SoberNotMature - Episode 214 (Jacob S. - Functional Medicine & Disfunctional Podcasters)

00:00:01.62
Bill
All right, everyone.

00:00:02.56
Jacob
Definitely.

00:00:03.02
Bill
Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature.

00:00:05.56
Jacob
there ah yeah we have a guest done you know what's like fellow then i think you probably got yeah course i for forget about everything i didn't pay i' do no preparation whatsoever that's why i want do that you get to

00:00:08.10
Bill
And yes, we have a guest on. And you know what, Mike? It's a fellow cheesehead.

00:00:11.19
Mike
What?

00:00:12.26
Bill
I think you probably forgot about that, didn't you?

00:00:12.82
Mike
Of course, I forget about everything. I do no i do no preparation whatsoever.

00:00:15.90
Bill
hey Well, that's why I wanted to remind you that you got two cheese heads on this thing tonight, not just me.

00:00:21.98
Jacob
been be that we got jacob i here the definite

00:00:23.06
Mike
Wonderful.

00:00:23.78
Bill
We got, we got Jacob on here.

00:00:25.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:25.60
Bill
That's also a cheese head. So we'll, we'll probably get into that also, Jacob, but um yeah, we do have a guest and he's got a good story and I've got, um well, first of all, we want you to introduce yourself.

00:00:31.51
Mike
easy

00:00:34.10
Bill
And then I've got a couple of quick highlights.

00:00:36.34
Jacob
I want to know after you do that.

00:00:36.38
Bill
I want to, I want to note after you do that, but do us a favor, take up like a minute or two, just right off the bat, a brief introduction, who you are, where you're from, that sort of thing.

00:00:38.47
Jacob
But do a favor, take a minute or two, just right off the bat, a brief introduction, who you are, where you're from, that sort of thing, and then we'll get into your

00:00:45.19
Bill
And then we'll get into your actual full story. Okay.

00:00:48.31
Jacob
All right. Yeah, sounds good. My name is Jacob Schulze and my social media platform is at feel sober good. Feel underscore sober underscore good. And I'm from Wisconsin.

00:01:02.42
Jacob
um I'm on I'm on the other side of the state.

00:01:02.94
Bill
Yes.

00:01:04.62
Jacob
I'm on the West Central Wisconsin kind of near the Minnesota border. Big cheesehead fan and Packer fan for for a long time. And I Though I did I did have some strange years when Brett Favre went to the Vikings that some dark times, you know i was going through a dark, you know, so there might have been and some some.

00:01:12.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:19.93
Bill
ah

00:01:23.32
Jacob
I was very confused at that time, I guess, but let's put it that way.

00:01:25.69
Bill
hey

00:01:28.12
Jacob
But but yeah, no. ah um And yeah, so I struggled with um alcohol and um i ended up getting liver cirrhosis and was not able to get a liver transplant but i was i found hope and recovery through functional medicine and and some other things um and just have really uh embraced sobriety and found it just to be absolutely life-changing so there's a lot of uh lot of my messages is really about that and trying to kill the stigma, try to kill the shame so that people can get help that they need when before gets that

00:02:05.34
Jacob
Right. couple of highlights. it's of funny you know,

00:02:07.61
Mike
Right.

00:02:07.87
Bill
Right. Right.

00:02:08.50
Mike
Cool.

00:02:08.72
Bill
Absolutely. Well, perfect. So a couple of the quick highlights that we were talking a little bit before we started recording. And it's kind of funny because, you know, Jacob was asking us some questions about, hey, do you want to go over the structure a little bit?

00:02:19.36
Bill
Whatever. And anyone who's out there listening that's listened to us for a little bit is probably laughing right now because they realize that we have almost zero structure a little bit.

00:02:26.16
Jacob
laughing now.

00:02:26.68
Bill
But um pretty much almost no structure, but we are going to get into, um we're going to hear about a little bit of about your story.

00:02:29.49
Jacob
Okay.

00:02:33.21
Bill
We're gonna hear about your functional medicine, but I just wanted to to let let everyone know too. And, you know, obviously remind Mike, I think he remembers because we mentioned it a minute ago, but um you know, I listened to you on the Sober Motivation podcast and it's a guy, Brad, um I talk about him quite a bit.

00:02:48.57
Bill
I mentioned it, his episodes on here quite a bit. um I respect the hell out of him. I listen to his podcast literally every single week. And that's where I heard Jacob. And there's this piece about functional medicine that quite honestly, um didn't i didn't get enough information on it.

00:03:03.26
Mike
he

00:03:03.28
Bill
I was like, what is this stuff? And I even i asked Mike, because you didn't know what that was either, right, Mike? if i Okay.

00:03:07.74
Mike
Nope, I hadn't heard the term before.

00:03:09.72
Bill
Yeah, neither one of us had even heard the term, let alone knew what it was. So I'm like, I got to reach out to this dude and see if he wants to come on here. And I'll tell you, I can't remember. When's the last time we reached out to somebody, Mike? I mean, three years ago?

00:03:20.18
Mike
have we ever?

00:03:22.68
Bill
i think we did. Well, probably even just friends of ours. I don't even know that we've actually...

00:03:25.46
Mike
nor right Yeah, yeah, right.

00:03:26.32
Jacob
Well, I feel,

00:03:26.62
Mike
Yeah, that doesn't count. No, but actual like, you know, right.

00:03:28.12
Bill
Yeah.

00:03:29.74
Mike
Reaching out because yeah, you know, you heard the podcast and you want again, Hey, we're selfish and self-centered. You wanted to know more.

00:03:35.96
Bill
ah

00:03:37.30
Mike
You told me about it. I said, well, hell yeah. Now I want to know more. So here we are.

00:03:43.00
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So we, you just wanted to to let you know, and year yeah it's it's not that to say that i'm not trying to, you know, say you're special or anything, Jake, but kind of the situation is.

00:03:45.43
Jacob
like phil

00:03:51.68
Bill
So, um and on top of that, you're from, yeah, you're you're from Wisconsin too.

00:03:52.31
Jacob
well i feel i'm feeling very honored

00:03:55.35
Bill
So, I mean, I couldn't really go go wrong with that, but um we do, we've got a little bit, um actually a lot a bit of different ways of of how we, you know look at stories and things like that.

00:03:57.72
Mike
yeah

00:03:57.91
Jacob
Yeah.

00:04:04.15
Bill
It sounds like ah you've been worn down on your on your basic story. So this might be a good thing. But Mike, tell him how we tell stories and how we do things around this little this little corner of the world.

00:04:10.26
Mike
e

00:04:14.55
Mike
Absolutely. well We want to know about you, Jacob.

00:04:15.61
Jacob
We want to know about you, Jacob.

00:04:16.83
Mike
We want to know all the stuff, you know, little qualifications, always good because, you know, that's what we need to hear.

00:04:17.33
Jacob
We want to know all this stuff. You know, a little qualification is always good. That's what we here.

00:04:23.37
Mike
But we know how to get fucked up.

00:04:23.93
Jacob
But we know how to get fucked up.

00:04:26.41
Mike
We know how to fuck up our lives.

00:04:27.06
Jacob
We know how to fuck up our lives.

00:04:28.25
Mike
We know how to fuck up the lives of everyone around us.

00:04:28.49
Jacob
We know how to fuck up the lives of everyone around us.

00:04:31.01
Mike
We were really good at that.

00:04:31.92
Jacob
We're really good at that.

00:04:32.65
Mike
We know how to do it.

00:04:32.98
Jacob
We know how to do it.

00:04:33.85
Mike
We don't need that information.

00:04:33.92
Bill
Right.

00:04:34.12
Jacob
We don't need that information.

00:04:36.15
Mike
We're interested in the solution.

00:04:36.38
Jacob
We're interested in the solution.

00:04:38.23
Mike
So ah tell your story.

00:04:38.94
Jacob
So tell your story.

00:04:40.23
Mike
Absolutely.

00:04:40.48
Jacob
Absolutely.

00:04:40.83
Mike
Little qualification.

00:04:41.08
Jacob
little qualification.

00:04:42.27
Mike
But the bottom line is we hate drunkologs.

00:04:42.90
Jacob
But the bottom line is we hate drunk

00:04:45.43
Mike
So don't give us one, please. Mm-hmm.

00:04:49.24
Jacob
That sounds good. Yeah, no, i I'm with you on that. you know you you You know, it's definitely something that I think people, we tell that story because it helps people relate and and a lot of people, lot of people want to know like how bad was it?

00:05:02.92
Jacob
How like how did you get to this point?

00:05:03.89
Mike
Sure.

00:05:04.52
Jacob
you know And so I think there's ah there's definitely an interest in that and that's why it tends to be a popular you know starting point.

00:05:12.38
Mike
na

00:05:13.38
Jacob
and i and it it it but But a lot of times it doesn't allow it enough time to really get to the what I think is really the good stuff now, you know, and, and, and that has been a recovery.

00:05:20.98
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:05:21.71
Bill
Right.

00:05:25.46
Jacob
And in my case, some other means and different means that have, and the things that I've, I've experienced through sobriety and stuff.

00:05:30.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:34.20
Jacob
So, yeah.

00:05:35.28
Mike
Cool.

00:05:35.52
Jacob
So yeah, that's, that's it.

00:05:37.18
Mike
Lay it lay on us, man.

00:05:37.33
Jacob
So, okay.

00:05:38.58
Mike
Tell us what's up.

00:05:39.74
Bill
hey

00:05:40.34
Jacob
All right. Well, just like a little bit of a, for those of you who don't know my story, and um you, you can hear it on different, different podcasts and stuff like that too, but in more detail, but I, I'm, I am your,

00:05:57.91
Jacob
ah I am the type of drinker that wasn't like this instant addiction. It was very a slow process. You know, it was started out as just kind of the the traditional, you know, kids experimenting to teenagers to, you know, it's it's pretty, pretty great to have some drinks with your buddies and and have a good time and do some stupid stuff and and think it's, you know, it's funny and and and not really think about consequences or anything like that.

00:06:23.83
Bill
yeah

00:06:29.78
Jacob
And then it slowly progressed for me. um and And it was and I would say slow because, you know, I mean, i was always having drinks, but um but it usually was just like social gatherings or, you know, you have ah a beer at the end of the day of work and nothing, nothing crazy, you know, after I got through those teenage years and got married and and got a little bit.

00:06:53.94
Jacob
A little bit more responsible, you know, I'd like to think. And but then life, you know, kind of starts to to to catch up with you a little bit. And, um you know, you you you have more responsibilities as to you are building a family, you have.

00:07:11.19
Jacob
um more financial responsibilities you're trying to you know make make ends meet and then you have it kids and and then eventually you know i i had a um a more stressful job and and so you started using it i started using drinking instead of just for like fun and social and it started to become kind of that um

00:07:40.65
Jacob
uh coping way to cope with the stress you know and so and i and sometimes i would i would think that man like i'd bring work home sometimes and have some drinks and i'd think

00:07:43.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:43.86
Bill
Right.

00:07:53.12
Jacob
you know, I got, that's a really great idea. I feel a little like I, and I felt like the drinking made me more like creative, you know, or like it would, it would made me more open to like, fill it, do work on an evaluation and be a little more honest about it.

00:07:55.54
Bill
ah

00:07:55.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:08.94
Jacob
So I started kind of thinking it was like a, almost like a superpower a little bit to me. you know, and I'm like, man, this is, this is great. Plus I feel great when I'm doing it. So this can't be, but this isn't bad, you know, and, and I'm not overdoing it yet, you know, at this point.

00:08:17.30
Mike
sure mm-hmm

00:08:22.98
Jacob
And, but then you start to, boy, it's been a really stressful day. got to have that. I got to have a drink, you know, and it's, And it helps. And so, boy that helped last time.

00:08:35.01
Jacob
I think today was, then you start finding more reasons why you need that drink. And so so that's what it kind of turned into for me. And then it was like more and more often than looking for opportunities to drink.

00:08:48.78
Jacob
Maybe a little earlier in the day, Packers are playing, you know, why why not crack open, you know, a beer or six or whatever it is, you know, or I was more mixing drinks and stuff like that.

00:08:56.66
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:09:00.17
Jacob
And then And then at that point, you know, – um you are how many drinks are you having because how strong are you making them? So it it kind of evolved to that.

00:09:11.38
Jacob
Pandemic hit. That's when it really spiraled. A lot of stress. I was an essential worker. our business our Our work was very busy during that time.

00:09:23.48
Jacob
and um And so there was some long days, and then you just come home. That's all you can do, and you're just – Kevin Cousin, Ph.D.: exhausted, stressed out.

00:09:34.04
Jacob
You don't even know what's going on with the world and this pandemic. um You don't know what anything about it. And so all that stress and alcohol was kind of like the one thing that was fun, you know, and Kevin Cousin, Ph.D.: It, seemed like a great thing at the time. Well, it's, it's not a lot we can do other than just be home and have some drinks, you know?

00:09:54.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:55.94
Jacob
And so it that's how it evolved for me. And then it became this, a problem, you know, and to the point where I am hiding drinks and, and, and, and sneaking drinks and, and yeah, so it was, it got bad and,

00:10:18.23
Jacob
then it led to this real ah this real problem I had, and that is um liver cirrhosis. And so ah trying to to

00:10:36.09
Jacob
try to tell this story in a quick brief at cliff notes here.

00:10:39.03
Mike
yeah Yeah, it's okay.

00:10:39.63
Bill
No, no, no.

00:10:40.01
Jacob
I'm trying to i trying to gather gather my thoughts here, but

00:10:40.31
Bill
Yeah, you're, yeah, you're, you're fine. I mean, if you want, if you're up to the point where you obviously, ah you know, obviously had the delivery issue. um I mean, you know, you can, you can explain how it happened that, that part of the progression, because that leads into the, everything that you go.

00:10:49.10
Jacob
Yep.

00:10:53.47
Mike
Mm.

00:10:54.79
Bill
And if you want to wrap up with, or not wrap up, but mean, if you'll lead it, that's fine. Because I mean, there's,

00:10:57.98
Mike
All right.

00:10:58.30
Jacob
Okay.

00:10:58.30
Mike
So basically you're drinking all the time, right? We know that.

00:11:02.49
Jacob
At this point, yep.

00:11:02.62
Mike
And yeah, right.

00:11:02.97
Bill
yeah

00:11:03.57
Jacob
Yep. Yep.

00:11:03.90
Mike
Yeah. You know, it's not that you want it. It's that you need it. We we know that. And um right.

00:11:09.02
Jacob
yep

00:11:09.90
Mike
So how's, ah you know, how do you, how do you find out your your filters are getting clogged up?

00:11:14.87
Jacob
Exactly.

00:11:14.99
Bill
Right.

00:11:15.43
Jacob
Okay. So yeah, we we all know how it happened. ah For the most part, we know how it happens. And and so it was it was starting to get where I was starting to not feel the greatest.

00:11:20.09
Mike
Right.

00:11:26.10
Jacob
Like I would i'd be up in the night and I didn't know... i didn't didn't it was related to my liver. I didn't know that it was related to, I kind of thought I was invincible.

00:11:32.50
Mike
right

00:11:35.02
Jacob
I didn't, I didn't really, you know, I didn't really think about, I never really even worried about liver disease or any of that stuff.

00:11:35.96
Bill
yeah

00:11:41.14
Mike
right

00:11:41.46
Jacob
You know, i I'd hear people say like, well, my liver hates me for this, but I just, I, I kind of, when I would read articles about how bought alcohol, I usually tried to find the ones that say, you know, a little alcohol is good for your heart and all this stuff.

00:11:53.78
Mike
he

00:11:54.71
Jacob
Oh, I like that article. That sounds pretty good.

00:11:56.63
Mike
see

00:11:56.67
Jacob
you did you yes Did you read that article? You know, I kind of skip over the other ones. And ah so like i so I remained kind of – Naive to it and and that was dangerous because I didn't realize what I was doing to myself and all of a sudden I'm having these symptoms and Like in the night you wake up in my and and I have this my legs were just so cramped up and just like the joints and like I had to Every night I was getting up walking around trying to stretch just so I could fall back asleep and

00:12:30.46
Jacob
And it it seemed like, well, what the heck is this? You know, it doesn't seem how is that related to your liver? Well, that's I found out through my symptoms that and talking to doctors and such that that was related, that that is a symptom of of liver. And and that was like the first thing, you know, and that I started noticing. And then I always kind of had a beer belly and gut. And, and so that, um, so it was kind of, I didn't really recognize the fact that I was starting to get ascites buildup, you know, towards the end there.

00:13:03.51
Jacob
And, uh, and I wasn't feeling the greatest and I was, I was calling a sick, um, or I would have to go home and I don't, I'm not one to be, you know, i'm if I'm going to miss work, I got to be really sick or, you know, um, it's not normal for me.

00:13:15.81
Bill
Right.

00:13:17.82
Jacob
So something's not right here. And, And, but again, I'm not, I'm just kind of thinking it's something else, you know, I don't know what, I don't know what's going on.

00:13:26.27
Mike
Of course. Right. It can't be the booze.

00:13:28.50
Jacob
No, I don't want to, and you know, and I can't, could imagine having to stop it, even though I know, like, I've got a major, I've got a problem here. Like, I know I have a problem, but I'm afraid to tell anyone.

00:13:39.28
Jacob
And, and so I, I went to work the one, the or actually was the night before and

00:13:39.92
Mike
Right.

00:13:50.33
Jacob
one of the kids one of my kids you know playfully you know pokes fun at my stomach, you know kind of saying, like you know are you pregnant or you know you have a baby in there or something like that?

00:13:59.92
Mike
Hey, fat ass.

00:14:01.59
Jacob
ah Right, right.

00:14:01.98
Bill
Yeah. yeah

00:14:03.48
Jacob
and and And I was like, oh, yeah, I need i need to lose a few pounds. and And i I was walking in the kitchen and my wife even kind of says, well, yes, your stomach kind of looks kind of funny.

00:14:14.94
Jacob
And then I think she maybe, I was trying to like play it off, like you know quit making fun of my stomach, you know, and, and she didn't want to offend me or whatever.

00:14:21.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:24.77
Jacob
So she she just kind of didn't think much of it at the time and didn't want to make me feel bad. And so, but the next day, man, my stomach's just, it's hard and it's really like, you know, feel like, it feels like you're just bloated, like really bad and, and something's not right.

00:14:44.38
Jacob
So I'm at work and I work with my dad and I, I asked him to step in my step in the office and I said, I got to talk to you a second. I'm like, I'm just not feeling right.

00:14:56.54
Jacob
Something's not right with my stomach like like just, you know, and then he's like, you need to get to the hospital like this isn't right.

00:15:02.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:15:03.90
Jacob
He didn't know what it was either, but he's like, something's not right. And you need to get to you should get this checked out like today, like call and get an on call doctor. And I suppose, you know, um I didn't really want to do that, but I guess I guess you're right.

00:15:16.76
Bill
I don't

00:15:17.83
Jacob
You know, I probably should. So I go into the go and I get the on call doctor and remember they weighed me the first and I looked like I must have gained like 10 pounds and like last time I weighed myself like was a week ago or something. I'm like, man, how how did I gain 10 pounds in the last like how is that impossible? um and And then I get going to the see the doctor and I can just see like he starts examining me and he's like, I can see the look on his face and it's like this I still see it to this day like this look of like concern and something's not in and and and because I'm in a small community a um and I'm in a um uh I in my job a lot of people know me because I work with the community and and service industry and um and so

00:15:56.60
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:10.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:18.49
Jacob
I just, I don't, I don't know if that matters at all, but I seem like it was like that concern, like, like something like, I don't, I don't know how to get it.

00:16:24.88
Mike
Well, yeah, it's the alcoholic thinking. You know, people are going to know.

00:16:26.40
Jacob
Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:27.70
Mike
I'm going to get found out. Fuck. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:16:32.35
Jacob
100%, 100%. me, then he starts asking me about my drinking. And that's where I was like, you know i'm I'm kind of trying to downplay it a little bit. And well, yeah, I do.

00:16:43.29
Jacob
And then the next question something more about drinking. And then it's about like how like how frequently, how many. And i thought I thought, man, he's asking me a lot of questions about my drinking. Like, what is that?

00:16:53.32
Jacob
Why is he asking me so many questions about this? And, uh, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, like, I, this is, I know why he's asking me because what have I done to myself here?

00:17:03.48
Jacob
Like, this has to do with my drinking.

00:17:04.16
Bill
Right.

00:17:05.16
Jacob
Like, holy crap. Like it's gotten real all of sudden, like in, um, he says, uh,

00:17:15.03
Jacob
He says, we we need to get you to the um' urgent, and they need to get these fluids. You have fluids that are building up in your you're abdomen, and we need to get these off, like, right away.

00:17:26.14
Jacob
And, urgent care. They're like, okay, well, I'm supposed to go to

00:17:33.75
Jacob
San Antonio, like in on Sunday. i have a trip planned. It was a business trip. And so like I should have this should be all taken care of.

00:17:44.06
Jacob
You think I should be good then by by Sunday, though, right?

00:17:46.43
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:17:47.94
Jacob
He's like, no, I think you may want to you know cancel that trip. And ka because you do not want to be down in San Antonio with with this going on right now.

00:17:57.75
Mike
Right. Well, go open an airplane and change the pressure.

00:17:58.81
Jacob
And so it's just, it's just, ah <unk>y

00:18:03.21
Mike
That'll help.

00:18:04.44
Jacob
right. So that just all those things where it was like, this is, you know, not planned. And like, literally like three days before this, I was at a dinner function um for the community dinner function and and I was having dinner with everyone and and like this is what I kind of want to let people realize is that you can think like things are okay and like literally three days later my life totally changed that's how how fact how fast like liver disease and the damage you do it's a silent killer it's a silent thing that you don't really know and when they when you finally when it finally really shows itself it's almost like in many cases it's almost too late or very very close to too late

00:18:34.20
Mike
Huh?

00:18:52.06
Bill
Right.

00:18:55.48
Jacob
And so so that's when things really got real. and And they're talking about transferring to an ambulance. and And anyways, I got had to get transported to different hospitals. And just it was all there was all there was just all kinds tests. My skin is turning yellow really bad. My eyes.

00:19:17.88
Jacob
It was it was like just unbelievable to

00:19:26.30
Mike
Yeah, you drink yourself into liver failure.

00:19:28.31
Jacob
Yeah, i exactly.

00:19:28.57
Mike
i

00:19:28.63
Bill
right

00:19:30.23
Jacob
And ah in and ah just, you just didn't didn't, you didn't think it would happen to you, you know? and

00:19:37.30
Bill
well and that's a that's a quick question i had this i went through i mean everyone down here knows about don't need to go into the details but i had a medical situation back in october and you know there there were certain signs and certain things and the the final kind of moment the night before it just your your brain doesn't really at least in my circumstance i was going to ask you the same thing It's like your brain doesn't really um allow you to think about what could be happening.

00:20:01.65
Bill
So at this point, even though the doctor's looking at you, you're distended, your belly's distended, your skin's turning yellow. They're telling you all this different stuff. You're still thinking you can go to fucking San Antonio on Sunday.

00:20:13.25
Bill
And, you know, I mean, forgive me for saying it that way, but I mean, it's just the way our minds are.

00:20:16.31
Jacob
Oh yeah, exactly.

00:20:17.88
Bill
is just like, this can't be happening to me. I don't i don't recall how old you are. If you want to share that at the time that it happened, that's that's your choice. You know, but I'm more at the age where what happened to me could could easily happen to folks our age.

00:20:28.40
Bill
You know, but still, these things don't seem real. and I think that's part of the problem. And I tried to make a point of it when I told my story. It's just that if you if you even have an inkling, then, you know, yes, get it checked out, because literally this you're in a situation within three days and you turn from a life to, you know, life and death situation.

00:20:45.15
Bill
Right.

00:20:46.58
Jacob
100%. Yeah, I was 38 years old.

00:20:49.25
Bill
OK.

00:20:49.50
Jacob
And, and i thought, you know, that I wasn't feeling the greatest, but I didn't have any idea what was about to what to about to happen. And so it's, it's, it's kind of, you just don't think that it can't happen to you, you know, like, it's, you know, because it's because that what you'll hear is people say, well, I've, people have drank till they're, you know, they drank every day, and they,

00:21:07.06
Bill
Right.

00:21:17.05
Jacob
like a till they're in their 80s or whatever and they're fine you know so yeah some people maybe have for whatever reason I don't know the exact maybe it's something with how they something with with them that it doesn't affect them the same way or there's certain factors involved but

00:21:21.53
Mike
Sure.

00:21:37.59
Jacob
um I don't know why, but I can just tell you that what they're finding, what it seems to be happening is more and more this is this is becoming, um um i guess maybe too because I am more aware of it and and I have a lot of people reach out to me about it.

00:21:58.22
Jacob
I'm finding it to be, you know, so many people are struggling with it. This is ah this a very, very, um this is a topic a lot of people are searching for answers.

00:22:08.36
Jacob
They're searching for, um they're searching for something because they're dealing with it or they have a loved one that is dealing with it. And, and it, it it and it came out in that when I talked to these ones, it's like, it just kind of came out and, you know all a sudden I'm in the going in yeah ER and it's like life threatening.

00:22:17.60
Bill
Right. Right.

00:22:28.07
Jacob
And, and sadly i've you know, and,

00:22:35.59
Jacob
there's a number of people don't make it, you know, and it's, it's, it's, it's it's like the first few times when I was talking with ones and, maybe i was talking to their brother or, or, uh, their, uh, significant other and, and, um, or hearing from a friend and, and they, they don't make it.

00:22:57.59
Jacob
And it's like first few times, man, that was like a, gut punch of like I'm so emotional about it because I thought man I that was that could have been me like and and so that's that's really what motivates me to want to share this story only is it's because I want to share it so that people are don't get in that situation because it can happen to anyone And a lot of times the reason this happens to people is because they are a afraid of what other people are going to think or they're going to judge them or they don't know if they can quit.

00:23:07.31
Bill
Right.

00:23:32.99
Mike
Right.

00:23:35.78
Jacob
And

00:23:36.18
Mike
Well, yeah, we're I mean, okay, so were we're alcoholics. We're very good at denying reality.

00:23:42.33
Jacob
yes, that's true.

00:23:42.79
Mike
It's kind of the big it's a big part of our problem. you know Yes, we we don't want to look at what's actually happening to our lives, you know whether it's physical or or mental or spiritual or any of it.

00:23:45.69
Jacob
Right, right.

00:23:54.47
Mike
you know We deny it. That's not, it can't be the drinking. it's It's certainly not me. It's not anything I'm doing. um So, right.

00:24:03.16
Jacob
Yeah.

00:24:03.61
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:24:04.34
Mike
So, okay, go ahead.

00:24:04.60
Jacob
and i'd tell And on top of that, on top of that, too, you know, it's the it's it's that, you know, if people know about this, what are they going to think about me? You know, are you know, if if if because I'm talking about like if you're not if it's not a known like that, you're really struggling, like a lot of people, ah the people that are hiding it, I think it is is what what tends to happen to.

00:24:13.25
Mike
Right.

00:24:21.62
Mike
o

00:24:24.09
Mike
Right.

00:24:26.10
Jacob
So and

00:24:26.90
Mike
Well, and again, that's, you know, in our minds, we think we're hiding it. You know, most of the time people have a clue of what's going on. We're not that damn good.

00:24:35.03
Bill
hey

00:24:35.72
Mike
Right.

00:24:36.15
Bill
hey

00:24:36.29
Jacob
youch that's That's true. i can't argue with on that that, Mike. That's true.

00:24:40.92
Bill
Well, and that and that's the other thing too. Yeah. Like, cause you had mentioned to begin with, you know, the, the stigma and that sort of thing. And um I mean, both, both Mike and I, we're coming up on 16 years sober next month.

00:24:51.77
Jacob
Oh, wow.

00:24:52.52
Bill
um And, you know, it's, it's a, it's a long amount of time, but we know people that have been, you know, obviously it it is, but it did what it is what it is type of thing.

00:24:52.95
Jacob
Nice. Great job.

00:25:01.30
Bill
You know, um we're respectful and obviously grateful for the time, but there, there's been a lot of things that have changed in in a very positive way in that timeframe. And even in the last, you know, five years or 10 years, certainly since we got sober, you know, the awareness, the openness, the stigma, if you want to call it that, it's not as big of a deal to come out, I guess, if you want to put it that way, you know, and ask for help and say you're struggling, you know, alcohol, drug abuse, whatever the case may be, is it was, you know, 30 years 40 years ago, God, 80 years ago, know.

00:25:33.11
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:25:35.40
Bill
And, you know, people got thrown in jail. It was always the, you know, Mayberry, Andy Griffith, Otis, the town drunk, you know. They'd just throw him in a fucking cell and let him sober up and let him go out his way the next day.

00:25:48.15
Bill
But, I mean, everyone knew him. He was a disgrace, you know.

00:25:51.54
Jacob
Okay.

00:25:52.09
Bill
But that's the thing, you know. And if worst case scenario, if having, to your point, Jacob, if having a conversation – And talking a little bit more in the one, like I said, the main reason of the main biggest thing, you know, your story, honestly, I don't mean this any way, shape or form, is no different than mine or Mike's or anyone else.

00:26:10.92
Bill
You just ended up in liver failure, you know, and then, you know, the guy down the street or the woman down the street ended up in the same place.

00:26:11.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:17.62
Bill
But your story is different because you lived in that individual, to your point, you know, did not. But the key there is that, you know, you're this next step in here is when you kind of, I guess, correct me if I'm wrong, you took this leap based on something that somebody told you and went down a different avenue because the basically what they were telling you was that you were you were at the end of your road, if I'm not mistaken. Correct.

00:26:39.03
Jacob
I was, yeah. it it It had gotten to the point of after a lot of testing and all the a lot of details in between here, but it got to the point where i was at you know, um ah the liver transplant wasn't an option. And so we looked at, we were talking to ah doctor and this lady this this lady doctor um was a different one than i we had seen in the whole the whole time I was there. That's the first day I saw her. was my day I was going to be leaving the hospital. And i had met with palliative care, which they were making sure they wanted me to be pain-free for my...

00:27:21.24
Jacob
last days you know and make sure that i was comfortable and i wasn't in a a tremendous amount of pain at this point i just was very weak and and i i mean i i looked like like walking death probably to you know if you look at the pictures and a lot of people who saw me they they said they told me now that i so i'm doing so well that when they saw me at that time you know that they thought i was

00:27:22.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:43.48
Jacob
You know, on my way out, or like I look like somebody they like their dad when he was about to die. And so so but I was this was the last day I was about to get discharged.

00:27:49.14
Mike
here

00:27:49.26
Bill
Right.

00:27:54.36
Jacob
And this lady was there. And, you know, this is most of the doctors there are really focused on.

00:28:04.12
Jacob
You know, can I give you that like a steroid? Would that work or would that help you? Or could we know that we tried that? It's not going to help. And there's just different things they would try. Liver transplant, you got to have this liver that you'd have to have a liver transplant. That's really your only hope. Your liver is just too damaged. It won't won't repair. And and so that we're on the on our way out. And this this doctor is wonderful doctor.

00:28:26.71
Jacob
um She says, have you ever have you guys what's what's next for you guys?

00:28:33.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:33.75
Jacob
My wife and I looked at each other. Well, we're really not sure. We're not sure. You know, we kind of have to, we'll have to figure this out. You know, we didn't have an idea. didn't have a clue what we're going to do.

00:28:44.96
Bill
Right.

00:28:46.06
Jacob
And she says, well, have you ever thought about functional medicine? Have you ever heard of it? Well, you know, I hadn't. My wife goes, well, yeah, you know, I i have actually. i've I've been kind of doing a little bit of checking into it. And um and and and so she had an interest about it. And so this doctor went on to, you know, offer some different things with what it was and how it worked. And um and I'm so glad that she spoke up because...

00:29:16.31
Jacob
Unfortunately, there's not and I'm not trying to be knock any of the doctors that in Western medicine and that there's a lot of they're all every doctor that a nurse that that dealt with me during my time.

00:29:28.15
Jacob
they They were fantastic. They did the best they could with what the tools that they had and they were they were kind and they and I'm not at all just trying to disrespect them at all.

00:29:33.16
Bill
Right?

00:29:38.39
Jacob
But they typically don't. Functional medicine and Western medicine, they're kind of like button heads. that That's kind of like a something that really they don't really agree with each other on.

00:29:52.32
Jacob
they you know they're kind of they're They're friendly to each other, but I don't think that they they both think that theirs is better. you know and And so for her to speak up and was was very...

00:30:00.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:30:07.22
Jacob
Because if she wouldn't have been there that day, i don't think you know I don't think anybody would have brought that up. And so she she spoke about it, and she spoke about these ALA infusions. And she says, she says i've I read this book, and they did these ALA infusions, and they saw a lot of success with...

00:30:25.49
Jacob
Dr. David Pérez, M.D.: liver liver healing with these ALA infusions, which ALA stands for alpha liploic acid. Dr. David Pérez, M.D.:

00:30:36.07
Jacob
And and so it's like a super antioxidant ALA is it's a super antioxidant and it's known to like heal.

00:30:40.28
Mike
Okay.

00:30:45.35
Jacob
It has a lot of benefits other than just liver it it um people probably take it as a supplement um a lot of people do they it's really good for neuropathy and it's used for healing like you know kidney you know helping restore different organs in your body it's it's a very good um very good um supplement and and if uh that's a good question i i i don't know exactly where it comes from um but i i

00:31:06.06
Mike
Okay. Where's it come from?

00:31:10.36
Mike
a

00:31:11.56
Bill
you

00:31:13.14
Mike
okay i mean is it like from plant or animal extract or do you know i don't have to grab all right yeah grab the google machine see

00:31:20.44
Jacob
i I don't. We'll have to grab the web if you got it up there. like um But, yeah.

00:31:27.35
Bill
Yeah. So, so real quick Jacob, before you you know go on to that part of it, just in a, um, in a basic sense, because I actually looked it up and I explained when Mike and I were first originally talking about this, I read the, you know, basically the textbook definition of what functional medicine is.

00:31:41.51
Bill
Can you just explain what it just in a general sense, when somebody says functional medicine, what is that in a general sense?

00:31:43.83
Jacob
Yes.

00:31:48.06
Jacob
Okay, yeah, so functional medicine, it restores healthy function by treating the root cause of a disease um rather than the symptoms. so to to illustrate it, one of the best illustrations I've heard, and it's not my own illustration, i I'm stealing it from somebody else, but they they they said, okay, let's say you have a headache and you go to the doctor and you say, I got this headache and it's it's really just killing me. I can't stand it. And he says, okay, here, let me give you a three ibuprofen. And you take those three ibuprofen and 20 minutes later, your headache's gone.

00:32:25.66
Jacob
Well, was it, was it, your headache caused because you were lacking ibuprofen? No, it was B. It was be It was that it it basically healed the symptom of the headache.

00:32:38.52
Jacob
But what what was really causing the headache?

00:32:38.53
Bill
Right.

00:32:40.56
Jacob
Was it that you were that your neck was out? Was it that your magnesium was low? Was it that you're dehydrated or you have a calf you've had over too much caffeine or you you know, there's what factors are causing that headache?

00:32:54.58
Jacob
And so So that's what functional medicine will do. and Instead of just giving you the ibuprofen, it's going to say, let's look at what's causing it. And they're going to ask questions like your diet or what, you know, they might they might practice some chiropractor work, you know, maybe they adjust your neck and or they find out what is causing it.

00:33:15.26
Jacob
Right. And so that the headache doesn't continue because tomorrow maybe the headache shows up again. I've been having this headache every day.

00:33:19.81
Bill
Right.

00:33:21.02
Jacob
i have to keep just taking ibuprofen in order to get rid of it. well, what what could be causing it? So that's what functional medicine really looks at and and what it's what it's what it's...

00:33:32.89
Jacob
And it takes... There's a lot there's a lot with it. It's going to look at... Like I looked up just to give a little bit more professional... This is from the Institute of Functional Medicine.

00:33:44.79
Jacob
um it but They say, by understanding a patient's genetic, environmental, and lifestyle influences, functional medicine clinicians... ah create personalized interventions that restore balance, health, and well-being.

00:33:58.71
Jacob
And so the they treat the whole person, which means their unique physical, mental, and um um emotional needs of the patient. patient So sometimes there's even some of the some of the work that I've done, what is like with like, you know, your your brain, like – neuroscience and stuff like that like like they'll they'll find out what maybe something from your past that that that you haven't healed some something that's from the past when you were a kid like i mean that's really the deep stuff i mean that's going real deep but i mean that's where maybe there's something that you haven't been let go of and that's still what is you know causing you issues today you know ah what and

00:34:29.19
Bill
Sure.

00:34:40.53
Mike
Well, yeah, right. Well, yeah. It causes you to suck down tons of booze and kill your liver.

00:34:45.86
Bill
Right.

00:34:46.15
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:46.58
Jacob
Yeah, that's it.

00:34:47.51
Bill
right

00:34:48.25
Jacob
Right.

00:34:49.91
Bill
Yeah, you know so you know, it's funny real quick with this with this whole root cause thing is that um it it reminded me of when I, um because I lived in Wisconsin for years and went out to Cleveland and got sober and ah was out there for like three and a half years and went back to Wisconsin.

00:34:50.03
Jacob
That's it.

00:35:03.69
Bill
I came back to the Madison area to begin with and was working for a company. And one of the higher ups, she used to teach this this class to management every, um well, management in the training department all that stuff.

00:35:15.81
Bill
But I was in the training department. And she would do these root cause analysis classes. Okay. And basically that whatever the situation is, whenever there's a problem, you know, she's like, okay, we're going to take a look at this and and figure out the same deal.

00:35:22.83
Jacob
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:35:30.21
Bill
You know, whereas rather than, you know, if, if a link in a chain breaks, we don't just put duct tape on the link, you know, we figure out what caused the break, you know? And like she would say that, you know, easy example is, okay, um Sally quit today, you know, and then the the question is why?

00:35:46.52
Bill
Well, she said she wasn't happy. Why? She, you know, had some sort of issue with her co-workers. Why? Co-workers were doing this. Why? Because she wasn't doing this.

00:35:56.10
Jacob
Yeah.

00:35:57.10
Bill
Why? And then every time the question was asked, you just keep asking why. And it takes you back to the point where what happened was, is that it might go all the way back to the training department, that there was a key that was missed.

00:36:08.94
Bill
And then this, this pyramid developed without a key piece. And at the end, at the end of her run, she didn't know what the fuck she was doing. And she quit because she was pissed off, you know? So, you know, you fix the piece back in the training department without blame.

00:36:18.94
Jacob
yeah

00:36:22.78
Bill
And that was her point of doing this is she's like, we're not looking to blame people. We're looking to fix the glitch, you know, kind of office space reference. But um but in in this case, with with this functional medicine, it just made me think about it.

00:36:31.10
Jacob
yeah that

00:36:35.15
Bill
I think I'm probably being far too simplistic. But um I mean, I don't know.

00:36:37.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:38.36
Jacob
no it's concept very similar concept yeah because you're you're looking at things you know um the factors of of of liver and and probably one of the reasons why maybe

00:36:39.07
Bill
Is that kind of the it is the concept correct?

00:36:54.78
Jacob
um you know what what do you The question is, what what were you drinking? okay It was like whiskeys, whiskey and stuff like that. Well, that's one of the—whiskies and bourbons are some of the worst alcohols for your liver because they're usually—

00:37:12.57
Jacob
ah think they have more of a higher ah sugar content.

00:37:15.51
Mike
Yeah, there's more crap in them.

00:37:15.95
Jacob
or

00:37:16.63
Mike
yeah yeah Yeah, exactly.

00:37:16.89
Jacob
Yeah, exactly. And so then— it

00:37:18.07
Mike
Right. You know, I mean, keeping it simple, but right, it's making you you have to filter. There's more to filter out, which puts more stress on the liver. Right.

00:37:25.85
Jacob
in ah In a nutshell, yeah.

00:37:25.83
Mike
Yeah. If you're just, yeah, right.

00:37:27.35
Jacob
Right.

00:37:27.75
Mike
You know, if you're just drinking vodka, it's just, it's alcohol and water. It's not all the the charcoal and the flavoring and the blah, blah, blah, blah. blah So, right. Yeah, exactly.

00:37:36.41
Jacob
Yeah. So so then you add, and then let's say you mix it with something with ah a Coke or something. Well, that's got the high fructose corn syrup.

00:37:41.97
Mike
Hmm.

00:37:42.90
Bill
yeah

00:37:43.86
Jacob
So you got that.

00:37:44.29
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:37:44.82
Jacob
That's cut that's that's terrible for your liver.

00:37:46.33
Mike
It's more crap to filter out.

00:37:47.45
Jacob
And then, and then you know, after you had that, then you got to have like the, the, the, a double cheeseburger or you got to have the the fries, you know, so then you got all that fat.

00:37:53.57
Bill
Hehehehe.

00:37:55.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:56.38
Jacob
So you just, it's just a combination of things. So then it's, it's, it's looking at functional medicine also sometimes is like when you ah kind of like you said, is it that simple?

00:37:58.98
Mike
Sure.

00:38:05.09
Jacob
It kind of is, it's kind of like going back to the basics of just like how we were meant, like just eat healthy and make healthy choices.

00:38:06.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:14.88
Jacob
And and that's just the really, you know, really simplifying it. But I'm, he would, he would ask me questions like, You know, like first off, you know, I eliminated the now that I cause i went at that point was forced to go sober or or die.

00:38:29.24
Jacob
So I'm I'm not drinking anymore. So and I've cut out the whiskey. I've cut out the the high fructose corn syrup. He wants me to you know, cut out the sugar. No, no more sugar. You need to give your liver a break.

00:38:39.85
Jacob
You got to you got to try to have as little as sugar as possible. And

00:38:45.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:47.10
Jacob
And even even fruit, you know, initially was, what has some has sugar in it and, and

00:38:50.80
Mike
Right.

00:38:55.16
Jacob
of all the of all the things, you know, fruits, probably the healthiest sugar you have. But but when you have liver disease, that's a time where maybe you need to take a break on all that right now, you know, and so let your liver have a break and heal.

00:38:59.88
Mike
Right.

00:39:06.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:06.77
Bill
Right.

00:39:09.96
Jacob
And like as best, you know, this is giving it the best chance. So this is what we got to do. And and that was kind of his approach. It was like, you know, I can't promise anything, but we're going give it our best shot.

00:39:21.17
Jacob
Like he he's like, I'm come he's coming with like ideas and solutions and things that we're going to try this in and and it might sound like well that's just this that seems too simple like there's got to be just a yeah isn't there a pill you can give me or something there or do I really have to not eat like sugar you know and let me tell you it's you guys and probably know well uh those sugar cravings after when you go sober are really intense and then no sugar that was that was terrible oh my gosh I was sneaking I was sneaking a little bit of candy

00:39:32.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:44.79
Bill
oh yeah.

00:39:47.61
Mike
Right. Well, yeah, I can't imagine. Right. Because, I mean, right. I mean, the alcohol turns to, yeah, the alcohol turns to sugar. So, I mean, your system, you're you're running on sugar.

00:39:58.43
Mike
And, yeah, so when you get sober, yeah, I know I was, you know, I put on way too much weight because I was eating tons of sugar after I got sober.

00:39:58.97
Jacob
Yes.

00:40:06.62
Jacob
Yeah.

00:40:06.62
Bill
Yeah.

00:40:07.58
Mike
Right. You know, I mean, I've cut it way, way back. I still have a little bit every night, but not not like I was.

00:40:12.38
Jacob
Oh, yeah.

00:40:13.49
Mike
Right. You know, yeah, absolutely.

00:40:14.17
Bill
Right.

00:40:15.78
Mike
That's that's what we do.

00:40:16.51
Jacob
it it's what we do and then and and ah you know i hate to admit it but i was i was sneaking a little sugar you know and if i could and it was like because it is it was so intense like it was almost worse than the worst worse than the alcohol cravings by that point you know it was pretty intense but um it it just yeah it's really a lot of that is this the simplicity of

00:40:31.37
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:40.66
Jacob
um Just getting back to the basics and you know so supplements that I'm taking, you know there a lot of the vitamins, things like glutathione are really great for detoxing for your liver.

00:40:53.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:53.88
Jacob
And so you know things like that. um I also was... um There was this that one supplement. And i I want to maybe just state here because I'm saying a few details here.

00:41:05.25
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:05.58
Jacob
I am not a doctor, all right?

00:41:07.00
Mike
Right.

00:41:07.99
Jacob
who class This is like the disclaimer. I am not a doctor, but I...

00:41:10.84
Mike
Right. You don't even play one on TV.

00:41:11.35
Jacob
ah No, but i am I am living proof that this worked.

00:41:13.78
Bill
hey

00:41:16.66
Jacob
And so I offer this as this information free in hopes that it may help someone else.

00:41:16.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:21.70
Jacob
be I'm not trying to promote any of these products or treatments.

00:41:25.87
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:41:27.03
Jacob
I just honestly, this is what I've been doing. And so it's working.

00:41:29.56
Mike
Right.

00:41:30.07
Jacob
and it's working So that's I'm just sharing it. I'm not I'm sharing it free just like, you know, if you want if because I know how it feels to be at a hospital ready to be discharged, not knowing where you're going to turn and not many doctors are going to speak up and tell you about functional medicine.

00:41:35.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:44.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:48.58
Jacob
um You have to you have to have somebody else say and then then it's hard because everyone has opinions on it on different.

00:41:49.21
Mike
Absolutely.

00:41:56.06
Jacob
Everyone's got this opinion or that opinion. And I can just tell you, I'm living proof that I my eyes were open and I'm so grateful that I got it. I got that chance because when I was going to see the doctor, this functional medicine doctor the first time, my wife had been trying to get me into him and he was hard to get into.

00:42:18.62
Jacob
And at this point I had gone home and I've seen i've at this point, I've seen many, many doctors like You name it. I saw every doctor and every every single one of them is asking me my drinking and all this stuff. and like it's not they're all kind of giving me.

00:42:34.17
Jacob
You know, i'm I'm asking questions like, well, could my liver heal it's itself? and And they're giving me answers like silence and just a rub on the shoulder and like probably not, you know, like don't know how to tell me that I'm that's probably not going heal.

00:42:44.09
Mike
right

00:42:50.34
Jacob
So I don't really want to see any more doctors because i'm kind of like like I don't think there's any chance anymore, you know.

00:42:50.52
Mike
yeah

00:42:55.90
Mike
h

00:42:56.02
Jacob
And so I remember i was downstairs sitting sitting downstairs feeling feeling pretty down about myself, you know, I'm depressed. And she comes downstairs, she says, Dr. Ron, and i we'll see you.

00:43:11.09
Jacob
and

00:43:11.38
Mike
Right.

00:43:12.15
Jacob
And I said, i don't want to see any more doctors. And, you know, I've seen so many. And she's like, well, you're going. And I'm so glad she did that because I was not i didn't i want I probably wouldn't have, and I want to – I think that's important to share because i've I know that sometimes when people have – when I've been dealing with this, because I have had ah a lot of people reach out to me, and I'm happy to try to offer information for them and stuff.

00:43:47.38
Jacob
And and sometimes it's like ah a spouse or a loved one, and and and maybe maybe that person isn't getting –

00:43:51.67
Mike
who

00:43:55.67
Jacob
Maybe, they're you know, you give them all the information, but they're not really like doing too much with it, you know, they're not trying it.

00:44:00.60
Mike
Right.

00:44:00.63
Bill
right

00:44:01.69
Jacob
And I i can kind of relate because I felt that way. But fortunately, had a wife that, you know, was was was looking out for me and it was kind of like, you know,

00:44:16.32
Jacob
pushing me like you're going to go anyway.

00:44:17.19
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:18.18
Jacob
So I'm driving or I'm driving you.

00:44:18.71
Mike
Right.

00:44:19.68
Jacob
I'm locking the car and we're going, you know, you're going to see this guy.

00:44:20.22
Bill
okay

00:44:21.02
Mike
Right.

00:44:22.88
Jacob
And from the day one, the first day I saw him, I saw why like he gave me hope. And he's like, he starts looking at my numbers. He starts asking me these questions.

00:44:34.22
Jacob
and And I felt instantly like he was there to like solve this thing. Like he he just, there was just a different, it was just a different feeling. And it was like, it was a feeling of there.

00:44:43.86
Mike
right

00:44:48.54
Jacob
He says, I don't, I can't promise anything, but I think there's some things we can do. And I think it could help. And i think they i think we I think we got a chance. And I was like, to hear that,

00:45:00.31
Jacob
was like, wow, like I would have left that appointment and I just was, I i finally like i finally had my hope back. and And that just totally changed my whole perspective.

00:45:12.08
Jacob
And it was just this day one, it was a start. I didn't even know if it would work, but he like made me feel like there was a chance and you need to have some hope.

00:45:19.64
Mike
Right.

00:45:19.98
Bill
Yeah.

00:45:21.83
Jacob
And that's what I want to share.

00:45:22.70
Mike
Hmm.

00:45:23.39
Jacob
Like just some hope that there's a chance, that there's something out there. you got to take the action. You got to take the action, but you, it could, it could work. It could, you know, what's the, what's the ah what the other option?

00:45:35.77
Jacob
You can, you can, you could just sit here and like, just decide you're going in the towel or you're going to fight, fight and you're going to try and you're going to, you're going to use all means.

00:45:35.99
Mike
Right.

00:45:36.89
Bill
yeah

00:45:44.93
Jacob
And, and, you know, and, and so I, I just really strongly encourage anyone to, you know, if that's, if you're at that point, you know, where they're not getting any hope, then what what's what do you got to lose?

00:45:56.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:00.54
Mike
Absolutely.

00:46:00.59
Bill
Right.

00:46:00.70
Jacob
Why not?

00:46:01.06
Mike
Well, you know what?

00:46:01.66
Bill
So what do you, what do you think? why you You're on the same page.

00:46:02.87
Mike
yeah Yeah, I am. Looking at the clock on the wall. We're going to take a quick break. So we we're in a state of hopelessness and ah we suddenly see a little ray of light. We're going to come back and find out what happened then right after these words from our sponsors.

00:46:30.20
Bill
all right everyone welcome back and yes that's kind of funny yeah that definitely doesn't happen with mike and i we we're kind of on the same page with the timing wise but uh yeah both of us like hey one second here but what a what a perfect thing yeah you get to the point of saying hope i just have one thing that i want to that i want to kind of uh i don't know reiterate not even reiterate just kind of put a shine a little bit of a light on also not just everything that you talked about but So the fact that you had um just some individual, now this was that that female doctor was an employee of the hospital, correct? The one that brought this up to you?

00:47:04.57
Jacob
Yeah, she had she was, yep.

00:47:06.10
Bill
Okay. So, um, first of all, I mean, amazing. And you know how random and like you said, if she would have been there that day and blah, blah, blah. And I mean, I, I was teased Mike that he knows a lot of the things are very disgusting and inappropriate, but in a fun way, he knows a lot of things.

00:47:21.60
Jacob
Yeah.

00:47:22.70
Bill
And I would have thought that anyone on the planet that I knew would have heard of functional medicine, but he's like, no, I never heard of that. And I'm like really? So I'm like, then we definitely want to get on, you know, get this individual on and and talk to him because if not that we, not that we know everything or Mike knows ever anything like that, but you hear things over the years, you know, um, but all with all the people that we've known, all the stories that we've heard, all the leads that we've listened to all the drunk alongs that we've listened to.

00:47:30.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:47:40.18
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

00:47:50.29
Bill
Nobody's ever brought this up before, which is kind of amazing, You know, so what an opportunity there. But on top of that, too, I can only imagine. I mean, if you're if you're getting yourself kind of run through the gauntlet of this of this medical shit, and that's really what it is.

00:48:05.51
Bill
And back to your point, Jacob, you know, modern medicine, Western medicine, whatever you want to go, whatever you want to say, you know, all these individuals are employed by these hospitals that are run by the the hospital, the insurance companies.

00:48:12.87
Mike
Hmm.

00:48:16.04
Bill
This is what they do and this is what they can what they're able to do. So I get that part of it.

00:48:21.43
Jacob
Yeah.

00:48:21.59
Bill
ah But what ah what a refreshing thing to hear that somebody was saying, hey, by the way, take a little peek over here. And then on top of this, where this doctor that you're, which you're getting into with this hope part of it says, I mean, just right right off the bat, how many doctors say that? You know, they you know they're like...

00:48:38.37
Bill
I have nothing to promise you. You know, I could see some things that could work, but I'd make no promises. But if you're willing to, you know, put a little faith in this whole thing, that we might be able to do something here, which that goes back to what, Mike?

00:48:51.09
Bill
That sounds like what?

00:48:51.77
Mike
It sounds like the cult, man.

00:48:54.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:54.78
Bill
Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, we we talk about a as a cult every once in a while. We're part of, you know, I mean, we we say a joking way, but, you know, Alcoholics Anonymous, the recovery community, everything like that, that's all that anyone ever asks of us, us people when we walk into the rooms or walk into a a meeting or or ask for help is just say, all you need is that little glimmer of hope or faith or whatever it is.

00:49:16.77
Bill
we'll We'll show you the rest.

00:49:16.82
Jacob
Yeah.

00:49:17.77
Bill
And so what what a great opportunity to kind of tie these things together. But maybe that was the other thing in the back of my mind, why it interests me. But so go on, Jacob. Now you've got your you' got your glimmer of hope.

00:49:28.55
Bill
You've got your doctor in place. So where does it go? Where does it go from here? And this has been just to re recap, what, three years ago almost?

00:49:35.64
Jacob
Yeah, this was three years ago. And this wasn't the doctor that did the ALA infusions. I was actually as another doctor. He was a awesome doctor as well.

00:49:44.34
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:49:44.79
Jacob
and And and he was one that we specifically looked up for the ALA infusions. But there there was two doctors that my wife wanted me to see.

00:49:49.96
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:49:52.27
Jacob
One was one.

00:49:52.57
Bill
Right.

00:49:53.15
Jacob
She wanted the ALA infusions, which we found a place in Wisconsin that that that that did those. Because we thought we were going have to travel to like New Mexico or or somewhere like that to do this because that's what the doctor had mentioned um at the hospital that that the doctors she knew that performed these was in that area.

00:50:14.58
Jacob
So we thought about even, you know, we're going to be going down there for a while or something, but she she was able to find one here locally. so That doctor that doctor was awesome as well.

00:50:21.27
Bill
crazy

00:50:23.30
Jacob
But this this this was the kind of the start of it. And he you know, they kind of work together, those two doctors, because they both had this they both had the same like methods, you know, but they just he didn't he didn't perform infusions at his at his practice.

00:50:33.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:38.71
Jacob
But when I went to him, like, I think that the it's helpful to maybe hear a little bit of, like, labs, I guess. Maybe, you know, i was trying to like, to see, like, how bad it was.

00:50:49.85
Jacob
Because when I – at this point, it was probably around April that I – when I went in because I went into the yeah ER in, like, March. So my numbers were probably even worse back then. But I started kind of tracking them because they they were always – like in april i started like like tracking to see my progress and see if i was getting better and and this was just something i put together myself and so at that point like in april of 2023 you know i'll just a key couple keynotes like my um alt and ast my alt was 271 my ast was 194.

00:51:09.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:24.74
Jacob
those are your liver enzymes and stuff so very elevated they should normally be like Your ALT should be at like 5 to 34, so I'm at 271. You know, my AST should be at 0 to 55, and it's at 194.

00:51:34.33
Bill
oh

00:51:34.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:36.16
Jacob
My belly rubin should be at –

00:51:41.85
Jacob
my my belly v billy ruben was should be at you know, less than one if possible, or, you know, maybe, you know, should be quite low. It's at 26.2 at that point.

00:51:58.30
Jacob
My MELD score was 31, which was why there was, you know, all these factors were playing into why I, my ferritin was, six my ferritin level was 683. It's crazy. And so these were all things that were playing into why I was so sick and why it didn't look, it it looked pretty doom and gloom.

00:52:22.81
Jacob
Like, you know, they basically were like, you know, the, in the hospitals, they were saying three to six months, you know, and if you do live, you know, the thing is you're, you're gonna, if you do live lot, you might start to get confused.

00:52:28.06
Mike
Right.

00:52:34.56
Jacob
you And so then you're not gonna, then it it's like, it was, it, it's gonna get worse. Basically. You're not gonna get, you're not getting better. You're probably gonna progressively get worse without, you know, without that transplant.

00:52:44.69
Mike
Right.

00:52:44.85
Bill
Right.

00:52:46.50
Jacob
So, um, now

00:52:48.15
Bill
So with the, and real quick, I'm sorry to interrupt again, but so with the transplant, was it, was it just based on um nothing available or the fact of how, how and why you needed a liver that you were not eligible?

00:53:00.06
Jacob
Well, there's ah there's there's a lot of factors that can why people can't get liver transplant.

00:53:04.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:05.42
Jacob
Sometimes it's because it's for their drinking and stuff like that. in In my case, you know, if I would have been six months, um if I would have refrained from mal alcohol for six months, I could have ah potentially had one.

00:53:11.01
Bill
Right.

00:53:21.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:22.52
Jacob
my My situation is was for religious reasons. I don't take blood transfusions. And so because of that, then um the liver transplant is a very um ah bloody surgery.

00:53:29.37
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:53:29.40
Mike
Ah.

00:53:37.86
Jacob
And so it would require a lot of blood.

00:53:38.52
Bill
Sure.

00:53:38.53
Mike
Okay.

00:53:40.74
Jacob
and And at this point where I'm kind of like I had obviously I wasn't. you know, I'm not, uh, I'm a Jehovah's witness.

00:53:52.09
Jacob
I wasn't a, I wasn't a perfect, uh, obviously I was not a perfect Christian and not a, a good example at that point of, ah of what I was doing or whatever.

00:53:56.21
Mike
Right.

00:54:01.59
Mike
Right.

00:54:03.27
Jacob
Um, but, but it, but it I had done in my studies, I felt a strong conviction that I didn't want to take blood. So, um, and so because of that, then, uh,

00:54:10.85
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:11.06
Bill
Right. Okay. Sure.

00:54:15.13
Jacob
i ah

00:54:18.97
Jacob
I re I chose to not I wouldn't I could make potentially had the surgery, a liver transplant, but they refused to do it without blood. And I was I was ready to sign a paper that said, you know, I'm willing to risk it, you know, like if you guys do just try do the best you can, you know, um and they they they just they wouldn't they so they want hospitals won't sign off on that.

00:54:27.82
Bill
Right.

00:54:42.12
Jacob
So so that that's that's where that's why i wasn't able to get one.

00:54:42.46
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:54:42.91
Bill
Right.

00:54:47.22
Jacob
So

00:54:47.66
Mike
Gotcha.

00:54:47.83
Bill
Okay. Gotcha.

00:54:49.97
Jacob
Yeah,

00:54:50.62
Mike
Right. Yeah. So we were talking the functional medicine and getting back to it.

00:54:54.65
Jacob
yeah yeah. Okay.

00:54:55.25
Mike
um Right. So, so um right.

00:54:57.98
Jacob
the The labs I think we were talking about.

00:54:58.63
Mike
I've never heard the term before, but I'm kind of familiar with the concept of it. um My, my ex-wife was a fashion model and she, I, to this day, because of it, we haven't been together in 30 years, but um I take supplements because of the knowledge that she gave me.

00:55:15.52
Mike
So yeah, I, I'm, I'm aware of, of, you know, uh, some of the Eastern stuff and, and what supplements do and how they can, and, you know, the body's a pretty amazing thing.

00:55:26.42
Mike
I mean, and especially with the right fuel, it can, it can heal itself. It can, I totally believe in that. um

00:55:33.27
Jacob
Yeah.

00:55:34.01
Mike
You know, it and so you're clearly an example of that.

00:55:37.59
Jacob
Right.

00:55:37.61
Mike
So, um okay. So, um and I did look up the, ah the AL, whatever the hell it is.

00:55:40.16
Jacob
That's the.

00:55:43.51
Jacob
Oh, yeah.

00:55:43.50
Mike
And yeah, it does.

00:55:43.99
Bill
hey

00:55:46.94
Jacob
Yeah.

00:55:47.11
Mike
It's it does come from plants and animals. um Mostly one of the best sources is actually organ meats and beets and tomatoes.

00:55:57.27
Mike
It's in there, too. and And we have a little naturally in ourselves, just, you know, as as human beings, we have some in us. um So clearly. Yeah. And and again, it's, um you know, no knocks against Western medicine.

00:56:12.04
Mike
I'm not the hugest fan of it.

00:56:12.70
Jacob
No.

00:56:13.92
Mike
And um I understand that, yes, you know, so we've got this this thing in us. And if we take more of it from it, it helps us heal.

00:56:24.70
Mike
And yeah, it makes total sense.

00:56:25.40
Jacob
Yeah.

00:56:29.42
Jacob
Yep, absolutely. It, uh, um, Yeah, so thanks for looking that stuff up, Mike.

00:56:34.64
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:35.35
Jacob
it's ah it it it and it has It has so many different benefits. and I so i kind of get i think we were talking a little bit about labs.

00:56:47.47
Jacob
I was just going maybe kind of give give you follow-up.

00:56:48.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:49.14
Bill
ah Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:51.35
Jacob
So so as i was as I was going through labs and stuff, it it was um

00:57:02.14
Jacob
you know, it's pretty remarkable. my most recent labs, I guess, I don't, i think I probably just to save time, I'll just go to my most recent ones.

00:57:08.53
Mike
Right.

00:57:09.22
Jacob
This was, this was, uh, um December 8th of 2025 Which was just the most recent ones and Yeah, now my alt is at 73 so it's still a little elevated but I mean we're close to that 55 in a normal ideal range, you know AST is actually 56.

00:57:17.10
Mike
Yeah, a few months ago, right? Hmm.

00:57:27.70
Mike
Right.

00:57:27.78
Bill
Right.

00:57:30.79
Jacob
So it's actually in the ideal range. So it's Between 14 so you you've got a ah drop from 271 down to 73 and then you've got ast going from 194 to 56 and um the uh uh bilirubin is at 1.6 now and you know meld score of 10 which would wouldn't even be considered for a you know really be looking at a transplant at this point so so i just just just to give you some numbers uh the

00:58:01.78
Mike
it

00:58:02.54
Bill
Right.

00:58:08.62
Jacob
That there was some proof of how did help, guess.

00:58:12.70
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

00:58:13.47
Bill
Right.

00:58:14.10
Mike
So you're you're saying that you were getting infusions of this stuff. um I mean, so they were like giving you, i'm i'm assuming intravenously and, and, and, you know, like super charging, not taking a couple of ah capsules from the drugstore.

00:58:17.98
Jacob
yeah

00:58:31.03
Jacob
Correct. Yeah. it' so it's it's It's like a yeah you get an infusion right into your veins.

00:58:31.80
Mike
Yes.

00:58:36.59
Jacob
And and it's it's just more potent that way.

00:58:36.56
Mike
isn' it

00:58:39.23
Jacob
And and and so um you right now, i don't i don't still get the infusions, but I i do take the tablets now.

00:58:39.22
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:58:44.73
Mike
it is Sure, Sure.

00:58:46.84
Jacob
and And so I take those every day along with ah a host of other supplements.

00:58:47.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:52.18
Mike
sure

00:58:52.29
Jacob
you know And it's it's kind of like you kind of mentioned it and when you were talking about the supplements.

00:58:57.21
Mike
is it

00:58:57.53
Jacob
you know It's just if we give the body what it needs –

00:58:59.93
Mike
yeah

00:59:00.66
Jacob
it um it's a remarkably made thing. you know god created God created us to be to be able to...

00:59:04.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:07.37
Jacob
like um like heal that ourselves it's it's an amazing thing so it's just it's it's a you know i i give uh you know credit to that to him and as a creator but um but if we give it the right things and and so much of so much today we kind of maybe uh you know with the the food and and and things that we put into our body you know all the

00:59:11.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:29.95
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:32.50
Jacob
the the high frucose corn syrups and the, um yeah, you you know, all the preservatives and all that stuff.

00:59:34.71
Mike
yeah

00:59:38.07
Mike
Yeah, the garbage. Yeah, yeah that would put it ourselves right every day. Exactly.

00:59:42.17
Jacob
But so if we just make healthier choices and and in ah in an in addition to, you know, i started with exercising and stuff that also helped, weight training and stuff like that.

00:59:42.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:52.62
Jacob
So there's a lot of factors and you have to you have to commit to it. Like you have to put in, the you know, you have to,

01:00:01.98
Jacob
And I think once you start seeing results and you start seeing that you're improving, that it kind of gives you that nudge of motivation. Like, man, could I beat could i actually beat this thing?

01:00:08.76
Mike
Sure.

01:00:11.45
Jacob
like and and And it's good to kind of remember how bad it was so that you stay motivated.

01:00:16.15
Mike
me

01:00:17.66
Jacob
Yeah.

01:00:18.07
Mike
Absolutely.

01:00:19.64
Bill
Well, and the one thing too, Jacob, that I give you a lot of credit for, and I was just thinking about it when you're talking about the the food and stuff like that. So it was um it's been easier for me to make good, i was going to say good, or ah better and healthier choices. um Of course, since I got sober, because i got clear mind, I understand a little bit more about just things in general and my health in general. So it's been easier for me to like, um, I basically, um, kind of stopped eating fast food some, some years ago because it didn't make me feel good. Now I ate it when, like you said, you know, when, when we're drinking and the cheeseburgers and whatever, do they have George Webb on the other side of the state?

01:00:59.85
Mike
Yep.

01:01:00.31
Jacob
ah What's that?

01:01:02.17
Bill
Do they have George Webb on the other side?

01:01:03.19
Jacob
Oh, no, no, they don't have George Webb over here. No, but we've got, uh, yeah, it's like a diner or something like, is that our, uh,

01:01:05.62
Bill
You know what George Webb is though, right? i Yeah, I took I took Mike there when when he was in in Wisconsin.

01:01:11.58
Mike
and this

01:01:13.00
Bill
And but it's there was the first time that I had ever in my life at that point. and That was what, five years ago, six, maybe seven years ago that I had ever been there sober, which is, you know, kind of an example of what you were just talking about.

01:01:18.42
Mike
yeah

01:01:24.64
Bill
So eating bad food and eating the sugars and like eat McDonald's and um all those sort of things.

01:01:24.82
Jacob
yeah.

01:01:30.28
Bill
And again, no offense, if anyone wants to eat fast food, that's fine. It just got to the point where I wasn't feeling well when I when I ate that stuff.

01:01:33.14
Jacob
Yeah.

01:01:36.91
Bill
Um, so surprisingly I was, yeah I was eating had very relatively speaking, um, healthy diet. So when I had my, my health issue again, a handful of months ago, um, really didn't have to make a lot of changes.

01:01:50.52
Bill
You know, I mean, I, I walk more and i exercise more and that sort of thing to your, to your point with that. Um, and it might be, but I'm, I'm 57 years old, you know, and the, the thing that gets to me, I get tired, but it's my, my knees.

01:01:55.58
Jacob
Yeah.

01:01:59.67
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

01:02:03.73
Bill
I mean, I've got, you know, my, my knees will hurt more than more than anything else on on my body. And I get a little tired from doing it, but. the The food part of it, it's hard. I still eat ice cream every night.

01:02:14.90
Bill
um i I quit vaping when when this whole thing happened. I quit smoking a few years ago. um Fast food, I love it, but I know it's not good for you. but So i I make some choices here and there.

01:02:25.70
Bill
There's still things. i I drink soda, but I talk to the doctor about it. I'm like, should I quit doing this?

01:02:29.35
Jacob
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:02:30.50
Bill
She's like, just don't drink five a day. And I'm like, I drink maybe two. She's like, it's okay. But I had a full blood work workup. I'm going to have that again again soon. So things like this that I'm keeping an eye on. But it took, even though my point with all of this is even though I had the knowledge, I know what it's i know what it's like to make healthy choices, I still um didn't go to the doctor, didn't could have prevented some of the stress I caused myself and my body, you know, if I just would have went in and had a fucking physical, you know.

01:02:59.06
Bill
So on top of everything else that, that, you know, if the people out there that are listening, I mean, what, what Jacob is talking about in the, the, obviously the whole functional medicine, that's amazing in and of itself, but also take this other thing is that what he's, what he's been able to do just by making healthy choices since that point is kind of amazing.

01:03:00.18
Jacob
Yeah.

01:03:18.14
Bill
So on. But on top of that, like Mike and I were talking about a few months ago is that worst case scenario, just go get some goddamn blood work, you know?

01:03:25.72
Jacob
Exactly.

01:03:25.98
Bill
Go to the doctor every once in a while.

01:03:26.79
Jacob
Oh, yeah.

01:03:27.46
Bill
You know, you quit drinking, you quit doing ah the other stuff. Go take a look. at Do you have elevated blood sugar? do you have this and that? do you have whatever the case is?

01:03:34.76
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

01:03:35.06
Bill
Some of these minor things, you could prevent a major circumstance. Now, once again, we always don't have the greatest heads on our shoulders. You included, Jacob, because you weren't thinking about it. they None of us did that, you know, when you had liver failure, you know, but now that we're sober individuals it it should be easier hopefully by hearing some of these things to make the right choices and make that easier i would i would hope so

01:03:58.94
Jacob
Yeah, yeah. And I think to your point, like with you get when you do that when you're getting your physical done and you're doing your blood work, they may not they probably won't check a ah liver test. like There's like a...

01:04:11.83
Jacob
they can do a liver panel test and you could just request it and just request it to, so, you know, because that's kind of like, like I talked about the liver being a silent killer.

01:04:13.91
Bill
right

01:04:21.46
Jacob
Like it' it's slowly getting inflamed because it doesn't have the pain receptors. So you don't even realize that you're doing all this damage necessarily until it gets so inflamed that it starts, like all sudden when your side starts hurting on the right side, it's like it's probably pushing on something else because now it's gotten so inflamed, you know, and it's and it's hurting other things, you know.

01:04:36.15
Mike
this

01:04:43.74
Jacob
and um ah Okay.

01:04:44.09
Mike
Right. I'm laughing because at the end of at the end of my drinking, I was getting pains in my right side, my liver.

01:04:50.44
Bill
Right.

01:04:50.81
Mike
Right. And I knew it. I knew what the fuck it was. And, and but I'm an alcoholic and that's fine.

01:04:53.69
Jacob
Yeah.

01:04:56.37
Mike
Um, you know?

01:04:57.30
Jacob
Right, right, exactly.

01:04:59.01
Mike
Yeah. And amazingly, I haven't had those pains in the last 15 Um, fifteen years um Yeah, right.

01:05:03.93
Bill
right

01:05:04.12
Jacob
Oh, oh that that's great. That's great.

01:05:06.71
Mike
But, I mean, yeah, i you know, I knew it was happening and and and didn't care.

01:05:07.17
Jacob
And

01:05:10.71
Mike
You know, what am I going to do?

01:05:11.97
Jacob
yeah.

01:05:12.15
Mike
Stop drinking? um Right.

01:05:13.85
Jacob
Right, right. And and that that's going to be the next step because, I mean, yeah, if once you get the once you get the report and you see what's going on you got to maybe evaluate and make some changes.

01:05:15.51
Mike
But.

01:05:20.03
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:24.02
Jacob
but But it might take – it's going to maybe take, you know, like like in your case, whether you're not ready to quit. But it might be time to say, i got a problem.

01:05:32.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:35.82
Jacob
like i Like I want to see my – you know, I've got three daughters.

01:05:36.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:39.95
Jacob
I want to see – at this point they were –

01:05:44.94
Jacob
They were 10 or under. And so I got three daughters. I want to see them graduate. I want to see them get them i want to walk them down the aisle someday.

01:05:49.82
Mike
Right.

01:05:53.04
Bill
Right.

01:05:53.20
Mike
Right.

01:05:53.24
Jacob
i want to You want to be there for your family. So it's it's it you have to like has to look at that and say, you know what, I need some help.

01:05:55.51
Mike
Yeah.

01:06:02.12
Jacob
like It's clear. i can see And if you have that blood work and you see those liver enzymes are really elevated, they're going to kind of, you know, it's going to be a little bit eye-opening. You've got to... if if it is bad but maybe it's not maybe it's not as bad as you think too but uh depends on how you know how your drinking is but um but but yeah like you're saying bill maybe it's it's just get doing that and then before it gets to this point of like where i'm at where it's like life or death it could you could get you could get there and you could you could see that i if i've been able to to to heal things and improve and get healthy probably healthier than i've ever been in my life

01:06:20.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:30.60
Bill
Right.

01:06:42.68
Jacob
If I've been able to do that in my condition three years ago, then if you aren't at that point yet and you're ready to make some changes, like, like now, but like you could you be way ahead of me.

01:06:54.05
Jacob
You are a bit way ahead of, you know, you'll say get the same. You should be able to get some results very positive. So.

01:06:59.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:59.66
Bill
Right. Well, and the other thing, too, is, ah you know, like I said, that just it's it's one of those things where, you know, in going back to the, you know, the the openness that that people have these days and the, you know, like ah ah I keep going back to the word stigma, you know, the stigma is down and the conversations are up and there's communities out there and there's places where people can turn and there's more information.

01:07:17.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:19.43
Bill
and

01:07:20.44
Jacob
I love it

01:07:20.47
Bill
You know, the the thing of it is when we when we now search for information on, you know, like, ah ah you know, I was always searching for I think you had mentioned it before, Jacob, you're trying to figure out, you know, the how can I drink better?

01:07:29.80
Jacob
it.

01:07:33.00
Bill
Or what's the alcohol? What's the good part?

01:07:34.38
Jacob
Right.

01:07:34.60
Bill
Like, we all did.

01:07:35.06
Jacob
Am I an alcoholic?

01:07:35.64
Bill
We all did that.

01:07:36.60
Jacob
Yeah.

01:07:36.70
Bill
yeah Yeah.

01:07:36.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:37.18
Bill
Am I an alcoholic? Right. But I mean, now it's like when, when you try to, if you try to search, I mean, the, the internet is so smart these days. If you try to search for something that gives you this, well, what, what's the good way for me to be bad to myself?

01:07:50.02
Bill
It's going to say, you know, kind like, Hey, nice try fucker, but here's your real answer. You know, and I mean, that's literally the the internet now these days.

01:07:54.62
Jacob
Right.

01:07:54.65
Mike
he

01:07:57.87
Bill
I mean, it's just, you could ask seven different questions, seven different ways. It's going to be, well, that's a good question, but this is your answer. The good question, but this is your answer. So, you know, and everyone uses Google, everyone uses the internet, you know, for those things.

01:08:06.42
Jacob
that's That's interesting. Yeah.

01:08:09.75
Bill
So,

01:08:10.10
Jacob
Yeah.

01:08:10.44
Bill
My point is is that the having these conversations, and and that's what I wanted to get into yeah next is kind of ask you about that. But i having these conversations, I think, is it's not only interesting as hell.

01:08:17.64
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

01:08:21.40
Bill
I mean, we're learning ah something new tonight, right, Mike? I mean, um a lot of things new you know tonight, but you know what great opportunities, hopefully, for people.

01:08:25.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:30.05
Bill
so um You mentioned ah a few different times, Jacob, and I know you said it you know when you were talking to Brad also.

01:08:31.91
Jacob
I hope so. um so

01:08:36.26
Bill
You get a lot of people reaching out. You have conversations. what are What do you do? What's your goal? What's your process? What do you try to do now with all this information and all this life experience that you have?

01:08:48.95
Jacob
Yeah, it's i what i what I started to do is I put I put together like an email like because I was getting asked so often and and I was and and I was trying to type it into like a message. And it's like, oh, man, like this is good. I'm getting overwhelmed with like and it. Plus, it's a lot to type in there and like. And I'm repeating a lot of the same information. So i kind of that's when i I kind of just put together an email that kind of lays out what I'm doing, what what I did so that and including like how ah how I'm exercising and what, you know, how often I am lifting weights or running or whatever.

01:09:27.10
Jacob
a down to the ALA and then really a lot of in-depth information about the ALA um infusions because that seems to be one that it's very interesting and and i um I think is it would be so like the supplements and stuff like that are really good and helpful and all those things all the all these factors that I've put into they all are like pieces of the of the puzzle of healing but the alien infusions are probably one of the because there's like literally studies done that show strong success and like healing liver with these things um from from these books and i share what book that the book that you can read it um if you want more information and and looking at that where you can find it just and again i'm not i'm not promoting anything any brands or any any any treatments it's other than i am promoting the ala infusions because i i believe so strongly in them um that if you don't have it if you if you

01:10:20.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:28.34
Bill
Right.

01:10:31.29
Jacob
If you feel like you don't know where to turn, maybe try this. And and you got to commit to some of this stuff because the problem, the but the the challenge I think I see with functional medicine sometimes is from when I'm talking to people is –

01:10:49.18
Jacob
Justin That the the cost of it, because unfortunately, like the lot of people are stuck to modern medicine, because that's where the and like an insurance and insurance will pay pay there.

01:10:56.72
Mike
Right.

01:10:58.22
Jacob
And so functional medicine typically is not covered by most insurances. And so it's a lot more out of pocket.

01:11:04.08
Bill
Okay.

01:11:04.18
Mike
oh

01:11:06.42
Jacob
um And so the only thing I would say is like, don't if this is your life is on the line here. And like if you have to take out a you know a loan, like talk to the bank and get a get a ah line of credit or get some do what you got to do to you know, talk, talk to the family.

01:11:18.19
Mike
Right.

01:11:26.14
Jacob
Like if if you really commit to this. it it can be ah It can be a little costly, and I'm not – I mean, I'm talking like you know an appointment might be $400 or $500 out of pocket, or you know an ALA infusion might be $200 or $300.

01:11:41.97
Jacob
um But you've got to pay that every time, so it can get it adds up.

01:11:42.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:45.37
Jacob
you know it's it's It's cheaper than what you see some of these bills at the hospital, but insurance just covers covers that.

01:11:45.46
Mike
Right.

01:11:45.71
Bill
Right.

01:11:49.43
Mike
Right.

01:11:50.61
Jacob
So i wish I wish insurance would cover more of this stuff because –

01:11:55.03
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:55.64
Jacob
if there was some way to to get it, because I think that holds a lot of people back from it a little bit um because of that.

01:12:00.09
Mike
Sure, course.

01:12:03.25
Jacob
And it's a shame because it it actually it's proven it's proving ah really effective. And and and I hate the fact that care, you know, is not the you know,

01:12:08.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:16.17
Jacob
a good good care good wellness care is not affordable for everyone you know or or because because our insurance isn't going to cover that why won't you you know that's going to keep that's going actually keep less claims i would think because they're going to be working on their wellness you know but but that's

01:12:21.50
Mike
Right.

01:12:28.47
Mike
m

01:12:30.71
Bill
Now is there, and just a quick, maybe you don't know this, but it just a ah thought. I mean, if, if somebody had an HSA account, um you know, obviously money they're putting aside for medical expenses, could they use that for something like this?

01:12:41.85
Bill
Or are you, do you, have you, have you ever used something like that?

01:12:43.38
Jacob
i Yeah, yeah, I would i believe you you that would that would would qualify because I believe supplements and stuff like that are.

01:12:50.55
Bill
Okay.

01:12:53.10
Jacob
there's a lot of there's whatever Whatever plan it is, I think there's a stipulations in there. So i that's that's a good point.

01:12:58.22
Bill
Right.

01:12:59.69
Jacob
That's something to to definitely consider. you know and And sometimes maybe if if if you find out. The other thing, I i mean, this is – I'm not trying to – um promote this either unless you feel that it's the best for you and your family but maybe instead of those high insurance premiums you say i'm going really be dedicated and set this money into so this special account that i have instead of paying the premium i'm going to set aside here so that i can pay for my my all this treatment that i want to have that's not covered you know i mean that's just another idea but um

01:13:30.01
Mike
Right.

01:13:30.02
Bill
Right.

01:13:31.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:32.95
Bill
Well, and you know, the the thing with it, and I've been um relatively um relatively speaking, with the exception, again, is this thing I had handful of months ago, relatively healthy over the years.

01:13:43.30
Bill
And again, I'm i'm almost, um not almost, I am, I'm in my i'm in my late 50s.

01:13:46.27
Mike
Hmm.

01:13:47.98
Bill
You know, so

01:13:48.25
Jacob
Sure.

01:13:49.50
Bill
The type of medical insurance that I've always cared carried for myself since I've been single is what I consider to be catastrophic insurance. You know, I get, I have basics to cover.

01:13:57.40
Jacob
Yeah.

01:13:58.81
Bill
like I can get a physical, I can cover this, I can cover these basic things. But if I go into the hospital, I've got a deductible that's, you know, five grand or seven grand or whatever it is. But my premiums are minimal, you know.

01:14:08.22
Jacob
Yep. Okay.

01:14:10.21
Bill
And, you know, so maybe that's, ah maybe that's something.

01:14:10.72
Jacob
Okay. Yeah.

01:14:13.29
Bill
But i don' I don't have, I don't have three young kids. I don't have that anymore, you know. But I mean, that maybe that's something people can look at. And these are the the HSA just popped into my head. Our our point with all of this is that the reason I asked Jacob, you know, obviously you've been you've been through and you're going through it.

01:14:22.52
Jacob
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:14:27.17
Bill
But if somebody is looking at doing any of these things, I think Jacob's point in our our point when we're adding you know little bits and pieces in here is, um Explore all of your options. There's plenty of things out there that you could look at, whether it be, you know, if you know you're not going to use this, maybe save some money over here, do some money over there.

01:14:45.17
Bill
I mean, again, talk to family members. I mean, God, worst case scenario. I mean, I, I've never needed a GoFundMe before, but you see them all the time. Somebody ends up, you know, somebody's dying, you know, and that's what these GoFundMes are, you know, not to, not to take care of, ah you know, like foot surgery to to make your nails look better or something like that.

01:15:03.24
Bill
you know, You know, if you're, if you're dying of liver failure, you know, maybe there's a community of friends out there, open, open your eyes and open up your, your thoughts and your mind.

01:15:03.42
Jacob
Yeah

01:15:11.20
Bill
And there there's opportunities out there, but that's a good point. I guess I forgot. I wasn't even thinking about the cost of it, but I get it. You know, and it's a, it's a shame, I suppose that not even, I suppose it is a shame, you know, that your standard insurance may not cover something like that though.

01:15:21.82
Jacob
it is, it is

01:15:25.34
Jacob
And I just wanted to I only mention it because that's probably been, you know, some of the I think a lot of people like the this whole concept of it. And and that can sometimes hold them back because, you know, they they they keep going to the other doctor because the insurance pays for that.

01:15:40.78
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:15:42.62
Jacob
And so then they're not maybe improving.

01:15:43.00
Mike
Right.

01:15:44.90
Jacob
And some in some cases I was actually. I wasn't improving, you know, for example, like one of the things like they were giving me Tylenol for my pain for pain.

01:15:53.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:15:54.23
Jacob
And I when I went to my functional medicine doctor, he's like he looks i he said, bring all this stuff, all your you know prescriptions and stuff. And we're going look at them.

01:16:01.50
Mike
Right.

01:16:02.08
Jacob
And he looks and he's and he looks he's like, this is like the worst, absolute worst thing that you could take when you're in liver failure.

01:16:08.60
Mike
Yeah, hell, i even I know that.

01:16:09.21
Jacob
And ah right.

01:16:10.40
Mike
Right.

01:16:10.58
Bill
Yeah.

01:16:10.96
Mike
Don't take Tylenol.

01:16:10.98
Bill
Yep. I do too. Yep.

01:16:11.96
Mike
It's bad for your liver.

01:16:12.98
Jacob
And I said, well, I said, well, why would they give it to me? You know, and and and to his credit, he did not bash him. He said that's he says it's because that's the tools they have in their toolbox.

01:16:20.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:24.73
Jacob
He said, look I'll show you.

01:16:24.70
Mike
Right.

01:16:26.29
Jacob
i have I have other tools that I'm going we're going to use and and I'll show you.

01:16:28.31
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:16:30.81
Jacob
And so. But, I mean, that's just sometimes sometimes some of the treatments and the methods that they have because that's just how they're trained or that's what they know and so that's what they offer.

01:16:43.29
Jacob
And it might not be the best thing for you, but they they don't they don't either they don't believe in the alternatives like some of these other things or they or they don't aren't aware of them, you know.

01:16:53.62
Mike
Yeah, they right they're just ignorant of them.

01:16:55.70
Bill
Right.

01:16:55.74
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

01:16:56.40
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, again, all of this stuff and, uh, and that's, uh, you know, my, my point before is just, if if nothing else, I mean, granted every, anyone and everyone that's, that's going to go through something like this, regardless of whether it's, you know, liver failure or but another sort of health issue.

01:17:11.54
Bill
I mean, you, you've got to you got to do a hell of a lot of research. You should at least, um, you know, don't necessarily, I mean, uh, I mean, God, since we were kids, I mean, even back in, back in the old days, you know, people were still talking about, you know, your TV shows, you know, oh, I'm going to get a second opinion.

01:17:15.10
Jacob
Yeah.

01:17:22.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:26.74
Bill
you know it's at The second opinion thing was always a point, but why wouldn't you?

01:17:30.14
Jacob
Yeah.

01:17:31.02
Bill
you know if you It's not that I don't trust doctors.

01:17:31.67
Jacob
Yeah.

01:17:31.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:34.18
Bill
i just I need to trust. I need to really feel comfortable with a doctor to have my you know kind of like just – I mean, think about it. I mean, that these are, these are individuals that can, that could save, or I guess, theoretically ruin your life, you know?

01:17:48.65
Bill
And, you know, I, I want to be able to feel comfortable with them that what, what he or she is telling me is the truth.

01:17:48.80
Jacob
huh

01:17:55.41
Bill
And then, yeah, I mean, Tylenol, was thinking the same thing. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I mean, we've all known about, I think, you know, we've known about Tylenol. You know, that's, it's, yeah.

01:18:02.99
Jacob
It says it right on the package, really. I mean i think it says it could cut.

01:18:05.69
Mike
Right.

01:18:06.52
Bill
Yeah. Especially if you're drinking more than five alcoholic beverages a week.

01:18:11.19
Jacob
Right, something like that.

01:18:12.42
Bill
that's a That's why I stopped taking the title a little years ago because I read the package. I'm like, oh, fuck, man. I get you. I get started taking this.

01:18:18.07
Jacob
Yeah.

01:18:18.33
Bill
you know so um But I mean, i just that it's probably the the only the only advice I took off of medicine bottle ever in my life because I don't know. I figured that I just, whatever, didn't didn't need it or or didn't want to take it.

01:18:28.97
Bill
But Um, so just with doing this though, with, um, and what a great idea, I mean, putting things into an email.

01:18:29.72
Jacob
Yeah.

01:18:36.02
Bill
So if somebody reaches out to you, then you could basically send them a, like a flyer ish or an email that has all this information, maybe has some links, has some the highlights, frequently asked questions, I guess, ish, you know, but it's something you can give to somebody to, um, at least get them started on, on the right path.

01:18:47.19
Jacob
Exactly. Yep.

01:18:52.23
Bill
Does that sound, is that right?

01:18:53.62
Jacob
That sounds right. Yeah. And and so they most the people will message me like on Instagram or something. I might they'll message me and they'll say, could I get some more information?

01:19:00.10
Bill
Kivolowitz, Norcal PTACCIA, Sure. Perry Kivolowitz, PTACCIA, Right.

01:19:02.82
Jacob
And and then I i share that with them. And it's you know, when I so when I started this whole thing, it was it was kind of just a mainly to for my so for my own recovery.

01:19:13.00
Jacob
And just I was I wanted a kind of a space where I could where I could.

01:19:19.32
Jacob
Aaron Shawlund 3, 2nd, 1st, 1st, sober influencers or in different ones and and just kind of stay on the right track and then also maybe you know kind of have my own my own little thing but but i did find there's a lot of interest around it and i found that people there's a lot of people what i was surprised about I should say is I was a little bit, I think even when I started, I didn't want like people to know it was, I still had that shame. you know I didn't really want, I kind of was like ah nameless and and it was real, i you know i didn't even have a picture of myself and I kind of just wanted it to be, you know but but but what happened was,

01:19:58.14
Jacob
um i I when i I was new to like Instagram stuff like this. So I had ended up I made this thing and then I made a post and I shared it and I ended up sharing it on my personal too.

01:20:10.90
Jacob
So um so I cats out of the bag now.

01:20:12.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:13.76
Jacob
And um what was what was so great about that was.

01:20:14.07
Bill
hey

01:20:19.80
Jacob
When I found out, i i kind of panicked for a second. Like my wife said, i got a message from somebody. They said how great it was that you are, you know, coming, you know, being open about that and that they've been kind of struggling and and they really appreciated did your post and that that they're they're really motivated to maybe...

01:20:39.22
Jacob
get back on track. And I thought, and I said, well, how did she, how did she even find it?

01:20:41.24
Bill
Right.

01:20:43.66
Jacob
Like, I think I had like 10 followers. Like, I don't know how this even is anything, you know? And, and I also, and I checked my page and I, and I just had just, you know, so much support and so many people like,

01:21:00.22
Jacob
um direct messaging me some people direct message me saying that they were struggling or they've struggled in the past and just so supportive and to the thing i learned at that point was there's a lot of people that are that are struggling with this private privately and that was when the eye that was eye-opening for me that you know what you gotta

01:21:16.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:16.52
Bill
Right.

01:21:16.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:26.09
Jacob
I felt a need to take a little bit of a lead and like it's okay to be open about this. It's okay to speak up about this because this could save some lives. And so i like it.

01:21:38.04
Jacob
There's not that we got to stop the shame and I had enough shame and and when I was addicted and it's time to to to to say, you know what, that's i that's what that's who I wasn't Here's where I am now, and I've done it, and I've done it, and you can do it too, and it's okay.

01:21:53.02
Mike
Right.

01:21:55.57
Mike
hmm.

01:21:56.12
Jacob
It's okay that you are struggling. like It happens.

01:21:58.33
Mike
Right.

01:21:59.45
Jacob
you know um So that's that's kind of how that whole whole thing. think So my I guess what I – it's getting a little bit off track here, but what i was trying to what I'm trying to say is I i didn't do this for – To become a major influencer.

01:22:13.30
Jacob
to make you know be I'm not trying to make a bunch of money on this or anything. It's all for free. it's just like I'm just trying to be keep myself accountable to to be able to like recover out loud so that I can help break some of that stigma and shame that people feel.

01:22:22.71
Bill
Right.

01:22:30.52
Jacob
Help other people feel open and and feel like there's a safe place. because you guys maybe I don't know if you ever noticed this, but when you are open about your mistakes,

01:22:41.85
Jacob
Like when you're talking to someone and and you don't do it with it, you don't just go and do it with everyone.

01:22:43.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:45.85
Jacob
You know, it's usually like a one you're talking and somehow you kind of like speak up and it you can feel like this safety in the room.

01:22:46.23
Mike
Right.

01:22:54.33
Jacob
Like people like feel like. it's a safe place. And I, you know, I'm, here's what I, here's something I am, or I'm worried about my brother. I'm worried about my uncle and they feel safe to talk to you about it.

01:23:07.16
Jacob
And what, what could I do to help them?

01:23:07.53
Bill
Right.

01:23:07.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:09.08
Jacob
You know, what do you think? And, and, and, and sometimes it's, and that's been one of the most rewarding things. And, and, and I just think it's, so it's, it's one of the things I just,

01:23:22.04
Jacob
really enjoy about this is that connection and being able to, to feel like people feel they have a place that they could go talk to you. And I, but I don't, I know you, I don't you guys, did you guys do the AA thing or yeah.

01:23:36.31
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:23:36.79
Bill
Yeah. Yep.

01:23:37.82
Jacob
Okay.

01:23:38.14
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Both of us. And Mike was, ah Mike did a little bit more of the, the California touchy feely stuff some years ago, but both of us, this, this time around we did, did AA and we're still um active.

01:23:44.08
Mike
Mmm.

01:23:48.77
Jacob
Okay.

01:23:50.14
Bill
Mike's Mike's certainly more active than I am with it, but like, like this, the the podcast, this is our, this is our way to, we've been doing this just a little over four years now, but it's an opportunity for us to, for Mike and I to have a meeting.

01:23:52.69
Jacob
Alright. Yeah.

01:24:02.86
Bill
We get to meet a lot of interesting people like yourself, learn some shit, learn some, But also, you know, it's like, ah you know, spread the messages, they would say, the same as we would if we were speaking in in ah in an AA meeting.

01:24:09.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:13.23
Bill
We do understand 100% that we've learned over the last, you know, four years how many more options there are out there.

01:24:13.56
Jacob
yeah

01:24:20.67
Bill
um Again, this community is, up you you said these things, community, a connection, people not feeling alone.

01:24:24.94
Jacob
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:24:26.78
Bill
You know, human beings are no different than animals. I mean, we we all we all travel in packs, or at least we want to. We want to be unique, but we don't want to be different, you know. ah We always want to have somebody else ah understand where we're coming from.

01:24:39.30
Bill
um is As much as all of us want to be alone, we still, I mean, Mike and I are good examples of that. Both of us love our alone time, um but also we realize that we need people, you know.

01:24:46.20
Mike
Right.

01:24:48.88
Bill
So the whole point with ah in Instagram, I literally got on Instagram for the same exact reason, sounds like, as you did. um I needed, i was missing something.

01:24:56.24
Jacob
Yeah.

01:24:57.56
Bill
I wanted a a place to anonymously um talk about my sobriety. And we started doing this and it took me a little bit, but I opened up and, you know, now I use my first and my last name. I use it openly.

01:25:08.04
Bill
I didn't for years.

01:25:09.53
Jacob
yeah

01:25:09.66
Bill
You know, i was 12 years sober, 11 going 12 when we started doing this. And I hadn't i hadn't been open, um you know, in a public forum, social media or anything like that in the first 11 or 12 years.

01:25:14.46
Mike
right

01:25:22.17
Bill
You know, but um now just since we got on here um is when I it was a couple of years ago, a few years ago, two and a half now, yeah something in that inner air range.

01:25:22.52
Jacob
okay

01:25:28.41
Mike
Right. Yep.

01:25:30.05
Bill
But that I had opened up with with this. But, um you know, it was the right time for me. And Mike's always been open, you know always used his first and last name and always had it open on Facebook and Facebook.

01:25:40.84
Bill
in every place.

01:25:40.89
Jacob
OK. Yeah.

01:25:41.40
Bill
And it's basically to each his own. But, you know, the thing it is an Instagram is a pain in the ass in a lot of cases.

01:25:44.12
Jacob
yeah

01:25:47.48
Bill
So is Facebook. i mean, all social media is. But when you get down to the to the core of it, if you just look at the core of what of what the sober community is on, whether it's Instagram, Facebook or any other platform like that, and if you use it for that, it's a wonderful tool.

01:25:50.10
Jacob
ye

01:26:04.31
Jacob
yep

01:26:04.31
Bill
And it's a great place to get knowledge and spread knowledge. I mean, we do it. We post it. You've probably seen it. I mean, you if you've followed us at all, I mean, yeah, but you see the nasty shit that I post too.

01:26:10.58
Jacob
Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yep, I follow you guys. Yep. Oh, yeah.

01:26:14.94
Bill
And it's memes and it's a lot of fun.

01:26:15.78
Jacob
ah

01:26:15.96
Mike
Yep.

01:26:17.43
Jacob
Yeah, yeah.

01:26:17.55
Bill
And we are our podcast and we get mouthy on here far more than we have been tonight.

01:26:18.21
Jacob
Alright.

01:26:21.83
Bill
and you know But well you'll hear it a little bit when Mike wraps up too.

01:26:22.97
Jacob
That. another that

01:26:25.79
Bill
but um

01:26:27.22
Jacob
That's fine.

01:26:27.38
Bill
but the But the thing of it is, is just that, I mean, we we try to just, I don't know, try to be ourselves, but also, you know, be respectful of other other people out there.

01:26:28.63
Jacob
Yeah.

01:26:35.99
Bill
But um I mean, quite honestly, it sounds like everything that that you're that you're doing and trying to do out there, you know, to be a voice for this.

01:26:36.59
Jacob
Mm-hmm.

01:26:43.95
Bill
Because again, you're talking to two of us, and I'm sure a ton of people um that had no idea what functional medicine was, you know, or anything like that. Again, I'm not saying that we should have known, maybe we should have, maybe we shouldn't have, but I mean, it's ah it's a whole new wealth of knowledge that we've learned just by just by listening to you tonight.

01:27:00.92
Bill
It's been wonderful.

01:27:01.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:01.69
Jacob
Cool. Well, you know, interesting that you – the fact that you said you didn't really know about it because what has happened so many times and why I was really excited when you reached out to me and you said, I really just want to – I want to talk about this. And I was really glad that you did that because when we – when I've done – ah The other ones, which have been I've been great. I've enjoyed working with with all the different hosts and and I think it's awesome that they invited me on. And and any time I get, you know, there's opportunities like that. I think it's it's a great time to share. And and but but a lot of times in the comments, you know, I would see people say, can you know,

01:27:44.47
Jacob
He didn't say much about he we wanted to hear more about the functional medicine or we wanted to hear more about what he did. And we want to, you know, there'll be a lot of different comments like that. And and so I think there's definitely an interest.

01:27:56.69
Jacob
There's people are there's people who hadn't heard about it and they're kind of they're searching for stuff. And and you'll see a that this topic gets a lot of, you know, liver cirrhosis and liver related stuff gets ah a lot of interest because a lot of people are dealing with it.

01:28:11.06
Mike
Right.

01:28:14.58
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:28:14.70
Bill
Right.

01:28:15.34
Mike
i mean, yeah, you know, we poisoned ourselves for decades. We're going to do some damage and it's none of us are immune from ah from it.

01:28:20.24
Jacob
Yeah.

01:28:23.06
Bill
Well, that's the, you know, like you had said with the other podcasts, and I, like I said, I'll say and i'll say it again. there's ah There's two main sober podcasts that I listen to that I talk about on here. Sober Friends ah podcast, we had Matt on there. We had him on here, one of the hosts on here, but don't know, a few years ago.

01:28:40.60
Bill
And then, ah you know, I found Brad's podcast, gosh, I don't even know, a couple years ago, two, three years ago.

01:28:44.09
Jacob
yep

01:28:46.47
Bill
And Brad's been, I think he's been doing doing his podcast ah just a little bit longer than, than we have probably between the four to five year period. But and again, he's very structured.

01:28:55.17
Jacob
Okay. Yes.

01:28:57.34
Bill
Every single one of his episodes is is the same structure.

01:28:57.82
Jacob
yes

01:28:59.98
Bill
And it is. It's a story from, I always say, cradle to gray, but not that people die. But it's from start to ah basically the time they get sober. And we don't tend to necessarily hear what happens or, like you said, get it have the opportunity to get into the details.

01:29:13.15
Bill
And that's why Mike and I, it just happened by accident, right, Mike? That we were just kind of like, we had a a few guests on that it probably got more long-winded, which is fine.

01:29:16.65
Mike
Right.

01:29:22.44
Bill
you know But then we're like, we don't want to do that shit anymore. you know we We want to talk about something other than just, you know just we we stopped we stopped going to meetings where people were doing that.

01:29:25.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:31.32
Bill
So why repeat that here type of thing?

01:29:31.51
Mike
right

01:29:34.19
Bill
And not that there's nothing wrong with it. You know, people have got, we've had people tell their complete stories in a relatively concentrated form format before. And it's been wonderful, you know, but you know, we just, it was it was funny.

01:29:44.02
Jacob
Yeah, yep.

01:29:46.89
Bill
And, uh, it was a gentleman that we had on, um, I don't know, got six months ago now, maybe even a little longer in his name's Ian. And he wrote a book and he came on and, uh, I had, I had talked to him.

01:29:57.22
Bill
Mike had a, uh, a family emergency he was dealing with that night.

01:29:59.83
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:00.34
Bill
So it was just me and Ian, uh, And so, you know, told the same thing, you know, even though Mike wasn't here, I'm like, this is how we handle things, blah, blah, blah. So then we went through this whole thing and i and Ian and I talked for an hour and a half, you know, and about everything, it seemed like it, it was great.

01:30:12.33
Jacob
Okay.

01:30:14.44
Bill
So same thing, I'm listening to Sober Motivation. I'm listening to this, to this story and I'm not paying attention to the name. In about 35 minutes into the episode, This guy starts talking about something that I've heard before, you know, and I'm like, wait a second.

01:30:28.02
Bill
And I look and it's, it's Ian that I, that we had had on here, I don't know, a month earlier. But the thing of it is, is he, he went through 35 minutes of his, his past that I, he and I never talked about, you know?

01:30:41.46
Bill
And then he got up to the point where, you know, we're kind of like we clued into it, that little piece.

01:30:44.20
Jacob
Yeah.

01:30:46.38
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, holy shit, that's kind of weird, you know, but, um, and again, it's nothing's good, bad, or indifferent.

01:30:48.85
Mike
Right.

01:30:51.93
Bill
It's just the way that we do things, you know, on, uh, you know, the, we just decided to do things. And, um, quite honestly, I'm glad we do. And, uh, we get, uh, we get very different conversations sometimes to people and they're, I don't know, to it's again, selfish and self-centered, right?

01:31:05.33
Bill
Mike, you know, we do it for our our own benefit, but um every once in a while, I think it, you know, people, people appreciate it too So.

01:31:08.98
Jacob
yeah

01:31:12.70
Jacob
No, I think it's i think it's it's cool that you guys are have a different way. you have your own You can have your own personality with it, and and you can you can talk about the subjects and things that are interest to you and their interest to other people.

01:31:19.99
Bill
Right.

01:31:26.28
Jacob
and i would just

01:31:26.67
Mike
Mm-hmm. this

01:31:28.57
Jacob
And I, I want um, second what you said about, you know, sober motivation, Brad, I, I really enjoyed, that was one of my, you know, I just really enjoyed that podcast because there was things about my past that Brad has a way about bringing up, I guess, or I don't know how, how to explain it, but it was just, that it wasn't, it was, it was a very, I really enjoyed all all of the, all the podcasts, but you know, that one I really enjoyed and I'm really enjoying this one because it's, it's an opportunity to, you know, um,

01:31:38.46
Bill
Matsakis, Right. Nicholas Matsakis, Right.

01:31:57.62
Jacob
talk about a subject that I haven't really elaborated on a lot, but there's a lot of interest and, and to get to know you guys a little better and, and that sort of thing. So.

01:32:08.89
Bill
Yeah.

01:32:09.03
Mike
Cool.

01:32:09.13
Bill
Well, I mean, yeah, honestly, honestly, we, we really, really appreciate it, but in, you know, kind of getting towards, uh, you know, in, in wrapping up here a little bit, uh, what, what did we miss? Uh, what did you, uh, what else did you want to talk about?

01:32:21.17
Bill
Anything else that we missed? Um, I mean, I'm going to have your, your Instagram, um, obviously handled that now that I have it right, I had an Instagram handle incorrect.

01:32:29.66
Mike
a

01:32:29.88
Jacob
yeah that's

01:32:30.74
Bill
I had it right, but I had periods. You know what it is that your email has the periods in it.

01:32:34.78
Jacob
Yes, it does.

01:32:35.19
Bill
I,

01:32:35.42
Jacob
My email does and Facebook, I think, that doesn't allow the slashes for some reason. i don't know why.

01:32:39.74
Bill
Oh, is it? Is it Facebook too? whatever Whatever it is.

01:32:41.34
Jacob
Yeah, yeah.

01:32:41.82
Bill
And the thing of it is, and I think I looked it up.

01:32:42.44
Jacob
so

01:32:44.22
Bill
I so usually look it up on Instagram, whatever happened, I had it wrong. had period. So it is, is a Instagram tag wrong, but now I've got it correct. So that's in there. So that's the best place for people to go to find you.

01:32:54.58
Bill
Am I correct there?

01:32:55.77
Jacob
Yeah, that's that's the one i i'm I'm most active on. And and then if they if they if they just want to even just message me that they are looking for, even if it's just that, hey, I'm looking for more information, I'll just – I'll forward you the you know the email over.

01:33:07.01
Mike
Mm Cool.

01:33:09.46
Jacob
If you have more questions, they can ask me and stuff like that. That's no not a problem at all. I – I think as far as what I've maybe – it's interesting you know but with the whole story, and I'm guessing you guys – because you guys have – you said 11 years coming on or 16?

01:33:27.66
Jacob
16 years.

01:33:28.00
Bill
1616. Yeah. sixteen yeah

01:33:28.80
Jacob
Yeah, 16 years. 11 years you've been doing this or something. But it's 16 years. You guys have, so you probably have your story. You could probably talk forever about that. You know, all all the, all the things you've maybe experienced through, through this, but, but even just in my three years, you know, I can, I can spend that whole, I've spent most podcasts just talking about,

01:33:49.59
Jacob
you know, how it, what led up to it and then a little bit about how I got it.

01:33:51.58
Mike
Right.

01:33:52.59
Jacob
And then this one, you've, most of the time we've spent talking about the functional medicine, which is great, but, but look at how much time it would take.

01:33:57.84
Mike
Yep.

01:33:59.74
Jacob
The next phase, I would think that I didn't get the chance to talk about, but probably could talk about it for, you know, another hour and a half would be just the benefits of sobriety.

01:34:00.60
Mike
Hmm.

01:34:08.38
Jacob
And that's, that's kind of turned into my, that's,

01:34:08.76
Bill
Mm-hmm.

01:34:11.03
Jacob
that That's really had been the theme of of most of my posting and stuff like that. and and and what i if i ever you know What I'm trying to... It's really about how much life-changing it is and and it it how eye-opening it was.

01:34:22.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:25.22
Jacob
and i and There's just so many different moments. and it It wasn't just an instant like I realized how great it was. It took some time, but once a well there's just a moment when it hits and it's like...

01:34:33.53
Mike
Oh yeah.

01:34:38.71
Jacob
Wow. Like it's, it's, it's,

01:34:39.75
Mike
Well, Hey, this is, this is better than laying face down in a gutter.

01:34:44.12
Bill
hey

01:34:44.18
Jacob
yes.

01:34:44.73
Mike
What do you know?

01:34:45.14
Jacob
Right. Right. Right. But it's, it's a, yeah. So if there's anything I missed that we just probably don't have enough time to cover on in detail, it would just be the, just how great um sobriety has been for me and how it's, it's made me a better person.

01:34:58.57
Mike
Hmm.

01:35:01.61
Mike
Yep.

01:35:01.74
Jacob
It's made me a better father. It's made me a better husband. Um, it It makes me want to work on things. It makes me feel more present. I'm enjoying being present. I'm enjoying.

01:35:12.14
Jacob
I feel i feel like I have more empathy for people. I actually care.

01:35:18.34
Mike
Hmm.

01:35:18.90
Jacob
Whereas before, I just i i felt like I had to fake it you know a little bit because because i was I was so numb.

01:35:19.58
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

01:35:20.25
Bill
ah Right.

01:35:23.19
Mike
yeah

01:35:24.98
Jacob
It wasn't that I didn't care. it was just i was just I wasn't myself. and and i feel you know You feel like you look back and I see the pictures of myself and it's like,

01:35:28.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:36.25
Jacob
A different person. i'm I'm so much.

01:35:37.66
Mike
Yup.

01:35:38.53
Jacob
I'm like a completely like that person is is died and it's I'm a new person now and and And and there's it's like this window for me.

01:35:42.42
Mike
Yup. l

01:35:49.33
Jacob
It's like this window So like and when it wasn't when it wasn't all that bad up until when it got bad That window of a person all sudden you turn into this different person and I think it um if If somebody can recover, like um i think it can it just changes your life. when you if you've gotten to the point where where you've been addicted to something and now you've kind of changed, it changes your personality and it changes your brain chemistry and you're not yourself and you're argumentative and you're just, you know, now I can, I can, I'm like, I can somehow stay calm and like these really like really chaotic moments.

01:36:28.63
Mike
she

01:36:30.86
Jacob
And I'm like, and I, yeah, it's just, and I'm like, and so you feel so powerful, don't you?

01:36:31.22
Mike
handle situations that used to baffle you yep

01:36:38.82
Jacob
I mean, it's, it's just It's just so awesome. And um like I feel that there has been, i could go on and on, but there there's certain moments where it just felt so powerful and you just you enjoy being present.

01:36:49.75
Mike
yep

01:36:55.11
Jacob
You enjoy... And for me, being as close as I was to um when i where I was planning my funeral and thinking about, you know, who was going to carry my casket and, you know, things like that, you know, who's going my pallbearers and who who is those those subjects and who's going to raise my daughters.

01:37:17.46
Jacob
And, you know, to go from that and to now think,

01:37:18.08
Mike
Right.

01:37:22.68
Jacob
Every day now is like such a gift. Like i have to i to remind myself like, man, I'm here. Like I got another day. You know, this is great. And it gives you a different meaning and a different perspective. And I've said that it was one of the worst things that ever happened to me.

01:37:43.00
Jacob
But in a lot of ways, it was like one of the best things that now looking back, it's one of the best things that ever happened to me, which is so bizarre.

01:37:49.34
Bill
Oh,

01:37:50.06
Jacob
I would have never thought this if you asked me that three years ago. You know?

01:37:53.94
Mike
Welcome to it.

01:37:54.90
Jacob
Yes.

01:37:55.13
Bill
yeah.

01:37:55.29
Mike
a

01:37:56.08
Bill
Yeah, we've actually said we've said that a lot, too.

01:37:56.12
Jacob
Right.

01:37:58.37
Bill
you know the All the things that Mike says it all the time, all the things that we went through, all these bad moments over the years, I mean, they they have worth. you know These are things that that we can not only learn from and have learned from, but...

01:38:06.42
Jacob
Yeah.

01:38:10.43
Bill
you know, pass along and, you know, bring it along, bring it to somebody else with, with knowledge. And, you know, the thing of it is, Jacob, I mean, if you ever want to come on again, let us know. I mean, even if ah we've had people come on, like for, I guess, if you want to call it an update episode or something like that, we've had people come on for a half hour, for an hour, for wherever whatever the case is.

01:38:18.54
Jacob
Okay.

01:38:27.15
Bill
Give us a heads up if you want to come on and talk about, um you know, kind of like what's, and that's the, you know, the theoretically an AA lead is, you know, what happened or no, where, how it was, what happened and what it's like now.

01:38:38.65
Bill
So, you know, you want to talk about the, what it's like now. So if you ever want to come on again, let us know.

01:38:42.55
Jacob
Okay. I appreciate that.

01:38:42.85
Bill
We'll, ah we'll find time for you.

01:38:45.05
Jacob
Yeah, thank you.

01:38:45.40
Bill
Yeah, absolutely. All right.

01:38:46.70
Mike
Cool.

01:38:47.08
Bill
So um we'll have your, obviously everything's in the description, your Instagram things in there. If anyone wants any more information, by all means, you know, reach out to Jacob. He's he's there to help. It sounds like.

01:38:57.79
Bill
And obviously we appreciate you coming on.

01:38:58.27
Jacob
Okay.

01:39:00.63
Bill
Mike's got his, ah his fun little way of closing out.

01:39:01.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:39:03.55
Bill
So Jacob, you and I are going to get quiet for a minute.

01:39:04.05
Jacob
All right.

01:39:05.51
Bill
Remember, don't go anywhere. He's going to do this thing, but then we're still going to say our goodbyes and then we don't want to run away yet. Okay.

01:39:11.99
Jacob
Sounds good.

01:39:12.79
Bill
All right.

01:39:13.21
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. Thank you, Jacob, for coming on and sharing ah all your knowledge of functional medicine. Check it out. Check him out on Instagram. Check the link in our description. And as always, be good to each other. be kind to each other. go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:39:38.81
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:39:50.74
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

01:40:08.41
Bill
You know what, Mike? That's probably the that's the most we've sworn. the the most of the Most of the F word that curse that we've used at this entire episode towards the end.

01:40:13.20
Mike
Sworn? Cursed?

01:40:17.72
Mike
Yes.

01:40:18.83
Bill
So look at that, Jacob.

01:40:19.40
Jacob
Oh, sure.

01:40:20.03
Bill
You made us better people tonight because ah we didn't we didn't swear as much.

01:40:20.41
Jacob
Yeah. Okay.

01:40:21.70
Mike
Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha.

01:40:23.88
Bill
but No, I mean, 100%, honestly, um I mean, thank you so much.

01:40:24.38
Jacob
Well. Yeah.

01:40:28.36
Bill
This has been, it's been eye-opening. It's been educational.

01:40:31.12
Jacob
Okay. Okay.

01:40:31.72
Bill
It's been just an interesting in general, obviously, talking with you is ah as an individual. But, man, what what great information. So we we truly, truly appreciate it. So thank you.

01:40:40.47
Jacob
Well, thank you.

01:40:40.57
Mike
aha

01:40:41.81
Jacob
And yeah, I appreciate you you guys ah just inviting me and being, you know, so gracious hosts. And I guess, I mean, i i was going to ask you, Mike, does anybody ever tell you who you that you sound like Anthony Bourdain?

01:40:57.94
Mike
but and No, if that's a new one.

01:40:59.35
Bill
ah

01:41:00.60
Jacob
Like, and that's a big compliment because I love Anthony Bourdain's voice. Like, I mean, he,

01:41:04.48
Mike
Yeah, you know, punk rocker chef, man.

01:41:07.13
Jacob
Yeah, yeah.

01:41:07.61
Bill
Yeah.

01:41:08.29
Jacob
And like every time you talk, I like i like just keep picturing Anthony Bourdain. I love that guy.

01:41:13.36
Mike
Cool.

01:41:14.01
Jacob
so

01:41:14.04
Mike
High praise.

01:41:15.06
Jacob
but But anyways.

01:41:15.13
Bill
Well, good. you Yeah. At least, at least it wasn't somebody that Mike hated. So that's a good thing.

01:41:19.32
Mike
Right. I'll take that one.

01:41:22.10
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

01:41:22.36
Jacob
Right, right.

01:41:23.10
Bill
All right, Mike, I love you, brother.

01:41:25.18
Mike
I love you too.

01:41:26.26
Bill
i know you and I will talk soon.

01:41:27.90
Mike
We shall.

01:41:28.95
Bill
All right. And everyone else. Goodbye. We appreciate it. Thank you.

01:41:32.31
Mike
Yep. Talk to you later.