SoberNotMature - Episode 186 (Don't Be A Dick)

00:00:01.48
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And i guess right off the bat, are we are we done with the danger moose and the cheese thing?

00:00:12.55
Bill
Are we going to try to carry that on?

00:00:13.00
Mike
I think it's ran its course.

00:00:14.03
Bill
or

00:00:18.95
Bill
It hit wore on its welcome in one week.

00:00:20.20
Mike
yeah Exactly. Yeah, they were canceled.

00:00:24.28
Bill
yeah You know, it's funny. I was thinking about it.

00:00:25.36
Mike
They said something inappropriate on the air and they got fired.

00:00:29.37
Bill
that's That's a great story. as I should do that. I'll make up an AI meme. It's just what they were fucking canceled or some stupid shit.

00:00:35.76
Mike
Right.

00:00:36.57
Bill
But, you know, the the one thing I was kind of thinking about going in, I'm like, how you know, I'm going to ask about it. I'm like, I don't know. The AI thing made me laugh because I told AI exactly what what to do.

00:00:42.72
Mike
Yeah, that was funny.

00:00:45.20
Bill
And it put that. Did you see him put your fucking beard on there?

00:00:48.65
Mike
Yep.

00:00:50.48
Bill
and oh my That's fucking awesome. but um

00:00:54.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:54.49
Bill
But I posted a couple of things with it. It's like yeah nobody knocked down our our email doors or our message doors or DM doors and said, we fucking love that.

00:00:59.79
Mike
Right.

00:01:02.62
Bill
Keep that thing around. So maybe that was, you know, that that was our attempt, boys and girls, if you know what it is.

00:01:03.74
Mike
Right.

00:01:07.87
Bill
we Maybe that was our jump the shark moment brought in, you know, dave danger moose in the cheese and it just didn't ah didn't work out.

00:01:10.60
Mike
yeah Right.

00:01:14.92
Bill
So.

00:01:17.55
Bill
I don't know. I get so i got a laugh out of the AI stuff, and I think the the whole concept was funny. So, yeah, you know, who knows? Maybe things slow down a little bit at some point. We reserve the right bring them back at any time.

00:01:27.28
Mike
Yes. We've already copyrighted it. So, you know, yeah, exactly.

00:01:33.49
Bill
Well, you know, and that's that's the fun part is that with ah with anything like that, well, I suppose AI might be a little bit different, but um anything that we do, and I learned this years ago, and I might have brought it up on here at one time, all of this stuff that we do, and I use the word intellectual ah very, very loosely, um but everything that we do is considered our own intellectual property.

00:01:48.93
Mike
Yes.

00:01:53.21
Mike
Right.

00:01:53.86
Bill
So there's an automatic copyright on it.

00:01:55.75
Mike
yeah

00:01:55.86
Bill
um So, I mean, if anyone used any of our stuff, I mean, not like somebody couldn't use the name Sober Not Mature. at this point, if anyone wants to try to use it and promote it, everything is going to point to us. So feel fucking free.

00:02:05.81
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right.

00:02:07.60
Bill
We've had a market on this and a quarter on this sober, not mature shit for fucking three and a half years.

00:02:11.72
Mike
Yep.

00:02:12.08
Bill
And still, i it baffles the living fuck out of me that nobody ever thought of.

00:02:14.40
Mike
Huh?

00:02:17.37
Mike
ah

00:02:18.08
Bill
that the the The name sober, not mature is in nothing else. Somebody will say, do you become more mature when you're sober? You'll see that in an article, but not in the phrase.

00:02:24.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

00:02:28.28
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, how the fuck could we, i don't know. It just, every once in a while, the sun shines on a dog's ass every once in a while.

00:02:35.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:35.10
Bill
And it shined on, on these dogs' asses at that timeframe.

00:02:38.85
Mike
Woof.

00:02:39.10
Bill
But yeah, exactly. But so anyhow, I mean, I suppose the AI stuff, but I don't know. I, I don't think anyone, and nobody can steal our shit anyhow, if they want to, I don't know. I, I suppose we may know an attorney here or there. We, we, we know an attorney in Cleveland and I'm sure he knows of somebody.

00:02:49.75
Mike
Yeah. we Yeah. Right.

00:02:51.79
Bill
Yeah.

00:02:52.84
Mike
Exactly. We'll lawyer up on you motherfuckers.

00:02:56.58
Bill
Yeah, we we do have. We do have connections in the in the legal area. So, yeah, fucking try it. Unless you want to promote us. You can promote us all you want, but don't try to steal from us motherfuckers.

00:03:03.77
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:03:07.00
Mike
who

00:03:08.05
Bill
Okay, so um before we before we really get into things, I have three items of news and announcements. You ready?

00:03:15.08
Mike
I guess.

00:03:16.84
Bill
First of all, our buddy Tony, 13 years sober as of Tuesday,

00:03:19.33
Mike
yes. Yup. ye

00:03:21.40
Bill
And for anyone who, and you should go back and listen to his episode because it was good. I looked it up actually.

00:03:25.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:26.84
Bill
um Episode 49, that fucking long ago.

00:03:28.79
Mike
Wow.

00:03:29.52
Bill
I know when I looked it up, I'm like, really?

00:03:29.73
Mike
Cool. Mm-hmm.

00:03:32.14
Bill
um But his episode is still, it still runs in our in our top 10 of the most played.

00:03:37.00
Mike
cool

00:03:37.70
Bill
Good friend of ours, obviously. But the main thing is, Mike, remind everyone what Tony's plan was when he first tried to get sober.

00:03:43.82
Mike
Right.

00:03:44.88
Bill
Right. ah

00:03:46.70
Mike
Which is fantastic. Right.

00:03:48.14
Bill
Right.

00:03:48.44
Mike
Well, so you guys know his wife, Angel, who was on the show and she got an episode too. um Anyway, she, they were running buddies, running hard. And she went, you know, she said, I can't do it anymore as most of us do.

00:04:03.23
Mike
And she went and locked herself up and got, you know, whatever. ah So she was going and starting to do the thing. And they had been around before and whatever. And, you know, he was resentful as fuck.

00:04:16.28
Mike
And ah he was like, okay, fine. You know, he, whatever, went through his stuff. And then he was like, all right. She was clearly serious about it. And he's like, all right, you're serious about this. I'll i'll show you.

00:04:29.82
Mike
I'm going to go in there and I'm going to work this program to the best of my ability to prove you motherfuckers wrong and get my wife back, right?

00:04:40.94
Mike
Get his running buddy back. And he went in and he started working the program to the best of his ability. And 13 years later, he is sober, happy, joyous, and free. Right.

00:04:53.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:53.53
Bill
it's It's the best fucking story. we We've heard some good stories out there, but um the funny part is is that literally um I did not know about that until within the first six months we were doing this.

00:04:57.70
Mike
he

00:05:03.92
Bill
You brought it up um on here. And I'm like, seriously?

00:05:06.74
Mike
right

00:05:07.37
Bill
And then they were like, we got to get Tony on. We got to have him...

00:05:09.05
Mike
yeah

00:05:09.83
Bill
And then, uh, so we got him on and made him tell the story too. But, uh, but yeah, I mean the, um, one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my, in my entire sober life.

00:05:12.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:17.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:18.70
Bill
Yeah. Motherfuckers. I got to show you, I'm going to do, I'm going to follow all the directions and on this, on this box of cake,

00:05:21.02
Mike
Uh-huh. Yep.

00:05:25.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:25.86
Bill
And I'll bet it's it won't taste good and it's going to look like hell.

00:05:28.22
Mike
Yep.

00:05:29.13
Bill
And 13 years later, he's got a beautiful cake.

00:05:29.22
Mike
Yep. Yes, he does. Yeah. Yeah.

00:05:33.35
Bill
Yeah, he's got a good life, good good wife still.

00:05:35.19
Mike
yeah

00:05:35.63
Bill
what did they just They just celebrated, what, 20-some fucking years together?

00:05:38.46
Mike
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

00:05:39.27
Bill
26, 25?

00:05:39.64
Mike
i so Something like, yeah. Long time.

00:05:43.23
Bill
Yeah, they've been together, I mean, for fucking every shit. A buddy of mine from high school that was a really good friend of mine. And i didn't I don't know if he met his wife in college, but um there he just posted on Facebook today, it's their wedding anniversary, 33 years they've been married.

00:05:55.84
Mike
Wow. Mm-hmm.

00:05:56.56
Bill
I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ. Now, if if Pam and I would have stayed together, that's my daughter's mom, we got married in August of 88.

00:05:58.92
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:06:05.78
Bill
So what the fuck?

00:06:05.80
Mike
um

00:06:06.14
Bill
I mean, well, Kimmy is, well, it's Kimmy 37. We would have been married like fucking 38 years now

00:06:11.38
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

00:06:13.60
Bill
Jesus Christ.

00:06:13.72
Mike
Uh-huh. Yes. Oh. Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:06:15.17
Bill
Yeah, would have. Would have.

00:06:16.15
Mike
yeah right

00:06:18.23
Bill
I wouldn't have the second marriage, wouldn't have my son, and all the playful things I've done without my...

00:06:20.47
Mike
hu

00:06:22.56
Bill
Okay, anyhow, anyhow, back to back to this. Speaking of my second ex-wife, today is her birthday, so happy birthday.

00:06:27.05
Mike
yes

00:06:29.45
Mike
oh

00:06:30.66
Bill
Happy birthday to Dawn. So back back to Tony.

00:06:31.99
Mike
yep

00:06:33.58
Bill
Congratulations. Please listen to his episode, episode number 49. I'm not going to tell you that my wife is, or ex-wife is four years younger than me, so I won't tell you how old she is. You figure it out. We talk about how old we are all the time.

00:06:43.17
Mike
Absolutely. Ah, right. Yes, you

00:06:44.56
Bill
But yeah, happy birthday. Happy birthday to her.

00:06:46.94
Mike
absolutely

00:06:47.11
Bill
and And lastly, um was given the green light by Kimmy because she let it go on Facebook.

00:06:53.03
Mike
ah right

00:06:54.06
Bill
I... i Not that I did anything for this, yeah but I get the opportunity to have another grandchild come into my life and in March.

00:06:57.83
Mike
you

00:07:02.70
Mike
yes you do

00:07:04.25
Bill
So, um yeah, my ah daughter and son-in-law are having another baby. We found out um back ah a little over a month or so ago, a couple of months.

00:07:12.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:12.29
Bill
Well, yeah, a little over a month ago.

00:07:13.62
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:14.05
Bill
Um, I found out to begin with when they were down here for Lollapalooza and the the cool part, and I got to tell the stories, I think it was, it was a lot of fun.

00:07:18.99
Mike
Right.

00:07:22.28
Bill
So, I mean, you know how little kids are. If anyone out there is you're around little kids, little kids. And I, for whatever reason, I've always done this. Um, if they're wearing a shirt with anything on it, usually they're proud of it. You know, sometimes as they get to, I mean, my, my grandson is, you know, three and a half coming up on four years old.

00:07:32.27
Mike
Right.

00:07:36.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:36.97
Bill
Um, you know, at, at that age, it's just, Hey, look what's on my shirt type of thing.

00:07:40.24
Mike
Right.

00:07:40.65
Bill
Which he didn't do that.

00:07:40.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:41.85
Bill
But I mean, I always look at what his shirt is. And I guess I never realized I did it. um But Kimmy and Brian, my daughter and stepson or son-in-law knew that I that I would do that.

00:07:51.24
Mike
Right.

00:07:52.80
Bill
So they my grandson was wearing a shirt that said Big Brother Under Construction.

00:07:53.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:58.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:59.04
Bill
So so he gets out of the out of the car I'm like, what's on your shirt? And I said, you know, pull it down so I can see. And he does. um And I'm reading it. And my daughter is standing like right next to him. And I mean, my mouth is just kind of wide open.

00:08:08.90
Mike
Right.

00:08:10.37
Bill
I'm like, really? Because the the whole point that the short story is, is they they needed some some medical assistance to to get pregnant the first time, not that to get into all their business.

00:08:12.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:18.75
Mike
right

00:08:19.71
Bill
But um they tried and this happened naturally, which they never thought that it would. um So, yeah, another another boy.

00:08:23.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:26.33
Bill
So it's going to be another grandson that's coming in.

00:08:26.66
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

00:08:29.49
Bill
And I think she's going to be induced. Last week of February, I think her due date is like March 3rd or something like that. Ollie's birthday is March 15th. And I'm like, boy, you guys, you fucking timed that shit right to you.

00:08:39.25
Mike
right

00:08:41.95
Mike
e

00:08:42.52
Bill
yeah But yeah, so I mean, again, i the only thing that I did was be a decent human being. So I get the i get the pleasure of being around for another one of these little fucking rugrats running around.

00:08:51.13
Mike
right

00:08:52.81
Bill
So yeah.

00:08:54.01
Mike
Very cool. So congratulations to them. Congratulations to you. Congratulations to everybody.

00:09:00.18
Bill
All the congratulations is on all the other sides of the table today.

00:09:02.99
Mike
That's ah exactly.

00:09:03.42
Bill
So, so yeah, those were my news and announcements. I got other shit, obviously, little bits and pieces, but i wanted to i wanted to get that shit out of the way to begin with. Not that shit. That's that's a wrong way to put it.

00:09:13.29
Mike
Right.

00:09:13.52
Bill
Those items, those wonderful life items out of the way.

00:09:14.64
Mike
Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Celebrations. Celebrations.

00:09:20.10
Bill
Yes. Yeah. And you know what? I just I don't even I don't even know. I mean, and I'm going I'm going tomorrow to a baby shower. My my stepson um and his girlfriend um are having a baby, you know, so there she's due in December.

00:09:32.93
Bill
So um not tomorrow. I'm sorry. On Sunday, I'm going. But I mean, the fucking babies and celebrations. And well, I mean, God, you got engaged.

00:09:40.78
Mike
Right.

00:09:42.56
Bill
I mean, got all this shit. I'm like, I don't.

00:09:43.75
Mike
Yeah.

00:09:45.05
Bill
I have nothing else to offer.

00:09:46.52
Mike
oh

00:09:46.52
Bill
Okay. Nothing. um I'm kind of riding on coattails of people right now.

00:09:50.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:09:50.36
Bill
I don't have the ability to provide children anymore. That was taken, taken away by choice. yeah

00:09:55.20
Mike
All you fuckers brag about that thing, man.

00:09:58.30
Bill
I, I, you know what? It's been perfectly fine. It's been, it's been lovely for the, for the last 22 years or whatever. It's been no issue whatsoever. Cause I did not, I didn't, I didn't want any more kids.

00:10:08.40
Bill
We were, I mean, I never thought Dawn and I were going to get divorced, but um we decided no more kids and I did it cause it was easy.

00:10:08.77
Mike
Right?

00:10:13.60
Bill
And you know, I've been, been able to, you know, shoot my wad into the wind with no consequences for 22.

00:10:14.59
Mike
ah

00:10:18.69
Mike
Yeah?

00:10:18.87
Bill
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

00:10:20.51
Mike
At least those consequences <unk>foofoo had certain consequence.

00:10:20.91
Bill
You know, exactly exactly don Right. That, that specific consequence. I haven't had to worry about bearing children over the last 22 years, but, um, but yeah, so I can't, I can't provide children for the, for the podcast, you know, no more.

00:10:33.24
Mike
Right. Right.

00:10:38.53
Bill
I can't do that. And, um, right.

00:10:39.46
Mike
Yeah, well, I just won't.

00:10:42.21
Bill
Right. But, uh, I mean, I, ah I don't plan on getting engaged anytime soon. So I don't know where we're going to have to rely on other people for these. Maybe these are our jump to shark moments, but I, I, I've got nothing more.

00:10:49.25
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:51.35
Bill
I can't give any more. Can't.

00:10:52.70
Mike
Right.

00:10:56.32
Bill
can give myself, myself and my voice and my wonderful sense of humor.

00:10:57.93
Mike
ah Exactly.

00:11:00.59
Bill
but

00:11:00.62
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:11:02.63
Bill
All right. Speaking of ah what whatever we have to give, how about how about somebody else's kind words and nice words?

00:11:04.44
Mike
ahha

00:11:08.85
Mike
All right. Well, um yes, we I have some words.

00:11:10.31
Bill
Okay.

00:11:13.71
Mike
I've got a couple of words, actually.

00:11:13.85
Bill
Really?

00:11:18.10
Mike
um I've got two readings. because ah

00:11:20.99
Bill
Really?

00:11:21.67
Mike
Yeah, right. Okay, so... Ah, clearly we don't get political on this show, um but there's some fucked up shit going on in this world.

00:11:27.71
Bill
Right.

00:11:31.69
Mike
And what is the motto of this show? Right. I mean, sort of unofficial, but kind of official is, you know, making our little corner of the world a better place.

00:11:36.87
Bill
Right.

00:11:40.93
Mike
So.

00:11:41.41
Bill
Right.

00:11:42.33
Mike
so ah found a couple of readings actually they were both uh within this slept this last week and I was like hmm read one of them and went hmm then read the other one went hmm so ah how appropriate um imagine that so um yeah I'm gonna read them I'm you know again

00:11:57.71
Bill
right

00:12:03.60
Mike
some fucked up shit going on in this world. And, um, guess what kids there's solutions to our fucked up problems. We had some real fucked up problems a long time ago, 15 years ago, 16 years ago.

00:12:15.97
Mike
Um, and we found solutions to them. And, uh, guess what within that solution, there's solutions to other problems as well. So I'm just going to share this stuff with you. And, uh, you know, that's all i'm going to say about that.

00:12:29.04
Mike
All right. The right. right And clearly, if you're listening to this this week, you probably have figured out what the hell I'm talking about without me talking about it.

00:12:40.01
Mike
So good.

00:12:40.38
Bill
Right.

00:12:41.43
Mike
um But anyway, so the first one is from the 24-hour book. I'm not going to read all of it. I'm going to read the first part of it, the thought of the day, um because the rest of it gets, you know, all 24-hour book-y and doesn't really pertain to anything.

00:12:59.40
Mike
So um this is September 6th, AA Thought for the Day. Another of the mottos of AA is live and let live.

00:13:10.82
Mike
This, of course, means tolerance of people who think differently than we do, whether they are in AA or outside of AA. We cannot afford the luxury of being intolerant or critical of other people, period.

00:13:28.67
Mike
We do not try to impose our wills on those who differ from us, period. We are not holier than thou, quote unquote.

00:13:39.52
Mike
We do not have all the answers. We are not better than other good people. I'm going read that one again. We are not better than other good people.

00:13:51.66
Mike
We live the best way we can and we allow others to do likewise. Am I willing to live and let live? So that's from the 24 hour book.

00:14:02.92
Mike
Like I said, the meditation and the prayer for the day go way the hell off topic into 24 hour of the day stuff. So I'm going to.

00:14:10.65
Bill
Yeah, when you said that, I'm like, yeah, I know what you mean. And and you know what? I literally keyed in on the on this one too when when I read it. So no i know I know what you mean.

00:14:20.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:21.34
Bill
I know what you mean. So so that was the that was a 24-hour book. I've noted. I'm not going to speak on it at this moment. I'm going to let the next reading get get out of the way.

00:14:26.97
Mike
Yep.

00:14:30.00
Mike
Right. This one is from Keep It Simple. This was um today. Yeah. September 12th. Right. Yeah. Today. All right.

00:14:40.84
Mike
ah More solutions. When angry, count to 10 before you speak. If very angry, 100. ah hundred Some guy named Thomas Jefferson said that.

00:14:52.60
Mike
Google him. Sometimes we just want to yell. Maybe a family member or friend messed up and we want to, quote unquote, set them straight.

00:15:04.36
Mike
Start counting. Maybe we got chewed out at work and we want to, quote unquote, get even. Start counting. We can get drunk on anger.

00:15:17.34
Mike
We may feel powerful when we, quote unquote, set someone straight. But like any other high, an anger high lasts only a short time and can hurt others.

00:15:30.76
Mike
We must control our anger. This is why we count. Cool down. Think out what you need or want to say. Use words that you'll not be ashamed of later.

00:15:45.53
Mike
Learning how to respect others when you're angry is a sign of recovery. Prayer for the day. Higher power. Teach me to respect others when I'm angry.

00:15:58.93
Mike
Action for the day. Today, when I feel angry, I'll count. I'll work at not controlling others with my anger.

00:16:09.91
Bill
Yeah, you know what? um and i When I read that one today, I almost posted that one and I didn't um actually for for a reason. and i'm i'm glad you First of all, and i mean I'm glad you talked about that without talking about that because i i mean it's on it's on everyone's mind and we don't have to we don't have to name the the thing.

00:16:22.67
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:16:26.90
Bill
We don't have to name but let put a name on the thing.

00:16:28.45
Mike
to

00:16:29.47
Bill
you know i Again, if anyone looks back at at history, even if this is six months or a year down the road, you can figure out what's the what.

00:16:29.67
Mike
Right.

00:16:33.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:35.59
Bill
could figure out what's the what you know

00:16:37.04
Mike
Right.

00:16:37.48
Bill
um and Yesterday, for instance, i don't know if you noticed it. Maybe nobody did, but I posted a reading. I posted stuff about the podcast and I posted sobriety shit. That's all I did.

00:16:48.37
Bill
And it was purposeful because, you know, there was um obviously, you know, 24 years ago, there was the thing that happened and then, you know, the other things that are going on this week.

00:16:50.12
Mike
Right.

00:16:56.62
Mike
Right.

00:16:57.23
Bill
And I'm like, I, the, the only thing I wanted to do was, um, I keep thinking, I thought about, you know, the whole being part of the solution rather than the problem. And I'm like, if, if all these people are dealing with some shit, everyone's got stuff in their mind about all this different stuff, you know?

00:17:12.16
Bill
Um, okay. I'm, I'm just going to say this, let's throw a little bit of our podcast is, is us. It's what we do. That, that is what it is.

00:17:18.20
Mike
Right.

00:17:19.01
Bill
But then, um, the other stuff I'm like, I can, I got memes I could post on any fucking day.

00:17:24.34
Mike
Right.

00:17:24.52
Bill
I'm going to, I'm going to go back to what I did. I went back to what ah my roots are and what your roots are, our roots, hopefully what people might be looking for.

00:17:29.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:32.52
Bill
Like you said, you know what? And I thought about that too. I did. I posted, i think yesterday, one of the things for our, our podcast post that I did, I brought up the making our quarter of the world a better place.

00:17:43.36
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:17:43.99
Bill
And i do that every once in a while. Cause I like it, but I did, I think I, I think I did it specifically yesterday

00:17:46.20
Mike
Right.

00:17:48.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:49.39
Bill
And it's funny that you brought that up because that's exactly what I thought about. you know

00:17:53.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:53.53
Bill
I'm like in in what we were talking about last week, you know we we were talking about, or whatever it was, making a list of all the shit in the world and let's focus on this, you know focus on on the good stuff.

00:18:01.11
Mike
Right.

00:18:02.55
Bill
Why would we want to do that? you know

00:18:04.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:04.63
Bill
i i mean, again, I had a lot of thoughts on it, but the thing of it is, is I was i did not want to get involved in the bullshit that's out there in the world.

00:18:11.33
Mike
Absolutely.

00:18:11.48
Bill
um i didn't want to be I didn't want to be part of the... I just didn't want to be part of the problem. So I'm like, easiest way for me to not be part of the problem um as as a podcast or as our, I hate to say our brand, but it is what it is, you know, um you know is to just stick to our basics.

00:18:31.04
Bill
And I did that i did that on purpose.

00:18:31.36
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:18:33.49
Bill
um You know, today I fucked around a little bit again, but um you know the ah yeah yesterday it just, it was ah there was a lot of weight out there and I didn't want to add to it, you know?

00:18:36.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:39.83
Mike
yeah Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Lighting shit up, man.

00:18:44.32
Bill
Right.

00:18:44.38
Mike
Right.

00:18:44.39
Bill
Right.

00:18:44.70
Mike
You know, I mean, I, I, the only thing I did, I posted a, I know you saw it cause you liked it. Um, like a Charles Bukowski quote, uh, right.

00:18:52.99
Bill
Right.

00:18:53.88
Mike
Who is notorious alcoholic. Well, not an alcoholic cause he never went to a meeting. He was fucking drunk. Um, Oh, tu yeah, well he's dead clearly, but,

00:18:59.60
Bill
He's possibly untreated.

00:19:05.71
Bill
Right. no i No, I said he was possibly.

00:19:06.23
Mike
um Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:08.56
Bill
Yeah.

00:19:09.46
Mike
um Right. But also one of my absolute favorite writers, you know.

00:19:13.07
Bill
Right. Right.

00:19:13.93
Mike
So, yeah, you know, exactly. You know, I'm not didn't I did ah still not jumping into the nonsense because I never do.

00:19:22.10
Bill
No. Right.

00:19:23.30
Mike
um

00:19:23.51
Bill
Hmm.

00:19:23.93
Mike
I know better. Uh, thanks to this program. Uh, again, you know, my old, the old me that, that self that I'm supposed to be true to, would have jumped in with both feet because, you know, love that shit.

00:19:40.15
Mike
Um, you know, I've talked about when, when the riots were going on, right. When, you know, all the unrest and, you know few years ago in the cities, right. You know, ah that Saturday, they were fucking throwing bricks and shit downtown, which is literally, you know, a few miles away from my house. I was in my front yard planting flowers, you know, for the neighbors to look at.

00:19:59.91
Mike
Yeah, you know, the old me would have been down there throwing bricks, not for any political or social reason, just because I like to fucking throw bricks.

00:20:00.77
Bill
if

00:20:08.61
Mike
Um...

00:20:11.12
Bill
What else are you go to do on a random Saturday? I'm going to throw some fucking bricks.

00:20:12.89
Mike
Yeah, exactly. yeah let's throw some bricks, man.

00:20:14.91
Bill
yeah

00:20:15.86
Mike
Apparently that's a thing to do that Saturday. ah But no, apparently, yeah, right. But what thanks to this program, what I was doing was putting flowers in my front yard for my neighbors to look at.

00:20:28.19
Bill
Right.

00:20:28.20
Mike
um because that's what I'm fucking supposed to do these days. And that's what I continue to do. And that's why I did these readings today, because I'm going to, you know, hey, man, yes, there's problems. Guess what? There's solutions.

00:20:42.11
Mike
And they're there.

00:20:42.15
Bill
Right. Right.

00:20:43.15
Mike
Yeah. and And we're supposed to live better than that today. So that's what I'm trying to do.

00:20:48.79
Bill
right Yeah. And I, I mean, I, I like, um obviously I like both of those readings, even on, even on a good day yeah um because they're, they're a reminder that there's some, you know, yeah we talk about good days versus bad days, but you know, there's, there's some days that have some really fucking, I mean, not even just bad moments are fucking horrible.

00:20:57.15
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:21:04.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:11.04
Bill
You know, they're, they're beyond comprehension moments and

00:21:11.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:14.17
Bill
um And, you know, we we get to have these these reminders. and And once again, you know, 15 years of ah practice, I guess, and we want to put it that way, of, you know, trying to, again, ah we can't necessarily see the bright spot in these bad events that happen, but um we don't have to be part of the problem.

00:21:22.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:21:32.32
Bill
You know, we can we could try to be part of the solution these days.

00:21:32.67
Mike
Right.

00:21:34.96
Bill
And um i don't I don't know what that means on on a daily basis, but I know what it means to be part of the problem.

00:21:35.45
Mike
z

00:21:40.94
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:41.37
Bill
you know And as long as long as I know what not to do, I get a pretty goddamn good chance of of even accidentally doing what I'm supposed to do.

00:21:45.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:21:47.79
Mike
yeah hear Thank you.

00:21:51.03
Bill
I mean, really, it's just i I've been given 12 things, suggestions to follow.

00:21:52.40
Mike
yeah

00:21:57.72
Bill
I've been given a book, so have you.

00:21:59.68
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:21:59.68
Bill
um I've gone to some some get-togethers you know where people talk about these things and you know give us this guidance.

00:22:02.18
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:22:05.22
Bill
But you know worst worst case scenario, ah like you always say, You know, your thoughts are still all kinds of fucked up. So if nothing else, that's my baseline.

00:22:11.93
Mike
Yep.

00:22:14.33
Bill
I know what I do know what not to do.

00:22:16.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:16.75
Bill
You know, and I know I don't drink today. i don't try to treat people wrong.

00:22:19.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:20.77
Bill
I try to make my my little corner of the world little bit better if I can, or at least not shit all over it.

00:22:21.24
Mike
Right.

00:22:24.11
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yes.

00:22:28.91
Bill
You know, maybe making our little corner of the world today is just not not throwing feces all over the place, you know.

00:22:34.18
Mike
Yeah, adding to the pile of shit that's already there. Mm-hmm.

00:22:37.82
Bill
and There's already pile of shit there. i might as well. No, you don't have do

00:22:41.58
Mike
No.

00:22:43.33
Bill
yeah you don't have to do that

00:22:44.97
Mike
No, you do not. Absolutely not. yeah you know You can go into your house and try to find some flower seeds and throw those on the pile of shit.

00:22:52.48
Bill
yeah

00:22:53.76
Mike
See what happens.

00:22:55.10
Bill
yeah Right. yeah And you know what? it The 24-hour book, some of the the bullet points, I guess, if you want to put it, that I wrote down. um Obviously, Live and Let Live. Luxury.

00:23:05.65
Mike
oof

00:23:06.23
Bill
What the fuck? Luxury of being... Oh, like we don't have the luxury of being intolerant, I think, was the... I can't read my handwriting.

00:23:12.66
Mike
Right.

00:23:13.11
Bill
um

00:23:13.30
Mike
i I'm going to pull it back up because I like that one a lot. We cannot afford the luxury of being intolerant or critical of other people.

00:23:16.59
Bill
Yeah.

00:23:22.63
Bill
There you go. Yeah. And um I really I like that. I just got that piece down before I wrote, had wrote down. he had to, but not holier than thou and not better than any other.

00:23:29.64
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:23:32.29
Bill
And I like that you you repeated this one, not better than any other good people.

00:23:34.65
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:23:36.97
Bill
You know, in that that is it's so I mean, we're not we're not better than than any other good people.

00:23:38.73
Mike
Yeah.

00:23:41.68
Bill
it's good people out there and we're not.

00:23:42.03
Mike
Good people. Right.

00:23:42.88
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Good people.

00:23:43.72
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, it's qualifier. Yeah, absolutely. I'm, you know, I'm a little bit better than shitty people today, you know, thankfully. Right.

00:23:52.91
Bill
yeah

00:23:53.51
Mike
Yeah. And that's fine. You know, it doesn't, yeah, doesn't make me wonderful. It just, I, it's just a fact. I'm a little bit better than shitty people today. Right. Thanks to this program.

00:24:03.61
Bill
yeah

00:24:06.26
Bill
Right.

00:24:06.45
Mike
But other good people, other non-shitty people, I'm absolutely not better than I'm not worse than either. And so, yeah, so again, one of the wonderful gifts of this program, I'm not better and I'm not worse.

00:24:17.89
Mike
I'm just the same, which is kind of a cool thing.

00:24:19.28
Bill
Right. Well, and you know, worst case scenario that the safest place for us to go with is not better than type of thing is we can say that, you know, we're, we know for a fucking fact, we are better than the people that we were 16, 16 years ago that we can say, and nobody can say, no, you're not.

00:24:32.77
Mike
Yes, exactly. Mm-hmm.

00:24:37.80
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:24:38.21
Bill
You, you can't take that. Oh, well, yes, you can. Yes, you can.

00:24:41.31
Mike
yeah Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:24:43.13
Bill
So, so there people, that's my, that's my other baseline.

00:24:45.13
Mike
Yep. Yep.

00:24:47.37
Bill
um But in the keep it simple part of, you know, angry and counting to 10. I mean, it's, I don't know that I ever necessarily count to 10 or a hundred. I take a deep breath, you know, and take a minute, you know, and yeah, well, it's,

00:24:55.53
Mike
yeah take Yeah. Take a beat. Yeah, something. Yeah, don't just let fly.

00:25:01.16
Bill
And that's, and that was my, well, we've talked about this before, both you and I, you know, just kind of like, you know, shoot now and and ask questions later, you know, with our, shoot our words out now and just like, well, oh, I shouldn't have said that.

00:25:04.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:25:08.14
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:12.45
Bill
Well, fuck you then.

00:25:12.78
Mike
Right.

00:25:13.17
Bill
Sorry.

00:25:13.79
Mike
oh Right. But yeah, you can't put that, uh, that toothpaste back in the tube, but you know, can't unring that bell.

00:25:19.19
Bill
Right. Right.

00:25:20.99
Mike
It's been rung. Yeah. And that that again, and, you know, being lazy and all that, I don't want to do a 10 steps. God damn it. so you you So I'm going to take that couple of seconds and go, wait a minute.

00:25:29.97
Bill
right

00:25:35.60
Mike
What do I really want to do here? And then, know, do it in the kindest way possible. I'll still point out you're being an asshole.

00:25:43.12
Bill
Right.

00:25:45.16
Mike
But yeah, I'll do it kindly and with love.

00:25:46.34
Bill
it with a smile on your face.

00:25:52.75
Bill
Well, and you know, the the thing of it is, we've talked about this too, is that, you know, i mean, taking a deep breath, thinking about what you're saying, or sometimes just, you know, not saying anything, you know, just um maybe not agreeing with the individual, but ah change the subject.

00:26:01.36
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:26:04.14
Mike
Right.

00:26:05.15
Bill
I mean, I've been in situations like that where, you know, a conversation is getting fucking weird. um And this has happened since I've been sober, not with anyone of any substance, I don't think around around us, but, um you know, that you change the subject.

00:26:09.94
Mike
hmm.

00:26:13.97
Mike
Right. Right.

00:26:17.99
Bill
you know, or or whatever the case is. So i don't get involved in in the conversation or I change the conversation.

00:26:24.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:26:24.54
Bill
And, you know, seriously, a technology is a fucking pain in the ass at the times. But, you know, thank goodness for email. Thank goodness for text messages. Thank goodness that people can't see.

00:26:34.92
Bill
I've got my phone. First of all, it's an Android. I think you might be able to see it on some programs. Little, little typing bubbles. um But I mean, I've got mine turned off. Anyhow, I've done that for years. So nobody sees any typing bubbles. Nobody sees what I'm thinking. Yeah.

00:26:49.13
Bill
You know, and I can take my time and answer a text message when you look at it like, oh, this is fucked up.

00:26:52.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:54.29
Bill
You blah, blah, blah, this, this, this. I have opinions. OK, I completely understand is the text message that goes out rather than all the the tirade that I had going on in my head, because that goes back to i just want to yell sometimes.

00:27:03.94
Mike
Yep.

00:27:08.01
Mike
Yep.

00:27:09.46
Bill
And you know what is, is healed quote unquote, as we are, um or in the healing process, whatever the fuck you want to say.

00:27:12.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:27:17.57
Bill
I said that jokingly healed, but is, is, is far along this process as if we, we've been and And thankfully the things that we've learned, uh, there's still, you know, there's these things inside of us, these natural instincts that, you know, I want to yell at something or yell at somebody or, you know, feel like I want to break some shit.

00:27:18.79
Mike
Yes, I know.

00:27:28.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:31.78
Mike
Yep.

00:27:33.38
Bill
I mean, I haven't broken some shit in a long time. Um, you know, but, uh, but yeah, it's just, it is, don't know. Is that a natural instinct? I don't fucking know, you know,

00:27:41.41
Mike
right yeah well yeah ah i'm sure it is you know some sort of survival hunting you know lashing out whatever yeah whatever but you know again hopefully we're above that um

00:27:44.89
Bill
yeah

00:27:50.04
Bill
right.

00:27:53.15
Mike
And, yeah, yeah, and like the the yeah reading in Keep It Simple said, you know, yeah, it's it's it could be a drug. It could be a high.

00:28:01.63
Bill
Right.

00:28:01.64
Mike
And like any other high, it's short-lived, and it's probably going to do some damage. So, you know, yeah, I know I can get fucked up and do the same thing. Or I could be completely sober and and cause damage, too.

00:28:14.73
Mike
Yeah, so, and again, that's... that's That's just being dry. And I don't want to be dry. I want to be sober. So, yeah.

00:28:22.74
Bill
Right.

00:28:23.73
Mike
you know Yes, it is a high. Getting angry, lashing out. Yes, I'm going to fucking feel good if I tell you you're a piece of shit. and you're You're wrong and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's going to feel good. And then what?

00:28:35.60
Mike
Same as any same as any other substance.

00:28:36.51
Bill
Yeah.

00:28:38.12
Mike
And then what? Right. Yeah, I'm going to feel good for 20 minutes. Okay. And then what? Okay.

00:28:44.74
Bill
yeah Well, that's, yeah, one of the things I wrote down in there was was in the keep it simple thing, drunk on anger.

00:28:50.53
Mike
yeah

00:28:51.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:28:51.93
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. It is a high, ah you know, it fires, fires shit in your brain, man.

00:28:54.54
Bill
Yeah, no doubt.

00:28:57.82
Mike
Um, and okay. And then what, you know, again, um, the so ah like the big book says, man, alcohol is just a symptom, which means all the other substances are just a symptom and anger is just a symptom.

00:29:01.28
Bill
Right, right.

00:29:13.36
Mike
Um, you know, what's the solution, man? You know, I don't, yeah again, for you me feeling good. oh It's not that goddamn important today, thankfully.

00:29:25.19
Bill
right

00:29:27.64
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? The the thing of it is, is that these days, especially, I mean, even if I, if I accidentally break something, drop something, spill something, whatever the case is. And, you know, even that immediate right after you're like, what the fuck, man? All I need to do is usually it doesn't just happen.

00:29:44.03
Bill
Yes, it happens, you know, by accident, but there's a reason I'm usually not paying attention, doing something too quickly, whatever the case may be.

00:29:49.39
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:29:51.28
Bill
And it happens. And then I'm like, you dumb motherfucker. You know, it is, it's ah this immediate regret. And, and looking back, what, it was unnecessary.

00:30:00.82
Mike
Yes.

00:30:00.93
Bill
It was fucking unnecessary.

00:30:02.03
Mike
Right.

00:30:02.06
Bill
And I wasn't, it's not even doing anything bad. It's just, you know, you have this consequence, this accident that happened um based on your own, you know, stupidity.

00:30:07.10
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:10.83
Mike
Yes. Well, yeah. but I mean, we've had that discussion on here.

00:30:12.38
Bill
Right.

00:30:13.91
Mike
There are no accidents. There's no fucking random.

00:30:15.96
Bill
Right.

00:30:16.89
Mike
There's no no such thing as a car accident. There's no such thing.

00:30:19.46
Bill
Right.

00:30:20.05
Mike
Yeah. There are no accidents. There's choices and consequences. You know, your choice might be, I wasn't paying attention. Okay. Well, Hey, guess what? Should have been probably been paying attention.

00:30:31.76
Mike
Um, man, whatever, you know, I mean, there, there's no such thing as an accident. There just isn't, you know, um, yeah, You weren't aware. You weren't something. There's always a way to avoid something bad.

00:30:45.57
Mike
Always. You know, I mean, right. I mean, a friend dies, but that's, you know, that's, I guess, the purest form of an accident.

00:30:48.23
Bill
right.

00:30:53.99
Mike
You have absolutely nothing to do with that. It happens, but that's life.

00:30:57.03
Bill
right

00:30:57.79
Mike
You know, that's that's not...

00:30:57.85
Bill
right

00:30:59.96
Mike
not comparable. It's apples and oranges, you know, but yes, little, yeah, things, there are no accidents. I am fully responsible for everything good and bad that happens to me.

00:31:10.78
Bill
Right.

00:31:11.32
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:12.29
Bill
Yeah. And that wasn't that long ago that we had that conversation. I agree with you.

00:31:14.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:15.13
Bill
I never thought about it that way, but, um, you know, i mean, it, it wasn't necessarily, uh, know, I set out to do something, but you're right. It's a, it's these choices and consequences that that was another episode that we talked about same concept, but you know, different conversation, but same deal, you know, there's you, you make it, it's an action and there's a consequence, you know, good, bad, or indifferent that you enlightened me on good consequence.

00:31:23.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:29.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:34.09
Mike
Yep.

00:31:35.98
Bill
I'm like, fuck, I never thought about that. There's, there's something good. That is a consequence. It's a good consequence.

00:31:40.92
Mike
Yes, absolutely.

00:31:41.46
Bill
I'm like, Jesus, there's, there's a positive to that word.

00:31:42.14
Mike
Yep.

00:31:45.56
Bill
I just never thought about it.

00:31:45.86
Mike
Yep.

00:31:47.08
Bill
Um, but yeah, I mean, all of that, and it's a, this is going to be kind of, kind of a side note thing, but, um, and I was going to save the article. I'm like, ah, fuck it. I, it's not, not that it wasn't important to bring up, but I'm like, if it, if it pops up into my head, which now it did, when you said there's no accidents, um,

00:32:02.21
Bill
There was a, it you know, I wanted to to begin with, I wanted to talk about this. i came across my head because I'm like, this could have happen to any one of us. Clearly it could have happened to me. i think it could have happened to you also.

00:32:12.86
Bill
um But tragic based on what you just said, you know, there was a choice and there was a ah tragic consequence.

00:32:18.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:18.53
Bill
So this, um you know, Market University, downtown Milwaukee.

00:32:22.08
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:22.62
Bill
Okay. So um not that it mattered, but it's a, it's a very good school and blah, blah, blah, but that, that part doesn't matter, but it's in a shithole area of Milwaukee, um which is weird because it's surrounded by, granted, it's not a very good area in Milwaukee.

00:32:29.96
Mike
Right.

00:32:35.07
Bill
um But these, these two Marquette students, and I think from reading the article, they were in a vehicle in this lady. She tried to beat a stoplight, you know so she ran through the stoplight And then, I mean, crushed it at like whatever.

00:32:48.46
Bill
It's a 25 mile an hour zone. She, I, they, again, they, they could analyze the speed and everything from the vehicles and all the airbags went off and all this different shit, um you know, like 55 miles an hour or something like that.

00:32:53.81
Mike
Right.

00:32:58.54
Mike
Nice.

00:32:58.79
Bill
And she killed these students. Okay. um And, you know, the she got arrested for um intoxicated or homicide by intoxicated use of a motor vehicle.

00:33:08.85
Mike
nice

00:33:09.09
Bill
And, you know, I heard about all this stuff and nobody brought up the blood alcohol level, of course, that the thing of it is, is that doesn't matter. But for whatever reason in my head, um I'm like, i it was a curiosity.

00:33:19.23
Bill
I wasn't really setting out to find it, but I i wanted to find out.

00:33:19.65
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:33:22.44
Bill
Guess just out of morbid curiosity, if you could just throw a number on what her blood alcohol level was.

00:33:29.06
Mike
I mean, probably, you know, we'll see 0.08 is legal. So what? one two

00:33:38.07
Bill
You know what? That is ridiculous how fucking close you are. point one point one three 0.13.

00:33:43.58
Mike
yeah yeah

00:33:44.37
Bill
You know, which, I mean, for for you and I, that's that's like the beginning.

00:33:44.63
Mike
yeah right Yeah.

00:33:47.78
Bill
That was...

00:33:48.09
Mike
It's just yeah waking up in the morning. and

00:33:50.59
Bill
I'm like point point one three. Yeah, I think I had I easily probably had that my in my body in the morning without even taking a drink yet.

00:33:56.33
Mike
Yeah. Right. That's what saying.

00:33:57.73
Bill
um

00:33:57.95
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:58.80
Bill
And then it's just I don't know ah there again, 15 years, how many deaths, how many articles, random people, you know, the over the over the time frame all the places that you and I been in articles of things we've read.

00:34:04.72
Mike
um huh

00:34:09.80
Mike
Right.

00:34:10.32
Bill
hundreds, thousands, who knows?

00:34:12.78
Mike
Right.

00:34:12.79
Bill
um I don't know why that one stuck with me, but it did.

00:34:15.34
Mike
Hmm.

00:34:15.35
Bill
You know what mean? She was 41. Maybe that was it.

00:34:17.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:17.39
Bill
You know, cause that's what I i was 41 when I get sober.

00:34:19.82
Mike
Right.

00:34:19.99
Bill
um I don't know what made a click. Cause then i sitting there trying to analyze. Why does this one, why did this one grab me? You know?

00:34:24.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:25.51
Bill
um But, Either way, I mean, no bad examples, right? I mean, to this to this day, 15 years and in a few months later, um that it made my stomach hurt because I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:34:29.35
Mike
Right.

00:34:35.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:37.99
Bill
I mean, 0.13, really? You know, um I mean, i get it.

00:34:40.90
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:42.53
Bill
100% get it. I'm not taken away from the fact of, Even if she had no alcohol in her system, what she did, I mean, consequence, action, you know, that is what it is.

00:34:47.56
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, right.

00:34:51.19
Bill
um You know, but even the, what considered to be the slightest amount of alcohol, I mean, unfortunately to us, the slightest amount of alcohol.

00:34:56.89
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:34:58.39
Bill
um And that happened. And i'm like, oh my God, you know, but for the grace, I guess is what we, what I keep thinking about.

00:35:02.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:03.82
Bill
And it just, it, I don't even know. I have, I have no followup to what it just, it, it threw me, it hit me.

00:35:10.00
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:10.11
Bill
Um, it didn't like knock me on my knees be like, Oh, it wasn't that, but, um, it, it hit home, I guess is the best way to put it.

00:35:10.19
Mike
Right.

00:35:13.42
Mike
Right.

00:35:17.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:18.47
Bill
You know

00:35:19.61
Mike
Yeah. ah Right. I mean, but I know.

00:35:22.04
Bill
know, I don't expect you to have an answer for it.

00:35:25.08
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:25.11
Bill
I'm just,

00:35:25.46
Mike
i don i Of course I don't have an answer for it.

00:35:29.32
Bill
But it just, it when we were talking about the consequences and the actions, I'm like, okay, there it is. And that's why I said to myself, i'm like, I'm not going to say this fucking article.

00:35:34.22
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:36.57
Bill
If it comes up, it comes up. And um clearly it did.

00:35:38.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:39.34
Bill
But I mean, yeah, I mean, something something like that, which is, again, fucking tragic. I mean, terrible, you know?

00:35:44.46
Mike
yeah Of course. Right. but And I mean, ah you know, clearly that I'm going to say low amount again, but yeah, um you know, you've got a little buzz and it may have contributed to, all I can make it bad judgment, whatever.

00:35:52.40
Bill
Right. Right.

00:35:59.17
Mike
But I mean, I, I see people who are presumably stone cold sober make driving like morons all the time doing stupid things.

00:36:07.04
Bill
Right.

00:36:07.79
Mike
And yeah, you know, so, I mean, I yeah take the alcohol out of it. Yeah. Trying to beat a fucking light. Cause you know, they want to be They want to be wherever the fuck they think they need to be 40 seconds sooner than whatever.

00:36:22.41
Mike
Right. I see it all the time and it's just like drives me insane.

00:36:22.73
Bill
right

00:36:25.94
Mike
It's like, fuck, you know, I'm the one that's big on, you know, I don't want to waste time anymore and all that good stuff. But Jesus Christ, man, 40 seconds sitting in a light. yeah You know, i i'll i'll I'll waste that time. Thank you very much.

00:36:40.72
Bill
Right. And I mean, the same thing with, ah I mean, jumping off a light, you know, and ah my my dad my dad told me that years ago, but when I worked at True Green, we, I don't know, I was there a couple of years before they did it, but they anyone who was, because not everyone could drive because a lot of these guys, surprisingly enough, had lost their licenses either for alcohol or speeding or those sort of things.

00:36:44.72
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

00:36:48.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:57.63
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:00.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:37:02.97
Bill
So I was one of, you know, a number of, a small number of people that actually was was able to drive for the company. um you know So the people who were drivers, they they took us out one time and put us through this test. and I forget what the what the name.

00:37:14.14
Bill
It was a specific name of the driving test or technique or whatever the fuck it was.

00:37:17.87
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:37:18.33
Bill
I don't remember what it was.

00:37:18.58
Mike
Was it Smith System?

00:37:20.50
Bill
It could have been it. It could have very much been it.

00:37:21.40
Mike
Yeah. Probably.

00:37:22.78
Bill
But

00:37:23.03
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:37:23.46
Bill
But the one thing they said was, well, the two things that still stick in my mind, but the things that my dad taught me were, you know, counted count to three before you leave a stoplight.

00:37:28.39
Mike
Right.

00:37:30.76
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:37:32.00
Bill
um And then, like, if you're if you're on a highway, um never don't be in the middle of a pack. Always have an out, you know?

00:37:39.04
Mike
Yep. Oh, yeah.

00:37:39.78
Bill
And and i've I've done that.

00:37:40.45
Mike
That's Smith System. Yeah.

00:37:41.65
Bill
Yeah. OK. So. So, yeah. And I figured, you know, it if I if I started to explain it.

00:37:44.30
Mike
Yep.

00:37:45.33
Bill
But those are two things that I that I've always said I don't like being in packs. I feel claustrophobic driving as much as I do sometimes just as a human being in ah in a grocery store, for instance.

00:37:49.67
Mike
Yep.

00:37:52.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:55.92
Mike
Right.

00:37:56.37
Bill
um But that I'll never forget that was in Milwaukee. It was after I got, after I was sober, i was working at a federated. So I, after I moved back to Germantown, so, you know, within the last 10 years, um, I was going to work and I got off this one, this one highway and a stoplight.

00:38:11.03
Bill
And then the same thing, I gave it the, the three second thing and I went to go in this car, just went fucking flying through.

00:38:16.51
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:38:17.45
Bill
And I mean, I would have got, had I, had I not, had I gone right away out the light, um, you know, what it was good would have been on the driver's side.

00:38:21.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:24.31
Bill
you know, I would have hit right in that traffic.

00:38:24.53
Mike
Sure.

00:38:25.73
Bill
I would have been crushed. I mean, probably, probably killed.

00:38:26.90
Mike
Yeah. Yep.

00:38:29.48
Bill
And I'm like, fuck.

00:38:32.27
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:33.37
Bill
So I'm just like, Jesus Christ.

00:38:34.01
Mike
Right. Yeah. Just because a light changes doesn't mean shit. Yeah, I know.

00:38:37.16
Bill
Right.

00:38:37.69
Mike
You know, it's, it's helpful. It's a suggestion. ah Right. But I mean, I'm the same way. I mean, I, you know, I, yes, I, I wait, I look, I mean, I look both ways, you know, left, right, left, man, um to go through an intersection with a green light.

00:38:47.58
Bill
Right.

00:38:53.59
Mike
If I'm sitting there stopped, I'm looking to see if some morons plowing through, not paying attention, looking at their goddamn phone, know, You know, and they don't notice that the light change going the other way.

00:39:03.94
Mike
It happens all the time.

00:39:04.50
Bill
Right.

00:39:05.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:06.48
Bill
Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, it's just, I don't know. Again, you know, the, these, uh, back to the the choices and, you know, the consequences and stuff like that.

00:39:11.94
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:39:13.28
Bill
And, um, I mean, we can't control all the outcomes, but we can do, we can do those again, those little things like that to hopefully, um, you know, obviously maybe save our ass every once in a while.

00:39:19.10
Mike
Yeah.

00:39:22.47
Bill
Right.

00:39:22.49
Mike
Right, man. Mitigate the risk. Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:26.90
Bill
Mitigate. Whoever thought we'd use the word. We use big words on here. I don't always, but I do like them.

00:39:30.05
Mike
Occasionally.

00:39:31.98
Bill
Mitigate. Let's say it again.

00:39:32.95
Mike
Yes.

00:39:33.50
Bill
Mitigate. The guys from Sober and Avatures is mitigate.

00:39:34.40
Mike
Mitigate the word for today. That's right. Yes. Are we?

00:39:38.41
Bill
yeah

00:39:38.49
Mike
that's right

00:39:39.80
Bill
The guys from Sober and Avatures use big words, too. they they They use the word fuck a lot, but they say big words every once in a while.

00:39:43.99
Mike
he

00:39:45.92
Bill
We're complicated.

00:39:47.01
Mike
yes

00:39:47.39
Bill
yeah

00:39:47.49
Mike
are we

00:39:49.57
Bill
Yeah, no, not even close. That's why I laughed when I said it. We're not even fucking close to being complicated. But but anyhow, so um back to the readings. Anything else i mean from the readings?

00:40:00.37
Bill
i mean i'm I'm glad you read both of them and in the point behind that.

00:40:02.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:03.85
Bill
And I'm... um I'm kind of, um but I don't know it's proud. I am. I'm proud of the fact that the way that you brought up the situation, the way that we were able to have this this outside conversation um without having the conversation.

00:40:10.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:14.74
Mike
Yo.

00:40:16.99
Bill
i um

00:40:17.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:18.13
Bill
I don't know if proud is right. i'm I'm impressed. I'm impressed that we were, not even impressed because I think we have, whatever.

00:40:20.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:23.96
Bill
we did I think it went well the way that we handle things.

00:40:25.64
Mike
Are you glad that we did it? Keep it simple. Mm-hmm.

00:40:28.66
Bill
I don't even know if if glad it's not like, I'm like, Hey, I'm glad we did that. It just, it's it's, I don't know. It's, it was done in a way that maybe um I think we did it well. We did it, you know, clean.

00:40:38.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:39.01
Bill
We did it nice and kept it nice and clean.

00:40:39.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:40:41.37
Bill
So yeah.

00:40:41.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:40:42.81
Bill
there Wait, where's my, hang on.

00:40:43.57
Mike
Nah.

00:40:44.52
Bill
I got, ah, just pat, pat yourself on the back there, buddy.

00:40:47.47
Mike
Yeah. Retreat. Hey.

00:40:49.01
Bill
I'm getting both sides.

00:40:49.05
Mike
Back to the nonsense.

00:40:49.85
Bill
My, my, my shoulder, my shoulder hurts a little bit. So had to reach around there, reach around.

00:40:54.63
Mike
yeah

00:40:55.02
Bill
Wait, what?

00:40:55.16
Mike
reach her i hey

00:40:56.08
Bill
i Hey, Hey,

00:40:57.42
Mike
back to the back to the nonsense

00:41:01.40
Bill
Hang on one second. Speaking of, didn't even really have a reach around. So um i don't know if I don't know if she listens to this, to these episodes, but she used to every once in a while. I'm not going name her on here, but so a good friend of mine that also um does hiking and stuff like that.

00:41:16.52
Bill
And I woke up to this to this text message. Okay. So, I mean, fucking five in the morning, I look at my phone, I get a text message already, which is kind of weirdish. I mean, usually I don't get text messages right away.

00:41:26.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Great.

00:41:28.67
Bill
Um, but what she said is she's like, she's like, here's one for you, a hyping group, group, group announcement that I woke up to. So it says, um, the bald knob and Mount Crosby loop, the name of the mountain.

00:41:41.01
Bill
Okay. The, where this, where this thing is, this group hike is going to be, is called Cockermouth forest.

00:41:41.93
Mike
Nice.

00:41:47.30
Mike
i

00:41:48.94
Bill
And I went back. I'm like, I'm like, Oh my God, the name of the forest. I'm like, I want to go. I would like, if I was ever in that in that area, I'm like, I'd hike it every goddamn day just so I could post pictures and fucking tag Cockermouth.

00:41:56.37
Mike
Yes. Yes. Sure. Yes. jesus

00:42:00.89
Bill
So then I sent her, then I sent her, I'm like, this is the one I want to visit. So I sent her the glory, the glory hole trail.

00:42:06.07
Mike
yes

00:42:06.85
Bill
ah She laughed at that too. Cause I'm like, I'm like, fuck it. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, therere I don't know how many fucking weird trails there out there. There's got to be a ton of them. Like, now it's going to be on my mission to find weird.

00:42:16.14
Mike
sure

00:42:18.16
Bill
The one I went to in North Carolina just came up as a memory recently. was That was the Pickens Nose Trail.

00:42:23.69
Mike
yes

00:42:24.66
Bill
That was the one that was like the first mountain that I ever went on. And it was called Pickens Nose Trail, which I'm like, that's a fucking weird-ass name. But, I don't know, Cocker's Mouth. that's that that might be that That might be top of my list.

00:42:36.00
Mike
We may have a winner there.

00:42:36.17
Bill
Yeah. Where you going? Cocker's mouth. You know, Cocker's mouth.

00:42:41.10
Mike
Caggers mouth. Yes.

00:42:42.56
Bill
Cocker's mouth.

00:42:42.84
Mike
Yes.

00:42:43.94
Bill
speaking of it Speaking of Cocker's mouth, I got something to tell you about Charlie Sheen here in a little bit.

00:42:47.18
Mike
Yes.

00:42:47.26
Bill
But yeah i got I'll tell you about it. I don't need to jump around on that. But so I'm sorry. back Back to the readings. I'm glad you did both of them.

00:42:54.84
Mike
yes yeah

00:42:56.28
Bill
I'm happy with i am. I'm pleased with the conversation that we had. Anything else on the readings themselves or anything else at all?

00:43:03.02
Mike
No, no, not just, ah you know, go back and listen again. i read them as slowly and clearly as I could. And there was a goddamn reason for it.

00:43:13.78
Bill
right Yeah.

00:43:14.50
Mike
Yeah, no, I, they said everything that but I wanted to say. Imagine that words that aren't mine conveyed my thoughts better than I ever could.

00:43:26.78
Bill
And you know, it's just made me think about, I'll try to try to cut, maybe I could cut that out and do some of these, the clips on it, but um actually, you know, um I'll make a note.

00:43:32.29
Mike
Please do.

00:43:34.67
Bill
I'll make a note to do that. Here's, here's the problem. this is my side note on this. So the app that I use to do the episode clips and I'm,

00:43:42.26
Mike
Right?

00:43:43.30
Bill
Long story, but it's a, it, I paid whatever it is. I don't know if I pay yearly for it. If I paid once it's cheap, but I was able to get a couple of the different things I'm able to do to, to do our in bed, obviously the, but or the audio in there.

00:43:57.31
Bill
um And then use the pictures and I could do a lot with it, but I used to be able to, cause the way I do the clips, I just, it's, it's was too hard for me to search for these things. So what the way our episodes run um I do it, you know, obviously Sunday through um Friday.

00:44:06.18
Mike
Right.

00:44:11.93
Bill
And then I would just do, you know, at 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45, the 45 minute one I'd have to watch because that's what we do you our website promo. So I'd have to sometimes got to watch it where I run that so it doesn't hit the commercial.

00:44:23.06
Mike
Right.

00:44:23.15
Bill
And then I'll do 60 minutes. And then for the last two days, I just run 10 minutes in off of 60 minutes and 10 minutes back off at the end. It's just the easiest way for me to do it simple of a keep it simple, right?

00:44:33.20
Mike
Right.

00:44:33.86
Bill
Now, the problem now is that the way the, on the, on my phone, ah they must've done an update on the app in the counter. There's like two windows for the counter the start to start and finish. um You can't see the full counter anymore.

00:44:47.51
Bill
So I can't see, like if it's at 29 minutes versus 39 minutes, all I can see is the nine and then the seconds. I can't see what it is.

00:44:54.57
Mike
Right.

00:44:55.04
Bill
And I'm like, well, that's fucked up. But what I, what I figured is,

00:44:58.97
Mike
have you Have you tried to go horizontal with it? Just a thought.

00:45:02.84
Bill
You know what? I did.

00:45:04.17
Mike
but Okay.

00:45:04.85
Bill
And I tried that and it doesn't. The app doesn't switch horizontal because I'm like, some of the apps do, they spread it out that way And I'm like, that would have been perfect.

00:45:08.02
Mike
Ah.

00:45:10.71
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:45:13.18
Bill
You and I, Mike, right there, I see you.

00:45:14.64
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:15.45
Bill
You and I, I got you. Gotcha. um But when I finally figured out, I'm like, this was it years ago i or whatever it was, year ago, probably when I started paying for it. Like it'd be nice if I, if I wanted to start at 31 minutes, I could just type in 31 minutes.

00:45:29.43
Mike
yeah

00:45:29.64
Bill
So I was trying to, I was trying to pop and see if I could get in and see whatever. And then, then this little window comes up so I can, I could do that. I'm like, oh fuck. So for forever, I've been able to do that. The only problem now is that I just, I'm doing it at 15 minutes. I'm doing it at a solid minutes and just running it out for one.

00:45:45.68
Mike
Right.

00:45:45.80
Bill
Then I have to kind of play it and see where it comes up. I've had to re I had to redo one this week, which is not a big deal. um But it's, it's harder for me to isolate um an area like this. I'll be able to do it to try to get your reading in there.

00:45:57.49
Mike
Okay.

00:45:57.58
Bill
um It just, it makes it more difficult now because I can't, I can't use the slider anymore. And I've just fucking app changed.

00:46:02.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:04.37
Bill
It fucked up my life.

00:46:04.76
Mike
What?

00:46:05.83
Bill
Yeah. Wait, where does this go?

00:46:08.06
Mike
what

00:46:08.06
Bill
Sometimes I just want to yell. Well, I got the workaround. got the reach around for it.

00:46:16.86
Mike
All right.

00:46:16.95
Bill
So I'm good.

00:46:17.62
Mike
All right.

00:46:18.24
Bill
I'm good. But yes, hang on one second. um

00:46:21.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:21.97
Bill
Mike reading. clips. Cause I do want to, I want to make sure to isolate those in one way or the other.

00:46:27.09
Mike
Yes. Cool.

00:46:29.79
Bill
Maybe I'll just, um, I can probably just go in and do it rather than a daily clip, do a separate post or something like that.

00:46:35.39
Mike
That'd be cool.

00:46:36.31
Bill
Just do the reading itself. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'll, I'll figure that out.

00:46:38.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:41.14
Mike
Yeah. All right, well, while you're figuring that out, I'm looking at the old clock on the wall.

00:46:45.79
Bill
Hey,

00:46:49.42
Mike
And I think we'll be right back with some lighter stuff, hopefully, after these words from our sponsors.

00:47:07.28
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. So some lighter shit. you want Did you say lighter lighter stuff?

00:47:12.25
Mike
i've i i I said hopefully.

00:47:15.83
Bill
Okay, how about how about a juggler?

00:47:16.08
Mike
who

00:47:18.48
Bill
want it know not like not like Not like murder juggler, not like in your neck. I mean, a real juggler.

00:47:23.61
Mike
Yes, right.

00:47:24.02
Bill
Okay.

00:47:24.05
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Penn Jillette. Gotcha.

00:47:26.25
Bill
Yeah. yeah Okay. So, um, ah so fucking stupid.

00:47:30.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:30.63
Bill
I, I almost, let me tell you, did not tell you the thing. So I went up to this place ah and I did, uh, last, uh, last summer, late, late, late summer, early fall last year. When I was, I think when I was back here in September, same thing, I was just looking for, um I didn't want to go to the dunes.

00:47:40.36
Mike
and

00:47:44.85
Bill
I didn't want to do all that stuff. I'm like, just looking for something like a local place for ah a nice, easy trail to get like a walk-in. And there's this area and it's like right in between in the middle of these subdivisions.

00:47:55.48
Bill
So right up by, you know, where Speedway is off the freeway, Highway 49 comes off there.

00:47:59.54
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:47:59.92
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:48:00.18
Mike
When I get off the turnpike. Yeah. Stop there plenty of times for gas.

00:48:02.17
Bill
so Yep, literally about um two blocks north of that to the right. That's where it is. It's like right up there.

00:48:08.91
Mike
Hmm. Okay.

00:48:09.85
Bill
um And I mean, part of this trail that I went on gets close to the freeway because I took the long one this time. So it's literally right up that way.

00:48:15.20
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:48:16.88
Bill
um I did it last year. They got the short loop that's like 1.3 miles. And I had time on, I think Sunday I went up there. I'm like, fuck it. I'm going to do the full one. It was like just under three miles.

00:48:26.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:26.87
Bill
um And it's just, it's not a... It's not a hiking trail and I posted some pictures. It's literally a walking trail, but it's just a nice walk. It's a nature preserve is what it is. It's fucking nice and it's peaceful and it's easy.

00:48:35.60
Mike
Okay.

00:48:38.44
Bill
Okay.

00:48:38.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:39.44
Bill
I'm just out there for a walk. So I'm walking through and I did the long loop and the whole bit and it was nice, the decent day of the whole bit. And I'm coming around kind of this one, um this one corner and you know, kind of where the trail is going to like loop around, kind of like curve a little bit to the right.

00:48:54.42
Bill
And I see somebody coming, no big deal.

00:48:54.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:55.78
Bill
There's people walking all over the place.

00:48:57.55
Mike
Right.

00:48:57.70
Bill
Then I look, and I'm like, is this guy fucking juggling? And the guy, okay, he's got like comfortable, um um I'm going to call them slacks, okay?

00:49:06.81
Mike
Okay.

00:49:07.43
Bill
So comfortable slacks. and If I had to guess his age, he's probably... I might be younger than us for between forties and fifties, roughly in that age, not, not super old, not super young, right.

00:49:17.00
Mike
Okay. Right.

00:49:18.92
Bill
Somewhere within our age range. Okay.

00:49:20.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:21.20
Bill
Um, comfortable slacks. Like he might be on a golf course, but not, not, you know weird Rodney Dangerfield slacks. mean, comfortable slacks, nice polo shirt.

00:49:27.10
Mike
Right.

00:49:29.95
Bill
He's wearing white gloves, like a, like a conductor would wear in a band and he's c juggling.

00:49:35.47
Mike
Nice. what What was he juggling?

00:49:37.79
Bill
but Just fucking balls. Okay.

00:49:39.33
Mike
and Okay. Sure.

00:49:40.17
Bill
He's just juggling balls. And of the three of them, you know, just juggling along, walking around.

00:49:41.84
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah.

00:49:44.53
Bill
And I'm walking around but in my head. I'm like, it's not, I'm not computing this in my fucking, I'm like, is this, this dude, I'm on a trail, right?

00:49:49.15
Mike
sure

00:49:52.38
Bill
I'm walking in the middle the fucking woods and this guy's juggling, you know?

00:49:52.56
Mike
her

00:49:55.69
Mike
yeah

00:49:56.60
Bill
And he's just like, hi, how are you today? um And he stopped, you know grab grabbed his balls, the one the ones that he was juggling.

00:50:02.65
Mike
ah ha As one's want to do. Right.

00:50:05.84
Bill
The ones he was juggling, dot is not in his nice slacks. He may have grabbed his balls there, wasn't paying attention.

00:50:09.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:10.78
Bill
um But then walked by and then I'm like, I'm good, how are you? Kind of thing. And in my head, I'm like,

00:50:15.38
Mike
Yep. right

00:50:16.71
Bill
You're fucking crazy, you know?

00:50:18.23
Mike
yeah

00:50:18.66
Bill
Um, and then I'm looking around and then as soon as he gets, you know, I don't know, 10, 15 feet behind me is, as he's going around the loop again, he just starts fucking juggling.

00:50:26.16
Mike
yeah

00:50:26.90
Bill
And then, so I finished my walk and I'm walking back to my car and, uh, I crossed the street and I was and a little bit of water left. and I was just standing outside. was, let my car start and kind of cool down for a minute and I'm standing out there and here he comes.

00:50:39.87
Bill
He's finishing his walk up and I drift. Oh my that

00:50:45.33
Bill
Like what's I, I, I don't know. Is it fucking weird? I mean, you're, you're not a hiker. I mean, I, I am, I do, I do some hiking.

00:50:51.58
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:50:53.43
Bill
You've taken a walk before, right?

00:50:54.90
Mike
got Yeah. Once or twice.

00:50:56.19
Bill
In, in, in nature, even you've taken a walk.

00:50:58.25
Mike
yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:00.11
Bill
don't know.

00:51:00.13
Mike
It's happened.

00:51:01.41
Bill
Does it, I don't, it's fucking weird, right? Yeah.

00:51:05.00
Mike
Yeah, yeah. I mean, ah you know, I i i actually, was, this was, God, 30 years ago, maybe something.

00:51:14.47
Bill
yeah

00:51:15.12
Mike
I was out. ah We were at, there's a place here in northern Ohio called Squire's Castle. It's in the middle of a metro park. um And we were having a picnic there and, you know, cooking out. And, they you know, clearly this was a while ago.

00:51:29.43
Mike
Doing some drinking. I may have been sticking some stuff up my nose. ah yeah

00:51:34.84
Bill
Pickles? yeah Pickles?

00:51:36.90
Mike
Yes, right. Nickels. Yeah, i some sort of monetary denomination. But anyway, hanging out, having a good time. And, you know, yeah, in this park. And I mean, there was ah there was a couple of people there juggling um in this park.

00:51:51.65
Mike
So, I mean, i've seen I've seen jugglers in the wild. ah They do exist. um Yeah, you know, shit, man. That's, you know, people that it's kind of their hobby or whatever, and they go out and, you know, yeah, a park, whatever, nature preserve.

00:52:08.94
Mike
Yeah, that's, it's fine. I don't.

00:52:11.61
Bill
No, and i'm not I'm not even condemning the guy for it. it was just fucking weird.

00:52:15.17
Mike
Right.

00:52:16.53
Bill
You know, and the thing with is though, had he been standing in the middle of, because there's there's an area where you could, there's benches, this whole thing.

00:52:16.56
Mike
Well.

00:52:22.49
Bill
It's like the, there's concrete paths and there's a fountain and there's whatever.

00:52:26.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:26.24
Bill
Had he been standing like in the middle of one of the open grassy areas juggling, I have thought of it as much as him walking along ah the the path juggling.

00:52:29.00
Mike
Sure.

00:52:31.51
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:32.90
Bill
But I get it. Okay, so t are you saying to each his own?

00:52:36.56
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Didn't we just have a reading about not judging people?

00:52:39.38
Bill
Kind of like, Yeah.

00:52:41.66
Mike
and

00:52:42.89
Bill
And that's, that's kind of, that's kind of what I was going back to.

00:52:45.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:45.21
Bill
I'm just like, you know, I, I wasn't trying to put him down. I'm just like, it's fucking weird. I don't, a I don't know. But then, you know, then as I'm, as I'm telling the story now, I'm like, God, he's wearing gloves. I, I should have caught that.

00:52:56.16
Bill
Like he was a serial killer. Why does he have gloves on? Maybe that's his, that's his thing. You know, he's like, get, get somebody.

00:53:00.48
Mike
Right. He's the juggler.

00:53:03.12
Bill
i cant the The juggling strangler or some stupid fuck like that, you know? that's how he is's how he draws people in. Hey, I'm juggling, you know, because why why the gloves, huh? and

00:53:12.58
Mike
yeah You want to come back here and watch me juggle four balls?

00:53:17.74
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:18.42
Bill
No, thank you. No, thank you. yeah But, okay, so I just, that was it that was a lighter subject. You asked for lighter, so you can...

00:53:25.32
Mike
That was absolutely, you know, and hey, man, you know, the guy, ah did it did it bring you any sort of joy seeing him?

00:53:32.12
Bill
It did. it It made me laugh. It made me fucking laugh.

00:53:33.53
Mike
Well, there you go. Then he did his job. God bless him.

00:53:36.70
Bill
Yeah, you did. But so yeah, it was just, okay, from from now on, I'm going to look for odd things like that.

00:53:38.94
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:53:43.01
Bill
That might be, as as weird as that sounds, that might be the oddest thing I've ever seen on a hiking trail is somebody juggling.

00:53:47.86
Mike
ah

00:53:49.23
Bill
But just because I didn't, I didn't expect it, you know, but okay, teach teach his own.

00:53:52.15
Mike
right yeah

00:53:54.30
Bill
Okay.

00:53:54.54
Mike
yeah Yeah, nice little surprise.

00:53:56.26
Bill
Now,

00:53:56.99
Mike
You got some entertainment out there.

00:53:59.38
Bill
I fucking did. I really did.

00:54:00.90
Mike
ah who

00:54:02.65
Bill
All right. So um this goes back to a podcast and posting stuff. So earlier, was it earlier this week or whatever it was? It was, it was since we have last recorded. I know that much.

00:54:12.04
Mike
Okay, so not now, in the past.

00:54:14.59
Bill
Somewhere in the last seven days.

00:54:16.74
Mike
Okay.

00:54:17.06
Bill
um There was a meme that I had posted and it was a, it was the, the Jesus one where it says, Jesus is coming. It's like, I'm coming, I'm coming, I'm coming. Jesus is coming. And then the, the, like the line on the top says, you know, dude's been edging for, you know, 2000 years.

00:54:26.68
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:31.40
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

00:54:32.82
Bill
And um I just, it's, it was funny. I've i've seen it before, but i don't think I ever posted it. So I did.

00:54:37.29
Mike
awesome

00:54:38.47
Bill
And then um some, some chick, you know, put basically a comment on there that just said, um unfollow, you know?

00:54:46.19
Mike
ah

00:54:46.94
Bill
And I'm like, I just laughed, you know?

00:54:49.44
Mike
ah huh

00:54:49.97
Bill
um It just said, literally, I commented with a laughing emoji. And then I looked at her in her profile. I'm like, is this, is this person sober?

00:54:57.57
Mike
Uh huh.

00:54:59.16
Bill
I mean, have I, have I seen this person before? Whatever it was. Um, and no, I no idea who she was. Um, maybe she's been sober, maybe whatever, but, and then one of our followers and let's say her name was Deborah, which I don't know what her name was, but she's like, one of our followers said, uh, said, says, Hey, Deborah, no need to announce that you're, that you're unfollowing.

00:55:06.51
Mike
right.

00:55:09.05
Mike
Uh

00:55:13.99
Mike
huh.

00:55:20.43
Mike
Right.

00:55:20.69
Bill
Just, just leave. And I'm like,

00:55:21.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:25.25
Bill
a It's fucking awesome. But yeah, so we we lost a follower based on ah based on it ah a gnna Jesus meme.

00:55:29.72
Mike
Good.

00:55:33.80
Mike
That brings me joy. Yes.

00:55:35.25
Bill
hey Does that bring you joy? Yes, it does, actually.

00:55:37.41
Mike
Ah. has it

00:55:40.91
Bill
But yeah, I'll get back to the Charlie Sheen stuff. I got back to it a little bit, but I wrote down a couple of things. It was a couple of kind of new items that I wrote down this week and they might've been from, God, did I write down the one that you were talking about?

00:55:52.02
Bill
Oh, you know, it's funny. um Keep it simple. Today, when I get angry, I'll count.

00:55:56.04
Mike
ah

00:55:56.97
Bill
Sorry. So I wrote, I wrote the note, but the only the only thing that I, and I don't know that maybe we did talk, I guess we did talk about, because my, my parentheses question was, what do you do now versus when you first got sober, when you get angry?

00:56:08.87
Bill
But we, we talked about that. So.

00:56:10.04
Mike
Yeah, right. Take a beat, man. Think about it.

00:56:11.69
Bill
Yeah, take a beat.

00:56:12.47
Mike
Yep.

00:56:13.23
Bill
That's that's just kind of funny because, yeah, I wrote that down as a thing. OK, so the other one I wrote down, a couple of the new ones. um God grant me. i will think about where I am in my sobriety and what I can do today to deepen my commitment to my recovery.

00:56:28.49
Bill
Did I ask that question before or no?

00:56:28.50
Mike
hu Well, I don't know.

00:56:31.17
Bill
maybe it Maybe it's just because I just read it the other day that, okay, so let me let me read it again now that I kind of stumbled over it.

00:56:34.44
Mike
Right.

00:56:36.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:37.90
Bill
um I will think about where I am in my sobriety and what I can do today ah to deepen my commitment to my recovery.

00:56:41.48
Mike
yeah

00:56:45.53
Bill
Is there anything like right off the top of your head that that you think you can either, I don't know want or need, whichever one you want to choose, but anything?

00:56:54.04
Mike
um I mean, no. I think we did discuss this before because it's coming it's coming to my brain.

00:56:58.75
Bill
We may have.

00:57:00.97
Mike
If I knew what the fuck it was, why aren't I already doing it? Yeah.

00:57:05.57
Bill
Yeah, and I think i think you're right. i think you're right. So as soon as I was reading it, I'm like, did I just remembering this because I wrote it down before? But yeah, okay.

00:57:12.64
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:13.63
Bill
And i'm I'm thinking the same way.

00:57:14.26
Mike
Forget what. Hmm.

00:57:15.15
Bill
So forget, forget that one.

00:57:16.80
Mike
yeah

00:57:16.93
Bill
Forget that one.

00:57:17.21
Mike
but forget what

00:57:19.24
Bill
Exactly. um All right. So this one, I i guess I'm going to guess again that this is that this is new. Also from God Grammy. Today i will practice walking through my day as if I make a difference.

00:57:32.61
Mike
o

00:57:32.87
Bill
Now, my question is when when did you realize um that you were actually making a difference after you got sober? So not necessarily now, because I think that we, I don't know, I'm not going to, I don't want to speak speak for you or me right right at the moment, but

00:57:47.09
Mike
isn

00:57:48.37
Bill
When do you think you realized that you were actually making a difference um when after you first got sober? Let's start there.

00:57:54.17
Mike
I mean, you know, that was kind of, that's one of the first things you learn is, you know, because you learn it negatively, you know, you learn, you know, yeah, i I was a piece of shit.

00:58:05.16
Bill
yeah Right.

00:58:08.01
Mike
I was negatively impacting the people around me. That's one of the first things. hopefully, you know, that you learn in this, this process. It's not like, you know, if, if you're going into it with the right intentions, it's, you know, the wrong intentions for me would be, you know, I feel like shit. I want, you know, I want to feel better again. You know, Hey, it's not what you've been doing for the past 30 years.

00:58:34.61
Mike
Um, I feel like shit. I want to feel better. um yeah. You know, if your intention should be, I've been hurting other people. I want to learn how to not do that anymore.

00:58:45.86
Mike
Um, cause clearly I don't know how on my own. So, I mean, that was, yeah, that was the first, one of the first lessons that I, that I learned doing this thing right this time was, you know, yeah, I'm fucking hurting other people. I don't want to do that. So yes, of course I affect other people. Um, the But the lesson was, you know, negatively at first.

00:59:07.39
Mike
um But the more you do this, the more you start going, oh, well, hey, the other side of that coin is I can start affecting people positively. Yay.

00:59:16.07
Bill
Right.

00:59:16.75
Mike
Yeah. So, um yeah, pretty fucking early on. Again, if if you're walking into this thing with the right intentions, that should be one of the first lessons you learn.

00:59:27.54
Bill
Right. Yeah. and as you were talking, I mean, I was just kind of thinking about a a couple of things that I don't really know. Well, I guess I do know it's roughly time frame. I think it would have been even before or maybe when I've got that first job at that collection agency out in Rocky River, which would have been at about five months.

00:59:44.27
Bill
I remember talking, talking to Don because I had called to talk to Derek and he was off someplace.

00:59:45.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:48.74
Mike
Right.

00:59:50.86
Bill
I don't remember where um one of his friends or with, you know, Alec and his dad or whatever the deal was.

00:59:55.25
Mike
I'll be the kid.

00:59:56.42
Bill
yeah he that Yeah. At the time I'll, I'll be in a, you know, a 10 year old kid or nine year old kid or whatever he was.

01:00:00.37
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:00:01.90
Bill
Um, gosh, I still can't believe he's only fucking nine.

01:00:03.87
Mike
Yeah,

01:00:04.44
Bill
It, He's going to be fucking 25, you know?

01:00:07.15
Mike
I know.

01:00:07.16
Bill
I mean, again, I mean, yeah, do the math.

01:00:08.13
Mike
He's a goddamn grown man. Hehehehe.

01:00:10.49
Bill
yeah Do the fucking math, Bill. I mean, yeah, I know. I got it.

01:00:13.45
Mike
oh

01:00:13.73
Bill
I got it.

01:00:14.16
Mike
Oh.

01:00:14.78
Bill
um But when I was talking to her, um you know, I was just, I don't know. I tell her, I'm like, oh yeah, by the way, I got a job. got this and things are going along pretty well. and And I mean, I can't, you're talking five months sober, which is, I'm not, taking if anyone listening to us has five months sober, I mean,

01:00:25.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:29.95
Bill
I'm not taken away from that, but I just look back at the at the growth and and it's hard to explain the growth you have over the the months and years and stuff like that.

01:00:33.57
Mike
Sure.

01:00:37.50
Bill
um Five months was ah was a lifetime, you know, for I think for both of us at the time, right?

01:00:40.12
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

01:00:43.92
Bill
You know,

01:00:44.00
Mike
Five months without a drink or a drug. Fuck yeah. It's huge.

01:00:48.42
Bill
Yeah, he didn't but then I'm, you know, I'm thinking about it. So with, with Dawn and stuff like that, I'm only five months into, into being a, actually a decent human being to her, you know, after, after years of being a a fucking piece of shit.

01:00:56.87
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:01:00.06
Bill
And, you know, she, I'm telling her a couple of these things, you know, the job and things are going good and whatever. And she's like, you know what? She's like, part of me is kind of mad at you.

01:01:08.06
Mike
Yelp.

01:01:08.94
Bill
And I said, what do you mean mad? She's like, I nevermind, whatever. And I, it, I didn't get it at the time, but I mean, I did after the fact, you know, because it just didn't, it didn't make sense to me, but um you know, yeah.

01:01:13.72
Mike
Of course not.

01:01:19.24
Bill
I mean, why wouldn't she be? I mean um I put her through and like we do at anyone, you know, you put these people through this, this fucking hell for years and years and and then, Oh, now i'm now I'm a fucking decent human being now.

01:01:24.17
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:28.04
Mike
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Now I'm getting my shit together. Right. Yeah. But it doesn't.

01:01:32.90
Bill
yeah

01:01:33.32
Mike
Yeah. Why did you fucking do this 10 years ago, asshole?

01:01:34.16
Bill
yeah

01:01:37.15
Bill
yeah why why did you have to put me through all this, this fucking pain and and frustration, you know, for, for X number of years, you know, and,

01:01:43.67
Mike
Yeah. Well, if Derek was 10, why didn't you fucking do it 10 years ago, asshole?

01:01:44.89
Bill
um

01:01:48.88
Bill
yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. You know, because it was, it was, ah um it was an eye opener, you know, but, um but yeah, I mean that, so that's one.

01:01:55.64
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:57.96
Bill
And then, you know, you realizing that, i don't know when the first time um I was at mom's house, you know, with when she went, maybe came to Indiana or did whatever. And,

01:02:06.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:07.06
Bill
you know, got actually a key to the house, whatever the case was, you know, when you get ah that little bit of responsibility back and that trust back, um I don't know what just the, these, the littlest things mean, mean so much because to your point, I mean, you know, years and years of us being just complete 100% fuck Yeah.

01:02:09.69
Mike
Right.

01:02:12.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:14.51
Mike
Yep.

01:02:25.73
Bill
fuck ups right

01:02:26.51
Mike
Yep. Yep. Of course.

01:02:31.07
Bill
and then And then now people actually, it's like, ah yeah, my ex-wife got mad because I got my shit together.

01:02:36.18
Mike
Yep.

01:02:36.39
Bill
you know in the In all the right in all the the best ways possible, she was you know angry about it.

01:02:39.62
Mike
yeah

01:02:40.72
Bill
you know And I don't begrudge her for that because I agree.

01:02:41.03
Mike
of course who

01:02:45.05
Mike
No, absolutely not.

01:02:45.43
Bill
Yeah.

01:02:46.01
Mike
Yes. She earned that anger. Uh-huh.

01:02:48.94
Bill
Yeah, so that's why I've never, I've never, never questioned it.

01:02:51.41
Mike
Yep. Right.

01:02:52.49
Bill
Never questioned any of it. I'm like, I get it. No, I don't. I'm not going to question any of you. You feel this way, feel free. feel Feel that way. Plus, not only do I get it.

01:03:00.73
Mike
yeah ye

01:03:01.91
Bill
Hey, let's sit there. i'll I'll help you build it up and help you feel better about it. How am I going to do that part? wait Say something i shouldn't.

01:03:10.05
Mike
right

01:03:13.95
Bill
All right. So, um, and I was listening to a podcast, uh, I don't know again, probably this week. And, um, the, the individual was talking about a little bit about the big book and stuff like that and was talking about, um, you know, it's it's best to, to not read the big book alone. And I'm like, Hmm.

01:03:29.55
Bill
And I, I get it. You and I have talked about this a little bit where, um, reading it in a group is, I think you get more out of it that way, you know,

01:03:36.76
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

01:03:37.96
Bill
And I agree. I agree with that wholeheartedly. But um I just kind of wanted to hear the way that they were going to kind of bring it around, which which was that way. um But what the individual said was like, yeah, because if you're reading it alone, um they're like, it's kind of a hard read. And I'm like, really?

01:03:53.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:53.65
Bill
But what they were talking about is because the time it was written and way the words.

01:03:56.85
Mike
Sure.

01:03:57.01
Bill
And in my head, I'm like, first of all, I'm like, it's not fucking Shakespeare. I mean, I get Shakespeare's Shakespeare's a tough read, you know, any any Shakespeare.

01:04:01.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:04.31
Mike
Yeah.

01:04:04.96
Bill
But I suppose I can't remember like the first time we were had to sit down and read through it. I knew over over the years I was getting as in reading in a group, things were popping out at me, you know.

01:04:13.02
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:04:18.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:18.75
Bill
um But I don't remember it being difficult. Probably just, I don't know, it maybe just just a lot. i don't know. Do you think it's difficult or a hard read?

01:04:26.79
Mike
I mean, you know, if, if, um, right. Well, I mean, you know, not everyone is all that literate.

01:04:38.14
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, and it is, you know, Bill was, uh, he was, ah he was verbose in very much of his time.

01:04:38.25
Bill
Right.

01:04:47.72
Mike
And, uh, you know, he, he wrote in a way that people don't write anymore. And it certainly, oh Yeah, you know, it's if you're not used to reading, and especially reading, you know, you're not used to reading something that wasn't written last week, which, you know, a lot of people today aren't.

01:05:05.36
Bill
right

01:05:08.99
Mike
um

01:05:09.03
Bill
Right.

01:05:10.03
Mike
Yeah, you know, it it can be, i would imagine, a little difficult. um know Thankfully, you know, i say I've read things that were written before the big book was written. Um, and yeah, so, you know, I, it wasn't, you know, for you and I, but I, I can see where it would be difficult for someone who is not used to reading things of that nature.

01:05:20.21
Bill
right right

01:05:31.75
Mike
So sure. Yeah, absolutely. And, and yeah, ah but I definitely get the thing, you know, don't read it by yourself because, you know, who the fuck are you going to bounce it off of you? yeah Yeah.

01:05:42.25
Bill
Right. Right.

01:05:43.25
Mike
You have no answers. You're all fucked up in the head. Yeah. You don't know what the hell you're doing and, and, and reading it. from a book, um yeah, it's not going to help you because you're interpreting it through your own fucked up brain.

01:05:56.93
Mike
And that's not going to do, I mean, you probably get a little bit, but you're certainly not going to get what you could out of it by reading it with other people.

01:05:56.98
Bill
right

01:06:06.51
Bill
Well, and I mean, both both of those are good points. And I guess the the the thing with it is, and the the way that, um and admittedly with me, and maybe it's because of our, maybe between you and I and that sort of thing, it's because of our our age.

01:06:18.43
Bill
I mean, we have, you know, we've, we come from the the land of cursive and all these different things.

01:06:19.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:23.25
Mike
Yes, right.

01:06:23.67
Bill
And maybe some of these, these books that we had to read that were, that were written a little bit um in far different style than, than the reading of these days.

01:06:30.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:31.67
Bill
So, I mean, that, that's a good point.

01:06:32.15
Mike
Right.

01:06:33.07
Bill
didn't think about that part of it.

01:06:34.02
Mike
Yeah.

01:06:34.70
Bill
But the the other thing, too, like with me, um I don't always know. um I don't have the you've got a really my my opinion, you've got a very vast vocabulary.

01:06:44.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:44.31
Bill
And every once in a while you've said words of what the fuck does that mean? You know, you know, but the thing of it is, is that I've gotten really good over the years um and I don't know if I did it just on a pure survival in school.

01:06:46.74
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

01:06:55.44
Bill
um You know, I don't consider myself to be unintelligent. I don't have the largest vocabulary.

01:07:00.58
Mike
Right.

01:07:00.64
Bill
But I can usually pick up on something in ah with the context and I can get an idea what the word means.

01:07:04.83
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:07:07.09
Bill
I might not.

01:07:07.49
Mike
Sure.

01:07:08.08
Bill
If somebody said write down what that word means, I'd be like, this is what I think it means. I wouldn't be able to give you a textbook definition.

01:07:14.39
Mike
Sure.

01:07:14.74
Bill
um But I've got I've for whatever reason I've.

01:07:16.57
Mike
You could get the point. Yeah. From the context.

01:07:18.07
Bill
Yeah.

01:07:18.73
Mike
Exactly.

01:07:19.32
Bill
Yeah.

01:07:19.63
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:20.03
Bill
Yeah. I can, I can get a knack of something from, from the context and I've got, I've got the ability to do that. I think I always have.

01:07:25.30
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:07:26.37
Bill
um But yeah, from the big book standpoint, especially being, being new, even now, I mean, I can sit down and read the big book and, and get something from it, but um nothing like, you know, sitting in a meeting or, or again, you and I doing this, you know?

01:07:32.94
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:07:40.55
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:07:41.20
Bill
I mean, I have these, how many times have I had these fucking thoughts in my head about whatever the thing is and I bring it up on here and I mean, halfway through the sentence, i like, this is fucking stupid, you know?

01:07:50.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:50.39
Bill
either Either it's a stupid thought or I understand it or you say something, i'm like, oh, fuck, I never even thought about that, you know?

01:07:56.87
Mike
Right.

01:07:57.24
Bill
like Like what you just said about the big book, it didn't it didn't occur to me the way it was written, um even though he said, you know, he said it was the way it was written. i'm like, what the fuck's wrong with it? ah Again, my my first i first thought was that got...

01:08:07.61
Mike
Right. It's in English. Right.

01:08:09.56
Bill
like, it's not fucking Shakespeare. You know, that was my first, my first thought.

01:08:11.30
Mike
Right.

01:08:13.40
Bill
um But again, he, they brought it ah around to the fact of, which I think is hugely important. um I think with anything with this, even if you're not a 12 step individual, if you have, if you're trying to get sober or working on getting sober, or even if you've been sober for a little bit, not, not 12 stepping it, but you're in sort of rut, you know, get together with a group of like-minded people and have a, have a discussion.

01:08:25.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:32.78
Mike
Yep.

01:08:33.79
Bill
Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a goddamn AA meeting.

01:08:34.32
Mike
Yep.

01:08:36.45
Bill
I mean, we I've heard podcasts recommended to like, even if you're not a 12 step, um step into a big AA meeting sometime. If you want to feel truly anonymous, quote unquote, um sit in the back of the room and just listen, you know, you will get something out of it.

01:08:45.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:48.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:50.81
Bill
um

01:08:50.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:51.57
Bill
Everything may not stick. Everything, you know, take what you need, right? Throw the rest away.

01:08:54.60
Mike
Right. Yep.

01:08:55.53
Bill
um You know, but if nothing else, get together. It's this community thing we talk about, get together with people. So I agree with that wholeheartedly with the big book. It just I'm glad you mentioned that, though, about the um like I said, about how it was written, because it just it didn't I didn't really get it right away when I was thinking it was it was hard to read.

01:09:08.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:12.03
Bill
But I get it now.

01:09:13.91
Mike
Great.

01:09:16.09
Bill
See, you know, here's the thing. I may not think the big book's hard to read, but I can't understand the fucking concept of what the guy was talking about. The fact the big book was hard to read. So, so there, I'm not saying I'm better. I'm not saying I'm worse.

01:09:28.57
Bill
I'm just fucking, it was just ah my, my lack of understanding was over here where this individual is talking about a lack of understanding over here.

01:09:33.09
Mike
right

01:09:36.09
Mike
Right.

01:09:38.32
Bill
Yeah, whatever. Again, are we, are we that complicated? Are we just, uh, no, it's the,

01:09:42.39
Mike
or They're just that stupid.

01:09:45.77
Bill
yeah You know what? I'll i'll accept I will accept either one.

01:09:49.48
Mike
Right.

01:09:50.00
Bill
i will accept either one

01:09:50.95
Mike
both Both shoes fit.

01:09:53.00
Bill
Yeah, that is for that is for goddamn sure. um All right. Let me just pick one of these. Well, hang on one sec. Now we don't need to do this. ah What I do want to do, though, at some point and probably not, probably not now.

01:10:03.75
Mike
Hmm.

01:10:05.14
Bill
We can plan on doing whenever. But it was a keep it simple. Had the reading. And I think I thought about this last year, too, but I don't if wrote it down. There was a part of the action saying that, um you know, today I'll read the first three pages of chapter five, which is how it works.

01:10:18.80
Mike
Right.

01:10:19.08
Bill
um And I wouldn't mind. Have we ever read how it works on here?

01:10:22.63
Mike
I don't know.

01:10:24.06
Bill
I don't think we have, but, uh, and maybe if we did, I don't remember.

01:10:27.49
Mike
Okay.

01:10:27.51
Bill
It's one of the, it's one of my favorite things in in the big book, just because it is how it works.

01:10:29.65
Mike
Well, sure. hey. Yeah. Yeah.

01:10:34.77
Bill
So we, we can, as they, as they, as they would say, we can table that or put a pin in that for now.

01:10:39.50
Mike
the

01:10:39.73
Bill
But, um, that was just one of the ones I came across. I wouldn't mind doing that at at some point.

01:10:42.67
Mike
yeah

01:10:43.13
Bill
I just think it'd be, it'd be fun. Cause I mean, it's, uh, I, I like that part. I really, really do.

01:10:47.32
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we should.

01:10:50.16
Bill
okay um All right. One more from Keep It Simple. Pretending to be perfect. Oh, no. Shit. did i We did that one, too. Doesn't allow us to be real. It's also boring. Jesus fucking God.

01:11:00.46
Mike
Yeah, go ahead and scratch that one off.

01:11:03.82
Bill
You know what? i im I'm disappointed in myself.

01:11:08.68
Mike
It's okay, Bill. were We're all human. It's all right.

01:11:12.59
Bill
Well, you know, you know, what's funny is i there's a very, very good possibility that I had that written down twice.

01:11:18.87
Mike
Yeah, right?

01:11:20.23
Bill
Very good possibility.

01:11:21.69
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

01:11:22.20
Bill
Cause I, I put, when we do these things, I either, I've got a number next to it so I can keep it in order what we talked about or I, or I X things off and then I go through and I delete them, you know, off of my, the thing on my phone.

01:11:28.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:31.44
Mike
Right.

01:11:32.77
Bill
So either way, whatever my process, fuck y'all.

01:11:33.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Little peek behind the curtain of No.

01:11:42.84
Bill
Again, it's ah it's a fucking process. It's not a goddamn secret. Are we polished? Fuck no. But you know what?

01:11:47.88
Mike
no

01:11:48.80
Bill
We're funny.

01:11:49.91
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:11:50.81
Bill
We think we are.

01:11:52.35
Mike
well Well, we'll edit that out in post. It'll be fine.

01:11:54.91
Bill
Yeah, exactly. All right. So this is from Touchstones. We don't, I know I don't, I've only been reading Touchstones for less than a year, I think. So Jesus Christ.

01:12:01.49
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:12:03.10
Bill
um It is the greatest of all, almost. must Okay. But it is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do a little, do what you can. Okay.

01:12:13.92
Mike
Yep.

01:12:14.03
Bill
That we've also talked about from a God grant me standpoint, haven't we? Like not doing something.

01:12:17.70
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:12:19.71
Bill
We can't do it right. Don't do it. Fuck me. Just.

01:12:21.83
Mike
Right. ya Yeah, yeah, Right. Yeah, exactly. You know, that's that's clearly old behavior. Right. I'm not going to be able to do enough so I won't do anything. Well, fuck. how You know, that's, again, that's ego shit, man.

01:12:35.48
Mike
You know, what do how who am I to say that what I'm doing is not enough for someone else? It may be more than enough.

01:12:42.26
Bill
Right.

01:12:43.89
Mike
This little bit that I think is worthless and in not doing enough. For someone might be more than someone else needs. It's exactly what they needed at that time.

01:12:54.73
Mike
So who the fuck am I to hold back? Because I don't think it's enough.

01:12:59.48
Bill
right

01:13:00.05
Mike
Yeah, do what you can, man. Do what you do. Just do.

01:13:06.93
Mike
Wait, what what did Michael Jordan say?

01:13:10.62
Bill
It's

01:13:11.12
Mike
yeah.

01:13:14.34
Bill
a Nike thing too, I think. I don't know.

01:13:15.90
Mike
Right. We stepping on copyright here.

01:13:19.82
Bill
Yeah. tiz It should be done justly.

01:13:23.00
Mike
Yes.

01:13:25.50
Bill
There.

01:13:25.78
Mike
Go forward and do it

01:13:29.82
Bill
All right. So I think just scanned over this one. I think I've done this one before. From God grant me, God damn it.

01:13:36.35
Mike
Yes.

01:13:37.63
Bill
ah It talked about to us always wanting to learn the hard way. Okay.

01:13:42.52
Mike
hmm.

01:13:43.71
Bill
Do you still, my question for you, do you still learn or think you learn things the hard way at times? Or when did you begin taking time to learn things the easy way?

01:13:49.59
Mike
Hmm. Right.

01:13:53.03
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:13:53.82
Mike
right

01:13:53.95
Bill
um So do you still think you you learned things the hard way or when did you learn that you don't necessarily need to go through the the hard way to get to the end?

01:14:02.92
Mike
Um, um, I mean, right.

01:14:06.00
Bill
what What time is it? Really?

01:14:08.22
Mike
No, um, ah that's, it's, God, that's, uh, and I can't remember what step it is. I can't remember. Fuck. I know it's in the 12 and 12. Cause I, I remember this discussion from my 12 and 12 meeting years ago.

01:14:20.41
Bill
Really?

01:14:21.34
Mike
Yeah. Somewhere in there, it talks about, um i Again, I don't remember it. I don't even remember the context, but it it does talk about, you know, we don't have to we don't have to go to extremes to learn the lesson. We don't have to we don't have to bottom out you know anymore we can We can learn things without big destroyed Um, basically, um, yeah, you know, right.

01:14:47.84
Bill
Right.

01:14:49.74
Mike
And so, ah yeah, probably a year or so in when I was doing that and it was like, wow, you know, it's okay to allow ourselves. Cause yeah, you know, clearly old behavior, old ways of doing things was, yeah I'm going to learn it the hard way.

01:15:04.01
Mike
I'm going to go until it fucking hurts. And it's, yeah, we don't have to do that. That's part of, This better life that we have is we don't have to bottom out. We don't have to feel extreme pain to stop doing something, to change our behaviors, to be better, to whatever. We don't have to we don't have to do that anymore.

01:15:25.53
Mike
And um yeah, um so i I try not to, you know, I'm not saying I succeed all the time because clearly I don't. ah But, but you know, a long time ago, I realized i don't have to live that way anymore.

01:15:42.62
Mike
um

01:15:42.80
Bill
Right.

01:15:43.24
Mike
So we're yeah, again, one of the gifts, one of the promises, one of the whatever the fuck you want to call it of living this way is not having to live that way.

01:15:53.50
Bill
Right. One of the, one of the byproducts of the work that we do, we get, we get that, that result.

01:15:57.95
Mike
Yeah. Mm

01:15:59.43
Bill
So do you think that goes along with, cause it made me think about, as again, as you were talking that, you know, learning to um ask for help and and literally follow directions.

01:16:03.71
Mike
hmm.

01:16:07.52
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

01:16:08.66
Bill
You think that goes along the same lines with not doing it the hard way.

01:16:10.66
Mike
Oh, absolutely.

01:16:11.38
Bill
Okay.

01:16:11.80
Mike
Yeah, yeah. really why yeah You know, it it's starting to become uncomfortable, whatever the fuck it is. ah maybe Maybe I should reach out for some help instead of continuing on and continuing on hurting more and more and more. Yeah, right. That's just it.

01:16:28.76
Mike
Yeah. you know being Again, smashing that ego and humbling yourself and and allowing um there's some outside help, whatever the fuck it is, to make things easier.

01:16:34.72
Bill
Right.

01:16:40.65
Mike
o

01:16:40.91
Bill
right

01:16:41.54
Mike
Sounds like a plan.

01:16:43.31
Bill
Yeah. And, uh, and I, and I know that we, we have easily have not talked specifically about asking for help, but I mean, um, I think we have, you know, but it, it is when, when it comes along with that, cause I mean, doing, doing things the hard way.

01:16:48.92
Mike
isn't Yeah.

01:16:56.01
Bill
Um, I don't know. I mean, it I'm sure it was a, uh, you know, this, whatever male ego driven, whatever stupid thing that we're all, um,

01:17:02.44
Mike
Absolutely. Source of pride. Yeah.

01:17:06.14
Bill
this this fucking stupid shit that our...

01:17:08.59
Mike
I'm hard-headed.

01:17:10.93
Bill
Part of it, maybe it's just you know our generation did. i mean we're the We're the tail end of that maybe that hard-headed generation, thankfully.

01:17:13.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:16.21
Mike
Right.

01:17:16.94
Bill
but Part of it, yeah. I got here and granted, you and I like to granted you and i like to get things that we earn and work for it, but it doesn't mean that we have to beat ourselves up to do it.

01:17:28.35
Mike
right

01:17:28.67
Bill
You can, you can earn something and also ask for help along the way.

01:17:31.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:32.04
Bill
And, you know, the thing of it is that sometimes, I mean, if I, I like something as simple as, I mean, I know this is a, you know, kind of like a, again, a first world problem, but you know, if, if I'm trying to figure something out, I mean, I, I go to YouTube, you know, and I, if I can't find, if I look for something and can't find something on the internet or YouTube, it blows my fucking mind these days.

01:17:40.02
Mike
Right.

01:17:44.26
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:51.57
Bill
I'm like, how can this not be ah

01:17:54.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:55.24
Bill
YouTube, you know, but, but yeah, you, you look this shit up, you know, and, um, or you ask for help. I, when ah we talked about, you know, I know I have, um, physical limitations, just, I'm not, I'm not physically, I'm not disabled in any way, shape or form, but,

01:18:04.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:08.16
Mike
No.

01:18:09.55
Bill
i you know i've I got older. If anyone hasn't figured it out, you've gotten older.

01:18:11.24
Mike
Yeah. easy

01:18:13.31
Bill
um And there are certain things that I could do it, but I'm going fucking pay for it. you know And i don't want to do that.

01:18:17.31
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:18:18.61
Bill
you know So I ask for help.

01:18:19.15
Mike
No.

01:18:20.09
Bill
I mean, i I like these heavy things over here.

01:18:20.62
Mike
Yes.

01:18:22.58
Bill
I can't lift them. Can I get my get my son or somebody else?

01:18:24.75
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Hey, kid, come here. Lift this.

01:18:28.78
Bill
yeah Come here. Come here, strong 25-year-old boy.

01:18:32.23
Mike
Exactly.

01:18:33.23
Bill
Young man. Not that boy, but young man.

01:18:34.60
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:18:36.68
Bill
But yeah, oh, maybe think about just ah a quick update on my my whole leg wound because I haven't talked about that in a while.

01:18:41.30
Mike
Ah.

01:18:42.39
Bill
it's ah It's to the point now, like this week, I um i took the... i took I've been wearing the bandage and a little collagen things on it, which is repairing the skin the whole bit. It's down now. it It's scabbed up to the point where I was putting these collagen things on it and it wasn't doing anything anymore because it it got down to the point where it's scabbed up.

01:18:59.91
Bill
And it's literally the um scab area is... I don't know. It's not even any bigger than a dime now.

01:19:07.45
Mike
Nice.

01:19:08.18
Bill
I mean, but here's the weird part though, is that the, I don't have a lot of where all this new skin is. It looks, it doesn't look, it doesn't look out of the ordinary. You know it's not like, Oh, you can, it's like somebody popped a different color plug in there or anything like that.

01:19:21.19
Mike
Aha.

01:19:21.92
Bill
um But it's, I don't have a lot of, maybe it'll, it'll come over time. I clearly, I mean, the nerve endings must got fucked up because I don't have as much feeling in that area. That's new, which is weird. You know? But um I was thinking about it. was thinking about it the other day because I was like, oh, I will bring it up but again if it pops into my head.

01:19:38.80
Mike
<unk>

01:19:38.90
Bill
And, you know, because Kathy had asked me, you know, she's like, well, how long was that? And and I'm like, well, how long did I? And I was thinking of just about the same thing. Went for when it happened or when I asked for help.

01:19:49.14
Mike
Yep.

01:19:51.28
Bill
And I think this is not only a good sobriety lesson, but this goes along exactly to what we were just talking about.

01:19:54.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:56.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:57.31
Bill
So I went into the doctor um after Founders Day, so middle of June.

01:20:03.19
Mike
Yep.

01:20:03.74
Bill
You know, so I mean, literally what day is it? It's like three months ago is when I went into the doctor for the first time.

01:20:08.74
Mike
ah huh

01:20:08.98
Bill
Um, and I mean, basically this, this healed up. i mean, when I was into the doctor two, three weeks ago, he had said two, three weeks from now, he goes, it should be in pretty good shape. And it is. So, I mean, basically doing all the right things with the help of the doctors and all that stuff, you know, it, yeah, it was three months, you know, to get all this back in order, but I mean, it happened back in April.

01:20:24.58
Mike
huh yeah right mm-hmm right no no yeah knowing you had a problem right

01:20:27.24
Bill
Okay. So, you know, from, from admitting that I had a problem or no, I'm sorry, no, no, no, knowing i had a problem. And knowing had a problem to admitting that I needed help with it, you know, took me took me two months, you know.

01:20:39.94
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:20:43.69
Bill
So it's just it's ah it is there. There we go. The hard way. I mean, I that's a real that's a real like life example.

01:20:47.20
Mike
Yes. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. The medical degree.

01:20:49.52
Bill
But I in my defense, I just I want to let this little bit of a side note here.

01:20:49.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:20:53.92
Mike
yes

01:20:53.99
Bill
I was really fucking close. It was just a couple of items that I was missing, you know, and not being a doctor is one of them, but no.

01:20:58.19
Mike
right see

01:21:01.48
Mike
right the medical degree

01:21:04.48
Bill
Yeah, I tell you, I tell you one thing is another another side note.

01:21:04.49
Mike
ah

01:21:07.89
Bill
and I'm trying to work with my insurance company right now. um The the procedures like what he did when he was went in there, they're like three, four hundred bucks, you know, for every time I went in.

01:21:14.70
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:17.37
Bill
But after all said and done, it's like I i owe 60 bucks or 62 or something like that. But there's these two charges in there. They're billing me for two operating room charges.

01:21:26.43
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:27.01
Bill
I was not in an operating room, but those two are $1,600 a piece.

01:21:29.29
Mike
Right.

01:21:33.47
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:34.26
Bill
So 1,600 plus. So it's like $3,300 in two charges.

01:21:38.07
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:39.09
Bill
And I'm like, that's fucked up, you know?

01:21:41.40
Mike
yeah

01:21:42.40
Bill
So um I just, I'm in the process. I contacted the insurance company. I can only do it through a message and I'll contact the billing office.

01:21:48.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:21:49.39
Bill
But so speaking of buying me a coffee, yeah.

01:21:55.13
Bill
Nope. Just kidding. We're I, again, I will figure this out. I'm not ah this all said and done. I mean, if, if it turns out to be, you know, however many visits it was at even a hundred dollars a piece, I get that, you know, with my portion of it, but I mean, $1,600, cause it says right on their operating room.

01:22:06.58
Mike
h right

01:22:12.08
Mike
yeah

01:22:12.42
Bill
And I'm like, no. And I understand the insurance company saying, well, you realize if you go in and this is that this is the key where I think that the billing department fucked up the billing office because you're like, well, when you go in an urgent care or a or an yeah ER, you're going to get billed for a facility charge plus the doctor.

01:22:20.18
Mike
Right.

01:22:26.43
Bill
I'm like that part. I know from all the work I did in the medical side of things, I get that in a hospital, the doctor you get billed for also the room that you were in, also the x-ray, also the anesthesiology, also whatever.

01:22:39.17
Bill
All these different things are all separate. I went to a doctor's office.

01:22:43.70
Mike
who

01:22:44.43
Bill
That's what it is. It wasn't urgent care.

01:22:46.35
Mike
right

01:22:46.40
Bill
I made an appointment. I went to a doctor's office. So somebody built something funny is my whole point.

01:22:50.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:51.40
Bill
But but the the good thing is is my leg is to the point where it's it's it's good.

01:22:52.04
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:22:56.81
Bill
It's pretty good. um

01:22:57.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:59.01
Bill
it But I've got...

01:22:59.15
Mike
So you're saying you have a leg to stand on.

01:23:02.65
Bill
I've always had a leg to stand on, but at had it was fucked up.

01:23:04.29
Mike
he

01:23:06.27
Bill
And I know you'd never you probably never want to see it, but I just found like the the before and after picture.

01:23:08.58
Mike
No, I'm good.

01:23:10.07
Bill
is just it was fuck it was a but i know I know you are.

01:23:12.78
Mike
Thank you.

01:23:13.15
Bill
is it just ah It was a fucking mess. It was just gross. Okay, so speaking of gross now, Charlie Sheen. So I got to tell you about this.

01:23:19.70
Mike
Yes.

01:23:21.28
Bill
So um I did not.

01:23:21.81
Mike
Yes.

01:23:23.86
Bill
I heard about, i don't know which one I heard about first, but it was like all this stuff happened within two days. So there's a documentary on on Netflix.

01:23:30.37
Mike
Right.

01:23:30.47
Bill
That's number one.

01:23:31.30
Mike
I know about that.

01:23:32.33
Bill
Okay. Did you, well, you don't, you have Netflix? I'm sure Chris does.

01:23:34.28
Mike
Now, I mean, but yeah, the I don't know if she does anymore, but yeah, I do have access to it.

01:23:38.77
Bill
Oh, really?

01:23:41.35
Mike
Did I say that on the Internet? Anyway. Yeah, go ahead. Yes, I know.

01:23:45.96
Bill
Well, sure. Cause you,

01:23:46.35
Mike
i know it exists out there.

01:23:47.87
Bill
Yeah, so you could, you of course you have access. You could sit down with a friend and watch Netflix with them.

01:23:51.59
Mike
Yes, exactly.

01:23:51.71
Bill
Everyone has access.

01:23:52.99
Mike
Sure.

01:23:53.12
Bill
Everyone has access to Netflix, right?

01:23:53.36
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:23:55.16
Bill
Wink, wink. Okay.

01:23:56.33
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:56.51
Bill
So, um but um I only watched the first part of that.

01:23:56.83
Mike
I don't use it, but yes, go ahead.

01:24:01.48
Bill
that There are two i think the second one's an hour and a half also but so the documentary part's an hour and a half a piece then his book is called the um the book of sheen okay so i heard about both of them on again on in the morning show so i looked on audible blah blah blah i actually signed up for audible because the book was going to be 20 bucks i spent 14 you know for a monthly for the month and got the book and whether i continue this other books i want to read blah blah blah so anyhow that's that matters

01:24:11.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:14.12
Mike
Right.

01:24:26.04
Mike
Sure.

01:24:27.20
Bill
But so I had the book. I'm going to start listening to it on Sunday when I drive up to Wisconsin. um So I'm like, when I first saw it, I'm like, I got to get this one. This dude's a fucking train wreck, you know?

01:24:36.44
Mike
Right.

01:24:36.81
Bill
um And then, then I heard about the documentary I'm like, Jesus Christ, really?

01:24:37.19
Mike
ah

01:24:41.22
Bill
So I only watched the first part and it's funny. First of all, and I think I knew he was sober now.

01:24:47.35
Mike
Right.

01:24:47.45
Bill
uh,

01:24:47.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:48.49
Bill
About eight years. And during the time that he did it, he was like seven years. And he's like, depending on when this airs, unless that something goes drastically wrong.

01:24:56.24
Mike
Right.

01:24:56.47
Bill
goes, yes, right now I'm sober for her yeah seven years.

01:24:59.85
Mike
Right.

01:25:00.28
Bill
um But the way that he was explaining it, so he started off couple of things were kind of funny, but, um you know, kind of interesting, too. So he said he goes, he goes, OK, so how can I describe my my life? And I think they asked him the question.

01:25:13.52
Bill
Um, but he's like, he goes first, it was partying. Then it was partying with problems. Then it was just problems.

01:25:18.46
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:25:20.05
Bill
And I'm like, God, you know, I mean, almost that could be the story of any one of us. Right.

01:25:24.93
Mike
Absolutely.

01:25:24.99
Bill
Um, and I thought that's fucking great. So he's, he's going through all this stuff. And the, the, the, I think the thing that is so, um, and I'm just going to say appealing about this, this story, and I think good. What's going to be appealing about, well, two things.

01:25:38.08
Bill
First of all, um, I love listening to people who got sober And and the the shit that they went through on a star level.

01:25:45.32
Mike
Sure.

01:25:45.32
Bill
um Because it just, especially with like Charlie Sheen. I mean, our our generation, we grew we grew up with this motherfucker, you know?

01:25:51.52
Mike
Right.

01:25:52.09
Bill
i mean, he's he's our age. He's 60, you know?

01:25:54.18
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

01:25:55.12
Bill
And I mean, what we literally watched The Rise and The Fall. And I'm winning to all this different shit.

01:25:59.51
Mike
Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

01:26:01.20
Bill
And then all the all the fucking movies, you know, the the major leagues and the the Wall Street and Platoon and all the shit that he did. do And I had to look these two things up too.

01:26:12.09
Bill
So do you know what his net worth was? At the top, the peak pinnacle of his fame, how much his net worth was?

01:26:18.67
Mike
I mean, while he was making like what, he something crazy, like several million dollars an episode for the TV show. Right. Right.

01:26:28.04
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah. So that was $3 million.

01:26:30.70
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:26:30.74
Bill
Because I just looked that up.

01:26:31.30
Mike
An episode.

01:26:32.98
Bill
Oh, yeah, an episode. I just looked that up the other day.

01:26:34.17
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:35.04
Bill
Yeah.

01:26:35.20
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, crazy. So, I mean, I'm, you know, got had to have been, you know, a hundred million.

01:26:42.50
Bill
I think if if I, if I remember correctly, what I think it was two 50. Okay.

01:26:46.14
Mike
Oh, Jesus.

01:26:47.16
Bill
I think.

01:26:48.25
Mike
Right.

01:26:48.31
Bill
Um, but so the, yeah, that, um, the two and a half men that said, that was the show he, here's the other thing in 2016, um, he sold his rights to future profits in that show 1919 or I'm sorry, 2016 for 27 million.

01:26:52.35
Mike
Right.

01:27:02.71
Bill
He sold it for, okay. for twenty seven million he sold it for

01:27:06.48
Mike
Nice. Yeah, that's straight up junky pawn shop shit there.

01:27:07.48
Bill
okay

01:27:10.85
Bill
Oh, I know because that show, that show is still, it's in syndication.

01:27:14.65
Mike
oh yeah.

01:27:15.22
Bill
It's, I mean, yeah.

01:27:15.30
Mike
Yeah, still. Right.

01:27:16.88
Bill
And he's, he's back in the age where I think some of these, some of these shows back in the age of the shows that some of these ones got, you know, did the syndication thing was big where I don't think it's as big now, um you know, with all the streaming shit, but anyhow, so um guess what he's worth now?

01:27:21.28
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:25.66
Mike
Right.

01:27:31.13
Mike
i've Probably 20. 3 million. Yeah.

01:27:34.12
Bill
Three.

01:27:35.40
Mike
Yes. Yes, I do.

01:27:36.41
Bill
Yeah.

01:27:37.06
Mike
No, go ahead.

01:27:38.90
Bill
And I only reason I laugh at that because, you know, he said that another question came up to like um how much did the whatever the decision was. Oh, so you remember um the the story with Jim Benny when he first smoked crack?

01:27:50.62
Mike
yes oh yes i do

01:27:51.35
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:52.72
Mike
hey

01:27:52.88
Bill
So um you want to tell her you want me to because I think it's a funny story. Doesn't matter to me.

01:27:56.42
Mike
yeah go ahead

01:27:57.42
Bill
Okay. So that this guy, and he was the one that he was the one that did our big book study and blah, blah, blah.

01:28:01.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:01.32
Bill
And this older guy who was like 17 years sober when we got sober. Right. I think 17 sound right.

01:28:05.14
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:28:06.41
Bill
Okay. Ended up passing away. I mean, he was, he was a good dude. Had good shit. A lot of health problems, whatever. Um, straight up boozer for, for fucking years.

01:28:11.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:14.19
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:14.31
Bill
And then he was hanging around with his younger chick.

01:28:16.75
Mike
Yep.

01:28:16.94
Bill
and And she was smoking crack all the time and he could never understand you know what the deal was. He was just a boozer and boozezer boozer, boozer.

01:28:21.11
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

01:28:22.84
Bill
And then you know she's always saying, hey, if you want to try it. And he's like, nah, fuck that shit, whatever.

01:28:26.97
Mike
Right.

01:28:27.19
Bill
And then then he says one night he sat down. He's like, give me that. He goes, I'm going to try it. I'm to see what this fucking thing is all about.

01:28:33.11
Mike
Right. Well, his line was, I'm paying for it anyway. Give me some.

01:28:36.60
Bill
oh yeah

01:28:37.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:38.27
Bill
yeah

01:28:38.41
Mike
Yep. Yep.

01:28:40.09
Bill
And then he goes, he goes, I took, he goes, I lit it up and took one hit him And he's like, hello. And then he goes, he goes, I only picked up crack once. And he goes, I didn't put it down for three years.

01:28:48.91
Mike
ye

01:28:50.85
Bill
was fucking hilarious. um Again, if you want to laugh at somebody's crack problem, it was fucking hilarious.

01:28:55.75
Mike
yeah

01:28:56.24
Bill
So same deal, like same kind of thing with Charlie Sheen. He ended up um he got a phone call from this and some random individual. Apparently she's dead now. She died when she was like 30 of an overdose.

01:29:08.07
Bill
um

01:29:08.11
Mike
huh

01:29:09.14
Bill
But not it I'm not like famous actress or anything like that.

01:29:11.78
Mike
Right.

01:29:11.80
Bill
But apparently he said that somebody that both he and C. Thomas Howell um kind of had eyes for. I guess they dated her off and on, whatever.

01:29:19.32
Mike
ah

01:29:19.53
Bill
So he gets a phone call from her, goes to pick her up and this big dude, whatever she's in a bad way at some place. And so he picks her up, takes her back to his place. And, you know, she pulls out she starts, you know, takes a hit of crack or whatever and blah, blah, blah.

01:29:32.04
Bill
So to this point, Charlie Sheen done Coke and he's done all this stuff like that, but he's never done anything else, you know, just booze and Coke.

01:29:35.75
Mike
Right.

01:29:38.93
Bill
So, um, same deal. She's like, you know, Hey, if you ever want to try it, I'm not forcing you, but he's like, yeah, he goes, maybe. And he's, she's like, well, if you're going to try it, he goes, I'm going to make it worth your while while you get your first hit.

01:29:49.96
Bill
And then Charlie Sheen's they're sitting in a diner doing this documentary.

01:29:53.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:53.63
Bill
And he's like, he's like, how do i explain what she did with a little bit of class? And you can hear the guy in the background. He's like, he's like, what? He's like, no, no. Oh yeah. He goes, yeah, we're way beyond that. We're way beyond the class part so far.

01:30:04.56
Bill
Yeah. So Charlie Sheen's like, he's like, well, she's giving me a blow job while I took my first hit of crack.

01:30:08.51
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:30:10.15
Bill
So yeah, he's getting, he's getting a fucking blow job as he took his first hit of crack. And then that that was a question after that. They're like, what do you think? How much do you think that decision costs you? And he said in dollars over the years, he goes, God, a hundred ah hundred million.

01:30:21.95
Mike
Yeah. Yep.

01:30:24.37
Bill
He goes, it cost, you know, kind of, if it costs me anything, costs me a hundred billion. i'm like, Jesus Christ.

01:30:28.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:28.81
Bill
So all this, and this was just, you know, again, the first hour and a half, but he's going back and forth with all these different things. Oh, he, um, he shot up cocaine once.

01:30:37.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:37.46
Bill
Um, and he said that, uh, you know, same deal, I guess, you know, just cooked it up the whole bit. Like you would heroin, I guess.

01:30:41.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:42.49
Bill
And, you know, just,

01:30:42.80
Mike
Yeah. yeah

01:30:43.73
Bill
Fucking just shot it right up.

01:30:45.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:45.37
Bill
And then he said within within like, oh, have you?

01:30:46.87
Mike
i've I've done it.

01:30:48.54
Bill
OK, so he said like within within minutes, he like knew something is wrong because he got up and then this was funny.

01:30:48.56
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:30:55.22
Bill
He's like, he because I'm taking these like Joe Biden steps. He goes trying to walk. Yeah. And again, got his bodyguard or whatever it was. And, you know, he's like, I guess you got to take me to hospital. He goes, I'm something, something's fucking wrong.

01:31:07.92
Bill
So obviously i took him to the hospital. OD, Martin Sheen, everyone's trying to get him into rehab, blah, blah, blah. So he goes and goes into rehab, but he's supposed to, he's supposed to be judging this bikini contest or something like this in Malibu.

01:31:18.63
Bill
And he tells, he writes down this thing to ladies. Like he goes, lady at the check-in desk. And he goes, I need, he goes, I'll be back tomorrow. He goes, but I need to go. Cause see he's there on his own now, you know?

01:31:29.35
Bill
He writes out this thing and he's like, he goes, if I don't come back, he goes, I will pay you $1 million dollars if I'm not back by noon tomorrow, whatever it is. the lady's like, fuck it, man. I'm going to get a million dollars, man. This fucker's never coming back.

01:31:39.49
Mike
Right. Yep.

01:31:40.65
Bill
yeah He did. He showed up at like 1130. He did. he did He went to the whole thing, got all fucked up and came back.

01:31:46.55
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:46.55
Bill
Came back to fucking rehab. But, um, I mean, so far, I mean, it's, it's just been interesting.

01:31:48.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:31:50.86
Bill
I think it, I think you'd enjoy it. I haven't watched the last part yet. I've heard bits and pieces just cause they were talking about it on the radio. Um, but I'm really interested in in reading or reading, listening to the book. But, um, yeah, so, I mean, so the whole thing with, with shooting cocaine like that, I guess that you've done it before.

01:32:00.63
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:07.06
Bill
So it just, it just, it's gotta be a massive, just, just jolt to the system, right?

01:32:07.64
Mike
Yes.

01:32:10.90
Bill
To bloodstreams to fuck you up. Right. I mean, I'm guessing it's not, yeah, it's not good for you.

01:32:12.68
Mike
Yeah. Oh, it's a nice rush. Yeah. Well, no, no. I mean, you know, i um I'm trying to think, did I ever just do straight coke? I mean, because i was shooting speed balls for a while.

01:32:24.26
Mike
um

01:32:24.52
Bill
Ah,

01:32:25.19
Mike
Yeah, you know, so that was that was lovely. Yeah, the heroin and the coke together, it was it was beautiful. oh ah When I went into detox the first time, coming off of that, um i remember I remember the guy at the detox, right, the intake dude or whatever.

01:32:40.86
Mike
He's all, oh, yeah, that's like God comes down and kisses you on the forehead. went, yeah, that's exactly what it's like.

01:32:48.94
Bill
Uh, yeah, it was just, uh, I don't know. I think you've, you've said that you've, you've said that before. So I think you might, you might've talked about that before, but, um, yeah, I don't know.

01:32:53.96
Mike
Yeah, probably. Mm-hmm.

01:32:57.92
Bill
It just, um, I think, I don't know. i don't know what it is with, with him compared to some of the other, some of the other stories that maybe things I've listened to, but, uh, just the fact that he was just such a fucking train wreck, you know, and,

01:33:05.61
Mike
Right.

01:33:08.88
Mike
Exactly. And, and well, I mean, I think for me, the cool thing about him is, I mean, he's really intelligent. He's really well-spoken. He can, he tells a wonderful story. He knows how to do that.

01:33:18.46
Bill
Oh, yeah.

01:33:19.86
Mike
So yeah, you know, it's, yes, it's, it's entertaining listening to him talk about that train wreck. Yeah. It's,

01:33:26.09
Bill
Right.

01:33:26.59
Mike
yeah Yeah, i i die i you know I won't make any promises. I might check it out at some point. But yeah, it would something it's something I would definitely like to watch. I don't know if I ever will.

01:33:39.48
Bill
Right.

01:33:40.27
Mike
Because, you know, i'm I'm too busy watching movies from the nineteen thirty s You know, of Adam-12.

01:33:40.35
Bill
Yeah, and I...

01:33:44.23
Mike
Yes. reruns of am twelve

01:33:48.34
Bill
Right.

01:33:48.90
Mike
yes yeah

01:33:50.22
Bill
No. And you know, and the thing that is, and I know what your deal is with, with the TV watching and and all that sort of stuff. But I, as I'm, as I'm watching, I'm like, I'm like, I know you don't have Netflix, but I'm like, I wonder if Chris does. Cause I ah literally, as I'm watching this first half, I'm like, I really think you would enjoy this probably more so than probably more so than any of the other like books that I've read, you know, like, cause I've listened to, I mean, a lot of other stories already, you know, of people that, you know, talking about their addictions and stuff like that.

01:34:04.31
Mike
Yeah, I probably would. Mm-hmm.

01:34:12.44
Mike
Right.

01:34:14.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:15.10
Bill
The one that I that i paid for, because I thought it was narrated by him, um there was a story on like a biography. it was a biography, not an autobiography, about Robert Downey Jr.

01:34:25.48
Bill
So that's the one I wanted to hear.

01:34:25.54
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

01:34:27.46
Bill
And I started listening to it. It's just some guy. And a look, I'm like, motherfucker.

01:34:31.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:31.99
Bill
never listened to it. Cause I'm like, I that's, what's the point I want to hear.

01:34:35.27
Mike
right yeah right

01:34:35.97
Bill
ah the part of what I, the reason I enjoy audio books is because it's the, it's the individual you, they, you really get drawn into the per to the story, you know, by listening to the individual. Like, uh, I mean all the shit I've listened to, I don't think I would have wanted to listen to any of these books if they were not, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have, if they weren't narrated.

01:34:54.33
Bill
So now I know where to look. Cause it says right on there narrated by, ah which I didn't see right away, but, uh,

01:34:57.49
Mike
right yeah

01:35:00.22
Bill
I don't know. Yeah, you're right, though. He does. he's got ah He's got a way. He's got a way. And then, you know, I'm looking at some of these, like, back in the movies and these stories. I'm like, fuck, man. And I remember it because, you know, again, we we lived it, you know.

01:35:11.07
Bill
You know, not lived it, but we lived during the time that all this stuff was happening.

01:35:11.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

01:35:15.31
Bill
So, um I don't know.

01:35:15.65
Mike
Right.

01:35:17.13
Bill
It's just, ah it's interesting. So, more to come. But, yeah, elise at least it sent me. I think at least it was ali ah was a message from the Sober Curator on Facebook. So, I posted I downloaded that book.

01:35:27.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:29.66
Bill
And then the sober curator commented, oh, write a book review. I haven't told Elise yet.

01:35:33.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:34.16
Bill
The monthly meeting is tomorrow, so I'll tell her tomorrow. I'm like, i can't I can't do a book review. I can't.

01:35:39.31
Mike
Right.

01:35:39.98
Bill
I don't have the – I don't have the – and in um I'm just – again, I know my limitations.

01:35:41.16
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

01:35:45.00
Bill
I don't have the – mental capacity to listen to books the way that I do. i can I can spit out some stuff on here, um but some of the stuff just pops into my head to actually sit down and write a book review.

01:35:52.50
Mike
Sure.

01:35:56.99
Mike
yeah

01:35:57.16
Bill
Now, if i if I knew if that was part of my job to do it, I would sit down and listen to the book and I would make notes as I was doing it.

01:36:02.76
Mike
right

01:36:03.08
Bill
um And I would put together probably a hell of a fucking review.

01:36:05.68
Mike
sure

01:36:05.78
Bill
um you know But I just, I know myself, I can't,

01:36:08.08
Mike
Yeah, it's not that you're not capable of it. You just don't fucking want to. Right.

01:36:12.03
Bill
Well, in in again, in the in the way that I listen to it, I don't sit around here and listen to audiobooks.

01:36:12.37
Mike
Yeah. Yeah,

01:36:17.35
Bill
I listen to it while I'm driving, and I can't i can't make notes and stuff on something while while I'm driving.

01:36:17.72
Mike
right. yeah

01:36:22.39
Bill
So it doesn't it doesn't fit the way that I listen to them.

01:36:26.92
Mike
who

01:36:27.54
Bill
Again, if it was an assignment, but but no, I do not want to sit for eight hours, which this book is eight and a half hours long.

01:36:33.15
Mike
yeah right

01:36:33.62
Bill
I don't want to sit for eight hours and make notes and then write a review on it. I just don't i don't want to do that.

01:36:38.64
Mike
Exactly. You want to shut them fucking dogs up?

01:36:39.49
Bill
So that part of it, you're right. You're right. Oh, and um I'm telling you, I don't i don't know. i think – hang on one second. do You want to – okay, hold on.

01:36:49.96
Mike
Yep.

01:36:51.19
Bill
Hold on one moment.

01:36:51.94
Mike
I asked for it. Anyway, Bill's going to go and shut those goddamn dogs up. Oh,

01:37:03.51
Mike
oh Notice my spider and my snake aren't making any noise at the moment.

01:37:10.52
Bill
Sometimes I just want to yell.

01:37:12.81
Mike
Yeah, I know. Ah. Mm-hmm.

01:37:13.91
Bill
And I, well, I was, I was trying so hard. I was trying so hard. Cause I'm like, we're almost done.

01:37:18.09
Mike
yeah i know

01:37:18.49
Bill
And, uh, I mean, he, that was, that was, that was tugger. And, you know, he's been, the the problem is not, not the problem.

01:37:21.92
Mike
ah

01:37:24.25
Bill
Um, but, um, Kathy, Kathy took off today. Her and Cheryl went, they would hit the dunes and did everything. It's going to be a nice day. Um, so, you know, two of them took off or whatever, But um it's like the the dogs know when something's out of out of the ordinary as far as the schedule part of things.

01:37:38.59
Bill
And I mean, Kathy, I don't even know if she's home yet. I think she yeah actually she she had to make some lights around outside, um but she probably went got something to eat or did whatever. So she's not in the house right now.

01:37:49.16
Bill
um And I'm sure that maybe, maybe she went out and I'm like, maybe she was getting back, but no, he's just down there. He's like, I've been in the, I've been in the crate.

01:37:56.01
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:37:56.57
Bill
I want to be out and I'm going to, he, and I'm thinking the fuckers got to stop in a minute. Right.

01:38:01.32
Mike
right

01:38:01.38
Bill
But I mean, he was barking for like 10 minutes.

01:38:03.59
Mike
yeah

01:38:05.63
Bill
So, so yeah. So yeah, I, I yelled downstairs, God damn it, knock it off.

01:38:10.83
Mike
Right.

01:38:12.44
Bill
And he did, he's quiet now. So, all right.

01:38:14.17
Mike
Good.

01:38:14.93
Bill
um So that's a, stay tuned. There will be more on, on Charlie Sheen, but yes, I'm not gonna, no promises. I think you'd enjoy it. My friend, Mike, anyone out there, I think you would enjoy a good fucking random train wreck story by a, by a good storyteller.

01:38:23.22
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:38:30.13
Bill
I'm glad you put it that way. Cause that is true.

01:38:31.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:38:31.45
Bill
He is, he's a good storyteller. He is, he is.

01:38:33.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. And he found the solution.

01:38:36.49
Bill
Yeah, he did. And yeah, it took him.

01:38:37.83
Mike
Yeah, he was ah he was on Alan Cox probably a year and a half or so ago, something like that.

01:38:43.53
Bill
really?

01:38:44.18
Mike
Yeah, yeah, you know, just talking.

01:38:44.52
Bill
ah oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:38:45.89
Mike
he was doing ah He was doing a little tour. They were showing Major League, and he was giving a little talk. So, yeah, yeah, So, you know, he went on, and they were talking, and yeah. You know, again, just smart guy, and, you know, yeah, good storyteller, and good stuff.

01:39:03.89
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So, okay. So, um, I think, I don't know. i What do you think? it We're done. We're, we're over whatever time we have.

01:39:11.36
Mike
Right.

01:39:12.22
Bill
and think we're fucking done. Right.

01:39:13.45
Mike
I believe we are.

01:39:14.95
Bill
All right.

01:39:15.58
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober and Not Mature. Hey, as always, be kind to each other.

01:39:27.47
Mike
be good to each other. Go out and do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody that you did it. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eat eternally, fuck you.

01:39:53.01
Mike
Now it's that time, kids. It is time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

01:40:04.04
Mike
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate.

01:40:16.67
Mike
Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.

01:40:25.08
Bill
Slow and steady.

01:40:26.62
Mike
Yup. I had some points to make this week.

01:40:29.82
Bill
Yeah, you did. For the people in the back, listen the fuck up.

01:40:30.74
Mike
Yup.

01:40:33.08
Bill
Listen up.

01:40:33.25
Mike
yepe

01:40:34.07
Bill
Listen up. So.

01:40:36.01
Mike
Don't sit in the back. Go sit up front.

01:40:38.24
Bill
Yeah, God damn it.

01:40:39.35
Mike
Get out of relapse row.

01:40:39.51
Bill
Oh, if I sit.

01:40:40.66
Mike
Yeah,

01:40:41.18
Bill
No, if I sit up in front, isn't that when all the words go over my head? I can't get them. So I got to sit in the back where I can catch them. Is that what I heard?

01:40:46.69
Mike
yeah yeah, yeah. Rationalize and justify anything.

01:40:50.66
Bill
yes So I remember somebody's theories. I said that somebody did say that at a meeting one time when but somebody did that.

01:40:54.00
Mike
Of course they did.

01:40:56.16
Bill
But, oh, just real, real quick. And I didn't bring it up because I didn't want to try to gloat about it. But that did you watch any of the Packer Lions game?

01:41:03.17
Mike
now

01:41:03.81
Bill
Okay. I didn't know because you said you might have it on it on your phone. But the thing of it is um I wasn't even going to –

01:41:06.64
Mike
Right. Well, no, I, I turned it on and I went and got in the shower. i walked out and looked at and went, whoops. And that was all I needed to see.

01:41:17.34
Bill
so but But here's the thing. The Lions, in my opinion, did not play badly.

01:41:20.92
Mike
Hmm.

01:41:20.92
Bill
um The Packers really just played that good.

01:41:22.22
Mike
Hmm.

01:41:22.84
Bill
I was i was kind of fucking blown away by it. I'm like, Jesus Christ, is this really? And then um the same thing they played last night. And again, not not a perfect game. But you know what you got to figure out is that Detroit and in Washington, they're two of the premier and NFC teams and in the league.

01:41:39.33
Bill
And they beat both of them. And I'm just like, God damn, really? So it's i'm I'm more amazed than I am. like I'm not in really a gloating area. i'm just kind of amazed at how well shit kind of fell together.

01:41:47.80
Mike
All right.

01:41:47.97
Bill
um The only thing, though, Dan Campbell, at the end of the game, heless he literally stomped onto the field.

01:41:51.09
Mike
Yeah. Nice.

01:41:55.71
Bill
Which I'm like, come on, dude. I like you. Don't do that. Don't do that. But it's like like a little kid, like, stomp, stomp, stomp, shake, shake, hug, hug, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp. got it on the And I'm like, that fucker's mad. He is fucking mad.

01:42:08.10
Mike
nice

01:42:09.02
Bill
But anyhow, okay. That's it. All right, brother. I love you.

01:42:11.52
Mike
right. I love you too.

01:42:13.08
Bill
Talk to you soon.

01:42:14.20
Mike
all right. Bye.

01:42:17.60
Bill
Bye.