SoberNotMature - Episode 173 (Enthusiasms - That Which Brings Us Joy)

00:00:01.94
Bill
Alright everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. Jesus Christ, I just bit my fucking lip as I'm doing the opening.

00:00:11.47
Mike
full Wow. Uh-huh.

00:00:12.81
Bill
Well, okay, so I wasn't even going to bring it up tonight because nobody fucking cares, but it's third it's Thursday night, it's a quick night, you know, trying to eat real quick. And I'm like kind of making fun of myself because I ate so goddamn quick.

00:00:20.91
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:23.32
Bill
I decided to eat part of my lip. Not bad. um

00:00:25.99
Mike
All right.

00:00:26.51
Bill
But yes, doing this little fucking opening, my fucking lip got in the way. I'm like, Jesus Christ, I'll bit my lip. So anyhow, they ended up bringing it up inadvertently. I didn't mean to. So, okay.

00:00:35.40
Mike
Uh-huh. All right.

00:00:36.32
Bill
But um this was from ah from a couple of weeks ago that we were talking about it. And this quote came up in my memory. So we neither one of us could figure out exactly how this thing went. So,

00:00:47.29
Bill
Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip.

00:00:53.99
Mike
Yes, Will Rogers.

00:00:54.86
Bill
Yes, that is.

00:00:55.34
Mike
It came up in the readings this week.

00:00:57.67
Bill
Was it in the readings?

00:00:58.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:00:59.51
Bill
Oh, so you know what? I i probably even missed it. I must have missed it even in the readings because I yeah i i ah copied it and posted it on on my Facebook page years ago.

00:01:10.22
Mike
All right.

00:01:10.45
Bill
um So that's maybe i did see it in the reading, too. I don't know.

00:01:13.21
Mike
Yeah, well, yeah.

00:01:13.49
Bill
It's.

00:01:14.34
Mike
Yeah, because I went, oh, hey, there it is.

00:01:19.75
Bill
Yeah, it was just funny. i just i I copied it right away. Maybe that was. I was thinking it came up as a memory, but fuck, I can't even remember where I where i reached it from.

00:01:27.09
Mike
Maybe it was an actual memory from a couple of days ago.

00:01:29.17
Bill
Yeah, it's...

00:01:30.51
Mike
Right.

00:01:33.93
Bill
yes

00:01:34.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:34.58
Bill
You know what? The the the thing, but I'll take it either way. And there's, there's, there's more than, more than one, more than two, probably more than a hundred reasons why there's two of us on this podcast. ah But that's one of them.

00:01:46.74
Bill
Cause I can't read, I can't see the remember shit. Like, Hey, look what this happened. isn't a fucking reading. day oh

00:01:51.89
Mike
right yeah

00:01:53.14
Bill
Oh, okay. Yeah, that's that's what I meant. Okay, let me let me rewind. Good goddamn thing we didn't start yet. Okay, so this was in one of the readings this week.

00:01:58.34
Mike
Right. you

00:02:02.92
Bill
And since we talked about it, it's by Will Rogers.

00:02:04.26
Mike
Yes, exactly. Yes. it Yes, I misquoted it as Mark Twain. It was Will Rogers. Yes, a few days ago. i Yeah, because I, whatever. Yeah, I read it in the morning and I went, oh, hey, look at that.

00:02:19.01
Bill
And you actually misquoted as Mark Twain. I don't even remember that.

00:02:21.41
Mike
I did. Yeah. so Wow.

00:02:24.10
Bill
Jesus Christ.

00:02:24.25
Mike
Yeah. Right. If I've got the good memory here, we're both in trouble.

00:02:29.03
Bill
Well, I mean, it is something that you said. I do i do remember some things. it just ah It's see the the weirdest part, and um these things, and we talked about it a number of times with these readings, is that I know they stick because I remember stuff and things you know things come out of my mouth and i don't know where they came from type of thing, or they're in my head and don't know where they came from, but

00:02:40.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:02:43.08
Mike
Right.

00:02:46.82
Mike
hmm.

00:02:50.29
Bill
The problem is it is it's it's recycling that information. Like when I was talking about um the idea of trying to do a book review, for instance, when I read to be Moore's book, I liked it, not read, listen to it.

00:02:59.55
Mike
Right? Yeah.

00:03:00.83
Bill
um There's not a goddamn way in the world I could I could go back and I can't do a I can't do a book review.

00:03:04.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:08.11
Bill
I mean.

00:03:09.22
Mike
We're going to need you to do a book report. Mm-hmm.

00:03:12.54
Bill
Well, yeah if I make notes, like when i was in when I was in school and stuff like that, I get really good at, I'm good at, um so when I was training, and i and i'm not this is just honest to God, I was really good at training because I was i i could do headlines and outlines and and talk through slides and stuff like that.

00:03:16.03
Mike
Right.

00:03:31.34
Bill
All I had to do was see the slide and I knew what I needed to talk to. I didn't need everything written down. I didn't need need to memorize.

00:03:36.27
Mike
Right.

00:03:36.70
Bill
It was there. And but anytime I did a presentation, i would do um almost like, like if you look in the front of the book, the table of contents, that's the way I would do my, my speaking engagements, whatever I did, because I knew at the top, once I got the, once somebody fed me the line or I read the line, I'm fine.

00:03:48.74
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:03:54.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:03:56.49
Bill
But if I have to sit down, I couldn't recite something. I need a visual. I need some sort of visual, whether it's written or an actual picture. my My head's all fucked up. You know, I mean, I yeah, I mean, I know that's not a surprise, but but it's it's just I learn and I retain and I can regurgitate information in just

00:04:06.09
Mike
yeah Really?

00:04:16.25
Bill
in a weird way. You know, I'm not, uh, I was never good at tests. I could cram, but then all the information was gone sooner or later would come back and I could build on it.

00:04:24.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:24.59
Bill
Um, but yeah, it was this, I never had that long-term that just, I could re recite all this shit. It's fucking weird. It's, it was debilitating in some cases, you know, trying to take a test in school, but, um, you know, I got through it and I didn't do terrible, you know, but yeah,

00:04:38.80
Mike
Right?

00:04:39.88
Bill
Now I got to try to get through a podcast and I know where I read shit there, where I remember shit from or don't remember stuff from.

00:04:40.23
Mike
yeah

00:04:42.65
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:04:46.14
Bill
So yeah, exactly.

00:04:46.70
Mike
Yes. Yeah. Real life.

00:04:49.32
Bill
Okay. So one more thing we, before we actually get to a reading, um, our buddy, Tim from, uh, from Maine, the one that, uh, obviously has been our, been our newest listener over the last few months.

00:04:53.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:04:56.89
Mike
Yes.

00:04:59.58
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:05:00.55
Bill
Um, his 40th anniversary was on June 10th.

00:05:04.59
Mike
Wow.

00:05:04.68
Bill
Okay.

00:05:04.80
Mike
Wow.

00:05:04.98
Bill
Okay. Yeah. So congratulations to our friend, Tim, two days ago.

00:05:08.57
Mike
Yes.

00:05:09.45
Bill
um If you're listening to this this weekend, obviously it's going to be three, four days ago, but either way, um June 10th, Tim from Maine got, got 40 years, 40 years sober.

00:05:18.03
Mike
Damn.

00:05:18.55
Bill
So I know.

00:05:19.86
Mike
That is impressive.

00:05:20.07
Bill
Yeah. Yep. He sent the email.

00:05:21.76
Mike
I wonder how he did it.

00:05:22.37
Bill
Yeah.

00:05:23.75
Mike
he

00:05:25.48
Bill
Probably one day at a time, but he had sent a, yeah he sent a picture of his coin and stuff too.

00:05:26.79
Mike
Ah.

00:05:30.52
Bill
You know, it did.

00:05:30.56
Mike
Oh, cool.

00:05:31.44
Bill
It's like every, I think he said every five years um he buys himself a coin.

00:05:34.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:35.86
Bill
And I told him, I'm like, yeah, we do the, told him what our story is. Obviously, you know, mom and Kathy, but now obviously Kathy buys us the coins, but um yeah.

00:05:39.15
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:05:43.46
Bill
So he treats himself to a specialty coin, I guess every, every five years. So you got figure he's got, you know, he's got eight of them now.

00:05:50.28
Mike
Right.

00:05:51.12
Bill
See, I can do math. I can do that.

00:05:52.43
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:52.93
Bill
Yeah. I can do something sometimes. So, but, dumb but yeah, so I wanted to I wanted to make sure I got that out before, before I forgot about it.

00:05:59.97
Mike
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.

00:06:01.80
Bill
So yeah, congratulations to Tim and you know, obviously one of our new ish listeners and he's the one, one of the ones that came over from listening to a sober speak when Gary was talking to the gentleman on sober speak.

00:06:15.26
Bill
So, so yeah.

00:06:15.70
Mike
Cool.

00:06:16.35
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:06:17.04
Mike
Nice.

00:06:17.83
Bill
Yeah, but I got some I got some other things. I got one of the I got a couple of articles. so I got to think about that, too. I went to the doctor this week. I want to tell you about that.

00:06:25.88
Mike
All right.

00:06:26.35
Bill
um All typical stuff. Nothing really out of the ordinary. But I don't know. I mean, I yeah think I got a couple of new things, but I get a whole list of shit that we can talk about. And Founders Day wrap up.

00:06:35.11
Mike
yeah all right

00:06:36.81
Bill
We can do that, too.

00:06:37.27
Mike
We could do that as well.

00:06:39.38
Bill
Hang on. What founders? Is it apostrophe S, right?

00:06:44.09
Mike
Yeah, it's possessive.

00:06:45.74
Bill
I just fuck it around.

00:06:46.86
Mike
It's their day.

00:06:48.35
Bill
It is their day. The founders. Okay. So ah back to business. It's ah almost seven minutes into the podcast. What do you say we we do a reading that I either won't remember or I'll forget shortly?

00:06:58.65
Mike
Right. Well, yes, or both.

00:07:01.49
Bill
Yeah. Or both.

00:07:01.62
Mike
Why is it going to be either or?

00:07:04.90
Bill
Treat yourself.

00:07:05.93
Mike
right Right. All right. Um, well, okay. Let me, uh, let me preface this a little bit. Um, my, uh, home group on Sunday, um, the lead was pretty good. He was ah i a, don't younger ish guy, I don't know, 30, somewhere around there. Yes, that is younger to me.

00:07:22.64
Mike
And, um,

00:07:23.11
Bill
Right.

00:07:24.28
Mike
Right. And Lee was good. yeah He had a couple of years and, you know, it was all, but he kept making this point over and over and he didn't, I don't think he realized it. And I kind of pointed it out to him in my comment afterwards.

00:07:37.49
Mike
And it was about honesty. And um so I found, I actually looked up honesty in the books and and was, I, shit, I probably read probably eight or nine readings, and none of them quite hit exactly home, but this was the closest I could get to my point. So we'll read it, and then we'll discuss it.

00:07:58.65
Bill
All right.

00:07:58.88
Mike
All right. So um this is ah actually from Keep It Simple. It is January 13th, and here we go. the junkie can never start to cure himself until he recognizes his true condition, Malcolm X.

00:08:15.39
Mike
Now we know what the problem is. Now we can do something about it. The truth of our problem is we can't handle alcohol or other drugs. They handle us.

00:08:26.10
Mike
They control us. The steps ask us to face the truth, and the truth sets us free. What a wonderful gift. We feared the truth, but now it is our friend.

00:08:38.22
Mike
It's a relief. Facing the truth means we're honest, and honesty is our best friend in recovery. It's like a cozy fire on a winter's night. Try not to laugh.

00:08:50.40
Mike
Honesty is how we get well. It's also how we will... It's also how... Goddamn, it is also what will keep us well. Do I truly believe that I can't use alcohol or other drugs?

00:09:04.53
Mike
Prayer for the day. Higher power, help me see my illness for what it is. It's my enemy. Help me see that honesty is my best friend. Action for the day. Today I'll take 15 minutes to think about what my true condition was when I was drinking and drugging, and I'll think about what my true condition is now

00:09:27.32
Bill
All right. So um I guess let's start with that. Your true condition while you were drinking and your true condition now. I'm thinking this is going to be relatively easy answers, but Mike, what do you think?

00:09:38.90
Mike
Right. Well, ah let's see. um i was i couldn't think straight. I was completely selfish and self-centered. i' And I was a slave.

00:09:53.79
Mike
that simple enough? Yeah. Yeah.

00:09:56.20
Bill
Yeah, that that about covers it.

00:09:58.16
Mike
yeah

00:09:58.52
Bill
And then compared compared to now, just take the reverse of all those things you just said, right?

00:10:02.49
Mike
Yeah, yeah, pretty much, you know. um Yeah, um I'm free and i'm um I can think relatively clearly and I don't even remember what the third one was now, so apparently not that clearly. I said relatively.

00:10:17.96
Mike
ah qualified it. Honest, man.

00:10:21.47
Bill
Right. And, you know, the the thing that you said slave, you were a slave and...

00:10:24.60
Mike
Well, no, that was the that was the first one. I went backwards. i was I'm free now. I don't remember what the goddamn third one was.

00:10:28.35
Bill
Oh, okay.

00:10:30.15
Mike
And it was in the middle. And I don't know.

00:10:32.90
Bill
sure You want me to pause this, download the whole thing, go back, listen to it?

00:10:32.91
Mike
Maybe it was Malcolm. you Yes. Right.

00:10:37.18
Bill
Well, you and I got nothing better to do on a Thursday night than take an extra half hour to figure out what word you said in there.

00:10:37.28
Mike
Let's do that.

00:10:41.45
Mike
oh yeah

00:10:44.95
Bill
but And people are laughing at us now because i obviously everyone everyone heard it so

00:10:45.34
Mike
Yes. They are. Because everybody else remembers because it was two fucking seconds ago.

00:10:50.09
Bill
yeah

00:10:52.91
Bill
But, you know, you just proved you kind of proved my point to what I was just talking about. You know, when when we were opening up there that that's that's my life. You just experienced my life there in that in that little sentence.

00:11:01.97
Mike
Wow.

00:11:02.77
Bill
But so congratulations. Welcome.

00:11:04.61
Mike
Thanks. Yes.

00:11:06.10
Bill
I saved a seat for you.

00:11:08.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:09.36
Bill
But I mean, yeah, when you were saying all those things, the first word that I thought of, you know, for the now part of it is freedom, you know, and that's so we talk about that all the time.

00:11:14.29
Mike
Yep.

00:11:15.94
Bill
And you mentioned that, um you know, you said that when I was in Wisconsin and, you know, at one time, enjoy the freedom. And that's one of the one of the coolest things that you said a lot of cool things to me, but that was one of them.

00:11:21.24
Mike
ye

00:11:27.79
Bill
You know, because it was so simple, you know, and that's what that's what I need. I need these simple little um nuggets of information and just statements that, you know, that the things that I always try to complicate always um just down to the point where, hey, you know all this stuff and you're looking around liquor stores and I can remember all the well enjoy the freedom.

00:11:34.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:40.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:46.56
Bill
Oh, yeah.

00:11:46.93
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

00:11:49.39
Bill
and That makes it easy. um And yeah, being, you know, I thought of the other thing when you were, you know, kind of going through that and even afterwards, but um I was frantic all the time, you know, about, about everything, you know, um ah just, just down to the simple, you know, necessity of, do I have enough?

00:12:00.18
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:12:07.85
Bill
Where can I go? What am I going to do All those sorts of things. And I never ran out.

00:12:10.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:11.33
Bill
I've been clear about that.

00:12:12.69
Mike
Right.

00:12:12.86
Bill
um But if I'm going someplace or somebody is going to be around, um how can I how can I make sure that I can still drink um and, you know, hide it?

00:12:20.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:23.97
Bill
I just did big air quotes, um you know, and not make it not make it so evident, you know, that I'm walking into the kitchen or into the bathroom or wherever the fuck I'm walking or downstairs.

00:12:24.61
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:12:32.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:32.90
Bill
And.

00:12:33.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:33.67
Bill
Um, you know, in that, just being frantic about everything and, um, what's going to happen. Am I going to lose my job? Do I have enough money?

00:12:40.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:40.76
Bill
ah well, no, I don't, you know, cause I just spent it all on fucking booze, you know?

00:12:43.95
Mike
Right.

00:12:44.86
Bill
Um, God, all, all of that stuff. And yeah, the condition prior was just, I mean, what would be, what's a one, one word we could put on our condition is just sad, pathetic,

00:12:54.76
Mike
Yeah, that's a good one. Right? Yeah. You know, ill. You know, sick.

00:13:00.04
Bill
ill,

00:13:00.68
Mike
Yes. um Fucking mess, man.

00:13:05.24
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's, ah boy, I tell you, and it's, you know, thinking back, I am, there's there's, once again, there's a lot of reasons that I, that I enjoy doing, you know, this, this podcast.

00:13:16.03
Mike
Right.

00:13:16.94
Bill
And, you know, look going back and in talking about these things and bringing all of these ah things back to the surface in a, in a positive way.

00:13:28.19
Mike
True.

00:13:28.43
Bill
you know, cause there, there hasn't been, there's never been an episode where we brought something up and, you know, depressed over it

00:13:36.20
Mike
right

00:13:37.77
Bill
I just, I couldn't, I was trying to think if we ever got like sad, I mean, our, our, our mom died and we, I mean, both of us choked up a little bit between a couple of episodes, but, um, I mean, that was because, you know, we cared about somebody who's no longer here, but you know, what we're talking about, uh, I, did I tell you, I listened, where can I, where's I go?

00:13:44.63
Mike
sure

00:13:48.80
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:13:53.51
Bill
and i remember where I was driving some fucking place. Um,

00:13:55.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:56.83
Bill
I went back and I listened to not all of it, but probably about the first, I don't know, probably 30 minutes or so, maybe 40 minutes of that, our episode, the first 30 days.

00:14:07.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:07.46
Bill
um Again, the audio, it's so painful.

00:14:07.55
Mike
Mm-hmm. yeah

00:14:10.17
Bill
um But it is, it's, you know, and it's, this is not like a pat ourselves on the back type of thing, but um it was good content. You know, I mean, that was like our fourth episode.

00:14:19.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:19.71
Bill
And it was just some good information, some good stuff that we were just getting out there.

00:14:19.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:24.43
Bill
And I really enjoy that we get to do that and and talk about these things. And it's always, ah it's not this negative shit, you know? um I don't know. It just, it's, I appreciate being able to, it's therapeutic, you know, maybe.

00:14:38.95
Bill
um I don't look at it that way necessarily, but I think it is, right?

00:14:42.92
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Opening up, sharing, doing, you know, being, yeah, being open about whatever.

00:14:50.23
Bill
Right.

00:14:51.57
Mike
Yeah. Right. So, all right. So, um, yeah. So the honesty thing, right? Like I said, I was looking up honesty cause I wanted, it was kind of top of mind.

00:14:56.43
Bill
Right.

00:15:01.39
Mike
Um, clearly, you know, it's one of the biggies. I mean, it's a, it's a fucking absolute, right?

00:15:07.66
Bill
Right.

00:15:08.17
Mike
Um, And I mean, we come in especially early on, and we, um you know, we hear this honesty thing, right? Well, so, you know, being simple and not understanding what the fuck they're talking about completely, um you know, we can only...

00:15:26.86
Mike
absorb and and relate it however we can and generally it's you know we've been lying for so long about everything that we we hear the word honesty and we go oh so i've got to stop lying which of course we do but um but i don't think it's talked about enough and like i said in this lead he he kept

00:15:34.36
Bill
Right.

00:15:49.04
Mike
you know, he's telling his story and he kept basically talking about how he was deceiving himself, you know, on on all different kinds of situations and whatever. and And, you know, I'm sitting there, I'm listening to his lead and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's, it's, it's a lead.

00:16:04.26
Mike
And, ah and it just kept hitting me that how fucking dishonest we are. And yes, of course we are. Cause we lie to everybody all the time, but we're lying to ourselves and we don't,

00:16:16.32
Mike
even I mean, we believe these lies that we tell ourselves. I think that's one of the huge problems that we had.

00:16:20.26
Bill
Right.

00:16:24.33
Mike
Yes, you know, heroin's a fucking problem and vodka's a fucking problem and crack is a fucking problem. But, I mean, you know, again, It's said all the time, you know, you take that stuff away and hey, guess what? There's still a whole shitload of problems left.

00:16:40.90
Bill
right

00:16:40.92
Mike
And I think one of the big ones is that we we lie to ourselves and we believe it. You know, that's a huge fucking problem. It was for me. don't know about you.

00:16:51.82
Mike
Right.

00:16:53.26
Bill
Right. Oh, no, i'm I'm right there with you. I agree.

00:16:55.65
Mike
Right.

00:16:55.70
Bill
I agree.

00:16:56.95
Mike
So, um yeah, so, you know, that's, that's, and again, it's yeah it come back to first step shit, you know, powerless. And, you know, we believe we have control over the substances. We believe what we're handling it.

00:17:10.80
Mike
and And clearly we're not. And we hadn't been for a long fucking time, but we truly believe that we are. that's that's some fucked up shit, man. So, you know, when if you're newer or you're not so new or whatever, and you hear, you see honesty. And I i remember, you know, early on, um you know, they they people, you know, sponsors and people around us were like, you know, yeah yeah yes, you got to work the steps and whatever. But, you know, the absolutes are important and start working on honesty. I remember clearly that was one of the first suggestions given to me.

00:17:46.98
Mike
You know, start being honest. And again, like I said, you know, that first 30 days coming back to it, it was like, okay, stop lying to other people. Well, fuck, man, stop lying to yourself.

00:17:58.08
Mike
Because I still i still was, and i still and I'm still very capable of it, you know?

00:17:58.31
Bill
Right.

00:18:03.67
Mike
i'll I think... that's That's a huge thing. well you know You hear honesty all the time, and it's like, i get down to it, man. Yeah, don' don't tell people bullshit lies because that's just dumb, and then you got to remember them, clearly we're not good at that.

00:18:22.23
Mike
Yeah. You know, and that's a pain in the ass. And it's also it's a lot easier to just tell the truth to other people. But um stop fucking lying to yourself and stop believing the bullshit that you believe for so long.

00:18:37.74
Mike
You have no control. Your life is fucked up. You know, start believing that. That's yeah. So um I don't know. Yeah. Like I said, I just wanted to bring up the topic of honesty and and and bring up the fact that it's yes, of course, it's stop lying to other people, but stop fucking lying yourself, man.

00:19:00.12
Bill
Right. And i'm I'm glad you did. i'm but I'm glad, you know, obviously not only that you that you heard the lead, but, you know, brought that topic up because, you know, we, I guess in thinking about it with all that, all those things you were you were going through, um that's why I said, I mean, I'm right there with you.

00:19:13.86
Bill
I agreed with every every every word, every sentence, every every idea that you had. But um I mean, really, when when we talk about honesty, we don't, even on here, when we talk about honesty, we don't really talk like you just did.

00:19:23.90
Mike
whom Yeah.

00:19:25.77
Bill
You know, we don't get into that, that deep part of it. And it it is, it's kind of ah I don't want to say, well, it is, it's a given. Yeah. Don't, don't lie to your, you know, friends, your family, don't lie to your boss.

00:19:34.52
Mike
Right.

00:19:35.74
Bill
um You know, little white lies, all these little things, they, they hurt, you know.

00:19:38.43
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:19:39.78
Bill
um That's the obvious part, but yeah, stop lying to yourself. I mean, whether it's okay.

00:19:44.08
Mike
Stop believing the fucking lies.

00:19:44.38
Bill
Yeah. My, Well, and that's the other thing that you just said, and and I can't think of any examples, but I know that especially early on, you know, as you start, you know, kind of kind of working through and making amends and and whatever the case is, whatever the situation is and start to realize what exactly happened there, you know.

00:19:51.86
Mike
hmm.

00:19:56.53
Mike
who

00:20:02.53
Bill
um was i mean what part of that was true and i can in a lot of the you know whether it's an amends keeping it kind of vague rather than going into details they're like i don't know what what part of this was actually true what was i lying about and that was the thing of it is believing my own my own lies you know believing that i mean the simple things i suppose like i'm okay i'm not hurting anyone all those sort of things but but all these this web of deceit yeah

00:20:02.66
Mike
Right.

00:20:14.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:17.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:22.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:28.13
Bill
that we were just weaving all the time.

00:20:28.44
Mike
Yep.

00:20:30.86
Bill
um It's crazy. But, you know, that reminded me too, you know, forgiving ourselves, because that was a tough one for me, a tough concept for it.

00:20:35.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:37.87
Bill
But yeah, being honest with myself, and even to this day, and that's the other thing I thought about when you're talking about it, is that it was really hard for me to be honest about my emotions and how I feel.

00:20:50.99
Bill
um, in a general sense, you know, with, with people, you know, just any, ah any people, um, but also in, you know, in, in recovery rooms and stuff like that, like, you know, that's telling somebody I truly don't know, or I don't understand, or I'm afraid, um, you know, or I'm fearful of this or, you know, yeah, it's a, Oh, how you doing?

00:20:55.43
Mike
Right.

00:21:02.71
Mike
Right.

00:21:09.70
Bill
I'm doing fucking wonderful. You don't know, no I'm not, you know, i got some shit going on and I don't know why i can't,

00:21:11.63
Mike
Right.

00:21:15.95
Bill
Even remember the number of, there was things that hit me, you know, three years, five years. I know I remember I was in Madison one time, a couple of times I called you.

00:21:20.49
Mike
Mm

00:21:23.55
Bill
I'm like, I don't know why this is fucking me up, but it is, you know, and you know, you and I have talked about these things, you know, um and that's something that I never, ever experienced.

00:21:26.63
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

00:21:30.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:21:35.10
Bill
you know, talked about. So same thing, like you said, you know, being new or you if you're not new, stop lying yourself.

00:21:40.22
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:21:40.58
Bill
But the other thing, I guess, to expand on that just a tad is that make sure that you have somebody that you can talk to about this shit within you, you know?

00:21:46.81
Mike
Right.

00:21:49.16
Bill
And I mean, granted, if people want to go to therapy, feel free, go to fucking therapy.

00:21:52.07
Mike
whom

00:21:52.28
Bill
You know, i I mean, whatever works for people, I'm sure I could benefit from it. I just don't, everything's okay right now.

00:21:56.83
Mike
Right.

00:21:59.09
Mike
Yeah.

00:21:59.75
Bill
i'm sitting on and I'm sitting in a boat in the middle of a nice pond, and it's sunny, and the water's all glassy.

00:22:05.68
Mike
Yep.

00:22:05.76
Bill
I don't need to make fucking waves at the moment. If something gets fucked up, first person I'm going to go to probably is you.

00:22:12.58
Mike
Right.

00:22:13.00
Bill
you know I might talk to Kathy about something, and I think that hopefully, if I'm really fucked up about something, you know maybe maybe somebody's going to say, Jesus, dude, you've got to go fucking talk to somebody.

00:22:24.25
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:22:24.51
Bill
Yeah. You know, but that's the point I got. I got to have somebody to go to first, which is that was my point.

00:22:29.23
Mike
yeah

00:22:30.80
Bill
No.

00:22:30.98
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. Again, you know, we talked plenty about it last week. The we of the program. None of this shit we can do by ourselves.

00:22:40.12
Bill
Right.

00:22:40.13
Mike
You know, we do need we need other people. We just we just do don't always particularly like it. But but it's a fact that, again, one of those lies that we tell ourselves that we truly believe i can handle it.

00:22:46.24
Bill
yeah

00:22:53.73
Mike
Well, fuck, I can't clearly.

00:22:55.71
Bill
Right.

00:22:56.49
Mike
Yeah. My life is fucking unmanageable. Hey, guess what? Still is

00:23:01.23
Bill
Well, and it's ah it goes back to the freedom part of it. It is very freeing to not have to be um all you. you know It doesn't have to be all us.

00:23:11.56
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:23:13.43
Bill
It's wonderful to be able to to lean on somebody else and ask for help. And whether it's you know just that you can't physically do something, you know I know my limitations.

00:23:18.06
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:20.96
Mike
Right.

00:23:22.98
Bill
you know whether it's doesn't matter what I'm doing.

00:23:23.24
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:24.30
Bill
I don't need it even to even give examples. Whatever I'm doing, I know my limitations.

00:23:27.71
Mike
Right.

00:23:28.06
Bill
If I need some help on the physical side of things, I'm going to ask somebody going to tell, listen, I can't do this shit anymore.

00:23:32.41
Mike
Mm hmm. Right. Right. Yeah.

00:23:34.72
Bill
you know can you help Can you help me do this? Because i mean i can i can assist, but you know I can't

00:23:36.41
Mike
Right.

00:23:39.55
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:40.23
Bill
i can't do this anymore you know

00:23:41.39
Mike
Here's 20 bucks. Carry this fucking thing because I can't anymore.

00:23:44.87
Bill
Yeah, and it was funny with, I guess I just thought about what Derek moved and stuff like that. I mean, I carried some i carried some heavy shit that time, and I had this, I think that was at the time I had, i remember if my, sh well, who knows.

00:23:49.32
Mike
Hmm.

00:23:56.06
Bill
my My shoulder seems to always be fucked up at at certain times, and I think it was at that time.

00:23:58.48
Mike
Mm hmm. Sure.

00:24:00.90
Bill
um And it was just more fucked up after I got done. But um if I truly wouldn't have been able to do it, if anything would have felt weird when I picked it up, I would have like, fuck this, man, I can't ah can't do this, you know, just can't, you know.

00:24:03.50
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:24:10.30
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, again, but that's that's part of being honest with yourself, knowing your limitations.

00:24:17.33
Bill
Right?

00:24:17.33
Mike
Yeah, which sucks, you know, but again, then you're not going to, you know, it's a great example.

00:24:19.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:24:23.42
Mike
Then you're not going to fucking hurt yourself by lying to yourself and believing the lie. I can do this. No, you fucking can't.

00:24:32.44
Bill
Yeah, either you're going hurt yourself one way or the other. Either you're going to hurt yourself mentally or you're going to hurt yourself physically.

00:24:34.94
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:37.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:38.96
Bill
And neither one is. I mean, yeah, the physical stuff, I mean, that's that's bad enough. but And emotionally, I don't want to in turmoil.

00:24:42.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:44.81
Bill
mean, and emotionally i don't want to be and

00:24:46.79
Mike
Right.

00:24:46.84
Bill
and fucking turmoil i mean that's

00:24:47.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:48.91
Bill
That could be worse. I mean, the the physical pain, you know, take some ibuprofen and, know, take it easy for a minute.

00:24:50.52
Mike
Sure.

00:24:54.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:55.07
Bill
But, um, yeah, the, the fucking mental, that's another thing too, back to, you know, the prior to the, the, meant just the mental anguish of everything.

00:25:02.97
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:03.21
Bill
Um, life was just heavy, you know, and life wasn't heavy.

00:25:05.35
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:06.88
Bill
I mean, everything I was, i was doing, I made my life really heavy. Yeah.

00:25:11.89
Mike
Yeah, right. because Right, because you're fucking carrying all this bullshit by yourself.

00:25:18.33
Bill
Yeah, you know, stacking more on there going, hey, sid give me some more bullshit.

00:25:20.44
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:25:22.93
Bill
I got my own bullshit I'm building.

00:25:23.29
Mike
Yes.

00:25:24.41
Bill
Yeah, let's bring some bullshit over here too.

00:25:25.97
Mike
I'm manufacturing bullshit to pile on myself.

00:25:28.58
Bill
Right. I don't have enough bullshit. Let's take some of that bullshit over there too.

00:25:32.89
Mike
um

00:25:35.79
Bill
Yeah, but I seriously, i'm I'm glad I'm glad you brought that up because, I mean, just the simplest things in the reading, you know, I mean, talking about, you know, truth is our friend. Honesty is our best friend.

00:25:43.60
Mike
Yes.

00:25:45.20
Bill
um

00:25:45.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:46.52
Bill
See the see the illness for what it is. I think that's my scribble on there.

00:25:49.54
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:25:51.04
Bill
um They oh, yeah. When was talking about alcohol and drugs right in the beginning, that they handle us.

00:25:56.87
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:57.15
Bill
ah There was more to that, too. But that was the first thing I wrote down. And God, if that isn't the fucking truth.

00:26:02.15
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:02.60
Bill
Yeah. I can handle it. No, you can't. You're being handled.

00:26:06.28
Mike
You're being handled. yes

00:26:09.15
Bill
this No, I'm not. I'm fine.

00:26:11.52
Mike
I'm fine.

00:26:11.62
Bill
yeah

00:26:11.92
Mike
i am in complete control here.

00:26:14.02
Bill
Right. Yeah. I'm in good shape. I got it. I'm not that bad at standing in the mirror at 36 years old.

00:26:19.20
Mike
and

00:26:20.29
Bill
yeah yeah still I figured I'd give it another and five years to take a whirl on that just to make sure I was that bad.

00:26:25.93
Mike
see

00:26:27.08
Bill
If I wasn't that bad, I made sure I got myself that bad and I didn't disappoint the badness.

00:26:27.19
Mike
this exactly

00:26:34.45
Bill
That's for this or goddamn sure. But Jesus Christ, man, it's just, again, you know, I shake my head a little bit, but I mean, I'm not, I'm not embarrassed about any of these things. um

00:26:44.62
Mike
Mm-mm.

00:26:45.62
Bill
i'm I'm happy that, ah like I said before, I mean, um I'm so glad that we talk about these things and we can look at them with some, with, ah you know, some brightness because, you know, well, two things.

00:26:54.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:55.82
Bill
I mean, it's um obviously learning from our past, you know, i don't, we can't regret it anyhow. It says so in that book we have to read.

00:27:00.60
Mike
Mm-hmm. read that somewhere. Yes.

00:27:03.65
Bill
But on top of that, too, um you know, but all this stuff, you said it, you know, all this stuff has worth, you know, all of these all of these goddamn things that we did, all these fucking issues and things that we just blew up in our lives.

00:27:14.52
Mike
Yep.

00:27:17.48
Bill
They they have real worth, you know, these days.

00:27:19.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:27:20.17
Bill
And man, that's just I tell you what, and as we're talking about this, I'm kind of kicked back in my chair a little bit. I'm feeling feeling very just overall relaxed.

00:27:29.19
Mike
Yep.

00:27:29.29
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:29.61
Mike
Yep. Yep.

00:27:30.54
Bill
Because I'm thinking about how fucked up I was, you know, 16, well, 16 years ago at this time, 15 years ago at this time, you know, um Jesus Christ.

00:27:32.69
Mike
help yeah ah oh

00:27:39.31
Bill
i mean, it's just a fucking mess.

00:27:40.56
Mike
Again, took away the substance and this is worth, yeah, right. Month and whatever, some days into it and we're still all fucked up.

00:27:48.58
Bill
Yeah, I mean, seriously, yeah I mean, at this time on on June 12th of 2010, I wasn't skating through life yet.

00:27:53.91
Mike
z

00:27:56.10
Bill
I wasn't, I certainly wasn't living my best life, as the kids say.

00:28:00.63
Mike
Didn't have that peace and serenity yet.

00:28:02.70
Bill
oh I don't even, I don't even know.

00:28:03.43
Mike
e

00:28:04.10
Bill
I think I knew how to spell either one of those things yet.

00:28:05.90
Mike
Right.

00:28:07.83
Bill
Probably didn't even know how to speak them. he's a Yeah. ah But no, really, I mean, that was ah that was that was a good, it was a good reading, and but more so I'm glad that you found a reading that, or, you know, obviously had that, you know, had that lead to pull from to, you know, to pull out the reading.

00:28:23.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:25.46
Bill
So I think the, yeah, the the recap of the lead, I'm not saying it was better than the reading, but I think hand in hand, I'm i'm glad you talked about the, yeah, honesty from that different side of it.

00:28:26.07
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:32.08
Mike
Right.

00:28:34.14
Bill
So I like that.

00:28:34.38
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Cool.

00:28:37.75
Bill
So awesome. So what else? Anything on the, anything on the reading? Anything more on lead or?

00:28:42.35
Mike
that I mean, no, like I said, the lead, the lead was fine. it was just, he kept like making the point over and over again.

00:28:47.99
Bill
Right.

00:28:48.53
Mike
and He was lying to himself and he doesn't really like go into it. I was just catching it going, Oh fuck. Look, ah look how fucked up we were.

00:28:55.38
Bill
Right.

00:28:56.48
Mike
Look how fucked up I was right. Believing the lies that I told myself and yeah. And and how, how shitty it was. And he was just relating his experience with that. And and like I said, he had,

00:29:08.45
Mike
maybe, i don't even think had two years, but a year and a half or so.

00:29:10.76
Bill
right

00:29:11.79
Mike
And and yeah, so he wasn't, he wasn't catching it, and but I was catching it because he kept giving different examples of just that very thing, lying to himself and believing it.

00:29:23.15
Mike
And yeah, so, you know, I commented on it. Yeah. I think he caught it when I pointed it out to him. So. Right.

00:29:30.39
Bill
Right. No. And that's, ah i mean, but that, that's what we, I mean, think about that. Those first, you know, I mean, and think both of us led quite a bit in those first couple of years.

00:29:35.01
Mike
Right.

00:29:38.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:39.75
Bill
um I mean, thankfully had, you know, people ask us and had that opportunity to, to get up there.

00:29:42.27
Mike
Right.

00:29:44.11
Bill
And I mean, there was I know my first lead, you made a comment. You made, you made a comment, I think when I led your home group like a year ago um about something.

00:29:51.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:52.43
Bill
And I don't, I think it was about the, we, the, we in the program or whatever it was you or somebody did.

00:29:54.81
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:29:56.83
Bill
I think it was you. Um, you were Sean or i whoever it was, somebody made that comment and I didn't same deal.

00:30:00.66
Mike
Right.

00:30:03.08
Bill
I didn't realize that I was making a point of it, but, um, that's good.

00:30:05.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:30:08.04
Mike
Right. Right. Right. Yes.

00:30:10.06
Bill
i mean, the fact that that's, uh, that that's at least if nothing else, it's the same thing I was talking about before. I mean, this, this shit gets ingrained in my head. I know it sticks in there someplace. I don't know where it's at all the time, but you know, it, it knows well enough to pop up go, Hey, here I am.

00:30:19.14
Mike
right right

00:30:23.97
Bill
Let's talk about this part.

00:30:24.27
Mike
and see

00:30:25.06
Bill
Yeah. this is This is what you need to talk about. This is what you need to look at. So now that's wonderful too.

00:30:29.61
Mike
yeah

00:30:31.79
Bill
and i Once again, people between that that one one year, the three year mark, you know i um I feel personally that in in most cases, not everyone has the same effect on me, but

00:30:42.55
Mike
Sure.

00:30:44.29
Bill
You know, in a lot of those cases, um I feel inspired by people at that at that time frame just because they're so new and they're so fresh. And sometimes the things like that, the things that they don't know or don't realize that they know um is really cool.

00:30:54.68
Mike
and Right.

00:30:59.10
Bill
You know.

00:30:59.13
Mike
is it Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:01.62
Bill
Nice. OK.

00:31:02.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:03.53
Bill
All right. So, yeah. the what did this pop up? Oh, just a couple of days ago. Cause I think it, I can't think of the day now, June 17th, I think is a day for it. But um Jim Benny ah was 10 years ago that he died.

00:31:17.09
Bill
Can you believe it's been 10 fucking years?

00:31:17.15
Mike
Mm. Goddamn. Yeah, no.

00:31:19.81
Bill
I know.

00:31:22.76
Bill
So and it's, there's a couple of people. I think I get the, um I get the Mulholl one that pops up. I get the one for my sponsor for the legacy thing.

00:31:30.46
Mike
Mm-hmm. Okay.

00:31:31.80
Bill
And then I must have, I must have signed Jim's book or whatever, because I get that one that pops up.

00:31:37.83
Mike
and Okay.

00:31:38.26
Bill
And, um, it was just a couple of days ago, but then I look back, I'm like, God, when was that? Yeah. June 17th of 2015 is when he, when he died.

00:31:46.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:46.76
Bill
Um, which again blew, blew my mind. But, uh, I thought about that and you know, think again, thinking about the, you know, the first 30 days, the first 60 days. So, um, Jim was the, he was a guy at the time that we got there.

00:31:55.38
Mike
z

00:32:00.13
Bill
How, how did he have 16, 15, 16, 17 years?

00:32:03.77
Mike
Probably something like that. Yeah.

00:32:05.57
Bill
Yeah. So, I mean, roughly in our, actually in our range now, um you know, at the time that we got there and, you know, whatever was that, that was a Wednesday, right?

00:32:08.19
Mike
hu Right. Yeah.

00:32:13.00
Bill
Did he did that? And how many hours, how many hours was it?

00:32:13.66
Mike
Yes, it was.

00:32:18.03
Bill
It was, yeah, it was, it was a lot, but, oh, was it too?

00:32:18.16
Mike
all of them.

00:32:21.19
Mike
It was two. It was two.

00:32:23.13
Bill
Okay.

00:32:23.17
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:23.33
Bill
I was going to say, God, it could have been, it felt like five, you know, for, for all that, but he, he was the one that came in and we've talked about him before, but he came in with the, with the boom box and the tapes.

00:32:23.79
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right.

00:32:30.95
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:32:32.93
Bill
It was the big book on tape.

00:32:34.13
Mike
Yes. Right.

00:32:35.35
Bill
And he would play chapters and then he had his, you know, troll friend with him that was, that guy was, yeah, he was fucking creepy, creepy as fuck.

00:32:40.14
Mike
Right, Toady? Yes, he was.

00:32:44.49
Bill
Just creepy.

00:32:45.73
Mike
yes he was

00:32:45.95
Bill
um But I mean, yeah, he would sit there and play the tapes and then we talked about them too because I think we, didn't we? We just, there was a discussion with that or or did we?

00:32:53.63
Mike
Yeah, a little, but yeah, not a lot.

00:32:56.06
Bill
Okay. Right.

00:32:56.63
Mike
It was mostly they playing the tapes from the driest, whitest voice in the world, ah reading the big book.

00:33:02.47
Bill
yeah Right.

00:33:05.52
Mike
And yeah, no, and then they would kind of talk about it a little bit. I don't think we really talked a whole lot like as a group.

00:33:12.45
Bill
Yeah, and I don't, I don't,

00:33:12.50
Mike
Yeah, it was it was mostly listening to those fucking tapes.

00:33:16.75
Bill
Right. Which, you know, the the funny part is, and i and I think I might have even brought this up on on here before, but um after I, or after we got to the point where were looking for work, I mean, I i was there on a Wednesday um one time when when he was there and and I'm like, ah ah literally I literally had nothing else to do.

00:33:30.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:35.76
Bill
So i I walked in and I sat down in the in the group room during that.

00:33:39.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:40.14
Bill
I don't know remember how long I stayed in there, but I was sitting there and i was actually enjoying it.

00:33:42.20
Mike
Ah. Right.

00:33:46.90
Mike
ah

00:33:47.86
Bill
And I'm like, that's fucking weird, you know, but maybe an example of, you know, 30 days versus 90 days.

00:33:51.10
Mike
yeah right

00:33:58.31
Bill
Doesn't seem like a long time, but a big difference, you know?

00:33:58.45
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

00:34:01.04
Bill
And, you know, I started to ah maybe maybe understand and have some clarity, not all of it.

00:34:06.07
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:34:06.95
Bill
Um, you know, but I sat there and I was just listening to, ah listening to these tapes and actually, you know, grabbing something and taking something out of it.

00:34:13.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:15.05
Bill
And it blew my, I remember it blowing my mind because I'm like, I hated this a month ago, you know?

00:34:18.41
Mike
Right. Sure. Right. Well, I mean, that you had a clearly a little bit of willingness, you know, as opposed to a month and a half earlier when you didn't have any willingness, you were forced to do it.

00:34:31.41
Bill
ah Right.

00:34:33.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:33.69
Bill
Yeah.

00:34:34.17
Mike
Yeah. It's amazing. A little bit of willingness, what it'll do for you can actually, yeah, yeah it changes a lot of shit.

00:34:38.05
Bill
Right.

00:34:40.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:41.85
Bill
Yeah. And even, you know, i was just thinking back when when we were kids, you know, I remember specifically in where we lived in Pittsburgh, right behind our, the house that we lived in, um there was this, it it kind of the backyard angled down. Mom had a garden, of course.

00:34:56.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:56.27
Bill
um And then behind the garden, it kind of angled down and there was this big ravine and woods behind our house.

00:35:01.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:02.44
Bill
And that's, we used to play down there. It was wonderful. Whole side note, just really wonderful place to spend a few years as a, you know, eight, nine, 10, 11 year old, whatever we were.

00:35:10.66
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

00:35:11.69
Bill
Um, but you know, we had, we had trees and I mean, just, just get layered and layered with leaves.

00:35:18.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:18.99
Bill
Um, and you know, we, we get this idea, whether it was Kathy and I or whoever, and we just rake leaves in the backyard and jump in the leaves, you know, and it was a lot of fun until, you know, mom got home and she's like, yeah, well, you know, you gotta, you actually gotta rake those up and toss them over, toss them over the hill.

00:35:25.98
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:35:32.27
Mike
Right.

00:35:34.19
Bill
And then it was no fun anymore.

00:35:36.47
Mike
Right.

00:35:36.55
Bill
You know, absolutely fucking sucked.

00:35:39.54
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:39.96
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, the first time I was able to, you know, allowed to cut the grass, I'm like, this is kind of great. And then it became, you know, something I had to i fucking cut the grass, but it's the same thing.

00:35:45.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:48.03
Mike
suffer

00:35:50.79
Bill
The same thing I was doing with the goddamn leaves. I was doing, you know, 10 minutes earlier, but now I had this. Somebody told me to do it.

00:35:55.86
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:35:57.19
Bill
So yeah yeah, as a, as a nine or 10 year old child, I was the same goddamn way as I was at 41.

00:35:58.48
Mike
That's...

00:36:01.72
Mike
As a budding alcoholic, I believe that's why they call them suggestions.

00:36:02.09
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:05.76
Bill
yeah

00:36:08.56
Bill
Right. Yeah. it's Yeah. I didn't appreciate her suggestions at the time.

00:36:12.61
Mike
Ha ha ha ha ha.

00:36:12.92
Bill
yeah Not even not even one little bit. But um yeah, it was just ah but yeah seriously, it's um all said done. I mean, it I once again, i know that I got something from those meetings with Jim.

00:36:26.32
Mike
Right.

00:36:26.49
Bill
um Ultimately.

00:36:28.10
Mike
Right.

00:36:28.74
Bill
And, you know, um whatever, whatever they talked about. That's what i said. I couldn't even remember if we had a discussion about it.

00:36:33.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:34.40
Bill
I don't I seriously do not remember that.

00:36:36.57
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:36.72
Bill
ah But I mean, there's nothing wrong with sitting there and and having that book fed to you, you know, nothing at all.

00:36:42.17
Mike
Right.

00:36:43.51
Bill
And it's been a long time. And I mean, a long time. When's the last time you sat down and read anything in the big book, with the exception of like one of the readings for a meeting?

00:36:53.28
Mike
Right. um It's been a couple years.

00:36:57.86
Bill
Yeah, I mean, i i can't even, I don't, I know I haven't read anything since I've been here. And I, you know, came down here three years ago.

00:37:05.38
Mike
Right.

00:37:05.82
Bill
So that's three. um i don't think I've read it, you know, since the pandemic. That's five. um

00:37:11.25
Mike
Right.

00:37:11.67
Bill
I don't know. I have no idea. ah You know what? Let me take that back. Maybe it was, I had it in my mind, um... maybe it you know Maybe it was right before right at the start of the pandemic that I sat down and I told myself I was going to read, I don't know, five pages or a chapter out of the big book every night.

00:37:29.52
Mike
All right.

00:37:29.60
Bill
And I did for about four nights.

00:37:30.87
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:37:34.13
Bill
Then I'm like, i don't feel like doing this anymore.

00:37:36.52
Mike
Actually, that's, that's, I was being dishonest.

00:37:36.86
Bill
All right.

00:37:39.02
Mike
I lied to myself and believed it. God damn it.

00:37:40.92
Bill
Damn it.

00:37:41.58
Mike
Yes. No. ah yeah and um ah About a week and a half ago, I kind of, I didn't deeply read it, but I kind of read over Bill's story a little bit just because, you know, yeah.

00:37:51.89
Bill
oh okay

00:37:53.72
Mike
Because I was like, you know, hackcker we're going down to Founders Day, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, I did read a little of Bill's story.

00:38:01.25
Bill
Okay.

00:38:01.27
Mike
Yes.

00:38:01.53
Bill
Well, so there.

00:38:01.88
Mike
All right. So there you go.

00:38:03.74
Bill
Yeah. And I think that, I think we've talked about this. I think when we first started this podcast and I, you had me beat then. And now I know you got me fucking way beat on that too. It's ah seriously, I don't think I've, I don't think I've read the big book since we started the podcast.

00:38:17.13
Bill
So again, three and a half years, so you know, in a minimum, but I did.

00:38:17.67
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:38:20.57
Bill
I, I just did. I, I had that mindset to sit down and, and I, there's nothing. I liked the big book. I really do.

00:38:26.79
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:38:27.80
Bill
you know I used to love going to big book meetings, and that's the thing. you know We're doing the same goddamn thing in ah in a big book meeting, just it was you know a group of people you know that were doing the readings.

00:38:33.83
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:38:36.55
Bill
But um I used to go to one in Mequon on a semi-regular basis, um one of the big book meetings.

00:38:36.70
Mike
Right.

00:38:44.27
Bill
I think I went to one in Cleveland for a little bit. Well, Dan's. Dan's was a big book.

00:38:47.84
Mike
Well, yeah, right.

00:38:49.34
Bill
But there was another one I thought I went to. Maybe not. But yeah, Dan's was the big book discussion.

00:38:51.68
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:38:53.18
Bill
So I don't know. I mean, it's I don't i I'm not opposed to it. I just haven't done it because I'm a lazy.

00:38:58.32
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:39:00.70
Bill
I'm a lazy fuck.

00:39:01.67
Mike
Right.

00:39:02.06
Bill
yeah

00:39:02.17
Mike
And I mean, I catch a little bit because, um you know, Andrew, who was the secretary at my home group, um he gets together with a few guys before the meeting.

00:39:07.54
Bill
Right.

00:39:11.19
Mike
And so like usually when I pull up, they're out sitting outside smoking cigars and and in doing a big book reading. So I catch a little of it.

00:39:18.26
Bill
Oh, really?

00:39:18.86
Mike
Yeah. You know, so I'll catch like five minutes or so towards the end of it, whatever they're doing. and Yeah. So I get I get a little get a little. Yeah.

00:39:28.44
Bill
Get a little glean off of it. You know, a little big book shrapnel, if nothing else.

00:39:29.84
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:39:34.89
Bill
It's just pegged in the side of your brain with a little bit of big book knowledge.

00:39:38.66
Mike
Right. And it's usually, you know, I'll walk up and they'll be reading whatever and I'll go, oh yeah, they're doing that.

00:39:39.82
Bill
But... to

00:39:44.49
Mike
I mean, so, you know, I recognize it. Like you said, it's in there somewhere. It's just, you know, I probably need to drench it up a little more often.

00:39:51.90
Bill
Right. Well, that's the other thing too. And I'll bring up, and it just made me think about this. I'll bring up what Matt did on a sober friends podcast. He did. And seriously, if if anyone's listening to this and you, whether you listen to, to sober friends or not, it's, they've they've got good content. There's,

00:40:07.35
Bill
um They're a little bit um little bit more structured, which is not to say too much.

00:40:10.99
Mike
um Yeah, it's a low bar.

00:40:12.54
Bill
Not saying a lot, yeah, low bar, but obviously more structured than us. Usually one topic and and that sort of thing. But Matt did this whole series of decoding the big book, and he had an individual on that wrote this really, really long book about the about the big book.

00:40:28.51
Bill
um this I don't know. I can't remember that guy's name. But anyhow... Matt did a really nice job. He would do um a chapter and he'd talk about a little bit of history, this and that, and then he read the chapter through these through these episodes.

00:40:39.28
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:40:41.17
Bill
um And I listened to all of them. So, I mean, I um i i'd listened to the big book semi-recently.

00:40:45.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right?

00:40:46.95
Bill
that's I guess that's been since I've been down here. but

00:40:49.02
Mike
Sure.

00:40:49.37
Bill
um So, anyhow, my my point is is that if you want to... get a glimpse or, or a you know, dip into the big book a little bit and actually get background in history and that sort of thing.

00:41:01.13
Bill
um and Not necessarily like you said, Mike has some just dry white voice, um you know, reading it. Matt from Sober Friends and his, all of the episodes, if you scroll back through, I don't know what numbers they are, but they're listed as decoding the big book and it tells you what but chapter he did. So,

00:41:17.26
Bill
Hey, go check it out. He did. And I, I told him that at one point, I think I messaged him and told him what, ah I thought he did a great job on it. So um yeah, well, he, see they put a lot.

00:41:23.59
Mike
Cool.

00:41:25.98
Bill
Matt's Matt's very particular. We are not, but to one other thing that I wanted to, Oh, I know what I wanted to bring up.

00:41:28.62
Mike
Right.

00:41:34.97
Bill
So speaking of our, our episodes. So um our episode from last week, and I, obviously I was in Cleveland, you know, when we recorded it and when this happened, but um I already told Mike about this, but,

00:41:46.87
Bill
If you, if anyone's listening to this or, well, of course you're listening to it, that's so stupid.

00:41:51.22
Mike
yeah

00:41:51.82
Bill
Those of you listening right now, take a look at the picture from last week's episode.

00:41:56.74
Mike
ay asked

00:41:56.77
Bill
So episode one 72 and it's, you know, two youngsters that are clearly drinking bottles of alcohol. And, um,

00:42:04.25
Mike
Toddlers, not youngsters.

00:42:05.18
Bill
toddlers yeah toddlers and um i think it was within god it might have been within the it was within less less than an hour from the time that our their episode actually went up on a saturday um i get this email from from youtube and it's like you're well hang on let me i think i want to read i want to read the email because this actually made it it worried me only for a minute but i'll explain why but

00:42:05.69
Mike
Yes, yes, yeah yes, yes.

00:42:14.60
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:42:31.32
Bill
Let me, where is it? Oh, here we go. And it's titled YouTube removed your content. And I'm like, what?

00:42:38.64
Mike
Dun, dun, dun.

00:42:39.79
Bill
but Hi, sober, not mature.

00:42:42.51
Mike
Yep.

00:42:43.61
Bill
it looks like episode one or it looks like a sober, not mature episode 172 brothers in defects didn't follow community guidelines to help our community, um to keep our community safe. We removed it from YouTube.

00:42:56.78
Bill
We think your content didn't follow our child safety policy. content Content that endangers the emotional and physical well-being of minors isn't allowed on YouTube. Read the policy. I didn't.

00:43:10.89
Mike
it

00:43:11.04
Bill
um How this impacts you. This is just a warning. Thank you. Because this is your first time, you can still upload, post, and live stream. However, we removed your content from YouTube.

00:43:21.69
Bill
What to do next? Review your review your content and the policy.

00:43:25.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:25.65
Bill
After your review, you can appeal if you think we got it wrong. And side note, they did not necessarily.

00:43:31.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:32.92
Bill
um Based on their guideline, I'm i'm guessing I'm like, yeah, fuck it. It's not even worth it. I don't need them.

00:43:36.71
Mike
Right.

00:43:37.72
Bill
We don't need them digging into all of our other episodes to take a look at anything.

00:43:40.00
Mike
Right.

00:43:41.28
Bill
So we'll we'll take the hit. We'll take the speeding ticket.

00:43:44.51
Mike
Yeah, apparently drawer is fine, though.

00:43:44.71
Bill
um And it's...

00:43:46.51
Mike
You can pee in drawers, just don't have ah don't have a toddler with a bottle of booze in their hand.

00:43:47.30
Bill
Eh. Heh heh heh.

00:43:51.89
Bill
it's Or you could take optional training to remove the warning. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, um automated systems, blah, blah, blah.

00:43:55.35
Mike
um

00:43:58.72
Bill
So um I told I told Mike right away. And then the first thing, then what I did, I checked all of the I checked Spotify, i checked Apple, I checked Amazon. um I'm checking everywhere to make sure. I mean, it was up on our website and on pod page and all these different things said because um i I'm going to say, I don't care about YouTube.

00:44:17.79
Bill
I know you don't care about YouTube.

00:44:18.87
Mike
Right.

00:44:19.81
Bill
um We don't do anything with it. It just happens to be through PodPage, which is our website.

00:44:25.88
Mike
Mm

00:44:26.07
Bill
um host for Sober Not Mature, there's a link or there's a thing, you know a button that you could have it post automatically.

00:44:33.32
Mike
hmm.

00:44:34.42
Bill
I think we could also, we I could have had it automatically post to Facebook, which I don't. I could have post to LinkedIn, whatever. you know

00:44:41.58
Mike
Mm

00:44:42.33
Bill
um But I thought YouTube, whatever, because we had talked about doing shit there. doesn't matter. So the point is, is that yes, after it took us 172 episodes, but we we got something we got something banned from from the Google.

00:44:55.87
Bill
thank yeah

00:44:56.08
Mike
Right. Sober, and not mature. Bad for children. Right.

00:45:01.98
Bill
God, that could be a new tagline Seven numbers are bad for children. But you know what? The thing of it is, I mean, I'm kind of surprised that I kept an eye. I kept a close eye on that for a couple of days because, um I mean, you know, the the whole Facebook, Instagram, meta universe, they're the ones that can be picky as fuck.

00:45:12.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:17.71
Mike
bright

00:45:20.02
Bill
And we've gotten flagged on stuff before that isn't even bad.

00:45:21.99
Mike
listen

00:45:23.91
Bill
um I mean, I've gotten flagged on some memes and shit like that before, which I'm like, to yeah, I get it.

00:45:26.34
Mike
Oh, yeah. Right.

00:45:28.20
Bill
I understand that. um But i we didn't get flagged on that, thankfully. And that's what I care about more because that's where the actual audio goes.

00:45:31.79
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:35.46
Bill
if If one episode is missing on YouTube, we have... almost zero, you know, when it comes to a following, I don't know, we have about 15 people on YouTube.

00:45:42.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:45:44.54
Bill
Um, who knows, maybe at some point we'll do something with it, but, um, I don't know. It's fucking YouTube, you know? So you pulled, you pulled one thing and, um, you know, so nice job, Mike.

00:45:49.67
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:45:53.88
Bill
I mean, and I mean that in a positive way.

00:45:54.81
Mike
Yeah,

00:45:55.28
Bill
I don't, I don't mean, I don't mean that sarcastically.

00:45:55.55
Mike
right. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah.

00:45:57.70
Bill
I'm like, that's kind of cool. You know, it took, took the fucking hit, you know, but I, I just liked the way they put

00:45:59.05
Mike
yeah right

00:46:03.56
Bill
This is just a warning. You're okay.

00:46:06.72
Mike
thanks

00:46:06.98
Bill
But if, but if you do it again,

00:46:09.25
Mike
and since

00:46:09.41
Bill
And I'm like, okay, whatever, whatever. So, but, um, yeah, on that note, speaking of our, our websites, what do you think, Mike? Should we take a little break?

00:46:20.53
Mike
I think we should take a break, endanger some children, and we'll be right back after these words from our sponsors.

00:46:34.92
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back.

00:46:38.23
Mike
He he.

00:46:40.06
Bill
And yeah, hopefully you ah you now know that you can visit both of our websites. And that was with our new music.

00:46:44.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:44.94
Bill
You know what? There was another um piece of music, that free music that I had downloaded at the same time, but I like the one that we used. You want to hear the other one that I downloaded?

00:46:53.94
Mike
sure yeah little more upbeat.

00:46:54.26
Bill
Okay, here we go.

00:47:01.02
Bill
So that's the one that we didn't use. This is the one we use. Oh, yeah.

00:47:10.19
Bill
I like the the one that we ended up using. I kind of like the the, I don't know, the smoothness of the other one, but it just seemed like it would drag along. I thought we needed something something more, yeah, snappy.

00:47:20.73
Mike
Yeah, something you can dance to.

00:47:22.97
Bill
Something you could dance to rather than boom, boom, boom. We should do this while you're doing your reading. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then this.

00:47:39.92
Bill
I'm going to go find more free music just to fuck around every once in a while.

00:47:42.37
Mike
I don't know. Do I? Yes.

00:47:44.16
Bill
But so actually, no I'll get to the other thing before. So what about you want to do a quick pause? qui

00:47:52.23
Mike
i don't know do i

00:47:52.32
Bill
pause

00:47:54.85
Bill
Hey, Mike, do you want to do a quick wrap up on Founders Day last weekend?

00:47:55.67
Mike
yes

00:47:59.74
Mike
Sure.

00:48:01.41
Bill
Jesus Christ. You know what? It's I don't know. hey I had a good day. Had a good couple of days. I'm not tired. Actually got I think I got some decent sleep lately and all this different stuff.

00:48:07.16
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

00:48:09.85
Bill
And I can't I still can't fucking speak.

00:48:11.66
Mike
All right

00:48:11.68
Bill
So it has nothing nothing to do with outside stuff. Take away. Take away the substance. I still got fucking problems.

00:48:17.80
Mike
right.

00:48:19.79
Bill
But yeah. So, I mean, we had wit obviously Founders Day last weekend. um

00:48:23.52
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:48:24.52
Bill
Kathy ended up coming, so that that worked out well.

00:48:27.18
Mike
Right.

00:48:27.34
Bill
um There was a little bit scared a little bit of a scare with one of her dogs, and she wasn't sure if she was going to come. So obviously Kathy, our sister, came.

00:48:33.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:33.54
Bill
And then we ended up, I think, yeah I did bring it up last week that Shirley was going to be there. Did we talk about that?

00:48:38.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:39.55
Bill
Yeah.

00:48:40.85
Mike
I don't even... what Were we 100?

00:48:42.31
Bill
I think I brought it up.

00:48:43.43
Mike
Okay. I mean, yeah, I think you brought it up. I don't know that we were 100%, though. Maybe it was like, you know, 80% or something. But, hey, guess what? Shirley showed up.

00:48:54.56
Bill
Yeah, our friend and our podcast guest from a few weeks ago, we actually got to got to meet her, as the kids say, IRL in real life.

00:48:58.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:02.12
Mike
Ooh. Ooh.

00:49:04.21
Bill
But it was nice. And, you know, the the thing that was is that um i to begin with, she was going back and forth about, you know, those they they have buses coming out of Detroit. You know, obviously people come and she had missed that.

00:49:16.23
Bill
Other people that have gone before, they're like, yeah, did it once. I'm good. Or, yeah Don't feel like going or whatever the case was.

00:49:20.46
Mike
Right.

00:49:22.99
Bill
um So she ended up coming by herself. She grabbed an Airbnb. I don't know. She said 20 minutes or so away and, um you know, made it made a whole thing of it. So, um yeah, it was it was nice because we get to kick around with her and obviously had a chance to meet her, which is nice.

00:49:35.20
Mike
and We did.

00:49:37.07
Bill
But it was it was just that it had turned out to be I mean, the weather. I mean, I couldn't complain about that. Right.

00:49:43.43
Mike
No. Perfect. Well, I mean, it could have been five degrees cooler, but yes, other than that, it was perfect.

00:49:49.47
Bill
Yeah, and I mean, by the time we got to the, but by the time we got to the, probably midway through the lead as the sun and stuff was going down, it got a little bit chillier, but not terrible.

00:49:56.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:49:59.08
Bill
But, I mean, it you know, it cooled down a little bit.

00:49:59.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:01.20
Bill
But, yeah, I mean, it was just, ah it was a nice day. And then, as you said, you brought a couple of normies, right?

00:50:07.35
Mike
I did. Yes. Well, Chris, you know, came and and my granddaughter came, Lydia.

00:50:12.23
Bill
Right.

00:50:14.38
Mike
Yep.

00:50:14.66
Bill
Yeah, and that was ah that was nice. I mean, i'm i'm glad I'm glad she was able to come. And ah she seemed to have a nice time, you know, kicking around with us.

00:50:19.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:50:21.55
Bill
And she was down there when when we went to Dr.

00:50:22.02
Mike
Right.

00:50:25.31
Bill
Bob's at one time, whatever it was, two, three years ago or a couple years ago or whenever it was.

00:50:27.44
Mike
Yeah. but i don'

00:50:28.67
Bill
But, yeah, yeah I don't remember.

00:50:29.22
Mike
Yeah. what Two. Was it two? ah Or I thought, yeah, yeah. It must have been two because it wasn't last year.

00:50:38.15
Bill
Yeah, at least at least two. Or was it was it the first year that we were doing the podcast? Was it 2018?

00:50:43.40
Mike
No, it was the second.

00:50:46.23
Bill
Yeah, fucking I.

00:50:46.22
Mike
Yeah, so it was like two years ago. I don't know, man. It was our anniversary. I know it was April. That much I know.

00:50:52.05
Bill
Right. Yeah, you know what? I'm thinking it might it it might have been three. I could i could slip through my flip through my my pictures real quick.

00:50:59.72
Mike
You know what? It doesn't matter.

00:51:02.07
Bill
No, I know. That's what I'm saying. I could do it, but it doesn't matter. But one way or the other, it was it was a really it was a really nice day. And um you said you saw a couple of people that you knew. I didn't see a lot of people there, which is kind of weird, but.

00:51:12.22
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, we didn't. Yeah, there was, you know, clearly there were people there that we knew, but we just didn't run into them.

00:51:19.40
Bill
Right.

00:51:21.75
Mike
Yeah. I don't know. i Yeah, it was it was a nice day. It always is. It was it was great. um You know, I was, it was, God, man, you know what? It was a little too peopley, which usually doesn't bother me down there.

00:51:34.16
Mike
You know, I mean, I clearly don't like... you know, crowds and and, you know, human beings in general. oh

00:51:43.49
Mike
But usually it's, you know, it it doesn't bother me as much down there because, you know, or we're sober and trying to be good people and whatever. Prime example, though, of um when we were waiting for the bus van thing to take us out to Dr.

00:51:59.37
Bill
Oh, yeah. yeah

00:52:00.09
Mike
Bob's house, right? We're standing in line and, um, you know, we were not far from the beginning of the line. We were probably, i don't know what, 10 people back, something like that.

00:52:10.14
Bill
Yeah.

00:52:10.34
Mike
And, uh, and, uh, the next bus pulled up and it pulled up like kind of behind us and over and all the people that were behind us went and shot over there and got in line before us.

00:52:21.58
Mike
And I'm just like, really? so this is what sobriety looks like huh you motherfuckers and i you know yeah it's just i don't know man it was kind of i don't know um clearly there were more people there than usual because i think because of the 90 um i think that was probably part of it and it just i don't know man it was it was uh

00:52:27.50
Bill
Right.

00:52:37.92
Bill
Agreed. Yep.

00:52:46.40
Mike
I don't know. It didn't seem like the the spirit was there like it usually is. And yeah, so, you know, kind of put a a little bit of a damper on the day for me, but fuck them.

00:52:59.41
Mike
I was there.

00:52:59.55
Bill
Right.

00:52:59.81
Mike
We had fun. We hung out. That's all that mattered.

00:53:02.88
Bill
Yeah, and that that is, because I mean, both of us, I actually think all of us said something when all those people did that, because that happens to me.

00:53:07.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:10.27
Bill
um I've been in, Aldi is a great example, you know, because sometimes they'll have one.

00:53:14.14
Mike
Sure.

00:53:15.54
Bill
I mean, now they got self-checkout, which I'll go to. I would rather go to self-checkout anywhere because I can go at my own pace,

00:53:20.33
Mike
Right. Again. Not dealing with humans.

00:53:22.40
Bill
Yeah, I don't have to. Exactly. um But, you know, it, the you know, so all these that that don't have that, you know, you're a lot of times in in a line or in like a pack, you know, kind of in front of these old registers. so

00:53:35.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:53:36.24
Bill
And then somebody, you know, somebody will come in and they'll, you know, one of the one of the staff members will know, you know, come over on number four. And then all these people that are behind you start getting in line.

00:53:42.49
Mike
right <unk>

00:53:44.81
Bill
And I'm like, really?

00:53:46.65
Mike
Right.

00:53:46.84
Bill
I I've never done that to anyone.

00:53:47.60
Mike
But again, i right. Of course. But I, you know, again, i expect that out in the quota. Here's my air quotes, real world.

00:53:54.38
Bill
it Right. Right. Right.

00:53:55.42
Mike
Right. You know, I expect it.

00:53:55.79
Bill
hey

00:53:56.34
Mike
Right. Yeah. But then, you know, sobriety based kind of recovery thing. I, you know, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. it just good Again, i maybe just more numbers, and so there's more assholes.

00:54:09.72
Mike
um you know There's always going to be a certain amount, but you know I think i I hold myself to a higher standard, and when I'm in a situation like that, I kind of would hope that other people do too, but apparently not.

00:54:09.99
Bill
right

00:54:21.69
Bill
Right. And I agree with you 100 percent. There was, um you know, it wasn't as much like but by the time we got over the Dr. Bob's, it was what, four or something like that.

00:54:30.91
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:54:31.98
Bill
So it was we didn't go down there and that later, but, you know, late, later afternoon, late to mid afternoon, mid to late afternoon.

00:54:37.97
Mike
Right.

00:54:39.21
Bill
um which is we've been over there later, you know, in the day before.

00:54:41.29
Mike
Oh, sure. Yeah.

00:54:42.46
Bill
um So not as many people over there was actually kind of nice. We're able to get in and out. That wasn't that crowded over there.

00:54:47.56
Mike
Right.

00:54:47.78
Bill
um But I mean, you know, you weren't able to get any T-shirts. All the vendors were gone, which was that was mind blowing that all that was gone.

00:54:54.16
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, dad I just don't think they you know they were there. Yeah. you know And I mean, the one that's directly across the street that's always there.

00:55:04.50
Bill
Right.

00:55:04.56
Mike
um

00:55:04.60
Bill
Right.

00:55:05.10
Mike
And yeah, they were like completely fucking sold out of everything. you know all they And great example, I mean, the one side had T-shirts from past years because they never sell out.

00:55:16.61
Bill
Right.

00:55:18.12
Mike
you know I mean, there'll be you know certain sizes and certain designs will sell out, but they'll always have leftovers because... They were selling them from last year and the year before. And no, it was just, I mean, there was nothing.

00:55:30.67
Mike
There was like not, yeah, you know, I mean, there'll be, you know, smalls left and stuff like that because, you know, it's fucking Cleveland and Akron and whatever. So there's not a lot of small sizes around.

00:55:41.84
Mike
um You know, so that shit's always left over. But there was nothing. It was absolutely nothing from this year.

00:55:46.43
Bill
Right.

00:55:49.22
Mike
it was weird.

00:55:50.24
Bill
Yeah. But, but I agree with you once we got back over and you know, the number of people that were in the stadium, it like when we walked in um it just seemed more packed walking out.

00:56:01.11
Bill
It was what it was. Cause it's always a, you know, if we still to the end, there's going to be a lot of people coming out, but um I agree with you.

00:56:02.43
Mike
Right.

00:56:04.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:06.50
Bill
I mean, there was a lot more, I felt the people too,

00:56:10.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:10.72
Bill
And you know what? um the The funny thing is, is and i'm I'm glad you brought that up because I don't really think about it that much. um I don't like the same type of thing. I don't really like being in in huge crowds, whether it's on a hiking trail, whether it's on, I like room to move, whether it's at a grocery store.

00:56:23.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:27.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:28.18
Bill
um You know, but probably the only time and i I guess I suck it up a little bit would be if you're like at a concert type of thing.

00:56:34.46
Mike
Right.

00:56:35.20
Bill
or a sporting event, or maybe Founders Day, but there were, there were a lot more people. And, and I guess to your point, yeah, just, it didn't seem like people were as considerate, you know?

00:56:39.01
Mike
Yeah.

00:56:44.27
Mike
Yeah. Sober.

00:56:46.39
Bill
Yeah. And that's, I mean, that's, yeah, that's, that's a good point. People weren't acting, you know, as, as you might expect them to act for, you know, a whole group of sober people.

00:56:50.35
Mike
Yes. Yeah.

00:56:55.21
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kind bummed me out a little bit, but you know, I got over it.

00:56:59.53
Bill
Right. But I mean, yeah, cause we had a, mean, we had a nice time, you know what It was, it was, it was, it was just so, I mean, like to your point, I mean, ah I, I wouldn't have wanted it necessarily to be any cooler.

00:57:02.99
Mike
We did.

00:57:10.12
Bill
I'm, I, I know you, you'd rather have it little bit cooler, but, um, but I think the, I thought the weather was just perfect, you know, absolutely, absolutely perfect.

00:57:12.67
Mike
Yes.

00:57:16.89
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:19.87
Bill
But, um, yeah, it was just nice. little bit of haze from the, from the wildfires here and there, but, uh,

00:57:25.84
Mike
From the Canadian invasion.

00:57:27.72
Bill
Yeah, which is still kind of a, it still blows my mind that all, all that, I don't know. I mean, I, I don't know why it, why I would think that why, if it's going to travel here, why that doesn't travel farther, you know, farther South from wherever, but it just, it's still these over the last, whatever it's been handful of years.

00:57:42.67
Bill
It seems like there's, it's like fucking LA now or California now. It's say every year, you know, fucking Canada's on fire, you know?

00:57:47.50
Mike
Well, right.

00:57:48.79
Bill
So. Yeah. Whatever, right?

00:57:53.70
Mike
is. Yeah.

00:57:55.26
Bill
All right. So that would be, that's all, that's all the time we have for Founders Day wrap up.

00:57:59.43
Mike
it is

00:58:00.49
Bill
ah So a quick side note here. And I was listening to, I can't remember what, oh, ah um Rob Lowe podcast. I've been listening to, obviously, you know who Andrew McCarthy is, right? From, okay.

00:58:10.85
Mike
yeah

00:58:12.10
Bill
Do you, did you know that he's sober?

00:58:14.04
Mike
I did not.

00:58:15.19
Bill
I had no idea. um And just take a stab at how long he's been sober.

00:58:22.07
Mike
twenty years

00:58:23.67
Bill
29 years.

00:58:24.63
Mike
wow

00:58:25.55
Bill
Yeah. I mean, he's literally, he's, I mean, almost the, I think Rob Lowe's got a year or two on him or a year year or two less.

00:58:32.55
Mike
ah

00:58:32.67
Bill
Cause I mean, Rob Lowe now is like 30, 30 plus. I mean, cause he's been doing these podcasts I'm listening to were from a few years ago. So I think Rob Lowe is probably 32, 33 now.

00:58:42.78
Mike
ah

00:58:42.83
Bill
But, um, I'm like, I had, first of all, no idea he was sober. And then 29 years, I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:58:48.01
Mike
Wow.

00:58:49.65
Bill
So again, you know, over, over 30 years, but, Yeah, that was that was a lot about nothing, but I'm like, it just it just blew my mind that that he was fucking sober to begin with, let alone 29 years.

00:59:00.26
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:59:01.35
Bill
So, yeah, exactly.

00:59:02.16
Mike
Well, good for him.

00:59:03.90
Bill
So that was my side comment. but All right. So um a couple of quick things on, once again, six month, six step, a couple of things I wrote down from readings.

00:59:14.75
Bill
I had them down in here, I think last week, but just a couple of brief things I wanted to chit chat about. So keep it simple said today, I'll get ready to have my character defects removed.

00:59:25.33
Bill
I will list them and ask myself, what do I get from keeping them? Okay. Okay. So I guess, first of all, my, my question is, cause I don't, I'll be honest. I don't, well, I didn't understand the step, the six and seven step to begin with. So I know I didn't, I didn't write anything down.

00:59:41.19
Bill
um Did you actually, I guess, question number one, did you write down character defects at the time? And did you think about at that timeframe what you would either get or how they might harm you if you kept them? that Was that conscious at all or no?

00:59:57.00
Mike
no, not really. No, I, no, I did not write anything down. And, um, yeah, you know, uh, I, yeah, you know, um became willing, yeah, to, to have them taken away from me. Yeah. That was part of it. Um,

01:00:15.40
Mike
You know, again, it's the six and seven, I believe, are on the list of steps that I've got to work every day.

01:00:21.80
Bill
Right.

01:00:21.98
Mike
um Yeah. um Well, you know, but I do, I always like, you know, in 12 and 12, it's, you know, this is the, when you get to the six, this is the one that separates the men from the boys.

01:00:34.91
Bill
Right.

01:00:34.93
Mike
You know, great.

01:00:35.13
Bill
Yeah.

01:00:36.57
Mike
This is when the work fucking kicks in.

01:00:38.53
Bill
right yeah

01:00:39.13
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. you know and And again, they're kind of, you know, a lot of times they're forgotten. Oh, six and seven. Okay, go sit for an hour after you your fifth and la la la. Okay, I'm done.

01:00:49.90
Mike
yeah No.

01:00:51.97
Bill
hey

01:00:52.36
Mike
Because clearly, yeah, ah there are character defects I'm always going to have. um I try to lessen them. um But yeah yeah, I'm never going to be perfect.

01:01:03.48
Mike
I know that. That's okay. um But yes, hanging on to them clearly is is that detrimental to me. um And being selfish and self-centered, I don't want to hurt myself anymore. So, well, I don't know.

01:01:20.25
Mike
Still working on them, man.

01:01:22.28
Bill
Right. And I mean, ah that's understandable, but I just didn't know if, uh, as I was thinking about it, I just didn't know if, um, cause clearly I, I was one of the ones that thought, you know, just get sit there and do this.

01:01:32.34
Bill
Cause I mean, shit. By the time I asked Joe to be my sponsor, you know, I'm couple years sober. I'm like, Oh, I did these steps, you know, where I, and I think I, again, I think I used the word completed and you' like, Oh yeah.

01:01:38.30
Mike
Right. Right.

01:01:41.87
Bill
I'm like, don't understand.

01:01:42.58
Mike
Right.

01:01:44.77
Bill
We'll come back when you do. God damn it. But um no, I didn't. I just didn't know. i didn't remember um even when I understood it, if I if I really focused on him. I know what my number one is right now. And I think that to this day, patience is still my my number one.

01:02:01.00
Bill
Patience or lack of whichever way you want to look at it.

01:02:02.97
Mike
right

01:02:03.81
Bill
Um, I got plenty of other ones, but I mean, that's the, that's the one that it's glaring all the time is just patience.

01:02:09.31
Mike
hmm.

01:02:09.61
Bill
I have no fucking patience ever, you know?

01:02:11.97
Mike
Right.

01:02:12.97
Bill
or at least not naturally, I guess is the the better way to put it. I don't have a natural propensity for patience.

01:02:16.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:21.57
Bill
Yeah.

01:02:22.05
Mike
Yes.

01:02:23.18
Bill
So the the second thing from it, all of these are kind of along the same lines, and I guess I didn't read them all through before. But so God grant me was talking about us coming to grips with living a lifetime without our defects.

01:02:35.30
Bill
ah What will happen when we face a world without our defects? And my question was, did you have any conscious thought about that when you were working through um step six the first time? But I guess we kind of talked about that a little bit, but Did it ever cross your mind about how that would, um I don't know, from a future standpoint, did you think, well, I don't know how i'm going to deal with this sort of thing?

01:02:54.53
Mike
Right. No. Yeah. Uh-huh. no

01:02:58.29
Bill
See, these are, these are always kind of, these are kind of simple for both of us. Cause I think that, don't know, both of us, I think came to grips with the, with the concept, thankfully of these pretty quickly.

01:03:01.51
Mike
yeah

01:03:05.76
Mike
ah

01:03:06.85
Bill
And then the, the keep it simple. And I'm just going to talk about that. We can go back to the other one also, if you want to, but ah many, many of us can't let go of all of our character defects at once. So every day we, we, we can ask our higher power to remove only the ones that will hurt us today.

01:03:21.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:03:22.14
Bill
Um, so that was the one that that last one, again, this was keep it simple. Um, that one kind of made me scratch my head a little bit because, um, I don't know. I mean, have you, have you ever, even to this day, do you ever give yourself a little bit of, I guess, as the kids say, give yourself some grace and say, damn I'm going to ease off on this one, but I need this one today. I don't, I don't know. it just seemed like a weird concept. but

01:03:44.80
Mike
um I mean, as you read that, i was thinking, you know, um yeah, and I kind of do, you know, um don't, you know, yes, and I don't actually say these words or anything, but it is kind of in the back of my head.

01:03:45.01
Bill
Um,

01:04:00.84
Mike
It's like. yeah, don't let me, don't let my, my fucked up shit, um, get in my way today, you know, or anyone else's, you know, that's, that's kind of the best way I deal with my character defects. Yes. I'm going to always have them. Yes. I do have them.

01:04:16.81
Mike
Yes. They are lessened. And, um, that's kind of my attitude towards it. It's like, well, okay. Um, yeah, Okay. um You said patience is one of yours. um My lack of empathy is one of mine. I know that.

01:04:32.48
Mike
um And it's, you know, try to care about something other than yourself today, right? You know, I'm not going to be full blown. I'm not going to like, oh God, I fucking care about everyone.

01:04:46.79
Mike
It's not going to happen. You're right. It's not going to happen. I understand that. um But don't let it, don't let it get in my way. Don't let it stop me from growing and don't let it stop me from being of use to someone else today, you know, and and I have to be conscious of that.

01:04:57.18
Bill
Thank

01:05:04.29
Mike
And that's kind of the best I can fucking do on a daily basis. You know, don't let my lack of empathy, don't let my my lack of giving a shit about anything um get in my way or anyone else's way. Don't let it stop me from being useful.

01:05:20.75
Mike
And um yeah, that's kind of the best I can fucking do with any of it.

01:05:25.54
Bill
Right. And that's a good point. And, you know, when when you said that, I wrote down what i what I say in one of my prayers because I think I would have forgot it.

01:05:31.83
Mike
hmm.

01:05:32.52
Bill
But one of the things I wrap up with um at the end of my prayers and then it's, you know, in morning and night um is I always say, help me keep my mind in check. Which is kind of, as you were saying that, I'm like, that's kind of me saying to keep my shit straight, you know, keep my defects in order.

01:05:46.04
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:48.75
Mike
Right.

01:05:49.46
Bill
And then immediately after that, I always say, and remember people, places and things, you can't control them. And those, those two things, I, um, I have no idea when I came up with them, but those two things, um, I, I recite to myself twice a day and and it's in that order.

01:06:08.45
Bill
Help me keep my mind in check and remember, uh, you know, the people, places and things.

01:06:11.47
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:06:12.79
Bill
And that is, that's it. Just saying, listen, motherfucker, it you can't control his shit out there and don't fucking blow up at people.

01:06:18.62
Mike
Right. Right.

01:06:20.95
Bill
You know, don't lose your shit on somebody today for no goddamn reason because you can't control them anyhow.

01:06:21.45
Mike
Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm.

01:06:26.72
Bill
Yeah.

01:06:26.97
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Let them fucking whirl.

01:06:29.13
Bill
But then yeah but then i wrap up my my prayers. I say the seven-step prayer.

01:06:35.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:36.04
Bill
you know And that's like you said, you know kind of um you know doing somebody else's will and keeping yourself in, again, keeping everything in shape and and blah, blah, blah.

01:06:42.74
Mike
Right.

01:06:44.05
Bill
But yeah, same thing. I don't know when I when i started wrapping up with the seven-step prayer. But it's, you know, ah in all these things that we that we talk about, um you know, I don't know if they... I mean, part of me, I think, you know, does any of this shit make a difference?

01:06:56.35
Bill
I mean, who knows, you know, but I'm not going to stop it because, um, so far, yes, all of these things that I do clearly have made some sort of difference.

01:06:59.35
Mike
Right.

01:07:04.85
Bill
And I like, like we always talk about, I don't know if I take out that one phrase, help me keep my mind in check.

01:07:05.00
Mike
Right.

01:07:10.84
Bill
Maybe I go off the edge and I start drinking next week, you know, or I stop reminding myself that I can't control, you know, that people, places and things.

01:07:10.87
Mike
hmm.

01:07:13.04
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:07:17.49
Bill
that And then, you know, all sudden I, I don't know, like try to rob a bank like a, like our friend does, you know? Her friend did.

01:07:23.26
Mike
Right.

01:07:24.63
Bill
Hey, I don't know. I don't know what piece is keeping, keeping my shit straight.

01:07:26.75
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:07:30.75
Bill
It's like, does this work? Hey, let's, let's pull out this block out of this, you know, this fucking Jenga thing and in see what, see if the shit falls.

01:07:36.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:38.34
Bill
I could probably get this.

01:07:38.61
Mike
Right.

01:07:39.22
Bill
I could probably take this out. I think I could do this. I get the skill.

01:07:41.10
Mike
All right. yeah Yeah, right. The structure will stay. It'll be fine. Everything won't come tumbling down.

01:07:45.96
Bill
Yeah. Everything is fine.

01:07:49.68
Mike
This is fine. This is all fine.

01:07:52.21
Bill
Settle down. But yeah, so okay. Yeah, those are the those are the only three things I had on the six-step stuff. But sixth...

01:08:03.55
Mike
Nope.

01:08:03.68
Bill
Say that three times fast.

01:08:04.21
Mike
Right.

01:08:05.26
Bill
Six... I can't. I can't even say it once, let alone three times.

01:08:07.75
Mike
Right.

01:08:08.94
Bill
Stuff on the sixth step.

01:08:11.48
Mike
Yes.

01:08:12.54
Bill
The next month, we'll talk about the the seventh step again if I think about it. Pull stuff out of readings again. But... All right, so um I got to tell you just real quick about my doctor's appointment. I got a couple of articles too, but...

01:08:23.72
Bill
So all said and done, this whole this whole ankle thing, I'm not going to get into lot of details with it, but it hasn't healed up. And I've tried everything and I've tried all all whatevers.

01:08:29.03
Mike
Right.

01:08:31.77
Bill
And finally, I'm like, again, powerless, apparently over.

01:08:34.51
Mike
Have you tried leeches?

01:08:36.32
Bill
and No, and it's not that.

01:08:37.32
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:38.06
Bill
It's just, it's the, the and like I said, i'm I'm trying to get gross about anything, but it's still it's still an open, it's an open wound, you know, and it's just gotten to the point where um it's big enough where the skin won't come over, blah, blah, blah.

01:08:44.62
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:08:49.08
Bill
So I'm like, fuck it. I got, I had Monday off and I'm like, im going to try to get in. Um, and I did, I got into a, just a, I ended up seeing, um, all the doctors were busy.

01:08:52.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:56.85
Bill
And then, uh, cause I called first thing Monday mornings. I couldn't, I couldn't set the appointment online.

01:08:59.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:01.35
Bill
It was just so stupid. It's good thing. I, it didn't, the system didn't let me because the lady I talked to, she's like, yeah, it's a new patient. It wouldn't have been set up right. Anyhow. So I got in at three o'clock on Monday, whatever it was, and as a nurse practitioner and two things that that I'll say right off the bat. um I haven't been to the doctor in a long time.

01:09:21.14
Bill
um I have about as much trust for doctors as I do for attorneys.

01:09:25.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:25.61
Bill
They're a necessary evil.

01:09:27.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:27.85
Bill
um And I need to feel comfortable um in order to continue doing anything of when it comes to medical or anything, specifically medical stuff.

01:09:36.98
Mike
Right.

01:09:37.32
Bill
Um, I, I went in for my heartburn years ago and this doctor I dealt with to begin with, she was a fucking knob. Um, and I, I'm like, well, fuck it. I'm not doing any of that stuff, you know, and went back in a year.

01:09:46.14
Mike
Right.

01:09:47.89
Bill
And then the guy I went with worked well with me and I trusted him and ended up getting my surgery done. So, uh, this nurse practitioner just really, really fucking cool. But anyhow, all said and done, fill everything out.

01:09:58.39
Bill
I ended up, by I ended up telling three people I was sober when I did this, by the way, because I mean, think about that. You're telling somebody I tripped over a coffee table.

01:10:05.30
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:10:07.64
Bill
And I really, I felt compelled to to qualify it.

01:10:10.54
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:10:11.45
Bill
Lady on the phone when I set the appointment, because she's like, what are coming in for? What happened? Then the, you know, the, the, the nurse that takes me in and did my vitals or whatever to begin with.

01:10:18.64
Mike
Right.

01:10:19.87
Bill
And then of course, when the actual nurse practitioner, you know, the, what I consider, she's fucking doctor, you know, mean, she doesn't the title, but that's what she is.

01:10:25.34
Mike
Right. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm.

01:10:27.34
Bill
um But then she, she takes off the band and she's like, what did you do? Yeah.

01:10:32.70
Mike
This is this. Oh. This is

01:10:34.57
Bill
So I told her the whole thing. And she's like, well, here's the thing. She goes, it might be a little infected. It's not bad, but I'm going to antibiotics this. going to give you this other stuff. I want you put on it, which is that actually out of stock. I'm waiting for that to come in at Walgreens.

01:10:45.75
Bill
But she said, I'm going to refer you to a wound clinic. Cause she said, this is just a little bit beyond what, what we can do here, but this, that, and the other thing.

01:10:51.65
Mike
This is

01:10:52.63
Bill
And then until she's checking me out and then she's like, she's like, so when's the last time you had blood work? And I, and I'm like, off I'm like, i She's like, well, you should have that, you know, if you haven't had it done in a while, which I agree, you know, I haven't had, I haven't had real physical blood work.

01:11:02.25
Mike
this.

01:11:05.05
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:11:06.35
Bill
So, and then she's, you know, kind of checking my breathing. She's like, got any history of smoking? I'm like, I quit two years ago. She's like, oh, you'll probably be eligible for a free, you know, lung cancer screening. So she's like, I'll write you an order for that.

01:11:17.65
Bill
She goes, when do you get your time? And then she's like, ah you know, um we we might need she goes, number one priority, get to the wound clinic first. They might recommend this. But she goes, I'm going to write you ah in order for an x-ray, possibly to get your legs x-rayed.

01:11:32.25
Bill
Because she said, I want to make sure that you have enough blood blood flow through there. Because she said that could be part of the problem.

01:11:35.52
Mike
Right. Right.

01:11:37.69
Bill
um And she goes, she goes, I'm just being honest. She goes, it could be anything, you know, could be, um could be a heart related thing. She goes, it could be a diabetic type of thing. She goes, I don't know. But she said, that's all these things. The blood work will all these things you'll figure out.

01:11:49.58
Bill
I don't have any like bad symptoms or anything like that, of any of this shit, um you know, but kind of is what it is. And then she's like, when's the last time you had a colonoscopy?

01:11:58.38
Mike
Nope.

01:11:58.61
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, ah, she says, if you can't remember, it's been too long. So she's like, any history of, you know, rectal cancer?

01:12:02.71
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:12:05.28
Bill
no She's like, okay, you can do this.

01:12:06.07
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:12:07.60
Bill
You know, it's Cologuard thing, the male thing. So I've got that coming.

01:12:10.32
Mike
Mm, shit in a box.

01:12:11.89
Bill
Yeah, shit in a box. It's just fucking hilarious. But so here, here's the thing. So all, all said and done. Um, first of all, um, basically what, what it reminded me of. So Dave Chappelle has this bit years ago that he did.

01:12:23.85
Bill
He goes to a police station to pick up his buddy, um, that got arrested for something. And, you know, he's there and a cop's like, oh, while you're here, you know, you've been description. Why don't you come with me type of thing, you know? um And he didn't do anything.

01:12:36.09
Bill
And that's kind of what I felt like. I said, well, while you're here, this this should be done, that should be done.

01:12:38.64
Mike
Right.

01:12:40.60
Bill
But none of the things that she suggested were... We're wrong. They weren't out of the ordinary.

01:12:44.85
Mike
Right.

01:12:45.77
Bill
I'm a 56 year old man who hasn't been to the doctor in fucking years. I mean, yes. Do I want, do I, should I get blood work done? Should I get screened for this? Should I get screened for that? Yes. Yes. And fucking yes.

01:12:56.81
Bill
And what I told Kathy is I'm like the, the only thing I'm like, have no fucking idea how much it's going to cost.

01:13:02.62
Mike
right

01:13:03.35
Bill
Um, but I'm like, here's the thing. Um, just like anything else that it reminded me of, this is the sobriety, the sobriety point of this is that I wouldn't have had it not been, I don't like the fact that I'm dealing with this fucking leg thing.

01:13:15.32
Bill
Um, but it it doesn't hurt. It hasn't, you know, knocked me out or anything like that or knocked me down. Um, but same thing. I was taken to detox and I was taken or to, you know, the Keating center.

01:13:26.72
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:13:26.84
Bill
Um, cause I had no other, no other choice. Right. And I have to go to the doctor for this, which is putting me in a position to have, you know, now I'm in a position to get all this other help, you know, or all these things, these suggestions, you know, that that can help me because, you know, honestly, um I wouldn't have done it on my own.

01:13:37.85
Mike
Right?

01:13:40.25
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:13:44.25
Bill
I wouldn't gone in and be like, hey, by the way, can somebody checked my ass or can I poop in a box? Yeah. i'd like I like that, please. i Lung screening. Yeah, give me some blood work.

01:13:55.55
Bill
Check my legs just to make sure this. I never would have done any of that stuff on my own.

01:13:59.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:59.74
Bill
Not because I don't care. Just because it's my it's us, you know, sometimes. You know, it's our it's our mindset or our mentality. I'm not looping everyone into it. Maybe it's just me, okay? But I don't think I would have done it.

01:14:11.51
Bill
But you know what? All said and done, um you know, I, and you and I talked about it. I, I'd like to, I'd like to stick around, you know, for a couple more years.

01:14:19.38
Mike
yeah

01:14:19.67
Bill
um Maybe, who knows, maybe I can crush the, you know, the male Lindela curse and make it out of my sixties, you know, cause the, the male Lindelas don't live past 66, at least not for the last three generations, you know, so maybe I could bust that up there, at least find out earlier if something's fucking wrong with me, you know?

01:14:32.84
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:14:39.34
Mike
Right.

01:14:39.85
Bill
um And here's the here's the most wonderful part that I didn't think about until right ah right before we got ah down to records. I wrote it down like hey I should talk about this whole doctor's appointment thing.

01:14:50.30
Bill
um I'm not afraid of doing any of this stuff. I'm not afraid of what I'm what I'm going to be told, which is really out of the ordinary for me.

01:14:53.37
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:14:57.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:58.09
Bill
Um, and I don't know why, and I'm not questioning it.

01:15:00.37
Mike
See?

01:15:02.01
Bill
You know, it just, it literally just occurred to me before we get on here that, um, I'm not, I'm not afraid of whatever they could say any fucking thing they want.

01:15:02.84
Mike
Right?

01:15:09.83
Bill
I'm not afraid of it. And I don't know why, you know, and I don't care. but it's, uh, it's again, back to, let's wrap it back to the beginning. It's, uh, it, it, I feel this, this freedom of not having that overwhelming fear of what somebody might tell me.

01:15:23.95
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:24.60
Bill
Is that weird?

01:15:25.73
Mike
Eh.

01:15:28.31
Bill
you just i don't know if it i i'm not gonna i'm not gonna question it like i said but um even though i get some weird fucking news it just i mean it is what it is i got to deal with it you know i would much rather like i've said it before i can deal with anything i just need to know you know so the things that i i i stop myself from knowing things by being fucking lazy or stubborn or whatever the fuck i want to call myself ah by not doing these things but um yeah i'm all said and done the main thing though is i i set an appointment for next thursday that's the first day i could get into

01:15:36.48
Mike
Right.

01:15:41.89
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:55.78
Bill
start getting this leg looked at, but, um, yeah, I got, I've got to get that taken care of once again, you know, it's not, it's not hurting me, but, um, you know, I've tried everything.

01:15:59.59
Mike
Yes, you do.

01:16:02.46
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:03.58
Bill
I've tried all these different bandages and treatments and whatever, and whatever they got to do, they got to fix it. So.

01:16:08.92
Mike
right all right

01:16:09.97
Bill
So there. So, yeah, we'll, we'll see where I'm at a couple of weeks from now. When I come back, I'm like, holy shit, this is all the fucking shit they found out.

01:16:18.78
Mike
right yeah right

01:16:20.35
Bill
Oh, well, let's see if ah what I just said now is a holds true that I guess I'll fucking deal with it.

01:16:23.97
Mike
right

01:16:25.42
Bill
yeah Which again, I mean, whats what the fuck am I going to do? Right.

01:16:28.74
Mike
yeah right

01:16:30.55
Bill
All right. So, um, I think I have a couple of articles. here's the other thing the other night, um, with all this stuff going on, I get this, uh, I'm getting all these fucking random text messages. I'm getting it from Walgreens. I'm getting from the doctor's office, getting a text message about the, you know, the Cola guard thing.

01:16:45.66
Bill
So I got all these things that, I mean, you can obviously delete a whole thread of, you know, these, I don't have to go in individually text. I can just delete the whole conversation.

01:16:54.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:54.71
Bill
Well, um I ended up somehow deleting my text messages, my own. um

01:16:59.93
Mike
Oh.

01:17:00.50
Bill
And because I do that, i'll save ah I'll save things like articles that I read on here. I so i text myself. I've done it with you know certain login information. i had I think I had like Kathy's garage code in there.

01:17:11.58
Bill
um Just little things like that. you When I'm at Airbnbs, i'll I'll put the door code whatever in there. Um, but I went to text something. Oh yeah. When I was downloading our episode clip, I text the episode clip and send it in a text message.

01:17:25.81
Bill
And I look and there's nothing else in there. i'm like, what the fuck did I do? So I deleted all my text messages. Hopefully there was nothing in there as too important, but, um, all said and done, now I've got some new, I've got some new articles in here.

01:17:31.25
Mike
All right. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Hmm. ah

01:17:37.28
Bill
Okay. So there's four of them. I'm going to, going to read just through what the titles are and you tell me what, uh, what, what ones you want that maybe we'll do a couple or whatever we want. Okay.

01:17:45.87
Mike
yeah

01:17:46.78
Bill
um Seven words fake smart people love to use every day or in everyday conversation.

01:17:51.13
Mike
first

01:17:53.36
Bill
That's one.

01:17:53.58
Mike
ahha ah

01:17:54.75
Bill
um Humans aren't built to remember everything. That's kind of funny. Five tips to remember important stuff. um There are seven signs a man is just going through the motions but not really living life.

01:18:07.30
Bill
And then 10 phrases people with below average social skills use in daily conversations. So but what's your number one, number one?

01:18:15.59
Mike
um Do you know what the first one intrigued me the most?

01:18:18.10
Bill
The fake smart people.

01:18:19.13
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:19.30
Bill
yeah All right. So these are seven words that fake smart people love to use in everyday conversations, says psychology.

01:18:27.21
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:18:28.94
Bill
There's a thin line between intelligence and pretentiousness. I believe we know that.

01:18:32.40
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:18:33.60
Bill
Being smart is more than just a big fancy words, blah, blah, blah. So, um, oh my God, right off, right off the bat again, I did not read these. Um, so again, these are phrases that people use that, uh, let's read this title again.

01:18:46.43
Bill
Fake smart people love to use.

01:18:47.85
Mike
Yes. Yes. Actually,

01:18:49.30
Bill
Um, number one, actually, There's something about the word actually that screams pretentious when it's not so used sparingly.

01:18:52.56
Mike
do you? Yes.

01:18:56.83
Mike
is

01:18:57.50
Bill
I use that in words. I use that on paper. I use that all the time.

01:19:04.12
Mike
actually do you

01:19:05.06
Bill
Oh, hi I do. I actually do.

01:19:07.51
Mike
yeah

01:19:07.70
Bill
And sometimes when the the thing, i i don't notice it when I'm talking, but when I'm when i'm writing or or texting or that sort of thing, um I'll see it in a sentence or I'll see it in like a paragraph a couple of times and then it's glaring and I'll remove it.

01:19:20.45
Bill
Um, but yeah, I, I use it quite a bit. This one, I, this one, I fucking hate. Number two, irregardless.

01:19:26.26
Mike
yeah No such word.

01:19:29.59
Bill
I know. Ah, the infamous irregardless. Now this is a word that I've heard misused far too often, in everyday conversation, blah, blah. Cause it isn't, I mean, there's no, it says it's a non, yeah, it says irregardless is a non-standard word often used incorrectly in place of regardless.

01:19:37.81
Mike
It's not a word.

01:19:43.46
Bill
Yeah. It's just fucking stupid.

01:19:44.80
Mike
Right.

01:19:45.21
Bill
Um, number three, paradigm.

01:19:48.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:48.73
Bill
Ever found yourself in a conversation where someone throws in the word paradigm? I don't know that I have.

01:19:52.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:53.85
Bill
um And leaves you scratching your head. Now we both are right now. ah Paradigm is a word that sounds complex and intelligent, making you favorites amongst those wanting to appear intelligent or intellectual.

01:20:04.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:05.77
Bill
What's that?

01:20:06.26
Mike
Great.

01:20:09.82
Bill
Oh, number four, quantum.

01:20:12.28
Mike
yeah

01:20:14.39
Bill
That was a TV show.

01:20:16.10
Mike
If you leap, yes.

01:20:18.62
Bill
mean Okay. i I don't know. Oh, okay. Oh, this is kind of funny because this is the name of Rob Lowe's podcast. Number five, literally.

01:20:26.07
Mike
Literally.

01:20:27.14
Bill
Literally is another word that's often misused in every conversation. Fake smart people literally intensify their statements. um

01:20:34.31
Mike
You have to say it like that, though. you have to say literally. Literally.

01:20:36.91
Bill
Yeah, I do sometimes just fucking around because of Rob Lowe.

01:20:42.70
Bill
um Per se.

01:20:43.90
Mike
that and would that would anyway no that word um when maron had uh ted dancing on like uh yeah like it was a few years ago definitely you know you five years ago whatever but yes he used that way too much and every time he did he said literally and i just and it got on my nerves

01:20:44.83
Bill
Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

01:20:50.68
Bill
Oh, right.

01:21:01.52
Bill
Yep. So um I listened to, I can't remember what their, Ted and Woody Harrelson have one. It's called, think it's called Where Everyone Knows Your Name or so like that. Whatever, it's a Cheers-based thing.

01:21:14.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:14.23
Bill
um But him and Woody Harrelson, but it's basically Ted Danson's podcast, but Woody he shows up every once in a while.

01:21:19.22
Mike
All right.

01:21:19.60
Bill
um And yeah, but I mean, Ted Danson,

01:21:20.91
Mike
Sounds about right.

01:21:24.31
Bill
He's it's his L's that he says like a little bit. He just really enunciates or said because he'll do he'll do the voiceovers for the or the he'll voice the commercials that they have.

01:21:29.32
Mike
Right.

01:21:33.90
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:34.72
Bill
And it does. It drives me fucking nuts. Even sometimes listening to him, um he really enunciates the word. So, yeah, I agree with you right there with you. Ted Danson, shut the fuck up.

01:21:44.91
Mike
Thank you.

01:21:46.59
Bill
ah Per se is an interesting phrase. Ostensibly, it's meant to clarify a statement um or add a stipulation, blah, blah, blah. Per se Oh, here's one. Ergo. ergo. Yeah. Anyone who says that? Yeah, I'm just going to fucking walk away. ergo Often feels forced and inauthentic in everyday conversation.

01:22:07.21
Bill
Agreed.

01:22:07.51
Mike
often um but always

01:22:10.76
Bill
Literally. It literally does. oh So they, yeah, so that was the, that was the seven.

01:22:14.75
Mike
Absolutely.

01:22:17.87
Bill
So now the, the, the main one that actually is the, that's the only one that I use.

01:22:18.62
Mike
Okay.

01:22:22.35
Bill
So maybe I'm not trying to be too fake smart.

01:22:24.65
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, one out of seven is not bad.

01:22:27.07
Bill
Yeah, I thought so. I thought so too.

01:22:28.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:28.63
Bill
What's the percentage on that? Less than, less than 30%, 20, 20, whatever. twenty whatever

01:22:33.70
Mike
Yeah, sure.

01:22:34.69
Bill
Sure. Okay.

01:22:35.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:35.97
Bill
Um, 15, whatever, maybe 15, whatever. Okay.

01:22:39.60
Mike
yeah

01:22:39.72
Bill
So, um, let's do one more. The humans aren't built to remember everything or seven signs. A man is just going through the motions. Let's do that one. Let's do that one.

01:22:48.07
Mike
Yeah, sure. Let's do that one. Yeah, let's go through the fucking motions and do that one. Uh-huh.

01:22:53.00
Bill
All right. Yeah. Let's, let's be part of the, let's be part of the article.

01:22:54.56
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:22:56.49
Bill
Okay.

01:22:57.05
Mike
ah hu

01:22:57.45
Bill
Title again, seven signs. A man is just going through the motions, but not really enjoy or not really living life. Okay.

01:23:04.02
Mike
ah hu

01:23:05.74
Bill
um Um, start off, ever ponder a few, somebody, you know, going through the motions, blah, blah, blah. Um, do this living in the past or future. First off the key signs that a man might be merely going through the motions, constantly dwelling on past or obsessing over the future.

01:23:15.27
Mike
Hmm.

01:23:20.98
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:23:21.62
Bill
So we don't do either one of those.

01:23:21.86
Mike
Well. No. Not anymore.

01:23:25.57
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Not anymore. We're told not to a book told us not to, um, lack of passion and enthusiasm.

01:23:28.43
Mike
Yes.

01:23:33.09
Mike
Hmm. Yeah. Hmm.

01:23:36.89
Mike
yeah

01:23:38.27
Bill
Well, so so here's the thing. I mean, maybe neither one of us anymore. I guess I'm more enthusiastic than you are under certain circumstances.

01:23:46.01
Mike
but Right.

01:23:47.54
Bill
I don't know about more passionate, but I think passion and they don't necessarily have to be, well, maybe there is. There's degrees of. We don't necessarily have to be, we don't necessarily have to be, you know, bouncing off the fucking walls to be, to show our enthusiasm or, um, our passionate things.

01:23:57.00
Mike
Enthusiasms. Enthusiasms.

01:24:03.23
Mike
Right.

01:24:04.91
Bill
So I don't know.

01:24:05.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:06.03
Bill
I mean, it says, uh, uh, each day felt like a carbon copy at last.

01:24:07.81
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:10.07
Bill
Am I excited? White began to dwindle, blah, blah, blah. Okay. um Number three, constant state of distraction.

01:24:18.50
Mike
Right. Right.

01:24:19.85
Bill
So has anyone listened to the podcast? Have you you stuck around for 173 episodes?

01:24:22.72
Mike
Right.

01:24:26.85
Bill
um Yeah. i mean i I don't think we're just, I know for a fact we're not going just going through the motions because if we were just going through the motions with this, we wouldn't do it.

01:24:32.87
Mike
now

01:24:35.40
Mike
right

01:24:35.49
Bill
So that that much I know. Um, this is one, thankfully, I think I can speak for both of us right off the bat and say, neither one of us are doing this today. Neglected personal relationships.

01:24:46.82
Mike
no

01:24:47.58
Bill
No, used to.

01:24:49.09
Mike
Oh, yeah. yeah Right.

01:24:50.06
Bill
all the goddamn time, every fucking relationship.

01:24:51.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:54.72
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:54.97
Bill
Um, so here's the funny part. This, this one came up, lack of self-care. So one of the lists we read a few weeks ago, this is kind of a, it seems like an overlap because I think we had the lack of self-care thing in there too.

01:25:07.38
Bill
But, um, another sign that a man might be just going through the motions, like self-care or something, you know, notice himself, blah, blah, blah.

01:25:07.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:13.78
Bill
Um, same thing. I mean, I don't, I don't consider either one of us, um, lacking in self-care, right?

01:25:18.82
Mike
yeah No, no. I take time out every day to make myself a little bit better. All right.

01:25:24.06
Bill
Yeah, and even make your bed.

01:25:26.56
Mike
Yeah, that too.

01:25:29.27
Bill
ah Number six, overemphasis on success and achievement.

01:25:34.17
Mike
Nope.

01:25:35.43
Bill
Yeah, really, yeah because it says this this point might seem counterintuitive. Overemphasis on success could indicate someone is just going through the motions. How? Achievement-oriented, not uncommon to a success with well-lived life.

01:25:46.49
Bill
Oh, okay, I guess. Yeah, if you wanted to kind of pump yourself up in somebody else's eyes.

01:25:49.88
Mike
right yeah yeah right no here I am this is it yeah

01:25:50.87
Bill
Okay, I get it.

01:25:54.46
Bill
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. the The things that I'm proud of, i'm um I'm happy to talk about, but, you know, I mean, I don't think that I'm, um I don't think I'm looking necessarily for a pat on the back.

01:26:05.25
Bill
Sometimes we, you know, we try to get more people listen to this fucking garbage, but, you know, yeah, but we're not asking for a pat on the back necessarily.

01:26:07.94
Mike
well that'd be nice but yeah no

01:26:14.34
Bill
um Number seven, absence of joy. Yeah. A clear sign that a man is just going through the motions, noticeable absence of joy.

01:26:25.20
Bill
Life feels like never ending to do list devoid of moments that bring genuine happiness. It's time to reassess. Life isn't meant to be merely endured.

01:26:33.94
Mike
Right.

01:26:36.19
Bill
It's meant to be lived with joy and enthusiasm.

01:26:39.62
Mike
Right.

01:26:40.24
Bill
ah Okay.

01:26:41.62
Mike
Enthusiasms.

01:26:42.45
Bill
Enthusiasms.

01:26:42.96
Mike
Enthusiasms.

01:26:44.15
Bill
it's It's what?

01:26:45.80
Mike
He he he.

01:26:46.15
Bill
It's enthusiasms. Yes, those things. All right. I'm sure there was there's a couple more in there, but we can we can save those. I think, you know what? I believe that here, this is how you know how you know we're we're probably close to done. You ready?

01:26:59.30
Mike
Yep. All

01:27:00.30
Bill
That's the papers. Being straightened up and put back put back in order.

01:27:03.72
Mike
all right.

01:27:04.34
Bill
Because I think, I think, Mike, it's your turn.

01:27:07.68
Mike
Oh, that brings me joy. yeah

01:27:12.12
Bill
No need to reassess. Well, you just did reassess, and now you ah you've got joy in your life because ah we've done it we've done enough fucking work for a Thursday night, I think.

01:27:14.22
Mike
i did. I have joy.

01:27:19.69
Mike
Yeah, I believe so. All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. so always be kind to each other, be good to each other, indulge in a little self-care, do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:27:37.84
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:27:52.49
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying... You cannot fuck off past here.

01:28:04.57
Mike
ah Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. and Keep fucking off forever.

01:28:12.43
Bill
I think that was rock solid fucking proof that you have joy and enthusiasm in your life, Mike.

01:28:17.93
Mike
Enthusiasms.

01:28:19.19
Bill
Enthusiasm, enthusiasms.

01:28:19.47
Mike
Enthusiasms.

01:28:21.69
Bill
But no, I like that. i When you laughed, you laughed in the face of, yeah before you could climb over that gate, you laughed, laughed out loud.

01:28:28.55
Mike
I did. i did.

01:28:30.97
Bill
And we have um we have a guest next week. i was going to say we can, you've got a golf outing to go to this weekend, but we'll have to do a wrap up on that Christ in July because we've got ah ah our our friend, the priest, Bill W.

01:28:34.21
Mike
We do.

01:28:37.16
Mike
i do.

01:28:44.37
Bill
the priest next week.

01:28:45.35
Mike
Right?

01:28:45.56
Bill
And then um Kate, I confirmed with her today. Kate's set for the 27th.

01:28:49.21
Mike
Cool.

01:28:50.26
Bill
So um yeah, we've got a couple of weeks coming up for everyone who's getting sick and fucking tired of our bullshit, of just our bullshit.

01:28:55.87
Mike
he Right.

01:28:58.87
Bill
yeah

01:28:58.91
Mike
Trust us, there'll still be some bullshit involved, you know, and it'll be ours, but we'll have someone to share it with.

01:29:05.12
Bill
Yeah. And of, and of all things next week, it's with a priest. Do we have, do we have to be good?

01:29:08.79
Mike
Yay. gotta

01:29:12.77
Bill
I don't even know. Do we have to be, we have to be better?

01:29:13.71
Mike
be me.

01:29:16.75
Bill
ah guess we'll do, we'll do the same thing that, uh,

01:29:18.03
Mike
I gotta be me. yeah i gotta be me

01:29:21.29
Bill
yeah let's do the same thing we do with everyone else. We'll just, you know, kind of, kind of ease into it. See how, uh, see how good old, uh, father Bill W is. And then, uh, You know, go from there.

01:29:32.85
Bill
hey His goddamn fault. He wanted to come on here.

01:29:34.87
Mike
Yeah.

01:29:40.55
Bill
Sorry, father. For we have sinned.

01:29:43.94
Mike
yeah Yes, we have.

01:29:46.27
Bill
right, man I love you, brother.

01:29:47.61
Mike
Love you, too.

01:29:48.38
Bill
Talk to you soon.

01:29:50.25
Mike
Bye.

01:29:51.30
Bill
bye