SoberNotMature - Episode 230 (Unstructured Garbage)

00:00:01.50
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And then sticking with our little theme of why should you listen to.

00:00:11.99
Mike
Oh, yes.

00:00:13.91
Bill
Yeah, I know. Yeah. The only reason I forgot is because we actually have a real reason, you know, that we can we can tell people to listen this week.

00:00:20.02
Mike
Okay.

00:00:21.34
Bill
Did you see the post on Instagram about the, yeah.

00:00:23.06
Mike
Oh, yes, yes, yes.

00:00:24.46
Bill
So um if you are a new listener and if you haven't paid attention yet, our little podcast here was nominated for best podcast through a an organization or a sober bar called Sands Bar.

00:00:37.36
Bill
And they have every year called the, it's the Sands Bar Academy Awards.

00:00:37.72
Mike
hmm.

00:00:41.56
Bill
Out of the fucking blue, i mean, we didn't even know. We almost, well, I almost missed it on Instagram because I didn't know what the fuck it was.

00:00:48.06
Mike
a

00:00:49.66
Bill
But anyhow, so we were nominated for Best Podcast. Voting was done in April, April 11th.

00:00:52.28
Mike
z

00:00:55.58
Bill
We're going to be out in Austin. That's the actual awards ceremony, um August 29th. But I saw the little things leading in over the last couple of days from Sandsmart. I'm like, okay, when's the podcast one coming?

00:01:06.30
Bill
Blah, blah, blah. So we are now ah part of the three top three finalists for bets Best Podcast. And it's the Soberness Podcast, Sober Not Mature.

00:01:13.23
Mike
All right.

00:01:17.38
Bill
Obviously us, everyone. And then Happiest Sober. And Happiest Sober is that Madeline that I was talking about the one time that she's based out of Canada. Her mom's been sober for like 30 plus years, blah, blah, blah.

00:01:30.04
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:30.49
Bill
And then Us and the Soberness one, I don't remember what that what that one is. But so, yeah, we are we are now in the in the top three. So if if if you're if you're a new listener and you're looking for a reason, there it is.

00:01:38.73
Mike
Finalists.

00:01:43.82
Bill
Because we've we've been we've been nominated.

00:01:44.15
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:45.66
Bill
So.

00:01:45.85
Mike
Right. Not only nominated, we are finalists

00:01:46.90
Bill
yeah Yeah, now we're now we're a part of the finalists. So but um I don't know, you know, because the more I thought about it this week as I was is as thinking about this, all these things, you know, just popped into my head.

00:01:59.58
Bill
I'm like two things that number one thought was we're gonna forget because you seem like you kind of forgot when I brought it up. And quite honestly, I probably would have too, unless it was something like this.

00:02:04.80
Mike
Right.

00:02:08.66
Bill
But um here's the thing. If you are a new listener, um either you're going to like us, or as Mike had said last week when you were talking about, I forget what it was, you said maybe that's the reason why somebody or people like us, or maybe that's why people hate us.

00:02:21.77
Bill
So here's the deal.

00:02:21.94
Mike
ahha

00:02:23.98
Bill
If you're a new listener, either you're going to like us or you're going to hate us. I don't think there's anyone that's going to be in in between that casually listens to us like, let's just see what happens here.

00:02:28.12
Mike
bright

00:02:34.94
Bill
You know, um I don't, I don't think that's our audience.

00:02:34.98
Mike
Nice. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:02:37.46
Bill
I could be wrong, but knowing how our following or follower bases on Instagram, like we'll get in a month, we'll get three or 400 new followers and literally we'll net out like 12.

00:02:38.52
Mike
if

00:02:49.85
Bill
Okay.

00:02:49.85
Mike
yeah

00:02:50.94
Bill
And I'm not, that's not even a fucking exaggeration, you know?

00:02:53.37
Mike
nice

00:02:54.06
Bill
So, so people find us like, Hey, let's check. Oh God, no, we're not staying here.

00:02:58.23
Mike
v

00:02:58.94
Bill
Which is fine. So if you're a new listener, you want to stick around, fine.

00:03:00.95
Mike
m

00:03:02.58
Bill
Fucking let's stick around. If you don't, then fucking don't. You know, it just it just kind of is what it is.

00:03:05.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:06.79
Bill
You're it's we're not going to beg you. And I thought about that, too. We have not to this point. And maybe that's the other reason to listen to us.

00:03:14.54
Mike
Hmm.

00:03:14.70
Bill
I we're not unique, right?

00:03:17.82
Mike
No, we're not special.

00:03:18.76
Bill
OK.

00:03:19.34
Mike
We're not unique. We're garden variety drunks.

00:03:22.42
Bill
Thank you. Okay. So exactly what Mike said is just exactly how we how we run this podcast, right? we're not We're not unique.

00:03:28.19
Mike
Yep.

00:03:29.30
Bill
We're not special. We're just a run-of-the-mill fucking podcast too. But we're actually not even a run-of-the-mill podcast because podcasts that are out there that are run-of-the-mill, people actually follow like they read stuff and they do stuff on a list and they do certain things that all these things that podcasts should do.

00:03:32.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:46.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:47.35
Bill
We do none of that. so

00:03:48.40
Mike
No, we don't.

00:03:49.43
Bill
so So maybe that's the other reason to listen to us. If you're if you're tired of all the structured garbage out there, and there's a lot of it, um you know if you want unstructured garbage, stick with us.

00:03:55.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:59.26
Mike
Hi there. That's us.

00:04:00.38
Bill
hey

00:04:01.13
Mike
Unstructured garbage. we We may have the title already. Uh-huh.

00:04:05.34
Bill
You know what? write Write that down because I'm going to fucking forget it. But I like that.

00:04:08.82
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:04:10.06
Bill
Unstructured garbage. See, look at that. On the fly. Ladies and gentlemen, another recent listen. I'm going to stop.

00:04:16.67
Mike
Good

00:04:16.70
Bill
I can't even fucking listen to us or don't. Honestly, when it comes down to it, we don't fucking care. We're going to beg you. If you don't stick around, fuck you, then go someplace else. It's fine. Go listen to somebody else that fits more of a structure.

00:04:28.84
Bill
It's fine. It's all good. But um I don't know. I mean, it's yeah it's just kind of funny. Oh, ah you know what? I'll talk about it later. Remind me of... Actually, you know, I'm have you remind me because you won't fucking remember.

00:04:39.48
Mike
yeah good call.

00:04:40.86
Bill
i So as as I'm telling you to remind me, I'm like, yeah, i know I fucking know better. So I just wrote down a word. i will bring it up later. But for now, Mike.

00:04:51.67
Mike
Yes. Uh-huh.

00:04:52.54
Bill
If you could breathe through the yeah through the wildfire smog that you've been dealing with in Cleveland, Ohio, and everyone's dealing with in everywhere from fucking Wisconsin. As far as I know, Minnesota, because that's where part of them are coming from.

00:05:03.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:03.93
Bill
So I'm guessing from Minnesota all the way through probably Wisconsin, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, obviously Illinois, um Cleveland, or Ohio.

00:05:12.09
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right?

00:05:15.70
Bill
I think into Pittsburgh, too, because I was listening to somebody.

00:05:17.41
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:05:17.62
Bill
Oh, the

00:05:18.01
Mike
Pennsylvania. I mean, it's going into upstate New York. Toronto got hit hard yesterday.

00:05:21.22
Bill
is it really?

00:05:23.99
Bill
Really?

00:05:24.50
Mike
Apparently, Toronto was the most polluted place on the planet yesterday. Yelp.

00:05:31.00
Bill
That's it's probably not not a list you want to make. Make make a note of that, Mike.

00:05:33.56
Mike
No.

00:05:34.92
Bill
make Let's make sure that we don't, whatever we do, we what are we garbage here?

00:05:36.15
Mike
yeah

00:05:39.04
Bill
I almost have already forgot about it.

00:05:40.20
Mike
Right, whatever. Yeah, that's fine. But yes, we are. And I personally am not polluted anymore. i used to be very polluted.

00:05:46.73
Bill
Right.

00:05:50.17
Bill
Yeah, but I don't know. Yeah, the most polluted in the in the country. Or in the world. You said world?

00:05:55.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:56.28
Bill
No shit. Okay.

00:05:57.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:57.98
Bill
But what I was saying is, what is the did you write down the episode title? Because I didn't.

00:06:01.40
Mike
Yes, I did.

00:06:02.17
Bill
Okay. Because I literally, I already forgot. It's something garbage. on it This is unstructured.

00:06:06.08
Mike
Unstructured.

00:06:07.62
Bill
See? God damn it. Jesus. Where's my fucking brain?

00:06:10.10
Mike
Well, but we're unstructured. Why would, yes, why would we remember that?

00:06:11.90
Bill
I know. I know.

00:06:15.93
Bill
All right. So um I don't know. why why do Why do we do this? I mean, I just have but i have a mild suggestion here.

00:06:19.51
Mike
Yes. Uh-huh.

00:06:21.17
Bill
You probably have a reading. um let's Let's get back to the only thing that we do this structured. Sort of, right?

00:06:27.83
Mike
Right. ah well And very sort of today. Yes.

00:06:30.20
Bill
Okay.

00:06:30.19
Mike
um Right.

00:06:30.44
Bill
Okay.

00:06:31.23
Mike
and ah Did we even allude to that we're recording on Thursday yet? i don't even know.

00:06:35.45
Bill
Um, now, you know, it's probably the first time and in forever that I haven't brought that up, but yeah, cause Mike, Mike's got a baseball game, charity game to go to tomorrow.

00:06:36.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:39.64
Mike
Yeah. I do. Right. Yes. Road to Hope, which is one of the sober houses here in Cleveland, the Cleveland, Northeast Ohio area. um Yeah, I think they're based out of Elyria.

00:06:52.68
Mike
But anyway, um yeah, they do a charity fundraiser thing at the Cleveland Crushers Baseball, which is out in Avon.

00:06:53.83
Bill
Right.

00:07:01.80
Mike
Yeah, it's a minor, super minor league. It's not even like MLB affiliated.

00:07:08.76
Bill
Oh, really?

00:07:08.89
Mike
Baseball.

00:07:09.13
Bill
Okay.

00:07:09.33
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. It's ah the frontier league, I believe. front Frontier, pioneer, frontier. i don't know. Doesn't matter. um Yeah. But it's like not even s single A, but it's, it's still fun.

00:07:20.04
Mike
You know, ah this will be my third or fourth time going to it. And yeah, you know, it's, it's cool. Little, little intimate stadium. And you know, those guys are out there busting their ass and you know, doing what they're doing.

00:07:33.68
Mike
So it's kind of fun to watch.

00:07:34.31
Bill
Right.

00:07:35.00
Mike
Yeah. Anyway.

00:07:36.28
Bill
Well, and our and our in our friend Melissa is who you get the tickets through, right?

00:07:36.50
Mike
So, and yeah, this Yeah. Yeah.

00:07:40.81
Bill
Yeah.

00:07:40.99
Mike
She's affiliated with road to hope she works with them. And so, yeah. Oh my God. Okay. So anybody else's phone been blowing up all goddamn day?

00:07:47.99
Bill
yeah

00:07:50.83
Mike
Cause I've been getting, I get spam calls, right? Everybody does. But today's been extra special.

00:07:55.04
Bill
Right.

00:07:57.22
Mike
I don't know. I mean, literally.

00:07:58.44
Bill
Really?

00:07:58.90
Mike
Yeah. I probably gotten 25, 30, 30, twenty five thirty

00:08:03.48
Bill
Oh, my God. Wow.

00:08:04.25
Mike
Yeah, yeah. it's One just came through. Anyway. um Yes, unstructured as fuck. Anyway, speaking speaking of unstructured, um I was, yes, sort of the Thursday thing and blah, blah, blah.

00:08:12.76
Bill
ah

00:08:19.95
Mike
That's where I was going with. um ah Worked clearly and hell, I didn't get home until 8.30 yesterday. Yesterday was a fucking cluster, but...

00:08:28.37
Bill
Right.

00:08:31.00
Mike
Today wasn't much better, but I did get home a little earlier because I let my dude know that I'm doing the podcast tonight, so he took mercy on me. and But I still got home later.

00:08:39.45
Bill
hey

00:08:42.04
Mike
and So we're going to spin the wheel of As Bill Sees It.

00:08:42.46
Bill
Nice.

00:08:46.52
Bill
nice

00:08:46.74
Mike
So let me um clear my throat and reach over and grab the wheel.

00:08:52.22
Bill
yeah

00:08:54.25
Mike
And here we go. All right. Well, first of all, page 227.

00:09:04.54
Mike
um all right

00:09:09.75
Mike
well first of all page two two seven So whatever that is. um Is sobriety enough? ah The first part is from the big book, Alcoholics Anonymous, page 82. And the second part will be from the 12 and 12, page 80.

00:09:30.71
Mike
So here we go. As Bill sees it, is sobriety enough? The alcoholic is like a tornado roing roaring through... Roaring... Jesus Christ. um Yes. Also have a headache. Smoke has been fun today. The alcoholic is like a tornado roaring his way through the lives of others. Hearts are broken. Sweet relationships are dead.

00:09:58.73
Mike
Affections have been uprooted. Selfish and inconsiderate habits have kept the home in turmoil. Roaring... We feel a man is unthinking when he says that sobriety is enough.

00:10:11.74
Mike
He is like the farmer who came up out of his cyclone cellar to find his home ruined. To his wife, he remarked, Don't see anything the matter here, Ma. Ain't it grand the wind stopped a-blowing?

00:10:27.40
Mike
That is from the big book. I'm assuming to the wives, but we'll see. And the second part is from the 12 and 12. We ask ourselves... We ask ourselves what we mean when we say that we have, quote-unquote, harmed other people. What kinds of harm do people do to one another anyway? To define the word harm in a practical way, we might call it the result of instincts in collision, which cause physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual damage to those about us.

00:11:02.46
Mike
The end.

00:11:04.18
Bill
Yeah, you know what, I i felt that at that time, I actually felt like it was coming up and I i unmuted right away.

00:11:05.27
Mike
he

00:11:09.22
Bill
So, but thank you.

00:11:09.53
Mike
I tried.

00:11:10.86
Bill
I do i do appreciate the VN because just in case then i can that I can um definitely unmute.

00:11:11.13
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:11:15.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:16.50
Bill
You know, here's the thing with but As Bill Sees It, there's some of these, the chapters, or I'm sorry, the the the stories, I guess, they're pick they're pulling from the big book.

00:11:27.30
Bill
They're more, it seemed like they're more of the, the flowery type of story.

00:11:27.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:31.07
Bill
So it doesn't seem like, like when you're going through and doing touch tones, it's just like, oh, there's too much like good points that, you know, I can, I don't have time to write down.

00:11:40.50
Mike
Right.

00:11:41.27
Bill
Whereas this one, I'm trying to pick out the good points amongst the flowery stuff.

00:11:44.42
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:11:46.11
Bill
Um, you know, so again, not really a challenge, just, just different, but I, I do, I, I like, I like the, I don't know, just the, the side trail that we're taking with, with those.

00:11:56.99
Bill
I think it's, I think it's nice. So you can probably add, I didn't write down too many things.

00:11:58.74
Mike
is it

00:12:01.11
Bill
it was like four things that I wrote down, but. So the the last thing that I wrote down, and I know there was a whole list of things after that, but I liked the term instincts in collision.

00:12:11.76
Bill
I don't know that, well, I can't even say that.

00:12:11.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:14.66
Bill
I mean, if it's in the 12 and 12, I probably at some point maybe run across that in a meeting or something like that, or even reading it myself.

00:12:22.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:23.10
Bill
But what is that whole list of stuff afterwards? And then what's your thoughts on instincts in collision?

00:12:28.18
Mike
Right. Well, um okay. well The things after it will go first. ah Which cause physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual damage to those about us.

00:12:39.48
Bill
Okay.

00:12:40.06
Mike
Right. um Yeah, well, instincts and collision. I mean, the 12 and 12, Bill gets into instincts a lot in the 12 and 12, which I always liked. um You guys, you know, but yeah, I i went to a 12 and 12 meeting um for like five years um early on and loved it.

00:12:57.07
Bill
Right.

00:12:59.62
Mike
You know, it was actually 12, 12 and four. We'd go, we'd do the 12 steps, 12 traditions, and then we'd do the four absolutes and then we'd start over. Um, it was a great meeting.

00:13:11.12
Mike
It was great.

00:13:11.71
Bill
Right.

00:13:11.76
Mike
You know, we'd read it and then we'd discuss it.

00:13:12.34
Bill
Agreed.

00:13:13.68
Mike
and Yeah. I know you've been there a few times. I took you a few times. Um, um, yeah.

00:13:16.78
Bill
Yeah.

00:13:19.29
Mike
Uh, so, um, yes. Anyway, uh, instincts in collision, right. You know, um, he talks a lot about instincts, you know, that, uh, he talks about the instincts are, you know, God given they're natural.

00:13:32.59
Mike
They're, There there are things that we have, survival stuff and all that. And he talks about how alcoholics are like run by our instincts and and how, you know, we're completely fueled by our instincts and in survival.

00:13:47.52
Mike
And, you know, ah when i when I talk about, um you know, why did I drink? Because I want to fucking feel good all the time. Right. You know, that's why I did drugs. That's why I drank, because I want to feel good all the time.

00:14:00.80
Mike
That's an instinct thing. It is. Absolutely. um So, yes, instincts and collision, right? So we're letting our instincts run our lives and um not taking into account society and people around us and relationships.

00:14:16.94
Mike
And we're just fueled by our instincts, which which boil down to trying to fucking feel good all the time. And um and by living that way, we cause damage to everybody around us because that's not how human beings are supposed to live.

00:14:34.33
Mike
That's how fucking animals live. You know, and they seem to manage it okay because that's they they don't know any better.

00:14:37.27
Bill
right

00:14:43.22
Mike
um But supposedly we're supposed to know better.

00:14:43.61
Bill
Right.

00:14:46.97
Mike
um And yes, you know, we have to have these these higher, more lofty things running our lives, principles and things. Yes, and programs and ah whatever.

00:15:01.06
Mike
um So, yes, ah instincts in collision. we We're letting these, you know, and and survival instincts and the instinct to feel good and the instinct to...

00:15:12.16
Mike
get everything we want and all that crap. Yeah, they they run into each other. And again, that causes pain to the people around us. um Thankfully, you know, I don't let those instincts run my life.

00:15:25.04
Mike
You know, we talk about that first thought being wrong. We talk about um not wanting to do things. and yeah And yeah, you know, that's my instinct.

00:15:35.40
Mike
My instinct is to, you know, not go outside, not interact with other people.

00:15:36.01
Bill
Right.

00:15:42.10
Bill
Right. right

00:15:44.34
Mike
But yet I do. So, yes. Go ahead.

00:15:48.31
Bill
So, no, I was just going to say, so with the, do you think it's just in the statement? Cause I, the other thing too, is I was thinking are, are, are our instincts not only colliding with like, I mean, we have 70 different instincts or whatever they are like you and I individually.

00:16:02.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:04.20
Bill
So those are in collision all the time, but are we colliding? Is that what you're saying too? Cause that was the other thing that I want to make sure I was catching that. Right. So we're also colliding with whatever society instincts are.

00:16:15.51
Bill
Correct. Is that my thinking?

00:16:16.31
Mike
Right. Well, I mean, yeah, society doesn't have instincts.

00:16:16.84
Bill
Okay.

00:16:19.39
Mike
Society has, right, they have manners and they have rules.

00:16:19.80
Bill
Well, yeah, okay. Yeah, other people do, right. we're Right. Right. Right.

00:16:24.84
Mike
And and you know and thankfully, we've learned to to use those things today. But yeah, you know when we were just completely selfish and self-centered, the root of our troubles, um yeah, the you know the instincts were running our lives and that fucks everything up around us.

00:16:43.29
Mike
And it fucks us up too.

00:16:45.14
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know, the, the, the biggest thing when, when it comes to instincts and and you mentioned, I think animals is a, it's kind of, we laughed at it, but I mean, it's true. So, and you had said that they, they don't know any better or, or maybe they do in some cases, that's where, that's where their instincts kick in.

00:16:59.83
Mike
e

00:17:02.16
Bill
They know to, to run and protect themselves.

00:17:02.36
Mike
yeah

00:17:04.40
Bill
They know when to eat and, um you know, all those sorts of things.

00:17:04.73
Mike
e Right. Yeah.

00:17:07.08
Bill
They, they instinctually, they just do all these different things. You know, they know what to run up behind a female and, you know, pop her in the, pop her in the, you know, pop her from behind, you know, pull her hair and smack her ass.

00:17:14.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:17.69
Mike
okay yeah

00:17:21.61
Bill
But, uh, Hey, yeah, go doggy. Go dog.

00:17:25.94
Mike
if

00:17:26.17
Bill
But, uh, you know, so I mean, but those are, those are instincts, you know, they don't, it's not like they, they need to learn those from, you know, other people or, or sorry, other they just know them.

00:17:28.54
Mike
na

00:17:32.28
Mike
Right.

00:17:33.83
Bill
You know, but we do too.

00:17:34.16
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:35.56
Bill
I mean, there's certain things that we know, you know, but, oh, you know what the other thing did I ever tell you?

00:17:37.00
Mike
Hmm.

00:17:40.40
Bill
And it just made me think about it that when Theo was, and this is my, for everyone else, that's my youngest grandson.

00:17:41.94
Mike
Hmm.

00:17:46.60
Bill
He's a four months old now.

00:17:46.89
Mike
Hmm.

00:17:48.08
Bill
Yeah. Four coming up on five.

00:17:48.44
Mike
Sounds about right. Yep.

00:17:50.14
Bill
um I think the, the first time that I babysat for him and maybe when I was there with Kimmy, it doesn't matter. He was either, he was only a couple of weeks old or maybe a month old.

00:17:59.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:59.96
Bill
And, um, either a dog barked or something like that. He was sleeping and he jumped, you know, and I'm like, I'm like, okay, well that's kind of, that was interesting to me because I didn't know if that, that jump was.

00:18:04.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:08.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:12.82
Bill
So being startled is obviously in state you're, you're born with it.

00:18:15.90
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:18:16.86
Bill
It's not that something you learned that, you know, like, oh, maybe your, your mom's afraid of a snake. So you're afraid of snakes, for instance, that sort of thing.

00:18:23.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:24.02
Bill
Or, you know, you hear a, a, you know, a know, fireworks or things like that, a gunshot, whatever the deal is. And you associate that with, okay, that, that now scares me. But when you've got a baby like that, and I never paid attention to it.

00:18:36.09
Bill
I mean, with my kids or my other grandson, I never really paid attention, but I saw that and I'm like, well, that's fucking cool to me because I'm like, okay, that that's built in to this little, he doesn't know any better, you know?

00:18:37.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:41.58
Mike
Right. Right. Right. yeah right

00:18:46.29
Bill
doesn't know a goddamn thing. He doesn't know what the goddamn noise was. He doesn't know what can hurt him. He just knows to jump, you know? So anyhow, kind of a side note, but kind of along the same lines.

00:18:52.25
Mike
right

00:18:55.30
Bill
But, you know, so, so we get to this point where everything that we're doing is, is survival based really.

00:18:55.29
Mike
move

00:19:01.44
Bill
Cause you, and that's the easiest one that you brought up. So, you know, we do it, you know, obviously as human beings in general, and then we do it as we grow up and we're adults we want to do all these things to, you know, to try to protect ourselves in survival mode and blah, blah, blah.

00:19:13.99
Bill
But then when we start drinking or using, then, you know, we instinctively know that we have to, and it's because it's not fucking normal. you know, to, to be the way that, let's say even just you and I won't talk about it anywhere else to be the way you and I were in the final months, weeks, and days of our, of our active alcohol and drug use, you know, to, to continue putting that in our bodies.

00:19:22.18
Mike
Right.

00:19:26.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:34.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:37.43
Bill
But, know,

00:19:37.87
Mike
Right.

00:19:38.55
Bill
The weird part is we knew we had to or we would die, even though we didn't know we had to where we would die.

00:19:41.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:44.11
Bill
Whatever the case is, you know, it's just that that instinctual thing. But then you're right, though. Then everything we're doing, you know, all the people that, you know, rob and steal if they, you know, to to get something.

00:19:53.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:54.68
Bill
Again, that's fucking survival. You know, it's back to these instincts. And like you just said, with society in general doesn't have instincts, but there's rules and there's moral compasses and there's all these different things.

00:20:04.45
Mike
Mm so

00:20:06.08
Bill
And we don't give a fuck about any of that when we're in our shit, right?

00:20:09.02
Mike
hmm. Right. Right.

00:20:11.42
Bill
yeah

00:20:12.92
Mike
Yeah, exactly. You know, and and quite frankly, you know, deep down, i still don't give a fuck about it.

00:20:18.10
Bill
Right, right.

00:20:18.94
Mike
ah Right. But again, that comes back to the whole I know itself be true and all that shit. Right. You know, that's that's the core me. And I have to have to fight against it every goddamn day.

00:20:31.06
Mike
um Yeah, you know, but I mean, okay, so the the beginning of the reading, right, is sobriety enough, which I think really comes down to it, what Bill's talking about here, you know, um ah the the second paragraph from the big book, um when he says, we feel a man is unthinking when he says sobriety is enough, right?

00:20:31.22
Bill
Right.

00:20:50.53
Bill
Right.

00:20:50.68
Mike
like the farmer that comes out of the the basement, the cyclone seller looks around and goes, hey the great fucking wind ain't blowing anymore. I'm sober. Look, honey, everything's fucking wonderful. And of course it's not. You know, if they're talking about the eight to nine step. i you know I think he is. i would assume and um yeah you know that fixing all that that damage that we did you know just just putting down the bottle or putting down the bag or putting down the pipe or putting down the syringe is not fucking enough you know we need to change we need to make things better within our little world which we talk about endlessly on here um But it's true. You know, I mean, that's <unk>s where the root of that comes from. When we say we're just trying to make our little corner of the world a better place. That's all fucking a man shit, man. That's fucking nine step stuff that that never ends.

00:21:40.76
Mike
You know, I told the story on here when I was taking a guy to a meeting. Right. He'd been sober a couple of weeks and he was like, I got to start my ninth step.

00:21:46.14
Bill
right.

00:21:49.74
Mike
I got to get that done.

00:21:50.42
Bill
here

00:21:51.10
Mike
And I'm just letting him ramble. i'm riding I'm driving to the meeting and he's just going on and on and on the whole fucking way to the meeting. And I'm just letting him. And we walked in and Don Fox, who's, you know, got close to 50 years fucking sober.

00:22:03.97
Mike
He probably had 42 or 43 that point. Um, he's sitting there and we're walking in and this dude's still going and, and I'm letting them and we walk in the door.

00:22:14.64
Mike
I didn't say hello. I didn't say anything. I certainly didn't say anything the guy i gave the ride to. I just walked in the door. I said, Hey Don, when'd you finish your ninth step? And without even missing a beat, he didn't even look up.

00:22:26.40
Mike
He goes, I'm still working on it. Yeah. yeah and and yeah that's just it man it's that's where the the core of that comes from is is trying to make things better because we caused a lot of fucking damage and being sober is not enough yes we're dry yes you know i've been dry i mean you know i quit fucking drinking every goddamn day i passed out um

00:22:30.65
Bill
Yeah.

00:22:52.73
Mike
Right? You know, I just started up again every day.

00:22:54.39
Bill
Right.

00:22:56.85
Mike
um But yeah, you know, fixing, being a better person, cleaning up the damage, making things better for the people around you. That's what it's about. Just being sober, just getting rid of the substances is but a beginning.

00:23:12.45
Bill
Right. Well, and I was trying to find it couldn't remember. I think we talked about it an episode or two ago that, and I don't even remember what, ah again, how my fucking mind works or doesn't work.

00:23:17.40
Mike
Hmm.

00:23:22.96
Bill
Put it put it whatever way you want. But it was Steve from Sober Friends said something like that. It had something to do with sobriety and whatever. And he had that we talked about it on here. because I'm like, did I write that down recently or did we already talk about it?

00:23:35.29
Bill
It's gone. So I know we already talked about it.

00:23:36.57
Mike
Right.

00:23:37.44
Bill
and But basically, that's what it was talking about. you know I don't want just this. I need that type of thing where where it was the same concept of same same deals we talk about all the time.

00:23:42.06
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:23:47.64
Bill
And we were taught from the fucking beginning is you know literally just taking away whatever the substance is, no matter what it is. Because like you said, you know um heroin, coke, booze, everything, all the rest, all those goddamn things are just a symptom of what our real problem is.

00:23:53.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:56.25
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:24:01.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:02.04
Bill
And if we do nothing else, I couldn't even... why don't neith of us Neither of us understood that to begin with.

00:24:09.78
Mike
Right.

00:24:09.85
Bill
you know but um i I couldn't even imagine now if i well like i couldn't imagine now if i if I haven't done anything. If I was still sober after 16 years and didn't do any work, i mean which is doubtful.

00:24:21.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:22.89
Bill
i don't I don't believe that that would have happened.

00:24:24.95
Mike
No, of course not.

00:24:25.37
Bill
but But if, again, in some fucking fantasy world, today I'd be...

00:24:27.75
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:24:31.28
Bill
i mean, I get miserable enough in my head...

00:24:33.05
Mike
here

00:24:34.52
Bill
yeah You know, I mean, I do, I get my own head and I get down on myself and I get pissed off and I'm like, why the fuck?

00:24:37.64
Mike
Yo. Mm-hmm.

00:24:40.50
Bill
And whatever it is. And that's what 16, know, 16 plus years sober and a lot of fucking good positive work done.

00:24:41.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:44.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:47.10
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:24:47.77
Bill
And I'm still that way. Think about, take all that away.

00:24:48.95
Mike
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. know.

00:24:52.22
Bill
Take the, take the goddamn, you know, tires off the rims and just drive down the road. Cause that's about how fucking smooth my life would be.

00:24:57.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Take the rims off too, man.

00:24:59.04
Bill
Yeah.

00:25:00.40
Mike
And just, you know, just roll it on the undercarriage and the axle scraping on the fucking ground.

00:25:04.86
Bill
Just on the rotors.

00:25:05.89
Mike
Yep.

00:25:08.22
Bill
Oh, yeah. But fuck, yeah. that The work is not done. You're just just getting in there. I mean, you got to get rid of the boosh. You got to get rid of the substance.

00:25:14.62
Mike
Sure.

00:25:14.86
Bill
Whatever the case is, that has to happen.

00:25:14.98
Mike
course.

00:25:16.74
Bill
But goddamn.

00:25:17.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:18.58
Bill
And in the same thing, you know, if if you are new-ish, okay, we're just going to give you a suggestion.

00:25:22.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:25:23.71
Bill
We try not to be. That's one of the things that, you know, supposedly people like about us is we're not preachy. But it's, I mean, that we're it's not that we're not judgmental because we are just not preachy based on my experience.

00:25:28.62
Mike
Yes. Great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No. yes right

00:25:37.59
Bill
And Mike, I'm going to speak for you here. Cause I think based on your experience to the story of we've seen the people we've seen all these different things that if you don't put some sort of work into your life to clean up all this fucking mess and all this wreckage, cause everyone has it.

00:25:49.37
Mike
he

00:25:52.73
Mike
okay

00:25:53.65
Bill
you're probably not going to live, ah more than likely, you're not going to live a happy life. One way or the other, you're going to be grumbly as fuck and blah, blah, blah.

00:25:59.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:00.23
Bill
You know?

00:26:00.41
Mike
Well, yeah. Shame and guilt doesn't fucking go away by just wishing for it to go away.

00:26:02.49
Bill
Right. Right. Right.

00:26:05.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:06.13
Bill
Yeah.

00:26:06.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:06.91
Bill
Yep.

00:26:06.97
Mike
It's, you know, it's real shit. And, and the only way I found, I'll speak for you now. The only way that we've found to get rid of the shame and the guilt is first of all, ill stop acting in a way that causes shame and guilt.

00:26:12.60
Bill
Thank you.

00:26:20.61
Mike
And then, you know, and then start acting in a way, again, helping people, being of service, doing things for others, You know, that again, the a math, how does fucking doing something for somebody else make me make my life better?

00:26:33.37
Mike
i don't know, but it fucking does.

00:26:33.40
Bill
Right. Right.

00:26:35.29
Mike
And I'm glad it does.

00:26:37.46
Bill
Right. And thank you for speaking for me because that gave me an opportunity to get a drink of coffee too.

00:26:41.18
Mike
susan Sure, no problem.

00:26:41.85
Bill
So I appreciate that.

00:26:43.94
Mike
See, service, it works.

00:26:44.02
Bill
So two more things. ah One drug helping another.

00:26:49.20
Mike
That's right.

00:26:50.52
Bill
But but two more things that I wrote down. um Selfish and inconsiderate. Obviously that's kind of exactly what we were just talking about. But the opening of this of this whole beginning of this reading talked about tornado roaring through lives of others.

00:27:04.42
Bill
And

00:27:04.66
Mike
Right.

00:27:05.82
Bill
I think that's fucking perfect.

00:27:08.44
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:10.42
Bill
Well, how was your life before you got sober, Bill?

00:27:12.23
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:12.98
Bill
um Let me read that again. Tornado. I was a tornado roaring through the lives of others.

00:27:16.70
Mike
um hu

00:27:20.41
Bill
And you know what? ah I don't think I've ever heard the term. I don't think anyone's ever said, you know what? Last week, a really, really good tornado touchdown.

00:27:28.09
Mike
Yeah, yeah, right.

00:27:29.34
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:30.20
Mike
It watered the lawn.

00:27:30.60
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:31.44
Mike
It irrigated the fucking pond.

00:27:32.09
Bill
Yeah. yeah

00:27:33.68
Mike
and it Yeah, right. you know Yeah, there's nothing good that comes out of a tornado. Yeah.

00:27:38.81
Bill
right Yeah, what is one of them good tornadoes touched down and fixed everything.

00:27:39.42
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right. Exactly. The flowers bloomed.

00:27:46.36
Bill
yeah

00:27:46.51
Mike
Mm-mm.

00:27:47.96
Bill
yeah Did i I ever tell you how I got, I told you I got, that's how I got my first job with that that tornado that ran through Wales. Did I tell you that?

00:27:53.91
Mike
e

00:27:55.45
Bill
Oh, shit. God, how did I? You and I have known each other a long fucking time.

00:27:58.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:58.57
Bill
So um I was 15 years old. And Wales, Wisconsin, you can look it up. That tornado happened, I think, in, ah if I'm doing the math, it was probably 1980, May.

00:28:09.63
Bill
I think it was May 1983 or somewhere that. But I I'm thinking at that point.

00:28:15.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:15.91
Bill
no no no, I would have been...

00:28:16.73
Mike
no Yeah.

00:28:19.07
Bill
84, whatever it was. It was within that early, early 80 period.

00:28:19.93
Mike
ya

00:28:21.55
Bill
If you looked up Wales, Wisconsin tornado, you're going to see it.

00:28:24.47
Mike
business this

00:28:24.55
Bill
But it it went through and and kind of came up through, you know, from the south and hit this, literally this path through a couple of, i mean, like towns, you know, part of the town and subdivisions.

00:28:34.99
Mike
Right.

00:28:36.44
Bill
And then It ended up hitting the ah the farm of this guy, Willard Allen, and he owned, like, I mean, a lot of land. He was this good old boy that owned a lot of land in Wales and very beloved and that sort of thing.

00:28:47.29
Mike
a

00:28:48.85
Bill
So it was his farm, a cattle farm, the whole bit. And then he had um ah this couple, this man and this woman, Uh, that, that tended to his farm and they lived in a mobile home right across the street.

00:28:59.92
Bill
Well, the mobile home got literally blown up by the tornado.

00:29:00.12
Mike
e

00:29:03.38
Mike
right

00:29:04.06
Bill
I think, God, I'm trying to remember. I know, ah I think one of them died. One of them lived, I think. But then, um, Larry and I, which it everyone else, that was my stepdad. Cause again, everyone in the community kind of came together and cleaned up and we're, that was like one of the main devastation areas.

00:29:16.53
Mike
Sure.

00:29:20.38
Bill
So we were there cleaning up all this shit. And I mean, there were, I'm not shitting you. There were cows that were like blown up. And I mean, you're just seeing like their guts laying on the ground is fucking gross, but you could see this, um, where this tornado went through this field and literally almost like, uh, when you see a boat go through the water, the wake, um, that's what it left.

00:29:29.37
Mike
is

00:29:34.17
Mike
Right.

00:29:38.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:39.34
Bill
Literally this devastation in a line that went through, it was impressive, but very, obviously very devastating and scary.

00:29:41.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:29:47.06
Mike
Right. Right.

00:29:47.72
Bill
But out of that whole thing, there was only the one death, um, you know, which again, out of what it could have been, but tons of damage, But then, um, that's how my first job was working for, um, Willard at his lumber yard.

00:30:00.58
Bill
So we were there and I guess Larry was talking to Willard and something came up. He's like, Hey, he goes, I could really use a, you know, a handover at the lumber yard. And Larry kind of looked at me and I looked up like, cause I wanted to start working, make some money.

00:30:07.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:11.35
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:30:12.22
Bill
So he hired me at a 15 years old and, uh, paid $3 an hour, whatever it was cash.

00:30:17.08
Mike
Nice.

00:30:17.42
Bill
Um, He was worst motherfucker to work for.

00:30:17.85
Mike
and that

00:30:20.31
Bill
He was, he was such a cock. He was such a fucking cock. He's this, he's this nice old man. Literally everyone in town loved him, but I was working there.

00:30:27.92
Mike
Right.

00:30:29.89
Bill
It's like, you know, a week and then two weeks and then three weeks. And I'm like, I don't know. It's my first job. You when am I going to get paid type of thing?

00:30:35.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:37.08
Bill
So I talked to mom and Larry, though, I just ask him, you know, Willard. I'm like, I'm like, well, wouldn't he, wouldn't you think she's like, Oh, he probably, you know, it's new person, whatever. So I go in there, Willard. Hey, you know, ah I put the force of effort type of thing.

00:30:47.83
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:49.81
Bill
What do eat what do you think? You know, but nice, nicely asked, you know, when, when payday was he exactly, exactly.

00:30:51.19
Mike
Right. About little something for the effort. Wow. Yeah.

00:30:57.94
Bill
He fucking went off on me.

00:31:00.86
Mike
wow

00:31:01.85
Bill
You young kids these days All you want you all you want is money. You're just sitting there with your hand out all the time. And again, this is my first job. I'm sitting there with my mouth open going, the fuck, man, i've been I've been working for you for like a month now.

00:31:14.55
Mike
yeah

00:31:16.74
Bill
And I worked there for a year and a half and literally every fucking time I wanted to get paid, I had to deal with the same Save shit with He's such a fucking dick.

00:31:21.14
Mike
Wow.

00:31:24.34
Bill
But um anyhow, that was a ah tornado of of tornado that roared through Wales, but that's how I got my new job, and or first job.

00:31:28.53
Mike
Yes.

00:31:32.43
Bill
So I can't believe I've never told you that before.

00:31:34.97
Mike
Yeah, i think actually, I think you have. Yeah.

00:31:37.14
Bill
yeah He see was such a fucking knob.

00:31:37.99
Mike
Of course.

00:31:38.78
Bill
He was so, he was so fucking terrible.

00:31:40.11
Mike
Nope.

00:31:40.74
Bill
And mom and Larry didn't believe me. I'm like, he fucking yelled at me. She's like, Oh, you're probably overreacting. Like, no, I'm know that

00:31:45.69
Mike
course oh

00:31:48.09
Bill
But, but anyhow, so yeah, tornado, I think that's a perfect way to put it. And of course, I don't think either one of us can, can deny the fact that we were selfish and inconsiderate. Once again, I still can be, um i try not to be, try really hard not to be, you know?

00:31:57.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, the dimmer switch has been turned way down on that shit these days.

00:32:07.45
Bill
Yeah, you know what? And everyone out there, write that down. I love when you use that term dimmers, which I never fucking remember. it And i'll never I won't remember to use it on my own. But you bring that up on here a lot, and I love it every time you do.

00:32:15.48
Mike
Right.

00:32:18.78
Bill
Maybe that's maybe that's better that way.

00:32:20.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:21.24
Bill
i don't know to be I don't need to be out in public ruining that that great saying.

00:32:23.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:25.00
Bill
It's it's just it's nice here to get a tidbit of it every once in a while. so

00:32:28.09
Mike
this is

00:32:29.46
Bill
All right, um what else from the what else from the reading? I'm not going ask if we missed anything, because I know we did. But what else?

00:32:34.55
Mike
Right.

00:32:35.06
Bill
What else? What else do you think?

00:32:35.93
Mike
i You know what? Yeah. You know, just again, you know, putting down the jug is putting the plug in the jug is ah not the answer to this whole fucking thing.

00:32:42.17
Bill
hey

00:32:46.36
Mike
there's It's the beginning. It's the first thing you do. And then you then it's time to get to work, you know, and and change yourself and do things differently and be a better fucking person, which is the whole point of all this crap.

00:32:49.68
Bill
Right.

00:32:57.96
Mike
So, yeah, do that. and And you know what? The selfish, self-centered asshole that you are, that I am, that you are, Bill. um Right.

00:33:08.51
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:33:09.45
Mike
It makes our fucking lives better. We're we're happier. where We have joy and freedom and all that good stuff and serenity and peace and fucking amen.

00:33:19.70
Mike
I'll take that any day of the week.

00:33:21.50
Bill
Right. Yeah, but that is, that's the main thing. Yeah, that's the plug in the jug type of thing. And for anyone who doesn't do a 12-step thing, that's something you will hear on a regular basis at a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:33:33.16
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:36.68
Bill
Well, you know, it's not good enough to just put that plug in the jug. Yeah.

00:33:40.59
Mike
Right. Yes.

00:33:41.66
Bill
yeah Yeah, I know. I know. you know Whatever the fuck your name is, I know.

00:33:43.35
Mike
yeah ja

00:33:45.26
Bill
and' it I get it. I understand. No plug in the jug. Get out there and do the fucking work.

00:33:49.75
Mike
right

00:33:51.34
Bill
so

00:33:51.54
Mike
yes

00:33:52.76
Bill
All right. um One last thing that I meant to bring up. Well, I guess it didn't matter. I didn't bring it up right away. But now the the other thing that was on Facebook, well, Facebook for sure, and I posted it on Instagram, something we weren't allowed to talk about recently.

00:34:04.47
Mike
Ah, yes.

00:34:05.66
Bill
So my my son and his girlfriend, and his girlfriend Katie was on... um on this fine podcast uh three years ago in september it's it's been a while but yeah they got they just got engaged a couple weeks ago and um so yeah i've got uh i've got my my daughter and son-in-law now have been married for they got married in october of 2019 and then uh katie and my son derek are they're set to get married It's a Labor Day weekend of 2027.

00:34:12.63
Mike
she was. Yeah, something like that.

00:34:19.26
Mike
They did.

00:34:35.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:36.42
Bill
So not obviously not a month or so from now or a month and a half from now next year.

00:34:36.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:39.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:40.50
Bill
But yeah, just there. I mean, they're really good together. It's I like the same thing I said about Kimmy and Brian for you for years was something really fucking bad would had to happen for them not, you know, to to get engaged.

00:34:45.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:53.05
Mike
Right.

00:34:53.94
Bill
But, you know, I'm just ah um um obviously really happy for him. So, yeah.

00:34:57.91
Mike
Oh, oh. Yeah, exactly. Mazel tov to them both.

00:35:02.01
Bill
Exactly. All right. So um we have something in the mailbag. you want to dip into that now or just go into more? I've got a couple of sobriety things clearly I could talk about, but.

00:35:11.54
Mike
I mean, yeah, yeah. Well, um let's ah let's do the mailbag. Letters. We get letters. We get stacks and stacks of letters.

00:35:22.33
Bill
Stop. Oh, yes.

00:35:24.18
Mike
he

00:35:25.66
Bill
So this is from our our friend and fangirl, Shirley. I don't need to explain anymore who Shirley is, but it was just kind of nice.

00:35:30.53
Mike
Oh. Nope.

00:35:33.58
Bill
it was So we were we were talking, and this was based on the last episode that she had listened to because she emailed me on, or us, but obviously I grabbed the email a few days ago.

00:35:42.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:44.37
Bill
And she's been, for anyone else to know, Shirley also has been on the podcast ah about a year ago. I think we had her on a little over that podcast.

00:35:51.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:51.80
Bill
Um, but you know, she's been around from the beginning and, uh, probably one of the, well, at least one of the few female listeners that we know listens on, on a regular basis.

00:35:54.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:59.77
Mike
Right. We did.

00:36:01.44
Bill
Um, but she's a good shit.

00:36:01.44
Mike
Yep.

00:36:02.28
Bill
We met her at founder's day last year and, uh, yeah, she's just a, just a good shit.

00:36:04.09
Mike
we did

00:36:05.84
Bill
So, um, very simple. Just, Hey there. Uh, thanks for the the shout out to me about being a loyal listeners. We brought her up, which I completely forgot. um You know, but so, yeah, we had talked about her.

00:36:16.81
Bill
Obviously, she listened from the beginning. Same thing as we just said now. But she said it's true, too. Every Monday morning is sober, not mature morning. So thanks for being consistent. So I wanted to stop on that real quick because that is what we were talking about.

00:36:28.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:30.81
Bill
um a couple of weeks ago we've talked about it a year ago you know when these when these podcasts um and this is again you know wherere we're gonna get judgmental again for a moment because here is we said it before we do not get a lot of emails we don't get a lot of fucking messages we don't even get a lot of reviews or anything like that we just fucking don't i don't know what it is with you people that listen said to us Um, and it's fine.

00:36:39.78
Mike
That's right.

00:36:52.76
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:54.89
Bill
We don't need to get flooded with it. Maybe you're like, you know, these guys don't need to hear from me and it's fine.

00:36:58.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:58.61
Bill
Maybe, maybe we don't. And I'd rather have you do what's in your mind, dear listener out there than what we think we might need or want. Cause we don't fucking know anyhow.

00:37:06.94
Mike
Exactly.

00:37:07.26
Bill
Um, and Shirley's a friend. So, I mean, not that I don't consider her, you know, emails like a, I don't know, like a listener email, but she's also just a friend, you know?

00:37:16.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:17.17
Bill
But so here's the thing, and I know this because she said it when we were at Founders Day, because whatever it was, we were talking about something or no, what we recorded with him.

00:37:22.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:25.14
Bill
And I said, I said, oh if the episode will be up tomorrow morning.

00:37:25.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:27.66
Bill
you can listen to it after whatever. She's like, nope, I don't. I won't listen to it till Monday, even her episode, you know?

00:37:30.83
Mike
Right? Sure. Mm-hmm. right

00:37:33.56
Bill
And I said, she goes, yep. And I'm not going to change my mind. I'm trying to make you change your mind, you know? Yeah. And yes, surely I'm probably embellishing a little bit here. I'm sure you didn't try to argue with me, but it's, it's more fun. Just let, let me, let me, let me tell my lies.

00:37:48.02
Bill
So, um but yeah, so we, we found out that she listens every Monday and every once in a while she'll, you know, make a comment, do whatever, blah, blah, blah.

00:37:51.38
Mike
h

00:37:54.70
Bill
But, see the The main point here is that she said thank you you know for for being consistent.

00:37:59.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:01.31
Bill
And that to me means that we're not simply just being dicks about being judgmental.

00:38:01.59
Mike
Right.

00:38:06.25
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:38:07.55
Bill
um It means something for us to show up every every week. And i I know your answer, but am I right, Mike?

00:38:11.00
Mike
Yes.

00:38:13.91
Mike
yeah you are all right well yeah that's the fucking thing man you know i mean we were taught very early on you know uh 90 of it is showing up right being consistent is huge part of my fucking recovery um yeah it is it's it's you know it's i have to be consistent because again back to the reading man and fucking the wreckage and in the way we were um

00:38:16.94
Bill
Right.

00:38:19.94
Bill
Right.

00:38:31.05
Bill
Right.

00:38:42.62
Mike
yeah we were very inconsistent. Um, and part of that change and part of not just not drinking, but changing is, is being consistent, being reliable. We can fuck people can count on us today, which is, you know, still a little baffling to me in my hazy little alcoholic mind, but, um,

00:39:05.82
Mike
It's true. You know, people can count on me. You know, I say I'm going to be somewhere. I'm fucking there. They're five minutes early. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't, it probably doesn't matter to other people as much as it does to me, but it means something to me today. You know, that i'm i I fucking show up for work every goddamn day. i don't want to, you know, I show up, I show up at my home group every fucking week. You know, there are times i don't want to, it's like I'm laying on my couch and it's whatever. and Fuck. I got to get up and get cleaned up and go to the fucking meeting. Um, but I do, i show up.

00:39:41.88
Mike
You know, and um again, it part of it, my life is better because of it, because I am i am of fucking consistent, reliable, and blah.

00:39:46.78
Bill
Right.

00:39:53.05
Bill
ha

00:39:54.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:55.42
Bill
Right. But, and and the other thing too, is that we, we made a commitment to ourselves. And I don't remember when we did it. You know, when we started this, we were just going to do this and we didn't think about, you know, years down the road or, you know, this being 230 episodes and, and all those sorts of things.

00:40:07.13
Mike
yeah

00:40:10.30
Mike
yeah

00:40:11.76
Bill
We didn't think about that right off the bat. I don't remember having a conversation and me being like, Mike, so how long do you think you want to do this thing?

00:40:15.61
Mike
m Yes. Yeah. That's right. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

00:40:21.66
Bill
You know, And it never happened because literally at six months, you said it and it's in our promo.

00:40:26.68
Mike
h

00:40:28.82
Bill
You know, we're just going we're like, Hey, we're just going to do this, man.

00:40:32.38
Mike
yeah

00:40:34.71
Bill
Shoot our one into the wind.

00:40:36.35
Mike
that's right

00:40:37.56
Bill
and and that was, that was literally six months into this thing. um We were, we were recapping that first six months and be like, Oh yeah, we, we still didn't have this indication that, yeah, let's just keep doing this.

00:40:47.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:48.92
Bill
But, but once we did we're like, okay, we, you know, especially you start getting some comments and things like that.

00:40:49.04
Mike
Right.

00:40:51.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:55.32
Bill
You're like, i guess that, yeah, this does kind of matter.

00:40:55.48
Mike
Right.

00:40:57.44
Bill
Now people are listening. It's like, well, what now we, we went ahead and fucking did it now, you know, cause we, yeah.

00:41:01.78
Mike
Yeah, yeah. Goddamn, put that piece in the Jenga puzzle and now we can't pull it out. Fuck.

00:41:07.67
Bill
yeah kind god Damn it. I guess we got to make sure we get a fucking episode to put out every goddamn Saturday.

00:41:12.31
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

00:41:13.69
Bill
And you know, the the thing of it is, and there's been, well, and now I can think about it three occasions. Cause when we had Christine on, which was like episode 35 or something like that, fucking long, long time ago.

00:41:25.34
Bill
Um, I remember that she couldn't record until like a Saturday afternoon. I remember being in Cleveland and we didn't release it till Sunday, but you know, at that point, even, you know, we had, uh, you know, kind of pre-promoted on Instagram, like it's going to be a Sunday release and blah, blah, blah.

00:41:37.53
Mike
Right Mm-hmm Right Aha

00:41:40.12
Bill
But the, the two times that we had glitches in the software, you know, I mean, we, we did the same thing. And then the one where we couldn't, you know, release until the next week Um, I, I went ahead and I recorded a little thing and I actually posted that like I would an episode and I did it.

00:41:54.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:57.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:57.49
Bill
So when people went there, they, they would listen to this thing and, you know, even if they didn't listen, they could see on there, it says episode delay, you know,

00:42:01.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:05.56
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:42:06.78
Bill
Because because I'm like people people do they we we know well enough, whether it's three or three thousand or three million people show up and expect it, you know.

00:42:11.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:14.17
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:42:16.38
Bill
and And again, you get this little thing from me granted again, Trillie's our friend that doesn't it doesn't diminish you know her comment, but she's a friend of ours.

00:42:22.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:23.82
Bill
But still, thanks for being consistent. Okay.

00:42:26.36
Mike
Yes.

00:42:27.29
Bill
So I, again, our judgment, you know, if you don't, if you think we're being too judgmental, fuck you, you know, people, it means something to people.

00:42:32.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:34.17
Bill
So especially if you're another podcast, it's dipping into listen to us by chance, you know, fucking bash on you.

00:42:34.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:38.17
Mike
Yeah. Hi there.

00:42:40.61
Bill
If you're on vacation, fuck you.

00:42:42.87
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:42:43.16
Bill
If, if you're, if you're not,

00:42:44.17
Mike
If you got time to listen to this crap, why aren't you putting one out yourself, you motherfucker?

00:42:50.34
Bill
Yeah, and if you're not consistent, fuck you twice.

00:42:53.11
Mike
yeah That's right.

00:42:55.75
Bill
I got to try to remember that. I got to do a story about another job with fuck you two times too, but I'll get into that at some point.

00:42:58.68
Mike
c

00:43:02.05
Bill
So the last thing she wrote...

00:43:02.74
Mike
wasn't that a door song fuck you two times anyway go ahead yeah mm-hmm

00:43:05.05
Bill
but I think it was. Yeah, you've gone away. I think it was. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Wow, look at you. The the music guy the um But here's the paragraph.

00:43:15.27
Bill
But Shirley, I know you listen. So um i'm just i didn't I didn't have the heart to say I didn't know what you were talking about on here. But now you can you could write me back next Tuesday and you can tell me what what the fuck you were talking about.

00:43:25.31
Bill
Because I don't remember what we were talking about.

00:43:25.68
Mike
mm-hmm mm-hmm

00:43:27.79
Bill
Because here's her here's her next paragraph.

00:43:29.94
Mike
Okay.

00:43:30.26
Bill
Also, you two really cracked me up this week talking or with your banter, which, yeah, hey, we're banter we're banterish, about stuff.

00:43:36.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. All right.

00:43:39.31
Bill
So that could be the Terry Bradshaw thing. you know with the What were they giving to you?

00:43:41.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:43.23
Bill
what were they shooting you up with?

00:43:44.06
Mike
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:44.11
Bill
Stuff. Could be that. And she says, and that thing, comma, you know the one, yeah, that.

00:43:52.63
Mike
God.

00:43:53.70
Bill
Surely, I don't know.

00:43:54.04
Mike
now Now I'm not mean either.

00:43:54.62
Bill
I don't. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:43:56.40
Mike
Jesus Christ.

00:43:58.50
Bill
Ha, ha.

00:43:58.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:59.68
Bill
You know, Shirley, come on. I mean, no no offense to you. This is us. You know, this is our own problem.

00:44:03.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:04.52
Bill
But um I mean, we're we're fine with some subtlety.

00:44:05.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:07.75
Bill
But let me let me read that line to you again, Shirley, just so you know, you were talking about.

00:44:08.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:11.19
Bill
cause I know you I know, you know, but banter, fine stuff. Maybe the Terry Bradshaw thing. But then and that thing, you know, the one. Yeah, that. OK, once again, we we don't we don't know.

00:44:22.66
Mike
yeahmer

00:44:23.26
Bill
hey

00:44:23.83
Mike
be

00:44:26.14
Bill
And again, no surely no offense to you. we We love you to death, but yeah, we're... You got...

00:44:31.14
Mike
I'm glad somebody remembers something from this thing because we sure as fuck don't.

00:44:33.94
Bill
ah yeah You just got to be... Just make it a little bit more crystal clear to us.

00:44:39.35
Mike
You got to spell it out to us, man.

00:44:39.54
Bill
Come on. You know what the fuck you're...

00:44:41.95
Mike
We got brain damage from all the shit we did.

00:44:44.47
Bill
you you know You know what the fuck you're dealing with over here, Shirley. so But anyhow, that was that was it. That was the mailbag. That's it. I got i got nothing nothing else on the mailbag.

00:44:51.87
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, Shirley.

00:44:53.20
Bill
But yeah thank you. And then um yeah I'll look forward. I'm guessing. Oh, shit. We got a guest next week. But I'm guessing that we will get an email at some point. And then we'll pull out the old mailbag again next time when one Shirley writes us back to tell us what we were talking about.

00:45:05.18
Mike
We will.

00:45:08.34
Mike
Got it. By then, they do hey we said what?

00:45:12.18
Bill
Yeah, we'll be like, wait, did we? Wait, what?

00:45:17.72
Bill
but But you know what? On that note.

00:45:20.01
Mike
whos all Well, we're going to gather ourselves, try to remember our names, and we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

00:45:38.10
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. All right. i got nothing I got nothing funny or poignant to say. I don't know.

00:45:45.06
Mike
All right.

00:45:45.09
Bill
i get I got nothing. I got nothing at all. Okay. So a couple of things. You want something that's...

00:45:48.09
Mike
So let's continue.

00:45:49.37
Bill
but Yes.

00:45:50.29
Mike
So let's talk for another 45 minutes.

00:45:50.41
Bill
I can't get...

00:45:53.61
Mike
We got nothing.

00:45:58.32
Bill
uh touche ah yeah i got i get nothing pointy i got nothing funny i i got nothing at all yeah let's let's go ahead and fucking stay tuned for more bullshit so all right so i gotta i get a couple of humorous things i'll get back to so let's let's talk some more sobriety stuff so this this one i wrote down from sober friends and i'll and i'll explain the reason why i wrote it down but

00:46:05.72
Mike
Stay tuned.

00:46:14.81
Mike
Let's.

00:46:20.25
Bill
um once again and i i we talk about sober friends podcast and we talk about sober motivation those are two podcasts a couple of people out there um steve and uh and matt from sober friends good dudes we had man on here a couple years ago but um they run a good podcast structured not ours and then ah brad from sober motivation really good solid structured podcast i enjoy both of them go out there and visit those guys because we talk about them enough but So this was from Sober Friends.

00:46:37.59
Mike
hmm. Hey.

00:46:49.03
Bill
And the line was that i don't remember exactly what they were talking about or who or what the story was, but I wrote down on here and there's a purpose. It says, without my sobriety, I don't have.

00:46:59.41
Bill
And I cut it off there, but I'm going to explain it.

00:47:01.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:01.98
Bill
I wrote it down because I think that and you and I talked about it. I mean, it means everything. And one of the reasons I left it open ended Was, you know, kind of, we can put anything in there, but I was just curious.

00:47:08.15
Mike
Right.

00:47:13.72
Bill
So reading that line to you, just the first glance or first listen, when do you hear that without my sobriety, i don't have, is there any one particular thing or what immediately pops into your mind?

00:47:18.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:24.25
Mike
excuse

00:47:25.12
Bill
Okay.

00:47:27.13
Mike
right everything um yeah you know the fucking life um sanity um yeah you know and then you know the stuff the house the car the job the you know relationships and and people and and fuck man yeah i wouldn't have anything yeah

00:47:28.82
Bill
Okay.

00:47:47.03
Bill
Right. Right.

00:47:48.60
Mike
You know, I'd have fucking misery and a bottle. And yeah, if I was lucky, I'd have a bottle.

00:47:51.74
Bill
yeah

00:47:55.83
Mike
um I'd certainly have misery and loneliness and depression and despair.

00:47:56.06
Bill
Right.

00:48:01.63
Mike
And fuck all that, man.

00:48:05.72
Bill
Yeah.

00:48:05.91
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:06.00
Bill
And it's, you know, it's, ah it's funny because, um, I, I had a feeling you might use that word everything because that's it.

00:48:11.29
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:48:12.41
Bill
And that's literally what we talk about all the time. And we were told right off the bat, I know for a fact, we've said it on here plenty of times is that, you know, the, if we put, uh, we were told this, I think it's in the, is it the big book about if you put anything before your sobriety, is that just a, that's just a a recovery thing.

00:48:14.81
Mike
hmm.

00:48:21.91
Mike
o

00:48:25.27
Mike
I don't think it is. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:28.40
Bill
Correct.

00:48:28.64
Mike
Yep. Yeah.

00:48:29.30
Bill
Okay. So the, the mindset in case anyone, if you haven't heard us say it a fucking thousand times, you know, anything that we put before our sobriety, we're going to lose, you know?

00:48:34.30
Mike
m

00:48:38.90
Bill
And, um, basically to begin with, uh, and I'll speak for myself on this one. i was just like, that was my, kind of like my loophole type of thing that if I didn't want to do something, it's like, oh, you know, Because I remember, you know, talking to Dawn about something and I said, well, I'm not sure if I, because of it.

00:48:56.01
Bill
She's like, oh no, I get it. You know, if you're to do something the sobriety, think whatever it was. And that was like the first time it popped. i' I'm a few months over and I'm like, I'm like, hmm, yeah.

00:49:02.11
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Hey, I could use this to my advantage.

00:49:05.41
Bill
Yeah.

00:49:09.30
Bill
Yeah, which thankfully I never did, you know, but but the thing of that is, is that we we have that if you talk about the word, you use the word balance a lot.

00:49:11.29
Mike
Right.

00:49:17.93
Bill
um I mean, we we get up every morning. We do our readings. We have this foundation. We take the time to ourselves, regardless of where we're at or who we're with, all that stuff.

00:49:22.71
Mike
h

00:49:26.42
Mike
this

00:49:27.01
Bill
So there's no sacrifices that that we take when it comes to that. And then.

00:49:30.43
Mike
Right.

00:49:31.77
Bill
The things we do throughout the day have become, you know, kind of, you know, habit and part of and all those sort of things.

00:49:36.92
Mike
who

00:49:37.73
Bill
Not as much work, quote unquote, as they used to be, but um it is.

00:49:39.19
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:49:41.65
Bill
We're still doing the work every day. But but the key there is that, you know, if if we take any one of these ideals or principles or whatever the case is and say, you know what, um that this job is a little bit more important or that or that relationship or I'm going to cut a corner here because I need this, you know.

00:49:43.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:49:53.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:49:58.62
Mike
Right.

00:49:58.98
Bill
and And it's easy to get that way if you're desperate for whatever reason, you know, if you, I don't know if you're, if you're short on money, if finances are fucked up, you know, you want to get, start getting a little shady on things.

00:49:59.02
Mike
Right.

00:50:03.99
Mike
Sure.

00:50:07.74
Mike
a hey

00:50:11.02
Bill
Um, I don't know if you, if you were in a fucked up relationship, whatever the case is, you know, it's very, very easy to be like, okay, just this once I'm going to do this.

00:50:15.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:20.91
Mike
Right.

00:50:23.34
Bill
Well, are you then?

00:50:23.61
Mike
Right.

00:50:25.28
Bill
Are you?

00:50:25.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:26.46
Bill
What then? Right, Mike?

00:50:27.67
Mike
Yeah, what then? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:50:32.02
Bill
yeah So, um yeah, everything everything's a great answer. you know anything Anything that we can think of, ah you know from from stuff to this to this pen in my hand, to this paper that's in front of me, to this computer, to to the roof that's over my head, because it's not my roof, it's my sister's roof, I wouldn't be allowed here.

00:50:38.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:42.71
Mike
Right.

00:50:46.97
Mike
Right.

00:50:48.69
Bill
you know i mean, why would I be?

00:50:49.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah, right.

00:50:50.58
Bill
you know, to everything to, you know, I just announced my, my, you know, child's engagement that I've got grandkids and, you know, all these things that we have, you know, um I mean, my God, your granddaughter, you know, and and all these, all these gifts, you know, like, oh yeah, you, you have to go to a meeting every week.

00:50:55.99
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:51:01.69
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

00:51:07.22
Bill
Well, you know, it's, it's all of those things, you know, that, uh, I don't, I was, I was,

00:51:07.64
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:10.68
Mike
No, no, I get to go to a meeting every week. Yeah, but I get to get in my car and get to leave my house, get in my car, and go to a meeting.

00:51:20.88
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:51:21.27
Bill
Right.

00:51:21.80
Mike
Help another fucking drunk. yeah Yeah, it's awful, isn't it?

00:51:24.78
Bill
Right. right Right. Well, it just, it just reminds me when, when I so got that first job working that, that's three to 11. And, you know, I mean, all of our meetings were, you know, the earliest meeting I ever went to was a six 30 and that was a Stella Maris on a Saturday night.

00:51:43.50
Bill
That was the earliest meeting I went to.

00:51:44.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:45.14
Bill
And then most of them were, you know, 7 PM or what West park.

00:51:45.56
Mike
Right. Right, seven or eight.

00:51:49.14
Bill
Yeah.

00:51:49.19
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:49.34
Bill
West park was what eight 15, I think.

00:51:50.97
Mike
Yeah, yep.

00:51:52.44
Bill
You know, so as soon as I started that job, it's like my my entire meeting schedule was gone, you know, except for the weekends, um you know, and I'm like, I'm like, well, fuck.

00:51:58.81
Mike
Uh huh.

00:52:01.08
Bill
And I was I was worried because I'm like, I need to find at least, you know, one meeting I can go to every single day in the morning, you know.

00:52:08.18
Mike
Right.

00:52:09.05
Bill
And there was a there was a meeting. It was up on Lorraine.

00:52:12.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:12.28
Bill
And ah whatever it was, was a 7 a.m. meeting. you know So I didn't have to start work until 3 p.m.

00:52:15.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:19.56
Bill
in the afternoon. And I would get i got done with work at 11, get back to that back to the Keating Center, um chill for a minute, try to scrounge up something to eat, whether even it's a small bag of goddamn potato chips and

00:52:20.62
Mike
hmm.

00:52:31.74
Mike
Right.

00:52:32.41
Bill
smoke a couple cigarettes and drink a soda and go to bed. So maybe I'm in bed by midnight if I'm lucky, probably one in the morning.

00:52:37.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

00:52:39.90
Bill
And I'd go to sleep, which is fine. And I get up at seven, know, so I get that.

00:52:42.27
Mike
Uh huh. Yup.

00:52:44.34
Bill
And I'd, whatever time it was, it but maybe it was an eight o'clock meeting. But I remember it was it was a um I think it was because, yeah, it's like when I was leaving to go to that meeting, I think everyone was kind of starting to head out to kind of get settled in for meditation outside.

00:52:58.74
Bill
and And I had a bike at the time that I got, again, from from our cousin.

00:52:58.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:02.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:03.61
Bill
And I just fucking, you know, peddled my ass up. to the goddamn meeting every morning, you know, and because that's the only one I could get to, that was it, you know, and then I come back after the meeting and that's what I, I, you know, it was just a job to get some cash.

00:53:06.93
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:53:11.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:17.54
Bill
So I go, I go up to the library and I'm searching for fucking jobs all goddamn day until I had to go to work.

00:53:17.90
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:21.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:22.82
Bill
Now, again, none of these things were hard, but, um, you know, I mean, I think about it now and like, fuck, why, you know, I, if I don't have to get up, I'm not going to get up early.

00:53:26.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:31.26
Mike
Right.

00:53:32.26
Bill
If I don't have to rush around and do whatever, i I literally from, you know, from whatever time, six in the morning until, you know, one o'clock in the morning, I was, my day was full, you know, for a few weeks, whatever it was, or a month, you know, because that's what I had to do at that time to stay sober.

00:53:42.35
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep.

00:53:50.65
Bill
Yeah. And, and I didn't really think about it that much.

00:53:52.03
Mike
Yep. Yeah.

00:53:53.77
Bill
I didn't be like, God damn, I got to make sure I do all these things to stay sober.

00:53:56.76
Mike
ahha

00:53:57.14
Bill
its just, even at that point, it was things that we were taught that were already embedded in us, you know, to, to do this thing. So, but, uh, yeah.

00:54:03.83
Mike
yeah

00:54:05.24
Bill
So to get back to that, let me, let me read that again without my sobriety, I don't have anything.

00:54:09.01
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:54:12.34
Bill
Okay. just want to make sure we' we're still, we're still on the same page with that.

00:54:14.49
Mike
Yeah. Right. You know, if I fuck it up, then I got to get up at six zero in the morning after getting home, getting off work at 11, go to a goddamn meeting.

00:54:22.39
Bill
right right

00:54:23.63
Mike
Right. Yeah. We don't have to do all that shit anymore because we've, we've built that foundation. It's already built. That work is done. Thank Christ.

00:54:32.63
Bill
right yeah yeah exactly exactly so um i got one moment uh okay so this one was from touchstones and uh this is gonna be one of these other ones i didn't read this through again a second time so let's see how how poignant this one was

00:54:34.62
Mike
Yep.

00:54:44.98
Mike
he

00:54:48.47
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:48.92
Bill
ah From one of our favorite books, Touchstones, the reading was talking about ah compliments and people sometimes feeling uncomfortable by compliments and sometimes more comfortable by being told something that's completely opposite of compliment.

00:54:57.65
Mike
Mm.

00:55:04.05
Bill
okay So be being able to take, let's say, criticism better than a compliment, I guess, is kind of the idea of it.

00:55:04.37
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:55:09.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:10.87
Bill
Do you have, I mean, any, I don't think we've ever talked about that, but do you have, ah do you have any opinions on that?

00:55:10.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:16.23
Bill
I mean, as far as compliments versus criticism, is there one that do you get uncomfortable with either one or did you at any point?

00:55:22.58
Mike
Oh, yeah, sure. Both probably at certain points.

00:55:25.69
Bill
hey

00:55:26.42
Mike
um I mean, I understand the concept, what they're talking about. um You know, um having, having the, you know, it's, we have, we've got this ego, right?

00:55:30.97
Bill
Right.

00:55:37.36
Mike
You know, and so, yes, we think, oh, yes, of course I like to be complimented.

00:55:37.90
Bill
Right.

00:55:41.12
Mike
But sometimes, yeah, sometimes it can, you know, Maybe because i think they're talking about when, you know, we're we're doing the next right thing, but it's not normal to us yet.

00:55:54.26
Mike
um If it ever gets normal, totally. um But yeah, you know, but maybe not feeling deserving of the compliment, right?

00:55:57.53
Bill
yeah right

00:56:02.43
Mike
You know, you're kind of faking it a little or whatever. And and somebody compliments you on, you know, right.

00:56:07.94
Bill
Right.

00:56:08.74
Mike
Like, you know, Shirley complimented us on being consistent. Um, I'm certainly not uncomfortable with that because have done the work to be consistent. Um, I'm kind of proud of being consistent.

00:56:20.86
Mike
So yes.

00:56:21.27
Bill
Right. Right.

00:56:21.70
Mike
Yeah. Um, but I understand, you know, when you're fucking it up and faking it and yeah, you know, or not being consistent and somebody, you know, maybe somebody compliments you on something you didn't do that can make, that would make me uncomfortable.

00:56:35.63
Mike
Um,

00:56:36.00
Bill
Right.

00:56:37.14
Mike
You know, and and again, criticism may be easier. um i don't know. Go back to the ego thing. You know, fuck no, man. Don't fucking tell me I'm doing something wrong. um You don't know me. um You can't tell me I'm doing something wrong. um And, of course, that's all part of what we learned because we were doing everything fucking wrong. And we had to get used to people telling us we were doing it wrong. And, um and you know, I became...

00:57:05.75
Mike
like, you know, wanting to hear that I'm doing something wrong and and still do, you know, if I'm fucking something up, I'm doing something wrong. Tell me, you know, we say that a lot, you know, just fucking tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fucking stop doing it and change and and be a better person.

00:57:13.68
Bill
Right.

00:57:20.52
Mike
Hey, um, you know, so, um, yeah, now, but now, um, I'm comfortable with both of them, you know, um, again,

00:57:21.80
Bill
Right.

00:57:30.78
Mike
If I'm complimented on something I didn't do, yeah, that's probably going to make me uncomfortable because I have a conscience now. And um you know I can't take credit for something I didn't do.

00:57:41.21
Bill
Right.

00:57:43.92
Mike
Whereas before, they were drinking in fucking piece of shit. um Yeah. God, yeah. Tell me, you know, give me credit for something I didn't do, please. You know, and live my life to have someone say I did something that I didn't do.

00:57:58.47
Mike
um

00:57:59.01
Bill
Right.

00:57:59.51
Mike
Yeah, you know, so, um you know, again, thanks to doing the work and working this program and and being a better person. Now I'm comfortable with both now.

00:58:10.01
Bill
You know, and it's kind of funny. I mean, that made me think about when, when you were talking about that. Cause I, like I get every once in a while, know, I'm just thinking about times with, with my daughter, for instance, like she'll, she'll thank me.

00:58:20.51
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:58:21.81
Bill
She's like, thank you so much for watching the boys.

00:58:23.65
Mike
Sure.

00:58:23.73
Bill
And I'm like, you do not need to thank me.

00:58:25.69
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:58:27.06
Bill
You know, I'm like this, the literally the pleasure is all mine and blah, blah, blah.

00:58:29.91
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:30.06
Bill
She's like, well, you know what I mean? I, we appreciate, I'm like, I, ah but i i understand it, but then let's both, you know, all the thanks is on all both sides of the tables, you know, I don't need to be thanked.

00:58:31.81
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:58:36.89
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:58:38.98
Bill
But then again, I understand that you appreciate, you know, you appreciate me, but you a lot of times I'll do no need to thank me.

00:58:41.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:44.98
Bill
I mean, it's a, but, but yeah, you're welcome. Not a problem.

00:58:47.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:48.51
Bill
And, and I appreciate it. I thank her all the time. I'm like, I can't tell you how much it means to me that, you know, that in telling my daughter this, I'm like that you guys reach out to me.

00:58:56.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:58.78
Bill
Like, I'm like your first choice when you, when you need a babysitter and, you know, I'm fucking two States away, you know?

00:58:58.78
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, hey yeah, yeah.

00:59:06.52
Bill
And, and I'm like, and i always tell her, I i will do it as long as if it's a Saturday, almost always count on it, you know, unless you know that I'm going to be, you know, out of town or whatever the deal is.

00:59:15.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:19.42
Mike
Sure.

00:59:19.81
Bill
And, you know, unless something is planned like that, but in during the week, you know, normally they don't have a lot of things.

00:59:22.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:24.85
Bill
I said, if it's during the week, check with me, let me see what I can do, you know, type of thing.

00:59:28.31
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:59:30.09
Bill
But I said, worst case, always ask me, i'm I'm always willing to do a type of thing.

00:59:34.30
Mike
he

00:59:34.41
Bill
You know, but like you said, and I guess I didn't think about that, the, you know, the other way around is the, if we are, again, new, newly in recovery or when we were new in recovery and in sobriety and stuff like that, um yeah, you got, you're doing a good job, or whatever.

00:59:43.96
Mike
he

00:59:49.53
Bill
Ah, you know, I don't, thank you, but, you know.

00:59:52.18
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:59:52.40
Bill
I mean, I don't feel comfortable taking that because i just, I don't need that.

00:59:55.23
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:56.76
Bill
And then, then the biggest one, you know, when, whatever it was, couple years sober, we talked about this, you know, somebody is like, yeah, you know, you, you got this bill.

01:00:01.69
Mike
Hmm.

01:00:04.24
Bill
I'm like, du du know no, no, no, And I, and I didn't understand it.

01:00:04.82
Mike
hu oh

01:00:08.21
Bill
You know, the first time I heard that, but then it, then it clicked. I'm like, I don't want to ever have this thing. i don't want to ever have any of this shit, you know, because if I, if I do this lazy fucking brain of mine, it's going like, I got this fucking thing, man.

01:00:13.27
Mike
right

01:00:22.16
Mike
I got this um I'm cured yeah right mm-hmm

01:00:22.59
Bill
I got it. yeah I got it fucking locked. And then you know what? All the fucking guard goes down. The foundation fucking falls. And then like you said, I got to get up at 6 a.m.

01:00:34.41
Bill
again and ride a fucking bicycle up to a goddamn meeting and live in a recovery center again.

01:00:34.69
Mike
Yep. Uh-huh. Nope. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yep.

01:00:40.48
Bill
No fucking thank you.

01:00:40.85
Mike
aha

01:00:41.60
Bill
No goddamn thank you.

01:00:41.89
Mike
nope

01:00:43.00
Bill
Or I'm going to be dead, you know? So I, you know, the first time I accept that compliment, like you said, you know, you're going to be in the, in the corner, you know, shooting heroin.

01:00:44.54
Mike
yeah right

01:00:50.17
Mike
is

01:00:51.21
Bill
As soon as I accept a, you know, a compliment like that, well, I just might as well be planning my funeral or somebody should, because I'm done.

01:00:51.38
Mike
this is

01:00:57.75
Mike
yeah

01:00:58.17
Bill
I'm fucking done. um But criticism, see, that's the other thing too, is that if it's people that I trust, um no issue whatsoever.

01:01:06.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:08.87
Bill
And obviously people that in recovery and family and and that sort of thing, rarely do I even have somebody that I would trust somebody.

01:01:11.61
Mike
Sure.

01:01:17.21
Bill
ah Not trust, this is bad way to put it. Let me step back.

01:01:19.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:20.54
Bill
Most of the time, somebody in recovery, if they give me advice or direction, I'm never even going to think about a question or whatever, especially if the person's got got some time and i and I trust them as an individual.

01:01:25.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:28.28
Mike
Right.

01:01:30.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:32.42
Bill
I don't even think about it.

01:01:32.47
Mike
Right.

01:01:33.82
Bill
But now you take a normal human being out to out here in society, not that I wouldn't take the advice again, but but where have you been and who are you to me type of thing.

01:01:37.12
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:01:42.64
Mike
Uh huh.

01:01:43.51
Bill
And I don't mean that in a bad way, but um you know I can learn from, you know, you hear so many people.

01:01:43.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:48.94
Bill
I mean, we You and I, we're in our late 50s, right? You know, so just because I've i've got, you know, I've had and do um have people that are that are younger than me for a number of years now that are in positions above me.

01:01:52.70
Mike
hmm.

01:02:00.43
Mike
Sure.

01:02:04.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:04.41
Bill
And I don't fucking care.

01:02:04.89
Mike
Right.

01:02:06.52
Bill
You know, and it's been ah it's been a long time since I have cared about something that like that.

01:02:06.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:02:11.40
Bill
And I don't care what walk of life you came from, where you are.

01:02:11.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:14.80
Bill
You know, I don't care about any other part of that. I don't care what your makeup as is as an individual or your age.

01:02:17.39
Mike
Right.

01:02:20.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:21.66
Bill
if If you know what you're doing, by all means, guide me.

01:02:23.81
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:25.53
Bill
And we talked about that too for people in recovery.

01:02:25.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:27.74
Bill
You know, if somebody, if somebody has, you know, five, six years sober, somebody has two, three years sober and they say something that makes sense or give me a piece of advice, fuck it.

01:02:27.91
Mike
Right.

01:02:33.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:37.16
Mike
Right.

01:02:37.43
Bill
I'll take it from you. If you know what you're fucking talking about, I give a fuck.

01:02:38.65
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

01:02:40.07
Bill
Did you get five years versus my 16? Now again, time matters, but quality of sobriety also matters.

01:02:43.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:47.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:47.70
Bill
And what do they have? You know, what has that person been doing to that point?

01:02:52.02
Mike
Right.

01:02:52.15
Bill
And, um, you know, I have no issue taking that. So, you know,

01:02:55.06
Mike
No, course not.

01:02:56.82
Bill
So again, compliments and in criticism and and all those sorts of things. I guess the the bottom line is that, I mean, these days, you know, the fact that we've done the work, does that, does that you know, the reason why we we care?

01:03:04.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. Well, and and that's, you know, and when you were talking about that, I was thinking, yeah, you know, um, thankfully I don't give too many reasons for people to criticize me anymore, which is, yeah, which is a big part of it.

01:03:15.58
Bill
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:18.42
Mike
You know, I mean, you know, so yeah, if you're criticizing me for something I didn't do or something I'm doing right and I know I'm doing right, um, Yeah, go fuck yourself.

01:03:18.94
Bill
right.

01:03:29.14
Mike
um But again, you know, I like to think that I'm living my life in a way that, um you know, some rando isn't going to fucking tell me I'm doing something wrong because I'm not, you know, and and i they and they don't, which is nice, you know, anymore.

01:03:29.47
Bill
Right. yeah

01:03:42.41
Bill
Right.

01:03:47.96
Bill
Right.

01:03:48.45
Mike
Yeah, you know, in the old days, yeah you fucking bum. um Yeah, yeah.

01:03:52.41
Bill
but

01:03:52.97
Mike
I am, you know, I didn't want to hear it from you. And I would fight you to the death to prove you wrong. um Even though I knew you're right somewhere deep down my black little soul.

01:04:03.45
Mike
um

01:04:03.78
Bill
Right.

01:04:04.41
Mike
Yeah. You know, so yeah, again, and part of it is I'm living in a way and, and, and again, you know, um occasionally get a compliment from doing that. And um if I know that i I truly deserve it, I have no problem taking it.

01:04:19.38
Mike
You know, and um and again, you know, nine times out of ten, nobody's going to compliment me on something I did right or wrong or indifferently. You know, they they don't give a fuck.

01:04:27.67
Bill
yeah Right. Yeah. And, you know, especially these days, too, people are so and and I don't I don't necessarily consider it to be wrong. You hear that a lot in. Well, everywhere, you know, people are so tied up with themselves and people's faces are always in this that and the other thing.

01:04:36.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:40.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:42.38
Bill
yeah I agree with all that, you know, screen time and blah, blah, blah.

01:04:43.69
Mike
Sure.

01:04:45.03
Bill
But, you know, what it really comes down to it.

01:04:45.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:47.14
Bill
I mean, who am I to say, you know, what they should be doing with their fucking lives? You know, as long as you don't tell me what to do with my if you're over there doing that thing.

01:04:51.61
Mike
Right.

01:04:55.76
Bill
i mean, again, i might judge you.

01:04:56.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:58.04
Bill
You know, but, um, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna say, well, you shouldn't be living your life that way. But the same deal is this fucking, like you said, some, some rando coming up to you and saying something to you Nobody gives a fuck.

01:05:10.32
Bill
You know, people just don't care.

01:05:10.49
Mike
No. Yeah, exactly. Ah, and remember the good old days when it was a put down to say, he's always got his nose in a book.

01:05:18.20
Bill
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

01:05:23.19
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, harken back to those days.

01:05:27.26
Bill
hey So this is actually kind of funny is this kind of leans into this whole, this whole people are minding their own business sort of thing. And um you and I have talked a little bit about Howard Stern over the years.

01:05:39.63
Bill
I know I'd always come up in in conversation and I don't know that in not it to, for the point of this story, it doesn't really, this question doesn't really fucking it matter, but what is your opinion of him?

01:05:42.28
Mike
Sure.

01:05:50.18
Bill
Cause I guess I don't even know.

01:05:52.25
Mike
um i mean you know back in his heyday i was a fan i listened all the time yeah yeah yeah you know i mean he's he's certainly pivot pivoted and uh he's doing something different and whatever people grow people change whatever yes but back in the you know and when he was you know king of all media um yeah i was a fan absolutely

01:05:56.60
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:06:07.02
Bill
Right.

01:06:13.63
Bill
Right. And I, when, when we've, and the reason I didn't know for sure, well, I didn't think you hated them because I, that's a pretty easy bar to figure out for you. um Because usually if I just end up talking about somebody that you don't care for, you're like, yeah, you know, it's, you, you, you don't hide it very well, I guess is my, is my point.

01:06:27.93
Mike
ne Yeah, right. Right.

01:06:33.88
Mike
i don't.

01:06:34.95
Bill
You know, there's no reason for you.

01:06:35.78
Mike
Nope.

01:06:36.63
Bill
There's no reason for you to do it. Oops, I gotta hang on. I gotta write down another, another name here.

01:06:40.90
Mike
Squirrel. Yes. Yes.

01:06:42.87
Bill
God, these things just pop into my head. See, squirrel. But let me write that down.

01:06:45.90
Mike
squirrel yes

01:06:46.82
Bill
But so I just saw the article yesterday or the day before, and I'm of the same opinion. I haven't really paid too much attention to Howard Stern in years, but back to like when his movie came out and, you know, in his heyday, I loved I love that movie because I, you know, seeing the story, even though it was Hollywooded up and all that sort of thing.

01:06:54.61
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:06:57.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:04.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:04.90
Bill
Um, it just, it, it was just, it was a, he was a success story and certainly at that time, but certainly at any time you could, you could line him up with almost anyone from, from that, well, almost any industry.

01:07:12.92
Mike
Right.

01:07:17.00
Bill
He was a success story and did the work and it got to where he was.

01:07:17.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:20.44
Bill
And in my opinion, he fucking earned every, every, every status point and every dime that he earns.

01:07:20.82
Mike
Absolutely.

01:07:27.00
Bill
That's, that's my own opinion.

01:07:27.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:28.16
Bill
So here's the article recently.

01:07:28.55
Mike
Sure.

01:07:30.29
Bill
It says, um, And I see this headline and and it's been all over the fucking place. I don't know if you've seen it, but well, maybe clearly not because you haven't brought it up yet.

01:07:35.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. No.

01:07:38.34
Bill
But apparently he's scaling down. He cut a bunch of his staff, like 12, 15 people and and all this different stuff and going down to one live broadcast a week.

01:07:43.78
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:07:49.04
Bill
I don't know how many he was doing before. So when one, I was just like, eh, it doesn't. i bear Apparently he was doing more than one.

01:07:56.47
Mike
Yes.

01:07:57.19
Bill
Um, but, um, the thing of it is that reading these articles, these headlines are, you know, Howard Stern cut staff, Howard Stern. It's like this, this mindset that he's being selfish and doing all this stuff.

01:08:08.21
Mike
Mm.

01:08:08.55
Bill
He's getting a bunch of fucking grief over cutting staff. Okay.

01:08:11.37
Mike
Right.

01:08:12.18
Bill
So I did one search kind of like a, like a Google search. Just ask the question. like, why do people fucking care what Howard Stern is doing?

01:08:18.48
Mike
Eh.

01:08:20.73
Bill
Why are people making such a big deal out of it?

01:08:21.08
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:08:23.16
Bill
And all that it did, it gave me a rundown of he's been doing this for 40 years. Okay.

01:08:28.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:28.76
Bill
Which is kind of cool. They still did, you know, refer to him as the, you know, maybe the once or whatever, the king of all media, blah, blah, blah.

01:08:29.91
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:35.52
Bill
Um, he did this with his deals and and blah, blah, blah.

01:08:35.75
Mike
Eh.

01:08:38.97
Bill
And this is what he's doing and scaling down. And, you know, people are basically thinking that this is his, you know, kind of his ride into the sunset type of thing. But then the other thing they're saying is that he just signed a new deal, I guess a new three-year deal or whatever it was for X number of dollars.

01:08:54.79
Bill
Okay. And it was, it was a fucking lot.

01:08:55.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:56.59
Bill
Okay.

01:08:56.91
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:08:57.62
Bill
So I'm reading this and I'm like, okay, that doesn't tell me anything. So this guy's making decisions about his business.

01:09:01.83
Mike
Yeah.

01:09:04.49
Bill
Then I read a couple of the articles and it's just, people are just giving him grief for cutting staff. Okay.

01:09:09.33
Mike
Yeah.

01:09:09.88
Bill
And then I'm like, who the fuck are you?

01:09:13.50
Mike
yeah

01:09:14.26
Bill
to tell this guy what to do with it. I'm like, curiosity-wise, because I couldn't remember. i I'm sure I looked it up at one point. I looked up his net worth. So what do you think his net worth is? Just guess.

01:09:23.66
Mike
Oh, easily, you know, a couple hundred million.

01:09:28.34
Bill
Triple that 650 million.

01:09:29.02
Mike
Okay.

01:09:31.67
Bill
Okay.

01:09:31.89
Mike
Okay.

01:09:32.85
Bill
But now here, here's the thing. And here's the article that I thought was really good that I, that I read. They said, however, when I looked up that worth, it said, but he pays for everything for a show's production.

01:09:45.21
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:09:45.98
Bill
Okay. So he's got to deal with Sirius and they're like, okay, Howard. And I remember this from the start. I didn't remember it in exact details, but when he took that deal, he was one of the, I guess, one of the pioneers of this whole part of Sirius XM.

01:09:57.53
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:09:58.90
Bill
And they gave him a ton of fucking money to begin with, but they're like, okay, we're going give you this, but you got to pay for fucking everything.

01:09:59.23
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right.

01:10:04.76
Mike
Right.

01:10:04.85
Bill
You know, we're not, we're not doing anything. We got to pay you to your student staff, everything, fucking everything.

01:10:09.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:10:10.37
Bill
So after all said and done, um, shows production, the payroll, everything that goes into running this thing that he does, all these different arms of everything he does, he ends up with, and I, I say this cause I mean, this is all relevant.

01:10:10.58
Mike
Right.

01:10:18.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:23.63
Bill
Okay. Or relative ends up with 40 million per year.

01:10:24.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:27.94
Bill
Okay.

01:10:28.27
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:10:29.46
Bill
So out of this $650 that he's worth, he makes he still makes about $40 million a year. But, I mean, he's got this this massive worth, but he's spending a lot of fucking money because he's doing all this other stuff.

01:10:35.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:42.70
Mike
Right.

01:10:43.16
Bill
So my thought was is that – Not everyone. A lot of people, when they get to a certain age, you know, they had ah they had a big house because they had their kids and they had their whatever.

01:10:53.37
Mike
Right.

01:10:54.04
Bill
How many people do you know that go from a house to a condo, house to an apartment, house to some smaller thing like that, right?

01:10:57.30
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, right.

01:11:01.05
Bill
How many people go from two cars to one car or they're not driving a Lexus anymore, now they're driving a Malibu, you know?

01:11:04.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:07.67
Mike
Right.

01:11:08.05
Bill
And whatever the case is, they get down to this point and everyone scales back, right? Maybe they're not paying for the housekeeper anymore.

01:11:12.34
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:14.45
Bill
Maybe they're not doing all these different things.

01:11:16.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:17.43
Bill
what is the fucking difference in what he's doing?

01:11:19.67
Mike
Yeah, no none. Right.

01:11:20.76
Bill
that's that's mike That's my question.

01:11:22.33
Mike
Right. and and and And clearly, you know, he's his his business is smaller. He's doing one day a week. He doesn't need all his fucking extra staff. You know, yeah, you you make your your business is smaller.

01:11:33.05
Bill
Right.

01:11:35.49
Mike
You don't have 14 stores. You have one store. So you're going to pay all the people that were working in the 14 stores when you only have one store? Right. Yeah, no.

01:11:45.79
Mike
yeah yeah Yeah, you know, who fucking cares?

01:11:45.91
Bill
hey

01:11:50.59
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's how, well, that's when you go back to, you know, when you're talking about, um, you know, the, these, um, rock and pop and rap stars, you know, they have these posses, you talk about, you know, sports figures that have all these different, you know, staff and everyone they're paying and, you know, they end up making, you know, literally hundreds of millions of dollars over their career And then they end up, you know, either filing bankruptcy or fucking broke at some point, you know, like where'd all the goddamn money go?

01:12:02.65
Mike
Sure.

01:12:12.15
Mike
Right, right.

01:12:13.56
Bill
Well, you had, you were paying all these people for all these years.

01:12:14.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:16.52
Bill
Um, you know, shame on fucking you, you know, it's really what it comes down to.

01:12:16.68
Mike
Yeah. Right?

01:12:19.92
Bill
So I don't know.

01:12:20.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:20.88
Bill
It just, cause I look at even, even with, I think it's, I mean, it's tragic when people lose their jobs. Don't get me wrong. I've been part of the same thing.

01:12:26.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:28.00
Bill
When, when I started, there was that company in Brookfield that I worked for and I got, I got hired on as a, um, as a second manager in this call center, which is big.

01:12:31.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:35.88
Bill
They have 50 some people. And they brought me in based on um future growth.

01:12:37.44
Mike
Right.

01:12:41.01
Bill
It was going to happen within the next six months.

01:12:41.60
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:12:44.50
Bill
Okay.

01:12:44.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:44.73
Bill
So when they did that, you know, new clients met new new staff and all this different stuff that we're building up. Okay.

01:12:51.20
Mike
Yep.

01:12:51.46
Bill
So I start in May and then it gets into the end of the summer when these, this first round of things are going to come in. And then these clients are going to come in. They get pushed from, you know, quarter, well, it went from quarter two to quarter three and now quarter three maybe happens a quarter four.

01:13:05.21
Bill
If not, it's going be pushed into one or two of next year.

01:13:07.93
Mike
Right.

01:13:08.05
Bill
And then I start seeing them, you know, that these are, you know, these non-essential staff members. So this is a company that they prided themselves on and they were in business for that point, 20 years, had never laid off a person ever.

01:13:17.37
Mike
m Right.

01:13:19.86
Bill
You know, it's one of the, one of the selling points to go to work there. You know, um I'm not really worried about it, but still.

01:13:23.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:26.17
Bill
So, um you know, frontline staff, this and that, all these people start, start losing jobs. I should not, not that it would have mattered, but I should have saw it coming. um I was one of the ones where i got brought in and I was just, I was a manager.

01:13:33.26
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:36.92
Bill
I'm not making, you know, $300,000 a year, but I'm getting paid a decent salary.

01:13:39.70
Mike
Right.

01:13:40.96
Bill
and And basically I was brought in to, you know, cover this new stuff that's coming in. This don't, no longer to be there.

01:13:46.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:47.38
Bill
Or when it when it is, it may not be another six months.

01:13:47.61
Mike
Right.

01:13:50.26
Bill
So I got to let go.

01:13:50.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:13:53.21
Bill
You know, and I sat there with in the office with my manager and with HR and I said, um they're like, oh, we're so sorry.

01:13:53.61
Mike
Right.

01:13:59.45
Bill
My manager at that time, I thought she was going to cry because we had it we had a good working relationship and she was one of the sweetest people ever.

01:14:00.45
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:14:06.20
Bill
And I looked at her and I looked at the HR person.

01:14:06.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:08.00
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, I'm not happy about this. You know, I'm not going to skip out on here.

01:14:10.39
Mike
Sure.

01:14:11.76
Bill
But I said, I understand the business decision.

01:14:11.96
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:14:14.32
Bill
I really do. And I mean, I'm not I'm not mad at you.

01:14:15.16
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:17.12
Bill
I mean, how could I be, you know?

01:14:19.26
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I thought there was going to be more work. There wasn't, and we don't need you anymore.

01:14:25.53
Bill
Yeah, it's like, okay.

01:14:26.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:27.16
Bill
But I don't know. it's just It was so fucking weird to me. I'm like, it just thiss this is what this is what this this fucking pansy-ass society of ours is in some ways now.

01:14:35.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:36.27
Bill
why It's none of your fucking business what Howard Stern does, and it's none of your fucking business what IBM or Microsoft or any of these goddamn places.

01:14:43.35
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:44.27
Bill
All these places, are like they're like, oh, these companies are laying off people because you know AI is able to do it.

01:14:44.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:48.79
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:14:50.97
Bill
Yeah.

01:14:51.00
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:51.58
Bill
Okay. Yeah.

01:14:52.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:52.46
Bill
You know, a lot of people lost their fucking jobs when, um, you know, when again, you go back to the auto industry, when they started, you know, automating some of the things you go back to, you know, the computer age in general, take any piece of technology.

01:14:59.22
Mike
Right.

01:15:04.18
Bill
And probably when, when the microwave was invented, people lost their jobs at a goddamn restaurants, you know?

01:15:04.55
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:07.48
Mike
Sure. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, ask anybody in the buggy whip industry.

01:15:13.56
Bill
ah yeah Only so much only so much can be can be translated into porn.

01:15:16.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:20.20
Bill
So yeah, you're right.

01:15:20.82
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:15:21.17
Bill
Yeah.

01:15:21.78
Mike
You know, yeah. You know, that was a very popular product couple hundred yeah hundred years ago.

01:15:25.75
Bill
hey

01:15:27.29
Mike
Right. You know, yes. I'm sure there were factories. yeah um Right down here in Wadsworth, right? Ohio, south of here. um There's this huge old factory. It's beautiful.

01:15:37.30
Mike
um There's some other stuff in there. And I picked up some loads there a couple of years ago. um And I asked, you know, what was this place? Because, I mean, it's huge, fucking huge.

01:15:46.87
Bill
right

01:15:47.94
Mike
And, you know, brick and clearly old. it was built in, you know, like probably 1870 or something. It was the Blue Tip Match Company.

01:15:57.24
Bill
oh no shit right

01:15:57.43
Mike
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, you know, which was fucking huge. Matches were everywhere. You know, people, yeah, you know, the match industry isn't what it used to be. Yeah, you know, fucking A, man. Shit changes. that That's the way of the world. That's not fair. Fuck you.

01:16:15.54
Bill
Yeah, it just it just fucking is what it is. And and believe me, I mean, the the first thing that when all this AI shit started coming out, and I embrace it, you know, i embrace and i use it, I use it a lot, you know.

01:16:18.62
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:26.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:26.22
Bill
um But when I start, im I'm paying attention also because I i can see easily what what jobs. It literally, what it comes down to is, I don't want to say any job, but if if you do a job and you're in an office and you're sitting in front of a computer all day and basically pressing buttons and doing repetitive work The same things repetitively like that.

01:16:43.26
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:16:47.48
Mike
Right.

01:16:48.46
Bill
You're going lose your job at some point or um you're it's going to be your your department of 50 is going to be five, you know, in the funny part is, is it so here here's the other thing I thought was funny, which people are now people are up in arms, you know, about that I read over the last couple of months.

01:16:50.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:55.32
Mike
Right.

01:17:03.85
Bill
Is that, um and I don't know whether it was, let's go, i don't know, Microsoft, um Facebook, any of these companies that uses a lot of like programmers and shit like that, you know, and coders.

01:17:03.96
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:17:12.91
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:17:14.93
Bill
So they hired up, all these companies had to during COVID.

01:17:15.10
Mike
Right.

01:17:18.82
Bill
So you figure what, handful of years ago, um had to staff because everyone went remote and everyone's like, everything boomed, right? And then they slowly scaled back.

01:17:25.66
Mike
Right.

01:17:27.63
Bill
And then all these people got got let go at a certain point. But there's certain people, some of these companies that maybe, i don't know, over the last five years, they laid off in the big companies.

01:17:38.67
Bill
Maybe it's twenty five hundred people. They're like, we're we're break we got to, you know, there's a thousand or fifteen hundred new openings.

01:17:40.82
Mike
Right.

01:17:46.20
Bill
and it's because of AI now they're bringing in these people to train them up because that's the next thing.

01:17:48.56
Mike
Right.

01:17:50.36
Bill
they need this They need this baseline, this foundation of staff members now that understand this shit and can help them compete.

01:17:52.94
Mike
Right.

01:17:57.95
Bill
you know

01:17:58.17
Mike
this

01:17:59.06
Bill
And it fucking is what it is.

01:18:03.64
Mike
right

01:18:04.31
Bill
So I don't know.

01:18:05.18
Mike
Yeah, yeah, that phone in your hand, ask the people that used to work for Kodak how that's working out for them.

01:18:05.35
Bill
It's just.

01:18:10.52
Mike
You know, yeah, right.

01:18:10.88
Bill
Right.

01:18:11.22
Mike
I mean, it's just shit changes. Yes, you know, and, and you know, i yeah, there's always going to be jobs.

01:18:13.56
Bill
Right.

01:18:17.40
Mike
There's always, you know the world needs ditch diggers, too. um And, yes, there's machinery that helps you dig a ditch.

01:18:20.66
Bill
Right.

01:18:24.76
Mike
You don't need a shovel anymore. You have a whatever. But. You know, and it's, and you can probably program a machine to dig a ditch. Um, so, okay, good.

01:18:35.01
Bill
Right.

01:18:35.55
Mike
I don't want to go out and dig a ditch anyway. So I've dug ditches.

01:18:37.69
Bill
yeah

01:18:40.78
Mike
you know, my first job was for a commercial landscaping company.

01:18:41.40
Bill
okay

01:18:44.58
Mike
It was, it was taking, they were building, like we'd go in where they were building new apartment buildings and we put it in the sprinkler systems and shit like that.

01:18:51.45
Bill
Oh, I remember you telling me that.

01:18:51.94
Mike
And yeah, yeah, yeah. It was fucking awful, but it was, uh, yeah, you know, yeah. to take a trench shovel and fucking dig a trench to put a line in to put a sprinkler line in yeah was fucking wonderful it was fun I don't want to do that anymore so you know fine I hope so there's some technology and I don't want anybody else to do it because it sucked so you know

01:19:06.79
Bill
Right.

01:19:13.46
Bill
yeah

01:19:16.98
Mike
yes ah you shit changes let's move on we've changed the world changes okay let Howard Stern change too

01:19:20.41
Bill
Right. Exactly.

01:19:26.42
Bill
Yeah, i just it it just you know blew my mind. Mind your own fucking business was my was my whole thought pattern.

01:19:31.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:31.66
Bill
So I found the, I'm actually glancing through here, and I found the, I wrote down the line that I got from Sober Friends. So we didn't talk about what Steve said from Sober Friends. He said this, and he he admitted, just like we do, he heard this from somebody else, I think in a, was in a speaker meeting that they went to, or lead meeting.

01:19:48.62
Bill
He said that the the guy at the podium said, there's a difference between being sober and having sobriety. Which I thought I've never heard it put that way, but it's exactly what we were talking about, you know, but put a different way. And it was just something, I just liked how that was put, you know, okay.

01:20:07.24
Bill
Cause I used to, I said this a number of times, you know, you see these signs, you know, drive sober, get pulled over. I'm like, yeah, just cause you didn't drink today.

01:20:11.90
Mike
Right.

01:20:13.22
Bill
You're not sober. God damn it.

01:20:14.36
Mike
Right. Right.

01:20:15.10
Bill
It's a lifestyle, but it's not.

01:20:15.20
Mike
Aha.

01:20:16.26
Bill
So, so this kind of changed my mindset.

01:20:16.73
Mike
ah

01:20:18.06
Bill
So sober isn't a lifestyle. Sobriety is, you know, and there, there's a difference between, between those two things.

01:20:20.82
Mike
who

01:20:23.58
Bill
So again, just thought, thought that was kind of interesting.

01:20:23.67
Mike
right

01:20:26.21
Bill
and that ties back to, you know, we were yipping and yapping about whatever it was a half hour ago.

01:20:29.62
Mike
excuse you

01:20:31.29
Bill
So, so speaking of old school, have you heard it I heard about this um in the, in the meeting, the sober curator meeting last week.

01:20:31.45
Mike
aha

01:20:39.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:39.98
Bill
Elise was talking about their, they do this whole backstage thing, blah, blah, blah, this whole membership only thing that and they were doing, it you know, she's open about it.

01:20:44.52
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:20:47.66
Bill
They were doing it to try to um at least, you know, cover some of the overhead costs of the website, but give people something for it, blah, blah, blah.

01:20:52.54
Mike
Sure.

01:20:55.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:55.16
Bill
And, you know, she's just honest. She's like, it's, we're not getting as much traffic as we, as we were or thought we would. And she's like, maybe it's because of this, you know, the analog summer.

01:21:00.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:03.88
Bill
i'm like, what the hell is analog summer? Never heard about it.

01:21:05.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:07.29
Bill
So I looked it up and apparently these people are on, ah these people, people are on this, this thing now where get away from the screens that go out, just be, you know, be how you used to be, you know, um take a walk, go to a park, do whatever.

01:21:18.52
Mike
Sure.

01:21:21.62
Bill
And then I started thinking about it.

01:21:22.10
Mike
Well.

01:21:23.34
Bill
I'm like, we're as close to analog as any other pot is any podcast out there.

01:21:27.32
Mike
Sure.

01:21:28.19
Bill
don't have to watch this. don't have to do whatever. So I went into, you know, obviously our, our overlord at chat GPT and started looking at some stuff. And I don't know if you noticed it, but over the last couple of days, I've been, I've been posting some stuff about that.

01:21:39.41
Bill
So, and I'm going to keep doing it. So if, I mean, once again, we just were, it's not like I'm, I don't try to be sneaky with whatever quote unquote promotions or posts that I do. But that's the reason, you know, I mean, i don't listen to anything when I go hiking, you know, or when I go walk or anything like that.

01:21:47.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:52.83
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:21:55.04
Bill
But I know a lot of people that do. And, and I just think about the difference. And this is just, you know, one more advantage of us being an audio podcast is that, you know, you, you can listen to us.

01:22:05.54
Bill
You don't have to, you don't have to watch what we're doing because you can't see anything. So why not just, you know, that's the whole point of the promotion.

01:22:09.14
Mike
Right.

01:22:11.90
Bill
Get out there, go fucking do something and listen to us along the way.

01:22:12.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:15.42
Bill
So, so there.

01:22:15.74
Mike
Yeah, so there.

01:22:18.23
Bill
So yeah, we're, we're kind of, we're kind of like fitting in again by fucking accident fitting into this, this whole analog, whatever fucking bullshit is out there.

01:22:22.84
Mike
Exactly.

01:22:28.38
Bill
Okay. One more sobriety thing that I got two more, two more things that kind of made me, well, one more thing that made me chuckle. Keep it simple.

01:22:34.78
Mike
Hmm.

01:22:35.30
Bill
Just because everything is different doesn't mean anything has changed. Okay. So this was, um again, from Keep It Simple. I'll read that again. Just because everything is different doesn't mean anything has changed.

01:22:48.49
Bill
The reading was talking about being a dry drug.

01:22:49.03
Mike
hmm.

01:22:51.38
Bill
Okay.

01:22:51.54
Mike
Yeah. Mm

01:22:52.41
Bill
So my question to you is um basically the the idea of ah the dry drunk idea, number one, kind of what it is in case people don't know.

01:23:02.86
Bill
And I'll ask a secondary question in a minute.

01:23:03.02
Mike
hmm.

01:23:05.42
Bill
So for for people who don't know, what is what is a dry drunk?

01:23:09.84
Mike
A dry drunk is, um yeah, you know, you stop drinking, you stop using whatever, but you don't change anything. You're still a fucking asshole. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, that's it.

01:23:23.05
Mike
You're not trying to be a better person. You're not making changes in your life. You're not changing your thinking. You're not changing your actions. You just, you're fucking, yeah. Oh, God, that sounds so horrible.

01:23:34.18
Mike
ski i just I just got the chills thinking about it.

01:23:34.52
Bill
hey

01:23:36.86
Mike
um Yeah, you know, they yeah, you know, that's just it. You dry. you're not You're not drinking anymore. You're not using drugs, but you're the same old asshole that you are.

01:23:47.99
Mike
You're still selfish and self-centered and and causing havoc and destruction and being that tornado, even though you're, you're quote, unquote, sober.

01:23:54.43
Bill
Right.

01:23:57.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:58.20
Bill
Yeah. So again, surprisingly what we were talking about before, and I, I just, with the reading and I just had this written down and you know, it just, I don't, I'm sure that we've, I know we've used that term on here. I just don't know if we ever specifically talked about it.

01:24:08.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:09.88
Bill
So my, my next question is that, you know, let's say in, in this run, cause I know that you've had your other, you've dipped your toe in this whole sobriety thing in the past.

01:24:10.04
Mike
Right.

01:24:18.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:18.14
Bill
So in this run from, you know, April of 2010 through now, do you, have you ever experienced anything like that where you felt that, that you were operating that way at all, even a little bit, or, or have you ever dealt with it?

01:24:18.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:31.77
Mike
What, being a dry drunk?

01:24:33.30
Bill
Correct. Correct.

01:24:33.94
Mike
Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah.

01:24:35.99
Bill
ah

01:24:36.54
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

01:24:38.04
Bill
yeah

01:24:39.46
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:40.06
Bill
hey

01:24:40.38
Mike
you know yeah he Dipping my toe into the the sobriety thing. guess going to a Sitting in a couple of church basements and you know and and yeah not actively drinking, but God.

01:24:52.92
Mike
god Yes, and I was miserable and and, yeah, didn't change anything, didn't try to be better. Still expecting the world to take care of me and and all that happy crap. Oh, yeah, it's awful.

01:25:04.63
Mike
No, no, thank you.

01:25:04.98
Bill
Right. Well, and, you know, and the funny part is that I thought about it with, ah and we've talked about the in the the story of, you know, it could it be that simple? And, you know, and I was about nine months sober when we had that.

01:25:14.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:16.89
Bill
And for anyone who doesn't know the story, it's just, it is really fucking simple.

01:25:17.35
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:25:20.86
Bill
I i couldn't understand the concept. I was trying to find the magic, the magic potion, the the cheat code, whatever you want to call it.

01:25:23.90
Mike
citizenson

01:25:27.31
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

01:25:30.10
Bill
I was trying to find the key to this whole thing other than just, um you know of course, not drinking, going to meetings, praying and trying to help another alcoholic.

01:25:32.70
Mike
Right. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:25:38.58
Bill
Those are the three things that we were already always told.

01:25:38.87
Mike
Right.

01:25:40.94
Bill
You know, obviously, you know, go to meetings, pray, try to help another alcoholic.

01:25:41.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:43.54
Mike
Yep.

01:25:45.51
Bill
That's it.

01:25:45.80
Mike
Yep.

01:25:46.17
Bill
And you've got a pretty goddamn good opportunity to stay sober.

01:25:46.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:48.93
Bill
So, you know, my friend Mike over here, this is what he was poor, poor Mike.

01:25:49.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:53.41
Bill
is He's out there driving, you know on the road for probably two, three weeks. And, um, you know, I gets back and I'm going out of my fucking mind, you know, and I'm like, this person's going out and they're doing this and they're doing that.

01:26:00.54
Mike
Right.

01:26:03.59
Bill
And I can't figure this shit out. You know, then I say those three things. I'm like, we're told to this, this, and this, could it be that simple? And my friend Mike says, and the motherfucker walked away.

01:26:11.51
Mike
yes

01:26:14.68
Mike
yeah and it was earlier that i wasn't driving yet i was working yeah no it was yeah yeah yeah we were we were at fucking cecilia house we're three-quarter house man um yeah

01:26:14.71
Bill
Yep.

01:26:19.96
Bill
Oh, so yeah. night Yeah. Nine months. say you wouldn't be met Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were. ah So I'm thinking of the other one with the, with the gratitude list.

01:26:32.62
Bill
Cause when I was, um, yeah, when i was like a year and a half sober, um, the same thing, you know, you got back from being off, being on the road and I'm in the same, same thing.

01:26:33.75
Mike
yeah that was yeah um yes yes

01:26:41.66
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, I, there's nothing that's making me happy anymore.

01:26:42.07
Mike
e a

01:26:45.21
Bill
going to work, family, friends, meetings.

01:26:47.29
Mike
Right. Yep.

01:26:48.62
Bill
There's nothing that I said, I can't, I can't find any fucking joy in anything.

01:26:53.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:26:53.46
Bill
And I don't know if I said it right away, but I think it was understood that I'm like, it wasn't, I didn't want to drink.

01:26:55.67
Mike
Yeah. hmm.

01:26:59.30
Bill
I just didn't understand, you know?

01:26:59.77
Mike
Right. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, yeah, you exactly. well Like you said, yeah we were probably about a year and a half at that point, whatever, maybe even closer to two.

01:27:08.03
Bill
Right.

01:27:09.70
Mike
And um yeah, because we had our own place at that point. And um yeah, right.

01:27:13.43
Bill
Right.

01:27:14.89
Mike
Yeah. You were just, you know, it wasn't. You weren't grateful. Yeah.

01:27:19.85
Bill
Right.

01:27:20.09
Mike
You know, doing the stuff and doing the next right thing. And, and, and yes, it was all getting better, but you weren't recognizing it. You know, you were still, you were still caught up in your own shit, man.

01:27:32.51
Mike
Caught up in your own head. You know, your head was up your ass, man. And, uh, every, everywhere you looked, all you saw was yourself.

01:27:36.53
Bill
Yep.

01:27:40.31
Mike
You know, you weren't seeing all the, the the good stuff that was happening to the people around you.

01:27:40.73
Bill
Right.

01:27:45.13
Mike
You know, you weren't, you, weren't recognizing that you know your sister was sleeping at night and your mom was sleeping at night and they were they were comfortable because we were fucking doing the next right thing and and you just didn't recognize it because you were still wrapped up in yourself you didn't realize the value of what you were doing to other people it didn't it didn't make sense to you at that point yet yeah i get that and yeah i just yeah fucking make a goddamn gratitude list man

01:28:01.31
Bill
Right.

01:28:08.71
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:28:13.30
Bill
Yeah. And, and that's exactly what he, that's, that's exactly what Mike said.

01:28:14.84
Mike
Pull your head out and look around.

01:28:18.78
Bill
He goes, you could need to do a gratitude list. And, and the thing of it was, is I, I don't believe that I had never heard about that before at that point. I think it would be nearly impossible, but I had never done one, you know, and i did, I sat down and I did it like a, like a pros and cons list and blah, blah, blah.

01:28:28.38
Mike
Right. Right.

01:28:33.01
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:28:34.72
Bill
And I remember doing that. I wrote down, you know all the things, you know, it's like, and when I, when I did the gratitude list, list then, and when I've done one since, which has been a little while, Um, but as I, as I write it down, I'm like, I'm like, I don't want to have, I don't want to have a possessions.

01:28:38.66
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:28:49.30
Bill
i don't want to have material things, you know?

01:28:49.82
Mike
Right Mm-hmm Yeah Mm-hmm Uh-huh Right Right

01:28:51.14
Bill
So I was like, okay, you know, my, obviously my, ah my son, my daughter, the family, whatever it was, I'm writing down all these different things and relationships. And I, I did put down a job just because I, you know, I've now I'm employable.

01:29:03.70
Bill
I think I use that. That might've been the only one that was kind of material thing. So that was all on, on the pro list and on the con side of things, I couldn't think of anything bad. oh oh the the title of my gratitude list was, you know, why should I be grateful for being sober or something like that?

01:29:18.29
Mike
Mm-hmm Mm-hmm

01:29:19.13
Bill
So then all I put on on the right-hand side was, I like, all this goes away without sobriety. And I put a fucking arrow to the left and I put it in my drawer.

01:29:25.59
Mike
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:29:28.43
Bill
Yeah.

01:29:29.91
Mike
Right.

01:29:30.20
Bill
and And I was like, okay, that's, I get it now, you know?

01:29:32.57
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:29:33.91
Bill
But yeah, it's just, it's it it really was.

01:29:35.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:35.99
Bill
It was, so those are two times. I mean, then in, again, early sobriety. And i I know that, well, there was one other time where we were talking about with Lane, the fucked up relationships that all of us had at five years.

01:29:40.25
Mike
yeah

01:29:44.22
Mike
m easy

01:29:47.28
Bill
At that time, that individual that I, because I did, I went kind of a little, I didn't go nuts on her, but I just, I was unkind with my words, but not cruel, you know?

01:29:47.38
Mike
right yeah

01:29:53.21
Mike
o

01:29:56.76
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

01:29:58.25
Bill
And, you know, basically, I remember I remember saying to her, literally, I said, you just I said, I'm so sorry, because I'm like, you literally got to experience what it's like to for me to be drunk without having any booze.

01:30:08.79
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:09.11
Bill
You know, and that's that's a dry drug. That is exactly what it is.

01:30:11.09
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

01:30:11.71
Bill
You know, but I these are just I I'm not making an excuse about it's just a fact. I had not dealt with that type of emotion or situation up to that point.

01:30:16.01
Mike
Mm

01:30:21.07
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

01:30:21.88
Bill
I wasn't prepared and I went back to my default, which was attack.

01:30:24.75
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right.

01:30:27.38
Bill
Well, you fucking whore.

01:30:29.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:30.55
Bill
how How dare you?

01:30:32.38
Mike
Yes.

01:30:32.43
Bill
Which I didn't call her a whore. So just everyone settle the fuck down.

01:30:34.78
Mike
Right. Right. Uh-huh.

01:30:38.68
Bill
Now she's, she was lovely. She didn't do anything wrong. I just, I just, yeah, I kind of went off on her about whatever.

01:30:41.30
Mike
Yeah. Hmm.

01:30:43.70
Bill
the only I think it was when I went off on her and if i I'm remembering correctly is that, you know, shit went bad and then we hadn't talked for a couple of months and all it was, she texted me to wish me, wish me a happy anniversary.

01:30:51.17
Mike
Hmm.

01:30:55.89
Mike
Hmm.

01:30:56.44
Bill
And I felt, I'm like, Oh, Oh, so i don't hear for you for months.

01:30:58.98
Mike
Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:31:00.92
Bill
And now I get this.

01:31:01.46
Mike
Well.

01:31:02.20
Bill
Oh, Oh, you're going to congratulate me on sobriety.

01:31:02.42
Mike
right

01:31:05.48
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that that was me at five five years. No, that is I'm sorry.

01:31:09.56
Mike
okay

01:31:10.55
Bill
That was my six-year anniversary, so five going into the six years.

01:31:13.27
Mike
ah

01:31:13.40
Bill
Yeah, fucking A. Hey, aren't you glad you know me?

01:31:16.86
Mike
this this

01:31:17.46
Bill
But I apologize. We're all good. We're all good.

01:31:19.48
Mike
yeah

01:31:19.58
Bill
I messaged her, i don't know, it was probably four or five months ago to see how she was doing. Her kids are growing up. They're all in college. One's fucking married now, and she's got a whole bunch of shit going on, which ah is all positives in her life.

01:31:26.20
Mike
well

01:31:29.46
Bill
But i don't know. It's all good stuff. So anyhow, I think we're good.

01:31:35.26
Mike
who

01:31:36.04
Bill
we're good

01:31:36.79
Mike
ah Yeah, yeah.

01:31:37.98
Bill
he

01:31:38.11
Mike
Well, other than the headache and the burning throat and the burning eyes, yeah, I'm fucking wonderful.

01:31:42.33
Bill
Right. Okay. Okay, cool. But I guess let me let me let me step back. Okay. Are we good for the amount of stuff that we've done tonight towards this podcast?

01:31:47.06
Mike
All right.

01:31:50.72
Mike
Yes, yes.

01:31:52.02
Bill
Is our work complete for the tonight, Mike? Can we wrap up? Are you are you good to go on that?

01:31:55.80
Mike
yes yes

01:31:56.28
Bill
All right. Your turn.

01:32:00.03
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening o who listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. always, be kind to each other. be good to each other. out and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:32:19.38
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:32:33.82
Mike
Now it's time. Now it is time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:32:48.98
Mike
Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

01:32:57.62
Bill
Yeah. And, uh, yeah, trying to try to get some, I don't know, hopefully, uh, some of this shit's, uh, I heard that some of this stuff's supposed to blow through, I think over the last next couple of days, hopefully.

01:33:06.62
Mike
yeah we're supposed to have one more day of this shit, and then it's supposed to get a little better.

01:33:06.82
Bill
So,

01:33:09.82
Bill
oh, is it? Okay.

01:33:10.50
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:33:10.66
Bill
Okay. Yeah. Just crazy. So wherever I fear in fucking Minnesota or Canada, quit burning shit. So you're, you're fucking with, you're fucking with everyone.

01:33:16.57
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:33:18.30
Bill
So, yeah.

01:33:19.16
Mike
Only you can prevent forest fires.

01:33:21.30
Bill
Exactly. So, and in last thing here, um i don't know if you, if you want to tell somebody else about us, feel free because, you know, just remember we are in now. We are a top three.

01:33:32.53
Bill
Yeah.

01:33:33.27
Mike
That's right. We're on the podium. You can't take that away from us. We're fucking at least third. We're at least bronzing in this motherfucker.

01:33:38.71
Bill
yeah I like that. bron at least bronzing in the, at least, that'll end up being one of our promotions.

01:33:42.97
Mike
good.

01:33:47.42
Mike
ah good

01:33:48.37
Bill
Well, in a minimum, at least we're bronzing in one of these motherfuckers.

01:33:51.54
Mike
That's right.

01:33:52.38
Bill
So yeah, so you know what? Hey, if you're if you're new and you got through this far, i don't know, why don't you stop back again next week? And if you if you've been around been around for a minute, i don't know, why don't you go on and give us some five fucking stars and tell a friend about us.

01:33:57.91
Mike
Yeah. Right. Like and share and and smash that like button and all that happy crap that you're supposed to do.

01:34:03.98
Bill
How's that?

01:34:10.58
Bill
Yeah, all that stuff. So, all right, man.

01:34:11.77
Mike
Right.

01:34:13.08
Bill
All right, brother. I love you.

01:34:14.39
Mike
I love you too.

01:34:15.67
BiI believe we'll talk soon.

01:34:17.40
Mike
We shall.

01:34:19.13
Bill
Bye.

01:34:20.20
Mike
Bye.