SoberNotMature - Episode 180 (Stay Cool & Have A Great Summer)

00:00:01.75
Bill
Alright everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And I was thinking a little bit, so i know and know the reaction normally, i was waiting for that, so um but i but I had a thought, and ah allow me to present my thought if you...

00:00:11.34
Mike
Uh-oh.

00:00:19.09
Mike
Yes. well All right.

00:00:19.88
Bill
Okay, cool.

00:00:20.57
Mike
Go right ahead.

00:00:20.93
Bill
I don't want to ask your permission, I'm going to talk anyhow.

00:00:25.43
Mike
Right.

00:00:26.19
Bill
was trying to be courteous, I'm turning over a new leaf and being courteous.

00:00:28.45
Mike
forth Who are you and what have you done with Bill?

00:00:34.10
Bill
Good point. Okay. So, um, whatever it was, so it's a Thursday again. And, uh, um, basically, I don't know, a couple months ago when we're doing, I was talking about, you know, what, what's Thursday, the whole thirsty Thursday thing.

00:00:46.10
Bill
And, uh, you know, our figurines, obviously we don't drink anymore.

00:00:46.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:48.88
Bill
Thankfully, um, that, that didn't fit, but, um, I, I changed my mind a little bit.

00:00:49.64
Mike
Right?

00:00:53.51
Bill
that That's what I was thinking about. And I would like to present my, my facts, not for even facts to you, my thoughts. How's that? That's what I was kind of getting to.

00:01:01.62
Mike
and All right, whip them out.

00:01:01.81
Bill
So here are my thoughts whipped out for the world to hear. um People are actually, maybe they're thirsty for us, for our knowledge, for our wit and our charm.

00:01:17.45
Bill
People are ready to just drink in everything that is for not mature. I can tell. Yeah.

00:01:24.50
Mike
Come on, man.

00:01:24.65
Bill
ah can guitar

00:01:25.02
Mike
I just ate it like an hour ago.

00:01:28.66
Bill
that That sigh was fucking perfect. But yeah, so I don't know. i changed i changed my mind. I think that, um you know, we we provide, we're we're quenching the thirst of the podcast world. How's that? Yeah.

00:01:46.92
Mike
um exactly

00:01:48.83
Bill
Okay. It's, i you know, i tried, i tried, tried, tried something different.

00:01:51.25
Mike
yeah

00:01:52.98
Bill
I tried to be courteous to begin with. I tried to throw out these new thoughts.

00:01:54.83
Mike
Wow.

00:01:57.24
Bill
I did try to shoot, you know, I don't know, give everyone a new idea. mean Fuck it. it It's, it it didn't work. Fuck it. It's, it's good. I'm fine.

00:02:06.02
Mike
but

00:02:07.22
Bill
I don't know. I got, I got out of that. What I thought I would be the biggest, the big sigh was, was more than I expected, but that was, that was wonderful. So thank you. But, uh,

00:02:16.19
Mike
it was something or other

00:02:18.01
Bill
Yeah. before we get into stuff though i you know i just want to get this out of the way first so so we don't not that we would forget about it but you know i'd like to hear about it a little more so i'm scrolling through through facebook last night and i see some new vehicle and i see this thing and i see you know this this view that i've seen before with probably three or four different cars

00:02:39.36
Mike
Yeah, five maybe.

00:02:41.46
Bill
Yeah, at that particular thing. So it was, it was, everyone, it was our friend, Mike.

00:02:43.38
Mike
yep Hi there.

00:02:45.61
Bill
Mike got a new vehicle. So um do tell, do tell us about your new vehicle because it's always exciting.

00:02:47.48
Mike
Hi there.

00:02:51.55
Bill
I don't know. Things like that are are fun. So what you got?

00:02:53.52
Mike
Sure. Why not? Yes.

00:02:54.90
Bill
Ooh.

00:02:55.50
Mike
ah Well, I have 2021 Dodge Charger. dodge charger oh

00:03:03.77
Mike
Um, yeah, it's, uh, yeah, you know, it's, uh, my, my car was, uh, needing some help and, uh, I didn't want to give it to it. Well, my, let me put it this way. My wallet didn't want to give it to it.

00:03:18.94
Bill
Right.

00:03:19.12
Mike
So, um, yeah, you know, I mean, I, I liked my car. I had it actually, I've had it for, I think five years now, maybe even a little more.

00:03:27.10
Bill
Really? Okay.

00:03:28.18
Mike
Yeah. And, um, You know, it was hurting. You know, that was a 15 Ford Fusion titanium edition.

00:03:39.87
Mike
um Yeah, no, I like that car a lot. Clearly, I kept it for a while. um I would have continued to keep it had it not needed a lot of work.

00:03:49.45
Bill
Right.

00:03:49.65
Mike
Uh, so I, um, went online as one does in these modern times and, uh, was looking around for something that I could, you know, handle and, you know, I wouldn't hate and all that good stuff. And, uh, right. Cause I mean, there's a lot of vehicles out there and I, know, most of them I wouldn't be caught dead in.

00:04:12.21
Mike
So, yeah.

00:04:12.21
Bill
Right.

00:04:14.71
Mike
oh Yeah, you know, this one popped up. It was a decent price. It's all-wheel drive, which is pretty rare for a charger because they're mostly rear wheel. And, well, you know, it worked out. um In the ads for it, all the online pictures, it looked purple.

00:04:32.45
Mike
um It is blue. Yeah.

00:04:36.92
Mike
It is, um if the light hits it right and you catch the right angle, there is some purple in there. But I'm assuming under the fluorescent lights when they took the pictures and stuff, that's kind of how it came out.

00:04:48.45
Mike
So anyway, but again, it was a decent deal and and all-wheel drive.

00:04:48.45
Bill
Right.

00:04:53.59
Mike
And yeah, you know, so I got a new car. Yippee.

00:04:57.61
Bill
Nice.

00:04:58.40
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:58.82
Bill
Well, you know, that's cool because, uh, it actually, when you said, uh, you know, look at online for something you like and something you can handle. I'm like, Oh, that sounds like, like me online dating. I'm just looking for anything, something I like and something can handle.

00:05:07.85
Mike
Right.

00:05:10.21
Bill
So we, we know how that's gone for me, but, uh,

00:05:10.24
Mike
Right. Something that you will be caught dead in. Right.

00:05:14.27
Bill
Yeah, there are there are plenty of things on Dating App.

00:05:15.11
Mike
Right.

00:05:17.40
Bill
And i'm um I could be one of the things that people look at me and they're like, I wouldn't be be caught dead on top of that.

00:05:19.75
Mike
ah

00:05:22.07
Bill
So I get it.

00:05:22.42
Mike
right

00:05:23.19
Bill
I'm not saying that um I'm great. I mean, there's ah there's a reason I'm single and partially by choice. Yes, I can i can say that because it is.

00:05:28.48
Mike
isn

00:05:30.16
Bill
But yeah, I mean, I'm not having any, I don't have to, I don't have to reject a lot of people. Let's put it that way.

00:05:36.61
Mike
right

00:05:36.70
Bill
So I'm not but getting flooded with that stuff. But um so, yeah, in the the the thing that you said, and I had never heard it before, but you said about the the color.

00:05:39.59
Mike
Yes.

00:05:46.68
Bill
I mean, you're you're normally darks and blacks and and all that sort of thing.

00:05:50.28
Mike
Oh, yeah. I mean, the last four or five cars I've had were all black.

00:05:55.10
Bill
I was going to say the first one that you had when we first got sober, that was brown, right?

00:05:58.61
Mike
Right. Yeah, right.

00:06:00.34
Bill
Okay. And then did you have, was every everyone, all of them?

00:06:05.38
Mike
Yeah, that's that's that. Yeah, they've all been black.

00:06:07.47
Bill
I was going to say, yeah, yeah exciting okay. So what was the deal with blue and insanity?

00:06:14.93
Bill
I've never heard this, so...

00:06:14.97
Mike
um

00:06:15.91
Bill
oh

00:06:16.00
Mike
Oh, yeah, that's, well, when Kathy got her new car, ah it's blue. And I sent her the link to the article that, yes, insane people drive blue cars. um I don't know.

00:06:26.24
Bill
I.

00:06:26.90
Mike
It's like kind of an urban myth thing or something, you know, it's bad. But, yes, there's some sort of psychological something or other out there in the ether, out there in the interwebs that says crazy people drive blue cars.

00:06:40.75
Mike
So now I get to be one of them.

00:06:43.01
Bill
You know, and and seriously, you would you you would think, I mean, I'm not like a i'm like like a complete, you know, fucking car nut or anything like that. But i um if I'm going to focus on something, I mean, I do like cars and I focus on, I read things like that and I've never heard that.

00:06:49.70
Mike
Right.

00:06:53.78
Mike
Right.

00:06:56.26
Bill
But that's, ah yeah, I commented back on on Mike's post when he said that. I'm like, I really had to think back. I'm like, no, I've never had, I've had a lot of different colored cars, but, you know, I've had, I try to stick with darker colors.

00:07:01.67
Mike
Hmm. Sure.

00:07:07.45
Bill
I wanted a, my last one, the um ah Although I ended up the the TL that I had before this one um in white, I thought that was the best looking car out of that entire model line.

00:07:19.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:07:19.59
Bill
um Even the black ones and all that stuff, I think the white really just kind of, it held the lines in the car really well. And I liked it. And then, you know, this one's gray and I just like it. I got it because the rims are kind of like a gray ish.

00:07:33.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:33.05
Bill
And I was looking at a black one kind of along the same lines, but I didn't like the way it looked as much. So but um yeah, I was just trying to think back and I guess made a joke.

00:07:37.44
Mike
Right.

00:07:40.12
Bill
I'm like, well, I guess I'm not I'm not one of the insane ones because I've never had a blue car probably.

00:07:42.57
Mike
Right.

00:07:44.68
Bill
And I don't think it would be my choice. I've never I've had two two new cars in my life. um Yeah, Don, no, three. I've had three. you know And other than that, and those are just because that the first one was years ago when I worked at a dealership, but the other two were leases, and it was just because it was cheap and easy.

00:08:03.83
Mike
Right.

00:08:03.91
Bill
um

00:08:04.86
Mike
Right.

00:08:05.14
Bill
But other than that, I mean, I buy used ones because I like the imports, and I can get them. I can't afford these. i can I couldn't afford this.

00:08:12.57
Mike
Right.

00:08:13.38
Bill
My car knew what fucking way.

00:08:15.37
Mike
right

00:08:15.42
Bill
I couldn't afford 2021 in car. Not a fucking chance. Yeah.

00:08:18.22
Mike
right

00:08:18.42
Bill
but a fuck not a fucking chance

00:08:20.01
Mike
right

00:08:21.11
Bill
But, um yeah, but anyhow, so i'm I'm happy for you. And I couldn't tell.

00:08:24.83
Mike
ah

00:08:25.44
Bill
I was assuming, um'm not assuming, but I was thinking it'd probably be all-wheel drive, although you've had two that have been rear drive or rear-wheel drive that I can remember.

00:08:32.90
Mike
Yeah, yeah.

00:08:33.99
Bill
But um I don't know. um um get I just, I think you like the all-wheel drive, and I just, I assume.

00:08:38.22
Mike
I do.

00:08:38.82
Bill
But um that's, no, that's nice. I mean, it's, I don't know. I was happy to see that. You know, very happy. I was just like, wow, that's cool.

00:08:45.99
Mike
Yeah. And our friend Tony was happy to see it too.

00:08:46.72
Bill
Yeah.

00:08:49.99
Bill
Yeah, I saw that right away.

00:08:51.01
Mike
Mr.

00:08:51.03
Bill
Yeah.

00:08:51.61
Mike
Mopar guy. Yeah.

00:08:52.53
Bill
Yeah, it's a bull part, brother. i thought that was I thought that was kind of funny. But yeah, he's got an Avenger.

00:08:58.50
Mike
What's he have? An Avenger? Wouldn't that what he has?

00:09:01.92
Bill
Yeah, I think it i think so. No, he's got like the $70,000 special edition Challenger all decked out, 5,000 horsepower and blah, blah, blah.

00:09:08.07
Mike
Challenger. Yeah. and so Yep. Yep.

00:09:13.26
Bill
So, right.

00:09:14.82
Mike
I'm definitely not in that class, but yes.

00:09:17.35
Bill
Right.

00:09:17.73
Mike
I'm his Mopar buddy now.

00:09:20.25
Bill
Well, and I'm guessing, I mean, those ah Chargers got decent power in it, I would assume, right?

00:09:23.62
Mike
Yeah, you know, I mean, it's a six-cylinder, you know, it's it's not the eight, but, it's you know, it's fine. i I punch it and it moves.

00:09:30.16
Bill
Right.

00:09:31.92
Mike
Right.

00:09:32.13
Bill
that Yeah, that's all that's all that matters. That at first Acura that I bought, that little Acura, the TSX that I had when I was still out in Cleveland, um that thing was a four-cylinder, but that was a 200-horsepower, 210-horsepower four-cylinder, which whatever engine they put in there, I mean, that was...

00:09:47.41
Mike
Right.

00:09:50.91
Bill
it had some power. It was a four cylinder, but I mean, it it was zippy. That was probably the best way to put it.

00:09:55.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:55.73
Bill
um But surprisingly for that little of a car being a four cylinder, but yeah, I think that this one, my, my TL, the one I had before this, that was like 300 and I don't know, 10 or 15 horsepower.

00:10:06.15
Bill
I think the one I have now is two 90, but it's a lighter vehicle.

00:10:06.58
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:10:09.51
Bill
So who knows? I don't know. It's just, I, yeah, but Tony's car is probably who fucking knows 500 horsepower.

00:10:11.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:13.52
Mike
Yeah, probably.

00:10:14.26
Bill
Yeah.

00:10:15.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:15.51
Bill
yeah yeah too much but yeah he he took us i rode into once when we were out there we were out there at uh everywhere we were but we we went for a ride in and yeah that's uh it's it's yeah too fast not too fast but it would get me in trouble i know that's that's for goddamn sure but uh no so seriously so congratulations congratulations on the on the we hickle so but um

00:10:19.93
Mike
yeah

00:10:30.56
Mike
Absolutely.

00:10:34.88
Mike
well thank you. Y'all. All right. This has been Car Talk with Frick and Frack.

00:10:42.68
Bill
Yeah, we can talk. I like talking about cars, but, you know, I wanted to bring it up because it's just, it's nice.

00:10:44.77
Mike
Yeah. oh Yeah.

00:10:48.13
Bill
I like cars to begin with, but it's always fun.

00:10:50.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:10:51.06
Bill
I don't know, just getting new shit and being able the the beauty of us being able to, you know, as degenerates, being able to do some, do some things, you know, it's, it's nice, you know?

00:10:52.72
Mike
Right.

00:10:58.15
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Walk in, sign your name, and they give you this fucking several hundred, yeah, tens of thousands of dollars worth of steel and rubber and plastic and, yep, kind of cool.

00:11:01.85
Bill
yeah

00:11:12.25
Bill
Yeah, well, I mean, the the last two that I got, I got them through Carvana.

00:11:15.44
Mike
Right.

00:11:15.53
Bill
um You know, and I mean, I never, I didn't believe it until they actually got there with the vehicle.

00:11:19.19
Mike
Right.

00:11:19.65
Bill
I'm like, am I really getting this? Like, everything's everything's fine.

00:11:21.35
Mike
Right. Click, click, click.

00:11:22.53
Bill
yeah Yeah, because even with the, you know, with the trade-in, that was a weird, the weird part, the trade-in. like, you're just going to take this this car that I have and basically whatever you're getting, because if there was some problems, and they' like you were saying with yours, and I'm like, there's going to be no pre-repercussions.

00:11:34.03
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:11:38.21
Bill
I held my breath for like a month after that too, you know?

00:11:39.41
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:11:41.21
Bill
but But yeah, I don't know. It's just, it is, it's, ah it's, it's nice to be able to, I don't know, to do some shit, you know, just, it's just nice. So again, congratulations.

00:11:50.44
Mike
yeah It's nice to be yeahre again, trusted and you know, they think we're responsible and, and I suppose we are.

00:11:56.80
Bill
Yeah, this, is this fucker's ex. yeah I think this fucker's going to pay us back.

00:12:02.01
Mike
Right.

00:12:02.34
Bill
I don't know. guess we're going to take, we're going to take a, take a shot at this bitch and see if he actually does pay us back.

00:12:05.73
Mike
Right. Yeah. Uh-huh. Sure.

00:12:09.66
Bill
All right, so cool. But yeah, I got, oh, ah little another little update. I'm down to three sheets after after last week. So um there's only a couple of a couple of new things I have on here, just things that came up this week.

00:12:15.84
Mike
ah

00:12:19.77
Bill
But I didn't add any more for like questions, maybe one little one. but

00:12:23.91
Mike
ah huh

00:12:23.99
Bill
um So we're we're still going to, if it's okay with you, we'll still dig away at some of these things. I got a bunch of them, but I don't know.

00:12:27.85
Mike
sure

00:12:29.68
Bill
I mean, we've surprisingly enough, I was not real confident that... um Because, i don't again, I don't know how long this shit's been on here. I wasn't real confident that it was going to go as well as it did, where there was just one dud that we had, you know, thing that we were like oh, fuck it, we talked about that a million times or whatever it was. so But, yeah, I guess now that I said it, we'll see how it goes tonight.

00:12:51.32
Mike
yeah

00:12:54.17
Bill
But first of all, Mr. mr New Vehicle, what do you what do you think?

00:12:55.42
Mike
Yes. Yes.

00:12:57.21
Bill
Do you have a reading? yeah

00:12:58.28
Mike
ah Yeah, I got one of those.

00:12:58.61
Bill
Should we do something like that?

00:13:00.15
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:00.46
Bill
Is it said a Thirsty Thursday special?

00:13:05.07
Mike
No.

00:13:08.41
Mike
um

00:13:08.59
Bill
ah God damn it I just took a cup drink of coffee I'm gonna spit that fucker out yeah Right yeah I don't need to do that right now

00:13:12.30
Mike
Nice. but um yay You finance a new computer.

00:13:19.85
Mike
Hang on. I got to clear my throat. All right, I'm back. Uh, thank God for mute buttons.

00:13:29.41
Bill
Right Nice

00:13:29.67
Mike
Okay. yeah Um, this is actually today's out of God grant me. Yeah. Read it this morning. he went, Oh hell that'll work. So, uh, here we go.

00:13:41.79
Mike
Uh, yes. July 31st.

00:13:45.01
Mike
How could I believe in a higher power? I was taught that God is just an idea that weak people use as a crutch. That's from an Alcoholics Anonymous member. Maybe me.

00:13:57.09
Mike
ah After we admit how serious our addiction is, we have to face our fear and sadness. Without the help of a higher power, we are hopeless.

00:14:08.92
Mike
That's why we each must find a higher power that can give us the help that we need. Some of us don't like step two because we think it asks us to believe in somebody else's idea of God.

00:14:21.00
Mike
it doesn't It doesn't even ask us to believe in our own idea of God. Hmm. The most important thing is to find a higher power, not necessarily the higher power.

00:14:33.49
Mike
or the highest power, to help us stay sober. One that can teach us to succeed in sobriety and one that we trust. We don't have to understand this higher power.

00:14:45.98
Mike
We just have to believe that it works. Prayer for the day. Higher power. i ask you to come into my life and show me how to trust and understand you.

00:14:58.06
Mike
to- Today's action. Today I will make a list of three people or things that know more about recovery than I do. I will circle the one I trust the most.

00:15:09.83
Bill
Yeah, I kind of laughed at that this morning, and I'm like, neither one of us is going to go out and do that today because it was a good reading.

00:15:15.25
Mike
No.

00:15:15.79
Bill
you know But um but i write when I read that, I'm like, then you know then kind of, again, jokingly, who knows more about recovery than us?

00:15:16.23
Mike
Yes.

00:15:23.63
Mike
Right. ha

00:15:25.62
Bill
No, no, but I mean, not, not that we necessarily have to have to name people, but I mean, that's kind of the, I guess, speaking of naming, that's the name of the game, right?

00:15:30.85
Mike
who

00:15:34.77
Bill
Is that um we, we need to know of and or seek out people that know more than us, because that's how, that's how we learn, right?

00:15:35.39
Mike
Right.

00:15:44.32
Bill
That's how we grow.

00:15:44.64
Mike
Absolutely. and And we have to admit that there are people that know more than us.

00:15:48.14
Bill
ah

00:15:49.87
Mike
Right.

00:15:51.14
Bill
Yeah, that's the that's the that's the tough part, especially in the beginning for us egomaniacs like myself, you know, but ah yeah somebody might actually know more than me about this subject.

00:15:54.70
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. About anything.

00:16:02.85
Bill
Yeah, literally about anything, but certainly about this whole this whole sobriety thing.

00:16:03.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:07.69
Bill
but

00:16:08.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:08.42
Bill
um So to begin with, and I guess this just crossed my mind, and I know that, I mean, you've you know had a little bit of, obviously, background in this before this time coming into recovery.

00:16:17.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:18.43
Bill
So did... when When you first came in this time, did you believe that right away?

00:16:22.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:16:24.43
Bill
Did you realize, did you know that, hey, i've got I've got to seek out people, I've got to find somebody right away that that knows there was shit to help me? Or what were your thoughts at that point?

00:16:34.37
Mike
Um, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, clearly, you know, I had, I had come to that conclusion that I didn't know what the fuck, you know, like I said, I've been around the rooms before and it'd been a while.

00:16:42.32
Bill
Yeah.

00:16:47.22
Mike
um but yeah, you know, I, I clearly didn't know whatever the fuck it was that I needed to know. So yeah, I needed to find somebody who did.

00:16:57.96
Mike
um and thankfully we were pretty much surrounded by them from the beginning.

00:17:02.83
Bill
Right.

00:17:02.95
Mike
Um, you know, if they came in and talked to us and I mean, you know, I mean, walking through the door, um you know, there was somebody there that, uh, you know, shook our hands and invited us in and my clearly they knew a little something more than we did but at that point.

00:17:02.97
Bill
Right.

00:17:19.09
Mike
So yeah, uh, you know, that was pretty easy for me.

00:17:19.61
Bill
right

00:17:22.32
Mike
Yes. I knew that, you know, clearly I didn't have the answers. I should probably find somebody that did.

00:17:29.54
Bill
Right. And you I mean, i I know for a fact that I didn't come in necessarily, um you know, throwing my ego at the at the doorstep and it'd be like, oh, OK, let's let's find the smartest guy in the room or even the one that knows a little bit more.

00:17:37.11
Mike
Right. Right.

00:17:44.94
Bill
But I, you know, that, that was the one thing with, with his, his pissy and his angry and in that sort of thing is I was, I, I don't think I fought that part of it a lot.

00:17:45.05
Mike
Right.

00:17:53.91
Mike
Right.

00:17:54.41
Bill
Um, you know, well, two things, I mean, the stubbornness part of me was just, you know, I'm you people, you know, and I don't like that saying, but that's what, that was my mindset.

00:18:02.01
Mike
Well, yeah, of course.

00:18:02.90
Bill
You know, all all of you people, you know, can sit there and talk to me, but I'm not I'm not talking, you know I'll just sit here and listen.

00:18:02.99
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:18:08.00
Mike
Right.

00:18:09.05
Bill
So I think in the back of my mind, just by saying that, even though it was stubborn, i think I knew that I didn't know. um I had no idea what I was getting into. So maybe that was part of it. um But I don't think it took me that long to realize that um I needed other people. And I did.

00:18:25.42
Bill
I just worst case scenario, I just followed people. You know, I'm like, OK, well, I don't know where where lunch is.

00:18:28.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:30.66
Bill
So I guess I'm going to go this way.

00:18:31.83
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:18:32.37
Bill
i know we got to go to a meeting. I have no fucking idea how to get there. So I guess I'll follow this guy.

00:18:36.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:36.81
Bill
um And that's when that Keith, really tall Keith and i um started hanging out because he was just dragging me a along to the meetings, which is fine, you know, because I didn't didn't know where the fuck to go.

00:18:39.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:43.76
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:18:46.05
Bill
um I had no idea to what to do when I walked into the meeting. had no conception of anything. So um again, me I think, I don't think I fought that too much is my, is my point, which is, which is weird.

00:18:57.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:58.29
Bill
Cause I think I tried to fight everything.

00:19:00.31
Mike
right yeah but yeah somewhere deep down in in that that gooey center of us we uh had a little bit of self-realization that uh yeah we don't know what the fuck we're doing which is which is scary for somebody who's walked around their entire lives going i i know exactly what's going on i got this handled blah blah blah you know and clearly we didn't so there you go

00:19:01.61
Bill
Right.

00:19:13.26
Bill
Right.

00:19:23.40
Bill
Right. Well, and and that the thing too, with the, the higher power part, and both of us talked about like, you know, you had said you weren't sure how you were going to deal with the God thing. Cause you knew about that coming in.

00:19:33.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:19:34.78
Bill
um And I knew enough about it from my dad and and other people um that I knew that had been around recovery, you know, that, that there was, there was God involved in this thing.

00:19:38.14
Mike
Right.

00:19:43.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:43.78
Bill
I didn't realize that it didn't have to be, you know, that it have didn't have to be the backbone, backbone of the cornerstone of this thing.

00:19:47.07
Mike
Right.

00:19:49.81
Bill
But,

00:19:50.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:50.58
Bill
Um, I didn't, I didn't know how I was going to deal with the higher power, but still once again, whether it happened that first week or two weeks, whatever it happened, it happened really quickly that, you know, whether it was Dan or Tony, whichever one of them said it, you know, you don't have to believe, um, you know, in anything specific, just know it's not you, um, mind blowing and eyeopening and really fucking helpful.

00:20:00.47
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:20:08.36
Mike
Right.

00:20:13.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:13.59
Bill
Yeah.

00:20:14.14
Mike
Absolutely.

00:20:15.22
Bill
You know, and but but again, I mean, that you know, at that time, what if dan Dan probably had what, 10 years, 15 years, 10 years. ten Yeah. God, still even thinking about that, Jesus Christ.

00:20:27.33
Bill
I mean, Dan was Dan was Dan, you know, and then he's like, then again, I almost said only 10 years, but I mean, fuck 10 years.

00:20:29.33
Mike
Right.

00:20:33.10
Bill
But, um you know, the the knowledge that he had at that point, realizing that, you know, we're just a bunch of fucking dope sitting there.

00:20:33.11
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:39.81
Bill
And, you know, we we need to hear, you know, the simplest of things.

00:20:41.52
Mike
right yep

00:20:43.57
Bill
And, know, he's sitting there with it, with his with his verbal spoon and going, you can handle this. Just take this little bit here.

00:20:49.06
Mike
right

00:20:49.10
Bill
It's OK. I'm not going to hurt you. Just take this. It's OK.

00:20:52.47
Mike
ye

00:20:53.27
Bill
yeah um But so, yeah, I don't think I really are. The higher power thing, thankfully, ah people came to us pretty quickly. So I don't think that part of it was ah the initial thing. I don't think was that big of a deal.

00:21:03.45
Bill
But um I like the opening line.

00:21:03.72
Mike
right

00:21:06.27
Bill
now What is that again? God is just an idea that people use as a crutch. Yeah.

00:21:09.80
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Sure.

00:21:12.06
Bill
Well, you know what? And, and I, I mean, I, I don't, I don't know. I'm not trying to be critical of, you know, like organized religions necessarily, but, um, I think that that's a joke, but I think it's true.

00:21:20.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:23.81
Bill
I think it's really true that, you know, I think that people, i think there's a lot of people out there that, um, whatever they, whatever they believe in, especially, I think the organized religion type of thing is I think they are just kind of going along with the crowd.

00:21:24.37
Mike
sure

00:21:37.08
Bill
You know, it's just that they've noticed since they were, like they were a kid and their family and,

00:21:41.02
Mike
Right.

00:21:41.13
Bill
I mean, granted, it gets deeply embedded in them. I mean, I've met people that are that are like really into their faith.

00:21:47.19
Mike
Right.

00:21:47.29
Bill
um Not a lot, you know, that I really hung out with. But when you find somebody that's really deeply into their faith, they don't they don't they're not trying to push it to you. They're not trying to sell it to you.

00:21:55.59
Mike
Right.

00:21:56.92
Bill
um They talk about it, but you can just say it's theirs. You know, and you can tell where they're at with it.

00:22:00.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:02.41
Bill
Whereas, you know, so many other people are, you know, ah why aren't you going to church or God this and out there, you know, standing on a, on a goddamn milk crate trying to, you know, um recruit people, you know, but, um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:22:06.04
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:22:10.87
Mike
a Right. Well, they don't call it a flock for no reason. and but oh

00:22:21.70
Bill
That's a good point.

00:22:21.93
Mike
Right. Yeah, you know, exactly. i mean, you know. I think organized religion has its place for some people.

00:22:29.80
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:22:30.28
Mike
Um, you know, it can be beneficial. I mean, I was, you know, part of a different ones when I was younger and, um, you know, I took what I could use and left the rest and, you know, I, I, I truly looking back on it.

00:22:43.18
Mike
Um, I I'm grateful that I had some of those lessons taught to me through that vehicle for lack of a better word. um Yeah, absolutely. You know, I learned some good things, um things that I've, you know, used in sobriety, things that I've looked back on, you know, called back on and and still used to this day. That's fine.

00:23:06.19
Mike
um

00:23:06.22
Bill
Right.

00:23:06.95
Mike
You know, yeah, you know, and I mean, there's good and bad and everything. And yeah, you know, I mean, you know, that's as far as I'm going.

00:23:19.87
Bill
Well, you know, and here's here's the other thing, too, and I think ah Mark Barron talks about it every once in a while, too, is that, you know, he's like, whatever whatever makes people comfortable and whatever helps them sleep at night, whatever, you know, makes them not be afraid, um you know, maybe of of the world and in what they're what they're doing, whatever they want to believe in, whatever happens at at the end.

00:23:24.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:29.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:33.55
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:23:39.59
Bill
Because, you know, the thing that's kind of funny to me, and we talked about this part before, is people are like, You know, oh, if you don't believe in God, you know, what's what's the point? What would be the harm? What happens if you get to the point there really is a God?

00:23:52.02
Bill
Well, you know what?

00:23:52.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:53.25
Bill
um I live in, that was my point, I think, at the time, is that I live a life right now Where if, you know, there there is, you know, this thing out there, this being out there, I'm not ashamed for anyone to look at my, you know, the this is, you know, defending your life tape.

00:24:03.22
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:24:10.10
Bill
that People can look at my tape.

00:24:10.50
Mike
Right.

00:24:11.77
Bill
You know, the early days, fine.

00:24:11.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:13.79
Bill
But i I atoned for that.

00:24:14.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:15.75
Bill
Let's use a term that some folks might recognize.

00:24:16.23
Mike
Right. Sure.

00:24:19.19
Bill
Yeah.

00:24:19.53
Mike
Maven repented.

00:24:21.30
Bill
yeah I have. I have atoned and repented you know over the last 15 years.

00:24:23.83
Mike
Yes.

00:24:25.58
Bill
And I'm not not far i'm far from fucking perfect.

00:24:25.74
Mike
Yep. Me too. Uh-huh.

00:24:29.18
Bill
But you know i if there is a being at the end of this thing, I'm not afraid to to be in front of that being.

00:24:29.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:33.20
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:24:35.24
Bill
because

00:24:35.33
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:35.94
Bill
Because I've done okay for myself. you know I'm not a fucking evil as much anymore.

00:24:37.98
Mike
Yep. Yeah, exactly.

00:24:41.53
Bill
but

00:24:41.54
Mike
yeah Exactly. Yeah. ah Yeah.

00:24:43.63
Bill
yeah

00:24:44.34
Mike
If it turns out that I'm wrong, okay. Well, here I am. This is what I did. You know, you're still sending to me some bad place. Cool. I don't want to hang out with your dumb ass anyway.

00:24:53.05
Bill
Right.

00:24:55.65
Mike
That's the way you work.

00:24:57.48
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:24:57.53
Mike
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha

00:24:58.42
Bill
You know, it's not, I mean, cause you gotta, you gotta think about it. I mean, all the, and we're not, we're not better than anyone out there either, but um you know, the fact that we were, and I'll say forced only if we, if we wanted to live, you know, we, we were, you know, quote unquote forced or had to go through this, you know, this program of, you know, rigorous honesty in order to, you know, stay sober and live.

00:25:09.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:18.79
Bill
And along with that, you know, get some life lessons and some steps and we've got some books to carry along in our backpack with us.

00:25:18.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:22.36
Mike
Yep.

00:25:24.76
Bill
And, you know, it's made us better people. you know, wow.

00:25:27.37
Mike
Right. And that right there. Right.

00:25:29.99
Bill
yeah

00:25:30.03
Mike
ah That's the thing. You know, makes if it makes you a better person, there's no way in hell I could I can bad mouth it.

00:25:36.57
Bill
Right.

00:25:36.82
Mike
You know, you were talking about Marin. so if it makes him feel safer and and and whatever, um. You know, sometimes bad people need to rationalize and justify their shit, and it makes them feel safer and not afraid of being bad people.

00:25:51.40
Bill
Yeah.

00:25:54.00
Mike
So, you know, which it can work that way too, kids.

00:25:54.70
Bill
ah

00:25:57.66
Bill
Right.

00:25:57.88
Mike
But if it's making you a better person, not only for yourself, but more importantly for the people around you, then i can't say a bad thing about it.

00:26:08.32
Bill
Right. Well, we were talking we were talking about last week with the you know, the the ah consequences, you know, the fact that I never looked at it as a is a negative, you know, I mean, feeling like you just said, you know, feeling safe and in all sorts of things could be, you know, even fucking evil people need to feel somehow safe.

00:26:09.06
Mike
Yep.

00:26:23.33
Mike
Sure.

00:26:23.41
Bill
And maybe maybe that is why they're lashing out at people because they don't feel safe.

00:26:24.11
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:26:26.93
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:26:27.17
Bill
So I get it now. I get I get what you put down there.

00:26:29.49
Mike
a

00:26:30.25
Bill
I understand it. I get it.

00:26:32.01
Mike
good

00:26:32.18
Bill
Yeah, it's it's looking at the looking at both sides of that coin, which sometimes I don't.

00:26:35.65
Mike
and see

00:26:35.94
Bill
you know And that's why I appreciate these these conversations because you know sometimes it is. It's the simplest thing like that and you're like, yeah, you son of a bitch. That made sense. Yeah, fuck it.

00:26:44.82
Mike
for fulfill

00:26:45.29
Bill
That made sense. It fucking made sense. yeah

00:26:47.67
Mike
huh

00:26:48.67
Bill
Um, but obviously the, uh, well, what they talked about there, but I wrote down, you know, believing that it works, obviously the higher power, um, facing fear and something else. And I was listening to the next line you read and I don't know what it said off of that, but, but we, we talk about that enough with facing fear.

00:27:02.22
Mike
Right.

00:27:04.69
Bill
I think that was like right in the middle of the main section, Um, but it talked about, uh, step two and, you know, but the fact that I think that's an important point in step two, it doesn't tell us, you know, what we have to believe in.

00:27:17.34
Bill
It's not saying you have to believe in anything specific, just, you know, yeah.

00:27:17.84
Mike
Right.

00:27:21.28
Mike
right

00:27:23.77
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, um you know, i the reading, it says some of us don't like step two because we think it asks us to believe in somebody else's idea of God.

00:27:33.71
Bill
Right.

00:27:33.85
Mike
And then it says it doesn't. It doesn't even ask us to believe in our own idea of God. Right.

00:27:40.42
Bill
right

00:27:40.65
Mike
It doesn't.

00:27:40.96
Bill
yeah

00:27:41.60
Mike
Right.

00:27:41.79
Bill
yeah

00:27:42.61
Mike
Just believe in something bigger than yourself. And and yeah. and And then again, it finishes up with and trust that it works. That's where the faith is

00:27:51.76
Bill
Right.

00:27:51.95
Mike
You know, in whatever. Yeah. Which, you know, that's, you know, if people ask, well, how's an atheist work the program of Alcoholics Anonymous? Right fucking there.

00:28:02.51
Bill
Right.

00:28:02.75
Mike
It's not me. And I trust that whatever it is, it fucking works.

00:28:07.31
Bill
Right.

00:28:08.11
Mike
And it apparently does. Right.

00:28:10.44
Bill
Yeah, and I think that's the that that's the simplest thing. I mean, that somebody says that it seems like such a stupid question to me when for somebody to say, how does you know an atheist or even agnostic or whatever?

00:28:21.43
Bill
i mean Well, how does a God how does a god person work the program?

00:28:21.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:28:24.68
Bill
Because this isn't a God.

00:28:25.09
Mike
Right.

00:28:25.76
Bill
It's not a God program.

00:28:27.15
Mike
Right.

00:28:27.27
Bill
I mean, you can you can substitute God for your higher. God could be your higher power.

00:28:31.35
Mike
Sure.

00:28:32.11
Bill
You know, but it's um again, it's ah it's a silly question because it doesn't matter whether it's well, and the the beautiful part. And I think back and I know we had the we had a priest at who do you know that led the one time, if you remember.

00:28:46.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:46.09
Bill
And, you know, he was talking about I can't remember. I remember if he was younger or older. I just remember he was a priest and he was talking about the fact that. I think he probably made a joke about it saying, well, yeah, of course I believe in God, you know, that sort of thing.

00:28:58.48
Mike
Right.

00:28:59.49
Bill
But he said, and he, know, cause we're we're in the basement of the rectory there. Would that be right?

00:29:04.67
Mike
Yes, that would be right.

00:29:04.80
Bill
And who do you know?

00:29:05.85
Mike
Right.

00:29:06.08
Bill
Okay. So we're not actually in a church basement. We're on the church grounds, but the church isn't above us. You know, it's next door.

00:29:12.54
Mike
Right.

00:29:13.33
Bill
But as he's speaking, the church is to the left, you know, where the podium is.

00:29:16.92
Mike
Right. right

00:29:17.71
Bill
And I remember him doing that. He's saying, you know, that, you know, what I what I believe in and what I what I do over there is different than what I do here.

00:29:25.04
Mike
who

00:29:25.16
Bill
And he said, I found a way to whatever it was separated. And I think um Joe, when our sponsor, Joe, went back to church after he got sober for a handful years, whatever it was.

00:29:31.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:35.18
Bill
I think his priest told him the same thing. What you do, keep doing what you do over there.

00:29:37.40
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:29:39.53
Bill
You want to come here. We could do our thing here, but you still need to do that thing over there. It's two separate things, which I thought was great, you know, because um that right there tells me that, um again, it doesn't matter.

00:29:44.33
Mike
Yo. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:29:52.71
Bill
I mean, oh so so how does a God guy do what a God guy does it the same way, same fucking way that we do?

00:29:57.68
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:30:00.31
Bill
He leaves his old God thing over there in the in the building with the steeple and, you know, hangs out with the drunks in the basement.

00:30:00.33
Mike
Right.

00:30:03.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:06.27
Bill
It's a whole different thing, you know?

00:30:07.72
Mike
yep yeah

00:30:09.88
Bill
and just, I don't know. Yeah, we've had, we have had the pleasure of hearing some pretty awesome leads. And that was one of them. um That really was one of them. And because, you know, I, Christ, I didn't know what to what they expect from a, well, I didn't, I didn't know what to expect from Father Bill.

00:30:21.11
Mike
he

00:30:24.48
Bill
when we had, um wouldn neither one of us did, when we had him on, which whatever episode, that was a handful, six, seven episodes ago.

00:30:24.69
Mike
right see

00:30:29.92
Mike
Right.

00:30:30.52
Bill
And if anyone hasn't listened to to Father Bill, just look back.

00:30:32.60
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:30:33.04
Bill
He's the old guy we just we just talked to, um you know, six, seven episodes ago, maybe eight, the last couple of months.

00:30:39.45
Mike
Right.

00:30:39.57
Bill
um But as you said, he was one of the coolest guys we you ever talked to.

00:30:42.81
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:30:43.68
Bill
He was fucking amazing.

00:30:46.74
Mike
Yep.

00:30:46.74
Bill
And then he's, what is he, late 70s, I think, something like that.

00:30:48.80
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:50.53
Bill
Yeah. It was good dude. It was a lot of fun. It was a whole lot of fun. So, all right.

00:30:54.87
Mike
It was.

00:30:56.36
Bill
um Anything else with the with the reading? I mean, once again, I'm going to say it like i always it was a good one. I thought it was a good one this morning when I read it.

00:31:01.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:03.04
Bill
But yeah, I'm glad i'm glad you picked it.

00:31:03.19
Mike
Right.

00:31:05.12
Bill
But anything else?

00:31:06.42
Mike
No, no. I mean, I went back and reread the part that I thought was most important. And, you know, if you missed it, rewind. It's a little button there on the left with the arrow going backwards.

00:31:17.98
Bill
Right. Or it gets, or you actually go to a friend to get them to listen to it. Then we get the additional play.

00:31:21.88
Mike
Right.

00:31:23.78
Bill
I'll listen to it with a friend.

00:31:25.45
Mike
this is had to do that anyway.

00:31:28.06
Bill
Yeah. Do that anyhow. So speaking of that, I've got to read this, this comment from somebody from Instagram. So we're good on the reading. I don't want to jump over. I didn't really get your answer.

00:31:37.36
Mike
Yeah. know Yeah.

00:31:38.55
Bill
Okay. Sorry about that.

00:31:39.23
Mike
Yes.

00:31:39.53
Bill
Yeah.

00:31:39.93
Mike
Wow. Wow.

00:31:41.21
Bill
yeah Write that down. I just apologize to you also.

00:31:43.25
Mike
o

00:31:44.26
Bill
It's a, it's a whole new me. I'm telling you, I'm, I'm,

00:31:46.18
Mike
wow

00:31:48.27
Bill
It's just all fucking bullshit. If anyone out there believes it's all fucking bullshit. I posted this meme today. i don't know if you saw it. It said, I was just sitting here quiet and innocent before before I got around to all you people.

00:32:01.98
Bill
And ah Shirley said, I'm calling. And then she put it put a you know little little emoji of a bull and then poop.

00:32:07.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:32:09.76
Bill
Yeah, exactly. That was the reaction I was looking for. but Okay, so there's a one of our followers on Instagram. um Shit, I can't get his.

00:32:22.12
Bill
He's got underscores on here, but it's um his handle on Instagram is another24, so spelled out 24. um But it's like underscore, another, underscore, 24 together, and then underscore.

00:32:35.22
Bill
The reason I'm saying that is if anyone looks on Instagram and looking for what I'm going to talk about on here, you knowt feel free. I think it's a dude. I I'll be honest with you. I'm not sure, but I, I think it's a dude.

00:32:45.71
Bill
Okay.

00:32:45.96
Mike
Okay.

00:32:46.49
Bill
If it's not, if, if you're a, if you're a lady, I apologize. Um, reach out let me know.

00:32:50.19
Mike
smooth Right.

00:32:52.02
Bill
So, um, this individual had sent a message and then, um, also sent us this, I'm going to forward this thing to you also. Um, it's a thing on Instagram that what they do, their Instagram page is they take oranges

00:33:00.98
Mike
right.

00:33:07.90
Bill
and basically tattoo pictures and shit on oranges. Okay.

00:33:11.62
Mike
Hmm. Okay.

00:33:12.36
Bill
It's really fucking cool.

00:33:14.44
Mike
Hmm.

00:33:14.52
Bill
And this person did our logo on a fucking orange.

00:33:19.22
Mike
Really?

00:33:19.36
Bill
Okay. Yeah. In a real, uh, but you know, so I couldn't, I'm sitting there, I'm trying to do a screenshot, uh, you know, to get the picture of it. i'm like, cause I wanted to show you.

00:33:28.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:28.53
Bill
I'm like, ah, fuck it. I'll just, you know, I'll just send it to you. But, um, actually I'm going to send it to you now while I'm thinking about it, but

00:33:31.82
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:34.32
Mike
All right.

00:33:35.06
Bill
Very nice comment. You'll have to, this will take you to Instagram, but I want to send it to you so you can take a look.

00:33:38.99
Mike
and Okay. I mean, I have an account. I just never go there.

00:33:44.05
Bill
I know. I know. That's why I said it, though. You're going to to go on the on a God forsaken place. But for it.

00:33:48.66
Mike
on the

00:33:50.24
Bill
yeah But for anyone, for anyone else, um this individual is what I'm going to talk about, um actually um tagged us on it. And we're a collaborator. So you can find it on our page.

00:34:01.29
Bill
And it's just from a day or two ago. But you'll see it. It's a it's kind of a darker picture. You'll see it orange on it. It's a real. But anyhow. So the person said, um Let get back into there. God damn it. flipped out of it.

00:34:12.01
Bill
So the person said, finally, i got around to giving at Sober Not Mature podcast to listen. They aren't lying. They are definitely not mature.

00:34:20.28
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:34:21.52
Bill
And then put the old ha-ha on there. um Got to check it out today, which is always nice for for my own journey and recovery while listening to them. was nice to hear their latest podcast on accountability regardless of consequence.

00:34:33.74
Bill
We could use that more or we use more of that in so many ways. Um, great reminder guys stay humble. Also heard Mike, pretty sure it was Mike.

00:34:45.17
Mike
two

00:34:45.56
Bill
Um, say he gleaned hope from the New York dolls and he background, he put background music to this thing. He did. It was New York dolls.

00:34:52.42
Mike
Oh, nice.

00:34:52.65
Bill
Um, but said, uh, yes, please. Uh, it was hard to pick a as they are so much a part of my story.

00:34:58.88
Mike
Cool.

00:34:58.88
Bill
Um, he goes, I'm sure you can find them on all platforms, by the way, I'll put their info in the story below. It's Monday, if you believe in that Gregorian nonsense. Cheers, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:10.39
Mike
All right. I like this person already.

00:35:12.50
Bill
Yeah, so it was, I just thought it was nice. And I messaged back and forth. And actually the person asked, she's like, is this Bill or is this Mike?

00:35:19.06
Mike
right.

00:35:19.36
Bill
but And I'm like, this is Bill. I said, i you know I'm one one that handles all the social media crap. But okay, for and we haven't done this in a while. So let's let's reintroduce ourselves. Okay, so Mike, go ahead and so they can put put ah put a voice to your name. and introduce yourself, Mike.

00:35:34.66
Mike
Hi there. My name is Mike and I am an alcoholic who did a whole bunch of dope.

00:35:41.97
Bill
That's my favorite part. And yes, the goopy ass motherfucker over here. This is Bill. And I am also an alcoholic who has never done any dope.

00:35:49.39
Mike
Hey, weirdo.

00:35:49.76
Bill
but but I'm a fucking weirdo. And if you look at our pictures, the guy that looks really cool with the beard and tattoos, that's Mike. um The guy that looks like just a normal everyday fucking Joe that you'd see in the street.

00:36:00.56
Bill
That's me. Okay. um But yeah, so that that's who we are. But you know as much as I look like some normal fucking person, it's still, you know we talked about it before, I walk into places, you're like, hey, how you doing?

00:36:08.79
Mike
Yes. Yeah.

00:36:11.21
Bill
Where you been? Well, I'm like, you fucking know me? yeah

00:36:13.94
Mike
see

00:36:14.86
Bill
So yeah, and i and I didn't think people knew I was running around ah seven grocery stores. But But so anyhow, so to the the individual, another 24, number one, I thank the person for listening.

00:36:19.98
Mike
yes

00:36:25.65
Bill
I thank them for the kind words.

00:36:26.08
Mike
yeah

00:36:27.71
Bill
um Obviously, you know, the whole orange thing, very, very cool. But I don't know, again, same thing as we've talked about before. And I think it it bears repeating because I think it's important, the type of um followers and listeners that we have.

00:36:40.72
Bill
um

00:36:40.93
Mike
Right.

00:36:41.88
Bill
We really, and and swear to God, we get very few interactions with anyone except for got a handful of friends of people that we know and stuff like that. um But, you know, you the general out of whatever it is, 6,500 people, very few people interact with us. We don't get many emails. We don't get any many messages.

00:36:58.72
Bill
But when we do, and I would say, what, 95% of the time? Um, they're not only good, um, but they're heartwarming and they're, I'll just call them fucking sweet messages from people.

00:37:11.61
Mike
Absolutely.

00:37:11.71
Bill
Um, and they, you know, they, they take the time and they're, they're caring messages too. They're not just, Hey, fucking, fucking love you guys.

00:37:20.11
Mike
Right.

00:37:20.23
Bill
And if you want to do that too, op we'll take it. I like that.

00:37:22.54
Mike
Right. Stay cool. Have a good summer.

00:37:29.02
Mike
And by the way, 24 hour person, whoever the hell you are, i just want to let you know, um, I have a Johnny thunders tattoo, so I'm sure you'll appreciate that.

00:37:39.37
Bill
Well, good. Yeah. and And I don't know how how deep into our episodes this individual got, but obviously they listened to, they might've just grabbed the latest episode, it's it sounds like.

00:37:48.29
Mike
Right.

00:37:49.08
Bill
But, oh yeah, I got a message from somebody else.

00:37:49.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:51.42
Bill
um I don't know, sent me some fucking weird meme or post whatever the other day, you know which is fun.

00:37:55.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:56.92
Bill
I get those, you know quite ah quite a few of those every once in a while. But...

00:37:59.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:00.07
Bill
um A person's like, she's like, oh, this was a female. She's like, oh, by the way, I'm still listening. She's like, I'm on episode 110 or something like that. it just this person that started listening to us, I don't know, however long ago.

00:38:08.73
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:12.80
Bill
And yeah, just you know kind of gave an update that, oh, here's here's a really fucked up meme, but also just...

00:38:17.85
Mike
yeah

00:38:19.28
Bill
Also, just so you know, I'm still listening and thank you guys for what you do type of thing. And I just, again, things like that, people taking the time, you know, whether it is to send me a fucked up meme, I like them.

00:38:23.60
Mike
Cool.

00:38:28.74
Bill
Um, but on top of that, I don't know.

00:38:28.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:30.22
Bill
Once again, people say really nice things about us. It's a small group, small number of responses, but the the things that we get just so everyone knows we fucking appreciate it.

00:38:40.32
Mike
Yes, we do. Yes.

00:38:41.59
Bill
Just cool. That's all.

00:38:42.60
Mike
Yes.

00:38:42.74
Bill
So, but yeah, stay cool. Have a great summer.

00:38:47.12
Mike
Right. Bob Wagner.

00:38:49.17
Bill
Ah, that fucking made me laugh.

00:38:50.14
Mike
Yeah, I know.

00:38:50.93
Bill
You laugh a lot.

00:38:51.66
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:38:52.52
Bill
Rock on. well

00:38:53.85
Mike
right

00:38:55.02
Bill
Rock on with your bad self. All right. So um just real quick, and I'll get into some recovery stuff in a minute. But what's your opinion of Robert Wagner, the actor?

00:39:06.12
Mike
bob wagner

00:39:07.34
Bill
Yeah.

00:39:07.98
Mike
yeah i know

00:39:08.05
Bill
hey

00:39:08.65
Mike
right yeah

00:39:08.96
Bill
yeah

00:39:09.53
Mike
Yeah, right. you know Well, um let's see. He killed Natalie Wood. um

00:39:13.83
Bill
No. Okay. Yeah, there's that. I forgot about that.

00:39:17.04
Mike
but kind of would What kind of wood doesn't float?

00:39:17.27
Bill
What? Yeah, what kind God damn it. You beat me to it. Fuck. ah

00:39:22.87
Mike
oh No, yeah yeah, you know, he did some cool stuff. I mean, God help me, I liked Heart to Heart. Yeah.

00:39:31.63
Bill
Right.

00:39:34.94
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, the Austin Powers stuff. He was cool in that. I mean, yeah, he's he's done some decent stuff.

00:39:38.77
Bill
Right.

00:39:40.39
Mike
Sure.

00:39:41.63
Bill
I was just curious because he, yeah um again, Rob Lowe's podcast, he was on he was on there.

00:39:45.92
Mike
Right. Ah.

00:39:47.03
Bill
um And him and Rob Lowe were actually, they've been close friends for a number of years.

00:39:52.18
Mike
I'm sure.

00:39:52.30
Bill
um

00:39:52.46
Mike
Well, I'm just, that's the Austin Powers thing, right? Yeah.

00:39:54.69
Bill
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:54.98
Mike
He played, he played his older self or his dad or something.

00:39:55.33
Bill
is i

00:39:58.36
Mike
I forget how they worked that out, but yeah.

00:39:59.49
Bill
yeah yeah um Yeah, Rob Lowe was the was the younger the younger version of number two.

00:40:03.13
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, there you go.

00:40:05.04
Bill
um But I don't even know if it was, it might have been prior to that that they that they knew each other.

00:40:09.10
Mike
Sure.

00:40:09.92
Bill
But anyhow, it was it was interesting. And I'm like, I haven't heard or heard about robb or heard from Robert Wagner in years. But so the other question, because it kind of blew my mind, but any guess without Googling it how old he is? 95. 95.

00:40:21.28
Mike
Oh, God. He's probably like late eighty s

00:40:25.42
Bill
ninety five

00:40:26.91
Mike
There you go. Yeah.

00:40:28.66
Bill
yeah And you know what? um I've heard, I've listened plenty of podcasts. You could you could hear 95 years old in people.

00:40:35.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:35.95
Bill
um he did not He did not sound 95, was very quick. um I mean, quick-witted with stuff.

00:40:39.60
Mike
Right.

00:40:41.19
Bill
And I mean, recalling, telling stories.

00:40:41.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:44.00
Bill
And when he said that, I was just like, did I hear that right?

00:40:47.39
Mike
okay

00:40:47.61
Bill
And i but I Googled it right away. I'm like, Jesus Christ, he is. He's fucking 95 years old.

00:40:50.86
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:40:52.27
Bill
It just, again, blew my mind. Yeah, I was i used to watch Heart to Heart. There's nothing said doesn's wrong with that.

00:40:56.13
Mike
Sure. Mm-mm.

00:40:57.48
Bill
Nothing wrong with that at all.

00:40:58.48
Mike
Little Stephanie Powers action.

00:41:00.45
Bill
Yeah, she was a hot little ah hot little number.

00:41:03.48
Mike
Sure. Sure.

00:41:05.35
Bill
But okay, so that that was it. That was it on Robert Wagner. just to I don't know. i didn't I didn't know what your opinion was, but yeah just it was an interesting episode. so

00:41:14.14
Mike
My bet.

00:41:14.40
Bill
um All right. So let's, so let's jump back in here. Cause we, I think I got time for at least one before we, before we take a, take a little step aside.

00:41:22.96
Mike
Sure.

00:41:23.09
Bill
So from, from keep it simple ah today, i will list three things. I like things I like about myself.

00:41:31.16
Mike
Ah.

00:41:31.40
Bill
um Maybe it, and I put in parentheses, not that we have to maybe look at it this way, but I said, maybe look at this as three improvements since we've been sober, but um and Maybe that is the right way to look it, but I'm not going put words in your mouth. So, Mike, what are a couple of things that you like about Mike?

00:41:48.15
Mike
Well, let's see. I'm good enough. I'm smart enough.

00:41:50.49
Bill
a

00:41:51.58
Mike
And gosh darn it, people like me.

00:41:53.58
Bill
All right, everyone, let's take a break.

00:41:54.61
Mike
yeah ha!

00:41:57.88
Bill
I knew that was coming. I just knew. I knew Stuart Smalley was coming in.

00:42:01.41
Mike
Right.

00:42:01.56
Bill
it that's

00:42:01.88
Mike
ah Three things.

00:42:02.29
Bill
That's why get

00:42:02.92
Mike
Well, there you go um yeah i Seriously, three things I like about myself.

00:42:11.09
Bill
Just pick one. Pick one if you want.

00:42:12.24
Mike
yeah yeah All right.

00:42:12.51
Bill
be Be lazy. It's okay. It's okay.

00:42:14.96
Mike
um I'm reliable.

00:42:17.95
Bill
Right.

00:42:18.61
Mike
Yeah. You know, that's that's a big one for me because God knows I wasn't for a very long time. And I am, you know, it's, I mean, I joke with people in my life, in real life, um you know, how did I become the responsible one?

00:42:34.07
Mike
You know, when when the fuck did that happen? yeah

00:42:36.64
Bill
Right.

00:42:38.36
Mike
But it's true. I am reality. you know, my relationships and my social, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I mean, I'm, I'm the fucking steady one. I'm the one that shows up. I'm the one, fuck me.

00:42:52.67
Mike
ah You know, but um as much as I, I, I can't believe it. um I do like that about myself today. i am, I'm consistent.

00:43:03.08
Bill
Right.

00:43:04.39
Mike
Yes. You know, and it's kind of cool.

00:43:07.92
Bill
You know, the the funny part is, and i and I swear that, I mean, that's exactly the, when I asked you that question, I was thinking about that was reliability.

00:43:16.33
Mike
Mm.

00:43:16.58
Bill
and And it reminded me of just this just happened yesterday or the day before with Kathy and I, maybe it was on, i don't know, Monday, Tuesday, whatever it was. I can can't remember what day it was. So um every once in a while, you know, she'll she'll get, you obviously come home and, you know, from work and stuff like that. And usually I'm cooking dinner and I'm doing whatever. It's just my thing.

00:43:36.36
Bill
um But, you know, sometimes I'll either either we're recording like this and I don't necessarily go, oh, by the way, my schedule today, Mike and I are recording, you know, so. So, I mean, I won't be down there cooking dinner by the time she gets home or whatever. So um whatever day it was, let's let's call it Tuesday. I had to take a phone call or make a phone call after work and I get tied up for a while.

00:43:55.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:55.63
Bill
And I had the door shut, whatever. But um when when she came, because ultimately she thought maybe we were recording. ah But but she had said, you know, later, I'm like, oh, I said, I said I was on the phone with but blah, blah, blah.

00:44:01.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:06.35
Bill
And she's like, you know what? She goes, funny. She goes, when when I when I walk in and you're not down here like cooking dinner, she goes, first of all, i kind of walk in.

00:44:12.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:13.33
Bill
She's like, I'm looking around. I'm like, what do you think? I'm cross your mind. I'm either drunk or dead.

00:44:18.23
Mike
Right. Right.

00:44:19.00
Bill
And, uh, and, uh, she's like, yeah, she goes, I never really, she goes, I don't don't think you're drunk. And she goes, I never go so far as to think you're dead. But she's like, you know, maybe something's wrong.

00:44:26.60
Mike
Aha.

00:44:28.80
Bill
Cause she said, she goes, you're so structured, you know, especially, you know, after work and when you, when you make your dinner and whatever, and, and I am, you know, and, but I mean, you can, it was just a perfect example of, um, she expects me to be doing that, you know, and that's where I'm going to be.

00:44:29.27
Mike
Right.

00:44:33.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:36.23
Mike
Right.

00:44:43.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:45.05
Bill
and you know In the morning, any morning that I work, if you ask me where I was at any time in the morning from the time I get up to the time I working, I can tell you within five minutes exactly what I'm doing at that time frame.

00:44:56.43
Mike
Right.

00:44:56.64
Bill
I'm sure you can too.

00:44:57.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:58.44
Bill
um And to your exact point, it is every once in a while, I think about that and I'm like, God damn, people expect this from me. not not if I don't think it about it in a bad way.

00:45:07.93
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:45:10.19
Bill
um But like you said, that you know you're a steady one. You're the reliable one.

00:45:12.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:13.96
Bill
you know, you show up and you think, God damn, but um yeah, I mean, I do. i I appreciate that, of the trust and the reliability. You know, the I love um the fact that,

00:45:25.32
Mike
Well, the trust is the byproduct of the reliability.

00:45:28.61
Bill
Yeah. That's, you know, what that's, that's a good point. Yeah, they, they do. They go hand in hand, you know, cause people know that you're going to show up.

00:45:32.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:33.94
Bill
People know that you're at least as far as, far as they know, I'm not going to steal from them today.

00:45:35.24
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:38.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:45:39.27
Bill
You know, I'm going to show up.

00:45:39.51
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:45:40.51
Bill
I'm not going to wreck their house. I'm not going to steal from them. Uh, you know, um, I'm not going to try to hurt anyone's feelings these days. If I do, I'm going to, you know, apologize.

00:45:47.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:48.32
Bill
But, uh, yeah, that's a, that's actually that that's, that's a good point.

00:45:48.86
Mike
Yep.

00:45:53.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:53.44
Bill
The trust is a, is a by-product of that reliability. i guess I didn't think about it that way, but, uh,

00:45:56.13
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah, well, you know, the the reliability comes first and then then the trust because we had to earn that shit back.

00:46:03.06
Bill
Right. Yeah. That's ah another, another good point. Yeah. And I yeah just think about too, that when, you know, how, um how, ah I don't know, I, I don't want to say shied away from it, but Larry did.

00:46:15.88
Bill
I mean, he was, ah Larry was hesitant, you know, and for anyone else, I mentioned it before my stepdad, um you know, cause hesitant of having me around.

00:46:18.86
Mike
Absolutely. Right.

00:46:23.69
Bill
I thought I was going to hurt my mom again, not physically, but you know, obviously, you know, hurt her emotionally and and all that stuff.

00:46:25.66
Mike
Uh-huh. Right. Yeah.

00:46:29.16
Bill
And so he was very hesitant, but I mean, thankfully,

00:46:31.59
Mike
I bet.

00:46:32.91
Bill
You know, in the year and, you know, a couple of months that I got to spend with him before he passed away, um you know, he not only trusted me, but, you know, I mean, it had actually told other people, you know, how proud he was of me.

00:46:36.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:42.84
Mike
Yeah.

00:46:43.97
Bill
And um it it meant a lot, you know, to be able to build that back up and ah relatively speaking, a short amount of time, you know.

00:46:46.65
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Sure. Earn that shit back.

00:46:53.92
Bill
Yeah, because he was, I mean, again, he was um a lot of people are important in my life, and he was he was certainly one of them.

00:46:57.20
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:46:58.44
Bill
so

00:46:58.78
Mike
Right.

00:46:58.99
Bill
um But, yeah, I mean, I wasn't necessarily, I didn't wake up every morning like, how am I going to win Larry's trust back today? But um I just kept doing what I was doing, like we were told.

00:47:06.32
Mike
Yeah, right. Mm hmm. Absolutely. yeah

00:47:09.07
Bill
you know we We do what we're supposed to do, and you know guess what?

00:47:09.64
Mike
right

00:47:11.91
Bill
we We end up with what we end up with. Good stuff.

00:47:15.76
Mike
absolutely

00:47:15.83
Bill
hey All right, man. So um what do you think? Break?

00:47:20.25
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:47:20.25
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:22.25
Mike
Yes. Let's move this shit along. All right. We'll be right back after these words from our sponsors, our trusted sponsors.

00:47:41.17
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Yeah, you know what? I would hope they're trusted sponsors, wouldn't they? Because two of them are

00:47:47.25
Mike
ah I don't know.

00:47:48.56
Bill
Yeah.

00:47:49.38
Mike
Right. Well, yeah, look that's what ah the other ones I probably don't trust.

00:47:54.05
Bill
yeah Right.

00:47:56.08
Mike
no

00:47:56.34
Bill
Yeah.

00:47:57.82
Mike
Now, now, now, I'm sure, you know, I'm sure they've been vetted by Spotify and all the other ones out there.

00:47:59.56
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:48:05.67
Mike
If you're listening iHeart and blah, blah, blah. Well, they took their money. So, you know, I guess like the the check's cleared.

00:48:09.90
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:48:12.22
Mike
So there's a level of trust there.

00:48:12.51
Bill
yeah

00:48:15.04
Bill
Well, and i and I told you before, I mean, the the amount of, I mean, because you could pick and what categories and stuff you did and did not want. um It took me a long and time to weed down all the categories, you know, so there alcohol and this and that and ah whatever things, things that I just didn't think, I mean, fit well with whatever whatever it was, you know, with our podcast.

00:48:27.95
Mike
Right.

00:48:34.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:35.26
Bill
And I'm going through Jesus Christ. There's not going be anyone else is going to want to, you know, we're going to good advertisements for, but you know, and it works.

00:48:37.16
Mike
yes

00:48:42.12
Bill
It's they you're right. I hopefully, hopefully Spotify or whoever the fuck does it. You know, obviously it's that's them a little bit.

00:48:48.55
Mike
Right. Well, again, the check's cleared. So, you know, there's something to be said for that because I've bounced a few checks in my life.

00:48:51.76
Bill
Yeah.

00:48:56.53
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. All right. So next one from God Grant Me.

00:49:03.02
Mike
Hmm.

00:49:03.37
Bill
We need to look at two or yeah, from God Grant Me. just ah We need to look at two main things. First, we pay attention to what makes us feel happy. Second, we ask other people for feedback on what we do well.

00:49:12.26
Mike
Hmm.

00:49:16.15
Bill
Yeah. And my question to you was, at what point do you think in your sobriety, were you comfortable following your own instincts?

00:49:27.24
Mike
Hmm. I'll let you know where it happens.

00:49:30.15
Bill
hey So, I mean, let's let's look at those two things first. You know, we we pay attention to to what makes us happy and then ask other people for feedback. um Do you, did you do that at all?

00:49:42.06
Bill
Or, I mean, like, ask for feedback?

00:49:44.20
Mike
I mean,

00:49:45.24
Bill
yeah

00:49:48.00
Mike
pay attention to what makes me happy. um Only in the sense of You know, this the the whole thing of, you know, doing for others makes our life better, that sort of thing.

00:50:00.50
Bill
Right.

00:50:01.07
Mike
um Getting the the joy from that. Again, the you know, the earning the trust, being responsible, having people look to me for stability. I mean, that those are, you know, the things that make me happy. I mean...

00:50:13.91
Mike
you know, no, my instincts are to make me happy. I want to feel good. I'm going to take this drug. I'm going to take this drink. I'm going to take this substance and make myself feel better.

00:50:25.20
Mike
You know, that's my fucking instinct. No, I don't trust that shit.

00:50:27.04
Bill
right

00:50:28.55
Mike
Um, just that's the whole point of doing all this. So I, you know, we're not, i mean, um, you know, the fourth step, right? And the 12 and 12 talks about we've been given these God-given instincts, but we've got to, you know, we can't be ruled by them. You know, the fight fight or flight shit and all that.

00:50:49.18
Mike
um You know, I don't want to fight and I don't want to run away. um You know, so, okay, shit. Well, then what do I do?

00:50:59.77
Mike
ah

00:50:59.83
Bill
Right.

00:51:00.43
Mike
I, you know, okay, well then I need to get past that fear or get past that anger or whatever. And, um, yeah, you know, learn a new way to deal with things, not my fucking instincts, you know, yes, self-preservation and all that, but with us, we go too far with it, and, you know, we want to feel good all the time, we want to get what we get, the easiest way to get it, and, you know, that's all instinctual shit, um, yeah, so, no, I don't fucking trust my instincts, I trust these principles and these goddamn whatever, the

00:51:28.50
Bill
very

00:51:37.03
Mike
run our lives that we have today. That's the shit I trust. Power is greater than myself. To get back to the reading.

00:51:43.69
Bill
Right.

00:51:45.33
Mike
um Yeah. yeah no No, I don't fucking trust my instincts. No.

00:51:51.77
Bill
No, I do not.

00:51:53.83
Mike
Nope.

00:51:54.98
Bill
And you know what? In thinking about it that way, it's kind of funny because so, so really in, uh, in, in, uh, this is probably going sound stupid, but our, our instincts really aren't ours anymore. Right.

00:52:06.63
Bill
I mean, the things that, that come across that we might look at that you're, want to say normal people, but you know what mean?

00:52:06.80
Mike
Right.

00:52:12.62
Bill
your Your everyday individual might look at, you know, us following our instincts are probably more of things that have been ingrained in us over the last 15 years that have now become our second nature, not necessarily our, they're not our, the instincts that we're born with.

00:52:22.45
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:28.10
Bill
They're the instincts that we've learned over the years. Is that?

00:52:30.02
Mike
Yes.

00:52:30.88
Bill
Okay.

00:52:30.98
Mike
Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. I think that's what I was trying to say.

00:52:36.78
Bill
i was I was trying to get get it straight in my own head, thinking think it that's what you said was perfect. I got it, but i'm just trying I was trying to take up a couple of things and just make it you know kind of make it right in my own head to make sure I understood I'm understanding myself.

00:52:48.18
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:50.23
Bill
Because, um yeah, really, I mean, the...

00:52:50.80
Mike
Right.

00:52:53.21
Bill
Because our our our instincts, my instinct is to fuck everyone else. What do I want and need right now?

00:53:00.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:00.62
Bill
And I don't care about the consequence. Whatever it is, um it will be dealt with or it won't be.

00:53:02.81
Mike
Right.

00:53:06.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:06.27
Bill
and you know Or I just keep kicking that fucking can down the road like we said before.

00:53:09.53
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:10.53
Bill
And sooner or later, I'll catch up to the can and I'll have to fucking deal with it.

00:53:10.63
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:13.25
Bill
But it it's not today.

00:53:13.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:14.34
Bill
know?

00:53:14.70
Mike
all Right.

00:53:16.29
Bill
yeah There's always tomorrow to deal with that fucking garbage.

00:53:19.51
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:19.65
Bill
Right. I'm not I'm never going have to deal with this person anymore. So let's fuck them over. And then, you know, next, you know, next Wednesday, I run into him again.

00:53:24.18
Mike
Right.

00:53:26.44
Bill
Oh, hello there.

00:53:27.20
Mike
yeah hey

00:53:27.36
Bill
Hello. Hi there.

00:53:30.20
Mike
right

00:53:31.59
Bill
But yeah, so these are all um our instincts now um are are all learned behavior in a positive way that.

00:53:37.24
Mike
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:53:40.17
Bill
Well, okay. Write that down, folks. that's that's what we That's what we call a revelation. I don't know. I'm kind of mind blown by it if I think hopefully somebody else out there is too, because that's a crazy thought when I just thought about it. I really don't.

00:53:52.89
Bill
and And thank you for bringing that up. that I mean, we don't we don't follow our own instincts anymore.

00:53:56.67
Mike
no

00:53:57.05
Bill
its it's It's really good. are Again, they're the these fight or flight instincts now or actions are, I like the self-preservation too, because that, you know, I mean, that that that is what it is.

00:54:07.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:09.16
Bill
Everyone's got that, you know.

00:54:10.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:10.57
Bill
um But, but yeah, that's like.

00:54:11.90
Mike
But again, but yeah, not the way we deal with it now is, okay, I got to look out for the next guy to protect myself.

00:54:21.45
Bill
Right.

00:54:21.49
Mike
our Again, don't make doesn't make any goddamn sense, but there it is.

00:54:26.41
Bill
Right. Yeah. Well, that was deep thoughts with sober, not mature. No, I really do. I like that.

00:54:36.88
Bill
That's a I don't know. That's a so kind of a huge fucking positive in my head. I'm like, ooh, all this evilness that kind of we've we've thankfully maybe masked on, masked over, but, you know, cover it up and paint it over with other good shit over these years.

00:54:41.60
Mike
All right.

00:54:48.97
Bill
So I like that.

00:54:48.99
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:54:51.06
Bill
I really do. All right, so next one from God Grant Me. If I need to share negative comments or ideas, I will balance balance each one with five positives.

00:54:59.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:03.72
Bill
Ugh.

00:55:04.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:06.15
Bill
Gross.

00:55:06.98
Mike
Right. Well, okay, let's let's cut out the middle, man. Let's just not do the negative shit so we don't have to do the five positive ones. Let's just do one positive one and be done with it.

00:55:16.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:55:19.28
Bill
that's see that boy That's even better.

00:55:20.56
Mike
that'

00:55:20.60
Bill
See, the...

00:55:20.96
Mike
That's my lazy ass. Right.

00:55:22.53
Bill
Well, you know what?

00:55:22.87
Mike
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

00:55:24.11
Bill
Okay, so so yes, um but lazy in a good way because the the easier, softer way for once, this might be the only time ever that the easier, softer way is actually the best way around this because

00:55:28.10
Mike
great

00:55:36.32
Mike
Right. do the right thing the first fucking time. and yeah

00:55:41.24
Bill
then you don't have to do the rework at the end.

00:55:42.96
Mike
Yep.

00:55:43.77
Bill
Yeah, if I don't if i don't piss somebody ah

00:55:44.68
Mike
Five to one. Fuck that.

00:55:46.14
Bill
yeah

00:55:46.72
Mike
Yep.

00:55:48.00
Bill
yeah Just just keep keep saying nice shit all the time, and I don't have to, i't have to paint again, paint over it with with five nice things. It's like he didn't say anything bad. Just keep on doing what you're doing.

00:55:58.03
Mike
help

00:56:02.08
Bill
i I remember reading that and every time every year that it comes around, I'm sure I do the same thing. Like, fuck that, man. I don't want to have to do that. we

00:56:10.79
Mike
Right.

00:56:11.54
Bill
We say it all on time. you know I mean, we' we try not to do all these fucking bad things because we don't. We have no desire to fucking apologize to people all the time.

00:56:16.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Fix it and make it. God, fuck all that.

00:56:25.77
Bill
And, you know, i I will. I will apologize if I do something wrong, but I i try really hard not to. I think that's what we agreed on. and Both of us agreed on that same thing was that we don't want to do anything wrong because we don't have to go through that extra work.

00:56:32.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:37.54
Mike
Right.

00:56:38.23
Bill
Five things to cover up one fuck up.

00:56:38.82
Mike
Uh huh.

00:56:40.95
Bill
yeah So this reminded me of one, this was actually one new one that i that I wrote down. um This was, I believe from this week, possibly last week, but um also from God grant me.

00:56:51.74
Bill
And it said, what are three things I could do to improve the quality of my recovery today? Just kind of reminded me of, as we were talking about that, but do you think in that sense, and it's just the the way I wrote, or the reason I wrote that down is that, um I mean, i think we always say that we could do more.

00:56:56.77
Mike
Hmm.

00:57:07.54
Bill
i mean, that

00:57:08.10
Mike
Of course.

00:57:08.37
Bill
That might, that might be the, you know, the obvious statement, but um even if it's one thing, do you, anything right off the top of your head that you think that improve the quality of your recovery of what your recovery is today?

00:57:19.73
Bill
Right.

00:57:20.34
Mike
a Um, well, I mean, no, one does leap to mind. Um, you know, is, is helping the next guy again, you know, doing something for somebody else.

00:57:29.11
Bill
Right.

00:57:31.16
Mike
God damn it. No. Um, but yeah, I mean, that would improve the quality of my recovery. Um, I don't get the opportunities that I used to, to work with newer guys and stuff, um, as much. And,

00:57:46.25
Mike
you know, yeah, I would love to do it more. i just, again, the opportunity's not there. um But, you know, i I go to my home group. I try. i definitely, you know, try to reach out. You know, a new guy walks in. Hey, how you doing? You know, blah, blah, blah, whatever.

00:58:02.07
Mike
But again, it's... but again it's I can't go drag people off bar stools. Right. So, you know, I, they got to come to me and, you know, um, I wish more would, um, that would definitely improve the quality of my recovery, but I'm powerless over that particular part.

00:58:08.43
Bill
Right.

00:58:22.21
Mike
They got to come to me. So yeah, you know, yes, I wish it would improve the quality.

00:58:23.57
Bill
Right.

00:58:27.42
Mike
I wish I had more opportunity, but hey what are you going to do?

00:58:33.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:34.32
Bill
I just like the way he did that. yeah What are you going to do? What are you going to do?

00:58:37.19
Mike
Right. Right. But I'm not going to let it beat myself up and I'm not, you know, I'm not going to diminish the quality of my recovery because whatever, because I don't have enough of that.

00:58:47.26
Bill
Right.

00:58:48.99
Mike
You know, I just, I continue to have the best quality I can have with what I have.

00:58:54.59
Bill
Right.

00:58:55.32
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:55.55
Bill
And, and the same thing when I, when I was asking that question, I thought about, you know, um, I would assume, you know, even if I only, only went to one meeting a week, which I'm still, you know, like I said, I'm toying with that, with that idea.

00:59:07.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:07.39
Bill
Um, you know, if nothing else, just to, you know, pop into a meeting because it's, uh, I, I knew it wouldn't hurt me, you know, it's, and I think it'd be good for me, you know?

00:59:13.09
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:59:15.55
Bill
Um, so, but with that too, it, it, again, you're, that's the whole point of, you know, putting yourself in in front of people, giving yourself possible opportunities, like you said, cause that's a, I mean, I, I agree with that.

00:59:24.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:26.84
Bill
You know, I enjoy anytime somebody asks me for help or, you know, when we've been asked, you know, to do something, you know, for whether it's even, you know, show up on another podcast or, um, you know, like, like Mara, we got, got to do that or we're, you know, do help, help the heating center, whatever the case is.

00:59:30.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:36.86
Mike
Right.

00:59:40.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:59:43.41
Mike
Right.

00:59:44.04
Bill
You know, when either we're asked as ah as a group, um you know, or as a couple of, you know, the two of us or um individually, it is nice. and i And I agree with you.

00:59:51.68
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:59:52.01
Bill
I mean, it's anything like that. The fellowship, the interaction, helping another alcoholic, that's that's the thing.

00:59:57.10
Mike
Right.

00:59:58.00
Bill
That's the thing with this thing.

01:00:00.01
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:01.15
Bill
So, yeah, I mean, i know it, in worst case, I know it wouldn't hurt it. So it means it would probably help. And my recovery wouldn't stay the same if I helped somebody else. It would have to get better, right?

01:00:10.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:10.85
Bill
Yeah.

01:00:11.47
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:12.41
Bill
Even if the person was a piece of fucking shit, there's no bad examples.

01:00:14.62
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right.

01:00:17.19
Bill
yeah So, yeah, I mean, other than that, I mean, I think I, you know, it might help you. A fourth book.

01:00:24.94
Mike
ah

01:00:26.48
Bill
I just couldn't help myself.

01:00:29.94
Mike
Yeah. You know what?

01:00:31.19
Bill
Yeah.

01:00:31.33
Mike
Help you? A fifth or sixth one.

01:00:33.74
Bill
Yeah, you know, what if i I could, you know, and there's a it wouldn't.

01:00:36.69
Mike
enjoy Yeah, we all could.

01:00:37.21
Bill
ah

01:00:40.04
Bill
Yeah, it's just it's one of those things that like there was um when I was.

01:00:43.26
Mike
I could get up at three in the morning and sit there for four hours and fucking read books.

01:00:48.84
Bill
So, you know, and in every every once in a while when we, and I don't think it's extreme what, I know, I think I spend a little bit more time than you, not and I don't mean that I do more things, um but I just think the, yours is, you know, a couple of books.

01:00:49.44
Mike
I could.

01:01:03.33
Bill
Yeah, mine's minds the four. It's not a big deal. um But I think that, I don't know, is yours 10, probably 15 minutes, 20 minutes? Maybe we do.

01:01:09.96
Mike
yeah Something like that. Right.

01:01:11.20
Bill
So maybe we do spend the same amount of time, but just maybe you're a quicker or a longer reader than I am, or I'm quicker because I read four, who knows. But, um you know, so it's, I don't think what we do is extravagant or is extreme or anything like that.

01:01:18.16
Mike
Right.

01:01:24.24
Bill
And um I mean, yes, I get up to make sure I have time to do all of that, which includes, you know, I get on Facebook and um I mean, I get in Instagram and I post a reading and a couple of like you know things promoting this thing that we're doing here.

01:01:28.16
Mike
Right.

01:01:35.83
Bill
Um, but I, I make time for that, you know, but we've had people on here.

01:01:37.96
Mike
Right.

01:01:40.28
Bill
I've heard plenty of episodes and, and again, same thing. People like I get up and I meditate for 45 minutes and I do this and I'm, I'm like, wow, you know what?

01:01:46.60
Mike
Mm

01:01:49.03
Bill
I'm like, and I look back at, cause everything I have to do when, when I, if I get to be someplace, I, I backtrack. I'm like, what, what time do you need me there?

01:01:56.99
Mike
hmm.

01:01:57.76
Bill
And then I backtrack.

01:01:59.02
Mike
Right.

01:01:59.32
Bill
And the only difference between now versus when I was working in an office is I and just take out the commute time. I to worry about the commute anymore.

01:02:05.91
Mike
Mm

01:02:07.46
Bill
But yeah, I mean, i know I'm not getting up. I don't want to get up any earlier.

01:02:10.47
Mike
hmm. Right.

01:02:12.71
Bill
and just don't. um But...

01:02:14.05
Mike
Right. I'm grateful that I don't have to sit there and meditate for 45 minutes every fucking a day.

01:02:20.89
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? I mean, for, for people that we've talked to and in things that I've listened to, I, people get a lot of benefit out of it.

01:02:26.19
Mike
Oh, I'm sure.

01:02:27.75
Bill
People get benefits out of, you know, yoga and all those different things. I just don't have any, I don't know, desire to do it.

01:02:31.17
Mike
Right?

01:02:33.37
Bill
I mean, I, I get, I get a benefit from walking through the fucking woods.

01:02:33.47
Mike
Mm-mm.

01:02:37.49
Bill
I got two things on two things on that too.

01:02:37.71
Mike
Right.

01:02:40.28
Bill
Um, you know, but in that to me, I, it's not really a meditation, but I guess it is, you know, I don't listen to music.

01:02:45.56
Mike
Sure. Oh, absolutely.

01:02:46.17
Bill
I don't, you know, I don't do anything, but I, I look at pretty shit and, um, I think, and I usually it's, it's never negative stuff. I'm never, whatever is going on. Cause we all got stuff that's on us, you know?

01:02:57.48
Bill
Um, but whatever it is, um I don't carry that with me when I'm doing that rarely, you know, it's something might cross my mind, but it just, I've got too much visual stimulation going on.

01:03:02.45
Mike
Right.

01:03:08.39
Bill
You know, to to sit there and get in my head about weird shit, you know.

01:03:11.70
Mike
right

01:03:12.85
Bill
But, um yeah, and I don't listen to music. I don't do anything like that. I listen to fucking shit podcasts like this. one do Thanks for listening, everyone.

01:03:21.10
Mike
Right. Exactly.

01:03:23.13
Bill
If you're listening while you're hiking, thank you.

01:03:23.35
Mike
Right.

01:03:24.77
Bill
Thank you very much.

01:03:26.47
Mike
Right. And I mean, you know, there you know i when I'm working, when I'm driving, um i mean, I'll go an hour, sometimes two. No radio, no podcast, no nothing.

01:03:34.14
Bill
Right.

01:03:36.09
Mike
Just me, quiet, driving, watching the road, blah, blah, blah. It's meditative in a way. Absolutely.

01:03:41.82
Bill
Right.

01:03:42.56
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:43.75
Bill
Yeah. Anything like that. I just don't have a, in either one of us, I I've never had it. I don't think you have either a structured time to just sit down and I'm going to meditate now.

01:03:51.55
Mike
No. Right.

01:03:55.52
Bill
Nope. Not, not today. i don't know.

01:03:57.25
Mike
no

01:03:57.38
Bill
I can't say not ever, but you know, never say never, but I, it's not, it's not high on my to-do list or whatever bucket list I may have. So.

01:04:05.79
Mike
right

01:04:06.99
Bill
right uh jump on over to something from keep it simple uh talking about moments um and that we remembered moments not days the action said something about looking back at the moments of your day and i had a thought was wondering if there was one moment today or in recent days that that you found either important profound or whatever and again you don't have to point out the moment um But do you have that the the the idea around this was the fact of, again, that we look at, we remember moments, not days.

01:04:35.28
Bill
And I mean, I agree with that. I think you do, but I'm not going to put words in your mouth.

01:04:38.50
Mike
Oh, yeah.

01:04:38.68
Bill
So let's let's start there. You look more moments, not days, correct? or yeah

01:04:41.43
Mike
No, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's, it goes back to what we've always said that we learned very early. There's no bad days, you know, there but so it goes the other way too.

01:04:49.14
Bill
Right.

01:04:51.57
Mike
There's, there's no good days. ah

01:04:54.06
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:04:55.59
Mike
You know, there are just, there's moments and those moments make up the day, but yeah, the important things are the moments. Absolutely. You know, I mean, it, any of us can look at any 24 hour period and, you know, yes, we're going to spend hopefully some of it sleeping.

01:05:13.32
Mike
Um, you know, there's been times where I haven't, um, chemically induced, of usually um, usually, you know, but occasionally, i mean, there's been, I've gone 24 hours without sleeping sober.

01:05:18.40
Bill
Right.

01:05:28.65
Bill
Right.

01:05:28.75
Mike
Um, you know, not a lot, thankfully, but it's it's happened. Um, Yeah, but, you know, and within any 24-hour period, there's good moments and bad moments. You know, there's some spectacular moments. There's some pretty shitty moments.

01:05:45.01
Mike
um But, yeah, it's just moments. and And the beautiful thing about a moment is is it doesn't fucking last. Mm-hmm.

01:05:53.34
Bill
Yeah.

01:05:53.55
Mike
No. No.

01:05:54.66
Bill
Yep. Like you've always said, even that the the the really, really good and spectacular and monumental moments. um Yeah, they don't last either. And if they if they did, I don't know that that wouldn't be good either.

01:06:02.07
Mike
no

01:06:04.78
Bill
i mean, just over one extremes, either one of the the sides of the extremes would be good all the time.

01:06:05.85
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:06:11.33
Mike
Well, I mean, that's that's the obsession of this disease.

01:06:11.36
Bill
I mean, I couldn't.

01:06:14.45
Mike
as We're trying to have those spectacular moments constantly.

01:06:15.02
Bill
that right

01:06:18.11
Bill
but ah

01:06:20.93
Mike
How'd that work out for us?

01:06:22.45
Bill
um let me Let me take a look back. Hang on one second.

01:06:24.26
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:06:25.01
Bill
that day you no um Look, I'm remembering a lot of moments. And I'm saying no. definitely Definitely did not work out well for me.

01:06:33.03
Mike
Right.

01:06:33.84
Bill
But I, you know, I agree with you. And it and it is. I mean, there are there are a lot of times, and I've said it before, and I posted it on Instagram wherever. You it pretty good day. And it was.

01:06:41.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:42.10
Bill
I mean, it wasn't, i don't I don't know that there has been, again, any one day, literally or or specifically since I've been sober. I know there's a lot of times, you know, prior to that,

01:06:53.31
Bill
I deemed an entire day or it's going to been months, entire months of my life that were, that were shitty, you know?

01:06:59.78
Mike
Right.

01:07:00.19
Bill
Um, but it wasn't, there was a lot of bad fucking moments, self-induced, no doubt.

01:07:03.14
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:07:04.55
Bill
Um, you know, no question. Um, but yeah, even since, you know, since being sober, I mean, um, I haven't had just any 24 hour period that was, you know, spectacular from minute one to, you know, all the way through the day.

01:07:15.54
Mike
he

01:07:18.13
Bill
It just doesn't happen that way. But,

01:07:19.80
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:20.77
Bill
you know the When these moments happen, um they're pretty fucking cool. you know

01:07:25.04
Mike
Yes, they are.

01:07:25.88
Bill
and i don't know. i i think i want I know just going along, whatever this life is of mine, and I'm living it, it's fine, and I'm i'm cool, and I got whatever going on.

01:07:39.00
Bill
I don't mean I'm cool. You know I'm not cool. But...

01:07:42.09
Mike
Oh, we know.

01:07:42.94
Bill
I was going to say before you said that, I'm cool with what's going on in my life. And then, you know, something, you know, really cool happens, like really cool. And you're like, oh, look at that.

01:07:50.91
Mike
Right.

01:07:51.66
Bill
Look at that moment, you know.

01:07:53.08
Mike
Right.

01:07:53.20
Bill
Or

01:07:53.89
Mike
And then you stub your toe. Right. Yeah.

01:07:56.59
Bill
fall over a coffee table or whatever it is.

01:07:56.85
Mike
Nice gash. right

01:07:59.80
Bill
Oh, side note, I went to the doctor the other day.

01:08:01.66
Mike
yeah

01:08:02.08
Bill
um Two things. i was kind of mad because he didn't he didn't like be. Oh, it's a good looking wound.

01:08:07.03
Mike
then

01:08:08.27
Bill
Didn't do that to me again.

01:08:08.39
Mike
ahha

01:08:09.33
Bill
You know, but.

01:08:09.60
Mike
nice gash

01:08:10.71
Bill
Yeah. yeah But no, seriously, what he said, he goes, ah he goes wow, he goes, it's healing really well because they measure and they take pictures of it every time. And I mean, it had been a month since I was in there because i was gone for a couple of weeks.

01:08:22.35
Mike
Right.

01:08:22.53
Bill
But they actually switched it to, I was having these this silver-based bandage, whatever the bandages were, it was kind of basically it takes... moisture and drainage whatever out of it. I mean, it's, it's healed up. It it looks nothing like it used to.

01:08:35.05
Mike
Right.

01:08:35.13
Bill
um But they just started, they gave me this, some they're actually like these small patches. So you take little pieces of this, it's collagen now they're putting in there you know, obviously um for the, it's at the point now he goes, basically he goes, we're just at the final stages of getting it healed.

01:08:43.70
Mike
Hmm.

01:08:51.41
Bill
um He said, this col collagen is going to help, you know, rebuild skin cells in the, basically the, yeah, The nice gash that's still there, um which is not that big anymore. It really isn't.

01:09:00.62
Mike
Right.

01:09:00.73
Bill
you know um It was fucking horrible before. But um but yeah, but he was seen he's impressed with with how much is healed. And I think it's been, whatever, it's been month and a half, I think, since I first went in there.

01:09:12.04
Bill
um And I can tell you know as I'm changing the bandage. but

01:09:14.45
Mike
Right.

01:09:15.26
Bill
But yeah, he does this, uh, does this deep reading and I mean, he, he dug in a pretty good cause it's still what made me think about it. I mean, obviously what you said, but, um, it's, I get these slight pain moments over the last, it was yeah.

01:09:26.18
Bill
Yesterday when I went yesterday morning, once the Laticane wore off, you could feel just, I get these sharp twinge pains cause he did.

01:09:27.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:32.45
Bill
He, he has to do it. You know, I has to clean shit out to get, get new growth and whatever in there.

01:09:34.17
Mike
Right.

01:09:37.38
Bill
But, but anyhow, yeah.

01:09:37.44
Mike
Yeah, we understand that.

01:09:39.63
Bill
Yeah.

01:09:39.85
Mike
Clean out the shit to get new growth? Hey!

01:09:42.37
Bill
Oh, look at, see, look at, look at how you just, and you know what? You're welcome, everyone. If I would have wounded myself, you know, think we wouldn't been able to use that analogy. So there we go.

01:09:51.72
Mike
Right. he

01:09:52.96
Bill
yeah and just I just hope to never do all Huskies. I hope to never do that again.

01:09:57.81
Mike
ah

01:09:58.04
Bill
Oh, did I tell you that the funniest thing is when I went in there the first time as the last two times are morning appointments. So there's barely anyone there.

01:10:05.54
Mike
Right.

01:10:05.64
Bill
um But the the first time I went in, whatever it was, it was like a two o'clock appointment um in the entire it's the hallway areas where the waiting room ah or waiting area is.

01:10:13.97
Mike
ahha

01:10:14.24
Bill
um And I swear to God, there wasn't a person in that hallway area that was under 60s, mid 60s, probably in their 70s.

01:10:22.95
Mike
Right. Robert Wagner hanging out.

01:10:24.48
Bill
And I'm like, Yeah, exactly. You know, wheelchairs and walkers. And I'm not shitting you, you know?

01:10:29.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:31.20
Bill
And I'm like, Jesus Christ, this what i what um this is an old person's thing.

01:10:31.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:35.42
Bill
You know, usually, and I get it.

01:10:35.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:10:36.91
Bill
You know, when you get to a certain point, you hurt yourself if you don't heal well.

01:10:40.17
Mike
Right.

01:10:40.21
Bill
I just fucked myself bad enough where I got to hang around with like really old people. I'm old.

01:10:43.53
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:10:44.48
Bill
You know, but I'm like, like i'm I'm like a whippersnapper being in there in the the fucking room.

01:10:48.52
Mike
See, there you go. That's a positive spin on it.

01:10:51.23
Bill
Yeah. Look at that positive.

01:10:53.22
Mike
I'm the youngest. I'm a kid in the room.

01:10:57.08
Bill
At 56, I'm a whippersnapper at the wound the wound care clinic.

01:10:59.19
Mike
That's right. the fourth

01:11:03.17
Bill
Ah, see? A moment. There's a positive moment today of it.

01:11:05.43
Mike
Yep, there's a moment.

01:11:06.81
Bill
yeah Regardless of what else happened today, I just got i just got my moment. so um All right. like i got I got one more here from Touchstones. Now I'm saying that properly. Touchstones.

01:11:18.23
Bill
um It's true that relationship... Wow. Let me start over.

01:11:22.38
Mike
all right.

01:11:22.54
Bill
Touchstones. Touchstones.

01:11:26.59
Bill
It's true that relationships are difficult at times, right? Then it says the only thing more difficult is having none.

01:11:35.64
Mike
Right.

01:11:35.85
Bill
Do you agree or disagree?

01:11:38.41
Mike
Oh, God damn it. I agree. oh Curmudgeon old hermit agrees. Yes. Yes.

01:11:46.43
Bill
yeah

01:11:46.88
Mike
yeah Relationships are a pain in the ass, but God damn it. Not having any is worse.

01:11:52.73
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's, um, God, even, even in the worst of, of times, even though I was treating people like, like garbage, I mean, I still had a few people in my life.

01:12:01.67
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:12:02.52
Bill
Um, I mean, really when, uh, I don't know, could, could you even imagine that? Did you have, well, let me ask you this. Did you have any times in your life when you, when you had nobody to turn to, I mean, and in your, in your roughest times?

01:12:14.25
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, there is always one or two suckers out there. Right. Yes, I know.

01:12:19.85
Bill
Yeah, right, right.

01:12:20.79
Mike
Mm-hmm. right yes i know yeah Yeah, yeah, there was always somebody, you know, one or two, even at the worst.

01:12:31.20
Bill
Right.

01:12:31.30
Mike
of You know, I clearly wasn't getting what I wanted from them, which is good. Yeah, for them.

01:12:39.14
Mike
which is good oh

01:12:40.41
Bill
Right.

01:12:41.13
Mike
yeah for them sir

01:12:43.05
Bill
Right.

01:12:44.39
Mike
Um, yeah, but no, not, never completely pretty fucking close, but you know, and I mean, you know, the human being thing. Okay. I mean, I was at a homeless shelter for a while.

01:12:57.35
Mike
Um, you know, but I mean, yeah there's that guy across the homeless shelter.

01:13:01.27
Bill
Right.

01:13:03.26
Mike
That's it's somebody, you know, and I, you know, and probably vice versa, man, I was that guy across the room for somebody else.

01:13:05.04
Bill
right

01:13:11.88
Mike
I mean, No matter how bad it is and whatever, you know, we're not islands. We were human beings. We're social creatures and we find something somewhere.

01:13:23.19
Mike
Always do.

01:13:24.47
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's ah I and when when I read that statement, I mean, it's, you know, again, kind of a kind of a thinking thing, but true.

01:13:32.79
Mike
hmm.

01:13:33.24
Bill
I mean, I couldn't I didn't think as deeply as or as we're talking about it right now. But I really I couldn't imagine in, you know, having thought about that, even in ah the worst of times, that there was never a moment when I had nobody that I could turn to.

01:13:45.32
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:13:48.48
Bill
like you said, to, to your exact point, um, I wasn't necessarily getting what i what I needed quote unquote, or wanted from people.

01:13:55.38
Mike
Right. wild it Wanted.

01:13:57.01
Bill
Yeah, I know.

01:13:57.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:57.95
Bill
That's why I said quote unquote needed. um you know, but yeah, it certainly wasn't getting what I wanted and was able to maybe use and manipulate people, um, as I, as I wanted to, ah you know, all the time, but, but there were still, there was people there, you know, I would,

01:14:05.12
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:07.50
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was still there. Right.

01:14:13.27
Bill
Right. Yeah. And same, same deal. I mean, if you're in the homeless shelter, you know, some dude across the, across the hallway or across the, in the bunk, right across the, you know, the, the, whatever it was walkway from your aisle.

01:14:23.39
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:26.22
Bill
Um, again, like you just said, that's, that's still somebody, right.

01:14:26.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:29.29
Mike
Yeah, it is. Right. Yeah.

01:14:31.66
Bill
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, sometimes I like being out the middle of nowhere in some of these, you know, cabins and, you know, things and stuff like that.

01:14:36.11
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:14:38.23
Bill
But um i I couldn't go. I don't know, just sometimes just going to the grocery store. You know, I mean, you're you're getting human interaction with people.

01:14:43.90
Mike
Right.

01:14:45.85
Bill
Sometimes being on a hiking trail, um I don't necessarily want to be engulfed by people.

01:14:45.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:51.14
Bill
um But, you know, again, you can shoot the shit with people here and there.

01:14:51.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:53.66
Bill
You know, these minimal conversations are, you know, hey, how you doing?

01:14:53.74
Mike
Sure.

01:14:57.00
Bill
It's a rough trail, you know, blah, blah, blah.

01:14:57.54
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:14:59.26
Bill
You know, it's just saying something, joking to somebody like, you don't look that doesn't look like it's fun coming back up.

01:14:59.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:04.16
Bill
You know, when I'm walking down, you know, half a mile in this thing, you're like, it's worth it, though.

01:15:04.17
Mike
yeah Right.

01:15:07.90
Bill
I'm like, OK, that's all I need to hear.

01:15:09.06
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

01:15:09.77
Bill
You know, reminds me of recovery shit. You know, when I these few trails that I had literally had to go down to these fucking gorgeous didn't have to, but I wanted to.

01:15:17.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:17.76
Bill
Why not?

01:15:18.13
Mike
Right.

01:15:18.24
Bill
You know?

01:15:19.12
Mike
You got to.

01:15:19.46
Bill
And, uh, yeah, I mean, ah I'm there.

01:15:19.81
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:15:21.56
Bill
Why the fuck wouldn't I? What's the goddamn point, you know? Um, but yeah, it's like, uh, huh, it's worth it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is worth it too. It's going to be easy.

01:15:28.94
Mike
Yep.

01:15:29.30
Bill
No worth it. Yes.

01:15:31.00
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yes.

01:15:32.47
Bill
All right. So speaking of a hiking stuff, let's do a kind of a funny one to begin with. And then out then I'll get into the other one that is not a feel good story. Um, so I read this one, this one story and I didn't, I didn't even pull up the article or anything like that, but There was, and I can't remember what um hiking place it was, I think in California, but I don't remember now.

01:15:50.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:51.42
Bill
It might've been one of a cold weather area or cold i weather, but either way, but um the headline was, or the story was about hikers that got lost by following fake trail signs.

01:16:02.44
Bill
Okay.

01:16:02.76
Mike
o

01:16:03.51
Bill
So um you've, have you ever, and um I don't, You know, this is their goal hiking trails, but have you ever gone on a on a mapped out or marked up trail, whether it's pavement or whatever type of thing like hiking type of trail or walking trail?

01:16:16.84
Mike
um Every day they're called highways.

01:16:21.32
Bill
Now, I know, but I'm just talking about like with that part of it, because what?

01:16:22.35
Mike
Right. I know. I know. um No, no, I don't think I have.

01:16:26.18
Bill
Okay. Well, and and what they'll do is, you know, sometimes it'll say follow the orange markers, follow the green markers, whatever the case is.

01:16:31.84
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:16:33.53
Bill
There's certain certain hiking trails that'll be, you know, more structured where, um like when when I went down by, when I was in Oklahoma City, um my friend Morgan and I went on this one trail and they actually had these triangular signs with the logo on it for the trail.

01:16:43.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:47.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:47.43
Bill
And that was on certain trees, so you knew where you were going. that's how that was marked. Some of them, like you'll be, it's like this trail is marked with orange markings. But they're, when you walk in, you'll see them. And they they're either rectangular, they could be square, they could be triangles, they could be whatever it is.

01:17:03.30
Bill
They're all the same shape and they're all the same color. And, you know, they're that way.

01:17:05.58
Mike
Right.

01:17:07.53
Bill
um Rarely have I ever seen, the only time I saw a trail that was marked with paint, was when I was in Prescott, Arizona, this one trail, I went on a lot of rocks and stuff like that, that you were walking over um these big, huge rocks and areas.

01:17:19.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:22.48
Bill
And they put like dash marks. So you'd know where this is, where you got to go to get to the next part of the trail type of thing.

01:17:27.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:28.59
Bill
So, but apparently what, and they showed a picture of it. Okay. The, one of this, like this big tree, I'm only laughing because it's so stupid. If I saw this, I would never follow it.

01:17:39.39
Mike
ah

01:17:39.68
Bill
um It was a blue arrow. Like, so somebody just painted an arrow that went to the right, like literally a line with an arrow.

01:17:47.56
Mike
Yeah, right, right.

01:17:48.15
Bill
Okay. So it wasn't like something nailed on by, you know, the the park or whatever, just the fucking blue arrow. And what it, what it did was it took these, I think it was a father and possibly two, I think they were, they were teenage kids, but they weren't like young babies or anything like that.

01:18:04.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:04.63
Bill
But there was a family Um, and they followed these things and then ended up getting lost and had to get fucking rescued, you know? And I'm like, and just in my mind, I'm like, once again, I think, I don't know, but I think that anyone that's ever like watched a cartoon, um,

01:18:22.52
Bill
might realize that, you know, Wile Coyote just painted a, you know, a tunnel over there. Don't, don't go that way.

01:18:27.59
Mike
Right.

01:18:27.99
Bill
You know, that's kind of what, what ah reminded me of something along those lines.

01:18:30.19
Mike
Sure.

01:18:31.77
Bill
um But if you're, if you're going on a trail and all a sudden you got these regular markings, like I'm talking about, and all a sudden you have an arrow. i don't understand why people would follow an arrow, um but it just,

01:18:41.47
Mike
Well, all right. um I mean, you've heard the stories about people driving into lakes and shit because the GPS said turn right.

01:18:48.35
Bill
ah ah You know what? Good point. That's a, once again, once again, you know, a good, good point.

01:18:55.78
Mike
So there you go. That's how it happens.

01:18:59.04
Bill
Okay. And i I was trying to be, again, trying to be kind. but These people had, rather than just saying, these people had to be fucking idiots um to do that.

01:19:03.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:08.90
Bill
But um maybe that that is what it is. It's just, it's it's too it's too hard to try to sugarcoat it. I was trying to give, you know, an examples of possibly, what no. Yeah.

01:19:18.76
Mike
No. Turn right.

01:19:21.01
Bill
My

01:19:22.12
Mike
Okay.

01:19:24.64
Bill
bye i I was trying to put a little faith in humanity, but that that just, yeah, that didn't work. Okay. So um did you hear about the the hikers that got killed?

01:19:34.84
Mike
I don't think so.

01:19:36.54
Bill
Okay. So this was in Arkansas, you know, of all places. One of my one of my favorite states, by the way. um And it was not that it not that it matters, but it was on the other side of the state.

01:19:49.76
Mike
Right?

01:19:49.80
Bill
The first thing I'm looking at I'm like, um like what if i I've never fucking been there, have I? It was called, I think it's Devil's Den State Park or whatever it is. They don't even have the...

01:19:59.35
Mike
Cool.

01:20:00.38
Bill
Yeah. They got a lot of cool trail names and stuff like that. We've probably seen some of that I've, that I posted and some of the shit is just, yeah, very cool.

01:20:04.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:07.73
Bill
I still, speaking of Arkansas, I will get down to that glory hole trail.

01:20:12.26
Mike
yeah

01:20:13.27
Bill
The only reason, the only reason I was going to go last time when I was at the the last, what I was going to go last time, i had it planned out for that Saturday or Sunday, um but it it rained so much.

01:20:16.17
Mike
Watch out for the arrows.

01:20:22.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:24.71
Bill
I didn't want to drive.

01:20:24.92
Mike
Right.

01:20:25.83
Bill
Literally, i was going to have to drive an hour and 15 minutes. It was fine. There's plenty of shit down there, but I'm like, if I'm getting it rained out, I want to stay close, you know?

01:20:32.63
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:33.14
Bill
And I did. I ended up, I hiked on, you know, this one mountain was fucking raining all day, but I am, I'm getting the glory hole at some point. So, yeah.

01:20:40.78
Mike
All right.

01:20:42.88
Bill
so um So, yeah, this was um Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday.

01:20:43.53
Mike
Goals, man. Goals.

01:20:48.74
Bill
might have been last weekend. I don't know.

01:20:50.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:50.49
Bill
But there was a the the guy, they they caught the guy. okay But what happened was um this family, it was a husband and wife with their two, yeah, it's called Devil's Den State Park. It's on the western side of Arkansas, July 26th or whatever day that was, last Saturday, I think.

01:21:07.12
Bill
Um, but the, it said the family would, they were fatally attacked while out hiking with their two daughters.

01:21:07.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:12.14
Bill
Okay. So the two fucking kids are there with them in this fucking cycle.

01:21:15.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:16.62
Bill
And I, I, they haven't really said what, but I'm getting the impression that he, that he knifed them.

01:21:21.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:22.14
Bill
Um, but the children, seven and nine years old were not harmed in the incident.

01:21:25.26
Mike
Oof. That's good.

01:21:26.30
Bill
Uh, thanks to the action of their mothers, please said, please, the mother took them to safety and then returned to help her husband. then And then, then she got killed.

01:21:32.24
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:21:33.84
Bill
Um, and basically what they, what they said was they saw, um, well, first of all, it said, um, it was in a remote area and I, I'm not getting the exact thing. I'm just by memory when I read it.

01:21:44.20
Mike
Right.

01:21:44.58
Bill
So remote area of the park, um, very, you know, kind of lot of, lot of brush and stuff around and no cell phone service. I'm like, well, That's 90% of the trails that I'm on.

01:21:54.84
Bill
Okay.

01:21:55.00
Mike
Right.

01:21:55.57
Bill
I mean, it just is what it is. It doesn't, you could be in, in the middle of like literally on a trail in the middle of a city when you get into this park.

01:21:57.02
Mike
right

01:22:02.73
Bill
Um, it's like that, you know, it's, they're desolate areas, you know, plenty of times, but, um,

01:22:06.21
Mike
yeah

01:22:09.05
Bill
what they said was is that they they saw the cameras and stuff i don't know however they the kids yelled for help whatever the case is but they found them and then um they checked cameras or whatever so they they saw the vehicle i think they saw the vehicle leaving and whatever they described the vehicle but the dude had either yeah either something put over it or duct tape put over his license plate so this was fucking planned you know

01:22:23.26
Mike
h

01:22:31.80
Mike
Right, right.

01:22:32.69
Bill
That he was going to do something. Now, the problem, though, well, first of all, they caught him. It took three, four days. i don't know where they caught him. doesn't matter. um But he said that this dude that they caught, James McMahon, 28 years old, um he was a fifth grade teacher in Broken Arrows, Oklahoma.

01:22:50.85
Bill
Okay.

01:22:51.24
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:51.99
Bill
Fucking teacher. He passed required background checks, whatever school district spokesman said, all that stuff.

01:22:55.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:57.45
Bill
You know, same deal as what you always hear. Like, he was like such a quiet young man.

01:23:01.13
Mike
Right.

01:23:02.08
Bill
um Again, I'm not laughing at the circumstance, but it's just everything you hear. oh yeah. Now it does say, OK, this one does say stab wounds. Yeah. Victims died from stab wounds and the murder weapon was a knife. OK, that's the first time i've I've read that part of it.

01:23:14.12
Bill
knives were recovered from the residence home so that's how they got that but um i mean i was just like i'm like first of all when i heard arkansas i'm like where the fuck was this you know again not that it matters you know where it was but then you're like you're like god what fucking happened you know and again this is there's they still don't have a motive they're hoping to i don't know kind of put together a piece together whatever the motive is i'll be honest with you i'd be shocked if there was I don't know, part of it, you know, the, the, the covered up license plates and whatever. I'm like, did this guy just go in there knowing that I want to fuck somebody up?

01:23:47.07
Bill
Um, or did he go in there specifically? Cause they keep making mentions that this family just moved to the area. Okay. Um, and then, um, the, this guy was from Oklahoma, but it's close ish to Oklahoma.

01:23:59.09
Mike
Sure.

01:23:59.27
Bill
I am, I can't remember where broken arrow is, but I think it's, I know it's on that side of Oklahoma on the Arkansas side towards that side.

01:24:04.02
Mike
Right. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

01:24:06.15
Bill
Um, in this, this park is towards the Western side, but again, air in the area, roughly in that area.

01:24:10.96
Mike
Sure.

01:24:12.29
Bill
Um, but they keep mentioning again, that this family, they just moved there and whatever, just getting settled, but whatever. So I'm like, okay, i And then I'm like, am I trying to make myself feel better? And I'm like, it's ridiculous. you know

01:24:23.80
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:24:23.80
Bill
That's number one. It doesn't matter. um All these different things. you know it's It reminded me of when I'm trying to figure out why people relapse. you know So I'm sitting here trying to figure out why people got killed in the park.

01:24:31.08
Mike
Right.

01:24:34.16
Bill
And the bottom line is that, I mean, I'm not going to stop hiking because some couple got killed. I think it's fucking tragic.

01:24:40.13
Mike
Right.

01:24:40.22
Bill
It's ridiculous. And even if there was a, let's just say, okay, so even if something happened where this was a revenge killing,

01:24:47.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:48.44
Bill
You know, where I am not going to say deserve, but let's say of some sort of revenge killing.

01:24:52.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:52.90
Bill
It's still it's still brutal, you know, and do it in front of the kids and all that stuff.

01:24:54.67
Mike
Right.

01:24:56.78
Bill
But even if it was random, am I going to stop? I mean, I could be walking. You could be walking down the street. I could be walking.

01:25:01.71
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:02.54
Bill
I mean, a downtown Valparaiso, for God's sakes, would be nice by some fucking maniac, you know.

01:25:04.58
Mike
Right.

01:25:07.01
Mike
Right.

01:25:07.74
Bill
Um, but, uh, I don't know. was just, it, it kind of blew my mind because as, again, as they're saying it, they're like rural and so cell phone service.

01:25:16.53
Mike
ah her

01:25:16.55
Bill
I'm like, have you been on a hiking trail? I'm like, that's where, that's where all this fucking shit is.

01:25:18.95
Mike
Right. Exactly.

01:25:20.65
Bill
But you know, Oh,

01:25:21.87
Mike
Well, I mean, my head goes to you know, some kind of nut. I'm going to go to Devil's Den and kill somebody that's in the den of the devil.

01:25:28.39
Bill
wow. Wow.

01:25:31.90
Mike
Because, you know, because somebody told me to.

01:25:34.45
Bill
wow

01:25:34.95
Mike
My brain, the voices in my head said I need to go take those people out of the den.

01:25:41.57
Bill
You know what? I mean, that, that, right.

01:25:42.55
Mike
yeah You fucking knows. I mean, that's just right. I mean, it could be nothing like that. It could be, like you said, could be some personal shit. You know, the, the guy pissed him off someplace and whatever, you know, but probably not.

01:25:55.99
Mike
I mean, you know, my head goes to dead. Yeah. You know, all fucked up in his head and that's where I'm going to go and save their souls, take them out of the den, you know?

01:26:06.66
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, I, I, I, the only reason I laughed is because I never thought about that. And, and it's not out of the, it's not even, I was going to say not even out of the realm of reality.

01:26:12.04
Mike
Hmm. Right.

01:26:17.51
Bill
It's, it's probably pretty much spot on with the way people think, you know, in, in probably what more than likely what happened is that, you know, ah the fact that the guy's license plates were taped up with, he knew he was up to no good you

01:26:27.79
Mike
Sure. Yeah, he was planning on something.

01:26:31.18
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, it doesn't sound like it, whether he did it on the way in or out. It it sounds like his license plates were taped up. OK, so there was a plan.

01:26:37.18
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:38.65
Bill
That's number one.

01:26:39.13
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:26:39.71
Bill
Now, was there a plan for them? um You know, is it just I'm going to walk like you said, you know, I'm just going to walk in.

01:26:42.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:44.84
Bill
I heard voices and I'm going to kill the first people I see because, you know, and they just happen to be the unlucky ones, you know.

01:26:46.16
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:26:51.24
Mike
Yeah. Which is probably more likely.

01:26:54.67
Bill
Yeah, I mean, but but I wouldn't be surprised at the dude. Like you said, that makes that makes so much sense.

01:27:00.74
Mike
yeah

01:27:02.56
Bill
As fucking wild as that may sound, that that makes more sense than just some dude walking through and be like, hey, you know what?

01:27:05.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:08.58
Bill
woke up today and I i feel like killing somebody.

01:27:09.70
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:27:12.10
Bill
so No voices. It's just like, I don't know, I got nothing to do on a Saturday.

01:27:15.85
Mike
Sure.

01:27:16.63
Bill
Got head out to some random park. I don't care what the name. it could be called It could be called God's, you know, God's whatever.

01:27:21.84
Mike
Yeah. Right. Paradise Valley.

01:27:25.40
Bill
Yes, God's Valley. God's Paradise Valley.

01:27:27.75
Mike
so

01:27:28.86
Bill
Exactly. was just going to go there and fucking knife somebody. But yeah, to to do it yeah again, have a knife, all the stuff.

01:27:31.85
Mike
Yep.

01:27:33.75
Bill
It wasn't like it was a rock or whatever.

01:27:34.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:35.35
Bill
So um I don't know.

01:27:35.60
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:37.03
Bill
I mean, but if you look it up, just look up. I mean, if you look up Arkansas hiking, where are you going to see it?

01:27:41.94
Mike
Sure.

01:27:42.42
Bill
But when you when you see the dude, and anyone look up and take a look at this dude, he's he looks fucking wild.

01:27:45.39
Mike
Nice. Yeah.

01:27:47.35
Bill
I mean, he's not he doesn't look um like um disheveled, but his face and a look in his eyes, he yeah this dude's a fucking mess.

01:27:48.09
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:51.65
Mike
see yeah

01:27:55.49
Bill
I mean, you're like, oof.

01:27:55.99
Mike
see

01:27:59.32
Bill
Yeah, he's got some issues. But, yeah, I just, I'm like, once again, i don't know. You know, if these things are going to happen, I mean, really, the kids? I mean, thank God they didn't do anything with the kids.

01:28:08.29
Mike
yeah

01:28:09.93
Bill
I mean, that's bad enough with the people. But, you know,

01:28:12.29
Mike
Well, the good news is they'll turn into Batman. Well, they're a girl, so Batgirl. ah

01:28:17.54
Bill
ah yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah

01:28:18.84
Mike
Parents killed in front of them, right? Yeah, they're going to turn into superheroes.

01:28:20.98
Bill
yeah I just, I can't imagine that just fucking, yeah I mean, those, those, are that's trauma. That is, that's what we would, we would define as, is trauma, but, uh,

01:28:28.31
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, there's some real trauma.

01:28:35.87
Bill
My dad didn't buy me a big wheel. Did I ever tell you about what my dad did to my big wheel?

01:28:38.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:28:40.45
Mike
I don't think so.

01:28:41.22
Bill
I just, ah okay. So this is, well, and everyone, everyone's got to remember my, my dad was a, um he was one of us. He was a fucking alcoholic.

01:28:48.55
Mike
Yes. Yep.

01:28:49.85
Bill
And this was um before, before they got divorced, he was still living with us. And this so has had to have been, we lived in Parma. So I was somewhere between the age of, mean, the fact that I remember this, like it was yesterday,

01:29:02.35
Bill
What's bike riding age? Six, five, six when you get on a two wheel.

01:29:05.03
Mike
Yeah, sure. Big.

01:29:06.23
Bill
OK.

01:29:06.34
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:29:07.39
Bill
Like a two wheel, like regular bike versus a big wheel.

01:29:09.91
Mike
Right.

01:29:10.18
Bill
um So let's let's say I was six. Let's let's throw six on there. That seems like a good age.

01:29:14.00
Mike
Uh huh.

01:29:15.12
Bill
And, you know, at that time, you know, our parents got divorced when I was eight. I think he was raging at this point. He was always fucking drinking.

01:29:22.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:29:23.47
Bill
So, um, he, I don't know if they, they bought me the bike, um, training wheels on it the whole bit.

01:29:23.50
Mike
Mm

01:29:29.33
Bill
And then, um, he was getting mad because, uh, well, as it turned out, he was, he was mad because I kept riding my big wheel.

01:29:29.39
Mike
hmm.

01:29:35.37
Bill
Everyone did.

01:29:35.41
Mike
Right.

01:29:36.03
Bill
Everyone was in the neighborhood, you know, it's big wheel and spinning around and having fun.

01:29:39.14
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:29:39.17
Bill
And that's what we did. You know, it was fucking great. So, um, the one time he's like, cause I got, of course I got called Billy, you know, when I was younger, know, Billy, come on in here.

01:29:47.11
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:29:48.25
Bill
And he's in the garage, probably with a can of beer. I think about it.

01:29:51.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:53.02
Bill
Um, and probably fucking loaded at the time he did this, but he said, uh, he goes, yeah, come in here.

01:29:55.77
Mike
Sure.

01:29:57.45
Bill
And he said, bring your big wheel. So, you know, ride my big wheel and into the garage and he's like, know, hop off of it. He grabbed his tools and in front of me um took apart my big wheel, completely took apart and put it up in the end of the Raptors and maybe, so maybe sit there and watch them the entire time, but put it up in the Raptors then said, go ride your bike.

01:30:07.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:20.66
Bill
yeah That was the, that was the end of my big wheel. So, yeah.

01:30:22.84
Mike
yeah that's some alcoholic thinking there yeah absolutely i spent this money on this goddamn bike and you're riding your big wheel i'm gonna put an end to that

01:30:30.02
Bill
but

01:30:35.47
Bill
Yeah. And like I say, it wasn't like he waited. I went to bed to do it. He did. He called me in the garage and and maybe watch him.

01:30:39.89
Mike
sure uh-huh

01:30:41.34
Bill
take you know

01:30:45.72
Bill
I laugh at it now. I don't remember it like really crushing me, but I'm sure it did.

01:30:49.36
Mike
Sure.

01:30:49.49
Bill
um

01:30:50.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:50.50
Bill
But maybe that's why I drank. Right. Did I pull that back?

01:30:52.79
Mike
Yeah. There you go.

01:30:55.00
Bill
I i said that was it.

01:30:55.61
Mike
That's it.

01:30:56.92
Bill
The therapist here, she's going to bring it back to my fucking big wheel. Yeah.

01:31:00.40
Mike
Yep.

01:31:02.06
Bill
No, everyone else out there. I, you know what? It it is what it day is. I dealt with it. My dad was a fucking raging alcoholic. It, you know, when he got sober and stuff like that, for the most part, 80% of the time he was a decent guy that I loved to death.

01:31:07.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:31:13.25
Mike
Sure.

01:31:13.53
Bill
So, um, you know, he made up for it. It was all, it was good.

01:31:16.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:31:16.44
Bill
I was okay.

01:31:19.45
Bill
All right. So on, uh, I guess on that, that, what the fuck, man, I, I, are we done? You done? You got anything else?

01:31:24.20
Mike
i Nah, I'm done, man.

01:31:26.67
Bill
yeah

01:31:27.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:28.89
Bill
All right. Yeah, it's getting late anyhow. So, all right, Mike, your turn.

01:31:30.87
Mike
It is. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. As always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:31:46.29
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:31:59.79
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:32:10.32
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. Keep fucking off forever.

01:32:16.64
Bill
Yes. And I almost failed to say, because this weekend is you guys are going away for your anniversary, right?

01:32:22.26
Mike
We are.

01:32:23.29
Bill
Well, happy anniversary to you, you crazy kids and have a have a wonderful have a wonderful weekend.

01:32:25.82
Mike
Well, thank you.

01:32:27.85
Bill
and And I know I fuck around with it, but it's I know it's going to be nine years.

01:32:28.66
Mike
We will.

01:32:31.30
Bill
So it's ah it's ah it's a thing and it's ah it's a thing of beauty because, you know, I mean, you're you're okay, but i yeah of course i I adore Chris and I'm glad she's around.

01:32:35.62
Mike
see Yeah, right. Yes. Me too.

01:32:43.22
Bill
But yeah, the next week, you know we're we're doing a wacky Wednesday recording.

01:32:47.31
Mike
We are.

01:32:48.53
Bill
Yeah, because then we'll be out in Ohio soon.

01:32:49.07
Mike
who Whip them out Wednesday.

01:32:51.24
Bill
Oh, I like that. Let me write that. Don't forget that. Whip it. Whip it out Wednesday.

01:32:54.01
Mike
Jesus. Jesus Christ, man.

01:32:55.19
Bill
Whip it.

01:32:55.87
Mike
Opie and Anthony. Wow stickers were everywhere.

01:32:57.89
Bill
Really?

01:32:59.02
Mike
Yeah, man. That was their big day. Wow stickers. Whip them out Wednesday.

01:33:03.99
Bill
Yeah, I i never listened to them. I don't know that necessarily a ah fan of them. ah But no, I didn't know that. I had no idea.

01:33:11.58
Mike
yeah All right. Yep. Yep. That's a long time ago.

01:33:15.35
Bill
No, I mean, I know who they are. i just had to... I never listened to them, so I guess I never would have known that. so god i thought you'd Again, i thought you came up with something fucking original. You could have just let let it be.

01:33:24.56
Mike
No, please. Nope.

01:33:26.25
Bill
<unk>ll Just let it be. Can't just let things fucking lie, can you?

01:33:29.70
Mike
I can't take credit for something that's not mine.

01:33:33.00
Bill
Damn it!

01:33:33.16
Mike
i got I got enough problems taking credit for things that actually are mine.

01:33:38.11
Bill
I know, I know.

01:33:39.49
Mike
Okay.

01:33:39.49
Bill
All right, man. And you know what? That's why I love you, brother.

01:33:41.71
Mike
And I love you too.

01:33:43.67
Bill
We'll talk soon.

01:33:44.57
Mike
We shall.

01:33:45.84
Bill
Bye. bye

01:33:46.85
Mike
Bye.