talking like nothing's happened. You need to get rid of the C word. Yeah.

01:38:50.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:38:51.10
Bill
yeah So anyhow, that was kind of a shortest, longest story. But i yours is almost better. See, the dude, the fucking Mercedes driving down the highway. That's great.

01:38:57.81
Mike
well

01:38:58.22
Bill
so All right, man. So everyone, I don dut know don don't know. Don't fucking drink. just Just be safe. Have fun.

01:39:03.51
Mike
Don't drink.

01:39:03.70
Bill
Dude, do what you do.

01:39:03.85
Mike
Keep your fingers. Blah, blah, blah.

01:39:06.30
Bill
and And come back here and hang out with us next week.

01:39:08.10
Mike
Yes.

01:39:08.22
Bill
It's going to be us for the next next couple of weeks until we've got we've got another author coming on, Austin, at the end of the month.

01:39:08.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:39:14.68
Mike
is this

01:39:15.48
Bill
Yeah, last week of July. So he's he's a podcast dude, too. So, yeah, I think it'll be a good one.

01:39:18.52
Mike
Cool.

01:39:20.20
Bill
But in the meantime, I love you, brother.

01:39:21.89
Mike
Yes. Love you too.

01:39:23.96
Bill
And I believe we'll talk soon.

01:39:26.23
Mike
We shall.

01:39:27.77
Bill
Bye.

01:39:28.76
Mike
Bye.