SoberNotMature - Episode 192 (Burnt Grits)

00:01.51
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And who's who's there with me? Hello.

00:12.02
Mike
Hi there.

00:12.96
Bill
yeah Well, you know, I'm not going to sing fucking welcome back, Connor, today, but goddammit, welcome back, my friend.

00:16.93
Mike
Yeah, good. Right.

00:18.44
Bill
ah

00:18.73
Mike
Yeah. You know, I missed it, man. It's fucking work. What are you going to

00:23.46
Bill
No. And you know what? It's, ah it's kind of funny because, you know, I mean, the, when it happened the last time, obviously it was a more tragic reason than, you know, you just working, but it was a combination of both the last time.

00:30.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:32.84
Bill
But I mean, we had guests both times, which is no big deal.

00:33.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36.57
Bill
Like I told Tony, I'm like, it's not that we wouldn't have recorded tonight. We would have just done it at some fucking ungodly hour, you know?

00:42.44
Mike
Right.

00:43.43
Bill
And, and I had to, not, not that it matters, not that I matter, but I had to get up early last weekend to head. Where am I? You can ask me now where I'm at at Mike.

00:50.39
Mike
Oh, yeah. Hey, where are you, Bill?

00:53.39
Bill
I'm in Lake of the Ozarks, Mike, for for three whole weeks.

00:54.94
Mike
ah

00:57.77
Bill
Well, now for two weeks. But but yeah, so I got up at, you know, somewhat godly time and left at like seven in the morning. So I wanted to get it down here, you know, as I as i always do.

01:05.73
Mike
Right.

01:06.54
Bill
So um yeah, I'll chit chat about that a little bit later, but.

01:08.20
Mike
So what are you trying to say? We have a life outside of this thing.

01:11.41
Bill
Well, you know what? Here's here's the thing. Yes.

01:13.23
Mike
Yeah,

01:13.73
Bill
um But, I mean, we've recorded, what was that that that year that you went to the baseball game? We didn't start until 10, 9 or mean, like,

01:22.95
Mike
tv yeah something right at 930.

01:24.48
Bill
i mean like

01:25.39
Mike
Let's split the difference. But yeah, it was fucking late.

01:27.98
Bill
yeah It was like my time. So it was probably like, you know, 10 or 1030 your time, because I remember all said and done.

01:31.25
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:33.02
Bill
I don't think I was done putting everything together until midnight or 1230 something like that.

01:37.44
Mike
Right.

01:38.00
Bill
You know, which again, it's, it is, it is what it is. It was fine, you know, but, um, granted, I'd rather, I'd rather have had that, you know, extra hour, couple hours of sleep, whatever the case may be.

01:41.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:47.64
Mike
this is

01:48.65
Bill
And, ah and Tony was a great guest and anyone who hasn't listened to to last week's episode. Um, and Mike, I don't know if you, if you had a chance to listen, if not, okay.

01:55.70
Mike
I have not yet. i was waiting for i was waiting for the punchline so I could say, yeah, me too.

02:00.61
Bill
ah no No, but then what i was going to say is I mentioned to him because i mean the the conversation went, first of all, um he's a conversationalist. We didn't talk over each other. was a very smooth conversation from ah you know from a technical standpoint, the way that we look at it, um but also interesting and

02:10.59
Mike
Cool.

02:15.97
Mike
Right.

02:17.97
Bill
this whole stoicism shit, um a lot of parallels between, really a lot of parallels between recovery and stoicism. I mean, I knew, I didn't know shit about it.

02:26.09
Mike
huh

02:27.73
Bill
know the word. I know the i the the concept about it, but it was great conversation.

02:28.83
Mike
For sure. Cool.

02:32.97
Bill
So I told him, I'm like, you know, and I said, Mike would probably enjoy a lot of this stuff.

02:33.72
Mike
cool

02:36.47
Bill
So I said, you know, told Tony, I said, maybe who knows, we'll have you back on um at some point.

02:39.96
Mike
Yeah.

02:40.65
Bill
But yeah, he was, it was interesting. Everything went smooth, but here's a funny part though, too. And the we talked about this before that I don't think that either one of us, I'm just going to say neither one of us would be comfortable doing this thing on our own.

02:54.17
Bill
Am I correct?

02:54.20
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right.

02:55.71
Bill
Okay.

02:55.94
Mike
Yeah, just cracking a microphone orflow and talking? No, no.

02:59.29
Bill
I mean, i I can do it, but um you know it's like it's like once you've had you know this thing over here, why do you want that thing over there?

03:06.72
Mike
Right.

03:06.90
Bill
um i mean, i can I can talk to myself. i Everyone knows that. Anyone who's known me for half a fucking minute.

03:10.00
Mike
Oh, yeah. Sure. I mean, I... Right. I mean, yeah, me too. But...

03:16.44
Bill
But, but so, you know, the, it's always uncomfortable. The, you know, starting off is no big deal because, you know, I started off anyhow, um you know, get into the whole thing, even with the guests, you know, I can, we can banter a little bit.

03:28.48
Bill
And then, um you know, i'm like, I just, I have to qualify everything. Well, Mike normally does this, but this is how we tell our stories. And it's fucking awkward to me.

03:35.60
Mike
Right.

03:37.53
Bill
And then, you know, it's like when the break comes, well, Mike normally does this too. And I'm like, I find myself explaining. So at the end, i'm like, I'm not going to explain. You know, oh actually, no, I did.

03:46.60
Mike
yeah

03:47.55
Bill
I said, I'll say the same thing I said last time. I'm not going to go through the whole thing that Mike does. I've said, stick around for a minute. you can listen to our prerecorded thing. But then it's like, I almost fucking forgot how to say goodbye. I'm like, I, how do bye.

03:57.14
Mike
Right. Right.

03:59.56
Bill
a

04:00.25
Mike
Sure. Yeah, right.

04:02.35
Bill
ah You know how it is? Cause when, but once again, you know granted you and I have been around each other for a long time.

04:07.26
Mike
aha

04:07.47
Bill
I mean, that that's one thing, but there's a lot of people in my life that I've been around a long time.

04:09.26
Mike
right

04:13.19
Bill
that I was going to say I don't know, but that I know for a fact um would not have the same. I would not have the same back and forth with them. Vice versa. It's not their fault or my fault.

04:21.56
Mike
sure is

04:22.81
Bill
It just wouldn't be the same thing.

04:24.44
Mike
yeah right

04:24.62
Bill
You and i just have that have that communication back and forth in it.

04:27.94
Mike
Right. Right.

04:28.81
Bill
And you know what? Even if it doesn't work for anyone else out there, it works for us. I like how it sounds. So fuck everyone else.

04:34.78
Mike
Right.

04:35.13
Bill
If you don't like it, why why are you still around?

04:35.18
Mike
Sure. Uh huh. right he

04:39.44
Bill
Well, but here's the funny thing, just a quick side note. um So you can take a look at ah individual analytics on each episode.

04:47.11
Mike
sure

04:47.41
Bill
And we're starting to still overall is the whatever it is, 40, 49 to 54, 45 to 50, whatever it is. The old guy, old people like us is still our main demographic overall from day one till now.

04:55.07
Mike
ah hu

05:00.07
Bill
um But. The last handful of episodes were hitting more of the 35 to 44 range um for whatever reason. Still male dominated. I mean, in some of its larger, one of the episodes was like 60 or 70 percent male.

05:14.94
Bill
um So still highly, you know, dude, dude centered.

05:17.88
Mike
Right.

05:19.62
Bill
Lots of that's a dick energy around this thing.

05:21.43
Mike
Right.

05:21.66
Bill
But.

05:22.23
Mike
Sausage party.

05:23.29
Bill
yeah Yeah. Thanks guys. We appreciate you really, but you know what?

05:25.80
Mike
Yes.

05:26.70
Bill
Bring again, bring a lady along. It's okay. You know, it's, they're, not going to hurt anything.

05:28.40
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, right.

05:30.94
Bill
Ladies, listen free. Tell them that they get to listen for free.

05:33.65
Mike
Right. It's ladies night on Sober Not Mature.

05:37.14
Bill
it's It's fucking ladies a year, you know, and ladies, it's ladies next year too.

05:39.46
Mike
Right. wolf

05:42.47
Bill
But, um but yeah, just weird. And I don't know. I mean, ah you know, our episodes have popped up just a little bit numbers, nothing huge, but that was just, ah I noticed it and I look back and yeah, we're hitting a ah different age demographic now as a larger group.

05:54.78
Bill
And it just, um again, I don't know why know I can't, I don't know how to look into and be like, huh, yeah.

05:59.13
Mike
Yeah, right. It's not like we're doing anything. a

06:02.29
Bill
Yeah, we're doing the same goddamn things. And I'm like, did some of our guests pull them along? I don't even fucking know.

06:06.19
Mike
may

06:06.28
Bill
But, you know, anyhow, it's just interesting, interesting stuff.

06:06.75
Mike
yeah

06:10.02
Bill
So, yeah, whoever the fuck you are, you 35 to 44s or 30 whatever's to that age range.

06:10.34
Mike
Well, hi, kids.

06:17.47
Bill
Welcome. Fucking welcome.

06:18.69
Mike
Yes.

06:18.82
Bill
So bring along, bring along your friends.

06:19.25
Mike
Hi.

06:22.66
Bill
All of them.

06:22.67
Mike
Yes. Right.

06:23.79
Bill
Yeah.

06:24.55
Mike
is

06:25.43
Bill
Shit for a minute there. I thought I lost you because I heard like half a word, but I'm like, fuck. Well, that's because I interrupted. You see, I'm out of sync now. Fuck, man.

06:31.94
Mike
I know.

06:32.36
Bill
God damn it.

06:32.99
Mike
we're just we're all We're all fucked up. Mm-hmm.

06:37.13
Bill
oh Oh, wacky. Okay, so um I mean, I've got some things to talk about. i And one of the things that I figured I was going to last week, figure just tell Tony that we'd like to take five or 10, maybe 15 minutes to talk about Ace.

06:49.69
Bill
But now we've got we've got free time to talk about him tonight.

06:51.78
Mike
Right. Yeah, I figured we'd...

06:53.04
Bill
I was assuming, oh yeah, assuming you would.

06:53.68
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

06:56.05
Bill
I i figured you would too.

06:56.55
Mike
Yes. Major, major loss in my life.

07:01.34
Bill
Yeah, I know. And there's a, well, we got plenty, we got plenty of time to talk about, but I think it'll be, um, it's good dude.

07:03.92
Mike
Yeah, we do.

07:06.58
Bill
And I've heard a couple of other things along the way over the last, uh, whatever, so then week and a half or whatever, but, um, I don't know have big part of a big part of my life too, but I think yours more.

07:10.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

07:14.69
Bill
So you were a little bit more descriptive on Facebook and all that, which I I'd like you to tell that, that story and stuff.

07:15.43
Mike
Yeah.

07:18.26
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

07:20.66
Bill
But of course I got my normal shit. So think I think we're, I think we're all good to go.

07:23.12
Mike
Right.

07:24.24
Bill
And, and like I said, Hey, I'm in the, I'm in the fucking Ozarks and it's,

07:27.51
Mike
Right. And I'm still in Cleveland.

07:30.51
Bill
it fuck And it's fucking raining though. I think I'm going to get rained out this weekend, but it is what it is.

07:33.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

07:35.24
Bill
So, all right.

07:35.61
Mike
Yeah.

07:37.55
Bill
um I don't know. Did you forget how to read in the last like week or do you have a reading by chance?

07:40.19
Mike
ha I do have a reading. Let's see if I can actually do it.

07:47.79
Bill
Do you got your light on so you can see and all that stuff?

07:48.28
Mike
but I have a light on. I can see the glasses are around my head. Yes, I have a book in my hand.

07:53.67
Bill
Right.

07:55.55
Mike
Look at that. Let's see here.

07:56.85
Bill
Right.

07:57.67
Mike
All right. um Yeah, so a reading. might remember how to do this. ah This is from Keep It Simple. This is actually from yesterday.

08:08.84
Bill
Nice.

08:08.96
Mike
i read it yesterday morning and went, ah, it's pretty decent one. Let's see if ah it'll hold up and we'll see if it holds up. But anyway, so October 23rd from Keep It Simple.

08:21.30
Mike
um it's not It's not dying. See, I can't do it. Yeah, I know.

08:29.50
Bill
i was sorry I was already muted.

08:30.01
Mike
Uh-huh.

08:30.81
Bill
I'm over here laughing my ass off.

08:31.51
Mike
Now.

08:33.65
Bill
Seriously, I was just kind of fucking around. but me You want to take a minute? Take a breath. It's okay.

08:37.28
Mike
of

08:38.11
Bill
you want to tell a joke or something like that? Okay, a blonde, a priest, and a rabbi walk into a bar.

08:40.23
Mike
no

08:43.59
Bill
Okay.

08:44.00
Mike
ahha

08:44.70
Bill
That's it. It's like it's like like the Breakfast Club when John Bender's in the roof or in the Raptors that he starts to tell that story.

08:45.56
Mike
now

08:51.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

08:51.28
Bill
As a side note, do you know, whatever he's talking about, you know, the girl with a poodle and whatever he says, there's no punchline to that joke. He just basically ad-libbed that from what I understand.

09:01.08
Mike
Ah.

09:01.36
Bill
There's literally no, he just made some shit up while he was doing it.

09:04.03
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

09:04.86
Bill
And there's no punchline, which makes it even more funny. So, okay. There, yeah you got you you got your minute. You good? All

09:10.21
Mike
probably not, but let's do it anyway, all right, yes, ah October 23rd, keep it simple, blah, blah, blah, here we go, it's not dying for faith that's hard, it's living up to it, William Makepeace Thackeray, let's see, didn't look him up, don't care, all right, um

09:12.72
Bill
right.

09:31.01
Mike
We may ask, do I have to do an eighth or ninth step? Do I really need a sponsor? Hmm, can I get by without going to so many meetings?

09:42.00
Mike
Having faith means putting our questions aside. So what do we do? We work the program. We accept that those who have gone before us were right.

09:53.24
Mike
We accept the idea that we need others. Faith is knowing that others love and care for us. Faith is also about action. The main way we know that we have faith is by looking at our behavior.

10:08.50
Mike
Ask yourself this, are my actions those of a person with faith? Prayer for the day. Higher power. Help me to remove the questions that get in my way.

10:19.58
Mike
Help me to act like a person with faith. Action for the day. more action. I'll list four parts of my program that I have faith in, such as i believe honesty is an important is important to my sobriety.

10:35.70
Bill
right. um I got a lot of, I was doing and a lot of scribbling there. I didn't write down a lot of things, but a couple of kind of longer, longer lines.

10:40.97
Mike
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

10:42.46
Bill
But um number one, I like that. I do remember that reading.

10:44.90
Mike
Yeah.

10:45.90
Bill
And I mean, anything about, you know, faith and and faith and courage and all those different things that we talk about, you know, kind of, I think important, you know, in general.

10:49.12
Mike
Right.

10:54.69
Bill
So I enjoy them. um So that the action part was list. And it's, I know it says four, but it's parts of the program that that we have faith in.

11:01.74
Mike
Right.

11:03.75
Bill
Is that correct?

11:04.23
Mike
Right.

11:05.12
Bill
Okay. So is there, i mean, like if you had to pick out one or two things that you're like, these things here, here and everything else is from there, were there specific things that you feel, I don't know, that maybe more faith than others or just things that your go-to faith?

11:19.37
Mike
Um, yeah, I mean, you know, the the whole do get good, you know, do good, get good thing. Um, you know, that's, that's definitely a leap of faith.

11:25.72
Bill
Right. Right.

11:28.74
Mike
Um, you know, not so much anymore because it's been proven out for the past 15 and a half years.

11:33.87
Bill
but Right.

11:35.91
Mike
Um, but yeah, I mean, ah the reason I like the reading, I'm just going to start with that, um, is because, you know, um,

11:35.99
Bill
Mm-hmm.

11:45.03
Mike
every well not everybody but most of the people listening this know i'm an atheist right and i and i get you know i get the how can you have faith if you don't believe in anything right well no it's not that i don't believe in anything i believe in a lot of things um i just don't believe in you know the invisible man in the sky that whatever um But yeah, you know, ah faith is a huge part of this program. and And I have faith in a lot of things. I have faith in the fact that if I work this program, things are going to get better.

12:20.12
Mike
have faith that if I work this program, I'm going to be a better person. um You know, there's and those are leaps of faith. I mean, ah you know, especially coming into this thing, you know, it's going to work, you know, fuck, man, you know.

12:34.50
Mike
Right. um i Again, because I didn't know. I'd been around it before. i didn't do any of the goddamn work. I did a little bit of the work, not enough.

12:44.98
Mike
um But, right, you know, that's it's a huge leap of faith. Fuck, I'm goingnna okay i'm going to be honest and I'm going to look at myself, and my behaviors, and my you know and I'm going to start taking responsibility for everything.

13:04.61
Mike
um you know, that's fucking huge leap of faith, man. And I didn't want to do any of that shit.

13:08.23
Bill
Right.

13:10.39
Mike
Uh, but you know, i'm I'm glad I, I still sometimes don't want to, but, um, you know, but I mean, yeah, I taking responsibility. i do like to do that now because again, with that responsibility comes the freedom.

13:27.37
Mike
That's the only way you get the true freedom, you know, happy, joyous, and free. oh because everything's my fault a

13:37.32
Bill
Yeah, the good the good, the bad, the indifferent, which we always talk about, which is which is huge.

13:39.26
Mike
exactly yeah but i mean yeah but also on the the other side of that coin is no one has any power over me nobody controls me nothing controls me substances and people and places and things and all that um ah substances or things um

13:41.20
Bill
I think that's great.

13:58.93
Mike
But yeah, none of that has control over me. Nothing has power over me anymore. And that's, that's the freedom and it's beautiful. Um, but that was a huge leap of faith. Oh God, I got to take responsibility for shit.

14:14.39
Mike
Oh no. You know, then I'm going to be, I'm going to be swamped and I'm going to, you know, I'm not going to be free. I'm going to be shackled with all this responsibility. And it's kind of the fucking opposite of that. It's so, but that's, that's faith, man.

14:28.72
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, the i mean, all of it. And you made ah um a lot of good points in there. But but really, when when we first came in and just watching all these people and are like, you know, if we want what we have, do what we do.

14:41.59
Bill
And we're like, OK.

14:43.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

14:44.53
Bill
Um, okay. You know, and, and the same thing, you know, having, having that gut feeling that, you know, I shouldn't do this thing right now. Um, that the do good, get good, picking up after yourself, cleaning, not realizing all those, all those things that we were being taught.

14:51.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

14:57.79
Bill
But, um, you know, this whole higher power thing, the whole praying thing. Um, why, why does it fucking matter that

15:03.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

15:06.02
Bill
either one of us sit down and in occupy, you know, 15, 20 minutes of our time every morning and read stuff.

15:09.73
Mike
hey

15:12.38
Mike
Right.

15:13.07
Bill
why Why does it matter?

15:13.06
Mike
Right.

15:13.83
Bill
what What difference does it fucking make?

15:14.72
Mike
Sure. Hmm.

15:15.88
Bill
Why does it matter? Why does it matter if we, if we, you know, ill say a set of prayers at night? Why does it matter if we look at how we, how we acted during the day?

15:20.26
Mike
Right.

15:22.80
Bill
um I'm fine. You know, it's,

15:24.36
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. I didn't punch anybody in the mouth.

15:28.33
Bill
yeah

15:28.44
Mike
It was great.

15:28.83
Bill
it's,

15:29.36
Mike
Yeah.

15:29.53
Bill
hey

15:29.75
Mike
fucking wonderful person.

15:31.54
Bill
didn't rob a fucking bank. I didn't steal anything.

15:32.56
Mike
Hmm.

15:34.18
Bill
I didn't yell at anyone.

15:34.35
Mike
Right.

15:35.67
Bill
you know um I'm fine until I'm not.

15:36.29
Mike
see

15:38.60
Bill
you know

15:38.76
Mike
Right.

15:39.39
Bill
and And that's the thing, though, is that, the yeah, to begin with, ah we have to, well, we don't have to. um We make the choice. you know to That's faith and of itself, you know making the choice and it's sticking in there.

15:49.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

15:51.50
Bill
But, I mean, watching what these other people do and how they act and realizing that, okay, yeah, this person's got... five years and I've got five days and this person's got 15 years and I've got, you know, uh, 15 months.

15:59.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:03.55
Bill
Um, you know, but maybe I'm not going to have, and that was the biggest part too.

16:03.99
Mike
Yeah.

16:07.21
Bill
that I may not have the car they're driving. I may not live in the house.

16:10.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:10.57
Bill
May not have the, you know, the, whatever the job is, whatever the case is, I may not have the material stuff, but that's not what this is.

16:13.89
Mike
Right.

16:17.10
Bill
Um, am I going to, am I going to carry myself?

16:17.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:19.14
Bill
Am I going to walk around with that comfort in that, that peace and serenity that that individual has, that's what I want. Um, I mean, i again, I like my car. you like your car, you've got You've got a big old fucking house that's stuffed to the brim with stuff.

16:30.02
Mike
Yeah. I do. I do. you Creepy crap. Mm-hmm.

16:37.76
Bill
And I'm going to say it again. Not cluttered. When I say stuffed to the brim, it is decorated.

16:40.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:42.38
Bill
It blows my fucking mind how much shit is in there.

16:43.49
Mike
but

16:44.61
Bill
I say it every time. I couldn't imagine having to pile all of that stuff up in the yard. You could build another house with all the stuff that's in here in your house.

16:49.89
Mike
o Yeah.

16:53.47
Bill
you know But it's it it looks fucking cool. So anyhow...

16:55.66
Mike
Right. Right. Right.

16:56.38
Bill
But so I may not have all of those things, but I mean, do what, what is it that I really want? Is the car that important? Is the, is the house as a relationship, you know, that like a significant other relationship, the relationships that are important are, you know, the ones I've rebuilt, the ones I sustained, the new ones in recovery that I've, that I've gained, you included along with our whole group of friends, you know, these people that I can, that I can count on for fucking anything, you know, and I had done of that before.

17:12.99
Mike
h

17:17.20
Mike
right right

17:23.70
Mike
Yeah.

17:25.53
Bill
And Once again, i it' say my life is far from what whatever I think perfect is, and I don't even know what the word perfect means, um but i'm I'm not there yet. Whatever there is, I'm not there yet with my life, with my sobriety, um you know with whatever i think I want to accomplish.

17:36.79
Mike
Right.

17:41.91
Bill
I know I'm not there yet because if I was, I'm done.

17:45.10
Mike
Right. Yeah.

17:45.87
Bill
You know, I don't want I don't want to be done.

17:46.72
Mike
Yeah.

17:47.49
Bill
And I mean, done to the fact that what do I have to live for if I'm completely content with where I'm at?

17:47.76
Mike
yeah

17:51.96
Bill
I'm comfortable.

17:52.28
Mike
Yeah.

17:53.16
Bill
Peace and serenity, you know.

17:53.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

17:54.56
Bill
but huh

17:54.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

17:55.24
Bill
But but I mean, I want to keep growing, you know. But I mean, that's all I need to have faith that all this shit's going to work out even when when times get weird and tough, you know.

17:57.93
Mike
Sure.

18:04.84
Mike
Absolutely.

18:06.29
Bill
So, yeah, I mean, it's, ah um I don't know. And it talked about, you know, am I acting like a person, a person with faith? And if nothing else, I mean, you you say it all the time. And I think I might have brought this up with Tony is maybe I brought it up the week or so before, but the whole acting as if right, you talk about that all the time, right?

18:23.48
Mike
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was a huge part of certainly early recovery. And it was, you know, when I was lucky enough to do groups at The Rock for all those years. I mean, that was a big one.

18:34.53
Mike
I told the guys, I was like, hey, man, you know, and it's not fake it till you make it. It's it's just act as if, you know, act as if you're fucking a sober person, act as if you're a good person, act as if you give a fuck about somebody other than yourself.

18:41.85
Bill
Right.

18:49.47
Mike
Yeah. And, you know, um I mean, that was especially early on and to an extent still, but you know, I still act as if, you know, I don't completely give a fuck about other people. Trust me, I don't, you know, have a hell of a lot more than I did 15 years ago.

19:08.57
Mike
um But yeah, no, i you know, there's still ah ah element of faking it and that's okay.

19:14.77
Bill
Right.

19:15.43
Mike
Again, you talked about, you know, not being there, not being perfect, not being done, Working on yourself, absolutely. i'm I'm not done working on myself. I'm not complete. I'm sure as fuck not perfect.

19:27.76
Mike
um But like I always told the guys, you know it's like working a muscle, man. The more you do it, the better the stronger it gets and the easier it is and and the better at it than you are.

19:39.18
Mike
you know, it's playing sports or music or anything.

19:39.42
Bill
right

19:42.43
Mike
How do you get better? You practice and, you know, and practicing is, you know, throwing that ball. You're shit. The first time you throw it, you're not very good at it, but you're you kind of faking it. it

19:52.86
Bill
Right.

19:53.04
Mike
That's okay. That's okay. But you continue to do it over and over again. You get better, you get stronger, you get more accurate. And yeah, it's the same with anything else, including giving a shit about somebody other than me.

20:08.69
Bill
Yeah, and it is. that like Like you said, I mean, there's I run into the same thing. And it's it's really, I'm going to say it's really easy to ah to be, and we talk about you know judging people.

20:19.49
Bill
There's nothing wrong with that. But there's it's easy for um for me to be

20:20.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

20:24.83
Bill
judgmental in a negative way when I'm out in the world, you know, and it's shit that runs through my head, you know, i'm all fucked up in my head.

20:27.17
Mike
Sure.

20:30.27
Bill
Right. Like you say, um things are all kind of my thoughts are all kind of fucked up still.

20:31.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

20:34.06
Bill
Right.

20:34.26
Mike
Yep.

20:34.86
Bill
um But they don't come out of my mouth. But the the thing of it is, is it I mean, that is if I didn't if if I didn't all the way back to today, fucking one, you know, didn't follow directions, didn't have the faith, didn't you know act as if to do all these different things.

20:37.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

20:48.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

20:49.26
Bill
I'd be a fucking mess out in the world today. You know, 15 years sober and I'm a, you know, I'd be a, I'd be a fucking, you know, a sober tornado.

20:51.15
Mike
Oh, yeah.

20:55.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

20:56.69
Bill
I want to be that guy. yeah

20:58.07
Mike
No. Mm

21:00.60
Bill
But you know, the other couple of things that I wrote down was like right in the beginning, it talked about, you know, like I think the eighth and ninth step and should I get a sponsor and all those different things.

21:08.01
Mike
hmm. Right.

21:09.44
Bill
And, uh, you know, the, the thing that I wrote down is, can I get by? And boy, is that a fucking scary and dangerous statement that that's why I wrote that down.

21:13.33
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

21:17.33
Bill
You know, well, I can get by Like I was joking around before I'm okay.

21:19.82
Mike
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

21:21.20
Bill
I'm good. Yeah.

21:22.08
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right. I'll get by for a minute until. Right.

21:27.17
Bill
right

21:27.30
Mike
Yeah. But eventually.

21:27.96
Bill
Until I don't.

21:29.06
Mike
Right. Until I don't. um Yeah. And that's another thing. I don't want to just get by today.

21:35.17
Bill
oh yeah.

21:35.20
Mike
You know, I want to.

21:35.53
Bill
Yeah, yeah. Right.

21:36.12
Mike
I want to. I want to flourish. I want to. I want to succeed, you know, and not in everything and not perfectly. But, you know, yes, I want to. i I want to be better.

21:49.05
Bill
Right.

21:49.21
Mike
And, um, and yeah, and it's great. So yeah. Can I slide by and and not do this and not do that? Yeah, probably, but I'm not going to be living fully and I'm, and I'm not going to reap all the rewards that I could and being selfish, self-centered bastard that I am.

22:05.22
Mike
I want, I want more. i want it all.

22:07.30
Bill
Right.

22:08.15
Mike
Yes. That's, you know, I'm an alcoholic. I'm a drug addict. I want more. I want it all. And, um, yeah and you know, and of course it's tempered with, you know, patients and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You're not getting it all all at once and not in my time and all that happy crap. But, uh,

22:26.32
Mike
But again, there's a faith. i I have faith that if I continue to do this and I do things to the best of my ability and doll don't slack off on things and don't go, no I don't have to do that.

22:38.76
Mike
you know I'll do this and this, but not that, that, that. No, oh hell no, I'm not doing those. um

22:44.50
Bill
right

22:44.66
Mike
Right. Yeah, no, I have faith that, ah yeah, I'm going to go and do those things to the best of my ability. And you know what? I'm probably, things are going to be better because I did.

22:56.59
Bill
Right. Yeah. Tony and I were talking about that because something came up with stoicism the same way. And actually, actually with the, I know for a fact we were talking about the act as if, cause I brought that up that you bring it up all the time or talk about it.

23:07.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

23:08.03
Bill
And again, it just kind of blown my mind. All this stuff was kind of parallel, but I think the, that made me think about it with the just getting by. It just, it, I think the only type of day that would be acceptable that you at the end of the day, you're like, okay, I got by is if you had, what are those days with, you know, 23 hours of bad moments in that one hour of whatever, and you didn't fucking lose your shit, you didn't drink that day.

23:30.97
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

23:32.68
Bill
I got by yeah that day.

23:33.88
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

23:35.71
Bill
I got by, but, but the thing of it is you didn't just get by because you use all the tools, um, you know, that that you had in your fucking toolbox to, to, to just get by and to not lose your shit and to not drink and not to, you know, end up in fucking jail.

23:40.45
Mike
Yep.

23:46.29
Mike
Yeah.

23:48.96
Bill
Cause you pummeled somebody.

23:50.07
Mike
Exactly.

23:50.54
Bill
Yeah.

23:50.75
Mike
and and it's And that's actually not getting by. That's getting through. And there's a difference.

23:55.60
Bill
Yeah, that's a good point. That's I'm glad you said that.

23:56.90
Mike
Yeah.

23:58.19
Bill
That's, that's actually perfect. Yeah. Getting through, i got through the day. I didn't just get by the day That's nice. I like that.

24:02.80
Mike
Right.

24:03.78
Bill
I like that.

24:04.70
Mike
Yeah.

24:04.95
Bill
So, but there's something that just kind crossed my mind. This is, I don't know, this is sort of adjacent to the conversation, but ah it nothing else. Cause I always try to bring up up examples where I want to, I just want to be, be honest that i'm I'm not, we know we're not cured yet, but I guess I want to bring up an example of how fucked up my head still is.

24:18.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

24:21.82
Bill
So, um, yeah,

24:22.27
Mike
All right.

24:24.49
Bill
um So it it worked. And I had mentioned, you things are kind of slow, this and that. And I think I mentioned at one point, there's a certain amount of, you know, like cases that we have in our route. And therere I figured out there's a certain number. It wasn't me that figured it out, but um they they try to keep us at like 300, which and i now I understand why based on number of phone calls per day and this and that.

24:44.98
Bill
And when i i fall below that in the 250s and 260s, I tend to suffer. um Either I'm running into the next days, I got to jump ahead, make kind of calls ahead of the time, which um most of the time is fine.

24:49.83
Mike
Yeah.

24:56.25
Bill
But sometimes can be a little bit weird because it's only been a handful of days since talked to somebody.

25:00.70
Mike
Right.

25:00.82
Bill
um But I had mentioned that to my to my manager when we were at a meeting a week or so ago, maybe week and a half. So um I started to get loaded up with new business. So now I'm like 315 cases, whatever the case is.

25:13.17
Bill
But I mean, it it went up a lot, like a week, week and a half. And they were now they're doing this steady flow. So I'm right at that range. And he messaged me the other day, I think Monday monday or Tuesday, I forget what day it was.

25:24.25
Bill
And he said, you know, he says, just so you know, he goes, you're getting a lot of lot of new business. Make sure you're keeping your route in order. And my route's always in order.

25:30.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

25:32.87
Bill
Okay.

25:33.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

25:33.70
Bill
um It's, it's, if I get what's called backlog where you got some cases that came through from the day before, it's either cause I have a day off or wait a lot of meetings or whatever, but I'm, I'm never backlogged for more than a day, maybe two, depending on a circumstance and not by a lot.

25:46.22
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

25:47.30
Bill
So my, my route is always in order, you know?

25:49.99
Mike
Right. Yeah,

25:50.80
Bill
So as soon as he said that, I just, I didn't even respond cause it fucking irritated me.

25:55.24
Mike
right. Mm-hmm.

25:55.68
Bill
And so I just, you could do with this, it's through teams. You could do like this little thumbs up thing. Like you could react to ah a text message, you know?

26:01.23
Mike
Right. Right.

26:02.49
Bill
So i just did a little thumbs up thing. um But you know, the, my, the initial thought in my head is I wanted to fuck my roundup, you know? And I'm like, and it's that, it's that old behavior, you know, is that some,

26:12.63
Mike
Oh, absolutely. I'll show you. I'll hurt myself. and Yeah.

26:16.58
Bill
yeah Oh, oh my my route's not in good shape? Fine, i I'll ah'll fuck it up. um gonna

26:21.10
Mike
hu

26:21.56
Bill
I'm going to fuck my route up and I'll show you how good it was.

26:24.63
Mike
Right.

26:24.96
Bill
yeah Now you're going to see. And I'm not i'm like kidding. This wasn't four five years ago.

26:30.02
Mike
Yeah.

26:30.10
Bill
this was four This was four days ago.

26:32.01
Mike
you're Right.

26:32.03
Bill
You know, and i I didn't, it was a, again, it was a passing thought like we do with these drinking thoughts or whatever, but I sat there and I laughed at myself for a minute.

26:32.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

26:39.80
Bill
I'm like, that's fucked up. And I got to, and I didn't even write it down, but I'm like, I can remember to talk about this because that's so fucked up.

26:43.38
Mike
he Yeah, right.

26:45.81
Bill
It's beautiful. You know, it's just fucking beautiful. Yeah.

26:49.58
Mike
And that's the thing, right? Yeah, we have the thought and then we recognize the thought we go, oh, that's probably not a good idea.

26:55.98
Bill
Yeah, I'll show you, you motherfucker. i'm gonna Oh, you're helping me?

26:58.70
Mike
Uh-huh.

26:59.35
Bill
Oh, and you're telling me, like oh, I'm going to fuck this right up now, you know?

26:59.92
Mike
Mm. Mm-hmm.

27:03.68
Bill
get out of Get out of my shit, bitch. I know what I'm doing.

27:06.77
Mike
Right.

27:06.92
Bill
don't need your help.

27:07.20
Mike
Uh-huh.

27:10.01
Bill
I don't need your goddamn managerial direction.

27:12.97
Mike
Right. Don't do you suggest anything to me. Right.

27:16.03
Bill
Yeah, I'm on top of the fucking world. Never. I'm the best in the group. Not.

27:21.37
Mike
right

27:22.17
Bill
What are talking to me for? Yeah. Fucking egotistical, narcissistic bastard.

27:28.26
Mike
Yep. And who does it really hurt the end?

27:29.51
Bill
ah Yeah, and it would have. It just would have fucked me up because i on every on every goddamn level, every fucking level in the world, it wouldve hurt to i mean it would have hurt me more than them.

27:32.68
Mike
Yeah.

27:35.80
Mike
Yep.

27:39.54
Bill
But when it when it ended up hurting them, but then it would have came back and slapped me in the face again.

27:40.81
Mike
Right.

27:44.14
Bill
I would have slapped myself in the face and then it got another slap from the other side from myself.

27:44.77
Mike
Of course.

27:48.45
Bill
So, yeah, it didn't.

27:49.15
Mike
Uh-huh.

27:50.93
Bill
It didn't would have, and I did not. I did not do it.

27:53.15
Mike
Well, good.

27:55.51
Bill
yeah but no, I like that. I like that reading. It was, it was really good. I mean, uh, um, yeah, I mean the faith part and just ah everything, all of it was just, um, I don't know.

27:59.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

28:04.04
Bill
It's the, it's these, these basic things like this. Cause that's really what it is. It's a, it's, it's a concept that can be, um, I don't know, dare I say daunting, but I guess it is, it could be, um, you know, I mean, again, it's the fear it is, ah it goes back to this fucking fear shit, you know, it's goddamn fear.

28:08.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

28:18.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

28:22.34
Mike
Yep.

28:23.89
Bill
But, um I mean, just, again, these simplistic things that they go into, some of these details, I just, ah I don't know. i really I really like it. I like it a lot.

28:31.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

28:32.53
Bill
So what else? Anything from the reading that kind of jumped out at you or no?

28:35.76
Mike
No, no, I think we've covered it quite well. Mm-hmm.

28:39.02
Bill
Nah. yeah yeah I just got to say, I was writing this down is because it reminded me of this commercial I heard. We talked about people of faith. So um I heard a commercial just the other day, yesterday, and maybe today, doesn't matter.

28:52.21
Bill
So I was talking about the health insurance and it's like, oh, this and that. We're here to take care of our our people and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, hmm, let's just, you know, just hear another quarter of my ear. And it's Christian ministry um health insurance.

29:03.83
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:05.37
Bill
And it's like, yeah, it's like, unlike,

29:06.54
Mike
I've heard, yeah, I've heard the commercials for it. It's been around for a while.

29:09.24
Bill
Oh, has it? I've never heard it before.

29:10.20
Mike
Yeah.

29:10.44
Bill
But yeah, it's just it's self-insured.

29:11.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:11.76
Bill
It's ah it's a self-insured program.

29:12.65
Mike
Yeah.

29:13.04
Bill
But...

29:13.53
Mike
Right.

29:13.77
Bill
um

29:13.89
Mike
It's, yeah, everybody contributes to it and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, right. It's communism.

29:19.34
Bill
yeah You know, I mean, but there there are there are programs out there that, I mean, there there are small companies that work for a company that was self-insured.

29:27.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:27.61
Bill
um You know, so you're not backed by an insurance company. It's all everyone's money.

29:29.87
Mike
Right.

29:30.49
Bill
and They pool it and they invest it do all this different stuff.

29:31.80
Mike
Yep.

29:32.41
Bill
But so I guess same concept.

29:32.47
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

29:34.08
Bill
But yeah, okay, maybe maybe with this. Because just the way they put it, that the way that they they said it, though, they're like, just so you know, we're all contributing to help out. All people of faith helping out are people of faith only.

29:46.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:46.86
Bill
Your money doesn't go anywhere else or whatever.

29:47.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:48.70
Bill
I'm just like, I'm like, Jesus.

29:48.72
Mike
Yeah, right. Yep. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm.

29:52.65
Bill
Yeah. I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah. hey We're, we're only going to, we're going to help people live that we care about that. We're your people.

29:58.30
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, have pretty much.

29:59.27
Bill
don't know. It's just, I don't why it fucking made me laugh so much, but it it did. It just, uh, it struck me a little funny. So, all right. Um, now we don't want to talk about it yet.

30:11.35
Bill
We'll talk about him after the break as well.

30:12.29
Mike
Yeah.

30:12.76
Bill
I mean, obviously we got this. That could be a, that could easily be a longer conversation.

30:13.89
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

30:17.26
Bill
So, um,

30:18.03
Mike
Right. Oh, I did follow up with the, the you know, the my opioid addiction. I have to look at it every day. Every day it reminds me of my opioid.

30:27.65
Bill
but Yes.

30:28.70
Mike
Yes. yeah It's a fucking drug. It's, yeah it yeah, it is.

30:32.13
Bill
That's what I thought. yeah

30:33.43
Mike
Yeah, exactly. I went to the website and looked. Oh, you assholes. Right. It's just instead of taking this drug, take this other drug. How about don't take any fucking drugs?

30:43.70
Mike
How about do something to make yourself better, ass wipes?

30:46.08
Bill
Right. Yeah. Well, and that's that's kind of what we were thinking.

30:48.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

30:49.71
Bill
it just kind of had to be. if you think oh you

30:51.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

30:51.87
Bill
Because it the way the way you said it, like, are you treating? You're treating your, you know, and usually treatment.

30:55.58
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

30:57.05
Bill
And not always, but, you know, usually treatment means drugs to these fucking commercials, you know. But...

31:01.64
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

31:03.18
Bill
Yeah. And like you said, you were talking about the one time, but why do you want to take all these? I think when we were on with Mara, I'm sorry, why don't i take all these pills that make me want to kill myself and shit myself and do this and that?

31:11.37
Mike
Yeah. Yes.

31:12.73
Bill
too

31:13.37
Mike
Exactly.

31:13.67
Bill
yeah Yeah. No, thank you. I'd rather get rid of all the fucking substances and, you know, do kind of, you know, I don't know, maybe do something like this, you know, again, read a book, do some steps, some readings every day.

31:23.02
Mike
Yeah. Right. Look at myself.

31:25.55
Bill
Yeah.

31:26.21
Mike
Right. You know, take responsibility. Mm-hmm.

31:31.42
Bill
Yeah, try try to be a good person. Try to help other people.

31:34.85
Mike
yeah

31:35.94
Bill
Yeah, I know. I know. The the simple simple stuff, right? All right. So um this is just kind of a a quick side note thing, but I thought it was interesting. The statement was, it was a um I was re-watching and still am. I'm almost done with it.

31:49.45
Bill
Actually re-watching the show, Ozark. Because I watched part of a really bad Jason Bateman, newer show, um that was it got all this fucking hype.

31:51.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

31:57.64
Bill
And I watched it. I'm like, this is fucking terrible. So it pulled me back into Ozark, which has just done really, really well.

32:00.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

32:03.29
Bill
And I like it. So, um but it said one of the, yeah oh, there was the head of the cartel. So dealing with the cartel in it, blah, blah, blah. So one of the main characters says to him, you know, he's like, she says to him, she's like, come on, you, you know, do this, whatever, blah, blah, you trust us. And he says, I thought this is the greatest line. He says, I don't trust you.

32:22.92
Bill
I trust my opinion of you. Okay. So what do you think about that?

32:31.30
Bill
I mean, do you do you think that's, I never thought about it that way, but do you, when we, ah you, me, any anyone, when we trust people, are we trusting the individual or what we, our opinion of them?

32:39.58
Mike
yeah

32:43.37
Mike
Right. um Yeah, probably our opinion. Right. But I mean, but thankfully with this semi clear head that I have today,

32:55.08
Mike
Um, yeah, my opinion, again, the judgment and and looking at their behavior and all that stuff, that that's where the trust comes from, you know, certainly not their words.

33:00.73
Bill
Right.

33:04.96
Mike
Um, and hopefully, hopefully, um it's the same for other people with me. They don't trust my words. They trust my actions. so

33:12.65
Bill
Right.

33:12.88
Mike
Um, but yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, it's, you know, my, from my observations and the the information that I've gathered and looking at the way you behave, that's where the trust comes from. Yeah.

33:26.99
Mike
Not just, yeah, not just, I trust you because, you know, I just smell good.

33:27.27
Bill
Right.

33:35.83
Bill
Yeah, well, it depends on how fucking horny I am. might

33:38.51
Mike
Yeah, that's that.

33:39.20
Bill
I might try.

33:39.23
Mike
Right.

33:40.58
Bill
Hey, baby, i love So...

33:42.72
Mike
Right.

33:44.97
Bill
so

33:45.23
Mike
that's Chanel number five. Oh my God.

33:48.13
Bill
I was standing there with a fucking raging heart out. I trust you and I love you. Let's go get married.

33:52.18
Mike
That's right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. All right.

33:56.14
Bill
But um yeah, and that's I just that yeah I'm glad you put it that way, because it's I mean, basically, we're forming. We can have an initial opinion of somebody that, you know, obviously could be hopefully a a good opinion. um But but again, it's it's how if they were just standing there not saying anything.

34:10.81
Mike
anything

34:11.01
Bill
Yeah. The only, it's like, it's like, you know, fucking dating site. The only thing you could do is just like, well, she's got a fucking hot, look at the boobs on that bitch.

34:16.54
Mike
right

34:17.62
Bill
And then, you know, you fucking swipe right.

34:20.60
Mike
right

34:20.67
Bill
Um, you know, but so you form an initial opinion, but yes, I, I think that, you know, to your point, your, your opinion is formed and your trust is formed based on everything that they, that they do.

34:32.24
Bill
And trust takes a while to earn, but I mean, like a second to get, you could lose it within a second, you know?

34:32.27
Mike
Yeah.

34:37.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

34:39.48
Bill
And then could take take fucking years to get back, which not that we would know anything about that coming coming from the the lives that we that we have led.

34:39.75
Mike
Absolutely.

34:44.18
Mike
no, wouldn't know anything about that.

34:50.51
Bill
um But no, i just thought that was, I literally, I laughed out loud when he said it. Because i mean, the dude was ahead of one of the fucking cartels. He's a fucking badass, you know. um But it just, it it made me laugh. But then I was like, God, I got to write that down because that that seems very interesting to me.

35:04.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

35:05.54
Bill
But um okay, one more real real quick one here that I wrote down. And this was you know from the 24-hour book, which is a rare one for me to pull something from. But um also, me was it there's a side thought that I want to explain too.

35:13.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. All

35:17.54
Bill
So the the reading said, or the piece from the reading said, what is the purpose for the rest of your life?

35:17.62
Mike
right.

35:22.70
Bill
Okay, so that's the that's the main part of the reading.

35:23.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

35:24.94
Bill
So your purpose for the rest of your life. But... what The reason I wrote it down, there was a, and I talked about my friend Sarah and all that stuff. We know that.

35:32.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

35:33.54
Bill
But there was another person from high school that we found out, um maybe this had to have been after, it was after Sarah died, last month or so, I think. And somebody that was my age, lived in the neighborhood we lived in, where we lived in Wales.

35:46.71
Bill
um She had between, um there was my birthday on the 24th, her birthday, 25th. And then our buddy Scott, his birthday was on the 20th. So the three of us right in this neighborhood.

35:57.64
Mike
Right.

35:57.69
Bill
you know, and the same age, blah, blah, blah. But, um, I mean, we, we all hung out as a, as a neighborhood, you know, cookouts and all that sort of stuff. So spent a lot of time there, but then she was one of those people when you get to school, um, she was, you know, stuck up and whatever, and never real, real friend.

36:07.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

36:14.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

36:15.27
Bill
And the same type of thing is after, after I got back on Facebook, you know, you get friends with people and blah, blah, blah. And she was one of them that kind of, you know i became friends again, comment on stuff, blah, blah, blah. But i um I dropped her as a friend at one point because, I mean, she just – a couple of comments she made that are not important to go into at this point.

36:31.39
Mike
hey

36:31.79
Bill
But I just didn't like where she came from, so I unfriended her.

36:33.47
Mike
Yeah, right.

36:34.90
Bill
um And she she realized and tried to apologize. I'm like, no, said I have no desire whatsoever um to to be friends with ignorant people. I'm like, I'm not –

36:42.77
Mike
Right. Nice.

36:43.81
Bill
I'm not dealing with it.

36:44.58
Mike
Right.

36:44.77
Bill
That's exactly what I said to her, you know, so you can get you can kind of get an idea of what it was just she was ignorant thoughts.

36:45.20
Mike
Right. nice

36:49.72
Mike
is

36:51.23
Bill
And when I use the word ignorance, it has nothing to do with intelligence.

36:51.77
Mike
right

36:54.39
Bill
I hope everyone understands that.

36:54.83
Mike
right Mm-hmm.

36:56.47
Bill
um So um she died about a month, two months ago, whenever it was.

37:01.85
Mike
Okay.

37:01.88
Bill
And Kathy saw it first because, I mean, I'm not friendly with her on Facebook anymore.

37:05.29
Mike
Right.

37:06.24
Bill
And there's a ah good friend of mine from high school, one of the ones I keep in touch with. So I had messaged her because I knew she knew.

37:10.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

37:12.47
Bill
She kind of hung around that group.

37:14.29
Mike
Right.

37:14.62
Bill
And she's like, yeah, you know, ah she she did. she She passed away. But, you know, again, somebody found her, blah, blah, blah. Nobody knows what happened. I know she was a big drinker.

37:21.66
Mike
Hmm.

37:22.59
Bill
I know for a fucking fact. But I don't know if she had health issues. I know nothing about it. I still don't. You know, but...

37:28.27
Mike
Right.

37:29.51
Bill
They did this um celebration of life for her also. And it was at some community center in Milwaukee a couple of weeks ago, whatever it was. was when I supposed to, oh no, when I went up to Wisconsin and had lunch for my late birthday lunch with Derek and Katie that weekend.

37:45.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

37:45.89
Bill
Cause my Pam, my ex had texted me. She's like, are you going to Holly's thing? I'm like, fuck no. I'm like, I wasn't, I'm like, I was nice about it, but I'm like, I never hung. i didn't really hang out with her.

37:54.79
Mike
Right.

37:54.95
Bill
Was that close to her?

37:55.41
Mike
Yeah.

37:55.79
Bill
I said, um, plus, I mean, I don't hang out with those people at no, I'm not going.

37:56.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:00.22
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah.

38:01.65
Bill
So all said and done, the other friend that I've verified this with, she had messaged me or texted me, I don't know, after the thing. And she's like, she goes, did you hear about, you know, Holly's service? And she said, do you go? And I'm like, I didn't go. No.

38:14.12
Bill
um And she said, from what I understand, she said there was like almost no one there.

38:18.64
Mike
Wow.

38:18.73
Bill
And um Crystal, who was another one I've actually talked about on here, but Crystal was a good friend of hers.

38:23.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:24.51
Bill
And apparently was she was fucking pissed because she tried to organize this whole thing. Not a lot of people showed up.

38:28.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:29.76
Bill
Not a lot of people from school, whatever. So that was my kind of side thought, okay? And it kind of brought me into this, this kind of wrapped around with the whole, you know, again, Sarah dies alone at her home. You know, this person dies alone wherever nobody shows up.

38:40.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:42.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:42.67
Bill
um You know, so the back to the back to the line here, what is the purpose for the rest of your life? And I'm not trying to be, um you know, what is what is the meaning of life, all that stuff. But it in a basic sense, you and I, the people that we are, what would be is that a right way?

38:52.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

38:57.70
Bill
Purpose, goal, whatever. um What do you want to do with your life? I want to rock.

39:02.35
Mike
I'm going to rock.

39:03.04
Bill
yeah

39:03.68
Mike
Right. ah

39:04.84
Bill
Yeah, i think I think you know what mean, right? I guess, ah you know.

39:07.29
Mike
Oh yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah okay.

39:08.75
Bill
Okay. Right.

39:09.83
Mike
So as you're, you've talked about this and you, you said, you know, right. Nobody shows up. You know what I thought of? Um, I thought of, uh, Ray Brown's, uh, service, right.

39:22.35
Mike
Um, we've talked about Brownie on here before.

39:22.39
Bill
Right.

39:24.97
Mike
He was a guy that like new sister Ignatia, and it you know, uh, 50 plus years sober when he passed this old timer, big time. Um, great guy. And, um, his service was at St. Coleman's and that place was packed to the rafters.

39:42.24
Mike
Um, and I remember the, you know, Catholic service and, um, the priest was up there talking and he was talking about purpose of life and Ray's purpose of life was service.

39:55.60
Mike
And I went, Oh, yeah, exactly. And that's, you know, I mean, again, not being perfect and not living up to, a you know, you're here Mike does not live up to his potential.

40:09.06
Mike
Um, heard that since I was goddamn five or years old um but yeah I mean that's it what is what is the purpose of my life it is to be of service to others um yeah you know and that is that is my simple and complete answer um again don't live up to it could do more but um yeah you know and and don't do that Yeah, as much as I should, but um I do as much as I can.

40:12.79
Bill
Right.

40:37.91
Mike
And that's it. Being of service to others.

40:39.89
Bill
right

40:41.54
Mike
And we've talked about it on here ad nauseum, right? It's AA math. Being of service to others makes my life better. I don't understand how that works, but there you go. And being selfish and self-centered, I want to be of service to others so my life gets fucking better.

40:57.65
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned, and I don't remember why um i couldn't make it to Ray's funeral, but I know I couldn't because I ah definitely would have wanted to be there.

41:03.97
Mike
Right. Sure.

41:06.03
Bill
um But I know I was in Wisconsin.

41:06.87
Mike
but don Yeah, right. Yeah, you you're up in Wisconsin. That was um shit probably 10 years ago now.

41:13.34
Bill
Yeah, and who knows? It was probably on ah on a fucking Tuesday and I was in fucking Beloit or something.

41:16.83
Mike
i Yeah, that I don't remember.

41:19.27
Bill
you know

41:19.66
Mike
Right.

41:20.36
Bill
um But yeah, I mean, a great guy. And then um you know my my sponsor, my first sponsor, Bill, you know that died. Whatever church he was at, it was out in Rocky River, some fucking place. I don't even know. um And I couldn't find a place to park in the subdivision. I parked at a strip mall you know three blocks down. I had to walk through the goddamn snow.

41:37.48
Bill
Uphill both ways, by the way.

41:37.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Of course.

41:39.22
Bill
and in the snow. um But when I walked in there, you know, the the church, was a huge fucking church. um The church area, forget it, packed. The lobby area, packed.

41:47.87
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

41:49.19
Bill
I could get, I weaseled my way up enough to be able to kind of, you know, because I'm tall and be able to to eyeball in and just I could see the priest and I could hear because they had speakers in the other place too.

41:53.22
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

41:57.99
Bill
But the same deal they were talking about.

41:58.60
Mike
Right.

41:59.93
Bill
He was, used ah it was a Catholic service. I don't remember the words, but he was um bits and pieces.

42:02.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

42:05.13
Bill
he was He was very gently and nicely and respectfully weaving um recovery and AA into his talk.

42:12.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

42:14.45
Bill
It's fucking cool.

42:14.49
Mike
Right.

42:15.53
Bill
And that was the first at that time, if I I'm pretty sure that was the first funeral I had been to where the person died sober um and, you know, had had a stature, if I want to put it that way, you know, in the in the recovery community.

42:15.62
Mike
Yeah.

42:25.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

42:29.89
Mike
Sure.

42:31.93
Bill
And ah again, he was, I say, only compared to Ray, but at 17 years at the time.

42:32.47
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

42:35.95
Mike
Right.

42:36.56
Bill
You know, um but yeah, you know, that's a good that's a good point, because in I mean, we talked about it before. I mean, neither one of us are necessarily I mean, I I don't want to die tomorrow. And it's not necessarily I mean, yeah, I want I have things I want to do.

42:46.35
Mike
hu

42:49.62
Bill
But if I die, don't that I'm missing anything, you know, maybe, maybe not.

42:49.85
Mike
Yeah.

42:54.04
Mike
Yeah. Right.

42:56.03
Bill
I don't fucking it know. um but

42:57.47
Mike
Right.

42:58.82
Bill
I have, I have places I want to be for other people, you know, in, in the next X number of years, you know, and I, whenever, whenever I pass, I want people to look at it and be like, ah, fuck it, man, dude, he was fucking this age.

43:01.54
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

43:05.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:12.03
Bill
It's okay, man.

43:12.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:13.28
Bill
had a good run, you know?

43:14.39
Mike
Yeah.

43:14.72
Bill
I mean, not as extreme as, you know, grandma L that died at, you know, 104.

43:19.83
Mike
You're right.

43:19.97
Bill
Um, you know, but, uh, even when kind of somebody died recently, there was 79 or 80, some, some, some ah celebrity i'll think I'll think of her in a minute because they just did the the whole oh cause of death, whatever. I'm like, well, she's fucking old.

43:34.10
Bill
you know

43:34.38
Mike
Yeah,

43:34.66
Bill
i know I know what a goddamn cause of death was.

43:34.81
Mike
right. Right.

43:36.10
Bill
It ended up being pneumonia.

43:37.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:37.86
Bill
and She ended up with pneumonia, but she's fucking old. She got pneumonia. you know

43:40.77
Mike
right

43:41.51
Bill
um But whenever I whenever i die, want it to be like, yeah you know what? You had a good run and in that sort of thing.

43:46.58
Mike
see

43:48.14
Bill
Fine. People shed some tears. don't want want people just... i don't want that i want people to just So yeah, the same thing. i want to be there for other people going forward. Being a service is a perfect way to put it.

44:00.19
Bill
And I try to live my life that way. I would much rather do something, you know, for somebody else than than for myself. I like nice things. You know, we just said it.

44:06.83
Mike
Sure.

44:07.36
Bill
but um But yeah, and quite honestly, I don't give a flying fuck if I don't care how many people show up at whatever thing people do for me. Quite honestly, I don't give a fuck if anyone does with the exception of the people that I truly care about.

44:16.60
Mike
Right.

44:21.35
Mike
Right.

44:21.38
Bill
You know, because I've made it clear what I want. fucking light me up put me in a box and go dump me someplace beautiful now if you want 50 people to come you know hike up a mountain and do that or if just my kids want to go do it let my fucking kids go climb up a goddamn mountain or dump my shit in the lake and be like well that that puddle over there looks kind of pretty dump i don't give a fuck

44:23.70
Mike
Yeah.

44:28.18
Mike
Uh-huh.

44:31.14
Mike
Yeah.

44:44.89
Mike
Right.

44:46.07
Bill
But what a great way to put that. I want to be, I just want to be a service to to other people.

44:50.64
Mike
Yeah.

44:51.66
Bill
and And you know, the thing of it is, I'm not saying who cares if you're not living up to your expectation. Nobody does, you know?

44:57.14
Mike
Yeah. Right. Oh, I know.

44:58.68
Bill
You know, so so the the thing of it is, is that, I mean, no, you're not. I'm not. Nobody is. That's a wonderful thing. The fact that you that you said it, I think, is beautiful. And the fact that it goes back to what we talked about and a minute ago.

45:09.71
Bill
We're not fucking done yet. Wherever we're at, you know, we we could do more.

45:11.04
Mike
Yeah.

45:13.50
Bill
i want to do more. I want to grow more. I don't want to just be some, you know, fucking lump on a goddamn log sitting here doing whatever it is I do.

45:22.04
Mike
Yeah. Right.

45:24.63
Bill
So, God damn it. Yeah, I like that though. Service.

45:26.35
Mike
Exactly. Right. But yeah, I mean, and like you said, you know, if it happens today or tomorrow or whatever, um I got nothing that I need to clean up, which is really, the you know, yes, there I've got things that I still want to do that are things.

45:34.75
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:39.18
Mike
Exactly. But there's nothing that I need to clean up. There's no messes I'm leaving behind. And that's all I give a shit about.

45:46.17
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's, so but that's the one thing I was, um, and we talked about it on, um, on mom's episode.

45:52.03
Mike
hmm.

45:52.14
Bill
Um, and I, I mean, I guess I'll mention if anyone, cause it's coming up, uh, this coming Thursday, it'll be three years that she had passed away.

45:56.56
Mike
Yeah.

45:58.79
Bill
But, um, you know, the, one of the things that, that Mike and I talked about on that episode is the fact that, you know, there was nothing left unsaid with her, you know?

46:06.61
Mike
Right.

46:06.75
Bill
I mean, yeah, I had more time in this earth with her. Um, but I mean, you had, you had 11 years to fuck things up with her. i mean, you could have, um,

46:12.91
Mike
Sure. Which is, oh yeah yeah, more than enough time.

46:14.92
Bill
You could have fucked some shit up at 11 years, but you, but you didn't, you know?

46:18.45
Mike
Yeah.

46:18.87
Bill
um you know, so there was, there was nothing. I had no zero regrets. Yeah. I was sad. I missed her.

46:23.80
Mike
Of course.

46:24.25
Bill
I still miss her, you know, but there was, there was zero fucking regrets when she died and nothing, um, that I, I sat back and like, God damn, I wish I would have, or what, what else could I have?

46:25.39
Mike
course

46:33.56
Mike
Yeah, right.

46:35.37
Bill
You know, that sort of thing.

46:35.72
Mike
Yeah.

46:37.01
Bill
Um, you know, so what a, what a beautiful thing. That's where the 10 step comes in. Right.

46:41.35
Mike
Absolutely. Yep.

46:43.85
Bill
Are you still there?

46:44.18
Mike
Yeah.

46:44.37
Bill
Did I lose you?

46:45.47
Mike
I'm right here. can you I'm making little lines on the thing.

46:48.77
Bill
Okay, so either I lost Mike or he lost me Let's see here.

46:50.87
Mike
Yeah. i'm still It's still recording. And I can hear you. Uh-huh.

46:58.67
Bill
Let's see if it appears that I'm connected. All right, let me try to call Mr.

47:05.97
Mike
Yeah, you're connected.

47:07.51
Bill
Mikey here.

47:08.29
Mike
Yeah, okay. Why don't you go ahead and try to call me? I'm going to remove one of my headphones, leave the other one on. There it is. i can still hear you, and I'm still making lines on the recording.

47:19.88
Bill
I can still hear you, and I'm still making lines on the recording. Really? And I am too, but you can't. So you can hear me, but I cannot hear. i can't hear you, and I see no lines on your and your recording side of things.

47:35.97
Mike
I have no idea why that is.

47:36.54
Bill
have no idea why that is. Huh. So that that is weird.

47:39.45
Mike
Check 1212.

47:39.98
Bill
But, yeah, you can you can hear me, though. Hang on one second here. You're talking kid talk. You're going to be at you're in my microphone.

47:45.84
Mike
Yeah, don't know.

47:46.07
Bill
Check 1212. Yeah.

47:48.97
Bill
um I'm just, I'm looking at your. Yeah,

47:54.35
Mike
yeah andt know

47:55.02
Bill
I don't know.

47:55.72
Mike
Like I said, I'm still making lines on the recording and I can hear you just fine.

47:56.03
Bill
Like i said, I'm still making lines on the recording and I can hear you just fine. Huh.

48:01.12
Mike
So everything's good on my end.

48:01.75
Bill
Everything's good on my end. I have no idea. And my, my internet's connected. I got nothing there. um Well, you know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to, I'm going to stop the recording and let's reset. Then we'll go from there and figure out what's what. Okay.

48:15.08
Mike
right.

48:15.49
Bill
right. Bye.