SoberNotMature - Episode 167 (Cleaning Up After Ourselves)

00:00:01.30
Bill
all right everyone welcome once again to another episode of sober not mature and uh two things i know for sure one i'm not shirley are you shirley

00:00:14.29
Mike
Uh, surely

00:00:17.41
Bill
Surely we are serious. Now here's, here's the good news. The good news is that she did not cancel on us. Not like some of these other fuck sticks that we've had that, you know, don't show up at the last minute or whatever the case is.

00:00:28.87
Bill
um This was not on her. We had a, we had a life moment on our end. um You know, I'll leave it at that. It doesn't have to be expanded on, but I just wanted to make it very, very clear. We wanted to make it clear that it was not her.

00:00:40.69
Bill
um We've, we've got reschedule next week.

00:00:40.75
Mike
so

00:00:42.87
Bill
Um, Does not work because we've got to record early. Mike's going out of town next week for, again, but very positive thing.

00:00:50.12
Mike
Right.

00:00:50.29
Bill
um But then the the week afterwards, so the week of the Friday, the 16th, well, Saturday, the 17th, which would be when it was released. So that'll be probably one of those nights when I'll get very little sleep again because I'm leaving it

00:01:02.50
Mike
All

00:01:02.58
Bill
I'm

00:01:05.76
Bill
i survived at two and a half hours of sleep easter weekend so i think i'll get a little bit more of this time because it's ah the same time zone and i don't necessarily have to be back by two pm like it did last time so so good

00:01:16.63
Mike
right. right

00:01:18.35
Bill
but um yeah so um yeah it's just us but don't don't turn it off we're goingnna try extra hard tonight

00:01:24.57
Mike
Are we good?

00:01:24.56
Bill
and No, no. I actually, actually asked Mike before we started, do you really even want to do this? Because I mean, he's, he's not into this at all.

00:01:31.55
Mike
Well, no, not at all.

00:01:32.44
Bill
I just want, just want everyone to know. So um that's why I said, I would, I would have been more than happy to do it tomorrow.

00:01:35.23
Mike
Right. But my feelings, my feelings don't matter. No, no, no, no. 90% of this shit is showing up and doing what you're supposed to do. So here I am.

00:01:45.47
Bill
Right. So, but yeah, I, I literally, I asked him like, if you don't wanna do this, we don't have to, you know, we can, we can do it tomorrow. It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be a big deal, but yeah.

00:01:53.39
Mike
It would.

00:01:53.41
Bill
So here we are.

00:01:54.08
Mike
yeah i got stuff to do tomorrow.

00:01:54.07
Bill
We're

00:01:57.03
Bill
Okay. Well, it wouldn't have been a big deal for in the grand scheme of things if you wouldn't have had plans tomorrow. But so anyhow, but okay.

00:02:02.27
Mike
Right.

00:02:04.88
Bill
So do you, um do you and again, I know the feelings, but would you like to, do you want to step into, and here's here's the funny part.

00:02:09.83
Mike
Hmm.

00:02:12.31
Bill
I literally, and I've said this before.

00:02:13.82
Mike
Careful how you phrase this. Hmm.

00:02:16.45
Bill
So here's the interesting coincidental part, okay? um I always print off these sheets, but when we have a guest, sometimes I'm like, eh, whatever, just in case. And I did tonight. I almost wasn't going to. I'm like, what's the fucking point?

00:02:28.25
Bill
Everything's set. We're all set with her.

00:02:29.17
Mike
Right.

00:02:29.85
Bill
she's all She's all guaranteed and everything.

00:02:29.97
Mike
Yeah.

00:02:31.75
Bill
And I'm like, you know what?

00:02:32.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:02:33.21
Bill
Fuck it. I'll print it off. Who knows? Maybe there's things on here that we could talk about with her. I don't know how the conversation is going to go. I think it's going to be, um I don't know. I feel like we know her a little bit just because she knows us, I think, from...

00:02:43.76
Mike
Right.

00:02:44.01
Bill
being a listener, but, um, yeah, however it goes, but I printed off, I printed off my stuff. So I have stuff, some stuff.

00:02:49.67
Mike
All right. Well, good. I have a meditation book next to me. Okay.

00:02:54.62
Bill
Well, cool. Then I, then I guess we'll, I guess we'll start off with that.

00:02:57.65
Mike
All right, then. um This was actually from earlier in the week. I went, oh, that one's not bad. So here we go. ah April 30th.

00:03:09.81
Mike
um It's from God Grant Me, case everybody's taking notes, which I know you're not. ah Let's see here. I don't even remember what the hell it is. Here we go. ah Learning is a skill we develop that leads to lifelong adventure.

00:03:26.09
Mike
Anonymous. Yeah, I wouldn't want to put my name on that either. Let's see here. Recovery asks that we commit ourselves to a life of learning. We do not turn our backs on the past.

00:03:37.93
Mike
We learn from it. Past mistakes become guides and warnings to others and to us. As we use the steps, our sponsor, and the fellowship, we make sense of how we got so lost.

00:03:52.24
Mike
We gain knowledge of how we were seduced by intensity, which we mistook for intimacy. We see how we followed our instincts instead of spiritual principles.

00:04:05.71
Mike
We see how our illness needed us to believe that we were of little value. We see how our pain equaled entitlement to keep using.

00:04:16.48
Mike
If we sit and listen, we learn much. While listening in our healing circles, we are learning how to do life, how to do the next right thing. We start to see how to be of service to others instead of being a burden.

00:04:32.73
Mike
We use this new knowledge over and over in this adventure we call life. Prayer for the day. Higher power. Help me to be open and committed to learning.

00:04:45.85
Mike
Keep me from the arrogance that was part of my addiction. Today's action, those goddamn actions. Today I will write down five things that I've learned during my sobriety that have helped me have a better life.

00:05:03.37
Bill
um did i Did we ever read this one before? Because I think we've had questions like that before where it's like, well, everything, right?

00:05:10.06
Mike
Right? Yeah.

00:05:11.44
Bill
I mean, can you... Well, I mean, any one of us could pick five, but I mean, would you even want to sit down and try to pick five? I mean, isn't everything...

00:05:17.53
Mike
not tonight right that is easy no uh no

00:05:21.23
Bill
But I mean, even in general, even in general, mean, try to, you know, isolate five things.

00:05:23.18
Mike
right

00:05:25.23
Bill
I mean, it's kind of like the everything type of thing, you know? So, I mean, I can't think of, well, let's look at it the other way. Name one thing that sobriety has, one way sobriety has made your life worse.

00:05:38.85
Mike
ha

00:05:40.50
Bill
that's That's the easier one.

00:05:41.93
Mike
ah that is easy no i no

00:05:42.16
Bill
Could you, could you?

00:05:45.69
Bill
Right. Yeah. It's like the, it goes back to the old saying of, uh, you know, there's nothing that, uh, um, nothing that a drink would solve or nothing that a drink would make better today and and all those sorts of things.

00:05:54.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:54.90
Bill
But, um, but yeah, that was, uh, again, that was April 30th. So that was, yeah, just couple of days ago. don't remember any of that.

00:06:00.77
Mike
Right?

00:06:02.29
Bill
Not in that, not a goddamn word. And I, I love keep it simple. I read it obviously every day, but, uh,

00:06:06.72
Mike
Well, God grant me, so there you go.

00:06:08.36
Bill
Oh, that was...

00:06:09.17
Mike
it

00:06:09.55
Bill
You know what? I i apologize. for For whatever reason, i thought you said I thought you said keep it simple. So I... God, Jesus.

00:06:15.56
Mike
i don i don't know.

00:06:16.03
Bill
Maybe...

00:06:16.48
Mike
We'll go back and listen to the tape. Who the hell knows what I said?

00:06:19.18
Bill
No, I bet you you did. I just listened wrong, you know? I mean, it's ah apparently it's been one I didn't have like a bad day or anything like that.

00:06:22.90
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:06:27.78
Bill
It's, you know, Friday night's long weekend and in whatever. I mean, I'm not going to get up like super early get out of here tomorrow, but I don't care.

00:06:32.97
Mike
Right.

00:06:33.47
Bill
you know i mean, there's nothing that with tonight that like affected my brain or anything like that. I was sitting there while i was waiting for you. i I got pizza. Have you ever had that? The pan style pizza from Domino's?

00:06:43.00
Mike
yeah

00:06:43.94
Bill
had it was just It happened to be on sale as a medium, which I wanted to get because I didn't want to waste pizza.

00:06:48.50
Mike
right

00:06:48.52
Bill
Two pieces or two little slices are left in the fridge for you, just so you don't wink, wink. But it was yeah was like $9 or $10 or whatever it was, you know two topping, whatever. But it was kind of... um Pizza Hut-ish.

00:07:01.83
Bill
You know, I'm not a huge fan of Pizza Hut, but I haven't had it in a while. So, um but anyhow, so yeah, it was, ah it was good. So I sat here and ate my pizza and watched my stories until you got back and ate and you're like, Hey, are we ready yet?

00:07:13.39
Bill
I'm like, yeah, I'm just waiting on you, man. I mean, not waiting, waiting on you.

00:07:15.30
Mike
Right, right

00:07:16.11
Bill
It's like, whatever works, man. I don't care. So the the one of the last things I wrote down on there, I think, was it the I think the action was the last part of it where it says something along the lines wrote down.

00:07:27.93
Bill
Keep me from arrogance. don't remember exactly what the line was from.

00:07:29.96
Mike
okay Yeah, it was it was in the prayer.

00:07:32.10
Bill
um I don't say that in my prayers, but I probably should maybe.

00:07:39.11
Mike
it was the last line of the prayer. Keep me from the arrogance that was part of my addiction.

00:07:43.45
Bill
There you go. There you go. And, uh, and yeah, I mean, I, I, I know that I'm egotistical and that I don't necessarily use the word arrogant that much, it's the same goddamn thing. But, um, I mean, yeah, it, it probably wouldn't hurt for me to mention that every once in a while.

00:07:52.19
Mike
Right.

00:07:56.49
Bill
Hey, by the way, show me, give me the strength to not be an arrogant fuck, you know?

00:07:57.07
Mike
Right.

00:08:01.51
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:08:03.51
Bill
But I don't I don't know. I mean, I'm egotistical. I do it more to fuck around than anything. I mean, I'm not I'm not full of myself. I was mean, I I was completely fucking full of myself, obviously, prior to sobriety.

00:08:12.86
Mike
Right.

00:08:14.37
Bill
But I mean, I think and I hope that I that I do it more just, you know, kind of fucking around these days because I don't I don't think I'm special. I mean, I really, i really don't. I mean, there's, I have, everyone's got special qualities and things that we can do and things that we provide to people and to the world and your job or whatever the case is.

00:08:30.98
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:32.74
Bill
We have skills, you know?

00:08:33.91
Mike
Sure.

00:08:34.69
Bill
um But I mean, I don't think, um as they say, God, quote unquote, God's gift to fucking anything, anything.

00:08:41.62
Mike
Anything right. Right.

00:08:43.73
Bill
Yeah. But then the other thing I wrote down was something about pain helped us to keep using. um But there was one one thing that I really liked in there that we were seduced by intensity and mistook it for intimacy.

00:08:58.94
Bill
So um I don't know.

00:08:58.99
Mike
right

00:09:01.34
Bill
I mean, I have I have thoughts on that. But what did you think about that? I mean, just in general, that whole thing.

00:09:06.24
Mike
Oh, yeah. I mean, well, absolutely. i mean, every, well, yeah, every relationship I was in prior to being sober, um yeah, you know, I wanted, you know, the chaos and all that crap. I mean, that's kind of how I grew up, so that's how I figured things went.

00:09:23.12
Bill
Right.

00:09:23.35
Mike
um And, yeah, and, you know, thought that was, you know, if you're, if you're all fucking out of your mind over somebody, that must be love.

00:09:34.29
Bill
ah

00:09:34.38
Mike
Um, and clearly it's not, um, well, well, mistaking, yeah.

00:09:35.90
Bill
Right.

00:09:41.45
Mike
Insanity, whatever, man, uh, intensity for intimacy. And it's not, I, I, you know, intimacy to me today should be more comfort and, you know, just, uh, trust and, and, and,

00:09:55.96
Mike
yeah, you know, not having to worry about that intensity anymore. I like comfortable.

00:10:01.27
Bill
Right.

00:10:01.96
Mike
i like knowing that, you know, I'm fairly stable to anyone around me and and I like the people around me to be fairly stable too.

00:10:12.19
Bill
Right. Well, and and when I was talking about the dating app, but was that last week? I think, you know, with the, you know, she was clearly, I mean, I don't know if she was nuts or maybe she's been just been fucking hurt and it's her reaction to to whatever.

00:10:17.06
Mike
Yeah.

00:10:23.37
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:10:23.46
Bill
I mean, I'm not, I don't necessarily, there was a craziness to her, which i you know, and then as I'm,

00:10:27.01
Mike
Sure.

00:10:29.09
Bill
Seriously, I said, the more she gets into it, I'm reading these things. I'm like, God damn, this chick's fucking crazy. I'm like, oof.

00:10:33.42
Mike
Mm-hmm. Out.

00:10:35.81
Bill
And I know for a fucking fact, and I'm not i'm not saying that you know either one of my ex-wives were nuts, but when when I met them, um like like Dawn, i've I've talked about my son's mom a lot.

00:10:41.16
Mike
Mm-hmm. All

00:10:46.37
Bill
And you know her the way that her and I were, um and I think, I forget how you said it the one time, you said passion runs both ways or something like that.

00:10:55.82
Mike
right.

00:10:55.84
Bill
um you know, and it was, I mean, it was like we were like really fucking hot or really fucking cold, you know, and it was, it was the, it was the extremes, you know, when things were good, they were really fucking good.

00:11:01.58
Mike
Right.

00:11:07.19
Bill
But when, when shit got bad and I take my responsibilities for all of that stuff and I, you know, I've all that's all all, that's all said and done. But um when it got bad, it got really fucking bad, you know,

00:11:16.68
Mike
Right.

00:11:17.17
Bill
Um, but yeah, the, the intensity of our relationship to begin with, and don't get me wrong. I mean, I loved her to death. I know I did. She was the first, you know, again, not, not taking anything away from, Pam, my first wife, I loved her and we were in love, but it was a different thing, you know?

00:11:29.73
Mike
right

00:11:33.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:33.45
Bill
And I think you, um, I don't know if you, does that make sense? As you grow, you you learn how to love differently. I know I have.

00:11:38.49
Mike
No, absolutely. Yeah, hopefully.

00:11:39.82
Bill
Okay.

00:11:40.69
Mike
yeah yeah i Yeah, I certainly don't want to love the way I did when I was years old, you know, young, and full

00:11:42.77
Bill
Yeah, that's oh that's i guess a goddamn good point. That's a good point.

00:11:55.43
Bill
Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, and, you know, i've I've said it before and, you know, i've been time and time and time again, but, you know, I've i've learned that there there truly is, there's there's levels of love. You know, there's people, I have people in my life, um you know, family members, friends, male, female, um that I love on on different levels.

00:12:05.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. right.

00:12:12.76
Mike
the

00:12:13.71
Bill
And I would have no issue whatsoever in telling those people that I love them. Um, you know, unless, unless I think that person might take it the wrong way. Not a lot of people understand that it's, it's a black and white either it's lover.

00:12:24.79
Bill
It's not, you know, um, where I just, I, I thankfully I've grown to that point.

00:12:25.47
Mike
right

00:12:29.33
Bill
and it it It is, it's a, it's a huge comfort to be able to love somebody on, on a different level.

00:12:34.90
Mike
then

00:12:34.91
Bill
And I've, I've talked to women about that before that I've been involved in. I mean, there's, don't get me wrong. I mean, sex is great.

00:12:41.56
Mike
Sure.

00:12:41.64
Bill
Yeah. You know, and that's the, you know, that's the, the, whatever you want to call it, the poster child of intimacy, if you want to put it that way. But you know what the, a deep conversation, holding somebody's hands, sitting on the couch with somebody, you know, that, that just that human touch and that human involvement, that's, that's intimacy, you know, and in realizing that, I mean, fuck, I didn't realize any of that shit, at least not on the right level until we got sober, you know?

00:12:57.02
Mike
Right.

00:13:01.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:08.25
Mike
Right. Exactly. And I mean, you know, like I said, you know, just completely knowing that someone's there, you know, that's, that's intimate, you know, knowing I can say anything, knowing that no matter, you know, time of day, whatever, whatever, whatever, man, that that person is there.

00:13:19.30
Bill
Right.

00:13:27.35
Mike
And, and again, the other way around, knowing that I am there for another person, no matter what time of day, no matter what the circumstance, no matter, you know, how, you know,

00:13:39.52
Mike
shit went sideways for them or shit's going sideways for me or whatever, man. We're we're there for each other. And that's, that's, you know, we're not going to run away. We're not going to, and we're not going to blame and we're not going to, you know, how dare you, yeah how dare you do this to me? Well, it's got nothing fucking do with me. Thankfully, hopefully, you know, smash that ego a little bit and humbled ourselves and realize it's, it's not about me it's about them and and and I get to be there for them like that. And that's that's intimate to me.

00:14:09.71
Bill
Right. Yeah, that's ah that's a good point. I mean, just having that, because you can have, yeah, intimacy doesn't, um and I think that's ah that's a good distinction between, you know, going back again, the love and the intimacy, you know, male, female, whatever it is.

00:14:22.81
Bill
it is it's that It's that closeness. And, you know, with children, you know, family members, really good friends.

00:14:26.34
Mike
Sure.

00:14:26.97
Bill
I mean, there is, you know, knowing that you can trust somebody um is a true form of of intimacy.

00:14:30.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:32.52
Bill
So, yeah, that's a...

00:14:32.93
Mike
Absolutely.

00:14:34.02
Bill
that's a great point, you know, and that, that is the problem though, is that, and I don't know if it's, if it's different than, um, you know, with the younger generation now, but, um, I mean, I know that I, I wasn't, um, and I don't blame it on like mom and and my dad or anything like that, but nobody sat down with me and talked to me about sex and how to deal with relationships and things like that, you know?

00:14:57.09
Bill
Um,

00:14:57.32
Mike
Probably because they didn't know.

00:14:59.00
Bill
Yeah, but I mean, you you made a good point a few minutes ago saying that, you know, that you saw how people were. So that's how that's how you acted, you know, and that's how that's how shit was.

00:15:04.92
Mike
Hmm. Sure.

00:15:08.06
Bill
And, um you know, a in part of it, I mean, my head was all fucked up to begin with and alcoholic tendencies and then becoming an alcoholic full blown and all that stuff. I mean, none of that, all of that outside stuff that that symptomatic stuff, you know, that that you're adding on top of it, fuel to the fire.

00:15:23.61
Bill
Right.

00:15:24.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:15:24.46
Bill
um You know, but I I never I never did anything. ever to work on myself until was 41 years old and was dragged into these fucking rooms.

00:15:37.22
Mike
bastards.

00:15:37.26
Bill
I don't mean these fucking rooms. I don't mean that in a bad way.

00:15:40.20
Mike
Right.

00:15:42.27
Bill
I never did any work on myself ever.

00:15:45.39
Mike
Right. Well, no, why would you? Why, why mess with perfection?

00:15:51.97
Mike
thank you

00:15:52.57
Bill
Why mess with the the arrogance that was me and the, hey, um um I'm fine. you're You're all fucked up over there.

00:15:58.15
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Everybody else is all fucked up, but I'm dumb. Fucking wonderful.

00:16:04.12
Bill
and And then the the other part of the reading, obviously learning from our past. Yes, we know that. But um so one of the first lines in there was and that might have been the opening line about learning um is a lifelong adventure.

00:16:16.66
Bill
um And you said you'd want to stay anonymous with that statement, which made me laugh, but I wasn't sure which exactly what you meant by that.

00:16:17.22
Mike
You

00:16:24.45
Bill
So expand.

00:16:27.50
Mike
um you know, what yeah, whatever. um yeah the The phrasing of it, it's a lifelong adventure.

00:16:31.56
Bill
Hmm.

00:16:32.62
Mike
It's a goddamn poster with a cat hanging on it or something.

00:16:35.13
Bill
oh Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point.

00:16:36.53
Mike
Yeah, that's all. Yeah. You know, no, this the sentiment is is fine. and And I agree with it.

00:16:40.84
Bill
Right.

00:16:41.97
Mike
It's just the way it was phrased was, you know, whatever, man.

00:16:44.95
Bill
No, and that's ah that's a good point. Yeah, I, it's... See, ah once again, back to dating apps, and you and I have talked about when people refer to themselves as educated, um and i'm seeing I'm seeing more lately people will say, or, you know, i'm I'm highly educated.

00:16:53.13
Mike
ah

00:16:58.37
Bill
I'm just like, fuck, man.

00:16:58.42
Mike
o Right.

00:16:59.80
Bill
What? I mean, again, you know, it's fine. You know, just... I don't even know. it Does somebody that think it's arrogant for them to say, i went I went to four years of school? Maybe it took you five. I went to this university. is that's is Does somebody think that that's more arrogant than saying I'm highly educated?

00:17:18.50
Bill
And exactly what do you know? I want to sit down. I want to match with one of these people, but that would just be being a dick.

00:17:21.33
Mike
ah her

00:17:23.92
Bill
I don't want to be a dick these days.

00:17:24.44
Mike
Right.

00:17:26.01
Bill
in In another world and in another life, I'd love to match with some of these people, be able to sit down with Ember Coffee and say, okay, you're highly educated.

00:17:31.58
Mike
Mm

00:17:33.37
Bill
out Let's touch on that. um

00:17:34.98
Mike
hmm.

00:17:35.90
Bill
Explain.

00:17:37.23
Mike
Right.

00:17:37.93
Bill
It just sit back and go fucking wow me.

00:17:38.17
Mike
Mm

00:17:41.19
Bill
how How fucking smart are you?

00:17:41.31
Mike
hmm.

00:17:43.20
Bill
And I mean, whatever, even if you're, even if you're talking about something over my head, don't give a fuck.

00:17:43.58
Mike
Right.

00:17:47.36
Bill
Cause it's probably something I don't care about, or I don't want to sit there and learn more about at the moment. Maybe I do, you know, maybe you can teach me something, but so you're highly educated.

00:17:51.99
Mike
hmm.

00:17:54.21
Mike
Right.

00:17:56.62
Mike
a

00:17:56.91
Bill
work but Again, what does it fucking mean? It's a lifelong journey though.

00:17:59.54
Mike
I don't know. Sure.

00:18:01.67
Bill
Oh, I'm sorry.

00:18:01.77
Mike
Yes.

00:18:02.26
Bill
Lifelong adventure.

00:18:02.31
Mike
sure

00:18:05.11
Mike
yes

00:18:07.08
Bill
So what else? What else on the, the read again?

00:18:11.26
Mike
Um, I don't know. Uh, yeah. You know, uh, well, no, one of the things I liked is, you know, um, figuring out how we got so lost in the first place is, is, you know, for me, um Yeah, highly, highly useful, all you know, so I don't get lost again.

00:18:31.37
Bill
Right.

00:18:33.95
Mike
oh you know, the behaviors and the the attitudes and and and all of that that took me that they got me lost. They got me, you know, standing at the fucking door of the Keating Center going, i don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

00:18:47.46
Mike
um

00:18:49.14
Bill
right

00:18:50.05
Mike
Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, thankfully I kind of, I'm not lost today. i know where I'm at and it's, it's a wonderful feeling, but yeah, you know, but I learned that by working the program, working the steps, using, you know, the people around me and their stories and their experiences as well as my own. And, and yeah, you know, finding out.

00:19:11.22
Mike
how I got lost. And so I don't go back there and and be lost again. Cause I, I don't want to, I like, I like where I'm at today. you know, I, like you know, I'm sometimes, you know, you ask the question, what about sobriety?

00:19:20.50
Bill
Right.

00:19:25.42
Mike
You know, it was bad for you whatever. I mean, you know, dead you know, there's there's shit that I can't tolerate that I used to tolerate. Um, and you know, sometimes that makes life a little more difficult.

00:19:38.24
Mike
Um, but again i wouldn't go back um there's things that i just won't tolerate today from people and places and things. and all And I don't.

00:19:49.05
Mike
And occasionally, you know, it makes it a little makes it a little tougher because I got to work a little harder and I got to stick to my guns and I got to have a fucking backbone and, you know, all that shit that I didn't have for a very long time.

00:19:49.19
Bill
right

00:20:00.55
Mike
all But again, i wouldn't give it away. I'm grateful for, you know, knowing where I'm at and and and not being lost today.

00:20:10.00
Bill
Right. You know, and that's a, that's a good point too, because, um, I mean, the, the, the old saying, and you know, the, we, we kind of, I know I do a lot. I lean on some of these old or old sayings or common sayings of, you know, we didn't say it's going to be easy. We said, it's going to be worth it, you know?

00:20:25.46
Mike
Yeah.

00:20:25.77
Bill
um And it is. And even though, and we've been very open about this, that um I think both you and I feel, and we've been, you know, we've talked about it, that we don't feel that we have to work as hard um anymore, like today, at least, you know, to to maintain what we have as we did

00:20:41.28
Mike
Right.

00:20:45.04
Bill
even five years ago or certainly 10 years ago or certainly, you know, 15 years ago, because 15 years ago, fuck man, what is it?

00:20:47.87
Mike
Right. Right.

00:20:52.28
Bill
May 2nd?

00:20:53.28
Mike
Right.

00:20:54.70
Bill
I mean, you know, just I was.

00:20:56.16
Mike
Yeah, right. Oh, yeah.

00:20:57.04
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:20:57.89
Mike
I've been in the Keating Center, what, maybe five days at that point.

00:21:00.86
Bill
Yeah. And I would have been there, what, seven, you know eight or nine, whatever the case was.

00:21:04.76
Mike
Right. Right.

00:21:06.00
Bill
Oh, yeah. I was I was fixed. Fucking good.

00:21:09.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:09.65
Bill
Living my best life after nine days.

00:21:10.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:13.89
Bill
But, um you know, but the the point is, is that I think what, you know, maybe what we don't talk about, what we do, you know, but that all the work that went into it and still the continuous work, the maintenance.

00:21:24.37
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:21:24.81
Bill
Once again, your favorite saying from the big book, right?

00:21:26.33
Mike
Yep.

00:21:26.85
Bill
Right. um You know, that that that daily reprieve, which is which is based in contingent on the maintenance of our of our spiritual, spiritual.

00:21:27.33
Mike
Yep.

00:21:35.36
Bill
Why can't I think of the word?

00:21:35.57
Mike
Condition.

00:21:36.39
Bill
God damn. Wow. almost said spiritual connection. I'm like, that's not right. Yeah.

00:21:41.05
Mike
It's a C word. Sure.

00:21:42.41
Bill
that That it is. um But yeah, it is. It's all about maintaining it. And I mean, you know we know people that, yeah I can skip the reading today. I can skip my prayers.

00:21:51.86
Mike
sure

00:21:53.52
Bill
I can skip this. Somebody called me and you know wanted some help and I just don't feel like doing it. And whatever the case is, it' sooner or later, it's going to obviously, it's going to catch up.

00:22:01.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:01.77
Bill
And i think we...

00:22:02.52
Mike
There's a podcast to do and I really don't want to fucking do it.

00:22:06.59
Bill
Right. Right. You know, but, but the, the other thing too, and I was serious, I'm like, if you didn't want to do it because it's so fun, if you, I mean, if you didn't want to do it, then this is no fun.

00:22:13.77
Mike
you

00:22:14.33
Bill
But um cause I mean, that, that's why we do this.

00:22:14.80
Mike
Right.

00:22:16.88
Bill
We do it for, you know, obviously for others, but we, we've been very open about that. If if this isn't funny anymore, we're not going to fucking do it. You know?

00:22:23.35
Mike
Right.

00:22:23.94
Bill
And I didn't, I didn't mean like, let's just never do the podcast again.

00:22:27.58
Mike
I know.

00:22:28.92
Bill
You know, just like if you don't want to fucking do it tonight, I mean, I would have I could have gone to bed early, get up early, go, you know, do whatever I got to do.

00:22:33.23
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:34.69
Bill
But yeah, if you got plans, I mean, I get it. You know, um I was just.

00:22:36.83
Mike
Right. And it's just, and again, it's, it does come back to, no, this is a fucking commitment that I made and and I don't give a fuck how I feel.

00:22:44.03
Bill
Right. Right.

00:22:45.78
Mike
And no, I don't want to do it, but yeah, here we are doing it Yay.

00:22:49.66
Bill
Right. Well, and hopefully just under 23 minutes in, i don't know, maybe, I'm not going to speak for you, but maybe ah you start to feel a little bit better after 25 minutes.

00:23:01.04
Bill
It's a couple minutes to go.

00:23:01.68
Mike
sure oh wait let me hang on okay oh okay it's coming

00:23:02.49
Bill
not saying yet. but Not yet. It's coming.

00:23:08.15
Bill
it's It's on its way. It's

00:23:09.57
Mike
ah okay yeah

00:23:10.78
Bill
it's that It's not a 25. It's at an hour 25, whichever one everyone comes second or last or first or whatever.

00:23:17.43
Mike
okay

00:23:17.50
Bill
But um so, no, but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, it it is. It's a matter of, um you know, we we need to. You're right. I mean, its it is the commitment. It's keeping our, you know, the structure.

00:23:26.91
Mike
yeah

00:23:27.95
Bill
It's it's everything. Um, 100% everything. And, um, I don't know. I mean, I can't, I was just trying to think about the, um, the last time that, um, and he anything, well, the the only thing that ever I, and I don't want to say interrupted.

00:23:41.91
Bill
it's It's such a bad way to put it, but I mean, mom died and, it you know, sort of interrupted my morning routine, but it didn't, I didn't let it, you know?

00:23:45.92
Mike
Yeah. the Right. Right. Yeah.

00:23:49.96
Bill
Um, and that may seem a little cold, but I'm like, fuck no, man, I need to, I have to do this, you know?

00:23:53.50
Mike
Well, yeah, absolutely. yeah but Yeah. That's exactly when you should be doing it.

00:23:58.06
Bill
Right.

00:23:58.42
Mike
You know, I mean, yeah, clearly every day and it should be doing it always. But yeah, when the shit hits the fan, damn right. Especially then.

00:24:07.68
Bill
Right. Yeah. I, I did not want to go out and, and I don't even remember. I was, like I said, I had to, I ran over the facility she was at and had to go to her house and did some grocery shopping and all this different stuff.

00:24:17.31
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:19.55
Bill
I, when I left the house, i think I was gone for, I don't know, six hours. And, and I'm trying, I remember at the time trying to account for six hours. What the fuck did I do for six hours?

00:24:30.54
Bill
I know what I did.

00:24:30.90
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:24:31.87
Bill
i didn't, you know, I wasn't just sitting someplace like going, ah but um yeah, it was just, I mean, it walking around the fucking cloud or driving around in a cloud for six goddamn hours, you know?

00:24:35.50
Mike
Right.

00:24:41.64
Mike
Well.

00:24:42.23
Bill
um But you I got, I got the shit done. I had to get done because that's, that's what, that's what we need to do. Right.

00:24:47.20
Mike
v Yeah, absolutely. Keep those feet moving.

00:24:49.76
Bill
Yeah. So, yeah. And like you said, I'm glad you said that too, especially, especially at those, at those times. So what else? Anything in the reading that kind of caught your eye attention? Anything?

00:25:04.28
Mike
No. yeah

00:25:08.20
Bill
All right. All right.

00:25:09.24
Mike
No, I think we hit the points that, that yeah, that I jumped out at me. So there we go.

00:25:15.67
Bill
Yeah, exactly. So why i again, I know say it all time, but that keep it simple reading was really good.

00:25:22.00
Mike
right right

00:25:24.12
Bill
Yeah. so oh Once again, that's how much I fucking pay attention, but, uh, oh, so, um, well, I mean, I, I wrote, I had a couple of, uh, kind of thoughts from over the weekend because, uh, yeah, we had an opportunity.

00:25:34.50
Bill
I've been out in Cleveland all week and, uh, um, we had an opportunity to get together with some friends. It was our, you know, Mike's anniversary was obviously, we know, last Tuesday, my previous Friday.

00:25:43.24
Mike
me

00:25:44.70
Bill
ah but we've, we've done it, you know, again, with the exception of pandemic years, as we know, but, um, yeah, every year, i mean, obviously when I was here, but every year we get together for anniversaries and, um,

00:25:48.60
Mike
right

00:25:54.31
Bill
Last year we went to the casino, year before I don't know what we did. This year ended up some of the friends, our sober friends, came over to play cards at at the house here.

00:26:00.35
Mike
Yep.

00:26:02.77
Bill
And it was it was a lot of fun.

00:26:02.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:26:05.21
Mike
It was.

00:26:06.07
Bill
It's a small group, you know, small group. But we had food and, you know, fucking, what were we listening to? Yacht Rock. Yeah, we were listening to, which I know is not your first choice.

00:26:12.39
Mike
Ah, yes.

00:26:16.71
Bill
But, you know, again, compromise, right?

00:26:17.10
Mike
No.

00:26:19.27
Bill
But, all right.

00:26:19.54
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. no Others. Exactly. Right, yeah. There was a request from the crowd, and so I acquiesced.

00:26:27.77
Bill
But yeah, there was, so I mean, every, we knew all the goddamn songs. I mean, everyone sitting at that table knew the goddamn songs.

00:26:31.03
Mike
Of course.

00:26:33.25
Bill
And then just a couple of them came up and it was just, it was fucking funny. And I don't know. It was, it was a good time.

00:26:40.75
Bill
And yeah, you in angel one, right?

00:26:42.66
Mike
Yes, Angel one, I came in second.

00:26:43.45
Bill
Yeah. So, Yeah. And, you know, here's the funny part. So um how and we play, we play Texas hold them one dealer, this and that. And usually it's some sometimes it's been two tables and then we narrow down and blah, blah, blah.

00:26:55.23
Mike
Right.

00:26:55.93
Bill
And we get down to, you know, or three people, you know, third person gets knocked out and then it's just one and two. Cause one of the guys there that was a Igor, he was saying that they sometimes play for number one too.

00:27:06.73
Mike
Right.

00:27:07.23
Bill
But I mean, I could see that going on for fucking ever, but I understand his point, you know, but yeah,

00:27:09.40
Mike
Sure. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. sure

00:27:12.71
Bill
Um, but the, the whole thing was, is that, uh, angel, um, it was so funny. What was it? I mean, a couple hours before then, I mean, she was, she went all in with like, I don't know, a dollar 75 or something, you know, and it's all, it's only a $15 buy-in or usually what's 20, but this time we did 15.

00:27:23.33
Mike
yeah it

00:27:27.99
Mike
right

00:27:29.06
Bill
So we're not playing with big money. Um, but she was, she was fucking done and she won.

00:27:30.82
Mike
yeah

00:27:33.64
Mike
Yep.

00:27:35.43
Bill
Um, she won her part of the split pot, I think on that one, and then just fucking built her empire and won.

00:27:39.52
Mike
Yes. Yep.

00:27:43.64
Bill
Literally, it ah after a while, I'm not paying attention. I'm doing whatever. I'm eating some shit. then whatever' like I'm like, Jesus Christ. What the fuck is going on over there?

00:27:53.57
Mike
exist

00:27:55.08
Bill
But um no, it's it's always a lot of fun. And, um you know, I mean, you don't necessarily have to be the best poker player in the world. It's just ah just fun, you know, getting together with people, right?

00:28:02.74
Mike
yeah Yeah, exactly. That's, yeah. I mean, i'm I'm clearly not the best poker player in the world, but yeah, you know, it's fun. Just hanging out.

00:28:13.58
Bill
Well, and I think that we've all gotten, least since I started playing, since I started coming around, I've noticed people, including by mainly me, you know, just getting more patient with it, realizing that, you know, that it's, ah you don't have to, you don't have bet every time you can fold, you can do whatever.

00:28:21.24
Mike
the

00:28:27.60
Mike
Right.

00:28:28.71
Bill
Because the, the first time I played, was it a Michael and Megan's apartment over on a cliff?

00:28:33.54
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:28:35.05
Bill
Was it Clifton?

00:28:36.00
Mike
Yeah, it was, yeah, over there, the little Italian, the west side, little Italian neighborhood.

00:28:42.39
Bill
Yeah, which was, yeah, they had that that upstairs apartment up there, which was was nice.

00:28:43.05
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:45.40
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:28:46.55
Bill
But I mean, I had never, I hadn't played poker in fucking years. I knew how to play. um You know, I didn't forget. But um I mean, my mindset was it's fucking $15. What do I care, man?

00:28:57.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:57.19
Bill
I'm betting, betting this, that I was out. I was out in like 35 minutes.

00:29:00.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:29:02.62
Mike
yeah

00:29:03.35
Bill
and And I'm just like, wow, okay. Yeah.

00:29:06.86
Mike
Sure. Uh-huh.

00:29:08.27
Bill
um i I know for a fact that you and I drove together. so I mean, I wouldn't have left anyhow because it was, you know, for me just kind of hanging out. But I learned after that. And I can, I've won, i think I've won money twice, maybe.

00:29:20.43
Bill
um in the But I mean, I don't play every time. But yeah, I've just, I've learned some, I imagine that.

00:29:23.33
Mike
sure

00:29:26.54
Bill
I've learned patience even with that, not to fucking blow my blow my load, you know, completely and literally right off the bat and just be sitting there going, wow, this is fucking fun.

00:29:28.19
Mike
if

00:29:31.72
Mike
ah her

00:29:37.08
Mike
Right.

00:29:38.72
Bill
but um so yeah then went to went to your meeting went to your home group on sunday which is nice um and that was that was nice too because there was you and me and then uh sean uh who's been part of your group for he's been going to puritist i mean as long not as long as you have correct

00:29:47.37
Mike
Right.

00:29:52.81
Mike
No, no, no, no. I'm um'm the old man there now.

00:29:56.30
Bill
oh that's right yeah you're the you're the the longest tenured member correct

00:29:57.54
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:00.10
Mike
Uh-huh. Correct. Yes. um But, yeah, no, Sean's been, well, pre-pandemic, so probably six, maybe seven years, something like that.

00:30:10.84
Bill
Yeah, and he's ah he's a good guy. I mean, i and I enjoy seeing him every time.

00:30:12.90
Mike
yeah yeah, absolutely.

00:30:15.00
Bill
And then, um what was the other dude, the secretary? I can never remember.

00:30:18.22
Mike
Andrew.

00:30:18.87
Bill
Andrew. like Andrew.

00:30:19.81
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:20.37
Bill
Andrew's another one.

00:30:20.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:21.01
Bill
You know, just throw shoot the shit with those guys.

00:30:21.28
Mike
Yeah, me too.

00:30:23.38
Bill
but um But yeah, it was when they announced, and you know anyone, obviously, with you know years of of sobriety, whatever, and...

00:30:29.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:29.80
Bill
yeah Me, Sean, and Mike were sitting back there in the same area. So it's like, yeah, you looked at me and you're like, well, I guess we'll go in order.

00:30:34.26
Mike
Right.

00:30:36.79
Bill
So I went first, then you and Sean.

00:30:37.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:30:38.90
Bill
But it's like 15, 15, and 17.

00:30:38.99
Mike
Right.

00:30:40.76
Bill
Because, yeah, Sean's got a couple years on us.

00:30:41.48
Mike
Yep.

00:30:43.50
Bill
And his, when's his anniversary?

00:30:43.91
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:30:45.49
Bill
26th?

00:30:46.16
Mike
Six.

00:30:47.04
Bill
Okay.

00:30:47.16
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:47.99
Bill
um But it was just, it was kind of cool because, you know, you think about, I mean, once again, I mean, we've we've said this before coming up to this and even in the years past. it's a lot of time, but it's not.

00:30:57.84
Mike
Right.

00:30:57.85
Bill
But when you sit there and I mean, it was just it's kind of mind blowing. Just three normal fucking guys there. I mean, that that's so that's 47 years.

00:31:02.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:05.73
Mike
Right?

00:31:06.52
Bill
You know, I mean, sitting at sitting at a fucking table.

00:31:08.96
Mike
Yeah?

00:31:09.70
Bill
I mean, that when I thought about that, when there was when by the time Sean went, I'm like, I'm like, Jesus Christ, that's a lot. I mean, all of us, um it was almost like not even almost.

00:31:14.90
Mike
mr Yeah.

00:31:18.33
Bill
It was humbling, you know. But, you know, the same point, right? I mean, we're there. Obviously, it's it's nice to have the look at me moment. But like you said last week, right? Showing other people that it could be done.

00:31:28.38
Mike
Yeah. Right. Scumbag like me can do it. Anybody can do it.

00:31:33.50
Bill
Yeah, and there are, i think there's there's a decent number of, you know, new-ish people, I think, or, you know, at that at that meeting, right?

00:31:38.74
Mike
Oh, yeah. Always. Oh, yeah. Mm

00:31:43.37
Bill
Yeah. And then a couple of people that, um you know, that I hadn't seen in a while, like the one guy, i mean, I didn't really was getting a paper signed. I'm like, that two of us around when we first got sober.

00:31:52.38
Mike
hmm. Mm

00:31:53.49
Bill
So, but again, I mean, you know, no, no bad examples, but um obviously he's, he's bounced around a little bit, but um the lead was good. You had a, the person who is now going to be your secretary, the, you know, the um female, ah she was the um chairperson, you know, so she had the leads and then her, this was her last lead for the month.

00:32:06.16
Mike
hmm. Chairperson, yep.

00:32:13.04
Bill
And she, the, the person who was up there, the person she got to leave, was she 31, 32, something like that, had been sober for, I think six, no, nine years.

00:32:17.74
Mike
like that.

00:32:21.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:22.46
Bill
Nine. So yeah, I got sober young. I think I had a decent story, engaging enough lead.

00:32:27.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:27.78
Bill
um Didn't run on about anything too long because, you know, Mike and I hate that with any of these fucking leads, but interesting.

00:32:31.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:34.39
Bill
But then, um you know, going around at the end of these meetings, I don't know if it's all meetings all over the place, but in most cases, you know, obviously that the Lord's Prayer is said or whatever. And the way it's usually started off is somebody like who keeps us sober or whatever.

00:32:43.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:47.68
Mike
Right.

00:32:47.70
Bill
And then she said, you remember what she said?

00:32:51.04
Mike
No, i don't I don't. Yeah, I know it was something clever.

00:32:54.83
Bill
Yeah. She said, who's the boss that keeps us off the sauce.

00:32:58.57
Mike
That's right.

00:33:01.44
Bill
And, um, I can't, neither one of us are God guys, but I fucking laughed. And I, I immediately after were done with that, I made a note on my, on my sheet here.

00:33:05.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:33:09.75
Bill
Cause like, I got to mention that, that, that fucking made me laugh. It just made me fucking laugh. But yeah, she was, she was kind of a trip, but I don't know. It was a, it was a good weekend. And, uh, you know, this week has just been, well, you haven't had the greatest, the greatest work week, but, uh,

00:33:21.32
Mike
It is. Uh-huh.

00:33:24.04
Bill
You know, hey, it's it's it's been relatively uneventful. I know you've had some, again, long nights at work, but, you know, kind of is what it is.

00:33:29.88
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:33:31.30
Bill
Right.

00:33:31.96
Mike
it is

00:33:33.75
Bill
But, um yeah, so, you know, the the thing that we didn't mention last week, and I don't know if this I don't know if this is anything that I don't necessarily have a conversation about, but obviously the pope died.

00:33:43.66
Mike
ahha

00:33:44.56
Bill
So again, I don't know if there's, that's a conversation piece. I don't know that either one of us have a, have ah anything to say about it, but, um, you know, just, I mean, he, when he was sick, I don't know whatever it was a few months ago.

00:33:48.26
Mike
purple

00:33:54.65
Bill
I mean, it's just at that point, I mean, I just based on articles I read, I'm like, I thought the dude was going to be dead like six months ago, you know?

00:34:00.89
Mike
Sure.

00:34:01.93
Bill
But, um, yeah, so Pope died. Now they're doing the, uh, what is it called? Con conclave.

00:34:06.25
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:06.51
Bill
So, okay.

00:34:07.07
Mike
Something like that.

00:34:07.39
Bill
Okay.

00:34:08.13
Mike
i don't know, man. haven't been Catholic for a real long time.

00:34:10.30
Bill
hang it Yeah, only thing, I know nothing about it until ah until a pope passes away, and then they end up end up talking about it.

00:34:16.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:34:17.99
Bill
You read some articles that talk about it on the morning show that I listen to, so I you know i get bits and pieces of there. but set Like I said, I didn't know that that was, I had no so inkling that that was going to be any sort of a conversation piece, but um I just had i had that written down, so...

00:34:33.56
Mike
All right. No, it's not.

00:34:36.73
Bill
I didn't think so either.

00:34:37.73
Mike
Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.

00:34:39.07
Bill
All right. um One, actually one, one last thing from the, from the meeting. Cause she talked about this. This is when I said, I was going to ask you a question. I said, I wrote it down for the podcast.

00:34:47.56
Mike
yeah

00:34:49.04
Bill
This was the, the, the new secretary, the person we were just talking about, who was the ah chairperson. um So my question to you, Mike, is she brought it up and she had one at the meeting. Have you ever been tased?

00:35:01.12
Bill
Yeah.

00:35:01.78
Mike
All right.

00:35:03.60
Bill
yeah

00:35:04.15
Mike
ah No, I have not.

00:35:06.16
Bill
Really? Okay. I just said that's, I've, that's, that's no, it's just that what I was trying to think of.

00:35:09.23
Mike
i Go ahead.

00:35:14.51
Bill
I'm like, you told me that story when you were basically in the system, but not on paper in the system that one time.

00:35:21.67
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:35:21.88
Bill
And I remember you said that, yeah, the cops tuned you up a little bit.

00:35:22.11
Mike
would When they put me in the chair.

00:35:25.67
Bill
And I'm like, I'm like, did, I'm like, did he say that he got tased?

00:35:26.02
Mike
Yeah, they did.

00:35:29.11
Bill
I'm like, I don't fucking remember.

00:35:29.47
Mike
No.

00:35:30.78
Bill
It literally, it was one of those, like, I mean, I was about to ask you to be, I'm like, ah, fuck this man. This is a, This is a podcast topic. i can't I can't talk about getting tased and not have it be on fucking recording.

00:35:42.61
Bill
um

00:35:42.65
Mike
Right.

00:35:43.67
Bill
So you have never. okay I mean, i I never have either, but I don't know.

00:35:45.67
Mike
I have not.

00:35:50.12
Bill
A couple of the guys were talking about that. They said some people would just fucking take it like it's no big deal, which I don't understand.

00:35:54.55
Mike
oh yeah.

00:35:55.26
Bill
Really?

00:35:55.53
Mike
Well, you have the right amount chemicals in you, and yeah, you know, it doesn't affect you. Uh-huh.

00:36:00.60
Bill
Really?

00:36:02.09
Mike
Yeah, well, I mean, you're on, like, PCP and shit. You're just fucking going. it Yeah. Yeah.

00:36:08.80
Bill
Yeah, I don't know. And i'd never I've never been around somebody. I've never been in a group or something like that. I mean, you hear about it at concerts. and you know um Well, I guess I've never been in a protest or anything like that, probably where people might get tased. Or you know I've never been in a group arrest or I've never ah you know tried to loot or anything like that.

00:36:28.38
Bill
These are all yets. I mean, they're you know it's ah just I haven't done any of that yet.

00:36:29.96
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:36:31.84
Bill
you know but

00:36:32.15
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:33.61
Bill
But yeah, I don't know.

00:36:33.86
Mike
No, no, never been in a position that, you know, I mean, I, do other than that one time, I'm usually pretty, you know, fucking idiots with guns. I'm not going to argue with him too much.

00:36:45.87
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, you know, the like when I get when I get picked up for underage drinking and I and I know I talked about this before, but, you know, I'm 17 years old. I'm fucking lit up and, um you know, I'm just fucking mouthing off to this. There's a male and a female cop and, you know, mouthing off to both of them.

00:36:59.92
Bill
And, you know, the the cop let me know what was, you know, who was boss when he put the handcuffs on. I mean, he's he's heightened those fuckers right up. um You know, unnecessary, but necessary, of course. um I wasn't going anywhere, but he he made goddamn sure I was, I knew I had handcuffs on me.

00:37:16.30
Bill
And, you know, same thing when I got when i got arrested at the bar that that night when but Pam was sick. And, you know I'm in that fucking cop's face telling him to hit me. I'm like, Jesus Christ. Because I remember all this stuff that's in a haze, you know.

00:37:28.42
Mike
Right.

00:37:28.44
Bill
And same thing, I'm just, I don't remember if there was anyone else in the jail that night.

00:37:32.84
Mike
Hmm.

00:37:32.84
Bill
I mean, I could have got the fucking shit beat out of me, you know.

00:37:35.29
Mike
Sure.

00:37:36.13
Bill
And, uh, I'm, he was big, he's a big dude too, you know?

00:37:39.32
Mike
Right.

00:37:40.15
Bill
So yeah, like, well, you just said, you know, fucking idiots with guns. I mean, I, you kind of keep your cool.

00:37:43.98
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:45.08
Bill
I never, that never even crossed my mind. I'm like, oh yeah, dude's got a gun.

00:37:47.39
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:48.39
Bill
He might shoot me these days.

00:37:49.28
Mike
Right.

00:37:49.75
Bill
Yes. Yeah.

00:37:51.05
Mike
C minus high school students that weren't good enough at football.

00:37:58.36
Bill
Wow.

00:37:59.67
Mike
Thank you.

00:38:00.73
Bill
But even, I mean, shit, even now, I mean, when I, you know, you just, yeah you see people.

00:38:00.98
Mike
Right.

00:38:04.63
Bill
I told Derek that when he first got his license, that I realized a lot of the, lot of things happen. It's a minority thing and minorities in some cases, but not always, you know, you get some fucking wild ass cop.

00:38:13.07
Mike
well

00:38:14.48
Bill
It doesn't matter whether, you know, what color you are, what race, what, you know.

00:38:17.57
Mike
right

00:38:18.16
Bill
Male, female, whatever, you know, some guy or lady, you know, gets a hair up their ass. You know, and I sit, I put, and I never, I never have, well, not never, but I'm i'm not ah a 10 and 2 type person all the time.

00:38:31.71
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:38:32.07
Bill
You know, but my registration's always in the glove box. I don't reach for anything until the cop comes up and I ask if I if i could do that.

00:38:34.45
Mike
Right. No. Yeah. Right.

00:38:37.91
Bill
um You know, and it's in my glove box. Can I do that? I have my hands on the steering wheel or on my, you know, I'm like, I'm not fucking around.

00:38:41.90
Mike
Nope.

00:38:44.33
Bill
You know, I mean, I just, yeah, I mean, I just...

00:38:44.59
Mike
and Absolutely not. Yeah. I don't want to get shot. Yeah.

00:38:50.96
Bill
yeah I mean, I'm, I'm not even doing it at the times I was doing something. I'm saying that would, would have deserved to get shot, but you know, it's less likely I'm doing something today that, that where I should be shot versus, you know, maybe 20 years ago, but still I'm like, I, yeah I don't, don't to fuck her around with this shit, you know?

00:39:04.79
Mike
Right.

00:39:09.37
Bill
So anyhow, um, I don't know. I, I, I apologize. I don't mean that, uh, I apologize for that surprising me that, uh, that you've never been tased, but I just,

00:39:15.05
Mike
a Well, yeah, again, there's a lot of things I should have had happen to me that didn't. So, yeah, that that would be one of them.

00:39:22.41
Bill
Yeah. Well, and that's a, that, that's a good point. I, that's, that's a good, that's a good way to put it, but um yeah, I don't know. I would supposed out of all, all the friends that know that you might've been the one that got it.

00:39:32.49
Bill
So.

00:39:32.83
Mike
Ah.

00:39:33.98
Bill
yeah All right, so one quick one before we take a break here. This is from Keep It Simple. um Today, I'll think about why about why it's my fate to be in recovery, okay?

00:39:46.47
Mike
a

00:39:47.17
Bill
So I wrote this down for a reason because my question for you is, do you consider it fate that you ended up in recovery?

00:39:55.90
Mike
Absolutely not.

00:39:57.25
Bill
Okay, well, and that that was my thought, but I wanted to you know kind of get the why behind that, you know get your get your why you're feeling and um that sort of thing behind it.

00:40:02.27
Mike
Right.

00:40:05.17
Mike
No, my fate is I should be dead. That's my fate.

00:40:09.78
Bill
Right.

00:40:10.77
Mike
Yeah, I cheated it. Yeah, by getting sober. ah No, my fate was, no, clearly not. My fate was, you know, my actions and my thoughts and all of that like led me to the grave.

00:40:24.01
Mike
um

00:40:24.02
Bill
right

00:40:24.90
Mike
You know, I got, I don't know, lucky maybe. You know, again, moment of clarity. You know, I woke up. You know, i I looked around and went, Oh, you know, back to the to the original reading, I was lost and didn't want to be anymore.

00:40:41.53
Mike
So I stopped being lost and started asking for some corrections.

00:40:46.00
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I don't, ah I don't know. I'm trying to think of anything that, I mean, I think things happen, you know, people come into our lives. We've talked about that. You know, I, weird shit happens. It's maybe unexplainable people come into our lives at the right time.

00:41:01.83
Bill
um i don't know. I mean, do it, I don't know if I believe in, in fate. I can't really look at anything and say, you know, this was fate or that, that sort of thing. And, um, I even down to the point of, you know, there, um, I don't know what a soulmate, you know, um, and that's, that's hard to think, but, you know, and cause I take a look at, you know, people like, like you and Chris, I mean, you get, you've been together for what, three, four years now.

00:41:23.56
Bill
Is that a couple of weeks, you know, couple of three, four weeks.

00:41:23.97
Mike
Right, yeah, exactly. A couple weeks. its Right, yeah. That'll be nine years in August.

00:41:32.23
Bill
Yeah, I know. And, up and well, she knows, I think this, and you know, I think this, I think she's fucking wonderful. I love her to death. um You know, was it, was it fate that you guys ended up together?

00:41:43.36
Bill
Is it, is it destiny?

00:41:43.63
Mike
Hmm.

00:41:44.72
Bill
Are you soulmates? I mean, anything like that. It's just, if you're, if you're in a deep and committed relationship where you're, you're right for somebody, does that mean that, you know, ah but that's, again, that's all meaning of life and all that stuff.

00:41:55.47
Bill
And, um you know, cause I look at, you know,

00:41:55.92
Mike
Yeah.

00:41:58.31
Bill
again, back to my, back to my ex-wives and back to, you know, Pam and Dawn, I've had other people in my life that I've loved, you know, and that I think were really good people for me.

00:42:05.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:07.20
Bill
um And could I meet somebody else in the same way? So does that mean that both of my wives, ah those were not the people they could have been if I wouldn't have fucked things up, you know?

00:42:15.01
Mike
Sure.

00:42:15.67
Bill
um So, I mean, I just don't know. I don't believe necessarily in, in fate and and all that shit. That's why, That's why I wrote that one down because I wanted to, you know, it's it's just today I'll think about why it's my fate to be in recovery.

00:42:27.92
Bill
And I'm like, really?

00:42:28.40
Mike
a seen spanish finish man

00:42:32.39
Bill
It's just, ah yeah, it didn't it didn't, I don't know, didn't jive with with my thought pattern. So, all right, well, good.

00:42:37.62
Mike
Exactly. not really neither.

00:42:40.52
Bill
Look at that. Here's one page. Here's the other. We're on the same page right now. And speaking of that, what do you think? Are are you ready for ah for a break? Take a breather? hey

00:42:51.61
Mike
Constantly. All right. We'll be back with more of whatever this is right after these words from our sponsors.

00:43:07.10
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And, um yeah, if I got nothing. I got nothing snappy. nothing

00:43:13.83
Mike
Yeah, here

00:43:14.58
Bill
Nothing snappy. nothing Nothing out of the ordinary. You kind of had a, you know, but just a kind of relaxed, laid back.

00:43:21.53
Mike
it is.

00:43:22.32
Bill
This is our fucking sponsors coming up. And, you know, so there it is.

00:43:24.39
Mike
yeah here it is

00:43:27.05
Bill
All right. So ah couple of things that that I wrote down, and I think these might be things that I wrote down this week or are relatively recently. This one kind of blew my mind. And obviously, it I know this would have been in the month of April.

00:43:39.45
Bill
Of course, that wasn't that long ago, earlier this week.

00:43:42.94
Mike
Right.

00:43:43.77
Bill
um But it said, and this is once again from Keep It Simple. And whatever the reading was about, obviously, the the entire month had sprinkled in stuff about the fourth step, understandably.

00:43:53.15
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:54.50
Bill
But it said the the end of it a part of it said, today I'll review my fourth step. Okay.

00:43:59.67
Mike
Mm-hmm. I remember that, sort of.

00:44:01.68
Bill
So here's my question. And I'm sure it was something like, if I haven't done it yet, I'll get at it, blah, blah, blah. um so both both you and I, well, okay, I'm not going to speak for you.

00:44:07.74
Mike
Right.

00:44:10.64
Bill
Mike, you did your fourth step, right?

00:44:12.34
Mike
I did.

00:44:13.76
Bill
Yeah, we talked about it. I know. I'm fucking around. um But did you save your fourth step?

00:44:19.18
Mike
No.

00:44:19.88
Bill
Okay. Okay. And that that was my that was my question. I'm like, how can, we we were told, and you know for anyone out there that that is not in 12-step recovery, the whole point of the four-step, if you want to do some research and get into it all, we'll just make it simple here.

00:44:36.54
Bill
Just writing down all the weird shit you did, all the fucked upness, all the how horrible a person you were, you put it down on paper, and then your fifth step is telling it to somebody and getting off your chest and blah. In this most simplest terms, right?

00:44:47.53
Bill
That about get it?

00:44:48.15
Mike
um Well, they by definition, it's an inventory. You find the good things and the bad things.

00:44:51.99
Bill
Yeah.

00:44:54.50
Bill
Right. But I mean, there's a lot of the, the nastiness that that we go through and how we are and right.

00:44:58.28
Mike
Well, yeah, there's a lot of the bad. yeah Clearly, we were pretty shitty people.

00:45:00.18
Bill
Right.

00:45:02.14
Mike
So, yeah, the bad is definitely going to outweigh the good, but the whole point of it is to sort that shit out so you know what to hang on to and what to let go of.

00:45:12.79
Bill
Right. And, you know, and like I said, with the with the 10 step um and i I miss that, I miss that concept with my four step and I miss that concept with my 10 step for years, you know, about looking at the good part of it.

00:45:22.70
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:45:24.57
Bill
I wasn't beating myself up, you know, with with any of it.

00:45:26.18
Mike
Right.

00:45:27.15
Bill
I just I missed that part of the concept. Um, but even if I would have put down, you know, the, the things I did right, the, the priest is the one that, um, you know, took all the shit that I, that I talked about and gave me very positive directions to it.

00:45:40.64
Bill
So, you know, he kind of added, I guess, the good back into my shit, which thank you, little priest.

00:45:40.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:45:45.16
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm, right?

00:45:48.35
Bill
Um, and he was, he was a little guy.

00:45:49.08
Mike
Yes.

00:45:49.55
Bill
I'm not trying, I'm not trying to belittle him.

00:45:50.89
Mike
me

00:45:51.35
Bill
He was a very little priest.

00:45:52.73
Mike
He was he's diminutive

00:45:55.08
Bill
Yes. But, dumb but yeah, but I mean, we're, we're told that you shouldn't just leave that line around because we've heard stories before, you know, the, a spouse or a friend or a family member, you know, finds that shit, whether they're looking forward or not.

00:46:03.54
Mike
Mm-hmm Right Mm-hmm Absolutely

00:46:09.26
Bill
And um you know, it can, it can cause problems. I mean, you're, you're, you're unloading shit on there that, you know, maybe that, I don't know. It's sensitive of nothing else. Right.

00:46:18.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:19.14
Bill
Um, I don't remember what I did with it. don't think people are like, burn the fucking thing, man. I'm like, I, I don't think I, I don't think I burned it.

00:46:23.02
Mike
Right.

00:46:26.43
Mike
Right. I know I didn't.

00:46:26.92
Bill
Although I, ah excuse say I smoked at the time. I had a lighter. I could have burned it, but um I think I probably just ripped it up into little shreds and you know just probably said the like like fucking confetti or whatever it was.

00:46:30.83
Mike
Sure.

00:46:36.67
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:46:39.56
Bill
um That just kind of surprised me. Review your fourth step. I'm just kind of like, hmm, okay. I can't because I don't i don't have it.

00:46:45.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:46:47.05
Bill
I kind of remember what what I talked about, but I'm not sitting back dwelling on the goddamn shit you know all these years later.

00:46:48.75
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:46:52.83
Bill
so Just a, yeah i don't know, just seemed like a weird a weird idea or concept for me, so

00:46:58.69
Mike
It did. Yeah, I remember reading that. Yeah, whatever. Within the last week or so. And i was just like, yeah, I don't think so because I don't have it.

00:47:08.45
Bill
Exactly. All right. So this is kind of, I didn't read this over now before I'm going to read it now. This is from touchstones. It looks like kind of a long one. It's four sentences long. So, um, a strange and mysterious, I'm sorry, a strange and intriguing mystery confronts us in the 12 steps.

00:47:26.57
Bill
We are mending our ways. We are becoming accountable. We are striving to do what's right. So we agree up to this point.

00:47:33.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:34.59
Bill
Yet we are learning to let go. This seems like a contradiction of logic, but it leads us to a spiritual awakening. So my question that I have in parentheses, do you feel like ah like it was a contradiction of logic when you first got sober?

00:47:49.93
Bill
um Because like they said there, it seems like you know you're you're mending your ways, becoming accountable, but yet letting go. Did you ever feel like that was contradictory at all? Yeah.

00:48:00.31
Mike
No, I mean, well, yeah brings us back to the fourth step. I mean, it's the whole point of taking that inventory. I just said it, you know, yeah, find the stuff that you want to hang on to and and and the crap that you got to get rid of.

00:48:12.86
Mike
And yeah that makes it's total sense. But yeah, that's what the fourth step is for is is finding the stuff to hang on to and becoming better and building on and and and letting go of the garbage.

00:48:25.78
Bill
Right.

00:48:26.58
Mike
Makes total sense.

00:48:26.70
Bill
Yeah. And it's just, yeah. And when, when I read that, and maybe it just, it it wasn't, it, I don't know if it confused me or I was looking at, I'm like, why would that be a contradiction? It it seemed like a, it didn't make sense to me why why, it would be looked at by as a contradiction.

00:48:41.31
Mike
Right.

00:48:41.40
Bill
um But, but I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying. It's, it is, it's the it's filtering out the, but what's good and what's bad and being able to decipher all of it. Right.

00:48:50.96
Mike
Right. Exactly. ah the hell are you going to know what to build on if you don't know what to build on?

00:48:58.63
Bill
Yeah, I mean, that's a that's a goddamn good point. Yeah. Well, in

00:49:02.15
Mike
And how do you know? Yeah, there's stuff that you need to stop doing and and get rid of. yeah Again, you've got to look at all that stuff. That's what the fourth step is for.

00:49:11.15
Bill
Right. So did, and again, I know I mentioned before that i that I never took a look at myself and it just made me think about it again with this, like things that you could work on and that sort of thing. In the times that, um I guess going back to the times that you that you entered and you know dabbled into you know sobriety and things like that, i know you said that you didn't do it, you know didn't commit completely and that sort of thing, but

00:49:30.75
Mike
hmm.

00:49:34.56
Mike
right

00:49:35.04
Bill
Um, it, the, let's say that the first time that you, that you did it, did you go in there with at least, uh, um, an open mind all where you're like, okay, I want to see what I could do to change. Or did you, was it the thought pattern of, you know, maybe what a lot of people think and, you know, that how to, how to drink better or, or drink normal.

00:49:51.66
Mike
right

00:49:53.27
Bill
I mean, I, I don't know. I'm asking.

00:49:55.44
Mike
right um i mean yeah that was that was the hope um but yeah no it was it was i didn't again i i gotta hate it but i didn't know what i didn't know um i you know i thought yeah I didn't realize that, you know, I missed the part, I mean, I'd read the big books several times before, and whatever, i apparently missed the part where alcohol and drugs were just a symptom, that there was, there was some fundamental shit wrong with me that I needed to fix, and, but again, you know, my

00:50:09.90
Bill
Right.

00:50:34.15
Mike
my attitude was, well, no, it's everybody else's problem. And, you know, I'm basically okay. It's all this other shit that's fucking me up. Right. Yeah. You know, no responsibility. no But again, I didn't know any better. So what the hell?

00:50:51.03
Mike
So clearly that didn't work. of

00:50:53.41
Bill
Right.

00:50:53.96
Mike
You know, this time I was just like, yeah, clearly there's some fundamental shit wrong with me that I need to fix. I'm still working on it.

00:51:03.79
Bill
Yeah. I mean, i I only laugh because yeah, I mean, that's, that's the whole point.

00:51:06.66
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:51:07.70
Bill
I mean, we, we all are, you know, we all are trying to write.

00:51:10.79
Mike
right

00:51:10.93
Bill
And the only thing I thought about, and even though in, I mean, I can go back to saying that, you know, my, my dad was, my dad was an alcoholic, died sober, all this different Right. um I was at meetings with them every once in a while.

00:51:23.55
Bill
um I don't remember any seeds, you know, and not even being planted, but there, I never remember sitting in a meeting and necessarily taking anything out of it, even where like, like Kathy has talked about.

00:51:36.76
Bill
And I think we've had a couple other people that are normies that say, you know what?

00:51:38.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:51:40.21
Bill
um Even though I don't have a problem over here um you know, so some of these things you guys talk about makes sense because they're in, we talked about it.

00:51:44.18
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:47.94
Mike
Right.

00:51:49.29
Bill
They're, they're life things, you know?

00:51:50.39
Mike
yes and Yeah, yeah, yeah. Truths.

00:51:52.57
Bill
yeah I mean, literally take out the, take out the idea of alcohol and, you know, the, the things that we're doing in our lives, we're, we're trying to become better people because like you just said, you know, alcohol is, you know, just a symptom and and all those sorts of things.

00:51:54.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:01.19
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:52:05.15
Bill
But, um, I was trying to think back at, uh, so I learned nothing from my dad. He gave me the book about adult children of alcoholics and his, obviously his wife at the time, I forget what the fuck she said, but she ah again, pissed me off. And I'm like, well, fuck you. I'm not going to read it then, you know, cause I'll show her.

00:52:22.08
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:52:23.06
Bill
Um, but then when I got my, my DUI and going through those, those drunk classes, um, I think that might've been, i don't know.

00:52:29.25
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:32.30
Bill
I mean, I was forced into, even though I didn't, I didn't have to go to AA meetings or anything like that, but went through the drunk class and all that sort of stuff. I guess it was, they were recovery meetings, sort of, you know, groups, but I mean, I wasn't walking into a church basement.

00:52:43.22
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:52:46.35
Bill
They were, all of us were there for the same goddamn reason. We had to be there. We were sanctioned, you know, by the court to be there.

00:52:50.05
Mike
Right.

00:52:52.78
Bill
um But the only thing that, I mean, literally that I was trying to figure out um how to not get caught again.

00:53:00.23
Mike
Right.

00:53:00.58
Bill
You know, oh, again, the thing at the end. Oh, so everybody, Bill's going to try to control his drinking. Yeah, that's that's that's exactly what I wanted to do because I didn't, it was wrong place, wrong time.

00:53:14.78
Bill
You weren't going to, nobody was going to even plant a seed, as they say, you know, thinking that I had an alcohol problem.

00:53:15.37
Mike
Of course.

00:53:23.08
Bill
I mean, I just, I knew what I did, you know, I got, I was, i was fucking stupid, which under any circumstance, it was stupid, but I didn't look back at the, at the pattern of what it, what led up to it, you know?

00:53:25.45
Mike
Right.

00:53:34.94
Mike
Right.

00:53:35.43
Bill
mean, why would I? Yeah.

00:53:37.13
Mike
Yep, exactly.

00:53:39.67
Bill
So, I mean, I guess that's down to the same thing. I was just looking, yeah, I wasn't looking at anything other than how do I not have this happen again? And my only thought pattern was, well, if I drink, I'm not going to drive. That's it.

00:53:51.19
Mike
Sure.

00:53:52.64
Bill
And that happened. I stuck to that a little bit. I think I was sort of semi-successful at that, but yeah, sure as fuck didn't happen forever, obviously.

00:54:01.76
Mike
Right. Well, yeah, exactly. i mean, you got to get someplace.

00:54:06.46
Bill
yeah How the fuck getting, are you going to get home from the bar? You don't want to irresponsible to leave your car in the parking lot.

00:54:09.47
Mike
Right. Exactly. i'm I'm too drunk to walk.

00:54:13.99
Bill
can't, I can't just leave my car here. That'd be irresponsible.

00:54:16.53
Mike
Exactly.

00:54:18.89
Bill
can't just take up a space in this parking lot overnight. why Why would I want to do that?

00:54:24.64
Mike
Yeah. Plus, I'm going to need my car in the morning

00:54:28.09
Bill
That's a good point. That's a very, very good point. All right.

00:54:32.02
Mike
to go to the liquor store.

00:54:32.09
Bill
So I,

00:54:33.14
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:38.55
Bill
That's even a better point. That's even a fucking a better point.

00:54:40.34
Mike
<unk>

00:54:42.52
Bill
All right. So this is keep it simple from a while ago. Don't remember. Only reason I know is because it's towards the top of this fucking list that I have. It says, and this was the quote, I think the opening quote, the measure of a man's real character what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

00:55:00.77
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:55:00.95
Mike
All

00:55:02.04
Bill
I believe I'm pretty sure we probably touched on this subject before, but um how do you how do you feel about that?

00:55:06.87
Mike
right.

00:55:09.15
Bill
Or what are your thoughts about that? Agree, disagree. What are your thoughts?

00:55:12.71
Mike
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, I, if I can get away with it, should i do it? a

00:55:21.00
Mike
Right. But that's, that's old thinking, right?

00:55:23.39
Bill
Right.

00:55:23.55
Mike
it It doesn't matter if I can get away with it. Is it right or wrong? It's the question to ask. And yeah. And,

00:55:32.56
Mike
get away with it or not um you know there's lots of shit i can get away with today that i don't do because it's the wrong fucking thing to do of sucks sometimes but you know because again know who am i i you know i know it's up to be true man know i'm a liar cheating a thief fuck yeah i want to do that shit but i i don't because uh yeah damn it i know that uh in the end

00:55:41.75
Bill
Right.

00:55:59.17
Mike
Not because there's going to be some mansion in the sky for me. It's just I don't want to feel like shit. And eventually, i you know, unfortunately, i've figured out what's right, what's wrong. I don't want to feel guilty.

00:56:14.31
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's ah I think that is the um ah without a doubt, I think that's that's the biggest thing I know for a fact. And I think both of us, if if we're honest, we know for a fact there's plenty of things.

00:56:26.81
Bill
And I don't mean that we could we probably for a little bit, you know, maybe for about 15, 20 minutes, get away with starting to drink again and then our lives will go to shit.

00:56:34.35
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:56:35.37
Bill
Yeah. But I mean, even take it away, the, the obvious, but um I think either one of us can openly admit that there, we could probably get away with plenty of things, you know, doing something wrong, you know, outside of our, our conscious, outside of our feelings and beliefs and probably never get caught.

00:56:44.84
Mike
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Well, yeah. Right. yeah god Plus, we've built all this trust and shit up, you know, people.

00:56:57.35
Mike
People go, he's an alright guy. Look, he's he's been doing all this good shit for 50

00:57:02.79
Bill
Right.

00:57:02.96
Mike
all right

00:57:04.93
Bill
Right.

00:57:05.05
Mike
no he would never do anything like that. Again, I'll call it thinking, man.

00:57:07.81
Bill
Right.

00:57:10.58
Mike
It's way my brain works. i Fuck yeah. I can get away with all kinds of shit. People trust me now. ah

00:57:15.23
Bill
Right. but But to, to your point in the, I think that the biggest thing um is it would, in and I'm glad this is what stops me from doing, you know, the, the next wrong thing is because I know for a fact that would fucking eat me up.

00:57:28.16
Mike
Right.

00:57:30.72
Bill
You know, I can't, I wouldn't be able to sleep.

00:57:30.95
Mike
Yep.

00:57:33.31
Bill
I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I would have to correct it.

00:57:34.97
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:57:36.03
Bill
I wouldn't be able to, I couldn't, I couldn't do that, you know?

00:57:38.85
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:57:40.76
Bill
um And, you know, I mean, yes, granted, I don't want to hurt other people. I don't want to, you know, God, that, Like you said, the trust, I mean, Jesus Christ.

00:57:47.99
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:48.11
Bill
I mean, the trust we have, like you just said, um, huge. I mean, people let, let us in their homes, you know, when, when they're not home, I don't think anyone's hiding their valuables.

00:57:53.92
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:57:58.30
Bill
I guess I, I haven't looked.

00:57:59.47
Mike
right Yeah, exactly.

00:57:59.78
Bill
Thankfully, I don't know if anyone, I don't know if anyone's hiding their valuables because I'm not looking, um,

00:58:01.38
Mike
Uh huh. yeah I look around. There's some valuable shit sitting around. oh That's nice.

00:58:09.45
Bill
Well, there, yeah, there, there, there always is.

00:58:10.45
Mike
Look at that.

00:58:12.72
Bill
I mean, there's things sitting out. You're like, yeah, it's probably got some worth, um you know, but yeah, that, that part, I didn't even think about, you know, the trusting part.

00:58:15.88
Mike
Right.

00:58:19.26
Mike
I get a 20 bag for that shit.

00:58:19.47
Bill
I just,

00:58:22.66
Bill
Like a 20 bag.

00:58:24.28
Mike
Yep.

00:58:24.86
Bill
can get a 20 piece. ain't talking nuggets.

00:58:27.99
Mike
you know

00:58:28.70
Bill
I ain't talking nuggets either. um But yeah, that's a, I, I, I am so happy. No, I just know, I know in my fucking head, I can't, I've said it before. I can't throw a paper towel in a goddamn gas station bathroom.

00:58:42.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:58:42.20
Bill
and Or a truck stop bathroom and let it hit the floor and I pick it up. You know, I can't.

00:58:45.01
Mike
Right.

00:58:46.00
Bill
And, you know, if I'm down there and there's another one, I got to grab a clean paper towel and I'll pick up another one that's sitting down there.

00:58:49.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:58:51.31
Bill
I'm like, I'm not touching the motherfucking thing, but, you know, i'll I'll grab a clean paper towel and and pick it up.

00:58:53.03
Mike
Now.

00:58:56.63
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:58:56.73
Bill
um You know, walking through whatever it was at Walmart that one time and I just happened to bump into one of the containers and something fell on the floor and I'm like, I'm trying to pick the goddamn thing up.

00:59:05.19
Mike
Right.

00:59:07.77
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:07.90
Bill
Yeah. But yeah, these are, those are just the little things I couldn't imagine. A big thing would fucking, I would just, it would tear me up. It would fucking tear me up.

00:59:14.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:18.15
Bill
All right. Another one from touchstones in the beginner's mind, there are possibilities, but in the expert's mind, there are few. Hmm.

00:59:31.54
Bill
Hmm.

00:59:34.30
Bill
What are your thoughts on that?

00:59:36.89
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. You know, if I, if, yeah, if I think I'd fucking know everything, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna learn anything. Oh, i already got all this shit down. i don't need that. I don't need anything else. so And yeah, you know, then you're going to miss stuff and you're not going to be, you know, you're not going to get better.

00:59:51.64
Bill
Right.

00:59:54.35
Mike
You're not going to be. you know more educated and and have more knowledge if if you think you have all that there is to have. I clearly don't know everything. um There's lots and lots of stuff I don't know. Yeah.

01:00:09.63
Mike
And I got to remember that because, you know, I walk into a situation and go, oh yeah, I know what's going on here. i don't, I have no idea what the fuck's going on.

01:00:19.26
Bill
Right. You know, you quite honestly, I couldn't i couldn't imagine, um you know, having that mindset anymore of of feeling like I know everything, you know, because I know I did. i Well, I didn't know everything.

01:00:33.17
Bill
I acted like I did. or felt like I didn't need anyone's help.

01:00:34.49
Mike
Right. the

01:00:36.92
Bill
But um it's the, what, what makes things fun for me these days. and And I do mean it. It's, it makes life interesting and more enjoyable is realizing that um I don't, I don't know some, I don't know a lot.

01:00:50.31
Bill
I, maybe I don't, maybe I know very little.

01:00:50.71
Mike
Right.

01:00:51.97
Bill
I don't,

01:00:52.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:53.20
Bill
i You said it before. i don't know what I don't know.

01:00:55.67
Mike
Yep.

01:00:56.65
Bill
um But I couldn't imagine going through life and if somebody said to me, no, you're good. You finished the internet. That's all there is to it. yeah You're all good. You have nothing more to learn. I'd be like, really?

01:01:09.27
Bill
Hmm.

01:01:10.29
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:10.33
Bill
Well,

01:01:10.65
Mike
what that Why am I getting up tomorrow?

01:01:13.42
Bill
You have nothing more to learn, nothing more to see, um nothing more to be impressed about, no more good neat moons to look at, great sunsets, um nothing. Nothing new. Nothing new on TV.

01:01:23.51
Mike
Right.

01:01:23.94
Bill
Nothing. No book to read. Nothing. Everything's just the way that it is.

01:01:28.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:29.00
Bill
That's it. I'd be like, well, fuck, I don't i don't want any of this shit. I wanna live that want to live like that.

01:01:32.59
Mike
Right. No. Absolutely not.

01:01:37.44
Bill
Well, and that that is one of the one of the recovery sayings is, you know, remain or stay or whatever a beginner, right? I think I remember how the term is. But, um I mean, that that is. i mean you got to you got I mean, yeah, we know some shit. We've been around a couple of minutes.

01:01:50.45
Bill
You know, a couple couple of 24s.

01:01:50.77
Mike
Yep. Couple. Yep.

01:01:54.46
Bill
Not a few yet, a couple.

01:01:55.59
Mike
Not yet.

01:01:56.73
Bill
um But, yeah, I just couldn't even imagine, you know, having somebody tell me that, yeah, it's done. You've learned everything.

01:02:03.35
Mike
Right. Yeah. there's There's nothing more to see here. Right. Great. No, sir.

01:02:10.42
Bill
yeah All the beauty that you've seen and all the amazing things that you've experienced over the last, well, even just 15 years now that you have a clear head. You've done it all.

01:02:18.23
Mike
to

01:02:20.29
Bill
You're good.

01:02:20.45
Mike
right great

01:02:21.27
Bill
like Well, fuck. I don't like that at all.

01:02:25.67
Mike
no sir

01:02:25.82
Bill
yeah All right. 24 hours a day. This, I believe, was just from the other day. I pray that I may constantly prepare myself for better things to come.

01:02:40.88
Bill
If I, or I'm sorry, I pray that I may only have opportunities when I am ready for them. And I remember you're saying, um do you think that you're always preparing for better things?

01:02:47.87
Mike
Right.

01:02:51.23
Bill
That's obviously we my question for you. um And the last sentence said, that's what I wanted to ask you about. What is, do you have your favorite saying what that was?

01:03:00.41
Mike
Uh, yeah, i could find it here. Hang on a second. Um, yeah, it's, uh, but, but, but, but but the guys get pretty fucking fade um i must not expect what i'm not prepared for

01:03:14.75
Bill
Yeah. And that's really much what it says. I pray that I may constantly prepare myself for better things to come um and only have the opportunities when I'm ready for them.

01:03:16.97
Mike
right

01:03:22.61
Bill
So, um so I think, I mean, obviously the, and that's the reason I wrote it down because I remembered that, that saying that you, that you had talked about.

01:03:23.08
Mike
right

01:03:29.95
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:31.80
Bill
So I don't know for maybe people that have forgot, maybe me, um I mean, why did you, to begin with, why did you gravitate to that or or save it or what did that, what was the meaning to it to to begin with that you're the reason that you grabbed onto to that?

01:03:45.92
Mike
Well, because I expected everything always, oh you know, and. without being prepared for it and you know, I, I, yeah, I, I wanted everything without putting in any of the work in.

01:03:58.99
Mike
And I've got to remember that it's the other way around. I've got to put the work in and then when I'm ready for it, that good shit will happen. And that's, that's when it's good. You know, if you hand me something and I didn't do anything for it, it doesn't fucking have any value.

01:04:14.39
Mike
And, um, I, I want, you know, I want to value the good things that I have in my life. The only way to do that is to work for it prepare myself

01:04:24.84
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's a, and I think we may, we probably did have that same type of conversation last time. And I thought about it with, and I don't know if I use this example, but it just popped into my head when, um when I turned 16, I mean, mom had a car and, you know, obviously Kathy two years older than me for anyone who doesn't know, our sister is two years older than me.

01:04:30.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:42.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:45.16
Bill
So, yeah know, she'd been driving for a little bit and, you know, just mom had the one car and, Um, her and Larry were together at that point, but, um, I don't really, God, I don't think I ever drove his car if I did.

01:04:52.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:55.80
Mike
business business business business

01:04:56.65
Bill
i mean, he was, he he softened over the years, but he was just, yeah, it was his fucking car, you know?

01:04:59.72
Mike
ah

01:05:02.29
Mike
Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, because he fucking worked for it. Says.

01:05:06.07
Bill
Yeah, yep, exactly. Yeah, didn didn't want any.

01:05:08.62
Mike
Hmm.

01:05:09.01
Bill
yeah and Then they got a conversion van. and we were a allowed to drive that every once in a while, but that was ah that turned out to be, that was his. He drove the conversion man because that's when he got rid of his, he had a he had a silver two-door cutlass.

01:05:20.58
Mike
Nice.

01:05:21.66
Bill
Oh, you know what? I got to remind me Larry the ice cream store in a minute.

01:05:26.04
Mike
yeah Okay.

01:05:27.11
Bill
So it just reminded me of that with his cut list. So when I turned 16, it wasn't a big deal. But it would have been nice to have a car. I don't remember if I used to walk to work.

01:05:38.25
Bill
I worked at the gas station right in Wales, and it was walkable. But I mean, in the wintertime, I don't remember... um I probably got a ride up there, you know, because trying to walk, you know, three feet of snow or like that across.

01:05:50.64
Bill
It would have just it would have been more difficult. But one of the guys I worked for, the owner's son, had this old shitbox. It was a 77 Malibu, you know, that he bought when it was, I think, two years old. The lady, one of the customers blew an engine um or blew the engine.

01:06:08.00
Bill
and um sold it to them for like fucking nothing's that engine was blown right so i mean their goddamn mechanics had rebuilt the engine and their he had a car you know um so he drove it for however many years and then uh you know figure 80 um was 85 probably when i got it 84 85 i don't know 85 and um

01:06:12.46
Mike
Right.

01:06:16.66
Mike
Yeah.

01:06:24.06
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

01:06:25.95
Bill
and um At the time, my dad had come back into my life and he was, you know, offered, he's like, oh, I'll buy a car, this and that. I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of looking at something, whatever. he's looking at all these different things. Let me look around.

01:06:37.71
Bill
And he he wanted to do that for me, you know. um But I was looking at this other thing and I paid $200 for it. um I spent, and I'm not shitting you at the time, you know, I spent between speakers and the stereo system and the tape player and the equalizer, I think I spent...

01:06:56.68
Bill
$400 on the audio system in the car.

01:06:58.51
Mike
Sure.

01:07:00.65
Bill
Um, and it was a fucking piece of shit. It just was, you know, but it was mine.

01:07:03.02
Mike
Right.

01:07:05.25
Bill
It was my piece of shit.

01:07:06.55
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:06.71
Bill
Um, and I paid $200 for it and it was fucking wonderful. And you know, the weird part was, is I think my dad was offended at the time.

01:07:13.41
Mike
Hmm.

01:07:14.29
Bill
Um, looking back at it now. And then he ended up, he got, he ended up getting the triumph and, you know, I got that and all that different stuff and obviously helped me out down the road or, Did support me down the road, but I think he really wanted to do that.

01:07:26.16
Bill
um But the point was, is that, you know, it was mine and I did, I was making money and I had more money than I knew what to do with, you know, i'm making, you know, $4 an hour, whatever the fuck it was.

01:07:32.59
Mike
Right.

01:07:37.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:37.65
Bill
um But i mean, living at don't have goddamn bills, you know, but that goes back to that point that made me think about that was that it was mine.

01:07:40.46
Mike
right

01:07:44.35
Bill
I worked for it, you know. um And it it had taught me right off the bat, you know, probably, and I lost the whole concept of, you know, valuing items and working for them at certain points, you know, in my life up until I got sober.

01:07:56.59
Mike
yeah

01:07:57.65
Bill
But, um you know, at least at that time, it was, ah I think it was, it was a lesson that that taught me, you know, to value something, you know. um But I don't know. It just ah like, I mean, I, I put the money together to buy Derek's car, but I asked him, I'm like, you know, I said, I'd like to do that for you.

01:08:14.63
Bill
But if he would have been like, no, I want to do it on my own or whatever, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have pissed at him. But um I mean, I know he was grateful, you know, so I don't know.

01:08:20.46
Mike
Right.

01:08:23.06
Mike
Sure.

01:08:24.16
Bill
He was, it was one of those, it was just one of those things that just reminded me that that, that is exactly, that was kind of the point of the whole thing is that, yeah, I, I worked for it, you know? But um yeah, then I sat back and had my and my fucking handout for for people for, you know, fucking years after that And you figure by the time it's just.

01:08:34.67
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:40.51
Mike
Sure. yeah.

01:08:44.89
Mike
Well, yeah, yeah, right.

01:08:45.04
Bill
ah

01:08:45.85
Mike
then Yeah, you get smart, you get a little older and you go, oh, shit, they're just going to hand me shit. I'll take it. Shit.

01:08:53.84
Bill
Right.

01:08:57.71
Bill
ah Yeah, that's ah that's a good goddamn point. Because really, I mean, yeah, it's just you learn the but what you think at the time is a is the easier, softer way, right?

01:09:08.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:10.70
Bill
But um I think then we figure out that it's not really the easier and softer way.

01:09:14.80
Mike
It's really not. No, it it is not.

01:09:17.57
Bill
yeah So then this is non-sobriety, but it has to do with our podcast. But I get this email from Spotify the other day. And, you know, of course, anyone who's listening, you could be listening on Apple, could be Spotify.

01:09:32.28
Bill
Those are our top two. They're, I think, the top two for most people.

01:09:33.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:35.33
Bill
Apple usually runs, you know, number one for most podcasts, I think. But anyhow, yeah. So with with Spotify, though, the ads that run, when you guys are listening to this podcast and you hear those ads, again, it's it's literally fucking pennies.

01:09:50.53
Bill
You know, we get $9.

01:09:51.10
Mike
Sure.

01:09:51.35
Bill
What did I say? Usually every like two months, three months, whatever. I don't even fucking pay attention. So we get this email to our sober, not mature email. It's like Spotify payouts update.

01:10:03.13
Bill
I'm like, ooh, what's this? Okay.

01:10:05.06
Mike
Sure.

01:10:06.78
Bill
And it says, we hope you're enjoying your experience with Spotify payouts. Absolutely. It's going wonderfully.

01:10:11.13
Mike
Sure. Absolutely.

01:10:11.92
Bill
Every time we get $9. nine dollars

01:10:12.92
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:15.13
Bill
In the coming months, we're adding a security check to payment ah payments processing. And I'm like, oh here we go. you know um To help you keep your account safe. Starting June 2nd, 2025, two-step verification.

01:10:29.69
Bill
How do you feel about two-step verification?

01:10:31.85
Mike
I fucking hate it.

01:10:33.48
Bill
and I understand it, and I'm grateful for it if if anyone tries to fucking hack me.

01:10:38.14
Mike
Right.

01:10:38.60
Bill
Because I think it's probably saved me. um

01:10:40.96
Mike
Right.

01:10:41.22
Bill
you know I think it's probably saved all of us, but yeah, I'm not a fan. But anyhow, so starting June 2nd, 2025, two-step verification will be required for earnings over...

01:10:53.52
Mike
Ah. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

01:10:58.38
Bill
That is the only reason I wrote that down because you found the humor in it as much as I did. um We've been doing this for three years. Where's my calculator? Even if it were, because I can't think this was, let's see if it was 9 times 12 times 3.

01:11:15.06
Bill
Okay. If, and I don't think it's been much more than that, if it's been $9 a month for three years, which it hasn't been, $324 in three years.

01:11:20.59
Mike
ah

01:11:26.06
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

01:11:29.06
Bill
um So, in other words, I don't think we're to have to worry about the the two-step verification.

01:11:33.80
Mike
Right.

01:11:34.81
Bill
So,

01:11:36.85
Mike
We don't have to worry about one step.

01:11:40.24
Bill
Yes.

01:11:40.56
Mike
We have to verify anything.

01:11:40.78
Bill
if Right. yeah Yeah. They probably sent the email I don't even know we're sending these fuckers.

01:11:45.97
Mike
Right.

01:11:46.00
Bill
They get nine, you get $9. Nobody's trying to steal this kind of money. but We don't need to protect them. That's for goddamn sure. Oh shit. I almost forgot the, the story about Larry. Okay.

01:11:54.60
Mike
Yes.

01:11:55.64
Bill
So um for anyone, again, I talk about my stepdad every once in a while and was in my life for 30 years and ah wonderful human being. He and I butted heads, but he was a guy coming into our lives after you know our mom and ah me, our sister and our mom had had been you know on our own for whatever, it's six, seven years and had her own little unit.

01:12:04.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:15.10
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:16.03
Bill
Yeah. but unit yeah

01:12:17.48
Mike
Right.

01:12:17.96
Bill
and And he came in and he was relatively controlling and a hard ass, not retired Marine, but abandoned Marines.

01:12:22.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:24.70
Bill
And um so, yeah, very, very fucking buttoned up.

01:12:24.87
Mike
Right. He was a Marine. Yeah.

01:12:28.69
Mike
Yep.

01:12:28.85
Bill
um You know, and just things changed. You know, not in a horrible way. he wasn't He wasn't abusive or anything like that.

01:12:33.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:34.82
Bill
He just had his way, you know.

01:12:35.12
Mike
Right. Those are the great Santini.

01:12:36.48
Bill
Yeah.

01:12:40.76
Mike
You kids Google that.

01:12:42.64
Bill
Right. But, you know, so he, again, wasn't doing anything wrong, but yeah, we butted heads every once in a while. So there was um this ice cream, I'm sorry, custard stand. they would They would fucking beat people up for calling it ice cream. It's custard.

01:12:56.70
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:12:56.77
Bill
The name of the place that's in Wales, Wisconsin, if you're ever there, I highly recommend it. It's really good. Nice little place. Still there as far as I know. It's called LaDuke's. Okay. And it's been there.

01:13:07.34
Mike
which is French for the Duke.

01:13:11.43
Bill
LaDuke. Yeah. So, okay. It's an ice cream stand that's rich for the Duke. That's awesome. But, um, great custard. They have a little, you know, sandwiches or whatever. I think they've expanded. I don't fucking know, but this place was busy or crazy busy all the time. They did. I mean, hell of business.

01:13:29.09
Mike
Right.

01:13:29.49
Bill
So we would go down there, you know, obviously as a, sometimes after dinner, we, I mean, as kids, you know, a bunch of kids of us, kids will go down. There was just great place. Um,

01:13:38.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:38.47
Bill
So um I don't remember if, um actually, I think Larry and I might have went up there to get ice cream for us, you know, like for me, him and mom and Kathy one night.

01:13:38.62
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:13:51.45
Bill
um I think I rode up with him. So I was in his car. He drove, obviously, in his car. I remember how old I was. But I was in high school, young-ish. But I think we met him when I was like 15 years old, somewhere like that, 14, 15.

01:14:04.77
Bill
Maybe little younger. But anyhow. Yeah. So he had this two-door cutlass. And you remember cutlass. If anyone doesn't know what a two-door cutlass is, um whatever the door on your car is now, anyone's car out there, it's like twice as long.

01:14:11.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:16.88
Mike
since

01:14:17.12
Bill
yeah Or a fucking two-door, it's like this. ah it's It's literally like half the fucking car, right?

01:14:24.24
Mike
Right.

01:14:25.19
Bill
So um these parking, very small lot. Sometimes you'd have to park in the back and this and that. People park over the gas station, all over the fucking place. So very tight parking spots in this parking lot.

01:14:36.32
Bill
So we're getting back in the car and I opened um the door. And again, back to Larry loving his car, right?

01:14:43.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:43.19
Bill
um I opened the door and I bumped the car next to me.

01:14:43.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:14:46.21
Bill
Not hard, but just lightly bumped it. And I'm like, again, I'm sitting there. I'm like, I'm young. I'm just like, I'm sorry. And I get in the car and I shut the door. And the guy opened his car and bumped Larry's car back.

01:14:58.88
Mike
<unk>

01:14:59.69
Bill
And then Larry's getting in the car. says, this is happening. in ah um And he's like, what just happened? And I told him he didn't say a word. Okay. He got of out of his car and the windows are up. I don't know if it's cold out or whatever.

01:15:12.99
Bill
The windows are up. He gets out of the car. walks around to the driver's side, knocks on the window. The guy rolls down his window. Then Larry just walks away. The guy rolls up his window, and has fucking you know bewildered look on his face.

01:15:24.80
Bill
Larry gets back in the car and I'm like, I'm like, what did you say? And he said, if you ever do that to my, he might've been married at the time. Said, if you ever, you know, do something or act that way to to my stepson again, he goes, I will, I will kick your motherfucking ass.

01:15:39.06
Bill
And just walked around. I got back in his car. So, I mean, he fucking protected me, you know?

01:15:41.38
Mike
All right.

01:15:43.47
Bill
um He didn't say shit about his car, which is where I was. That's what I thought. You know, I knew ah was actually more worried about his car than anything, but he didn't like the guy.

01:15:48.72
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

01:15:52.28
Bill
The guy got aggressive at me.

01:15:53.82
Mike
Right. Right.

01:15:54.21
Bill
um And that was, ah I mean, not the only time. I mean, i um he and I had a, it was my own goddamn fault for the, I took advantage of them for years and he didn't trust me, obviously, at the end when I first got sober and all that.

01:16:00.70
Mike
Right.

01:16:05.78
Mike
is

01:16:05.98
Bill
And he and I really, um thankfully, I had that opportunity to gel with him again um in that last year of his life, you know, when I was there.

01:16:14.01
Mike
Right, right.

01:16:15.86
Bill
Which, I mean, I can't even tell you how fucking grateful I am. just no words. But, you know, just I don't even know why that popped into my head.

01:16:24.62
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:24.85
Bill
Again, he was he was so fucking protective of the car, but um didn't say it.

01:16:27.68
Mike
yeah

01:16:29.45
Bill
Didn't say word one about his car. He just didn't like the way the guy the guy got fucking aggressive at me.

01:16:34.07
Mike
Right.

01:16:34.56
Bill
So I was like, God damn.

01:16:35.17
Mike
Cool.

01:16:35.90
Bill
Yeah, it was fucking amazing, you know? So yeah, it's everything that the hard ass thing that all the shit I talk about him and I didn't talk shit about him, but he's a hard ass.

01:16:43.15
Mike
Right.

01:16:43.50
Bill
But I mean, he had a, he had a heart of gold too.

01:16:44.06
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:16:45.34
Bill
So, but yeah, so if that was a, yeah that was the, that was a softer side of sober, not mature for this.

01:16:45.50
Mike
Right.

01:16:52.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:53.12
Bill
It's right. um All right. So I had a, I think I have a, Since I know you don't want to be here, I'm going to...

01:17:01.70
Mike
Yeah!

01:17:04.04
Bill
I'm down. I got a couple more things.

01:17:04.88
Mike
Sitting here looking at my bed going, huh?

01:17:09.10
Bill
But um I have a... Hang on one second. don't remember what the fuck our article is about, but I'm going to take a peek. I know I looked at it. Oh, okay. I came across this yesterday or today.

01:17:20.35
Bill
don't remember before we went. So Mike and I met up, met our cousin, ah Johnny, for dinner last night at a great place where Chris's daughter...

01:17:26.85
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:17:29.71
Bill
works And although she wasn't there, it was a lovely meal.

01:17:30.87
Mike
Yep. Uh huh.

01:17:34.84
Bill
Okay.

01:17:34.95
Mike
It was.

01:17:36.18
Bill
So I remember when I found this, it was today or before then doesn't matter. So this is people who always clean up after themselves at restaurants usually display these unique behaviors.

01:17:47.80
Bill
says psychology. So, um, and I think it might've been, don't remember, but I, I, I remember looking at our table last night. It was, was clean ish.

01:17:57.41
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:17:57.94
Bill
You know, we, we took care of it. So number one, respect for others.

01:17:59.64
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:18:01.28
Bill
The first behavior that struck me, this is the person writing the article was that immense respect for individuals. These individuals have for others space.

01:18:09.75
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:18:09.76
Bill
So agreed.

01:18:10.91
Mike
Yep.

01:18:12.37
Bill
All right, so number two, consciousness of actions. Another intriguing behavior um is their consciousness of other actions. Remember a time when I was dining with a friend who always cleans up the restaurants?

01:18:25.12
Bill
Halfway through the meal, spilled some sauce on the table without missing a beat, my friend reached for a napkin and quickly wiped it off, right?

01:18:31.66
Mike
Right.

01:18:32.25
Bill
I mean, whether we're at a restaurant or or at home, I mean, i I would do the same thing.

01:18:34.98
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:18:35.85
Bill
I mean, um I'm not going to get out, you know, say, ah hey, can you get me the spick and span?

01:18:36.54
Mike
broke

01:18:39.55
Bill
I want to...

01:18:40.32
Mike
her

01:18:40.35
Bill
you know, cleaning the table, but right.

01:18:42.92
Mike
Yeah.

01:18:44.08
Bill
Um, number three, self-discipline, one behavior that consistently stands out of self-discipline. Um, recall an instance when I was out for lunch, sister, another one of those clean up after ourselves. We finished our meal.

01:18:55.12
Bill
She began stacking our empty plates and tidying up the table, even though we were running late for a movie.

01:18:57.49
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:19:01.28
Bill
Okay. Um, so I think I, I know I did that and I think you did too, right?

01:19:06.76
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:19:08.79
Bill
And do you, did you ever do that? Is that a sobriety thing or since then, or did you always do that?

01:19:14.45
Mike
Um, no, I, hell no, I didn't do it. Uh, me. oh clean up my fucking messes, literally and figuratively.

01:19:26.10
Mike
Um, yeah, no, no.

01:19:26.40
Bill
right

01:19:28.68
Mike
Um, and it, um, actually it's, um, I know part of it, yes, part of it's definitely sobriety. Part of it's also being Chris because she worked in the service industry for all, you know, when shes and so she does it just because, she you know, that's what she does.

01:19:38.44
Bill
Right.

01:19:44.44
Mike
um Again, yeah, that the the first one, you know, thinking of others and and yeah, um that's definitely a sobriety thing for me. Thinking of others, yeah.

01:19:52.07
Bill
Right.

01:19:53.48
Mike
You know, a person's got to come clean the table up and and I'm going to help them. I'm going to make it as easy for them as possible.

01:20:01.37
Bill
Yeah, and you know, um when I asked you that question about prior, I i don't remember um how I acted.

01:20:07.62
Mike
Right.

01:20:07.74
Bill
i don't i don't i just don't i I would think probably not right. you know i'm I'm just going to go with that because that was my normal way to act.

01:20:11.14
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:13.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:14.29
Bill
um But then Derek's first job, he was a busser. And you know um i think that I used to um be clean-ish in stack plates, but um I watched him after he started bussing like that, and he would...

01:20:16.70
Mike
Sure.

01:20:22.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:27.01
Bill
not only stack the so that the server or the busser didn't have to reach for

01:20:30.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:34.06
Mike
Right.

01:20:34.58
Bill
You know, so I, you know, specifically watch that.

01:20:34.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:36.50
Bill
And then he would, I'm like, oh, I said, I could, you know, tell where you work now. And he's like, you would, you would believe the best people leave.

01:20:41.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:42.11
Bill
And I'm like, no, I would, I get it.

01:20:45.15
Mike
Yeah, yeah. That's it. Yeah, you know, exactly. You don't remember because it didn't fucking matter to you back then.

01:20:51.90
Bill
Right. Yeah. I mean, that's that's a great point.

01:20:52.62
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:53.64
Bill
I don't remember just being, that's why I'm thinking that I was probably a fucking pig. I mean, why wouldn't I have been?

01:20:57.17
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:20:59.30
Bill
All right. So number four, detail oriented. Person says, once I had a colleague who was meticulous about tidying up our lunch table, he would not only stack the plates, but also line the the cutlery neatly and wipe away any crumbs.

01:21:11.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:12.58
Bill
I asked him why paid so much attention, these minor details. I believe that how you do, one thing is how you do everything.

01:21:20.69
Mike
Yep. Absolutely.

01:21:21.88
Bill
Pretty cool, huh?

01:21:22.88
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:23.53
Bill
And I mean, this has nothing to do with sobriety, but it has everything to do with sobriety so far, right?

01:21:25.91
Mike
Mmm. Yes.

01:21:27.65
Bill
Which is, when I started reading it, I was just kind of like, I thought it'd be funny.

01:21:28.14
Mike
Right.

01:21:31.18
Bill
I'm like, oh, you know, I know I clean up at the rest of it. is going to tell me I'm fucking great, right?

01:21:35.55
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:36.16
Bill
Then I start reading these things. I'm like, God, this is sober shit. So, two two more.

01:21:38.91
Mike
Yeah, it is.

01:21:40.30
Bill
Actually, I'm sorry, three more. um High emotional intelligence. This is the, this is the, okay, pat me on the back now. All right.

01:21:48.12
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:21:48.27
Bill
um I remember a dinner with a friend who always insists on leaving the table spotless, asked them why, trouble to do so. think about the server who has less to clean up after us.

01:21:59.29
Bill
It's a small thing I can do, make the job a little bit easier. Okay.

01:22:02.08
Mike
Right.

01:22:02.66
Bill
Exactly what we were just talking about.

01:22:04.20
Mike
z

01:22:04.72
Bill
um His response reflected a high level emotional intelligence. So, I mean, does it or is it just courtesy? I mean, I'm not going argue the point, but however you want to put it.

01:22:13.25
Mike
Right.

01:22:15.06
Bill
I mean, I i think we agree with it, right?

01:22:17.29
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. yeah i yeah Phrase it however you want. it's it's Again, try help the next person along their way.

01:22:25.72
Bill
Right.

01:22:26.35
Mike
ye

01:22:27.35
Bill
All right, two more. Demonstrated responsibility. um Not too long ago, I was dining with a friend, habit of cleaning up. She accidentally knocked over her water glass, and before I could react, she had already flagged down a waiter, apologized propusely, and begun mopping up the spill with her napkin.

01:22:44.98
Bill
Said something that day that stuck with her. you're responsible enough to create a mess, you're responsible enough to clean it up.

01:22:51.21
Mike
Right. Right.

01:22:51.97
Bill
Ah, I fucking like that. I like that a lot. So I forget what trip it was, um but it was in the last year. i stopped at a, it was a Love's and there was a subway attached to it.

01:23:05.34
Bill
And, you know, you've got to walk out back out into the into the area where all the other coffee bar and stuff is to get your soda. So did that and they gave me the big fucking cup. And I'm like, I don't really need that to like, ah, it's the same price. You whatever.

01:23:18.64
Mike
right

01:23:18.64
Bill
So I get this big monster jug of fucking soda. I'm like, whatever. I probably won't drink it all, which I did not because it ended up on the floor. OK.

01:23:27.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:23:28.25
Bill
So I get back to, um, I get back to the table and it's, uh, it is just a table, not a booth. Um, you know, kind of in this, in one area, kind of an open area. And all I did, I sat down, I set the tray down, I took the soda off, I put my sub down and I was about to unwrap the the paper on the sub.

01:23:45.60
Bill
And what I did was I just, I pushed along the table, pushed my cup. There was something sticky on the table. And as I pushed my cup, the thing went all the way over and top went off. And the, I mean, monster, big gulp fucking subway cup all over the fucking floor.

01:24:04.26
Bill
And I'm like, oh, motherfucker. So, I mean, same thing. Exactly what this, I got up, i'm I'm wiping the shit up. I'm grabbing napkins. Like, you don't have to do anything. I'm like, I have to do all of this.

01:24:15.44
Bill
I'm like, look what I, look what I said.

01:24:16.34
Mike
Right.

01:24:17.80
Bill
I will even mop this up for you. like, I feel so stupid. She's like, don't, don't be silly. I'll do it. But then I'm sitting there and people are walking around and they put down the, you know, the little yellow signs, dumb shit spilled something.

01:24:22.58
Mike
Right.

01:24:27.20
Mike
Right. a

01:24:29.59
Bill
And I'm like, fuck me. And I'm all I want to do is just walk out, you know?

01:24:33.07
Mike
right

01:24:35.27
Bill
All right. So last one, number seven, unconcerned with others' opinions. You might think that they do not appear courteous and considerate. And while that could be, well, hang on one second. missed the first part.

01:24:47.01
Bill
This may sound counterintuitive, but those who clean up after themselves at restaurants are Are often less concerned with others' opinions. You might think that they do it to appear to be courteous and considerous.

01:24:59.48
Bill
Considerous. Wow. Consider it. ah But while that could be part of it, I found that often it goes deeper. Once asked a friend why she tied it up, her response was, I do it for me, not for what others might think of me.

01:25:08.27
Mike
me Right.

01:25:10.27
Bill
The behavior is a reflection of their values and principles, not an attempt to impress others or seek approval. It's about staying true to oneself, um irrespective of societal expectations or norms.

01:25:23.65
Mike
hu Yeah, absolutely.

01:25:24.85
Bill
Kind of cool, huh? Yeah. And literally, I mean, I was, ah you know, because I look for these stories, it'd be just fucking funny, you know, but I start reading this goddamn thing. i'm like, every fucking one of these is sobriety based.

01:25:36.78
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:25:37.20
Bill
Yeah. And I'm like, that's fucking awesome. I'm like, this is going to be great. i

01:25:41.33
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:42.06
Bill
i was I was actually happy with that one. See, was it wasn't just some stupid band article that pissed you off.

01:25:46.94
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:25:50.26
Bill
All right. So um on that note, it it, well, we're, we're good. I don't even need to say anything snappy.

01:25:55.38
Mike
yeah

01:25:57.23
Bill
um Mike, I want to say this from the bottom of my heart. Thank you.

01:26:02.26
Mike
ah hu

01:26:02.84
Bill
Thanks for sticking, sticking through this when you didn't feel like it because I don't know. God damn it. We need you.

01:26:09.34
Mike
Well. Mm-hmm.

01:26:11.77
Bill
I almost got that out without laughing, but no, on a serious side, seriously, I know you weren't up for this and I don't know.

01:26:12.31
Mike
well

01:26:17.72
Bill
I appreciate it. Things, things always, things always loosen up as we get going, but I know you're, I know you're heading your heartward in it right away.

01:26:22.13
Mike
me

01:26:24.72
Bill
So appreciate it.

01:26:25.49
Mike
Hey, yeah, whatever, man. Again, i don't care what other other people think. I'm doing it for me.

01:26:31.55
Bill
Right. I know.

01:26:32.22
Mike
Right.

01:26:32.35
Bill
I appreciate the fact that you're doing it for you.

01:26:34.41
Mike
It's that last one. Right. I need to be true to myself and honor my commitments and whatever. Now I'm going to bed.

01:26:43.53
Bill
All right, man, you're up.

01:26:44.90
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to another episode of Sober Not Mature. always, be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out there and do something nice for somebody else this week, and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:27:00.43
Mike
Now, from the heart of my bottom, no, wait, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, whatever that it is, from the beginning of time till the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:27:13.69
Mike
Now it's time, kids. Who crepple is it time? It's time for you to fuck off and keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:27:26.68
Mike
Climb over that gate. oh Dream the impossible dream. Keep fucking off forever.

01:27:35.01
Bill
And you are right. It is that time. It's fucking 10, 15 p.m.

01:27:37.90
Mike
is Well.

01:27:38.54
Bill
Fucking real time. It's all right, though. But, dumb you know, everyone surely will be with us, so hopefully, as it as it lines up a couple of weeks from now. So if anyone came on into this episode hoping that it was surely on here and it stuck with us for the entire thing, fucking thank you.

01:27:47.85
Mike
Yep.

01:27:54.84
Mike
Yeah, thanks. It was just Lenny and Squiggy.

01:27:57.64
Bill
Thanks.

01:27:59.23
Mike
Shirley wasn't here.

01:28:03.25
Bill
Now that's fucking funny. Look that shit up, youngsters.

01:28:06.35
Mike
you, too.

01:28:06.66
Bill
yeah

01:28:07.05
Mike
Right. Bye.

01:28:08.30
Bill
All right, man. I love you, brother.

01:28:10.21
Mike
but we do

01:28:11.13
Bill
And I'll see you in half a minute.

01:28:12.44
Mike
right by

01:28:13.33
Bill
yeah Bye.