SoberNotMature - Episode 203 (Your Favorite Time Suck)

00:00:01.27
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another.

00:00:03.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:07.85
Bill
was laughing coming in because Mike and I were chitchat. We had ah our guest, our guest had a, just so everyone knows, Jermaine had a a personal family situation over the last couple of days and ah tonight was not going to be a good thing.

00:00:16.22
Mike
ah

00:00:20.26
Bill
So we we rescheduled them.

00:00:20.44
Mike
Right. And actually, he he showed up.

00:00:21.65
Bill
Yeah.

00:00:23.03
Mike
We got to give him credit. He was here, but he wasn't fully prepared. He was willing, but, you know, ah the technical gods weren't smiling on him because he's been busy.

00:00:33.13
Mike
So, yeah, family stuff. So we said, you know what, dude, we appreciate you showing up.

00:00:35.51
Bill
Yeah.

00:00:38.24
Mike
We want to talk to you. we are going to talk to you on the 30th. So that's what's going to happen.

00:00:43.67
Bill
Exactly. So yeah, we we had to push him off a few weeks just because we've got guests for the next couple of weeks. But for for those of you that that listen and also are follow us on Instagram, maybe if you don't, jump over to Instagram and take a look at his his link and also take a look at his book.

00:00:58.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:00.25
Bill
Um, cause that was the one thing that he, you know, we talked to him for what, three, four minutes, I think, uh, maybe five at the most, but the, the one thing he wanted, uh, um, he's going to want to talk about, which we do too, is his book.

00:01:10.10
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:01:10.48
Bill
Um, so you want to, want to make sure that anyone who who listens to us, uh, you know, take a minute and if, I mean, buy the book, I mean, I don't know how much it is.

00:01:16.76
Mike
Right.

00:01:17.59
Bill
I don't know i where it's available. I know Amazon for sure.

00:01:20.25
Mike
I know I saw a Barnes & Noble link at some point when I was scrolling through his stuff because I was checking his artwork out.

00:01:20.27
Bill
Um, you know, but,

00:01:26.07
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, take a look, do a little bit of homework up, you know, and cause like i said, he, to Mike's point, that's a good point. i'm I'm glad you said that he, he did, he showed up, he was more than willing to do this, which, you know, is, is more than not not even more than we can say for other people, but some people show up unprepared, but they got nothing else going on.

00:01:35.29
Mike
He did.

00:01:43.69
Bill
So he, he showed up, um you know, again, had, had the world on his, on his mind, I think, but yeah, Yeah, it's going to be a good conversation at the end of the month.

00:01:43.98
Mike
Right.

00:01:48.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:51.98
Bill
So, you know what?

00:01:52.50
Mike
me

00:01:52.70
Bill
Fuck it. you're You're stuck with us. And then Mike and I were like back and forth.

00:01:54.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:01:55.66
Bill
He went to grab his book. And I'm like, you're ready. He's like, no. You know, Mr.

00:01:58.36
Mike
a

00:02:00.46
Bill
fucking sarcasm. So I can start off and I'm like, I can't even I can't even you know start off.

00:02:02.10
Mike
ye

00:02:05.26
Bill
Right. So anyhow, in case anyone is is unsure, it is.

00:02:06.94
Mike
Here we are.

00:02:09.19
Bill
It's Mike and Bill and it is sober, not mature.

00:02:10.42
Mike
Yes, it is.

00:02:11.55
Bill
Welcome.

00:02:11.88
Mike
there.

00:02:13.97
Bill
Welcome to episode 203. All right.

00:02:16.34
Mike
Wow.

00:02:17.43
Bill
i know isn't it Yeah, you know, you know, it's funny, though, is that, you know, I look at some of these.

00:02:18.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:21.87
Bill
Well, I mean, the monkey I saw, you know, I follow them on Instagram and also on Facebook.

00:02:26.84
Mike
Right.

00:02:27.27
Bill
And I saw that they were having some I think for tonight, if I looked at the right one, technical difficulties or whatever it is.

00:02:29.94
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, you did. Mm-hmm.

00:02:32.75
Bill
And so they're coming up on 300 episodes, i think.

00:02:35.47
Mike
Yeah, they're getting close. Yeah.

00:02:37.24
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, hi we're right in that range. And then I know that Sober Friends, and i will I'll tell you, i I actually sent an email to Matt from Sober Friends. if Remind me later if I forget.

00:02:48.58
Bill
I just wanted to. It was a nice little interaction that he and I had. But they're in they're in the upper three hundred s or maybe low three hundreds But then, you know, you look at some of these other podcasts, obviously Mark was 16, 1700.

00:02:51.20
Mike
Cool.

00:02:57.46
Mike
who

00:02:58.24
Bill
I get Rogan is like 2,700.

00:02:59.03
Mike
Right, right.

00:03:01.71
Bill
I mean, but that, that dude does like three to four a week.

00:03:02.47
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:04.07
Bill
I think, I mean, it's, it's like a full-time deal for him outside of his, uh, what, uh, IFC or whatever the fuck he does is, you know.

00:03:04.66
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:03:09.56
Mike
Right. Yeah, exactly. well I mean, you know, the radio show that had turned into a podcast that I've been listening to for 30 years. I mean, they're like 3,000, I think. so Real close.

00:03:19.79
Mike
Yeah, I mean, they've been doing it for, i think, 16 years now. And and yeah, yeah.

00:03:23.48
Bill
okay

00:03:24.43
Mike
so They do four a week. Pretty much solid.

00:03:27.00
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:03:27.26
Mike
So, yeah.

00:03:27.88
Bill
You told me. What's his name again?

00:03:29.14
Mike
ah Michael Marichaud.

00:03:31.10
Bill
Oh, okay. Okay.

00:03:31.77
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, so yeah, so again, you know, people have been doing it, but yeah what the hell, man?

00:03:33.28
Bill
Gotcha. i

00:03:37.55
Mike
We've been doing it for, you know, almost, we're getting close to starting our fourth year, right?

00:03:42.30
Bill
Yeah, it's ah February 27th, I believe.

00:03:45.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:03:45.98
Bill
I i know it's not the 28th, so I wanted to say 26th, but I think it's February 27th. It was 22, or no, I'm sorry, yeah, 22 when we released our our first episode.

00:03:54.14
Mike
Yeah. Well.

00:03:56.27
Bill
So yeah, we are we are coming up. you know not i don't know. We could probably front this. we We don't want to front our sobriety, but well, who knows?

00:04:01.56
Mike
he

00:04:03.51
Bill
I mean, I almost died a you know a couple of months ago, so we can't I guess we can't we can't front anything.

00:04:04.31
Mike
hey Right?

00:04:08.55
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:08.73
Mike
We cannot.

00:04:10.23
Bill
All right, so at the moment, we're still in our, we're rounding out, we're coming up, we can see our fourth year of this on the horizon, and then beyond that is our coming up on our 16th year of this whole sobriety thing.

00:04:16.54
Mike
Yes.

00:04:20.34
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:21.07
Bill
So we got shit coming around all over the goddamn place.

00:04:24.25
Mike
Coming around the mountain when she comes.

00:04:27.29
Bill
Yes. But, um but yeah, so I, I don't know.

00:04:28.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:30.34
Bill
I mean, i was looking forward to talking to him and I'm um looking forward to talking to him, but obviously at the end of the month, but yes, seriously, anyone do some, do a little bit of research and you know, he'll, he'll be back and he was, he was, he was cool.

00:04:34.78
Mike
Yep.

00:04:40.66
Bill
I mean, he was just apologetic, but also you could tell that he's really, he's really interested in, you know, getting, getting the word out to what he's doing and all that stuff.

00:04:41.28
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:04:48.47
Mike
Yo.

00:04:49.00
Bill
And, and I didn't even remember how long he had been sober, but he just said 12 years.

00:04:52.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:52.77
Bill
So, but um yeah, he's got some time under his belt too.

00:04:55.77
Mike
He does.

00:04:55.81
Bill
so

00:04:56.81
Mike
Yeah, it's going to be a good conversation. So tune in in a few weeks.

00:04:58.55
Bill
Yeah. Well, tune in in the meantime, too, right?

00:05:02.36
Mike
yeah Yeah, in the meantime, you know, well, you're already here, so what the hell else you got to do?

00:05:06.81
Bill
yeah and somebody's like, well, fuck this shit. I've been i' been waiting to hear listen to Jermaine the entire week, and I've got listen to these fuck knobs.

00:05:13.60
Mike
Yep.

00:05:13.69
Bill
That's fine. You know what? This whole this whole thing is brought to you by us, fuck knobs, so fucking deal with it.

00:05:17.98
Mike
That's right.

00:05:20.22
Bill
All right, so um the book that you went to grab, and you said you were going to keep it simple, I thought that was a play on words, but it really wasn't.

00:05:22.68
Mike
is he Yep. It was not.

00:05:26.42
Bill
It was, but it wasn't. It wasn't to the book, keep it simple. was to something else. And then I was like, ah, I think I know i think i know what you're going to do, but...

00:05:30.33
Mike
Yes.

00:05:32.97
Mike
uh-huh

00:05:35.86
Bill
I don't want to try to try to jump the route to say it, but you have a reading.

00:05:38.77
Mike
yeah right i do i i have a reading wasn't planning on having a reading but again keep it simple right um so uh as i said three days ago was kind of an important date for us um

00:05:53.72
Bill
Right.

00:05:54.33
Mike
Yeah. So ah we will. All right. So this is from the 24 hour a day book. And we've talked about it plenty on here. Bill and I both still read the 24 hour day book every day.

00:06:06.78
Mike
um It's the first one I read every day. ah Yeah.

00:06:10.49
Bill
Me too.

00:06:11.74
Mike
And um because it was the book that we read at the Keating Center when we were forced to read something every morning. You will read this and you will talk about it.

00:06:24.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:25.30
Bill
And you will like it. You will like it, you motherfucker. You'll get you get nothing and you'll like it, Spalding.

00:06:29.78
Mike
you he

00:06:30.33
Bill
Spalding.

00:06:31.93
Mike
Damn right. So, um so we, you know, in the Keating Center, every morning we gathered in the classroom there and we read from the 24-hour day book. And then after we read whatever that day's reading was, we read January 6th.

00:06:52.02
Mike
So since that was this week, and since I wasn't planning on doing a reading, I I thought we'd read January 6th today.

00:07:02.33
Mike
i Yes.

00:07:02.46
Bill
Yes.

00:07:03.29
Mike
So, um ah yes.

00:07:04.82
Bill
Wait, real quick. Can I participate?

00:07:08.22
Mike
yeah absolutely

00:07:10.23
Bill
Okay. Cause I wasn't, I wasn't, I was going mute. i didn't know if you wanted a reading through just to read it through. i didn't know if I could participate.

00:07:14.87
Mike
m

00:07:16.23
Bill
If I can, but I want to be a participant.

00:07:16.38
Mike
No, no.

00:07:17.83
Bill
If I can't.

00:07:18.01
Mike
Right. Well, we sort of have to. That was, again, you will do this. And

00:07:24.28
Bill
Right. Right.

00:07:25.20
Mike
in the Keating Center, when we read this every day, we read January 6th, there was a call and response portion to this.

00:07:35.71
Mike
It was kind of like the Rocky Horror Picture Show. ah At least in my mind, it was I had to do something at that point because, you know, all twitchy and shaky and fucked up in my head.

00:07:42.87
Bill
Right?

00:07:49.58
Mike
And, you know, not the I'm just fucked up in the head. I'm not twitchy and shaky anymore. ah So anyway, from the 24-hour-a-day book, this is January 6th.

00:07:55.21
Bill
you beat me to it.

00:08:03.57
Mike
AA thought for the day. Keeping sober is the most important thing in my life.

00:08:09.94
Bill
Today.

00:08:10.94
Mike
The most important decision I ever made was my decision to give up drinking.

00:08:15.86
Bill
Today.

00:08:17.14
Mike
I am convinced that my whole life depends on not taking that first drink.

00:08:22.07
Bill
Today.

00:08:23.13
Mike
Nothing in the world is as important to me as my own sobriety.

00:08:27.58
Bill
today

00:08:28.63
Mike
Everything I have, my whole life depends on that one thing. Can I ever forget this, even for one minute?

00:08:37.08
Bill
Not today.

00:08:39.03
Mike
Thank you. um I mean, we could do the we didn't do the rest of it, the meditation, but what the hell, let's do it since we got we we got some time to fill.

00:08:40.18
Bill
Yeah, yeah feel free.

00:08:50.65
Mike
ah

00:08:51.90
Bill
Yeah, we've got, where we're eight minutes and 54 seconds in, so we get we got some time. but It's okay.

00:08:55.74
Mike
We do.

00:08:56.26
Bill
Yeah, let's, let's.

00:08:56.50
Mike
All right. So, so the meditation for the day, i will discipline myself. I will do this disciplining now. I will turn out all useless thoughts. I know that the goodness of my life is a necessary foundation for its usefulness.

00:09:14.90
Mike
i will I will welcome this training, for without it God cannot give me his power. I believe that this power is a mighty power when it is used the right way.

00:09:27.45
Mike
Prayer for the day. I pray that I may face and accept whatever discipline is necessary. I pray that I may be fit to receive God's power in my life.

00:09:40.54
Bill
So real real quick thing, and I don't, well, we weren't there in January, at least not physically at the the Keating Center doing the reading.

00:09:47.51
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:09:49.22
Bill
So, and I think we probably joked about this before, but on January 6th, do they read it and then do January 6th?

00:09:52.88
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, they do.

00:09:56.82
Bill
So it's a double. Okay, I got you.

00:09:57.69
Mike
It is. Yeah.

00:09:58.42
Bill
And I...

00:09:58.65
Mike
I, it's for some reason, I think at one point I went there on January 6th and did meditation just cause I wanted to, I don't know, maybe two, three years in, I don't remember, but it seems like I went back on a January 6th and did the meditation with the boys.

00:09:59.10
Bill
Right.

00:10:05.56
Bill
ah here Right.

00:10:17.83
Mike
Cause I wanted to, it may have been like a year that it fell out of Saturday or something and I was doing group anyway.

00:10:19.55
Bill
right

00:10:23.23
Mike
So I just went there early.

00:10:25.01
Bill
right

00:10:25.02
Mike
um You know, again, foggy recollection because my memory shot to hell, but I'm pretty sure I did that at one point.

00:10:33.77
Bill
Right. Well, you know, and there was, and I was trying to think too, when you said we, we'd huddled in into that room, I mean, as it got nicer out, we would sit outside too. Sometimes I remember sitting outside and then even after the fact when, cause that was the whole thing, like, ah you know, and Mike just obviously explained it to me.

00:10:41.78
Mike
Right. hmm. Mm

00:10:49.63
Bill
We, we were told when we, when we got there, we had to go to fucking meditation.

00:10:52.18
Mike
hmm.

00:10:52.95
Bill
We had to do this goddamn reading and, Um, you know, from, from that point, I mean, I went into the Keating center figures, I think on the April 22nd, I think was my first one.

00:10:53.10
Mike
Yep.

00:11:05.94
Bill
I went in there on that Friday. So I think April 23rd was the first day i was in meditation. Um, and then you would have been there the following Wednesday, right?

00:11:10.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:13.18
Mike
Yeah, I was a detox.

00:11:14.45
Mike
Yes, I did.

00:11:15.00
Bill
Yeah. But I mean, you would have been, I think you got to the Keating center on Wednesday because your first, then you got yeah thrown into the van and,

00:11:15.95
Mike
It was a 28th.

00:11:19.54
Mike
Yes, I did. Park yes. Mm-hmm.

00:11:22.90
Mike
yes i did

00:11:24.02
Bill
Take it, ah take it fucking West Park.

00:11:26.20
Mike
west park men's yes

00:11:27.35
Bill
Yeah. um But see, the thing of it is that I'm, and I'm extremely proud of this. And I think you're, you're the same, the same, you know, same thing is that, you know, from that day for me, April 23rd, and probably for you, April 28th, I've, I've never missed a day.

00:11:40.28
Mike
Right. Ninth. Yeah. cause like i Yeah.

00:11:43.16
Bill
What? Oh, yeah.

00:11:44.32
Mike
Right. Because, yeah, I got there the 28th, but it was wasn't early enough to. ah

00:11:48.57
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:11:49.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:11:49.49
Bill
So you would have been your first morning would have been 29th where mine was the 23rd.

00:11:51.84
Mike
Yep.

00:11:52.60
Bill
OK, but so from from those days, um neither one of us have missed reading the 24 hour book.

00:11:53.06
Mike
Yep. Yes.

00:11:58.65
Bill
And I'm proud of that, you know, and, you know, the we went through but we talked about it before.

00:11:59.02
Mike
Right. Mm

00:12:03.59
Bill
I had one one guy in particular. I think at least there might have been two that I can think of that, you know, these guys would get up and they were working and whatever.

00:12:06.56
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

00:12:11.28
Bill
And like, you know, whatever. I'd get together with them. I was sponsoring them.

00:12:14.84
Mike
Right.

00:12:14.99
Bill
And, you know, so how how'd your week go or whatever's going on? And we talk about that and like, oh yeah, no, I didn't get a chance to do the readings this week. I'm like, how could you not, how could you not, you know?

00:12:24.03
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:12:25.28
Bill
i mean, literally, how could you not? Because everyone, everyone who's listening to us and listens to us every single fucking week, the, we do at least one reading, which takes, what does it take a minute, you know, to actually do the reading, um,

00:12:36.89
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The actual reading part. Right.

00:12:41.21
Bill
Yeah, I mean, yeah, granted, we sp spread it out, we talk about it for the next 20 fucking minutes.

00:12:44.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:12:45.79
Bill
But you don't have to do that every morning. And and literally, by the time that I sit down to do my reading in the morning, and I read four books, Mike does three, you know but again, fourth book takes me another minute maybe.

00:12:51.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:54.69
Mike
Yup.

00:12:57.66
Bill
you know So from the time that I do that and I go through everything that I go through, you know it's not more than 15 minutes.

00:12:57.77
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:04.74
Bill
you know And that's 20 minutes when I do my prayers in there too.

00:13:04.95
Mike
Right.

00:13:08.30
Bill
You know, so um I get up earlier to make sure that I do that.

00:13:08.31
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:13:12.60
Bill
But even if it's just i remember this one guy, I'm just read the one fucking book, at least a 24 hour book every day.

00:13:17.66
Mike
Right.

00:13:18.44
Bill
And he couldn't do that.

00:13:18.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:19.37
Bill
And I'm like, i you know, what are you willing to do type of thing?

00:13:19.72
Mike
Right.

00:13:21.77
Bill
You know, it just I don't know.

00:13:21.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:23.90
Bill
she issue It was really, really fucking frustrating because it just the. um i don't know it was these these simple things and once again going back to to what you said to begin with you know we were we were told you're gonna sit in this fucking room you're gonna read this fucking reading you're gonna do this every goddamn day and i know for a fact that i had no desire because i had no desire for much of anything i didn't have any desire to read the fucking reading then on top of it go there today today but today no today boo And I'm sure that I made fun of it, you know, in my, in my mind, never out loud, you know, but, um, but these, these things that we were taught and, and I don't care what, um, who, again, whoever listening here, whatever, whatever brand of recovery, uh, you got started in and you're in at the moment you had, you had to have had, and I guarantee you had some sort of structure in your life, you know, they had to have.

00:13:32.02
Mike
Mm.

00:13:39.23
Mike
Mm. Yup. Yup.

00:13:45.05
Mike
Mm. Right.

00:13:49.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:56.47
Mike
but Right. Sure. Of course. Right.

00:14:12.26
Mike
Right.

00:14:17.27
Mike
Well, yeah, I mean, the the the second part of the reading sort of addresses that, you know, discipline. We have to discipline ourselves because, the fuck, I mean, it was a big part of our problem was being so goddamn undisciplined, you know.

00:14:32.89
Mike
But, i mean, on the flip side of that, we're pretty fucking disciplined about getting that bottle or bag, you know, yeah you know at all costs, right?

00:14:38.62
Bill
Right.

00:14:41.81
Mike
well Figuratively and literally at all fucking costs, we got that shit. Um, so yeah, you know, this is, uh, we do, we have to take that, that discipline that we've always had. We just applied it in the wrong way and, you know, apply it to this. And that's, it's part of it. You know, I mean, we've talked about it on here.

00:15:03.10
Mike
Clearly the 24 hour book is not our favorite book. You know, um, it's, it's very religious.

00:15:05.96
Bill
Right.

00:15:07.95
Mike
It was written by a Catholic guy and there's a lot of that in there. um, very religious and you know that's not my speed at all and and you know and certainly not yours either um to a lesser extent uh yeah so you know but again discipline right you know this was the book that our foundation was built on i'm not going to remove that brick because i don't want that goddamn jenga tower to fucking fall down

00:15:21.21
Bill
Right.

00:15:24.58
Bill
Right.

00:15:40.28
Bill
Yeah, no, I agree with you, you know, in the, it it is, it's, um, I, I don't mind reading that book. I don't mind reading any of them, but you're, that's a great way to put it.

00:15:48.88
Mike
Mm.

00:15:50.02
Bill
It's certainly not my, not my favorite one, you know, but, um, as I go through, you know, the readings and stuff like that, you know, I never said there, there's never been a day, um, excuse me, that I sat down to do my readings and like, ah, motherfucker, I gotta do these goddamn readings, you know?

00:15:51.64
Mike
No.

00:16:03.58
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:16:04.99
Bill
And I remember the one time that I was in, i was working for the company in Madison. I was in in a hotel because I was in Beloit doing training.

00:16:12.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:13.72
Bill
And somehow, some way, my my phone caught a different cell tower and was literally three hours behind.

00:16:13.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:20.60
Mike
yeah

00:16:20.86
Bill
my My phone time changed. i don't know if you remember this, but I got up. I would usually leave it. Let's say if I left it, you know, left a hotel at like 630 in the morning, so I would get there at seven, usually an hour before to get myself prepared.

00:16:32.90
Bill
You know, and I woke up at, I don't know, like quarter after six, you know? So usually, i mean, that's when I woke up. It's like, you know, I'm in a fucking hotel room. I never see the the light coming through the curtains in the wintertime at that time of year.

00:16:44.02
Bill
You know, and I just kind of kind of roll over and look.

00:16:44.06
Mike
Sure.

00:16:46.02
Bill
I'm like, oh, isn't it nice? Lights coming through like, what the fuck?

00:16:48.89
Mike
a

00:16:49.66
Bill
and And I had another, thankfully, well, I got there in time. I got there, you know, obviously before all said and done. I think I got there all within like 45 minutes. and And I did. i i took a shower.

00:17:01.39
Bill
i did everything. I was like ah this jittery mess from different reasons, just being all fucking panicked.

00:17:07.54
Mike
Right.

00:17:07.67
Bill
um But I did my readings, you know.

00:17:09.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:09.54
Bill
I did them quickly, but I did them.

00:17:10.81
Mike
okay

00:17:11.22
Bill
I didn't do them as thoroughly. And I think I went back that night and reread things, you know.

00:17:13.05
Mike
Sure. yeah Yeah.

00:17:15.14
Bill
But I did it. I'm like, I can't not do this, you know.

00:17:17.43
Mike
Right.

00:17:17.62
Bill
And I think I did my prayers on the way driving to the office, you know, which I normally wouldn't do.

00:17:20.85
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:17:22.66
Bill
um But I don't know. It's just, it's, I couldn't, like you said, that's a great way to put it. I mean, not removing that brick. We've talked about it before. I don't know. And I, and I know that you don't know, both of us been really honest, all these, all these things that we do, all of them, which are not that much, but I mean, they're it's, it's a number of things, but to us, it's not like, Oh, all these things we do.

00:17:43.00
Bill
I don't mean it.

00:17:43.11
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:17:43.96
Bill
I don't mean it that way. But this this list of things that we do or these variety of things that we do, neither one of us knows or wants to find out which one of those things is holding all the shit together.

00:17:55.29
Mike
Right.

00:17:56.02
Bill
Because maybe it's only maybe it's all of them.

00:17:58.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:58.97
Bill
Maybe it's just one thing. maybe Maybe there's a few things that are in there. It's like, yeah, these things don't fucking matter, but I don't know which things those are.

00:18:06.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:07.19
Bill
And I'm not going to fucking test it.

00:18:08.66
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Right. You know, right. If I don't make my bed one day, is am I going to go fucking stop and get a handful of vodka on the way home? Probably not.

00:18:19.78
Bill
Right.

00:18:20.18
Mike
But ah do I really, you know, do I want to find out? Nah, you know, I'd rather take the, you know, couple of minutes and make my bed.

00:18:32.44
Bill
Right.

00:18:32.79
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:18:33.30
Bill
Well, well you and i you and I even talked about it. Like when you said, when you're in a hotel and it's it just happened again, when I was up in Sheboygan, it was it's a two-bedroom place.

00:18:36.92
Mike
o Right.

00:18:41.82
Bill
But of course, I only use one bed.

00:18:44.31
Mike
Right.

00:18:44.58
Bill
I don't need to sleep in two beds these days.

00:18:46.33
Mike
yeah

00:18:46.98
Bill
you know say Who knows? If get bored, go into the other bed.

00:18:50.58
Mike
Sure.

00:18:50.63
Bill
But but they said, you know any whichever bed is used or or if you use a bed, then you know obviously don't don't make it up. So, you know, what I did, though, is I made the bed because we have to.

00:18:59.58
Mike
Right.

00:19:02.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:19:04.64
Bill
And then I I unmade it, but I just pulled pulled everything down, kind of fold everything up, but kind of in an angle.

00:19:04.65
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:19:10.68
Bill
So you can see this is the bed that I slept in.

00:19:12.82
Mike
he

00:19:12.84
Bill
i then I just threw the pillows on there because I don't use the the pillows from any place I'm in.

00:19:17.08
Mike
Right.

00:19:17.10
Bill
I bring my own.

00:19:17.89
Mike
Yeah.

00:19:18.23
Bill
I'm like, ah, fuck, I got to straighten out those goddamn pillows.

00:19:20.25
Mike
he

00:19:20.75
Bill
So had to straighten out the pillows. It was clear which bedroom I used, you know, um but I've had to unmake a bed before these, like take the sheets out.

00:19:23.80
Mike
Right.

00:19:26.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:27.11
Bill
So I take all the goddamn sheets and then I nicely put the comforter or whatever, whatever, you know, top cover thing is on there and fold that nice.

00:19:28.44
Mike
Right.

00:19:33.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:33.83
Bill
And, you know, and so it looks nice.

00:19:34.51
Mike
Yeah.

00:19:35.64
Bill
I mean, I just, I can't not do that.

00:19:38.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:19:39.00
Bill
You know?

00:19:39.67
Mike
Right. Exactly.

00:19:43.67
Bill
But I don't know. Like like when I left up i went to Arkansas that that one time at you know fucking one o'clock in the morning and I just, I went to sleep for you know two and a half hours before then.

00:19:53.86
Bill
And we had talked about it on here because I'm like, ah, what I was going to do was, you know, I was just going to go and then, you know, at whatever, like six o'clock in the morning, pull over someplace do my readings.

00:20:00.18
Mike
Right.

00:20:03.82
Bill
Then I'm like, I can't do that. i'm um

00:20:05.53
Mike
Right.

00:20:05.67
Bill
I'm up.

00:20:06.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:06.71
Bill
i I mean, yeah, it's, it's, it's,

00:20:07.82
Mike
I'm starting my day. Doesn't matter what fucking time it is. Mm-hmm.

00:20:11.70
Bill
But it's it's one o'clock in the morning, you know, and i I left at three in the morning. um But I'm like, I have, yeah, like you said, I'm starting my day.

00:20:16.35
Mike
Yep. Yep.

00:20:20.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. This is how I'm starting my day.

00:20:21.64
Bill
I...

00:20:22.52
Mike
It doesn't matter. Right.

00:20:24.06
Bill
yeah

00:20:24.83
Mike
Yeah. You know, I mean, I mean, when I had that goddamn bar none job, you know, where they're fucking dicking me around and, you know, I, dare God, yeah.

00:20:25.27
Bill
so

00:20:32.76
Mike
You know, I drive one day at night and then I drive one day during the day and then fucking it was pain in the ass. But yeah, didn't matter. You know, um nine o'clock at night, if I'm getting up and starting my day, I'm fucking doing my reading for the day.

00:20:46.20
Bill
Right.

00:20:46.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:46.84
Bill
right Right. Yeah. Well, what I was just thinking about was like a couple, well, no, one a couple, three, three years ago. No, two years ago. I'm coming up in a couple of weeks when I went to Myrtle beach and you know, same deal.

00:20:57.82
Mike
Right.

00:20:58.82
Bill
I mean, I, I left it, I left at night. I never went to sleep. But I, but I did my, while I was driving, I'm like, I'm not going to sleep.

00:21:03.32
Mike
Right.

00:21:06.50
Bill
But I did my, I did my night. I did my 10 step, you know, driving, driving the fucking highway.

00:21:09.37
Mike
hu

00:21:11.54
Bill
It probably, i don't know, one in the morning. And when I was going down there, something have to do that, at least do my 10 step.

00:21:17.11
Mike
right

00:21:17.40
Bill
There's no readings to do. But then when I got to Myrtle Beach, I was sitting in a parking lot. And was like, right after I texted you guys, I did my readings at whatever time it was, you know, it's seven in the morning or eight in the morning and fucking parking lot because I had been up all night.

00:21:28.23
Mike
Right.

00:21:30.99
Bill
But I'm like, well, this is this is the time I guess I got to do my readings.

00:21:33.27
Mike
Right. says

00:21:36.95
Bill
But I don't know. I mean, all of it is just the the things that the things that we were that we were taught. And, you know, I mean, all those things that we... i didn't I didn't like them.

00:21:47.28
Bill
I almost said hated. That's the wrong way to put it. I despised doing all of it. I was pissy about it in general. Just pissy about life. But, I mean, i didn't want to do all these goddamn things, you know. um But, um like you said, I mean, it's ah it's the foundation.

00:22:00.86
Bill
It's the brick.

00:22:01.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:01.62
Bill
it's It's all these different things that... That we were, we were given at that timeframe. And you know what? I mean, can't argue with it now.

00:22:10.17
Mike
No, no.

00:22:10.30
Bill
you Yeah.

00:22:11.12
Mike
Well, again, it's the discipline, you know. ah i'm I'm kind of glad I read the rest of the reading because, yeah, you know, the discipline ah so that we're prepared for the good shit, you know.

00:22:17.09
Bill
So am I. oh

00:22:22.87
Mike
yeah We have to be, you know, again, i don't have that with me because it's in my other book. But, you know, um we can't, I'm going to paraphrase it, but, you know, we can't be, we, ah, ha, ha, ha.

00:22:34.97
Mike
Um, we have to be prepared for the things that we want. You know, we can't expect things that we're not prepared for.

00:22:42.04
Bill
Right.

00:22:42.04
Mike
and and how do we prepare for those things? We discipline ourselves, you know, um, again, all this bullshit that, you know, at, like you said, at the time at the Keating center, we're like, why the fuck are we doing this? You know, but I mean, i I use a sink in my house. I wipe it down before I walk away from it. You know, even if I don't splash water everywhere, if there's like one or two drops up on the counter or something, they get wiped off.

00:23:09.46
Mike
I just, I can't walk away from a sink without wiping it down after I've used it because that's what we did at the fucking Keating Center. Wipe the fucking sink down when you're done. of You know, which we had to do there because, you know, we're a bunch of goddamn animals and throwing water everywhere.

00:23:19.35
Bill
Right.

00:23:23.95
Bill
Right.

00:23:25.23
Mike
Yeah. You know, but 50 guys and, you know, what, seven, eight sinks, something like that in the whole building.

00:23:32.31
Bill
ah

00:23:33.67
Mike
um Yeah.

00:23:34.04
Bill
right

00:23:36.41
Mike
But again, you know, right. I mean, in my bathroom, I have a special towel hanging by the sink that I use to wipe it down. don't know, disciplining myself so that I am prepared for things that I i i don't know if I deserve them, but I'm fucking prepared for them.

00:23:56.18
Mike
um Yeah.

00:23:56.38
Bill
Right. Yeah. the The things, the things that so freely come your way, you know, and the the good, the good things that that freely come your way.

00:23:59.93
Mike
Yep, exactly. Great. Yeah.

00:24:04.09
Bill
And it is, it's a, you know, whether you want to look at it as, you know, deserving. I know we don't like to necessarily use that word. So just the the work that you did, I mean, those, you, you get the, the positive byproducts of all that hard work, you know, the hard work.

00:24:10.40
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:15.94
Mike
Yep.

00:24:17.42
Bill
And then what becomes to be the the normal everyday work that we do, which is, I don't consider it, You know, hard. I don't even consider it work anymore.

00:24:23.90
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:25.06
Bill
It's just, you know, it's, it's just part of, um, but yeah, it's just kind of funny.

00:24:25.21
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:24:29.10
Bill
Like when, when I started doing this, all this traveling and stuff like this, and, um, I've gotten, you know, open comments that, that when I get the re, know, cause I, I've reviewed the Airbnb and they review me.

00:24:39.18
Bill
Um, which again, I'm very proud to say that I'm, I've never received ah a bad review. I've never given one either.

00:24:44.82
Mike
Right.

00:24:45.59
Bill
So it goes both ways. I will not give somebody a bad review at an Airbnb. Um, I, I feel it's my responsibility.

00:24:49.94
Mike
Right.

00:24:52.11
Bill
I will, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut. I tell them if there's an issue, I tell them what the problem is.

00:24:55.00
Mike
m Sure.

00:24:56.83
Bill
Now, if they came back to me and they said, go fuck yourself.

00:24:59.76
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:25:00.38
Bill
then I, I still wouldn't leave a bad review because you know why?

00:25:01.34
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:03.49
Bill
Cause I don't want one coming back at me. It just, it's going to hurt.

00:25:05.43
Mike
Right.

00:25:05.98
Bill
It's going hurt me. So I would just, would probably still leave it be and be like, well, then know, you go fuck yourself too. It's fine. I would leave, I would leave it be. But, um, you know, some of these places they've, they've openly reviewed me and said how, how clean I left the place and how nice I left it.

00:25:19.19
Mike
see

00:25:19.34
Bill
And I mean, shit, when I was on that trip, the whole Phoenix trip, there was three in a row that I got. that Two of them called me tidy. And then the one person said, it's like this we've been doing this for years.

00:25:27.90
Mike
exactly

00:25:29.67
Bill
This is the cleanest this place has ever been left. And I'm like, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

00:25:33.88
Mike
Right, right. Yeah.

00:25:35.35
Bill
You know?

00:25:35.44
Mike
just Handling your shit, living, you know, right.

00:25:35.74
Bill
Right?

00:25:37.92
Mike
You're living there for a week or two or whatever it is.

00:25:40.44
Bill
Right?

00:25:40.56
Mike
And yeah, what what are you going to do? I mean, it's, yeah, it's where you're, where you're at. Why would you want it to be messy and dirty and right? Yeah. discipline this discipline that it's been built into us over years of you know doing this shit over and over working that goddamn muscle man um right i mean i can't stand i mean you you walk in my house you know what it's like man this is the way it is always you know do i need to run the vacuum tomorrow yeah but you know um if anybody walked in here they wouldn't know that i just know it because i haven't done it a week and You know, there's, I just know the vacuum needs to be run, but it's not like there's crap everywhere.

00:25:50.72
Bill
Right.

00:25:59.70
Bill
right

00:26:05.61
Bill
Right.

00:26:21.69
Bill
Right.

00:26:21.75
Mike
It's just, cause you know, if if I'm walking and there's a, you know, whatever, a piece of lint or, you know, God forbid a Chrome or something, I pick it up, you know, fuck walking by.

00:26:33.59
Bill
Yeah.

00:26:33.85
Mike
I'm not saying, Oh, I'll get to going to vacuum this weekend. So I'll just leave it lay in there. discipline. discipline

00:26:41.69
Bill
Yeah, I was the same way. I mean, when I was at that place and well, any of the places I've lived, you know, since I've been sober on my on my own. And there's there would have never, ever, ever, ever, you know, been a time I would I would wipe I would clean up the bathroom a little bit.

00:26:48.22
Mike
is

00:26:54.54
Bill
Sometimes, you know, that would be the only thing that I would really, really have to clean up. Not that the bathroom was a mess.

00:26:59.86
Mike
Right.

00:26:59.99
Bill
But, you know, I just that would be the typical thing, you know, make sure that, you know, clean the toilet, wipe down the sink, do whatever.

00:27:05.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:05.23
Bill
If I had somebody coming over, which took me five or 10 minutes, maybe like you said, maybe vacuum if if I had people coming over.

00:27:08.22
Mike
Sure.

00:27:11.55
Bill
But at any point, if somebody just stopped by, it would never be like, Jesus Christ, dude, what's going on here?

00:27:14.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:17.66
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:18.40
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:18.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:19.74
Bill
Now, ma one I i got it was even going to say years ago, um I still kept it clean. i was I still kind of i think I was always this way, you know, to an extent.

00:27:28.77
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:29.50
Bill
I mean, I didn't have like, again, I used garbage cans.

00:27:29.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:32.22
Bill
I used recycle bins. I didn't have booze bottles and beer cans laying all over the goddamn place.

00:27:35.10
Mike
Right. Right.

00:27:36.74
Bill
I don't know. i mean, there might have been more of a it's probably more of a slob, you know, years ago than I am now. But,

00:27:42.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:43.13
Bill
um I tell you what, I mean, i I clearly did not have the discipline, like you said. I love that word.

00:27:47.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:48.05
Bill
I'm i'm glad that glad that you pointed that out in the reading.

00:27:48.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:50.88
Bill
mean, I heard it clearly in the reading, but I'm glad that you pointed that out and focused on it.

00:27:52.25
Mike
yeah Right.

00:27:55.37
Bill
But yeah, it's that whole, um and again, you know, it's it bothers me to a certain extent that that whole fucking political January 6th thing is on January 6th.

00:27:55.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:05.06
Bill
But, you know, cause every time and I'm sure what we say it, that people think about that, but don't, you know, think of everyone out there, if you ever think about that again, now you can think about Mike and Bill instead.

00:28:05.09
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:28:08.15
Mike
right easy

00:28:13.79
Bill
You can think about us sitting there and like, what did you say? Twitching and shaking back in, back in April of 2010, while we're reading this book on today, today, today, not today, blah, blah, blah.

00:28:17.69
Mike
is Yes. Yep. Exactly. Yep.

00:28:25.39
Mike
Yes. Yes. Me too.

00:28:27.35
Bill
So you think of, think of, ah you know, your two friends over here building their foundation for a better life rather than that fucking bullshit that happened in the Capitol, whatever, many years ago.

00:28:31.83
Mike
this

00:28:34.97
Mike
exactly

00:28:35.91
Bill
So, but yeah, I'm glad, two things. Glad you kept it simple. I'm glad that's what you chose to do to keep it simple.

00:28:40.66
Mike
yeah

00:28:42.67
Bill
So I'm glad.

00:28:42.90
Mike
s yes me too

00:28:46.80
Bill
It's funny, too, that and actually speaking of Matt from Sober Friends had nothing to do with me reaching out to him, but he he posted the or talked about that. He did a video on Instagram on January 6th and said the same thing.

00:28:57.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:59.86
Bill
He goes, you know, for for me, it's ah one of the most important days. And, you know, this book and, you know, it's our program.

00:29:04.28
Mike
is

00:29:04.90
Bill
And.

00:29:05.37
Mike
Right.

00:29:05.38
Bill
you know he brought He brought it up you know and and did a video on it on Instagram and um so saw a couple other people you know that posted things like that.

00:29:11.99
Mike
Right.

00:29:12.02
Bill
and i posted it on obviously on our page. and you know I've done that every every year that we've been on Instagram and doing this thing. I remember if I ever... went no I wouldn't have posted it on my Facebook page years ago, but But yeah, I mean it's ah it's ah it's an important thing and, you know, something that i'm i'm glad I'm glad we had an opportunity.

00:29:25.53
Mike
Right.

00:29:29.90
Bill
Not that glad that, you know, Jermaine wasn't able to join us, but glad that we were able to to talk about it.

00:29:32.15
Mike
is

00:29:35.92
Bill
So it was good deal.

00:29:36.12
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, you know, I haven't done it in a while, but yeah, for a while there, every day on January 6th on Facebook, I would just post posts today, today, today, today. Yeah.

00:29:46.65
Bill
ha Yeah, ah you caught about, i I remember that because I counted it.

00:29:50.62
Mike
yeah

00:29:51.56
Bill
I i remember counting it going through going, yeah, yeah you you must have counted it out too.

00:29:54.97
Mike
yeah food I did.

00:29:57.36
Bill
You got it right.

00:29:58.71
Mike
Yeah, if I am um that not that fucking disciplined, I didn't have it all memorized. Oh, it's this many today's and and then are not today. Now I had to go through it and fucking count it.

00:30:09.56
Bill
yeah Well, at least if nothing else, we know it's one not today. That that part we know.

00:30:13.66
Mike
Yes. Yeah, that part I got.

00:30:15.64
Bill
that a then a so a certain number of a certain number of today's.

00:30:15.71
Mike
hmm. Yes.

00:30:19.12
Bill
so But yeah, when i when I reached out to Matt, I was listening to their, once again, the Sober Friends podcast, ah our buddy Matt.

00:30:25.69
Mike
Yes.

00:30:26.42
Bill
He was on here some some time ago. but So I listened to them quite a bit. and i I had a couple of weeks that I hadn't caught up on.

00:30:31.52
Mike
Right.

00:30:34.65
Bill
And I think I had mentioned before that they they do it on a semi-regular basis, actually on a fairly regular basis. They have, man will have a topic or Steve will have a topic and they stick to that.

00:30:45.19
Bill
And then if they start to vary or sway from that, one of them will say, you know, i don't want to go too far off topic or don't want to get the weeds on this thing over here or this whatever off topic.

00:30:52.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:53.50
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like, God damn it. We do that all the time, you know? So I,

00:30:57.14
Mike
That's our whole fucking show.

00:30:58.74
Bill
Right, and i's I emailed Matt, and said, by the way, I put in the subject line going off on a tangent because that's what Steve – Steve said that this time. he goes He goes, I don't want to go off on a tangent. And he did. He did just a little bit, and I thought about I'm like, you know what? the The thing that he went off – that Steve went off on a tangent on and what Matt will go off on tangents on was interesting to me.

00:31:18.84
Bill
You know, there are things that are – yes, they're they're not –

00:31:18.99
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:23.55
Bill
necessarily on topic, but clearly something that they thought of.

00:31:24.72
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:31:26.88
Bill
mean, granted, we talk about stupid shit too, like anyone else does.

00:31:28.76
Mike
Right. Right.

00:31:30.11
Bill
But so I just emailed him. I said, just so you know, I said, I listen to you guys all the time. And when you say that, I said, this is my opinion, but I said, you should go maybe it'll add a couple of minutes to your show.

00:31:42.32
Bill
But the topics that you guys start to go off on a tangent like that are interesting And, you know he emailed back and he said, he goes, I appreciate that.

00:31:46.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:31:50.58
Bill
He goes, I think about that every once in a while. He goes, the reason that we don't sometimes, he said, it's my own problem.

00:31:53.08
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:31:56.90
Bill
He goes, it's a, he goes, it's an ADHD thing. He goes, I try to, again, back to discipline. He goes, I try to discipline myself to stay on task. So he says, sometimes I overdo it or that, you know, that concept of what he was saying.

00:32:05.11
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:32:08.15
Mike
Right.

00:32:09.40
Bill
You know, and I said, well, he goes out, you know, it gives me something to think about. But I told him, I said, I think that I can't be the only one that would appreciate the this line of conversation that you're going off into.

00:32:20.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:21.37
Bill
But of course, I said, I'm like, yeah, we that's that's pretty much all all we do ever.

00:32:24.15
Mike
Cool. Right.

00:32:26.87
Bill
But, yeah, it was just interesting. I haven't talked to him in a little while. So it was just it was nice. And he I mean, God, he got he literally got he got back to me within like minutes. I'm like, Jesus Christ. And he's he is he's he's very particular to begin with.

00:32:38.78
Bill
I mean, I picked up on that to begin with when before we had him on. But but yeah, it was I don't know if i told him, like, yeah, go off on a fucking tangent. It's fine.

00:32:46.84
Mike
right

00:32:47.21
Bill
It's good.

00:32:47.70
Mike
he

00:32:47.97
Bill
It's all good. Oh, but the one thing I noticed that I'm trying to I almost forgot about it. I'm trying to watch it. is last week when I listened to our episode, and I don't know if it's, it must've, it must've been worse last week than it normally is.

00:32:53.50
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:59.74
Bill
Cause I, I picked up on it. Me saying the word, um, I know I do it.

00:33:04.25
Mike
Ah.

00:33:05.23
Bill
It's a crutch word. I've done it for years.

00:33:08.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:08.35
Bill
I've, I've pulled myself out of it before, but it was really bad last week. Cause I'm, I, it's like everything I was saying, i'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, dude, stop saying fucking, um,

00:33:15.58
Mike
Right.

00:33:17.98
Mike
right

00:33:18.46
Bill
So everyone that's listening, i apologize because if I picked up on it, every there's got to be other people that picked up on it. um I'm going to work on it.

00:33:24.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:26.08
Bill
I'm trying to. It's I don't like it it for the the type of work that I did over the years. I understand it takes away from the conversation. I get it. So I'm I'm going to try.

00:33:35.80
Mike
Yeah, all right. yeah well Back to the Mike O'Mara show, and back when it was the Don and Mike show on Terrestrial Radio, they actually had a contest. They would do they would have people call up, and and they would have to see who could go the longest without saying, oh'm in a conversation.

00:33:51.77
Mike
yeah it was it was Yeah, it was goddamn hilarious because, I mean, you know, people, you you can't do it.

00:33:53.85
Bill
Yeah.

00:33:58.01
Mike
I mean, yes, it's a verbal crutch, but it's also it gives it gives your brain that beat to think of what you want to say next. And so you go, oh, yeah, all right. And it's just it's part of conversation.

00:34:10.63
Mike
So and I get it.

00:34:11.50
Bill
Right.

00:34:12.03
Mike
You don't want to overdo it and lean on it too much. But it's, you know, don't beat yourself up either because everybody fucking does it.

00:34:21.21
Bill
Yeah, and i and I get that. I and i know it's not it's not like you know some it's not some bad thing that I'm doing, but it's it's bothersome to me. And it's something that, and I told you that whole story years ago when I when i did it, when I was doing going through that training exercise, i took it I took it out of my vocabulary completely because they counted the number that I had this in this fake presentation that we were doing.

00:34:34.04
Mike
Right.

00:34:40.79
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

00:34:42.06
Bill
And it blew my mind. And i sat I remember I was at a hotel.

00:34:43.13
Mike
yeah

00:34:44.78
Bill
We were in Minneapolis because that's where the this main office was. So were up in Minneapolis.

00:34:49.14
Mike
you

00:34:50.40
Bill
And I'm walking, I'm just pacing in my hotel room doing this like 10 minutes presentation that we, that we had to put together. And every time that I would do it and I would say the word, um I might make myself start over.

00:35:03.05
Bill
And I think it took me, it took me a couple hours, two, three hours, you know, doing that probably two, two and a half.

00:35:05.43
Mike
Right.

00:35:07.21
Bill
But I got, I i rid myself of it in the next day, the next day, I didn't say it at all in the presentation and they were, they were impressed.

00:35:09.57
Mike
Sure.

00:35:14.87
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, I can't, I couldn't stand it.

00:35:16.21
Mike
if

00:35:18.37
Bill
You said whatever it was, it was 17 times. I did in like four minutes or whatever it was.

00:35:20.79
Mike
Sure.

00:35:23.03
Bill
that's That's unacceptable to me.

00:35:24.44
Mike
Yes, it is.

00:35:26.68
Bill
So folks, I'm working on it, but no, I just did it again.

00:35:28.73
Mike
Yes, we are a work in progress.

00:35:32.39
Bill
i'm ah I'm a big old fucking work in progress.

00:35:34.86
Mike
Yep.

00:35:35.03
Bill
That's a goddamn truth.

00:35:37.30
Mike
fifty

00:35:38.15
Bill
Or the goddamn truth. Okay, so a couple of different things here.

00:35:39.90
Mike
m

00:35:42.20
Bill
Did you, and I but i was writing down little notes from the or notes from the the TV show Mad Men. Did you ever watch Mad Men?

00:35:48.54
Mike
I did not.

00:35:49.98
Bill
Okay, so I'm just, um I'm going to do this over the next, I don't know, there's like seven seasons, but going down some of these things because it's really fucking funny.

00:35:56.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:57.11
Bill
And I remembered it from, I've watched it before, but it's been years. so I think you and I were still living together when I think the first time that I watched or started watching it. So, I mean, it's been a long fucking time ago.

00:36:07.07
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:36:10.01
Bill
But um Jon Hamm, I like him, you know, is is an actor.

00:36:12.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:13.13
Bill
There's other people in the, I think in the show that people would recognize. Flo from Per...

00:36:17.50
Mike
Christina Hendricks.

00:36:19.62
Bill
Who's that?

00:36:20.66
Mike
The redhead with the big tits.

00:36:22.04
Bill
Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah.

00:36:23.00
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:25.37
Bill
Yeah. And, and she's been in an, she is, and she's been in a number of TV shows and movies I've seen after the fact, but yeah, i mean, yeah, she is.

00:36:26.88
Mike
She's lovely.

00:36:34.29
Bill
She's a, her character is is something else and it's, yeah, she lovely.

00:36:37.46
Mike
Wouldn't know anything about, i've I don't think I've ever seen her in anything. I've just seen pictures of her and every time I do, it makes me happy.

00:36:44.63
Bill
Oh yeah. She, you're, you're right. Lovely is ah is a, is a perfect way to describe her.

00:36:48.31
Mike
is he

00:36:48.51
Bill
She is. She's, she's, she's fucking lovely.

00:36:51.70
Mike
Yes.

00:36:51.99
Bill
And she's a little tease in the whole show too. But, um but anyhow, so Flo from Progressive is one of the, she's one of the switchboard operators, which I didn't know.

00:36:54.70
Mike
Ah.

00:36:58.67
Mike
Right.

00:37:01.96
Bill
I don't know if Flo was a, with Progressive the last time I watched it, but they show the switchboard room and I hear the voice.

00:37:05.97
Mike
Hmm.

00:37:09.07
Bill
I'm like, is that fucking Flo?

00:37:10.55
Mike
yeah

00:37:12.28
Bill
She has like these the the wire rim type of little spike glasses, you know, at the from the 60s, different hair.

00:37:16.43
Mike
ahha right

00:37:18.96
Bill
But I mean, the I'm like, son of a bitch, that's fucking her. So just as a little bit background for everyone, the the show Mad Men, Jon Hamm, again, it's great actor.

00:37:21.78
Mike
in

00:37:27.96
Bill
I like him. The show starts off in the early, nineteen I think in 1960. Yeah, it starts off in 1960. I believe the show runs through... Probably just the, I think, New Year's Day of 1970, if I remember correctly.

00:37:43.80
Bill
But, you know, that's that's towards that.

00:37:43.99
Mike
Right.

00:37:45.24
Bill
But majority of this is in the 60s. And at this point, we're in 1960. So if anyone knows anything about history, women were not treated as equals at that time frame.

00:37:50.07
Mike
Right.

00:37:56.10
Bill
Minorities, especially black people, were not treated as equals.

00:37:57.88
Mike
Right.

00:37:59.91
Bill
As equals, lots of smoking, lots of drinking, all those sort of things.

00:38:01.00
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:38:04.59
Bill
And the, it just, some of these things, like everyone everyone fucking smokes, everyone drinks.

00:38:04.68
Mike
Right.

00:38:09.51
Bill
um Bill Murray's younger brother, what is his name? Joel?

00:38:14.33
Mike
Brian Doyle really?

00:38:14.42
Bill
No. Not Brian Doyle, the other one.

00:38:17.21
Mike
now No. I don't know that I'm aware of him.

00:38:21.17
Bill
you would ah You would know him if you saw him. But anyhow, he's a, and I forgot. As soon as I saw him, oh yeah, I forget. So he's considered the drunk. And he the only reason he's like the drunk, he might have one or two more drinks than anyone else.

00:38:31.37
Bill
And he spilled a drink a couple of times.

00:38:31.79
Mike
right. Uh-huh.

00:38:33.41
Bill
Everyone in there is a fucking alcoholic.

00:38:35.54
Mike
Right.

00:38:36.50
Bill
Or at least has a dependence on alcohol, you know, nothing else.

00:38:38.74
Mike
ahha

00:38:39.62
Bill
And certainly ah a huge dependence on cigarettes.

00:38:39.64
Mike
right

00:38:42.06
Bill
But so that's just kind of funny in and of itself. So the first thing is this this one lady, this is like right in the first or second episode of this. This one individual gets hired and the the the lovely chick is the one that kind of runs all the office women.

00:38:56.42
Bill
And then this person that gets hired, she's the, she's the girl for, for Don Draper, which is John Hamm's character.

00:38:56.74
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:39:03.38
Bill
everyone Everyone's called girls, you know, it just again so like it's it's so fucking condescending.

00:39:04.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:39:09.03
Bill
I just, it kind of makes me cringe a little bit, but always makes me, it makes me laugh uncomfortably.

00:39:11.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:39:13.29
Bill
up Also because just, I don't know, it's, the it's the fucking sixties, but so she sits her down at her desk and takes the cover off the typewriter. Yeah. Typewriter. And she's like, the the again, the the lovely lady says to the new girl, she goes, don't be nervous about the technology.

00:39:28.24
Bill
The men who designed it made it easy enough for women to understand.

00:39:32.36
Mike
Hmm.

00:39:34.04
Bill
And in the new girl, the new girl simply just says, she's like, she's like, oh, I hope so. She goes, I'm, I'm really looking forward to this. And she's got, I just hope I can understand the technology.

00:39:43.22
Mike
he

00:39:44.88
Bill
I'm like, i like it really? And then the the daughter of Don Draper and his his wife, betty Betty, Betsy, I'm sorry, his wife's name is Betsy, I think. The daughter's playing with one of the other kids, and she had ah a whole, literally a whole dry cleaner bag over her head and her body.

00:40:02.34
Bill
Okay?

00:40:02.55
Mike
Nice.

00:40:04.34
Bill
And the mom calls her, the kid's name's Sally. she's like She's like, Sally Draper, get over here. So the kid walks up, and as she's breathing, the plastic is like breathing in and out of her mouth, okay?

00:40:13.53
Mike
ah hu

00:40:14.55
Bill
And she goes, she goes if that plastic bag, or she goes, if the dry cleaner is in that bag before this is on the floor, you're in a lot of trouble, young lady. She's like, go play. And she just walks away literally breathing plastic into her mouth.

00:40:26.97
Mike
nice

00:40:27.19
Bill
I'm like, this is fucking so funny. And then um one of the one of the bosses, Don Draper's boss, he's talking about his kids. And he goes, yeah, he goes, one minute you're sitting in the bar waiting for your child to be born. And he goes, the next minute they're heading off to college.

00:40:44.79
Bill
So, yeah, we guys used to know sit in the bar and wait for the you know somebody to let them know that they now had a baby.

00:40:48.68
Mike
Yeah, sure.

00:40:50.42
Bill
And then that same guy got fucking loaded over at Don's house. And then he's like, oh, go I'm going to hit the road. So he's like, okay. Don's like, drive safe.

00:40:57.72
Mike
right.

00:40:57.78
Bill
So he walks he walk walks out the front door and he's holding the door open. He's like, he's like Roger, no. He goes, that's my car. You hear the door shut. He gets back into the car and he's like, lights, turn on your lights.

00:41:10.23
Bill
And then he's like, take it easy there.

00:41:10.42
Mike
c

00:41:12.49
Bill
Don't run. He's like, okay. Waves about it. He's like, okay, drive safe.

00:41:16.28
Mike
this

00:41:17.58
Bill
Okay. And I'm like, it's the fucking 60s.

00:41:22.04
Mike
Simpler times.

00:41:22.90
Bill
i i tell But here here's the other thing. So when I started watching this, and I know it was when when you and I lived together, but I think also as I was in Madison, because I remember talking to people I worked with, women that I worked with, and you know somehow this show would come up.

00:41:34.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:36.88
Bill
And they're like, i love that show. I'm like, really?

00:41:39.83
Mike
he

00:41:40.61
Bill
I'm like, you like that show. They're like, yeah it's it's wonderful. I'm like, you don't find it at all demeaning. Cause I'm like, it, the, the entire show is demeaning to women and minorities. They're like, they're like, as you know, it's again, like, you know, different time, whatever we get it.

00:41:53.53
Bill
It, the show is put together. Well, don't get me wrong.

00:41:56.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:56.49
Bill
They're not, it's not just, um, I don't know. They're not, they're not doing it to just be dicks. I mean, they're just portraying how, how things were at that timeframe.

00:42:01.90
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:42:04.82
Bill
And I think that once again, the the the women that were telling me that they liked the show, they were seeing it from that from that glass side of things, from that light or in that light.

00:42:13.07
Mike
Right.

00:42:13.66
Bill
And I'm like, okay, hi whatever, fucking whatever toots your goddamn horn because it makes me uncomfortable watching it.

00:42:16.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:20.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:21.54
Bill
But it's but it's a great goddamn show, you know? So I don't know. I'll keep ah i'll keep making notes on on Mad Men because it just it it just cracks me up. Yeah. All right.

00:42:31.28
Mike
All right.

00:42:31.45
Bill
um Something from the 24-hour book. Speaking of that, I think I just wrote this down either today or might have been today or yesterday. the the The part of the reading said, I pray for faith so that nothing will upset me or weaken my determination to stay sober.

00:42:48.02
Bill
Okay?

00:42:48.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:48.46
Bill
So that was the reading part. My question here is... When do you think was the last time that you didn't have the the complete determination or faith that you could stay sober? And i don' I know we've talked about faith and faith over fear and all those sort of things, but but the same thing. It's talking about praying for faith so that nothing will upset upset me or weaken my determination to stay sober. so I don't know. Just maybe think about that. That when was the last time how long ago has it been or when when did you kind of get over that where you're like, like, I'm cool. It's this thing sucks, but, you know, I'm OK today.

00:43:26.99
Mike
not really getting yet. Like when was the last time i thought, go ahead.

00:43:31.22
Bill
Yeah, so so like when when is something when you were on such shaky ground that you did did you could have a an outside thing, a life event or something like that, um shake you to the point where you weren't sure if you could stay sober, where you didn't know if you could stay sober, you didn't know if you had the will or the faith to stay sober.

00:43:37.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:41.53
Mike
Hmm.

00:43:46.17
Mike
Hmm.

00:43:50.44
Mike
Uh,

00:43:51.38
Bill
Because again, they're talking about you know praying for faith so that nothing will upset me or weaken my determination.

00:43:56.57
Mike
right.

00:43:57.30
Bill
So, and I think today you and I have, i don't think either one of us could be weakened, hopefully to the point of saying that, you know, fuck this whole thing, as long as we're doing the work.

00:44:02.42
Mike
Hmm.

00:44:05.99
Bill
So at what point do you think, or how long did it take you to, to get that strength where you felt in a in a, in a decent enough place where your competence is you're going to stay sober as long as you do the work.

00:44:06.14
Mike
Right.

00:44:18.10
Bill
Does that make more sense?

00:44:18.49
Mike
Hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:20.28
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:44:20.54
Mike
um i I mean, a long damn time. It's, you know, um i mean, yeah, because I've kind of talked about it before. I mean, this time around, um i was...

00:44:34.07
Mike
I was fucking done. You know, um, I, I didn't, you know, i I didn't want to live that way anymore.

00:44:35.74
Bill
Right.

00:44:41.58
Mike
Um, I didn't know how I was not going to live that way anymore, but I didn't want, I really truly did not want to fucking live that way anymore.

00:44:44.63
Bill
right

00:44:50.20
Mike
Um, so yeah, you know, um, and you know, I mean, clearly, i don't know. I, early in sobriety, I didn't allow myself to think that way.

00:45:06.17
Mike
um you know, that there could be something that would, you know, drive me back to drink or drugs. Um, you know, I just, I didn't, I didn't allow myself to think that, you know, the, you know, and death of a child or, you know, so you something like, I just wouldn't, wouldn't think about it.

00:45:22.96
Mike
Wouldn't allow it to enter my mind.

00:45:23.39
Bill
Right.

00:45:25.27
Mike
Um, Yeah. So, I mean, and, you know, I guess by the time it really wasn't an issue anymore, um you know, I don't know when I could allow myself to think that way. don't know. every year whatever, you know, have having at least, you know, done my fifth step and, you know, work started working seriously on six and seven. And, um, yeah, you know, around then, so probably around a year when I had actually put a significant amount of work into the steps, um, that, you know, that I could allow myself to go, you know, it doesn't fucking matter what happens. I'm not going back there.

00:46:08.41
Mike
Um, yeah. So, you know, it's been a while. And, and I mean, prior to that, prior to making that decision that I didn't want to live that way anymore, um it wasn't an issue because that's the way I fucking lived and that's the way it was going to be until I dropped dead.

00:46:18.26
Bill
Right.

00:46:25.49
Mike
Uh, so yeah, you know, cause I had had enough of this shit. I'd been around the rooms, you know, enough in the past that, you know, there's that section of the book where it talks about, look, you can either, you know, standing at the crossroads, you're either going to do this fucking thing or you're going to try to blot out your miserable existence the best you can.

00:46:50.30
Mike
And um that's that's where I was for, know, 10 years. yeah I'm just going to try to blot out my miserable existence the best best I can. Um, so yeah, um, that wasn't an issue before that.

00:46:59.38
Bill
Right.

00:47:03.30
Mike
And then, yeah, like I said, you know, once I, once I went, fuck, I can't do this anymore. um I, I didn't allow myself to until I was disciplined and prepared enough to allow my brain to go there to go.

00:47:18.09
Mike
Yeah, it doesn't fucking matter what happens. I'm not going there. yeah. And, you know, again, you know, shit has happened in the last almost 16 years where, you know, yeah, you know, I'll have thoughts, you know, of whether it's something bad happened or something good happened or not a goddamn thing has happened.

00:47:39.49
Mike
And I'm, you know, my brain just goes there because I'm a fucking alcoholic. And, and so you know, thankfully, i've I've worked that muscle enough that, you

00:47:43.45
Bill
Right.

00:47:49.21
Mike
my my instantly I go, all right, asshole, play the tape. Then what?

00:47:54.13
Bill
Right.

00:47:54.61
Mike
Then what? Then what? Then what? And it's never good. And then, hey, by the time I get to about that third or fourth, then what are you going to do?

00:48:04.97
Mike
That thought's gone. Hey, look at that.

00:48:10.10
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? And I and I apologize for not kind of making that thought clear. I guess ah as I was reading it, I didn't really know what I was asking myself or asking, you know, either.

00:48:17.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:18.62
Bill
But um but i'm I'm glad that you that you went into into that much detail because it made me think about this a little bit more.

00:48:18.78
Mike
right right

00:48:23.98
Bill
I didn't have an answer for it to begin with. So I don't think I knew how to and i don't really think I knew how to ask the question because I didn't seriously. Sometimes ill I try not to think about it, but I'll have an inkling in my head about where I could go with it.

00:48:35.58
Bill
You know, about I'll have some sort of some sort of fucking thought, but apparently I had none.

00:48:35.58
Mike
right

00:48:39.48
Mike
hey

00:48:39.82
Bill
um But the couple of things that you said, you know, made things a little bit clearer for me. I think the the year mark at a minimum, nine months to a year for me, at least, because nine months is when, again, I had got my head out of my ass with those couple of things.

00:48:51.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:53.70
Bill
So that's that's number one. But easily, yeah but easily figuring that, you know, neither one of us, we didn't do our fourth and fifth steps, you know, until till after a year.

00:48:57.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:02.78
Bill
So, I mean, that that lines up, that tracks, as the kids say, you know, but here's the other thing that that I thought about is that, like, you know, when you were just talking about that is that either I had a number of things happen, which I have.

00:49:05.72
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:49:16.43
Bill
So of you.

00:49:17.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:17.55
Bill
I've had a number of things happen to me. And as much as those things might've hit me out of the blue or shocked me or like how the fuck or what the fuck, i I always had somebody to talk to.

00:49:28.74
Bill
I always had somebody to work through it with and, you know, able to do that successfully.

00:49:30.71
Mike
Right. Right.

00:49:32.74
Bill
So that's number one. But then the most important thing I think is then is going back to the, the no bad examples is we watch plenty of people that,

00:49:40.15
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:49:42.42
Bill
that had things come up that didn't deal with them and we saw the result you know so um again our buddy seth you know which again he ended up he ended up dying based on a work accident not you know thank god not from this shit but got a flat tire got a case of the buckets and you know went to a hotel and you know fucking drank you know and i mean how many other people just these relatively minor things happen some i'm big don't get me wrong um but even even having everyone else around them they still They didn't take the opportunity to to work through it.

00:49:46.42
Mike
Right.

00:49:54.55
Mike
right

00:49:59.45
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:50:06.23
Mike
Right.

00:50:13.42
Bill
So we saw the bad examples. But, yeah, I don't know. it's a it was a tough It was a tough question, I think, to ask because literally I didn't i didn't really have an answer. But I guess the my answer is that even to this day, I don't know what I don't know.

00:50:27.49
Bill
I don't know what um what what's going to fuck me up, you know?

00:50:27.90
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:30.97
Mike
Right.

00:50:31.19
Bill
And but but the thing that is, the thing that I do know, the reason that I have I have full confidence in that I can get through anything is that I know that I've got people, you know, I've got people to to help me.

00:50:40.82
Mike
Right.

00:50:43.79
Bill
And when when I said that, i don't know, it was last week or the week before when I when I was talking to my primary care doctor and she went through my blood work and she's like, no, everything's all good. And, you know, I had this like an emotional sigh of relief.

00:50:55.19
Bill
It was almost like I got this little lump in my throat, you know, because literally it's like I i had built up this. um I was ready. I was ready to to fight whatever the fuck was else was going to happen.

00:51:02.41
Mike
Yeah. Right. Right. Uh-huh.

00:51:06.81
Bill
And I know I said it jokingly, but it was true. but i But I prepared myself for it, and I knew whatever the fuck she was going to tell me, i was ready to, i was fucking ready to go.

00:51:09.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:15.37
Bill
I can i could do this. I'll be fine. I just got to, you know, just need to know everything we've talked about before.

00:51:17.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:20.93
Bill
Just just fucking tell me. Tell me.

00:51:22.65
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:51:24.25
Bill
And then, you know, same thing. when I've got my follow-up appointment on the 19th. You know, I got a couple of questions for the cardiologist about, you know, okay, what what happens going forward? You know, how what does this mean for my my lifespan?

00:51:33.07
Mike
Right.

00:51:35.05
Bill
What does this mean in general? I'm doing all the right things, but...

00:51:38.47
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:39.00
Bill
Um, what, what does this mean? You know, and I know nobody has a goddamn crystal ball, but, um, you know, sooner or later, I i know we got to take a break.

00:51:43.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:51:48.80
Bill
Well, we don't have to, but, uh, I as just said, can I, can I do a take, can I go off on a tangent here for a minute?

00:51:53.53
Mike
Please.

00:51:53.54
Bill
Kind of along those, along those same lines. So here's the other thing that I've been thinking about. Okay. Is that, um you know, like I said before, is as fucked up as it might be, having the going through what I did in that in that hospital for the first procedure and getting everyone's reaction to to me being you know under this circumstance that I was, it was.

00:52:14.52
Bill
Yeah. It was close to seeing how people might react when I die. And it was lovely.

00:52:18.32
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:18.56
Bill
And it was it was comforting in in a really fucked up way.

00:52:18.90
Mike
Yes.

00:52:23.55
Bill
And I still i can't help but laugh at it. But it just it is. it I felt very loved and cared for. you know And i it was it was wonderful.

00:52:29.75
Mike
Right.

00:52:31.70
Bill
But here's the other thing.

00:52:32.02
Mike
Yes.

00:52:33.10
Bill
is that so So five years ago, two years ago, um seven minutes before I was told that where I walked into that emergency room, I didn't want anyone to tell me when I might die.

00:52:44.08
Bill
OK, I didn't want to sit down in front of a Ouija board like kids used to do years ago. I'm like, oh, when am I going to die?

00:52:48.92
Mike
aha

00:52:49.93
Bill
You know, that sort of thing. um I don't want to know. I don't want to go to a psychic. I don't want to know. OK, but there's a there's a strange comfort now that, OK, now I'm i' I've been put on some sort of a clock.

00:53:01.56
Mike
Yes.

00:53:01.69
Bill
You know, that's that's just a fucking fact, you know.

00:53:02.42
Mike
well yeah oh You always were, but yeah, go ahead.

00:53:06.04
Bill
I mean, we all we always we always we always are, everyone is but

00:53:06.70
Mike
I know. it was just It's a little more tangible to you now. i got it. Yeah.

00:53:12.15
Bill
Right now, now there's a, there's a, there's a, there's more of a, there's a, there's a thing now out there. Okay.

00:53:17.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:17.54
Bill
There's a thing that's there and that, you know, it is, um, this, this could, and that's what I want to ask the cardiologist about. I'm not, I'm not stupid. I realized that even though this, you know, this frees up everything and I'm, and I feel fucking wonderful, you know?

00:53:30.65
Mike
Good.

00:53:31.10
Bill
Um, but there's still, there's been, I've got an, I've got a heart issue.

00:53:35.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:36.12
Bill
I mean, I, I know that it's not like, well, that that went away.

00:53:40.22
Mike
Right.

00:53:41.53
Bill
You know, so um because it now now at this point in my life, sooner or later versus maybe what what I was dealing with before, at some point, they had I not dealt with this, I was just going to fucking it drop dead one day.

00:53:52.13
Bill
Just nobody was going to like be like, oh, by the way, you got you know probably prognosis, handful of years, blah, blah, blah.

00:53:52.34
Mike
Right.

00:53:57.70
Bill
Um, but there's a certain comfort to that because there's going to be a point that at some point now, because of this fucking heart of mine is that somebody is going to be able to look at me and be like, you know what, there's going be another heart attack or something's going go weird or whatever the case is.

00:54:09.99
Bill
If I don't drop dead immediately, they're going be able to put like, they're like, well, okay, here's, here's your deal now, you know?

00:54:14.92
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:54:17.78
Bill
And i'm I'm weirdly okay with that. I'm actually, i don't want to say comforted by it, but it's okay to find out that way because now there's a thing behind it.

00:54:22.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:26.40
Bill
I didn't want to have just some random thing. I'm still not, nobody's going to be like, okay, on you know June 22nd of 2000, whatever. I don't want to know that, you know, because then what the fuck am I going to do up until that point?

00:54:35.93
Mike
Right.

00:54:38.76
Bill
I watched my dad from age 62 to age 63 because, you know, obviously his dad and his grandpa died at 63.

00:54:47.03
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:54:47.44
Bill
He's giving away shit. He's being more nice to everyone. And I'm like, this fucking dude thinks he's going to die at 63, you know?

00:54:50.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:54.12
Bill
And then when it didn't happen, he let his guard off and then, you know, he fucking died three years later.

00:54:54.41
Mike
Right.

00:54:58.28
Bill
But, um, But, you know, i don't want I don't want that, you know, because he was you could tell he was he was overly, whatever.

00:55:02.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:05.54
Bill
He was consumed with with his his own, you know, demise.

00:55:07.19
Mike
Right.

00:55:09.47
Bill
And that's the way to fucking live, you know.

00:55:09.82
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, right. Well, I mean, we've all got, I happen to have a life issue.

00:55:13.53
Bill
But.

00:55:17.85
Mike
At some point it's going to, it's going to stop. Hey, it happens to everybody, everything, everybody dies, you know, and it's, yeah.

00:55:21.66
Bill
Right. Right.

00:55:27.09
Mike
So right now, again, it it comes back to living in the moment right now, right here. I'm sitting here talking with my friend and and that's all that fucking matters.

00:55:37.05
Bill
Right. Yeah. and And that's the thing. I mean, I never um because we unite. You and I you and ive talked about it plenty. I mean, I wasn't the the fact that my my entire my entire life, even though what we talked about, whatever, whatever the definition of perfect is, neither one of us, you know, try to try to portray anything of perfection in any way, share your form with anything.

00:55:56.60
Bill
Right.

00:55:56.95
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

00:55:58.68
Bill
I like that.

00:56:00.41
Mike
yeah

00:56:00.44
Bill
this Yeah. to Clearly, clearly we don't.

00:56:02.84
Mike
yes

00:56:03.48
Bill
But, um but what we do talk about is the fact that um all of our, all of our shits handled, you know, and like when mom died, we talked about that, that, you know, there was nothing left unsaid, you know, like it, like it was when, when my dad died, I had shit with him.

00:56:13.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:56:18.13
Bill
I don't have anything with, with anyone anymore.

00:56:18.36
Mike
Right.

00:56:21.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:21.09
Bill
um I don't have issues with people. All my, I mean, yeah, there's things I want to do. There's whatever, all that, all that is fucking meaningless. Yeah. But the the relationships and and anything that would need to be said or would people would need to know from me or about me or whatever the case is, it's all cool, you know.

00:56:38.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:38.65
Bill
So like you said, whenever whenever it happens, it happens. That's why i say I mean, i I didn't know if that was the right way that me saying that I have a clock on me, but it just it's there's a thing. Everyone's got a clock. and You know, to your point, you're you're 100 percent correct.

00:56:48.21
Mike
Yep.

00:56:50.57
Bill
But I mean, now there's just, there's, there's more of a, of an identifiable thing with me.

00:56:50.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:54.54
Bill
Now I, I know everything else is cool, but it's like my, my engine's got a problem.

00:56:54.71
Mike
Right.

00:57:00.49
Bill
Electrical system, I think is okay. Still, you know, my ah brain's operating. Okay. It's just, you know, the engines, the engines got a little bit of a little bit of a knock in it.

00:57:09.75
Mike
Right.

00:57:11.10
Bill
So it is what it is. But all right.

00:57:13.46
Mike
it is.

00:57:15.24
Bill
So I got I actually got one more. Well, we'll do obviously after the ba break. But as as you were talking about that, I forget what made me think about it. But i had another thing written down. But it was kind of cool. Like we can we can segue into it after the break.

00:57:28.37
Bill
But I think we're we're way past whatever break time we normally take.

00:57:28.75
Mike
All right. Yes. We are.

00:57:32.41
Bill
Right.

00:57:32.68
Mike
who We are. What the fuck, man? We want to hear that stupid commercial. So, hey, kids, guess what?

00:57:37.14
Bill
hey

00:57:38.40
Mike
We'll be right back after you hear those stupid commercials.

00:57:49.14
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back.

00:57:52.22
Mike
he

00:57:52.31
Bill
And I hope you did enjoy all of our stupid commercials.

00:57:54.04
Mike
Yes.

00:57:55.91
Bill
But yeah, I'm still getting the American Express ones, which are which are kind of funny.

00:57:56.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:59.23
Mike
Aha.

00:57:59.71
Bill
But I'm getting travel ones now for Expedia, and I'll get Mint Mobile every once in a while. Once it makes a little bit more sense. But um all right. So the this this came up with, I i don't know if even know how I came across ah Bill Burr.

00:58:13.74
Bill
I like Bill Burr, the comedian. If anyone doesn't know who he is, look him up. He's fucking hilarious. But he has been on on Joe Rogan a number of times. I listened back. ah i don't know. I found one from shit.

00:58:25.18
Bill
This is back in the pandemic times. Not that that matters, but it was a handful of years ago. i mean, Bill Burr is Bill Burr. I've loved him for a number of years, so it doesn't matter to me. I just I like listening to him. So he didn't say who this individual was, but this is all about, you know, kind of talking about, but and I think it was when you said that, you know, in enjoying your time and not wasting time and, you know, sitting here and this is good enough and all that stuff.

00:58:48.06
Bill
And it also not happened.

00:58:48.49
Mike
right.

00:58:49.74
Bill
We always talk about not having regrets and blah, blah, blah going forward. So this one I had written down either way, but it said he heard a story and this was a famous actor.

00:58:52.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:58.01
Bill
He didn't say male, female or who it was.

00:59:01.04
Mike
Right.

00:59:01.21
Bill
Didn't name the person. But the apparently the the person worked their entire life, had a lot of success, made money, all these different things. you know Again, on the surface seemed to kind of like to have it all, whatever it is.

00:59:13.01
Bill
Whether he he or she was an actor or not is irrelevant, but you know had a successful life. But apparently on the person's deathbed, this person said so much wasted time and like said that like ah again on their deathbed that they that they had wasted so much time in their life.

00:59:28.15
Mike
right

00:59:30.61
Bill
And I wrote this down because I put parentheses and I'm like, hmm. I don't even know what my question is. You know, I don't even know what I really don't.

00:59:37.08
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:59:38.52
Bill
But when I heard that, I'm like, that's fucking that's that's sad.

00:59:41.78
Mike
yes

00:59:41.84
Bill
And, you know, to be on your deathbed in, you know, whatever, whatever this measure of of success, whatever it is to go all that time and then literally live your entire life, have the means to do whatever.

00:59:52.96
Bill
And then on your deathbed, be like, oh, so much wasted time. I don't know. Do you have any? I mean, again, I don't know what but to ask. You have any thoughts on that?

01:00:01.05
Mike
um I just, I mean, it just brought me back to, you know, um yeah, you know, I mean, i I say it all the time, you know, look, I wasted decades of my life, which I did, um you know, getting getting loaded. ah but if we've said it on here all the time.

01:00:20.59
Mike
We say it on here, you know, but it wasn't totally wasted because we take that and we take it and we can help another person with that wasted fucking life. So it's no longer wasted time.

01:00:31.96
Mike
Um,

01:00:32.54
Bill
right

01:00:33.05
Mike
You know, yeah, ah you know, clearly if you, if you look at, you know, um my mid twenties to my early forties, that was a big fucking time suck. You know, all I, you know, all I did was get loaded.

01:00:47.38
Mike
You know, I didn't, I didn't do anything except, know, gather experiences so I can help somebody else who wasted a whole fucking bunch of time, just like I did, um and show them that, you know, and it's so it's okay because you could go help somebody else with your big time suck, waste of time, pain in the ass existence that you had.

01:01:08.51
Bill
you

01:01:12.18
Mike
ah So, yes, I understand it and and, you know, Do I regret it on a selfish personal level? Yes, of course, because, you know, I'd be in a much different place. But fuck, you know, that's what ifs and and blah, blah, blah. And it's not reality. And the reality is, you know, i i can use that to help somebody else. And where I'm at right now isn't too fucking bad. So let's focus on that.

01:01:43.98
Mike
Let's not focus on how it could be if I would have you know gotten sober when I was 25 or you know um wasn't born an alcoholic.

01:01:44.14
Bill
Right.

01:01:53.26
Mike
you know

01:01:54.07
Bill
Right.

01:01:55.13
Mike
Had a had a really good taste for heroin. I love that shit. ah What if that wasn't part of my makeup? Well, then I wouldn't be who I am. And so what the fuck? If some butts were candies and nuts. Oh, what a party we'd have.

01:02:14.33
Mike
Who in the hell wants a party with candy and nuts?

01:02:14.55
Bill
Well, and,

01:02:17.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:02:18.33
Bill
and, and, you know, and that's, that's the thing. And what, um, i what I, what I was sort of thinking about, well, let me step back to, to your point. I agree with that. We've talked about that so much is that, yeah, first of all, um, the term time suck is one of my favorites.

01:02:29.00
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:02:33.25
Bill
So thank you for using that, not only using it, but a number of times.

01:02:33.46
Mike
sure

01:02:36.29
Bill
I love that. I love that term time suck. I just love it.

01:02:39.20
Mike
aha

01:02:40.14
Bill
It's so descriptive and it's it should be used more by everyone to describe so many of the things, if nothing else, especially on on the work level, you know in work life.

01:02:41.50
Mike
Yeah. yeah

01:02:49.46
Mike
Yes. Work level, you know, ah social media, television.

01:02:54.01
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:02:55.07
Mike
Yeah, whatever. Right.

01:02:56.54
Bill
Yeah.

01:02:56.97
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:02:57.18
Bill
Yeah. All, all of it.

01:02:58.78
Mike
All of it.

01:02:59.32
Bill
But so to, to go back to, to what you said.

01:03:01.48
Mike
Podcasts. No, not podcasts.

01:03:02.71
Bill
yeah

01:03:03.20
Mike
Podcasts are wonderful.

01:03:04.18
Bill
Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, we have, we have 90, we have, we're sucking, a sucking time, of you know, for 90 minutes a week.

01:03:10.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:10.86
Bill
So yeah. Hey, thank you. Thanks. Thanks for listening. Appreciate it.

01:03:14.38
Mike
yep Thank you for wasting your time with us.

01:03:15.77
Bill
Um,

01:03:19.13
Bill
yeah if you If you're going to choose to have your time sucked, we appreciate being the suckers of your time.

01:03:25.21
Mike
Yes.

01:03:27.10
Bill
Thank Thank you. thank you But back to the the the experience part, we've talked about that plenty. And I don't know that I ever thought about that before you and I started doing this.

01:03:37.89
Bill
That might have been when it was originally brought up. I don't remember, but I know we've talked about it plenty on here. And you know everything that we went through has worth. So granted, that at the time...

01:03:46.50
Mike
Right.

01:03:49.11
Bill
I don't know. i mean, yes, if I look back, I mean, wholeheartedly from, like you said, you know, mid 20s or early 20s until early 40s.

01:03:56.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:56.95
Bill
I mean, yeah, that that huge block of time suck, you know, but at the time that I know that I was that I was wasting my life, I don't think I care, you know.

01:04:00.20
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:04:06.62
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:07.01
Bill
um

01:04:07.35
Mike
Right. Hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:04:08.76
Bill
Maybe I did. Maybe i probably didn't. I probably didn't realize it. But yeah, looking back now, once again, the wisdom hopefully that we have, that's a huge fucking air quote. the The little, little bit of wisdom that we have now, looking back on it, now we can see, granted, a lot of wasted time, but you know the only thing we can do that you know that's logically to to be, i don't know, keep us halfway sane, to be like, oh, the experience.

01:04:17.05
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:31.97
Bill
um But so here's the other thing, though, is that In the last 16 years, okay, almost 16 years, 15 years and next nine months that that it's been or eight months or whatever the case is, even if we take out the first year because that's like training wheels time, we're being better people, but maybe the first year take out.

01:04:44.26
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:04:49.30
Mike
Yep. oh

01:04:52.48
Bill
But by by that second year, we kind of, you know, getting out there doing things. That's when shit started to get real and blah, blah, blah.

01:04:58.16
Mike
Right.

01:04:58.45
Bill
Yeah. You know, so the quality, if we take a look at it, I'm not trying to double up time or anything like that, but I think the, we've accomplished more. Now we accomplish more in a year than we probably accomplished in five years of time suck time.

01:05:12.06
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:05:12.16
Bill
Right.

01:05:12.74
Mike
Easily.

01:05:13.76
Bill
Yeah. Or even let's even go three years. Let's not, let's not be greedy.

01:05:17.36
Mike
hmm.

01:05:18.24
Bill
You know, so, and I'm not trying to put everything into like, you know, dog years and everything like that. Like, oh, we've lived a lifetime of the last whatever, but that it is a difference.

01:05:25.62
Mike
Yes. if

01:05:28.76
Bill
And, and I know for a fact that both of us appreciate the, the, the time that we have and the people that we have in our lives.

01:05:29.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:37.41
Bill
And we don't, to your point, all the fucking time you say, you don't want waste calories.

01:05:37.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:41.69
Bill
You don't have enough, you don't have enough time left.

01:05:42.20
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:05:43.61
Bill
You don't know how much time you have left. Why waste a lot of calories?

01:05:45.37
Mike
Right.

01:05:46.73
Bill
don't want burn all this shit or burn all these calories up. You know, so I think we're we're more aware and I think we're more productive and more efficient with lives.

01:05:49.70
Mike
Yep.

01:05:55.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:55.76
Bill
Yes?

01:05:56.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:56.70
Bill
No?

01:05:56.73
Mike
Yes.

01:05:59.74
Bill
So, so I don't know. I don't even know what that means anymore. But I'll tell you this. I unless unless something goes really fucking wrong between right now at this moment at, you know, let's call it 807 p.m.

01:06:12.56
Bill
real time and whatever whatever day I die, unless something goes really fucking wrong, I'm not going to sit on my deathbed and say I've had a bunch of wasted time.

01:06:13.50
Mike
Yes.

01:06:20.48
Bill
I'm not going to feel that way.

01:06:20.77
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, me neither.

01:06:23.00
Bill
because I mean, i i I don't think that even even taking back it, again, I'm going to use the time suck thing, there our time suck years, you know, the at least 20 years of time suck that we both had, i anymore, I don't consider that to be a waste.

01:06:28.35
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:06:33.14
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:06:36.77
Bill
i would I would not sit on my deathbed today or hopefully any day in the future, whenever it happens, and and think I wasted my life. I don't think I would.

01:06:44.89
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. No. No, me neither.

01:06:49.56
Bill
but Well, good.

01:06:49.80
Mike
Yes.

01:06:51.93
Bill
Okay.

01:06:51.93
Mike
It is good.

01:06:52.31
Bill
We we've solved one of these.

01:06:53.58
Mike
Yes. It's one of the gifts, man. It's one of the gifts, man. You know, yes, all that garbage that we went through, is it's as worth it meaning, and and it wasn't a complete waste of time.

01:07:03.97
Mike
It was a time suck, but it wasn't a waste of time.

01:07:04.79
Bill
Right.

01:07:08.28
Bill
Yeah. And I, I think that that, that might be the case though, is that I don't, I really don't think that I knew even that I was wasting fucking time. I mean, you know, it's, I mean, am i think about that back when you were, I mean, in in our twenties, I mean, you got, you know, you're in your fucking twenties, you don't give a fuck.

01:07:15.18
Mike
Mm, right.

01:07:22.97
Mike
Right. Yeah, you're indestructible.

01:07:24.18
Bill
You know, I mean, it's yeah.

01:07:25.78
Mike
You're never gonna fucking die.

01:07:26.52
Bill
And I mean, you know, well, never going to die. And you get all the fucking time in the world, you get all the fucking time in the world.

01:07:31.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:34.01
Bill
So another another quick side note. This is a very, very quick one. I was watching Landman. That's a Billy Bob Thornton show. And his that his kid in there and this this girl are getting together. And he just, that this kid and the girl, he just asked her to marry him and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, she's giving this whole line to him. And she's very, you know,

01:07:52.34
Bill
serious to him she's like just so you know she goes you know obviously the the forever and blah bla blah blah and she's like forever if you agree to this she goes you you understand forever's a long time and he said he goes no it's not he goes forever we'll be here before we know it we you need to get busy now and i'm like that's fucking awesome

01:08:09.49
Mike
Right.

01:08:10.01
Bill
these I mean, whoever whoever put it in this line was not 20-some years old like these guys are, these you know these kids in this in this show. But, I mean, that was somebody with that with a little bit of time under their belt. And somebody had been through some shit. And it's like, no, no, no, forever is not long at all.

01:08:27.25
Mike
Oh.

01:08:27.50
Bill
It's fucking here now.

01:08:28.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:29.18
Bill
Yeah.

01:08:30.01
Mike
since distance distance distance instance

01:08:31.05
Bill
He's like, yeah, you got to get busy. Got to get busy now. But yeah, so I really don't even think that I knew that that I was wasting my fucking time back then. But Jesus.

01:08:38.96
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:08:40.41
Bill
So yeah, try I'll try not to do that anymore. All right. So let's see if one of these other things that I that i wrote down. i had a few I had a few things written down, but I i didn't it wasn't really going out of my way to look for stuff because same deal.

01:08:55.98
Bill
I really didn't i didn't think I'd need to do anything much of picking this shit for like, you know, fucking three weeks or anything like that.

01:08:58.71
Mike
yeah right

01:09:03.90
Bill
um All right. So this is from a podcast. And what was the one thing that you did? there They were talking about, you know, kind of happiness and early sobriety and things that brought brought some sort of joy, happiness, escape, blah, blah, blah.

01:09:18.90
Bill
I'm sure we've talked about this before, but if we had, you know, or if we have, it's it's been a while. So I thought it'd be, if nothing else, it's a repeat interesting enough to bring up again. So for you and early sobriety, what was one of the the things that you did, like non-recoverably,

01:09:35.26
Bill
But can I step back a minute?

01:09:36.63
Mike
Sure.

01:09:37.35
Bill
Non-recovery related. I tried to put the the words recovery and related all together.

01:09:42.81
Mike
Yes.

01:09:43.61
Bill
So I said, recover, recover, related. You know what i said?

01:09:45.87
Mike
Recoverated.

01:09:47.18
Bill
Recover, related. So non-recovery related, some sort of activity. So within like the the first 30 days, let's say, because they were talking about like really early sobriety. So what did you do that brought you some sort of, I don't know, whether you want to call it joy, happiness, or if nothing else, an escape from, you know, from whatever norm you felt like you were in?

01:09:56.98
Mike
Right.

01:10:03.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:06.46
Mike
Oh, it's easy. Yeah. Music to break things by. Yeah. yeah which you saw firsthand, right? Which I've talked about out here. It's why I go down and do the thing on WJCU every year and blah blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:10:20.00
Mike
But yeah, it was, it was radio.

01:10:20.12
Bill
Right.

01:10:21.68
Mike
Hey, imagine that radio fucking saved my ass once again. um rock and roll radio, man.

01:10:26.78
Bill
Right.

01:10:28.22
Mike
Yeah, it was, uh, it was that first, not the first Friday. I was at the Keating center the second Friday, but after the first full week, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah. was, you know, to Again, back to the twitching and jumping and sweating and all that good stuff.

01:10:41.85
Bill
yeah

01:10:45.27
Mike
ah Shaking. Yes. Don't forget the shaking. um Went and laid my ass on that fucking bunk bed cot and um you know, turned on the radio and, and found, you know, a couple of guys playing wonderful punk rock music and, and, and joking in between. And, and yeah, I just, it was fucking wonderful. And I went, Oh, there's a chance. There's a chance I could be fucking somewhat normal, somewhat happy, somewhat something. i didn't know what, but yeah. So yeah, that absolutely, you know, music to break things by. Thank you, Andy. And, And Adam, and yes, and and it was, you know, saved my ass. I'm sure I would have found something else, but I found exactly what I needed.

01:11:31.09
Bill
Right. You know, and the, the only thing that I can, I can think of, and I narrowing it down to the first 30 days, I have ah one or two other things that are probably outside of that timeframe, but not too far out was the, I just, I went into the Keating center just, you know, for, for everyone, there was a small room.

01:11:47.14
Bill
It was the the chapel and, you know, obviously people go in there and pray.

01:11:48.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:51.45
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:51.70
Bill
Sometimes drunks would go in there and, you know, try to try to even up before they, they could get a bed.

01:11:56.02
Mike
see

01:11:56.85
Bill
Cause there was a couch or something in there. Right. If I remember correctly.

01:11:58.49
Mike
Yeah, right. Oh, yeah yeah. Well, not so much the drunks. It was the junkies. because yeah yeah it was Yeah, right.

01:12:02.97
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:12:04.89
Mike
Yeah, yeah it was because the drunks, will you'll fucking die. ah yeah The junkies, you just wish you were dead.

01:12:09.66
Bill
Right.

01:12:12.42
Bill
Right. that's a good point. Yeah, the drunks they sent would force people to go to detox, but yeah, the junkies.

01:12:17.18
Mike
Yeah. To the hospital. Yes.

01:12:19.35
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

01:12:19.50
Mike
The junkies would go in there. Yes. yeah Detox themselves on the couch in the chapel. Anyway, the chapel.

01:12:24.15
Bill
Right. Yeah, so you know there was a chapel in there, but there was also um a few a couple of bookshelves in there.

01:12:31.35
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:12:31.90
Bill
And then with donated books and that sort of thing.

01:12:32.07
Mike
Right.

01:12:34.38
Bill
So when I was a kid, I used to read a lot.

01:12:34.62
Mike
Right.

01:12:37.38
Bill
I remember going, like, we go camping and stuff like that. I remember in the car reading. And I mean, that's when I, you know, whenever the book, The Outsiders, you know, first came out, I read that.

01:12:45.43
Mike
isn

01:12:46.22
Bill
I read Rumblefish. I read you know few of these other these other books all, you know, at that time that were popular with our with our age group.

01:12:47.76
Mike
Right.

01:12:52.54
Bill
Those are like specific ones, but

01:12:52.60
Mike
Right.

01:12:55.19
Bill
So I just, I went in there and I started grabbing books, you know, and they were, ah i don't even know what they were. I read a ton, a lot of books.

01:13:01.72
Mike
Right. yeah

01:13:05.24
Bill
um Every night I would sit down and read and I hadn't read and easily you figure, I mean, I don't know, probably 25 years, 30 years, you know, as far as like reading something like that for, you know, for some sort of pleasure or because reading a book, it is, it's an escape, you know.

01:13:15.06
Mike
right

01:13:17.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:20.28
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:13:20.66
Bill
And, and like now I, I love audio books. I can't, not that I can't read. I would rather not, rather not sit down and read because it makes me tired. I like listening to it while I'm driving, you know?

01:13:28.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:13:31.14
Bill
Um, but so that was one of the things in that, that really, it, it took me out of myself, I think at that point, definitely.

01:13:37.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:39.38
Bill
And probably, you know, that little bit of that by-product, that, that joy, that happiness, and certainly an escape.

01:13:43.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:44.22
Bill
No doubt.

01:13:44.50
Mike
Sure.

01:13:45.26
Bill
But a little bit farther than that out when we started, when we were grabbing bikes and I had Johnny's, Johnny's bike, we used like ride up to the library and stuff like that, that, that library, the the main one that was a little bit farther away.

01:13:52.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:55.06
Mike
Right?

01:13:58.52
Mike
Yeah, the liquid library.

01:13:59.93
Bill
Yeah, but I remember doing that when when the weather was nice and just feeling fucking free.

01:14:00.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:04.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:07.42
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:07.80
Bill
You know, I mean, and again, I had ridden a bike and I don't know. Well, that's not true.

01:14:11.09
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:14:12.08
Bill
I mean, I bought Derek a bike and then I bought one for myself. So we we didn't ride him that much, but I didn't do a lot of bike riding in in years, you know.

01:14:19.11
Mike
uhu

01:14:19.93
Bill
And it was that was a certain amount of freedom. and Even just going down and, you know, working in the yard with with mom, you know, getting out of there every Sunday to go work in the yard.

01:14:25.02
Mike
Right.

01:14:27.61
Bill
But the...

01:14:28.15
Mike
Getting out of there.

01:14:29.50
Bill
yeah, I mean, that's, and that's what it was.

01:14:30.39
Mike
I know.

01:14:31.02
Bill
I just wanted to, I didn't give a fuck and I, I, I never minded doing yard work.

01:14:33.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:35.02
Bill
I never minded that, you know, but, but plus I was being productive.

01:14:35.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:38.43
Bill
I was helping them and blah, blah, blah.

01:14:39.56
Mike
Yep.

01:14:39.99
Bill
It was, it was, you know, sevenfold as far as the, the things behind it.

01:14:40.34
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:43.79
Bill
But I think that the first 30 days though, that, and as soon as I got done reading that, that question, I'm like, yeah, the you and the music, you know, I didn't forget about it, but I mean, that was, that's, that's the, I'd say, I think the easy one and the main one for you, easy enough to pick out.

01:14:57.18
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:14:57.89
Bill
Right.

01:14:57.97
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I mean, you know, I read it and stuff too, but I, you know, I read hell. I read it at the end, you know, the last couple of years when I was drinking so much.

01:15:07.98
Mike
um Yeah. I, I, yeah, yeah.

01:15:09.53
Bill
Oh, really?

01:15:11.38
Mike
Cause again, escape and, and, you know um I was riding buses cause I didn't have a car. So, you know, I'd always have a book with me. Yeah. I always, but again, yeah, I grabbed books at the Keating Center too and read. Absolutely. That was a big one.

01:15:25.99
Mike
Yep.

01:15:27.70
Bill
Yeah. And it just, ah I don't know. And it's just, it is one of those things where, you know, Phyllis is the one that, you know, was telling people, you know, go back and read the fucking big book. Don't do anything recovery related.

01:15:37.27
Mike
Right.

01:15:37.53
Bill
You know, obviously the, you know, read, you know, do, if you want to read, read a book, you know, don't read, don't read the big book, you know, read, read something that actually, actually could bring some entertainment, but.

01:15:42.04
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:15:47.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:48.28
Bill
You know, and I, I don't know what the, at the time, if I was really the same thing, what did I sit down to grab a book and like, and think to myself, I want to escape this.

01:15:57.40
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:15:58.71
Bill
I was just looking for something to do. I didn't know what the fuck to do.

01:16:00.12
Mike
yeah right

01:16:01.14
Bill
You know, I just didn't, I had no idea what to do with myself anymore, you know, because, uh, you know, I, there was no TV to watch, you know i couldn't, I had no place to watch TV. We didn't have TVs down, you know, in our, in our dorms until we got three quarter dorms and stuff like that.

01:16:14.03
Bill
So, yeah.

01:16:14.30
Mike
Right.

01:16:15.13
Bill
You know, i mean, that's ah that's sit sit around and, you know, sit outside and smoke, so you know, a pack of cigarettes with somebody, which I didn't have the money for that shit.

01:16:22.01
Mike
Right.

01:16:23.00
Bill
You know, or, know, fucking read a book, right?

01:16:25.46
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:16:28.34
Bill
Yeah. So, okay. But that, yeah, I mean, you got to, you got to find something. I don't know if it, once again, if anyone's listening to us and you're, and you're new, um you got to replace this shit, you know, just like, well, even now, I mean, and I try to replace, you know, the, one of the things where, but I said, I mean, I'm just getting these, it's not as bad anymore, but I still get these cravings, you know, when I'm wanting to vape.

01:16:33.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:47.81
Bill
And, you know, I just the I've I've designed, you know, taking walks and stuff around the times when I normally vape. I didn't do it specifically with that, but I'm like, well, I'd usually waste five minutes doing this.

01:16:58.60
Bill
We'll go walk someplace, you know, or go fucking walk in the basement.

01:16:59.58
Mike
v

01:17:01.62
Bill
So it's it's kind of been a replacement, not necessarily on purpose to begin with, but I don't know.

01:17:06.87
Mike
Well, yeah.

01:17:06.99
Bill
It is it all of us just replacing it.

01:17:08.85
Mike
Yeah, exactly. and Where'd you learn that? Yeah.

01:17:11.93
Bill
Right. Yeah, I know. I know. it's a And and it's a it's a good thing because I i didn't, the smoking, when i when I stopped smoking, I had the vape as a backup, you know, so I didn't have the the cravings like I did this time.

01:17:22.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:26.60
Bill
It wasn't terrible, but they were there. And even, like I said, even now, it just, I'll get this this thing.

01:17:28.77
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:31.52
Bill
i'm like, oh, I need a vape.

01:17:32.97
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:17:35.02
Bill
I need a fucking, I they need something, you know, and i and I don't, I don't need fucking anything.

01:17:39.23
Mike
Right.

01:17:39.58
Bill
And I haven't, I haven't started eating more candy. I don't stuff my face full of food. The only thing that I did to begin with, I bought, I think I mentioned this on here, I bought these sugar-free Starburst, or no, I'm sorry, sugar-free Jolly Ranchers, because they said that, you know, don't, sugar can sometimes spike up a craving, you know, for any type of cigarette or vape or anything like that.

01:17:44.09
Mike
Right.

01:17:59.86
Bill
So plus on top of that, it's, you know, probably not good filling your body with a bunch of sugar So that's all I did.

01:18:03.49
Mike
Sure.

01:18:04.62
Bill
I mean, I just would do that every once in a while, but I don't even do that much anymore. You know, sometimes it's, i don't know. I know a lot of people that, you know, gain weight or do whatever. And I'm like, I haven't, I haven't replaced anything like that.

01:18:15.62
Bill
So I guess that's ah that's a good thing.

01:18:15.77
Mike
Right. It is.

01:18:19.45
Bill
but All right. So this was from God Grant Me.

01:18:24.40
Mike
Yes.

01:18:24.89
Bill
God Grant Me was talking about how dangerous our minds can be and how the addict or alcoholic in us can ambush our thoughts.

01:18:29.01
Mike
Right, right.

01:18:32.93
Bill
Specifically in the beginning, how did you combat those thoughts and the potential ambush?

01:18:33.02
Mike
yes

01:18:40.13
Bill
So, um I mean, I know we've been told that before about the mind and terrible place, don't quit alone, blah, blah, blah.

01:18:45.40
Mike
right

01:18:46.21
Bill
But do you remember, um i mean, having conscious thoughts about that, you know, trying to combat any of these fucking negative thoughts or anything like that?

01:18:46.23
Mike
right

01:18:52.85
Bill
do you remember that?

01:18:54.55
Mike
I mean, not really, you know, um, no, not really. i mean, that was, you know, that's kind of why, you know, the treatment or whatever the fuck you want to call it, you know, sober living, whatever, um, constantly being around others with this same fucking problem you have, um, is, um, is I, again, you know, um, we've talked about on here, you know, people that got sober during the pandemic and stuff.

01:19:14.63
Bill
Right.

01:19:21.93
Mike
I mean, fuck, you know, I can't imagine sitting in a room by myself and, and trying to get sober.

01:19:30.23
Bill
Right.

01:19:30.36
Mike
It's, you know, that's, I mean, I, I suppose it can be done. um but i why try that? That's way too much fucking work for me. Um, yeah, you know, so you know, constantly again, you know, yeah, the thoughts and, you know, your addict and alcoholic, uh, ambushing you and stuff when you're surrounded by 50 other guys with the same fucking problem. Um, you know, you look over at somebody and you go, huh?

01:19:59.83
Mike
And they go, yeah, I know. And it's fuck, yeah you know, that's, that's helpful.

01:20:01.82
Bill
yeah Right.

01:20:04.79
Mike
That's a, it's a wonderful fucking thing.

01:20:05.05
Bill
right

01:20:07.32
Mike
Yeah. You know, youre're you're not alone, you know? Yeah. I'm going through it too, man. Yeah. All right. Cool. So we'll sit here and we'll go through it. Okay. Right on. And we did.

01:20:17.62
Bill
Yeah, you know, and that's ah that's a great point. I think that we were in, we talked we've talked about that with cravings. And, you know, clearly was something like this.

01:20:24.35
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:26.42
Bill
I don't, when I wrote that down, one of the reasons I did is because I don't remember really having that conscious thought, thinking that I got to keep all, got to, you know, combat to be ready for these fucked up thoughts.

01:20:38.13
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

01:20:39.53
Bill
I don't remember being real concerned about that. now Maybe that's the wrong way to put it. I don't remember focusing on it or or being, you know, ah just being like vigilant or trying to be vigilant about, about that, because I guess that goes back to what we were talking about before.

01:20:45.75
Mike
Right.

01:20:51.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:54.15
Bill
That's, you know, we, same thing where we're seeing the examples, we're seeing that we got great point that you just said. Sometimes you could literally just, you know, you walk outside or you sit in the room, you know, or maybe people are sitting around watching TV or something like that.

01:21:05.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:05.79
Bill
You just fucking sit down and you're just hanging out with guys, you know, you're not doing anything.

01:21:08.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:09.91
Bill
You're not saying anything, but you're in a safe place. And and I think that we, mean, thank We knew we were in a safe place.

01:21:17.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:17.04
Bill
Granted, we didn't have to be there. We could leave, you know, but we knew we were in a safe place and that the same thing.

01:21:18.36
Mike
All right.

01:21:22.89
Bill
Everyone else, you're going through it too.

01:21:24.38
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:25.29
Bill
Yep. No shit. go out I guess we're just going to sit here.

01:21:26.04
Mike
Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:21:28.37
Bill
We're going to go through it.

01:21:30.02
Mike
yep

01:21:31.45
Bill
yeah i mean, that's just it's just fucking funny. So wait, you over there, you're you're going through it too?

01:21:35.93
Mike
ah huh

01:21:38.00
Bill
Oh, okay, cool.

01:21:38.26
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

01:21:39.16
Bill
ha You might have sat here and just kind of go through it with you.

01:21:42.68
Mike
Yeah. We'll just sit here and go through it. Fuck.

01:21:48.82
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

01:21:48.82
Mike
Yeah. because what Because what else are we going to do?

01:21:49.82
Bill
so Right.

01:21:52.47
Mike
Go out there and go through it? hoof No thank you. Right. Yeah. know Again. Yeah. And... we learned pretty early on and it was it was again very apparent very early on that you know yes we're gonna have fucked up thoughts and so what yeah you know our thoughts don't matter our feelings don't matter yeah we learned that very early and that was kind of drilled into us without even that one was kind of drilled into us without even being slammed in this it was just like Yeah, that's what this fucking is.

01:22:11.18
Bill
Right.

01:22:25.06
Mike
You know, I mean, you know, Marty running the place.

01:22:26.21
Bill
Right.

01:22:27.94
Mike
He was fucking having fucked up thoughts, clearly. oh Phyllis sitting there behind her desk, you know, her little eyes looking over her desk, that fucking long cigarette in her hand, of you know, going through it

01:22:32.49
Bill
Right. Right.

01:22:40.15
Mike
You know, yeah.

01:22:41.66
Bill
right

01:22:42.47
Mike
Having fucked up thoughts too. We do it. We can look at her and go, yeah, she's having some real fucked up thoughts. Look at her. You know, again, it wasn't, it wasn't even said it was just, it was there, you know, while you're sitting there having fucked up thoughts, you go look over at the, you know, the guy running the place with five years sober.

01:23:00.72
Mike
Oh my God, that's insane. He's got five years. Look at him. Of course he's having fucked up thoughts. Listen to what he's saying.

01:23:07.83
Bill
Right.

01:23:08.78
Mike
He's having all kinds of fucked up thoughts. But he's five years sober and he's running this place. Cool. yeah

01:23:17.91
Bill
Yeah, literally, when you were just talking, when you were talking about that before you said the five years, that popped into my head that that's, that's fucking amazing that, you know, I mean, he, and to to this, at this point of our sobriety, I will say the word only.

01:23:24.73
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:29.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:31.44
Bill
He only had five fucking years sober when he was, when we got there and when he was running that goddamn place, you know, and that's, that's not a lot of time for that, that level of you know commitment and, and work that, yeah, he was four.

01:23:33.05
Mike
Right. Right. Uh-huh.

01:23:40.54
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:43.19
Mike
Well, shit, we got there. He didn't have five years because he had his anniversary when we were there. Yeah.

01:23:49.21
Bill
Yeah, four years and 11 months, I think, when we when we got there.

01:23:51.03
Mike
Right. Something like that. Yeah. Ten months, something like that. Right. Yeah.

01:23:55.14
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:23:56.30
Mike
Because I can't remember his anniversary. It's like a June or something, isn't it?

01:23:59.95
Bill
It's yeah either end of May or early June.

01:24:02.07
Mike
Yeah, something like that. So, yeah.

01:24:04.06
Bill
Yeah. Right.

01:24:07.03
Mike
And clearly having fucked up thoughts.

01:24:10.10
Bill
Right.

01:24:10.78
Mike
Yep.

01:24:10.87
Bill
get Phyllis.

01:24:11.38
Mike
yeah

01:24:15.25
Bill
That's funny, isn't it? But it is. It's true. we're all We're all fucking going through it. But yeah, God, that is that's fucking mind-numbing.

01:24:18.92
Mike
Yep.

01:24:21.53
Bill
He only had five years. I mean, Phyllis had a lot of time under her belt, but mean she wasn't she wasn't there full-time or anything like he was.

01:24:24.06
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:27.38
Mike
Mm-mm. Right.

01:24:28.60
Bill
That motherfucker was living there, too.

01:24:29.97
Mike
Yeah, I know.

01:24:32.57
Bill
hey you just He's just going just like one of the fucking boys there.

01:24:33.75
Mike
Yes, he was. he.

01:24:37.26
Bill
and it I mean, yeah.

01:24:37.69
Mike
ha he was

01:24:38.82
Bill
just

01:24:39.86
Mike
and still is

01:24:40.22
Bill
Yeah, I know. That's what I said. Just and just one it just one of the boys. That's all the debug was and still is.

01:24:44.50
Mike
yep

01:24:48.12
Bill
ah Well, I don't know. I mean, I think I have... I don't know fine i've done if I got another one here. i think i think we've done some... Again, the funny part was I printed my shit off because I knew...

01:25:00.31
Bill
Actually, you know, I got i got one i got one last thing here because this one, I just...

01:25:03.16
Mike
All right.

01:25:04.75
Bill
Crown Royal. You know you know the drink, right?

01:25:07.03
Mike
Sure. Blended Canadian whiskey.

01:25:08.82
Bill
So... All right, so there's there's commercials that i I'm sure it was during football games because that's the only time I watch and see commercial TV anymore. But um one of the newer commercials, it's this very relaxing scene.

01:25:18.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:23.74
Bill
Looks like it's in the summertime. And at the end of the commercial, there's this person. They show like like from behind the chair. So a person just sitting in the chair, arm over the armrest with a glass of clown.

01:25:35.63
Bill
Yeah.

01:25:36.60
Mike
Clown. Clown Royale.

01:25:40.50
Bill
Makes you make you make you act like a clown. Make you act a fool.

01:25:42.87
Mike
Yeah. Yes.

01:25:45.14
Bill
So with a glass of clown... What the fuck?

01:25:47.70
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:25:48.78
Bill
Glass of ko crown. okay um with a grass of crown royal...

01:25:54.52
Mike
yes

01:25:54.91
Bill
But just arm there and just sitting there. And, you know, for for whatever reason, i'm I'm watching this commercial. It just kept running through these football games I was watching. I haven't had a commercial have an effect on me in a while.

01:26:07.56
Bill
Not that I didn't want to drink, you know, but it's just one of those ones where it was it was really like a comforting commercial.

01:26:09.11
Mike
Sure. Uh-huh. Yeah.

01:26:14.12
Bill
You know how when you're watching shit and you're like, you're like, God damn, you I'm all fucking relaxed, man.

01:26:14.99
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:26:18.60
Bill
i' like who And it's a goddamn Crown Royal commercial, you know.

01:26:18.61
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:26:22.60
Bill
But I'm like, I'm like, I had to write it down because it was just, it it was weird because I haven't had that happen to me in a long time.

01:26:29.53
Mike
e

01:26:30.01
Bill
um But on top of that, did I ever tell you my my story ah behind Crown Royal?

01:26:36.28
Mike
No, I don't think you have.

01:26:36.89
Bill
I did not have, I didn't. Okay. So Kathy's ex, so Kylie's dad, Mark, um that was like his his favorite, but he would only get it on holidays and birthdays.

01:26:41.78
Mike
is it

01:26:45.08
Mike
Okay.

01:26:47.51
Bill
And literally at the time, he would even say sometimes he's like, he goes, I can't have this shit in the house all the time because I like it too much.

01:26:52.12
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

01:26:53.31
Bill
But um a lot of times I would buy him a bottle of it for his his birthday or or Christmas, you know.

01:26:58.71
Mike
Sure. this is

01:27:00.23
Bill
And I mean, that was he it's he used it. And it's, I guess, you know, supposed to be a sipping whiskey, right?

01:27:05.91
Mike
Right.

01:27:06.60
Bill
You know, for most people, a bit little glass and sip and whatever, not not to drink like it may be, you know, like we drink.

01:27:09.24
Mike
Sure. Yeah. Right. Uh-huh.

01:27:13.34
Bill
So one of the years we were, I was, I was down in in Indiana and it had to have been, God, i don't know if it was Christmas. wonder how it doesn't fucking matter.

01:27:24.13
Bill
But I remember that the, the car I had was this older car. Pam and I had just gotten, uh, just split up and I had this old, um, fucking old, so be this big ass fucking old, so be a Delta 88, which I bought it with like 170,000 miles on it.

01:27:37.39
Bill
This car ran like a fucking dream, whole other side note. But the the exhaust system was going on.

01:27:40.71
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:27:44.00
Bill
So while I was down here, I was going to get a fix. They knew a place. I was going take it in. and it had to get this whole piece on catalytic converter, but a place you get it done relatively cheap. So we were going to do that the next day on one of the weekends that I was down.

01:27:56.98
Bill
So we start drinking. you know I'm sure we drinking beer. Then we start drinking Crown Royal. And I don't know if I was mixing it or just slamming it or drinking it quick.

01:28:01.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:03.94
Bill
And I remember Mark saying to me, he's like, he goes, you...

01:28:04.23
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:28:07.51
Bill
you don't drink that that way. I'm like, what are you fucking talking about?

01:28:09.15
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:28:10.51
Bill
He's like, I'm telling you. He goes, you don't want to drink that that way. You don't you just want to sip this. He goes, that's going to fuck you all up. I'm like, ah, whatever. And it did it all. It fucked me all the way up, you know? So I get up the next day and, you know, we've got to go there. So we go to the,

01:28:24.31
Bill
to the muffler place and and i'm um i'm feeling like fucking death and i i mean i don't get these hangovers that often even at at that time or ever where i'm like feel like i'm to throw up you know not at that point in my life college years yes but but i'm like i'm upset stomach i get this and that so we're making it through this and then like like i we're gonna go over go grocery shopping while they're while they're doing this by the time we get done doing that then you know they should be done with the car

01:28:36.28
Mike
Right. Sure.

01:28:49.14
Bill
So we get over to, and it was a, it was a super Kmart. You, you know what a super Kmart was, right?

01:28:52.82
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:28:53.66
Bill
Okay. Which it was, I mean, they used to have this great, it's kind of like, you know, set up for anyone else that doesn't know. It's like a super Walmart, but they had a great produce section, all that stuff.

01:29:00.05
Mike
Right.

01:29:01.94
Bill
It was actually a beautifully set up store. So we go over there and I'm like, I got to go the bathroom. So, I mean, I go in there and i'm fucking throwing up and I'm, ah I'm shitting and I'm fucking just, I'm a mess.

01:29:10.80
Mike
Yeah. Right. Right.

01:29:11.69
Bill
I mean, I'm just a, I'm just, I can't, I can't keep anything down or anything in type of thing, you know?

01:29:16.25
Mike
yeah

01:29:16.38
Bill
And I'm like, I'm in there for fucking ever. And finally come out there. i think Kathy, both Kathy and Mark, they're like, like, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm not fucking okay. They're like, we didn't know where you were.

01:29:27.02
Bill
And I'm like, ah and'm like I've been in the bathroom this whole time. It was like fucking 45 minutes or whatever it is.

01:29:31.03
Mike
right

01:29:31.64
Bill
Just all kinds of fucked up. Never had Crown Royal again in my life.

01:29:34.97
Mike
a

01:29:35.58
Bill
Okay. I mean, in my, at all, ever.

01:29:38.10
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:38.14
Bill
Never even thought about it. But then, now, it's like almost 16 years sober. I look at that and i'm like, I like that commercial, man.

01:29:42.73
Mike
Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah.

01:29:44.86
Bill
It's just... Just all, just all fucking relaxing, you know?

01:29:45.31
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:48.28
Mike
yes

01:29:48.34
Bill
And in my, in my story is in the bathroom something fucking super Kmart, you know, fucking throwing up and almost shitting myself, you know?

01:29:55.86
Mike
yeah

01:29:56.34
Bill
So that's, that's my crowd Royal experience. And I'm getting all like, I'm getting all like eased into this fucking commercial going, yeah, I feel relaxed.

01:29:59.38
Mike
he Yeah. ah Ah. Purple velvet bag. All

01:30:09.56
Bill
yeah exactly Exactly. Yeah. And I'm just, I don't know.

01:30:13.18
Mike
all right. Well, I got three words for you. Keep coming back.

01:30:20.70
Bill
Exactly. Yeah. I guess, ah ladies and gentlemen, if if nothing else, that's a, that's a great example of, ah of the fact that we are not cured yet or ever.

01:30:29.38
Mike
Nope.

01:30:31.66
Bill
So, all right. On, on that, on that note, what do you think, my brother?

01:30:33.72
Mike
yeah

01:30:35.58
Bill
Should we get ourselves out of here?

01:30:36.09
Mike
ah I think we should. Well, all right, everybody. Thank you very much for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. It's always be kind to each other. Be good to each other. go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:30:54.74
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart until the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:31:07.06
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:31:23.45
Mike
Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

01:31:34.08
Bill
You're making love to that microphone.

01:31:35.72
Mike
there. Hi there.

01:31:39.19
Bill
ah too too again did hi there

01:31:44.66
Mike
hi there

01:31:47.58
Mike
<unk>sss

01:31:49.37
Bill
ah It's so fucking creepy.

01:31:51.74
Mike
ah it is Thank you.

01:31:53.18
Bill
It's just so fucking creepy. Do it again. Do it again. Not really.

01:31:59.48
Mike
yeah

01:31:59.72
Bill
You don't have to do it again. But as I said it to begin with, because I'm like, my God, that's just fucking that's just creepy. This is creepy as fuck.

01:32:07.14
Mike
It's high praise indeed.

01:32:09.73
Bill
Oh, I know. That's that's why i like it so much. Come on, say it again, Mike.

01:32:14.67
Mike
It's all you get.

01:32:15.48
Bill
yeah know. All right, man. Well, um I love you, brother.

01:32:22.02
Mike
I'm not going to do it. I love you too.

01:32:24.57
Bill
I thought maybe you would, but...

01:32:26.23
Mike
know That's too fucking creepy.

01:32:27.74
Bill
All all right, well, obviously we'll talk soon.

01:32:32.38
Mike
We shall.

01:32:35.47
Bill
Bye.