SoberNotMature - Episode 189 (Betty G.- Balancing Our Buddhas)

00:01.60
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And Mike, our guest tonight, I think, was referred to by some lady you know, right?

00:09.39
Mike
Yes.

00:13.97
Mike
Yes, exactly. My fiance. Still not used to saying that, man. But anyway, um yes, she listened to our guest on the Blossom podcast. What the hell is her name?

00:26.11
Mike
Mayim Bialik. Yeah, that's it. um I still call Blossom. Anyway, because I'm old. um Listen to her podcast and you know, I think she would be really good on you guys' podcast.

00:38.29
Mike
You should probably try to reach out to her. So we did. And here we are.

00:42.45
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. So, so Betty, we're going have you introduce yourself real quick. And first of all, thank you. We, um we make it a point of not, um we don't chase people, you know, to come on here because sometimes that I think it could be annoying for people to be chased.

00:47.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54.37
Bill
um But, you know, again, it was, you were recommended by a person that, well, Mike clearly loves her because they just got engaged. yeah And so do I, I love her too. She's been around for a minute, but so yeah, do us a favor, introduce yourself, tell us that just a very brief intro, tell us where you're from and then we'll get rolling on stuff.

01:10.61
Betty Guadagno
Well, hi. Thanks for having me. My name is Betty Guadagno. I'm dialing in from Brooklyn, New York, and I'm super grateful to be here.

01:17.13
Bill
Nice.

01:17.14
Mike
Hmm.

01:19.80
Bill
Well, good. Well, that's, ah you know, what's super great. You know, we're we're new into this.

01:22.66
Mike
yeah

01:23.00
Bill
so We're only a minute and a half into it. So we'll we'll see how grateful you are at an hour. But yeah yeah so, yeah, and just so everyone knows when we take a break, which is going to be right at an hour ish, um you know, I mean, obviously, as the recording comes in, but right about an hour, Betty's got to drop off.

01:36.80
Bill
So we've got the first half with her and then Mike and I'll finish up. But. um Thank you. Obviously, we're we're more than willing to to do that, but i have that flexibility with people. We just really appreciate, obviously, you showing up and um getting here and being able to to tell us about yourself.

01:50.63
Bill
So we have a way we go about telling stories, right, Mike? So you want to kind of key her in on that?

01:56.60
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we've all heard drunkologues. We've all heard all that garbage. We know how to fuck up our lives and fuck up the lives of everybody around us.

02:07.91
Mike
But we're more interested in the solution. But clearly, you have a pretty cool story, from what I've heard, ah leading up to the solution, your solution.

02:11.56
Bill
Go ahead.

02:18.47
Mike
So, you know, ah we don't need... all of the guts and and sweat and tears and all the nonsense, but we want some nonsense. We want you to qualify. So go ahead. Tell us your story.

02:31.67
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. um Thanks for the space that you guys have created because it's I think it's really important just to create this kind of conscious space and to let other people know that we can recover and we do recover.

02:43.41
Mike
Absolutely. Yep. yep

02:44.86
Betty Guadagno
And there's a real beautiful life waiting out there for you.

02:44.84
Bill
Right.

02:47.90
Betty Guadagno
um Yeah. So my life story is like chaos, dysfunction. I'm the daughter of addicts. They're the children of addicts. Their parents are the children of addicts. And it's been that way in my family forever.

03:01.60
Mike
Right.

03:01.84
Betty Guadagno
And I'm the first person in my family to ever get clean. So here to break all those beautiful generational curses.

03:04.98
Bill
nice

03:08.92
Betty Guadagno
It's kind of exhausting, but I'm up to the task, it seems like.

03:10.77
Mike
Hmm.

03:13.66
Betty Guadagno
um Yeah, you know, my parents were both addicts and their addiction destroyed them. 2007, they committed suicide with one another because they didn't even know that there was a way to just stop using drugs.

03:23.14
Bill
Right.

03:26.99
Betty Guadagno
They thought that they had to die to stop using. And that's been the the m MO in my whole family. Everybody dies from their addiction. I've never seen anybody get old.

03:35.40
Mike
Right.

03:37.59
Betty Guadagno
You know, like now I have friends in recovery that are dealing with health issues and visiting them in hospital and I'm like, wow, I've never experienced this before because everybody in my family dies so young because they all die from addiction.

03:46.94
Mike
Mm hmm.

03:49.28
Bill
right

03:51.58
Betty Guadagno
So you know like when my parents died, i was already an addict. um i like you know I started using when I was a teenager to deal with all of the sexual trauma in my family, the emotional abuse and the physical abuse and

03:55.68
Mike
Sure.

04:06.00
Betty Guadagno
You know, i um drugs became my best friend at some point in my life. And then when my parents died, drugs became my whole identity. And I made this decision that I was never going to be a victim ever again. i had been victimized my whole life up until my parents' suicide happened.

04:24.64
Betty Guadagno
And i decided that I was going to become the perpetrator in people's storylines because I didn't even know that there was another role to play. i ah thought that it was only victim and abuser, predator and prey.

04:31.77
Mike
Right.

04:31.81
Bill
Right.

04:35.14
Mike
Right.

04:36.08
Betty Guadagno
i didn't even know that you could just be like a regular human being.

04:36.43
Mike
right

04:40.73
Mike
ah

04:41.20
Bill
Right.

04:42.04
Betty Guadagno
So, you know, it became – felt like it became my job to hurt other people. I wanted everybody to be as traumatized as I was.

04:49.90
Mike
Right.

04:50.11
Betty Guadagno
And so I made it my mission to cause so much harm. And my addiction was so – it was romantic with me.

05:00.68
Betty Guadagno
You know, it whispered in my ear and said, you know, it's just me and you together forever. I'll never abandon you the way that your parents did.

05:09.03
Bill
Oh, yeah.

05:09.37
Betty Guadagno
And it was really charming. And i I devoted my life to my addiction.

05:11.41
Mike
course.

05:13.86
Betty Guadagno
I covered myself in tattoos of liquor bottles and packs of cigarettes.

05:14.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

05:18.80
Betty Guadagno
My addiction became my whole identity.

05:18.82
Mike
Nice.

05:22.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

05:22.57
Betty Guadagno
And i abandoned everything that mattered to me in my life. I abandoned my sister. I moved across the country. Every partner that I ever had, I would get them strung out on drugs because in my head, love equaled addiction and addiction equaled love.

05:37.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

05:39.10
Bill
Right.

05:39.67
Betty Guadagno
And so, you know, I've been married and divorced a handful of times. I'm quite a catch. They just throw me back and forth.

05:45.46
Bill
Yeah.

05:47.52
Betty Guadagno
But every husband, every partner, i would get them strung out on drugs. And my second husband, like we had been using for maybe four years and we were addicted to heroin.

05:57.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

05:58.26
Betty Guadagno
And he said, I've had enough. I want to get clean. And I said, well, I've only known you for four years and I've known drugs for 20 and I choose drugs.

06:06.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

06:08.11
Betty Guadagno
And this guy was like the love of my life at this point in time. And that's when I really knew that there was something clearly wrong with me, that I chose drugs over him and that relationship.

06:15.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

06:19.30
Betty Guadagno
And um I just kept continuing to cause harm. And I started to date this other guy. And he didn't even like using, but he really liked me and I liked using.

06:27.31
Mike
Hmm. This

06:30.76
Betty Guadagno
And he ended up dying of a cocaine overdose. His heart exploded.

06:34.98
Bill
him

06:35.23
Betty Guadagno
And that death just absolutely... It rocked my world and it sent me on this super dark path and and I was just wracked in guilt and shame. and I made this deal with myself that I was going to do this insane amount of drugs.

06:50.53
Betty Guadagno
And if I didn't die, I would go get help. And I woke up and I kept the promise to myself and I checked myself into a detox. And this was probably like my 12th detox that I had ever been in because i would always use detox and rehab as like a space to rest and recalibrate so that the the drugs would work again.

07:02.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

07:07.22
Mike
Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, right.

07:10.28
Betty Guadagno
But um yeah, this but this time I was kind of serious about it. I was like, no, I need to live my life differently. Like this is crazy. and And that's when I first heard the message of 12-step.

07:20.87
Betty Guadagno
I mean, i had been in rehabs where 12-step fellowships came in before, but I never listened.

07:24.88
Mike
Right.

07:25.71
Betty Guadagno
I just sat there and took it, know, I just would stare at them and be like, these people are liars.

07:26.01
Mike
Of course.

07:30.22
Mike
Uh-huh.

07:31.07
Betty Guadagno
And, um but i I really heard what this woman was sharing and She was so inspirational and it looked like she was glowing. And I was like, wow, I must still be real fucked up because this lady looks like she's actually on fire right now.

07:44.21
Mike
Of course.

07:45.58
Bill
yeah

07:45.67
Betty Guadagno
and And she was just sharing a message that she hadn't used in over 25 years, that she had challenges with children, divorce, disease, death, all these crazy things had happened to her since she had been in recovery and she didn't use drugs through any of it.

08:02.37
Mike
and since

08:02.61
Bill
Right.

08:02.93
Betty Guadagno
And I was like, this lady is a liar. I believe nothing she says.

08:05.18
Mike
course

08:07.40
Betty Guadagno
But there was something about her. And I just wanted to know more about what she was talking about. And so I asked her where she was going to be the day I was getting out of the detox. And I followed her to a meeting.

08:18.28
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, I've stayed around for a couple weeks in the rooms. I didn't really understand what they were talking about. Like everybody was so nice to me. They were so kind to me. And You know, I wasn't having sex with them.

08:31.38
Betty Guadagno
I wasn't giving them food or money or drugs.

08:33.29
Mike
Uh-huh. All right.

08:33.86
Betty Guadagno
i'm like, why? Why did they want to be friends with me?

08:35.27
Mike
Yeah.

08:36.42
Betty Guadagno
i have nothing.

08:36.47
Mike
fuck's wrong with these people?

08:37.35
Betty Guadagno
Yeah, I have nothing, nothing to offer them.

08:37.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

08:38.19
Bill
crazy. yeah

08:41.71
Betty Guadagno
But that didn't matter. They didn't care, but it didn't make any sense to me. And so I just – my addiction told me that I had to keep sedating myself to be social, that the only interesting thing about me was drugs.

08:45.04
Mike
for

08:53.10
Betty Guadagno
And so like every every time before I went to a meeting, I would take one pill.

08:57.18
Mike
Sure.

08:57.47
Betty Guadagno
And i I would rationalize and I'd justify, be like, well, it's just one pill. It's not 30 pills and it's not heroin.

09:02.79
Mike
Right.

09:03.53
Betty Guadagno
So like you're doing a really good job. You're cleaner than you were.

09:06.31
Mike
a

09:07.33
Betty Guadagno
That counts, right?

09:08.68
Mike
Right.

09:08.98
Bill
ish

09:09.52
Betty Guadagno
It doesn't count, by the way.

09:11.32
Mike
No.

09:11.35
Bill
you know

09:11.94
Betty Guadagno
And anyway, I stuck around for like a month. I picked up a key tag that I didn't deserve and and then I went out to celebrate and I stayed out for nearly two years celebrating.

09:23.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

09:23.73
Betty Guadagno
And in those two years, my life fucking evaporated. I mean, like really truly evaporated.

09:28.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

09:30.51
Betty Guadagno
Like I lost all my teeth.

09:30.73
Mike
Right.

09:32.77
Betty Guadagno
um Every time I got high, I thought that bugs lived inside me and so I would cut myself open with razor blades and burn myself with torches trying to get the bugs out of my skin.

09:36.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

09:36.95
Bill
Oh, man.

09:42.90
Betty Guadagno
Like it was – There was nothing glamorous about the end of my active addiction.

09:45.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

09:46.93
Betty Guadagno
It was actual hell. It was hell and I was trapped and I i was so stuck. It felt like I had magnets in my feet and I could not move from this one physical spot. I was actually stuck in one physical spot.

10:01.49
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, the the mental spot that I was stuck in too was just – it was agony, totally insane.

10:04.62
Mike
Sure, sure.

10:08.20
Betty Guadagno
And then overdosed. And this wasn't the first time that I had overdosed, but I – this is the first time that I experienced something spiritual in my overdose.

10:13.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

10:18.06
Betty Guadagno
And I had this near-death-like experience. where it felt like I got so high that I met God. And God was like, girl, you got to stop using drugs.

10:28.62
Betty Guadagno
And I was like, nah, God, you're crazy. I'm not going to stop.

10:31.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

10:32.65
Bill
yeah

10:33.83
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, in my in my spiritual experience, I saw a lot of different things.

10:39.19
Bill
Mm-hmm.

10:39.82
Betty Guadagno
I saw that I had planned my life, that I planned to be an addict, that i picked my parents, that my whole life had been predetermined before I ever came to earth. And I just thought that this was all drug-induced psychosis because I was a militant atheist. I didn't believe in God. i didn't i didn't even know what a spiritual awakening was.

11:01.20
Betty Guadagno
And so, you know, when I came back from this experience, I just kind of woke up on my bathroom floor. I shook my head and I was like, damn, I was so high that I thought I was fucking talking to God. That's crazy.

11:11.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

11:13.39
Betty Guadagno
And then my world started to get really small and it was like the universe was conspiring to get me onto a different path and that I i really did have to stop using drugs like I heard God say.

11:26.11
Betty Guadagno
And all of my drug dealers on the same day decided to change their lives and stop selling drugs. with so It was so crazy. Like literally 10 different guys. I call up my main guy. I'm like, hey, man, I want to pick up. Where are you at?

11:41.58
Betty Guadagno
He's like, listen, yeah lose my number. I want to be a good father. I found Jesus and I'm out of the game. Click.

11:46.94
Mike
Wow.

11:47.95
Betty Guadagno
And he blocked me. And I'm like, okay, this is a person that I had like a wrote a relationship with for 10 years.

11:54.01
Mike
Sure.

11:54.88
Betty Guadagno
He was my dealer for 10 years. And he just blocked me like I didn't even exist anymore. It was crazy. And then I call up the next guy on the list because I got guys.

12:01.37
Bill
Yeah.

12:03.66
Betty Guadagno
I got like, you know, a list of 10 guys to call.

12:04.12
Mike
Sure. Yeah, right.

12:06.42
Betty Guadagno
And the second the second guy says the exact same fucking story to me that he found Jesus and he wants to be a good dad.

12:13.27
Mike
Hmm.

12:13.33
Betty Guadagno
And I'm like, okay, where has Jesus been hiding all this time? Like what the fuck is going on? How are all these drug dealers finding Jesus?

12:17.84
Mike
This is... This is... Hmm.

12:20.00
Betty Guadagno
So they all have the same story. i have no way to get what I need. And so I go out on the streets of New York, you know, like any drug addict would. And I found what I needed.

12:27.89
Mike
says

12:29.52
Betty Guadagno
But every time that I picked up, it would like, it would be bunk. It would be fake. It would start raining. It would get wet. I wouldn't be able to use it. There'd be a hole in my pocket. I'd go home empty handed.

12:41.23
Betty Guadagno
Like everything that could happen. to get me onto a different path was happening. And so then I found myself on this train and I was you totally broken and lost and just so confused. And I had no idea what the hell was going on.

12:56.21
Betty Guadagno
And the whole train car was empty, which bizarre in New York City because there's 9 million people here.

12:59.17
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah.

13:01.82
Betty Guadagno
But it was the middle of the day. The train car is empty and... stop at a train stop, a man steps inside and he sits directly across from me, even though the whole train car was empty.

13:12.57
Betty Guadagno
And around his neck was this big blinged out 12 step fellowship emblem.

13:18.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

13:19.54
Betty Guadagno
And and i had just I heard this voice and it said, that's your path, follow him to a meeting. And so I asked this stranger on the train if he happened to be going to a meeting and guess what? He was on his way to one and he took me with him.

13:31.20
Mike
Uh-huh.

13:33.31
Betty Guadagno
And that was really the beginning of the journey. That was on June 1st, 2019. And I've been clean ever since.

13:39.89
Mike
Cool.

13:40.62
Bill
Nice.

13:40.92
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

13:41.47
Bill
well Well, first of all, I think that for anyone out there, it's if you're looking for a sign and some dude some dude walks in, you're sitting across from a subway, he's going to blink down 12-step emblem, there's an 80% chance he's on his way from a meeting or just came from one.

13:41.66
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

13:55.82
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

13:56.04
Bill
So that that made made me laugh. ah What a great what a great like ending sign, having that go, yeah, by the way, just ah you go to a meeting. yeah I'm sorry, keep going. That was just making me laugh.

14:09.28
Betty Guadagno
No. Yeah, that's great. I mean, that that was really the beginning. Like, that's when I started to pay attention to the signs.

14:14.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

14:14.44
Betty Guadagno
I mean, everything else that was happening in my life was totally crazy, chaotic, and fucked up too But when that guy just appeared there right in the moment when I was like, I don't know what to do with my life. And, you know, they told me when I went to the meeting, they were like, you got to keep making meetings.

14:28.14
Betty Guadagno
You did drugs every day. Now you got to make meetings every day.

14:30.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

14:31.77
Betty Guadagno
And so I just listened to what they said.

14:31.86
Bill
Right.

14:33.29
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, I made a meeting the next day. And ah walked into this women's meeting and I looked destroyed when I came into this process. Like I said, I was missing most of my teeth.

14:42.12
Mike
Sure.

14:43.91
Betty Guadagno
My skin was completely ripped apart and full of wounds and pus and holes from picking myself and skinny and gaunt and dead in my eyes. And you know i was just a mess.

14:54.32
Mike
Yeah, yeah, like all of us were.

14:54.71
Betty Guadagno
And that's that's yes yes and this this woman grabbed me when i walked into the room and

14:57.07
Mike
Yeah, right.

15:01.72
Betty Guadagno
she held me and hugged me so tight. And she just whispered in my ear and she said, you are worthy of all the love in the universe.

15:10.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

15:11.63
Betty Guadagno
And I believed her. I don't know why.

15:13.04
Mike
Well, hmm.

15:13.23
Betty Guadagno
I mean, I didn't feel worthy of any kind of love, definitely not universal love, but I just, I believe that maybe, i didn't think I was worthy of all the love in the universe, but I thought maybe i was worth more than

15:15.86
Mike
Right.

15:16.78
Bill
Right.

15:25.56
Betty Guadagno
homelessness and prostitution and drug addiction and psychosis and insanity and bugs and poverty.

15:27.70
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah.

15:34.88
Betty Guadagno
and so i just really surrendered and I rested my head on that women's big boobies for as long as she would let me.

15:37.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

15:40.44
Mike
he

15:40.95
Bill
Yeah.

15:42.23
Mike
right

15:42.66
Betty Guadagno
And I just cried. I cried into her and I surrendered i really, truly surrendered in that moment.

15:47.34
Mike
yeah and

15:49.67
Betty Guadagno
And i just kept going to meetings. you know I went to a meeting the next day and It was this big, huge meeting. There was like 80 people in there and it really felt like everyone was speaking directly to me.

16:01.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:01.90
Bill
right

16:02.19
Betty Guadagno
I mean, they weren't. They didn't even know I was there who I was, but it just felt like every share was a message straight from my higher power to my ears.

16:03.40
Mike
Sure. Right.

16:10.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:10.85
Betty Guadagno
And I had this thought and I was like, damn. I don't even know how to be a person. I don't even know how to wake up and brush my one good tooth without being high first. How the fuck am I going to live a whole different life?

16:19.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:21.16
Betty Guadagno
This is this is too big.

16:21.46
Mike
Right.

16:22.98
Betty Guadagno
This is too big for me.

16:24.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

16:25.19
Betty Guadagno
And then I heard a voice and it told me to turn my head to the right and sitting two seats away from me was the program director of a long-term women's rehab.

16:34.85
Mike
Right.

16:35.38
Betty Guadagno
And the only reason I knew what she did is because I had been in that program a few years before, but they wouldn't let me draw my eyebrows on. So I was like, I'm not going to, I can't do this.

16:43.61
Mike
Right.

16:45.36
Betty Guadagno
Like they can't censor me and my eyebrow drawing on.

16:45.58
Mike
Right.

16:48.52
Betty Guadagno
Like I will not, I will not be here.

16:48.72
Mike
says right

16:50.65
Betty Guadagno
And, but I knew that it was another sign and that I was going to have to ask her to help me But you know my brain kept telling me like, no, you're not wired that way. We don't ask for help.

17:00.50
Mike
since instance instance

17:00.85
Betty Guadagno
You'll figure it out on your own. Don't you fucking dare.

17:02.70
Mike
right

17:03.57
Betty Guadagno
Don't talk to her. but so i But I knew that that voice had to be wrong. And so the whole meeting, I was just like hyping myself up and doing – you know, jumping jacks in my mind's eye. And I was like, come on, and girl, you can do it. We're going to live a new life. You deserve this. And the meeting ended and I hopped up out of my chair and I ran over to where she was and she was gone.

17:24.89
Mike
ah hu

17:25.06
Betty Guadagno
she She left the meeting early and I felt totally defeated. And so with my head hanging, I walked to the bus to go home And when I stepped onto that bus, that woman was sitting right there.

17:38.83
Mike
Nice.

17:38.97
Betty Guadagno
she She left the meeting early and she was somehow on the exact same bus as me, not at the bus stop in front of the meeting because that's where I was.

17:43.64
Mike
Uh

17:46.72
Mike
huh. Right.

17:47.33
Betty Guadagno
And I ran up to her totally manic and I was like, oh my God, I think that you're an angel. You're sent from outer space. You're here just for me. wanted to talk to you inside, but of course I couldn't talk to you inside because you're here and this is nuts and I can't believe it. Please help me. I think you're supposed to help me. Would you be willing to help me?

18:01.70
Betty Guadagno
And she just looked at me so calm, like she had been waiting there for me her whole life. And she said, yeah, we have a bed.

18:07.07
Mike
ah

18:08.42
Betty Guadagno
Come by tomorrow. We'll help you. And that sentence changed my whole life. And I went into that ah treatment facility the very next day was just the clothes on my back.

18:13.15
Mike
Yep.

18:17.99
Betty Guadagno
I didn't have anything to take. My my most prized possession was a $200 vibrator.

18:20.05
Mike
Yep.

18:22.77
Betty Guadagno
So I didn't have a lot going for me, but I did consider taking it.

18:25.10
Mike
Yeah.

18:26.88
Betty Guadagno
I was like, would they let me have this in there?

18:27.24
Mike
Of course.

18:28.78
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

18:28.88
Mike
All right.

18:29.95
Betty Guadagno
Um, but I started my spiritual journey instead and I left that behind and I, I just started a brand new life for myself.

18:34.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

18:36.46
Betty Guadagno
And I walked into this long-term rehab with the intention of staying for six months, even though I knew it was a year long program.

18:42.15
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

18:44.81
Betty Guadagno
And I was like, I'll give you guys, was like, I will give you guys six months of my time.

18:45.97
Mike
Sound familiar, Bill?

18:47.32
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah

18:50.33
Betty Guadagno
And they were like, girl, you're not doing us any favors, like whatever, you know, like stay as long as you want or don't, it doesn't matter to us.

18:50.89
Mike
Sure. Uh-huh.

18:57.81
Betty Guadagno
But, you know, i i surrendered to the idea that I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

19:01.13
Mike
Yes.

19:03.51
Betty Guadagno
I don't know anything about anything.

19:03.76
Mike
Yep.

19:05.39
Betty Guadagno
Like I know how to use drugs. I know how to hustle. I know how to con. I know how to lie, cheat, and steal. But I don't know how to i don't know how to brush my teeth without being high. So let me just turn it over to something bigger than myself.

19:18.40
Betty Guadagno
And that program was something bigger than myself.

19:18.98
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

19:21.73
Betty Guadagno
And they had all these crazy rules in there.

19:21.79
Bill
Right.

19:23.81
Betty Guadagno
Like one of the rules was that you had to ask somebody who had been there longer to go into the refrigerator for you. And I was like, this rule is so stupid. I'm a grown woman. I know how to use a refrigerator.

19:35.07
Mike
Right.

19:35.49
Betty Guadagno
But realized in hindsight that it had nothing to do with the fridge.

19:35.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

19:39.23
Bill
Right.

19:39.40
Betty Guadagno
It was a um was about asking for help.

19:41.61
Mike
Right.

19:42.01
Betty Guadagno
Every day I had to ask somebody else to help me. So now i don't have any shame around it.

19:45.03
Mike
Yep.

19:47.29
Betty Guadagno
You know, like it geared me up for what the rest of my life was going to look like.

19:47.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

19:51.20
Mike
Yeah.

19:51.47
Betty Guadagno
If I don't know what to do or even if I think I do know what to do, if I ask somebody else, I'm in better company.

19:55.48
Mike
and

19:58.24
Mike
Yep.

19:58.41
Betty Guadagno
Because if I'm just by myself, I'm the one who got me into the mess in the first place. I do not know anything. i don't know what's for my highest good.

20:04.15
Mike
Yep.

20:05.69
Betty Guadagno
i don't know how to behave or act. And so I'm always checking in with, you know, more experienced members, people who have been doing this for longer than me.

20:12.02
Mike
Yeah. Imagine that.

20:15.29
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

20:15.45
Bill
Well, you know, it's funny is that we we were through the same thing with the sober living facility we were in.

20:15.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

20:20.19
Bill
I mean, cleaning and doing this and doing that.

20:20.48
Mike
and

20:22.05
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

20:22.14
Bill
We used to actually liken it to the like the karate kid, you know, paint the fence or, you know, wax put on the wax, the wax on the wax off.

20:22.49
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

20:29.49
Bill
You have no idea what you're preparing yourself for. But I mean, he was showing because I was 41. Mike was 43 when we got sober.

20:35.33
Mike
go yes

20:36.13
Bill
um So again, like you just said, you know, grown woman, we're grown men, but we did not know how to live. We were adults on paper. Yeah.

20:43.90
Betty Guadagno
Right.

20:44.60
Bill
We were adults by by the numbers that were on, you know our if you're added you know to our birth certificate. But I mean, my gosh, we weren't we certainly weren't adults. um But I mean, the the fact that the fact that you gave six months, I was i said, third that's why Mike's like, does that sound familiar?

20:59.58
Mike
yeah it

21:00.74
Bill
I said I was going to hang out for 30 days, maybe 60 days, six months. I never would have agreed to six fucking months at that point.

21:07.42
Mike
Right.

21:07.61
Bill
There's no way. Six months. I'm like, I was looking at a like, man, I'm going to chill. I can hang out here for a month and do nothing, which was, ah oh, they just would put us to fucking work the next day.

21:14.56
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

21:19.34
Bill
But yeah, the the refrigerator thing, that's kind of funny because the same thing, we we had to ask for permission to do fucking everything. But but you're right.

21:25.78
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

21:25.90
Mike
yeah

21:26.90
Bill
I mean, it's it it it does it. I don't have any issue asking for help these days, but what a great point that you just made. yeah But haven't gone the refrigerator. That's fucking crazy. But that's, we we couldn't go into the refrigerator though, right?

21:38.12
Bill
i could I guess come to think of it, yeah.

21:38.19
Mike
No, no, not for now.

21:39.15
Betty Guadagno
ah

21:39.79
Mike
No, not for the first three months.

21:41.69
Bill
Yeah, we weren't allowed in the kitchen.

21:44.25
Betty Guadagno
Right. Yeah. Well, I ended up staying there for a year and a half.

21:47.87
Mike
Yeah, that's yeah, us too.

21:48.00
Betty Guadagno
So yeah.

21:48.46
Bill
yeah

21:49.71
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

21:49.99
Bill
yeah

21:50.12
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

21:50.76
Mike
It was a nine month program. Yeah, we stayed. ah Yeah, exactly.

21:53.06
Betty Guadagno
Right. Me too. Yeah. art Yeah. Mine was a nine to 12 month program. But by the time that I made it to, by the time i made it to six months, which was the deal I made with myself, I was like, oh wait, I'm still homeless.

22:02.91
Mike
um for

22:04.77
Betty Guadagno
I still have no connections to anybody.

22:05.01
Mike
Yes.

22:06.65
Bill
hey

22:07.33
Mike
Uh huh.

22:07.57
Betty Guadagno
I still have no money. Like what exactly am I, lead like what do I think I'm leaving Yeah.

22:09.04
Mike
Yeah.

22:11.79
Mike
Yeah. What am I going to walk out to? Yeah.

22:13.81
Betty Guadagno
Right. I fucking, I have nothing.

22:14.18
Mike
Uh-huh.

22:16.04
Betty Guadagno
So thought, okay, I could definitely do at least six more months. And then by the time that I got to a year, I was like, okay, I definitely need six more months because, you know, they let me go to school and stuff and i got a job and, you know, but I still, I didn't know anything about anything.

22:23.43
Bill
Right.

22:23.48
Mike
Yeah.

22:26.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

22:32.57
Betty Guadagno
And I i needed to create a network for myself and recovery.

22:32.88
Bill
right

22:32.97
Mike
Yeah.

22:36.29
Betty Guadagno
Like I was so safe inside of that institution.

22:39.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

22:39.86
Betty Guadagno
So like I felt all my feelings. Like You know, I had a decade of grief that I had been running away from with the death of my parents, the death of my boyfriend, and I had never felt any of those feelings.

22:47.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

22:50.11
Betty Guadagno
I had just numbed them out.

22:51.96
Bill
right

22:52.01
Betty Guadagno
and then And then I decided, okay, well, this is where I'm going to feel these feelings. And they came in like a fucking tsunami, you know?

23:00.31
Mike
Yep.

23:00.89
Betty Guadagno
It wasn't like some little wave of grief.

23:00.94
Bill
right

23:02.85
Betty Guadagno
It was like, okay, this is a tidal wave that will literally knock the skin off of your body. And thank God I was somewhere safe because I never would have been able to handle those feelings without using behind them.

23:14.49
Betty Guadagno
But because I was locked inside of an institution, I had to.

23:14.99
Mike
Right.

23:17.77
Betty Guadagno
I was forced to. two

23:19.77
Mike
Yeah.

23:20.00
Bill
Right.

23:20.10
Betty Guadagno
and and you know.

23:20.79
Mike
And you were surrounded by other people doing the exact same thing.

23:24.58
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

23:24.58
Bill
right

23:25.25
Mike
Yes.

23:25.34
Bill
right

23:25.87
Mike
Yeah. That's the thing, right?

23:27.35
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

23:27.43
Mike
It's not that you were locked in. It was that you were there with other people doing the same thing. yeah Maybe not to the same degree, but certainly pretty close.

23:32.30
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

23:36.32
Mike
um Yeah. Right. And that's, that's the key to it. I mean, when Bill and I, you know, when we, When we left the facility, the Keating Center, we, I mean, we went got an apartment together for another couple of years. Cause I mean, we looked at each other when it was time to leave, cause it was time to leave.

23:52.93
Mike
And we were like, you know, are you ready to go do this on your own? No. Yeah. Me neither. Fuck. Let's go get a place. And so we did.

23:59.29
Bill
Yeah.

24:00.09
Mike
Yeah. You know, I mean, again, same thing, you know, I mean, thankfully, you know, I live by myself now and I fucking love it, but yeah.

24:08.01
Bill
Right.

24:09.27
Mike
But at a year and a half sober, there's no fucking way I was ready to do that.

24:14.02
Betty Guadagno
Right.

24:14.09
Bill
right

24:15.00
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

24:16.01
Bill
Yeah, it is. ah And the thing that is that we were in the the actual facility, then the three-quarter house, but we were surrounded by by people. But even in the three-quarter house, we were surrounded by, you know, a lot of the there's still chaos, you know, people being sent over to the three-quarter house that maybe weren't ready, weren't at the same.

24:34.47
Bill
Thankfully, at that point, we were kind of at a different level mentally. We wanted this thing and we were doing all the right things.

24:38.25
Mike
Mm-hmm, right

24:38.99
Bill
And ah the director kind of, you know, had us, we weren't in charge of, but he wanted us to keep an eye on things over there with two other guys. um But I mean, we were still dealing with, ah you know, a lot of the chaos. So we were being always within arm's distance of somebody to help us.

24:54.66
Bill
But then on top of that, we were, i don't want to say forced, but sort of forced to be there and help other people. We were just in ah in a positive whirlwind of of so sober activity.

24:59.78
Mike
Mm-hmm

25:04.29
Bill
And then, you know, by the time we got our place together, we still had each other to lean on, still went to the meetings, did all that stuff. But um it is, it's ah it's all about that, you know, that community and having that, especially early on, um being able to, you like you said, having that tsunami, that's a great way to put it, tsunami of things come at you, but, you know, being able to deal with it because you're in a safe place, right?

25:25.64
Betty Guadagno
Yeah, I think that – and, you know, despite what some men might think, an all-women's long-term rehab is not sexy pajama parties and pillow fights.

25:32.68
Mike
and No.

25:33.02
Bill
No.

25:33.40
Betty Guadagno
Like, it's fucking hardcore.

25:33.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

25:34.03
Bill
Nope.

25:35.48
Betty Guadagno
Like, yeah, those women – I mean, yeah everybody's mirroring each other's trauma back to each other.

25:35.76
Mike
yeah

25:41.10
Mike
who

25:41.33
Bill
Right.

25:41.65
Betty Guadagno
You know, and and on top of that, I was integrating this really extreme spiritual experience that I still didn't know what the fuck it was. I just thought that I was dead. I thought that I died and that I wasn't good enough to stay in heaven. And so they shipped me back down to earth and that I had to do recovery.

25:58.37
Betty Guadagno
in order to get back to heaven. So every time that I made it to a recovery milestone, I would cry out to God and be like, hey, God, I haven't used drugs in a month. Isn't that amazing? Are you coming back to get me yet?

26:07.68
Mike
Right.

26:09.24
Betty Guadagno
And I'd get i'd get no response.

26:09.60
Mike
Yeah.

26:11.55
Betty Guadagno
And then I'd make it to like a bigger goal. Like, okay, it's been six months. Okay, it's been a year. Okay, it's been two years. It's like, where where's the spaceship? Is it coming back to get me? Like, what's happening? But I learned so much while I was there. I learned a lot about myself. I learned about all of my My defects, you know, I, and I got to design the most authentic version of myself inside of that space because I had no idea who I was without drugs.

26:33.71
Bill
Right.

26:35.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

26:38.92
Betty Guadagno
Drugs were literally my whole personality. So you take away that personality and what's left? Fucking nothing. I'm a blank slate.

26:46.00
Mike
Right.

26:47.29
Betty Guadagno
I'm a clean canvas. But at first it didn't feel like that. It didn't feel like, oh, this is going to be the most creative project of your life, designing yourself. At first it was like you're a fucking idiot and you ruined your chance at a life because you wasted the whole first part of your life.

26:58.49
Mike
say

27:01.81
Mike
Right.

27:02.77
Betty Guadagno
And one day I just stopped beating myself up. I don't know what happened. I don't know how that shift happened. But one day when I woke up, it wasn't a it wasn't my inner critic beating me up. It was just like this soft, beautiful, benevolent voice that was like, hey, girl, let's get creating.

27:18.29
Betty Guadagno
And so I started trying on all these different spiritual principles that I wanted to embody as my truest self. Like I knew that I really wanted to be an honest person because my i spent my whole life lying.

27:27.29
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

27:29.49
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, like just keeping track of lies and manipulating and like lying for no reason. Like, hey, did you have for lunch?

27:36.75
Mike
Oh, yeah.

27:37.37
Betty Guadagno
Oh, macaroni and cheese. But girl, you know you had a hamburger. Like, what the fuck?

27:40.38
Mike
Yeah.

27:40.57
Betty Guadagno
Why are you lying about something so stupid?

27:41.28
Mike
Mm

27:42.85
Betty Guadagno
But that was just my default. And so, you know, I started to embody honesty. And then honesty went too far and I was like brutally honest all the time instead of being compassionate with my honesty.

27:50.73
Mike
hmm. Hmm.

27:53.27
Mike
Right.

27:53.65
Betty Guadagno
And I had to find the temperance in that. Or, you know, like even just being open-minded and being too open-minded, like having no discernment, right? So like a telemarketer or like a scammer calls you on the phone and they're like, all you have to do is send us $200 and you'll make $2,000.

28:03.18
Mike
Balance. Mm-hmm. Yep.

28:05.49
Bill
yeah

28:10.11
Betty Guadagno
And I'm like, oh my God, God wants me to be abundant. What a blessing. This is so cool. Yeah. And, you know, i had to like learn the hard way how to find temperance, how to find balance in all of those things, you know?

28:21.74
Mike
ballot

28:23.85
Betty Guadagno
Because as an addict, like it's always all or nothing. Like it's like delusions of grandeur and I'm a piece of shit.

28:26.93
Bill
Right?

28:30.53
Betty Guadagno
Like it's – where's the middle?

28:30.86
Mike
all

28:32.21
Betty Guadagno
Like there's there is no no middle. So, you know, the recovery process for me has been finding the middle. Like,

28:38.54
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

28:39.37
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

28:39.42
Mike
All of us. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that trust me, the word balance gets used on this show quite a lot.

28:45.83
Betty Guadagno
Right.

28:47.55
Bill
Yeah, it's ah it's impossible. and to to this but When you just said, you know, dilutions of grandeur and and I'm a piece of shit, we talk about that all the time too. and And I guess, number one, I'm not a depressed individual, but I talk about this all the time that I have these, there'll be every once in a while, I question why I'm in a good mood.

28:55.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:04.14
Bill
I'm like, why the fuck am I so happy right now? Cause there's nothing going on like particular in particular that would make me happy. But then it could be two minutes later, nothing happened. And I'm down in a gutter again, going, what the fuck is wrong with me?

29:16.49
Bill
You know, it is these, these highs and lows, these ebbs and flows. But what we we figured out, at least I think we figured out, right, Mike, just talking on here, is that um piece of shit is is my baseline.

29:23.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

29:27.58
Bill
You know, I mean, that's what I grew up with.

29:27.87
Betty Guadagno
Mm-hmm.

29:29.85
Bill
That's what I what i was. That's what I strive to be. um You know, and then this this version of myself, I'm... in my head, I'm not meant to be where I'm at. You know, I accept it and I'm grateful for it. And i work for it every day. Don't get me wrong. I don't think I'm, I'm not worthy of it, but I think in the back of my mind, I've always got to work. I've got to, it's walking up the down escalator as our example all the time.

29:52.50
Bill
I've got to keep working and walking and moving forward, or I'm going to go back down. Um, which is, it's a weird thing. I don't know that, you know, quote unquote, normal people understand that. Um, but it kind of sounds like that's what you're talking about a little bit. Yes. No.

30:05.03
Betty Guadagno
Yeah, definitely. I really resonate with what you're saying. Absolutely.

30:08.72
Bill
Yeah, it's just, it's ah it's it's a weird thing. I mean, recovery is a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong. But, um you know, it's it's a mind fuck every once in a while, just thinking that, you know, not not regretting the past or anything like that, but having your your mind, you know, this cunning and baffling thing that's still within our heads and the fact that,

30:27.19
Bill
You know, I mean, nobody asks us, thankfully, we've got good supportive people around us, but we hear it all the time. You know, people will talk to people in recovery and like, why do you have to still keep going to those meetings? Why you have to keep doing this thing every day?

30:38.66
Bill
Why do you do this every day? There are certain things that Mike and I do on a, you know, obviously separately, but almost ah to the same degree every single day, you know, no exceptions. It's reading, it's prayers, it's doing this, it's doing that.

30:51.71
Bill
You know, and we, if we don't do something like that, it may not be tomorrow, but it's going to be pretty quickly. We're going to be fucked again. You know?

30:58.21
Mike
yeah right the simple thing you know making our beds every day right you know that's yeah it's a big one you know it

31:02.32
Betty Guadagno
Mm-hmm.

31:02.63
Bill
Right.

31:04.74
Mike
yeah yeah, make your bed. And my bed is made every day. You know, I mean, I talked about it on here plenty times. you know, I was a truck, um I am a truck driver, but I was on the road for a long time um in sobriety.

31:16.88
Mike
And I mean, you know, there was a bed in the back of the truck and, Nobody he ever saw it. Nobody ever went in the truck but me. That bunk was made up every day because it was just something I had to do.

31:28.67
Mike
You know, am I going to go get a handle of vodka because if I don't make that up? um Probably not. But guess what? I'm not taking the chance.

31:37.99
Betty Guadagno
Yes. I love all the things that got like deeply ingrained inside of me, inside that institution.

31:42.71
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

31:43.50
Betty Guadagno
I make my bed every day.

31:45.32
Mike
Right.

31:45.75
Betty Guadagno
um i drink a liter of water as soon as I wake up. I mean, the institution didn't tell me to do that.

31:49.22
Bill
Really?

31:50.75
Betty Guadagno
Like that's something that I did on my own. I'm actually in recovery. i am a sugar-free, gluten-free vegan who only drinks water and exercises my body.

32:01.65
Betty Guadagno
Okay. I used to eat pills out of other people's puke.

32:01.87
Bill
Nice.

32:02.41
Mike
he

32:05.32
Mike
Sure.

32:05.38
Betty Guadagno
That is like actually a piece of my story.

32:07.94
Mike
Yeah, right.

32:08.19
Betty Guadagno
So transformation is possible. and like And that institution that I was in and the 12-step fellowship that I'm a part of teach me that I can have freedom in all areas of my life.

32:11.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

32:18.52
Betty Guadagno
It's not just about like letting go of drugs. When I let go of drugs, And alcohol, you know, all of these eating disorders manifested in my life. And those eating disorders were always there.

32:28.75
Betty Guadagno
And in fact, sugar and food were probably my first addiction in my life that I coped with.

32:32.82
Mike
Right.

32:34.24
Betty Guadagno
But I was so sedated from being so fucked up all the time that I didn't even realize that I had eating disorders, even though I was like 300 pounds and, you know, like really did not take care of my body at all.

32:45.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

32:45.94
Betty Guadagno
And so then i let go of all the drugs and i'm like, oh, fuck, yeah, i have ah I have really bad eating disorders. I have... um Like, you know, I have addiction to porn and masturbating. I have codependency. I have limerence. That's like when you get addicted to the the fantasy of a person.

33:03.88
Betty Guadagno
Like I had whole relationships with made up people inside my head for fucking years, years of my life.

33:03.84
Bill
Mm-hmm.

33:05.81
Mike
Right. Cool.

33:08.52
Mike
right

33:10.15
Betty Guadagno
And I had to slowly let each one of those go. And i I did the same thing that I did for my drug addiction to let go of all of those other things.

33:16.57
Mike
listen

33:17.88
Betty Guadagno
And I have years of freedom away from all those other manifestations of addiction in my life.

33:23.59
Mike
cool

33:24.64
Bill
Yeah. And that's, so i mean, that's kind of a, it's amazing. Yeah. the The things that, and we talk about it all the time, I mean, putting down the, the original substances, whether it's drugs, alcohol, or both.

33:35.32
Bill
I mean, again, that's, those are, you know, as we're taught in the program, i mean, it's just, it's just a symptom. And then all these other things, like you just said, all these other things can come out, but you have the ability now to deal with them, whatever it is, whether it's a health issue or another sort of obsession or addiction or whatever the case is,

33:50.32
Bill
We have ah you know the clear head now. um I never thought that I was sore. i'm i'm like i've i've got all these you know I'm sore all the goddamn times, probably because I never felt it. you know But i mean if i something happens, i mean I know that I can go to a doctor.

33:59.49
Betty Guadagno
Hmm.

34:02.70
Bill
I know that this can happen. um i I do. i I'm not an exercise freak, but I do. I get out and i walk and I go on hiking trails. I do things that I never would have thought about doing before because I didn't care. I do watch what I eat now.

34:15.03
Bill
i haven't had I haven't had McDonald's since I've been sober, you know.

34:17.79
Betty Guadagno
Nice.

34:18.31
Bill
um And it was just that I stopped doing it because I was away from my son for a few months and I used to take him. It wasn't his fault. I love McDonald's food. Love it. um But it it was never making me feel good. And I just, I wasn't going there anymore because I didn't have my son to go to the play playroom or playground area.

34:35.09
Bill
And then um I think mike Mike and I, we were talking about, i think the last time that I had, he and I went through a went through drive-thru drive-thru Cleveland at like one o'clock in the morning, fucking stone cold, sober, like seven, eight years ago.

34:46.06
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

34:47.19
Bill
And I mean, you know, you drive up to the window, the people kind of looking at you. We're, we're just fine. I mean, we two big bags of fucking food, but we're sober. um But I mean, I think that's the last time I had Burger King, you know, I mean, I'll eat some, you know, over the counter type of food like that, but very rare.

35:00.71
Bill
But the whole point is, is just that, yeah, the, the freedom, I love the fact that you use freedom. We talk about that all the time. ah But real quick question. And We have a ton of female friends that went through sober living facilities. So when you said that, we get it.

35:14.69
Mike
Oh, yeah

35:14.95
Betty Guadagno
Yeah,

35:15.01
Bill
Number one, we we get that. It's not pillow fights and, you know, in sexy lingerie.

35:18.19
Betty Guadagno
yeah.

35:18.61
Mike
yeah.

35:18.97
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

35:19.25
Bill
Maybe at some place it might be in in what Malibu, right, Mike? yeah

35:22.50
Mike
Sure. Right. I used to be an addict and now I'm not.

35:25.10
Bill
yeah But um but the other thing, my other question for you, do you still have friends from that that facility or no?

35:32.28
Betty Guadagno
Yes, I do. i

35:33.50
Mike
hmm.

35:34.19
Betty Guadagno
it's It's so cool that you guys are talking about like how you guys got an apartment together. So the two girls that I'm still friends with, they got an apartment together and they they still live together now.

35:41.35
Mike
Right.

35:41.52
Bill
Right.

35:43.31
Betty Guadagno
It's like so many years later. But um yeah, one of the girls we work together, we've like ascended in our careers and the recovery field together. And we always take each other with us wherever we go as we like continue on catapulting towards the you know our our goals and our dreams, as what we what we do with our careers.

36:00.55
Bill
right Oh, yeah.

36:02.71
Betty Guadagno
And you know there's lots of girls. Some of the girls died that I was in there with. um A lot of them relapsed.

36:06.71
Mike
Oh yeah.

36:07.24
Bill
Yep.

36:08.39
Betty Guadagno
And know I had this really cool ah experience of being able to go back into the rehab with my 12-step fellowship in the hospitals and institutions portion of the fellowship and

36:08.90
Bill
Yep.

36:19.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

36:19.86
Betty Guadagno
bring the message back to, you know, different women inside of there.

36:21.02
Bill
Right.

36:21.10
Mike
Right.

36:24.17
Betty Guadagno
And like there was literally, I've never had a service commitment that lit me up more than that service commitment did because I, it just felt so full circle for me.

36:30.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

36:33.88
Bill
right

36:33.96
Betty Guadagno
You know, i I was always gawking at the women that would come into the facility when I was there.

36:37.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

36:38.12
Betty Guadagno
And I was like, I hope one day I could be like them. And now I am, I am them now, you know?

36:41.21
Mike
Right. Yep.

36:43.64
Betty Guadagno
And really what I wanted was to be a model of consistency, right? Like I had never seen anybody be consistent in my life.

36:47.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

36:51.28
Mike
Right.

36:51.52
Bill
right

36:51.60
Betty Guadagno
And those women came into the facility every single week. Didn't matter if it was a fucking snowstorm outside, if it was raining, if it was 100 degrees, they always, always showed up.

36:55.91
Mike
Yep.

37:03.02
Betty Guadagno
And I just wanted to model consistency to people in my own life. And I am. i am a consistent person today.

37:08.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

37:09.65
Betty Guadagno
it's It's like, yeah, it's totally miraculous. It really, really is.

37:12.19
Mike
Yeah, right. Well, act as if.

37:14.14
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. Yeah.

37:14.44
Bill
right

37:16.12
Mike
Just, yeah I mean, it's one of my, we shared a sponsor for a while and um you one of the greatest quotes is he says, you know, AA is the exact opposite of psychology, right? Psychologists, they they want to change the way you act yeah know by changing the way you think.

37:32.01
Mike
AA wants to change the way you think by the way you act.

37:34.65
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

37:35.37
Mike
Yes.

37:35.52
Betty Guadagno
Love that.

37:36.35
Mike
Yeah, and that's that's just it. you know actually you know Stop lying and you become an honest person. Stop stealing and you're not a thief anymore.

37:44.34
Betty Guadagno
Right.

37:44.54
Mike
it's yeah right.

37:45.80
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

37:46.03
Mike
Yeah.

37:48.79
Bill
Yeah, well, Mike mike did group for for years.

37:50.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

37:51.03
Bill
And even when I was still out in Cleveland, because i um we I was out there for like three and a half years and then moved back to Wisconsin. And I've you know kicked around a little bit since then. But um you started doing group, Mike, when?

38:03.00
Bill
A couple years? or right We were in the...

38:04.57
Mike
Oh, no, three-quarter. I started doing – he – one week, he he ah the director, Marty, he was like, okay, all the three-quarter guys, you're coming in and doing group.

38:07.54
Bill
Was it really? Okay.

38:16.91
Mike
So all the three-quarter guys came in.

38:17.41
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah.

38:19.11
Mike
We all went in and did group. And then the next week, we were all supposed to do it, and I think maybe four of us showed up.

38:26.74
Bill
Right.

38:26.76
Mike
And then the third week, I was the only one there. Yeah.

38:29.04
Betty Guadagno
Oh no.

38:30.99
Mike
And I just continued to do it that way for years. You know, I went back on the road, so I couldn't do it for a while. um And then I got a pretty ah set schedule. So I consistently did it again for a bunch of years. um They kind of changed some things at the facility. They do things a little differently now.

38:49.12
Mike
And my brand of going in there and telling them to shut the fuck up and... do what we do and we don't care how you feel.

38:54.82
Bill
and

38:57.24
Mike
And, um, yeah, it doesn't kind of jibe with what they're doing now. So that's cool. I'm all good with that, but so I don't do it anymore, but I'd love to. Yeah. You know, but I do yeah service at my home group and blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

39:10.83
Mike
I'm still, you know, 15 plus years later doing shit for drunk somewhere in my life every week have to, cause that's part of the deal, right?

39:15.54
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

39:17.80
Bill
Right.

39:18.07
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

39:19.33
Mike
You know, pray, go to meetings, help another drunk.

39:19.40
Betty Guadagno
right

39:21.67
Mike
Okay, fine.

39:22.33
Bill
heck Yeah. And you and Betty, you were talking about consistency too. And there it's, it's funny because I mean, I don't, I'm not back in Cleveland as much as I used to be, but when I go back um almost, almost every time, except for founders, see weekend can um Mike and I'll hit a meeting, at least whether it's his home group, but we'll go to a different meeting.

39:39.71
Mike
Right. Right.

39:41.55
Bill
And what it a couple of years ago when we saw Bob and Chris at Stella Maris and then one other, Yeah.

39:45.96
Mike
yeah

39:47.31
Bill
So we were down at at this meeting and there was two guys that one guy had bounced back and forth for a number of years. One guy had been sober for a while and then came back. And, you know, I mean, they both knew that we were still sober, but every once in a while we'll see people and like the two of us are still together. We, Mike and I have become family over the years.

40:03.38
Mike
right

40:03.66
Bill
um We consider ourselves to be brothers more than anything else. I mean, he became part of um the, the biological family that was mine and now it's ours, if that makes sense.

40:13.18
Mike
Yeah, right.

40:13.32
Betty Guadagno
Hmm. Hmm.

40:14.23
Bill
You know, so that's how we've, you know, remained together. We, we lived together, but then again, we became family. But so people got used to seeing us together, you know, 15 years ago, 12 years ago, 13 years ago.

40:26.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

40:26.58
Bill
And then, you know, we'll walk into a meeting together. People like, they're like, Jesus Christ, you guys just don't, I mean, it's, it's a flashback to, you know, again, whatever it was 10, 15 years ago.

40:30.71
Mike
Yeah.

40:31.87
Betty Guadagno
Hmm.

40:34.94
Mike
yeah

40:36.17
Bill
And then, you know, we've had people say to us, they're like, oh, you guys are still around. We're like, yeah. And still sober too, you know, consistently.

40:40.36
Mike
Yeah, and still sober. Yeah.

40:41.79
Bill
Yeah.

40:41.88
Mike
Check that out, motherfucker.

40:42.43
Bill
Consistently.

40:43.59
Mike
Hey.

40:43.70
Betty Guadagno
Right.

40:43.77
Mike
Right.

40:44.97
Bill
Yeah, and it's just, it's a, it's, it's, we've seen so many people, and you mentioned it before too, Betty, you know, people that relapse, people that have died. We lost count, you know, with all those, all those circumstances.

40:53.98
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

40:55.60
Bill
And it is a matter of, um you know, this, like Mike just said, drink, or I mean, don't drink.

41:01.42
Mike
hey

41:01.77
Bill
No, don't drink, pray, go to meetings, help another alcoholic. And it was the thing we went through.

41:05.11
Mike
right

41:05.92
Bill
You know, I couldn't grasp the fact that it was that simple. You know, so all these guys had the same solution that we did. All these women had the same solution that you did. You know, why us and not them? And we figured it out.

41:16.70
Bill
You know, the big secret is that consistency, do the work every single day. Right. I mean, it sounds like that's what you're doing, at least from what it sounds like.

41:23.42
Betty Guadagno
Definitely.

41:24.12
Bill
Yeah.

41:24.30
Mike
Yep.

41:24.53
Betty Guadagno
Definitely. Yeah. It's actually really fucking simple. I had no idea.

41:28.55
Mike
Yep.

41:28.73
Betty Guadagno
it takes i It takes me a fraction of the energy that I used fucking staying strung out.

41:28.89
Mike
Yep. Yeah. Right.

41:32.71
Mike
Mm-hmm. he

41:36.77
Betty Guadagno
I use literally maybe 10% of that energy to stay clean.

41:36.84
Bill
Right.

41:37.00
Mike
yep

41:40.66
Mike
yeah

41:41.46
Bill
right

41:41.53
Mike
right

41:41.86
Betty Guadagno
But, you know, and I was avoiding pain. And, you know, i work in the field of substance use disorder now and I do a lot of outreach on the streets of New York City. We go out, meet myself and a collection of peers that I supervise, and you know we hand out snacks and try to get homeless people connected to care if you know if they want it, which nobody does.

42:01.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

42:01.47
Betty Guadagno
But um you know like I see real suffering.

42:02.02
Mike
Right.

42:05.44
Betty Guadagno
and And then, I mean, like real, real fucked up suffering, like stuff that just, the images, they stick in my head for weeks.

42:10.71
Bill
Right.

42:10.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

42:14.71
Betty Guadagno
months. I mean, like some some people have stuck in my head for years.

42:18.21
Mike
Right.

42:18.60
Betty Guadagno
and And then I have this great opportunity to go into my 12-step fellowship and go to a meeting and see people who are interested in recovery, whether they have one day, they're lying about their clean time, or they fucking have 40 years.

42:27.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

42:33.24
Bill
right

42:33.25
Mike
Right.

42:33.66
Betty Guadagno
And my world is so full of this dual experience where I'm seeing every end of the spectrum. Like I'm seeing you know, the grips, the horrors of active addiction in the faces of these people on the street.

42:46.89
Betty Guadagno
And then I'm seeing people who inspire me, who I want to be like when I get, you know, into the decades of being clean when I grow up.

42:53.51
Mike
When I grow up.

42:54.90
Bill
Right.

42:54.92
Mike
Yep.

42:55.21
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. When I grow up, I want to, I want to be like them.

42:55.46
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Right. yeah

42:57.72
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, like for me, it's sometimes it can be hard to find balance, like balance, again, balance, right.

42:57.74
Mike
yep

43:03.78
Bill
right

43:03.96
Betty Guadagno
find Find grounding in that experience.

43:04.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:05.88
Betty Guadagno
But I'm so grateful that my higher power has set me up in a way where I love service. I love being of service, whether it's inside the 12-step fellowship or it's what I do with my career.

43:17.60
Betty Guadagno
i just, I really enjoy being there for other people. I caused so much fucking harm to people in my life. I mean, like ah unspeakable atrocities to other people.

43:24.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:24.94
Bill
Right.

43:28.29
Mike
Yep.

43:28.57
Betty Guadagno
And now I have this opportunity to make a universal amends. You know, I can't go back in time. I can't fix what I did, but I can do better now.

43:34.11
Bill
right

43:35.63
Betty Guadagno
And like, I harmed so many women.

43:36.11
Mike
Yeah.

43:39.41
Betty Guadagno
Inactive addiction, like I would prostitute myself. I would get other women strung out on drugs. I would prostitute them. i would manipulate them. i would watch them get abused and raped and I wouldn't do anything about it.

43:50.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

43:50.88
Betty Guadagno
And now I have this opportunity to actually assist women on their healing journeys.

43:55.75
Mike
Yeah.

43:55.97
Betty Guadagno
And it's more than I ever could have thought for myself. And in the beginning, I felt so unworthy of that. Like, how how am I worthy of this?

44:01.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

44:03.48
Betty Guadagno
But, you know, honestly, through working the steps in a 12-step program, the amount of freedom that you get is just, I mean, it's beyond anything, anything.

44:12.18
Mike
Absolutely.

44:12.52
Bill
Right.

44:13.22
Mike
Yeah, right. Well, I mean, you know, I mean, we've talked about on here tons times, but I mean, you know, my self-worth today, I'm worthy today because i have worth to other people, you know?

44:24.62
Betty Guadagno
Oh, I love that.

44:24.57
Mike
Yeah, that I mean, that's just it.

44:24.90
Bill
right

44:25.64
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. Hmm.

44:26.47
Mike
That's right. I mean, because I spent decades of my life only caring about myself and I got nothing out of it, but i I'm worthwhile to someone else. And all of a sudden I have true worth because of that.

44:40.12
Mike
You know, our He hates grand sponsor, but our sponsor's sponsor. sponsor

44:44.07
Bill
hey

44:45.10
Mike
Right. he's ah He calls it AA Math. It doesn't add up. how does How does me doing something for someone else make my life better? I don't know. i still don't know. I probably never will know. But I do know that if I do something for someone else, my life gets better.

45:00.38
Mike
And that's amazing.

45:02.00
Bill
right

45:02.77
Betty Guadagno
Yes. Love that. Everything I give, I receive. i mean, it's not it's not like a 12-step principle, but it's from another spiritual text that i really love.

45:06.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

45:08.65
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

45:09.78
Bill
Sure.

45:11.10
Betty Guadagno
Everything I give, I receive. If I give acts of service, I will receive acts of service.

45:15.20
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

45:16.00
Betty Guadagno
If I give judgment and defensiveness, I will receive judgment and defensiveness.

45:19.91
Mike
here

45:20.47
Betty Guadagno
Everything I give, I receive.

45:20.56
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, and I know we're getting close to to your time when you need to, you know, head out. So um I'm going to have, and I want you to kind of recap at anything that you want to let people know that you're doing. I mean, you touched on your, a little bit of what you do in your career, but I know, I believe you do some coaching. You've got a website, all those things that would, obviously, if you want to talk about them, but.

45:42.61
Bill
I have your your Instagram ah profile tagged in, obviously, the description. I have that the promos all week. Is that ah enough, or do you want me to put your website link in in the description of this also?

45:53.91
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. any Anything that you feel called to would be great. I'd love to connect with anybody. I do have a website. It's buddhabetty.com. It's just a play on words.

46:01.70
Mike
hey

46:02.60
Betty Guadagno
I'm not really a Buddha. Not yet.

46:03.82
Mike
Well, right.

46:04.26
Betty Guadagno
Not yet anyway. um But yeah, you know i do I do transformation coaching with people. you know I have a day job where like obviously I'm out in the streets of New York and then I come home and I do my private coaching to like affluent people who can afford a private coach.

46:19.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

46:19.74
Betty Guadagno
It's like, again, like just the actual two ends of a totally weird spectrum. But that the thing that it shows me is that everybody is struggling in some way.

46:25.92
Bill
Right.

46:31.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

46:31.67
Bill
Right.

46:32.55
Betty Guadagno
Everybody thinks that they are struggling. They are perceiving a real struggle in their life. And

46:37.12
Mike
Sure.

46:37.77
Betty Guadagno
People need other people. you know like I know the power of community.

46:39.77
Mike
Yep.

46:41.84
Betty Guadagno
like We came here. like when the beginning of time, you needed a tribe of people to stay alive or you'd get eaten by a fucking tiger.

46:47.99
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

46:50.36
Betty Guadagno
you know So like why do we think that anything has changed? And this is why 12 Step works so well, because you're part of a community and it's governed by something bigger than any of the people inside of it.

46:56.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

46:57.77
Bill
Right. Right.

46:58.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

47:03.46
Mike
Right.

47:03.52
Betty Guadagno
And so, you know, I started a community. We have spiritual sharing groups multiple times a week. And for me, that's been like my greatest service to myself and to humanity, to just create space for people to talk about their weird spiritual experiences that they might not have other space to talk about them in.

47:22.82
Bill
right

47:22.99
Mike
Hmm.

47:23.96
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

47:25.15
Bill
Yeah, but I mean, i don't know. I mean, like you said, it's ah that's that's a good point, though, at the beginning of time. You get eaten by something if you didn't have a tribe. And, you know, in the the thing with it is, I mean, we've been and we were introduced to and, you know, grew up through, you know, 12-step programs and that philosophy.

47:33.65
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

47:41.72
Bill
And we're all about that. That's where we come from. But we've learned and we've been doing this for three and a half years, a little bit over that.

47:48.36
Mike
and

47:48.91
Bill
in that timeframe, but um have had a number of different people that have been on with different different ways of getting sober, staying sober. Some people walked into AA and kind of like you explained to begin with, Betty, where like, I don't really understand what these people are talking about, but you stayed and you or you went back, I think, whatever the case was, but you ended up there.

48:07.76
Betty Guadagno
Mm-hmm.

48:09.44
Bill
A lot of people, there's a number of people that don't. And I knew nothing. I think we knew ah very little about all these different ways to to get and stay sober. And our mindset now, and Mike, you say it all the time, what as long as people aren't doing what, they're fine, right?

48:23.33
Bill
Yeah.

48:23.42
Mike
Yeah, as long as you're not hurting somebody else, as long as it's making you ah better person and it's it's helping you to help other people, i don't give a fuck what you do.

48:31.91
Bill
Yeah.

48:32.94
Betty Guadagno
Yes, I totally agree. And you you know, like, because I work in the field of of substance use disorder, like the whole model is harm reduction.

48:34.46
Mike
if

48:39.89
Betty Guadagno
You know, they don't, they don't preach abstinence.

48:40.30
Mike
Right.

48:41.89
Betty Guadagno
Like they don't tell you to go to a meeting or anything. They just say like, Hey, whatever you think is right for you. But I know that I can't be making decisions for myself because I, yeah, I got myself in trouble in the first place.

48:47.78
Mike
e Right. or Yeah, no.

48:50.57
Bill
Right.

48:53.00
Betty Guadagno
Like I said before, like I'm not the, I'm not the one, like I'm not the one to be making decisions about my recovery or anything.

48:53.32
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah, right.

48:59.96
Betty Guadagno
Um, But I do know that there's, you know, there's all these really cool things in New York too. Like we have all these different um like sober activity things that go on for like young people.

49:05.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

49:11.58
Betty Guadagno
It's just around, having activities. like They go to basketball games together. They go to the park. They do yoga.

49:17.49
Mike
hey

49:17.81
Betty Guadagno
They do sober paint and sips and stuff. and you know there's this whole ah you know We have so many resources. There's so many different ways. It's not one size fits all. I would never pretend like it is.

49:29.00
Betty Guadagno
I just know what works for me.

49:29.38
Bill
Right.

49:30.83
Mike
Right.

49:30.91
Bill
Oh, God, yeah.

49:31.22
Betty Guadagno
and i mean Obviously, that guy on the train, that was a sign from God.

49:31.43
Bill
Right.

49:34.58
Betty Guadagno
like i know I know that I'm supposed to be in my 12-step fellowship. I'm not going anywhere, even though I can't fucking stand some of the personalities inside there.

49:42.39
Mike
Oh, yeah.

49:42.79
Betty Guadagno
You know, I want to kill people in there all the time.

49:42.83
Mike
Oh, yeah.

49:43.23
Bill
Oh, sure. Right.

49:44.55
Mike
Of course. Well, i'm something about principles before personalities.

49:45.79
Betty Guadagno
But

49:48.58
Betty Guadagno
I, had yeah, it's my least, my least favorite spiritual principle is that one.

49:49.10
Mike
I've heard that somewhere.

49:54.89
Betty Guadagno
But, but, you know, I, yes, I know it, it,

49:55.57
Mike
Right. Well, why is that? Because it's the one that, yeah, it's because it's the fucking hardest one.

49:59.86
Betty Guadagno
it Yeah, it is.

50:00.76
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.

50:01.64
Betty Guadagno
It really is. But you know i I stay because I know that that's where I'm supposed to be. I feel it deep inside my bones.

50:05.50
Mike
hu

50:07.32
Betty Guadagno
And it's not for everybody.

50:07.58
Mike
right

50:08.00
Betty Guadagno
In fact, one of the first times that I went to 12-step meeting, the first time I ever went to a meeting, I was like 18, just out of high school. And you know some guy 13-stepped me and I was like, oh, look, every everybody likes me.

50:16.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

50:20.54
Betty Guadagno
I'm beautiful here, whatever.

50:21.49
Mike
Right.

50:22.54
Betty Guadagno
And then I came back right after my parents died. I went back and I went to a meeting and I was like just in the throes of desperation. My parents had just fucking committed suicide. i was you know I was 23.

50:35.57
Betty Guadagno
was desperate. i did not want to use. I had just detoxed myself and I was like, I don't want to use behind this, but I honestly don't know how I'm going to survive.

50:40.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

50:45.12
Betty Guadagno
And I went to a meeting and I shared a burning desire and I i don't even know if anybody could even understand what I said because I was blubbering so badly.

50:52.26
Mike
sir

50:54.33
Betty Guadagno
But I did say, i don't believe in God, but I think I might believe in this.

50:59.17
Mike
Right.

50:59.23
Betty Guadagno
And some some lady came up to me after and she said, don't come back here until you believe in God.

51:03.91
Mike
Oh, fuck you.

51:04.43
Bill
Really?

51:04.93
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

51:05.00
Bill
Oh man. Wow.

51:06.20
Betty Guadagno
And I was like, okay, that's all I needed to hear. And I used that as an excuse for fucking 10 years to not go back because I said, oh, well, this one lady said this one thing to me this one time.

51:08.82
Mike
Right. Of course. Yes, of course. Yeah.

51:17.31
Mike
ah sir That's awful.

51:19.00
Betty Guadagno
And, you know, i I prolonged my own pain because of like one person saying something that was triggering to me.

51:22.43
Bill
Right.

51:22.60
Mike
Right. Yeah.

51:25.60
Betty Guadagno
I didn't have to listen to her if I didn't want to, you know?

51:25.69
Mike
yeah I know, but Jesus Christ.

51:28.56
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

51:29.26
Mike
Yeah.

51:29.56
Betty Guadagno
I know.

51:29.62
Mike
well I mean, you know, I, I'm still an atheist with 15 plus years sober, um, working the program of 12 steps.

51:29.96
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

51:37.69
Mike
And, uh, yeah, I, I make sure every time I share and lead and all that happy crap, I make sure I tell people, look, I'm an atheist. Um, you know, and this works for me because I work it.

51:49.67
Mike
So, you know, don't let that scare you off. Don't let the God thing scare you off because, you know it's It's right there. God, as you understand it, you know a power greater than yourself. That's all it needs to be.

52:00.82
Mike
Something bigger than you. That's all you need. And that's absolute truth. That's all you need. I'm living proof of it.

52:07.86
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

52:08.08
Bill
right

52:08.18
Betty Guadagno
And it can change, you know, like the conception that I had of a higher power when I first came in, i don't believe anything that I believed then now, you know?

52:09.96
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yeah, right.

52:12.91
Bill
Oh, huge.

52:13.03
Mike
Mine is.

52:13.43
Bill
Yeah.

52:15.22
Mike
No, no, me neither. Mine's grown quite a bit too.

52:16.60
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. Yes.

52:17.96
Mike
Still an atheist, but yeah, it's grown and changed and gotten richer and bigger.

52:18.28
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

52:22.67
Mike
And yeah, hell yeah. Hopefully it's going to tomorrow too.

52:25.66
Betty Guadagno
Yes, yes, I love that.

52:27.69
Mike
and for

52:27.90
Bill
Yeah, we had we had. Thankfully, rather than having somebody tell us that, you know, go away until you believe in God, because I'm at best agnostic. But we had one of our, who ended up being one of our good friends, said, um you don't have to believe. You don't have to pick a higher power or believe in God. Just know that you're not it.

52:42.91
Mike
Yep.

52:43.06
Betty Guadagno
Yes.

52:43.05
Bill
And that was it. That's what he told us that this whole group of these, these young, and not only young ish people, except for us, maybe.

52:50.83
Mike
Right.

52:50.90
Bill
yeah

52:51.37
Mike
Right.

52:51.56
Bill
um But I mean, young in the program, you know, you know, 20, 30, 45 days, something like that. This room of 30, 40 guys of that thing. and And that was a it was a game changer, you know, so huge.

53:03.03
Bill
Absolutely huge.

53:03.14
Betty Guadagno
Yeah. You know, when I was like really struck struggling with my eating disorders and I was and working the first three steps with my sponsor and, you know, she was like, we can turn this over. You can turn this over. Do you believe that God wants to help you with this? And I was like, absolutely not.

53:18.61
Betty Guadagno
I do not believe that. I believe that God loves me enough to help me with my drug addiction.

53:20.13
Mike
right

53:22.89
Betty Guadagno
But like, I do not believe that that God wants to help me with this eating disorder.

53:23.32
Mike
Mm.

53:27.68
Mike
Mm.

53:27.82
Betty Guadagno
And she said, well, you don't have to believe, just believe that I believe.

53:31.52
Mike
Mm.

53:31.82
Betty Guadagno
And that is that was all I needed to hear.

53:32.03
Mike
Yeah.

53:34.02
Betty Guadagno
And that sentence, I i let go of my eating disorder right after that because i because I realized that I don't have to have it all figured out.

53:34.40
Mike
Right.

53:41.75
Betty Guadagno
Like I just have to have faith in something else.

53:41.81
Mike
Right.

53:44.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

53:44.77
Betty Guadagno
It doesn't even have to be God. It could just be another person.

53:46.35
Mike
Right.

53:47.29
Betty Guadagno
Like I i trust this woman.

53:47.58
Mike
Yeah.

53:49.17
Betty Guadagno
I believe what she's saying to me.

53:50.82
Mike
Yeah.

53:51.58
Betty Guadagno
And that was enough to help.

53:51.58
Bill
Right.

53:51.60
Mike
Yeah. Absolutely.

53:54.48
Bill
Cool.

53:54.60
Betty Guadagno
Yeah.

53:55.35
Bill
Well, all right. So I'm, I'm looking at the time and I'm guessing that you probably have to have to scoot out of here. Am I correct?

54:00.60
Betty Guadagno
Yes. Thanks so much, guys. This was so amazing. they And again, thanks for your service to the collective.

54:02.99
Mike
Oh, this is cool.

54:03.36
Bill
Yeah.

54:05.83
Betty Guadagno
This is so cool to create conscious space for people to talk about recovery, you know, like just taking all this stigma out of it.

54:07.32
Mike
if you Yes. Thank you.

54:12.45
Betty Guadagno
Like we, we yeah, I love to recover out loud.

54:14.02
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

54:15.86
Bill
Yeah. I mean, that that's cool in itself. I mean, we, we truly, truly, truly appreciate it. So the last thing, last thing I'll say before Mike runs us into the break here is just um if you ever have time, you want to come back, let us know. We'd love to love to chat some more.

54:28.14
Betty Guadagno
Absolutely. Thanks guys so much.

54:30.09
Bill
Yeah. Not a problem, Mike.

54:30.21
Mike
Cool. So don't go anywhere, Betty. And we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

54:32.97
Betty Guadagno
I,

54:34.37
Bill
Thank you.

00:01.87
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. It's kind of funny. I almost welcomed us back into like a brand new show or something.

00:08.18
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:09.37
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ. Well, you know what? it It kind of is. I mean, this is the, it was been a while.

00:13.91
Mike
Welcome to another episode of Sober Not

00:18.05
Bill
This is, this is our, our half and half, actually more than half. ah No, this is our 33 and a third percent of, of our episodes.

00:24.34
Mike
Yes.

00:25.64
Bill
So yeah, we got, Ooh, 66.6% with,

00:27.90
Mike
Point six. Yes, we've already done.

00:30.74
Bill
yeah But, yeah, so and I don't know if if she happens to listen to this episode, if not, or anyone that stuck with us. um Yeah, Mike and i were just shooting the shit real quick for as we were setting up or getting the other one done.

00:42.88
Bill
um Yeah, that was great. um she was She was wonderful. But, yeah, and it sounds like she had a good time because she's like, hey, you know, you guys are good recovery stuff. She might send some other people our way. So, I don't know.

00:51.34
Mike
Right.

00:52.22
Bill
I mean, it's one thing for us to enjoy people, but I never know how they're going to. it's and she like did she like us back?

00:56.06
Mike
Right. you like us?

00:58.51
Bill
Huh? Did she?

00:59.20
Mike
Yes.

01:00.53
Bill
Were we okay? ah guess I guess we were. so But no, I mean, goddamn. It was a lot of fun. So, Chris, thank you. Thank you for referring that along.

01:06.80
Mike
yes

01:08.73
Bill
I guess guess you get to hang out for a little bit longer with, well, at least but yeah us, I guess, right?

01:12.25
Mike
Wow.

01:16.29
Bill
Wait, can it um might I might edit that. That might be the first edit ever. again might Get my fucking ass kicked by that little woman.

01:22.47
Mike
yeah Just pull your foot out of your mouth and you'll be fine.

01:25.64
Bill
and No, serious, Chris. that was ah That was a good one. she was She was a lot of fun. She was a lot of fun.

01:30.53
Mike
Yeah.

01:30.77
Bill
So, yeah, and it, I don't know, it's, once again, you know, we've we've had that happen only, not happen, but we've done that with a couple of different people where they've only been available for a certain period of time. And the fuck that what the fuck do we care?

01:41.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:42.98
Bill
and why And why are why are we going to quit at one hour?

01:43.38
Mike
I've not.

01:45.29
Bill
We got to keep talking.

01:46.38
Mike
Right.

01:49.04
Bill
Okay, so real quick here, speaking of speaking of podcast stuff, so you were asking me about podcast stuff, right, weren't you?

01:52.22
Mike
Yes. Was i What about some podcast stuff, Bill?

01:55.57
Bill
No.

01:58.74
Bill
So, um so that the feed spot thing where we're ranked as far as the website ranking and,

02:03.52
Mike
I'm very rank.

02:06.40
Bill
Okay. Anyhow. So, so, so feed spot is the, the web, obviously what people pay attention if they don't fuck them.

02:07.64
Mike
Hehehehehe.

02:14.33
Bill
We actually got ranked. We get, we get ranked on a website and we've been either number, number two, three, ah but we've been in the top five for a long time. We've been in the number two spot for a very long time.

02:24.53
Mike
Yes.

02:25.00
Bill
We just dropped down to number three recently and we'll bounce back and forth in there, but whatever.

02:27.26
Mike
Right.

02:29.46
Bill
Um, and I've never known what the criteria is, but here's the thing. Number one side note, I think I'm pretty sure that's where people find us because, um, if you search for top podcasts, it's going to be a list and we end up being on one of these lists.

02:43.89
Bill
That's number one.

02:44.28
Mike
Right.

02:45.16
Bill
But then we've got a couple of people say that they've gotten us from this curated list. And this thing popped up just the other day that said, hey, you know, join now and you can get a list of all the what I'm like, oh, fuck, that's where they're getting us.

02:56.90
Bill
So we're you know, if they're going sending shit out to the top, you know, five or 10, 20 podcasts, we're we're going to be one of them all the time.

02:57.09
Mike
o

03:02.25
Mike
Yeah. Right.

03:04.15
Bill
So that's that part. But then out of curiosity, I'm just like, i I don't know how we're ranked. And when I mentioned episode length, you look at some of the some of the ones that are ranked or at least an hour or an hour.

03:15.19
Bill
They're longer form podcasts that are that are ranked ah in the higher ones, which I thought was interesting.

03:17.95
Mike
Okay. Uh-huh.

03:20.35
Bill
um But so I did, this was just kind of interesting. I did a ah chat GPT thing and I just asked the question, you know, figure if they could dig deeper and find out.

03:30.16
Mike
Yeah.

03:30.45
Bill
Um, why we might be included on there. And they were saying that the feed spot lists ranking page, uh, basically rankings are based on four main criteria, expertise and credibility content.

03:41.92
Mike
Ha!

03:42.71
Bill
I know, I know. Wow. God, that one peaked out. Holy shit.

03:46.09
Mike
he Ha!

03:47.80
Bill
Content quality and relevance, and longevity and consistency.

03:49.64
Mike
that.

03:53.18
Mike
Yeah, okay.

03:56.27
Bill
Audience engagement. Okay.

03:57.94
Mike
yeah okay

03:59.12
Bill
So part of it is that, I mean, we're ranked on Spotify, like a four, seven or four, eight Apple. We're, we've got a five-star rating on Apple. um So we, even though it's a small number of reviews, doesn't matter.

04:07.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

04:10.46
Mike
Sure.

04:10.73
Bill
We're ranked in there.

04:11.81
Mike
Yep.

04:11.87
Bill
um You know, and then it kind of went through saying that we, we pretty much hit all those, we hit all those categories. Um, Number one, but the other thing too is they, the other thing, so it says, feed spot states they consider not just their following, but also engagement ratings reviews.

04:29.71
Bill
Sober Not Mature is explicitly listed in the top few slots along with other.

04:32.76
Mike
It's explicit, all right.

04:34.24
Bill
Yeah. Uh, their own site, we see that they have many episodes. So obviously up to 190 with the little things that we do. So whatever it is, it's just the, the, the little things that we do.

04:45.01
Bill
The main thing that I'm looking at here is, um, I think it's the, it's a consistency and the engagement. So the reviews that we've gotten, um, and you know, I mean, yeah,

04:54.02
Mike
Right. Yeah, it's certainly not the credibility and quality. That's... Well...

04:59.39
Bill
okay Right. Well, you know, the other thing too, I had in just, know, it was a couple months ago when I started fucking around with chat GPT, I said, you know, give me a rundown of, of this podcast and tell me think about it, blah, blah, blah.

05:06.86
Mike
well

05:11.89
Bill
And it said that it kind of ranked us as, obviously sobriety and this is what we talk about. um It goes through and, you know, some of the the comments about people saying that we come across, you know, more genuine and real than a lot of other podcasts and, you know, just um ah like no bullshit type of thing, I guess is what they were, what they were talking about.

05:25.18
Mike
Mmm.

05:30.36
Mike
Yeah.

05:30.95
Bill
um But they were saying, too, that, you know, it seems like we although we and it came out right out and said, you know, clearly based on our following and things like that, that we have a smaller audience, maybe not the appeal of some of these larger ones, but a more solid appeal with a smaller audience.

05:45.67
Bill
However, it was worded somewhere in that thing.

05:47.16
Mike
Uh-huh.

05:47.85
Bill
And I'm like, that's us. Right.

05:49.45
Mike
Yeah. All right. They got something right. Yeah. I mean, okay. So here's my opinion on an opinion and on chat GPT, right?

05:56.62
Bill
Right. Well, I know what your opinion is.

05:58.77
Mike
Okay. Yeah, right. It's fucking... Okay, first of all, go watch the South Park episode. It's probably, i don't know, maybe three or four or five back from whatever.

06:09.98
Mike
It was a new one this season.

06:11.95
Bill
Right.

06:12.49
Mike
Yeah, where... Yeah, it's just... It's fucking hilarious on ChatGPT and what it actually is. It's beautiful. And um my qualifier for it is...

06:25.81
Mike
um I think it was the day after Ozzy died. um Chris asked her chat GPT is Ozzy dead? And it said, no, it' said Ozzy is still alive when he was clearly dead.

06:37.27
Bill
Oh, really?

06:41.63
Mike
So take that for whatever it's worth.

06:45.13
Bill
Yeah. And you know, the, the, I've had nothing but good luck with it. Cause like when, if you watch it, when it's doing a search, you can see the little icons of all this, of all the um websites it's searching.

06:56.20
Bill
So, I mean, all, all the, the, the experience that I've had with it, obviously the fun part, you know, doing some of the pictures and things like that of you and I, which I just think that's fun.

07:02.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

07:03.64
Bill
And that's been a lot of fun for me to put those together. I'm just saying, I do all this weird shit the year. I get this cool picture. Um,

07:09.56
Mike
Oh-ho.

07:10.39
Bill
But like, you know, I was looking for whatever it is. I was looking for hiking trails within a certain distance and a certain this and that. I can look at all trails, but it's hard to narrow it down. When I did it on there, they they went down. They're like, okay, this, they gave me all these different things. And as they were doing it, I could see all trails in this and all these different websites, these small little icons that were going kind of across the top.

07:31.72
Bill
And then they gave me this list. So it's taking all this shit that's on the internet and putting it into one place within like 20 seconds. Um, which is cool, but yeah, to come across and like, Ozzy's not dead.

07:43.58
Bill
That's, that's fucking crazy.

07:44.01
Mike
Yeah. Yep. So just letting you know, you know, that, that, that actually happened. Yes. The day after Ozzy was not dead when he clearly was.

07:53.51
Bill
Right.

07:54.77
Mike
So there you go.

07:56.67
Bill
Yeah. like Once again, I mean, I, like I said, I've had, I've had nothing but good experiences, but I suppose I haven't asked if somebody like immediately after they died, because that, that to me makes zero sense because it's, they're pulling all, it should be pulling all this information from the internet, you know?

08:07.10
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Should be

08:11.49
Bill
Right.

08:12.24
Mike
Supposedly. Plus, it's going to tell you whatever the fuck you want to know.

08:13.42
Bill
Right.

08:15.36
Mike
So there you go. Again, the South Park episode. Go watch it. It's hilarious.

08:20.60
Bill
Yeah. And I, I'm, all I'm saying is based on my experience, I disagree with that. It's not telling me what I want to know. It's curating the information on on the web. But I mean, just again, I'm saying based on my experience, um you know, it's just, it's taking all the information that it would take me hours to look for and putting it into one place.

08:36.77
Bill
I haven't used it trying to get its opinion on anything.

08:40.00
Mike
Okay.

08:40.08
Bill
I simply, I simply ask it factual things, but the Aussie thing, I don't have an answer for that.

08:43.34
Mike
Right. Great.

08:45.53
Bill
yeah no and No answer at all. so

08:47.71
Mike
Right.

08:47.85
Bill
So anyhow, so um it was just curious to me about the... Because for all this time, I'm like, how the fuck does this just do we, this little podcast, rank on there?

08:55.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

08:56.87
Bill
But I mean, even though were we're on a small level, we're hitting all the quality points, which I think is...

09:01.51
Mike
Sure.

09:01.89
Bill
I think that's kind of cool. That made maybe can feel kind of good, you know? buts I mean, i don't need Feedspot or anyone else to tell to tell us we're fucking wonderful cause we know we are.

09:11.88
Mike
Right.

09:12.39
Bill
Yeah.

09:12.41
Mike
Well, of course. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

09:16.14
Bill
All right. So back to, uh, and I'll save the Charlie Sheen stuff for, for next week. Cause I got some stuff on that. I get other, other nonsensical shit, but, um, you know, I didn't, I didn't actually print it off my sheets, but I'm glad I did because I wrote down a couple of things about, um, obviously October is the 10th month of the year, 10th step of of the, in the steps, if we're looking at it that way.

09:31.04
Mike
home

09:34.20
Bill
Um, and I, we've talked about the 10th step, you know, on plenty of different occasions, but just a quick recap.

09:38.52
Mike
right

09:40.20
Bill
Um, tell Give me your opinion on the the true importance. in you know and According to Mike, what's the why is why is step important?

09:47.45
Mike
Yes.

09:51.24
Mike
ah Well, let's see. ah Keeps me accountable. um It keeps me from adding to and nine. um Um, yeah, you know, I, again, it's, it's daily, it's a daily, you know, which is the the way this program is. It's a daily reprieve contingent upon the maintenance of my spiritual condition.

10:17.59
Mike
And how do I maintain my spiritual condition?

10:17.71
Bill
yeah

10:20.66
Mike
Well, doing a 10 step is a big part of it. Taking that little inventory, looking back on, you know, what kind of a person I was that day.

10:23.59
Bill
Right.

10:29.85
Mike
and um, you know, Was I okay or was I a piece of shit? If I was a piece of shit, I better fix that shit before I finish this day off. Otherwise, I got to go back and I got to go and I got to fucking do a fourth step again.

10:43.85
Mike
And then fuck, that means I got to fifth step again. Fuck.

10:47.26
Bill
right

10:48.08
Mike
Then I got to add to that goddamn eighth step. Fuck.

10:53.30
Bill
Yeah.

10:54.20
Mike
Yeah, no. ah so you know Again, account of a daily accounting of myself, which is huge. Yeah, which is something I certainly never did before and didn't give a fuck about.

11:06.44
Mike
Yeah, now i do

11:08.68
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I wrote down um and I did put favorite step. I mean, I just I enjoy the tense. I love I enjoy it because I guess let's put it this way.

11:19.57
Bill
This is what I wrote down um because it's so useful in the real world and to me every night, which is kind of a short version, I guess, a dumbed down version for me of what you just said.

11:25.81
Mike
Right.

11:30.50
Mike
ah sir

11:30.75
Bill
Yeah. Um, because it is, I mean, it it teaches us, I mean, the everything that that you just said, as far as you make these one little, but little mistakes, little mistakes turn into big ones.

11:41.32
Bill
Like you just said, four step, fifth step, eight step, all this different shit and all the work that's involved by just not, you know, dealing with this stuff immediately, which the 10 step teaches us so useful in the real world.

11:41.59
Mike
is

11:44.89
Mike
Right.

11:49.41
Mike
Right.

11:53.18
Bill
And like we, whatever that was a few months or a couple of months ago or whatever it was, You know, like um ah what? Do a positive thing for or five positives for every negative. And you're like, why do I just knock out the negative?

12:03.55
Bill
i don't have to do anything.

12:04.48
Mike
Yeah, right.

12:05.08
Bill
yeah Not to do anything different, which is the fucking point, you know, because the if we have learned, hopefully they were going to be wrong.

12:09.45
Mike
Yeah.

12:13.70
Bill
But to admit it right away and apologize immediately that we don't have all this fucking shit fester all the time.

12:15.85
Mike
z

12:18.96
Mike
Exactly. Yep.

12:20.20
Bill
And then every goddamn night I get to, and I do it when I go to bed, I'm laying down in my bed I ask myself, you know, okay, how was my day or whatever I say.

12:25.06
Mike
Yeah.

12:28.55
Bill
And, and I go through it in my head and rarely it's been a long fucking time.

12:28.71
Mike
Yeah.

12:30.99
Mike
yeah

12:33.80
Bill
And whatever it was, it was within the last year. i know we, I brought it up on here. There was an individual that I felt I was snippy with.

12:41.33
Mike
Right.

12:41.51
Bill
Um, I, the, the individual had no comprehension that it was, there was nothing wrong, but I apologized the next day. Um, you know, just cause it came up during my 10 step. I'm like, fuck man, whatever I said or how I said it or way that the way that it was, i hate I'm like, I i have to, i have to go back and I have to try to make this right.

12:51.07
Mike
Right.

12:54.29
Mike
Yeah.

13:00.09
Mike
Yep.

13:00.66
Bill
If nothing else with me. Right.

13:02.14
Mike
Yeah, right.

13:02.43
Bill
You know, yeah.

13:02.98
Mike
Yeah, exactly. It's selfish and self-centered. I have to make it right for me. Fuck, I don't care if it makes it right for you. and You didn't even notice it.

13:11.39
Bill
Right.

13:12.22
Mike
Whatever i did, I got to make it right for me.

13:15.19
Bill
Right.

13:15.28
Mike
Yeah, yeah. and and And most of the time, making it right for yourself is making it right for the other person. even if they didn't see it, you know, and yeah, exactly, you know, and and and hopefully if if I miss something, you know, ah they'll point it out to me and i'll I'll be able to fix it that way because, you know, I'm used to doing it because I do it every fucking day.

13:23.13
Bill
Yeah. Right.

13:38.93
Bill
Right.

13:39.62
Mike
Yeah.

13:40.36
Bill
Well, that's the other thing, I think. Even even if, um or for me, I mean, it's happened to me, and um I know it's happened for you, too, that you know when we go back and apologize, and somebody's like, I i didn't even think anything of it.

13:46.62
Mike
Hmm.

13:50.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

13:50.83
Bill
you know But after the fact, I'm sure they do think something of it and think, God, that was, you know I'm sure they it has to have some effect on people in a positive way.

13:53.63
Mike
Yeah.

13:58.80
Bill
I don't expect people to, when I walk away, to be like, God damn it, Bill's such a fucking good guy.

13:59.01
Mike
i would hope.

14:03.81
Mike
Yeah. What a fucking saint.

14:04.56
Bill
you know i can't believe... what ah What a great guy he is for coming back. But if nothing else, they they're probably like, huh, huh.

14:09.03
Mike
Yeah. All right.

14:12.25
Bill
You know, like, oh, that was but's kind of cool. And they go on their life. So even if I get a, huh, that was all right.

14:17.73
Mike
Yeah, right. Or even better, the next time some asshole like me walks up to them and does something like I did to them, asshole-ish, they go, oh, hey, that was like what that other asshole did.

14:27.08
Bill
Ah.

14:30.97
Mike
You know what? I don't have to put up with that shit.

14:35.51
Bill
Yeah. Hey, i learned I learned from this guy over there that you i don't know I don't have to live like that anymore.

14:38.97
Mike
Yeah.

14:41.42
Mike
That's right. Yes. Hopefully it's making them a little bit better, too.

14:45.91
Bill
Yeah, that's, ah I don't know. i like I do.

14:48.26
Mike
Right.

14:48.35
Bill
I like the 10 step.

14:48.80
Mike
Sure.

14:49.43
Bill
I, you know, I shy away from trying to say favorite, although I did write it down. I don't mean favorite, but it's just one that um i hang I hang on to it very, very tightly.

14:54.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

14:58.21
Bill
The other ones just seem to happen in my life on a daily basis.

14:58.51
Mike
right

15:02.80
Bill
um I think it's fair to say the 10 step's the only one that I literally... um, focus on every day. Cause I, I know I'm doing it when I do it, whether it's out the real world or when I lay down, you know, in bed at night, I don't necessarily think every day that, okay, well I did one, two, three.

15:09.07
Mike
sure

15:14.74
Mike
huh

15:18.45
Mike
Right.

15:18.83
Bill
Um, I worked on six and seven between three and four. And I never do that. I never think about, I, I mean, you and I know we were working all of them, you know, all the, all the daily steps we're working anyhow.

15:25.07
Mike
No.

15:27.57
Mike
yeah

15:30.46
Mike
Sure.

15:30.78
Bill
Um, you know, but the the tense one tense, uh,

15:34.18
Mike
Yes. Hey, there's a Freudian slip.

15:35.53
Bill
it It could be a little, it could be a little tense.

15:37.09
Mike
yeah

15:38.02
Bill
It could be tense.

15:38.25
Mike
Sure. Yes.

15:39.47
Bill
The 10th step, the number 10 step, um, it literally is the one that, uh, that I have to say, okay, in my head now I'm, I'm working, I'm doing my 10th step, you know?

15:42.42
Mike
yes

15:49.37
Bill
So I don't know. I just, enjoy it. And I, uh, I, I like, I like talking about it too. So how's that? Yeah.

15:55.36
Mike
All right. Hmm. Hmm. Careful.

15:57.56
Bill
All right. So I got a couple. ah oh just so just so you know, not that it really matters to you, but I don't know. Maybe you're going to be proud of me. ah Let me step back. Mike, I'm going to see if you're proud of me right now.

16:06.48
Mike
Hmm. turn

16:07.97
Bill
OK. and

16:10.11
Mike
careful

16:11.23
Bill
I know. So I had this whole list of things that I kept having duplicates and all those different things.

16:16.05
Mike
ah

16:16.91
Bill
I took all, and literally, it was like ah almost a full page of things.

16:20.64
Mike
so oh All right.

16:20.69
Bill
I read through them all. I think last weekend I read through them all and I'm like, God, all of these these things seem familiar. And I'm like, fuck it. If there are things that were important, they're going to come up again. So I deleted all of them, all the old ones that I had.

16:33.99
Bill
And I just started as of September 20th. And I had a few of these things dated as far as where I started again. So as of September 20th, I just started a new list.

16:44.46
Bill
So these are all, again, whether they're whether they're fresh, i don't know.

16:48.94
Mike
Hey,

16:49.95
Bill
But they're they're not the old decrepit ones that have been sitting around for, you know, clearly at least a year, if not if not longer than that. So.

16:56.50
Mike
Well, I think proud is a strong word, but... ah

17:01.69
Bill
Okay.

17:02.42
Mike
Yeah, but you cleaned up some old shit. That's good. Good.

17:05.13
Bill
Okay. but is Can I get an Antiboy? Is that is that okay? not Not proud, but Antiboy?

17:09.79
Mike
yeah Good for you.

17:10.95
Bill
Anything?

17:11.88
Mike
Good for you. oh good for you.

17:15.23
Bill
You know, you're just saying that you cleaned up some shit, so that's okay. That's that's enough.

17:18.53
Mike
yeah yeah Okay.

17:19.72
Bill
That's that's enough.

17:20.03
Mike
what but Apparently it wasn't because you were looking for more, you goddamn at addict drunk motherfucker.

17:20.86
Bill
that there

17:27.61
Bill
Well, but for you, I get...

17:28.32
Mike
I want more. want more. Give me more. Give me more. i need more. Hit me again.

17:32.00
Bill
See? Yeah. Yeah, but from you, I should know. I should just take what like take what I can get and shut the fuck up.

17:35.25
Mike
Yeah. yeah Thank you.

17:38.58
Bill
ah Okay, now um um I'm going to move on now. going to move on.

17:42.45
Mike
Cool.

17:42.87
Bill
Quit fawning all over me. It's okay. Just stop. Stop. All right, so this one is from Touchstones. Some of us have lived a pattern in which we did not know what we believed.

17:55.81
Bill
If someone we liked stated ah point of view, we might... Hang on one second.

18:01.08
Mike
Okay.

18:01.98
Bill
If someone we like stated a viewpoint, we might, oh, there we go. We might wear it for a while like a new shirt, but with no personal commitment. Okay. So um let me step back again because I kind of mumbled that a little bit.

18:10.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

18:13.91
Bill
Imagine that. So some of us have lived a pattern in which we did not know what we believe. So let's we got that part, right?

18:20.33
Mike
okay

18:20.77
Bill
Kind of mind blindly going along, not knowing we believe. So if someone we liked or let's say was in our life, uh, stated a viewpoint, we might wear it for a while, like a new shirt, but with no personal commitment.

18:32.63
Bill
So my question to you, and I, know that I think these days, and I'm not going to speak for you completely, but I think these days you're probably not as chameleon.

18:32.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

18:39.09
Mike
Mm.

18:42.21
Bill
Like I know I'm not, but did you ever do that?

18:43.44
Mike
Right.

18:44.80
Bill
Did you like chameleon with people and take on these viewpoints where these garments of, of viewpoints for a while? Is that something you, a pattern you used to do?

18:53.76
Mike
I, yeah, probably. i yeah, I'm sure I did. Certainly younger. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, I, of course I did. Right.

19:01.53
Bill
right

19:01.63
Mike
When ah when I, when was younger. uh, ah you um, but not a lot. And certainly not today. oh no, I mean, it's about the most un-punk rock thing you can fucking do.

19:18.92
Mike
right.

19:21.87
Bill
Yeah, that's ah that's a good point.

19:22.83
Mike
right Yeah, no, no, no, no. So, no, it's been a very long time. um But, yeah you know, but um as it as its as it comes to, like, recovery and stuff, I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, early recovery, you fucking have to because...

19:41.06
Bill
Right.

19:44.49
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, you hear something in a meeting whatever. Oh, that's, that's, Hey, that makes sense. And whatever, you know? Yeah. Um, and, and you kind of know put it on like a new fucking shirt that I like that actually.

19:55.76
Bill
Right.

19:55.80
Mike
Um, but you know, and, bla But I don't know about the second part where you don't like commit to it or whatever. um Early recovery, yeah, you're trying on all kinds of shirts to see which ones fit you.

20:10.63
Mike
But um yeah, once you find the ones that fit, those are your fucking shirts now. And yeah.

20:16.41
Bill
Right.

20:17.43
Mike
and so So there, that there's my shirt analogy for the evening.

20:25.31
Bill
yeah Well, I, I guess this is my shirt now.

20:28.57
Mike
All right.

20:30.01
Bill
Well, and you know what the, and I didn't write it down, but that was going to be my followup question to you and you jumped out with it And I liked that. I'm glad you brought it up because it made me think about that. I'm like, okay, yes. Cause I was thinking about this literally and strictly in you know, ah past life, past behavior and all that sort of thing.

20:45.03
Bill
I know for a fact that I didn't really, I never took the time um to have a ah solid opinion about anything, really anything that really mattered, you know?

20:52.89
Mike
Right. Right.

20:54.74
Bill
And I was, I was, I was what I complain about now headline people and people that just follow the crowd,

20:59.36
Mike
o ah

21:01.17
Bill
people that vote along People that vote along party lines only and don't do anything else.

21:03.82
Mike
Right. ah sir

21:05.55
Bill
And again, I mean, ah if people do that, fine. You're you're fucking lazy, is in my opinion.

21:08.55
Mike
Yeah, of course.

21:08.95
Bill
know just There's no but better way to put it. You're fucking lazy. Okay?

21:11.77
Mike
And stupid.

21:11.88
Bill
you're yeah And you're doing yourself a ah disservice by by not by but just doing that.

21:15.41
Mike
Yes. And you're doing everyone else a disservice too.

21:20.02
Bill
Yes. Thank you very much.

21:21.11
Mike
Right. Well. Yeah.

21:22.74
Bill
Yeah. And let's go back to the podcast. Why are we ranked here? We're...

21:25.48
Mike
they are

21:27.27
Bill
yeah yeah So just don't listen to this one feed spot.

21:29.93
Mike
right

21:30.44
Bill
um But, um and I thought about that too. I'm like, God, but what about, yeah, what about early recovery? And, and you jumped into that, which is, which is perfect because, and I do, I do like the shirt analogy also, as, as we walked into meetings and met new people are like,

21:38.19
Mike
well

21:40.90
Mike
ah

21:44.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

21:44.74
Bill
Hey, that's a nice fucking shirt. I think I'm going to wear that for a minute.

21:46.58
Mike
Yeah.

21:47.90
Bill
um I think I like that, but I'm not sure if I like this, whether it be to um the type of meetings we went to, the type of people we hung out with.

21:47.88
Mike
Yeah.

21:53.23
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

21:55.01
Bill
um I don't know the type of leads that we like to listen to the fact that we you know both came into a, you know, both of us came into a circumstance where we don't want to hear fucking drunkologues anymore, you know?

22:05.23
Mike
Right.

22:05.88
Bill
I don't mind hearing, and I've said it before, there's the, um you know, it's sober motivation podcast. It's recovery stories.

22:11.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

22:12.03
Bill
It talks from childhood all the way through, but it's, I don't know, whatever the deal is, I can handle that because it's, he walks these folks through pretty well. um It's not just an you know an hour and a half of fucking drunkologues.

22:24.01
Bill
It's a story that has, that makes sense.

22:24.13
Mike
Right. Sure.

22:26.61
Bill
um But, You know, so I mean, but yeah, we have to, you know, wear a bunch of shirts until we, you know, literally find one that fits. But yeah he said, well, I guess this this is my shirt now.

22:34.03
Mike
Yeah.

22:37.28
Mike
Yeah.

22:37.57
Bill
Yeah, I guess it I guess I'm I pick my shirt. I guess I'm stuck with this fucker for a while, you know.

22:42.55
Mike
yeah well i'm yeah not even stuck with this this is the shirt that fits me and this is yeah yeah yeah this this is my shirt now this is who i am this is what i am this is yeah yeah big fuck you right on the right on the front of it

22:47.27
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:57.05
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. like Like I said, that's, that's not very punk rock at all. That's the least punk rock that could get.

23:02.40
Mike
no yes exactly

23:05.57
Bill
But, uh, yeah, it's just, it was interesting to me because i thought I was thinking about it strictly from a past, but I'm glad you brought it up because literally I was thinking about that as, as we were talking through that. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it is, you gotta, you gotta find, gotta find your shirt and then you, you become the the guy with the new shirt.

23:14.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

23:19.93
Bill
So, well, I like that.

23:20.34
Mike
Yeah.

23:22.37
Bill
I like that one. Well, let, let me see. I might, I might have one, one more and then, uh, ah You know, what we this one we may have talked about, but but I think with everything that we talked about and um kind of listening to it, Betty and all those sort of things, I think this might be a good one anyhow.

23:36.49
Bill
So this was from Keep It Simple.

23:36.50
Mike
Okay.

23:37.85
Bill
I think this is probably a short subject, but what kind of example do I set? Does my life reflect joy for life and recovery? Now, I know we always think, you know, settle down, the whole fucking joy thing.

23:50.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

23:52.37
Bill
Um, you know, but even just, you know, what kind of example um do I set to, does my life reflect even just say positive things, you know, for recovery? What do you, what's your opinion?

24:01.00
Mike
I hope so. Jesus Christ, man. The fuck am I doing all this for? um her

24:06.75
Bill
Right. Yeah.

24:08.58
Mike
No, I, yeah, absolutely. Because again, I'm not, I'm not running my life. I'm not doing things my way. I'm doing things the way that they're supposed to be done.

24:20.77
Mike
And hopefully, yeah, yeah, I'm, ah I'm a reflection of the program and, and, so Um, yeah, you know, and I mean, I, sometimes I'm conscious of it, you know, I go to my home group to be of service. Right.

24:35.35
Mike
And maybe I'm not in the greatest of fucking moods, you know, maybe I'm tired. Maybe I, you know, I, I just want to stay home and lay on my couch. Um, you know And I'm sitting at the little table with the tickets and the blah, blah, blah, doing my service work. And um occasionally I got fake it a little.

24:55.35
Mike
you know Because, yeah, you know i I'm not in the greatest mood.

24:55.67
Bill
Right.

24:58.69
Mike
i you know But there's some new guy walking in and I'm one of the first people, you know if not the first person that he sees. And Fuck, man. You know, I don't want to sit there looking all grumpy and shit, you know, which is my default, my resting bitch face.

25:14.52
Bill
right

25:14.60
Mike
but ah right But, right, but I've got to consciously think about that and go, damn, don't look like you feel, asshole.

25:15.84
Bill
Right.

25:22.31
Bill
Right.

25:22.68
Mike
yeah all So, yes, I do, especially in that situation, but ah even in everyday life, you know, again, maybe not the greatest mood or whatever and blah, blah, blah. um Yeah, i I give myself that even if it's not...

25:39.57
Mike
sincere or genuine in that very small space. Um, you know, put a smile on walking up to a counter in a store, um, you know, whatever, holding a door for a fucking old lady, blah, blah, blah. You know, I don't give a fuck. I'll slam the door to your face, you old bitch.

25:56.38
Mike
But, but I won't, I will hold that door and give her a little smile.

25:59.09
Bill
Right. Right.

26:02.47
Mike
And how you doing? You little cunt. And, yeah Right. Yes. Fake it till you make it, man. I'm still doing it. So, yes, absolutely.

26:12.58
Bill
right

26:13.62
Mike
I do try sometimes more consciously than others to be a reflection. And I'd like to think that, you know, when I'm not in that grumpy mood and I do have, I am genuinely kind of all right, and you know, out doing my whatever.

26:29.80
Mike
And that just comes sort of naturally at this point. because I've been faking it for so long. um but Well, again, that is a reflection of the program as well. So there.

26:40.90
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I, and I agree. I mean, even with, um, you know, language and stuff like that at a meeting, I mean, uh, anyone who's who's listening to this knows that both of us have, you know, fucking mouths on us, but, um, you know, yeah.

26:49.27
Mike
Right.

26:52.61
Mike
Potty mouse.

26:53.66
Bill
And we don't, we don't swear, you know, at the, at the podium.

26:55.33
Mike
No.

26:56.65
Bill
And, uh, you know, if, uh, if, uh, if the word hell or damn slips out, it's like, ah, you know, yeah it it does, it just slips out.

26:57.46
Mike
No.

27:02.84
Bill
But I mean, we don't drop at bombs at the podium and

27:04.15
Mike
No, I mean, no, I i i consciously use hell and damn from the podium because I'm not using fucking shit.

27:11.15
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, I suppose. i don't even think I don't even think I do. i don't think I swear at all, you know, ever at the point. But I don't know. I guess I don't know. I suppose if if anything, it might be one of those two words.

27:21.88
Bill
But, um you know, i don't I don't use any other sort of, you know, profanity.

27:22.48
Mike
Right.

27:25.70
Mike
Right.

27:26.88
Bill
And that's out of respect, again, for the people in the program.

27:28.73
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

27:29.63
Bill
but the But the same, you know, same thing.

27:29.61
Mike
Absolutely.

27:31.07
Bill
I mean, if, ah um you know, if if I were at your... Or when I'm at your home group and if I were sitting there, um you know, with you and I was in a fucked up mood, um there's no way in the world I would um I would act out, you know, at a meeting like that, because, I mean, I know better and I know that that's it.

27:36.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

27:40.05
Mike
Right.

27:43.74
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

27:49.00
Bill
It's going to hurt me, but it's going to affect other people, you know.

27:51.79
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

27:52.83
Bill
And the same thing, being out in the world. um I don't need to be acting like a fucking fool at the at the local grocery store or the gas station or anything like that because, you know, okay, so around here, who's going to know me?

28:00.06
Mike
Right.

28:05.04
Bill
um But then again, who's going to know me, you know?

28:07.73
Mike
Right.

28:08.18
Bill
Um, and anywhere, you know, walking around Cleveland and stuff like that. I mean, yeah you run across people just fucking randomly everywhere. When I was in Madison, when anywhere I was, you know, you go to a couple of meetings, you know, fucking everyone, every, everyone you've ever, everyone, every sober person you've ever met, you run into all the goddamn time everywhere.

28:16.86
Mike
here

28:19.80
Mike
Right.

28:22.82
Mike
Right. Uh huh. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.

28:28.12
Bill
yeah

28:28.51
Mike
I mean, I went to a meeting in Florida at fucking 12 years ago, and somebody knew somebody from fucking Cleveland.

28:35.66
Bill
Oh, really?

28:35.65
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:36.10
Bill
Yeah.

28:40.12
Mike
Like, yeah, you know, they I think they brought up Doan's men's, and I was all, fuck, man.

28:43.92
Bill
Oh yeah yeah. Yeah.

28:44.87
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, you know.

28:45.20
Bill
I remember you talking about that. Yeah.

28:46.61
Mike
Yeah, the oldest men's group in the world.

28:49.45
Bill
Right.

28:49.92
Mike
Right, yeah, you know, so, um yeah, exactly. It it doesn't matter. That's kind of the point, I think, too, is it doesn't matter if they're going to know you or not.

29:01.16
Mike
I want to be a reflection of just fucking better way of life, whatever it is.

29:01.30
Bill
Right.

29:06.21
Mike
And, you know, even if they don't know I'm sober, even if it doesn't matter to them that I'm sober, I'm um i Hey, that guy's kind of a halfway decent human being and not like, look how great I am.

29:19.72
Mike
Just it's possible to be a fucking decent human being in this world. I think that's important to show that in all aspects of your life and especially in the rooms.

29:26.12
Bill
Right.

29:29.33
Bill
Right.

29:30.85
Mike
But yeah, everywhere. You know, ah take that shit out of the rooms. You know, yeah, it's easy to fucking between the our, the serenity prayer and our father. Take it out between the our father and the serenity prayer.

29:43.92
Bill
Right.

29:44.61
Mike
Yup.

29:45.39
Bill
Yeah. You know, that reminded me of real quick, and this is very, very quick. um at At work, every once in a while, they'll they'll run like a daily contest for whatever reason. Not all every Tuesday, but are our boss seems to run them on Tuesdays.

29:55.75
Mike
Yup.

29:57.77
Bill
And it's usually... either based on a certain type of client, certain type of collections. But this one day, it was just the the most person with the most money in gross collections that day. um Certain criteria, but not a lot of criteria.

30:07.36
Mike
Uh-huh.

30:10.77
Bill
um But just by the end of the day, you know, do this and get a $50 Amazon gift card. And I had, I just had a crusher fucking day, you know?

30:17.40
Mike
Yeah.

30:17.44
Bill
And usually when he puts up these contests, I barely pay attention because I don't care. I'm not going to work any harder. Just, I mean, I'll take a $50 gift card.

30:22.94
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

30:25.60
Bill
But that doesn't motivate me. um I'm going to do, that's kind of like, kind of what we were just talking about.

30:27.58
Mike
Yeah.

30:30.35
Bill
I'm going to do my job one way the other.

30:30.54
Mike
Yeah.

30:31.87
Bill
If I get a gift card on top of it, I'm cool.

30:32.10
Mike
Yeah. Right.

30:34.34
Bill
um But I'm, you know, so sometimes I, either I know I'm going to be close or not, whatever. I don't even turn anything in, but um I'm just having a fucking killer day. I mean, killer fucking day. So fill out the list, whatever those two payments that were paid to the client rather than to us.

30:43.61
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

30:47.67
Bill
So they didn't count. and I'm like, I don't care. So I still thought I, I still thought I had a good chance of winning, you know? And as i see and I've seen these emails first thing in the morning, that well, this one didn't qualify and this one didn't. But I'm like, I still got this.

30:59.29
Bill
Again, not a big deal. But at this point, I'm like, ah if I get it, that'll be cool. So he sends out this email and he's like, he's like okay, so um you know ah but who whichever one of our collectors, um you know she had X number of dollars. She was the winner. Just always one winner.

31:12.66
Mike
ahha

31:12.78
Bill
And then um he says, you know beat out Bill by like 60 bucks. He was fucking with me, but in in a good way, in a fun way.

31:17.03
Mike
ah Yeah. Yeah, right.

31:19.72
Bill
And literally she beat me by like, you know, like $60 or a hundred.

31:23.23
Mike
Yeah.

31:23.29
Bill
It was by like nothing, you know?

31:24.79
Mike
Right.

31:26.20
Bill
And I'm like, God damn it. So then, um, the, the VP of whatever, the chick, I always say, that's really cool. Um, she, she sends out the Amazon cards and they're all electronic ones.

31:34.50
Mike
Right.

31:34.78
Bill
So like 20 minutes, half hour later, I get this, uh, this boss of ours, her name is Stacy. Um, it's like, Stacy sent you an Amazon gift card. and I'm looking, she's like, Oh, congratulations on the contest.

31:45.54
Bill
Um,

31:45.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

31:46.09
Bill
And I emailed her back and I'm like, I wasn't expecting this because I wasn't the number one you know person. But I'm like, thank you.

31:51.30
Mike
Right.

31:51.96
Bill
I appreciate But didn't do anything with it. Right. I just let it sit. um And then then Chris, who is my manager, sent me a message through teams. He's like, you know, Stacy sent you a ah gift card by accident.

32:04.11
Bill
And I said I said I emailed her back right away and told her I didn't expect it and blah, blah, blah. And I told him I'm like, I don't need to to take it. You know, I mean, clearly I don't need to take the gift card.

32:15.44
Mike
Right.

32:15.80
Bill
And, um you know, he didn't get back right away. And he says, he goes, he goes, first of all, he goes, he goes, thank you very much. He goes, ah guess most people wouldn't have said a damn thing about it.

32:24.78
Mike
Right.

32:25.52
Bill
And then it's next. He did this in like three messages. And he said, he said, Bill, he goes, you're a genuinely good guy.

32:30.74
Mike
Yeah, right.

32:31.51
Bill
And I was just like, God damn, you know, but I'm like, you know, thank Bill and Bob for that.

32:31.53
Mike
Right.

32:34.99
Bill
Don't fucking thank me.

32:35.40
Mike
yeah right

32:36.61
Bill
You know, and then, and then Stacy, the one that sent it to me that the bigger boss, she's like, Oh, by the way, she goes, I apologize.

32:41.16
Mike
ha

32:43.06
Bill
She's at Chris's email was confusing. She said, I sent you that by mistake. She said, please don't, you know, um you know, don't cash it in.

32:50.47
Mike
right

32:50.63
Bill
Um, if you didn't already. And I'm like, I, I didn't, I said, I'll just delete it. She said, thank you. I apologize for the confusion.

32:56.16
Mike
Uh-huh.

32:56.37
Bill
Um, oh, and I know what it was. It was on my birthday. So I was going to fuck it. like, oh, fuck you. Yeah. Not only, you know, fuck me over, but it's on my birthday, you know?

33:00.55
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

33:04.97
Bill
But, uh, I don't know. it was just random. It made me think about that. I didn't write that down to talk about, but yeah, he just, he said, he goes, you know, you're, you're a good guy. He goes, most people wouldn't say anything like that. And I know that I know people wouldn't, they would have just taken the fucking money.

33:14.39
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

33:16.99
Bill
I mean, I could have, and then what are they going to do?

33:18.32
Mike
Sure.

33:18.51
Bill
Give me the, give me the money back.

33:19.85
Mike
um yeah Yeah, right. you know Take it out of your next check, fuckers. Yeah.

33:24.12
Bill
And they they probably would not have done that. They're not those type of people.

33:26.48
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

33:27.80
Bill
ah But they would have been like, oh, yeah he knew better, but he took the fucking money anyhow.

33:30.82
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

33:31.71
Bill
You know?

33:31.96
Mike
and Yeah, exactly. So the next time, that shady motherfucker. Right.

33:37.56
Bill
Yeah.

33:37.84
Mike
Yeah. But now the next time is, eh, that guy. is He's all right. We'll light him up a little bit.

33:44.63
Bill
Yeah. You're like, that that guy.

33:45.16
Mike
Yeah.

33:45.87
Bill
Yeah. That guy over there. yeah He's okay. Yeah.

33:48.17
Mike
He's all right. He's a good shit.

33:49.79
Bill
He's all right. He's all right.

33:51.85
Mike
He he he he he.

33:52.53
Bill
yeah All right, man. Well, you know, speaking speaking of all right, i think I think we're all right with the amount of time that we put into this motherfucker tonight, don't you?

33:58.79
Mike
I believe so.

34:00.71
Bill
All right.

34:01.07
Mike
I do. I do. Well, we want to, yes. So thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. Thank you, Betty, for coming on and sharing your experience, strength, and hope with us. It was a cool conversation.

34:15.86
Mike
We definitely appreciated it. And now don't forget to go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it. Now, ah From the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul.

34:30.80
Mike
From the beginning of time until the ends of the earth. Always and eternally. Fuck you.

34:42.69
Mike
Now it's that time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

34:57.87
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

35:06.56
Bill
And yes, thank you, Betty. That was fun. was that was fun there was ah there was a good as a good conversation. And yeah, I hope she does send some more people our way.

35:14.89
Mike
yeah

35:15.13
Bill
And I don't know, if she ever wants to come back, I think it'd be nice to have her around again.

35:15.62
Mike
Absolutely.

35:19.23
Bill
it Just that truly, she just seems like a down to earth, down to earth.

35:22.09
Mike
Yeah.

35:22.29
Bill
You know what? That Betty, she's all right.

35:23.94
Mike
hey She's all right.

35:24.83
Bill
She's all right. She's all right. Yeah, that Betty there, she's all right. All right, man. i love you, brother.

35:31.17
Mike
I love you too.

35:32.55
Bill
We'll talk soon.

35:33.54
Mike
We shall.

35:34.94
Bill
Bye.

35:35.76
Mike
Bye.