SoberNotMature - Episode 187 (This Episode Will Kill You)

00:00:01.66
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And ladies and gentlemen, we have a sort of monumental episode this week, okay?

00:00:13.29
Bill
I'm going to tell you why, all right?

00:00:13.47
Mike
Woo.

00:00:15.05
Bill
It took three years and seven months, almost seven months to get here, but welcome everyone to episode murder.

00:00:25.14
Bill
It's episode 187.

00:00:26.70
Mike
Ah. Yeah.

00:00:29.10
Bill
For a minute there. I can confused my friend over there for a minute.

00:00:31.85
Mike
yeah Yeah.

00:00:31.90
Bill
He's like, what the the fuck we did? we

00:00:33.88
Mike
Right.

00:00:34.53
Bill
Are we now a crime?

00:00:34.55
Mike
um So I know we're not to 200 yet. What the fuck? Huh? Right.

00:00:37.78
Bill
No, episode murder, man. It's 187.

00:00:39.93
Mike
ah Right.

00:00:41.83
Bill
But yeah, you know what? The the funny part is, is I eyeballed this.

00:00:42.95
Mike
Hey. Right? I guess.

00:00:44.71
Bill
I don't know. ah one Probably when we hit the 180s, I'm like, oh shit, the murder episode's coming up. But yeah. There's a story behind this, and I started thinking about it and did a little bit, just a little bit of research on something, which I'll tell you about in a minute. but

00:00:56.87
Mike
hey

00:00:57.02
Bill
So this takes us back to um ah very, very young Mike and Bill, young-ish to what we are now, but young young-ish to what we are now, but literally almost almost about 15 years ago, within a couple of months, and we were we were at the Keating Center three-quarter house on Cecilia, which was in Old Brooklyn, right?

00:01:01.42
Mike
um m yeah her right i guess yeah Yeah.

00:01:18.19
Mike
Correct.

00:01:18.30
Bill
Old Brooklyn? Okay.

00:01:19.14
Mike
Yep.

00:01:19.86
Bill
So um I come out one night and we're in a living room room. Mike's in a living room and he's watching TV. And mike Mike used to, well, he at least see this is the last network television show that I can remember him watching.

00:01:24.95
Mike
I up.

00:01:29.21
Mike
Right.

00:01:30.69
Bill
And literally, kids, it was 15 years ago. Okay.

00:01:33.10
Mike
right

00:01:33.43
Bill
um So I walk out and I recognize one of the characters who I'll explain in a minute. And of course, I'm like, well, hey, Mike, what are you watching? And you said...

00:01:42.59
Mike
ah Detroit 187. Yeah. Sure. Sure.

00:01:45.62
Bill
And of course, i right away said, ooh, Detroit murder.

00:01:49.11
Mike
yeah

00:01:50.51
Bill
So um it was Chris Imperioli who played, anyone who watched The Sopranos played Chris on The Sopranos.

00:01:53.42
Mike
sir

00:01:57.11
Bill
um So I recognized him right away because I'm a huge Sopranos fan. Side note, I just started watching them again since I'm fucking paying for HBO again.

00:02:03.72
Mike
ah

00:02:04.33
Bill
Started watching The Sopranos again. But anyhow, um so, you know, of course I made fun of him. So I'm like, yeah, yeah, fucking Detroit murder, this and that.

00:02:09.17
Mike
sure

00:02:11.64
Bill
So then week number two comes around and, you know, same thing, walk out. And i'm like, ooh, watching Detroit murder. and i And I think I stuck around for a little bit.

00:02:20.17
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:02:20.58
Bill
And then by week three, I'm sitting next to the motherfucker watching...

00:02:22.38
Mike
yeah Yeah, it was a good fucking show.

00:02:23.46
Bill
yeah It really was. was sitting there. I was right next to my friend, Mike, watching every goddamn... I just looked it up but today because I'm like, I couldn't remember when it ran.

00:02:34.29
Bill
I knew we were in Cecilia, but I couldn't remember how long it ran or whatever it was.

00:02:36.08
Mike
Mm-hmm. I think it was only one season.

00:02:38.36
Bill
So, correct, which I didn't remember. So, um one season from September of 2010, which we didn't get to Cecilia until early November, right?

00:02:41.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:02:46.80
Mike
Right.

00:02:47.68
Bill
And then it, uh, last episode was mid to end of March, whatever it was.

00:02:51.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:51.97
Bill
So somewhere between November and March was when we were sitting there and you probably want, you might've watched it beforehand.

00:02:57.49
Mike
yeah I don't remember.

00:02:58.10
Bill
Um, yeah, I, I did, I didn't, I didn't figure you, you would, but, um,

00:03:00.15
Mike
don't know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:03.76
Bill
But yeah, so yeah, we sat there and we sat there and, you know like I said, I came out right away fucking making fun of the dude.

00:03:08.91
Mike
this

00:03:09.32
Bill
And I think it, it couldn't have been more than week three that I was, yeah, I'm fucking clued in every goddamn, it was Tuesday nights. Apparently it was on. So I'm sure we went, probably went to the big book meeting and then, you know, Dan's, Dan's big book meeting.

00:03:15.75
Mike
yeah

00:03:18.87
Mike
yeah

00:03:21.22
Bill
Cause back, I'm like, what was Tuesday?

00:03:21.43
Mike
Yep.

00:03:22.50
Bill
I'm like, yeah, there was Dan's big book meeting.

00:03:23.02
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:23.86
Bill
And then that makes sense.

00:03:24.28
Mike
Yeah. That I remember.

00:03:26.00
Bill
Yeah. And they said it was on at either eight or nine o'clock, which I would assume probably nine Eastern time, you know, which makes sense because we get home and I think you were out in the living room eating, watching Detroit, Detroit murder.

00:03:31.32
Mike
Yeah, I think nine. Yeah.

00:03:37.29
Mike
Right.

00:03:38.65
Bill
So, but yeah, like, God damn, was only one season.

00:03:38.82
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:03:42.57
Bill
said I was, I really, I kind of want to look that, look that up again. I like him as an actor. I really do. He's been in some other stuff, but he's really good in Sopranos. I mean, I just got through the first episode again, but, um but yeah, I don't know. It just kind of, it kind of made me laugh. I'm like, yeah.

00:03:56.58
Bill
we're on our fucking murder murder episode. So, so welcome everyone to a, so we're not mature murder.

00:03:58.66
Mike
Well, that's cool.

00:04:04.15
Bill
And you know, if we, we mentioned that enough, maybe, maybe people who are into like crime podcasts or reality crime, or what are those called crime?

00:04:08.65
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:10.78
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:10.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:10.90
Bill
Real quick, real crime or,

00:04:11.63
Mike
Yeah. Sure. True crime.

00:04:13.16
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. There you go. true Why couldn't I think of the word true crime?

00:04:15.53
Mike
I don't know.

00:04:16.75
Bill
yeah But apparently that's what the, the chicks are the ones that dig true crime. So maybe we should, you want to do a second episode or a second podcast?

00:04:21.72
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:04:24.75
Bill
We'll do true crime.

00:04:25.18
Mike
No. No.

00:04:26.20
Bill
yeah Speaking of entrepreneurship.

00:04:27.42
Mike
no

00:04:29.86
Mike
Yeah, right, exactly.

00:04:30.44
Bill
okay No, I, yeah, yeah.

00:04:31.77
Mike
Our pre-show meeting, no. I have no interest.

00:04:36.59
Bill
I don't either. But you know what? Maybe that's the only way that we could actually attract women to this podcast. Just talk about fucking crime.

00:04:41.22
Mike
Hmm. Right.

00:04:43.40
Bill
Women, ladies, the ones that the ones who listen, thank you. But i still I don't get it completely. But, you know, you're fucking nuts and we love you for it. So anyhow. All right. So one other quick thing before before I forget, because I wrote it down.

00:04:56.38
Bill
um Our friend Mara had an anniversary this week.

00:04:58.20
Mike
ho Ah, yes, she did. Mm-hmm.

00:05:00.53
Bill
Yeah. 11 years for ah for our friend Mara from Cleveland, who is going to be on with us next week.

00:05:05.60
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:05.85
Bill
um So and I the funny part is when we were going back and forth about when to do the episode, she's like, oh you know, trying to figure out something. She mentioned her anniversary. And I said, definitely, let's wait to do it after your anniversary so we can talk about it, you know.

00:05:14.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:17.17
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:05:18.61
Bill
And then she says, oh, yeah, definitely, because it was supposed to be this week to begin with. um And then obviously she had we had to reschedule her. But yeah, whatever. I mean, she'll be on she'll be on next week.

00:05:29.31
Bill
And, you know, it'll be it'll be cool. be Nice to nice to have her on.

00:05:32.05
Mike
Yes.

00:05:32.64
Bill
And yeah, 11 years. So Tony just like a week or so ago, a couple of weeks ago and then what, 13 for him and 11 for Mara.

00:05:36.49
Mike
Yeah. Yup.

00:05:38.94
Bill
So. Yeah. And I mean, i don't know, we've got this, uh, we've talked about it on here before, but we've got this core group of people, um, in Cleveland. There's a lot of people that are 10 plus and, you know, a lot of other people that are, you know, six, seven, and eight, nine, you know, somewhere between that five and 10 year period.

00:05:55.16
Mike
Right.

00:05:55.44
Bill
Um, I don't know. we just have a, it's, we've got a really good core group of friends. Well, with good solid and, you know, not just solid sobriety and, you know, time, but good, good solid sobriety.

00:06:03.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:03.87
Bill
Right.

00:06:04.02
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:06:04.17
Bill
Yeah.

00:06:04.94
Mike
Yes.

00:06:07.82
Bill
yeah

00:06:07.83
Mike
Yeah, like we'd hang out with people with half-assed sobriety. Yeah.

00:06:11.72
Bill
Yeah. You know what? That's a good, that's a goddamn good point. That's a goddamn good point.

00:06:14.74
Mike
All right.

00:06:16.82
Bill
All right. So those were, those were my two, my two things. I got other stuff. I did the, did the baby shower last, last weekend with my, my stepson and got a hiking story.

00:06:22.88
Mike
yeah

00:06:26.57
Bill
I got a thing of something about that. I got a couple other things. I got, I got some stuff, but you probably do too.

00:06:30.30
Mike
yeah right

00:06:31.88
Bill
I think you might have a, wait a second. Do you have a reading about murder?

00:06:36.17
Mike
her I do not, because I did prepare for that. um I do have a reading. It's it's not about murder, though.

00:06:45.62
Bill
yeah You know, what's funny is that, I mean, it's, I, you always tell me, don't, don't prepare, you don't do anything. But when I said that, there was just, when I said, you know, episode murder, and it's just fucking silence. Again, I'm looking, looking, I'm like, did I lose him?

00:06:58.63
Bill
It's just, I did.

00:06:58.77
Mike
Right.

00:06:59.71
Bill
i just didn't lose you on the podcast. I just completely, thank you weren't clicking, you weren't clicking.

00:07:01.62
Mike
Right. right

00:07:05.16
Bill
So that's.

00:07:05.46
Mike
exact Well, and in full disclosure, I'm, you know, I'm still, I'm feeling much better than I was, but I'm still lingering, man. This COVID shit sucks. um So, yeah, I mean, ah you know, I'm doing okay, but by the end of the day, I'm um fucking beat more than usual.

00:07:21.34
Bill
right

00:07:23.89
Mike
So, yeah. So, yeah, you know, whatever. I'm not, I'm not all that sharp. I have the COVID brain.

00:07:29.24
Bill
Did you, did you get actually get tested or you're just pretty sure that you have it?

00:07:32.81
Mike
No, i um I know I had it.

00:07:33.68
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:07:35.16
Mike
Yeah, it was. Yeah. I mean, I've had it. It was fourth time I've had it. So I know what it is now.

00:07:39.77
Bill
Oh, really? Yeah.

00:07:40.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:41.93
Bill
I mean, I had it. I had it twice confirmed when I actually got tested for it.

00:07:45.07
Mike
Right.

00:07:45.09
Bill
And then I think there was one time when I was down here that because Kylie had it and then um ah she she was here and then I think Kathy got it or thought she had it. And then there was like a week or two timeframe when I just, I felt really off.

00:07:54.88
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:07:58.33
Bill
I've actually felt off the last couple of weeks, but um I mean, this, the the, the air quality and allergies and it's been, it's been fucking ridiculous it as far as that goes.

00:07:58.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:08:07.17
Mike
and this

00:08:07.35
Bill
um But I mean, I don't feel, I don't feel like the whole rundown thing. It's just stuffiness, you know, the allergy and the runny nose.

00:08:13.14
Mike
Right.

00:08:14.06
Bill
And I don't think I, I don't think I have the vid, but either way, I'm glad you're feeling starting to come back around.

00:08:17.46
Mike
this is

00:08:20.63
Mike
Yes. It's starting.

00:08:22.71
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:08:22.79
Mike
Yes. Like I said, you know, I'm, I'm infinitely better. Just that by the end of the day, man, I'm burnt.

00:08:28.65
Bill
Right.

00:08:28.80
Mike
And anyway Hey, guess what? It's the end of the fucking day. Yeah.

00:08:31.91
Bill
That it is.

00:08:33.58
Mike
Yes. All right. So a reading.

00:08:37.12
Bill
Hmm.

00:08:37.65
Mike
Let's see here. This is from Keep It Simple. This is from this week. It's September 13th. Reddit went, yeah, that'll do. ah So here we go.

00:08:50.35
Mike
ah People seldom improve when they have no role model but themselves to copy. Oliver Goldsmith. Apparently he was an Irish poet.

00:09:02.13
Mike
All right. If we had to get well by ourselves, we'd be in trouble. We've already tried this route. We need to learn a new way to live, not the old way that we already know.

00:09:15.52
Mike
That's why we have sponsors in 12-step programs. Sponsors are one of the best things about about our recovery program. We pick people who are happy and doing well in recovery.

00:09:28.62
Mike
Then we copy them. We copy them because sponsors are special people who have what we want. They have sobriety. They have happiness. They have common sense.

00:09:41.23
Mike
They have peace and serenity. And they will help us get those things too. We learn a new way to live from them. Prayer for the day. Higher power. Help me pick good models.

00:09:54.52
Mike
Help me copy what works for them. Action for the day. Oh, those actions. If I don't have a sponsor now, I'll work today on getting one. If I do have a sponsor already, i will thank them today for being a good model for living the program.

00:10:13.82
Bill
Yes. So did you thank Joe yet?

00:10:16.41
Mike
I have not.

00:10:18.83
Bill
I haven't either, but every time we see him, we thank him. So, you know, I mean, Joe, the thanks is all on this side of the table in case you never listened, in case you never listened to this.

00:10:21.39
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

00:10:25.24
Mike
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

00:10:29.00
Bill
But, um, yeah, you know what the, I, and I do, I do remember, um, actually reading that one because it's, uh, I mean, obviously ah a good reading, you know, the whole idea of the sponsor and and all that stuff.

00:10:38.24
Mike
Right.

00:10:38.71
Bill
But we've talked about, you know, how, how each one of us got our, got our sponsors by, you know, kind of by chance.

00:10:42.89
Mike
v

00:10:44.25
Bill
Yeah.

00:10:44.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:46.28
Bill
Um, you know, but the, the, the first thing that I, that I wrote down is, um, the opening part talked about not having a role model and like learning from ourselves.

00:10:54.23
Mike
and see Right.

00:10:55.89
Bill
So, uh, I guess let me step back on that one first, or at least that ask the question. So do you think, um, I don't know, prior to, to getting sober and having, you know, like really committing to, to this whole thing that we do, did you have anyone that you, that you felt was a good role model in your life?

00:11:08.82
Mike
ahha

00:11:13.96
Bill
Like from,

00:11:17.09
Bill
yeah That's a yes to write you down for.

00:11:18.79
Mike
the oh

00:11:19.92
Bill
yeah

00:11:20.90
Mike
I mean, I had lots of bad ones.

00:11:23.00
Bill
Right.

00:11:23.15
Mike
of You know, yeah. um No, no, absolutely not. I mean, yeah, I had bad ones. Yeah, there were clearly people I tried to emulate um to to my detriment most of the time.

00:11:38.43
Mike
Um, yeah, no, I, I didn't have for anybody in good in my life. I mean, you know, and clearly towards the end, I, you know, didn't want any and, and, and certainly wasn't looking and, you know, cause I had it all figured out and I was, I was all I needed. and oh um but no, no, not really.

00:11:58.67
Mike
I mean, you it was clearly younger kid and stuff. Yeah. There were people there was, you know, but I think two teachers out of the, you know, whatever 50 or so we, we get there in the public school system.

00:12:03.10
Bill
Right.

00:12:11.52
Bill
yeah

00:12:11.96
Mike
There was a couple of them that were, pretty good, um you know, talked about Jerry Lopes on here when he passed, um you know, my music teacher in high school, yeah, he was definitely a good role, ah you know, sort of, I mean, he was out drinking beers, and, you know, partying it up, and stuff, but, which was part of my role model from him,

00:12:31.98
Mike
um

00:12:34.75
Mike
but, um you know, I didn't take the part where, you know, he got up every day, and went to work, and took care of his family, and all that good stuff, I didn't copy that part um just you know whooping it up drinking beers flirting with girls and playing music um yeah but i mean you know yeah not not really you know because again we're you know i'm an alcoholic man i'm i'm self-sufficient i i don't need anybody i i like i said i got it all fucking figured out man um so not really

00:12:42.99
Bill
Right.

00:13:08.59
Bill
to the The answer is not really.

00:13:11.63
Mike
Not really.

00:13:11.82
Bill
and the fact that The fact that you were laughing right away, I do what your answer was, but it's just it was kind of funny. i was laughing to myself, going, God damn, i it yeah that's a yes, right? um you know and i And I think about it, too.

00:13:21.45
Mike
Right.

00:13:22.96
Bill
i mean my i don't know. i mean and Once I got to be, probably in my in my teenage years, it was probably a few years that my my dad, I felt, was a good role model.

00:13:33.47
Bill
Once he he got sober, it was back in my life.

00:13:34.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:35.39
Bill
But i mean he was... He was on his best behavior and I and he and I went bad, you know, after that.

00:13:39.03
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:13:40.42
Bill
And I he wasn't he wasn't right, you know, at that time.

00:13:44.89
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:13:45.16
Bill
um

00:13:45.23
Mike
Mm

00:13:45.75
Bill
You know, when when we kind of got back together, you know, figure he got sober when I was 12. twelve I think I didn't we didn't he didn't start coming around again. Got his shit all together. We're I was probably 14, 15 when he started coming around.

00:13:57.55
Mike
hmm.

00:13:57.82
Bill
And then, um i mean, we were on the outs again by the time i was 19, 20, you so.

00:14:03.23
Mike
Right.

00:14:03.44
Bill
you know so And, you know, so you figure it at that time, that was 87, 88. He got sober in 81. mean, he was, you know, six, seven, eight years sober in that area.

00:14:14.66
Bill
um

00:14:14.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:15.36
Bill
He was not acting. I know now he wasn't acting as a sober person completely should. Okay. Okay.

00:14:20.70
Mike
Right.

00:14:21.64
Bill
But, you know, ah he was a a decent give me some decent morals and ideas. And even when it is a kid, there's there's things that I repeat, you know, that I learned from him, you know, to to this day, you know, so there's that.

00:14:29.08
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah.

00:14:32.58
Bill
um I think I've talked about like Uncle John was always there. he was always there for us.

00:14:36.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:36.79
Bill
um You know, I mean, mom, she worked her ass off, you know.

00:14:39.54
Mike
Sure.

00:14:40.11
Bill
um I don't think was always whatever the word nurturing is or whatever it means, probably not that.

00:14:46.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:46.34
Bill
But I think that was a generational thing.

00:14:48.16
Mike
Right.

00:14:48.28
Bill
You know, I think I think, you know, as as parents now, people are more, you know, sometimes overly, you know, i think.

00:14:53.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:53.45
Bill
But, you know, people are certainly more now than they were then.

00:14:54.06
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:14:57.01
Bill
um You know, but the same thing when you mentioned teachers, I thought about my um my soccer coach. Mr. Kachi was his name and he just died. Oh, shit. Within the last five or six years, somebody had posted it on Facebook that he died.

00:15:10.75
Bill
I think he died.

00:15:10.76
Mike
Right.

00:15:11.43
Bill
had cancer or whatever. He was a ah math teacher at the the middle school, which I don't remember him from when I went. I only went to one year at the middle school here was or in Wisconsin.

00:15:22.49
Bill
But he was our ah our high school um soccer coach and just a really good fucking dude, you know, um could get fired up and could, you know, dress us down, do all that shit, you know.

00:15:28.53
Mike
Right.

00:15:33.13
Bill
But we didn't take he wasn't mean. He was just very fucking passionate, um you know, kind of like Marty, you know, a little bit.

00:15:35.79
Mike
hu

00:15:38.14
Mike
Right.

00:15:41.41
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:41.58
Bill
But, you know, without the mouth, you know.

00:15:43.16
Mike
Without the insanity.

00:15:44.08
Bill
yeah yeah Without the complete insanity and went without the profanity, without the two, without the two entities in there.

00:15:47.90
Mike
Gotcha. Gotcha. Right. Right.

00:15:51.94
Bill
Um, but you know, the, the same thing. And I think you, you probably said the most important thing though, is that, um, our mentality was, you know, again, self-sufficient. We know everything.

00:16:02.00
Mike
see

00:16:02.52
Bill
We, we know how to do all this stuff.

00:16:03.00
Mike
this

00:16:04.54
Bill
Um, I mean, I think I dealt with that part of it a little bit with, you know, both of my kids, but not bad. You know, where you're trying to tell them something and teach them something and they learn in time. But neither one of neither one of my kids was like I was, you know, thank fucking God.

00:16:18.15
Mike
right Yeah, right.

00:16:21.24
Bill
If there's a God out there, thank you. Because I, you know, I wouldn't want to have to deal completely with me, you know, with that, with that sort of stuff.

00:16:22.94
Mike
Yes. All

00:16:27.20
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, I don't think that um I, I know for a fact, I didn't really, I've had a couple of good managers over the years, that sort of thing.

00:16:27.76
Mike
right.

00:16:34.94
Bill
But um even, what but I mean, that's been in sobriety.

00:16:35.30
Mike
Hmm.

00:16:37.74
Bill
The, the, probably the two good, really good managers I've had have been in sobriety. So I don't think that I really, I don't think I really grabbed onto a good role model until I got sober. You know, I just don't, I don't think I did.

00:16:49.54
Mike
Right. Yeah, right. Well, and I mean, again, you know, attitude, you know, when we got sober, we kind of had to open ourselves up and yeah, right.

00:17:00.66
Bill
right

00:17:01.41
Mike
You know, like the reading says, man, we can't do it ourselves. We can't do it our way. And so we have to, in order for the sobriety thing to take, we've got to be open to some different things to do and and other people and all that good stuff.

00:17:15.35
Mike
So yeah, you know, ah yeah. I mean, before i was seriously... to get sober, I was, yeah, you know, I, I wasn't open to it again. i got it figured out. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, you know? So, yeah.

00:17:30.24
Mike
Right.

00:17:31.57
Bill
Yeah. I mean, we've we've, we've even talked about something as simple as, uh, you know, I mean, you know, we talk about following directions in this whole sobriety thing, but we talked about, you know, reading directions.

00:17:38.63
Mike
listen

00:17:40.25
Bill
You know, we, we use the examples of the cake all the time, but I mean, I never, i but never, but I did not pay close attention to directions on anything as far as like building something or whatever.

00:17:40.69
Mike
Right. Right.

00:17:51.20
Bill
Cause I figured I got the same thing.

00:17:51.33
Mike
Right.

00:17:53.44
Bill
I, I got this handle.

00:17:53.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:54.69
Bill
I can figure this fucking shit out.

00:17:55.05
Mike
Not, yeah, I know what I'm doing.

00:17:57.25
Bill
and Yeah. You put something together, especially one of those like prefab things that just the same thing from Walmart or whatever it is.

00:18:01.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:18:03.71
Bill
And you look and you're like, you got, you got the board looks the same regardless how you put it together, but you put it back in the, you got it backwards and you got to take apart, you know, half the goddamn contraption to get, to get the fucking board turned around.

00:18:10.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:14.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:16.18
Bill
Although Brian and I did that with Ollie's Cribs.

00:18:18.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:19.46
Bill
We ended up putting, we had one of the, i think we had the arms on the wrong, whatever it was. I think it was the, yeah, think the arms on the wrong side ended up having to take it back apart.

00:18:25.83
Mike
Right.

00:18:27.40
Bill
And we did, we read the directions. We just picked the wrong, we weren't paying attention.

00:18:30.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:30.72
Bill
So, but so that was done, you know, a little over three and a half years ago.

00:18:30.92
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:18:36.87
Bill
So I, I'm still, I, I think that means I'm not fixed yet, I guess.

00:18:37.32
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:18:40.82
Mike
hi beg Yeah. I know I'm not.

00:18:45.40
Bill
But I mean, copying good people too. And we've we've talked about that before, you know, just even if it's not a, or wasn't a sponsor, you know, there was people that we literally had to follow to figure out, you know, what to do, where to go, um not knowing how to do things and, you know, taking direction from our peers, if you want to call them that.

00:18:47.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:52.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:58.08
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:19:03.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:04.38
Bill
And, you know, literally trying to trying to emulate and and copy what these supposed good people were doing, right?

00:19:11.88
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:19:12.15
Bill
Yeah.

00:19:12.48
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And as we always talk about, you know, no bad examples, you know, there's no fucking way I'm doing it that way because that's just wrong.

00:19:18.78
Bill
Right.

00:19:24.21
Mike
um Yeah, so you learn those lessons too.

00:19:24.39
Bill
Right.

00:19:26.39
Mike
But again, it's about being open and willing. And yeah, you know, that's that's the bottom line. We have to be willing to take suggestions and look at a different way of doing things.

00:19:37.52
Mike
And you have to, because clearly our way wasn't working.

00:19:39.47
Bill
Right.

00:19:43.36
Bill
Yeah, you know, the the thing that fucking sucks, though, is it's still that all that all that stuff is still deep inside of me. I still want to rebel.

00:19:51.25
Mike
oh yeah.

00:19:51.27
Bill
You know, when people when people tell me to not when they try to help me, but when people do things in a in a backhanded type of way.

00:19:51.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:19:59.80
Bill
You know, and I've got a couple of work examples.

00:19:59.89
Mike
Right.

00:20:01.82
Bill
I won't muddy up this reading with them, but just make me think about them. But but i'm I'm not going to sidetrack on that at the moment. But, um you know, it's still it's that the if I felt if I felt like somebody was trying to ah before I got sober, if I didn't want to do something, I would do the opposite to say, fuck you to the other person, which I mean, literally was fucking hurt me, you know, which.

00:20:06.65
Mike
Right.

00:20:19.91
Mike
Right.

00:20:22.96
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:20:23.40
Bill
Yeah.

00:20:23.68
Mike
Right. yeah Drinking poison, expecting the other person to die.

00:20:27.25
Bill
Yes. Yeah, exactly.

00:20:28.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:28.70
Bill
You know, and, and, but I mean, that's, that's ah such a terrible way to live. But I mean, that was the, that was the way that we fucking lived.

00:20:36.07
Mike
Yeah. yeah It's the way our brains worked. It's the way we... Yeah. you It was our way. It's our way or the highway, man. Mm-hmm.

00:20:46.10
Bill
Right. Yeah. Again, two r to our detriment and and pretty goddamn close to almost to our death for but for that matter.

00:20:51.62
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:20:54.37
Bill
yeah So what else? What else in the reading? I mean, it was kind of short and sweet and to the point, but I mean, not a lot of stuff to really dig into, at least in my my opinion.

00:20:58.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:21:01.64
Bill
But I like it, though, because it does. it's a It's a nice, gentle reminder of, you know what? We don't fucking know everything. Yeah.

00:21:11.08
Mike
Right. And we can't do this by ourselves.

00:21:14.06
Bill
Yeah, that is that is the the most important number one thing. And we've talked about that all the time. the you know Obviously, the community and in everything. And same deal.

00:21:21.80
Mike
Right.

00:21:22.39
Bill
you know i mean i If anyone is listening to us, and if you got through that since it was 12-step without shutting off the episode, thank you.

00:21:28.55
Mike
Right.

00:21:29.03
Bill
Because you know hopefully people don't shy away from the fact that we talk about 12-step.

00:21:32.88
Mike
Right.

00:21:33.13
Bill
um But... All of this stuff, and we've talked about it enough. if you If anyone out there has listened to us enough, you realize that we, obviously, again, it's the way we were brought up. It was way in this thing. you know way We were brought up the way we do things, what we believe in, but we also understand there's other ways.

00:21:47.87
Bill
And it's it's our opinion that the 12 steps, you could take you could take these.

00:21:48.34
Mike
isn't it

00:21:53.18
Bill
Don't call them 12 steps. Just look at these things as life lessons and look at these things we talk about.

00:21:54.65
Mike
right

00:21:57.91
Bill
Just because we talk about, again, a sponsor. It was at Nico that we had on. As when he's telling his story and both of us are at the end just fucking laughing. It's like, what does that sound like?

00:22:06.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:07.66
Bill
You know, i mean, he he had a mentor that was a sponsor.

00:22:07.73
Mike
Yeah. Right. Exactly.

00:22:10.97
Bill
He'd went through these all these different, you know, this this criteria things which were steps.

00:22:15.36
Mike
hu

00:22:15.60
Bill
um Everything he was doing was was 12 step ish that he just didn't call it that.

00:22:19.24
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. You know, self-examination and and in confession and right and taking suggestions and doing things a different way and yeah and then helping the next guy. and Yeah, right. Exactly. It was all the same shit. It was just a different way to do it.

00:22:35.95
Bill
Right.

00:22:36.04
Mike
but it was But it's the same. Yeah, exactly.

00:22:37.66
Bill
Right.

00:22:38.24
Mike
You know, I mean, and that's just it. You know, surrendering, you know, then looking at yourself, then telling somebody else about it and then, you know, trying to fix it and acting differently and then, know, helping the next guy along, you know, trying to try to clean up your shit and make things better from the stuff you've done in the past and then, and then move on and help somebody else.

00:23:01.01
Mike
That's it.

00:23:01.14
Bill
right

00:23:01.70
Mike
That's all.

00:23:01.96
Bill
yeah

00:23:02.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:03.77
Bill
Yeah, it is. ah It's a, and same thing though. You know, I, didn't know, i didn't know about any of those things, any of these, these outside things. Not that I had anything against any of it. We've talked about it before, but I just didn't fucking know, you know, i get an Instagram and I see AF and I don't know what the fuck it is.

00:23:13.90
Mike
No.

00:23:19.24
Bill
i didn't know it was alcohol free.

00:23:19.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:20.86
Bill
I was like, as fuck. Yeah.

00:23:22.42
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:23:23.19
Bill
You know, this fucking gray area and, you know, but or sober curious and all these different goddamn things.

00:23:28.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:28.50
Bill
I have no fucking idea what these goddamn things are. But um I mean, they're I listen all these stories now where these people who cares how they fucking identify, you know, they're they're doing the same goddamn thing.

00:23:37.67
Mike
Right.

00:23:39.42
Bill
Oh, real quick. Did you see that Mark had Jamie Lee Curtis on?

00:23:44.51
Mike
I actually listened to that one this week.

00:23:46.23
Bill
Oh, you did. OK, so, um well, let's let's make sure anything else with the readings.

00:23:47.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:23:51.41
Mike
Nah, I think we covered it.

00:23:52.85
Bill
Okay. And I completely forgot about that. didn't even write this down as a note, but um so in that this, since this is the, the first one that you've listened to in a while um that we, that we've actually talked about that.

00:23:55.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:00.36
Mike
Right.

00:24:02.32
Bill
i mean, that I'm going to try to like dig on you.

00:24:04.96
Mike
her i' just Right.

00:24:05.75
Bill
this

00:24:06.02
Mike
mean, Right. i mean

00:24:07.32
Bill
No, as soon as I, so as soon as I said that, I'm like, fuck, I didn't, I'm, I'm not trying to like, Ooh, you haven't listened to do it. i didn't mean that, but.

00:24:12.67
Mike
right Right, yeah, well, that one, you know, I mean, yeah I love her. I have her long, long time. I mean, she's a sober scream scream queen who happens to be married to Nigel Tufnell from Spinal Tap.

00:24:22.08
Bill
Right.

00:24:26.62
Mike
ah Right, yeah, so I loved her.

00:24:30.90
Bill
right Yeah.

00:24:31.39
Mike
So I saw, she you know, I think I saw the Facebook post or whatever and went, oh, shit, cool. So I had some time this week. I actually had a day where I was – Doing a little bit of driving where I, yeah. So i I got that one down.

00:24:46.59
Bill
Good. So, I mean, you, guessing it sounded like you enjoyed it.

00:24:49.88
Mike
Oh yeah, absolutely. i yeah I knew I would.

00:24:50.70
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:24:51.88
Mike
Right. I'm not going to listen to what I don't want to enjoy. That's don't listen to a lot of them.

00:24:57.28
Bill
No, I know. It's just the same thing. You know, it's just, I, um I pay attention to the fact that, you know, again, and but as long as he's on, you know, he's been doing them for Mondays and Thursdays for, you know, as he said, for 16 years.

00:25:07.50
Bill
But um I just, I, I remember it.

00:25:07.72
Mike
Right.

00:25:10.42
Bill
I, you know, popped down and I'm like, I wonder who, I'm like, oh my God, Jamie Lee Curtis. And I just finished it up last night.

00:25:13.69
Mike
Right.

00:25:15.07
Bill
Cause I just, I listened to it while I'm getting my dinner together and it doesn't take me that long. So, ah you know, it takes me a you know few nights to to finish them.

00:25:21.62
Mike
Right.

00:25:21.88
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, I, ah once again, I, ive I enjoy her. I've always liked her. I actually looked for with this whole Audible thing. ah She has a ah ah memoir, biography, autobi whatever the hell it is. She's got a book.

00:25:36.02
Mike
Okay.

00:25:36.05
Bill
But um I don't think it talks a lot about her sobriety. But this is the first time I've really heard it explained about how she got sobered.

00:25:45.04
Mike
Right.

00:25:45.64
Bill
in in there, which I thought was interesting because two things that they kind of amazed because he brought it up and then, you know, she she almost seemed like she backed away from him, but then she kind of got into a type of thing and told the story.

00:25:56.44
Bill
she it It almost seemed like she didn't want to make a big deal about how she got sober.

00:25:59.20
Mike
Right.

00:26:00.11
Bill
Did you catch the same thing or no?

00:26:01.52
Mike
Yeah, little bit. Yeah. Well, i mean, you know, clearly it helped that Mark's sober too. So yeah, you know, um, yeah, if it had been just like a regular straight interview, I've heard her talk about it before.

00:26:06.41
Bill
Right. Right.

00:26:12.20
Mike
And yeah, she doesn't go into it very deeply, you know, clearly she lives it though. You know, you could tell that, you know, she, she lives the program.

00:26:17.50
Bill
Right.

00:26:21.17
Mike
Um, but,

00:26:21.29
Bill
Right.

00:26:22.18
Mike
But yeah, no, it was cool. it was It was very cool. Yeah, you know, she self-admitted high-bottom drunk, you know.

00:26:28.75
Bill
Right.

00:26:29.19
Mike
Yeah, she didn't get real bad or anything. She just like went, yeah, I have a fucking problem, you know. Yeah. yeah

00:26:39.17
Bill
Yeah. And that's, that's what kind of, uh, I was, it was fun to hear that because that that's what made me think about it when we were just talking about all these different people and their ways that they, that they got sober is the fact that she was, that she even said that she's like, and I think she even said like, I was a really high, high, high, high drunk or something.

00:26:54.36
Mike
Right.

00:26:54.90
Bill
um You know, but ah but yeah, I mean, like you just said, she you caught on the fact that which is just amazing. um I mean, good for her, you know, that that she I have a problem where I realize that when I do these things, it's going to be a bigger problem.

00:27:06.12
Mike
Right.

00:27:07.50
Bill
So, yeah, but that was the thing that I was going to mention when I when I started talking about it before I asked you that is that. That was the biggest thing I pulled from that is the, even though it was, you know, again, not this, not this long drawn out, um you know, bad situation she ended up in, which really doesn't matter.

00:27:22.65
Mike
Sure. Right. Yeah.

00:27:25.02
Bill
um But like you just said, she clearly, without a doubt, lives a sobriety and a recovery program.

00:27:30.60
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:32.86
Bill
And everything she was talking about, reaching out her hand to it, I'm here and this and that, and um all this different stuff.

00:27:36.07
Mike
Right.

00:27:37.79
Bill
I was just, it was so cool um to to listen to that.

00:27:40.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:41.34
Bill
But did you notice too, what it was i wasn't irritating me, but I keyed into it. I don't know if this is kind of like ah like a tick with her, but she kept saying, okay, well, i'm going to tell you something, Mark Barron.

00:27:51.47
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:51.68
Bill
And she would say, okay. She'd say his full name.

00:27:55.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:55.67
Bill
Okay, Mark Barron.

00:27:56.84
Mike
Right.

00:27:56.91
Bill
And she just said his full name all the time. And I'm like, that's got to be some sort of some sort of tick. you know i don't mean Or some sort of whatever.

00:28:02.84
Mike
Right.

00:28:04.10
Bill
i've I don't know. I've never heard. Not never, but you don't hear a lot of people say people's full names like that um on a constant basis.

00:28:08.00
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:28:11.12
Bill
Yeah. No, she was she was wonderful. She was really, really good.

00:28:14.47
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:15.62
Bill
But but yeah, I don't know. I mean, after after all of that, I might even if she doesn't talk about, you know, her now that I know where how how she lives her life.

00:28:24.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:24.47
Bill
um I mean, i always enjoyed her again as an actress and everything I've ever I've never heard anything bad about her.

00:28:27.23
Mike
Sure.

00:28:29.95
Bill
I'm like, yeah.

00:28:30.37
Mike
Right.

00:28:30.95
Bill
yeah

00:28:31.34
Mike
Right.

00:28:31.80
Bill
um But I don't know. even if she didn't talk about a full sobriety journey, which she doesn't have a big one, you know, for what it sounds like, I think listening to her, to her book would be, I think it'd be good.

00:28:37.75
Mike
Right.

00:28:42.07
Bill
I think it'd be interesting.

00:28:42.22
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:28:42.84
Bill
So.

00:28:43.99
Mike
Yeah. You know, I just, yeah. And I've always loved her, you know, so yeah. Yeah.

00:28:50.34
Bill
I'm making myself a note. I got to get that. I got to get that book because after I'm I've got a couple of things on the I started listening to the Charlie Sheen book. But, um you know, I've got if I if I stick with Audible for another couple of months and I might ah grab a couple of books out of it.

00:28:57.29
Mike
ah

00:29:03.84
Bill
But again, I'll talk about his book in in a little bit, but some of the some of the highlights. But so nothing else with the reading. Jamie Lee Curtis, we got a got a thumbs up on that. And.

00:29:13.36
Mike
um

00:29:14.04
Bill
Um, yeah, mark Mark was funny too. Whatever, whatever gifts she gave him and all that stuff when they, when she first showed up, made him cry, yeah which I'm not laughing at him.

00:29:20.27
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:22.97
Bill
It was, you know, he was basically saying it for his, you know, for Lynn to pass away and was kind of a, you know, a, don't know, a grief gift or whatever the hell it was or a healing, but whatever.

00:29:23.41
Mike
No. Right.

00:29:26.45
Mike
Right.

00:29:30.59
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:29:32.09
Bill
So yeah, it, it, it touched them. I think they had this whole moment before they even see, cause he's like i don't even know what we're going to talk about now.

00:29:35.99
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:29:38.54
Bill
He goes, you know, all this stuff came out here.

00:29:38.97
Mike
Sure.

00:29:41.39
Mike
right

00:29:42.58
Bill
Yeah, which I just thought was kind of funny. So, all right. So, yeah, that was a that was a good one. OK, we good on that.

00:29:47.96
Mike
you know

00:29:49.16
Bill
All right. So um this is a side note one this came across came across in the morning show. um The TV show Lost in Space. I know you remember that. and Some of our our listeners may because they're in our age group.

00:29:57.26
Mike
sure

00:30:00.55
Mike
see

00:30:00.78
Bill
Do you again, if you don't, it'll surprise me, but I'm sure you do. um Do you know Dr. Smith's real name?

00:30:08.37
Mike
Jesus, Jonathan. um Fuck. um ah

00:30:14.36
Bill
you you got to You got the first part.

00:30:14.40
Mike
ah Yeah, I know.

00:30:16.17
Bill
Harris.

00:30:16.41
Mike
Yeah, you're right. I know. um ah Oh, God damn it. COVID, man. COVID brain. That sucks. yeah i would What is it?

00:30:26.45
Bill
harris

00:30:27.44
Mike
Oh, yeah, that's...

00:30:30.87
Bill
I was going to say, it's going to be even worse when you realize what it is.

00:30:33.13
Mike
Yeah, yeah, it is. All

00:30:36.18
Bill
But, you know, so they, again, they're talking about, they talk about Lost in Space every once in a while. It's just one of those things that always comes up with them.

00:30:40.35
Mike
yeah all right. Mm-hmm.

00:30:42.32
Bill
um Just random shit.

00:30:43.93
Mike
Right.

00:30:44.26
Bill
ah But I, I don't, same deal, you know, when that came up, like ah um Dr. Frankenstein's first name, you know, I, there no recollection when they said Jonathan Harris, I'm like, eh.

00:30:51.19
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:55.79
Bill
Again, nothing, you know, no, i and I know I would have, I watched the show.

00:30:56.82
Mike
Right.

00:30:59.56
Bill
They had the goddamn credits. I remember the kid, Billy mummy or Moomy or whatever the fuck his movie.

00:31:01.21
Mike
see Moomy.

00:31:04.80
Bill
Yeah. That's what I wasn't sure how to pronounce, but I know his name.

00:31:05.25
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:07.82
Mike
isn

00:31:08.00
Bill
Um, I don't remember the rest of them, but I'm sure I saw fucking Jonathan Harris run across that screen. you know How many goddamn times, you know, nothing fucking clicked when it came across, but I'm like,

00:31:12.74
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:31:17.64
Mike
Sure.

00:31:19.13
Bill
I'm like, you're going to know it. But then, yeah, that that made me laugh when you were just trying to struggle for it.

00:31:22.98
Mike
it fall awful

00:31:23.15
Bill
Because, again, the the Jonathan part, I thought would be I mean, well, out of the two, that's the hard part.

00:31:27.46
Mike
sure

00:31:27.52
Bill
But OK, so that had nothing to do with anything, just testing out whether it's your covid brain or not, just testing you out. So.

00:31:35.82
Mike
but Okay.

00:31:37.29
Bill
All right. A couple of things that i think I wrote this down this week. um All right. So from Keep It Simple. Today, I'll choose one thing about myself I want to change, or I put in parentheses one thing that that we might or that you might want to improve.

00:31:55.45
Bill
Anything that ah right off the top of your head that you think that either you want to change, improve, or you know work on, or anything like that?

00:32:02.05
Mike
No, I'm fucking perfect.

00:32:04.54
Bill
Okay, next question. Wait, hang on. Note to self. Mike is. Let's go back to the reading.

00:32:10.04
Mike
ah

00:32:11.39
Bill
um Copy good people. So it back to copy.

00:32:13.18
Mike
Right. Yeah, right.

00:32:14.30
Bill
Mike.

00:32:16.23
Mike
Yeah, um yeah you know, tons of shit, man. I...

00:32:23.23
Bill
It's a tough one. I know. It's a tough question.

00:32:24.91
Mike
Right.

00:32:25.15
Bill
That's why that's why I wrote it down.

00:32:25.15
Mike
i mean you know I mean, you've kind of asked me that question before, and it does come down to you know my my empathy for other people. like

00:32:32.41
Bill
Oh, yeah.

00:32:32.68
Mike
I can always improve on that, which I know.

00:32:32.88
Bill
Yeah.

00:32:36.06
Mike
um it know Sometimes people make it really fucking hard. ah

00:32:40.02
Bill
Right.

00:32:42.63
Mike
But I so i can continue to strive. um Yeah, you know, that's always the one that jumps mine because that's the easiest one just to, you know, to try to understand other people.

00:32:54.12
Mike
i mean, kind of what we talked about last week, same shit, you know, you know.

00:32:58.03
Bill
right

00:32:58.72
Mike
yeah um But again, oh one of the gifts I've gotten from sobriety is being able to see things far clearer than I ever have in my life. And, you know, sometimes I just I look at stuff and and I go, wow, that's that's really awful.

00:33:16.32
Mike
ah

00:33:17.59
Bill
Right.

00:33:18.51
Mike
You know, um yeah yeah I'd like to try to understand you, but you're completely full of shit. And, um, and someone who has been completely full of shit in his past, um, I don't want to delve into that anymore because that's not the way I want to use my brain these days.

00:33:25.33
Bill
Right.

00:33:38.51
Mike
So, um, yeah, you know, but yeah, good people and, and whatever I do try to,

00:33:38.65
Bill
right

00:33:44.64
Mike
you know, as again, kind of back to the reading today, see what they're doing, you know, fuck, they're kind of a good person. Well, how are they that way? Because I'm certainly not.

00:33:56.68
Mike
Yeah, you know, again, and not perfect at it by any means, but, you know, better than I was yesterday.

00:34:04.24
Bill
Right. And you know, the the thing that is, and there ah there's, there's two things that I'm kind of scanning through some of these other ones that I have not even recently. I truly think, well, one one of two things um that some of the stuff has been on here for so long.

00:34:17.99
Bill
I think I've written it down twice.

00:34:18.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:19.15
Bill
I do. ah That's, that's number one.

00:34:19.97
Mike
Right.

00:34:21.76
Bill
But the other thing too, is that some of these, these books over the, over the years or on a yearly basis, um you know, they'll run into the same topic two, three days in a row.

00:34:26.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:30.01
Mike
Oh, sure. Right.

00:34:31.24
Bill
So something that caught me last year and I wrote it down this year, not from Tuesday's reading, but from Wednesday or Thursday's reading.

00:34:38.01
Mike
Right. Right.

00:34:39.13
Bill
That's why I think some of these things are coming up again, or I'm just fucking brain dead one, one, because I'm looking at, I'm looking at some of these.

00:34:42.50
Mike
yeah right

00:34:45.61
Bill
I'm like, there's like two more on here, maybe three that I think we've talked about as I'm scanning these, but I don't know.

00:34:49.37
Mike
is Sure.

00:34:51.11
Bill
Well, we'll, we'll work it out. We'll work through it.

00:34:52.65
Mike
Right. Well, I mean, you know, 187 episodes, man.

00:34:53.49
Bill
But

00:34:57.11
Mike
And I mean, and and clearly there are certain truths, man. And, and you know, it's a finite thing. You know, it's, yeah, there are

00:35:04.78
Bill
Right.

00:35:07.25
Mike
it's kind of a small number of, of good things. Um, and you know, there's different, yeah, well, you know, there's several ways to approach them and all that stuff, but there's, yeah, you know, there's only so many good things in this world and, you know, love and empathy and and caring and, and, you know, whatever, doing good for other people, being of service, you know, and and then the list kind of stops.

00:35:14.81
Bill
No, I know.

00:35:32.22
Mike
The rest of it's bullshit. Yeah.

00:35:36.30
Bill
Yeah, no, I know. And that you know it it it is the, because we talk about it and I know we need it. We need the repetition. We read these books and, you know, for some of them, you know, whether it's been 15 years or 14 years or 10 or five that we've been reading these recovery books, regardless, or depending on which one we're on, um you know, and once again, i I say it all the fucking time.

00:35:42.21
Mike
Oh, sure.

00:35:52.08
Mike
Right.

00:35:55.02
Bill
I don't remember these books from year to year, these readings.

00:35:57.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:57.67
Bill
um It's not like I read them and like, Jesus Christ, I got to read about, I got read about being a good person again.

00:36:02.79
Mike
Right.

00:36:02.82
Bill
I got read about, you know, What's the one thing I can work on today? Fuck. what When does, why? Why am I reading about, give give me some, give me some new fucking ideas.

00:36:07.99
Mike
Right. When does this stop?

00:36:13.17
Mike
ah

00:36:13.31
Bill
But, but you know, the thing of it is, it just reminded me again, when you said empathy. And I, as soon as I read this, I'm like, God, we've talked about this before. I was going say it in my head, but I'm like, maybe he won't notice, which I knew you would.

00:36:23.11
Mike
so hair Yeah.

00:36:25.01
Bill
Cause you said the same goddamn thing. You're like empathy. And then the night when I'm, you know what I'm going to say, patience, you know, it's, that's my biggest thing.

00:36:29.98
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:36:31.89
Bill
And I do. I'm i'm far more, not not just lately, partially lately, but over the last probably um six months or so when, you know, in and I know what it is because I'm i'm i'm tying all of this, my my feelings and my reactions.

00:36:35.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:46.07
Bill
And I wish I didn't, I could separate some of this sometime and I know what it is. It's my feelings and my reactions are tied to the thing that I'm most fearful of, and that's money, you know?

00:36:56.31
Mike
Right.

00:36:56.80
Bill
And it's my, when work has slowed down over the last six months, it's nobody else's, it just is, you know?

00:37:02.83
Mike
Right.

00:37:03.08
Bill
um So my money's down and it and it affects what I, what I do on my personal life.

00:37:07.28
Mike
Right.

00:37:07.36
Bill
It affects, you know, my, I'm tight on things and I can watch all this shit. i don't want to be that way anymore.

00:37:11.13
Mike
Huh?

00:37:12.78
Bill
And then I react to it and then i have less patience, you know?

00:37:15.77
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:37:16.42
Bill
So I know where, I know what it all is, but it doesn't, it doesn't, doesn't mean I can fix it.

00:37:18.57
Mike
Sure.

00:37:21.46
Bill
Yeah.

00:37:21.82
Mike
Self-knowledge is useless. I read that somewhere.

00:37:24.22
Bill
Right. yeah I know. But the only thing I guess, why and i'm I'm sure I've said this before. The only thing that I'm really grateful for is I do understand where it comes from.

00:37:34.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:34.67
Bill
And I'm not just lashing out and just being a complete fucking maniac.

00:37:38.08
Mike
right

00:37:38.30
Bill
um You know, if if I if I blow up a little bit, I blow up at myself.

00:37:43.16
Mike
to me

00:37:43.96
Bill
You know, when nobody's around or when I buy myself, but I end up reacting because I don't let shit out in public and go. Right.

00:37:50.11
Mike
Right.

00:37:51.09
Bill
the middle of a grocery store, you know, um like Jesus Christ, these motherfucking chips are like $14, you know, I mean, I'm i'm going through and i I, so for instance, this is a complete fucking side note, but I started buying the big, big, you know, family packs of chicken.

00:37:52.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:57.22
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right.

00:38:07.31
Bill
I love chicken, but I hate having to cut it up because don't like all the fat on there.

00:38:08.67
Mike
see

00:38:10.91
Bill
So I cut it up in this and that that's just being fucking lazy.

00:38:12.21
Mike
ah ha

00:38:13.84
Bill
But yeah,

00:38:14.16
Mike
right

00:38:14.89
Bill
but to buy hamburger chicken is like $2 and 29 cents a pound.

00:38:19.98
Mike
Right.

00:38:20.05
Bill
Fucking hamburger is like $4 and something a pound.

00:38:23.27
Mike
Right.

00:38:23.68
Bill
I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. And then I'm like, well, I don't think I should eat pork all the time. So it's probably not the best meat for you.

00:38:30.09
Mike
Right.

00:38:30.30
Bill
Um, you know, some of it could be fatty, but it's really fucking good. But then they'll have like their, know, these country style ribs on sale, they're kind of fatty, but I'm like, I can, sometimes I can get two packs or is buy one, get one 50% off and they're cheap to begin with.

00:38:43.45
Mike
ah ha

00:38:43.58
Bill
I get an entire week's meals of of the meat that I get for like $7.

00:38:48.08
Mike
right

00:38:48.87
Bill
I'm like, okay, do that or spend 25.

00:38:51.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:52.35
Bill
What am I going to do?

00:38:53.73
Mike
Right.

00:38:55.85
Bill
So, and I get, again, that's, that would be me what not wanting to freak out in the grocery store. As an example, I haven't bought closet i even bought closes and pickles in like a month and a half because they're, they're like $7 container now.

00:39:05.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:06.82
Bill
ah container now

00:39:07.92
Mike
Right.

00:39:08.82
Bill
And I, so I buy some off brand that I found when I was traveling and they have around here too. I can get them for $3 and 50 cents. They're not the same, but they're pickles. I like pickles, you know?

00:39:17.27
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:18.37
Bill
So I'm a little things, but, um, but it it goes back to, again, the patients and their frustrations that I know where it comes from.

00:39:19.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:24.80
Bill
But, um, I don't know. It's like, ah again, it goes back to what we were talking about, you know, when I was the whole thing, when I was kind of like, I don't know, doing my introspection after, after Sarah died, you know, am I happy at all points in my life?

00:39:35.06
Mike
Right.

00:39:37.33
Bill
Now, one thing shouldn't necessarily, I can't, I can't lay my happiness or. Let my happiness revolve around materialistic things. But mean, I've got to make a living.

00:39:46.35
Mike
Right.

00:39:47.73
Bill
I'd like to be a little bit happy with what I do.

00:39:50.09
Mike
Right.

00:39:50.17
Bill
And also I don't need to make a lot of fucking money. I've, I've resolved the fact, or I resolve myself to the fact I'm very simplistic. I don't need a lot of things, but there's a certain threshold that I need to be at.

00:39:57.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:00.77
Mike
Right.

00:40:01.02
Bill
And when I'm, when I'm like right at the the brim where my nose is just above the fucking water, I'm no longer happy about that.

00:40:01.05
Mike
Uh-huh. Yes, I know.

00:40:09.58
Bill
You know? So anyhow,

00:40:11.47
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Money's a little bit down and everything's more expensive. But thankfully, America's great again.

00:40:17.28
Bill
Yeah.

00:40:19.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:20.55
Bill
And you know, here's the other really good thing is that I'm not spending and you aren't either. We're not spending money on fucking booze, which is ridiculously, um I'm sure, I don't know how, how it's priced, you know, but if on top of everything else, if money was tight and all this different stuff, I mean, I'd still buy the fucking booze.

00:40:27.79
Mike
Right.

00:40:32.27
Mike
Right.

00:40:35.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:38.02
Bill
So I, something else would suffer.

00:40:38.09
Mike
Oh, yeah, of course.

00:40:41.45
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:40:41.77
Bill
Yeah.

00:40:42.20
Mike
Well, I think everything else suffered, if I recall correctly.

00:40:44.75
Bill
yeah

00:40:45.84
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:40:49.42
Bill
ah Let's see. mark Mike one, Bill zero.

00:40:53.25
Mike
a

00:40:53.96
Bill
Yep. you You got me on that one, you little motherfucker. that's ah yeah yeah that was That was the one right there.

00:40:56.99
Mike
Yep. Yeah.

00:41:00.33
Bill
Yep.

00:41:00.45
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:41:03.62
Bill
But yeah, it is. It's just, that you're right. I mean, when when you came back to to the initial part of it, mean, there's only certain things in this whole recovery thing. And you know what what we've talked about now for 186 and a half episodes really is about is about five things that we just fill time with the rest.

00:41:19.08
Mike
yeah right

00:41:22.99
Bill
yeah yeah Oh, speaking of that real quick, I want to mention our the guest that we just booked. um So her name is ah Beth. And I want to make sure to, I think I'm pronouncing this right.

00:41:35.41
Bill
I want the fuck is my ah just had her website up here. Now it's McDonough.

00:41:38.49
Mike
me

00:41:40.06
Bill
Oh, there we go. I'm like, Jesus Christ. Now it's like, God, did the internet go out? Am I going lose you?

00:41:44.87
Mike
Nope.

00:41:44.99
Bill
Okay. So her name is, and she reached out to us, you know, again, one of these ones we, for the most part, we don't fucking chase people anymore.

00:41:48.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:51.93
Bill
Um, for the most part.

00:41:52.03
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:41:53.55
Bill
And her name is Beth, uh, McDonough and it's a M C D O N O U G H.

00:41:59.72
Mike
Right.

00:41:59.77
Bill
She was a used to be a newscaster, but now she's a speaker and author, um was a journalist for years on TV and ah print and all these different things. She had reported on in her bio.

00:42:11.35
Bill
I can go through the whole thing, but I'm not going to.

00:42:13.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:13.27
Bill
um But she's got a book called Stand By. It's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble, but just stand by S-T-A-N-B, D, stand by B-Y.

00:42:25.30
Bill
Okay.

00:42:25.77
Mike
yeah

00:42:26.02
Bill
um But, um yeah, it's on Amazon. And she reached out to us and kind of went back and forth. So ah we're going to have a guest on on a rare Thursday night. It's not until October 30th, little over a month.

00:42:34.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:37.24
Mike
Right.

00:42:37.38
Bill
But we got actually some people coming up and leaves us a little space and in the middle there for, you know, just an us episode. But I don't know.

00:42:44.26
Mike
Right.

00:42:45.23
Bill
I think she'll be interesting. She's been sober for... I think 16 years now.

00:42:49.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:49.62
Bill
So a little bit, little bit of time before us. I didn't, I don't know exact sobriety date, but um I don't know. I, I popped around and did a little bit of searching and looked at her, her website and some other things and then a different podcast.

00:43:02.09
Bill
So listened to a couple of things. Sounds interesting. You know, intelligent, obviously articulate, um you know, seem like the the funny part is that I was, I listened when I can sometimes to figure out what are all these people doing? Cause I don't want to, well, we, we,

00:43:16.22
Bill
Don't want to do the same. so All these people are starting off reading off her bio, doing this, this same cookie cutter bullshit.

00:43:22.41
Mike
Right.

00:43:22.76
Bill
And I mean, we don't do that to begin with, but um she's just, she's a, she seems to be a good sport with whatever anything throw anyone throws at her.

00:43:24.64
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:30.36
Mike
Cool.

00:43:30.40
Bill
um So, I mean, she seems to be, you know,

00:43:31.42
Mike
yeah All right. Challenge accepted.

00:43:34.70
Bill
Yeah, I know. So, but that's, that's the other thing too, you know, seems to be a conversationalist. So um I don't know.

00:43:40.15
Mike
Cool.

00:43:40.77
Bill
I i think it's going to be a, I think it'll be a good episode, but you know, I threw, I threw it out to her that I don't know if I told you this, but I think I told you, but i don't know if I mentioned it on here. I stopped asking people if they've ever listened to us before, because if you haven't, well, tough shit.

00:43:53.32
Mike
Right.

00:43:58.34
Bill
You know, you reached, you reached out to us.

00:43:58.35
Mike
Yeah, right. That's on you.

00:44:00.55
Bill
You didn't do the research. It's going to go one way. It's going to go the other. And we're not going to push it in a bad direction. If it goes there, it's, you know, it's somebody else's fault, but I, she doesn't seem like that type of person, but um you know, I just, say I don't know.

00:44:05.83
Mike
No.

00:44:12.99
Bill
i I think it'll be interesting. And like I texted or emailed Mike the other day, like, she seems like she's kind of a big deal. So.

00:44:19.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:20.68
Bill
You know i don't know, I don't know how these people find us sometimes, but anyhow, we we always end up, you know, it's the it's the Father Bills and the you know the Tom Farleys and Ian, you know, that the found us.

00:44:30.83
Bill
And I don't know, i mean, just about all these random guests that we've had on outside of our friends um or just came out of the blue, you know, contacted us and they end up being, um you know, interesting and decent decent guests.

00:44:38.93
Mike
Right.

00:44:42.32
Bill
So. Oh, um, so little Dickie was on, uh, somebody that we know was on, he was on that, that person's podcast.

00:44:47.87
Mike
Right.

00:44:49.89
Bill
I didn't listen to it, but I, I randomly about a month, month and a half ago.

00:44:51.23
Mike
well

00:44:53.77
Bill
And I forgot to tell you, and I'm like, I was going to listen to it.

00:44:55.15
Mike
ah

00:44:56.82
Bill
I'm like, nah, I'm going to fucking fill, fill my brain with little Dickie news.

00:44:58.02
Mike
beautiful for

00:45:01.49
Bill
So fuck that dude.

00:45:01.88
Mike
o

00:45:04.40
Mike
right

00:45:05.63
Bill
Anyhow. So on that note, on the, on the fuck that dude note, what do you, what do you think?

00:45:11.84
Mike
Right. Well, I think we're going to be right back after these words from our sponsor. Boring. Boring.

00:45:28.02
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back.

00:45:31.43
Mike
Again.

00:45:33.00
Bill
Boring.

00:45:34.04
Mike
boring

00:45:35.42
Bill
Boring. Yeah.

00:45:36.48
Mike
yeah

00:45:37.73
Bill
Yeah.

00:45:37.80
Mike
ah again

00:45:37.85
Bill
Who knows? I,

00:45:38.58
Mike
Low energy, man. I'm um'm i'm trying, kids.

00:45:43.23
Bill
So um do you want to yeah you want to hear about the baby shower last week? Because it was ah it' actually one, the baby shower itself, it was what it was. it was It was beautiful. So just as a quick recap, in case anyone didn't didn't pay attention, my um it's by my stepson from my second marriage.

00:45:54.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:45:59.79
Bill
um Him and his girlfriend are having a baby. They're due December 1st. sixteenth I think middle of December, roughly in that area. So they had a baby shower up in Wisconsin and I just did a day trip back and forth and it was nice.

00:46:10.68
Bill
You know, it was from one to one to four, a lot of people, a couple of their, you know, I mean, friends and stuff that I knew, other family members there that I knew.

00:46:11.33
Mike
Right.

00:46:17.93
Bill
um Just ah a nice gathering with and good seeing a bunch of people and, you know, all that stuff.

00:46:21.35
Mike
Sure.

00:46:22.86
Bill
But so, um, so I get there and I got there a little bit, a little bit early and I was texting Derek and he's like, well, you can, you guys, we're, you know, we're helping them get set up. And, um, you know, if you want to come up early and I said, just, I said, let's ask Alec.

00:46:33.95
Bill
I said, I don't, I'm not trying to intrude. I'm like, if he's like, well, he'll probably just put you to fucking work, you know, you know, he said, he said, her mom will, I'm like, I'm fine with that.

00:46:36.24
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Right.

00:46:42.95
Bill
I just, I don't want, I'm not trying to invite myself, you know?

00:46:44.88
Mike
Right. Exactly.

00:46:46.52
Bill
So he's like, no, it's all cool. you know Come on up. So like I got there, don't know, a little bit, half hour before it was going to start. And um Corey was out in the parking lot. So it was we were walking back in, shooting shit with him. And then um obviously saw Megan, that's Alec's girlfriend, right away. Gave her a hug, Alec a hug.

00:47:02.79
Bill
Saw Dawn and I'm like, i'm like hey, I'm cramming a bee. And kind of joking with her, I'm like, did you pick a name for yourself yet? She's like, how am I going pick a name for myself?

00:47:11.70
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:47:12.05
Bill
You know, I'm like, are you going to be like Meemaw or something like that?

00:47:15.11
Mike
Right.

00:47:16.75
Bill
She's like, I don't want to be Gigi. And I'm like, well, we did that for, you know, for great grandma, Grandma Jay. But I'm like, that was for that that was for the kids type of thing.

00:47:22.00
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:47:23.81
Bill
But um so going back and forth on that, she's like she's like, oh, by the way, she's like, i we we have soda for you.

00:47:24.16
Mike
Right.

00:47:30.51
Bill
I've got some Diet Dr. Pepper. like, oh, I said, you don't do that. said, i yeah there's water. I could have done whatever. She's like, well, I asked Eric and he ah he's the one that mentioned. I said, I truly appreciate it. I said, thank you.

00:47:39.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:40.42
Bill
And because they had a bunch of coolers, obviously, with their beer and their wine coolers or whatever not wine coolers, but whatever, their little...

00:47:43.12
Mike
Sure. Wine coolers, old man.

00:47:46.32
Bill
Yeah. Wine coolers.

00:47:47.07
Mike
Bartles and James.

00:47:48.47
Bill
yeah but What are those little spritzer things? They have little cans of it's yeah, they're whatever they are there to me.

00:47:52.76
Mike
Yeah, right. a White Claw or whatever. Yeah. yeah Yeah, exactly.

00:47:57.26
Bill
They're, they're, just they're, they're a fucking wine cooler. I'm sure it's so that's, that's where it comes in my mind, but you have. Yeah.

00:48:03.88
Mike
Ziva.

00:48:05.23
Bill
yeah Fucking Ziva. Those things are fucking terrible. But, um, uh, Dawn Kimmy's Bob, he's a rock. Pam, Kimmy's mom used to like wine coolers. don't know.

00:48:14.63
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:48:15.01
Bill
I remember having those. They were in in the refrigerator at Mom and Larry's for for years. I don't know if Mom used to drink them. Probably not. But I think obviously for company. But I know that Pam drank them.

00:48:25.42
Bill
and I know other people did. But I don't know why it makes me laugh.

00:48:27.16
Mike
Right.

00:48:30.30
Bill
Bartles and James. but so So anyhow, so they got all these different coolers. so She's like, it's in this cooler. She's like, right yeah right on the side. Whenever you're ready. She's like, but... And she's pointing her finger at me, you know, she goes, she goes, i only, I only have six in there.

00:48:39.76
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:48:44.07
Mike
ah hu

00:48:44.16
Bill
And I said, I said six. And then, you know, kind of fucking with her.

00:48:46.70
Mike
Right? Yes.

00:48:47.84
Bill
Right. You know?

00:48:48.29
Mike
Right.

00:48:48.99
Bill
And then she's like, yes, six. So you got to pace yourself.

00:48:51.90
Mike
yeah

00:48:52.07
Bill
You only get, it's a, it's a three hour thing. You know, she's like, you get two an hour and that's it. And she walks away and Derek, Derek, Derek's sitting there laughing. And I'm like, oh fuck am i um I'm fucking sober.

00:49:02.57
Bill
And I got to moderate myself a goddamn soda.

00:49:03.79
Mike
yes

00:49:05.18
Bill
Yeah.

00:49:05.54
Mike
right

00:49:05.79
Bill
you know So that was at Lappin. And then I went up, we got the food and whatever. They had ah this whole little taco bar type of thing. um So I got some food and I'm like, I went to grab ah ah went by one of the coolers. So like, Corey's like, oh yeah, we got soda for you. And I'm like, hey yeah, yeah. Dawn already told me. I said, I can only have six, whatever. yeah

00:49:21.75
Mike
hey

00:49:21.91
Bill
You know, kind of messing with him. So he's digging down and he pulls out, it's a middies. They're like little, the little seven ounce,

00:49:28.57
Mike
Right.

00:49:28.88
Bill
like mini cans. Then I'm looking, I'm like, I'm like, well, well shit.

00:49:30.55
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:49:32.15
Bill
Now I know why she's telling me I can only have six.

00:49:33.51
Mike
Right.

00:49:34.75
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, Jesus Christ. going to have enough?

00:49:40.18
Bill
I swear to fucking God, this is so goddamn ridiculous. Okay. So once again, grateful. I didn't care. There's water. If I really wanted something else to drink, I'm not going to, I'm not going to like go thirsty.

00:49:49.20
Mike
ah

00:49:51.69
Bill
Okay.

00:49:52.22
Mike
Right.

00:49:53.25
Bill
But I swear to God at the time when I looked at these seven ounce things, this has got to be, and you tell me, I think this has got to be the old alcoholic mentality. I literally swear to God in my head had this passing thought of, God, I wonder if I'll have enough, you know?

00:50:08.11
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:50:08.82
Bill
And that's that's alcoholic thinking, right? I mean...

00:50:12.01
Mike
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Right. How am I going to get by?

00:50:19.77
Bill
ah And again, i swear to fucking God, I know I'm fine. I'm not going to I have no desire to sit there. i think I had I literally I had I think I had three of them because I had I had two plates of food and I think I drank one with each one of those and had one to begin with.

00:50:29.27
Mike
Right.

00:50:33.50
Bill
You know, so um i wasn I wasn't like, you know, fucking, you know, shaken or anything like that, you know.

00:50:34.23
Mike
Right.

00:50:38.45
Mike
Yes. Right. Yes.

00:50:39.11
Bill
You know, going, God damn it. where What the fuck's my, need more diet Dr. Pepper, man. You know, but, um, but yeah, it was just, to it was, it was so stupid.

00:50:43.03
Mike
right

00:50:46.76
Bill
I was laughing at myself. I'm like, I got to remember to tell you about that because I mean, literally, like you said, am I going to, how am I going to get by?

00:50:49.86
Mike
yes

00:50:54.95
Mike
right

00:50:57.31
Bill
i don't know if i'll have enough

00:50:59.83
Mike
It's never enough.

00:50:59.91
Bill
This is fucking stupid. I know, but it was just, it was really nice. It was just really, really nice. And, you know, they just, they, you know, sat there opened up the gifts and did the whole thing. And it was just, it was nice. You it was just nice to, it was just, and I, I posted on Instagram.

00:51:09.76
Mike
Cool.

00:51:13.40
Bill
I know popped up on Facebook, but I think what I put was very simple. I'd say just nice to, to be a part of, you know, um all that stuff.

00:51:18.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:21.01
Bill
Because, you know, the the thing of it is, and really when it comes down to, um to Alec and I mean, I've been around him, you know, since he was little under two years old. You know, so I mean, and he's 20, Derek's going to be 20.

00:51:29.73
Mike
Right.

00:51:33.21
Bill
He's 27. I think he just turned 27.

00:51:36.11
Mike
Okay.

00:51:36.34
Bill
If I'm thinking right. um Yeah, I think he did. 98. Yeah, yeah. I think he just turned 27.

00:51:42.11
Bill
You know, so I mean, I've been around him for, you know, 25 fucking years, you know.

00:51:45.07
Mike
Right.

00:51:45.71
Bill
um I'm close to him. I tell him I love him, all those sort of things, but I don't i don't see him all the time, you know.

00:51:49.99
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:51:52.90
Bill
And, you know, really when it comes down to it's not it's not like he reaches out to me. I don't reach out to him all the time. We see him when they're around.

00:51:57.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:58.50
Bill
That's how, you know, our relationship has been over the years.

00:52:00.28
Mike
Sure.

00:52:01.12
Bill
Both of us are fine with it. I know that for a fact. um But I mean, had I not been invited, I wouldn't have been offended, you know.

00:52:07.83
Mike
isn

00:52:08.60
Bill
Um, I'm really, really glad I was, it was nice. It was a really nice gesture to be involved.

00:52:11.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:13.66
Mike
Absolutely.

00:52:13.77
Bill
Um, because I, I didn't, it wasn't, it wasn't a given. and I don't mean that in a bad way.

00:52:19.10
Mike
Right.

00:52:19.45
Bill
Um, it just, it's, um, I, I feel honored. Is that the right way? I'm just, I'm grateful to be, to be involved.

00:52:23.11
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. God, look at that. They want you around.

00:52:31.25
Bill
Yeah, yeah, I know. I know. It just, it is, it's just, it's, uh, it's just, it's just fucking wonderful. It's just really, it's just really nice.

00:52:36.75
Mike
It is.

00:52:38.48
Bill
So, um, yeah, it was, uh, again, you know, one of those things, you know, it's not that I haven't done it before, but you know, the back and forth and, you know, you, you drive, you know, six, seven hours, you know, back and forth again, not a big deal.

00:52:49.77
Bill
Nothing I haven't done before.

00:52:51.49
Mike
Right.

00:52:52.55
Bill
Um, you know, but you know, kind of a long day on a Sunday, but mean, I got back by, i don't know, like six 30 or something like that, you know, which is normally when I get done eating dinner.

00:52:58.74
Mike
Oh.

00:53:00.62
Bill
So i have plenty of time to sit on my ass and eat my ice cream and you tell the normal stupid stuff that I do.

00:53:03.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:06.14
Bill
So, but it was just, I don't know. It was just nice. But yeah, the, the Dr.

00:53:08.65
Mike
Cool.

00:53:09.80
Bill
Pepper thing was what, uh, what kind of cracked me up. Fucking moderation. Fuck moderation.

00:53:14.12
Mike
Yes. so

00:53:16.51
Bill
You have to moderate. No, I don't like to.

00:53:18.55
Mike
No, that is not in my DNA.

00:53:23.05
Bill
Right. Okay. Let me, ah let me try to pick out another one of these things that, that we haven't talked about. So this is from touchstones and I, again, I haven't been reading touchstones that long.

00:53:28.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:32.25
Bill
So hopefully this will be, this will be gold, Jerry.

00:53:35.51
Mike
All right.

00:53:35.77
Bill
um Some of us have said, if I expect the worst, I won't be disappointed. Fuck. We talked about this, didn't we?

00:53:43.66
Mike
yeah i don't know.

00:53:45.54
Bill
um The last part of it. If I think the worst about myself, no one else can cut me down. Did we talk about that?

00:53:51.15
Mike
Not really. No.

00:53:52.29
Bill
Okay. Okay. So on let me, since I, since I fucked it up to begin with, let me, let me act as if I never read this before.

00:53:57.99
Mike
and Okay. Take two.

00:53:59.47
Bill
All right. Some of us have said, I'll expect the worst. I won't be disappointed. If I think the worst about myself, no one else can cut me down. Okay. What are your thoughts? My friend, Mike, over to you.

00:54:11.04
Mike
Right.

00:54:13.81
Mike
Oh, no, clearly. Yeah, it was a big part of the way I used to operate. oh Yeah, you know, ah if ah I'm a total piece of shit, there's no way anybody can, you know, and tell me I'm any worse than I'm telling myself.

00:54:29.71
Mike
ah Beat you to the punch. um Same thing with, you know, yeah, everything's going to be awful. So when it is, um I'm prepared for it Um, yeah, which is no way to fucking live, but you know, I, I certainly did for a very long time.

00:54:38.73
Bill
Yeah.

00:54:44.82
Mike
Um, you know, I, I'm not saying I'm, I'm just huge optimist now today, you know, everything's going to be fucking wonderful, but, um, I don't, I don't expect the worst anymore.

00:54:59.47
Mike
Um, and when, you know, yeah, clearly when shit happens, cause it does, um yeah, I'm prepared for it. Cause I prepared most of my life for it. But, um, you know, I, I, because I'm open to good things happening now, um, kind of like, you know, you were just talking about being invited to a family thing that, you know, you really kind of didn't think that you would be, or, you know, have to be, or any of that stuff, or I have to be there for this.

00:55:29.34
Bill
right

00:55:29.67
Mike
Um, Right, but when when it happens, it's it's beautiful. we can, I think, appreciate it even more. um Yeah, you know, it's, again... I don't expect things to be wonderful, but I don't expect things to be completely awful anymore either, which is a huge improvement.

00:55:47.24
Mike
So, right.

00:55:47.63
Bill
right

00:55:50.10
Mike
Yeah, it's it's it's just a better way to live. You know, things you know underlying, yeah, there's going to probably be some shit along the way, but eventually it's it's going to be all right.

00:56:01.81
Mike
And I think that's a far better way to live.

00:56:04.92
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, the and I think, I mean, truly, that was that was behavior that um obviously, you know, pre-sobriety behavior of yeah I always and I think I've mentioned this before.

00:56:16.29
Bill
I'm pretty sure I have, you know, expecting the worst, you know, so not not being disappointed.

00:56:19.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:21.34
Bill
And I and I think I mentioned because I still have I don't have a mindset of expecting the worst, but. I do have a mindset of, you know, kind of running through, playing the tape through, even in a good situation, you know, or even in a positive thing that I'm doing and trying to figure out, you know, all the, all the scenarios and, and if I could deal with them and if it turns out to be, and maybe it's the, the amount of work that might be involved or the amount of, um you know, whatever I'd have to do or what this could take.

00:56:33.05
Mike
Right.

00:56:47.45
Bill
Like you said, you know, when we were talking be before we recorded that, you know, this is what you do. You don't want to do this. um this would be a lot of extra effort for you that you don't want to put forth.

00:56:53.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:57.09
Bill
And there's nothing wrong with that.

00:56:57.51
Mike
Right.

00:56:58.37
Bill
You know, um you know, you know what you want to be in your life is your, this is your deal. And this is what you, this is where you want to be.

00:57:04.43
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:57:06.63
Bill
And, you know, I like right now, I mean, if I don't know if there's there's probably things that, that I could um maybe jobs I could get that I would really fucking enjoy maybe, but I would have to go back to school.

00:57:15.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:16.01
Bill
I don't want to go back to school, you know?

00:57:16.54
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Now.

00:57:18.27
Bill
I mean, really, I mean, I have people that can work or not even can people who do work full time and then actually go back to school at night and that sort of thing and online courses.

00:57:26.88
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:57:28.38
Bill
And I give those people all the fucking credit in the world because, I mean, I'm old and lazy you know now.

00:57:30.79
Mike
Right.

00:57:33.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:57:33.90
Bill
But even when I was young, I was still fucking lazy, you know, and I wouldn't have wanted to do it.

00:57:36.45
Mike
Right.

00:57:38.22
Bill
um But I mean, I don't know what just the you know, i so I look at all that stuff. But the the biggest thing, too, is that, yeah, if. I don't know, not wanting to be cut down. I think I had not even think I had a far lower self-esteem, obviously, before I got sober than I do now.

00:57:56.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:56.56
Bill
It's not that I don't care at all. You know what people think people that I that I care about.

00:57:58.85
Mike
Right.

00:58:01.97
Bill
I care about what they think about me. People that are that i that are close to me in my life.

00:58:04.12
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm. Right.

00:58:07.46
Bill
You, Kathy, my kids, that sort of thing.

00:58:07.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:09.96
Mike
Right.

00:58:10.38
Bill
you know But i i think I know that if somebody had a ah bad or negative feeling or reaction to me these days, it's going to be my fault.

00:58:20.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:22.73
Mike
Right.

00:58:23.14
Bill
I think, you know, for, for the most part, I think it's going to be my doing because you know what, what you were just talking about.

00:58:24.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:30.64
Bill
I mean, the fact that, you know, you're, we live a life, you know, we try to make people, you know, our corner of the world, a better place. We try to do all these different things.

00:58:36.48
Mike
right yeah right yeah right

00:58:37.89
Bill
And if we're, if we're doing all the right things and other people that we don't give a shit about, don't like us, fuck them, you know? Oh, you're, you're mad at me because I'm living this kind of life. Well, fine. Fuck you. You know?

00:58:48.79
Bill
Um, but you know, the people around us, I, I would think that if somebody was mad at me, it would be based on something that I did incorrectly to them, not necessarily just out of the blue.

00:58:56.97
Mike
right hmm

00:58:58.99
Bill
So I'm not really worried about being cut down. I don't want to be made fun of necessarily by anyone. Cause it's just fucking pain in the ass. You know, it's more irritating than anything, but, um, I want to be loved and respected and cared about by people that care about, if that makes sense.

00:59:06.16
Mike
Right.

00:59:13.77
Mike
Right. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. People whose opinion I value um because they've earned that from me.

00:59:18.69
Bill
Yes.

00:59:21.82
Mike
um Yeah. You know, if they if if they're pissed at me or they're, you know, yeah, clearly it's because I'm doing something wrong. Yeah. I agree 100% with that. um Yeah. And the rest of them, like you said, yeah, I'm doing the right thing and you don't like it.

00:59:34.38
Bill
yeah

00:59:35.97
Mike
Fuck you.

00:59:37.23
Bill
Right.

00:59:37.77
Mike
Yeah. You don't like it because it's making you look bad? Well, okay. Good.

00:59:45.98
Bill
ha

00:59:48.32
Mike
I couldn't think of a better way to be.

00:59:50.92
Bill
right Yeah.

00:59:51.43
Mike
You're pissed at me because I'm making you look bad because I'm doing the next right thing and you're clearly not? Oh, well.

00:59:59.32
Bill
It's just, I, that, just that, that concept is so, it's so fucking ridiculous, you know? I mean, ah but ah maybe there is, maybe ah who who knows, maybe there's people out there that, you know, that, that had issues with us for for being who we are.

01:00:04.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:12.40
Mike
Hmm.

01:00:12.48
Bill
Maybe there's people that think that, that we think we're better than other people, which we don't, you know, but I think that,

01:00:15.83
Mike
Hmm. No.

01:00:18.69
Bill
I think that there's an air of competence to what we, what we are doing with our lives. And it's not, I don't think an arrogance, there was just an air of, you know, competence where just, you know, we, we exude, maybe that's a, I don't know.

01:00:23.98
Mike
Right.

01:00:29.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:32.42
Bill
Right.

01:00:32.44
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:32.86
Bill
Exude. Is that a right way to put it?

01:00:33.39
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

01:00:34.14
Bill
Okay.

01:00:35.41
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:36.19
Bill
You know, and.

01:00:36.22
Mike
Yeah. um Again. Yeah. I've look, I've done the wrong thing a whole hell of a lot in my life.

01:00:41.14
Bill
Right.

01:00:42.22
Mike
Right. I know what that is.

01:00:42.66
Bill
Right.

01:00:43.50
Mike
Right. And I know that I'm not doing that today. um And if you've got, again, you've got a problem with that. That's your fucking problem.

01:00:51.75
Bill
Right.

01:00:52.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:52.53
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:53.29
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:54.12
Bill
Fuck you.

01:00:55.04
Mike
is this

01:00:56.76
Bill
is If there's anyone that hates us and there's, I got one on hate on here too. um If there's, if there's anyone out there that hates us and we didn't, we didn't literally do anything to you.

01:01:06.86
Mike
Right.

01:01:07.55
Bill
Fuck you.

01:01:08.34
Mike
chee chi Yeah.

01:01:09.49
Bill
There, there. Now I'll give you a reason to hate me. Fuck you.

01:01:12.01
Mike
Right. Fuck you and your families too.

01:01:15.88
Bill
Yeah. Fuck you and you. Fuck you, hater.

01:01:20.49
Bill
um Okay. So this is just kind of funny because I glanced over this and I saw it. So let's, let's talk about this. So this was from keep it simple and it says it's self-centered to hate, which I thought was interesting, but it says today I'll read the passages of the big book that covers self-centered behavior.

01:01:28.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:39.19
Bill
Do you know of the passages in the big book?

01:01:43.24
Mike
No, not offhand.

01:01:44.73
Bill
Okay.

01:01:44.83
Mike
You know, I mean, we've all we've always said we're not chapter and verse, guys.

01:01:44.97
Bill
So, um,

01:01:47.75
Mike
Oh, yeah. Page 83, fourth paragraph, you know. Right. Yeah. Chapter and verse in the Bible. You know, Ekeziah fucking 621.

01:01:59.22
Mike
I know that's not a real one. So I did it on purpose.

01:02:01.68
Bill
You know what? The thing with it I wouldn't fucking, it I'd be like, yeah, I haven't read that one yet.

01:02:04.94
Mike
and

01:02:07.80
Bill
But, um okay, so let's, ah and I was going to look in my in my handy dandy big book app.

01:02:12.79
Mike
he

01:02:12.85
Bill
um But, so first of all, your thoughts on, ah do you agree with that? It's it's self-centered to hate.

01:02:20.22
Mike
um yeah i you know of course um right because i mean where where does the hate come from it comes from me feeling that you're ah different that you're i don't know you're not like me so i don't like you um

01:02:40.14
Bill
hey

01:02:41.00
Mike
right yeah i don't hate anything anymore so i guess that's that's kind of nice i don't like a lot of things but i don't hate anything um yeah so um yeah of course it's self-centered to any emotion like that that's that's that powerful i mean other than love um

01:02:49.32
Bill
Right.

01:03:02.37
Mike
Anything negative like that, yeah, it' it comes from not thinking about others. You know, there's just that empathy shit again. Yup.

01:03:12.79
Bill
That empathy shit. Yeah.

01:03:14.81
Mike
yelp Yeah, you know, completely discounting another human being.

01:03:16.48
Bill
ah

01:03:24.17
Mike
um Yeah, that's pretty fucking selfish.

01:03:27.61
Bill
Right. Yeah. And um I mean, number one, I agree. And I'm just looking here in my big book app. But just ah there is mention. First, I did self-centered without the without the dash, like putting it together.

01:03:42.30
Bill
And there was nothing. I'm like, well, what the fuck? It's in. Keep it simple. It's got to be in here. Right.

01:03:46.46
Mike
Right.

01:03:46.88
Bill
So so for anyone out there, I I.

01:03:47.60
Mike
Well, I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, my, one of my favorite books is our favorite things from the big book is, you know, um, yeah, yeah. Selfishness and self-centeredness that we think is the root of our troubles.

01:04:01.72
Bill
Right, and that's that. I'm like, there's of course it's in here, but yeah, i just then I put the dash, hyphen, whatever you want to call.

01:04:04.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:06.71
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:06.83
Bill
So it's in... There's one in Bill's story, three mentions of it and how it works. there's It's in the To the Wives and the Family Afterword. um I can pop into either one of these. So if anyone's in...

01:04:17.95
Bill
If you're a big 12-step person at all, we're clearly might just you know hit it on the head. We're not chapter and verse people.

01:04:24.01
Mike
Right. Ooh.

01:04:24.85
Bill
I have what's called a 12-step companion and I paid $6 for it, which if ever listened to years back when we were talking about it, I was mad.

01:04:30.86
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. Right. Yeah,

01:04:33.49
Bill
I refused to pay the $6 at the time. It's $6 lifetime.

01:04:35.69
Mike
right.

01:04:36.79
Bill
That's lifetime that's it

01:04:39.13
Mike
right yeah

01:04:39.86
Bill
One, one time, like 14 years ago, I paid $6, but anyhow, it's a big book.

01:04:40.04
Mike
right

01:04:46.72
Bill
It's a big book app so I could look up words. So let's look in Bill's story.

01:04:49.07
Mike
All right.

01:04:50.65
Bill
Um, paragraph starts off simple but not easy. A price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness. I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all.

01:04:57.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:03.42
Bill
Okay, that doesn't get into a lot of deep stuff.

01:05:03.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:05.08
Bill
Let's go into how it works. Our actor is self-centered, egocentric, as people like to call it nowadays.

01:05:11.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:11.54
Bill
He is the retired businessman who... who lulls, lulls, lulls, lulls in the and the Florida sunshine in the winter, complaining ah of the sad state of the nation, the ministry who sighs over the sins of the 20th century, politicians and reformers who are sure would be, or who are sure all would be utopia,

01:05:15.99
Mike
Lolz.

01:05:31.61
Bill
Ah, selfishness, self-centeredness, that we think is the root of our troubles.

01:05:36.35
Mike
Yep.

01:05:36.64
Bill
Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step onto the toes of our fellows and they retaliate.

01:05:45.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:45.39
Bill
Sometimes they hurt us, sometimes, or seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some point in the past, we have made decisions based on self, which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

01:05:45.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:58.94
Mike
yepe

01:05:59.03
Bill
So I think that would be a good, that's, that's, that would be the paragraph that we were kind of like looking for. Right. So I like that one that is on, if anyone's keep it track, that's on page 62, paragraph two of the big book.

01:06:11.61
Mike
Ooh, there it is Write that down.

01:06:14.44
Bill
Yeah, write that down to to never look up again. But no, one of the reasons I got, I liked the the sobriety counter. I just liked the way the app was. That's why I wanted to begin with. But it is, it's a it's a mobile big book app.

01:06:28.39
Bill
um And I found out after the fact, you know, obviously that you could search and, you know, it's word search and all that stuff, which has been helpful. But I bought it at the time because, you know, i I actually went to some meetings where they ran out of big books. And this one lines up with the exact pages of the big book.

01:06:44.87
Mike
Right?

01:06:44.93
Bill
So if the if the meeting was doing a reading from page 61 of the big book, I could go to page 61 and i'm um' I'm right there with the with the meeting. um So that's originally why why I ended up getting it.

01:06:55.52
Bill
But I like the app, too. So, OK, so self-centeredness and hate. We we agree. Are we at we in agreement?

01:07:00.78
Mike
Mm-hmm. We are.

01:07:01.95
Bill
Yeah. If we weren't, we'd have a fucking problem, wouldn't we?

01:07:06.62
Mike
i don't know, would we?

01:07:06.78
Bill
yeah I don't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe not. um All right, here I got one one more thing that I want to tell you about the Charlie Sheen stuff. So this one just kind of came across my head, probably listening to a podcast at one point recently.

01:07:21.90
Bill
So for anyone out there that is not an AA person, um the only requirement for membership for Alcoholics Anonymous is a desire to stop drinking. That's it.

01:07:32.50
Mike
Right.

01:07:32.63
Bill
So you can walk into a meeting anywhere in the world.

01:07:35.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:35.32
Bill
And if if you have the desire ah to stop drinking, which we've talked about before, ah we've known people that go into a meeting.

01:07:40.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:42.32
Bill
And well, I know one guy that used to use in a bathroom. You do too, right?

01:07:45.49
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, i' met him once or twice.

01:07:49.54
Bill
There's people that we've known that who is that guy and who do you know used to sit up in the front row drunk every fucking week.

01:07:53.86
Mike
oh God, yeah. I can picture him. I can't remember his name. was he He might have been a Mike, wasn't he?

01:07:59.62
Bill
hey He could have been.

01:08:00.82
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:00.98
Bill
So that did we just call him Drunk Mike?

01:08:01.00
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:03.36
Mike
and There's been a few of those.

01:08:07.00
Bill
But yeah, you know seriously, there was a guy at our in our home group, and who do you know, that sat right in the front row, and he was fucking loaded every goddamn week.

01:08:11.93
Mike
it

01:08:13.84
Bill
Young-ish guy, if I remember correct.

01:08:13.94
Mike
Yep. Right.

01:08:16.69
Bill
You know, but um but anyhow, so that that is that's the the only requirement for membership is that. So my question for you, though, is that do you think, um you know, this time coming in, do you feel like you were a true member of a based on that membership requirement from the start when you walked in?

01:08:37.14
Mike
Um, yeah, this time, absolutely. yeah You know, I mean, you know, I mean, when I went into the rooms before, um before I did the work and all that good stuff did, you know, yes, there was, there was something in there, um, a desire for something.

01:08:43.08
Bill
OK, good, good.

01:08:56.84
Mike
I don't know if it was to quit drinking or not. It's definitely to stop, you know, the pain and the, the consequences.

01:09:06.60
Bill
Right.

01:09:07.60
Mike
um um, yeah, you know, I, you know, I don't know that I truly had desire to stop until, ah until this time.

01:09:17.41
Bill
Right.

01:09:17.47
Mike
Um, I, I, you know, i had moments where, yeah, it, i I thought it would probably be nice if I didn't have to drink anymore. um But I'm an alcoholic. So yeah, I had to drink without doing, you know without doing the work that I did not have that choice.

01:09:36.20
Mike
I had to drink one way or another, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you know, eventually, and that proved over and over again all that, yeah, I had to drink eventually until,

01:09:49.66
Mike
um Until I started doing the work, man. and But yeah, this time i definitely had the desire to stop. I didn't know if I could. i didn't know that it if it would work. um But I had the desire.

01:10:03.64
Mike
So, yeah.

01:10:03.79
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know what? I mean, I'm actually glad the way that you said that about, you know, the, but what you said prior to, you had the desire for something because that, you know, and, and I'm, I'm, I've never lied about the fact of, you know, how I was and, you know, my mindset and the fact that I didn't want to get sober and all that, that was not my, my main motivation, but we've also talked about I'm, I'm not denying the fact that there had to be, I mean, granted, I had no place to go.

01:10:12.84
Mike
Right.

01:10:18.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:23.64
Mike
Right.

01:10:29.78
Bill
i was taken there, no gun to my head, but yeah, they did. They came in, they dropped me off. I had no place to go.

01:10:35.35
Mike
Right.

01:10:35.54
Bill
All those sort of things were true, you know, but like everything else in my life up to that point, I, I know for a fact, I thought that there was, there was, I was going to find the angle, you know, i was going to find something.

01:10:37.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:47.10
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.

01:10:48.66
Bill
I wasn't going to be here. was going to kick back for a little bit. i was just going to do this because everything always, and I'm going use the biggest fucking air quotes. I can't seemed to work out for me, which didn't nothing ever did.

01:10:56.03
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Uh-huh.

01:11:04.60
Bill
Okay.

01:11:04.70
Mike
Right. Yeah. But your perception of, yeah, got through that, got, got, yeah. Right. Exactly.

01:11:09.66
Bill
Right.

01:11:09.88
Mike
i I understand completely. Right.

01:11:13.80
Bill
But you're, yeah, you're always just, you're, you're basically, ah you're, you're happy with putting yourself one step ahead of, of the train that's, that's coming down the track.

01:11:23.07
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:11:23.57
Bill
That's, that's it.

01:11:24.58
Mike
Yeah.

01:11:24.67
Bill
You're not getting hit by the train yet, but it's, it's literally nipping at your heels, you know, um all the fucking time.

01:11:28.44
Mike
Yes.

01:11:30.12
Bill
But as long as you're ahead of it, you know, you're, that's, that's getting out Everybody's going be fine.

01:11:34.17
Mike
Right.

01:11:34.90
Bill
You know,

01:11:35.18
Mike
That's good enough.

01:11:37.72
Bill
but you know, I, I do believe, um, you know, now I, I believe, and I, I feel there was something there, you know, um,

01:11:45.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:46.17
Bill
and And the fact that i that i that I stayed, the fact that I, you know, somehow opened up my eyes and opened up my mind. And I mean, ultimately opened up my heart to what was going on there.

01:11:54.95
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:11:57.81
Bill
And, you know, the the people and it all you guys, you know, all the people that I was fucking afraid of and it didn't belong and I didn't belong there and I'm not one of these people, you know.

01:12:00.96
Mike
Right.

01:12:03.38
Mike
Right. Right.

01:12:07.83
Bill
And then just realizing that this is this this community of and and I can feel comfortable and I'm i'm safe, you know, in all this shit fucking stuck up on me, which is which is perfect, you know.

01:12:19.63
Bill
So I don't I truly don't know what the desire was. I don't know if I I think I fit the requirement because I I could have left, you know, so something was was making me stay.

01:12:27.70
Mike
he

01:12:30.00
Bill
So apparently I had the desire to be there. to an extent, even if it was a glimmer.

01:12:34.08
Mike
Right. Right.

01:12:35.99
Bill
Um, but I, didn't walk in there being like, I'm, I'm fucking ready. This is my moment. You know, like we hear leads like that all the time, you know, and I'm ready.

01:12:42.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:43.61
Bill
I'm good. I got to clean up my shit. Um, I know what I got to do.

01:12:46.69
Mike
Sure.

01:12:46.89
Bill
Um, I'm here to do it. Mike, the Michaels of the world, you know,

01:12:49.32
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:12:50.33
Bill
Because that's what my when Michael came in this time. We've talked about that.

01:12:53.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:53.51
Bill
I mean, he was ah was a fucking miracle, you know, it seemed.

01:12:55.69
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:55.83
Bill
but But I mean, he bounced around and, you know, went through all this different other shit, you know, to get there.

01:12:56.85
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:13:00.81
Bill
But he fucking had enough, you know, and he wasn't playing, you know.

01:13:02.60
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah, right.

01:13:07.15
Bill
which Which is great. I mean, he was – guys like that, you know, were – I'll just say it. I mean, guys like that were an inspiration to me, you know?

01:13:13.48
Mike
Sure. Absolutely.

01:13:14.75
Bill
So – but I don't know. I was just kind of – when I – whatever made me think of it or if I heard about it on a podcast, whatever the deal was, I just thought that interesting question because that's – I think that's one that we've never really talked about.

01:13:27.79
Bill
Not specifically.

01:13:29.00
Mike
Right.

01:13:29.03
Bill
Not specifically. So – All right. um A couple of Charlie Sheen things. So I finished the the second part of the documentary and it was it was good.

01:13:37.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:38.27
Bill
I mean, you know, the the the thing with it that I watched it kind of from a little bit of a different angle after you said ah after you and I were talking last time ah when you were talking about, you know, how that very intelligent tells a good story and all that stuff.

01:13:46.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:50.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:50.98
Bill
And I really paid attention to that because i wasn't I don't know that I was keyed into that. I knew it, but I wasn't really keen into it.

01:13:56.89
Mike
Right.

01:13:57.13
Bill
um So, i mean I mean, seriously, thank you for bringing that up because it'll it allowed me to, when actually in listening to his book, to really realize what a good storyteller is. hes His stories are interesting, but he's telling, he's got the ability to tell a good goddamn story, you know?

01:14:06.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:11.23
Mike
Right.

01:14:12.38
Bill
And he's not really making it. He doesn't want, he doesn't need to sensationalize anything.

01:14:17.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:17.57
Bill
Um, you know, cause his shit was his shit. So, all right. So first of all, um, two corrections from last week, I said, I thought he was worth, um, at his peak two 50.

01:14:27.47
Mike
hu

01:14:27.68
Bill
Um, you said 100 million.

01:14:29.92
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:30.04
Bill
Um, when I, I found it again, it was one 50. Okay. Okay.

01:14:33.13
Mike
Okay.

01:14:34.09
Bill
So I'm giving you that one because that I was wrong. I don't know where I thought I read that from way, way over.

01:14:37.10
Mike
You went over. Yeah.

01:14:39.23
Bill
You went under, you were good.

01:14:40.75
Mike
yeah

01:14:40.83
Bill
Yes, Bob, let's give it to Mike.

01:14:41.92
Mike
Yes. Right.

01:14:44.97
Bill
And then um same deal. Cause they were in the second part of the episode. They had, that they focused on a little bit more with, you know, John Cryer on there from two and a half men and, Um, his, his stuff was interesting.

01:14:55.26
Bill
I'll tell you that in a second, but, um, he was talking about the money that he was making. He's like, shit. He goes, I was making like a third of what, what they, what they paid him, which was 2 million.

01:15:02.75
Mike
Right.

01:15:03.19
Bill
I thought it was three.

01:15:03.64
Mike
h

01:15:04.71
Bill
Okay.

01:15:05.35
Mike
ah hu

01:15:05.58
Bill
But still he's making 2 million an episode. Okay.

01:15:07.54
Mike
right

01:15:08.73
Bill
And what John Cryer was in, he was complaining about, he was open about the whole thing. When he sat down to begin with, when they first opened up the documentary, he said, he goes, I'm here. Something along the lines, I think he said that I wasn't sure if I was going to do this, but he said, he goes, I'm not here to, you know, berate him or put him down. But he said, I'm not, I'm also not here to defend him. He goes, I'm going to talk, I'm going talk the truth and tell the truth and be real.

01:15:32.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:33.06
Bill
You know, and it was good. I mean, I'm glad he said that right off the bat. It was a great, you know, just kind opened up. I'm here. not going fuck around, you know.

01:15:38.94
Mike
Right.

01:15:39.49
Bill
um But he said basically as as Charlie Sheen was because that the whole two and a half men thing is when he was going into his deepest dive. And, you know, the network obviously ended up firing him, but they ended up just they they kept paying him more fucking money, you know.

01:15:52.46
Mike
Right?

01:15:52.90
Bill
And what they what they likened it to. I don't remember if Charlie Sheen did or if it was John Cryer. um What's to do the dude, the guy who rules North Korea? What's the dude's name?

01:16:04.70
Mike
Oh, yeah. King Jong-un, I believe.

01:16:06.91
Bill
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:16:07.41
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:08.41
Bill
They said that people, um that obviously all the countries around them, everyone, you know, so fucking afraid of them. Everyone kept, you know, giving them money and giving them money because figuring that, okay, let's make them happy, just give them more money.

01:16:18.50
Mike
Right.

01:16:18.83
Bill
They were likening Charlie Sheen to that. It was such a fucking mess. They just, you know, I was afraid of how he was going to ask, let's pay him more money, so see he kind of straightens out, which I'm like, that's fucking crazy, you know?

01:16:27.60
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:16:29.08
Bill
Yeah.

01:16:30.39
Mike
Right. As an alcoholic. Yes. Just keep giving me more money. Keep enabling me. That's wonderful. That'll fix it.

01:16:37.17
Bill
Yeah, I you know. It was just, it was fucking nuts. um But he said that he was a couple of years sober at one point when he when he got antsy. And that's when, because he went back and forth, obviously trying to get sober.

01:16:49.95
Mike
isn't

01:16:50.10
Bill
But he said that he started to get antsy about whatever it was. And that's when he started taking pills. And the funny part was, is he said he knew it could be a ah problematic road.

01:16:55.02
Mike
Right.

01:16:59.46
Bill
ah But as he put it in his words, he said he negotiated the hell on him with himself.

01:17:04.10
Mike
Yes. Right. Uh-huh. Right.

01:17:07.48
Bill
But that's how he got into his whole pill addiction and and all that sort of stuff that led into everything else.

01:17:11.22
Mike
aha right

01:17:12.50
Bill
um But he said, as far as the money he was being paid on two half men, he said the tube that's where the two million came from. He said and then I looked it back up. He said two million per episode was too much money to give a guy like me at the time.

01:17:24.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:24.43
Bill
you said He said this openly. He said that was a recipe for disaster.

01:17:29.14
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:17:33.03
Bill
I'm like, that's just fucking great. And then um you start going to see a drug counselor and his, this is kind of funny. This is how he ended up getting sober. so So take this, um his drug counselor actually talked to his drug dealers. He had this long time, long-term friend that he actually met. It was his drug dealer and turned into a friend for years and years.

01:17:50.61
Bill
They even still be a friend, I think. um But as this drug dealer, if there was any way that he could make the crack less potent,

01:17:57.64
Mike
yeah yeah

01:17:59.32
Bill
so So what the dealer did, the the dealer slowly started to reduce the amount of cocaine that he was putting or using to make it.

01:18:05.85
Mike
yeah

01:18:06.39
Bill
So as Charlie said, he goes, he goes, literally, he goes, they were trying to get me off of crack by giving me weaker crack. But he said that's that's how he got sober because what what ended up happening at the end, um basically they were literally, they were like weeding him off that way.

01:18:21.78
Mike
yeah

01:18:22.84
Bill
And then I guess he just got to the point where he's like, well, fuck this. He goes, this is this is too much goddamn work. It's not even doing anything to me anymore. So that's what he that's when he got sober.

01:18:29.64
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:18:31.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:33.32
Bill
I'm like um like, Jesus Christ. But again, all the shit that he was going through, and they showed him in his and his winning stages and all this different stuff. And after he got got fired, just, I mean, everything that that we've seen, and you know and obviously TV and the tabloids and all that shit over the years.

01:18:47.51
Bill
um But the interesting interesting part that he said that at one point in that documentary, on that second part was, And I thought this was great because, I mean, um it's something that we actually talk about. But he said um there are supporting players in this story that are more important than myself.

01:19:05.85
Bill
And damn, you know, and here's the funny part. Well, not the funny part, but, you know, you were, it just reminded me of the Jamie, the Curtis thing, you know, um there are certain things and and you could tell that he's at least unless he's putting on a real good show, which who knows, maybe he is, but he seems to be living a recovery life, you know, and it's things like that.

01:19:23.34
Mike
Right.

01:19:24.88
Bill
And the way he was telling his story and the way he was just being open with all this different stuff. And, um you know, I mean, looking back and they're flashing all these pictures of him and the, again, the winning stage and how he looked and, I'm just like, man, this I'm like just a fucking mess, you know?

01:19:34.63
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:19:37.34
Bill
I mean, I, I remember and we've talked and we tell stories about, but I mean, I haven't had somebody, you know, sit down and show me a fucking video, you know, I mean, of, of all the bad decisions I made in my life.

01:19:46.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:49.50
Mike
Right.

01:19:50.87
Bill
That would be it it's it was hard enough, you know, like having Kathy on the podcast, um you know, talking to family members at times, whatever the case is.

01:19:54.71
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:19:58.23
Bill
But I couldn't imagine sitting down and having that public of an existence and then going back now, you know, being like he is being eight years sober.

01:20:02.91
Mike
Right.

01:20:07.86
Bill
I mean, can you imagine sitting down and having to just OK, this is this was me and talking about it?

01:20:11.82
Mike
Right. No, thanks.

01:20:15.87
Bill
Yeah, that's kind of exactly exactly what I thought. i just i couldn't I just couldn't imagine going through it. But then um I did start listening to the to the book also. um His first arrest was for, i forget how old he was, but just for he got he got busted for weed.

01:20:32.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:20:33.06
Bill
So he he's he fell asleep. ah It was a buddy of his but buddy him and he that went to some party. And then they ended up I don't remember, i didn't remember where they were parked. But they ended up parking the car someplace and just to like sleep. They parked like either by some bridge or under some bridge or whatever it was.

01:20:49.78
Bill
Both fell asleep. His buddy ended up like leaving and walked home.

01:20:53.98
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:54.00
Bill
um So he woke up to a cop and him and his buddy were negotiating. Yeah, he woke up to the cop. Obviously, got arrested. But he said basically what him him and his buddy did after that was um just kind of like figured everything out. This I thought was true.

01:21:07.69
Bill
alcoholic behavior. It's like, okay, so this is, this is what happened, right? So I'm not going to do this part.

01:21:11.06
Mike
Right.

01:21:12.63
Bill
We're we're still going to go out, but I'm not, he in his words, he goes, I'm not going to take, just take some random weed nap under a bridge.

01:21:13.98
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:19.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

01:21:21.43
Bill
And he goes, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. So he said, basically that he and his buddy just figured it out. So figured out, just negotiated everything to make sure it wouldn't happen again.

01:21:29.46
Mike
Yep.

01:21:29.52
Bill
And I remember doing that when, you know, and well, that's what that counselor was telling me, you know, when I, my DUI, my drug class, I'm like, she's like, well what are you gonna do with this?

01:21:35.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:21:38.95
Bill
Well, gonna do this. I'm not gonna do that. Oh, Bill's gonna try to control his, his drinking.

01:21:43.70
Mike
Right.

01:21:45.65
Bill
Well, yeah. I mean, why, why wouldn't I as a full blown fucking alcoholic?

01:21:48.56
Mike
Right?

01:21:49.53
Bill
I mean, of course I'm going to, but, um, I don't know.

01:21:49.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:52.31
Bill
It just, it's his book. It just one of those things. That's like the only thing I really wrote down from, from the book part of it It's just, it's an interesting, I almost said interesting read, but just an interesting, listen, you know, they're, they're talking, he's talking about, uh, you know, his,

01:22:06.33
Bill
um obviously his start in the movies and you know martin sheen and his time with apocalypse now and um that the penn brothers and you know the i mean all there's a penn brothers that live back there i think i told you that at that time rob lowe lived there um all these other you know these other people that he met over the years and um i don't know it's just it it's it's an interesting story and uh i'm i'm enjoying it so highly recommend highly recommend the the book or you know certainly the documentary if you get if you get the chance to do it so

01:22:09.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:17.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:27.94
Mike
Cool.

01:22:32.27
Mike
Right.

01:22:35.21
Bill
right. Any questions for me?

01:22:36.79
Mike
Now, now. Mm-hmm.

01:22:39.85
Bill
yeah I knew you didn't. Oh, quick side note that I've got a, I found this hiking story. it's very, very short, but um I got to read this headline here.

01:22:46.48
Mike
me

01:22:48.13
Bill
But um so it popped up on Facebook. So um from a couple episodes, I just, as a reminder by my friend, Sarah, she died and blah, blah, blah. And were talking about how, how bland the obituary was and that nothing planned for or anything like that.

01:23:00.44
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:23:00.57
Bill
So it it popped up on Facebook.

01:23:00.77
Mike
Mm

01:23:02.01
Bill
They're having a Um, now a celebration of life for her on October, i don't know, third, October 5th, whatever it is, some Sunday, that first weekend in October, which I was happy to see that they're, they're actually, family's actually doing something for her.

01:23:10.42
Mike
hmm. Right. hmm. Right. Right.

01:23:16.69
Bill
But here's the line. And this line was, uh, her mom said it on Facebook at at one point, but this was also in the, um, you know, just kind of like, oh, get together, blah, blah, blah, this and that. And, um, but it said, um, we hope that she found the peace that she was always looking for.

01:23:32.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:33.31
Bill
So in the mom said the same thing in one of those posts, which again, that just, you know what that does that just that solidifies what whatever happened, you know, but I mean, same thing.

01:23:38.88
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:41.19
Mike
Sure.

01:23:43.01
Bill
I mean, there's ah once again, no details or anything like that. I haven't seen anything else. I have been stalking people for it. but When I saw that note, I kind of looked into a couple of, you know, like pages, if anyone ever said anything, nobody did.

01:23:54.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:54.08
Bill
Um, but I mean, that's it. You know, there's just people are, i mean, her, her family said that, uh, they hope that she finds the, the piece that she was looking for, which again, I mean, that just, it tells me that tells me everything that, uh, I don't want to know.

01:24:02.45
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:24:07.62
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

01:24:10.15
Bill
All right. On a lighter note, want to talk about, uh, hikers that are high.

01:24:13.87
Mike
ha These the guys on mushrooms?

01:24:17.44
Bill
Yes. Okay.

01:24:18.14
Mike
Yes.

01:24:18.32
Bill
so you did hear about that. God damn it. That's okay. Do you, do you know enough about the story that you want to tell it? do you want me to?

01:24:24.52
Mike
no, no, I definitely don't.

01:24:26.74
Bill
Okay. Okay. So, and this just came up. Um, I, I just ran across it. Um, this wasn't even a kicker story. You must've heard it on Alan Cox, I'm guessing.

01:24:34.49
Mike
Yeah, something like that.

01:24:36.59
Bill
Yeah, and I think I just, however, I guess it doesn't really matter. but So it says four hikers rescued after suffering debilitating psychedelic mushroom high.

01:24:45.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:24:47.44
Bill
And now that's not the best while in the mountains, okay?

01:24:51.03
Mike
right

01:24:52.10
Bill
So I'm like, Jesus, God damn Christ. First of all, four hikers were rescued in upstate New York after they got lost. Wait, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait. So you're on mushrooms. Okay.

01:25:02.44
Bill
And you got lost.

01:25:03.97
Mike
Right.

01:25:06.81
Bill
Note to self.

01:25:07.90
Mike
Right. And your belly button.

01:25:11.45
Bill
Uh, experience that they, they got lost while experiencing debilitating psychedelic mushroom high over Labor Day weekend, August 29th. The hikers were in slide mountain wilderness near giant ledge, um, interconnected trail hiking rain or hike ranging from 1000 or 1100 to 2600 feet in elevation.

01:25:30.00
Bill
Uh, when they sent a text message reporting that they are lost, um,

01:25:33.70
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:25:35.10
Bill
The caller told dispatchers that the group had consumed mushrooms and that one individual was experiencing a debilitating high.

01:25:42.74
Mike
Hmm.

01:25:43.03
Bill
um The group was later helped down the trail and escorted the trailhead where they were evaluated by an ambulance.

01:25:47.86
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

01:25:49.39
Bill
um The group also lost their car keys during the incident.

01:25:52.94
Mike
shit

01:25:55.94
Bill
ah So the rangers provided a courtesy ride to the hiker's rental lodging. ah Following day, officials returned to see the area and located a sling bag containing the missing keys under a log and tall ferns.

01:26:08.08
Bill
Mushrooms can affect, oh, here's, this is the PSA.

01:26:11.15
Mike
ahha

01:26:11.87
Bill
According to the Alcohol and Drug Foundation, psychedelic mushrooms can affect all the senses, altering a person's thinking, sense of time, and emotions.

01:26:19.46
Mike
since

01:26:19.63
Bill
Psychedelics can cause a person to hallucinate, see, or hear things that do not exist.

01:26:24.73
Mike
e

01:26:25.22
Bill
Okay. So first of all, um I've been, did I tell you I'm a hiker?

01:26:30.73
Mike
Yes, I have heard that.

01:26:31.51
Bill
Okay.

01:26:32.35
Mike
Yes.

01:26:32.55
Bill
Okay.

01:26:32.68
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:26:32.75
Bill
I just, I didn't know just in case you didn't know, but um I, did I mention also, I've been on some mountains every once in a while and, and well, hang on.

01:26:39.06
Mike
Sure. I bet on mushrooms. it All right.

01:26:43.35
Bill
That's, that's going to be my, that is, that is part of my question. I do want to hear about that. I so i swear, but, and I've been on mountains that are, you know, 1100 and 2600 that I think the highest peak I was on was like 55, 5,600 feet, whatever it was.

01:26:56.16
Bill
It's like this tallest peak and wherever. And i mean, it's that's creepy enough being up that high sometimes, you know, when you're ah at the edge of one of these, again, the elevations one, but then you're on on the edge of a, you know, a 900 or 1000 foot bluff and or cliff or whatever.

01:27:01.47
Mike
Right.

01:27:07.99
Mike
Right.

01:27:09.20
Bill
So um I couldn't even imagine. I mean, if I while I was still drinking, I would have been dead by now doing half the things I've done if I was still drinking.

01:27:15.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:15.84
Bill
So.

01:27:16.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:16.85
Bill
I wasn't even going to ask you because my my question to you was going to be um not if you've done mushrooms that I know you have.

01:27:21.93
Mike
Yes. Sure.

01:27:23.20
Bill
ah That was the the assumption was you've done mushrooms before.

01:27:23.50
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:27:25.72
Bill
So I just seriously, I was curious. Number one, how was the experience? And hopefully you were grounded yeah at the time.

01:27:32.93
Mike
yeah

01:27:34.63
Bill
And could you imagine ah being on a mountain while you were on mushrooms?

01:27:39.49
Mike
All right. Well, first of all, um I have to say that ah mushrooms didn't do a lot for me.

01:27:45.81
Bill
Really?

01:27:45.97
Mike
of Yeah.

01:27:46.09
Bill
Okay.

01:27:47.10
Mike
Yeah. I mean, um I would get like mild um and I would like, you know, people I would do more than people around me and they'd be tripping balls and I'd be like going, eh, whatever.

01:27:59.44
Mike
um

01:28:02.17
Mike
Acid, on the other hand. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, they they didn't, for whatever reason, didn't affect me all that hard. So I've had some mild, you know, euphoria and whatever, blah, blah, blah.

01:28:16.61
Mike
But yeah, I certainly never hallucinated on mushrooms. Acid, yes, but not mushrooms. So, um yeah, I don't know.

01:28:22.92
Bill
okay

01:28:24.90
Mike
ah For some reason, yeah, they don't affect me very much or didn't or probably still don't. I'm not going to find out today. um Yeah, that wasn't, it they didn't do much for me. I could probably handle those today.

01:28:39.95
Mike
um

01:28:40.75
Bill
Right.

01:28:41.03
Mike
Rationalize. Do some negotiation with myself.

01:28:45.68
Bill
right

01:28:46.21
Mike
um all Yeah, um you know, but whatever. I mean... Like I said, I've had a couple of pretty intense acid trips. And, yeah, I wouldn't want to be on top of a mountain tripping balls like that. So, no, I don't know, man. What the fuck's wrong with people?

01:29:06.64
Bill
Well, and and I know that, you know, the whole Joshua tree or go out in the middle of the desert and all those sort of things, that seems to be the the thing to do when, you know, people people do mushrooms and find themselves in whatever.

01:29:11.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:15.48
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:29:17.96
Bill
And, you know, this, you know, supposedly supposed, you know, spiritual journey while you're, you know,

01:29:23.24
Mike
Sure.

01:29:24.10
Bill
all fucked up and you know, fine. I, I'm not judging people, but, um, I am judging you to try to have that spiritual experience on a fucking mountain, you know, because, um, I, I've seen, you know, I haven't seen people that really have done it, but you know, I, ah again, movies, TV shows, depictions, I don't think they're, you know, it's completely, I'm sure some of it's hyped up, but yeah, yeah.

01:29:26.79
Mike
Right.

01:29:31.03
Mike
Right.

01:29:43.83
Bill
People just, you know, everything like the PSA said, I'm, I'm guessing that those are the things, you know, that a lot, some people, like you said, tripping balls and whatever.

01:29:51.07
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:51.99
Bill
It's always a great term. I love it. Um, but i don't know. I just say, i couldn't, I couldn't imagine being out of my senses in any way, shape or form, um, under any of these, you know, taller hikes that I've been on like that.

01:30:00.64
Mike
Right.

01:30:05.92
Bill
I just, um, I couldn't imagine.

01:30:06.34
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:08.27
Bill
I couldn't imagine.

01:30:08.55
Mike
Right. Yeah. You know, whatever, man.

01:30:14.42
Bill
Yeah, I mean, again, the the fact that that i I don't have to worry about that today, thankfully. i've got ah I've got a choice that I don't have to worry about that today.

01:30:19.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:22.31
Bill
But, I mean, I don't even want to be sleepy if I'm, you know, on top of fucking mountain.

01:30:22.59
Mike
Right.

01:30:26.45
Mike
Right. Right.

01:30:28.70
Bill
I mean, I don't see how I could be walking around, you know, hiking and be be sleepy. But you know what I mean? and don't I don't want to be out outside of my outside of my mind and and that sort of thing. So, yeah.

01:30:37.81
Mike
Right.

01:30:38.66
Bill
All right. So, no, I just ah i literally ah maybe it was a bad assumption. Clearly not. But I didn't want to assume that you've done mushrooms, but I was pretty goddamn sure, because I think, as you said it before, first of all, you've been you've driven everywhere and you've done everything, you know, as far as, you know, from drugs.

01:30:47.71
Mike
yeah

01:30:53.88
Mike
right

01:30:55.35
Bill
So I'm like, ah why why wouldn't I think that mushrooms were were in the mix?

01:30:59.56
Mike
Yeah, they were.

01:31:02.95
Bill
right. So um I think that's ah that's probably all the that's all the stuff I got. I think. I think we're i think we're good.

01:31:08.52
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:09.76
Bill
if you're If you're good, I'm good, we're good.

01:31:10.02
Mike
We are.

01:31:12.04
Bill
Your turn.

01:31:12.54
Mike
I'm good. Yes. Oh, my turn. Wow. yeah Here we go. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature, the Murderer episode.

01:31:26.05
Mike
As always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth,

01:31:44.21
Mike
always and eternally. Fuck you. Now it's that time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

01:31:54.70
Mike
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate and dream the impossible dream and keep fucking off forever.

01:32:07.73
Mike
ever

01:32:09.42
Bill
I think that was pretty good for you being, you know, kind of tired, worn, COVID brain, fog brain, whatever the case was.

01:32:14.17
Mike
Yep. Sure.

01:32:15.80
Bill
think that was pretty goddamn good. So real real quick thing, Vince Neil, he's a, he's a favorite of yours, right? yeah I know that's a no.

01:32:23.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:24.26
Bill
Okay. So this is just, this will take two seconds.

01:32:27.04
Mike
Yeah,

01:32:27.29
Bill
Did you, did you hear, I just heard the other day that he had a stroke last December.

01:32:30.58
Mike
and sir

01:32:31.13
Bill
Did you know that?

01:32:32.16
Mike
yeah I heard.

01:32:33.36
Bill
I didn't know that. they They said that, you know, I mean, to the point where they had to teach him to walk again and blah, blah, blah.

01:32:37.56
Mike
see

01:32:38.48
Bill
You heard about that?

01:32:39.40
Mike
Yeah, whatever.

01:32:40.18
Bill
Okay. Well, now here's here's the here's the thing. This is leading up.

01:32:42.66
Mike
The murderer... Oh, well.

01:32:43.98
Bill
No, I know. yeah Here's a punchline. Somebody said, could couldn't they have also taught him how to sing again?

01:32:50.64
Mike
yeah

01:32:50.90
Bill
Hello.

01:32:54.12
Mike
and Clearly didn't forget how to eat.

01:32:56.53
Bill
Yeah, he didn't forget how to eat, but he stood there. ah When I heard that, is they they said that line, and I'm like, that is fucking hilarious. it

01:33:03.94
Mike
That's pretty good.

01:33:05.06
Bill
Yeah, I thought you'd. That's why I was leading you up to it, I know you don't like him, and I know that i know the story behind and all that stuff. So I'm like, I'm going to work him up and give him the punchline. so

01:33:13.81
Mike
Thank you.

01:33:13.99
Bill
So you're welcome.

01:33:14.21
Mike
Love you too. We shall. Bye.

01:33:15.14
Bill
Just say thank you, and you're welcome. You're welcome.

01:33:16.84
Mike
thank you

01:33:18.15
Bill
All right, man. I love you, brother.

01:33:19.69
Mike
love you too

01:33:21.17
Bill
Talk soon.

01:33:22.04
Mike
we shall

01:33:23.58
Bill
Bye.

01:33:24.59
Mike
bye