SoberNotMature - Episode 221 (Hanging Around A Heaven Cart)

00:00:01.53
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And yes, yes, yes, we're still nominated. We still haven't found out.

00:00:11.77
Bill
We're still here. We're still fucking cool.

00:00:13.12
Mike
Mmm.

00:00:14.45
Bill
We're all that, all that, and all that in a bag of chips.

00:00:14.88
Mike
Mmm.

00:00:17.33
Bill
Right, Mike?

00:00:18.38
Mike
i've I don't know if I can co-sign that bullshit.

00:00:19.37
Bill
ha ha ha

00:00:23.23
Bill
I know, you had a long day. We're starting a little bit later than whatever the, and I'll say normal in air quotes is, but Mike had a long day, which it's up to him. He can share or he cannot, but usually it just takes you days like today. It'll take you a couple of minutes to kind of ease in and kind of open up a little bit and relax.

00:00:42.16
Bill
ah i've I've got kind of a new segment here I'd like to i like to bust out, so I think that this might bring you a little bit of joy and happiness, if nothing else.

00:00:45.27
Mike
Oh.

00:00:50.04
Bill
but It might bring you a laugh or two. How's that?

00:00:52.92
Mike
All right. Lay it on me.

00:00:53.98
Bill
Okay, so let's let's start out with this. So this is kind of off the cuff. I mean, kind of ah as far as the name. I'm going to go with Sober Not Mature Crime Blotter. Okay? Now, the reason that you don't know about it is you, my friend, are the subject of this crime blotter.

00:01:10.81
Bill
hey

00:01:12.82
Mike
not today

00:01:14.07
Bill
Well, I've got a couple of questions for you, so we will determine that.

00:01:18.04
Mike
no Okay.

00:01:18.10
Bill
Damn it.

00:01:18.72
Mike
All right. a jerk Jury of my peers.

00:01:19.67
Bill
Remember, you're... you're you're You're still under oath, by the way, from whatever, okay? Okay, first first question. Isn't it true that you have, if nothing else, I'll say at a minimum, a dislike?

00:01:32.22
Mike
ah Leading. Leading. Isn't it true? i don't know.

00:01:34.87
Bill
Okay.

00:01:34.98
Mike
Maybe it's not fucking true.

00:01:36.76
Bill
Okay, is it true? Can I start off with that or just ask the question? Do not start

00:01:39.99
Mike
Just ask the fucking question. Stop leading the witness.

00:01:44.42
Bill
Your honor.

00:01:44.68
Mike
I... i

00:01:46.01
Bill
Permission to treat as a hostile witness.

00:01:48.34
Mike
Yeah, goddamn right.

00:01:48.57
Bill
God damn.

00:01:49.74
Mike
You should have known that walking into it.

00:01:49.90
Bill
Okay. Okay, so here's here's my question.

00:01:53.98
Mike
Yes. Yes,

00:01:55.10
Bill
Do you have, at a minimum, a dislike, possibly at a maximum, extreme disdain for the individual Eric Clapton?

00:02:03.67
Mike
her her yes i do.

00:02:07.00
Bill
Okay, so now that we're going back, that's where the is it true came in. But again, i I was leading you because I knew what the answer was going to be. but so But you're right, though. You're right. So I take back my my is it true part.

00:02:15.09
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:02:16.96
Bill
I wasn't trying to lead you. but so So first one is yes. um Second question.

00:02:19.69
Mike
Yes.

00:02:21.32
Bill
If nothing else, I believe, I think, over the years, you've at least envisioned harm on Mr.

00:02:23.25
Mike
Yes. Yes.

00:02:29.40
Bill
Clapton. Is that?

00:02:30.58
Mike
ah um Sure, why not?

00:02:35.00
Bill
Okay, just that's.

00:02:35.19
Mike
I mean, not not actively and and whatever, but, you know, because I...

00:02:38.78
Bill
Right. Yeah, you're not going to go out and beat the hell out of them.

00:02:39.29
Mike
No.

00:02:40.62
Bill
But, you know, just that's why I said envisioned, you know, hypothetical, a story, you know.

00:02:40.76
Mike
No. You know, if he fell and broke his hip, I wouldn't be sad about it. Yeah.

00:02:48.72
Bill
Okay. Okay. So, so good. So we got those two out of the way. Third question. I believe it might have been, I could be wrong on the dates here, but I think it was early 80s.

00:02:52.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:57.21
Bill
um You, my friend, mr Mr. Harris there, were at a concert with an opening band and there was a musician and you, if I'm not mistaken, I could be wrong though,

00:03:00.28
Mike
yeah

00:03:07.39
Bill
flung something at this musician. was the lead singer at the time, I think. I won't say what that something is, but you flung something at a musician, correct?

00:03:13.18
Mike
i but Yes, I did. Well, musician is a stretch, but yes.

00:03:14.62
Bill
hey Sorry. the The individual that was posing, and I'll say this, as the lead singer of this particular band, correct?

00:03:20.28
Mike
it The haircut? Yes, I i did.

00:03:23.90
Bill
here

00:03:26.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:26.46
Bill
Okay. And the item, which was a penny, if I'm not mistaken, hit Mr.

00:03:30.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:32.21
Bill
Jon Bon Jovi directly in the head. Am I correct?

00:03:34.89
Mike
You are correct, sir. Yes.

00:03:36.54
Bill
Okay, so now that we've got we've got the base here, let's let's go into the into the actual crime. You ready? Hang on.

00:03:42.49
Mike
Yes. Sure, why not? Uh-huh.

00:03:46.97
Bill
On May 7, 2026, legendary. Okay, I'll take that out of there.

00:03:50.49
Mike
and

00:03:51.97
Bill
musician I'll take that out of there. On May 7, 2026, Eric Clapton. Can we agree on that part? The date's right and his name.

00:03:57.82
Mike
i sure i why not

00:04:00.79
Bill
Okay. um had abruptly um and Had to abruptly end this concert in Madrid, Spain after being struck in the chest by a vinyl record thrown from the crowd. Okay. Now, to begin with, they were saying, and this says it later, but that it was a vinyl sleeve, but they think that the record was actually in there.

00:04:15.56
Bill
So, you know, like a regular, probably like an LP. I don't know if it was a full album, whatever, but whatever.

00:04:18.94
Mike
yes

00:04:20.92
Bill
So the 81, this fucker's 81, 81 year old, again, they say artist.

00:04:23.45
Mike
eighty piece

00:04:26.66
Bill
I'll take that word out of here.

00:04:27.61
Mike
yes uh-huh

00:04:28.42
Bill
81 year old skipped his planned encore, but was not injured. Okay.

00:04:33.11
Mike
yeah right hmm yeah what we are supposedly sober right

00:04:33.21
Bill
So further, furthermore, he had just finished performing cocaine, the song, not the item. I don't think. He was is walking across the stage to acknowledge the crowd's applause when he was hit by what appeared to be the vinyl record sleeve.

00:04:49.19
Bill
Startled.

00:04:50.39
Mike
Mmm.

00:04:50.97
Bill
The guitarist. so he Okay, God, I probably got to take that word out of there.

00:04:53.45
Mike
Yep. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay.

00:04:54.53
Bill
I apologize.

00:04:54.94
Mike
yelp

00:04:55.83
Bill
I've just put in Mr. Clapton. So Mr.

00:04:57.46
Mike
yes

00:04:58.29
Bill
Clapton briefly paused before walking off the stage because of the incident. He did not return to play his customary encore. Clapton did not appear to be injured, blah, blah, blah. But it says in the broader context, this incident is part of a widely criticized trend of audience members throwing objects at performers during live shows.

00:05:16.57
Bill
ah Musicians such as whatever's, you know, in their struck by fan thrown at him.

00:05:16.76
Mike
okay

00:05:20.05
Mike
aha

00:05:21.57
Bill
So just the funniest thing that, so, and if you want, I know, I know number one for a fact, because at some point I was just kind of waiting for a lead in, and here it is, you know, for after all these years, you know, that we've been doing this podcast, but I was almost waiting for like a comfortable lead in where if you choose to tell your Eric Clapton story or the time when I somehow you and i had a conversation about Eric Clapton.

00:05:44.34
Bill
um But the thing of it is, is that since that time frame, which I believe we might have been at the Keating Center still, um you know, so I mean, I don't know between we were probably somewhere between zero to seven months sober and probably more like three to seven, because this at this point you and I had had a a start of a relationship and a friendship and whatever.

00:05:50.94
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:05:58.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:03.99
Mike
Right? Mm-hmm.

00:06:05.53
Bill
And the way it started, however it started, this his name came up and and you fucking went off because just the day but the name Eric Clapton went off and and you went off.

00:06:08.25
Mike
Mm. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

00:06:16.13
Bill
And I can say my recollection or do you want to share the story at all?

00:06:19.77
Mike
No, no.

00:06:20.14
Bill
Yeah.

00:06:20.29
Mike
look Go ahead.

00:06:21.40
Bill
Okay, so it was something along the lines. um I think fucking Hack was in there. Worst guitarist ever.

00:06:26.90
Mike
sure.

00:06:28.04
Bill
um I wish he were dead.

00:06:28.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:30.04
Bill
It should have been him that fell out the window instead of his child.

00:06:30.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:33.20
Bill
um It was all in through this entire conversation.

00:06:33.30
Mike
Yelp. i fifty

00:06:35.88
Bill
I can barely breathe. I'm laughing so hard. And I'm like, I'm like, why do you feel that way? Do you like, because he's a fucking guy. You just start going off again. I'm like, i'm like holy hey I'm like, hang on a minute.

00:06:44.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:06:46.17
Bill
I'm like, I'm not disagreeing with you or agreeing with you. I don't give a fuck one way or the other.

00:06:49.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:51.22
Bill
I just want to know. I'm like, I think it's fucking hilarious. And I don't know that I ever really got an answer. Just that it's everything you just said. You thought he was overrated and hack and whatever.

00:07:00.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:00.46
Bill
Am I, am I correct and all that stuff?

00:07:01.98
Mike
Yeah, 100%.

00:07:02.02
Bill
Or yes, yes, no. Okay. And the the funniest part is, you know, and so you got to figure this was in year one of our of our journey in this whole sobriety thing.

00:07:11.30
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:07:12.31
Bill
And, you know, Mike and I know and each other, which is literally, um you know, somewhere, I mean, 15 and a half years ago, you know, um every time that I that i hear an Eric Clapton song, Every time I see his face, every time i anytime, anything with that individual comes up, I cannot help but think of you, you know, and, and usually kind of laugh and chuckle in, in whatever the case is.

00:07:18.01
Mike
Right. yeah

00:07:21.53
Mike
you

00:07:29.30
Mike
he

00:07:33.47
Bill
I never cared one way or the other. I didn't have this thing. It's not one of those bands that I'm like, I don't give a fuck what you think. I think he's great. Um, I don't care one way or the other. It's like, there's certain music that has, has had a place in my life.

00:07:44.90
Bill
And Eric Clapton songs have, have been in and out of my life for a number of years.

00:07:45.27
Mike
a

00:07:49.10
Bill
Um, I don't care what, One way or the other.

00:07:49.24
Mike
Sure.

00:07:52.29
Bill
And that's why um everyone that that's listened to us for a while, when I bring up artists, that's why I do it. I'm looking for the reaction again.

00:07:59.64
Mike
<unk>

00:07:59.97
Bill
It's almost like looking for that first high, you know, which I'm never going to get again.

00:08:02.42
Mike
Right. Right. You're not.

00:08:03.96
Bill
um' i don't i don't i don't think I'll ever get that type of um vehement, I'll say, reaction.

00:08:09.62
Mike
No. Blue hot hatred.

00:08:13.24
Bill
yeah And it was it was so goddamn funny, but there's when that's why when when my friend over there, Mike, just is like, you know, how would you think about this, ah you know, pick your pick whatever artist, and he's like, eh.

00:08:19.64
Mike
if you

00:08:24.01
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:08:25.43
Bill
And I'm like, that's it. no no No up, no down.

00:08:26.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:08:28.71
Bill
he's ah And you're like, eh. or it's a meh, or if it's a whatever, it's it's nothing.

00:08:30.04
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:08:33.46
Bill
when you know And you're like, oh, they're cool. Or you know then you if it's a band you really like, obviously would see Alice Cooper Group, or you know pick pick another one, Rival Sons, let's say.

00:08:38.43
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:08:42.87
Mike
True.

00:08:43.35
Bill
i mean, you'll go in and you'll explain in detail you know what's so great about whatever it is.

00:08:46.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:46.99
Bill
you know um But again, you're not like a fucking schoolgirl, but you will you will put forth your, guess, maybe a little bit, but you'll put forth your, you know it again, your ear enthusiasm shows.

00:08:51.73
Mike
Well, sometimes I am. exactly

00:08:59.09
Bill
but

00:08:59.13
Mike
he

00:09:00.60
Bill
if there's a band you don't like, I mean, a lot of times these days it's just, it's, so it's, I'll never get that again. I'll, you know, but I'll never, I'll never forget it either.

00:09:06.29
Mike
No, you never will.

00:09:10.52
Bill
And, but with this one, I'm like, I'm like, there is not, i don't, I can't say never. I would find it really hard to believe that there will ever be a story that will line up so well as this one.

00:09:22.60
Bill
you know Because, again, it's Eric Lampton.

00:09:23.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:09:25.00
Bill
He got hit with something. Somebody threw something at him. All these things that that you know you're kind of intertwined in this. I'm like, where the fuck were you on March 7th? No, May 7th. You weren't in this goddamn Spain.

00:09:35.40
Bill
Were you a week ago?

00:09:36.38
Mike
Mm-hmm. No, I was not.

00:09:36.47
Bill
Yeah.

00:09:38.33
Mike
ah have an alibi.

00:09:40.28
Bill
Right. But I mean, it's just everything lined up. I think if, ah you know, if any of these, you know, law enforcement folks or whoever would have seen a bald guy that looked like you in the audience, you might've gotten arrested recently.

00:09:49.17
Mike
Right? Mm-hmm.

00:09:51.12
Bill
Dude, you know, we've heard some things, but no, it was just fucking funny. But I, You know what? And I, um I, I don't know that I, I didn't know he was 81 years old and, you know, part of like, Jesus Christ, this fucking old dude, man.

00:10:04.93
Bill
I mean, a lot of these guys that are out there doing their thing and it's fine. You heard the Rolling Stones are releasing a new album, right?

00:10:10.71
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:10:11.35
Bill
And, and,

00:10:11.39
Mike
It's out already. Yep.

00:10:12.57
Bill
Oh, is it? Oh, okay. I didn't know it was actually out already, but they, um, same thing.

00:10:15.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:10:16.33
Bill
The, the morning show I listened to, they got this dude from, he's actually from Detroit. Uh, he's a music guy that, um, they have on every week.

00:10:20.95
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:10:22.21
Bill
His name is Gary Graff. don't know if you ever heard, heard the name before, but, um, very interesting, very knowledgeable. And, um, you know, they have, they've had him on every, every week for fucking years.

00:10:32.10
Bill
Um, But so he brought it up and he was talking about it.

00:10:32.46
Mike
Right.

00:10:34.82
Bill
He he was actually saying, and I heard, i was listening to to it in the background. I haven't really listened to the music, but apparently they're getting, these new songs are getting, you know, decent reviews as far as that.

00:10:45.29
Mike
Right.

00:10:45.79
Bill
You know, and they said that, you know, I guess both Mick and Keith Richards are like, yeah, know we're not we're not getting on the road this year, you know, for the rest of the year, but we may, may next year.

00:10:51.65
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:10:54.63
Bill
But I mean, what, Mick Jagger's 80-some, right?

00:10:58.20
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:58.52
Bill
Keith Richards, 80-some? Yeah.

00:11:00.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:11:00.83
Bill
the fucker that, that dude, these other fucking people are dying. It's like, how is he still alive? You know i know it's always the joke, but I mean, seriously, you know, but, um,

00:11:09.30
Mike
Right? Yeah. i Because, you know, he's fucking superhuman.

00:11:14.46
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. Some, yeah. Some people in, what was it, you know, George Burns, wasn't he smoking cigars up until his, you know, the day he died, I think, you know, and I think he was still drinking if I'm not mistaken.

00:11:20.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:23.62
Bill
I mean, just, ah you know, maybe, I mean, who knows, you know, certain people can, can handle it until, until they, until forever, you know, I mean, ah it's, you know, had two things.

00:11:28.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:11:31.44
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:11:34.68
Bill
I mean, you know obviously I need to quit, needed to quit drinking and then my, my heart about gave out on me. So, you know, I, I couldn't have done either one and I'm not even close to fucking 81 years old yet. So, But yeah, I mean, I guess the the only thing that I'll say, it has nothing to do with Eric Clapton, but um I don't want to be walking along anywhere and get hit in the chest with a a final record in a sleeve like that.

00:11:50.23
Mike
Good.

00:11:56.90
Mike
Eh. Eh. Whatever. I mean, how bad is that going to hurt?

00:12:01.56
Bill
I don't know, but that that's the point, you know, those little things like that, you know, depending on the the velocity, just that little point hits right at the right place, wherever on your chest.

00:12:08.28
Mike
Eh, yeah, yeah. yeah Whatever. Alright.

00:12:10.68
Bill
I'm just saying, I don't want to get hit up, but i'm ah I'm like, if I, if I make it to 81.

00:12:12.82
Mike
So, I saw...

00:12:14.40
Bill
Right.

00:12:15.03
Mike
yeah, Whatever. Fuck him. Pussy. um So, I saw a Cheap Trick open for Kiss in 1979. Rick Nelson...

00:12:23.58
Bill
right

00:12:24.50
Mike
rick nelson Nielsen, whatever. um took a bottle to the head when he had like four guitars around his neck, right?

00:12:31.29
Bill
oh

00:12:34.80
Mike
Yeah, he was doing that thing where he had a bunch of guitars hanging from was playing different ones at different points and whatever, took a bottle to the head, went down, went off stage, you know, the roadies came out, got the guitars off of them, went down, went off stage for like three minutes, came back out with another guitar strapped on them and finished the fucking show.

00:12:34.94
Bill
Right.

00:12:58.23
Mike
That's how you do it.

00:12:59.83
Bill
Yeah, well, you you remember Dave Grohl fell off that stage, broke his leg, and he just wanted it to be taken back up and started again.

00:13:03.32
Mike
Right.

00:13:05.87
Bill
But they're like, no, we got to go.

00:13:06.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:06.87
Bill
We got to go have this put in like a balloon cast or whatever the thing it was.

00:13:09.40
Mike
Right.

00:13:10.14
Bill
So they actually had to ambulance him, know, back and forth to the hospital to get this thing. But he literally brought the doctor back and he's like, you you're going to sit on stage with me and hold my leg. And, you know, he yeah he finished the concert, which I remember when it happened.

00:13:18.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:21.54
Bill
And then yeah yeah he ah talked about that, I mean, extensively in his book that I listened to. But, um but yeah, so, so yeah, clap to get hit with a hook. Okay. I'm going to take, i get your point.

00:13:32.82
Mike
a record in the chest.

00:13:33.98
Bill
He took a, ya he took a record, took a record to the chest and then wouldn't, wouldn't come out and do his encore. Cause he was, he was sad.

00:13:39.47
Mike
Uh-huh. Because he's a pussy.

00:13:41.24
Bill
Cause he's a pussy and he was sad. Okay. Okay.

00:13:43.11
Mike
Yep.

00:13:43.52
Bill
I'm i'm not going argue with you again.

00:13:45.05
Mike
All right.

00:13:45.13
Bill
I'm not going to argue with it and argue with you then. you know But yeah, I just, ah by the bottom line with this is that I just don't think that we will ever run across a story again that lines up that fucking well.

00:13:57.08
Bill
That's that's all i that's all I got to say. So anyhow, so that's so that might be the only the only ah release of that segment because I don't know that anything's ever going to fit the mold again.

00:14:06.20
Mike
oh

00:14:07.19
Bill
But man, i had I had fun with it. So I hope you did too.

00:14:11.06
Mike
Sure. All right. Can the witness be excused now?

00:14:14.10
Bill
Yeah, you're you're excused. You're excused and you're ah you're pardoned, I guess I would say.

00:14:15.61
Mike
all right.

00:14:18.38
Bill
How's that?

00:14:19.73
Mike
Sure. Can I get that writing?

00:14:20.89
Bill
All right. so Yeah. Hi. Yeah. You got here. Want me to text you something?

00:14:24.15
Mike
Good. Sure. anyway Pardon me.

00:14:25.52
Bill
You're pardoned, you little fucker. but But yeah, pardon me. but uh yeah that's ah that's all i got people go i get other shit obviously but that's all i got to open with i thought that yeah we started late and we ended early 14 minutes and 43 seconds as we speak so but uh yeah i mean i don't know do you feel you feel like even if you don't i know about the feelings thing but uh if you have a reading available i'd be

00:14:34.14
Mike
a All right. Well, hey, good night, everybody. Yeah. if Yeah.

00:14:51.00
Mike
No. I don't feel like doing a podcast. I don't feel like doing anything. Uh-huh. But yes, I have a reading. um I don't know how good it's going to be because it was from this morning and I seem to recall about 14 days ago when I read this this morning um that it was kind of halfway all right. So we'll see.

00:15:15.43
Bill
All

00:15:15.77
Mike
All right. ah This is ah from Touchstones as usual. May 15th. ah ah Yeah, here we go. Yeah. If you can't fight and you can't flee, Jesus Christ, see, I can't even fight And you can't read and you and you can't talk.

00:15:32.25
Bill
right. All right.

00:15:37.24
Mike
a if you can't fight and you can't flee, flow. Somebody named Robert Elliott. All right. Too often, we men or women or people or whoever have lived with a single answer to every situation, when.

00:15:57.50
Mike
We saw our friendships in competitive terms, so we couldn't let our guard down. We looked at life as a challenge to be conquered rather than something to be enjoyed.

00:16:09.86
Mike
Therefore, our first impulse was to fight and come out a winner. Many of us have played life like a game with only winners and losers, and we have neglected the deeper meaning in our experiences.

00:16:24.60
Mike
Living that way, many of us have felt like losers. We all experience moments when a situation is more powerful than we are. These moments feel like defeat unless we allow them to open to open a whole new viewpoint on our lives.

00:16:43.83
Mike
When we can flow with a situation, which will have its own way anyhow, we have become more mature people. We can breathe a sigh of relief because much of the tension in our lives is reduced when we stop trying to conquer every moment and instead simply flow with it.

00:17:04.82
Mike
The touchstones, thought of the day, or whatever the hell it is Today I will practice playing a new game of flowing and thereby deepen my awareness of life

00:17:19.22
Bill
So um that, ah no I know I was just making a quick note on one thing, but so with this seed, the last thing talked about a new, it said a new game of flowing with life, life flow, flow, flow.

00:17:24.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:30.23
Mike
Yeah, today i will practice playing a new game of flowing and thereby deepen my awareness of life.

00:17:38.05
Bill
Okay. So, um, I guess first of all, cause I talked about that, know, obviously back and forth, the flow with, and I mean, the first three things were either fight, flee or flow, which yeah, I was left by as someone you're like, if you can't fight, you can't play, you can't breed.

00:17:43.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:47.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:51.13
Mike
okay

00:17:53.91
Mike
Yep.

00:17:54.81
Bill
um but so what do you think about that? I mean, um, two things, I guess when you, cause I'll just, I guess I won't put your words in your mouth. Do you feel like that's the way you operate now or did it take you time to get to that way, like flowing through with life or or how do you feel about that?

00:18:03.42
Mike
Hmm.

00:18:09.98
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, um it comes back to trying to control fucking everything like we do.

00:18:17.98
Bill
Right.

00:18:19.74
Mike
You know, which I still absolutely deal with, um you know, but to a lesser degree, certainly.

00:18:20.03
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:18:27.78
Mike
um Yeah, I like to think I flow fairly well these days. um You know, I mean, I still, you know, I...

00:18:38.50
Mike
clearly flow better when things are flowing my way uh right but um you know yeah i i certainly you know um recognize when i'm trying to swim against the current and um and realize how futile it is um again doesn't stop me from doing it occasionally but um

00:18:43.53
Bill
All Yeah.

00:19:02.46
Mike
Yeah. You know, I, the control, the power, right. Serenity prayer, basic shit, you know?

00:19:08.26
Bill
Right.

00:19:08.62
Mike
um Yeah. You know, I mean, there are some things that I can change and mean some things that I can control. And, but for the most part, I can't. um And I realized that today.

00:19:19.65
Mike
And again, always looking for the easier, softer way. Cause that's what we do. um You know, and the easier, softer way is to stop trying to control shit that we can't control.

00:19:25.21
Bill
ah

00:19:31.34
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, I know that. Well, and you said, like you said, you know, fighting against the curtain and things like that. I mean, I think there's there are certain times when that's just I mean, that's just dealing with life.

00:19:43.76
Bill
You know, we where we are fighting against a current that's that's coming our way and we're to have to have to deal with this sort of thing.

00:19:46.58
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:19:49.52
Bill
But, you know, there's a huge difference in, you know, things coming our way like that was you know being forced to deal with the situation and being able to thankfully now.

00:19:57.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:19:59.09
Bill
Um, you know, with a little bit of help, obviously in knowledge and all background and experience and all those things. But, um, but to literally, I mean, to choose to go against the grain and fight against the flow and all that sort of things, it's, man, it's, it's just a fucking waste of, like you always say, was it waste of goddamn calories, man.

00:20:16.20
Mike
Yep.

00:20:17.13
Bill
You know?

00:20:17.46
Mike
Absolutely.

00:20:17.81
Bill
And I mean, like you said, things, things are so much easier when life is flowing with me. Yeah.

00:20:23.48
Mike
Yes. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

00:20:24.98
Bill
That made me laugh because I was like, you know, part me is like the dub. But of course, I mean, it's got to be said, you know, you got to say, well, of course.

00:20:30.06
Mike
ahha

00:20:31.58
Bill
Well, yeah, but yeah, you got to say it, you know, um because all of us wish for that.

00:20:33.91
Mike
here

00:20:36.41
Bill
But I mean, it's it's everyone else. i Not everyone else. There are a lot of people in this world that just expect. this shit to flow with them.

00:20:46.69
Bill
And when it doesn't, then that's the people that, you know, lose their minds or argue, or, you know, they're the ones that are fighting back or, you know, complaining all the time and life's life's bullshit.

00:20:47.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:51.50
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:20:57.02
Bill
And, you know, 2026, oh my God, the year's halfway over. Thank God, you know, or going into the brand new year, like we were talking about, it still fucking blows my mind that people were, the calendar was barely fucking turned.

00:21:01.85
Mike
All right.

00:21:10.14
Bill
Like, well, here we go again.

00:21:10.23
Mike
Mm-hmm. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:21:12.03
Bill
know, it's years. Oh yeah. 25 fucked me in. This one's already been to be over for another year. Well, Oh, fine. You know? And I mean, granted, we can all look at it because but it's been like this for a couple of years now.

00:21:24.24
Bill
Now, really bad, you know, when it comes to the gas prices and everything else that's expensive.

00:21:29.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:29.21
Bill
The gas prices are fucking crazy, you know?

00:21:31.48
Mike
Yep.

00:21:31.85
Bill
But what the fuck are you going to do, you know?

00:21:33.91
Mike
Right.

00:21:34.21
Bill
I mean, if you if either two things, if you have to get someplace, well, got to make a fucking choice, you know?

00:21:39.10
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:21:40.98
Bill
Or if you don't want to go out of your fucking mind just sitting someplace and doing nothing, know?

00:21:46.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:46.67
Bill
I don't go a lot of places now, you know, but, um, you know, last weekend and I'll probably do it again, you know, this weekend, if it's nice, you know, I will drive an hour away to go, to go to a a place, you know, and because it's nice and it's peaceful.

00:21:48.24
Mike
Right.

00:21:56.40
Mike
Right.

00:21:58.58
Bill
And so I spend a couple of bucks to do it. You know, maybe it costs me $20, you know, to do whatever, but you know what?

00:22:01.35
Mike
Right.

00:22:05.85
Bill
$20 for my, for my, and that's what it is. It's, it's my therapy.

00:22:08.67
Mike
Right,

00:22:09.98
Bill
It's my meditation. It's my peace of mind. It's, it's my opportunity to get out there and, you know, and again, whatever, i don't know, go with my own little flow, you know, get away from fucking, you know, if there is things that are weighing on me, i was going to say, get away from people, but yeah, that's, that is part of it.

00:22:26.39
Mike
me right, right.

00:22:26.68
Bill
You know, and I don't mean people here, you know, I mean, Kathy, nothing wrong with it.

00:22:29.75
Mike
right right right

00:22:30.04
Bill
people around me, but you know, I don't want to go to a fucking mall. You know, I is, is what I mean.

00:22:34.23
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:22:35.42
Bill
I'd rather go out, you know, just be out in nature, you know? Um, but yeah, trying to, I mean, the, the days of, of actively fighting against shit.

00:22:45.06
Mike
hmm.

00:22:45.26
Bill
Um, it just, it makes me tired just thinking about it, you know?

00:22:45.59
Mike
Right.

00:22:51.48
Mike
Exactly. Exactly.

00:22:53.18
Bill
yeah

00:22:53.25
Mike
And I mean, you know, right. um You know, we have to, I have to be careful. i don't have to be careful. I'm not. um No, but I mean, you know, if, if the, you know, if whatever this flow is, you know, we've got to make sure it's not taking us in the wrong direction.

00:23:01.58
Bill
Oh,

00:23:09.47
Mike
You know, there are times where we have to, you know, stand and let it pass by us.

00:23:09.95
Bill
yeah, yeah, right.

00:23:14.91
Mike
um You know, there' there's a difference. um Yes, there will be things flowing against me um and I have to stand still and maybe fight against it a little bit, not go with it because it's fucking wrong.

00:23:27.96
Mike
you know whatever i have to make sure I'm going in the right direction no matter what. And if that takes a little extra energy to maintain going in the right direction, that's fine. That's that's the difference with that.

00:23:39.60
Mike
But I think what the reading's talking about is, you know yeah, again, you know like we're talking about, you know the nonsense of everyday life and and and you know trying to get our way and trying to control things and and all of that is a waste of fucking time.

00:23:56.00
Bill
Right. Well, and I talked to begin with, too, about, you know, ah playing life like a like a game, you know, and I mean, I suppose I can look at that two different ways. I understand the way that they looked at it because they said it, you know, playing it like a like a game where there's only in that.

00:24:10.41
Bill
I think they were.

00:24:10.59
Mike
Winners and losers.

00:24:11.58
Bill
Yeah, I think that world was you were the word only was in there.

00:24:12.24
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:14.42
Bill
you know But, I mean, life life is – I mean, to me, life's a game of sorts because games are fun.

00:24:14.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:20.82
Bill
you know And life life should be fun.

00:24:21.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:22.74
Bill
And if you're not out here you know playing the game in a positive way – and i mean I think that's important. I've got to say in a positive way, um I don't necessarily want to beat somebody –

00:24:31.93
Mike
Hmm.

00:24:32.15
Bill
Except for myself, you know, you see those, those motivational sayings, which they're fucking corny, but you know, the only one I want i want to be better than today is my, you know, the, the person I was yesterday, which again, you know, it's a, it's a whatever hallmark, not a hallmark, but you know what mean?

00:24:33.69
Mike
Right.

00:24:37.13
Mike
hmm.

00:24:41.85
Mike
Right.

00:24:46.25
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:46.39
Bill
It's just a fucking corny ass saying that everyone uses, but it is true.

00:24:47.05
Mike
No.

00:24:50.90
Bill
You know, I don't, I don't need to beat somebody, you know, I don't, I don't need to certainly not.

00:24:51.33
Mike
Mm

00:24:55.14
Bill
I mean, you and i we don't have to be that competitive under over anything, um and anyone else it's still it's that it's that danger of that we talk about the social media and where people are at in life and and all those sort of things and realizing that you know social media is just it's a highlight reel and it's it's only the best of the best it's it's somebody dressing up and going to your your normal individual dressing up and going to church on sunday And that's Instagram is church.

00:24:58.44
Mike
hmm. Right.

00:25:21.88
Mike
Right.

00:25:24.17
Bill
Everyone in church on Sunday, yeah you know, that's sitting there and they're praying and they're singing and, you know, they got on there. They got literally their Sunday best. And then, you know, every other goddamn day of the week, they're out doing who do who knows fucking what, you know.

00:25:37.13
Mike
Right.

00:25:37.45
Bill
um But um so so the danger of getting and getting involved in that trap, but just in general, looking at where anyone is, any one of us is on ah on a particular day.

00:25:41.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:47.00
Bill
And, you know, it's the what ifs and it's getting into that fucking game. And that, again, not only waste of time, but that, you said it before, it's fucking dangerous, right?

00:25:54.95
Mike
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And I mean, in in the reading kind of talked about, you know, um always having to win. I mean, if if you're always winning, are you going to learn any lessons?

00:26:06.61
Mike
You know, I mean, losing teaches you shit and you got to be open to that.

00:26:10.57
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:26:11.53
Mike
You know, you talked about social media and, you know, I've always got to be right my way or the highway and maybe we're over. But um right but if you how are you going to learn anything if if you don't admit you're wrong occasionally you know how are you going to change and evolve if if everything is right in my way and and this is the only way and yeah you know i've have to win or i'm going to lose you know and if i lose then i'm a loser if if i if i don't win if i lose then i maybe was doing it wrong and Maybe I can learn something from that and maybe do it better and more right next time.

00:26:26.19
Bill
Right.

00:26:39.56
Bill
Right.

00:26:54.01
Bill
Right, yeah. And, you know, I mean, who's who's to say what, you know, I mean, so losing what, you know, or or not being completely right at what?

00:27:00.02
Mike
mean

00:27:01.56
Bill
who's Who's the judge of that, you know, really?

00:27:01.75
Mike
Right. Right.

00:27:03.96
Bill
Is that, I mean, the things that the things that I do versus the things that that you do versus the things that, you know, all these, let's say, ah again, anyone out in the and the world does, who's to say that unless unless we're, there's laws of society, don't get me wrong. mean, I get all that stuff, you know, but who's to say that that that particular way over there is Well, that's the vision of success. Well, for that fucking person, but I don't want that.

00:27:29.11
Bill
yeah You know, I mean, whatever whatever that thing is over there, you know, this this beautiful thing that they that they put together, I have no fucking desire to do that, but that makes that makes that person over there happy.

00:27:29.37
Mike
Exactly.

00:27:40.47
Bill
What makes me happy is, you know I got, I mean, all my my worldly possessions with the exception what's in this room here I'm sitting in, you know, we're in a, you know, fucking 10 by 15 storage unit in Germantown, Wisconsin.

00:27:50.74
Mike
Right.

00:27:51.13
Bill
I don't give a fuck. But then look around you, walk around your house.

00:27:52.44
Mike
Right.

00:27:54.61
Bill
You know, you have how many 10 by 15 storage units you think you could fit in your house?

00:27:58.94
Mike
ah Quite a few, yes.

00:27:59.13
Bill
A lot. You know, and, and you would, you could fill up a number of them and, but all of your shit. And I keep, so I keep bringing it up because it comes up in these certain circumstances and I 100% agree with it and believe it.

00:28:11.80
Mike
Right.

00:28:14.93
Bill
It's fucking cool stuff. You got a lot of shit.

00:28:16.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:16.85
Bill
Don't get me wrong, but it's all fucking cool stuff.

00:28:17.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:19.05
Bill
And it all has meaning, you know, you don't just fill your house because you're like, well, think I need more fucking garbage.

00:28:20.66
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:24.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:26.45
Bill
no.

00:28:26.62
Mike
I think I need another chandelier.

00:28:30.94
Bill
Well, I'm sure though, if you saw a chandelier that had some sort of background and meaning you'd buy a fucking chandelier.

00:28:33.14
Mike
oh ye

00:28:36.22
Bill
I mean, I, I don't doubt that, you know, um but you wouldn't just go out buy a chandelier because, well, look at, I looked over at the neighbor, the neighbor's house and they got a chandelier.

00:28:36.38
Mike
I probably would. huh

00:28:43.35
Mike
who

00:28:44.79
Bill
So I guess I got to get one, you know, it's not that, you know.

00:28:44.98
Mike
o Right. No.

00:28:48.25
Bill
But um I don't know. There's just so much of the competitiveness in this whole fucking you know world and in all that stuff.

00:28:53.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:28:53.93
Bill
It's just ridiculous. But in the other couple of things I wrote down was, well, win only. we We know we talked about, obviously, we talked about that already. But um it talked about never letting our guard down, you know always being or trying or

00:29:02.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:08.79
Bill
I think it it said stop trying to conquer. So assuming that we're always out there, we at certain points always out there trying to conquer, you know, a situation or or that sort of thing that in and of itself.

00:29:14.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:29:19.75
Bill
I mean, I know I was that way. Were you that way before getting sober, trying to just be the conqueror of everything? And don't mean like physical, but I mean, in that sense, do you think you were?

00:29:27.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:28.77
Bill
Right.

00:29:29.05
Mike
Um, yeah, probably to an extent. I don't know.

00:29:32.21
Bill
Right.

00:29:32.29
Mike
I can't, you know, um, I i don't know. I just want to to be loaded, but I mean, yes, in, in small little, ah clearly I had to, again, be in charge, quote unquote, there's my air quotes, you know, be in charge and running the show and, you know, like all the shit the book talks about, you know, being the director and, you know, arranging the actors and the sets and all that shit.

00:29:37.82
Bill
hey Right.

00:29:45.94
Bill
right

00:29:56.53
Mike
So to that extent, absolutely.

00:29:59.42
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's, so I mean, those those things, I mean, quite honestly, we're probably in that, I mean, for me, know, I was always that way. And, you know, obviously more, I think more of an egotist.

00:30:10.01
Bill
I think I can say that, you know, certainly I was more, and even now, you know, obviously more of an egotist than than you are or you were.

00:30:16.18
Mike
this is

00:30:16.21
Bill
And I don't know why, you know, probably it just, it just is what it is. I mean, I don't, I don't think I, I truly, it's not like I can literally look at myself and be like, well, well, look, you You know, like stand, stand next to you and go like, well, look at you and look at me there.

00:30:26.65
Mike
right too

00:30:30.42
Bill
There's nothing there. There was never anything ever. And I mean, fucking ever in my life where I could have just sat back and be like, well, I mean, yeah why wouldn't I be an egotist?

00:30:40.43
Bill
You know?

00:30:40.85
Mike
Right. Right.

00:30:41.43
Bill
So I, I guess I've never thought about that.

00:30:41.69
Mike
Right.

00:30:43.23
Bill
I don't even know where the fuck it came from. You know, was it, was it learned behavior? um I mean, mom was a little bit of an egotist, but I think she did that out of her survival mode.

00:30:51.99
Mike
right

00:30:52.02
Bill
You know, I think. Um, I mean, my dad, he was a fucking raging lunatic egotist. Um, you know, and I don't know where that came from either, you know, but I mean, granted both of us clearly are, you know, of the same cloth when it comes to the alcoholic cloth, you know, but, um, our grandpa, I mean, like, so his dad, I i don't, I'm pretty sure that he was not grandma on, you know, my dad's mom.

00:31:06.39
Mike
hey

00:31:15.71
Bill
Um, she was not that way.

00:31:15.89
Mike
Right. Right.

00:31:17.76
Bill
She's like the fucking sweetest human being on earth. So i I don't know.

00:31:19.99
Mike
Right.

00:31:20.43
Bill
I have no idea. there's no reason in the world. I mean, I've known people in my, in my life, like back in, you know, school days and stuff like that, that, you know, they came from, you know, wealthy families and had, you know, had everything like, and maybe even had everything handed to them and stuff like that.

00:31:31.93
Mike
right

00:31:34.15
Bill
So, Maybe it's more understandable of that individual, you know, has that, has that complex, you know, or that egotism, but I've never really thought about even where it came from.

00:31:38.65
Mike
is

00:31:44.41
Bill
That's interesting. Not that I really need to dig into it. It just, I've never, I've just never thought about it before.

00:31:47.38
Mike
Right.

00:31:49.58
Bill
So. um

00:31:52.02
Mike
Right. Right.

00:31:54.78
Bill
So um what else with that? I mean, that's I i I'm going to say I it wasn't a bad reading at all. I remember reading that this morning, but I was really fucking tired this morning and for for no goddamn reason.

00:32:03.45
Mike
man

00:32:05.74
Bill
You know, I got plenty.

00:32:06.17
Mike
right

00:32:06.62
Bill
I got plenty of sleep and in whatever. But um yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the what the deal was. But um I do remember, again, you know, bits and pieces as I read that. And I don't remember it being terrible.

00:32:17.77
Bill
But, you know, it was another one, too, I was going to because I think I was going to use it, but it it mentioned, you know, it focused on men and stuff in there again. And I try not to when I look at it, I'm like, can I still get the concept?

00:32:28.46
Bill
And I'm like, yeah, because same deal. I look at our our Instagram feed is still 60 percent of our feed is still female on the Instagram side of things, which, again, still fucking blows my mind.

00:32:38.79
Bill
But. You know, so I try to keep, I do, I do make a point of trying to keep that neutral. So, but um I don't know anything else. That was my point. to Anything else with, with the reading that we, that we missed or

00:32:49.85
Mike
i clip ah yeah I have no idea.

00:32:53.66
Bill
yeah hi

00:32:55.26
Mike
Probably.

00:32:56.73
Bill
probably. Okay. Anything else that stood out at you or or are we good to go? Okay.

00:33:00.18
Mike
no I think I covered my angle from it. I have no fucking idea.

00:33:07.70
Bill
All right, so um i've got I've got a couple of other kind of kind of like sideline things that I wanted to talk about. But the the one thing that came up, and I don't remember if this was this week in in God Grant Me, but it it was nonetheless from God Grant Me.

00:33:23.46
Bill
It was talking about character defects and called these three things bad character defects, okay?

00:33:31.06
Mike
Okay.

00:33:32.06
Bill
Anger, sarcasm, and patience, okay?

00:33:35.22
Mike
me

00:33:36.45
Bill
So do you think that those in, and we, we've talked openly enough about character defects and, you know, admitted that, you know, these things don't necessarily just go away, but do you think that again, anger, sarcasm, and impatience, they almost like, again, label those.

00:33:45.78
Mike
Right.

00:33:49.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:52.18
Bill
I want to say, they didn't say the bad or the three worst, but just said really bad, like kind of bad, bad character defects.

00:33:55.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:58.99
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:59.45
Bill
Your opinion.

00:34:00.70
Mike
um Well, clearly, yeah. They're they're not good. um um i yeah you know, and certainly have exhibited all three of them quite a lot in my life.

00:34:05.41
Bill
Yeah.

00:34:15.62
Bill
Right. Right.

00:34:16.98
Mike
um You know, um the anger and the impatience is way fucking less. Yeah. the sarcasm is to to a lesser degree but it's it's i'm certainly not as sarcastic as i was 16 years ago um well i'm still fucking sarcastic because know talk about learned behavior i mean yeah i i grew up in a very sarcastic environment um you know, passive aggressive and all that happy crap.

00:34:33.02
Bill
Right.

00:34:36.09
Bill
ah

00:34:46.90
Mike
So sure. You know, that's um it's, it's a default for me. Absolutely. But um you know, again, with, with all of my character defects, um I have identified them through um this little crazy thing called working the steps.

00:35:02.28
Mike
So I am aware of them.

00:35:04.66
Bill
Right.

00:35:05.36
Mike
Doesn't mean they're gone. it just means that I'm aware of them. And yeah, you know, uh, I, I were, you know, some of them are gone. Um, you know, the drunkenness is gone.

00:35:16.33
Mike
Uh, Hey, uh, that is, that was a, that was a fatty.

00:35:16.79
Bill
yeah yeah Hey, that's a good one. hey

00:35:24.29
Mike
Um,

00:35:24.50
Bill
Right.

00:35:26.07
Mike
But, yeah, you know, ah the anger is certainly way less. You know, do I still get pissed off? Of course. um You know, it's a natural thing, you know, the anger.

00:35:33.29
Bill
Right.

00:35:36.83
Mike
We've talked about that, and it's fear-based, and we still fucking have fear, full of goddamn fear always. um But not, you know, again, all it's all been lessened because of the work that we've done.

00:35:43.60
Bill
Right.

00:35:49.55
Mike
So, yeah, you know, yeah, I'm a little... Me? Sarcastic? No.

00:35:54.97
Bill
hey Well, and you know, the the thing with this, and that's, well, I looked at all of them, you know, and I've got opinions on all of them, but the the sarcasm was the one that I looked at. And, but you just made a really good point, which I wasn't thinking about.

00:36:08.13
Bill
So people talk about, and I say people, cause I've read it a lot, probably in or either heard it on podcasts or read it certain, play whatever, wherever i've I've heard or read this is that You know, sarcasm is, um, it's basically the, the cover for saying something mean, you know, in, in a lot of ways.

00:36:25.43
Mike
Right.

00:36:26.86
Bill
And, and I agree with that.

00:36:27.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:27.96
Bill
Okay. You know, but the difference I think in what you're saying is that I, I know that I, I try not to, I'm aware of the fact that I don't want to use it anymore as a cover for something mean.

00:36:40.44
Bill
Now, I don't know that I don't, I can't for, I can't for sure say that I don't still do that inad inadvertently.

00:36:40.82
Mike
Right.

00:36:46.93
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

00:36:48.66
Bill
um or even maybe on purpose at times, you know, as a, as a light way to be like, fuck you, dude, you know,

00:36:51.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:54.20
Mike
Yeah, yeah, you're a fucking moron.

00:36:55.86
Bill
Yeah, it it is.

00:36:56.20
Mike
Right.

00:36:57.90
Bill
It is usually to somebody like that. I that I don't care for or it's somebody that's, up you know, it could be it could be even a person of authority like a boss, you know, um you know, where you say something again that's kind of, um you know, I know i know how to place things so I'm not going to get in trouble.

00:37:01.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:06.97
Mike
Right.

00:37:14.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:15.14
Bill
I may get a side look at, you know, I make it look out of side like, did you really just mean to say that, you know, and I'm sitting there all innocent like, well, i if what?

00:37:15.32
Mike
Right.

00:37:18.33
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, right, yeah.

00:37:23.93
Bill
Well, who be?

00:37:25.27
Mike
Exactly, right yeah. I mean, you know, it's definitely a big way I use it, pointing out someone else's stupidity.

00:37:27.82
Bill
laughs

00:37:31.19
Mike
Absolutely.

00:37:31.22
Bill
yeah Right. Right. Right. But, um you know, so, so that part, and and I'm glad you brought that up. Cause I think that that makes a really good point. Cause I was like a fucking sarcasm. How's that a bad, bad defect?

00:37:41.82
Bill
But I mean, you, I didn't, I wasn't thinking about it the way you said that. So just using it for, you know, humor and things like that.

00:37:44.78
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:47.46
Bill
I mean, I, I think that like on here, I think we openly and purposely use ridiculous sarcasm, you know, and and don't even realize it, but we're not doing it a mean way, you know,

00:37:51.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:54.88
Mike
Sure.

00:37:58.04
Mike
Right.

00:37:59.19
Bill
um But yeah, I mean, same deal. I mean, our family, well, you, you met a lot of them before, you know, some of you, you know, before someone passed away, um you know, but everyone, the the uncles, my, my dad, even my grandpa and my grandma, everyone, everyone had that, you know, and, you know, so you grow up with that.

00:38:02.62
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.

00:38:08.31
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:11.55
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right.

00:38:15.57
Bill
And, and like you said, the the passive aggressive stuff. That's the thing. I i despise passive-aggressive behavior.

00:38:23.54
Mike
Right.

00:38:23.73
Bill
I really do, and I don't think that I do it. um At least if I do it, it's not on purpose, and it's not a lot. you know um

00:38:30.74
Mike
Right.

00:38:32.06
Bill
Because when when it's done to me, I just can't. I'm like, just... Fucking tell me, you know, what what the, what the fuck?

00:38:36.76
Mike
Right. Right. Yes.

00:38:38.82
Bill
I don't, I don't even care what it is. I mean, again, i always say that I do care what the, what the words are that are going to come out of your mouth, but I can handle it.

00:38:45.41
Mike
Mm-hmm. he

00:38:48.21
Bill
If you just fucking tell me, but, her around the bush or do this or that.

00:38:51.35
Mike
right

00:38:54.65
Bill
If I did something wrong, tell me, I promise you, I will apologize, especially these days, you know?

00:38:57.82
Mike
yes

00:38:59.13
Bill
Um, but don't sit there at passive aggressive. I don't like, but so the impatient part of it, that's a problem for me. I've been completely open, open in whether it's been, been meetings with, with you, um, on this podcast.

00:39:07.18
Mike
Right.

00:39:11.32
Bill
Um, uh, first one to admit that impatience is that's my number one, you know, and, my lack of patience.

00:39:15.61
Mike
e

00:39:18.30
Mike
Right.

00:39:18.52
Bill
Uh, and it's, it's tough, you know, because I don't, I, it's, it's hard for me. Um, I was going to, I always said it's hard for me to control, which is the, that's my other, that's my other road, you know?

00:39:25.94
Mike
a Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:39:31.05
Bill
Um,

00:39:31.20
Mike
Mm.

00:39:32.47
Bill
You know lack of control, you know, but I mean, I'm better at ah better at that too. But yeah, the impatience part, I do. i' have to have to work on it it far, far better than it used to be. But that's that's my big one.

00:39:41.86
Mike
Yeah,

00:39:42.95
Bill
And the anger, like you just said, the the biggest thing with, like you just, you had mentioned, you know, you still get pissed off. Man, I do too.

00:39:49.76
Mike
right.

00:39:49.98
Bill
And sometimes that's the stupidest things.

00:39:50.44
Mike
Right.

00:39:51.90
Bill
And sometimes if I get pissed off, I'm like, what the fuck? You know, I'm like two things.

00:39:55.83
Mike
a

00:39:57.26
Bill
why I'm number one, i'm glad nobody's around. You know, cause um if somebody's around, I'm not going to, I'm not going to act up around people.

00:39:59.86
Mike
hu

00:40:03.09
Bill
You know, I don't, I don't do that.

00:40:04.89
Mike
ye

00:40:05.05
Bill
I'll take a deep breath and whatever the case is. Cause same deal. We don't want to, I don't want to have to fucking apologize to somebody.

00:40:10.17
Mike
right

00:40:10.57
Bill
I don't want to light somebody up, blow it up and then try to put the pieces back together. That's, that's not fun. We did plenty of that before. Um, but when, when I'm by myself and I'm, I'm pissed off about something, I'm like, what the fuck?

00:40:17.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:23.36
Bill
You know, again, Nothing else. Where did it come from? Why? and, and, and how can I, how can I fix this?

00:40:28.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:30.98
Bill
You know, what, did what did that just do?

00:40:31.29
Mike
Right.

00:40:33.62
Bill
You know, all it did was just, it it wasted X number of calories, wasted X number of minutes of my life.

00:40:37.72
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:40:39.64
Bill
You know, I can't act like that even to myself. It's fucking pointless, you know?

00:40:43.42
Mike
Right.

00:40:44.54
Bill
But um yeah, the, the only thing that, that I value sometimes if I do get angry um is, is realizing now that like you had said too, like we've talked about on here is knowing that that comes from a place of fear.

00:40:59.03
Bill
And now these days I try to figure out, I do try to figure out where it came from, you know, and if I can't, I'm just like, well, I got to just got to be mindful of this because I don't want this to, to spill out on somebody else.

00:41:03.38
Mike
Right.

00:41:11.47
Mike
Yep.

00:41:12.06
Bill
You know, so, um yeah, I guess ah in in second, in hindsight, second thought, side thought, whatever the fuck I want to say, because I wasn't sure how to feel about that when it said bad or because I was looking at like the bad ones or the biggest ones, even though it didn't say that.

00:41:12.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:25.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:27.61
Bill
um

00:41:28.12
Mike
Right.

00:41:28.69
Bill
I guess I guess I have to agree a little bit with that. I know.

00:41:33.68
Mike
Damn it.

00:41:34.99
Bill
And it's just, ah you know, it's the same thing when I, when I read these things that I get this thought and i'm like, i I'm just going write it down because I I'd rather not two things. Same as always. i don't want to overthink it. Number one.

00:41:46.87
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:46.90
Bill
But I also liked the fact that I, one way or the other, either, even if we agree on the same, you know, kind of and end up going in the same direction down the same path, there's still going to be some additional thought to it.

00:41:55.26
Mike
Right. he

00:41:58.12
Bill
So yeah, I'm glad I'm glad I wrote that one down.

00:41:58.49
Mike
Right.

00:42:01.30
Mike
Exactly.

00:42:01.56
Bill
So, um, another one from, from God grant me. And again, not that it matters. I don't know when this is from, but it had to been obviously only over the last couple of weeks. Cause talking about step five, I think we've touched on this before, but I wanted to get your opinion on on this again.

00:42:10.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:16.80
Bill
It says after we take step five, um, we're not alone anymore. We belong.

00:42:22.03
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:42:22.29
Bill
Okay. Okay. So my my question is that, you know, why is that? and And I think everyone, well, I mean, I think everyone that's listened to us through a little bit, we've talked enough about step five of Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:42:34.68
Bill
If you don't exactly, if you're a new listener and you don't exactly know what it is, here's the cliff notes or the basic version of it. You know, you're basically sitting down with somebody and telling them step four is writing down a list of the things you did wrong, but also writing down the good things you did.

00:42:48.63
Bill
But then you got to sit down with, you know, supposedly God, you're yourself and another human being.

00:42:48.82
Mike
Right.

00:42:54.35
Bill
And you got talk through the shit, you know, and it's basically unloading all the garbage of your of your past.

00:42:55.99
Mike
Right.

00:42:59.90
Bill
And it's a step forward, literally in the in the 12 steps.

00:43:01.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:03.74
Bill
And it's a fucking big one, you know.

00:43:05.41
Mike
Right.

00:43:05.68
Bill
um But the the main point was, is that i and I think we talked about this specifically on here, but I just don't remember. So after we take step five, just to repeat, we are not alone.

00:43:12.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:15.16
Bill
We belong. And then again, my my question is, why do you think that is?

00:43:16.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:20.60
Mike
Well, um easy. um it's It's the first step we do with another person.

00:43:26.65
Bill
Right.

00:43:27.26
Mike
You know, I mean, the first four are we do by ourselves, basically. I mean, yes, we generally get a little help from on step four, you know, and two and three we do with God.

00:43:40.46
Mike
um but you know...

00:43:41.50
Bill
yeah

00:43:42.78
Mike
Sorry, kids.

00:43:43.67
Bill
hey

00:43:44.78
Mike
There's some nasty sarcasm. But um but yes, but right.

00:43:48.92
Bill
ah good ah Good example. wait it Way to get that good example out there.

00:43:52.47
Mike
But, you know, yes, but step two and three, we we do with a power greater than ourselves, but it's still, you know, the bottom line, it's not with another person, another human being, right?

00:44:02.35
Bill
Right.

00:44:03.39
Mike
Step five is the first step that we actively do with another person. you know And clearly, um step nine, we do with other people and you know and it's definitely step 12. But yeah, step five is the first one we do with another person. So yes, that is, we are no longer alone. And we are a part of this bigger thing, this program that we share with a bunch of other alcoholics and drug addicts.

00:44:30.01
Bill
Right. So did you, ah and I think we, we talked about this part before too, but just to again, refresh on myself and everyone else, did you feel that way? I mean, I, I, I think walking out of there, I felt form of relief just being done with it to begin with, but did you feel like part of more after that point or, or how did you feel after?

00:44:40.82
Mike
a

00:44:43.70
Mike
Right. e

00:44:48.22
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:49.12
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:44:49.62
Mike
No, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know definitely. you know um Because yeah i I think I've talked about it on here, but you know i mean I kind of did a half-assed four once a long time ago.

00:45:02.06
Mike
it was about as far as I got. and um you know i never did a five, so not really.

00:45:04.07
Bill
Right.

00:45:07.45
Mike
um and Yeah, so, you know, I and walked out of that that church um after talking with that little priest. And, um yeah, you know, oh yes, I did.

00:45:20.01
Mike
I felt a sense of of belonging. You know, I'd done that. I had shared with another human being. And um I was no longer completely alone because I shared some shit that I hadn't shared with anyone.

00:45:33.65
Mike
So, yeah, yeah.

00:45:34.03
Bill
Right. Right.

00:45:35.54
Mike
um I think it's kind of part of why it's in there. And um hey, guess what? It works.

00:45:43.48
Bill
Yeah, and you know, um I don't, I i literally, i can picture myself walking out of that building. You know, I mean, it's just like it was yesterday, which is kind of funny.

00:45:50.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:52.36
Bill
um You know, it's fucking horrible.

00:45:52.38
Mike
Right.

00:45:54.56
Bill
my My memory could be at at times. but And then, you know, my my whole point was, you know, obviously I was going down to, you know, Edgewater. I was going to sit outside. was too fucking windy to sit outside the whole bit.

00:46:05.32
Bill
And, you know, took my hour and did everything that the book said. And then, you know, my sponsor, Bill at the time said, you know, call me when you're when you're done doing all that.

00:46:08.88
Mike
Right.

00:46:13.59
Mike
Right.

00:46:14.20
Bill
So I did. And I had a, again, I remember the conversation, but I remember talking to him and then just again, feeling um this, this, I don't know, this feeling of almost huge, this huge accomplishment that I had, which is probably that, you know, to your point, feeling a part of, but I, I don't know that I placed it like that to begin with, but it was like a, like a deep breath, almost a sigh of relief type of thing, because, you know, you, you build all this stuff up for all these months, you know, and, And going in there and it it not only was not as bad as I thought it was, it was amazingly better.

00:46:27.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:31.16
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:46:42.35
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:46:45.91
Mike
Right.

00:46:47.71
Bill
And I felt amazingly good, you know, just this, ah just this wash, you know, of, of good feeling over me when I, when I was done.

00:46:48.33
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:46:54.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:55.76
Bill
um But yeah, I think that. going over it and talking and and sitting for the hour and doing everything that we were supposed to do, you know, based on, based on the book. And, um, after having that conversation with Bill, I mean, I did, I felt this, I felt this, uh, this overwhelming accomplishment.

00:47:12.20
Bill
Like I really did something, you know, And and I think that, yeah, that probably was that that belonging part, but I don't i still i don't know that I looked at it that way.

00:47:13.86
Mike
Right. Hmm.

00:47:20.12
Bill
But yeah, that's ah that's true. And I know you said it before. That's why I wanted you to to bring that up again, because I think you just got you got a really good way, in in my opinion. i like I just like hearing the way that you explain things.

00:47:32.33
Bill
I overcomplicate a lot of things, as we all know.

00:47:34.42
Mike
right

00:47:35.81
Bill
And sometimes you're you're so goddamn simplistic with the way you just break it down.

00:47:39.70
Mike
o

00:47:40.77
Bill
You're just like, well, no, this is the way it is. I'm like, really?

00:47:43.45
Mike
who Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:46.20
Bill
You know, I'm like, okay.

00:47:46.38
Mike
Well, and again, nothing original. It's, it's you know, what keep it simple and all that shit.

00:47:49.30
Bill
No, I know.

00:47:52.82
Mike
You know, I try to ah try to practice these principles in these affairs. um Yeah.

00:47:57.58
Bill
Right.

00:47:58.42
Mike
And so that's that's all that shit is. It's definitely not me.

00:48:03.19
Bill
No, and i and that's and that's the thing. i mean i And I know that, but again, it's just that you've got you've got a really good way you know of just regurgitating the the right information.

00:48:12.70
Mike
I puke good yeah alright

00:48:16.66
Bill
Regurgitating the information in a perfectly acceptable way, whereas sometimes it may might it might take me you know a half hour to explain what you just said, you know four sentences, you know four short sentences.

00:48:24.71
Mike
yep

00:48:27.02
Bill
But no, it just it's just, I don't know, it is, it's a... it's a Anyone listening to us, if you're newish, especially in a 12-step program and you haven't done it yet, just keep moving forward and get it done.

00:48:39.13
Bill
It can be semi-overwhelming, but both of us promise you that you're building it up in your head.

00:48:39.26
Mike
ye

00:48:44.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:46.01
Bill
It's not as big of a deal as you think it is.

00:48:48.22
Mike
Right.

00:48:48.25
Bill
It's a big deal, but not only is nothing bad going to happen, you are going to feel wonderful if you do it right.

00:48:49.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:56.12
Mike
Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:48:58.24
Bill
If you do it right, that's the only caveat there is you got to be thorough.

00:49:01.78
Mike
Right.

00:49:02.84
Bill
You got to be thorough with everything that you're doing with this program.

00:49:03.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:07.64
Bill
But that fifth step, yeah, you got to get in there and you got to face the music, right?

00:49:12.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:14.07
Bill
But it's speaking of, well, I guess we're not. Are we facing music? I guess there is.

00:49:17.34
Mike
ah You know, their sure.

00:49:17.79
Bill
There's music. There's music behind our our our little promo. Yeah.

00:49:21.98
Mike
Right. All right. Well, apparently we're going to be right back after you listen to some stuff with some music behind it from our sponsors.

00:49:40.02
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back.

00:49:44.20
Mike
Clunky as fuck.

00:49:46.71
Bill
You know, and that was, I'll take the blame for that. I'll take the hit on that one.

00:49:49.94
Mike
dad of No, no, no, no. 100% me. I'm fucking burnt. um yeah Yeah. You know, I could see it. I could be. We've already done this episode. I could sit here and complain about how my fucking back hurts and has all week, but I won't do that because we've already done that.

00:50:06.46
Bill
Okay. So you know what? No, real quick. So here, here's the thing.

00:50:08.93
Mike
Mm.

00:50:09.54
Bill
I hurt my back last weekend too. Okay. So now what I thought about, I wasn't going bring it up going to bring it up for, for only one reason.

00:50:11.79
Mike
Mm.

00:50:15.13
Mike
Okay. Yeah.

00:50:16.26
Bill
Now that you got a thing too, ah the, the back and I bring this up because it doesn't matter to, to, to me.

00:50:16.67
Mike
Sure.

00:50:23.39
Bill
I've heard, I've been really lucky my entire life. I mean, I've had knee problems. I've had all these different things. You know, I mean, I, I wear contacts. I've had a lot of different things.

00:50:31.26
Mike
ah

00:50:32.11
Bill
Okay. You know, but I'm just saying, you know, things that happen, but the knees are the big thing, whatever.

00:50:32.95
Mike
yeah

00:50:37.39
Bill
i've I've had really, really good luck in not having back issues. I know people that, you know, back from in their and 30s that have back issues.

00:50:40.31
Mike
he

00:50:44.32
Bill
And clearly people our age and older that have back issues as based on age and lack of exercise and blah, blah, blah.

00:50:47.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:49.68
Bill
But it's not necessarily an old person's disease, not disease, I'm sorry, old person injury.

00:50:49.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:52.80
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:55.32
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:55.40
Bill
Um, but it's a motherfucker, you know?

00:50:57.33
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:50:57.71
Bill
And, um, like even my, my son, my son's 25 years old, you know, and, and he's everyone.

00:51:01.37
Mike
Right.

00:51:02.87
Bill
So was like, God, my fucking back hurts. I'm like, like Jesus Christ. I'm like, and he's, uh, as soon as I started to get thing on his age, he's like, you realize what I do all day.

00:51:09.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:10.46
Bill
Right. like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:51:11.00
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:51:12.28
Bill
Yeah, he's my my son is an industrial maintenance technician. So he's he's physically working on machines and he's up and down and, you know, on down his hands and knees and doing all stuff.

00:51:15.26
Mike
ah ha Right.

00:51:20.88
Bill
So um a lot of, you know, pain on his knees and his back. And yeah, he's he's going to feel it, obviously, as he gets older.

00:51:24.54
Mike
this

00:51:26.96
Bill
So with me, though, um I was on don't a hiking trail.

00:51:27.44
Mike
Right.

00:51:30.42
Bill
I think what I did is I went up in this fire tower and I literally think that's when I did it because that's the I've been on this trail before.

00:51:35.68
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:51:38.10
Bill
Um, same trail plenty of times. It's like four and a half miles. It's never any issue. It's not a hard trail, but I think that walking up these stairs put a little bit of a strain or somewhere I twisted it.

00:51:48.05
Mike
Yep.

00:51:48.12
Bill
It was fucking, fucking terrible. Okay.

00:51:50.87
Mike
Oh,

00:51:51.18
Bill
So, and that's, you know, again, I mean, that's kind of an old guy thing, but, um, so do you know how you even hurt yours?

00:51:57.59
Mike
oh yeah, I was spreading mulch last weekend. Yeah.

00:51:59.69
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:52:01.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:01.58
Bill
So it's see at least it's, you know, for sure. I don't even know for sure.

00:52:04.21
Mike
All

00:52:04.50
Bill
I'm just, I'm just kind of going, well, that's the only thing I did different.

00:52:07.42
Mike
is this right.

00:52:09.56
Bill
Well, see now, yeah, the mulch should do it. But um here's the one thing that I that i noticed. that For anyone who's is never hurt their back before, but or if you have, it does I guess it does matter. But um I don't realize two things.

00:52:21.15
Bill
How many times I drop things, that's number one.

00:52:23.58
Mike
Anyway.

00:52:23.61
Bill
um Because it's it's a lot, apparently. i drop I drop things all the time, and I never never realized it.

00:52:27.38
Mike
a

00:52:30.01
Bill
But the amount of times in things that you do that, once again, that's why I say it's why the back problem is such is such a big issue. It affects everything. I mean, it's, it's walking, it's sleeping, it's reaching, it's, uh, you know, turning everything you're fucking back, you know?

00:52:44.89
Mike
yes is this

00:52:47.29
Bill
So yeah, it's, uh, I had a, that, that's why I said, when I said before, I'm like, I slept really good, you know, I, earlier in the week, I, I thankfully I could sleep.

00:52:48.70
Mike
anyway

00:52:56.35
Bill
Okay. But I still, if I, if I woke up and twisted the wrong way, then it would wake me up. So, you know, but anyhow, so are you, you doing better hopefully getting there?

00:53:04.50
Mike
um man I don't know. Yes or no.

00:53:07.32
Bill
You know what, mine...

00:53:09.78
Mike
i do Again, you know, old men's bitching about their fucking aches and pains. But yeah, um you know, right.

00:53:14.65
Bill
No, I know, I know.

00:53:16.06
Mike
was little better yesterday. It's a little worse today. It'll hopefully be better tomorrow. It's still better than it was Monday. So there you go.

00:53:23.22
Bill
Right. Well, in in the side note here, the other thing that i that I thought about is that how many stories and let's go back to this, you know, can turn this back into a sobriety thing. You know, how many stories have we heard over the years, you know, where these guys and again, where I say it's a young person thing, we we know a lot of people that, you know, did manual labor and physical jobs, worked in the trades and everything like that.

00:53:32.21
Mike
Mm-hmm. All right.

00:53:39.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:45.20
Bill
And then, you know, hurt their back doing something and ended up on pain meds.

00:53:47.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:53:48.66
Bill
And that, you know, sooner or and later, they get a fucking needle in their arm, you know.

00:53:51.97
Mike
Yep.

00:53:52.63
Bill
And that's a, it's an unfortunate, um you know, pathway to to this sort of thing. And I mean, I know was I was working the acetaminate again for a couple of days, but I mean, I'll tell you that the thing of it is anytime that something like that happens, I, I, I get it.

00:53:57.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:02.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:09.05
Bill
I understand, you know, why, how easily people could um I thankfully i'm I'm glad that, that, you know, we have the discipline that we do now.

00:54:10.84
Mike
Sure. Right?

00:54:17.16
Bill
And, you know, we've, we've heard the stories and played the tape and all sorts of things.

00:54:17.68
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:54:20.48
Bill
And, I don't have pain medication one way or the other, but um if I could have, you know, um safely taken pain medication during that, I mean, it wouldn't have taken um much to convince me, you know, like, you know, I wouldn't, if I hit, cause I almost did, if it wouldn't have got better the the one day I i was going to go to the doctor because that's how, that's how fucking bad it was.

00:54:24.26
Mike
Nope.

00:54:28.30
Mike
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

00:54:32.54
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah.

00:54:41.07
Bill
I couldn't, I couldn't do anything, you know?

00:54:41.50
Mike
Yep. Right.

00:54:43.67
Bill
And if the doctor would have been like, i don't know, I don't think I would have done it right off the bat, but you know given the right circumstance, my point is i can I can understand it, but I'm glad that I don't that i don't try to justify shit like that on ah on a daily basis anymore.

00:54:56.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:56.67
Bill
So, right?

00:54:58.55
Mike
Right.

00:55:00.06
Bill
All right. So, um, God, what the fuck was that? Oh, I know I was going to talk about.

00:55:04.50
Mike
don't know.

00:55:05.50
Bill
All right. So, um, I'm going to talk about uh, a comedian and a couple of different shows and stuff like that, but this has this individual, although not sober, um, the more I kind of dug into a couple of things and it's just, there was a couple of, um, uh, shows and then I ended up listening to a couple of podcasts and things like that with this person You know, I, the more I dug into it, I was just like, God damn, this person is not sober, but um very inspiring, very motivating.

00:55:31.22
Bill
A lot of their mindset is the same as what we are from a recovery standpoint. So I thought it might be a good kind of a mirrored thing. So um I don't know if you would have any opinion about this individual, but Kevin Hart, do you have any opinion on Kevin Hart, the comedian, you know?

00:55:44.40
Mike
Right.

00:55:46.54
Bill
Yeah.

00:55:48.18
Mike
um i

00:55:49.46
Bill
And its it it doesn't it doesn't, whatever your opinion is, I welcome it because I got a story behind it too.

00:55:52.02
Mike
right

00:55:54.28
Bill
Right.

00:55:54.46
Mike
I mean, i don't find him particularly funny or talented or, yeah, you know, i' overexposed and, um you know, I mean, the fuckers everywhere. and um man I don't know. Yeah, not my cup of tea, but whatever. Apparently somebody likes him because he's doing something.

00:56:11.93
Bill
Well, and and here's the funny part. The reason I wanted to ask, and i i you and I have, and correct me if I'm wrong, you and I have never, ever, the the two the name Kevin Hart's probably never been brought up in conversation between us, I don't think.

00:56:25.12
Bill
um I don't see why it ever would have because up literally up until um two weeks ago,

00:56:25.21
Mike
No. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:56:31.45
Bill
I had the same opinion. Okay.

00:56:32.94
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:33.72
Bill
100% same opinion. And the the the first time that... And I looked it up to figure out... To find out when it was. And it was 2015. He had a comedy special that I sat down and watched.

00:56:43.89
Bill
And I watched it for...

00:56:43.93
Mike
Okay.

00:56:46.84
Bill
The first 20 minutes and I turned it off. And the reason I turned it off is because his opening bit was about a and at that point, I mean, that's when he was first starting to get his big, he's really starting to get traction and stuff like that at that time, you know, two, three years building up to that.

00:56:49.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:00.44
Bill
But I think from that point forward, it's kind of really went as he kind of blew up, you know?

00:57:04.34
Mike
Right.

00:57:04.86
Bill
um So I'm like, well, I'm going to you know check out this dude and see what he's all about. And I sat down and the the opening bit was about a raccoon at his sliding glass door. And he was on it for like 20 minutes, you know.

00:57:18.65
Mike
Right. Right.

00:57:19.45
Bill
And I'm like, and as it, when I look back at it, we called it was like the thug raccoon. And he was looking at him this way and looking at that it. was a It's just like this, you know, this classic bit now, you know, that he did.

00:57:29.78
Mike
Really.

00:57:29.80
Bill
And, but that's the reason I turned it off. I'm like, this motherfucker. I'm like, I don't understand what the fuck people see in him, you know.

00:57:35.99
Mike
Right?

00:57:36.72
Bill
I'm like this. It it was so goddamn stupid. I literally turned it off after 20 minutes.

00:57:39.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:41.67
Bill
I've never watched another piece of his comedy in the last 10 or 11 years, whatever it's been. um The only thing that I think is funny is he does um their draft, whatever, whatever betting thing he does during football games with um um LeBron.

00:57:45.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:57:53.69
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:57:57.43
Bill
ah Him and LeBron do these commercials with some DraftKings or whatever it is.

00:57:57.51
Mike
Dang it.

00:58:01.43
Bill
those Those things I thought were funny, but I still, I hadn't looked into anything.

00:58:01.85
Mike
Okay.

00:58:05.59
Bill
But Netflix had this show on with him and it was called, um, uh, funny AF with Kevin Hart. And it was a, um, it turned out to be like more of a, an American idol type of competition, but for comedians, which, um, to begin with, I'm like, Oh, new comedians, whatever.

00:58:17.61
Mike
Okay.

00:58:20.78
Bill
I'm like, what the fuck? I love comedy. I love standup comedy. If there's something about it, that was like an eight, so eight episode, um, series. I'm like, I can, I can take an hour to see what this shit's all about.

00:58:32.07
Bill
You know?

00:58:32.62
Mike
right.

00:58:33.08
Bill
and it was really interesting. He went around in Chicago, New York, and l L.A. um Had, I don't know, probably 14 to 16 stand-up comics in each different place and narrowed down to five to seven. i think out of Chicago, he might have taken an eight or out of New York, took eight, whatever it was. But then, you know, took him to here and then narrowed him down and then did two live shows, blah, blah, blah. So kind of like American Idol-ish at the end where audience votes and all that stuff. So I really enjoyed that that part of the show. And then like Tom Segura was on there as a guest. Nikki Glaser was on there with him. a couple of other comedians were on there.

00:59:10.26
Bill
And kind of his guest was, oh, Chris Rock popped on there at one point. And, you know, during the whole thing, I looked i looked him up, Kevin Hart, because I didn't know how much he was worth. The fucker's worth $450 million, dollars okay? which i'm like, oh Chris Rock, okay, like, I mean, this iconic fucking comedian.

00:59:27.22
Bill
Still, he don't sneeze at the amount of money he's got, but he's, i and I say, and again, big fucking air quote, only $60 million, okay?

00:59:27.22
Mike
Right.

00:59:34.58
Mike
Right.

00:59:35.62
Bill
Kevin Hart's worth fucking eight times that, you know?

00:59:37.46
Mike
Right.

00:59:37.58
Bill
Seven and a half, whatever it is. So, after all said and done just because segura was on um with him i'm like i wonder if uh because joe rogan is friends with tom segura i've listened to tom segura on ering on his podcast i enjoy him as an individual but great conversations so i was just kind of curious so rogan had kevin hart on in 2019 and then i'm listening to the one from 2020 and then that's when i kind of got the same type of thing and They were talking about the fact that that basically, again, he's everywhere, you know, and doing everything.

01:00:08.58
Mike
Right.

01:00:08.98
Bill
And the the point of it is, is a couple of things that he said, he goes, he goes, people always ask me, he's like, why are you doing all these things? He goes, my answer is always, why not? And I'm like, okay, that's kind of recovery-ish, you know?

01:00:18.42
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:00:20.99
Bill
And a lot of the things he was saying was that, you know, that from his his background and the inner city and whatever, as he came out of these things, he'll be sitting someplace and he'll he'll be listening to somebody.

01:00:31.89
Bill
Like, here's an example. He had written a book at one point. I don't remember when it was even, let's just say five, seven years ago. And when he was sitting down and going through the whole book deal and whatever, they're they're explaining to him how to publishing it is.

01:00:44.54
Bill
He goes, well, how does this whole process work? So he goes, everything that I do and people that I meet, he goes, i don't just interact with them. He goes, I want to know how they do what they do because it interests me. you know so that's how he's learned a lot of these things these well if this person could do it in this interest me i wonder if i can do it you know so that's how he gets his hands on all these little things so apparently that with the whole book publishing thing going through the whole bit and he's like he goes hmm he goes well he goes in general i i like books i don't like reading i'd rather do audio books but it was a fun process with me doing the book now i understand at least the idea around publishing so he just got a group of people together and started his own publishing company

01:01:01.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:24.17
Mike
Right.

01:01:24.70
Bill
Now, again, backing this up to $450 million. dollars Okay. He didn't, he didn't always have 450 million, but he has the money and the backing and in the clout, you know, and the star power to, to do some of these things where, i mean, I get all that part, but he's taking the steps.

01:01:28.73
Mike
All right.

01:01:38.62
Bill
Then he's got a yeah deal apparently with Chase and it's, you know, talking about um explaining financial literacy and all that stuff to mainly to inner city folks and an inner city kids, because that's not something he had.

01:01:51.68
Bill
So he gets together and does this whole thing and they're putting this whole together, this program. You know, I mean, he takes his time too, for what he said. He goes, I'm not going to rush all this stuff he because I'm going to take the time, you know, because i don't want to just put out something that's not going to work.

01:02:04.14
Bill
I want to make it happen, blah, blah, blah. So he gets all this stuff set up with Chase and and're like, okay, we're going send people in there. And he's like, he's like, that's a mistake. And was like, what are you talking about? That's a mistake. He goes, you're going to send a couple of white dudes in.

01:02:16.73
Bill
to the to the inner city.

01:02:17.16
Mike
Right.

01:02:18.52
Bill
He goes, you're going to waste everything that we just took years trying to build. He goes, they're not going listen to you. He goes, I don't care what you have to say because you haven't been here. You haven't gone through it. You haven't come out of it. He goes, let me do it as a test thing.

01:02:29.90
Bill
And he goes, I think what they're going to do is they're going record it, blah, blah, blah. But he said, I came from this. I know how to get out. I can offer that. Whether they choose to do it or not is their choice. But he said, least at least they have a fighting chance of looking at and listening to somebody.

01:02:42.90
Bill
And I'm like, that's recovery shit because you and I talked about that. So the recap, the dude that you met in, not met, I'm sorry.

01:02:46.42
Mike
right

01:02:50.42
Bill
the When you went through the program in California, that that dude that was not a program dude, was just a college dude, right? Book dude. That was the counselor.

01:03:00.81
Bill
Was that right?

01:03:01.22
Mike
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

01:03:03.10
Bill
Yeah, so what was his deal? He just, you didn't, I mean, you didn't feel comfortable with him because he hadn't come from where we did, right?

01:03:06.84
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And plus he was a fat fuck. So don't tell me about impulse control asshole.

01:03:12.63
Bill
Yeah.

01:03:15.37
Mike
Uh, but yeah, yeah, exactly. No, he wasn't one of us. And so everything he said, yeah, didn't, I didn't care because it had no weight to it.

01:03:26.03
Mike
He had plenty of weight to him, but his words didn't.

01:03:28.96
Mike
Uh huh.

01:03:30.84
Bill
Ah, that's, that's fucking awesome. up but I'm glad you said that. That's perfect.

01:03:35.06
Mike
ah

01:03:35.19
Bill
But, but I mean that, and then I'm like, okay, so that's kind of recovery stuff. Cause he's got that same mindset. Um, you know, and then, uh, the, the other thing is he said that he goes, he goes, I don't, he goes, I can't just, he goes, people that just talk and talk about stuff.

01:03:39.74
Mike
Right.

01:03:49.35
Bill
He goes, I can't, he goes, I can't deal with people like that. He goes, I need to see people who could take action. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. I'm like, that's kind of a recovery thing.

01:03:56.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:57.95
Bill
Right.

01:03:58.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:58.78
Bill
So all this different stuff he he's saying, and again, I have, I had no, I'm not trying to sell Kevin Hart to anyone. And I'm not trying to say that, you know, you need to, or anyone needs to, you know, get on the heaven cart.

01:04:06.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:11.93
Mike
The heaven cart? The heaven cart. Don't get on the heaven cart.

01:04:15.57
Bill
Don't, don't, don't, God damn it. What? Don't listen to Bill. Don't get on that heaven cart.

01:04:20.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:22.46
Bill
that anyone needs to get on the Kevin Hart train. um I don't give a flying fuck one way the other.

01:04:25.46
Mike
yes

01:04:27.58
Bill
What I'm saying is I listened to an individual that I, okay, so we talk about contempt prior to investigation, right? So I know what I did personally with with this individual. i and i i need ah it this has My whole point is this has really nothing to do with Kevin Hart.

01:04:43.43
Bill
I learned something about myself, okay?

01:04:43.77
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

01:04:45.80
Bill
Now, um based on the fact that this motherfucker, you know, did a bad 20 minutes of comedy 10 or 11 years ago, um I wrote him off and I never looked into anything any further.

01:04:50.90
Mike
Uh huh.

01:04:53.56
Mike
Right.

01:04:55.44
Bill
um I never I never asked the question why, you know, why why the fuck is he everywhere?

01:04:58.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:05:00.36
Bill
What is he doing? You know, is he just being annoying or is he actually doing something, you know?

01:05:01.59
Mike
Right.

01:05:05.14
Bill
And I mean, maybe he's being annoying, but he's doing something in the process. Right.

01:05:09.08
Mike
Right.

01:05:09.74
Bill
So, um, so that, that's on, that's on me. That's a mindset maybe that I want to look into. But the other thing too, is that all said and done is that everything that he does, he does it with purpose.

01:05:14.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:21.86
Bill
He doesn't do it.

01:05:22.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:23.26
Bill
Now, I don't believe for a, for a second that he doesn't enjoy the fact that he's got $450 million, right?

01:05:29.43
Mike
Right?

01:05:30.23
Bill
And the life didn't live, but he was talking about his kids. And he he took his kids back to back to Philadelphia where he grew up.

01:05:33.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:36.47
Bill
He's kind of showing them you know all the the strife, I guess, in the city.

01:05:36.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:40.25
Mike
Sure.

01:05:40.45
Bill
And they're like, Dad, what are those people doing on the corner? And he's like, yeah, they're selling drugs.

01:05:43.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:45.07
Bill
He's like, really? Can we go see? it he's like, no, you can't go see. Go show them the house.

01:05:49.03
Mike
right mm-hmm

01:05:49.87
Bill
And he's like, he's like you live in that whole house? He's like, no, no, no. We lived up there. Somebody else lived there. it was a three-family, you know?

01:05:55.64
Mike
right

01:05:56.09
Bill
And they're like, that seems kind of cool. And he's like, it wasn't cool.

01:05:59.13
Mike
a

01:05:59.30
Bill
He goes, come on, let me show, let me show you this. And so all these different things are like, where did you play? And he's like, they're like, oh, we we did here. That's kind of cool. He's like, that's stuff was cool.

01:06:09.69
Bill
But the whole point was, is that they, they've been sheltered ish, but really never saw these things before. So what, what they were thinking was cool was seeing different things and seeing the experience of, you know, experiencing different things.

01:06:20.28
Mike
Right.

01:06:21.56
Bill
But so he's trying to show him strife And they're just kind of like, you know, it's all this new things.

01:06:25.11
Mike
Right.

01:06:26.68
Bill
But but this the whole thing is I, all said and done, he does things with a purpose. And he does things. He only puts things out that he, you know, that he believes in and that he's tested.

01:06:38.26
Mike
Right.

01:06:39.25
Bill
So like he like a multivitamin thing that he was talking about.

01:06:41.59
Mike
right

01:06:42.17
Bill
um Because Rogan's into a bunch of vitamins. He talked about that.

01:06:44.79
Mike
right

01:06:45.22
Bill
And he goes, I take a multivitamin right now. And he says, what do you take? And he says, I take my multivitamin. And Rogan's like, you have your own fucking multivitamin?

01:06:54.42
Mike
fifty

01:06:54.65
Bill
And he goes, yeah. He goes, let me tell you the story. So the same goddamn thing, you know, he was doing, he was on this health and fitness thing and they were getting all these different pills.

01:06:58.30
Mike
All right.

01:07:02.13
Bill
And then he started asking questions and he visited some of these companies and all this different stuff. And he's like, well, if, if I'm going to take something, he goes, I want to take something that's going to benefit me. But he goes, I want to do the research.

01:07:11.97
Mike
Hmm.

01:07:13.02
Bill
So he did two, three years of research and then put out, did this multivitamin that he's taking. So he's basically testing it on himself in a small group before he sends it to market. And again, this was six, seven years ago, whatever it was, but Um, but he's like, yeah.

01:07:25.67
Bill
So he's like, well, he goes, I guess I'll, I guess I'll figure out, um, I'll get into it. So he learns and he does, but he does something with, you know, that has this, has this worth and it actually has a purpose. It doesn't, to me, it doesn't sound like he's out there just being like, where can I just make some fucking money?

01:07:40.66
Mike
Right.

01:07:41.23
Bill
He's making money because he's doing things that make sense, you know?

01:07:43.38
Mike
hear it

01:07:45.18
Bill
So um that was the whole point with it. Again, I'm I am so glad that you had that reaction to his name when I first said it, because that was that couldn't been any better than that, because literally that's exactly what my what my opinion of was.

01:07:58.06
Bill
him You know, I mean, not my cup of tea. Fuck it. Apparently people like him, but he's not my cup of tea.

01:08:02.52
Mike
Right.

01:08:02.94
Bill
And like I said, all said and done has nothing to do with him and as an individual specifically.

01:08:07.89
Mike
Right.

01:08:07.94
Bill
It's just that I need to open my eyes a little bit more to stuff like that. Realize that, hey, maybe if somebody is out there doing something, even if I don't like the individual, maybe I maybe I can I can align with or get some wisdom from.

01:08:20.50
Bill
i don't want to say the hustle. Maybe that's the wrong word. Is that the right word? I don't know even even know.

01:08:23.13
Mike
man Yeah. Maybe. Yeah.

01:08:25.12
Bill
You know, so it was just it was interesting to me.

01:08:25.83
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:28.92
Bill
And especially on top of everything else, the fact that I fucking literally like broke it, wrote the guy up like, you know, 10, 11 years ago because because of that.

01:08:37.43
Mike
he

01:08:38.30
Bill
So last question really has this has to do with him, too, but not not not really in a general sense. Do you ever because they did this comedy roast on on him, too, which I watched bits and pieces of it, didn't watch the whole thing.

01:08:50.19
Bill
What's your opinion on roasts in general?

01:08:53.50
Mike
um in general I like them yeah yeah well I mean you know going back to the the Dean Martin ones you know in the fucking 70s man those were great

01:08:55.58
Bill
Do you? Okay. So...

01:09:03.61
Bill
Right. And maybe maybe it's just the these new ones that I... I'm not... It's not that I don't like them. I just... the They seem... Every roast that I've ever watched and in recent times, and I'm talking about the last 10, 15 years, maybe 20 years, they just seem very contrived.

01:09:16.51
Mike
Right.

01:09:19.26
Bill
you know And just...

01:09:19.65
Mike
Yeah.

01:09:20.50
Bill
It's just kind of like, okay, I mean, i I understand the concept. I understand the point. I understand, you know, that everything's a bunch of one-liners and, you know, it's supposed to be shocking and all sort of thing.

01:09:27.77
Mike
right

01:09:29.58
Bill
But what it just seems like is just that, okay, going read this sentence and all a sudden it's just, it's like the ta-da pose, you know, they don't really do it, but ta-da, hey, so, huh?

01:09:35.26
Mike
yeah

01:09:38.14
Mike
she

01:09:38.90
Bill
Huh? Come on. Huh? And I'm just like, okay, yeah. I don't know.

01:09:44.57
Mike
I mean, you know, I haven't watched any newer ones, um you know, so i like I couldn't tell you.

01:09:44.76
Bill
I just,

01:09:49.61
Mike
But I mean, you know, um I don't even remember who was being roasted. But, you know, the Gilbert Gottfried, when he came out there and he told like this 9-11 joke, not I think um I think it might have been Hefner that they were roasting.

01:10:04.54
Bill
Oh, okay.

01:10:06.39
Mike
And um he came, Gilbert Godfrey came out and it wasn't that long after nine eleven and he came out and told a very funny, very tasteless, awful 9-11 joke and the room fucking died.

01:10:19.77
Mike
And then he went into the aristocrats joke and you know, which have you ever seen that documentary?

01:10:23.64
Bill
okay um I believe bits and pieces of it over the years. I don't know that I've ever watched the whole thing.

01:10:29.91
Mike
Well, it's it's fucking it's great, man. I actually i own it. But um yeah, it's and he did the aristocrats joke, which is basically this very inside comedian joke going back like into the 50s and the 40s even maybe.

01:10:45.00
Mike
Where they would just, they would start this thing and it's just about the most disgusting things you can come up with. And you just keep going and going and going and that the punchline is, so what's this act called?

01:10:52.50
Bill
right

01:10:57.97
Mike
The aristocrats. After they've, you know, shit and pissed and fucked and...

01:11:00.13
Bill
Heh.

01:11:02.69
Mike
You know, yeah. um It's just that he did that and just freaked everybody out because, like, nobody had done it in public ever. And he and he had just tanked so bad with the 9-11 joke that he said, well, fuck it.

01:11:16.69
Mike
I'm going to do the aristocrats. And he did. And, um yeah, so, you know, that came out of a roast. So, yeah.

01:11:22.58
Bill
Right. Yeah. I don't know. It's just in, in, in maybe it's the, um, I, I should probably just go back and watch some of these old ones at some point and see if maybe they just lost their, you know, their glamor, because I think that that's what they were at the time.

01:11:33.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:35.57
Bill
you know, we're kind of ah a glamorous night.

01:11:35.67
Mike
Right.

01:11:37.57
Bill
Whereas now, um, they're, they're such a, uh, they're, they're a money machine, you know, and they're just an absolute fucking money machine.

01:11:37.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:41.43
Mike
Right.

01:11:44.13
Bill
But, um, I don't know. It's just, I'm, I've never been a fan, but i thought, well, check this one out. Same thing with the Tom Brady one they had a year ago. Um, that had more viewers than like anything in number of months or years or ever or whatever it was.

01:11:55.38
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:11:56.94
Bill
It was kind of a big deal, you know? So, um, I don't know. It was just a, it was a fucking weird one, but. All right. So um I've got something on. Where was that?

01:12:07.98
Bill
Well, I wanted to so one thing about the Keating Center, but I also I actually had um chat GPT do a scan on our Instagram page just to, you know, just kind of curiosity.

01:12:16.98
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

01:12:19.35
Bill
So I'm like, I wonder if it can tell us, you know, kind of what we're ah or if if we're doing things right, wrong or just kind of get this this feedback.

01:12:25.88
Mike
Yeah.

01:12:27.01
Bill
So I've got that too. It's your choice. And whether you want to hear about some of that stuff, some of it was interesting, but I have a, again, a Keating question, question, but a Keating center.

01:12:36.25
Mike
a What now?

01:12:37.26
Bill
Wow. A Keating center question also.

01:12:40.12
Mike
All right.

01:12:40.22
Bill
So your, your choice.

01:12:40.68
Mike
Well, I mean, let's ah let's do the Keating Center and then we'll do us.

01:12:45.05
Bill
Okay. So, um, and actually the Keating Center thing is about you and I, I couldn't remember.

01:12:49.02
Mike
o

01:12:50.09
Bill
Um, it's about group. Okay.

01:12:51.38
Mike
Okay.

01:12:51.70
Bill
Um, when did you, do you remember, well, I'm sure you do. I'm sorry. So when did you start doing group and, and why? And I think I, I have a glimpse of the answer on this, but we, we talk about it all the time, but I don't, I don't remember if we've ever talked about when you started and the why behind it.

01:13:09.85
Mike
Well, um i it it was um Marty threw down that all the three-quarter guys that were available needed to come in and do group, like one, on like a Saturday.

01:13:16.73
Bill
yeah

01:13:23.57
Mike
Right.

01:13:23.96
Bill
Right.

01:13:24.33
Mike
You know, if like if you weren't working and whatever, you needed to get your ass in here and talk to the new guys so that I was one of them. So the first week was um shit.

01:13:35.98
Mike
There was probably 10 of us, maybe more dozen, 15. Second week, there was like ah three or four. The third week, it was me.

01:13:46.07
Bill
if you

01:13:47.74
Mike
And so that's, that's, you know, the, the short, simple answer of how and when and why I started doing group.

01:13:47.83
Bill
Right.

01:13:56.94
Mike
And I just, I just kept fucking showing up.

01:13:59.80
Bill
Right.

01:14:00.22
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, so that, that was, uh, yeah, Saturday mornings were mine for a long time till I went on the road.

01:14:07.10
Bill
Right.

01:14:07.26
Mike
You know, and um couldn't do Saturday mornings anymore. And yeah. And then when um I got like a regular schedule where i was home on the weekends, um it it opened up after, you know, it was probably a year, year and a half later. And and I went to Marty and I said, hey, man, can I start doing it again? and He said, yeah.

01:14:25.59
Mike
And then, um you know, my schedule changed and I ended up um like doing Wednesdays, I think, for a while. And then I yeah.

01:14:31.93
Bill
um forgot about that.

01:14:32.67
Mike
And then Thursdays for a while. And yeah, you know, I and then I i think i ended up going back to Saturdays for quite a while. Um, until, you know, they, they kind of started changing some things and, uh, yeah, you know, I, I tried to, tried to go in there, but, um, did, I don't really fit the new Keating Center program.

01:14:54.96
Mike
So, which is fine, you know, still working, still, still doing their thing.

01:14:56.27
Bill
Right.

01:14:59.52
Mike
It's all great. But my, my, um the whatever technique, ah the way we were taught, blah blah blah, blah, blah, just doesn't really line up with what they're doing anymore.

01:15:03.99
Bill
hey

01:15:11.76
Mike
So yeah, which is fine. I tried to force it for a couple of weeks and it just didn't work out.

01:15:17.48
Bill
Right.

01:15:18.10
Mike
Yep.

01:15:18.93
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? ah And that was when I said that glimpse remembering of it. And I remember at one point, didn't we, when we wanted to use the the van to move some stuff for John and Gail, we, he made us do group one time too, or something.

01:15:23.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:28.38
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:15:32.93
Bill
We had to do something like that.

01:15:34.07
Mike
red Yeah.

01:15:34.25
Bill
was like, you could do this if, you know.

01:15:35.70
Mike
Right.

01:15:36.82
Bill
But, um, and I know I, I, I forgot about the the fact that there's probably 10 or 15 guys and then, yeah, whatever it was, I may have gone this, I may have gone the second week too.

01:15:40.28
Mike
if if Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:15:45.06
Bill
And then, um, you know, not because I mean, Sundays I was always down by my mom and Larry.

01:15:49.56
Mike
Right.

01:15:49.65
Bill
And then, uh, um, yeah, Saturday was my only open day. I'm like, hey I guess I could spend it here if I don't have to, you know?

01:15:53.10
Mike
Right. Right. Yeah.

01:15:55.29
Bill
Um, But, yeah, I completely forgot about that. But, I mean, it it is. it's I know it's something that you enjoyed. And when i after i after I moved up you know back to Wisconsin, when I come back, and you know i I really enjoyed you know sitting in with you.

01:16:01.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:05.21
Mike
Right.

01:16:07.99
Bill
it was always a lot of fun.

01:16:08.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:09.15
Bill
you know And it just, ah yeah, i was it was something I missed.

01:16:09.36
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:13.27
Bill
And then Vinny was in there. And every once in a while, we'd have another person.

01:16:14.62
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, I did it with Vinny for quite a while and did it with Blake for a while.

01:16:17.40
Bill
Yeah.

01:16:19.26
Mike
And yeah.

01:16:19.54
Bill
Oh, shit, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah.

01:16:20.92
Mike
Yeah. oh Yeah. You know, I mean, idea god guys come and go, but yeah, I was, I'm pretty fucking, I liked it. And um it was, it was, you know, sharing my experience, strength and hope and all that happy crap with the boys, which I liked.

01:16:35.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, now, you know, it's one of the things like, ah you know, the the reading that you that you do is what, you know, it's part of.

01:16:41.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:42.13
Bill
And, you know, that's that's why we get that.

01:16:42.46
Mike
Right.

01:16:44.05
Bill
We, you know, getting up getting that piece of it, you know, back here, which I which I really enjoy, too.

01:16:47.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:48.77
Bill
And and I mean that wholeheartedly. i'm I'm so glad that you brought it up. I never that never. a mile Maybe I don't know. I don't know that I ever would have thought about it because I wouldn't have necessarily correlated the two.

01:16:54.80
Mike
Right.

01:16:59.33
Bill
But I mean, it's it's such a i mean, it's a it's such a why.

01:16:59.82
Mike
Right.

01:17:03.48
Bill
Well, why wouldn't we, you know, do a reading?

01:17:05.21
Mike
right Yeah.

01:17:06.03
Bill
You know, I mean, it's just once we started doing it and we're doing it for a while, it just seems like why? the Why the fuck did we not do this to begin with?

01:17:13.53
Mike
Right.

01:17:13.95
Bill
You know, because.

01:17:14.93
Mike
Well, because we didn't know what the fuck we were doing. Right.

01:17:17.34
Bill
Yeah, that's a good point. Because I mean, well, well that's the thing.

01:17:18.79
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:17:19.98
Bill
It's I mean, everything that just, you know, we say it jokingly, but yeah, it's ah it's a great way to start the podcast. But also, um you know, like just like we do, it's a great way to start our day.

01:17:28.50
Mike
right

01:17:29.11
Bill
But on top of that, I mean, literally it it gives us um I mean, in a minimum, it gives us 20 minutes of of conversation every episode.

01:17:36.79
Mike
here

01:17:38.57
Bill
And usually it's more like 25 or 30 minutes, depending on the reading.

01:17:38.78
Mike
right

01:17:43.29
Bill
And, you know, just this is just 100% off the cuff conversations that we have.

01:17:43.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:47.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:48.53
Bill
And these are things that both of us have read before and have, if nothing else, even if nobody else gives a fuck about it, it it helps me immensely, you know.

01:17:51.25
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:57.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:57.42
Bill
And when I came around today, I think the God grant me was it was I got it. Now I got to look at it. I think the God grant me was one that that you did or that.

01:18:07.50
Mike
we've We've done, yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right.

01:18:09.72
Bill
Yeah, that we've done a couple of times. What day is it today? The fifteenth Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:18:12.63
Mike
Yes.

01:18:13.80
Bill
They they talk about drinking, but never my thirst.

01:18:16.34
Mike
hu

01:18:17.24
Bill
You know, and and I read that. I'm like, I'm like, fucking amen. I don't know how many times we did that. You know, probably more a couple of times, you know, and it was.

01:18:23.06
Mike
a I try not to repeat, but if we did, it was twice.

01:18:26.20
Bill
i Yeah, and and i even if we did it, whether we did it once, twice or not, I loved i loved that that reading. even Even if these things come up you know more than once, it doesn't matter to me because they're they're all good.

01:18:39.19
Bill
But yeah, but literally now, like when when I come across these things in in the readings, I'm like, my fuck, I remember talking about that goddamn thing.

01:18:46.14
Mike
that

01:18:46.19
Bill
Yeah. So I don't know. It's just, uh, I, I enjoy the reading and i I, it just, once again, popped into my head and I'm like, you know what, that'd be a good thing.

01:18:48.73
Mike
Right.

01:18:54.38
Bill
I don't know if we ever, we may have talked about how you started doing group, but I don't remember, you know, if we did, it Christ, it could have been, you know, three and a half years ago.

01:18:57.59
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, hey you want really feel old? Speaking of the date today.

01:19:04.60
Bill
Oh yeah. Oh, you know what?

01:19:05.72
Mike
see

01:19:05.96
Bill
God damn it. I was going to make a note about this. Yes. Go ahead. Go. Yep.

01:19:09.82
Mike
My granddaughter, Miss Lydia, turned 18 today.

01:19:14.04
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

01:19:16.49
Mike
She's a goddamn adult.

01:19:18.46
Bill
Yeah. Isn't that fucking crazy? So yeah. Well, two things. Number one and most importantly, happy birthday, ah Lydia.

01:19:23.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:24.22
Bill
And that's, say you know, why I read that on Facebook and I was like, I'm like, how the fuck can that?

01:19:24.35
Mike
Right?

01:19:29.86
Bill
But then, then I started thinking about it and I'm like, well, okay.

01:19:31.67
Mike
Right?

01:19:33.34
Bill
She was coming up on her second birthday when we got sober and I'm like, just do the goddamn simple math.

01:19:35.32
Mike
Yep. Yep. Right. 16 plus 2. Yep. Right. Right.

01:19:39.58
Bill
And I mean, it puts it there, but you know,

01:19:39.72
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

01:19:42.42
Bill
Yeah.

01:19:43.42
Mike
he

01:19:43.70
Bill
You know, that's why that's the same thing. You know, I look at, you know, my my son. My son was nine years old when I got sober and he's 25, you know.

01:19:47.42
Mike
h right

01:19:50.50
Bill
And um but yeah, i mean, Lydia was that. That's I don't know why out of out of all these kids that we've seen grow up over the years, these family members and whatever.

01:19:58.55
Mike
aha

01:19:58.57
Bill
But yeah, her.

01:20:00.28
Mike
Right.

01:20:00.30
Bill
She's 18. Yeah.

01:20:01.42
Mike
Yep.

01:20:01.85
Bill
No, she's not.

01:20:01.87
Mike
Right.

01:20:02.73
Bill
Right.

01:20:03.30
Mike
Exactly. i told her, I was talking to her last night. I told her you need to go out tonight and do some crimes. Yeah.

01:20:09.21
Bill
Yeah. right yeah

01:20:11.42
Mike
Cause tomorrow you're going to be held accountable as an adult. Uh

01:20:14.74
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. and I remember I said, I sat down with Derek when he, when he was coming up at 18 and I just, I was trying to have a real, you know, honest conversation with him. I'm like, the world's a fucking weird place right now.

01:20:25.14
Bill
And I said, I said, I'm not saying that, you know, any, any of these, any girls that you know or anything like that would do that.

01:20:29.61
Mike
Hmm.

01:20:30.06
Bill
But I'm like, you need to be really fucking careful, you know?

01:20:32.69
Mike
Right.

01:20:32.90
Bill
I said, I said that because I said, you know, for the the person that you, you know, were maybe really close to friends or whatever, you know, today, as of tomorrow, you are now a completely separated individual, you know, um based on based on paper.

01:20:33.05
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:20:45.46
Mike
right

01:20:47.70
Bill
And I and he just kind of looked at me and a kind of like, you know, shaking his head.

01:20:47.96
Mike
yeah

01:20:50.86
Bill
I'm like, you can shake your goddamn head at me all you want. But I'm like, all I'm doing is I'm trying to give you a little bit of advice because, you know, I'm not saying that these days are are different than than the old days, but they are.

01:20:53.05
Mike
if

01:21:00.94
Bill
And I said, on top of that, the, the action shouldn't be any different, but I said, it's lot of his perception. So I said, just be fucking careful, you know?

01:21:07.97
Mike
Well,

01:21:08.70
Bill
And it just, it is, there's these that, I mean, it's one day it's like, okay, yeah, now you're, yeah.

01:21:12.93
Mike
yeah. Yes. Take that helmet off. Uh-huh.

01:21:14.62
Bill
Like you said yesterday, yesterday, you know, she's, she's a minor and then now she's not, you know?

01:21:14.83
Mike
Right. Yes. I shall. yes

01:21:18.66
Bill
So.

01:21:19.61
Mike
you take that helmet off

01:21:20.60
Bill
But I know, I know. But yeah, just it just, it kind of blew my mind until literally I sat there. i'm like, but wait a second. You know, I mean, I, I could do math, not not hard math, but I could do, I could do simple math, you know, but yeah, just pass along a happy birthday for me.

01:21:31.35
Mike
right yes

01:21:35.61
Mike
i shall

01:21:38.46
Bill
All right. So, um all right, I'll give you, I'll give you the highlights of this. So the, ah the thing that kind of got me thinking about this was, you know, once again, I mean, ah obviously this whole podcast stuff and being nominated and a little bit of what I, what we were reading off last week about, you know, that, I don't know what's on the internet about us and blah, blah, blah.

01:21:57.82
Bill
that I thought about it. I'm like, you know, I just, I just wonder what, what are we doing? mean, I don't know. I think we're, we've got, we do what we do, you know?

01:22:04.65
Mike
Yep.

01:22:05.56
Bill
And the, you know, Instagram, i wasn't necessarily trying to figure out Instagram, but I was just trying to figure out, is there, is there anything we could do to just, since we, I mean, number one, we were nominated.

01:22:16.12
Bill
I know we're doing positive things. I know we're growing organically and that's, that's what we want to do.

01:22:18.17
Mike
Mm

01:22:20.28
Bill
I'm not looking for, I wasn't looking for a magical answer. Like all these motherfuckers out there, like, oh, grow your audience by 10,000 people, and you know, overnight.

01:22:25.45
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm. Uh huh.

01:22:28.85
Bill
Now I know what that means, you know?

01:22:30.52
Mike
aha

01:22:30.77
Bill
Um, but so they, they did the scan, which, you know, again, was kind of cool. it's It's really fucking detail, but I'll get into the basic parts of it. Um, it's, I mean, it's a lot of words, but the, the basics are not that big.

01:22:41.86
Bill
I could do an outline for them. So it said, first of all, overall, you guys already have something. A lot of recovery podcasts never achieve a clear identity, recognizable voice, consistency, authenticity, and an actual community feel.

01:22:55.84
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:22:56.38
Mike
Right.

01:22:56.40
Bill
So not telling us anything that we don't know, but it's once again, it's nice every once in a while that somebody is like, yeah, babe, we see you over there. We get, we get what you're doing. And even though we didn't try to do those things, that was kind of that, that fits.

01:23:04.58
Mike
Right.

01:23:09.16
Bill
I mean, comfortably, I think for us fits our purpose. You know, it's like, that's fine.

01:23:13.46
Mike
Right.

01:23:13.97
Bill
You know, again, identity, voice, consistency, authentic, authenticity, and then the community feel.

01:23:14.44
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:23:19.52
Bill
Yeah. It says we have strong branding, the Instagram, the websites, episode titles. Episode titles and artwork, okay? You, sir.

01:23:27.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:23:27.88
Bill
You.

01:23:28.15
Mike
Yes. Yes.

01:23:30.07
Bill
Now, the the captions, I don't know if it's talking about the prescriptions. The descriptions that I put together or your you know your episode titles or cat whatever it is, it all goes into it.

01:23:40.19
Bill
you know It says that's actually rare for you know for us to have that because um our tone is consistent. That's what it said. Our tone is consistent everywhere, which is nice.

01:23:46.97
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:23:48.82
Bill
Consistent posting, we know good personality-driven content. I didn't necessarily know that, but apparently it is. But then it said something, which I hadn't heard this term before. It said, you already have social proof.

01:24:00.85
Bill
And I'm like, in my head, what does that mean? So the nomination graphics, reviews, guests, and listener feedback establish legitimacy. Okay? So when people look at us, we have, we have proof that we're the real deal just by so somebody looks us up.

01:24:15.49
Bill
Um, we're, we're fucking everywhere, you know, and we're consistent with where our everywhere is consistent, you know, you know, I'll give you a a side example here.

01:24:15.92
Mike
Right. Right.

01:24:23.43
Bill
And it just, I, one of our, and I'm going to bring it up cause don't want to throw this podcast under the bus cause I don't know who the fucking person is. um You know, but one of our I'll call this person, one of our Instagram friends and ah and a previous guest of ours popped up and is going to be on another podcast, which going listen to this weekend.

01:24:29.82
Mike
Right.

01:24:36.48
Mike
Okay.

01:24:40.48
Bill
And the only reason I know about it is because this individual is tagged and obviously we follow this person.

01:24:40.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:45.80
Bill
But I looked at it and I see the, like a picture, you know, nice little post and it's, it's graphic and it's whatever.

01:24:45.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:51.40
Bill
And it shows the individual as a female podcaster and, you know, it has her name and I'm like, well, I want to listen to this, but what's the name of this podcast?

01:24:59.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:00.22
Bill
I couldn't, it wasn't clear what the fucking name of the podcast was by the post.

01:25:03.47
Mike
Mm-

01:25:04.90
Bill
And I look, I look in the, you know, in the description part, and I'm looking through and it's still, all it is, is like, I am in this person's name. That's her Instagram handle.

01:25:12.89
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:25:13.85
Bill
And I'm like,

01:25:14.25
Mike
Right.

01:25:14.97
Bill
the fuck is the name of your goddamn podcast?

01:25:17.22
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:25:18.23
Bill
You know, so I had to click on her profile, click on the link, took me to Spotify, and then I got the name of her podcast. And still, when I pulled up the name of her podcast, which let's just call it, um you know, Josephine's Podcast, and I searched on that because I'm like, i I want to put a note on what to look at so I can listen to it.

01:25:25.97
Mike
yeah

01:25:31.99
Mike
right

01:25:36.22
Bill
That didn't even come up under the search. I had to put the full name of the podcast and her name in order to even get the podcast to come up.

01:25:43.13
Mike
yeah

01:25:43.93
Bill
And I'm like, Jesus Christ. So it took me like, now i'm I'm saying only five minutes, but still it took me, if it weren't for the fact that I want to listen to our friend, I wouldn't have gone past the post.

01:25:48.66
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:25:53.85
Mike
Right. Yeah. the Second click. Right.

01:25:58.14
Bill
Correct. I wouldn't even, yeah, wouldn't have done that.

01:25:58.74
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:00.34
Bill
So that's an example of, i mean, we, we have that where other people don't. And I, I didn't necessarily realize that we had something like that until clearly it just happened today, you know, but now here here's where it says, here's where you can improve.

01:26:04.38
Mike
yeah

01:26:07.67
Mike
Right. Yeah. Huh.

01:26:13.89
Bill
Okay. So more, more video clips, okay.

01:26:14.78
Mike
All right.

01:26:17.98
Mike
Hmm.

01:26:18.65
Bill
a lot more okay so now hang on this goes through this whole i mean this is fuck it pages and pages and pages of telling us what to do on this and um the one thing it talks about which i'm going to get back to in a second it talks about called a call to action which i'm going to get back to that part but after this whole thing about video

01:26:19.84
Mike
Hmm.

01:26:27.08
Mike
Uh huh.

01:26:37.06
Mike
Okay.

01:26:39.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:26:39.89
Bill
Because you can have, I mean, you you kind of have a conversation with ChapGPT, you know, and I just said, and this is my response to that.

01:26:42.97
Mike
Right.

01:26:45.49
Bill
I said, so the video part of it, we we don't do, and that's on purpose. I said, everyone does video and everyone does it badly.

01:26:52.12
Mike
h

01:26:52.15
Bill
Our opinion is that we don't have any desire to follow the crowd. um We don't have any desire to follow the crowd and just to do bad video like everyone else. And the only way we can you can really do good video is to be skilled and have at editing, have really good equipment.

01:27:01.70
Mike
Right.

01:27:08.63
Bill
And a lot of time we have none of that. you know And so I went through a couple of other things.

01:27:10.62
Mike
Right.

01:27:13.53
Bill
This is kind of funny. So after going through again, pages and pages of telling us that this is the way to go, right?

01:27:18.77
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:27:18.90
Bill
um This is the answer.

01:27:18.93
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:27:20.22
Bill
And I thought this was kind great. First of all, because mentioned the SANS bar thing, the fact that we were nominated. First of all, being nominated for SANS Bar is not a small thing at all. And honestly, um the fact that you're in that position without, and it has that you know in in italics, without chasing trends or becoming podcast influencers influencer guys says a lot about the strength of what you were already doing.

01:27:42.42
Bill
And I'm like, okay, so we I kind of convinced ChatGPT to take another peek, you know which I thought was interesting.

01:27:47.00
Mike
yeah

01:27:48.70
Bill
And then it went through this other stuff. And then it says, okay, based on what you said, um I get it. I get where you're coming from. Some of this stuff is. It's unproduced. It's garbage. It's fake. Even though it's the trend, um you know kind of agreed with us.

01:27:56.89
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:28:00.27
Bill
We've said the same goddamn thing. Everyone's doing this fucking garbage.

01:28:02.97
Mike
Right.

01:28:02.99
Bill
you know um But it said, here's the thing where it said the things that we could work on, which is what I've been trying over the last week or so. It said people who've never heard of you. um That's what we got to work on.

01:28:14.74
Bill
It said right now that most of our posts usually say some version of new episode.

01:28:15.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:19.66
Bill
Here's our guest. Listen, how many episodes? Right.

01:28:21.94
Mike
Right.

01:28:22.58
Bill
And it says that exists or that works for existing listeners. But strangers don't care yet.

01:28:27.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:28.06
Bill
And I'm like, that makes sense. Right. So it says you have to give strangers a reason to stop scrolling before they know who you are. People who have never heard of the podcast, don't know us, don't care about the podcast, blah, blah, blah. So that's where it comes into these call to action in a call to action is something is I mean, I know what a call to action is, but I guess I didn't know what they meant on how we should do it.

01:28:50.46
Bill
So um it said like rather than saying like new episode is out with John talking about recovery relationships, that doesn't create curiosity. You know, maybe a line like getting sober doesn't magically make you emotionally mature.

01:29:02.54
Bill
Sometimes getting sober version, know, I was an idiot for a while, blah, bla blah, blah.

01:29:02.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:06.50
Bill
New episode out now. So the idea is to kind of hook somebody with that or if nothing else, have a little bit more of a a glamorized um post, you know, like our episode post.

01:29:10.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:17.50
Bill
And then have some sort of call to action like, you know, new episode and listen now and based on whatever it is, grab somebody in visually and then make make sure they're looking at the description.

01:29:17.56
Mike
All right.

01:29:27.34
Bill
So that's the call to action sort of sort of thing.

01:29:27.69
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:29.94
Bill
So what I did a few weeks ago, because our our posts, which I didn't realize, our hashtags were getting caught up at the end of our posts.

01:29:38.44
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

01:29:38.84
Bill
And I couldn't figure out why. And I thought maybe I'm just getting too wordy. So what I did was I took our descriptions, like these pre-canned description things and posts that I have, and I put all them into chat GPT and I said, optimize this for Instagram.

01:29:51.70
Bill
So it did.

01:29:52.00
Mike
hmm.

01:29:52.38
Bill
It kind of flipped them around, added some emojis and some things like that, and um took like a list of things in a paragraph form and put them at bullet points because they said that draws the eyes to them. So I did that a few weeks ago.

01:30:02.98
Bill
And I think that helped a little bit. And then what I've been doing now over the last week is I'm taking our the normal episode pictures I put together, putting those in chat GPT and saying, okay, take this and put in a clear call to action.

01:30:17.21
Bill
So the one time I did it with a full description and it got really fucking busy. It's like everything in the episode in the description, they tried to jam on this picture. And I'm like, that's too fucking much.

01:30:28.38
Mike
Right.

01:30:29.46
Bill
But now we're getting things that if you look at some of our posts over the last few days, whether it's the one I post for Fridays where a new episode is coming or upcoming guests or whatever it is, you'll see at the bottom, you'll see a little bit more clear where the links where they could listen and say, you know, new episodes out certain days.

01:30:44.82
Bill
It's got these a little bit more clear idea of who we are, what we're doing and try to ah visually pull people in.

01:30:44.98
Mike
Mm. Mm. Mm.

01:30:50.70
Bill
Um, so I've been trying that in our, what's kind of funny is the reaction so far to those, we're not getting as many, um, interactions with those as we used to.

01:31:02.34
Bill
Okay. And I, and I don't know why yet. Okay. Um, I've got an idea, but that's why going to let it sit for like two weeks and then I'll switch it back or switch it on if I need to. My opinion is that it takes two weeks for anything to get to be a habit.

01:31:16.76
Bill
So if we got people, you know, that are in well one of two things, either Instagram hasn't accepted our change yet, which could be.

01:31:16.96
Mike
Right.

01:31:23.88
Bill
So it's not picking up our new our new flow going back to the beginning.

01:31:24.12
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:31:27.96
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:31:28.08
Bill
And it's not making our things part of the you know part of the algorithm for other people yet. You know, or even our current um followers are not picking up on the fact because they got used to, you know, our other ones, you know.

01:31:43.96
Bill
um And I don't know that people were necessarily clicking on it, but you're still getting these interactions, which means it's getting put in front front of people, which I still think is more Instagram than us. But I think making a change like that. you know, might've affected that. But, um, the bottom line is I was just trying to try to move stuff around. Now, the other thing that they said, the last thing was, um, you know, do something different in what they said was, um, and they called it these, have you seen the posts I've had lately about where it says, um, unscripted recovery takes.

01:32:14.20
Mike
I haven't seen much of anything this week.

01:32:17.27
Bill
Okay. I, I didn't know, but if you, if you, if you happen to, to look, you're going to, you're going to see posts like that. They're black. They have a, they say on on top unscripted recovery, take, they'll have a little saying, and then they have a logo on the bottom that's it.

01:32:28.92
Bill
And they, they said to do that, they said, you know, based on the fact that what you guys are doing.

01:32:29.18
Mike
Hmm.

01:32:33.20
Bill
They said, try to do these things once a day. And they said these, you know, these these things on recovery, like one of them said, um like, I don't know, just taking away the alcohol doesn't, you know, doesn't make it a new excuse.

01:32:46.03
Bill
You just can't blame the booze anymore, something along those lines. So there are things like that that are kind of, you know, kind of like these these aha sayings or at least trying to be but not goofy completely, not completely AA, but some them are, some of aren't.

01:32:48.59
Mike
Right.

01:32:59.63
Bill
Um, but they, they said, try those that could, that make that your thing. And those are getting, you know, 75, 100, 150, 200 reactions or, um, impressions on those.

01:33:09.86
Mike
Hmm.

01:33:11.73
Bill
And this is just within like a five to seven day period. So those things are working, which is fucking weird, you know?

01:33:14.88
Mike
All right.

01:33:18.51
Bill
And all that I did, and I told JATP, I'm like, give me 25 of these, of these sayings.

01:33:19.17
Mike
Right. Hmm. All

01:33:22.91
Bill
So like, I don't, I got a list. I didn't think them up. I just said, give me a list of them. And I'm not using all of them, but I'm using some of them, you know?

01:33:26.42
Mike
right.

01:33:30.30
Bill
so But the the bottom line was is that it it actually gave us, um I don't know, it a decent a decent grade, you know which I thought was kind of interesting.

01:33:39.48
Mike
hi

01:33:42.02
Bill
It's just like you know basically telling us that you guys are doing so from a um somehow, someway, and I'll go back to the same thing I said i said you know a week or so ago or whatever it was.

01:33:49.99
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:33:53.10
Bill
You know, that, you know, being nominated or or anything like that, or these reactions that we got, you know, when we did that Internet search about, you know, the the voting and whatever the case is, you know, we were getting a reaction to things.

01:34:05.71
Bill
We're getting now that almost a validation of of things that we didn't try to do, you know, that we that we of things that we accidentally ended up doing, you know.

01:34:11.80
Mike
right

01:34:15.74
Bill
And that's why I was curious that, you know, what, what other accidental things that are we getting right, you know, and what can we possibly change?

01:34:20.85
Mike
Right.

01:34:23.92
Bill
And, and, you know, to whether, whether it's growth, whether it's making my life a little bit easier or your life a little bit easier, as far as, you know, when we're doing these things, two things id I never want to change your episode titles and your, your pictures, they're fucking hilarious and they're nobody else is doing and nobody else ever will.

01:34:41.78
Bill
You know, everyone tries to get, you know, you know, cute with whatever they do and however they do them.

01:34:41.85
Mike
right

01:34:45.98
Bill
Some people just do names or whatever. No, yours are number one, number one, unique and original. And the only thing that that I've done with them has changed it so that the, um because the one took your picture out completely.

01:34:57.55
Bill
I'm like, oh, fuck no. you We're not taking, we're not taking your picture out of there.

01:34:59.03
Mike
Right.

01:35:01.25
Bill
And we're not taking the title out of the, out of the episode. So our, our episodes on Spotify all look the same. Everything looks the same there.

01:35:07.04
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:35:08.13
Bill
it's just what we're, I'm trying to fuck around with on, on Instagram. But I don't know. ah ah Again, inadvertently, I think we're doing we're doing a lot of things. We're doing a lot of things the right way. And, you know, I mean, clearly people seem to enjoy some of the shit that we do.

01:35:20.65
Bill
And it still blows my mind that I don't get it.

01:35:20.82
Mike
e

01:35:23.25
Bill
But um I don't know. It's just interesting, interesting to me. So I thought you might might also think it was a little interesting.

01:35:30.33
Mike
Yes.

01:35:34.32
Mike
I'd probably find it more interesting if I was awake.

01:35:37.30
Bill
Yeah, I know. But I figured also, too, is that, you know, that gives you you an opportunity to just sit back and, like you said, you know, not a lot of not a lot of heavy lifting or anything like that.

01:35:42.81
Mike
Yes.

01:35:45.78
Bill
So so you got that for you going for you.

01:35:45.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:48.02
Bill
All right. Last thing. Next week, we have our friend Erica.

01:35:49.69
Mike
Yes.

01:35:51.58
Bill
Okay.

01:35:51.90
Mike
Aha.

01:35:52.22
Bill
Um, Erica, I, I originally met, I think I met Erica on Instagram, probably close to the beginning.

01:35:57.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:59.90
Bill
Um, her Instagram handle is sober for the health of it.

01:36:03.51
Mike
see

01:36:03.71
Bill
Um, we've been, we've had her listed in our upcoming guests. We'll start promoting her as a Monday. Um, she's just a good shit. I mean, she's, um, she lives in Austin, married, um, has a son. I don't remember how old her son is.

01:36:15.81
Bill
Um, she's line of hold. She has, she might, she said it on a podcast. I'm not going to dump her age on here, but I know she's younger than us. Um, you know, but, um, it's been sober now for nine years.

01:36:25.40
Mike
Everybody's younger than us.

01:36:28.60
Bill
Right.

01:36:29.91
Mike
Except for Eric Clapton.

01:36:30.14
Bill
She's just, Right. Yeah. Old fuck. But yeah, so she's been sober for, for nine years and she just, she does some really nice things and she's got a, she's got a wonderful personality and a great heart.

01:36:41.15
Bill
And I listened to her story and, um, you know, I just think she'll, she'll be a decent guest and she seems, almost seems like she's a little nervous.

01:36:45.71
Mike
Cool.

01:36:47.83
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ, come on, have a, have a goddamn conversation. It's fine. It's all good.

01:36:50.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:36:51.93
Bill
It's all good. So. So, yes, um and, oh, Justin, that we were going to Justin on next week, um had a conflict, which is why he's not going to be on next week. We'll have him on again whenever he's got the free time.

01:37:00.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:37:02.69
Bill
he's ah He's a younger guy. He's got younger kids. He's married. He's got a far busier life than we do.

01:37:06.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:37:08.05
Bill
And, um you know, we're we're trying to get it lined up.

01:37:08.41
Mike
Yeah.

01:37:11.05
Bill
He'll be on here at some point. But, you know, at this point, like I said, Erica will be on next week. And from there, we've got other people. So stay fucking tuned, God damn it.

01:37:20.70
Mike
Sure.

01:37:22.74
Bill
and And I just want to do this one more time because I have the sound effect. You ready?

01:37:26.42
Mike
ye yeah

01:37:29.98
Bill
All right. So I think it's your turn. You're tired. I know. Go ahead. greg get it.

01:37:32.50
Mike
Yes, I am. All right. Thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you

01:38:05.11
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Oh, keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:38:20.38
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.

01:38:29.72
Bill
And you know I have nothing snappy to end up with. I had a story about a Florida woman, but I'm not going to keep you on for that one.

01:38:31.93
Mike
Good.

01:38:35.04
Bill
well we'll I'll save that one for later. But I know you're tired and I appreciate you yeah yeah hanging in there, you little gipper.

01:38:38.97
Mike
o

01:38:42.26
Mike
Yes, sure, why not?

01:38:42.35
Bill
I

01:38:43.94
Mike
Here I am. Here I go.

01:38:46.75
Bill
know. Yeah, it's it's late. it's so What's that? 939 your time, real time, right?

01:38:49.75
Mike
Yes, yes. Mm-hmm.

01:38:51.42
Bill
yeah All right, man. Well, I'll just shut up right now and just say, I love you, brother.

01:38:56.73
Mike
I love you too.

01:38:58.33
Bill
We will talk soon.

01:38:59.51
Mike
We shall.

01:39:01.04
Bill
Bye.