SoberNotMature - Episode 217 (Parking Lot Clown Show)

00:00:01.18
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And you know, I know that we always say that nobody gives a shit if we record on ah on an off night.

00:00:11.77
Mike
Right.

00:00:12.54
Bill
But tonight it might actually matter. and I'm going to tell you why. And I think you'll agree with me.

00:00:15.72
Mike
Mm.

00:00:16.50
Bill
um I need to put the episode... where Well, we're recording on a Thursday. That's number one for anyone listening.

00:00:20.60
Mike
Yes.

00:00:22.01
Bill
And it's possible that you might be listening to this on Friday. Because I need to put this together tonight anyhow.

00:00:25.94
Mike
Oh.

00:00:29.79
Bill
Because...

00:00:30.58
Mike
Right.

00:00:31.19
Bill
At this time tomorrow, we're going to be, you know, sitting in the theater. You know, I like i don't want to be I and I'm driving tomorrow and I'm trying to fuck around with it.

00:00:34.87
Mike
Right. Uh-huh. Yeah.

00:00:38.98
Bill
So I'm like, yeah, I'll just put it all together tonight.

00:00:40.28
Mike
yeah

00:00:41.10
Bill
Why not? You know, and then mean, if I put it all together, there's sense in letting it sit there till Saturday morning. What you know, I mean, what the fuck?

00:00:46.42
Mike
Let it marinate.

00:00:48.95
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? um I don't know. I checked around. You can check around too with all your people. But um I don't know.

00:00:54.87
Mike
Yeah.

00:00:55.71
Bill
i checked with I checked with my people and I ran it up the the chain as they say. There's nobody around to tell us no.

00:01:02.14
Mike
Really? You didn't get the memo from corporate?

00:01:07.36
Bill
Nope. Nope. Didn't get the, didn't get the memo seeing as I'm, and I'm sitting at corporate right now.

00:01:11.13
Mike
yeah Right.

00:01:11.20
Bill
And I, I mean, nobody's here, so I don't know if they, did they quit?

00:01:12.32
Mike
Right.

00:01:14.78
Mike
yeah

00:01:15.30
Bill
Did did we never hire anyone?

00:01:16.26
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:16.82
Bill
Is it just, is it just us? And you're at the, ah you're at the Cleveland, at the Cleveland office. Anyone, anyone running around there?

00:01:21.46
Mike
Right.

00:01:22.94
Bill
That's, you know, that's okay.

00:01:24.96
Mike
Nope. but Nobody gives a shit here either.

00:01:25.46
Bill
Okay.

00:01:26.74
Mike
All

00:01:27.06
Bill
All right. So, and I know you don't, so I'm just, I think I'm just going to release it. I'm just going to release it tomorrow. So unless, unless something fucking weird happens, you know, but, uh, Hey, you know, technology fucks with me, then i won't, but so anyhow, yeah, we're, uh, we'll be at,

00:01:32.44
Mike
right.

00:01:39.51
Mike
Yeah. So you fuckers get an extra day of us.

00:01:42.26
Bill
Right. and know I'm going to do what I've done in the in the past. is I'll just do the same thing I normally do on a Saturday. I'll do Friday and Saturday.

00:01:50.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:01:50.98
Bill
There's going to be people that are used to you know obviously looking maybe for the post on Saturday. so I'll just keep the same keep the same rhythm, but just do it again on Friday.

00:01:55.67
Mike
Right.

00:01:58.38
Bill
and you know some people yeah Some people might actually get surprised because, yes, if if if anyone that's you know within spitting distance of Cleveland happens to be listening to this on Friday morning or Friday afternoon,

00:02:10.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:02:11.97
Bill
Hop on the, hop on the interwebs and go to Playhouse Square and look for the, not the shuffle, don't, that's the shuffle.

00:02:14.26
Mike
Yes. Nope, not the shuffle.

00:02:19.45
Bill
That's the, just shuffle, you know, and it's the the documentary that that we had talked about, that we talked with Ben about, God, don't even know what episode that was, handful of episodes few months ago, whatever the deal was.

00:02:21.89
Mike
Right.

00:02:30.52
Mike
Right.

00:02:31.13
Bill
But, um yeah, so, I mean, we we get the opportunity to actually sit in the theater with other people and hopefully get to meet Ben if we're lucky. I was going to say if he's lucky, but I don't think he gives a shit.

00:02:43.16
Mike
yeah

00:02:45.76
Bill
but

00:02:46.42
Mike
right and And, yeah, I just looked, and it's www.clevelandfilm.org.

00:02:56.75
Mike
That's the official website for the Cleveland International Film Festival, or CLIF.

00:03:01.65
Bill
Cool.

00:03:03.90
Mike
KIF. hey

00:03:05.83
Bill
Kiff or cliff with a C. Okay.

00:03:07.42
Mike
no Yes, yeah, with a C, and it's, yeah, no L, so KIF.

00:03:11.90
Bill
okay

00:03:12.00
Mike
KIF 50. It is the 50th year. Yeah.

00:03:15.54
Bill
Oh, nice. Okay.

00:03:16.73
Mike
yeah

00:03:16.82
Bill
Well, and you know, I mean, if, ah if, if anyone happens to be listening to this at some other time, ah I mean, I don't think that I've ever been to the Cleveland playhouse. um I mean, I can't say that for sure because every once in a while when we were younger, i mean, mom used to try to culture us every once in a while, you know, whether it was like, you know, trying to feed us liver or, you know, taking us someplace.

00:03:35.00
Mike
well

00:03:36.80
Bill
I don't know that I've ever been, but you, you have.

00:03:38.20
Mike
Right. I mean, it oh yeah, I've been down there to the theaters for several things.

00:03:39.58
Bill
Right.

00:03:43.11
Mike
I'm trying to think because, I mean, you know, they it's gone through some stuff.

00:03:43.42
Bill
Right.

00:03:48.18
Mike
they They revitalized all that. And I want to say ah they started doing it in the Yeah. um So, yeah, I mean, Playhouse Square, I mean, it was run down theaters and some of them were closed.

00:04:05.41
Mike
And, um you know, i I believe there was a burlesque period earlier on. And. Yeah.

00:04:11.84
Bill
that's That's the one when I was in elementary school. We took a field trip there to the the titty show.

00:04:15.67
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:16.40
Bill
Okay, that was the one.

00:04:16.92
Mike
yeah ah Right.

00:04:17.72
Bill
hey okay

00:04:20.16
Mike
But yes, they didn't you know start like...

00:04:20.70
Bill
and

00:04:22.76
Mike
revvi I mean, I know in definitely in the early 70s, it was pretty sketchy down there. um Yeah, yeah.

00:04:28.78
Bill
Oh, was it? Okay.

00:04:30.20
Mike
I mean, it's it's a cluster. I believe it's... I want to say six theaters, maybe seven, something like that, some bigger, some smaller.

00:04:37.50
Bill
Really?

00:04:40.66
Mike
But, yeah, they they were run down there for a while.

00:04:41.26
Bill
Okay.

00:04:43.94
Mike
It wasn't the show place that it is today. um Yeah, you know, they um they they brought it back, and it is the second largest theater district in the United States outside of New York.

00:04:46.70
Bill
Right.

00:04:58.01
Bill
Really? That's it.

00:04:58.58
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:59.59
Bill
You know, Milwaukee's got a good, a good theater base too. mean, I can't think of the name of the, the one theater downtown.

00:05:03.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:06.43
Bill
So I used to, I mean, it's, it's been there for, you know, for fucking years, you know, and it's a, it is kind of a big deal, but I just don't remember the name of it right off the top of my head.

00:05:10.10
Mike
Right.

00:05:14.50
Bill
But, I don't know that they have the, you know, like the New York and I'm sure Chicago and some of these other areas that have a big, you know, obviously Cleveland, you know, as a theater district.

00:05:19.80
Mike
oh Right.

00:05:23.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:24.28
Bill
I don't know if, I don't know, you know, but I'm really looking forward to because I mean, quite honestly, the, so we were out of Cleveland by 77, think. Right. Yeah. Right. seven i think

00:05:34.68
Mike
Right. Yeah, so that's what I'm thinking. So, i mean, you guys probably didn't go down there as a kid.

00:05:39.64
Bill
right yeah

00:05:40.96
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:41.18
Bill
right And, you know, I mean, we obviously had family in in Cleveland and we've been, ah i mean, Christ, I've been the back and forth wherever I've fucking lived over the last however many years since 1970, 50 plus years, you know.

00:05:53.94
Bill
um

00:05:54.12
Mike
Right.

00:05:55.43
Bill
I've been back and forth to Cleveland, you know, thousands of times, it seems. And probably that's not that's not ah an unrealistic number, but...

00:05:58.69
Mike
Right.

00:06:02.09
Bill
um I mean, we used the only thing we went downtown for.

00:06:02.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:05.05
Bill
So Uncle John had his whatever law firm he worked with to begin with. One of the first ones he worked in was in the ah he had an office in the terminal tower. You know, so we we went down there, but that was before they didn't have the whole mall shit downstairs and all that stuff.

00:06:19.06
Mike
Right.

00:06:19.98
Bill
It wasn't it wasn't the terminal tower and tower city of today, even though that's even, you know, not like it was, what, five, 10 years ago.

00:06:23.50
Mike
isn't it

00:06:27.16
Mike
Right.

00:06:28.02
Bill
You know, but but yeah, I think that's the only I don't remember. We never went to we didn't go to baseball games or football games. I mean, we just didn't do that, you know, which is, I guess, kind of weird, you know, but um I don't know.

00:06:36.63
Mike
right

00:06:40.40
Bill
I mean, it's just our I don't know what. Well, my dad drank, you know, so I mean, he that was his that was that was his pastime.

00:06:43.80
Mike
Right? That's what he was doing, right?

00:06:47.19
Bill
Yeah. So I don't know. i don't know. Whatever the fuck, it whatever the fuck we did, we didn't make it down there. I and didn't have a bad childhood. i just, you know, maybe wasn't culture than in that way.

00:06:53.97
Mike
Sure.

00:06:56.23
Bill
But, you know, um um my point is i'm I'm really looking forward to it. I think it'll be nice. Oh, I got to say parking spot already. So.

00:07:04.88
Mike
Ah, cool.

00:07:05.75
Bill
I went through the the same place that we, or the same app that we did for the Foo Fighters.

00:07:09.78
Mike
here

00:07:09.79
Bill
And so it's an open parking lot like that. It's on, it's literally a six minute walk. It's on seventeen Street. So a little bit north, like up and right of where the, where the square is.

00:07:16.79
Mike
Okay. Okay.

00:07:20.18
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

00:07:21.59
Bill
But guess, guess how much it was. I mean, there's parking all over the place for God knows what, but just an uncovered open spot.

00:07:23.69
Mike
Yeah. 25 bucks.

00:07:27.85
Bill
So what do you think?

00:07:28.39
Mike
Oh, nice. Nice.

00:07:31.54
Bill
Five. Five.

00:07:32.70
Mike
oh nice

00:07:35.03
Bill
That's why I swear to God, anyone out there, if you're ever going anywhere and I've done it in Chicago, I did it in Milwaukee, I've done it a couple other places.

00:07:40.15
Mike
here

00:07:41.27
Bill
the The app is called Park Wiz, like W-H-I-Z.

00:07:44.34
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:07:46.17
Bill
And it's fucking wonderful. I mean, the one time, and this was got 20 years ago, I think when I first got the app, I went down to Chicago and I'm like, I'm going get fucked when I get down there because no way that I just got parking right by whatever the, I don't know, the whole mall area there was.

00:07:48.38
Mike
Yeah.

00:07:55.85
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:01.23
Bill
I had to meet a ah customer or client down there. So I get this and I got underground parking right off of the main Michigan, right off of Michigan.

00:08:04.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:09.65
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:08:10.36
Bill
And I paid like, it was like $15. Okay.

00:08:13.01
Mike
Yeah, nice.

00:08:13.88
Bill
So all parking at that time was like 30, 40 bucks, whatever it is.

00:08:16.38
Mike
Yeah, yeah,

00:08:17.40
Bill
And I'm like, I'm going to get there. they'll just go be like, yeah, you know, how much how much money do you really got boy.

00:08:21.33
Mike
yeah. Yeah,

00:08:21.88
Bill
And I'm like, no, it was, it was that. So, I mean, it's a fucking swear by it, but yeah, I'm, I am, I'm, I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's going to be a good time.

00:08:29.36
Mike
Yeah.

00:08:30.37
Bill
So.

00:08:30.90
Mike
ah

00:08:32.05
Bill
But um yeah, so um we got we got we got stuff. I think we got stuff. You probably got a reading and I won't even, I'm not even going through the list of things I have.

00:08:37.24
Mike
yeah

00:08:39.53
Bill
I'm going it's going to be a fucking surprise, but you know what? I may not, I don't even know if I'll have to dig into any like sayings and shit like that, that I pulled out of readings, but that may not be true. But I just feel like I got a lot of step-by-step stuff that I went, I don't know, wrote down over the last couple of weeks.

00:08:54.39
Bill
And then Next week we have, i think our friend Lane from the Sober Curator. because We got guests for the next week or two.

00:09:01.85
Mike
Right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a curator person, so don't know. What the fuck do I know?

00:09:07.64
Bill
um Yeah, yeah.

00:09:09.21
Mike
fifty

00:09:09.64
Bill
Lane is next week, and then Justin, the other sober curators, May 8th.

00:09:12.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:09:13.02
Bill
And then we've got Anthony dy Dyer, who's the former aviator and author of the the book Moonchild. That's on June 5th. And I need to get a hold of Chris from Sands Bar so we can get him on somewhere in the in the middle, because that's why i left a you know portion of May open, just in case we can grab him on there.

00:09:27.29
Mike
Right.

00:09:31.23
Bill
But yeah, and still, we're we're still, no, we don't know we don't know the results yet.

00:09:32.00
Mike
Yep.

00:09:34.89
Bill
We're just sitting here. but Yeah.

00:09:36.62
Mike
Yep.

00:09:36.92
Bill
we We're still just nominated.

00:09:37.32
Mike
More will be revealed.

00:09:38.56
Bill
That's all that are. That's all that we are nominated, but...

00:09:40.18
Mike
more will be revealed

00:09:41.72
Bill
Exactly. So, all right, my friend, do you have a do you have a reading?

00:09:43.54
Mike
Right.

00:09:46.40
Bill
I'm guessing.

00:09:47.00
Mike
I do.

00:09:47.18
Bill
Guessing?

00:09:47.52
Mike
Yes, I do.

00:09:47.90
Bill
Okay.

00:09:48.24
Mike
Yes, yes, yes. It's from Touchstones. This was yeah a few days ago. i read it in the morning and went, oh, that looks pretty good and stuck my stuck my little bookmark in there. and yeah so And I kind of looked it over before we started to make sure, because you never know, right?

00:10:04.95
Bill
okay

00:10:08.07
Mike
Read something in the morning, and oh, that's pretty good, and you look at it in the cold, cold hard light of day, and then yeah that sucks.

00:10:09.50
Bill
right

00:10:15.55
Mike
No, it was all right. So, um yes, April 11th from Touchstones.

00:10:17.14
Bill
Well, good.

00:10:20.97
Mike
Here we go. i have learned this. It is not what one does that is wrong, but what one becomes is a consequence of it. Oscar Wilde, I believe he wrote some stuff.

00:10:34.23
Mike
ah Let's see. There are countless ways to take shortcuts in life or to grab for pleasures. We could cheat on our income taxes, excuse a food binge, or lie to a loved one about where we've been.

00:10:48.92
Mike
We'll say it won't hurt any anyone, or I wouldn't do it if it weren't for the other guy, or everyone does it. But if we are to like and respect ourselves, we need to live by the rules we believe in.

00:11:04.22
Mike
Whether we get caught or not isn't the point. We cannot hold values and then repeatedly justify breaking them. What does it do to us if we constantly fudge on our values?

00:11:19.45
Mike
It undermines our self-esteem and damages the faith we have in ourselves. We do not expect to be perfect, but we must be accountable. If we are honest with ourselves, we admit our wrongs and reestablish our self-respect.

00:11:36.66
Mike
The touchstone's thought of the day, or whatever the hell it is Today, I will take care to make choices that match my values.

00:11:48.06
Bill
All right. So I say this every time and I don't think about it when I'm reading touchstones, but it there's a lot of shit packed into a very short reading every single time.

00:11:53.14
Mike
Right?

00:11:56.38
Mike
youre Right?

00:11:58.33
Bill
And it in it kind of goes, it's sort of on one topic, but it has all these little like side point ideas. go fucking crazy trying to write this shit down but I think we always get the point so um there's two things that I would like I mean I'd like to start with the end part but also I also want to go back to that Oscar Wilde part in the beginning so the end of the beginning I think were you know kind of poignant things if you don't mind could you read the the ending part again

00:12:06.71
Mike
Uh-huh. Sure.

00:12:17.37
Mike
aha

00:12:21.24
Mike
sure The ending was, today i will take care to make choices that match my values.

00:12:28.82
Bill
Okay, because I wrote down something else on values. But um do you, and I, well, I'm not even going to, I'll say it. I won't even say it. But do you think that, um do you Do you still, to this day because I know we hope we both did, but do you think you still, to this day, have to fight with yourself at all to live by these set of values that we've learned and, I don't know, cultivated?

00:12:57.21
Mike
um yes and no right yeah um you know a lot of it no um because it's just become a part of the way of life and the way we live our lives and all that good stuff but um you know, my, um we're talking, you know, 16 years versus 40, whatever, you know, let's shave it off.

00:12:59.32
Bill
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

00:13:19.79
Mike
Let's go 35. Right.

00:13:21.59
Bill
hey

00:13:21.67
Mike
so great. years versus years. Um, you know my my initial thoughts and my initial instincts and all that crap is, um, usually wrong and, and, uh, and, and, and certainly not, um, productive for anyone, including myself.

00:13:33.44
Bill
Right.

00:13:41.88
Mike
Um, that's why i don't allow that to run my life today. Right. Um, life is unmanageable. I don't manage my own life. Um, yeah. So, you know, yes, there's a lot of the stuff that, that is, but, um,

00:13:57.62
Mike
You know, yeah, there's still, there's still ah you know, something jumps in front of me, whatever that thing may be. And my first instinct is to fuck that, run it over. um

00:14:07.83
Bill
ah ah

00:14:09.69
Mike
And then I have to go, no, that's that's not how I live my life today. and

00:14:14.97
Bill
yeah

00:14:15.96
Mike
ah Pump the brakes a little and look for a way to get around it or or whatever.

00:14:21.69
Bill
Right.

00:14:22.12
Mike
yeah So, um yes, to answer your question, yes and no.

00:14:27.10
Bill
You know what? And that's a I I think I I don't think there's an issue whatsoever with me agreeing with that 100 percent, because, you know, to begin with, I'm like, yeah we get these values and we're fine.

00:14:37.55
Bill
And then you made you made a good point right off the bat.

00:14:37.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:39.47
Bill
you like When you pause for a minute, I'm like, i'm like, oh, shit, wait a second.

00:14:40.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:14:42.31
Bill
What am I not thinking of? I'm like, I'm not thinking of everything is what I'm not thinking of.

00:14:44.06
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:14:46.49
Bill
And exactly just anything and everything that can, that can light me up, you know, and just because we have this whole, like you just said, you know, 16, almost 16 years versus whatever the, let's call it 35 years, like you said, um

00:14:51.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:14:57.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:00.37
Mike
Sure.

00:15:02.01
Bill
That difference, I mean, yeah, ah same thing as Vinny used to say. Don't walk 20 miles into the woods and turn around and take a couple of steps and get out of the woods.

00:15:07.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:10.85
Bill
Now, i I don't think we'll ever get out of the woods.

00:15:11.24
Mike
Right.

00:15:14.13
Bill
I mean, there's still there's always going to be woods around us, but you know we can see the light of day.

00:15:14.26
Mike
No.

00:15:16.78
Mike
Yep.

00:15:18.33
Bill
and We're not you know in fear of, let's say, dying in the woods anymore, I don't think.

00:15:21.31
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:15:22.41
Bill
Um, on most days, but, but yeah, I mean, anything that can, there's still everything that could set me off just because we got all this stuff behind us.

00:15:22.61
Mike
No.

00:15:29.47
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:15:30.82
Bill
It doesn't mean we're, you know, we're immune to that.

00:15:31.23
Mike
Right.

00:15:33.14
Bill
It just means that maybe we pump the brakes a little bit.

00:15:36.53
Mike
Yep.

00:15:36.54
Bill
Um, you know, maybe we don't say what's on our mind. Maybe we're really fucking irritated inside. My thoughts are all kind of, all kinds of fucked up.

00:15:43.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:15:45.67
Bill
Somebody I know says that quite a bit, but

00:15:46.06
Mike
Yo.

00:15:48.82
Bill
and um And I agree with that wholeheartedly. So, so yeah, and it's, god damn, that's an unfortunate good point. i and

00:15:57.26
Mike
Yeah. Goddamn honesty. Fuck.

00:16:00.41
Bill
I know. It's like, it's like you you motherfucker, you made a good point and I can't i can't even give you like a, it's not even like a point counterpoint. Like, what if? No, there's no, because the what if would actually prove the point.

00:16:08.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:16:10.89
Bill
You know, if I said, doesn't that suck?

00:16:11.29
Mike
Yes, exactly.

00:16:14.01
Bill
if i If I tried to, if I tried to debate the topic, that would prove the point.

00:16:20.95
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:16:20.98
Bill
That's fucking irritating.

00:16:22.55
Mike
Yeah, isn't it? it

00:16:23.33
Bill
that's that's That's really fucking irritating.

00:16:26.23
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:16:26.33
Bill
So um what about the the first part again? Oscar Wilde. I love Oscar Wilde, but um can you read that the the first port portion again?

00:16:31.31
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:16:34.36
Bill
Okay.

00:16:35.00
Mike
um I have learned this. It is not what one does that is wrong, but what one becomes is a consequence of it.

00:16:43.58
Bill
Okay. So, um I mean, I've got thoughts on that, but what are your what are your thoughts on that in general? What does that make you think of right away? Or does it?

00:16:51.10
Mike
Um, I mean, no, it does. Um, right. Well, I mean, clearly we can do wrong things. We can debate that, but it's, um, but, and we can do good things and so if it doesn't make us a better person or whatever.

00:17:00.44
Bill
Right.

00:17:09.07
Mike
Um, yeah. So, I mean, I do agree with it. It's, it's what becomes as a consequence of our actions. Um, you know, our actions, inherently aren't good or bad you know i mean yeah again we can argue that point yes they are no that you know whatever but um but it's it's how they how we what we become because of them um you know ah we've talked on here over time you know until we're blue in the face, you know. um All the shit that we did, all the bad things that we did, very clearly we did wrong things, actions that were wrong for a very long time.

00:17:51.77
Mike
But um they have worth and they're not you know, to we learned from them. We became, we studied them. We, we did an inventory on them. We told somebody else about what that shit was and, um, turn those things into making us a better person.

00:18:11.74
Mike
Um, You know, and and using them to help someone else so they have value and whatever.

00:18:11.77
Bill
Right.

00:18:17.38
Mike
So, I mean, that's kind of, you know, what I think he's talking about, you know, these the actions don't really matter, which is, again, goes against everything we've always said.

00:18:28.32
Mike
Right. All our actions matter. And, you know, that's the only thing that fucking matters.

00:18:30.30
Bill
right

00:18:31.98
Mike
But, um but yes, but truly what we become from those actions is what matters, whether we become good or bad indifferent or whatever, you know, hopefully better people and, you know, good people.

00:18:47.28
Mike
But, um but yeah, you know, what truly matters is what, how we change ourselves because of those actions. And yeah, I agree with that.

00:18:58.07
Bill
Right. And, you know it made me think of um a couple of things. Actually, i I was trying to think of both sides of it as you were talking. The first thing I thought about was, you know, they and I've used this as an example of things that I just I'm unable to do these days.

00:19:12.70
Bill
I can't walk into a bathroom or go to walk out of the bathroom, throw a paper towel at the at the garbage can, have it miss and leave it there.

00:19:13.30
Mike
oh

00:19:18.68
Mike
Right.

00:19:19.86
Bill
You know, I have to pick it up.

00:19:20.12
Mike
Right.

00:19:22.22
Bill
I'm compelled to pick it up. Um, same thing like when I was walking through Walmart and, you know, I bumped into one of those, know, their display things and a book fell off and hit the floor and I had to pick it up, you know, anything like that.

00:19:30.14
Mike
he Right. right well

00:19:34.27
Bill
So so these little things along the way, even to the point where we could say that, okay, so, um, I'm no longer reading four books. I went down to three or I'm only doing two, which is untrue.

00:19:43.82
Mike
Uh-huh. Right.

00:19:45.95
Bill
I'm still, still doing my four. I'm fucking paranoid as shit about that.

00:19:47.56
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:19:49.25
Bill
But that's that's that's on the good side of things.

00:19:49.55
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:19:51.89
Bill
so So let's say that either one of us, you know we stopped doing our readings, we stopped getting connected. We talked about you know people stop going to meetings and all those different things. And you go to be of service, I go at whatever whatever I'm around them.

00:20:06.02
Bill
like like I'll go on Saturday when I'm there.

00:20:06.71
Mike
Right. Right.

00:20:08.26
Bill
Um, but you know, I, I don't think, and I don't think, cause I, I hope, well, didn't even hope I know for a fact that you would tell me if you thought I was straying too far away from this thing, rather than maybe just not going to meetings or if you're like, yeah, you should probably hit at least one a week or do this.

00:20:08.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:20.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:22.74
Mike
Right.

00:20:24.93
Bill
Cause you're a little fucking squirrely, you know?

00:20:25.53
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right, right.

00:20:27.49
Bill
And I know I'm, I know I'm squirrely in general, but I think that if I, if my, if my,

00:20:29.66
Mike
Sure. Extra squirrely. Mm-hmm.

00:20:32.70
Bill
Yeah, if my mental health and my sobriety were were in danger or were even getting affected, I think you would tell me. I know you would, not even think.

00:20:39.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:39.24
Bill
I got to stop saying and think. I know you'd tell me.

00:20:41.13
Mike
Right.

00:20:41.32
Bill
um But so these things, the action of not doing my readings or or dropping a book or thinking, you know, fuck it, somebody else, that's what they pay to do that, you know, fucking cleans the bathroom for to pick up this goddamn paper towel or whatever the case is.

00:20:52.06
Mike
Sure.

00:20:54.64
Bill
You know, I start slacking and all these things. I don't make my bed anymore, you know. um I don't clean up after myself around here or where I'm when I'm at somebody's home.

00:20:58.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:02.93
Bill
um I don't clean up myself when I travel.

00:21:03.09
Mike
Right.

00:21:04.69
Bill
I fuck these Airbnb people. They can clean it up, you know?

00:21:06.55
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:21:07.99
Bill
So those little actions, although again, to your point, I, I 100%, it's difficult for me to say that they don't matter, but I understand the point of what Oscar Wilde saying that it's not necessarily, it's not the action itself.

00:21:16.39
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:21:20.71
Bill
It's a, it's the, the culmination of these things sooner or later,

00:21:23.73
Mike
Yeah.

00:21:24.92
Bill
two days, three days, three months, whatever, maybe a year, you know, either if I don't drink, I'm going to be fucking miserable.

00:21:27.16
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right?

00:21:31.38
Bill
That's for goddamn sure.

00:21:31.66
Mike
Yup.

00:21:32.98
Bill
I'm going I'm going to turn into somebody I don't want to be. I'm going to turn into a person that I used to be. Um, and I'm going to be no good to myself or other people.

00:21:38.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:40.50
Bill
So, you know, I, uh, it does, it comes back to, but it's this, it's this building block, just like we built blocks to to do all the good things.

00:21:40.74
Mike
Right.

00:21:48.60
Bill
We could build blocks for the bad things.

00:21:49.26
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:50.32
Bill
Um, So on the good side of things, this was what was thinking about when you were talking, kind of little side note my head, was all the little fucking things that we had to do at the Keating Center.

00:21:50.49
Mike
Absolutely.

00:22:00.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:00.92
Bill
You know, clean 17 times a day and do this and do that and whatever the fucking thing we were, everything that we were doing.

00:22:03.13
Mike
Right.

00:22:07.60
Bill
um You know, none of this shit matters, right?

00:22:07.90
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:10.08
Bill
Well, of course it did. Because...

00:22:11.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:22:12.57
Bill
When we get out on our own, then we're like, okay, now we make our bed.

00:22:14.21
Mike
Yep.

00:22:15.41
Bill
Now we care about other people. Now we clean up after ourselves. You know, now we, now we don't yell at people. Now we don't, you know, we know how to conduct ourselves in a, in a group, you know, in whatever the case may be.

00:22:25.05
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:25.17
Bill
So same deal, you know, you know, we're not, we're not fucking wild animals like we were just running all fucking willy nilly self will run riot.

00:22:26.52
Mike
Yeah.

00:22:33.36
Bill
So on both sides of it, that paragraph or that, that statement from him, I mean, makes a lot of sense. I, that's why I wanted you to go back and read that.

00:22:39.80
Mike
move

00:22:41.70
Bill
Cause I'm like, I'm like, I like that. I think this means something. So let's dig into that one for a minute. But yeah, I mean, I do, I like it a lot.

00:22:50.81
Mike
Yeah, me too. Exactly. Right. Yeah. All those little things, you know, have somehow made us better people. um Right.

00:22:59.19
Bill
Right.

00:23:01.98
Mike
And um yeah, you know, actually, there's a girl that led my home group. i don't know, young woman. Um, she's probably 30. It's a girl to me. Uh, cause I'm old.

00:23:13.34
Bill
Right.

00:23:13.96
Mike
Uh, anyway, she led and she was, you know, um, yeah, you know, she brought up the the thing, you know, that I say all the time, you know, look, there's parts of this program. I don't fucking understand.

00:23:24.71
Mike
You know, I don't understand how they work. I never will. It's fine. You know, ah again, comes back to, you know, what's making my bed every day have to do with me staying sober. You know, I don't know.

00:23:35.70
Mike
But apparently something. But it doesn't matter that I understand it or that I feel it my heart. It's, you know, that I fucking take the action and do it. And and what do you know? Still fucking sober. I'm glancing over right now because I'm in my room. Hey, my bed's made. Look at that. Uh-huh.

00:23:55.93
Bill
yeah well my Mine's got shit because I did some laundry. I've got some other things on it. I've got things on it right now. not

00:24:00.63
Mike
ah

00:24:01.38
Bill
Not strewn all over the place.

00:24:03.51
Mike
ah ha

00:24:03.94
Bill
I have folded clothes. I have my Chromebook. I have my phone. That sort of thing. It's right next to where I'm sitting.

00:24:08.13
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:24:10.03
Bill
My bets, man. I make it every fucking morning.

00:24:12.04
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:24:12.91
Bill
Same thing we talked about when Even traveling, when when you've traveled or I've traveled, you know, it's a hotel or it's an Airbnb and they even tell you, strip the bed, you know, any beds you've used.

00:24:16.02
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:24:21.50
Mike
Right.

00:24:22.27
Bill
I still make the guy, you know, I make it, I unmake it, take off all the sheets and then I'll usually put the comforter on.

00:24:22.30
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yep.

00:24:28.17
Bill
Worst case scenario, I fold the comforter kind of over on itself on the bottom of it and just make it look nice.

00:24:28.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:32.50
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:24:35.10
Bill
Just so fucking stupid. But I look at it and I laugh and I'm like, I have to do that, you know?

00:24:36.66
Mike
he Yeah, yeah, right.

00:24:39.64
Bill
All

00:24:40.59
Mike
I mean, yeah, when I was down in Myrtle Beach with the family, right? You know, it was, yeah, it was an Airbnb.

00:24:43.76
Bill
right.

00:24:45.67
Mike
Same thing, you know, strip the bed when your last day when you're done.

00:24:48.57
Bill
he

00:24:48.59
Mike
i fucking made the fucker first and then stripped it down.

00:24:52.23
Bill
Right.

00:24:52.47
Mike
Yep, because I had to.

00:24:52.87
Bill
Right. Right.

00:24:54.10
Mike
i don't I don't know. I mean, know probably if I didn't, I probably wouldn't have walked outside because there was a liquor store right across the street matching that in Myrtle Beach. And, yeah.

00:25:02.87
Bill
ah right

00:25:05.37
Mike
You know, probably wouldn't have walked over there, but hey, guess what? I didn't have to fucking find out.

00:25:10.47
Bill
Right. Yeah. And the same thing, you know, what, what habit are you, um you know, what thing right now, what consequence does that thing have, you know, down, down the road?

00:25:15.03
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:18.75
Bill
It's that, it's that ripple effect. And we talked about it last week with Heather, you know, is, you know, what is it?

00:25:21.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:23.31
Bill
Is it, is it positive or is it negative ripples? One way or the other, we human beings in general have the, have the ability and do leave ripples. It just depends on what, what type of fucking ripples do you want to leave today?

00:25:33.37
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:35.69
Bill
You know, and tomorrow and the, yeah.

00:25:35.86
Mike
Right? That's fucking physics, man. You move. there's The air moves around you. Right?

00:25:41.14
Bill
Right.

00:25:41.50
Mike
Yeah. you know's ah there's There's an effect.

00:25:44.98
Bill
Right.

00:25:45.05
Mike
Yes.

00:25:45.46
Bill
Yeah.

00:25:45.85
Mike
Yep.

00:25:46.78
Bill
And I don't i have no desire to leave bad ripples. And if I do, I mean, we we've got a program and we've got a step. You know, we've got a a process to to fix it if we if we leave that bad ripple.

00:25:52.98
Mike
yeah

00:25:56.70
Bill
But yeah, I mean, it's the same thing. You know, it's the and, you know, the the immediate result to like, for instance, the the Airbnb stuff, you know, and I I've never gotten a negative review.

00:26:07.24
Bill
I've never left one either because I also that's the other side of things is. um I specifically decided when I started traveling, I'm like, even if something gets all fucked up, you know, I'm going to I'm going to deal with the host directly.

00:26:17.03
Mike
Right.

00:26:19.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:19.75
Bill
I'm not going to blast them on Airbnb because I don't think that's fair. Now, even if, you know, they tell me to go fuck myself, you know, if I if I, you know, give them suggestions, I'm still not going to put it up on Airbnb.

00:26:23.80
Mike
Right. Right.

00:26:32.62
Bill
You know, I mean, because there's no point if if somebody if I didn't like a property or if somebody was kind of dick to me or something like that, um I'll just I will I will put no written review part of it.

00:26:40.70
Mike
Right?

00:26:45.18
Bill
I'll just put the stars in there because I'm like it's selfish also because I want I want the positive review also.

00:26:45.27
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:26:51.77
Mike
Sure.

00:26:51.86
Bill
You know, I don't want to fuck somebody and get fucked back because that that'll hurt me. You know, but the immediate result of me making my bed is that. I've gotten a lot of really nice compliments from, from some of these hosts, you know?

00:27:02.51
Mike
Right. Right.

00:27:04.79
Bill
i mean, the one guy is like, we've been doing this for years. They've never had our place left so clean. And I'm like, I'm like, I didn't, I didn't do anything differently, you know?

00:27:12.02
Mike
Yeah, right. yeah Living the way that we live. Exactly.

00:27:15.96
Bill
Yeah. Yeah.

00:27:16.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:16.73
Bill
it it makes It makes me feel good. I mean, to to literally have no fucking effort involved in doing that and making that much of an impression on somebody. And I think that's a big deal, you know, because these, don't know, these hosts are, you know, just it it is what it is.

00:27:27.22
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:30.24
Bill
I'm sure, you know, many people have. Sooner or later, going have somebody who's going to fuck with you. I mean, everyone does in life.

00:27:34.16
Mike
Sure.

00:27:35.32
Bill
But, yeah, to be able to just be like, okay, oh, I got remind me.

00:27:35.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:39.60
Bill
Actually, i'll I'll write this down. I got i don't think even think I wrote it down. Yeah. um it was my doctor's appointment that i you know what yeah i've got i've got well you know me you've been around me a minute or two um but it's a uh it's a it's i think it's a it's an interesting story it's a life story but it has to do with the doctor's appointment so but anyhow so back to uh we're back on the right route i think so so i wrote down shortcuts lie cheat and steal because it didn't say that exactly it talked about lying but it i'm just like well lie cheat steal

00:27:46.25
Mike
Squirrel.

00:27:49.40
Mike
he

00:27:57.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:28:02.14
Mike
Right.

00:28:08.01
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Well, yeah, it talked about, you know, cheating on your taxes. And yeah, yeah,

00:28:13.59
Bill
Oh yeah, I guess it did.

00:28:15.26
Mike
Well, right.

00:28:15.54
Bill
Yeah, I guess it actually, it did.

00:28:15.94
Mike
It did. You know, and lie to a loved one.

00:28:17.36
Bill
That may be a different order.

00:28:19.50
Mike
Yeah, it was all in there. Right. You know, um right. and Actually, it brings me back to the to the last line in the main part of the reading was, if we're honest with ourselves, we admit our wrongs and reestablish our self-respect, which I think is huge, you know, um because, I mean, you know, big part of getting loaded is not having respect for yourself in a lot of different ways.

00:28:35.86
Bill
Right.

00:28:45.54
Mike
And that's a whole other thing we could go into at some other time.

00:28:47.90
Bill
Right. Right.

00:28:49.08
Mike
But, I mean, you know, the core of it is, you know, poisoning ourselves to make ourselves feel good, but it comes down to not respecting ourselves. And, um you know, that's that's a big part of what this program has given us is self-respect.

00:28:58.24
Bill
Right.

00:29:04.91
Mike
I respect the fuck out of myself today, you know, um which is good. You know, I mean, i again, that whole... lying to ourselves and and building ourselves up in our heads and believing our lies and all that crap before.

00:29:19.10
Mike
um you know, yeah, I respect the shit out of myself. Oh, of course he didn't. You know, um, I'm ruining, I'm ruining my life, poisoning myself.

00:29:24.60
Bill
ah

00:29:27.36
Mike
Yeah. You really respect yourself a lot. Um, but yeah, today, because, because of what these actions have made me become, thank you, Mr. Wilde.

00:29:38.88
Mike
Um,

00:29:39.12
Bill
Right.

00:29:39.99
Mike
yeah you know i i respect myself today because i'm doing the next right thing and that's that's a respectful thing i treat people you know the way i want to be treated for the most part um i do um yeah right you know i mean and there's people i certainly do not fucking respect but um I'm i'm not going to i'm not gonna go out of my way to to disrespect them.

00:29:53.51
Bill
No, I know. no I know. i know

00:30:09.25
Mike
I'm just going to go out of my way to get the fuck away from them. um

00:30:12.39
Bill
Right.

00:30:12.92
Mike
Yeah, you know. So, yes, but that reestablishing my self-respect by owning up to what I fuck up um is is a huge thing. One of the wonderful gifts this program has given us.

00:30:26.71
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's ah I mean, that's ah actually a really good point, because um I mean, the ah like you just said, I mean, it's it's easy to say, I mean, at the time, obviously, looking back right now, we know we're full of fucking shit.

00:30:38.62
Mike
Yes.

00:30:38.86
Bill
But I mean, I thought I not only had self-respect, I thought I was respectable and I was neither of those things.

00:30:41.50
Mike
mrs o

00:30:44.10
Bill
You know, but but now I mean, I i do.

00:30:44.95
Mike
Right.

00:30:46.70
Bill
I mean, I care about myself. I care about to a certain extent. I care about what other people think based on the or the way I want to act as a human being.

00:30:56.89
Mike
Right.

00:30:56.95
Bill
You know, I don't I don't want to go out there. and somebody doesn't like me, fuck them. I mean, it it is what it is. I mean, that that part of it we've talked about plenty of times, but.

00:31:02.84
Mike
right

00:31:05.55
Bill
I don't want to be that guy out there, you know, that that is acting a fool. And I'm supposed to be, you know, a sober individual. And on top of that, a member of Alcoholics Anonymous and a member of a community that's supposed to be this community is helping me and has helped me.

00:31:15.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:20.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:20.39
Bill
At least it should be. You know, I should be becoming, be becoming and continuing to be a better person. You know, so i would it would bother me if somebody is like, yeah, you are you're you are presenting yourself very well.

00:31:25.98
Mike
Right.

00:31:32.58
Bill
You're not you're not a respectable human being.

00:31:32.62
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure.

00:31:34.58
Bill
you know So in that sense, I care about what people think about me.

00:31:34.78
Mike
Right.

00:31:37.30
Mike
Yeah.

00:31:37.42
Bill
But I also, it's my choice and my responsibility to make sure that I can't control how they act, but I can put the best version of myself forward, right?

00:31:48.27
Bill
I mean, I i think that's that's our responsibility, I think.

00:31:48.47
Mike
Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. and And again, like you said, you know, if if we're doing that and they still don't like us, fuck them.

00:31:57.14
Bill
Yeah, fuck them. Yeah, fuck them. Yeah.

00:32:00.86
Mike
Right. You can't recognize how fucking wonderful I am.

00:32:04.76
Bill
Right?

00:32:05.74
Mike
That's your problem. Now, not not that we're that fucking wonderful.

00:32:06.90
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? it

00:32:09.14
Mike
I'm certainly not. But um yeah, but I am a so far better person than I was. And, you know, I'm... doing what I'm supposed to do for the most part.

00:32:19.67
Mike
And yeah, God damn it.

00:32:22.97
Bill
Right. Well, that's the thing.

00:32:24.31
Mike
And if you don't recognize that, that's fine.

00:32:24.74
Bill
I mean...

00:32:26.35
Mike
I i don't care. I'm not doing it for you.

00:32:28.82
Bill
Right. And you love...

00:32:30.10
Mike
I'm doing it because I'm selfish and self-centered. I'm doing it for myself. So I have that self-respect.

00:32:36.06
Bill
Right. Yeah. And, and, you know, the the thing of it is though, is that, uh, I mean, people, um, once again, if they, if they don't recognize that, I mean, we're doing things that that we were taught. Yeah. Granted, there are going to be people, there's probably, there's going be haters out there, you know, and I don't know, like we've talked about this a number of times.

00:32:46.02
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:50.59
Mike
Right.

00:32:52.92
Bill
I have no, well, I want to talk about this in a minute too, but, um, I have no one in particular in my life right now that I have a, and I'll use my air quotes, have a beef with.

00:33:04.03
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:33:04.47
Mike
right. Yeah.

00:33:05.27
Bill
You and I talked about a couple of weeks ago when you were here, situation that I that I know that's kind of acted a fool in other ways. um I don't really have a beef with that person, but want to talk about that just briefly because I think that might be ah a decent open topic.

00:33:18.72
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:21.65
Bill
But as far as like an open beef, somebody that i that I don't like or don't,

00:33:24.98
Mike
Right.

00:33:25.78
Bill
don't have or that have a problem with that I'm going fight with, you know, and that's fucking huge.

00:33:29.07
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:33:30.50
Bill
And, and, you know, when, when I think about, mean, granted when, when my dad died, you know, it before I got sober, thankfully, you know, he and I got our shit together and whatever, but there was still clearly some regrets there.

00:33:30.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:37.11
Mike
Hmm. Mm

00:33:41.82
Bill
By the time Larry died, you know, I'm a year and a couple of months sober when he died.

00:33:42.18
Mike
hmm.

00:33:45.75
Mike
Right.

00:33:45.82
Bill
No regrets on his end. And certainly when, even with all the, all the fucking turmoil over the years that I had with mom, prior to and even after, you know, I got sober, um, all of that shit back and forth here and there.

00:33:47.90
Mike
hmm.

00:33:52.34
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:33:58.46
Bill
Um, you know, I still, there was nothing left undone where I'm like, I'm like, fuck man, I wish I would have, you know, taken care of that shit. But that goes back to, you know, again, responsibility, how we're supposed to act, what we're supposed to do, because the whole, the whole properly fucking admit it when we're wrong,

00:34:06.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:16.95
Mike
Right.

00:34:18.25
Bill
it's I mean, yeah, it's a suggestion, but it's a pretty goddamn strong one.

00:34:20.22
Mike
Aha. Ha-ha. Ha-ha.

00:34:23.98
Bill
You know, you, if you have fuck with somebody today, you better fix it because then that's, that's the only goddamn reason that I don't have any regrets.

00:34:24.09
Mike
Yes.

00:34:32.38
Mike
Right.

00:34:33.03
Bill
It's that, well, this program in general, but, but step 10, being able to walk back to somebody and be like, you know what? Fuck. i'm I'm sorry.

00:34:39.41
Mike
Yep.

00:34:40.09
Bill
they're like who you You didn't do anything wrong.

00:34:40.23
Mike
Yep.

00:34:41.73
Bill
God damn it.

00:34:42.14
Mike
a

00:34:42.84
Bill
Yeah, did.

00:34:44.10
Mike
yep Yeah, I did In my head, i know I did, and so I got to make it right, even if you didn't notice it

00:34:45.53
Bill
yeah i did

00:34:49.54
Bill
Right. Right. Which is, which is good because I mean, even even think about that is the, the level of our fuck up and fuck up this.

00:34:55.25
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:34:58.90
Mike
Yes, that works.

00:34:58.94
Bill
Okay. The level of our fucking up is, is so minute these days for the most part we, I know both of us keep having to add for the most part.

00:35:01.34
Mike
Yes.

00:35:04.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:08.10
Bill
Yes, yes, yes.

00:35:08.14
Mike
Right? Yeah.

00:35:10.39
Bill
For the most part is so minute that sometimes people are like, well, I didn't think you acted a certain way.

00:35:11.68
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:15.70
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:15.91
Bill
They're like, I mean, good. Okay.

00:35:18.97
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:35:19.18
Bill
But still.

00:35:20.09
Mike
i'm glad it did I'm glad it didn't, you know, fuck you up, but it fucked me up because I'm not supposed to be that way anymore.

00:35:20.25
Bill
but

00:35:23.61
Bill
Right. Right.

00:35:26.87
Mike
So I'm going to fix it whether you think I need to or not.

00:35:31.18
Bill
Right.

00:35:31.81
Mike
Yep.

00:35:32.09
Bill
Yeah. And I, I woke up this morning and I, I mean, literally from the, the minute, literally the fucking minute that I, that I opened my eyes, I was pissed this morning and I don't know why.

00:35:41.17
Mike
Hmm.

00:35:41.49
Bill
I'm just fucking angry.

00:35:41.89
Mike
Hmm.

00:35:43.76
Bill
And I'm like, what the fuck?

00:35:44.03
Mike
Hmm.

00:35:45.56
Bill
You know, I'm like, it's just one of these moods and there's nothing.

00:35:45.85
Mike
Yeah.

00:35:48.28
Bill
It's like everything. It's like the, yeah you know, the wind was bothering me, you know? and I mean, every little piece of whatever, I mean, and I'm just, you know i just do my myself, my stuff in the morning.

00:35:51.90
Mike
hu

00:35:56.56
Bill
I mean, you know, Kathy and I chit chat back and forth, not a lot. I mean, I don't have time and she doesn't have time.

00:35:59.32
Mike
Right.

00:36:01.08
Bill
which is, which is a good thing.

00:36:01.23
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:02.60
Bill
I, I wasn't in the mood to sit there and talk to anyone for a long period of time. So I didn't know what the fuck was wrong with me, you know?

00:36:08.12
Mike
Right.

00:36:08.38
Bill
And I mean, again, I can, ah I can go, well, okay, this and this and blah, blah, blah.

00:36:08.51
Mike
Yeah.

00:36:12.38
Bill
But all the, all the, this and this and the blah, blah, blahs are always in my life or have been, you know, for a relatively, you know, period for a relative period of time.

00:36:13.11
Mike
Right.

00:36:16.34
Mike
Right.

00:36:20.56
Bill
And then, uh, it just, I don't by the time, uh, by the time lunch came around, I'm like, I'm like, oh wait, I'm not, I'm not fucking irritated anymore. like, what what did I do? What what happened? And I still i have no idea.

00:36:32.44
Bill
that There was nothing in particular. Unless I fucking dreamed some fucked up shit and didn't know it when I woke up, I'm like, I don't know.

00:36:39.26
Mike
Right.

00:36:40.25
Bill
but um but i But I know what to do if I'm in a fucking mood like that and I'm around people. I just, you know, I keep to myself with short answers. I try not to engage too much because I don't want to snap at somebody, especially when, if I if i know one that I'm in a bad mood, that's easier to deal with.

00:36:51.29
Mike
Right.

00:36:55.24
Bill
But if I don't know why I'm in a bad mood,

00:36:55.54
Mike
o Right.

00:36:57.34
Bill
or why i'm in a mood you know um i wouldn't even say bad mood when i'm just got some shit going on and i don't know why then i need to be really fucking careful because i don't know if i don't know what even is wrong with me i don't know what's going to set me off what's wrong with me yeah but uh i i that was a i i really enjoyed the reading i like i really like oscar wilde i love when uh because he's in he's in some of the other books too right is he in god grant me i'm guessing

00:36:57.47
Mike
Right. Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:37:03.06
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:37:08.83
Mike
What the hell is wrong with me? Mm-hmm. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

00:37:18.97
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. yeah there

00:37:25.46
Bill
But yeah, I love quotes. I see them all over the social media and Facebook and Instagram and blah, blah, blah from time to time.

00:37:32.15
Mike
off

00:37:32.86
Bill
But yeah, I yeah i always enjoy I enjoy them a lot. So what else? anything Anything that you think we missed on the reading?

00:37:39.80
Mike
a

00:37:43.80
Mike
yeah No, I think...

00:37:45.14
Bill
ah

00:37:45.51
Mike
Yeah,

00:37:47.73
Bill
That was your AI scan of the of the reading?

00:37:49.82
Mike
yeah yeah, yeah, you know.

00:37:50.09
Bill
Yeah. hey

00:37:52.66
Mike
um um Okay, so did this last one. ah We cannot hold values and then repeatedly justify breaking them. Right. You know, which is, yeah again, how we used to live.

00:38:02.81
Bill
Right.

00:38:06.05
Mike
Right. You know, yes, we had, you know, even in the in the depths of our fucked upness, um we kind of sort of had some values.

00:38:12.10
Bill
Right.

00:38:17.06
Mike
But um but yeah, we just constantly, you know, um it's like, you know, you hear all the time in leads and stuff, you know, there's is a line I'm not going to cross, you know, and then you cross that fucking line.

00:38:29.72
Mike
Um, you know, I mean, yeah, I was, you know, I was never going to shoot drugs. Um, you know, um and I mean, I was around people that did it all the time for a long time. Um, it was solid 10 years or so, you know, I mean, cause I didn't shoot up for the first time till was like 30, early thirties.

00:38:45.72
Mike
Um, yeah.

00:38:45.91
Bill
Really? OK.

00:38:47.04
Mike
And, and, um, you know, I mean, my standard line was God gave me enough holes to put drugs into my body. I don't need to make more.

00:38:54.62
Bill
Right.

00:38:54.68
Mike
Um, which I thought was cute and clever and it kind of is.

00:38:57.72
Bill
It is.

00:38:58.28
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:58.32
Bill
It's really.

00:38:59.06
Mike
Right. But, um, but yeah, you know, again, those lines, right. You know, I'm not crossing this line. I'm not crossing this line. Fucking A man. We walked right over them, you know, over and over and over again, you know?

00:39:07.89
Bill
Right.

00:39:09.90
Mike
So yeah, you know, um, if we didn't, again, value to our actions that we became better persons because of them, um, Yeah.

00:39:20.67
Mike
You know, um yes, i we have these lines now and we don't cross them for a very good reason. And it brings us back to that self-respect. And, you know, we can't we can't have values.

00:39:31.23
Mike
We can't hold values if we continually justify breaking them.

00:39:35.96
Bill
Right.

00:39:36.02
Mike
You know, oh, well, it's it's okay. Yeah, yeah, I not know I'm not supposed to lie, but fuck, you know.

00:39:40.80
Bill
Yeah. mean, yeah. Yeah.

00:39:42.50
Mike
It's not really hurting anybody. or

00:39:45.34
Bill
mean, it's fine.

00:39:45.46
Mike
You know, I'm not going to get caught. mirror or Yeah, no, no, no, no. I'm not supposed to lie, so I don't fucking lie.

00:39:52.61
Bill
Right.

00:39:53.05
Mike
much

00:39:54.68
Bill
yeah i mean yeah yeah i mean it's why the

00:39:56.38
Mike
Right. You know, again, you know, it's in the reading and it's, it's all over all the literature everywhere. We're not fucking perfect. We are not saints. What's the point?

00:40:06.62
Bill
hey

00:40:07.82
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:40:09.91
Bill
Yeah. And, you know, the, uh, and we, we started hearing that, uh, right away when we, when we first obviously got, uh, you know, came in and got sober, um, you know, the, the yet's and, and the, the thing with us, I, I mean, all the things that we've learned, well, I mean, you, you learned a lot of things, like I said, you've, I mean, we've already talked about this openly.

00:40:17.34
Mike
right yeah

00:40:27.05
Bill
So have you, you've done all the drugs, you know, four times at least, you know, so I've done none of them, but well, you know, I'm just number, a number of times repeatedly.

00:40:29.27
Mike
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Four. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm.

00:40:39.03
Bill
But um if i if I did ever relapse, and we've already figured all this stuff out because we talked about it. If I relapse, it's going to be a point where i don't give a fuck and I'm not coming back because I can't face anyone anymore.

00:40:45.34
Mike
right.

00:40:47.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:50.00
Bill
So I would.

00:40:50.18
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:40:51.86
Bill
It's not even an if. I would try everything I could.

00:40:55.38
Mike
Sure.

00:40:55.96
Bill
i mean, why the fuck wouldn't I? you know I mean, at that point, because I know for a fact that I'm not coming back.

00:40:57.40
Mike
right.

00:41:01.86
Bill
I'm not... I'm done. I've given up for whatever happened or whatever, whatever tripped in my head.

00:41:04.16
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:07.22
Bill
i don't give a fuck anymore.

00:41:07.32
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:08.38
Bill
So why wouldn't I do all the things, you know, I there would be no question there would be it it would be all these all these yes would be when when can I which is which is number one.

00:41:08.76
Mike
Right. I don't know. Why wouldn't you? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yep.

00:41:17.94
Mike
a

00:41:21.49
Bill
And I believe that I believe all of that. I joke about it We joke about it. But I truly believe all of that, you know, deep down in my, in my being that, um, if, if I relapse, it's going to be, it's not just going to be this, oh, I slipped because I, whatever.

00:41:36.07
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:41:36.34
Bill
No, there ain't no fucking slipping. There's a, there's a rocket sled to fucking wherever, you know, and I'm, and I'm on it and, and I've given up, I've given up if that happens.

00:41:40.64
Mike
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

00:41:45.46
Bill
And, uh, that's why, that's why I keep doing these things every day.

00:41:45.82
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:41:48.37
Bill
Cause I don't want to, I don't want to be that person. You know, I just, I just don't, you know, so.

00:41:51.06
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Plus, you know, I like my life today.

00:41:55.99
Bill
Yeah, I do too.

00:41:56.57
Mike
ah I don't need to get fucked up.

00:41:58.78
Bill
Right.

00:41:58.81
Mike
Imagine that.

00:42:00.28
Bill
Yeah, I like my life and I like the the opportunities I have and I love the people in my life and, you know, family and grandkids and, you know, all these different things.

00:42:03.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:42:07.58
Mike
well Yeah.

00:42:08.40
Bill
And yeah, I got, to I mean, literally I have too much to, too much to look forward to, you know, which is, that's crazy.

00:42:14.62
Mike
Yeah. Too much to lose.

00:42:15.35
Bill
yeah

00:42:15.98
Mike
Yep.

00:42:16.34
Bill
Yeah, yeah, too much to lose and yeah, too much to lose and too much to look forward to. But yeah, exactly. So we're good, good on the reading part.

00:42:23.06
Mike
We are good.

00:42:24.54
Bill
Okay. So in what I was talking about with the, and you know, you know, the, you know who the individual is and i'm I'm not going to bring it up. I'm not even going to bring up the circumstance or anything like that because I don't want to pinpoint um in any way, shape or form, you know, obviously who the individual is, but.

00:42:38.02
Mike
Right.

00:42:40.18
Bill
So in, let's say, in recent months, and Mike and I had to encounter a person that that I know is is kind of acting a fool, and I'll just put it that way, you know, to to individuals that that I'm also, you know, close to or know of and blah, blah, blah.

00:42:45.20
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:52.89
Mike
Right.

00:42:58.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:58.45
Bill
And, you know, so basically it's the, what, everything we just talked about, about not fucking with people doing the right thing and blah, blah, blah.

00:42:58.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:05.25
Mike
Yep.

00:43:05.46
Bill
You know, that this individual is not doing the right thing, fucking with people, blah, blah, blah. But the worst part about it is the individual is, you know, kind of putting on this, um, this holier than thou type of front, except to, yeah, you know kind of like we used to do.

00:43:19.54
Mike
Of course.

00:43:21.92
Bill
you know the what the With the exception of the fuck-up-ness with the other individual or individuals that I know you know that i'm that I'm also involved with.

00:43:22.33
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:43:29.59
Mike
h

00:43:31.68
Bill
and it was um And what I was telling Mike is that

00:43:31.98
Mike
Right.

00:43:36.08
Bill
It's the first time that I can recall um in years. And I'm not talking about a couple of years. I mean, it's it's been so long since I've had to be in that circumstance to be around somebody that I know is fucking up or acting a fool.

00:43:45.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:50.17
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:43:51.06
Bill
and And I think the person probably has to have an inkling that I might know. um I have to, you know, but, but then I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be any particular way to this person.

00:43:56.56
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Right.

00:44:03.88
Bill
I wanted to, I wanted to, to the high road. I'm all the fuck. I'm all over it, you know, and I don't want to, I just don't want to be that person today.

00:44:08.86
Mike
Right. Right.

00:44:12.58
Bill
Even though it's, I'm not doing anything. I just don't want to be that, you know, and it was really hard because I can't, number one, can't remember.

00:44:15.45
Mike
Right.

00:44:18.30
Bill
So it's been, that long ago that I can't even remember last time I've had to do it. But Mike and I were just kind of talking about, you know, just how difficult it is to be in that circumstance.

00:44:22.55
Mike
Right.

00:44:27.44
Bill
Because, I mean, your point, correct me if I'm wrong, is that if you have somebody like that that you know of in your life that's that's doing that, they're they're not in your life, right?

00:44:35.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:38.58
Mike
Right, right.

00:44:39.58
Bill
okay

00:44:39.58
Mike
Yeah, but yes. Right, but, you know, exactly. and and And clearly, you know, it's not like somebody you have to deal with on a daily basis or anything, but, you know, right, and you wouldn't.

00:44:48.41
Bill
Correct, correct.

00:44:51.93
Mike
um But...

00:44:53.37
Bill
Right.

00:44:54.65
Mike
But it is someone that you, you know, have to deal with. And I mean, you know, there's there's some ancillary people in my life like that, too. um You know, clearly do not deal with them on a daily basis or weekly or even sometimes monthly.

00:45:08.29
Bill
Right.

00:45:09.09
Mike
um And that's fine.

00:45:10.97
Bill
right

00:45:11.05
Mike
There's a reason for that. Um. But you do still have to because of relation but mutual relationships with these people.

00:45:21.06
Mike
um you know You do have to come in contact with them occasionally. and it's its you know I mean, it all comes down to... You know you hear this in Leeds all the time, right? like Let the clown finish his show.

00:45:33.17
Bill
Right.

00:45:33.30
Mike
um and And sometimes you just you have to.

00:45:33.56
Bill
Yeah, that's a good point. Right.

00:45:36.74
Mike
And and yet it's not a show that you want to watch. and You certainly didn't buy a ticket for the show. But... um But yet there's the show. ah You are looking at it through no fault of your own.

00:45:46.07
Bill
Right.

00:45:49.83
Mike
Or maybe, you know, and again, you're right.

00:45:50.35
Bill
Right.

00:45:52.06
Mike
You're little four step action, little 10 step action. Well, inventory.

00:45:55.22
Bill
right

00:45:55.91
Mike
Yes. You know, there's a there's a partner somehow, you know, some way there's we have a part that we play in the clown show.

00:46:03.42
Bill
Right.

00:46:03.45
Mike
no matter what the clown show is. all

00:46:08.34
Mike
Right. But I mean, you know, yes, and it is difficult. and And especially when the clown is, you know, negatively affecting someone that you care about.

00:46:17.71
Bill
Right.

00:46:17.83
Mike
Sucks. um But, you know, powerless over people, places and things, right? You know, I mean, there's, you know, yeah you're not doing anything wrong.

00:46:24.71
Bill
Right.

00:46:28.35
Mike
um And yes, it it hurts to ah watch it happen, but um you're not causing the pain. And when you really comes down to it, there's nothing you can do to stop it, which really fucking sucks.

00:46:44.54
Mike
um

00:46:44.86
Bill
Right, right, right.

00:46:45.24
Mike
But, but it just is, you know, you just stand off on the side and, and you know, be there, be an example and be, know, know that the person that is being negatively effective can come to you for some relief.

00:46:59.29
Bill
Right.

00:46:59.32
Mike
That's all we can fucking do.

00:47:01.08
Bill
And, you know, that's exactly what what I was thinking is that, you know, and ah but well, you're the one that said it out how many months ago? when When did I become the fucking responsible one, you know?

00:47:09.11
Mike
Right.

00:47:10.20
Bill
And, you know, and you said that, I was just thinking when you were talking about like, like, yeah, when when did I become the person that you could lead on, you know?

00:47:15.61
Mike
mrs Yeah, right.

00:47:17.85
Bill
And i'm like I'm like, Jesus Christ.

00:47:18.19
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:47:19.41
Bill
But but yeah, I mean, I i i don't know you know. Game recognizes game, right?

00:47:24.98
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:47:25.07
Bill
you know So I i see it and i understand I understand that game.

00:47:29.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:47:30.47
Bill
It's a game that I don't want to play anymore, but it's a game that I played very well you know for years.

00:47:33.82
Mike
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:35.32
Bill
And i was I was a star of that of one of you know that that game for years and went around you know hurting people and didn't give a flying fuck, you know?

00:47:37.75
Mike
o

00:47:43.08
Mike
Yep.

00:47:43.83
Bill
um But yes, I can be that other person now. And I don't even have to i don't even have to try to be the better person.

00:47:47.12
Mike
Yeah.

00:47:50.80
Bill
you know that's like That's the cool part is that I also don't want to be that.

00:47:51.00
Mike
this is Right.

00:47:54.92
Bill
you know I don't want to be like, oh, who whatever the circumstances in life.

00:47:55.38
Mike
h

00:47:58.84
Bill
Oh, you got you got shit on whoever it is. you know It's a family, a friend, whatever.

00:48:01.24
Mike
Right.

00:48:02.86
Bill
Oh, you got shit on by this person? Look at me. i'm I'm not that way. This is you can come to me and I, oh, wait, let me just...

00:48:06.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:08.84
Bill
Yeah, pat and there we go.

00:48:09.39
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

00:48:10.72
Bill
I'm just both hands pat myself on the back. Look at me. of All I can do for you.

00:48:14.04
Mike
Yes. No.

00:48:15.02
Bill
So I don't even have to be that guy. All I got to do is be me.

00:48:17.43
Mike
No.

00:48:18.77
Bill
And that's enough, you know, for, you know, to, to, to not have to be that.

00:48:18.97
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh.

00:48:23.64
Bill
Like I like to hit the cloud show reference.

00:48:23.80
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:25.46
Bill
That's perfect. You know?

00:48:26.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:27.06
Bill
Yeah. You'd buy tickets. show But every once in a while you turn the you're like, ah, fuck, I'm at the goddamn show. Son of a, son of a bitch.

00:48:34.47
Mike
Yep. Ah, fuck. The circus is in town again.

00:48:36.76
Bill
Yeah. that da da and edit ah that dead ah Like,

00:48:37.87
Mike
damn it.

00:48:38.27
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:48:42.07
Bill
yeah There's a fucking clown riding a goddamn unicycle with a fucking monkey. Look at that.

00:48:47.54
Mike
Look at that. true

00:48:50.49
Bill
But no, it was just, I just, I thought it was interesting to bring up on here.

00:48:50.83
Mike
Yep.

00:48:54.17
Bill
And I completely forgot about writing it down, but I'm glad I thought about it because it's it.

00:48:54.53
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:00.26
Bill
I think that anyone who's got a little bit of it, I, I hope that if I, if I was, or when we were, you know, two, three years sober,

00:49:05.78
Mike
Right.

00:49:09.75
Bill
four five years sober, I, I hope that I would have recognized the same thing. I think I would have, I wasn't, I mean, I'm not, I'm certainly not healed or cured today, but, um, I think I was well enough at that timeframe.

00:49:14.17
Mike
Right.

00:49:18.17
Mike
Right.

00:49:20.95
Bill
I think we were, you know, where I think I would have recognized, you know, the same thing and still been able to be that, that same person.

00:49:22.42
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:49:27.64
Mike
this

00:49:27.84
Bill
Um, I think maybe not as, but I mean, yeah,

00:49:29.27
Mike
yeah, ah yeah, you know, I mean, I, I'd look back at, you know, yeah, yeah. Two, three, four years, five years, whatever. i was still, you know, under the tent.

00:49:40.98
Mike
Um, in parts of my life, I absolutely was under that circus tent.

00:49:41.21
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:49:46.18
Mike
I wasn't in the center ring anymore, but, uh, I was in the tent. Absolutely. You know, and, and today I'm fucking not in the goddamn tent. So, um, well, you know, it's, it's, it's again, progress, not perfection, right?

00:49:54.79
Bill
Right.

00:50:00.02
Bill
And you know what, it just, it just reminded me, and again, not going to bring up the person, but I, when I was in, when I was in Madison, I called you and I'm like, I'm like this, this thing just came back into my life that I thought was gone and blah, blah, blah.

00:50:03.42
Mike
Right.

00:50:07.08
Mike
Hmm.

00:50:11.13
Mike
Right. Uh-huh.

00:50:12.68
Bill
in it it fuck It, it, it just about knocked me on my ass, you know, emotionally, you know?

00:50:15.77
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, right.

00:50:17.80
Bill
And I mean, today it's, I wouldn't, wouldn't necessarily, not that I wouldn't think twice about it, but you know, I've, I've been there and, you know, kind of done that sort of thing for, know, a you know number of years and, yeah So, yeah, i mean, i I don't think – I think I still would have been a positive influence, just not.

00:50:23.03
Mike
Hmm.

00:50:25.50
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:31.51
Bill
But like like you said, yeah hanging around the outside of the tent still.

00:50:31.58
Mike
Sure. Yeah.

00:50:34.59
Bill
Maybe he's still under the tent, but on the ah on the outskirts a little bit.

00:50:36.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:50:37.95
Bill
did not Not necessarily playing with the clown.

00:50:38.04
Mike
Yes.

00:50:40.60
Bill
I'm not on the unicycle next to next to the clown.

00:50:42.07
Mike
No, not in not in any of the rings, but you know still sitting, you know, probably under the bleachers somewhere.

00:50:43.04
Bill
But At least up in the nosebleeds going, yeah, I'm still here, motherfucker.

00:50:48.86
Mike
Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep. a aha

00:50:54.23
Bill
I'm still here.

00:50:56.12
Mike
yep

00:50:56.70
Bill
yeah God damn it. I thought maybe I thought I was better than that when I was at that at that at that age, quote unquote, of of my sobriety.

00:50:57.75
Mike
who Nah. Right. Exactly.

00:51:03.56
Bill
Right.

00:51:04.12
Mike
and And, you know, certainly better than you were. You weren't in the rings anymore. You weren't juggling anything. But, um...

00:51:09.69
Bill
Well, I mean, you know, we're always so he's juggling some stuff, you know.

00:51:12.23
Mike
Right. Right.

00:51:15.03
Bill
like yes I can never remember the line, but the John Candy and Steve Martin in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles went, like, well you yeah, you play with your balls a lot. And Steve Martin, I do not play with my balls.

00:51:28.38
Mike
he

00:51:28.39
Bill
he What does he say? You got more ball handling time than Larry Bird or something like that? and he's like He's like, you know what I want?

00:51:32.66
Mike
It's something like that.

00:51:34.63
Bill
is that you You know what I need? He goes, I want an extra set of hands.

00:51:37.72
Mike
a

00:51:37.87
Bill
Something like that. That's all good stuff. So, okay.

00:51:41.82
Mike
this

00:51:42.08
Bill
On on that note, on on ball juggling, looking at the at the time, what do what do you think, Mikey?

00:51:44.28
Mike
Yes. I think it is time for us to take a quick break. We will be right back with more Sober Not Mature, Juggling, and Otherwise after these words from our sponsors.

00:52:07.40
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. And again, the fucking math, man. It was it was right on the, it went from 51 to 52.

00:52:11.59
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:15.53
Mike
Not

00:52:15.55
Bill
I'm like, Jesus Christ, I got to do the fucking math. And I even went over because i'm like, this seems like a long time. Let me talk again.

00:52:21.55
Mike
today.

00:52:22.52
Bill
But anyhow, anyhow. So, um so yeah, no more no more clowns. Hopefully no more circuses, at least not at least not large ones or big ones. But um did real quick before I forget, because I made a note of this before, too.

00:52:29.50
Mike
yeah not today

00:52:34.39
Bill
Did you see um Shirley's post about um Heather's episode last week?

00:52:41.34
Mike
No, Shirley. don't even know who the hell Shirley.

00:52:44.55
Bill
Shirley, our listener, our...

00:52:45.24
Mike
oh Oh, yes. yeah No, no, I did not. Shirley. Don't call me Shirley.

00:52:51.35
Bill
and She listens on a regular basis. and She's sit there with her mouth wide open right now.

00:52:53.50
Mike
if Yeah, right.

00:52:55.23
Bill
You don't know who Shirley is.

00:52:56.28
Mike
Okay, i had say i don't I barely know who the fuck I am.

00:53:00.34
Bill
I know it's just funny. So it's okay. Shirley, we love you. We do. We we really do.

00:53:06.10
Mike
We do.

00:53:06.21
Bill
And we're going to get to, I actually messaged her the other day or texted her. And I said, I said, yeah, we get, we should do. Cause she's a, did I tell you she's a hiker too? You knew that, didn't you?

00:53:14.84
Mike
ah Yeah.

00:53:15.03
Bill
yeah Yeah, she does. She goes around this kind of same thing as I do, but kicking around her place. I'm like, I want to go up lower parts of Michigan at some point, too.

00:53:25.73
Bill
And I have been a little bit. But I told her, I said, find a cool trail, somewhere out of the ordinary that you think I'd like, and let me know. I said, well, we should go hit a trail this summer. So we will.

00:53:34.70
Mike
Yeah.

00:53:35.35
Bill
And we're going to actually do that at some point.

00:53:35.46
Mike
Cool.

00:53:37.33
Bill
Yeah. So, yeah, just one of the episode clips that I posted. This was from Shirley. Heather is so relatable in how she describes her inner world and wanderlust. Also cheers to adoptive mothers everywhere. This, and that that was in capital letters. All capital letters, T-H-I-S. This is why you guys have a great podcast. Real, honest slices of life, or slices of life from so many different sectors of the sober community.

00:54:04.05
Bill
So, you know, given a sense, she does. I mean, she gives us nice little, you know, mean, it's these emotional strokes every once in a while, which we appreciate.

00:54:11.61
Mike
yeah Absolutely.

00:54:11.83
Bill
You know, but it it is. it It's nice. i thought of I thought about it, first of all, because I took it and I took the post and I put it in a nice little thing and reposted it because I did. I just thought it was, I thought it was nice. um You know, but the one thing that she said, though, you know, different slices of people from the sober community.

00:54:27.97
Bill
I'm like, regardless of where, I mean, and I know she's sincere with it, but um i think that's I think that's a great way to put it because you think about a lot of the guests we've had. um Some of them are not.

00:54:38.77
Bill
I mean, clearly not by choice. These people just, you know. fucking, you know, come to us or friends of ours that are doing weird things, weird, but cool, you know, um, out of the ordinary, but cool things, you know, and, um, and then just people that end up, you know, just messaging us and and we get on and we end up talking to, you know, really ridiculously interesting people.

00:54:45.02
Mike
Right. Yes. Uh-huh. right yes ahha

00:54:57.52
Bill
Um, and not just your, your same old cookie cutter people all the time, which I, I think is great.

00:55:00.95
Mike
Right.

00:55:03.20
Bill
You know, I mean, it's, uh, and, and we didn't try to do it.

00:55:03.99
Mike
Yeah.

00:55:07.37
Mike
Cool. Ah.

00:55:08.49
Bill
Yeah. Which, again, is wonderful. But so anyhow, Shirley, I appreciate the comment. We appreciate the comment. I know I was going to say i I saw that Heather liked that, I think, on Facebook. So I know that Heather saw it also. she i think she even loved it. She hearted it. so But, yeah, just it's ah it was a great comment.

00:55:29.30
Bill
So Shirley, you know, that Shirley that we know, that friend Shirley.

00:55:31.77
Mike
Yes, yes, you know.

00:55:33.32
Bill
I'm just going to –

00:55:34.33
Mike
Yes, I do now.

00:55:36.60
Bill
I know. I'm just fucking with you. I know. It's just out the blue. I get it. I get it. Maybe I should have said a fan girl, surely.

00:55:40.54
Mike
Yep.

00:55:42.32
Bill
Should I refer to her that way?

00:55:42.55
Mike
Right, yeah, then I dive would have known then, right off the bat.

00:55:45.02
Bill
God damn it. See, okay. Surely that's my fault. Now that it's not Mike's fault.

00:55:48.15
Mike
No, it's it's Mike's fault.

00:55:49.29
Bill
It's my fault. I mean, how much there.

00:55:51.75
Mike
right Mike doesn't fucking have any clue what's going on anywhere, so it's you know it's Mike's fault.

00:55:55.43
Bill
God, God. Okay. Except, except the help. I was trying to help you.

00:56:00.20
Mike
I'm taking responsibility for my inaction.

00:56:04.66
Bill
Fine. All right. So, um, God, a couple of different things here. So, ah you know, this is the, this is one thing on the, um, from one of the readings and, uh, we're still in the, it's still in the fourth month and fourth step and blah, blah, blah, all that good stuff.

00:56:18.96
Mike
Ah, sure.

00:56:19.34
Bill
So, um, I ran across something from keep it simple. and I just kind of wanted to run this by you because I thought it was interesting if nothing else to think about. So it said, we avoid the fourth step.

00:56:30.29
Bill
We put it off. We're scared of what we will find in us.

00:56:32.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:33.45
Bill
Okay.

00:56:33.99
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:34.62
Bill
So I guess I'll just ask that the general sense. I know we've talked about our experiences and whatever, but do you, do you agree with that, that we avoid put off and are scared of what we will find inside of us?

00:56:40.52
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:46.18
Bill
Do you agree with any of that or all of that?

00:56:48.43
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. um Yeah, you know, and I mean, you figure, well, it's in, you know, the first year, um generally. And, um yeah, you know, we're just, we' we're coming to and, and you know, and remembering things.

00:57:03.69
Mike
And, you know, the last thing and we want to do is dive fucking deeper and into it.

00:57:07.63
Bill
Right.

00:57:07.74
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:11.26
Mike
But again, you know the the whole point of taking an inventory is finding you know credits and debits in the inventory. So you're finding the good stuff too. um you know I mean, most people...

00:57:22.94
Mike
you consumed in very early sobriety with all the bad shit you did, you know?

00:57:27.54
Bill
right

00:57:28.06
Mike
um And so, yeah, taking a deeper look at that scares the hell out of us. um You know, it's bad enough when we're just getting flashes of it, you know, 60, 90 days of of what true assholes we were.

00:57:41.62
Mike
um so yeah you know of course taking a deep dive into ourselves and looking at exactly what we are scares the shit out of us um but you know clearly it's it's something we have to do to to put it behind us and move on um you know and of course yeah hindsight's 2020 yeah we look back and go god damn yeah we had to do that Fuck.

00:58:07.41
Mike
yeah Get our shit in order.

00:58:09.14
Bill
yeah Right.

00:58:11.17
Mike
um you know, but yeah yeah, looking at it from the other side of it, look it as something that we have to do in the future. Yeah. It scares the hell out of us, man. That's natural. Um,

00:58:22.04
Mike
But, you know, and as someone who has who did it and who, of course, now does a daily inventory, um it's it's a good thing, man. It makes your life better. So just fucking get it done. Mm-hmm.

00:58:36.63
Bill
Yeah. And you know, the when i when I first wrote that down and I was thinking about, i once again, I know I say this all the time, but I try really, really hard not to think too deeply about this because the surface thought was, well, we we were also, you know, had this mindset that, well, we have to do it so we can get up there tell our story.

00:58:45.27
Mike
o

00:58:53.21
Mike
Right.

00:58:53.62
Bill
You know, we got to do the fourth and fifth and we can't, you know, we're not allowed to.

00:58:53.95
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:58:57.69
Bill
And just as a reminder for anyone, either reminder or to just let everyone know again, in and it's recommended i think probably in other in other areas of the country too but um you know certainly in cleveland if you until you do your fourth and your fifth step um you are not allowed to lead a meeting of alcoholics anonymous that's usually the the rule um and it was we was told to both of us you know so we were trying to kind of rush it in to get it done by our by our one year because you got to be a year sober also um to lead you know so we're

00:59:06.23
Mike
no Right.

00:59:11.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:14.83
Mike
Right.

00:59:18.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:21.39
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:59:25.08
Mike
Right, yeah. All these unwritten rules, but, you know, they're kind of there for a reason, right?

00:59:29.69
Bill
Yeah, they're there for a really, really good fucking reason.

00:59:29.91
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:59:31.95
Bill
Because, I mean, even even in a year, I mean, I think back, it i and I do, I jokingly call it my blackout lead because I have no idea what I said.

00:59:34.71
Mike
Yeah.

00:59:38.97
Mike
Right.

00:59:39.83
Bill
I don't know how long I led. You but you made one point that you that you brought up and you you stood up and and made a comment about. But other than i don't know what I talked about. And I don't think I had a lot to talk about because, you know, I mean, we had a lot of things go on in that timeframe, but still, I mean, a year is not really a long time to really, to get a really good hold on.

00:59:50.82
Mike
Right.

00:59:54.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:59:57.52
Mike
Right.

01:00:00.00
Bill
i mean, we, I mean, our heads didn't even pop out of our asses. Mine didn't until I was, you know, fucking nine months sober, you know, and it, you know, for the first two or three months, we don't know what the fuck we're doing.

01:00:05.50
Mike
Right.

01:00:09.99
Bill
You know, I mean, literally at all, you know, so, i mean, what are you going talk about up there?

01:00:10.04
Mike
Right.

01:00:14.95
Bill
You know?

01:00:15.27
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:15.83
Bill
And I think the the thing that I said it was something along the lines of that I don't want, I think I said the, and I've said it since then because you made a point of it.

01:00:15.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:24.23
Bill
And i i didn't I didn't know that I said it, but it it is how I feel.

01:00:24.68
Mike
Hmm. Sure.

01:00:27.75
Bill
um I don't want to forget everything that I've learned. I'm not afraid of drinking anymore.

01:00:31.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:33.15
Bill
I'm not afraid of relapse. I'm not afraid of slips. I'm not afraid of any of that shit.

01:00:37.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:37.55
Bill
I'm certainly not afraid of fucking triggers because we don't believe in them.

01:00:39.74
Mike
Right.

01:00:40.49
Bill
But what I'm afraid of is forgetting.

01:00:40.77
Mike
Right.

01:00:42.70
Bill
And now, granted, that might seem like the same thing, but it's not.

01:00:42.78
Mike
Yeah.

01:00:46.02
Bill
You know, it's not.

01:00:46.35
Mike
Mm-mm.

01:00:47.22
Bill
It's if I if I forget who I am and the easiest way for me to forget who I am is exactly what we started talking about with the reading is, you know, don't pick up the garbage.

01:00:54.79
Mike
Right.

01:00:56.77
Bill
You know, don't make my bed.

01:00:57.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:58.17
Bill
Don't, you know, start cutting back on my readings, doing all the taking away things like that. It's going to take away from me. And sooner or later, going to forget that I'm not supposed to drink.

01:01:07.00
Mike
Right.

01:01:07.14
Bill
Yeah. It's not going to be like, you know, I get a, I get a case of the buckets or, you know, something triggered me. um I just forgot because of the reason I forgot is because I stopped doing all this shit, you know?

01:01:19.32
Mike
Right.

01:01:20.16
Bill
mean, think about, think about something that you haven't, can't even think of an example, but you know, some task that you haven't done in a while and then you start to do it again. You're like, I don't even fucking remember how to do this anymore.

01:01:30.97
Bill
You know, I don't remember. I can't turn on my computer. I can't drive my car. I can't, whatever it is, you know?

01:01:35.16
Mike
right

01:01:35.85
Bill
And you don't remember it because you haven't done it. But if you do it on a daily basis, it's just, it's just fucking habit. You're like, I don't even know what I, I don't even know what I did today, you know, on, on my computer at work because it's just, I know how to work the system.

01:01:41.59
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:48.37
Mike
Yeah.

01:01:48.76
Bill
You know, I just do it.

01:01:50.18
Mike
Oh, yeah, absolutely. it's I mean, right. You know, whenever I have a, you know, I'll have a week off or something or, you know, a vacation or blah blah, blah, whatever. You know, when I get back in the truck after whatever, however long it is, I joke to myself all the time, right? I'm like, I i remember how to do this. Yeah.

01:02:09.66
Mike
Yeah. And, you know, and then, hey, guess what? I remember how to do it. But, um yeah, you know, but I do.

01:02:13.05
Bill
Right.

01:02:15.02
Mike
I joke to myself in that very way. It's, you know, yes, I haven't done this and in seven days or 10 days or whatever the fuck it's been, two weeks, you know.

01:02:25.43
Mike
Right. I wonder if I remember how to do this. You know, it's same thing.

01:02:28.41
Bill
hey

01:02:29.58
Mike
with Yeah, all the rest of it, like you said, though. But if we're doing it consistently on a daily basis or, you know, hourly basis or, you know, depending on what it is. um Yeah, if we're doing it all the time, then, you know, yeah again, telling the truth, you know, not stealing, ah playing by the rules, whatever the fuck those are.

01:02:49.62
Bill
Right.

01:02:49.86
Mike
Um, yeah, you know, right. If we're doing them consistently, it's just the way we live our lives. That's it. We, that's the way we live our lives. And, and we don't have to even really think about it.

01:03:01.01
Mike
You know, I mean, i don't have to, and I still have to think about telling the truth. Um, but that's okay.

01:03:05.91
Bill
Right. Yeah, or not or yeah or or like not blowing up at somebody or not not letting this this shit just spit out of my mouth that, you know, these these vile words that I want to have, you know, come shooting out of my mouth all the time.

01:03:09.10
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

01:03:16.95
Mike
Hmm.

01:03:19.85
Bill
I have that ability now to, you know, as they say, practice to pause or, you know, think before you speak or all those sort of things.

01:03:24.41
Mike
Right.

01:03:25.85
Bill
But, yeah, I mean, it's – But the same deal, though, with that is that we trained ourselves that, you know, we we think first and then rather than shoot first and ask questions later.

01:03:36.85
Bill
But but anything like that, you know, it's just a matter of, um I don't know, it's ah it's a matter of this this repetition that we deal with on a daily basis and teaching ourselves literally where it just becomes, you know, I mean, second nature, you know, so.

01:03:36.98
Mike
Right.

01:03:48.25
Mike
Yeah. Right. Yep. yeah

01:03:51.77
Bill
but, uh, but yeah, I mean the, the four step thing. And, uh, I, I guess once again, every, I wasn't thinking about it in that, in that manner, like, uh, you know, again, it's scary and putting it off and, um, well, and we did, I mean, we, you know, we sat down with our, you know, both of us sat down with our sponsors at what six, seven months, whatever it was, you know, and we didn't do it until, you know, another, another five months later, maybe it was four months.

01:04:01.57
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right.

01:04:12.27
Bill
Was it four months?

01:04:13.46
Mike
I don't know. Mm-hmm.

01:04:15.86
Bill
we waited We waited.

01:04:16.13
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:04:17.21
Bill
If it wasn't six months that we waited to do our our fourth and fifth step to complete them, it was pretty goddamn close.

01:04:22.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:23.53
Bill
So, yeah, both of us both of us did.

01:04:23.90
Mike
right rough

01:04:25.89
Bill
Let me read that again. Avoided. Put off.

01:04:29.30
Mike
ah

01:04:29.85
Bill
Scared.

01:04:30.52
Mike
yeah

01:04:31.93
Bill
yeah and you know Oh, here's the other thing that you mentioned you mentioned again, which i i I like repeating this because I think it's it's really important, is that i I missed that day in class where I was supposed to think about all the good things that I did too.

01:04:46.30
Bill
um you know I just was thinking that the four-step was just, here's all the ways I fucked up and this is all the people I fucked with.

01:04:46.39
Mike
Right.

01:04:53.67
Bill
you know i didn't I didn't realize it.

01:04:53.91
Mike
Right.

01:04:55.55
Bill
you know It's the same way I didn't realize when you know I was three and a half or almost four years sober when I when i noticed that step 10 said when we were wrong. you know i'm like I'm like, really?

01:05:03.62
Mike
Right.

01:05:05.54
Bill
Because seriously, I was in Madison, you know so I was at least three and a half, between three and a to four years sober.

01:05:07.63
Mike
ahha right

01:05:11.74
Bill
I said, they're looking at step 10 on the wall going, Are you fought when?

01:05:15.10
Mike
he

01:05:15.19
Bill
Really? When?

01:05:16.98
Mike
When?

01:05:18.10
Bill
Like, God damn it. Because a guy, a guy brought that up.

01:05:21.37
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:22.52
Bill
he He talked about it. He said his sponsor brought that up. And then the steps were literally right behind him on the fucking wall.

01:05:25.81
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:27.68
Bill
and I'm like, im like, Jesus Christ. How did i How?

01:05:30.45
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:05:30.60
Bill
How did I fucking not know that? You never did not see that.

01:05:33.30
Mike
Right. Selective. but Yeah, something or other.

01:05:38.20
Bill
Yeah, I mean, it's it's not that I wasn't doing the 10-step. I just, you know, just I was going to do it one way or the other, but, I mean, I i didn't realize it was a foregone conclusion I was going to be fucking wrong all the time.

01:05:46.24
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.

01:05:49.18
Bill
At least that these guys, you know, however many years prior to that, back in the goddamn 30s, said, by the way, dickhead, you're going be wrong, like, all the fucking time.

01:05:52.79
Mike
Right. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

01:05:57.22
Bill
So so when you are, need to have promptly admitted it.

01:05:59.44
Mike
ahha

01:06:01.02
Bill
Fuck. Yeah. But yeah, so I just, I thought that was interesting and obviously we don't need to go into all the details again about the fourth step, but yeah, everything you said, you're right. I mean, I didn't realize ah how much that actually lined up with everything that I did and, you know, i little everything that you did too.

01:06:15.90
Bill
But, well, again, every, every once in a while, we just, I suppose we got be back in the shit to figure out what's what.

01:06:16.06
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Uh-huh.

01:06:23.10
Mike
We are not special.

01:06:24.20
Bill
Right.

01:06:24.34
Mike
We are not unique. We are not different. We are garden variety drunks.

01:06:28.25
Bill
Right. That we are. That we are. So, um and I've got kind of another question here. This is not really, it just, it happens to be two celebrities, but two, you know, very, very well-known people that went to rehab recently. So I think everyone's probably heard about Tiger Woods and I've heard about Britney Spears. um Nothing to do with them.

01:06:48.82
Bill
It could have been any other, two other celebrities. It didn't have to be them. It just happened to be them at the same time-ish.

01:06:54.46
Mike
All right.

01:06:54.61
Bill
So, you know, Tiger Woods, again, you know, he's on whatever he was on Oxy, I think like that and fucking, you know, rolled his, rolled his car. And then within again, yeah.

01:07:02.46
Mike
Again. Mm-hmm.

01:07:03.94
Bill
With the, again, same, same drugs, same shit found out. I'm almost the same. It wasn't in the same place, but I mean, you know um so that was that.

01:07:07.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:11.12
Bill
And then whatever it was a couple of weeks later, it was like, Oh yeah. He left the country. Went to rehab. Yeah. So then, you know, Britney Spears, who's you know, just this on and off fucking train wreck, you know, gets her DUI.

01:07:15.50
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:21.50
Bill
And then, you know, same deal. couple of days ago there, you know, it was just released or announced or whatever the deal was that now now she's going into rehab. So um it literally it was and it was either if not today, it might have been yesterday or the day before.

01:07:29.00
Mike
Hmm. Hadn't even heard that one

01:07:34.97
Bill
as

01:07:35.38
Mike
Huh.

01:07:35.80
Bill
relatively recent. And I'm sure that, you know, people finally get on like, listen, you need to at least, even if you're not ready or you don't want to, because I, I don't know for a fact, but I'm pretty goddamn sure that when it comes down to these stupid celebrities is that somebody is in their ear going one way or the other, even if you don't think you have a problem, it's, you've got this visual problem right now and you at least got to go to fucking rehab.

01:07:37.14
Mike
Okay.

01:07:53.61
Mike
Right.

01:07:56.32
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:58.14
Bill
You got to do this for a little bit. You got to do this to, to get some sort of your image back or you're fucked, you know?

01:07:59.61
Mike
Right.

01:08:02.41
Mike
Uh-huh. Yeah. Back problems.

01:08:05.24
Bill
Right. So so here's my question from, you know, from all day, everyday people like us. OK, so do you think that celebrities like this, I mean, publicly having issues?

01:08:15.46
Bill
I mean, no one's above it. I mean, we all know that. So um that's that's not the miracle part of it or the the unbelievable part of it.

01:08:18.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:22.42
Bill
But, you know, then kind of along those lines and going to rehab, you know, and do you think this process so they fuck up and this is obviously in everyone's eyes and then they they go to get better, quote unquote.

01:08:33.54
Bill
I think I'll use big old fucking air quotes on that.

01:08:34.09
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:08:36.10
Bill
They go to rehab. Do you think that this helps the sober community, hurts the sober community as any effect? Does it matter at all? What is what is your opinion on that?

01:08:48.15
Mike
Uh, yes. Right. Right.

01:08:51.19
Bill
I, again, how many times have I said this to you that I can't argue with that answer with these, with these, with these blanket answers that are just yes to cover everything, but.

01:08:55.74
Mike
right

01:09:00.34
Mike
Right. um I mean, had you know, clearly um in some quarters it it hurts because, you know, um but it's it does it it doesn't matter if it's celebrity or not, you know, um you know your cousin is fucking causing havoc.

01:09:08.38
Bill
Right.

01:09:16.98
Mike
And and so they get sent to rehab and and, you know, to, again, fix the back problems. And, you know, and they don't do the work and they don't, they're not serious about it.

01:09:27.35
Mike
They're not ready, whatever the case may be. And, um, yeah, you know, people have no idea go Oh, that shit doesn't work. Um, right.

01:09:35.35
Bill
Right, right. Right.

01:09:36.55
Mike
You know, so, I mean, it's just on a bigger scale, but it's the exact same thing as a famous person doing it. Um, You know, ah does it help? um I don't know. Occasionally,

01:09:48.98
Mike
um you know, like the probably the same odds as the rest of us. um It fucking works because they get in there and they go and they pull their head out of their ass and start doing the work. And hey, what do you know? it fucking worked. um So, yeah, I mean, just because it's a bigger bigger bigger scale, more eyeballs on it, whatever, i think it's the exact same thing as, you know, you or I or, you know, Joe down the street or whatever, man.

01:10:17.42
Mike
You know, your cousin who's, you know, whatever, ah had her babies taken away from her.

01:10:19.02
Bill
Right.

01:10:23.32
Mike
um yeah It's all the same. It's all the fucking same. You know, it's its it's all individual. As Bob always says, it's an inside job. um It doesn't matter how many eyeballs are on you while you're fucking doing it. Either you do the work or it doesn't work.

01:10:40.07
Bill
Right.

01:10:40.79
Mike
Yeah.

01:10:41.05
Bill
Yeah. And just to be clear to everyone that just in case you're wondering, neither one of our cousins, we have no cousins that had babies taken away from them. So yet, yeah as far as we know, as far as we know, but no, and you make a good point because here, here's the thing that I, that I thought about the reason I wanted to write it down, because again, it has nothing to do with its, with the fact that, I mean, the, the background of Britney Spears and the background of Tiger Woods, or like you said, again, with him, all these things are, are 100% factual, you know, but, And, you know, it doesn't matter.

01:10:47.70
Mike
Yeah. As far as we know. Yeah.

01:11:04.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:11:09.43
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:11:11.17
Bill
It doesn't have to be them. It could have been any other any other celebrity. It happens all the time. that That fucking knob chick that couldn't sing the ah national anthem, you know, whatever that was a couple years ago.

01:11:15.89
Mike
Right. Right. Uh-huh. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:11:21.97
Bill
And then she's like, I'm really looking forward to rehab.

01:11:22.29
Mike
aha

01:11:25.09
Bill
ah Really?

01:11:25.24
Mike
ah ha

01:11:25.97
Bill
Really? You are really have a great fucking time. Yeah, we saw that.

01:11:30.55
Mike
yeah

01:11:30.60
Bill
We saw where that one was coming.

01:11:31.99
Mike
this is

01:11:32.00
Bill
I'd like to do a follow up on that just to see where where she's at. But um but so, yeah, to your exact point, I know I think and for whatever reason, I think that whether it was some years ago or whatever, there was a there was an argument that was brought up.

01:11:45.94
Bill
I think I don't know if it was before we got sober, if I heard it from somebody or my own. dad talking about whatever the case is that you know sometimes these these celebrities um obviously breaking at that point was considered breaking their and anonymity which we know different now um you know i mean they any one of us or any one of them they can talk about what they do and how they do it it's it's not a problem it shouldn't out somebody else that's anonymity um but

01:11:52.15
Mike
Right.

01:11:58.71
Mike
Right.

01:12:05.11
Mike
m

01:12:08.31
Mike
Right.

01:12:11.00
Bill
Then what if they fall? They're on a larger scale and blah, blah, blah. But to your point, what does it matter? Like you said, whether it's, whether it's, you know, Tiger fucking Woods or it's me or it's you or it's, you know, Britney goddamn Spears, we're still all just fucking human beings.

01:12:21.56
Mike
ye

01:12:26.13
Bill
There's, and that's what was thinking about on the, on the, on the one line is that, you know, so, okay. So it's a, it's a good indication that, you know, nobody's above this thing. You know, my, my sponsor and in, in Mequon used to say this in Wisconsin, which I loved.

01:12:39.63
Bill
The line I still do is the same dog that bit me bit you too, you know, and I love that.

01:12:43.59
Mike
Yep. Yep.

01:12:45.82
Bill
It's so fucking simple, you know, which is what I need, you know?

01:12:47.59
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:50.26
Mike
Right. Right.

01:12:52.14
Bill
So, um so I mean, that's, that's great, but um you know, but yeah, it just, it's, I don't know. was just curiosity wise to think of it if it did hurt, but I mean, to, to your exact point though, They're the same, you know, but on a grander scale, you know, yet, I mean, could it hurt, you know, because it's on such a higher level and some people are going to be like, they have no idea one way or the other.

01:13:10.50
Bill
I think these days it's it's different today than it was certainly 20 years ago, even maybe 10 15 years ago

01:13:10.93
Mike
Of

01:13:15.69
Mike
course.

01:13:17.72
Bill
you know There's a little bit less of the, I do think that you know the the mindset, and the stigma, and I'm not saying it's it's it's not still looked down upon by plenty of people, think it is, but I just think there's, you know to to use the word and the phrase I sometimes hate, but the grace that people give alcoholics and drug addict addicts these days, there's a little bit more grace today than there used to be.

01:13:23.70
Mike
m

01:13:28.22
Mike
course

01:13:39.03
Bill
You know, so maybe I'm not saying that that, you know, Tiger Woods flipping his car, Britney Spears doing what she does.

01:13:39.13
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:13:46.68
Mike
Dancing with knives.

01:13:46.97
Bill
um Yeah. andy I don't think she's she's helping the cause at all.

01:13:51.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:51.38
Bill
But yeah, I don't I agree with you.

01:13:52.25
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:53.66
Bill
I don't I don't i don't necessarily think it's any different.

01:13:54.01
Mike
Right. Yeah, but for every Britney Spears, there's a Danny Trejo, so, you know.

01:13:58.55
Bill
Yeah. Yep.

01:13:59.42
Mike
Yep.

01:14:00.38
Bill
Well, and you know, that's the thing too. And to, to plug our, our friends over there at the sober curator and they do it.

01:14:04.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:14:05.72
Bill
I don't, I, I have, cause I haven't paid attention if it's, I think it's the celebrity, at least of the month, they might do more than that. But there's, if you, if you go on the sober curator, the sober curator.com they have sober celebrities all the time, you know, and they, they showcase them and they talk about them and they write articles about them and, Um, there's, there's a ton of it.

01:14:14.30
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:14:21.11
Mike
Yeah. Right. lose

01:14:27.61
Bill
You know, they talk about, they point out people where every once in a while, I'm just like some of these TV shows or movies or whatever. I'm like, I'm like, fuck that person. I like, God, did I know that that person was sober?

01:14:34.93
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:14:37.18
Bill
You know, i'm like, well that's kind of fucking cool, you know?

01:14:39.19
Mike
Yeah.

01:14:40.12
Bill
But, um, yeah, like you said, the the Danny Drehos and the, uh, you know, all the other people out there that, yeah, he's been, how long has he been sober now?

01:14:44.30
Mike
Craig Ferguson. That shit, probably pushing 30 years.

01:14:47.43
Bill
I mean, for, Anthony Hopkins, 50 some, you know, I get, did I tell you, I downloaded his book.

01:14:51.22
Mike
Right? Yeah.

01:14:54.87
Bill
I didn't, I didn't start listening to it yet.

01:14:55.09
Mike
Hmm.

01:14:57.39
Bill
Cause my, my audible subscription was it was getting to the point where they were going to pop the, pop the price on me. So I was going to cancel it And they're like, you have two credits available.

01:15:06.41
Mike
First one's

01:15:07.91
Bill
You're going lose. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? So I grabbed ah Anthony Hopkins and somebody else.

01:15:10.21
Mike
free. first one's free

01:15:13.88
Bill
Yeah, well, I mean, no, the credits are, I mean, you, you pay like whatever it is when I get these deals or like a dollar, like one 99 a month or you know, 399 and then you get this credit.

01:15:17.33
Mike
Right. Right.

01:15:21.14
Mike
ah

01:15:22.40
Bill
But if you don't, I mean, if I would have just canceled, I would lost the credits, you know?

01:15:26.04
Mike
right

01:15:26.07
Bill
So I've got, literally, I've got two or three books now that are there. So at some point I, I suppose I got to start traveling more, you know? But, um, but now here, so here's the other, um, here's the other thing that I, that I just heard recently.

01:15:38.89
Bill
And I don't know if you heard. So we talked kind of in depth about another celebrity, you know, the the whole Matthew Perry thing. Um, you know, and that's been, is that, it might be, is that it's at least two years, if not three years, did he die?

01:15:45.02
Mike
right

01:15:51.58
Bill
I don't remember when it was now.

01:15:52.22
Mike
yeah Yeah, so bad two sounds about right.

01:15:55.51
Bill
Yeah. So, um, more, uh, recently, and I think it was this week or last week. So the person that was supplying all the ketamine, um, and she was like nicknamed the the ketamine queen.

01:16:06.95
Bill
Do you remember that phrase?

01:16:07.38
Mike
Yeah, I saw something about that. Yep.

01:16:09.66
Bill
Yeah, so she was actually sentenced to 15 years in prison for for her part in that whole thing, saying that you know she she played you know a big part in Well, here's here's my question.

01:16:11.77
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:16:19.32
Mike
Yeah, yeah,

01:16:22.02
Bill
so i doubt

01:16:22.30
Mike
yes yes

01:16:23.42
Bill
Before you, yeah, yeah. Seriously, I want your opinion on this because I don't know that I agree with that, okay?

01:16:34.26
Bill
okay um But I want to get your opinion on that. So whether it's, again, take away Matthew Peary, take him out of the picture, take away the fact that she's got a catchy nickname, you know, the ketamine queen.

01:16:41.15
Mike
right sure

01:16:44.74
Bill
So it's an individual that was supplying ketamine to, you know, somebody and taking advantage of this individual, supposedly.

01:16:52.02
Mike
a

01:16:52.85
Bill
Well, I'm just saying that's what that's how it's written. Supposedly taking advantage as in the doctors and all those people, you know, as the all this shit different shit.

01:16:55.53
Mike
Absolutely not.

01:16:58.93
Mike
ah a

01:17:00.89
Bill
um Do you think that, you know, a person like that should receive 15 years and in prison?

01:17:06.36
Mike
absolutely not

01:17:07.61
Bill
Okay. Right.

01:17:07.83
Mike
Of course not. You know, well that just on so many levels. First of all, nobody was fucking taking advantage of anybody. um You know, nobody ever held a gun to my head, made me go to a drug dealer and buy drugs.

01:17:16.85
Bill
Right.

01:17:22.46
Mike
um I went very willingly. um I stood outside in the rain waiting for drug dealers. um Yeah. ah Yeah.

01:17:32.73
Mike
it's it's It's such bullshit. You know, um ah it it all comes down to legalize everything, man. You know, and then take all that money that we are using to enforce it and blow up boats and blah, blah.

01:17:45.86
Mike
blah yeah And take it and put it towards treatment and education.

01:17:46.14
Bill
ha

01:17:49.22
Mike
and And yes, treating the fucking disease.

01:17:49.99
Bill
Right.

01:17:52.62
Mike
Stop, stop treating the symptoms and treat the fucking disease. um Yeah, you know, no, that it's God. Yeah, it's it's it's a problem with society. And I could sit here for hours going house going on about how stupid it is. um Right.

01:18:09.54
Mike
Nope. Again, nobody forced me to buy drugs. Nobody forced me to take drugs. Nobody forced me to Jesus Christ. No one took advantage of me.

01:18:19.64
Mike
Nobody tricked me into here. Here, kid, try this. It's candy. You know, that never fucking happened.

01:18:25.26
Bill
Right.

01:18:26.36
Mike
I never trick or treated and got drugs in my candy. Nobody's going to give away their fucking drugs to kids. um They're keeping them for themselves.

01:18:32.66
Bill
hey

01:18:35.99
Mike
um Yeah. You know, it's just it's bullshit. You know, that no one. you know, if you kill somebody or whatever, you actually kill somebody, um giving, selling someone drugs and they die is not killing them. You know, that's goddamn capitalism. So there.

01:18:56.23
Mike
Right. Right.

01:18:57.40
Bill
Yeah.

01:18:58.46
Mike
so there

01:18:58.84
Bill
Right. And you know what? I i feel the same way. um And when that's the reason I wrote it down. That's why i said, just give me a minute before you, yeah, yeah, because I wasn't i wasn't going to along the lines of what the media and everyone else is.

01:19:07.80
Mike
right

01:19:11.16
Mike
right

01:19:11.27
Bill
I'm not, because we, you know, when we had talked about that, then I watched the documentary and I was, um I think we, yeah, we I did the ah the Sober Curator episode where talked about Matthew Perry and this stuff. And I said kind of the same thing.

01:19:21.48
Bill
I'm like, i'm like I don't like the the Netflix documentary that they did. It was all about them looking that the entire hour, whatever it was, on this Matthew Perry thing, was them looking for who do we blame and who's who's wrong.

01:19:29.91
Mike
m

01:19:35.16
Mike
Right. is

01:19:36.31
Bill
And I'm like, that's fucked up, you know? So somebody died.

01:19:38.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:19:40.56
Bill
It doesn't... it it You know, i like my I like Matthew Perry. I enjoyed him, you know?

01:19:44.60
Mike
if

01:19:45.16
Bill
But it doesn't fucking...

01:19:45.78
Mike
i'm I'm agnostic on him. I don't really give a shit one way or another.

01:19:49.53
Bill
Right, but the thing of it is, that in what but my point is that it doesn't fucking matter that it was Matthew Perry.

01:19:54.46
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:19:54.79
Bill
It could have been anyone. It could have been anyone with...

01:19:55.86
Mike
It has been.

01:19:57.34
Bill
Exactly. It could have been anyone with a lot of fucking money that... I mean, I know that you know clearly he wasn't the only one that she was dealing with. So...

01:20:04.89
Mike
Right. Well, yeah.

01:20:06.20
Bill
so

01:20:06.60
Mike
Don't make a career off of one person.

01:20:08.09
Bill
Right. And in the same thing now. Now. OK, so ah go back to the doctors a little bit. Yeah. They're you know, they're they're oaths and this and that that breaking bra loot laws and whatever.

01:20:18.04
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:20:18.75
Bill
OK, so again, it all that stuff is what it is. But the everyone was trying to say, well, he died. Matthew Perry died. So these people killed him or these people took advantage of him. And the same thing as that you just said, I just don't agree with it, you know, and and I don't I don't necessarily agree with.

01:20:31.70
Mike
Yeah, course not.

01:20:34.75
Bill
um Again, I don't know. I didn't read the entire article. know everything that she was charged with. But I just think I mean, literally, somebody could walk down the street right now and shoot somebody and get less time than that, you know.

01:20:46.59
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:20:47.13
Bill
And that that's a fucking fact, you know, that's not just saying, you know, I'm not just making the shit up or they may, they may get approached with 15 and they'll do three, you know, because it gets p pleaded down and this and that it's goes from literally some dude walked up and fucking shot somebody that's murder.

01:20:49.23
Mike
Yep.

01:20:53.61
Mike
Right.

01:20:56.85
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:04.06
Bill
And it gets played down to manslaughter or something in blah, blah, whatever.

01:21:04.44
Mike
Yep.

01:21:08.34
Bill
and And that's what it is, you know?

01:21:08.68
Mike
Yep.

01:21:10.93
Bill
So this whole, i mean, that again, whole other topic that we we could talk about, but I was just kind of curious. So, I mean, you and i think are i clearly on the same page with that. It just, I'm like, okay, you know, I don't know. These people were just because it was,

01:21:24.15
Bill
And I think it's sickening just because it was Matthew Perry that that that now all this all these people are up in fucking arms.

01:21:27.11
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:31.26
Bill
There's millions.

01:21:31.29
Mike
Right.

01:21:31.98
Bill
I mean, there's there's the opioid crisis. there all I had no idea. i didn't know about this whole ketamine thing, but um I told you I got my hit of it, you know?

01:21:37.02
Mike
Right.

01:21:39.02
Bill
I got it during my procedure.

01:21:39.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:41.42
Bill
I'm a, I'm a cat.

01:21:41.71
Mike
Right.

01:21:42.22
Bill
I'm a cat vet. I just made that up myself.

01:21:43.57
Mike
All right.

01:21:45.78
Bill
It's again, I'm just kind of proud of the fact, which I should be, but I'm proud of the fact that there there's one drug that I've, that I've again, kind of ah working on an air quotes this time done that you haven't.

01:21:55.99
Mike
m

01:21:57.98
Bill
I'm just kind of proud of that, but all right.

01:21:58.62
Mike
Right. a

01:22:01.56
Bill
So again, we, the ketamine queen, blah, blah, blah. Just, we're on the same page with that.

01:22:04.38
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:05.08
Bill
So, okay.

01:22:05.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:05.60
Bill
Okay. all right so um this one was just kind of i got i got a couple of tidbits you want a couple of tidbits

01:22:11.13
Mike
Sure.

01:22:11.86
Bill
Okay. So the, um I don't even know where this place was. I probably have the article on it, but it's called the sober bar s O B R and then bar. So it's some alcohol free bar.

01:22:21.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:22.24
Bill
Their general manager got a DUI.

01:22:24.76
Mike
Nice.

01:22:25.44
Bill
It's, it's in, I think it's in Ireland or someplace in Europe or the UK or whatever the deal is.

01:22:30.58
Mike
Okay.

01:22:30.88
Bill
But again, tidbit just, it makes me laugh. It's like when, do you remember when the, the head of mothers against drunk drivers got a DUI years ago?

01:22:39.80
Mike
I don't.

01:22:41.08
Bill
Yeah, it was, some God, I should look it up. Was she in, I don't know she was the head of it in the Wisconsin chapter. um

01:22:49.97
Mike
Okay.

01:22:51.06
Bill
I won't even i won't look it up now. and We can look at us one other time. But I just thought, and at the time, this was 30 fucking years ago or something like that.

01:22:58.10
Mike
Okay.

01:22:58.66
Bill
I thought that was funny as fuck because I'm just like, really?

01:23:00.77
Mike
Yeah.

01:23:03.51
Bill
This is what you're supposed to be doing. You're against this, right? Yeah.

01:23:07.45
Mike
All right. Yeah. Exactly. Okay.

01:23:11.00
Bill
But, you know, that goes back to like the Tiger Woods and and the Britney Spears things. The fuck are you guys even doing driving? You guys got enough money. Just fucking fucking pay somebody to drive you, you know?

01:23:17.18
Mike
yeah exactly

01:23:20.31
Bill
Um, oh, I don't know. The other day I was, uh, so I've been listening to, well, you know, I listened Joe Rogan and every once in a while they bring up, uh, um, and I've got some stuff on, i I'll bring that up later. Cause I, I, that'll go into a deeper thing, but, um, they bring up Steve Martin every once in a while.

01:23:34.52
Bill
Cause you know, talking about like, obviously back to his standup and how funny he was and and all sorts of things, which, I mean, you and I are in agreement on that.

01:23:34.81
Mike
go

01:23:41.41
Bill
I know that much. Um, but, um, you know, the fact that, uh, at that time, you know, he's filling up these, these arenas, you know, before anyone did, you know, and just doing his fucking stupid thing and his King Tut song is fucking buddy ears all this stupid shit.

01:23:42.58
Mike
Yep.

01:23:49.69
Mike
Right.

01:23:55.44
Bill
Um, so I'm like, I'm like, I wonder if I can, if I can just grab one of these, you know, his, his album and listen to it. And, uh, I think I could have gotten all of them, but the one I picked was a wildly crazy guy.

01:24:01.97
Mike
h

01:24:06.34
Mike
Yep.

01:24:06.42
Bill
And I listened to that entire album on YouTube. So again, didn't watch it.

01:24:09.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:24:10.88
Bill
It wasn't video. It's just, I listened to it on YouTube and I've got, I've got a side note on that in a second too.

01:24:11.96
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:24:15.88
Bill
But I listened part of it in the car while I was doing my shopping. was at grocery shopping. Like I gotta look for this and I found it. And then just listen to the rest. I was doing some, some shit with the podcast or whatever. And I'm listening to it, laughing my fucking ass off.

01:24:31.06
Bill
It's fucking hilarious. i'm I'm telling you, anyone, if you, especially if you're too young to remember when Steve Martin did stand up, it's fucking funny.

01:24:38.55
Mike
Right.

01:24:40.41
Bill
You know, and I'm easy when talking, he's like, he goes, yeah, he goes, I, he goes, I, he goes, I don't do this and that and do my act for whatever he goes.

01:24:40.86
Mike
Yep.

01:24:46.22
Bill
He goes, I never once a while I do my act for my parents. He goes like, uh, Yeah, but I take the dirty stuff out.

01:24:51.95
Mike
Hmm.

01:24:53.08
Bill
And I mean, that's all he was. He was fucking filthy half the time, you know.

01:24:55.83
Mike
m

01:24:56.70
Bill
But um here's the funny part with that, which I did. I had never heard, but they had brought it up on the podcast with a couple of different people, apparently. And I don't know if this is complete truth or part of the reason why he stopped doing stand up.

01:25:08.71
Bill
But they said that at least one of the reasons or, you know, kind of part of it was that he didn't know anymore when he got on stage if he was really doing something new and funny or whatever, or if he was just, people just liked him for him.

01:25:22.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:24.79
Bill
and he said, he you know, he'd do these shows.

01:25:25.18
Mike
Right.

01:25:26.67
Bill
yeah i guess he talked about in interviews. He said, it didn't matter what I say. People were people were laughing. They were screaming. They were howling. because like He goes, I got to a point where because I didn't know what i if what I was doing was even even funny anymore.

01:25:33.60
Mike
Right.

01:25:39.54
Mike
Right.

01:25:39.64
Bill
You know, he had that, he had that level of fame, you know, where it just didn't matter what he could have stood up there and read the goddamn encyclopedia.

01:25:42.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:46.00
Bill
I'm sure. And people would have thought it was fucking hilarious.

01:25:46.46
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:25:49.85
Bill
But last thing on, on him, he said, he was talking about ah philosophy and this and that. And he says, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then he said, he said, so crates.

01:25:59.07
Mike
70...

01:25:59.48
Bill
And I'm like, really?

01:26:00.43
Mike
8, I believe. Right.

01:26:02.52
Bill
Because wildly crazy guy, what year ish was that late?

01:26:02.77
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:26:05.85
Mike
um seventy but but but but but but eight i believe

01:26:09.37
Bill
Yeah. And I didn't even look it up, you know, when I, when I was, when I was doing it, but I'm like, you know, I mean, I know it from obviously Bill and Ted, you know, but I'm like, fuck man, Steve Martin is the first one.

01:26:17.69
Mike
right

01:26:21.46
Bill
He said, it brought it up. That's so great thing. I'm like, that's fucking hilarious. I thought, I thought you might appreciate that if nothing else, but that's maybe that's what he was talking about.

01:26:25.53
Mike
yeah Well, he was a philosophy major in college. Yeah.

01:26:31.76
Bill
Something. he if he was talking about that, he studied that or whatever the case was.

01:26:34.23
Mike
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:26:34.92
Bill
And and I didn't know that I had,

01:26:35.92
Mike
He majored in philosophy in college, yeah.

01:26:38.62
Bill
yeah That had to have been what he was talking about then. And then said, yeah, this and that, blah, blah, blah. And it's so great. So i'm like I'm like, I got to write that fucking thing down.

01:26:45.56
Mike
Yeah.

01:26:47.49
Bill
But yeah, it was just it was great. I mean, I really, really enjoyed it. But last thing on the YouTube thing, I came across, because I get fed these articles, podcast shit, not just hiking shit all the time, but podcast shit, cause i you know obviously because of all the shit we're doing.

01:27:00.06
Mike
You're a podcaster?

01:27:00.88
Bill
Yeah, I'm a but podcast and I hike, you know, so imagine that Google feeds me all this fucking garbage.

01:27:00.94
Mike
Do you hike? Uh-huh.

01:27:06.56
Bill
But they said that a lot of times one of the reasons that YouTube is so popular is not necessarily for the for the videos. Yes, people watch videos and video podcasting and all sorts of things.

01:27:18.47
Bill
But they said sometimes when somebody can't have their phone out, you know, or they don't have a cellular connection or or a clear connection, he said they can listen to, they'll go to YouTube to listen to their podcasts, you know, or something like that while they're working or whatever, because it's it's on their computer and obviously through the Wi-Fi or blah, blah, blah, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me because maybe they're at a place where they can't have their phone out at work or whatever.

01:27:18.62
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:27:37.44
Mike
Right.

01:27:42.80
Bill
But the that that's one of the ideas of YouTube. Now, We do have a YouTube channel and all of our episodes, because i was curious after that, it was it appears that somehow, someway, don't know if it's doing it in blocks or if just as of a handful of episodes, something happened and they're not being pulled up anymore.

01:27:49.21
Mike
Right.

01:28:01.62
Bill
But I think the it's been a handful of episodes, maybe three episodes weren't up on YouTube, but a lot of them are. I didn't go through and look individually. But I mean, again, there's no video.

01:28:13.02
Bill
It's just you could listen to the audio of our podcast on YouTube.

01:28:14.13
Mike
Yeah. Right?

01:28:16.14
Bill
You know, so I'm like, I'm like, okay, well, that, that makes a little bit more sense, you know, but, um, I mean, we don't get anything from YouTube.

01:28:16.65
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:22.81
Bill
We don't have enough listeners, followers. I think we have 30 people that follow us on that channel.

01:28:27.96
Mike
Hmm.

01:28:28.05
Bill
Um, but I mean, when people, people are making their millions on there, it's when, you know, obviously they've got all this different content and they're getting all this different stuff and then they get the advertisers and, you know, the typical stuff, the blah, blah, blah.

01:28:34.60
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:39.02
Bill
So. But anyhow, so that was that was the that was it on on YouTube, and that was it on on Steve Martin.

01:28:40.60
Mike
All right.

01:28:45.42
Bill
But I'm going to listen to Let's Get Small, and then what was the comedy isn't pretty is the other one.

01:28:49.46
Mike
Right. Yep.

01:28:50.20
Bill
going have to look those up. But I'll tell you, I swear to God, anyone who has never listened to Steve Martin, I'm not saying you have to, but yeah you'll fucking laugh. You will fucking laugh and unless you don't have a sense of humor.

01:29:00.70
Mike
You will.

01:29:02.69
Bill
So.

01:29:03.13
Mike
Right. Right.

01:29:04.64
Bill
All right, so it looks like we are right on the dot here.

01:29:08.25
Mike
no

01:29:08.64
Bill
I don't know. I mean, I got more shit unless you want to keep talking or no?

01:29:12.57
Mike
ah No.

01:29:13.46
Bill
hey I know.

01:29:15.45
Mike
Some of us have to get up and go to work tomorrow.

01:29:17.85
Bill
I don't, and that's the other thing I'm thinking about.

01:29:19.13
Mike
i know.

01:29:19.89
Bill
I'm like, I just i you know i got this just got drive to drive out to Cleveland tomorrow. So so anyhow, um I think we're good. So yeah, your turn, my friend.

01:29:28.84
Mike
All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. So always be kind to each other, be good to each other, go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it.

01:29:43.22
Mike
Now from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally, fuck you.

01:29:55.77
Mike
Now it's time, kids. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:30:07.35
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever. Sure.

01:30:14.62
Bill
Yes. Oh, you know what? My, my scroll moment. Can I tell you about this real quick? My doctor's appointment.

01:30:19.90
Mike
Sure.

01:30:20.31
Bill
I just, I saw my, I just saw my, letter though okay. So real quick, I was, um, I've got to go in for a follow-up for my cardiology appointment. No big deal. But the doctor said before you come in like a week prior, he goes, go in and get an echocardiogram.

01:30:27.48
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:32.22
Bill
They want to see the, um, the, uh, output of my heart. You know, was just a little bit down from what normal is, but not bad. But he goes, I just want to check it, you know, three months out from what it was. So I scheduled it, blah, blah, blah.

01:30:42.34
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:43.46
Bill
And I was supposed to be the, or set up with the 28th and in my cardiology follow-up on the fourth. So the other day I get a phone call and I'm working and I see it's from, you know, this hospital.

01:30:53.74
Bill
So I call him like, oh, you know, we're doing a pre-register thing, blah, blah, blah.

01:30:54.14
Mike
Yeah.

01:30:57.82
Bill
And it's not a big deal. It's an ultrasound. It's not ah really a procedure. I'm like, you realize i'm just getting I'm just getting the echo, right? And she's like, yeah, but we got to do this anyhow to verify the information. It'll take five minutes. Fine. So i'm I'm working and not really paying attention to this whole thing. She's going through the insurance and this and that. We verified the insurance and this is blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, said and how would you like to pay for that? i'm like, wait a second, pay for what?

01:31:20.57
Bill
And she's like, the $2,300. like, to what what what is that for

01:31:26.65
Mike
yeah

01:31:27.50
Bill
She's like, well, that's your portion. I'm like, how can that be my fucking portion? do you know

01:31:31.67
Mike
yeah

01:31:31.86
Bill
and she's like she's like, well, this is what this is what you have to pay. And i'm just she's giving me nothing, right? And I'm like like, I don't just have an extra fucking $2,300. And I'm like, i'm like what she's like, well, I can give you, you could you're eligible for a discount for you know whatever.

01:31:41.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:47.02
Bill
And she doesn't explain what the discount is, but she's like, it could be $1,850. I'm like I have fucking I didn't say fuck I mean, $1,800 either. I'm like, I mean, if it's this, I'm like, I'll just have to cancel out the telecardiologist.

01:31:59.35
Bill
I'm like, I can't afford, you know, throw this out there.

01:32:01.69
Mike
right.

01:32:02.30
Bill
And that was it. She's like, well, like I'll, you'll have to talk to whatever and I'll transfer you down. i'm like, I don't have time for this right now. And I hung up. So the next day I get a phone call and again from the hospital. So get a message, you know, blah, blah, blah from here. Call me back. And i'm like, Jesus Christ, not the same lady, but I call back and she's like, I just wanted to get on a follow up and see if anyone got in touch with you. This came across my desk. Has anyone contacted you about this? And I said, yeah, I'm like, I have to, I'm going to have cancel it because I can't, I can't afford that. You know?

01:32:29.70
Mike
Right.

01:32:29.72
Bill
And she's like, did she, did she give you any other options? I'm like, no. Tell her exactly how the phone call went. She's like, well, here's what we can do. And it's when it was one of the financial counselors who was calling me from the hospital.

01:32:39.21
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:40.06
Bill
So she's like, um you know, you can do this and that and blah, blah, blah. And we can spread it out over this certain amount of time. and It's just X number of dollars a month. And all you got do is bring your the first payment, which is like $65 to the appointment.

01:32:50.45
Mike
Yeah.

01:32:51.50
Bill
And then you're fine. I'm like, really? And she's like, yes. I'm like, sign me up for that. Okay.

01:33:00.25
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:00.54
Bill
But then she explains to me, cause wasn't thinking about it. She's like, well, here's what your insurance is.

01:33:03.58
Mike
m well

01:33:05.42
Bill
Here's what they're saying. It's good. It could be, it could be that amount, blah, blah, blah. But, um, you know, you, you have, we, we know what you're deductible about. I'm like, oh fuck. I haven't used, I mean, I never use my deductible unless I have a heart attack, you know, cause then I, then I burn it up in like 30 days, but, um, I haven't, I barely used any of my deductible, no out of pocket.

01:33:16.92
Mike
Right.

01:33:23.28
Bill
So that's why it's that dollar amount. Um, you know, but my, but she's like, it could be less and we could refigure whatever she said, you just need to, we just need to get something in place to make sure that we've talked to you.

01:33:33.33
Bill
You got, you got a plan on how to take care of this and then we'll figure it out and ease everything out. And I said, I said, here's a deal. I said, I don't want, I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble. Um, you know, I said, just if somebody could make a suggestion to this individual that, you know, maybe that she give the whole, you know, like the whole picture.

01:33:51.16
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:51.22
Bill
because So I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm like, I'm fine. I feel fine. But I'm like, you know, I I'm like, now I can't get my heart checked because I can't, I'm like, I, she's like, that's okay.

01:33:54.84
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:33:57.72
Mike
Right.

01:33:59.54
Bill
She's like that. She's like, most of us don't have, you know, $2,300 just laying around waiting to, waiting to pay for a, you know, a procedure.

01:34:02.55
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:34:05.74
Bill
I'm like, so she was so nice. But I thought about that before we were talking because so you got somebody who's, you know, again, how do we act now versus how we used to act act? You know, and it made me think of the person that I talked to the first time was how we used to act.

01:34:19.26
Bill
The way we act now is the second person because all this, this person never told me anything.

01:34:19.35
Mike
Right.

01:34:23.66
Bill
She was just like in, Oh, the, the, uh, 20% discount if you pay in full.

01:34:29.02
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:34:29.98
Bill
So they give you a cash discount, but I'm like, I'm like, you know, all this, this is, I'm like, this is my health. I'm like, I'm freaking out.

01:34:36.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:36.58
Bill
Cause now I can't, cause I can't, I can't do this. I'm like, how do people do this? You know?

01:34:41.11
Mike
Right.

01:34:42.59
Bill
So just, just back to the point of, uh, it just, said it made me feel good. And I thanked the lady and I felt so much better because somebody treated me, um, with a little bit of dignity and a little bit of respect.

01:34:52.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:34:52.96
Bill
It didn't just say, you know, fuck you, pay me.

01:34:53.30
Mike
Right.

01:34:55.33
Bill
And it gave me, cause obviously all this ah per first person would have done is said, here's what I can do.

01:34:55.51
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:01.14
Bill
I'm going to send this down with a note down to fight to a financial counselor. They will contact you.

01:35:04.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:05.41
Bill
And there are, there could be, that's always she would e'd say there could be other options.

01:35:08.12
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:35:09.62
Bill
And then that's what would happen.

01:35:11.29
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:12.28
Bill
So anyhow, I was just, I was kind of fucking beside myself, but anyhow, all's well that ends.

01:35:12.28
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:35:17.35
Bill
Well, I'm going to get my heart checked. I'm all good. And so that I, I have a heart still.

01:35:19.29
Mike
Well, good.

01:35:22.56
Bill
Yes. I, there was one in there and it attacked me a while ago and I don't want it to do that again.

01:35:23.16
Mike
Yeah. m

01:35:26.81
Mike
Right.

01:35:27.29
Bill
All right.

01:35:28.28
Mike
Hey, I've got one of those too. It's really small and black.

01:35:31.58
Bill
Yeah, you know, I don't know what color mine is, but did the little fucker attacked me, I'll tell you that much. And it's no fun. No, no fun. All right, brother. Well, you know what? I'm going to see you tomorrow, actually.

01:35:41.88
Mike
Yes, you are.

01:35:41.95
Bill
But for now, I love you, brother.

01:35:43.67
Mike
Yes. I love you too. Bye.

01:35:45.50
Bill
And we will talk and I will see you soon.

01:35:49.30
Mike
hey

01:35:49.83
Bill
Bye.

01:35:50.74
Mike
buy