SoberNotMature - Episode 174 (Fr. Bill W. - Two Way Prayer & Three Way FOs)

 

00:00:01.54
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And um we have somebody out of the ordinary in our audience tonight, actually in our studio.

00:00:10.04
Mike
Yes.

00:00:14.64
Bill
And we only say that, Bill, because I don't know. It's not that we've had friends.

00:00:19.08
Mike
since

00:00:19.14
Bill
We've seen people leave before, but do we have any friends that are priests, Mike? I mean, do we?

00:00:23.17
Mike
Uh, no.

00:00:25.04
Bill
And it's not because we anything against priests. It's just maybe priests don't like us.

00:00:27.55
Mike
No.

00:00:29.08
Bill
I don't know. I don't know.

00:00:29.72
Mike
Yeah,

00:00:29.97
FR. Bill W.
it is

00:00:30.04
Bill
But

00:00:30.90
FR. Bill W.
It is a risk coming on here, I know that.

00:00:33.65
Mike
yeah it is. Mmm.

00:00:35.69
Bill
well Well, you know what? Here's the thing. You got a couple of things going for you. Number one, um you know it might be a risk. That's a good thing. But number two is your name is Bill W.

00:00:42.13
Mike
Wow.

00:00:44.53
Bill
But I'm going to let you introduce yourself real quick and then we'll get into things.

00:00:45.00
FR. Bill W.
There you go.

00:00:47.69
Bill
So go ahead, Bill.

00:00:49.19
FR. Bill W.
ah So my what what do you when you want my story? or You don't want that.

00:00:52.68
Bill
Just do quick intro for the moment.

00:00:54.86
FR. Bill W.
Okay, well, I'm an Episcopal priest, ah um sober since December the 27th of 1972, and ah worked in the treatment field most of my life, retired from that, and found a life after that.

00:01:02.63
Mike
wow

00:01:10.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:01:10.93
FR. Bill W.
and That was about, I don't know, 12 years ago. I started podcasting and ah discovered this thing called Two-Way Prayer, and I'm sure we're going to get into that. But that, you know, I got into the history of AA and where it came from, and I was about 20 years sober at the time when when that happened.

00:01:21.22
Bill
Yep. Right.

00:01:31.30
FR. Bill W.
And yeah I learned things about the program that I never knew. like I said, I was 20 years sober then, and Totally changed my understanding of the program and I was getting pretty bored with AA at that time, you know, just flat i mean, I was I'd signed on for life, you know, so I was all right with that But it was like is this all there is and when i discovered the history it really Changed changed my life Yeah

00:01:46.14
Mike
Hmm.

00:01:46.24
Bill
right

00:01:51.00
Mike
Sure.

00:01:56.51
Mike
hmm.

00:02:01.96
Mike
Cool.

00:02:03.10
Bill
Yeah, and that that is cool. And he I'm sure, you well, maybe you did a little bit of research. I mean, we're AA people. That's our background.

00:02:08.89
FR. Bill W.
Right

00:02:09.21
Bill
um We're not a, we always say this, we're not an AA sanctioned podcast or anything like that. We talk about AA a lot because that's our story.

00:02:16.01
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:02:15.97
Bill
We've had a lot of people, you know, come on that are that are non-AA. But yeah, when we get other people on here, right, Mike, that kind of speak our language, it's, ah I don't know, it's a little bit of, we could just kind of kick back.

00:02:26.50
Bill
it's like, okay, it's just, ah you're sitting at a group of people, of like-minded people, I guess is the easiest way to put it.

00:02:26.75
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:02:26.94
Mike
Yes.

00:02:31.26
Mike
Absolutely. Yeah, we ah we understand each other.

00:02:32.68
Bill
plus ah but Plus, you got sober when I was four and Mike was six.

00:02:34.40
Mike
It's a beautiful thing.

00:02:35.62
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:02:38.85
Mike
Right. Right.

00:02:39.71
Bill
So, you know, that that in itself, in and we're old now, gosh darn it.

00:02:40.14
Mike
Right.

00:02:44.25
Mike
right

00:02:44.21
Bill
But I mean, you know, I mean, Jesus, I mean, that's ah that's something to talk about. But yes, um we we do want to hear your story. We obviously want to talk about your book. I don't even think the book's out yet, but you can fill us all in on that.

00:02:53.95
FR. Bill W.
Yes.

00:02:54.46
Bill
um But Mike, I mean, I think Bill probably knows how to tell his story, but tell him how we like to do it.

00:03:00.44
Mike
Right. Well, let's see. um Now you've put me in position because we all know how I usually do this. How do I do this with a priest?

00:03:07.35
Bill
I know. think could do it Yeah, so don't our lives, we know how to do up our lives the 80,000, how our phones up,

00:03:11.34
Mike
um I can. i can. Okay. So basically, Bill, we know how to screw up our lives and we know how to screw up the lives of everyone around us and we know how to screw ourselves up.

00:03:18.24
FR. Bill W.
yes

00:03:21.79
FR. Bill W.
right

00:03:21.86
Mike
But what we're interested in is the solution. So, you know, a little qualifying, all that good stuff.

00:03:25.01
FR. Bill W.
Okay, good. Me too.

00:03:27.54
Mike
Absolutely. You know, but yeah, basically we hate drunk logs, you know, a little, little qualification.

00:03:28.81
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:03:31.94
FR. Bill W.
Right. Me too.

00:03:34.75
Mike
That's all cool. But yes, tell us, tell us what happened, what it was like and what it's like now.

00:03:40.72
FR. Bill W.
Okay. ah Come from a bunch of drunks in New York City, Irish Catholic background.

00:03:44.47
Mike
ah

00:03:46.72
FR. Bill W.
ah I didn't have a chance, but I thought I was going to be smarter than the rest of the idiots in my family, you know?

00:03:55.75
Mike
Yes, I do.

00:03:55.97
FR. Bill W.
ah paper So I started drinking at 12 and, you know, um I was pretty much an alcoholic right from the beginning, you know, ah got drunk the first time.

00:04:08.61
FR. Bill W.
And by, it was, you know, in New York, it it was 18.

00:04:08.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:14.36
FR. Bill W.
i guess it still is. i don't know. ah To go into the bars. i was going in about 15, 16, had phony proof sitting at the bar.

00:04:19.61
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:19.58
Bill
Right.

00:04:21.69
FR. Bill W.
You know, and it took me to places that to I wanted to go to.

00:04:26.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:26.28
FR. Bill W.
I mean, I was screwed up before I ever took a drink. You know, I know that. um

00:04:31.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:32.20
FR. Bill W.
ah It's too late to hide it, you know. So ah the the alcohol, it it just, it I loved it.

00:04:35.20
Mike
Right.

00:04:40.00
FR. Bill W.
I just loved it. the The other thing about my story was that I was really big on the geographical cure. So, and I had to do things that looked good.

00:04:48.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:52.42
FR. Bill W.
You know, that was just part of the deal. I was the family hero, if you know the the roles that people play in the alcoholic family.

00:04:58.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:58.74
Bill
Sure.

00:05:00.21
FR. Bill W.
was supposed to be the hero, you know. And so I had to look good and had a drink, you know. That became more and more problematic as time went on.

00:05:11.48
FR. Bill W.
So I taught high school in New York, had a young girl, very insecure, you know. So ah Ask the kids, please evaluate me as a teacher. Get some lovely remarks.

00:05:25.91
FR. Bill W.
Share those with the other teachers. One girl writes, dear Mr. W, to keep my anonymity, dear Mr.

00:05:31.44
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:05:32.02
FR. Bill W.
W, I think you're a very good teacher. I wish you didn't drink so much.

00:05:36.60
Mike
Hmm.

00:05:38.20
FR. Bill W.
Whoa, that was kind of my first, well, wasn't my first diagnosis. My first diagnosis came from a buddy that I used to drink with.

00:05:43.42
Mike
Ah.

00:05:46.42
FR. Bill W.
And, uh, I was about 16. He pulls me aside one that night and he says, ah hey Bill, there are people who shouldn't drink.

00:05:51.23
Mike
Hmm.

00:05:54.85
FR. Bill W.
And then there are people who shouldn't even think about drinking.

00:05:57.57
Mike
Right.

00:05:57.55
Bill
yeah

00:05:58.23
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:05:58.35
FR. Bill W.
And then there's you.

00:05:59.91
Mike
right

00:06:00.71
FR. Bill W.
yeah And I said, son of a gun, he's jealous, you know, because I could put it away.

00:06:04.65
Mike
a

00:06:07.26
FR. Bill W.
So high school teaching, worked with orphan kids in the Bronx, was in Israel in the Peace Corps, Studied in Rome for a year.

00:06:18.33
FR. Bill W.
What else did I do? Catholic worker movement in Milwaukee back in the Vietnam days. You know, kind of. And then I entered the Jesuits. i i I was going to become a Jesuit priest.

00:06:31.19
FR. Bill W.
And I was looking for a place where I could drink and look good. And it seemed like a good place. And not do life. Let me add that.

00:06:39.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:40.13
FR. Bill W.
Not do life.

00:06:43.23
Bill
Bye.

00:06:44.08
FR. Bill W.
That was really important. It was unconscious, but it was it was important.

00:06:45.76
Mike
Sure. Sure.

00:06:49.73
FR. Bill W.
And when I was in there, wasn't very long. All the other young guys, I was the oldest, a they were doing holy things. And, you know, I was never very interested in holy things.

00:07:04.29
FR. Bill W.
That's why I'm on the show tonight. you know it's a

00:07:09.06
FR. Bill W.
po

00:07:09.66
Bill
yeah

00:07:10.50
FR. Bill W.
ah but But I went and volunteered at an alcohol and drug treatment center in downtown Detroit. was run by a crazy, certifiably crazy Catholic priest. And and I hey, you know, I'm here to help.

00:07:27.67
FR. Bill W.
you know Oh, that's nice.

00:07:28.60
Mike
Right.

00:07:30.31
FR. Bill W.
That's nice. You know, ah but we would like you to go through treatment as part of this process.

00:07:36.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:37.89
FR. Bill W.
The treatment was 17 weeks long. They did a thing called therapy, you know, and first time in therapy. I should have been years ago. I mean, I really should have been.

00:07:48.99
FR. Bill W.
But so I ah did the 17 weeks and they're talking feelings, you know. i didn't do feelings, you I did scotch.

00:07:56.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:59.16
FR. Bill W.
and And at the end of the 17, they said, would you do it again?

00:08:06.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:07.54
FR. Bill W.
I guess I thought I missed a few things.

00:08:08.04
Bill
Bye.

00:08:09.30
FR. Bill W.
Long story short, I did it again.

00:08:09.49
Mike
ahha

00:08:12.41
FR. Bill W.
um and and then I start, you know, oh, there's my uncle. I'm attending these lectures and stuff. And I can see my uncles and my father and my two grandfathers.

00:08:25.03
FR. Bill W.
And ah they're alcoholics, you know, and they're saying, and what about you?

00:08:27.87
Mike
see

00:08:30.63
FR. Bill W.
and I'm saying, no, no. They finally got to me, you know, I broke.

00:08:36.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:37.21
FR. Bill W.
And i started going to meetings. I went for about three months. And then i went out to California. ah This psychology thing was really fascinating to me, you know.

00:08:48.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:48.78
FR. Bill W.
It was this inner world. And I went to work with Carl Rogers, pretty famous psychologist. And I was a good good manipulator. So I said told the Jesuits, I want to go to this thing. I think it would really help me.

00:09:00.11
FR. Bill W.
And they said, well, it's pretty expensive. I said, well, I'll make it a pilgrimage. So I will i will i will hitchhike.

00:09:04.91
Mike
Mm.

00:09:07.55
FR. Bill W.
from Detroit out to San Diego. And yeah um I got drunk in, I think it was New Mexico.

00:09:18.82
FR. Bill W.
Guy picks me up.

00:09:19.70
Mike
You made it that far? Mm-hmm.

00:09:20.83
FR. Bill W.
I did.

00:09:20.95
Bill
Yeah, was going to say, that's ah that's far that's farther.

00:09:22.13
FR. Bill W.
i did, but I...

00:09:23.58
Bill
i thought you were going to say like Cleveland or something.

00:09:25.53
FR. Bill W.
No, no, i um i'm I'm an achiever.

00:09:32.16
FR. Bill W.
but But I made it, you know, in pretty fast time there too. to Albuquerque. And a ah guy picked me up and he and he had a six pack in the in car.

00:09:44.21
FR. Bill W.
And he said, do you want a beer? And I said, sure. And it was that quick, you know, it was just that quick. So I drank and then I had to go underground i when ah when I went back to Detroit, you know, so, cause I told everybody I'm an alcoholic, you know, God, keep the anonymity going, boy.

00:10:05.16
FR. Bill W.
That was a mistake.

00:10:06.46
Mike
Absolutely.

00:10:07.63
FR. Bill W.
So what am I going to do um um I go down after that. I'm in for about another year hiding out. And I go down to Case Western Reserve University. I'm supposed to be helping the Catholic chaplain.

00:10:21.28
FR. Bill W.
And I am dragging gallons of wine back to my room. And I'm getting drunk and I'm hanging around with people I shouldn't be hanging around with, you know. getting ready to take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.

00:10:34.24
FR. Bill W.
I figured that there was an outside chance at poverty, you know?

00:10:37.98
Mike
Right.

00:10:38.71
FR. Bill W.
yeah The other two, fit yeah, that was easy.

00:10:39.57
Mike
Yeah, that one's easy. Mm-hmm.

00:10:41.55
FR. Bill W.
that was yeah I was pretty good at that. The other two were not going to work. That just wasn't wasn't for me. So I went back. Let's see, what happened then? Oh, yeah, yes, yes, yes.

00:10:53.21
FR. Bill W.
That's where I hit my bottom, Cleveland, Cleveland. I always tell people, this back in the 70s, the river was on fire. i mean, it was a terrible, terrible town back then. it I don't know now, but it is not.

00:11:05.58
Mike
That's not too bad. i'm sitting I'm sitting in Cleveland right now.

00:11:08.78
FR. Bill W.
Are you in Cleveland? Oh, my God.

00:11:10.06
Bill
yeah yeah Yeah, it actually, it's it is a it is a nice town now.

00:11:10.29
FR. Bill W.
Well, um my next pilgrimage will be to you, Mike.

00:11:10.30
Mike
am.

00:11:13.67
Mike
All right. Hmm.

00:11:16.20
FR. Bill W.
I've never seen Cleveland sober, so it's about time.

00:11:21.05
Mike
Yeah.

00:11:22.02
FR. Bill W.
Here's what happened. Here's what happened.

00:11:24.69
Bill
I mean, it's been cleaned up in the stadiums and the whole downtown area.

00:11:25.51
FR. Bill W.
Good.

00:11:27.53
Bill
And then, yeah, Mike's been in Cleveland for years, but that's where both of us both of us got sober out there.

00:11:28.38
FR. Bill W.
Nice. Oh, wow.

00:11:32.96
Bill
um

00:11:33.08
FR. Bill W.
Some good AA there.

00:11:34.29
Bill
Oh, yeah, really rock solid AA, no doubt.

00:11:34.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:36.77
FR. Bill W.
Some good AA. Some good AA in Detroit, too. that That Midwestern stuff, you know?

00:11:42.07
Mike
Absolutely.

00:11:42.25
Bill
Right.

00:11:42.60
FR. Bill W.
it's ah It's kind of kind of different. Anyway,

00:11:47.29
Mike
So you bottomed out in Cleveland.

00:11:48.84
FR. Bill W.
I bottomed out, and and here's what happened.

00:11:48.93
Bill
Right.

00:11:54.07
FR. Bill W.
I heard a voice. ah I know where I was standing. i know I know exactly what was happening at the time. and And what I was going to do, i mean, the Jesuit thing was, it was not going to last, you know?

00:12:07.50
FR. Bill W.
So I had to run again. I was a runner, you know? And so I was going to either run to Australia and just stay drunk for the rest of my life.

00:12:14.43
Bill
Yeah.

00:12:17.20
FR. Bill W.
You know, that was plan A. Plan B was I'm going to go to India and get holy like nobody's gotten holy, join an ashram.

00:12:27.94
FR. Bill W.
You know, that was of the two sides of my personality.

00:12:30.32
Mike
Right?

00:12:30.89
FR. Bill W.
and i was skitzo i was skitzy You know, you know? and and And I heard a voice when those two ideas were going in my head. The voice said to me, Bill, you are 27.

00:12:43.24
FR. Bill W.
If those are your choices, there is something wrong with you. Now, you know the line in the big book, Spiritual axiom, anytime we're disturbed, there's something wrong.

00:12:54.96
FR. Bill W.
With the people around me was the way I read that line.

00:12:55.18
Bill
Right.

00:12:58.41
Mike
Sure, right.

00:12:58.94
FR. Bill W.
So I changed the people around me, you know.

00:13:02.39
Mike
Right.

00:13:03.33
FR. Bill W.
But this way, if I went to Australia, I was screwed. And if I went to India, I was screwed. The problem was me.

00:13:10.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:10.73
FR. Bill W.
The problem was me, and I'd never faced that.

00:13:13.73
Mike
Right.

00:13:14.45
FR. Bill W.
What I did was I went back to a therapist who had tried to work with me when I was in treatment there in Detroit. And he said to me, you know, we've been waiting for you. You know, are you willing to go to any length to get sober? He said, you're not at a physical bottom, but you are at an emotional bottom and you're at a spiritual bottom.

00:13:39.54
Bill
Right.

00:13:40.11
FR. Bill W.
He said, you can probably drink for 10 more years, but you're not going to make it. You're not going to live 10 more years. And I knew the guy was right.

00:13:47.73
Mike
right.

00:13:48.07
FR. Bill W.
I mean, I didn't know it then. But, you know I've learned a few things about psychology and stuff since. And what happened with my bottom was my ego collapsed.

00:14:02.27
FR. Bill W.
The ego system that I had put together very carefully, hiding behind it, it collapsed.

00:14:02.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:09.53
FR. Bill W.
And I didn't know who the hell I was.

00:14:11.70
Bill
Right.

00:14:12.05
Mike
Mm.

00:14:12.32
FR. Bill W.
And alcohol was the thing that was holding me together.

00:14:15.00
Mike
Right.

00:14:15.61
FR. Bill W.
And it was my only friend in this world.

00:14:18.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:18.51
FR. Bill W.
And they were going to take that away from me? I was terrified.

00:14:21.22
Mike
Right.

00:14:21.36
FR. Bill W.
I was literally terrified. And he said, you you know, you won't go any way to get sober? I said, yes. He said, I want you to go and I want you to live on Skid Row for one year.

00:14:31.86
Mike
Mm.

00:14:33.07
FR. Bill W.
I want you check into the Salvation Army. And I want you to look every alcoholic and addict that you meet in the eye and you say in your heart, there but for the grace of God goes I. He said, if you can do that, if we can raise your bottom, all right, you'll have a few brain cells left, you know?

00:14:43.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:50.35
FR. Bill W.
and you may make this program. Other than that, you don't have a chance in hell.

00:14:56.66
Mike
Hmm.

00:14:56.71
FR. Bill W.
And I think he was right.

00:14:58.10
Bill
Yeah.

00:14:58.34
Mike
Well.

00:14:59.58
FR. Bill W.
So the Jesuits, ah you know, they gave me a leave of absence. Go find yourself, son. yeah

00:15:06.04
Mike
Right.

00:15:07.38
FR. Bill W.
we We tried, you know. They loved me, but they couldn't help me.

00:15:12.02
Mike
right

00:15:12.89
FR. Bill W.
So ah I went to the Sally. I checked in. it was Harbor Lights and Cass Avenue down there in Detroit.

00:15:20.79
Mike
hmm

00:15:20.99
FR. Bill W.
It was tough. It was tough. And I worked spot labor jobs and i went to AA meetings every day, three times a day on the weekends. And six months there, then six months at ah an AA halfway house.

00:15:36.41
FR. Bill W.
And then if at a year, that treatment center hired me and put me through a counselor training program that was really, really excellent work. And worked in the field ever since then.

00:15:49.14
FR. Bill W.
Loved working with alcoholics, helping them get sober. Serious on the, whatchamacallit, on the spiritual program and the AA program.

00:16:01.19
FR. Bill W.
Had some good teachers all along the way. Then at 20 years, I hit another wall and i was bored. and And it was then...

00:16:12.34
FR. Bill W.
um that a series of three things happened to me. Um, am I getting too long on the drunk log thing on the, this is the sober log.

00:16:19.86
Bill
No, God, no.

00:16:20.16
Mike
No, absolutely. No, this is good.

00:16:21.43
FR. Bill W.
This a sober log.

00:16:21.60
Bill
No, this is a story.

00:16:22.41
Mike
This is a sober log.

00:16:22.49
FR. Bill W.
Okay. Okay. Okay.

00:16:24.64
Bill
This isn't a drunk-along.

00:16:26.04
FR. Bill W.
okay Good. Good.

00:16:26.63
Bill
This is bringing us along on ah on a path to your solution.

00:16:26.84
FR. Bill W.
Good.

00:16:30.01
FR. Bill W.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it is. Well, here's what happened. Three things happened to me. Uh, 20 years sober. I'm, I'm going to AA. Um, uh, I was running the treatment centers and stuff by that point. And, uh,

00:16:42.59
FR. Bill W.
I worked a pretty good program, I got to say, you know. ah

00:16:46.45
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:16:46.85
FR. Bill W.
Not great, you know, but but good. and And let's see. First thing, I'm out in West Texas. And I go to dinner with a guy. I meet a guy in AA. And I tell him, you know, his program's not working for me the way it did in the early days.

00:17:05.46
FR. Bill W.
He said, oh, well, do you know the story of the five M's? It's a story of spiritual institutions. I said, no, I don't. Well, this was the best story I ever heard. All right.

00:17:16.86
FR. Bill W.
He said, every spiritual institution kind of evolves. And it goes it goes through this process. It starts with the first M, which is a man.

00:17:29.53
FR. Bill W.
And that man could be Jesus. It could be Buddha. It could be Bill Wilson. The man has a spiritual experience, an encounter, with the divine.

00:17:40.32
FR. Bill W.
God touches him, he touches God. All right? Fourth dimension of existence. That's the man. Comes back with what? The second M, the message. The message is who we are.

00:17:53.50
FR. Bill W.
You know? Because who we are is not who we thought we were. know? yeah You're a child of God. For Buddha, it's sitting under under the banyan tree.

00:18:04.70
FR. Bill W.
You know? And he gets enlightenment. And he knows who he is. And Jesus, the story is, you know, in the Jordan and gets dunked and up he comes, baptized.

00:18:17.93
FR. Bill W.
And voice, this is my beloved, my son. Listen to him. All right. Bill Wilson, third time in detox.

00:18:24.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:27.99
FR. Bill W.
Or fourth time in detox. Fourth time in detox. And in a year and a half. And he has his spiritual awakening, his spiritual experience.

00:18:39.53
FR. Bill W.
Standing on a mountaintop. Feels the presence of God. All right? So he knew he was all right after that, eh? You know, it it was over.

00:18:51.37
FR. Bill W.
He knew he he could stay sober now because he had tasted what he was looking for. So the man, the message, you know, and then the the the third M is the movement.

00:19:03.45
FR. Bill W.
Because that's a very exciting time in the beginnings of a program like that.

00:19:08.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:08.72
FR. Bill W.
So you got the Buddha and his monks, you got Jesus and his disciples. You got Bill Wilson and the theoretical first 100. There actually weren't 100, but Bill liked to exaggerate a little bit, you know?

00:19:17.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:21.24
Bill
Yeah, just tad.

00:19:21.44
Mike
Little bit.

00:19:22.35
Bill
just the ta

00:19:22.49
FR. Bill W.
He could tell tales.

00:19:26.42
FR. Bill W.
100 sounded pretty good to him. So he put, it's a rice nice round number, that's right.

00:19:28.32
Mike
Right. Nice round number.

00:19:32.55
FR. Bill W.
So there's there's the movement. the the the movement

00:19:37.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:37.48
FR. Bill W.
Exciting time. Exciting time, all right? Early days of ah of a program, of ah a new a new a new endeavor of some sort.

00:19:47.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:48.39
FR. Bill W.
You know? Fourth M is when they organize the damn thing. Now we've got to bring in the secretaries and the lawyers, and we've got to get our 501c3, and we've got to, you know, do all of this stuff.

00:20:05.49
FR. Bill W.
to make sure you know it's it's right, it's safe, it's it's all that good good stuff. you know So they organize it with with the the church. you know It's who's in charge.

00:20:25.08
Mike
Right. The hierarchy.

00:20:26.32
FR. Bill W.
It's the the high right, it's the bishop.

00:20:27.06
Mike
Right.

00:20:29.29
FR. Bill W.
I get to wear a pointy hat?

00:20:31.62
Mike
Right.

00:20:31.94
FR. Bill W.
and I got a great big stick and if you cause any trouble, whomp, whap you over the head.

00:20:36.75
Mike
Mm-hmm. wilson

00:20:38.39
FR. Bill W.
you know a

00:20:39.36
Mike
right

00:20:39.89
Bill
yeah

00:20:40.45
FR. Bill W.
that's That's it, that's it. This is the way it is. Moses, same thing, here's the law, you know do it or else. you know um With AA we tried, you know but you've gotta organize.

00:20:56.78
FR. Bill W.
You've gotta have, this the fourth M is the machine. Because what the machine is going to try to do is grind out the message.

00:21:05.42
Mike
right

00:21:05.86
FR. Bill W.
Now, what happened to me with my AA I was going AA, but I just grinding out the message. You know, kind of tell a story that, you know, 200 years from now, we'll Cleveland will, we'll have the AA convention, world's convention in Cleveland.

00:21:24.20
FR. Bill W.
And somebody is going to hold up the sacred coffee pot that Dr.

00:21:27.80
Mike
Right.

00:21:28.47
FR. Bill W.
Bob and Bill drank from, you know,

00:21:30.61
Mike
Right.

00:21:31.37
FR. Bill W.
It's holy.

00:21:33.12
Mike
see

00:21:33.71
FR. Bill W.
if you can't get sober, come and rub this sucker, you know?

00:21:36.40
Mike
Right.

00:21:38.61
FR. Bill W.
And then we're going to hold out the ashes a from the first 100, you know?

00:21:44.28
Mike
right

00:21:45.10
FR. Bill W.
It's their cigarette ashes, you know? And we'll smear them on your forehead. And it's magic.

00:21:52.79
Mike
right

00:21:53.52
FR. Bill W.
It's magic. So we're holding on to our coins and we're doing all this sort of stuff. And and we're quoting the big book. And again, 200 years from now, it'll be chapter 5, verse 27, you know, in the in the big book, you know.

00:22:06.46
Mike
listen

00:22:06.86
FR. Bill W.
Amen, brother. Off we go. You know, we will have mechanized the program and lost sight of its ah ability to transform people, to change people at deep levels.

00:22:19.20
Mike
Interesting.

00:22:22.63
FR. Bill W.
It will lose it. It will lose its ability to do that.

00:22:24.87
Mike
Hmm. Hmm.

00:22:26.75
FR. Bill W.
You know? And then the fourth the fifth M is the mausoleum because it's dead.

00:22:32.92
Mike
Yep.

00:22:34.90
FR. Bill W.
So I ask people, you ever been in a dead church? Damn right I have.

00:22:39.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:39.75
FR. Bill W.
You ever been in a dead AA meeting?

00:22:42.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:42.53
FR. Bill W.
Absolutely.

00:22:43.04
Bill
Right.

00:22:44.65
FR. Bill W.
Well, that's that's what's going on in the spiritual institutions. You know? You can't suck it off of the group forever. You can in the beginning. And it's really helpful.

00:22:56.06
FR. Bill W.
but at some point along the line, you've got to go inside and you've got to do your work.

00:23:02.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:23:02.69
FR. Bill W.
If you want to be really happy, joyous, and free. Now, if you want to just be sober and full of crap, you can you can you can just ah keep doing the meetings, and that's about the extent of it, you know?

00:23:05.95
Bill
right

00:23:09.35
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:23:13.90
Mike
hu Now.

00:23:16.63
FR. Bill W.
You can stay sober on that.

00:23:18.44
Mike
Huh?

00:23:18.75
FR. Bill W.
Well, you can stay dry on that.

00:23:19.96
Mike
Try. Thank you.

00:23:20.65
Bill
Right.

00:23:20.77
FR. Bill W.
You can stay dry on that.

00:23:20.89
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:22.99
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:23:23.00
Bill
Well, and that's, that's one thing real quick to just kind of interject with that.

00:23:25.08
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:26.08
Bill
It made me think about, you know, the, and, and I know Mike, you and I heard this, you know, for the longest time, they said a lot of people, you know, hide out in the rooms to begin with, maybe even for the first, you know, six months, year, maybe of the first couple years, two, three years, because that's what they need to keep them sober.

00:23:35.19
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:23:42.28
Bill
But at some point, um and And Mike and I don't know if we're good examples. We are examples of that process where but we did meetings upon meetings and all this different stuff for years and years and both of us just passed 15.

00:23:50.89
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:23:54.53
Bill
um And not that we, our program hasn't changed, but the, but I think what maybe the use of meetings, right, Mike? Yeah.

00:24:02.20
Mike
absolutely.

00:24:03.13
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:24:03.23
Bill
You know, and and Mike has a home group that he goes to every week. I rarely go to meetings when I'm back in Cleveland. I i love going to meetings. I love the fellowship. I love all of it.

00:24:10.51
FR. Bill W.
Right, right.

00:24:11.11
Bill
um But we started doing this, this podcast three and a half years ago um because of that. When you said like it at 20, you felt, you know, what I can't remember the word you said, but kind of lost or stagnant or whatever it was.

00:24:23.65
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, yeah

00:24:24.44
Bill
We were coming out of the pandemic and a lot of the meetings went online and things kind of went weird with a club I was going to.

00:24:26.69
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:24:30.77
Bill
i had a void that I didn't know how to fill. And then just by, you know, just by weird circumstance, um the the the idea, ah you know, brood of a podcast between Mike and I.

00:24:33.89
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:24:41.66
Bill
And then we started this and we when we did it, literally our. yeah Our mindset was just, let's get together on a Friday night and have a meeting. We're go to record it. If people listen, fine. If they don't, to hell with them.

00:24:54.23
Bill
You know, I mean, and then, yeah.

00:24:55.24
FR. Bill W.
That's the spirit. All

00:24:56.41
Mike
Thank you.

00:24:56.48
Bill
and it And literally, that's that's what it was.

00:24:59.22
FR. Bill W.
right.

00:24:59.38
Bill
and And even to this day, we we we stayed small, not necessarily by choice. um But the one thing that we that we said, we've had a couple of people that have come on, wanted to come on as guests. And we tried to beg. And a couple of people, we had weird circumstances where they didn't come on.

00:25:15.44
FR. Bill W.
but

00:25:15.48
Bill
And, you know, i Mike and I were talking about this one person. He could have been like a big, bigger influence. I don't bring up his name, but we called him, we called him, well, I don't even say it.

00:25:26.38
Mike
yeah

00:25:27.17
Bill
okay

00:25:27.48
Mike
Bye.

00:25:28.09
Bill
we We made fun of him openly, not by his name, but we promoted the dude three different times and he kept canceling on us. And finally we said, you know what? No, thank you. um But the the idea at that point was we maybe we have a price where we would, I don't want to say sell out, but you know do something ah beyond what our main purpose was.

00:25:44.52
Bill
you know But that wasn't it. And um I don't know. It's just we can do what we want with this, but we try to keep it.

00:25:49.77
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:51.18
Bill
We talk about life and whatever it is, but we still, this is a this is a sober refuge for me. And I think for Mike too, you know, but this was very important for me to to begin with it, fill the void.

00:25:59.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:03.29
Bill
um And it, and it re-sparked this thing, you know, that whatever it was, and that was, you know, three and a half years ago. So what, 11, 11 and a half years, I think we started doing a bike, you know, somewhere in that area.

00:26:12.16
Mike
yeah

00:26:13.74
Bill
So, but anyhow, so hiding out in in the rooms, I know a lot of people do it, but to your point, Bill, um yeah, there, you've got to do something beyond just sitting it and taking up, taking up a seat, right?

00:26:19.12
FR. Bill W.
yeah

00:26:24.98
FR. Bill W.
Right. You've got to undergo and ah transformation.

00:26:28.58
Mike
sir

00:26:28.55
Bill
Right.

00:26:29.35
FR. Bill W.
A psychic change. I mean, let's take that big book seriously. I mean, it it it names it.

00:26:37.33
Mike
Right. Absolutely.

00:26:37.97
FR. Bill W.
you've you

00:26:38.12
Mike
Well, a good friend, actually, ah he hates the term, but grant sponsor for lack of a better term. um he Yeah. He says it all the time. Look, this is an inside job. You need to do the work.

00:26:47.45
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:26:48.36
Mike
You need to change the inside of you. Otherwise, what's the point?

00:26:52.79
FR. Bill W.
That's it.

00:26:53.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:53.52
Bill
Right.

00:26:53.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:54.48
FR. Bill W.
That's it. So let me go back to my story now just a little bit, because just to fill it in a little bit.

00:27:00.08
Bill
right

00:27:00.16
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:27:02.28
FR. Bill W.
So a couple of months after that, after that meeting that guy in West Texas and hearing about the 5Ms, I'm up in in Tennessee, and I go to a 5 o'clock meeting and go to a clubhouse and ah go in back room there where the meeting was going to be.

00:27:22.59
FR. Bill W.
And there's a woman in there, and she's playing cards. playing solitaire. And I say, is this five o'clock meeting? She going start in about 10 minutes, son. You sit down shut up, you know, kind of kind of like that.

00:27:32.04
Bill
yeah

00:27:33.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:34.88
FR. Bill W.
She's playing her cards, you know, three or four more people kind of stumble in. Five o'clock rolls around. I swear to God, this is true. She says, she keeps stealing the cards. says, hi, everybody. My name is Mary.

00:27:48.98
FR. Bill W.
was an alcoholic and welcomed the five o'clock meeting. Kept stealing the freaking cards. And I said, oh, shit. You know, there's not going to be a meeting.

00:27:57.77
Bill
yeah

00:28:00.34
FR. Bill W.
The machine is here.

00:28:02.71
Bill
Right.

00:28:03.23
FR. Bill W.
This is mechanical AA. Oh, my God. What has happened to us?

00:28:09.31
Mike
ah

00:28:12.51
FR. Bill W.
Third thing was about a month after that, I'm in Oklahoma City. And I kind of tell people at an conference,

00:28:25.05
FR. Bill W.
ah You know, I'm kind of a little lost. My program's kind of shaky and looking for something new. So you got to go see Earl. he he he Earl will fix you. All right.

00:28:36.72
FR. Bill W.
So I go over to Earl's house and Earl turns out he he was about 35 years sober at the time. And he was the archivist for the state of Oklahoma AA.

00:28:50.75
Mike
Hmm.

00:28:50.83
FR. Bill W.
And he was really interested in the Oxford College. where AA came from. He was he was you know

00:28:55.73
Mike
Right. Mm

00:28:59.46
FR. Bill W.
volunteer historian kind of thing. and And I go and I tell him who I am and he says, oh, that's wonderful. He locks the door, hopes nobody comes over. And we spent three hours together.

00:29:10.61
FR. Bill W.
And what he did was he took me through this what became 12 steps.

00:29:10.63
Bill
Nice.

00:29:18.11
FR. Bill W.
You know, we emerged out of the Oxford group. I've got a couple of quotes here. This is from Bill Wilson. Where did we learn about moral inventory, amends for harms done, turning our will and our lives over the care God?

00:29:32.38
FR. Bill W.
Where did we learn about prayer and meditation and all the rest? The spiritual substance of our remaining 10 steps, basically two through 11, came straight from Dr.

00:29:42.61
Mike
Right.

00:29:43.95
FR. Bill W.
Bob's and my own early association with the Oxford group. What I heard from Earl that night was the steps in in kind of their original language.

00:29:57.54
FR. Bill W.
It was fascinating. And it was so simple. You know, the Oxford group people didn't have steps. But it was the group thing where where Wilson and Dr.

00:30:04.81
Mike
right

00:30:08.70
FR. Bill W.
Bob, Dr. Bob was in the Oxford group two and a half years before Wilson even showed up.

00:30:13.26
Mike
Right.

00:30:13.84
Bill
Right.

00:30:13.91
FR. Bill W.
You know? So, I mean, this thing, it just runs through all of our programs, and yet we don't know much about it.

00:30:21.60
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:30:21.91
FR. Bill W.
You know? Earl got me down. said, you know, like the third step. We we came to the third step. He said, do you ever do the third step with someone?

00:30:33.95
FR. Bill W.
I said, third step? I do the third step every day. You know?

00:30:36.74
Mike
hmm.

00:30:37.82
FR. Bill W.
He said, no, no, you don't do it every day. You do it once. know? and you do it right, and you do it with another person. It was kind of like getting married, you know?

00:30:48.70
FR. Bill W.
You don't get married every day.

00:30:49.16
Mike
Wow.

00:30:50.88
FR. Bill W.
course, if you're Oklahoma, some of them do, but...

00:30:53.89
Bill
hey

00:30:55.71
FR. Bill W.
yeah i was in I was in treatment. One one guy, this is a funny story. We're going around the group, we had tough-ass counselor, and the fellow before me, he's doing his social history, and he says,

00:31:12.06
FR. Bill W.
I've been married nine times, therapist says.

00:31:14.31
Mike
well

00:31:15.18
FR. Bill W.
Nine times? Why don't you marry your mother and get it over with?

00:31:20.48
Bill
Oh,

00:31:23.97
Bill
yeah

00:31:24.37
FR. Bill W.
So I'm doing my third step every day, you know? No, Earl says, no.

00:31:28.27
Mike
Hmm.

00:31:30.17
FR. Bill W.
would you Would you do it with me on your knees? Oh, I don't know. I did. get down on my knees. I said, should I read the third step prayer? He said, I wish you wouldn't.

00:31:46.13
FR. Bill W.
That's machine. See, that's machine.

00:31:47.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:49.18
FR. Bill W.
Come from your heart. Give your life to God. oh So I've stumbled out with some words, but you know what? I felt something deep in my heart.

00:32:02.79
Mike
Hmm.

00:32:03.67
FR. Bill W.
a I don't pray with people. You know, I guess I have to now, you know.

00:32:08.79
Mike
Hmm.

00:32:08.82
FR. Bill W.
kind of an occupational hazard, but you know, I'm pretty much of a loner.

00:32:09.23
Mike
Hmm. ah

00:32:13.57
FR. Bill W.
you know Praying with people was not in in our style.

00:32:19.62
FR. Bill W.
But I prayed with him and it really changed me. And he he basically took me through the the whole run of the steps.

00:32:29.32
Mike
<unk>

00:32:29.45
FR. Bill W.
and And the big one that I came away with, he gave me a ah stack of books, three feet high, and I took them home. A very generous man. Took them home and I started reading this stuff. and And oh my God, this is where it all came from.

00:32:44.12
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:32:44.86
FR. Bill W.
and and And I don't know, it's it's like I heard the steps in a different language, you know, and they were simple.

00:32:54.29
Bill
Right.

00:33:00.07
FR. Bill W.
And totally changed me. The thing that changed me the most, I got to say, is when it came to step 11 and they I stumbled onto this thing that they called two-way prayer, part of a morning quiet time.

00:33:12.51
FR. Bill W.
And

00:33:16.12
FR. Bill W.
I'd never heard of that. Not really. i mean, i knew about, we came from the Oxford, but I know you some of the basic history stuff.

00:33:23.85
Bill
right

00:33:24.86
FR. Bill W.
but But that they were sitting down and listening for God's voice and writing the words that came to them and sharing that with other people, that was that was the fire that you know that that was going.

00:33:43.64
FR. Bill W.
Now, when Wilson gets to writing the the big book, he he does not want people to associate AA with the Oxford group.

00:33:53.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:54.36
FR. Bill W.
So he's going to suppress

00:33:54.66
Bill
Right.

00:33:56.42
FR. Bill W.
some of the things that would naturally connect it. This is my view anyway. and And I think the listening to God, the two-way prayer would in the minds of the general population, because the Oxford group was fairly well known and popular.

00:34:11.41
FR. Bill W.
AA it certainly was not, you know, but if they started mentioning that, they'd say, oh, this is just Oxford group.

00:34:12.92
Mike
Right.

00:34:18.73
FR. Bill W.
And then they'd dismiss it. So he didn't he didn't want it to be associated with that.

00:34:21.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:25.15
FR. Bill W.
But I started doing the two-way prayer. um I didn't tell my wife I was doing it, you know.

00:34:31.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:32.44
FR. Bill W.
She thought I was crazy enough, you know. But now he's in his office listening to God right now, you know.

00:34:34.44
Mike
Right.

00:34:38.56
Mike
Right.

00:34:38.87
FR. Bill W.
He can't take your call. So, ah and then I started teaching other people how to do it. A guy who had been a patient of mine years ago.

00:34:51.25
FR. Bill W.
He was a pretty famous eye surgeon from Houston. And I taught him how to do it. And for, i don't know, 10, 15 years, every Monday morning at seven, he would call me and he would share his two-way prayers from the week and I'd share mine.

00:35:09.49
FR. Bill W.
And it was a beautiful, beautiful thing. Got closer to that guy than any sponsor I'd ever had. You know, because he was he was he was hearing what was going on inside of me.

00:35:23.27
FR. Bill W.
and and And you just start to trust him. So that, you know, once I got out of the treatment field, I knew that this was something that I had to do. you know, due during the COVID, you guys were talking about that earlier.

00:35:38.61
FR. Bill W.
I started doing workshops on Zoom.

00:35:38.72
Bill
Right.

00:35:42.17
FR. Bill W.
We'd have 300 to 500 people coming.

00:35:46.54
FR. Bill W.
and and And I teach him how to do it. give him i have to give him enough his history. say yeah You got to steep this thing in history or people are going to think it's some new age thing out of California, you know.

00:35:58.52
Mike
Right.

00:35:59.05
FR. Bill W.
And it's not, you know.

00:36:00.69
Bill
yeah

00:36:00.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:01.95
FR. Bill W.
it's It's solid. And it's it's it's, did you guys grow up on the 24-hour book? The little black book?

00:36:08.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:09.05
Bill
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:09.45
Mike
don't Still read it every day.

00:36:09.70
Bill
Yep.

00:36:10.00
FR. Bill W.
Yes. You still read it.

00:36:11.17
Bill
Yep.

00:36:12.19
FR. Bill W.
The writings, the writings in that book, the the meditations, or the two-way prayer meditations of two women in England back in the 30s.

00:36:12.41
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:12.34
Bill
Yep.

00:36:16.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:21.50
Mike
Hmm.

00:36:24.06
FR. Bill W.
That's their meditations. I tell people, stop buying meditation books. Write your own.

00:36:30.09
Mike
hmm hmm

00:36:33.00
FR. Bill W.
You know, why you listening to theirs? It was very helpful for them, you know, but

00:36:37.27
Mike
hmm

00:36:38.45
FR. Bill W.
God has things that he needs to be saying to you. You know, and and where do they come from? I mean, I'm not a Bible thumper or any of that sort of stuff.

00:36:49.25
FR. Bill W.
I think they come from our unconscious mind. You know, I think that's where the big book says what? The great reality is within. Well, where? Is he in your spleen?

00:37:01.58
FR. Bill W.
Is he in your liver? He's in your mind. He's in your unconscious mind.

00:37:05.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:08.42
FR. Bill W.
And that's what you know Jung, studied a fair amount of Jung, you know when he sent Roland Hazard off in search of his spiritual experience.

00:37:19.67
FR. Bill W.
says, I can't help you. I tried everything psychiatry had to offer. You need a psychic change. You need, at the deepest levels of of your unconscious mind, to undergo a transformation, a radical, radical shift in orientation.

00:37:36.62
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:37:38.11
FR. Bill W.
mean, we say selfishness, self-centeredness, that we think is the root of our troubles.

00:37:42.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:42.44
FR. Bill W.
It ain't that we're just cheap. You know, it's that's not what it's talking about. it's It's that we are wrapped up in egotism, you know? And to to to the exclusion of the divine element that lives inside each and every one of us.

00:37:54.09
Bill
Thank you.

00:38:00.96
FR. Bill W.
And if you want to really get sober, and you really want to undergo a transformation, you've got to begin to dialogue with that that inner voice.

00:38:12.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:12.72
FR. Bill W.
Because it does want to speak to us. It was a Joan of Arc, you know, she was accused of hearing voices, you know, and...

00:38:20.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:22.76
FR. Bill W.
They said, well, we think they're just in your imagination.

00:38:26.01
Mike
Mm.

00:38:26.08
FR. Bill W.
We said, well, how else is he going to talk to me?

00:38:28.49
Mike
Right.

00:38:31.49
FR. Bill W.
How else is he going to talk to me? So the use of imagination in prayer is extremely, extremely important.

00:38:40.57
Mike
Mm.

00:38:41.17
FR. Bill W.
So I started doing it, you know, and I made a few changes in the way they did it. One of the things that I changed was, all right,

00:38:52.04
FR. Bill W.
I love 10, 11, and 12. They're the only steps I work these days. right

00:38:55.95
Mike
Mm. Mm.

00:38:56.30
FR. Bill W.
I don't work one through nine anymore. You can blame that one on Earl.

00:39:01.01
Mike
Mm.

00:39:01.29
FR. Bill W.
it's you know He said, if you work 10, 11, and 12, the things that you've learned in one through nine, you're going to keep doing those over and over again. You're going to go deeper and deeper into what the hell does it mean to have an unmanageable life?

00:39:19.32
FR. Bill W.
but doesn't mean it needs to do a, you know, a first step inventory every six months. I mean, that to me, that's mechanical. I don't just don't go there.

00:39:26.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:27.82
FR. Bill W.
I don't go there.

00:39:27.89
Bill
Right.

00:39:30.19
FR. Bill W.
But I don't manage. i read you know, I do podcasting too now.

00:39:35.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:37.42
FR. Bill W.
So I had a woman on the show who was in the Oxford group. Her parents were in the Oxford group. her grandparents were in the Oxford Group. a very, very lovely woman, older, probably 70s or 80s.

00:39:53.77
FR. Bill W.
And she was she was talking about the the Oxford Group program, and she boiled it down to three words. And when I heard the three words, I immediately heard the steps.

00:40:06.13
FR. Bill W.
She didn't know the steps. You know what i mean? wasn't her language. but But listen to this. Three words. I think Dr. Bob would like this. And he said, keep it simple. Three words. Can't get simpler than that.

00:40:17.17
Bill
ah

00:40:17.75
FR. Bill W.
First three steps, connection. We are people who are isolated, alone, cut off. We know loneliness like few people do.

00:40:29.66
FR. Bill W.
All right. So we need to do what? Connect. Well, that's what you do in particularly steps two and three.

00:40:36.42
Mike
but

00:40:36.44
FR. Bill W.
And you do it quickly. You know, and you do it with somebody. Can i read? ah Let me go through this. Now I'll go back and read read something because it's funny.

00:40:47.26
FR. Bill W.
be People need to egos need to be entertained. You know, that's important.

00:40:51.14
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:40:52.49
FR. Bill W.
That's all right.

00:40:52.71
Mike
Sure.

00:40:53.90
FR. Bill W.
sir So what happens? ah She said connection. Now the second set of steps, direct excuse me correction, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. four five six seven eight nine

00:41:04.70
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:41:06.58
FR. Bill W.
What are we doing there?

00:41:06.92
Mike
Mm

00:41:07.65
FR. Bill W.
We've connected in 1, 2, 3. Now we're going to make a correction.

00:41:09.99
Mike
hmm. Mm

00:41:11.70
FR. Bill W.
Where are we out of whack? Out of whack with God? Out of whack with other people?

00:41:19.71
Mike
hmm.

00:41:20.25
FR. Bill W.
Out of whack with ourselves, our true selves?

00:41:22.30
Mike
Right.

00:41:24.00
FR. Bill W.
We've got to clean up. Frank Bookman, who started the Oxford group, he said, I work with constipated Christians, right?

00:41:31.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:32.23
Bill
Bye.

00:41:32.44
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:32.82
FR. Bill W.
there They're stuck. They need to clean it out, you know?

00:41:36.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:36.84
FR. Bill W.
They need to clean it out.

00:41:40.19
FR. Bill W.
And that's what we do, isn't it? But but if you if you get mechanical, then, you know, you you can get lost in the steps.

00:41:42.67
Mike
yeah

00:41:50.07
FR. Bill W.
You can lose sight of what it is they're trying to accomplish.

00:41:54.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:55.12
FR. Bill W.
All right? who and I'm not disparaging them. I'm just saying be very careful.

00:42:00.02
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

00:42:00.48
FR. Bill W.
Be very careful with that. So that's the correction phase. 10, 11, and 12 are the direction phase. Now I'm going to live a God-guided life.

00:42:11.60
FR. Bill W.
Oxford group people believed if you have turned your will and your life over the care of God, cleaned up your act, right you're going to receive guidance.

00:42:21.96
Mike
yeah

00:42:22.76
Bill
Right.

00:42:23.29
FR. Bill W.
Now...

00:42:25.63
FR. Bill W.
That's more than the wisdom of the rooms.

00:42:28.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:31.32
FR. Bill W.
It's the divine wisdom that people have been searching for and some getting in touch with, you know, from time to time and and changed, dramatically changed by that.

00:42:39.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:46.46
FR. Bill W.
10, you watch. You watch. And this part of my morning quiet time every day. I watch myself.

00:42:53.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:54.93
FR. Bill W.
I watch myself. How did I do yesterday?

00:42:57.78
Mike
Right.

00:42:58.81
FR. Bill W.
How did how to do with my wife? How did I do with other people? How did i do? How did I conduct myself?

00:43:07.21
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:43:07.92
FR. Bill W.
Did I get angry? Did I get frustrated, fearful? What happened? Inside, what's going on inside? Watch, watch.

00:43:19.79
FR. Bill W.
Am I fearful inside? Is there anxiety? here

00:43:27.15
FR. Bill W.
What's his name? Tom Powers, he helped Wilson write the second edition big book, 12 and 12, A Comes of Age. He said something beautiful.

00:43:38.82
FR. Bill W.
He said, if you don't watch step 10, you won't know what the hell to pray for.

00:43:45.19
Mike
Right.

00:43:45.40
FR. Bill W.
Step 11.

00:43:45.86
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:43:46.73
Bill
yeah

00:43:48.21
FR. Bill W.
So you don't just sit down and pray.

00:43:48.31
Bill
yeah

00:43:51.20
FR. Bill W.
You know, I teach a lot on two-way prayer, cause that's my that's my deal.

00:43:57.35
FR. Bill W.
But you don't just sit down and pray. It's and it's not a slot machine. you know yeah You know, you put a coin in and out comes your answer, you know.

00:44:01.44
Mike
right

00:44:05.59
Mike
aha

00:44:05.74
FR. Bill W.
that's not That's magic, that's magic. You look inside and if you look inside, you know, you're probably going to see some stuff that you're not very happy with. let's say you er

00:44:19.60
Bill
Yeah.

00:44:20.41
FR. Bill W.
Stuff that needs change and stuff that needs help. And i've I've got some prayers that people have sent me. I'm going to read read a few of those, and maybe second part of this gig.

00:44:33.17
Mike
Well, tell you what, Bill, let's ah this is a wonderful time to take a break.

00:44:34.43
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. It's time to quit.

00:44:35.19
Bill
yeah

00:44:37.56
FR. Bill W.
Okay.

00:44:37.70
Mike
We will take this break and we will come back and we will hear some of those prayers right after these words from our sponsors.

00:44:37.66
Bill
yeah

00:44:45.04
FR. Bill W.
all right

00:44:47.89
Bill
All right, so Bill, if you need to, you need to, okay.

00:44:50.00
FR. Bill W.
No, I don't need to. I'm sweating it out. So... No,

00:44:57.05
Mike
Nice.

00:44:57.21
Bill
Well, yeah, I was going to say that's that's okay because I still have, ah still have i have i know where i i know where I have to split with, before we go back in, we'll just be quiet for like two seconds so I can get an even break. but So you're good.

00:45:09.26
Bill
If you need to take a break, feel free, but you're good.

00:45:10.47
FR. Bill W.
I'm good. I'm okay. I'm okay.

00:45:11.82
Bill
Okay.

00:45:12.03
FR. Bill W.
I'm okay.

00:45:12.84
Bill
All right, so let's give me three seconds of silence and I'll bring us back in.

00:45:19.65
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And yeah, we're back to we ended up with connection, correction and direction. Sounds like something from Schoolhouse Rock.

00:45:30.10
Bill
maybe i That's yeah goes back to our childhood.

00:45:30.56
FR. Bill W.
There you go.

00:45:33.50
Bill
But um very interesting. and i I want you to get through, obviously, the rest of your this part of it, because I know that um I know some of this. rings true for so for us, but some of it we have differences with, but I think it'd be an interesting discussion.

00:45:45.36
FR. Bill W.
Sure.

00:45:46.85
Bill
But, uh, but by all means, yeah, go ahead and finish, finish up that this part of what you're talking about. And you want to dive into your book now, or do you want to, when do you want to do that?

00:45:53.72
FR. Bill W.
No.

00:45:54.79
Bill
Okay.

00:45:55.19
FR. Bill W.
no that's OK.

00:45:55.89
Mike
We'll get there.

00:45:56.73
Bill
Yeah, we'll get there.

00:45:56.93
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, we'll get there.

00:45:57.44
Bill
Okay.

00:45:57.87
FR. Bill W.
um so

00:45:59.57
Mike
Yeah, so the prayers that you've received...

00:46:01.37
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:02.27
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, because this is where this is where it comes alive. And and I think you will feel it. a And you'll get an understanding of what the process is. So what encourage people to do is to do do this inner look look and and and your life, you know your day, and and see what your need is.

00:46:25.03
FR. Bill W.
So here's ah I got three prayers that I brought. The first one is from a a young woman and she is two weeks sober. She's in alcohol and drug treatment and had been in treatment four or five times before.

00:46:41.18
FR. Bill W.
And I think she was in her 20s, mid 20s or so. Her question. So I taught him how to do two way prayer. and then And then we did a study. It's a long story.

00:46:54.05
FR. Bill W.
so So her question, God, why can't I stay sober? That's from the heart. Hey, from the heart.

00:47:00.30
Mike
Yeah, right. I think we've all asked it at one time or another.

00:47:02.73
FR. Bill W.
All right. So I encourage people to use a term of endearment coming back from God. My child, my my beloved, my son, my brother, you know, something endearing to begin it. And it kind of gets the juices flowing.

00:47:19.35
FR. Bill W.
So that's what she did. My child, you can. I know you can. But you must trust me. You're not hopeless. The drugs are killing you. You need to change the places you go, the people you hang with.

00:47:33.19
FR. Bill W.
Don't belittle yourself, all the destructive behavior. Take time to love yourself as I do. Love yourself first and foremost. There is light.

00:47:44.33
FR. Bill W.
Trust us. Boom.

00:47:47.83
Bill
Right.

00:47:48.48
FR. Bill W.
Much better than reading somebody else's meditation.

00:47:51.24
Mike
Yeah.

00:47:52.16
FR. Bill W.
You know? She found the voice inside. Now, people, you know, we have voices in our heads.

00:47:55.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:58.67
FR. Bill W.
You know, we have addict voices, we have inner critics, all sorts of voices like that.

00:47:59.00
Mike
Sure.

00:48:05.28
FR. Bill W.
Control freak voices.

00:48:07.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:07.26
FR. Bill W.
You know, there's another voice. There's another voice, you know? and And imagine that it's speaking to you. And once you use your imagination effectively,

00:48:20.01
FR. Bill W.
Then you're going to find that certain things are going to come in your writing that where the hell did that one come from?

00:48:26.62
Mike
All right.

00:48:27.19
FR. Bill W.
I wasn't expecting that. And there it is. You know, there's darkness in us, but there's also light, you know.

00:48:33.70
Mike
All

00:48:35.24
Bill
Right.

00:48:35.95
FR. Bill W.
And this is kind of finding that light that's in each and every one of us and giving expression to it, giving voice to it and being guided by it.

00:48:43.98
Mike
right.

00:48:47.94
FR. Bill W.
And they had, to you know, many

00:48:54.00
FR. Bill W.
things that that they used to, if it wasn't, i heard this voice and off i moved to Chicago, you know, that's ah that's crazy.

00:48:59.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:03.57
FR. Bill W.
but But taking your serious problems and and and meditating on them and and listening for God's voice and listening for God's guidance.

00:49:14.61
FR. Bill W.
And that was the thing. And you can call it God or you can call it your inner wisdom.

00:49:19.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:20.02
FR. Bill W.
it's i mean, I've done Jews, Muslims, Hindus. I've listened to all their prayers. The voice, damn, it always sounds the same.

00:49:28.48
Mike
ah

00:49:29.63
FR. Bill W.
It's the voice of love. And it's the voice of wisdom.

00:49:31.22
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:49:33.09
FR. Bill W.
And it's in each and every one of us.

00:49:35.60
Bill
Right.

00:49:35.75
Mike
Yeah. The voice of truth.

00:49:36.46
FR. Bill W.
Here's a woman. Yeah, it's the truth. it's

00:49:38.82
Mike
Yes.

00:49:39.65
FR. Bill W.
It's the four absolutes.

00:49:41.31
Mike
Thank you.

00:49:41.51
FR. Bill W.
It's the four absolutes. Honesty, purity, unselfishness, and love. That's what...

00:49:46.54
Mike
Yup.

00:49:47.60
FR. Bill W.
and me give me I brought my quotes along. This is Dr. Bob, last major talk, 1948. nineteen forty eight The four absolutes, as we call them, were the only yardsticks we had in the early days before the steps.

00:49:53.60
Mike
Hmm.

00:49:58.99
Bill
right

00:50:00.06
FR. Bill W.
I think the absolutes still hold good and can be extremely helpful. I have found at times when a question arises... And I want to do the right thing, but the answer isn't obvious. Almost always, if I measure my decision carefully by the yardsticks of absolute honesty, absolute unselfishness, absolute purity, and absolute love, and it checks out pretty well with those four, then my answer can't be very far out of the way.

00:50:27.19
Bill
Right. So, Mike, give him give them our opinion and background of the absolutes.

00:50:32.53
Mike
Well, I, we love the absolutes.

00:50:34.21
Bill
Oh, God, love them.

00:50:34.37
Mike
Um, yes.

00:50:34.91
FR. Bill W.
Oh!

00:50:35.53
Bill
Love, love, love.

00:50:35.91
FR. Bill W.
You love them, alright.

00:50:36.73
Bill
Oh, yeah.

00:50:37.46
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's, um, it's, and it's amazing how many AAs have no idea what the hell they are. Yeah.

00:50:45.27
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:50:45.62
Mike
It's, it's, it's blows my mind. Um, thank again, being in Cleveland, um, you know, the, the absolute pamphlet comes from Cleveland central office.

00:50:50.04
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:50:54.29
FR. Bill W.
I bought hundreds of them.

00:50:54.41
Mike
Um, Yes, yes.

00:50:58.01
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:50:58.15
Mike
And, um you know, i for a very long time, again, i don't, I do my home group. That's the meeting I do anymore. But, I mean, for the first six, seven years of my sobriety, I went to a 12-12-4 meeting.

00:51:11.35
Mike
We read the 12-12, you know, the the traditions, the pro you know, and and we did the absolutes.

00:51:11.83
FR. Bill W.
ah

00:51:17.09
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. yeah

00:51:18.83
Mike
And um we just rotated.

00:51:19.95
FR. Bill W.
They're still on the wall in in akron some Akron groups.

00:51:23.26
Mike
Yes, yes, yeah.

00:51:24.43
Bill
Perry Kivolowitz, Norcal PTACCIA, Right.

00:51:25.06
FR. Bill W.
ah Cleveland too? Do you see them in Cleveland?

00:51:27.30
Mike
No, unfortunately not.

00:51:28.18
FR. Bill W.
No.

00:51:28.94
Mike
But yes, but yes, but the absolutes, um again, as you know, I've actually heard that quote from Dr.

00:51:29.39
FR. Bill W.
No.

00:51:34.94
Mike
Bob before and um and it's, yes, and and and I use it.

00:51:36.05
FR. Bill W.
Sure. to report Thank God he said it.

00:51:39.74
Bill
right

00:51:41.32
Mike
I mean, it's it's very important to me. Yeah, if i've if I'm doing something, whatever it is, yes, use those yardsticks.

00:51:48.43
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:51:48.59
Mike
That's, yes, absolutely.

00:51:51.46
FR. Bill W.
Absolutely.

00:51:52.07
Bill
And we were we were we were taught that very early on, like Mike said, that the beauty of being in Cleveland, I had never heard.

00:51:52.26
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:51:52.52
Mike
No pun intended.

00:51:58.96
Bill
my My dad got sober years and years ago. he He passed away right before I got sober, but he got sober in 81 in Cleveland. So i knew I knew a lot about AA stuff from him.

00:52:10.56
FR. Bill W.
yeah

00:52:10.55
Bill
don't I don't remember ever hearing about the absolutes, but that's one of the things to begin with that in in Cleveland AA, I mean, yeah, there' you're going through the steps and you get a sponsor and you're doing all those things.

00:52:21.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:21.26
Bill
But the these guys that we met, um that's the that's like the appetizer.

00:52:21.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:26.67
Bill
There's like, okay, we you got to do this these 12 things on the wall over here. We'll get to those. But here, work on this.

00:52:31.26
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:52:32.87
Bill
You know, and they give us that this bowl full of the absolutes.

00:52:32.94
Mike
yeah

00:52:36.21
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:52:36.19
Bill
and And we were told that to begin with, if you need to make a decision, you talk to somebody if it's a major one, but still run it through those absolutes. And you'll you'll find out pretty quickly, you know, especially if you begin with honesty, which I always do.

00:52:44.84
FR. Bill W.
Right. That's right.

00:52:50.09
Bill
um It's honesty and selfishness, purity and love for me. That's the the order I run through because I can remember the acronym.

00:52:56.31
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:52:57.22
Bill
Um, that's the only reason I run through him in that direction, but honesty is always first.

00:52:59.04
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:53:01.39
Bill
Um, but yeah, to Mike's point, I mean, I, I was in Wisconsin for years. Um, after, I mean, when I was growing up and after I got sober, nobody knew of the absolutes, no one.

00:53:11.20
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. No, and and and they're they're against them down here because they they think, you know, it's perfectionism.

00:53:12.36
Bill
They're great.

00:53:18.57
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:19.17
FR. Bill W.
It's setting you up to be perfect.

00:53:21.49
Mike
Ah.

00:53:21.45
Bill
Where are you at? Where are you at, Bill?

00:53:23.87
FR. Bill W.
Hey, I'm in Austin, Texas.

00:53:25.69
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:53:25.80
Mike
ah

00:53:26.47
Bill
Okay.

00:53:26.90
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:53:27.04
Bill
They're against the absolutes in Texas. I did not know that. So I've got a couple of friends.

00:53:30.32
FR. Bill W.
Oh, yeah.

00:53:30.97
Bill
We've got uh, our friend from, uh, God, what is his name now? Mike, we you we had him on. Um, now I can't remember.

00:53:38.23
Mike
I'm brain dead.

00:53:39.27
Bill
Oh boy. Yeah. We've got, we've got, yeah, we've got, I had a guest we had on.

00:53:40.76
Mike
Anyway.

00:53:42.50
Bill
I've got a friend down in in Houston. I've got, we know a few people in, in Texas.

00:53:45.58
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:53:46.42
Bill
I'll have to ask him about that and see if, uh, um, yeah, see if that,

00:53:49.14
FR. Bill W.
I mean, people who've dug into the history and worked with it, that they understand the absolutes.

00:53:51.49
Mike
isn

00:53:55.82
FR. Bill W.
But most people in 12-step know the absolutes. Bill Wilson made the statement, what? Don't try to get them too good by Thursday. That was his expression, you know?

00:54:07.39
FR. Bill W.
but Easy does it on this thing, you know?

00:54:09.86
Mike
the yeah absolutely

00:54:10.14
FR. Bill W.
so But I found them tremendously helpful.

00:54:14.23
Bill
Oh God, yeah. Yeah.

00:54:16.08
FR. Bill W.
Tremendously helpful.

00:54:20.05
FR. Bill W.
So where were we?

00:54:21.57
Bill
you Well, you yeah, you you did Dr. Bob's quote. you were on your You did your first prayer that you got sent in.

00:54:25.94
FR. Bill W.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:54:26.17
Bill
So I think you got thank you got got two more prayers.

00:54:26.38
Mike
yeah yes yes

00:54:26.74
FR. Bill W.
We were doing the prayers. were doing the prayers.

00:54:28.12
Mike
yes

00:54:29.66
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, here's woman. She's in her 50s. She was in one of the workshops I did several years ago.

00:54:36.62
Mike
hmm.

00:54:36.77
FR. Bill W.
She's in AA, but also in OA, has an eating disorder.

00:54:40.62
Mike
Right.

00:54:41.14
FR. Bill W.
um Heavenly Father. I've been struggling with self-loathing. I look in the mirror and I hate who I see. I feel so unattractive, at my core unlovable.

00:54:56.51
FR. Bill W.
Please help me, Father. She did this in the meeting. Beautiful, the voice, my precious child.

00:55:02.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:05.57
FR. Bill W.
It saddens me to see you hurting so. You are loved more than you could ever know. I've watched you go through losses these last few years, especially the loss of your grandson.

00:55:18.14
FR. Bill W.
My sweet daughter, come to me. I am real and I am safe. Nourish your body. Don't starve it. Speak only love to yourself. Treat others as you wish they would treat you.

00:55:30.09
FR. Bill W.
Do these things and the light of my deep and endless love will fill you and shine through you unto others. Go now. I'm with you. Third one, a guy in long-term recovery writes, my inner critic's been sounding off, telling me I'm a failure, lazy, disorganized.

00:55:48.03
FR. Bill W.
My life is meaningless, and death is only the only thing staring me in the face. A typical day in the life of an alcoholic, eh?

00:55:57.15
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm.

00:55:57.52
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:55:59.58
FR. Bill W.
God help me, was his prayer. God help me. The voice. Did you think the walls would fall without a fight? All the shadows came out yesterday.

00:56:11.95
FR. Bill W.
Let this show you. Your inner life is unmanageable too. You stand at the turning point. Now ask my protection and care with complete abandon.

00:56:23.43
FR. Bill W.
refine, refine, refine. That was the word that came to him. It all comes down to this. Who do you listen to? Who will you follow? Trust me, I'll never let you go.

00:56:35.44
FR. Bill W.
Hold my hand. You are dust, and to dust you will return. But know in the recesses of your heart that you are my dust, always and forever mine.

00:56:51.64
Mike
ah

00:56:52.33
Bill
Nice. Yeah. so these are people that did, did the workshop with you.

00:56:55.56
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:56:57.02
Mike
yeah

00:56:57.01
Bill
Very nice.

00:56:57.77
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. Yeah. Right off the bat, boom, off they go.

00:57:02.00
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:57:02.88
FR. Bill W.
Off they go. Yeah. Give them five minutes, you know, go off in a corner and pour your heart out.

00:57:10.96
Bill
Right.

00:57:11.72
FR. Bill W.
Pour your heart out. And that's what really makes the the connection happen, you see. It becomes real. It's not mechanical. You know, and then there's guidance, you know,

00:57:24.86
FR. Bill W.
I always tell people, you know, Dr. Bob would, would you know, it says in in Dr. Bob and the Good Old Timers, you know, that, you know, he would read his scripture, books and things of that nature, pray for people. And then he'd think of what God was guiding him to do that day.

00:57:43.39
FR. Bill W.
Call somebody, do something. I always ask people, include that after. This is what I call a deep dive. The things that you've heard, those are deep dive. At the end of that, listen for God's guidance.

00:57:55.66
FR. Bill W.
Do four or five things that you're guided to do. It could be rake the leaves.

00:57:58.80
Mike
Mm hmm. All right.

00:58:00.29
FR. Bill W.
you But then go rake the leaves.

00:58:03.03
Mike
Right.

00:58:03.73
FR. Bill W.
you know And do it with God. do it Do it under guidance. and And that disconnection That really goes to the heart, I think, of addiction.

00:58:14.34
FR. Bill W.
We're trying to fill some damn hole inside of us.

00:58:16.77
Mike
Right.

00:58:17.88
FR. Bill W.
You know? and and And it's not going to get filled unless it's spirit.

00:58:18.71
Bill
Right.

00:58:23.48
FR. Bill W.
You

00:58:26.67
Bill
Yeah. And you know, with the, um, with the, with the meditation book, so we, we get introduced to the 24 hour book. We went to both of us.

00:58:34.01
FR. Bill W.
know?

00:58:34.57
Bill
Mike was in Cleveland. I got, I got taken out to Cleveland.

00:58:36.62
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:58:37.93
Bill
We both were in detox, separate detoxes. And then ended up in a sober living facility called the Keating Center in in Cleveland.

00:58:43.95
FR. Bill W.
Mm-hmm.

00:58:44.05
Bill
Um, so that, that's how we met, uh, literally, um, what a week, week or so into our sobriety combined, Mike, I think somewhere in that area.

00:58:46.37
FR. Bill W.
Ah.

00:58:49.68
Mike
Something like that.

00:58:49.75
FR. Bill W.
Wow.

00:58:50.61
Mike
Yep.

00:58:50.71
FR. Bill W.
You guys go way back.

00:58:52.21
Bill
Yeah.

00:58:52.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:52.37
Bill
And I mean, that's how we became friends. And then we we became family over the years. So that's what we consider ourselves to be family more than we're we're not friends anymore.

00:58:56.57
FR. Bill W.
Nice.

00:58:58.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:58.79
FR. Bill W.
Mm-hmm.

00:59:00.01
Bill
right

00:59:00.40
Mike
No, absolutely not.

00:59:00.81
FR. Bill W.
Right.

00:59:01.05
Bill
we yeah did

00:59:01.78
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

00:59:01.82
Mike
Right. Yeah, yeah.

00:59:02.94
Bill
If this at this point, we can't get rid of each other. That's the problem.

00:59:05.62
Mike
right

00:59:05.90
Bill
You know, it's like, you know, you can't can't get rid of your family. It's like, well, we're no longer friends. I guess we're stuck with each other.

00:59:11.14
Mike
yeah yeah

00:59:12.37
Bill
But um so we were introduced to the 24 hour book and then um Mike, you picked up God Grant Me pretty, pretty quickly, right? I think in the first year, maybe.

00:59:19.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:59:21.78
Bill
um And I don't remember when I picked up some of the other books, but both of us read 24 hour book. God Grant Me. Mike is reading Keep It Simple now. I've read that for a handful of years.

00:59:31.91
FR. Bill W.
Mm-hmm.

00:59:32.21
Bill
And then I read the book Touchstones. There's four of them I read and I've rotated that fourth one out. Mike rotates his third one out.

00:59:38.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:38.79
Bill
and And Mike, you put it best about you know when you do those readings every morning. So good thoughts, right? Other people's?

00:59:45.42
Mike
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's I have to start my day. I mean, um I've got to take some good thoughts that aren't mine. That's redundant. and and And yeah, roll them around in my head.

00:59:54.55
FR. Bill W.
right

00:59:55.91
Mike
That's how I start my day every day. um I mean, ah I'm liking, um I'm listening to you, Bill, and I'm listening to this technique, and I'm definitely...

01:00:06.48
Mike
going to try it but i mean i understand the pen to paper thing which i don't do clearly um but i do i do listen for that voice um i'm sure i'm sure bills the other bill has been sitting there waiting for me to bring this up and so i'm going to do it now um i'm an atheist um i was an atheist coming into the you know what i think so

01:00:16.66
FR. Bill W.
Good. Well,

01:00:27.39
FR. Bill W.
good. It'll be easier for you Oh, yeah.

01:00:31.03
FR. Bill W.
oh yeah Oh, you don't have to work through all that nonsense.

01:00:32.85
Bill
hey

01:00:35.21
Mike
Exactly.

01:00:36.44
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:00:36.72
Mike
Right. But, but I mean, you're, you're talking about all these things and, and I'm hearing them and yes, that voice, I have that voice in my head too. I have, you know, the truth as I put it, right.

01:00:47.59
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:00:48.94
Mike
Certain universal truths are there. um You know, um you believe that it comes from an entity. I don't, but it's still there.

01:00:59.55
Mike
I still believe in that.

01:01:00.38
FR. Bill W.
Well, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

01:01:02.04
Mike
Yes, go ahead.

01:01:02.65
FR. Bill W.
I didn't say necessarily it comes from an entity.

01:01:02.96
Mike
Go ahead.

01:01:05.88
Mike
Okay.

01:01:06.11
FR. Bill W.
ah It's a voice. let's Let's just leave it at that.

01:01:09.48
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:01:10.47
FR. Bill W.
And it wants to guide you.

01:01:10.62
Mike
Exactly. Mm-hmm.

01:01:13.89
FR. Bill W.
All right?

01:01:13.95
Mike
It's, well, it's there.

01:01:14.73
FR. Bill W.
And there are people who've been listening to it for years, particularly the mystics, particularly the mystics of all of the different faiths.

01:01:17.96
Mike
Absolutely. Yes. Mm-hmm.

01:01:21.40
Bill
Right.

01:01:23.35
Mike
Right.

01:01:24.26
FR. Bill W.
You know?

01:01:25.10
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:01:25.91
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:26.66
Mike
Yeah. And, and, Yeah, exactly. You know, and it doesn't matter, you know, what you want to call it and what you want to, you know, believe that it comes from or whatever.

01:01:33.33
FR. Bill W.
No.

01:01:34.99
Mike
It just, it is.

01:01:36.43
FR. Bill W.
It is

01:01:36.75
Mike
That's enough. That's enough.

01:01:38.21
FR. Bill W.
that's That's everything.

01:01:38.45
Bill
right

01:01:39.72
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:39.93
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:01:40.66
Mike
Hmm.

01:01:40.74
Bill
Yeah.

01:01:40.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:40.90
Bill
And that's ah and and, you know, the thing that is and I um I'll be honest, Mike, I mean, whether or not you were going to bring it up, I wasn't really wondering if you would or not, because I just figured that um if it if you brought up the fact that you were you know an atheist, I'm agnostic at best, you know, so it's it's kind of fun.

01:01:56.58
Bill
I came in and Bill, I like the fact that you said it was easier. So I came in when I came into the whole Alcoholics Anonymous program.

01:02:00.76
FR. Bill W.
yeah

01:02:00.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:05.39
Bill
We have friends that are on that are on the God side and on the religious side that felt that they had been wronged over the years by whatever the thing is, whether it was a ah physical you know structure they went to or an individual or, you know, again, this being or entity.

01:02:11.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:16.69
FR. Bill W.
People are mad, angry with religion.

01:02:19.15
Bill
Exactly. So they had to get over that hump they felt to to find this this higher power in AA.

01:02:22.99
FR. Bill W.
That's right.

01:02:25.38
Bill
And and Mike openly has admitted he wasn't sure how he was going to deal with the with the God thing in AA, and I wasn't either. But then we were all we were told that you know it doesn't matter what you believe in as long as you know that it is not you, which they gave that to us very early.

01:02:40.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:02:40.77
FR. Bill W.
Mm-hmm.

01:02:40.86
Bill
um Now, to Mike's point, and I never knew why I did the readings. I mean, we were directed to do it. But I didn't really know what I was getting out of it. And and Mike put it that way. Yeah, put somebody somebody else's thoughts in my head, blah, blah, blah.

01:02:53.09
Bill
But I do. It gets me thinking. And then now add this level of the podcast. We do a reading every episode that we have where it's just us. And then I pick little things out of the readings on a semi-regular basis and we have discussions about it.

01:03:00.99
FR. Bill W.
yeah

01:03:05.60
Bill
That's a big part of our podcast. um It's not really structured. It is, but it isn't. You know, I mean, it's conversational.

01:03:10.65
FR. Bill W.
right

01:03:11.76
Bill
But then the other thing, too, I like to write, not necessarily AA based stuff, although I've done recovery writings. But every once in a while, um you know, I mean, it just could be anything. I feel like you just said, if you feel compelled to to do something, to take action with something, whether it's rate the lease, if you feel guided to do that, do it.

01:03:30.91
Bill
And there are times when I just get a thought and I just want to write about it, you know.

01:03:34.68
FR. Bill W.
Sure.

01:03:34.61
Bill
And sometimes i'll I'll write when I have, you know, good feelings, whether I call a bad feelings or weird feelings, I'll write my emotions out, you know, and sometimes I publish them, you know, or post them. Sometimes I have it, you know, sometimes they're just mine.

01:03:48.62
Bill
But, you know, to to both of your points and when Mike said the truth and the voice and all those things, all of us have it. It's just a matter, I think, of being. For me, and I guess I'll speak for myself, my mind was so clouded with with booze and garbage for so many years, I didn't have room for it any other voice, you know let alone let alone a good one.

01:04:03.34
FR. Bill W.
sure

01:04:08.26
Bill
And when all of that stuff cleared, all the fog clears and this and that, and I start listening and these other people's good thoughts, and then that inner voice in me is no longer smothered. So then that is, I guess, allowed to come out and encouraged to come out because I'm living a life now where I want to have that that voice and other people's voices guide me.

01:04:19.99
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:04:26.88
Bill
I don't know if that makes any sense.

01:04:28.77
FR. Bill W.
It does, you know, and jung Jung says that there are two different centers in in his psychology. There are two centers. There's the ego center and there's the psyche.

01:04:43.94
FR. Bill W.
You know?

01:04:44.27
Mike
Hmm. All

01:04:46.25
FR. Bill W.
And that is the voice. See, you who said that to me? Bill, you're 27. If those are your choices, there's something wrong with you. That wasn't me.

01:04:56.35
Bill
Right.

01:04:56.45
Mike
right.

01:04:56.62
Bill
Right.

01:04:58.03
Mike
Uh huh.

01:04:57.99
Bill
right

01:04:58.76
FR. Bill W.
It wasn't the me that I know. Now, didn't hear another voice for 20 years. I mean, I did the AA thing, read my 24-hour book, all that stuff. But I didn't know that that voice could be listened to

01:05:12.61
Mike
Hmm.

01:05:13.22
FR. Bill W.
and looked to and and you can be guided by it with the absolutes there to kind of make sure you don't go a little, you know, nutso with the thing.

01:05:22.06
Mike
yeah right yeah Some guardrails.

01:05:25.70
FR. Bill W.
Little guardrails, that's the word. That's the word I was looking for. yeah

01:05:29.26
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:30.83
Bill
Yeah, we still need it. It doesn't matter whether it's 15 or 53 years. We all need some guardrails, right?

01:05:36.55
Mike
yeah Yes.

01:05:36.94
Bill
yeah yeah

01:05:37.30
FR. Bill W.
Right, but but you know, what what I've seen in the workshops that I've done, ah i mean, a good number of the people were in tears.

01:05:38.23
Bill
ah

01:05:49.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:05:50.27
FR. Bill W.
I mean, they are hearing what? Love.

01:05:55.33
Mike
ah

01:05:55.97
FR. Bill W.
You know, they're hearing the voice of love. And and a lot of us grew up abused and neglected and really screwed up our lives and guilt and shame and all that good stuff and and to hear inside of ourselves the voice of love yeah I mean that's what we're looking for you know that's to me that's the divine

01:06:21.20
Mike
Right.

01:06:21.83
Bill
Right.

01:06:26.61
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:06:26.82
FR. Bill W.
It's the God image. i de of you know you have Jung talked about the God image. Jung said, I cannot speak about God. I do not know God.

01:06:35.58
Bill
Right.

01:06:35.67
FR. Bill W.
you know

01:06:35.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:36.68
FR. Bill W.
But I can talk about your image of God.

01:06:39.63
Mike
yes

01:06:40.55
FR. Bill W.
What is your image of God?

01:06:43.51
Bill
right

01:06:44.33
FR. Bill W.
And that's what that's what people do in in the two-way prayer. They get an image that works for them.

01:06:51.39
Mike
Right.

01:06:51.61
Bill
Right.

01:06:51.91
FR. Bill W.
You know? and And if they've been been abused by religion and stuff, like ah like we said, it's going to be a little harder.

01:06:59.96
Bill
Right.

01:07:00.12
FR. Bill W.
Because you're going to think you tried that route and it didn't work.

01:07:00.36
Mike
Mm

01:07:03.48
Mike
hmm. Mm

01:07:03.88
FR. Bill W.
One of the things that really, you know, I struggled with the the Christian thing. i I wasn't, I mean, I couldn't, I didn't believe a lot of the stuff. That's one of the reasons I left the Jesuits.

01:07:14.72
FR. Bill W.
I didn't, if I have to believe this, I'm sorry, I don't believe it.

01:07:15.57
Mike
hmm.

01:07:18.22
FR. Bill W.
I just don't believe it, you know?

01:07:19.69
Mike
Right? It doesn't make any damn sense.

01:07:20.73
FR. Bill W.
like don't. Doesn't make any sense, you know. i mean, fundamentalists, AA fundamentalists and religious fundamentalists drive me crazy.

01:07:30.96
Mike
Absolutely.

01:07:32.19
FR. Bill W.
You know, they drive me crazy.

01:07:32.24
Bill
Right.

01:07:35.30
FR. Bill W.
But I'm not sure where i was going. We should really do these things at six o'clock in the morning. I am a hell of a lot sharper than six o'clock at night. My God.

01:07:44.08
Mike
right

01:07:45.42
FR. Bill W.
but such

01:07:45.58
Bill
Yeah. So, yeah, that's the thing. We, here's a, here's a funny part. And I know that we, we tried, um gosh, when we first started, what for the first year well, after we started having guests after the first six, eight months, whatever it was, we tried working around other people's schedules.

01:07:56.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:00.02
Bill
And both of us work full-time jobs, you know, still just, this isn't a, it'd be lovely if this was a full-time thing.

01:08:02.08
FR. Bill W.
ah her

01:08:05.00
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:08:06.09
Bill
We could actually support ourselves, but this, I mean, you will you know, you well I want to talk ask you about your podcast here in a minute, anyhow.

01:08:06.36
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:08:09.84
FR. Bill W.
I know. Yeah, yeah.

01:08:12.07
Bill
But um so, Now we're just like, hey, you know, this is when we do it because this works for us based on our schedules. But I get it. i mean, there are times when both of us, um you know, well, Mike tonight, I mean, he when he got on here, he's like, I just got home a half hour ago.

01:08:25.46
Bill
Get to get to shove some pizza in his face before he before he got on.

01:08:28.13
FR. Bill W.
<unk>

01:08:29.18
Bill
I get done.

01:08:29.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:29.90
Bill
i get done with work at it's three o'clock on Fridays. I'm in central time also right now.

01:08:33.97
FR. Bill W.
her yeah

01:08:34.66
Bill
um You know, so I got time. You know i got time to kick around a little bit and get everything set up and eat and. You know, but um yeah, it's just, it's, I get it though. Yeah. We've had, we've had people on that, you know, have run long days or not been feeling well, whatever it is. And yeah, it gets, it gets a little weird at this time at night. But so with the podcast thing though, um how and when did you get involved in, in podcasting and what is the name of your podcast and what do you talk about on there?

01:08:59.68
FR. Bill W.
Well, um it's called Father Bill W. And imagine that.

01:09:03.93
Bill
Imagine that.

01:09:05.89
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:09:06.15
Mike
That's original.

01:09:07.33
FR. Bill W.
Well, they asked me, they asked me, the the guy, I had a kind of a high tech guy who was advising me and he said, do you want to just talk about two way prayer?

01:09:07.27
Bill
Yeah.

01:09:07.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:16.71
FR. Bill W.
You're going to go broader than that.

01:09:18.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:18.96
FR. Bill W.
Cause I was thinking about calling it two way prayer.

01:09:20.98
Bill
right

01:09:21.55
FR. Bill W.
He said, well, I'm going to want to go broader. I want to go into the history, the psychology, the spirituality. You know, i man I've worked with alcoholics and addicts all my life. When when I got ordained it to be a priest,

01:09:34.04
FR. Bill W.
I was real clear with the bishop. I said, if we're talking to Parrish, I'm not your guy. you know

01:09:38.78
Mike
Right.

01:09:39.34
FR. Bill W.
I only want to work with alcoholics and addict addicts. Those are my people. you know and the

01:09:42.60
Bill
right

01:09:44.83
FR. Bill W.
And ah so so I call the Father Bill W. um Yeah, and i I've been doing it, I guess, about five years, four or five years, something.

01:09:53.33
Bill
Okay.

01:09:54.66
FR. Bill W.
a but like people've started before the COVID thing. So I've lost track of time. I'm having so much fun.

01:10:01.35
Bill
I was going to say, yeah, probably five, five plus if it's been before.

01:10:03.13
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, if i five of yeah It's some like 250 episodes or such. so it's ah um um and ah and i And I try to have good content, get good guests.

01:10:14.44
FR. Bill W.
You know, you guys really screwed up with me. i don't know how the hell you did this, but your your numbers are going to go through the boom.

01:10:16.93
Mike
Oh,

01:10:18.60
Bill
No, you know what? And let let me take No, let's take a quick sidestep on here. We were joking about this because, um I mean, you are by all means completely out of the ordinary of any of the guests just because, well, because...

01:10:23.75
FR. Bill W.
Okay.

01:10:30.84
FR. Bill W.
yeah I noticed that. I haven't even heard the F-bomb yet. Come on.

01:10:34.44
Mike
ah well, fucking ay Thank you.

01:10:34.57
Bill
Well, it's...

01:10:34.84
FR. Bill W.
What is going on? Fucking A. Yeah, let's go.

01:10:37.32
Bill
Yeah.

01:10:37.52
FR. Bill W.
Let's go.

01:10:37.48
Bill
So, okay.

01:10:38.36
FR. Bill W.
There you go.

01:10:38.60
Bill
Well, and wait, wait till the end. There's how many are in your, in your ending, Mike? There's 12 or 13 in your ending.

01:10:42.81
Mike
yeah Something like that.

01:10:43.89
Bill
We were, I was thinking in my head that we weren't going to ending, but now father Bill, fuck it. We're doing the ending.

01:10:48.34
FR. Bill W.
Fuck.

01:10:48.41
Bill
Like we do it.

01:10:48.66
FR. Bill W.
There you go. That's the short serenity.

01:10:49.67
Bill
But so,

01:10:51.08
FR. Bill W.
That's the short serenity prayer, you know.

01:10:52.69
Mike
yes it is

01:10:54.18
Bill
but so, so here's the thing though, when, cause I'm the one that I just happened to and be the one that man's the email. So when I got it, First of all, I'll be honest with you. I thought, why is this gentleman want to be on our podcast?

01:11:03.13
FR. Bill W.
Oh, no.

01:11:05.00
Bill
That's number one.

01:11:05.25
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:11:06.12
Bill
But then I threw up by Mike and I'm like, what do you think? You know, I'm like, and he's like, yeah, let's, let's look at something different. So, and that's been our mindset with this.

01:11:13.81
FR. Bill W.
Well, you know, I did the same thing. I did the same thing, Bill. You know, I said, do I want to go on with these F-bomb throwing idiots?

01:11:16.94
Mike
Sure.

01:11:16.92
Bill
Right. I would, I would hope so. I hope.

01:11:21.64
FR. Bill W.
You know, I don't think so. And the guidance was, well, you never know who the hell you're going to reach. is There'll be a different audience here.

01:11:28.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:29.67
Bill
Right. Well, and and that's the that's the whole thing, because when when we first when we started this podcast and Mike brought up AA in his in his story, which was our our episode three, because we didn't know if we were how we were going to talk about, but it just naturally came out.

01:11:31.80
FR. Bill W.
it

01:11:41.50
FR. Bill W.
uh-huh

01:11:45.37
Bill
He did. His story was um about a what half hour lead, and then we talked about it. Right, Mike?

01:11:51.12
Mike
Right.

01:11:51.42
Bill
Um, but he brought up, you know, AA and all sorts of things. And then it's like, okay, good. We we've opened up this and we can talk about it. But then we got, we started getting approached by people from different areas of recovery.

01:12:03.49
Bill
We joined Instagram and I start seeing all these different things. People are just alcohol free and in sober curious. And I'm like, what are all these things, you know?

01:12:11.10
FR. Bill W.
a

01:12:11.95
Bill
And there's people out there that are staying sober long-term sobriety, you know, by using other methods, you know, and then, you know, even though we're not we're not normally God people, and it's fine. We have nothing against it.

01:12:25.41
Bill
um you know So that was the mindset of like, what the hell? If this individual wants to come on, who are we to say no?

01:12:31.17
FR. Bill W.
There you go. Uh-huh.

01:12:32.60
Bill
um Because i quite honestly, I would have thought that it's probably more of a more of a stretch for you than it is for us. We'll talk to anyone. We can, I mean, we're going to be honest with you where we, where we come from.

01:12:40.48
Mike
Mmm.

01:12:42.31
Bill
you know, we're not going to try to be like, oh yeah, we go to church every Sunday and try to, we're not going to chameleon, you know, you or anyone else, but we're also not going to be disrespectful because that's the thing we've, we've said no to guests that we don't think we're going to click with because we don't want it to be weird.

01:12:48.42
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:12:50.85
FR. Bill W.
Right. no

01:12:55.69
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:12:58.32
Bill
And mainly it'd be weird for the other person.

01:12:58.45
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, no, I have i have as well.

01:13:00.80
Bill
We don't want to make it weird for somebody else.

01:13:01.45
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:13:02.84
Bill
But um and if you would have told me anything other than you question being on here, that would have surprised me.

01:13:03.92
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:13:09.13
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:13:10.20
Bill
so So thank you. I mean, it's it's seriously, it's wonderful because, yes, it's out of the early. This has been a ridiculously wonderful conversation.

01:13:18.51
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:13:19.05
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:13:19.31
Bill
i didn't I had no idea what to expect. you know And this has been not only...

01:13:23.37
FR. Bill W.
right No, it's it's been a pleasure at my end as well.

01:13:25.92
Bill
Oh, it's been great.

01:13:26.21
FR. Bill W.
So thank you.

01:13:26.64
Bill
It's been wonderful. And, you know, the so the the podcast, and I'm sorry to mean to interrupt that part of it, but, you know, everyone has a podcast.

01:13:27.66
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:13:32.98
Bill
That's why usually ask people how they get into it. But I like the fact that you that you kept it open and broad.

01:13:35.35
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:13:38.22
Bill
We didn't know what we wanted to do. You put thought into it, it sounds like, um yeah because we didn't.

01:13:39.74
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:13:41.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:43.59
Bill
You know, so we we talked to all these people like, oh, we planned and we had all these episodes.

01:13:43.74
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:13:46.83
Bill
this was our This was our vision. we're like, oh, my God, we had nothing like that. You know, but um so you're 250 episodes. You're out there talking and doing your thing. So you're talking about your the two way prayer.

01:13:58.87
Bill
You've got a book. We want to talk about that because that's coming out in July, if I'm not mistaken.

01:14:01.43
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:14:02.39
Bill
Correct.

01:14:03.30
FR. Bill W.
July 1st it comes out. you i

01:14:04.96
Bill
That's what I thought.

01:14:05.18
Mike
A couple of weeks.

01:14:06.06
FR. Bill W.
I did yeah i did the i did the the podcasting. I did the workshops. um What they told me is you need to do a book.

01:14:17.50
Bill
hmm.

01:14:17.69
FR. Bill W.
And I've never written a book in my life and I'll never do another one.

01:14:20.96
Bill
yeah

01:14:21.04
FR. Bill W.
But I've been really clear that my... my Guidance has been, and it's been consistent for 30 some odd years, get two-way prayer out to people.

01:14:30.90
Mike
Hmm.

01:14:30.88
Bill
Right.

01:14:31.05
Mike
Hmm.

01:14:33.90
Bill
Right.

01:14:34.03
Mike
ah

01:14:34.49
FR. Bill W.
It's the missing element in in the 12-step program. It got lost, it got left behind.

01:14:40.61
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:14:40.90
FR. Bill W.
And so that, and and and the other thing has been, you know, and get people to take another look at the four absolutes, that there's something valuable there.

01:14:49.32
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:14:49.46
Bill
Oh God, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:14:53.15
FR. Bill W.
You know, and so that's been my guiding light that that's what I wanted want to do.

01:14:53.98
Mike
Yeah. Mm

01:14:59.57
FR. Bill W.
I need to do. Damn near, I'm going to turn 80 pretty soon.

01:15:01.25
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

01:15:03.49
FR. Bill W.
It's like, you know, this is the, I'm getting to the end of the run. And the and i want to leave the trail for people to pick up um and get away from the damn mechanical meeting stuff.

01:15:08.48
Mike
Right.

01:15:13.73
Bill
Right.

01:15:19.68
Mike
Nice.

01:15:19.83
Bill
Right.

01:15:20.56
FR. Bill W.
You know?

01:15:21.39
Bill
You know, and that's one of the one of the things that it really...

01:15:24.33
FR. Bill W.
And it's free, it's all free.

01:15:25.73
Mike
Right. Right.

01:15:26.70
Bill
yeah But I mean, that that really...

01:15:27.88
FR. Bill W.
Not trying to make any money out of the damn thing.

01:15:29.93
Mike
here right

01:15:30.90
Bill
But that really grabbed me when you talked about the mechanical part of it, because um it is, it's a you get into this, into this rotation and this routine. And when I moved from Cleveland out to Madison, Wisconsin, I went to different types of meetings just because they didn't have the, you know, like the speaker meetings or lead meetings.

01:15:42.84
FR. Bill W.
Ah.

01:15:46.11
Bill
So I went to discussion meetings and my mind was blown in a different direction. Then I went to these different meetings in different areas. So it is, it's like, I need to be entertained, I guess, if you want to put it something different and it does, it gets a little,

01:15:56.29
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:15:59.16
Bill
and like mechanical is a great way to put it. I like, I like.

01:16:01.16
FR. Bill W.
Right. and if But if you become if you become the entertainer, look at all the the folks who are on the the AA speaker circuit.

01:16:10.42
Bill
Right.

01:16:10.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:11.17
FR. Bill W.
I mean, for God's sake, I had a really good sponsor in the beginning. He said, Bill, tell your story once a year. If you're doing it more than that, you're becoming a ham.

01:16:18.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:21.94
FR. Bill W.
If you're doing it less, you're not involved enough.

01:16:22.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:22.75
Bill
Right.

01:16:25.16
Bill
Right.

01:16:25.40
FR. Bill W.
I thought that was really good advice.

01:16:27.31
Mike
it is

01:16:28.13
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:16:28.13
Bill
Yeah, it really is.

01:16:28.33
FR. Bill W.
And for 50 some odd years, that's what I've tried to do.

01:16:29.14
Bill
It is.

01:16:31.50
FR. Bill W.
But now my guidance has changed. You know, it's, it's, you know, go on these podcasts and get the word out about, about the book and the website. People don't even have to buy the book.

01:16:42.48
FR. Bill W.
It's all on the website, you know, and it's all free.

01:16:44.03
Mike
Hmm.

01:16:46.46
FR. Bill W.
a I mean, I, I, I ran treatment centers all my life, mostly for the poor. And the beautiful thing about this is, uh, People can't afford a therapist.

01:16:57.17
Mike
right

01:16:57.64
FR. Bill W.
you know They can't afford it. And they're not going to get it. So if you can get 10 minutes of sanity in the morning, when when you're listening to love and you're listening to an honest voice and an unselfish, you're finding that unselfishness within you, you're being guided by that.

01:17:16.85
FR. Bill W.
Man, you're on your way. at least you've started.

01:17:20.20
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:20.91
Bill
Right.

01:17:21.26
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:21.98
FR. Bill W.
So I'm committed to

01:17:21.99
Mike
Yeah. Nice.

01:17:24.81
Bill
And I will put um in, if anyone hope, well, people are listening to this now as as obviously it's been recorded, but um I'm going to put, Oh yeah, I think there's, there's two or three, two or three.

01:17:31.22
FR. Bill W.
You think we got anybody left? and I thought we drove them all off.

01:17:34.08
Mike
Yeah.

01:17:35.97
Bill
So I will end up, I'll have a link to the, to the book in the, on Spotify. It's always a click through, but link to the book in there and also a link to your website. So I'll have both of those. And I always put stuff up on, yeah, I mean, in,

01:17:45.22
FR. Bill W.
Yeah. Sign up for the newsletter, too.

01:17:47.82
Mike
boom

01:17:48.78
Bill
I always put the, you know, um all this stuff will be on Instagram too, and we'll have links in there.

01:17:51.54
FR. Bill W.
Cool.

01:17:52.30
Bill
But the thing of it is, is, you know, I, Mike and always say, you know, people, people, if you know how to use Google, look it up. I mean, that we're going to have his, we'll have his name and his book and everything in there.

01:17:59.98
FR. Bill W.
That's right.

01:18:02.07
Bill
You'll be able to find it. But so talk about the book though.

01:18:03.26
FR. Bill W.
Yeah,

01:18:05.20
Bill
The book is coming out on July 1st. Tell us, I mean, how that, all that all came about. It's all ready to roll. It's just a matter of that's the release date.

01:18:13.58
FR. Bill W.
yeah it's all written. I've got some advanced copies. and It looks very nice. It looks very nice.

01:18:21.60
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:22.60
FR. Bill W.
I tried to be honest in the thing. i tell my story. I tell i tell how how how the two-way prayer thing got lost. and how how important it was ah in the early AA days.

01:18:30.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:35.34
FR. Bill W.
um I talk about the four absolutes. I teach people how to do the practice. um I tell people, you know, like like we were talking about, who is this voice?

01:18:46.47
FR. Bill W.
You want to call it God?

01:18:47.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:47.59
FR. Bill W.
You want to call it something else? doesn't really matter, you know?

01:18:50.74
Bill
Right.

01:18:51.35
FR. Bill W.
You know, we all have voices in our heads.

01:18:53.71
Mike
Right.

01:18:53.72
FR. Bill W.
Let's find one that's on our side. you

01:18:55.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:57.33
Bill
okay

01:18:57.58
FR. Bill W.
ah Then I got a lot of examples of the two-way prayer. Then they go a little deeper. you know Like i said, I've done a lot of Jung studies and I do inner child work and I make that part of my morning meditation as well.

01:19:14.75
FR. Bill W.
Inner child, dream analysis. I did a dream thing this morning and I can't afford a therapist either. So ah I say to Jesus, what the hell does this dream mean?

01:19:27.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:28.28
Bill
hey

01:19:29.68
FR. Bill W.
And then I write from from from his perspective. It's very effective. It's very effective. Most Jungians would probably say, that's terrible.

01:19:41.88
FR. Bill W.
We'll kick you out of you know Zurich. yeah But that's all right.

01:19:45.47
Bill
hey

01:19:47.03
FR. Bill W.
It's all right. I do the best I can. And and you know it's this inner world. That's where it's at.

01:19:57.58
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:19:57.89
FR. Bill W.
And a lot of us guys got stuck at six and seven years old.

01:20:03.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:03.60
FR. Bill W.
You know? i mean, Bill Wilson, look at him, for God's sakes. His father walked out on him, then his mother walked out on him. He was abandoned.

01:20:14.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:14.85
FR. Bill W.
You know? and And he was empty inside. And he went to, you know, two psychiatrists. You know, he had to get help.

01:20:24.60
Mike
Right.

01:20:25.38
Bill
Right.

01:20:25.51
FR. Bill W.
You know? Where are you going to get it that's I mean, I ran treatment centers for years and it's like, ah you know, I see these beautiful people surfacing, coming out of the water.

01:20:29.38
Mike
ah and it

01:20:39.33
FR. Bill W.
Now, what are they going to get when they get out of out of the treatment center?

01:20:44.02
Mike
Right.

01:20:44.50
FR. Bill W.
You know, if it's mechanical AA, well, some of them will stay dry. But if, you know, My first sponsor said, you know, Bill, you're going to see a lot of people who have limited conversions.

01:20:53.59
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:59.05
FR. Bill W.
I thought that was a lovely expression.

01:20:59.29
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:01.09
FR. Bill W.
Most people in AA have limited conversions. They go just so far.

01:21:04.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:06.53
Bill
right

01:21:07.27
FR. Bill W.
And if you'll really learn, you know, what the map is, the map to your soul, you can the you depths you can go to unlimited.

01:21:19.59
Bill
right

01:21:19.73
FR. Bill W.
I really believe that.

01:21:21.47
Mike
ah Yeah, absolutely. i mean... i I'm digging this, man. You know, um yes. Focusing on on the goodness that's in us. It is in us.

01:21:31.12
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:21:31.84
Mike
It's in all of us. You know, I mean, that's, I found that, I found that through AA.

01:21:33.16
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:21:38.40
FR. Bill W.
That's me too. Me too.

01:21:39.48
Mike
Yeah, right. You know, I mean, yeah, you know,

01:21:40.66
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:21:42.79
Mike
I've got all this garbage in me. I can focus on that. can, you know, I, I mean, I say on here all the time, look, my thoughts are still all fucked up.

01:21:45.89
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:21:50.00
Mike
Um, you know, and they are, and that's, that's fine.

01:21:50.30
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:21:51.60
Bill
hey

01:21:53.75
Mike
I I've come to, it yeah.

01:21:54.65
FR. Bill W.
Because they're fear-based.

01:21:56.39
Mike
And I, and I, I've, Learn to, you know, live with them and and and learned how not to pay attention to them. Learn to pay attention to that good stuff.

01:22:06.47
Mike
Like you said, this, you know, I mean, I'm kind of, i kind of do what you're saying.

01:22:07.47
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:22:10.84
Mike
ah you've just put it, it

01:22:11.59
FR. Bill W.
Yeah, no, you're pretty close.

01:22:13.18
Mike
You know, you just put it in a way that, it ah again, direction.

01:22:13.39
FR. Bill W.
You're pretty close. Yeah.

01:22:18.80
Mike
that's That's beautiful. You know, that's the whole point of all this, man.

01:22:20.68
FR. Bill W.
That's it.

01:22:22.35
Mike
This one drunk telling me, no, here, do it this way.

01:22:22.63
FR. Bill W.
That's it.

01:22:25.47
Mike
Oh, okay. That makes sense. Thank you.

01:22:30.10
Bill
Yeah, and it's been this our our entire and that's the thing, you know, we we talk about Cleveland AA all the time.

01:22:30.29
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:22:35.22
Bill
But, you know, then then meeting somebody, you know, this way that but that's the same thing. Like you said, at 20 years, you were, you know, feeling whatever this thing was. And then you had this whole other epiphany type of thing or a whole other, you know, journey over in this direction.

01:22:49.12
Bill
and And it's amazing. So yeah you go back to, again, you know, if we would looked like, I wouldn't want to have a priest on, or this guy's not going to want to, you know, he's not gonna be interesting.

01:22:55.02
Mike
Hehe.

01:22:57.92
Bill
And then, you know, we don't open up our minds to have the the opportunity to hear, again, the things that we're sort of doing, but, you know, you just simplified and gave us ah ah pathway. It's like, okay, you don't have to run through these bushes over here to go the same way.

01:23:11.02
Bill
I've got this clearing over here. Do this, try this, if nothing else.

01:23:13.07
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:23:15.14
Bill
And that is the beauty of like Mike just said, one drunk, tell another one, no, try it this way. Okay.

01:23:21.32
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:23:21.97
Bill
Because the the beauty of that is too, that um we've known you for one hour and 23 minutes, maybe one hour and 28 minutes. Cause I think we talked to you for a few minutes beforehand.

01:23:31.17
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:23:31.51
Mike
hey

01:23:31.52
Bill
So, but why in the world should we trust you? But I do. And I know Mike does because, you know, not just cause you've been around for 50 odd, you know, goddamn years,

01:23:39.41
FR. Bill W.
No, that means nothing. That means nothing.

01:23:41.21
Mike
Right.

01:23:41.43
Bill
No, it's just because you speak our language. You are you you.

01:23:44.24
FR. Bill W.
right

01:23:44.70
Bill
We know that you have the nothing but good, you know, good intentions and good thoughts for us. And you can help to teach us again, whether you've been sober for five years or 50 years, we can all learn from each other. And that's the point, you know.

01:23:57.96
FR. Bill W.
That's it. And the history, the history has a lot to teach us.

01:24:01.42
Bill
Right.

01:24:02.17
Mike
Always.

01:24:02.12
Bill
ah Yeah.

01:24:02.90
FR. Bill W.
A lot to teach us.

01:24:02.96
Mike
Everything.

01:24:03.24
Bill
Yeah.

01:24:05.69
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:24:06.54
Mike
Yeah, everything.

01:24:07.85
FR. Bill W.
Right.

01:24:08.95
Bill
So I have a question for you.

01:24:09.74
FR. Bill W.
Very good.

01:24:10.27
Bill
I have to ask you this question.

01:24:10.66
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:24:11.67
Bill
So um we when when did I say that, Mike? I never thought we'd talk about the Pope once, twice, let alone now three times.

01:24:18.07
Mike
okay

01:24:18.38
Bill
Did you, had you ever met the Pope, Bill? Or no, the new Pope?

01:24:22.25
FR. Bill W.
No, no, no, no.

01:24:23.04
Bill
Okay.

01:24:23.82
FR. Bill W.
no

01:24:23.85
Bill
I was just thinking, you know, I mean, first one, you know, American, this and that, blah, blah. blah I'm like, because that would have been my my dream and my hope was for meeting you tonight is we would have been one degree separation away from the Pope. I just thought that would have been kind of cool, but it's okay.

01:24:36.79
Bill
It's okay. You know, do do better next do better next time, Bill.

01:24:39.05
FR. Bill W.
yeah

01:24:39.61
Bill
come Come with something more to the table, like, hey, I know the Pope.

01:24:41.96
FR. Bill W.
I was waiting for the call.

01:24:43.15
Bill
hey

01:24:43.68
FR. Bill W.
I don't know why the hell they didn't call me.

01:24:45.08
Mike
Right.

01:24:46.00
FR. Bill W.
you know

01:24:46.24
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:24:47.44
FR. Bill W.
i had the smoke all ready to go up the chimney here.

01:24:47.79
Bill
yeah

01:24:49.71
Mike
yeah

01:24:49.88
Bill
yeah yeah No, it was just kind of funny because it was this, uh, the, one of the, one of the guys they were talking about, um, his name was something pizza, something.

01:24:59.96
Bill
And I'm like, it might, can I eat pizza every Friday night? It's kind of one of our things.

01:25:03.56
FR. Bill W.
Yeah.

01:25:04.02
Bill
And I'm like, if the new Pope and Mike obviously made it clear, it reminded me, which I knew, but it's like, you don't we realize they pick a new name.

01:25:09.78
FR. Bill W.
There you

01:25:11.04
Bill
I'm like, doesn't matter. It's real. They would be pizza though. You know, so I'm like, if there was like Pope Pete's out there, that would have been just ridiculously fun.

01:25:14.24
FR. Bill W.
go.

01:25:17.57
Bill
But the fact that the guy's from Illinois and just, I mean, is that White Sox fan and all this stuff, it just, it's kind of i don't know. It's kind of mind blowing. It's, it's comical, but it's, it's interesting.

01:25:26.21
FR. Bill W.
Well, it's down to earth. It's down to earth.

01:25:27.91
Bill
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

01:25:30.43
FR. Bill W.
You know?

01:25:30.50
Bill
yeah You could have ran into the guy at, you know, I don't know, whatever.

01:25:34.04
FR. Bill W.
I liked Francis. I liked Francis. I mean, he tried to bring it down to earth in many ways too.

01:25:39.68
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:25:40.28
Bill
Right.

01:25:40.56
FR. Bill W.
You know, I can carry my own suitcase. I don't, I don't need all, all this ermine and furs on me. You know, come on get real.

01:25:50.15
Mike
isn

01:25:50.22
Bill
Right.

01:25:51.48
FR. Bill W.
When I got ordained, I had I had a crazy priest who was a friend of mine and, uh, he used to play for the Dallas Cowboys and, uh, it And and they they do what they call the charge.

01:26:06.46
FR. Bill W.
You stand up, you're you're getting ordained, and and he kind of addresses you. And the bishop is there, and you know, you're supposed to be holy and all that good stuff.

01:26:18.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:18.17
FR. Bill W.
And he says to me, he says to me, Bill, here's my charge to you. The last thing this world needs is another safe priest.

01:26:29.75
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:30.43
FR. Bill W.
Be yourself.

01:26:32.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:32.72
FR. Bill W.
Don't be who they want you to be, because they'll kill you.

01:26:35.72
Bill
Right.

01:26:38.01
FR. Bill W.
And you could see the bishop's eyes getting bigger by the minute, you know.

01:26:41.83
Bill
yeah

01:26:41.91
FR. Bill W.
It's what the hell are we ordaining here, you know? um But it's true. It's true. i mean, we we have one shot in this life, and it is to become who we were meant to be.

01:26:55.22
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:59.35
FR. Bill W.
and and And if we don't do that, we failed the course.

01:27:03.80
Mike
ah

01:27:03.76
Bill
but

01:27:03.96
FR. Bill W.
We failed the course. So mean i have I've had to own my shadow, you know and I've had to own my inner child, and and all of that stuff. And it's it's wonderful.

01:27:19.07
FR. Bill W.
you know It's wonderful. and And the people that I've worked with, so many of them, they're they're beautiful people. who need to take the risk to be themselves.

01:27:31.05
Mike
Right.

01:27:31.93
FR. Bill W.
You know, and that's what God's asking of us.

01:27:33.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:34.50
Bill
Right.

01:27:36.66
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:37.56
Bill
Yeah. b

01:27:37.92
Mike
All

01:27:38.38
Bill
Being authentic. Yeah. We're, we're not fans of of fake people. I mean, the, we, we are who we are, yeah you know, for, for better, for better, for worse.

01:27:41.78
FR. Bill W.
No. Right. I figured that. Rich or poor, in sickness and in health, if you're choking on that pizza, it doesn't matter.

01:27:49.61
Bill
yeah all that stuff yeah

01:27:49.84
Mike
hey right. yeah Exactly. As that great philosopher once said, i am what I am and that's all what I am.

01:27:58.70
FR. Bill W.
That's all. And eat your spinach, boy.

01:28:01.13
Bill
So, Bill, any anything that anything that she wanted you want to wrap up with, anything we've missed? I mean, i will have um I'll have links to your podcast, to the book, to the website.

01:28:10.23
FR. Bill W.
No, that's that's fine.

01:28:10.53
Bill
I'll links to that in there. But um anything else that we missed or anything, any any closing comments, Mr. Bill?

01:28:17.21
FR. Bill W.
Oh, let see.

01:28:20.55
Bill
He's looking through his notes now.

01:28:20.74
FR. Bill W.
ken againa I wrote this down. This is fun. this is fun some of the Some of your folks will enjoy it.

01:28:24.76
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:28:26.09
FR. Bill W.
This is steps two and three done in two minutes. All right? This is two and three.

01:28:31.80
Bill
Okay.

01:28:32.64
FR. Bill W.
And this is from Clarence Snyder ah out of Cleveland. So in honor of old Clarence, the brewmeister.

01:28:37.24
Bill
Yeah.

01:28:39.61
FR. Bill W.
You know him? His story was in, the I guess, the first two editions of the big book.

01:28:41.35
Mike
Do not.

01:28:41.53
Bill
like to I don't think so, no.

01:28:46.71
Mike
Ah.

01:28:47.64
FR. Bill W.
he He started AA in Cleveland.

01:28:47.61
Bill
Oh, yeah.

01:28:50.71
Mike
Okay.

01:28:51.39
Bill
Okay.

01:28:51.48
FR. Bill W.
He was the one who started it. And he had more people than they had in Akron or New York. i mean, he just hit it out of the ballpark.

01:28:55.53
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:28:56.10
Bill
Right. Yep.

01:28:58.01
FR. Bill W.
So he's he's in the hospital, you know, and Dr. Bob is ah going to take him through steps two and three. They didn't have steps, but the process.

01:29:07.95
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:29:08.79
FR. Bill W.
So think of this. I spent years on steps two and three. Waste of time. Waste of time. You can do them in a minute and a half. So here's here's here's the quote. ah Clarence was still in detox, just emerging from the fog, when Dr. Bob stopped by his bedside to start the experiment.

01:29:29.12
FR. Bill W.
The 12 steps are an experiment. You know, you go to the laboratory of your own life and you begin to work them. Dr. Bob asked, do you believe in God, young fella?

01:29:40.00
FR. Bill W.
He always called me young fella. When he called me Clarence, I knew I was in trouble. does that have to do with it? Everything, he said. Eh, I guess I do. Guess nothing. Either you do or you don't.

01:29:52.38
FR. Bill W.
Yes, I do. That's fine, Dr. Bob said. Now we're getting someplace. End of step two. Is it possible? Is it possible? don't know.

01:30:02.73
FR. Bill W.
Is it possible? On to step three. Doc said, get out of that bed. Clarence was shocked. He asked, for what? Doc replied, you're going to pray. Clarence pleaded with him. Enough was enough.

01:30:14.19
FR. Bill W.
I don't know anything about praying, Clarence said. I don't suppose you do. But you get down there and I'll pray.

01:30:19.05
Mike
Shushush.

01:30:20.91
FR. Bill W.
You can repeat it after me and that'll do for now. Doc then took Clarence by the hand and hauled him off of that nice warm nest, as Clarence put it, and down to the cold, hard concrete floor.

01:30:31.72
FR. Bill W.
Doc uttered some sort of a prayer, pausing every few words so that Clarence had the time to repeat them. Clarence didn't quite remember the words of the prayer exactly, but he did remember it being something like this.

01:30:44.20
FR. Bill W.
Jesus, this is Clarence Snyder. He's a drunk.

01:30:49.24
Bill
Bye.

01:30:49.47
FR. Bill W.
Clarence, this is Jesus. Ask him to come into your life. Ask him to remove your drinking problem and pray that he manages your life because you are unable to manage it yourself.

01:31:03.62
FR. Bill W.
Biggest mistake that I think people make in 12-step world is that word unmanageable. It's an Oxford group word, you know?

01:31:11.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:31:13.05
FR. Bill W.
It came from a young kid, 12 years old, who was getting thrown out of school. and they And they got him on his knees praying. And his prayer was this, God, manage my life.

01:31:24.60
FR. Bill W.
God, I can't manage my life. Manage it for me. Called the victor prayer. I can't manage my life. Manage it for me. And so when Wilson was searching for the the words, you know, to express what step one was trying to convey,

01:31:41.05
FR. Bill W.
didn't it Didn't it naturally go to our lives have become unmanageable? Unmanageable. And that's where the direction comes in.

01:31:50.66
Mike
Right.

01:31:50.75
FR. Bill W.
That we need something that is going to guide my life.

01:31:51.29
Bill
right

01:31:56.50
FR. Bill W.
And I'll tell you this, I'll be quite frank, you know, I am not turning my life and my will over to a group of drunks.

01:32:03.45
Mike
since instance

01:32:03.57
FR. Bill W.
I'm sorry, but I'm saner than that.

01:32:06.01
Bill
yeah

01:32:06.22
FR. Bill W.
You know, I did in the beginning. I did in the beginning.

01:32:10.91
Mike
right

01:32:12.78
FR. Bill W.
Whatever they told me to do, I was going to do it.

01:32:15.12
Bill
Right.

01:32:15.73
FR. Bill W.
But after a while, no, you've got to find your way. And that means going inside and finding what's there. You know, I've seen people who, you know, 40 years sober, and they were on vacation. I've got to get to a meeting. I'm so desperate.

01:32:31.44
FR. Bill W.
Hey, what are you missing, fella?

01:32:33.43
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:34.33
FR. Bill W.
You know, you're missing something.

01:32:36.61
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:32:37.84
FR. Bill W.
Absolutely. Absolutely.

01:32:38.17
Mike
Right. Yeah. yeah

01:32:41.47
FR. Bill W.
A lot of those folks out there.

01:32:41.95
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:43.06
FR. Bill W.
Okay, I'm done.

01:32:44.62
Mike
Well, that was great stuff.

01:32:44.59
Bill
okay

01:32:46.40
FR. Bill W.
It's been fun, fellas.

01:32:46.36
Bill
Yeah, absolutely. Great stuff. So, okay. Now you, you asked for it, father. You're, you're in for a whole load of fucks right now. So Mike, it's your, your turn.

01:32:52.39
Mike
Yes.

01:32:52.71
FR. Bill W.
Okay, very good.

01:32:53.05
Mike
Yes.

01:32:54.10
FR. Bill W.
Now, the one I'll tell you one last thing that I learned from a therapist.

01:32:54.34
Bill
and Okay.

01:32:56.98
FR. Bill W.
He said, ah because I said, I said, I said, fuck you to him.

01:32:57.49
Mike
yes

01:33:01.10
FR. Bill W.
And he said, no, no, no, that's a contract.

01:33:01.21
Mike
He he he he he.

01:33:05.13
FR. Bill W.
Say, fuck off.

01:33:05.68
Mike
He he he he. He he he he.

01:33:07.87
FR. Bill W.
World of difference there. World of difference.

01:33:09.54
Mike
awesome awesome

01:33:13.87
Bill
I like that too. I could actually remember that one.

01:33:16.03
FR. Bill W.
Write that one down.

01:33:16.11
Bill
That's awesome.

01:33:16.81
FR. Bill W.
It'll come in handy.

01:33:18.06
Bill
All right. So yeah.

01:33:18.71
FR. Bill W.
All right, go ahead.

01:33:19.36
Bill
Yeah. Don't, don't run away. Father Mike, Mike's going to, Mike's going to run us out of here though.

01:33:21.18
FR. Bill W.
I'm not going not going anywhere.

01:33:22.77
Bill
Okay.

01:33:23.26
Mike
All right.

01:33:23.31
Bill
Okay.

01:33:23.86
Mike
Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:33:35.58
FR. Bill W.
That's right.

01:33:37.66
Mike
Thank you, Father, for coming on this wonderful episode. This was great. See, kids, I could talk to a priest and not burn up into flames.

01:33:44.22
FR. Bill W.
Yes. We've been waiting for you to do that for years, Mike, you know, and I'm going to hear that fifth step after we hang up.

01:33:45.51
Mike
It's beautiful. Right, right.

01:33:52.07
FR. Bill W.
So, oh, oh did you, did you do it with a priest?

01:33:52.56
Mike
Now, I already did it with another priest, but thank you very much.

01:33:52.67
Bill
ah

01:33:57.32
Mike
I did.

01:33:57.31
Bill
Oh, yeah. Yeah, we both did.

01:33:58.16
Mike
We both did.

01:33:58.22
FR. Bill W.
Oh, isn't that amazing?

01:33:59.12
Bill
We both did. Yeah.

01:33:59.96
Mike
ah ah Direction.

01:34:01.08
Bill
Yeah.

01:34:01.47
Mike
Yeah, yeah. Go see this guy.

01:34:02.34
FR. Bill W.
Direction.

01:34:03.31
Mike
Okay.

01:34:04.16
FR. Bill W.
Very good.

01:34:04.72
Mike
So we did.

01:34:05.52
FR. Bill W.
He wasn't shocked.

01:34:06.93
Mike
No, no, no, not at all.

01:34:07.43
Bill
No.

01:34:07.85
FR. Bill W.
Very good.

01:34:07.98
Bill
Nope. Nope. Nope.

01:34:10.22
Mike
All right, kids. Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:34:23.35
Mike
And now it's time, kids.

01:34:25.05
FR. Bill W.
No, no, fuck off, fuck off, do the fuck off.

01:34:25.38
Mike
it's no it's We're getting there, Father.

01:34:27.45
FR. Bill W.
in

01:34:28.57
Mike
We're getting there.

01:34:28.59
FR. Bill W.
Okay, I'll hang, I'll wait.

01:34:29.58
Mike
It is time. It's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

01:34:35.30
FR. Bill W.
There!

01:34:36.66
Mike
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here. Climb over that gate, dream the impossible dream, and keep fucking off forever.

01:34:49.47
Bill
wait

01:34:49.99
FR. Bill W.
Well.

01:34:50.15
Bill
we've I don't think we've ever had anyone say, no, no, Mike, it's fuck off. Come on, Mike, fuck off. ah oh that was That was the absolute 100% best closing we've ever had.

01:34:58.55
FR. Bill W.
well

01:35:02.01
Bill
best closing we've ever had And you know what? I don't know that I ever thought that I would ever say this, but I'm glad that I that i'm glad that i am. Father, as ah you have a walk-on privilege to this podcast.

01:35:16.81
Bill
Anytime you got nothing else to do on a Friday night, yeah, shoot...

01:35:18.09
FR. Bill W.
Got nothing else to do. Well, start recording at 6 in the morning and I'm your guy.

01:35:21.69
Bill
yeah

01:35:21.92
FR. Bill W.
There

01:35:22.18
Bill
sure shoot us an email and say, hey, yeah you you guys got a guest? I want to come out and talk some shit with you guys again.

01:35:26.54
FR. Bill W.
you go.

01:35:28.33
Bill
but oh no, this was this was wonderful. its Seriously, it really really what it was.

01:35:30.79
FR. Bill W.
good stuff. Good stuff, guys.

01:35:32.11
Bill
So, no, honestly, I mean, yeah, thank thank you very much.

01:35:33.02
Mike
It was.

01:35:35.14
Bill
I mean, it's ah wonderful.

01:35:35.59
Mike
Thank you, Bill. It was great.

01:35:36.93
FR. Bill W.
My pleasure.

01:35:38.27
Bill
So, um Father, stick around.

01:35:38.83
FR. Bill W.
My pleasure.

01:35:40.58
Bill
we're Don't go anywhere yet. We're going to wrap up here with everyone else, and then we'll chit-chat a little bit. But, Mike, I love you, brother.

01:35:45.00
FR. Bill W.
Okay.

01:35:46.27
Mike
I love you too.

01:35:47.40
Bill
And Bill, thank you again for coming on. And I know that I think all of us will talk soon, maybe, right?

01:35:52.44
Mike
Bye.

01:35:53.47
FR. Bill W.
All right.

01:35:53.49
Bill
right. Bye.

01:35:55.36
Mike
by

01:35:55.42
FR. Bill W.
Bye-bye. Keep coming back.