SoberNotMature - Episode 213 (Andrew R. - Pirate's Treasure AKA Booty)

00:00:01.85
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And yes, we do have a guest. He had one week where he got to listen to us.

00:00:10.17
Mike
We do.

00:00:12.23
Bill
I don't know. What did we do last week? yeah

00:00:14.14
Mike
I don't know. We yammered for an hour and a half.

00:00:15.71
Bill
He just fucking rambled around doing or whatever. But we have a gentleman that's soon to be our friend. His name is Andrew. He's going to introduce himself in a minute. But um I want to do something a little bit different because I like Andrew. If you don't mind, I'm going to read your email that you sent to us to begin with. If you don't mind.

00:00:31.96
Andrew
For sure.

00:00:32.12
Bill
And the reason I'm going to do this is we get approached by a lot of people. um Not a ton, but enough. um We're not afraid to say no to people, but your email caught my eye. And then obviously you're doing something unique, which we're going to get into.

00:00:44.77
Bill
I share everything with Mike. I end up getting the emails. That's the only reason I said i But I mean, we Mike and I share, go over and make decisions and everything like that.

00:00:49.39
Mike
Right.

00:00:53.41
Bill
But for anyone out there that is even thinking possibly about emailing us and wanting be on, Take note, take a page from Andrew's playbook.

00:00:58.74
Mike
he

00:01:01.86
Bill
So if you don't mind, give me one second here. I'm gonna read this. So Andrew's email. My name is Andrew. I'm in long-term recovery and I'm building a mission-driven resale marketplace called Another Man's Treasure. Obviously, we're going to get into that, but that's why your email opened up.

00:01:15.35
Bill
where 50% of the sale for sales go to charity, and we aim to recover treasures by recovering people. I'm not a clinician. I'm not a guru. I'm not someone who knows, or I am someone who knows what it feels like to lose himself and fight to get it back.

00:01:29.83
Bill
I speak openly about alcoholism, shame, rebuilding identity, fatherhood, and trying to build something meaningful without losing my sobriety in the process. I'd be honored to come on and have a real conversation, not polished, not preachy, just honest.

00:01:44.31
Bill
Okay? That's why you're here.

00:01:47.59
Mike
Yes. Hmm.

00:01:47.77
Andrew
I appreciate it. I appreciate it, Bill.

00:01:49.14
Mike
yes

00:01:50.25
Andrew
Hey, it's all about raw, right?

00:01:50.36
Bill
I, well, well, and I, I mean it is because really what it comes down to, and we get, I'm not saying that we've never had a guest on that tried to throw, you know, this flashy shit at us cause it's happened.

00:01:53.08
Andrew
ah

00:02:03.61
Bill
But we, we, we would rather not dig through the bullshit to figure out what these people are about. And we just had one ah recently where I literally, I had to go back with two different emails and we're, but we're going to end up having the the individual on, but they could have done this right off the bat.

00:02:18.19
Bill
So they had people, we don't have people, you don't have people, Andrew. So you just contacted us yourself. But um I even had to ask the question. i'm like, is this guy sober? If so, how long, blah, blah, blah.

00:02:27.77
Mike
Right.

00:02:27.97
Bill
Not you, not you, Andrew, but this one, this one individual, you know, so I finally got it back.

00:02:28.60
Andrew
yeah Yeah.

00:02:33.05
Bill
I'm like, okay, lead with that. I mean, sober's in our fucking title.

00:02:35.50
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:02:36.99
Bill
Um,

00:02:37.16
Mike
first goddamn First goddamn word. There it is.

00:02:40.18
Bill
tell us tell us what you yeah Tell us what you want to do.

00:02:40.24
Mike
Sober, not mature.

00:02:43.18
Bill
So I'm sorry, Andrew. I didn't mean to jump all over the beginning of of your episode. But um seriously, I like the email. It was straight to the point. I love the fact that you just said you want to come on and talk.

00:02:50.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:02:52.42
Bill
Because what you said in the end there, that's what we do. And we're like, this dude's our people, man.

00:02:57.36
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm. Oh, we all

00:02:59.03
Andrew
Well, it's all about being real, right? I mean, we've we've we've hidden for way too long, or I have hidden for way too long, which I'll i'll get i'll get into.

00:03:01.66
Bill
Yeah.

00:03:04.38
Mike
did. Mm-hmm. oh we all did

00:03:08.47
Bill
Oh yeah, we all have. We all have.

00:03:10.61
Andrew
But yeah, yeah. so So I dig it. Yeah, and I appreciate it. Hey, it's all about sharpening the sword too, right? So...

00:03:17.24
Mike
a

00:03:17.46
Bill
yeah Exactly. So take ah take literally like one minute, maybe a minute and a half, and just introduce yourself. Tell us who you are, where you're where you're from. Just a brief, brief ah little bit of your background, and then we'll get into things, okay? Okay.

00:03:30.53
Andrew
Andrew Rowell, yeah my name's Andrew rowell i'm at a Boston. Andrew Rowell, M.D.: starting a venture called another man's treasure, which essentially a marketplace and online resale marketplace where half of every sale goes to.

00:03:50.23
Andrew
the seller's choice of charity. So, um, it's really, you know, it's making the goal is to make generosity a part, part of commerce at the end of the day.

00:04:01.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:02.30
Andrew
But, um, ah my dream, the best part for me is, ah recovering treasures by recovering people, if you will. Uh, because I'm, you know, a year and a half sober and,

00:04:11.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:04:17.43
Andrew
um so I don't, I don't have the long tenure. I've struggled for way too long and I can talk to that in a bit, but, um but at the end of the day, what I've realized is service is in helping somebody else um is therapeutic and it's crucial for us.

00:04:41.06
Andrew
You know, it's part of our existence, you know, and, and while a part of recovery and, and,

00:04:41.59
Mike
Right.

00:04:47.45
Mike
Yeah. Well, careful now, Andrew. you're going to give away the secret. Yeah.

00:04:50.20
Andrew
yeah yeah Yeah, right, right, right.

00:04:51.16
Bill
hey

00:04:53.24
Andrew
and and so so that kind of... That combined with the fact that ah my wife turned me on to the Facebook marketplace a couple of years ago while I was trying to get sober. And who would have thunk? i I went out and bought 100 pairs of sneakers because my first sponsor turned me on.

00:05:16.45
Andrew
He was a sneaker head and turned me on to sneakers because at the end of the day, they go with you everywhere, right?

00:05:17.88
Mike
right

00:05:22.18
Andrew
So...

00:05:22.61
Bill
Right.

00:05:22.58
Mike
o

00:05:23.26
Andrew
um you know and and and so uh so yeah that that's um that's what i'm building right now and and uh and you know so the the mission is goodwill but the end of the day um uh you know um i forgot to mention there's also A tidbit.

00:05:45.93
Andrew
So half of every sale. So it's an online resale marketplace where half of every sale goes to the seller's choice of charity. Another quarter in the seller's pocket.

00:05:57.01
Andrew
And then the final quarter to the ship to keep the lights on, if you will.

00:06:01.86
Bill
Oh, nice. Nice.

00:06:02.17
Andrew
um Which is on par with competition and all that fun stuff.

00:06:02.33
Mike
Right.

00:06:02.49
Bill
nice

00:06:05.50
Mike
yeah

00:06:06.49
Andrew
But but for every sale, both buyer and seller received this cool doubloon. Remember pirate doubloons?

00:06:13.59
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:06:14.52
Andrew
Well, I'm trying to make them cool again.

00:06:17.39
Mike
Nice.

00:06:17.46
Bill
ha

00:06:17.50
Andrew
ah and And it's laser inscribed with the charity and the amount donated to go in the little mini AMT treasure chest provided for the house on the house.

00:06:31.02
Andrew
So it, you know, and and not to be cheesy and corny, but um But that's really what it is.

00:06:31.90
Mike
Mm. Mm.

00:06:39.40
Andrew
It's because I've found that, you know, it feels good to do good. Simple as that.

00:06:45.40
Bill
Oh yeah, yeah, right.

00:06:47.01
Andrew
It's healthy for the soul, um helps other people. And we have way too much junk in our house, you know, and and and and so let's let's, you know,

00:06:54.71
Mike
a

00:06:55.32
Bill
hey yeah

00:06:59.51
Andrew
not recycle it with our own greed and shady interactions. Let's put it to good use, you know? So, um, so that's kind of where I'm at.

00:07:06.61
Mike
Cool.

00:07:09.23
Andrew
Um, but as for personally, yes, was a closet alcoholic up until I launched this, uh, five months ago.

00:07:21.24
Bill
Nice.

00:07:21.21
Andrew
So, um, this was kind of my coming out party, if you will.

00:07:25.30
Mike
Nice.

00:07:25.98
Bill
Well, cool.

00:07:26.14
Mike
Nice.

00:07:26.34
Bill
Yeah. And yeah, and we're definitely going to get into your, get into your story here.

00:07:28.88
Andrew
Yeah. Yeah.

00:07:29.22
Bill
And we, we do things maybe a little bit different than other podcasts, but Michael get into that a second, but we actually have cousins that live in Boston.

00:07:33.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:37.58
Bill
Don't ask me the town I can never remember, but they're, they're outside of the city now. But they've been there for years. Our, our cousin, Jody went there for school, met an Irish dude, literally from Ireland and never, never went back to Cleveland.

00:07:49.75
Bill
So Yeah, she's got she's been out there with yeah with their they got their two boys, and our aunt just moved out there.

00:07:51.61
Andrew
Right on. Right.

00:07:56.47
Bill
was that, two years ago now? Has that been?

00:07:57.85
Mike
Yeah, about that.

00:07:59.26
Bill
Yeah, so we got we've got family out in the Boston area. But um ah Mike, go ahead.

00:08:03.14
Andrew
Right.

00:08:03.42
Bill
Let him know.

00:08:03.83
Andrew
All

00:08:04.10
Bill
We'll we'll get into the get into the good stuff. But yeah, let him know how we do the whole story thing around here.

00:08:06.42
Mike
Right.

00:08:06.91
Andrew
right. So

00:08:08.06
Mike
Right. All right.

00:08:10.33
Andrew
clearly we how to fucked up.

00:08:10.82
Mike
So clearly, Andrew, we know how to get fucked up. We know how to fuck up our lives. We know how to fuck up the lives of everybody around us. That's easy. We know how to do that. I'm i'm a goddamn expert and so is Bill.

00:08:22.71
Bill
ah

00:08:22.90
Mike
Um, what we're interested in is the solution. So what basically what it comes down to is we hate drunk logs. There's nothing worse than a goddamn drunk log.

00:08:31.18
Bill
Right.

00:08:33.50
Mike
So, um, that being said, we want to hear your story.

00:08:33.90
Andrew
So, that being said, we want to hear your story, we want to hear what happened, what's like, what's like, and all that good stuff, but get the drug logs minimum.

00:08:37.38
Mike
We want to know what happened, what it's like and what it's like now and all that good stuff. But, Keep the drug logs to a minimum. Qualify a little bit because, you know, we have to do that.

00:08:46.04
Andrew
Qualify little just, you know, to

00:08:47.58
Mike
But, um yeah, again, we know how to get loaded. We we don't need a tutorial on that.

00:08:52.57
Andrew
know either two Sure. I totally dig it. So yeah, I, um you know, i i grew up in a small town, um you know, ah north of Boston, about an um And, you know, i don't i don't have I don't have the battle wounds that, you know, a lot of people have.

00:09:16.22
Andrew
I grew up with a great family.

00:09:16.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:18.50
Andrew
You know, my parents were teachers. um I was really involved with athletics growing up. And then, yeah, so my parents were teachers.

00:09:28.63
Mike
Nice.

00:09:28.70
Andrew
Specifically, my father was the dean of students.

00:09:29.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:32.54
Andrew
So, and athletic director at that.

00:09:33.05
Bill
ah

00:09:33.69
Mike
nice

00:09:35.80
Bill
yeah

00:09:36.25
Andrew
So, Um, so I kind of had to stay between the lines to be quite honest in high school, but my friends, you know, I, I just, I, I was, Hey, looking back at it, I'm proud of myself for, for taming that lion that later came out in life.

00:09:42.42
Bill
right

00:09:56.79
Andrew
You know, um, once I, once I, you know, left high school, um, and went to the college scene, you know, Because I didn't drink in high school.

00:09:57.24
Mike
Right.

00:10:09.98
Andrew
i was I was the sober driver because I was always in season.

00:10:14.49
Mike
Right.

00:10:14.49
Andrew
And with my father being athletic director, I couldn't you know go to parties in a small town and be drinking.

00:10:22.62
Bill
ah

00:10:22.97
Andrew
me you know So anyway, and we had several discussions to... to that, but yeah it, so I had a great childhood and then, uh, came college and I realized that I could drink like, and, and it's in my blood.

00:10:44.42
Andrew
I, I have family, you know, um, uh, as yeah, exactly.

00:10:44.92
Mike
Right. who Most of us do.

00:10:49.18
Bill
Right.

00:10:50.53
Andrew
And, and, and so it was always, you know, um,

00:10:57.05
Andrew
i My mom always, you know, tried to scare me of it a ah bit, bit, you know, and but it fell on deaf ears.

00:11:03.60
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:07.39
Andrew
And, and so, so, um,

00:11:07.78
Mike
Well, sure.

00:11:10.42
Andrew
hey, I liked to drink. I liked the effect. and and And I grew this attitude.

00:11:14.26
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:16.86
Andrew
um You know, I really kind of had a chip on my shoulder and I i i grew and had it. But at the same time, i I grew an attitude of the questions and why it's why not.

00:11:28.69
Andrew
Because I could still, you know, even after college, um well, I played sports in college, two and a half,

00:11:29.49
Bill
Right.

00:11:40.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:40.28
Andrew
ah um And that kind of kept me, you know, from going off the deep end per se, I think, looking back at it. And then and then it bled into the professional life, right? I went into sales straight out of college. i was going to go into marketing and my professor. Just knowing my personality you know pulled me aside.

00:12:06.36
Andrew
um It was my first sales course in college. and any Anyway, pulled me aside and said, you know F marketing, if you will.

00:12:16.18
Mike
we Yeah, there you go.

00:12:16.79
Andrew
Well, oh, you guys are so, fuck marketing.

00:12:19.22
Bill
Yeah, there you go. Thank you.

00:12:21.05
Andrew
ah ah Just try sales, give it a stab.

00:12:21.34
Bill
Welcome.

00:12:22.57
Mike
Mm

00:12:24.97
Andrew
And, you know, i had that personality. is That combined with my disease, i it just started that rollercoaster ride of, you know, um well, the Alcoholics Journey, you know.

00:12:32.39
Mike
hmm.

00:12:42.25
Andrew
And...

00:12:42.69
Mike
Yep.

00:12:43.77
Andrew
and Being in sales, you you always have a stressful job. There's always a reason to drink, right?

00:12:52.89
Mike
Right.

00:12:52.92
Bill
Right.

00:12:52.92
Andrew
you know and or or Or a successful, you know you close a big, c there's there's always something.

00:12:53.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:59.28
Andrew
in

00:12:59.54
Mike
Right. Or you're unemployed and you have a reason to drink.

00:13:02.81
Andrew
Exactly, exactly.

00:13:02.94
Bill
hey

00:13:03.06
Mike
i don't have a job. I might as well get drunk.

00:13:07.00
Andrew
Exactly. And like I said, questions and why it's why not, you know, I had a high tolerance, I could, I could go out and party all night I drive, you know, I used to say weekends are for amateurs, let's get going, you know, and on a Monday or Tuesday.

00:13:11.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:20.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:24.18
Mike
Absolutely.

00:13:24.47
Andrew
And, and, um, that was my attitude because I could get up and I fought through it, you know, was resilient in that way with this funny how we can get really, uh, productive when, um, you know, when we need to, um, so I was, I, I was,

00:13:41.47
Mike
Right.

00:13:43.86
Bill
Well, yeah, and especially, i mean, back like back when we were when we were in our 20s and stuff like that, I mean, now if I if i get a bad night's sleep, I i kind of i whine a little bit, you know, which I have to remind myself.

00:13:50.87
Andrew
oh,

00:13:51.06
Mike
he

00:13:54.86
Bill
i'm like, at least I'm not hungover. At least I'm not this. At least I'm not that. But, I mean, staying up all night or only getting three hours of sleep, whatever the case is anymore, know,

00:13:58.06
Mike
Right.

00:14:06.24
Bill
denying myself anything that makes me feel better, which is sleep and food. and you know, I mean, being a decent human being is just, it's, it's unheard of, but you know, back, like you said, I mean, there was, you I've, I've been in and around sales for years and I mean, it's, it's like, it's always, whatever the industry is, you're, you're always going to find the people that, that you could drink with and it's good day.

00:14:11.35
Andrew
exactly

00:14:25.75
Bill
It's bad day. It's a Wednesday. It's a rainy Tuesday. It's a sunny Monday. It doesn't fucking matter. You know, we all we all get out there, do we do. And, you know, we keep bouncing back and that we want to make everyone think that we're not just, you know, complete, that we're not feel like we feel like we got run over by a truck.

00:14:41.45
Bill
But again, 20 year old me, you know, operated a little bit differently than than the 57 year old that's, you know, talking to you today. Man, I couldn't. i It's not even drinking anymore.

00:14:51.57
Bill
I just couldn't. I can't stay up all night anymore. I think i'd I think I'd cry.

00:14:54.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:54.57
Bill
i think I would literally cry, you know.

00:14:55.00
Andrew
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:14:56.86
Bill
So sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you. Go ahead.

00:14:58.62
Andrew
No, no, no, for sure. I i agree. I mean, hey, I'm 42 right now, and the body certainly started to break down at 40.

00:15:10.14
Mike
and this

00:15:13.59
Andrew
So, yeah, I mean, so, well, started off, I was, you know, drinking. i was it hey i You know, it's an every night thing when when you get into it um more often than not, for sure.

00:15:25.06
Mike
Yep.

00:15:27.90
Andrew
um And then it becomes hard alcohol, right? And that was, um that got really dangerous. um So fast forward, you know, so I've been i a medical sales rep for 12 years.

00:15:47.67
Andrew
twelve years

00:15:51.74
Andrew
struggling with alcoholism but a closet alcoholic i always i i've drank by myself or well you know i always had you couldn't trust a dasani bottle in my car put it that way right um oh my god too many times have i woken up just pretty sure that it's water and so dehydrated and oh that's it

00:16:06.05
Mike
Right.

00:16:18.10
Bill
ah

00:16:19.48
Andrew
Yeah.

00:16:20.41
Bill
Yeah, that's not water.

00:16:20.54
Andrew
So, yeah. And, um and yeah, yeah. So, you know, fast forward to, um I knew i had a problem, but it's crazy the shit that we tell ourself, right?

00:16:39.33
Mike
Right.

00:16:39.45
Bill
Right?

00:16:39.74
Andrew
um It's just this, it's constant lies that, We tell ourself, and in in in and it's questioning, well, why is why is she against me?

00:16:52.30
Andrew
Why is, you know, I'm a good person, and this, that, and the other, right?

00:16:54.10
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:16:54.84
Bill
ah

00:16:56.25
Mike
right

00:16:56.94
Andrew
And we all fat fight that fucking battle.

00:16:57.40
Mike
this

00:17:00.44
Mike
yeah Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, we lie to ourselves and we fucking believe it.

00:17:02.08
Andrew
Yeah.

00:17:05.17
Mike
That's that's the root of our problem. That's a big, huge part of our problem. Yes, we lie to ourselves and we absolutely believe the lies that we're telling ourselves.

00:17:14.54
Bill
Bye.

00:17:14.52
Andrew
Absolutely. And then, and, and so that, um,

00:17:21.85
Andrew
you know, it so come, come 40, I had to really, and I had been trying, you know, by myself again, my best friend and I'd never, you know, talked to him about, I just, you know, I, I i built it all up inside.

00:17:29.18
Mike
Hmm.

00:17:44.50
Andrew
you know and And so finally, really got serious about recovery and and started forcing myself to go to you know meetings at 40.

00:17:56.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:57.98
Andrew
at at forty Well, before 38 really. um And at first, you know, it's it's so hard because you don't understand.

00:18:11.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:11.22
Andrew
You know, you don't. they say they They say, I've never owned a Subaru, but anybody that goes to a Subaru dealership is a Subaru owner, right? And there's a reason for that, I guess.

00:18:25.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:25.98
Andrew
um You know, and in now knowing what I know through the program, I'm just so grateful that I stuck with it because the people that I've met, the what I've learned. So I'm big into um stoicism.

00:18:47.33
Bill
Right?

00:18:47.46
Andrew
Marcus Aurelius has meditations as well. partially saved my life. um But yeah, so around 38, I decided to go to the primary care for the first time in like a decade.

00:19:06.81
Andrew
And considering I'm in the game, you know, it's kind of sad. But I was just scared. I didn't i didn't want to hear it. I'm alive and kicking. I'm cool. you know and

00:19:17.91
Mike
Right.

00:19:18.78
Bill
yeah

00:19:18.74
Andrew
And so I went and my primary, he he threw the book at me. you know And and i was i had a little bit, a much more timber. I was like pushing 260 and high blood pressure, high cholesterol, the works. And then how about this? So he calls me the week later.

00:19:41.56
Andrew
And he said, Andrew, your lab, your liver lab results have come in. Right. And he said, he said, Andrew, were you fibbing a little bit about how much you've been drinking?

00:19:50.89
Mike
Right. Yeah, right, of course.

00:19:54.07
Bill
yeah

00:19:54.14
Andrew
And I said, yes, yes, I have.

00:19:56.63
Mike
this

00:19:57.40
Andrew
um And and and he I'll never forget, he used the word dangers my my <unk> bulls for it dangerous. dangerous.

00:20:06.52
Mike
right

00:20:06.87
Andrew
and And so check it. You'd think that that would scare the shit out of you. I drank for another year, you know, and, and, and, in in and um, you know, you guys understand, we understand that, but, um, that's scary.

00:20:15.09
Mike
yeah right of course

00:20:15.83
Bill
Right.

00:20:23.13
Mike
is is

00:20:27.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:27.74
Andrew
That's scary AF, you know, when you can't really trust yourself to stay alive.

00:20:34.20
Mike
yeah Yeah, right.

00:20:36.22
Andrew
What?

00:20:36.43
Bill
Right.

00:20:37.08
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:37.11
Andrew
What?

00:20:38.33
Mike
yeah

00:20:38.36
Andrew
You know what mean? And and so so, and that was, yeah, 38, four years ago. And I've been struggling for,

00:20:50.07
Andrew
you know on and off, but continued to go to

00:20:56.33
Andrew
to, tried my darndest. you know and And because I've tried everything, tried it myself.

00:21:03.49
Mike
Right.

00:21:03.86
Andrew
Oh my God, like only here and again, like, yeah, no that shit doesn't work. um

00:21:10.05
Mike
Right.

00:21:11.00
Andrew
you You have to find the higher power.

00:21:15.04
Bill
Right.

00:21:15.00
Andrew
And so that's another part of my story.

00:21:15.17
Mike
Mm

00:21:17.40
Andrew
So my higher power, I was always a scientist my whole life. Not a real scientist, not smart enough for that.

00:21:23.74
Mike
hmm. Sure.

00:21:26.07
Andrew
but But um if I don't see it, don't believe it, right? And and I mean, I grew up going to church too. you know My family is religious, and but i I never bought in.

00:21:38.80
Mike
Right.

00:21:38.94
Andrew
i i And it it's embarrassing now to say it but i thought that religion was for people that couldn't handle life on their own you know secretly i thought that you know what mean and and and and it's exactly exactly mike exactly so so you know and and it's it's so ignorant now um i

00:21:50.23
Bill
yeah

00:21:51.06
Mike
Sure. Yeah. Says the person who's drinking all the time.

00:21:59.06
Bill
ha yeah

00:22:08.25
Andrew
I now understand why people do a dance when they're, you know, because because I'm a God-fearing man now. I had the higher power, you know, starting off um in this journey of of really trying to tackle this disease.

00:22:27.58
Andrew
But am i my original higher power was nature, right? Because I got...

00:22:33.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:22:34.63
Andrew
Well, got, I got, i got a DUI. There, there's more to the story too, but I, I ended up in rehab.

00:22:43.06
Bill
there There always is

00:22:44.86
Andrew
Yeah. And you know, Hey, we could go on for days, but um ended up in rehab and that was, that was really the turning point.

00:22:56.28
Andrew
um And yeah, this was four years ago. Yeah.

00:23:03.93
Andrew
but uh but oh when i really because you need a higher power right and i i chose all right so nature nature is my higher power and that's an acceptable one or or so i was told however squirrels didn't get me too far you know and and and because i love nature i i love everything about it and there's something tangible there and

00:23:12.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:16.18
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:23:30.42
Andrew
You know, um but I just didn't see him, if you will, you know. And so check it. i I had a sponsor and he was really, you know, trying to turn me on to God and and God bless him.

00:23:48.01
Andrew
I love him, you know, um for the efforts. i just wasn't ready at the time, you know.

00:23:55.62
Mike
Right.

00:23:55.86
Andrew
Like they talk about ready. um And i I guess I just wasn't beaten enough. You know, I needed more beatings. But he... ah but he um And so I, and I tried to understand that and I just couldn't.

00:24:17.01
Andrew
And then fast forward a couple of years, i i try, i I had another sponsor, well, the sponsor that I have now, and he's been a game changer for me because he turned me on to what I originally called the sign.

00:24:29.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:35.95
Andrew
Because I couldn't grasp an idea of, I couldn't, you know, it's not that I didn't want to say God. And I'm not like super, you know, um i'm umm I'm not totally against it.

00:24:52.44
Andrew
I just, I couldn't, I couldn't understand it. And so yeah and and so we're talking in one of our sessions about, you know, with the big book and, and, and he, and I said, you know, I know there's something because quantum physics kind of fascinated me and, you know, and, and there's so much shit in this world that we don't know.

00:25:15.86
Andrew
I mean, you know, I have a friend that has twins and um he had one of those experiences where his brother was in a car accident, you know, and ended up calling him.

00:25:16.12
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:25:27.50
Andrew
And they never call, you know, and there's so many stories like that. They you just don't, you can't explain some of this shit. And so he said, and and I was like, there's a sign out there.

00:25:40.31
Andrew
You know, there's some sight type of sign. He's like, call it your sign. There's call your signal, you know? So I called it my signal for like a good year.

00:25:51.51
Andrew
And then, um, and my God is not your conventional God though. So, um, you know, and, and teach their own, you know, I, I think, I think there's, you know, good God's for everybody.

00:25:57.94
Mike
Hmm.

00:26:03.01
Mike
Right.

00:26:10.10
Andrew
And, and, you know, if you look at religion, like darn, they all have pretty similar messages, right?

00:26:10.55
Mike
Hmm.

00:26:17.89
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:18.07
Andrew
Um, So my my God, i mean, I'll tell you, don't mind saying it, but you might think that I'm crazy and hopefully nobody switches the channel.

00:26:28.94
Andrew
But my God honestly speaks to me like Bumblebee from the Transformers, like through song, film and dance.

00:26:35.13
Bill
ha

00:26:37.82
Andrew
I, you know, it's it's weird and it's wacky, but I've been picking up these breadcrumbs. ah for years um and that is what turned my sign into God for me I mean it it it becomes it turns it it turns into a point where you're like then then this isn't coincidence and I'll give you one so check it five years ago I get nabbed for do y

00:27:13.40
Andrew
you know so Sunday, um I'm drinking every day, you know starting at noon, if not earlier.

00:27:17.84
Mike
Cool. Mm-hmm.

00:27:22.33
Andrew
And I had passed out and then woke up to the wife saying, we need cat medicine. So I go to, and I'm a pint and a half in with half hour nap. um in from a few you know with a half hour cat nap in between and and so i go to cvs down the street and i get pulled over for a broken tail light and which i had backed into at the liquor store the week prior so ah get yeah getting booed so go figure and and so um

00:27:47.94
Bill
Bye.

00:27:50.04
Mike
exactly

00:27:50.30
Bill
hey hey

00:28:00.28
Andrew
So, Coop gives me the whole song. I mean, i had actually just bought a pint of liquor and had just taken a huge swig in my car.

00:28:13.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:13.31
Andrew
and I mean, I lived half a mile from the sea you know from the liquor store, CVS area.

00:28:14.30
Bill
yeah

00:28:19.22
Bill
right

00:28:22.71
Andrew
And, you know, hey, pulls me over. I do the, I tried doing the dance. um He, I thought I aced I mean, guys, I'm in i'm in PJs and slippers.

00:28:33.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:39.13
Andrew
And I thought I aced it, but of course, I mean, what you know, kidding me?

00:28:45.11
Bill
hey

00:28:45.24
Andrew
He knew, and they also, you know, found the bottle in the car and And so I still wanted to fight it tooth and nail, right? I get the best lawyer and this, that, and the other. And, you know, it's just a wacky the frame of mind that we're in, you know, defending our actions. and And so the funny thing is, guys, so that DUI, my of oh very, an aunt of mine who also,

00:29:18.71
Andrew
um struggled with this past and the year prior in her inheritance which I had received like a month before this DUI was almost to a T when you added up all the court charges and all that shit was almost exactly like literally I put it down on paper and it was within $40 That I, you know, hey, but in car insurance and all that.

00:29:37.85
Mike
Wow.

00:29:47.58
Mike
wow

00:29:52.31
Andrew
um But it's it's, that was wild, you know. um And, you know, i and and then you want to take, I can even take that step further and not to be, but um I get the brake light fixed.

00:30:12.31
Andrew
And then literally, months after it gets fixed i came out to a parking lot and somebody but i mean it just had don't know it was off and neither here nor there it's still off right now but uh but um because i love the symbolism of it and reminds me you know well i not the taillights the reflector if you will but

00:30:29.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:34.36
Mike
yeah

00:30:39.22
Mike
yeah

00:30:39.93
Bill
Right.

00:30:40.38
Andrew
but but um But so it's just those examples that um i have just have turned me into a believer. And thank God, because I was i honestly don't think that I'd be here right now the way that I was a i a violent to my my body.

00:31:07.29
Andrew
violent drinker, you know, just like a pint and a half an hour, you know, and that's not a flex.

00:31:07.46
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:31:13.73
Andrew
That's how sick this is.

00:31:16.20
Mike
Right.

00:31:16.41
Bill
Right.

00:31:16.50
Andrew
Because at the end, it got to the point where, yeah, that's where I was so excited to get it going. And and I just, I wouldn't even realize it. But within 30 minutes, the pint would be gone, you know, and that's scary.

00:31:32.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:34.19
Andrew
Um, uh, because then, i mean, i was just, I'd, I'd pass out, you know, um, And that's no way to live life as good as you think you are, as as righteous as you think you are being to your family and trying your best and at work and giving it your all.

00:31:46.17
Bill
no

00:31:46.22
Mike
Right.

00:31:48.86
Bill
yeah

00:31:58.96
Andrew
You can tell yourself everything. But if you are being held down by those demons and you are afflicted with the disease, this disease, you can't you can't you can't be your best self.

00:32:14.54
Andrew
And and so i've've I've made it. And so I stumbled upon Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. If you guys are familiar with Marcus Aurelius, the dude has changed my life ah from 2,000 years ago.

00:32:26.54
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:32:32.02
Andrew
Um, he's the old guy in gladiator.

00:32:32.07
Mike
Right.

00:32:35.89
Bill
Oh.

00:32:36.05
Andrew
if you, you know, he's the emperor, he was the emperor of Rome, um, 2000 years ago. And he, this guy, bad-ass MF, um, yeah.

00:32:49.88
Andrew
you know, ah because he went through so much shit, um you know, from wars to to betrayals to, you know, as he had 13 children, almost all of them died young.

00:33:07.65
Andrew
the one that survived ended up being a huge dick, um you know, and like, well, he was a communist.

00:33:11.77
Mike
Right.

00:33:14.07
Bill
yeah

00:33:15.49
Andrew
He was one of the worst emperors.

00:33:17.21
Bill
Right.

00:33:17.61
Andrew
Anyway, um but Marcus, so he, for some reason, he, I found this at a bookstore and, you know, you were when when you're in early recovery, or at least for me, I was grasping at anything that would try to make me feel good, you know, to take you out of the previous mindset because that man needed to be assassinated.

00:33:37.82
Mike
right

00:33:46.42
Andrew
You know, but that that mean man needed to be, needed to

00:33:54.26
Andrew
just completely, you know, become become somebody new. you need to learn new ways.

00:34:01.88
Bill
Right?

00:34:03.27
Andrew
And I just looked at it as kind of the violent ah assassination of the previous me. And I was proud to do it because fuck him, you know.

00:34:10.01
Bill
ah

00:34:12.63
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:12.73
Bill
Right?

00:34:12.99
Andrew
And I i looked at it as, You know, not redemption, but

00:34:14.08
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:17.53
Andrew
i will um but, ah oh my God. Yeah,

00:34:24.28
Mike
yeah Like a rebirth reborn.

00:34:25.53
Andrew
yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:34:29.11
Bill
Well, we've we've had people we've had people say before that, you know, they um you know they i don't know you you start to get you know into this thing.

00:34:29.37
Andrew
Yeah. yeah need yeah

00:34:36.26
Bill
and You start to sober up a little bit. You start to learn a couple of things. And most of us realize that, you know, this isn't about, you know, trying to get back to the person we were. you know, we need to start over.

00:34:46.83
Bill
You know, i don't I don't want any version of that of that guy that I was before. And we were basically your age when when we got sober. I was 41.

00:34:54.69
Mike
All of

00:34:54.87
Bill
Mike was 43. Yeah. um and uh i mean we were going through the same thing you know all of us were uh adults on paper didn't know what the fuck we were doing um all of us were i love the you know when you're abusing yourself yeah we were all doing the same thing mike did a mike did a number of uh number of drugs no i'm sorry mike did mike did all the drugs mike did all the drugs um i just drank and i say just but it was it was almost just enough to to kill myself but Real quickly, but going back to the higher power thing, and I'm and i'm glad you went through all that because it was interesting to me because, well, a few things.

00:35:09.70
Mike
the drugs.

00:35:09.79
Andrew
Right.

00:35:12.73
Mike
all of the drugs

00:35:14.68
Andrew
Yeah, yeah. That's a part of me too.

00:35:27.94
Bill
um I'm at best agnostic. I'll let Mike speak for himself here in a minute, but I'm at best agnostic.

00:35:31.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:34.08
Bill
Grew up in the in the church world, but family wasn't really into it. I understood religion, but just never had a a guiding light, I guess, through it. but i walked into this program without any any issues with um organized religion or god or anything like that that's not completely true i've got some issues with you know a certain part of the church that does certain things that has been sued for it and all those different things but that's a whole other story but that had nothing to do with my own my own upbringing but i still didn't have a thing like i didn't i didn't understand the higher power part So we were told right off the bat, just know it's not you.

00:35:57.72
Andrew
Mate.

00:36:08.10
Bill
So I had to know it wasn't me.

00:36:09.11
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:36:09.70
Bill
Mike had to know it wasn't him. that's That was our starting point for a higher power. And then I've developed this higher power over the years. Now, it sounds like you don't necessarily, and Andrew, that you don't necessarily haven't built yourself around a higher power that this God that you might find in a local church, you know, but you've developed a God of your own understanding, which is what the book which is what the book says you know.

00:36:32.04
Andrew
Yep.

00:36:32.65
Bill
And we talk about this all the time. And Mike says it best. And I'll let him say it about what he feels about people doing what they do. But the whole point is what ah we've got. We've got true, you know, go to church God friends.

00:36:44.45
Bill
We've got people who are ah all the way on the other spectrum.

00:36:44.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:47.22
Bill
We have people in the middle. We have people that have everywhere in between. And you know what? Each and every one of us has the ability, if we do the work, to be in the same position, which is it sounds like obviously clearly you're going to Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:37:00.14
Bill
We're AA people. But it doesn't matter. Any part of recovery that you're in, you can be successful if you have this if you have this structure to your lives and you do these things. It doesn't necessarily have to be 12 steps.

00:37:11.50
Bill
It could be just community. It could be whatever you want it to be. But if you're doing all these things and have these things and you're not an egotist and a piece of shit anymore, You know, in a dick, like you said, the can't sun was that made me laugh, by the way.

00:37:22.53
Andrew
Yeah.

00:37:23.85
Bill
Of course, the one that lives is a dick, right?

00:37:26.49
Andrew
Yeah.

00:37:26.84
Bill
You know, but um so all all that we need is to have these these very simple things in whatever form we have.

00:37:27.10
Andrew
Yeah.

00:37:32.28
Bill
So then, Mike, what are you? Right.

00:37:34.33
Mike
Right. Well, I'm an atheist.

00:37:37.88
Bill
Right.

00:37:37.98
Mike
um You know, i walked into the rooms an atheist, um scared to fucking death because, you know, I'd been around the rooms before, knew, you know, yes, you have to have a higher power, you had power greater than yourself is the phrasing I like best.

00:37:49.30
Andrew
I'm an atheist. I'm still an atheist.

00:37:51.90
Mike
Um, and yeah, you know, it is, I'm an atheist.

00:37:52.42
Andrew
I'm almost 16 years sober. I'm an atheist. There is God.

00:37:55.18
Mike
I'm still an atheist.

00:37:55.22
Andrew
That's fine. That's true.

00:37:56.14
Mike
I'm almost 16 years sober.

00:37:57.84
Andrew
But there are powers greater than myself in my life.

00:37:58.02
Mike
I'm an atheist. Um, there is no God. That's fine. That's me. Um, but there are powers greater than myself in my life.

00:38:02.92
Andrew
And one thing I found in this journey is it doesn't matter where your higher power is.

00:38:05.95
Mike
And the one thing I found in this journey is it doesn't matter what your higher power is. You need to do its work. You need to be a part of it. And as long as that's working,

00:38:17.75
Mike
then that's fine. You know, that's, that's how this works.

00:38:19.74
Andrew
Right.

00:38:20.83
Mike
And I don't care what your higher power is.

00:38:21.08
Andrew
Right.

00:38:24.30
Mike
I don't care what Bill's higher power is. I don't care what anybody's fucking higher power is.

00:38:26.34
Andrew
Amen. Yep.

00:38:28.66
Mike
Right. As long as it's making you a better person and it's making you a better person for the people around you, Cool. That's all it is.

00:38:37.05
Bill
hey

00:38:37.57
Mike
If, if you're, if your power that's greater yourself, if your God is making you a worse person and is making you someone who is awful to the people around you, I got a problem with that, you know?

00:38:50.01
Bill
Right.

00:38:50.46
Mike
So yeah, but it doesn't matter.

00:38:51.08
Andrew
Right on. Yeah.

00:38:52.46
Mike
Right. Again. Atheist, but ah there are power, you know, fuck Alcoholics Anonymous is a power greater than me and I'm a part of it and I try to do its work and that's, you know and that's one of, I have lots of powers that are greater than me today, which is wonderful.

00:39:09.40
Mike
You know, i mean, it's all not a first step shit.

00:39:11.90
Andrew
right on

00:39:12.44
Mike
Right. You know, yeah, I'm powerless over the fucking substances, whatever they happen to be.

00:39:13.14
Andrew
yeah

00:39:16.77
Andrew
Right.

00:39:18.14
Mike
And my life is unmanageable again. You know, next month we're going to have 16 fucking years. And guess what? My life is still unmanageable. If I try to manage my life in my way, I'm fucked.

00:39:32.09
Mike
because I've proven it to myself over and over and over again, right? I let these principles, these these people, these guidelines, that's what manages my life.

00:39:42.18
Mike
And as long as I allow that to happen, I'm not a complete fucking asshole today, complete, and I'm a better person.

00:39:48.91
Andrew
Right, right. Yeah.

00:39:50.99
Mike
And hopefully tomorrow I'll be a little bit better than I was today. And that's all I can fucking hope for.

00:39:56.47
Andrew
right

00:39:56.73
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:39:57.27
Andrew
right

00:39:57.41
Bill
And you, and you said, you said the main thing and that's what Mike says all the time. He doesn't care what anyone else out there does. That's the word. Anyone's higher power is just make yourself a better person. Don't fuck with people around you. And then that's, that's, that's the goal, right?

00:40:08.25
Mike
Yeah, that's it.

00:40:08.61
Bill
And that's the goal of what we're doing. So, but yeah, so yeah, Andrew, I mean, that's ah but our, our point is we agree with you. Yeah.

00:40:15.00
Mike
Yes.

00:40:15.10
Andrew
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:15.21
Bill
That was ah as a long way for both of us to say that.

00:40:15.90
Andrew
yeah yeah

00:40:18.33
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, it's seriously the the thing of it is and and we surprisingly we were four days apart in our sobriety and we're coming up in April. We yeah, we will both of us all have 16 years and we met out in Cleveland and there's all these different is so so fucking random.

00:40:29.04
Andrew
That's awesome.

00:40:34.22
Bill
Uh, became friends and you know, we're now we're family and all these different things.

00:40:34.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:37.66
Bill
Like, like you just said, you know, with your, with your taillights and all this different stuff and the money that you were given by your aunt, all this randomness there, there's shit out there. There's universe, whatever you want to call it, that somehow placed the two of us together.

00:40:48.86
Bill
And then we fed Mike and he never fucking went away, you know?

00:40:51.22
Mike
he

00:40:52.16
Bill
And, you know, you know all these years, that's a true story, though.

00:40:52.79
Andrew
Ha ha ha.

00:40:55.68
Bill
our our mom and Our mom invited him down for coming up.

00:40:55.86
Mike
Yes. 15.

00:40:58.76
Bill
it's It'll be, what, 15 years ago now?

00:41:01.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:02.47
Bill
Yeah, 15 years ago now um on Easter, our mom and our stepdad invited him down for Easter breakfast.

00:41:02.92
Mike
Yep.

00:41:08.55
Bill
And he came and he had a tie on and he brought a plant and a flower whatever it was.

00:41:11.95
Mike
Yep.

00:41:12.39
Bill
And that's, that's the joke in our family is that, you know, we fed him and he never went away. And, you know, like now everyone just looks around like, well, I i guess he, I guess he lives here now. I guess he's here, you know, or not lives, not lives here, but well i get I guess he's going to be here for all these things now.

00:41:24.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:26.02
Bill
So, Hey Mike, how you doing?

00:41:26.06
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:27.35
Andrew
Right on.

00:41:27.45
Mike
Right.

00:41:28.07
Andrew
Right on.

00:41:28.44
Mike
hmm.

00:41:28.83
Andrew
I dig it. Yeah. I mean, well, it's just wild, right?

00:41:30.20
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:41:32.52
Andrew
How, how our journeys like I, you know, um, I don't, I see, I'm finally kind of getting to the point where, cause again, being a closet alcoholic for 20 years, you know, um, uh, I wouldn't, you know, I, I was just so like, but,

00:41:46.55
Mike
e

00:41:46.81
Bill
Right.

00:41:57.69
Andrew
So it's been a process because, because you know, in this company, I came up with this idea and, you know, I just said, fuck it, because I got the b the the the bug to to help to serve, you know, through the program and and and teaching, you know, the 12 steps.

00:42:13.01
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:42:19.51
Andrew
I mean, The 12 steps will make, first of all, I mean, they're crucial for us, but will make any human being better.

00:42:26.30
Mike
Right.

00:42:26.58
Bill
yeah right

00:42:29.02
Andrew
but But understanding that, but more importantly, practicing it, right?

00:42:29.10
Mike
Yep.

00:42:35.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:35.82
Andrew
And having that discipline, um you know, the discipline is something that, That's newer to me too, you know because booze

00:42:45.91
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:42:50.46
Andrew
boozes and drugs just give you an excuse to do everything. you think yeah you know i mean and and exactly like so so yeah i um and being honest with yourself and that whole process it it's it's fucking beautiful to be quite honest you know it it and for a lack of better term um

00:42:53.93
Mike
Right.

00:42:54.23
Bill
all right

00:42:56.73
Mike
And an excuse to do nothing. Yep.

00:43:05.16
Mike
Hmm.

00:43:11.42
Mike
Yes, it is.

00:43:16.54
Andrew
that's a word that I haven't. So I was a rock emotionally, you know, my whole life.

00:43:21.93
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:43:23.44
Andrew
I know i didn't cry. Me, no cry. You know, uh, however me now i am.

00:43:27.62
Bill
Right.

00:43:31.85
Andrew
And you know what? I accept it. I call it my new age liquid courage. Cause I have cried so many times guys.

00:43:37.14
Bill
ha

00:43:40.97
Andrew
And you know, and Hey, I, I think it's healthy. Um, Because I had so much ah buried, buried.

00:43:52.57
Andrew
you You don't realize until you strictly you go through that strictly and honestly, very honestly, brutally honestly.

00:43:59.71
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:44:03.06
Andrew
And you learn so much about yourself. And it like ah in in it Yeah, beautiful. I don't mind saying the word beautiful as of as a man. I'm comfortable comfortable in my masculinity um because life is beautiful now for me.

00:44:13.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:14.18
Bill
Right.

00:44:16.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:19.26
Mike
Yes.

00:44:20.11
Andrew
like compared to i'm I'm on that pink balloon you know that we talk about and I'm just waiting for it to pop.

00:44:24.90
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:28.83
Andrew
you know And the funny thing is, right, we go through, life is hard, you know, and we go through so many, so so much shit.

00:44:29.34
Mike
yeah

00:44:42.94
Andrew
But the funny thing is, you hear and you hear it all the time when you're starting out going to meetings, and you know, you hear someone say, it's hard to describe until you you're in it and and you see the good things happening and this, that, and the other.

00:44:59.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:00.20
Andrew
But it's true.

00:45:02.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:02.04
Andrew
Life does get better and you can deal with things, real life problems in a different way.

00:45:03.88
Bill
Right.

00:45:07.19
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:45:09.74
Andrew
And it's hard to explain to somebody that's in that early stage. Cause man, I was there for just and scared, like petrified the fear, the fear that I had that I didn't know that I had, you know i mean?

00:45:20.09
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:45:26.14
Mike
Right.

00:45:27.64
Andrew
Of just, yeah.

00:45:28.70
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:30.41
Andrew
So,

00:45:30.80
Mike
You know, I mean, did the book talks about, man, we're, you know, driven by a thousand forms of fear. And we are. Yeah, absolutely. You know, thankfully, you do this thing, and I'm only driven by about a couple dozen forms of fear now.

00:45:43.58
Mike
So...

00:45:44.18
Bill
hu

00:45:45.08
Andrew
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:45:46.14
Mike
Yeah, right. I mean, it's still there. It's always going to be there. That's, you know, it's one of the things that we learn and we accept about this thing is, you know, yes, our character defects, our fears, all that, all that fucked up shit in our head is still going to be there.

00:45:59.78
Mike
um But it's just, it lessens, it lessens and it it becomes less important.

00:46:00.14
Bill
Right.

00:46:04.38
Mike
And, and, and as we go through this thing, It gets smaller and smaller and smaller, but it's always going to be there. It's like, it's like the disease itself, you know, the alcoholism itself and the drug addiction itself is always going to be there.

00:46:18.48
Mike
I'm always going to be an alcoholic.

00:46:18.81
Andrew
Absolutely. Right.

00:46:20.16
Mike
I'm always going to be a drug addict. Um, you know, and that's fine. I accept that. Um, but it gets smaller. The more work we do, the more we put in, the more we are of service and and we help other people and all that stuff that we, that we need to do.

00:46:35.72
Mike
And, and, and, Honestly, still selfish and self-centered. I want to feel good. I still want to feel good. That's my alcoholic characteristic.

00:46:42.60
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:46:44.46
Mike
You know, I want to feel good. I just, I feel good in different ways now and in real ways and better ways. And yes, it's, it's a wonderful thing. So, you know, keep going, man.

00:46:55.74
Mike
Cause it's all that rotten shit gets smaller and all the good shit gets bigger.

00:47:01.53
Andrew
Yeah, exactly.

00:47:01.78
Bill
Yeah, and we talked just real quick, Andrew.

00:47:03.77
Andrew
Yeah.

00:47:03.86
Bill
We talk about this. I didn't want to run ah run over this fear thing real quick. We talk about fear on here all the time.

00:47:07.18
Andrew
Yeah.

00:47:08.34
Bill
And actually, ah Mike is the one that brought it kind of to my attention.

00:47:08.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:47:11.34
Bill
Every problem I have, every issue I have, every emotion I have is fear-based, which I never thought about. You know, if i'm if I'm angry about something, what what am I fearful of? if i'm you know If I'm nervous about something, what am I fearful of?

00:47:23.96
Bill
And it's like every literally everything.

00:47:24.19
Andrew
Right.

00:47:26.28
Bill
And its it was this this eye-opening thing. And we've been doing this for a little over four years now. So we were, you know, I mean, basically 11, almost 12 years sober when we got into this thing.

00:47:36.72
Bill
So think about that. We're 11, 12 years sober. And in that timeframe, so 12, 13, 14, 15 years, it's like, holy shit, I never do that.

00:47:46.33
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:47:46.62
Andrew
Yeah.

00:47:46.80
Bill
You know, which is, which has been kind of amazing. And at nine times out of 10, it's, it's just, he and I talking and something, something comes up or we'll have a guest on to bring something up. And I'm like, well, fuck man. I never, never looked at anything like that before.

00:47:58.68
Andrew
right

00:47:58.78
Bill
So it's these. Yeah. And like the biggest thing Mike says is that or Mike said was, you know, it all lessons. It's, you know, and just realizing where all these fucked up thoughts, if you have a fucked up thought today, there's nothing wrong with it.

00:48:11.09
Bill
Just figure out where it came from and let it go and work through it, you know, and then, you know, then you're brushing off these things. Whereas, you know, to your point, you know, the the reason that you can cry and you, you could have emotion now is because you don't have, you know, alcohol and or drugs.

00:48:23.96
Bill
We don't have alcohol and or drugs that fucking cover this shit up at it anymore. You know, we, we feel literally everything better, you know?

00:48:28.25
Andrew
Yeah.

00:48:31.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:31.48
Andrew
Sure.

00:48:31.80
Bill
Yeah. I feel better.

00:48:32.41
Andrew
Sure.

00:48:32.84
Bill
I feel pain. I feel scared. I feel everything. I feel joy, pleasure, all these goddamn things. I feel better now. And, uh, yeah, that's where I think, uh, my personal opinion is where, that's where all the emotion comes from.

00:48:44.43
Bill
Cause now you have, an opportunity to to actually feel it rather than, you know, just, you know, stifle it up, you know?

00:48:44.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:50.26
Andrew
Right. Absolutely. And, you know... It really is a miracle. you know um I heard mel get or ah yeah was it Mel Gibson say that recently, but or maybe it was a while ago, but he's a miracle and he because or somebody, but um neither here nor there.

00:49:12.86
Bill
ha

00:49:14.06
Andrew
ah

00:49:14.94
Bill
Somebody said it.

00:49:15.96
Andrew
Yeah.

00:49:16.22
Mike
Somebody said one or two people have said it.

00:49:16.32
Andrew
Yeah. I, uh, I, yes, yes.

00:49:19.48
Bill
and Right. Right. Yeah.

00:49:20.93
Andrew
I, I, I truly believe that it is, it's, it is a beautiful process when it works, but also to your point, you know, i know the disease is doing pushups behind me right now, you know, and, and, and I know uh,

00:49:41.59
Andrew
ah I'm scared to death.

00:49:43.32
Mike
Hmm.

00:49:44.58
Andrew
do You know, I don't even like to say it because I've relapsed relapsed so many times over and over.

00:49:46.78
Mike
Yeah, well, no, that's... Yeah, well, me too.

00:49:51.03
Andrew
But this time i this time i have...

00:49:51.06
Mike
Right?

00:49:55.10
Andrew
God on my side, if you will.

00:49:57.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:58.14
Andrew
um And it's real. It's just, it's different. It hits different, you know, with, cause, cause also I got, I got Mark Zuckerberg's algorithm is, is really, you know, yeah Hey, he's, he's, I don't know if it's really God or if it's Mark Zuckerberg's algorithm, but it helps my process, my journey.

00:50:10.10
Mike
a

00:50:19.56
Mike
Hmm.

00:50:23.38
Mike
Right.

00:50:23.58
Andrew
you know, because all the social media, it's just quotes, stoic quotes and Marcus Aurelius Seneca, you know, and Aristotle or whoever may be.

00:50:33.78
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:50:34.10
Andrew
Um, cause those anecdotes, those have absolutely just, I mean, turn because I'm a simple mind, you know, but at the same, I'm simple yet complex, right?

00:50:48.57
Andrew
Aren't we all right, right.

00:50:48.82
Mike
Welcome to the club.

00:50:50.75
Andrew
Exactly.

00:50:51.90
Mike
And on that note, on that note, looking at the old clock on the wall, we need to take a quick break and we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

00:50:52.22
Andrew
um

00:50:53.56
Bill
yeah

00:50:55.90
Andrew
Oh, yeah.

00:51:11.03
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And yeah, what did you what did you start with or leave with? What did you say? Right.

00:51:17.50
Mike
Well, I, he was, you know, and the thing is you've talking about, you know, seeing all these things, the algorithm feeding you and all that.

00:51:24.22
Bill
Right.

00:51:24.70
Mike
The thing is you're open to it. You're looking for it now.

00:51:28.09
Bill
Right.

00:51:28.12
Andrew
Bright.

00:51:28.49
Bill
where are right

00:51:28.86
Mike
That's the difference, right?

00:51:30.11
Andrew
Bright.

00:51:30.18
Mike
That, yeah, you're, you're looking for it now. You know, it's, it's, I mean, back when we were in our disease, you know, for myself, I was constantly looking for the negative, right?

00:51:37.39
Andrew
myself, I was constantly looking for the negative, right?

00:51:40.60
Mike
Right. And hey, guess what?

00:51:41.15
Andrew
And hey, guess what? That's what I fucking found.

00:51:42.08
Mike
That's what I fucking found. And, you know, this world is awful.

00:51:44.13
Andrew
And you know, this world is awful, this is an awful place, I hate this place, blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:51:45.60
Mike
This is an awful place. I hate this place. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Because that's what I was looking for.

00:51:49.19
Andrew
So that's what was looking for.

00:51:50.24
Mike
You know, and it's real fucking easy to find.

00:51:50.95
Andrew
You and it's real fucking easy to find.

00:51:53.12
Mike
You know, that's, again, the lazy thing.

00:51:53.79
Andrew
You know, that's, again, the thing, it's a little bit harder for the in this world than it be.

00:51:55.40
Mike
It's a little bit harder to look for the good in this world. And, you know, it takes more work.

00:51:59.48
Andrew
You know, more work, and it honestly does.

00:52:00.17
Mike
It honestly does.

00:52:01.20
Andrew
if we're doing the work, and we're looking for the positive ones,

00:52:01.66
Mike
But if we're doing the work and we're looking for the positive things, hey, guess what? We find those, too.

00:52:08.66
Andrew
Yeah, I 100% with you.

00:52:11.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:12.06
Andrew
i Because it's clarity, right?

00:52:13.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:14.50
Andrew
it's clari It's clarity is what we have.

00:52:14.61
Bill
Right.

00:52:17.69
Andrew
and And so you...

00:52:17.94
Mike
Right. But again, but we can, I can clearly look, you know, I, again, my, my brain is clear. I can look for the negative and I can clearly see that and, you know, and find it and, and focus on that. It's all about what we do with it. It's doing the work.

00:52:34.46
Mike
You know, you said, you said, you said something that I'm going to disagree with.

00:52:34.57
Andrew
Right.

00:52:38.30
Mike
You said this thing sometimes works or mostly works or something like that. No, no, it always fucking works.

00:52:44.38
Andrew
Yeah.

00:52:44.50
Mike
Right. You know, um it's what we go to Founders Day every year and they read the original text of how it works, right? You know how it works. never we seen to Rarely have we seen a person fail who's thoroughly followed our path, right?

00:52:57.16
Bill
Yeah.

00:52:57.22
Mike
The original wording, which they read at Founders Day every year is Never have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path.

00:53:03.79
Andrew
Right.

00:53:05.65
Mike
And I wish they wouldn't have changed that because it's absolutely true. If we do the work, if we work this program, it works 100% of the time.

00:53:12.95
Andrew
In cons,

00:53:14.28
Mike
Yeah, right. It's that

00:53:15.19
Andrew
Right.

00:53:15.96
Mike
yeah right it's us that

00:53:16.73
Andrew
Unless and unconstitutionally capable of themselves.

00:53:20.22
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:53:20.55
Andrew
Right.

00:53:20.66
Mike
Yeah. Being honest.

00:53:21.11
Andrew
yeah

00:53:21.62
Mike
Right. Which I've happened to know somebody like that.

00:53:24.22
Andrew
Right. Yes, I do too.

00:53:25.14
Mike
um You know, right. We all do. Right.

00:53:28.38
Andrew
Right.

00:53:28.42
Mike
that They just absolutely cannot get honest. And but, you know, 99 percent of us can if we work at it, you know, and.

00:53:38.26
Bill
so So here, great greatest story. Tell them the story about Tony. Speaking of that, that's Tony's a great example of that of that whole thing, right?

00:53:43.16
Mike
Yes. Yes.

00:53:43.92
Andrew
Yeah.

00:53:46.49
Mike
Right. Okay. So our buddy, Tony, who we've actually had on here, great friend of ours. um his His wife and he he and his wife were running partners together, right? um Heroin addicts, whole the whole deal. And um she went and she got sober.

00:54:03.38
Mike
Well, she went into you know rehab, whatever, and and her sponsor said, you cannot have anything to do with them. Right. And so they started to kind of get in touch a little bit and he was still out ripping and running.

00:54:14.51
Mike
And um and and she said, look, you know, whatever. So bottom line is he went fine.

00:54:20.71
Andrew
I'm going to work these steps.

00:54:21.10
Mike
Okay. I'm going to go into AA. I'm going to work this thing.

00:54:25.20
Andrew
I'm going to get a spot.

00:54:25.38
Mike
I'm going to work these steps. I'm going to get a sponsor. I'm going to do everything that you people tell me to do to prove that this shit doesn't work.

00:54:34.34
Andrew
Right.

00:54:35.06
Mike
Yeah. He's 14 years sober now. yeah They're back together. you know, they're married. They stayed married. They got back together. They've got a house together.

00:54:45.54
Mike
They've been together for, you know, whatever.

00:54:46.78
Andrew
Right on.

00:54:47.86
Bill
Like 30 years or some goddamn thing.

00:54:48.92
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:54:50.02
Bill
Yeah.

00:54:50.96
Mike
Right, but they've been back together, they you know and and yes, you know he he came into this thing to prove that we were all full of shit, and it wasn't going to work, but he went in and he did everything that they told him to do, and he's fucking sober.

00:54:54.90
Bill
okay

00:55:05.59
Andrew
You know, that's a beautiful story.

00:55:05.72
Bill
here

00:55:07.59
Andrew
that that yeah and And it it just it it furthers my belief in this.

00:55:07.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:08.14
Bill
it's

00:55:12.92
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:55:13.23
Andrew
because

00:55:14.10
Bill
Right.

00:55:14.46
Andrew
Because when you're that far down, that's ah that's fantastic stuff.

00:55:18.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:55:20.92
Andrew
Because, yeah um death creeps in That's the other thing I've learned in my um maturing age.

00:55:25.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:29.69
Mike
Right.

00:55:31.00
Andrew
Death creeps in with this disease, man.

00:55:33.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:33.60
Andrew
um

00:55:33.79
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:55:35.19
Andrew
Real quick. Well, I mean, you know.

00:55:36.63
Bill
So when so when when I went into into detox, so again, I was basically your age that you are now is 41. And I went in, up you know, and I say taken to or whatever.

00:55:42.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:46.30
Bill
and i And I was it wasn't by choice. It was kind of, ah you know, like a desperation move on my part. But anyhow, it doesn't matter. I didn't go skipping into into detox and then skipping into the the Ed Keating Center in Cleveland.

00:55:53.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:57.26
Bill
Um, but so I went into detox and I was, uh, my blood alcohol level was 0.44 when I went in and I was conscious and cognizant and having conversations and a whole bit.

00:55:57.24
Mike
this is

00:56:06.72
Bill
My sister ah took me in and after all said and done, you want to talk about liver things. My liver was all fucked up. I i don't even remember. I went in on a Saturday. I remember nothing for the first three days because whatever they were doing to me to bring me off of this shit, basically blacked me out for like three days.

00:56:21.82
Bill
um Couldn't walk right away after the, you know, the first couple of days after I came out of it. Cause again, whatever was going on. so i could out of this whole thing and I'm being discharged from detox. Our mom's sitting there and our sister. And this doctor is like, so, you know, ah blah, blah, blah, and your liver levels and this and that, and you're one of the worst cases we've seen, and, you know, this and that.

00:56:40.12
Bill
And I'm like, uh-huh, uh-huh. You know, i'm still, I'm like, I'm trying to appease the crowd type of thing. I'm i'm scared, you know, because of what just happened, but I'm not i'm not convinced yet.

00:56:44.68
Andrew
Right.

00:56:48.97
Bill
I'm i' not bought into this whole goddamn game yet.

00:56:51.22
Andrew
Yep.

00:56:51.77
Bill
You know, so um then he says to me, he's like, ah he goes, you know, ah asking me again how much I've been drinking. So when I went into detox and everything I kept telling everyone was I was drinking four or five beers a day because two to three sounded ridiculous.

00:57:06.24
Bill
OK, so I said four to five.

00:57:06.30
Andrew
Yep.

00:57:07.97
Bill
But again, i went into I went into detox with a blood alcohol level of point four four. Right. So I start this whole game with this doctor again. And finally, he's like, he goes, listen.

00:57:18.17
Bill
He goes, enough. He goes, I don't care. He goes, you can tell me anything you want. He goes, I don't care if you've been drinking four or five or 70 or whatever he said. He goes, here's the bottom line.

00:57:28.58
Bill
He goes, if you continue doing what you're doing, he goes, you're going to be dead in a matter of weeks. Our mom's crying. Our sister's crying. And he's like, I'm not talking about months.

00:57:38.90
Bill
He goes, I'm talking about weeks. Literally, months.

00:57:41.43
Andrew
Yep.

00:57:41.94
Bill
two, three weeks. He goes, you will be dead. Okay. So he goes, you can continue with your four to five or your two to three or whatever you want to do. But he said, you're going to die.

00:57:53.02
Bill
You know? So he said, just kind of like, kind of like, go ahead.

00:57:54.02
Andrew
Yep.

00:57:55.90
Bill
Fuck you, buddy. Leave, get out of here. You know?

00:57:57.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:58.81
Bill
And, and then there was a, like a counselor in there. I forgot that this one, I don't even remember. I've told you this, Mike, this, like like this counselor lady was in there too. So there was four, you know, obviously the doctor, her, and then the three of us. And then she's like, she gets me one of these things like, so what are you, you know, what what are you going to do, you know, going forward whatever? And I mean, I already set up in the Keating Center. I said, going to go out there and I'm going to do, you know, do this, this, and this. And she's like, she's like, it's, you realize it's not just not that easy for you just to go along with everything. And in my head, I'm like, like, bitch, you just asked me a question.

00:58:28.57
Mike
who

00:58:28.73
Bill
you what the fuck do you want me to say? You know, and I'm like, I know it's not that fucking easy because here's the other. Here's the other thing, Andrew. My dad um was a member of this program of Alcoholics and Automs. He died like a month before I got sober, but died for 29 years. I knew enough about this shit to make me dangerous is really what it came down to. um So in my head, I'm like, I know what I'm talking about.

00:58:47.46
Bill
So I go into the fucking Keating Center thinking I'm, um you know, I'm all that in four or five bags of chips. I'm not even just a bag of chips.

00:58:53.46
Andrew
Yeah.

00:58:53.58
Bill
I've got to get a fucking world by the fucking balls, you know, but I didn't know fucking shit, you know, but the the situation was is that, you know, I hadn't gotten honest with myself. Same thing that you were talking about, you know, death creeping in and I'm still at that point. I still.

00:59:08.60
Bill
How can how can I even say that? You know, I'm ah still really not convinced that this is what I have to do when I wasn't. It took me a good, so you know, seven, eight, nine months before, you know, everything completely clicked while I was out there.

00:59:17.18
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:19.88
Bill
I'm fucking angry. I'm this and that. I'm um I'm on the verge. I literally not even knowing it. so I'm on the verge of relapse for probably eight or nine months and I don't even fucking know it.

00:59:28.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:29.39
Bill
You know, and, uh, and I'm doing all the things I'm following people. I'm, I'm following the crowd. I'm, I'm going to meetings. I'm saying all the right things, but I didn't, I really wasn't living ah the right life, you know?

00:59:42.97
Bill
So there's more to this thing than just, than just getting in there. And like, you know, we always hear more than just putting the the plug in the jug, more than just changing your breath, you know, more than just all of that stuff.

00:59:51.90
Andrew
Oh my God, it's tip of the iceberg. Yeah, I mean...

00:59:55.00
Bill
Oh, I know. And it's just, you got, there's so much work you got to do. And if we know people and I'm sure you do now, you've, you know you've been around this thing long enough, even everything you've just been talking about, you know, people that are, that are, are not drinking anymore, but they're fucking miserable, you know, cause they're not doing anything else.

01:00:08.02
Andrew
Exactly.

01:00:09.35
Bill
Right.

01:00:10.51
Andrew
Yep, yep. And it's it's it's tough because...

01:00:12.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:16.02
Andrew
So that's one thing that I've learned is the mind is so tricky and I find it really fascinating.

01:00:22.68
Bill
Yeah. Right.

01:00:24.02
Andrew
And we i won't geek out and go down my ah quantum physics route, but um but i i I just find the stuff fascinating because the mind can be trained.

01:00:39.26
Andrew
Right.

01:00:40.00
Bill
Right.

01:00:40.31
Andrew
you know and and And that's what the Stoics believe. you know They didn't believe that Stoicism is theory, it's training. right

01:00:49.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:49.94
Andrew
And so that was kind of why Marcus Aurelius wrote Meditations. They were his own writings to himself that he'd read over and over throughout all the shit that he was going through. And so, um yeah. like And you know one really kind of changed my world.

01:01:10.20
Andrew
And I'll drop it right here. But um I think about this every day. Anytime something's really not. And it brings me back for some reason. But mar and this is a Marcus Aurelius.

01:01:22.58
Andrew
Consider yourself dead. You've lived your life. Now take what's left and live it properly.

01:01:30.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:31.38
Andrew
Like it's simple.

01:01:31.71
Bill
Eh?

01:01:33.02
Andrew
That's that's all it is.

01:01:33.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:35.16
Andrew
So simple yet so. Oh my God. like I don't know. it It fires me up, and I'm a geek for that stuff. But you know what?

01:01:44.92
Bill
ha

01:01:45.57
Andrew
It works, and everyone, there's no silver bullet, right? Everyone has their own ways. But the one thing that I'm glad is that I had the discipline just to know that I wasn't the right person to handle this and that I needed help.

01:01:51.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:02.97
Mike
yeah Absolutely.

01:02:03.03
Andrew
You know, because because that's opened up this whole world.

01:02:04.16
Bill
Right.

01:02:07.03
Andrew
And now, even more so, now that I'm at a, you know, and I'm trying to promote another man's treasure, um you know, it It was hard at first because i i I put out a launch video essentially saying I've been in the closet for the last 20 years and yeah, I'm an alcoholic.

01:02:29.06
Mike
hmm.

01:02:29.30
Andrew
um Then I blasted that to all friends and family and and you know, it's a breath of fresh air not to have to hide anymore.

01:02:41.27
Mike
Mm

01:02:41.65
Bill
Right.

01:02:41.91
Andrew
You know, like yeah i can live my life and Yeah, I have my shitty path. I done did things, you know, good times and not so innocent crimes, you know.

01:02:50.65
Mike
right

01:02:54.34
Andrew
um ah and we We all have our stories, but the past is the past. And, you know, you you you deal with that through the 12 steps. and um And now, I mean, like I said, you know, pink balloon. And i know I know it could pop. any you know and i But whatever...

01:03:17.66
Andrew
I'm scared to death to go back to that man that I

01:03:21.02
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:22.21
Andrew
assassinated violently and and but i know that he's still there and he's he's he's doing push-ups and i just like to kind of blow him a kiss and mouth fuck you you know uh but but neither here nor there it's it's always it's always gonna kind of be that struggle and that training of your mind right because we have what are called triggers too you know and

01:03:22.78
Mike
That's good. That's good.

01:03:23.86
Bill
yeah

01:03:35.22
Mike
Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely.

01:03:50.30
Mike
yeah we we have, yeah, we, we don't like that word because, well, no, because ah there's nothing wrong with it, but I mean, we we believe that no, no, no.

01:03:53.24
Bill
hey

01:03:54.97
Andrew
Oh, yeah.

01:03:55.03
Bill
No, no, no. There's nothing wrong with it. Yeah. see Yeah.

01:04:00.25
Andrew
I don't want to set anybody off. yeah

01:04:02.68
Bill
No, no, no, no, no.

01:04:02.88
Mike
why

01:04:03.64
Bill
no

01:04:04.15
Mike
But we we just um every every description of a trigger that I have ever heard is an excuse.

01:04:12.50
Andrew
True that.

01:04:12.56
Mike
It's an. Yeah, right. I have. I was triggered. no you convinced yourself. Talk about the mind. You convinced yourself that this was a reason to go back out. yeah That's all a fucking trigger is.

01:04:23.15
Andrew
True... Absolutely.

01:04:25.43
Mike
Yeah, you you allowed something from the outside to get into you that you used as an excuse to go back out.

01:04:25.56
Andrew
absolutely

01:04:34.36
Mike
That's a fucking trigger. That's all it is. Yeah, no, and that's why we don't like the word because there's nothing that can fucking trigger me. There is no situation that's going you know, unless I allow it to.

01:04:42.70
Bill
Right.

01:04:46.87
Mike
That's my choice. See, I'm free today. i have choices today. One of the choices I have is to allow something outside of me to convince me that I can fucking go drink again. I can go use again. i can't. Right. So that's a trigger.

01:05:02.46
Mike
It's an excuse.

01:05:02.55
Andrew
Right.

01:05:03.95
Bill
Right.

01:05:04.12
Andrew
Right.

01:05:04.47
Bill
And, you know, the and the other thing, Andrew, and first of all, you're you're never going to set us off. You can talk about anything you want on here.

01:05:08.13
Mike
Now.

01:05:09.43
Bill
And, you know, people using the the trigger as ah as a word or whatever, you can have triggers everyone else because we don't believe in them. But the the only other problem is, is that I think people people use the word incorrectly.

01:05:22.42
Bill
Like Mike just said, it is.

01:05:22.68
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:05:24.10
Bill
The flat out thing, it's an excuse. People say that, oh, you know, like ah ah podcast episodes all the time, they'll they'll start off their podcast episode with, OK, we've got a couple of trigger warnings here.

01:05:34.34
Bill
We're going to talk about this, this, this. And we're like, what the fuck, man? You know, first of all, if they're talking about something that you don't like, turn the goddamn thing off. That's number one.

01:05:41.99
Andrew
Right.

01:05:42.51
Bill
You know, and I don't know. I mean, anything, to the fact that I like pickles, maybe somebody, you know, somebody's boyfriend choked, you know, got choked with a goddamn fucking pickle, you know, so the pickle is a thing that almost killed this person.

01:05:54.99
Bill
So I can't talk about fucking pickles, you know.

01:05:57.44
Andrew
Yep.

01:05:57.66
Bill
you know so But people use it as a crutch, and literally it's all it is is an excuse. People talk about it all the time. you know It's like, oh, I can't go here because it'll trigger me. No, no, no that's you You can't go because you shouldn't be there.

01:06:09.06
Bill
i don't go hang out i don't I don't hang on the bar, not because a bar triggers me or makes me want to drink.

01:06:09.45
Andrew
Right.

01:06:14.55
Bill
I have no fucking at business being in a bar anymore. Now, Mike will go to a bar because he goes to see the music.

01:06:17.51
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

01:06:19.75
Bill
He goes for the event, not the party. We talked about that last week.

01:06:22.65
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:23.11
Bill
That's a different story. But... I'm not going to walk into a bar on a Tuesday afternoon to go grab a burger. You know, I can go someplace else and grab a goddamn hamburger.

01:06:31.12
Andrew
Right.

01:06:31.49
Bill
if I mean, if I'm with family or something like that and we they want to go to, hey, they got great food at this bar, let's go sit at the table and have have some food. I'll go with a group. No problem like that.

01:06:39.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:40.73
Bill
But the thing of it is, it's just that's the point. It's ah it's you know it's ah it's an excuse and it's ah it's a it's a word that people, I think, overuse and use it as a as a crutch, you know, but yeah.

01:06:51.77
Andrew
Yeah, I agree. i mean, hey, it's the mind um that perceives these things as, yeah, the T word, if you will.

01:06:56.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:01.59
Mike
Right. And I don't know about you, but my mind lies to me all the fucking time.

01:07:05.69
Andrew
Oh, my God. i can't I can't trust it as far as I can throw Right.

01:07:09.85
Mike
Right. Exactly. That's why we need other people. That's why our lives are fucking unmanageable. We need something larger than ourselves to manage it. Period.

01:07:19.73
Andrew
Right.

01:07:20.22
Bill
Well, and plus, i'm ah I'm a fucking egotist, man. i don't want I don't want to give something else the power over me, and that's what a trigger does.

01:07:25.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:25.82
Bill
So fuck these triggers, man. If I'm going to fuck up my life, I'm going to be a man and do it myself.

01:07:30.52
Andrew
Right.

01:07:30.74
Bill
But but anyhow, so back to your – let's go back to your you know your thing, your your whole business opportunity or business venture.

01:07:30.91
Mike
Hehehehehe.

01:07:31.60
Andrew
Right, right.

01:07:39.38
Bill
Um, tell us about it. Walk us through that top to bottom. How did you get the idea? How did you start? Where are you at with it? What's your vision for it? Whatever you want to talk about with that. Let's, let's promote that.

01:07:49.73
Bill
And I will, I've got your Instagram already in the, uh, description. I'll have that description for the podcast, but is there any other link? do you have a website or, or anything like the else that I could put on there?

01:08:00.18
Andrew
yeah yeah so it's the website is another man's treasure.co.co

01:08:08.31
Bill
Oh, it is. Oh.

01:08:09.28
Andrew
minus the m so another man's treasure.co yo ho yo ho another man's treasure.co yeah so that's the website is uh so it brings you to the website um

01:08:15.48
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

01:08:16.85
Bill
So it's the same as your it it's your it's your Instagram handle is what it is.

01:08:23.77
Bill
Oh.

01:08:26.62
Andrew
And yeah, so it's an online marketplace where half of every sale goes to the seller's choice of charity. And then another cord quarter goes, 25% goes in the seller's pocket.

01:08:41.43
Andrew
And then the final quarter to the ship to another man's treasure because we refurbish, verify, and ship everything, which by the way, shipping is free.

01:08:53.17
Andrew
So i basically, and and for every sale, both buyer and seller, like I said at the beginning, receive a a ah doubloon laser inscribed with the charity chosen and the amount donated.

01:08:53.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:53.75
Bill
Nice.

01:08:53.72
Mike
hey

01:09:05.98
Bill
Right. right

01:09:08.25
Andrew
So, um you know, at the end of the day, yeah, I got the idea because i got turned on to the Facebook marketplace when I was struggling with trying to ah go through recovery.

01:09:21.82
Andrew
And, you know,

01:09:22.04
Mike
Right. A little retail therapy. Nice.

01:09:24.12
Andrew
Oh my God.

01:09:24.22
Bill
Right.

01:09:25.04
Andrew
Did I buy the photo?

01:09:25.43
Mike
Sure. It is. Mm-hmm.

01:09:26.60
Andrew
I mean, Jesus, I got whips.

01:09:26.75
Mike
Right.

01:09:28.92
Andrew
I got, I, I, I, bought, uh, just a lot of irresponsible things, but, um,

01:09:31.13
Mike
Right.

01:09:36.22
Mike
sure

01:09:38.30
Andrew
Hey, it's all part of the process, right?

01:09:40.34
Mike
it is

01:09:41.05
Andrew
but but But I just, it it looking at that scene, you know, the used goods marketplace, it's it's the Wild West, man, you know, and and people are getting ripped off.

01:09:50.30
Mike
right yeah

01:09:55.62
Andrew
I got ripped off so many times because I bought, you know, I became a sneakerhead because, yeah, my first sponsor and shit, you know, i i wanted to wear them in the right direction.

01:10:07.18
Andrew
and

01:10:08.12
Mike
Right.

01:10:08.70
Andrew
and all this fun stuff so i um i really kind of became a guru to you know ah between other yeah online poshmark mercari those types of sites and i was just like hey let's put this money to good use and because that combined with my understanding of service and how magical that is

01:10:22.04
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:10:27.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:34.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:34.42
Andrew
and how that gave me the belief in God essentially, you know, and cause that's all part of my belief in God.

01:10:34.48
Bill
Right.

01:10:39.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:42.65
Andrew
You know, I think there's something there with a connection.

01:10:42.78
Mike
Right.

01:10:46.55
Andrew
Um, you know, my, my God is essentially, you know, look in a mirror and then turn that mirror around at a crowd.

01:10:46.76
Mike
Yeah. Doing its work.

01:10:55.80
Mike
Right.

01:10:55.86
Andrew
Um, you know, that's a huge part of it. So, um, and and And so i i thought, well, this money could be going to good.

01:11:08.07
Andrew
And i realized how magical that connection is with other people in sobriety and recovery and how crucial that is.

01:11:17.14
Bill
Right.

01:11:18.66
Andrew
And imagine if we could just hang out all day and work together. So recovering treasures by recovering people became an idea. And I...

01:11:30.33
Andrew
i um I i i have came out with a business model that i felt I still feel. I've been trying to poke a hole in this business model for a long for over a year, and I can't.

01:11:45.18
Mike
Right?

01:11:46.00
Andrew
i i have I truly believe that great things can happen, and the mission is all goodwill and growth because that's what it's all about with our program, right?

01:11:46.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:58.07
Mike
Absolutely.

01:11:58.56
Bill
Right.

01:11:58.73
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:59.27
Andrew
With our world, if we're not growing, we're dying. you know, um, I, you, you have to, you have to strengthen your mind and that would just be a magical, magical place to me.

01:12:03.53
Bill
Yeah. Yep.

01:12:15.22
Andrew
Um, you know, where, where, you know, you don't have to worry about people going to the bar after work.

01:12:15.29
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:12:22.38
Andrew
And anyway, so, um, So that's kind of the vision and in and being able to fix things in the community.

01:12:22.84
Mike
Right.

01:12:30.46
Andrew
I mean, that the vision goes deeper than where it's at right now because the marketplace isn't even open, actually. If you go to the website, it'll say marketplace opening soon because...

01:12:42.62
Andrew
I just launched it five months ago. um And and so so I've learned a lot. You know, this is my first marketplace.

01:12:53.59
Andrew
But, um and not for nothing, the one flex I will, because, you know, I'm just i'm i'm just another guy.

01:12:53.88
Bill
ah

01:13:02.44
Andrew
i'm not, you know, nothing really special about me other than the fact that I got to, you know, turn myself around as of now from this disease I'm doing today.

01:13:11.84
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Today.

01:13:15.48
Bill
Right, today, yeah.

01:13:15.80
Mike
so all It's all any of us have is today.

01:13:16.31
Andrew
I'm today I'm here. Exactly.

01:13:18.32
Mike
Yep.

01:13:18.98
Andrew
And, but, um, but yeah, I, I just, I, I want to, um, be able to give back and, and, and, um,

01:13:31.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:33.72
Andrew
And yeah, so so um I'm collecting treasures right now. If you go to the website you and you go to the sell page, it's a quick treasure form and just a couple pictures and you hold on to the item until it sells.

01:13:49.18
Andrew
um Once it sells, then we notify you and and we send you a label and you just put it in a box and drop it at your local shipping center.

01:13:49.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:59.99
Andrew
So So I made it really simple too.

01:14:03.31
Bill
Right.

01:14:04.23
Andrew
Snap, submit, ship is my kind of tagline or, um you know, i don't know, marketing scheme or marketing for that.

01:14:11.64
Mike
Sure.

01:14:11.93
Bill
Right.

01:14:13.40
Mike
sure

01:14:15.41
Bill
It's a tagline.

01:14:15.58
Andrew
But

01:14:17.17
Bill
That works.

01:14:17.21
Andrew
but But listen, and the one thing I am proud of, I actually built that website myself. I'm no egghead, you know. um And it took me a long time, but you know what?

01:14:25.98
Mike
it's

01:14:27.97
Andrew
It was very therapeutic for me. Again, i think that for me, I just needed to stay busy and grow my mind. Yeah.

01:14:37.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:38.14
Andrew
I think in in doing that, along came my love for Stoicism and stuff. and

01:14:48.14
Mike
Right.

01:14:48.25
Andrew
It just becomes the recipe right that we that seems to work right now. So I'm going to keep doing it. you know and that Amen, right?

01:14:55.86
Mike
Yeah, me too.

01:14:58.34
Andrew
And that's that's really it but i This is my new passion. i you know I'm i'm um i'm still working as a salesman, ah but um trying to gain a following here and we're collecting treasures.

01:15:09.56
Mike
Sure.

01:15:15.07
Andrew
and

01:15:15.42
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:16.33
Andrew
I'm excited to get the marketplace up and running because at the end of the day, we can do a lot of good with what we have in our houses.

01:15:24.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:26.28
Bill
Right.

01:15:26.42
Mike
Absolutely.

01:15:26.56
Andrew
It's ah in in the um the one so it's anything anything that would sell for over two hundred dollars

01:15:35.19
Mike
and Okay.

01:15:36.09
Andrew
Yeah, because shipping and I'm fully overly transparent on my site and everything.

01:15:42.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:42.69
Andrew
Shipping is taken from a small portion of the of the charity.

01:15:48.54
Mike
Right.

01:15:48.54
Andrew
um So that neither buyer nor seller need to pay out of pocket or pay out pocket like, you know, with competition.

01:15:55.59
Mike
Great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

01:15:56.98
Andrew
So, so yeah.

01:15:57.66
Mike
So, okay.

01:15:58.50
Andrew
um So if you've ever bought anything for over $300, that's not furniture, I'd love to hear about it.

01:16:04.96
Mike
Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. i Okay. So, I mean, I've done some online stuff, actually. I just got a T-shirt the other day off of Marketplace.

01:16:14.18
Bill
Right.

01:16:14.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:15.06
Bill
right

01:16:15.77
Mike
Yeah, you know, ah and I've got some friends who actually her full-time business is she's got an eBay store and she buys sells. They go to estate sales and all that good stuff.

01:16:24.86
Andrew
Okay.

01:16:26.25
Mike
And that's what she does for a living now. um And I love that's kind of why I was intrigued by your story. And um so I could relate to that. And then, you know, of course, the charity part and everything.

01:16:36.92
Mike
This is great. So, okay. So let's say I've got Bill, let's say I've got something in my house.

01:16:44.31
Bill
you you probably You probably don't. you pray you There's nothing, nothing, nothing in there.

01:16:46.58
Mike
Yeah, right. There's nothing in my house right now.

01:16:48.02
Andrew
yeah

01:16:48.98
Bill
a

01:16:49.41
Mike
I've got, I've got, I've, my house is a museum. When people come to see them, they really are a scream.

01:16:52.38
Bill
hey

01:16:54.71
Mike
em Um, mm-hmm.

01:16:55.41
Bill
We're going to, we're actually, we're literally going to, we talked about this and we keep talking about every time things like this come up, we need to go through Mike's house with a video camera and then ah we we don't do video, but we but we'll do a video episode that time just walk through his fucking house and show all of his shit.

01:17:02.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:09.69
Bill
He's he's not a hoarder.

01:17:10.62
Mike
Yes. No.

01:17:11.95
Bill
He's just got a lot of fucking shit and it's all cool.

01:17:14.08
Mike
Yep.

01:17:15.16
Bill
You know?

01:17:15.33
Mike
Yep.

01:17:15.35
Andrew
I can imagine.

01:17:15.56
Bill
Okay. Oh, it's crazy.

01:17:16.95
Andrew
i

01:17:18.01
Bill
It's crazy. But anyhow, go on, go on, Mike.

01:17:19.35
Andrew
That's awesome.

01:17:20.17
Bill
So and so if you, were if air quotes,

01:17:21.14
Mike
So anyway, so have an item, right?

01:17:23.19
Bill
hey

01:17:24.14
Mike
Okay, I have this item that's worth $200 or more, um and I want to list it on your site. So I go to the site, which is...

01:17:35.45
Andrew
Another man's treasure.co.

01:17:37.69
Mike
Okay, I go there, I click on, and um it's going to give me some instructions. I'm going to take some pictures. I'm going to load them up, right, correct? And then then what happens?

01:17:49.37
Andrew
So then, ah so you so you fill out the treasure form, which you and include your pictures in.

01:17:56.66
Mike
Sure.

01:17:56.76
Andrew
And then um once the, so you're going to hold on to your item, you receive an email once the marketplace opens with fair market value.

01:18:09.47
Andrew
essentially. um And then you also, i didn't mention, you can opt for the captain's choice in the treasure form, which which puts 75% to the charity.

01:18:19.48
Bill
wo

01:18:24.54
Andrew
So it takes your and lets the charity.

01:18:24.82
Mike
Okay.

01:18:24.98
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:18:29.42
Mike
Gotcha.

01:18:29.53
Andrew
um yeah so

01:18:30.33
Bill
Okay.

01:18:30.39
Mike
So you just want to, yeah. So, right. So you're going to basically just donate it.

01:18:34.75
Bill
Donate it. Right.

01:18:35.32
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's cool. No, that's good.

01:18:37.98
Andrew
Yep. Yeah. and then and And so I send fair market value and then

01:18:44.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:45.30
Andrew
ah once it sells, you're notified with the shipping label.

01:18:49.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:50.99
Andrew
We just ask you to um chip it to us we verify if it needs verification um uh and then refurbish i mean it's going to be clean when you know that's the other thing i mean i i received i got stories guys i don't want to get into them but

01:18:58.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:04.79
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:19:10.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:11.26
Bill
hey

01:19:11.83
Andrew
I got stories where I got burned and I got screwed over so many times.

01:19:16.82
Mike
Right.

01:19:16.87
Andrew
Anyway, so so will we refurbish and verify um and then so ship it to the end yeah to the buyer. And then both buyer and seller receive commemorative ah doubloons in the mail um for their good deed.

01:19:25.34
Mike
Right.

01:19:31.67
Mike
Nice.

01:19:33.85
Andrew
Yeah. And you should see that.

01:19:34.55
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:36.01
Andrew
So the doubloon itself, I'm very proud of the doubloon. Because I went through so many gold coin commemorative coins to get the right sound.

01:19:41.18
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:47.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:49.62
Andrew
So I called the sound the reminder because it reminds me that I can make a difference.

01:19:53.42
Mike
Mm. All right.

01:19:55.54
Andrew
Right. um in the chest that goes in i had a um uh naming contest if you will um then it was it was uh deemed the chest of echoes because of the reminder

01:20:11.27
Mike
Nice.

01:20:12.82
Bill
nice

01:20:12.79
Andrew
um and and and a a friend got a pair of uh mocha um sneakers very nice sneakers that i have i i didn't even mention the sneakers but i have very nice sneakers and hundreds of them that i'm donating to the first sellers um more details on on the website um but i uh

01:20:12.85
Mike
ice

01:20:31.22
Mike
Nice.

01:20:31.86
Bill
Right.

01:20:34.83
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:37.50
Andrew
um just as ah as a thank you for believing in this in this idea, because that's all I need right now is you know belief. And and ah like I said, it's the mission is just to give good give people a reason to feel good about yourself again.

01:20:58.10
Andrew
you know As bad as your, whatever, how however bad your day is or whatever you're going through, You're never sad when you're helping somebody else, you know?

01:21:09.62
Mike
Exactly.

01:21:10.16
Bill
Right, right.

01:21:11.39
Andrew
And, and so that's therapeutic and that saved my life and, you know, so many others. And, and so that's, it's a passion and Hey, I'm all about growth and that's, that's what I'm trying to do, you know, um, both personally and, and through this, um, the ship of mine.

01:21:32.77
Mike
Cool. Cool.

01:21:33.05
Bill
So what if what if somebody has like ah if somebody has an item and they're not sure what it's worth, do you write you recommend probably they Google it just to get a rough idea of what it might be worth. should they Should they send you a picture and then say, hey, is this does this line up with what you're looking for type of thing?

01:21:42.17
Andrew
So

01:21:46.81
Bill
I mean, if that's if that's a question mark.

01:21:49.30
Mike
That's

01:21:49.97
Andrew
so the treasure form itself takes less than a minute to fill out. It's very basic. So if you have a question on it, I mean, it's just, you know, the item name, description, and then the pictures and, you know, chick clicking on captain's choice, but then your address.

01:21:56.80
Bill
Okay.

01:22:04.85
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:22:09.99
Andrew
So it's it's very, i've I've made it very simple. um the the whole process.

01:22:14.37
Mike
that's good

01:22:15.92
Andrew
So you can fill out a treasure form in a minute if you have the pictures on your phone. So ideally, you know, if I'm talking to somebody that's interested, walk around your house, snap photos of things that you think that you could get $200 or more of, and then go to the treasure form and just fill out a treasure form on the sell page and of another man's treasure.co uh it just takes a brief minute or two per treasure and then we'll get back to you whether um it's something that we'd want or not so or i mean you can do the research yourself but at the end of the day that threshold two hundred dollars or more so it's it's you know um

01:22:21.27
Bill
Right.

01:22:47.25
Bill
Okay.

01:22:47.23
Mike
Right.

01:22:53.27
Bill
Sure.

01:22:53.48
Mike
Cool.

01:22:53.55
Bill
Okay.

01:23:05.37
Andrew
luxury items and such really, but anything electronics, fashion bags, you know, um, uh, anything other than furniture that,

01:23:07.51
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:07.66
Bill
Right.

01:23:12.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:19.12
Andrew
wood collectibles, you know, yeah. I've been playing the real the estate sale game too, you know.

01:23:21.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:25.66
Mike
Right.

01:23:25.85
Bill
Right.

01:23:26.20
Andrew
um but But I'm excited because, yeah, once the marketplace opens, um you know, i think that in you choose your charity.

01:23:37.30
Andrew
Choose whatever you are you're passionate about.

01:23:37.72
Mike
Right.

01:23:39.78
Andrew
As long as it's a nonprofit that's been in business for over a year and I have...

01:23:41.72
Mike
Right.

01:23:45.53
Andrew
um You know, I'll of course be vetting, but they'll receive a check because of your Rolex.

01:23:49.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:52.06
Andrew
And they'll even, Hey, oh if it's to fix the toilet, I'll put in a note with that check. You know, I can't promise anything, but um that's, that's the vision.

01:23:58.37
Mike
Yeah. Cool. yeah

01:24:03.29
Bill
Right. Well, and and here's the other thing, too. And and we we mentioned this ah a lot and we're always be remiss if we didn't mention it. But we've had people on here that, you know, have some sort of thing they're working on.

01:24:14.74
Bill
They wrote a book, whatever the case is, or they're working on something like you're doing. So that I obviously but to make it clear for you that, you know, we'll have all of the the links in there, obviously in the description and blah, blah, blah.

01:24:26.22
Bill
But once the, once the marketplace opens, ah let us know. I mean, if you want us to um read a promo on on ah on an episode, post up up on Instagram, whatever you need from us, because we've done that for a lot of people and where we offer it to everyone that that comes on.

01:24:39.65
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:24:41.27
Andrew
I appreciate that.

01:24:44.00
Bill
Because the thing of it is we, the cool part about this, this whole podcast thing is that, We get to, obviously, you know Mike and I get to shoot the shit, but we get to meet interesting people. We get to hear wonderful stories.

01:24:55.38
Bill
And like we were talking about just a you know a couple of weeks ago is that you know we get to to ah help showcase people that were fuck-ups like us and are now doing good things with their lives.

01:25:04.62
Andrew
Right.

01:25:06.38
Bill
you know They're out there doing good shit.

01:25:06.90
Mike
hey

01:25:08.14
Bill
And you know it' ah what ah what a joy it is to say that, hey, look at this fuck-up over here. Listen to his story and look what he's doing now.

01:25:17.21
Andrew
Right?

01:25:17.46
Bill
you know

01:25:18.01
Andrew
isn't it It's beautiful.

01:25:19.96
Mike
Yes.

01:25:20.16
Bill
That's great.

01:25:20.28
Andrew
Yeah,

01:25:20.79
Mike
he

01:25:21.55
Bill
It's fucking great. So, yeah, we get to we get a lot of, it's it's a lot of fun for us. But I'm serious about that. when As things ah open up, you know, just ah all you got to do shoot us an email, whatever you want. If you want us to, again, read something, pull you know, make up an ad, record, whatever you want us to do, well we're more than happy to to do it.

01:25:37.32
Andrew
I appreciate it. I appreciate It's going to be exciting once it does because, yeah, I... um i have ah I have high hopes for the the business, but more so for...

01:25:50.98
Andrew
connecting connection that's what I crave you know and that's what i I want to help the next guy you know hey Google says that one out of ten Americans are inflicted with this you know and and I was scared for way too long and just quiet and so I don i don't want to make alcoholism acceptable but I want to make it

01:25:51.78
Mike
Yeah. Mm hmm.

01:25:52.84
Bill
Right.

01:25:54.42
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:04.68
Mike
Right.

01:26:08.58
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

01:26:15.66
Andrew
acceptable to talk about, you know what mean?

01:26:17.24
Mike
Right.

01:26:18.46
Andrew
um Because that's that's what I've learned, and talking is, yeah, um that's that's the medicine.

01:26:26.45
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.

01:26:28.98
Andrew
So anyway.

01:26:29.08
Bill
Well, and there's there's been such a huge, and you know, again, Mike and I talk about it all the time on here, definitely in the last 10 years, but literally, I mean, since we've gotten sober, you figure from 2010 until now, um I mean, neither one of us knew much about anything outside of Alcoholics Anonymous. Not that we were closed-minded to it we just didn't know.

01:26:47.99
Bill
Some of the stuff didn't exist. Some of these ways that people are getting sober and staying sober didn't exist. Some of these programs out there, these ventures, these these things like that that you're doing and a lot of people that we've talked to are doing, and the conversations that are going on out there.

01:26:53.28
Andrew
Yeah,

01:27:02.38
Bill
i mean, there's what was it? What did that article I Was that Jim Beam that shut down?

01:27:06.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:07.42
Bill
Yeah, so and and they shut down.

01:27:07.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:09.22
Bill
A lot of it was on tariffs and stuff like that.

01:27:10.01
Andrew
because of me.

01:27:11.88
Bill
Yeah.

01:27:12.28
Mike
a

01:27:12.80
Bill
But they they shut down based on on the tariffs. But the whole point, you know the that booze wasn't being shipped out of the country anymore. They lost a portion of their market share. And then these other companies like um like Guinness, for instance, Guinness has a whole factory now um you know where they started off with this little room in the corner of their factory where they started you know toying around with non-alcoholic beer.

01:27:34.78
Bill
And now they have a whole goddamn factory, you know, and I haven't been in a liquor store in a long time. I should just do it out of research sometime, just in the grocery store, go and look at the non-alcoholic, you know, section or non-alcoholic wine or beer, whatever it is.

01:27:42.62
Mike
Sure.

01:27:49.20
Bill
My understanding is is there there's aisles of these of these, you know, things now. Well, the the award that we got nominated for, that Sands Bar, they're all about that.

01:27:56.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:58.24
Bill
It's a non-alcoholic bar. They got this whole community about that. They've been doing it for a number of years, you know. So there's so much more, like you said, connection and conversation is and community.

01:28:09.80
Bill
You know, all these three things are happening out there now. And it's it's really fucking cool because, um I don't know, it's not as big of a deal anymore to to...

01:28:18.97
Andrew
Exactly.

01:28:19.56
Bill
To be an alcoholic, there's a lot of people out there that don't like the word. They think it's outdated, whatever the case is. I don't give a fuck what you want to call yourself. you know if you want to call your disease the green monster, it doesn't matter to me.

01:28:30.16
Bill
I know what I am and I know what I got to do to to not be active in what what I used to do. But it's such an easier conversation in the ah people use the word stigma and I agree with it.

01:28:41.82
Bill
You know, the stigma is being listed lifted. It's not as bad of ah and a big of a deal anymore. And people are just living alcohol-free lives these days without having to go through the shit that all three of us went through, you know, which is crazy.

01:28:53.62
Andrew
True that.

01:28:53.82
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:28:54.71
Andrew
True that.

01:28:54.93
Bill
Right.

01:28:55.35
Andrew
Absolutely. You know, and, and, and, well, we're evolving, right? And, and, and, and thank God for it because that's, I mean, and again, you know, every, to each their own.

01:29:00.12
Bill
Right.

01:29:08.28
Bill
Right.

01:29:08.54
Andrew
If you have this disease, then you can have a couple drinks and be fine.

01:29:11.61
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:13.21
Bill
Right.

01:29:14.51
Mike
Weirdos.

01:29:14.55
Andrew
not me, you know, I, I know that, and that's all part of acceptance and all the, all the, all the, all the process, but yeah, I'm just grateful.

01:29:20.42
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Mm-hmm.

01:29:21.43
Bill
Right.

01:29:25.66
Andrew
So grateful and and grateful to, I, you know, i look at everything in life as a miracle now, you know, it, it's just a, it's a different lens, completely different lens on life, you know, and, and, um,

01:29:39.81
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:29:44.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:44.95
Andrew
And yeah, yeah, I, I, I, and I dig, i dig what you guys are doing.

01:29:45.78
Mike
it Yep.

01:29:51.47
Andrew
And to your point, Bill, it, it, it's changed the game where, you know, you guys and different people speaking out to, you know, help others.

01:30:02.34
Andrew
And, and that's the magic.

01:30:02.62
Mike
is it

01:30:03.37
Bill
Right.

01:30:06.33
Andrew
That's the magic right there.

01:30:06.47
Bill
Yeah.

01:30:07.65
Andrew
So I, I love what you guys are doing and thank you again for having me on.

01:30:08.12
Mike
it is

01:30:11.96
Bill
No, not at all. I mean, thank you. Thank you for coming. Anything we missed? Anything you want to say in in kind of closing here, Andrew? Anything you want to reiterate or or anything like that?

01:30:21.90
Andrew
I'm good. I mean, it flew by.

01:30:23.13
Mike
if you

01:30:23.42
Andrew
I don't know if I i just threw up all over you guys.

01:30:24.09
Mike
Right.

01:30:24.76
Bill
yeah Yeah.

01:30:27.64
Mike
He wouldn't be the first one.

01:30:27.70
Andrew
I hope that...

01:30:28.74
Bill
Don't worry.

01:30:28.78
Andrew
ah

01:30:29.06
Bill
what We'll clean up. we'll Yeah.

01:30:30.90
Andrew
i hope I hope I didn't speak too out of turn, but um but no, I had a lot of fun.

01:30:34.68
Mike
Absolutely not.

01:30:34.83
Bill
now

01:30:36.82
Andrew
It really flew by. And like I said, anything that if if it only just if one thing, you know, if one of my Marcus's helped anybody, then, um you know, then um I'm happy.

01:30:51.64
Andrew
So.

01:30:53.08
Mike
Exactly.

01:30:53.21
Bill
Well, good. Well, yeah, so um mike's got it Mike's got a fun and interesting way of closing it out. If you haven't heard it before, you're you're about to enjoy yourself for a couple of minutes.

01:30:57.94
Mike
instance

01:31:01.14
Bill
So, Andrew, you and I are going to get quiet for a minute. Mike is going to do a little bit of a closing thing here, but don't don't run away yet. We're still going to say our goodbyes and don't run away. But, Mike, it is your turn.

01:31:11.92
Mike
All right.

01:31:12.23
Andrew
right.

01:31:12.33
Mike
Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature.

01:31:12.37
Andrew
Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober on the Show.

01:31:16.93
Mike
Thank you, Andrew, for coming on and sharing your story and your vision with us.

01:31:17.09
Andrew
Thank you for coming on and sharing story. Richard with us, everybody, to anothermanstreasure.co and check that out.

01:31:21.33
Mike
And everybody go to anothermanstreasure.co and check that out.

01:31:24.95
Andrew
And as always, be kind to each other, good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else's weekend.

01:31:28.22
Mike
And as always, be kind to each other. be good to each other. go out and do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody you did it. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:31:38.43
Andrew
Now, from the bottom of my heart, to the depths of my soul, from the beginning time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you. Now it's time, kids.

01:31:49.79
Andrew
It's time for you fuck off.

01:31:50.58
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off.

01:31:53.13
Andrew
Then you can't fuck off.

01:31:54.26
Mike
Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:31:56.21
Andrew
Keep fucking off until you get to a gate with the sign on it, saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:32:01.78
Mike
Climb over that gate.

01:32:02.17
Andrew
Climb over that

01:32:03.38
Mike
Dream the impossible dream.

01:32:04.13
Andrew
Dream the impossible dream.

01:32:05.86
Mike
and keep fucking off forever.

01:32:10.09
Bill
that's our That's our fun way of closing it out, Andrew, in case you've never heard that before.

01:32:12.41
Andrew
I love it.

01:32:13.89
Bill
So it's the whole story behind it, but everyone's heard it all before, so I won't repeat all of it. But um number one, ah thank you, obviously, again, for coming on.

01:32:18.71
Andrew
Well said, sir.

01:32:23.28
Bill
Number two, everything will be in description as far as ah his Instagram handle and his website are the same. Just take the at symbol off. If you'll be able to get to his website, you'll get the link on, obviously, in the description.

01:32:33.18
Andrew
Also on TikTok and Facebook, sorry, as well.

01:32:35.61
Bill
Oh, TikTok and Facebook. Okay. All right. So all all over the place, anywhere these these social media whores are, then you can find our good friend, Andrew. But um yeah, stick around, Andrew, please.

01:32:45.77
Bill
Do not hang up yet. We're going obviously chit-chat for a minute once we close out. But Mike, I love you, brother. And I know we will talk soon.

01:32:51.06
Mike
I love you too. We shall.

01:32:54.97
Bill
All right. Goodbye, everyone.

01:32:56.79
Mike
Bye.

01:32:57.05
Andrew
See you guys.