SoberNotMature - Episode 200 (Jeremy Pierson - We're His Ellen)

00:00:01.75
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And Jeremy, first of all, I think both Mike and I are going to say a quick thank you because this is episode 200 and you're saving us from trying to figure out some stupid fucking shit to do, you know, to celebrate some milestone that we don't care about, you know, so...

00:00:08.57
Jeremy L Pierson
and jerey first of all i think both mike and i are going to say it folks thank you because this is episode two hundred

00:00:14.80
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:14.97
Jeremy L Pierson
because we're trying to figure out some

00:00:18.05
Mike
Right.

00:00:21.14
Mike
right

00:00:22.10
Bill
Episode 200 is no different for us than that episode 76 or whatever it is. So thank you for, for yeah as things fell into line here for being on for episode 200. That doesn't mean a goddamn thing except for we don't have to do any extra work.

00:00:35.46
Bill
So actually less work.

00:00:36.22
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

00:00:37.02
Bill
All right, Mike.

00:00:38.18
Jeremy L Pierson
It's an honor. It's an honor.

00:00:40.28
Bill
But yeah, so everyone, obviously we have a guest. We haven't had one in a couple of weeks and we were joking last week that we're running out of things to talk about. So it's good we have a guest this week.

00:00:46.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:48.06
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

00:00:48.40
Bill
But yeah, it's just, it it kind it kind of is what it is. But um first of all, it is your, as you just said, maiden voyage. I was going to say that you're you're popping your cherry on your podcasting.

00:00:58.10
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm popping my chair. Yeah, yeah.

00:00:59.78
Bill
Because, yeah, you you told me that in email and I figured we'd bring it up one way or the other. But, um yeah, Jeremy's never been on a podcast before, so it's kind of cool. And we told him that we'd, well, we'd try to treat him right.

00:01:10.54
Bill
So we're just going to be us and whatever whatever it is. If you if you felt treated right then or feel treated right, that's on you. If you don't, that's also on you. okay

00:01:19.83
Jeremy L Pierson
Hey, listen, whatever happens, I'm sure I've been through worse. so

00:01:22.26
Bill
Yeah, exactly. And that's the, yeah, we were talking about that too. I'm sure we'll talk about it. So do this very quickly. Just do a quick introduction, just ah just a couple of minutes, some who you are, where you're from, ah just a little bit about your background. We'll get into your full story here in a minute, but just introduce yourself, tell everyone who you are and where you're from.

00:01:40.29
Jeremy L Pierson
Great. Okay. Yeah. So my name is Jeremy Pearson and I live in Long Beach, California. um And I am... Well, I'll tell you my little quick thing that I like to say.

00:01:51.29
Jeremy L Pierson
to say i'm ah I'm a transformation experiencer. I've had to come out of the closet about multiple areas of my life, from my sexuality to my addictions with meth, alcohol, sex, porn.

00:01:57.79
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:01:58.04
Bill
ah

00:02:04.33
Jeremy L Pierson
I've been everything from a ballroom dancer to a drug dealer, from a skeptic to a psychic. So I've transformed from a dope dealer to a hope dealer. And as a contemporary mystic and a spiritual coach, I'm here to help others discover the truth of who and what they really are.

00:02:18.47
Jeremy L Pierson
So I i work in, that's my little elevator pitch.

00:02:19.00
Bill
yeah

00:02:22.32
Jeremy L Pierson
And i work I work with people in substance abuse treatment.

00:02:23.13
Mike
a

00:02:27.64
Jeremy L Pierson
And um I also work with, I support facilitators. and And I also am a spiritual coach and an empowerment coach. And I was a ballroom dancer for almost three decades as a profession.

00:02:43.41
Jeremy L Pierson
So I've traveled the world as a ballroom dancer and learned a lot about life and how things work from that.

00:02:43.62
Bill
Really?

00:02:48.68
Jeremy L Pierson
And and I've struggled with addiction for for that entire time. So pretty much the whole time that I was out there as a ballroom dancer, I was also out there as a as a dope addict, right?

00:02:59.02
Jeremy L Pierson
So crystal meth, alcohol, sex, porn, like I said. um i was and then like you said we're going to get into my story a little bit later but that's kind of uh that's who i am and i'm now i'm starting to really um come out as as a spiritual coach to try to get myself out there. I've been working as a spiritual coach now for five years, just word of mouth. And so now I've got my mentor who was betty she ah Buddha Betty. She was on your podcast, right? And so she's my she's my mentor. And so she kind of hooked me up with you guys and said, okay, go pop your cherry, buddy.

00:03:36.41
Mike
a

00:03:36.86
Jeremy L Pierson
so So here I am. Yeah.

00:03:39.93
Mike
Nice. Well, welcome.

00:03:40.31
Bill
yeah yeah do Yeah, exactly. And yeah, we had Betty on and I had to look back. It was episode, if anyone's interested, which we had a good time with her. And she was one. She was with us for the first hour. So we did not have her for the entire time, but had a great conversation you know with her.

00:03:54.56
Bill
And I forget even how we ran across her.

00:03:56.19
Jeremy L Pierson
So you're going to spend more time with with me than you did with her? I love that.

00:03:58.74
Bill
hey Yeah, absolutely.

00:03:58.94
Mike
Yes. a

00:03:59.77
Jeremy L Pierson
he

00:04:00.18
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can tell her that, the yeah, yeah. Apparently she had more important things to do, but yeah.

00:04:04.50
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, yeah. yeah

00:04:05.54
Bill
Speaking of that, I, I just saw, and I just saw on social media, I think she just got married.

00:04:06.60
Mike
Cool. Muscle tough.

00:04:09.58
Bill
Didn't she? Did you see that?

00:04:10.21
Jeremy L Pierson
She did. Yes.

00:04:10.97
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:11.23
Jeremy L Pierson
Yes.

00:04:12.31
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:12.38
Jeremy L Pierson
Yes.

00:04:12.47
Bill
The dude that the dude that was yelling in the background that he had headphones when we were, when we were, when we did the episode.

00:04:14.89
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah. yeah

00:04:18.71
Bill
Yeah. I apparently they got married. So congratulations to her.

00:04:21.11
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:04:21.59
Bill
I hadn't had chance to reach out to her.

00:04:21.62
Mike
and mael toff

00:04:22.33
Jeremy L Pierson
Absolutely.

00:04:23.31
Bill
But um yeah, I mean, one way or the other, absolutely, we're going to get into your entire story.

00:04:23.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:04:27.11
Bill
Just so you know, the the biggest thing here is, you know, and I know that you had your elevator pitch and that's cool. um You could just, we you've listened to us. We have a conversation.

00:04:35.84
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:04:36.00
Bill
We just talked through this entire thing.

00:04:36.59
Mike
Yeah.

00:04:37.36
Bill
And I mean, quite honestly, we Mike and I talked about it recently over the last handful of episodes. It's one of the things we' we're kind of proud about. We end up getting different conversations with people. because a lot of people make the rounds in these podcasts, even though you've only done one, this might, you might think this is really great.

00:04:53.12
Bill
Or you might think I never want to do this again, but it could go either way, you know, and and I apologize or, or either you're welcome or or, you know, sorry, you know, for, from us, but, but um one, one.

00:04:55.19
Mike
c

00:05:03.26
Jeremy L Pierson
And again, that's that that was my sex life also.

00:05:03.69
Bill
Yeah.

00:05:05.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:05:05.75
Bill
Yeah.

00:05:06.36
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:05:06.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:07.02
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:05:07.07
Bill
Yeah, you know what I had a little bit of that myself.

00:05:07.40
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. yeah ah

00:05:10.95
Bill
But um yeah, so we want we want to hear your story. And mike Mike's got a ah really, really nice way about explaining it. he probably You probably heard this before, but Mike, tell them what we do and how we like to talk about things.

00:05:21.79
Mike
Well, we definitely know how to get fucked up. We know how to fuck up our lives. We know how to fuck up the lives of everyone around us. What we're interested in is the solution, how you stop doing that.

00:05:34.91
Mike
um Clearly, we want a little qualifying. We want to know that you know what the fuck you're talking about, but we hate drunkologs.

00:05:39.65
Jeremy L Pierson
talking about but we hate drunk a lot so keep that in mind

00:05:42.55
Mike
So keep that in mind, but tell us what happened.

00:05:47.50
Jeremy L Pierson
All right. Okay.

00:05:48.25
Bill
yeah

00:05:48.29
Jeremy L Pierson
So, yeah. So that's, you know, I'm really excited to be on this, this particular podcast as my, you know, as you said to pop my cherry, because I love listening to you guys.

00:05:49.69
Mike
Yeah.

00:05:58.50
Jeremy L Pierson
When I started, you know, when she told me about you guys and I checked it out, I thought this is exactly the purpose, place perfect place for me to start because this casual conversation, I just feel like we're just chilling out on the porch talking about shit, you know, and that, that to me is really exciting to me.

00:06:11.06
Bill
Right.

00:06:13.73
Jeremy L Pierson
And Also, especially, I'm so passionate about recovery. I am not passionate about the problem, though, because the we all, like you said, we all know the problem.

00:06:23.29
Mike
Yeah, we all have it.

00:06:23.49
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I'm super excited to, yeah, yeah, we know how to do that.

00:06:25.21
Mike
Right.

00:06:25.97
Bill
Right.

00:06:27.36
Jeremy L Pierson
I know i know how to do all that shit, but but a lot of us have no clue how to get sober or stay sober.

00:06:31.96
Mike
Right.

00:06:32.32
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I'm super excited to share about that. um So I'll do a little bit of qualifying.

00:06:36.38
Mike
Cool.

00:06:37.96
Jeremy L Pierson
So um I was born in Eugene, Oregon in 1974. We lived in a single wide trailer. So that meant there was a you know lot of marijuana, right? Because it was in the 70s.

00:06:47.34
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:06:48.61
Jeremy L Pierson
My parents were hippies, right?

00:06:50.17
Bill
ha

00:06:50.65
Jeremy L Pierson
So um my earliest memories of my childhood are are beautiful. i had ah I had a great childhood as far as I can remember, except for just a few things that were stressful and And there was some some arguing and fighting that was going on.

00:07:04.37
Jeremy L Pierson
And when I was four, my parents divorced. And um I like to say I was in the closet from the beginning because when my parents would fight, I would hide in my closet. And I didn't realize that that was going to be the foundation for the rest of my life, right?

00:07:14.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:16.83
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:07:18.12
Jeremy L Pierson
So... um You know, I would hide in the closet and um I'm just going as I do my share, i mean, there's, i've I've had to learn that I have to share my story the way that it actually happened.

00:07:29.27
Jeremy L Pierson
And I, you know, and I cannot, I cannot try to sugarcoat it or make it acceptable to anybody.

00:07:29.46
Mike
is it

00:07:30.01
Bill
Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:34.43
Jeremy L Pierson
So my story has a lot of lot of spiritual stuff in it because that's just what it was like to be me.

00:07:35.38
Mike
instance instance

00:07:40.70
Jeremy L Pierson
So when I'm hiding in my closet, I have this sense of safety and security because I have a friend in my closet that I can't see, but I can feel and made me never feel alone.

00:07:52.34
Jeremy L Pierson
And that would later become what I would call my higher power.

00:07:55.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:55.93
Jeremy L Pierson
But I remember that I would go and hide in the closet and it just felt right. And I would be in there playing with my light bright and my view master. And we just had a great time. So I had this right from the beginning.

00:08:06.37
Jeremy L Pierson
And this is at the age of four that my parents split up. So in the beginning, I just was already connected. And I feel like that really touches to me on you know the step two thing about it's being restored to sanity.

00:08:19.33
Jeremy L Pierson
Meaning to me that there was a time in my life where I was fully connected and didn't feel like there was something wrong with me.

00:08:19.50
Bill
Right.

00:08:25.69
Jeremy L Pierson
And that's what, you know, later when I share about, you know, my journey with the steps is that it did take me back to that. But so early on, I loved, I just loved my life. And um when my parents split up, things got very confusing to me because I remember that I was in the bathtub when my mom left.

00:08:42.98
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I thought she left because I was in the bathtub for too long because, well, I mean, As an alcoholic and an addict, I'm very self-centered, but also as a four-year-old, I'm very self-centered, right?

00:08:46.45
Mike
Hmm.

00:08:53.46
Jeremy L Pierson
So everything that happens is obviously my fault.

00:08:53.53
Mike
Right.

00:08:56.30
Jeremy L Pierson
And then and then my dad left and took me to my grandmother's, I thought, because he didn't want me with him because I had made my mom leave. and so And I didn't want to tell anybody any this is going on because if I told you that I ruined the family, then you'd leave me too, right?

00:09:06.13
Mike
Hmm.

00:09:11.38
Mike
Sure.

00:09:12.05
Jeremy L Pierson
So that that's how that went down. And so my grandmother um took care of me and became my rock. And um I really just remember being a happy child until I went to school.

00:09:27.12
Jeremy L Pierson
And school for me was a place that just didn't make much sense to me because there were no other kids around in my childhood except in school.

00:09:28.21
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:09:34.00
Jeremy L Pierson
So at home, I was the center of the tension, right? So I had all the adults' attention and and all the focus was on me and everything. It was wonderful. And then I went to school and it was like, who are these other little beasts?

00:09:46.08
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't understand what's going on.

00:09:46.58
Mike
and see

00:09:47.84
Jeremy L Pierson
And so immediately I'm on the outside looking in. That's that's how it feels to be me when I'm around peers. Right? So... um And my grandparents lived in a retirement community.

00:10:00.19
Jeremy L Pierson
So, so I spent a lot of time around elderly people and they were my friends. They were my buddies.

00:10:05.75
Mike
Mm

00:10:06.17
Jeremy L Pierson
I was super comfortable around people that are older, but I just don't know how to relate to my peers at all. And then this would just continue to get worse and worse over the years. And, um,

00:10:17.94
Jeremy L Pierson
I remember being in school with the D.A.R.E. program and you know they told us, you know just say no to drugs.

00:10:21.38
Bill
Sure.

00:10:21.63
Mike
hmm.

00:10:24.33
Jeremy L Pierson
And they also told us that drug addicts are are are you know the monsters of society and all these things.

00:10:29.05
Mike
Sure.

00:10:29.13
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm like, hey, hey that's my dad you're talking about.

00:10:31.74
Mike
Right.

00:10:32.13
Jeremy L Pierson
you know's And that didn't make any sense to me. and And so that was a very confusing thing for me. But what I ended up doing is I ended up deciding I'm gonna i'm going to be you know the the good kid. i love being a good kid. um and until later in my story who where I love being a bad kid. but But I love being a good kid.

00:10:52.10
Jeremy L Pierson
I want to do the right thing. I want to get good grades and I want validation from everybody. And so I i remember I had posters in my room from the D.A.R.E. program, these posters of like this drug dealer that when he opens his jacket, it's got syringes and all kinds of stuff.

00:11:07.19
Bill
hey

00:11:07.73
Jeremy L Pierson
And he's got like green teeth and he's a monster.

00:11:08.41
Bill
if Bye.

00:11:10.01
Jeremy L Pierson
And I didn't know that those posters on my wall were actually my vision board for my future.

00:11:14.90
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:11:15.93
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. So, um, so I was very much, very much against anything drug related or anything like that until i experienced it.

00:11:26.52
Mike
Right.

00:11:26.65
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And um it started with alcohol and it was just the thing where it was like, so when some kids would come over, and my parents were, um you know, not around and we'd get into my parents' alcohol and my parents weren't heavy drinkers or anything.

00:11:40.32
Jeremy L Pierson
So they wouldn't notice. Right. And so we'd do that thing where we'd mix the drinks, you know, pour all the little bit out of each bottle and make these like horrible concoctions.

00:11:42.12
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:11:47.84
Jeremy L Pierson
And, And we just get fucked up. Right. And it was the best thing ever for me because I no longer cared whether you liked me or not. I didn't care if I was funny or not.

00:11:57.46
Mike
a

00:11:58.50
Jeremy L Pierson
I was funny. And it was, it wasn't like alcohol allowed me to be myself.

00:12:04.52
Bill
Right.

00:12:04.54
Mike
Right.

00:12:05.14
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. It allowed me to be myself. So, and I think that that's one of the key differences for me is that, you know, other people, when they drink, it changes their personality. When I drink, it allows my personality.

00:12:16.41
Mike
Right.

00:12:17.24
Jeremy L Pierson
And that's what was so different for me.

00:12:17.27
Bill
Sure.

00:12:19.24
Jeremy L Pierson
And it was like, okay, this is something I need to do. And very quickly, I started to get very – I do weird stuff. So remember – so i remember that I would steal cigarettes out of my mom's purse.

00:12:34.36
Jeremy L Pierson
And then i would so i would put them in a Ziploc baggie and I buried them in the backyard. And I did that because if I hid them in my room, my parents would find them. And so I buried them in the backyard. And that way I can sneak out at night and I can smoke them by myself in the backyard.

00:12:51.10
Jeremy L Pierson
That's not a normal reaction to nicotine.

00:12:53.21
Mike
No.

00:12:54.01
Jeremy L Pierson
No, that's that's weird, right? um So I just...

00:12:55.80
Mike
Right.

00:12:57.09
Jeremy L Pierson
i i

00:12:57.08
Mike
But completely understandable.

00:12:59.00
Bill
Right, yeah.

00:12:59.06
Jeremy L Pierson
But right to an alcoholic, that that totally makes sense, right?

00:12:59.80
Bill
yeah

00:13:01.21
Mike
Yeah, Right.

00:13:03.67
Jeremy L Pierson
But i I hide things and I feel weird about stuff and I do secret things. And i i you know i I put on my mom's clothes when she's at work and I i stay home sick so that I can do it.

00:13:15.07
Jeremy L Pierson
I pretend to be sick so I can stay home and put on her clothes and smoke her cigarettes and do these things. And it's like, it's like i it's just all the secrets. And i remember I remember praying that God would, oh boy, I'm just going to let you guys, I'm telling the truth.

00:13:30.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Fuck.

00:13:30.49
Mike
Yeah.

00:13:30.82
Jeremy L Pierson
Okay. Okay.

00:13:31.32
Bill
but

00:13:31.50
Jeremy L Pierson
I wasn't expecting any of this stuff to come up, but here, you know, I just, I don't, I'm not going to, I don't control my share because it's not my business to do that.

00:13:31.90
Mike
Yep. Right.

00:13:39.11
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

00:13:39.42
Mike
right

00:13:39.55
Jeremy L Pierson
I believe that it's my higher powers job to let the words that need to be said, be said in the words that need to be heard, be heard.

00:13:39.80
Bill
right yeah

00:13:44.96
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:13:46.19
Jeremy L Pierson
And, and that's, I don't know who's going to hear this and it's for them. So, so whoever's hearing this, if this is meaning something to you, I love you.

00:13:49.96
Bill
right

00:13:50.49
Mike
Right.

00:13:53.51
Jeremy L Pierson
But um so I would pray every night that God would, turned me into a girl and, and that when I would wake up, my name would be Jenny and, and everybody would understand.

00:14:05.58
Jeremy L Pierson
And, uh, I didn't want to have to change my initials. So that's why I chose Jenny and, and the

00:14:09.58
Mike
Sure.

00:14:10.04
Bill
yeah that's that makes That makes no sense, but perfect sense. It's awesome.

00:14:14.71
Jeremy L Pierson
right. Cause that's a lot of work, you know, I was like, this is like between the ages of, I'm saying like six to 11, like in that range, you know,

00:14:16.18
Bill
Well, yeah, because what you think about it is, that ah you how old were you at this time?

00:14:24.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:14:25.21
Bill
yeah but I mean, that's the thing.

00:14:25.36
Mike
Right.

00:14:26.69
Bill
you know i would The reason I said makes no sense is because you wouldn't think ah a six-year-old would care, but it makes perfect sense. You're like, yeah I want to change my life, but I don't want to go through, don't want to change my initials. that's I just think that's that's perfect.

00:14:37.14
Jeremy L Pierson
No, because then I have to learn my new initials.

00:14:38.49
Bill
That's awesome.

00:14:39.30
Jeremy L Pierson
i already know who I am.

00:14:40.73
Mike
Right.

00:14:40.86
Jeremy L Pierson
but you know And Jenny is who I am.

00:14:41.75
Bill
Right.

00:14:43.53
Jeremy L Pierson
So so so i want I pray for that. And this is the thing. is i wasn't the The miracle to me wouldn't be that I would become a girl. The miracle would be that everyone would understand.

00:14:56.39
Mike
Yep.

00:14:56.58
Bill
Right.

00:14:57.30
Jeremy L Pierson
That is all I wanted.

00:14:57.40
Bill
Sure.

00:14:58.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I really didn't want to be a girl. And I know now that I'm so grateful that that prayer wasn't answered because like the Garth Brooks song, thank God for unanswered prayers. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a male by heart and and in every way.

00:15:11.96
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm so grateful that that didn't happen. But what I wanted was to be accepted. I wanted, i wanted to be able to play the way I wanted to play. I wanted to be able to be effeminate. I wanted to be able to play with Barbies.

00:15:22.43
Jeremy L Pierson
I wanted to be able to, I loved Wonder Woman and I wanted a Wonder Woman lunchbox, but I, you know, And it's not that my parents wouldn't let me have them.

00:15:24.31
Bill
Right.

00:15:26.30
Mike
Mm-hmm. Sure. Right. Mm-hmm.

00:15:30.35
Jeremy L Pierson
It's that the kids at school wouldn't let me.

00:15:30.50
Mike
Mm-hmm. sure right

00:15:32.92
Jeremy L Pierson
ah Just a shout out to how wonderful my parents are. So my dad, when I was a kid, used to, when I would get out of the shower and I would wrap up in the towel, he would ask me, do you want it on like like a Superman cape or do you want it on like a dress? And so he would give me the choice if I wanted to be Cinderella or that, you know, and I told my dad about that recently and he doesn't even remember doing it. And I said, that's how normal it was to you, dad.

00:15:57.62
Mike
right

00:15:58.34
Bill
right

00:15:58.49
Jeremy L Pierson
you know, but the fact that I remember it is how meaningful it is to me.

00:16:02.47
Bill
right

00:16:03.13
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. So, um, but at school, that's not what it's like. Right. So I had to pretend I liked, you know, the A-team and G.I.

00:16:06.87
Mike
yeah right

00:16:10.43
Jeremy L Pierson
i Joe and, and I mean, I liked T-Man, but that's a whole different reason, but, but, um, so, you know, at school,

00:16:11.61
Bill
here

00:16:14.30
Bill
here

00:16:23.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I remember when it it was in third grade where things started to get really strange for me. And I remember when people would say, are you a faggot? Are you ah this and that?

00:16:30.86
Mike
Right.

00:16:31.22
Jeremy L Pierson
And I didn't know what it meant, but I knew that what they were saying, the answer should be no. i knew that I knew that I needed to say no, whatever that is, I'm not that.

00:16:36.70
Mike
Right.

00:16:39.10
Jeremy L Pierson
And because I didn't know what they were talking about, I thought, well, I just, whatever I'm doing is making them ask that question.

00:16:39.19
Mike
Right.

00:16:46.04
Jeremy L Pierson
So I better just not do anything that I normally do.

00:16:48.87
Mike
Mm.

00:16:49.40
Jeremy L Pierson
So now I have to, in third grade, take try it try to take on a persona that doesn't exist. Like that's just like, be someone completely different. And I i can't, and I'm failing at it.

00:17:00.04
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:00.95
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

00:17:00.98
Mike
Right.

00:17:02.01
Jeremy L Pierson
um I remember how terrified I was to ever go into the boys' bathroom because I didn't want to be alone with boys because I didn't know if they were going to start doing that thing again and saying those things again, and I didn't know what was going on.

00:17:15.29
Jeremy L Pierson
So it was a very, very confusing time, and it it never got better, right?

00:17:20.70
Bill
Right.

00:17:21.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:21.54
Jeremy L Pierson
So that was the beginning of it, and it only got worse as I learned what they were talking about. So you know alcohol really solved that problem for me.

00:17:31.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:17:32.41
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And so I would drink, I would take alcohol with me in the morning to, to choir because I had choir in the morning and I just, I, we all did, we were all drinking in there, but there was a reason for that because it loosens up your vocal cords.

00:17:44.45
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

00:17:44.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:45.53
Jeremy L Pierson
So, you know, we're all, I've found those people. I found my people. It was the drama kids because they're, Not only are they doing drugs and drinking alcohol, but they also are completely lost and confused about who they are and they're very accepting.

00:17:57.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:58.78
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I found my people. it was the We're the ones that ditch school, we're the ones that smoke out by the bike lockers, like all of that kind of stuff.

00:18:02.73
Mike
Yep.

00:18:05.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:06.38
Jeremy L Pierson
and And so those were the kids that I found my way with.

00:18:07.63
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:09.46
Jeremy L Pierson
And also i would find the ones that had parents that would let us smoke and drink at their house. you know

00:18:15.22
Bill
Oh,

00:18:15.86
Jeremy L Pierson
And ah you know this was in the late 80s and early 90s, so you know latchkey kids, all that kind of stuff. um And so, yeah, so I ended up not graduating on time, right, of course, because my last year of school, I remember that my stepdad, they got this computer notification that got sent home and it was like, they they fucked everything up with computers when they started sending all that shit out.

00:18:39.36
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:18:40.48
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what i mean? because

00:18:41.05
Bill
oh yeah. Yeah.

00:18:42.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Because before that, you could just lie. But then they had this you know whole system that was like they they could fact check, whatever.

00:18:44.73
Mike
right

00:18:48.66
Jeremy L Pierson
but um So my stepdad said, you know, you've you've missed more days than you've attended. And I remember just thinking, fuck, how am I? So i this is where I start like learning to like really lie about everything, right?

00:19:00.31
Mike
ah

00:19:01.66
Jeremy L Pierson
um And oh, and then this is also where... where I remember my first Playgirl magazine, i i cased the place out for weeks, right?

00:19:12.65
Jeremy L Pierson
So there was this liquor store and I would just, I would go in there and just like, you know, look at like popular mechanics and all that kind of stuff and just figuring out how am i going to get.

00:19:19.61
Mike
instance

00:19:21.65
Jeremy L Pierson
And then finally I, so after several weeks, I stuck it inside of and the Playgirl magazine inside of another magazine And then I you know took it up and I bought it. And that guy knew exactly what I did, but he was so kind about it.

00:19:32.91
Jeremy L Pierson
And he put it in a you know put it all in a bag and let me steal the one magazine and only pay for the other one.

00:19:33.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:37.63
Jeremy L Pierson
And and that magazine was my best friend for years.

00:19:42.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:19:43.06
Jeremy L Pierson
four years. And, uh, yeah, absolutely.

00:19:44.15
Mike
Guys went steady. Mm-hmm.

00:19:47.35
Bill
hey

00:19:47.38
Jeremy L Pierson
And, uh, and I, there was a phone number in the back and I called the, I would call the phone lines and this is where my sexual addiction started. So, um, because the thing that I learned about sex was, although I was having sex with girls, um, that was just to prove I wasn't gay.

00:20:02.98
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

00:20:03.45
Mike
Sure.

00:20:04.09
Jeremy L Pierson
And, um, So sex to me was something that if I'm going to have sex um in a way that feels right to me, I have to do it in secret, dark places where nobody else can see and no one else will ever know.

00:20:17.90
Jeremy L Pierson
And and in those places, we say that we get to be out, but is that really out when you have to do it in secret? And you know I have to go to an in alleys, you know hooking up with people when I'm underage in their cars and and all of those kind of things that I can't tell anybody about just so that I can feel like I can be out.

00:20:35.01
Bill
Right.

00:20:37.37
Jeremy L Pierson
But that's not out.

00:20:38.69
Mike
Right.

00:20:39.51
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? And so my idea of appropriate sexual behavior actually doesn't exist. I was going to say it's distorted.

00:20:45.99
Mike
Right. Hmm.

00:20:46.77
Jeremy L Pierson
It's not distorted. There isn't one. I don't know what appropriate sexual behavior is. And so... you know When I'm in my early 20s, again, alcohol and drugs is the only way that I can cope with all of this because I finally come out of the closet with my family.

00:21:03.53
Jeremy L Pierson
and um That was a rough start. um you know That was really painful. for I remember my mother being in a lot of pain. and um so I moved out the day that I came out.

00:21:14.58
Jeremy L Pierson
um and To me, i got my story was that I got kicked out. and you know When we tell our story years later after doing the steps, it's very different than the way we used to tell it.

00:21:23.05
Mike
Right.

00:21:23.81
Jeremy L Pierson
but

00:21:23.86
Bill
right

00:21:24.57
Jeremy L Pierson
ah My story was that they kicked me out and um you know and that's the reason I was gone for all those years, but that's that's not what happened. but

00:21:32.67
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:33.88
Jeremy L Pierson
So I moved out and then I had a place of my own, which was full throttle insanity immediately.

00:21:42.26
Mike
eight

00:21:42.32
Jeremy L Pierson
right I'm the only one in my friend's group that has their own place. And so it's i'm I'm prostitution to pay my bills because I have a phone bill that's like $700 a month. And this is in the ninety s

00:21:52.36
Mike
Right.

00:21:53.87
Bill
Right.

00:21:54.39
Jeremy L Pierson
Which is like thousands of dollars now, right? And that's because I'm running up this insane phone bill. And so I have to do things that are illegal in order to pay for my phone bill. And so so I'm just like totally spiraling out of control. And then someone introduced me to crystal meth. And it i was like, it was...

00:22:12.79
Jeremy L Pierson
absolutely the best thing that I thought I'd ever experienced in my life.

00:22:16.15
Bill
yeah

00:22:16.19
Jeremy L Pierson
Crystal meth. um I remember the first time that I did crystal meth. First of all, all my clothes fit not that that night. I mean, it was like instantly I was a God, right?

00:22:24.57
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:27.35
Jeremy L Pierson
And I remember just, I remember sitting by myself and just writing and I wrote a novel.

00:22:27.49
Mike
Right.

00:22:28.77
Bill
Heh

00:22:32.27
Jeremy L Pierson
I have no clue what I wrote, but I just, I became an author, right?

00:22:35.65
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:36.12
Jeremy L Pierson
I was a philosopher

00:22:36.47
Bill
heh heh

00:22:38.30
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:22:38.42
Jeremy L Pierson
if I could have sold you anything. And, and like I said, and and, and I've always had a problem with my body and I didn't anymore. That first night, the body issues completely went away.

00:22:46.68
Mike
Right. Yep.

00:22:49.26
Jeremy L Pierson
So whatever alcohol did for me, crystal meth did it times a thousand.

00:22:54.07
Mike
is it

00:22:54.39
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And we know that scientifically because of the amount of dopamine that it releases. Right. So we know that it is, it is a significant difference.

00:22:58.55
Mike
Right.

00:23:01.19
Jeremy L Pierson
And, and so, um, yeah So things got really out of control. Then the sexual addiction like really kicked in because now I'm just having sex with anything that'll hold.

00:23:07.77
Mike
Right. Well, yeah. Yeah.

00:23:12.57
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, no, it doesn't even need to hold still, just anything at all.

00:23:14.48
Mike
No, no, no. Yeah, right.

00:23:14.89
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And, um, and I'm having a great time, right? it I loved it. I loved my life during that period of time. until you know legal issues started to happen.

00:23:26.34
Jeremy L Pierson
right

00:23:26.68
Mike
Right.

00:23:27.38
Jeremy L Pierson
so And it's always something stupid like um you know like a tail light out or something like that.

00:23:32.24
Bill
Sure.

00:23:32.50
Jeremy L Pierson
you know and i i end up and you know I'm trying to manage this this new career that I have at that point in time as a ballroom dancer, a ballroom dancer on crystal meth. So that's that's cute. um But during this time, really, it made me very creative and motivated. So it was working.

00:23:51.32
Jeremy L Pierson
It was working. And, um yeah, until it didn't.

00:23:57.14
Mike
is it That's from all of us.

00:23:58.36
Bill
Yeah, that's that tends to be the the story for a lot of us.

00:23:58.52
Jeremy L Pierson
And, yeah, right?

00:24:01.24
Bill
that it's It was yeah it was it was fun until it wasn't it it worked until it didn't.

00:24:02.04
Jeremy L Pierson
That's the same story, right?

00:24:03.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:03.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:06.20
Bill
And just to kind of, I guess, step back here a little bit to so when you were you said early 20s when you came out to your parents, am I correct?

00:24:14.30
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. So I was actually 18 when I came out to my parents.

00:24:17.14
Bill
Oh, OK. So I mean, one way or the other, you're talking early based on when you're early 90s.

00:24:18.49
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:24:21.34
Bill
Right.

00:24:21.99
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:22.67
Bill
OK. And, you know, I'm just thinking about that.

00:24:23.33
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:24:24.43
Bill
And I mean, um between the three of us on here, I mean, we're we're older than you. I was born in 68. Mike in 66. Right, Mike? Yes.

00:24:31.99
Mike
seven

00:24:32.76
Bill
Seven. um I keep forgetting how you're right on the other side of the calendar.

00:24:35.90
Mike
early 67. Yes.

00:24:37.24
Bill
Yeah. But, um you know, so but even that even that work we all grew up basically within the same time frame. You know, it's not really that different. And, you know, looking back at the and I'll just call it the the first of all, the lack of understanding about, you know, individuality and sexuality and um lifestyle choices and all those sort of things.

00:24:57.21
Bill
All that stuff was it wasn't even like it was not existed. You know, there there was one way and one way only. Um, and I couldn't even, I couldn't even imagine.

00:25:04.87
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:25:06.25
Bill
And I'm sure that there were, um, you know, I know for a fact that there were individuals in our high school, you know, that were, that were gay, but didn't come out. I know a couple of them specifically that were, that, you know, came out years later, you know, because it wasn't.

00:25:19.19
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:19.51
Jeremy L Pierson
and And I was in Orange County.

00:25:21.82
Mike
Right.

00:25:22.46
Jeremy L Pierson
and In Orange County is...

00:25:23.35
Mike
he

00:25:24.88
Jeremy L Pierson
like very, very, very ah Republican, right?

00:25:28.47
Mike
Conservative.

00:25:29.57
Jeremy L Pierson
Very conservative.

00:25:29.62
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:25:29.66
Bill
Oh, is it? Okay.

00:25:30.25
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, very, very conservative.

00:25:30.55
Bill
Okay.

00:25:30.68
Mike
Yeah.

00:25:32.17
Jeremy L Pierson
So I remember there was one other kid that came out when I was in high school and people threw bricks through his windows and threatened his family and they had to move.

00:25:39.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:25:40.41
Bill
yeah

00:25:41.96
Mike
Right.

00:25:42.30
Jeremy L Pierson
This whole family had to move. And so I knew that it wasn't okay. So um i'll I'll come back and tell you more, but you go ahead.

00:25:45.85
Mike
Right.

00:25:48.22
Jeremy L Pierson
and I interrupted there, so you go ahead.

00:25:49.46
Bill
No, no, no, no.

00:25:50.02
Jeremy L Pierson
But I have a story about my coming out.

00:25:50.62
Bill
It's no, it's just that, you know, again, thinking back and, um and all that stuff. And like, like he's, like you said, you know, saying that your parents kicked you out. I mean, that's a, that's an easier, it's, it's sad, but that's an easier story than, you know, than in that timeframe, trying to tell the truth, you know, um because it just, it's, it's less scary saying my parents are, are, you know, out of their fucking mind and they just didn't care.

00:26:08.65
Jeremy L Pierson
That's it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:26:14.82
Bill
and They kicked me out there.

00:26:16.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:26:16.18
Bill
They neglect their neglectful, you know, So that's why I get kicked out rather than you know rather than I made a lifestyle choice and I told them – or or i I told them about my lifestyle and you know they kicked me out because of that because then that's intolerance and that's – this just wasn't even he even thought of.

00:26:23.11
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:26:31.07
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:26:32.66
Bill
But yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt.

00:26:33.27
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:26:34.34
Bill
I was just trying to kind of put – don't even know just –

00:26:37.30
Jeremy L Pierson
No, you're absolutely right. And so there's a lot to it, right? So I'm glad you're bringing that up because maybe this can help some people out there, right? So so let's talk about that.

00:26:43.42
Mike
Right.

00:26:45.30
Jeremy L Pierson
um

00:26:45.73
Bill
Well, and there's a lot of things in this that this world has morphed into, and there's nothing that I want to get into about any of that.

00:26:52.03
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:26:53.44
Bill
But there's a lot of things that this world has morphed into in the last whatever number of years, including, you know, today, which are, you know, just fucking terrible. you know, and, but there's a lot of other things that, you know, the, the tolerance and the things like that.

00:27:02.35
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:27:06.82
Bill
And, you know, knowing that the kids these days, it, it would break my heart if one of, if one of my children or a friend of one of my kids or a friend of a friend, even one of our friends, you know, to, to this day, you know, would have to deal with that.

00:27:19.39
Mike
Right.

00:27:23.05
Bill
And I, I know it's still out there, don't get me wrong, but there, there's thankfully a little bit of a difference than a lot of bit, a lot of difference what it used to be. But, I mean, you know, the 90s and the 80s and the fucking 70s.

00:27:34.93
Bill
I mean, there's just there's it's night and fucking day.

00:27:35.09
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:27:37.11
Bill
But so anyhow, I just I was just kind of trying to get time frames there because I was just kind of all of it kind of I get it.

00:27:37.62
Jeremy L Pierson
Absolutely.

00:27:37.72
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:27:42.81
Bill
But it also blows my mind because, I mean, we were there, too. So I get it.

00:27:46.52
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, yeah. So I'm glad that you said that because, you know, when I think about the younger generation that's coming out of the closet now and they think like the world still has a long way to go. But um I just want to say to our LGBTQ community, please appreciate what your predecessors went through so that you can come out when you're in high school now that, you know, because that's not what it was like.

00:28:02.71
Bill
right

00:28:08.38
Jeremy L Pierson
we We couldn't.

00:28:08.38
Mike
Right.

00:28:10.26
Jeremy L Pierson
right we And it was life and death.

00:28:10.24
Mike
Right.

00:28:11.78
Jeremy L Pierson
We couldn't if we wanted to survive. We couldn't if we didn't didn't want our family to be tortured. But

00:28:17.94
Mike
Right.

00:28:19.26
Jeremy L Pierson
so so but here's the thing about my perception of it. right So I didn't come out. i i I was discovered in the closet.

00:28:30.08
Jeremy L Pierson
And this is like quite literally.

00:28:30.56
Mike
Hmm.

00:28:30.90
Bill
yeah

00:28:31.92
Jeremy L Pierson
So i I had my boyfriend at the time was at my parents' house and we were just like, you know, doing stuff on the bed. And my mom walked into my room because I wasn't stupid enough to lock the door.

00:28:42.93
Jeremy L Pierson
I mean, I wasn't smart enough to lock the door.

00:28:44.89
Mike
Right.

00:28:45.56
Jeremy L Pierson
And, um and so he went and jumped into my closet because there we go again, right? um So anyways, so that that's how that went down.

00:28:50.62
Mike
Right.

00:28:55.34
Jeremy L Pierson
And here's what happened. So my stepdad talked to me and he said, So my my my brother um is younger than me, eight years younger than me. And my stepdad said, i can't have that going on in my house because of your brother.

00:29:05.77
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:10.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:13.30
Mike
Right.

00:29:13.69
Jeremy L Pierson
What I heard is you can't be gay in this house.

00:29:18.20
Mike
Right.

00:29:18.47
Bill
Right. Right.

00:29:18.81
Jeremy L Pierson
What he meant is you can't be having sex with people because your brother could walk in.

00:29:22.32
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:25.34
Mike
Right.

00:29:25.53
Jeremy L Pierson
That's what he meant.

00:29:26.97
Mike
Sure.

00:29:28.12
Jeremy L Pierson
But I'm telling you that for 40 years, I thought he meant, or not 40, for 30 years, I thought he meant, you can't be gay in this house.

00:29:34.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:38.42
Jeremy L Pierson
That is not what he meant.

00:29:38.74
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:29:40.79
Jeremy L Pierson
And it wasn't until I did my step work and my sponsor said, wait a minute, what exactly did he say?

00:29:45.98
Mike
Right.

00:29:46.65
Jeremy L Pierson
And I told him what he said and my sponsor, you know I don't even remember it was my sponsor that said it, but somebody said,

00:29:52.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:53.59
Jeremy L Pierson
it You know what? It may have been my higher power that said, but this awareness came over me.

00:29:56.22
Mike
he

00:29:58.66
Jeremy L Pierson
was like, wait a minute. And I thought about what I actually know about my stepdad. And I knew immediately what he actually meant.

00:30:08.80
Mike
Right.

00:30:09.43
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And it was like, oh shit.

00:30:10.34
Mike
Yeah.

00:30:13.11
Jeremy L Pierson
I've built this entire life built on the idea that I'm someone who was basically an orphan.

00:30:13.39
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:30:18.63
Jeremy L Pierson
You know, I've been kicked out.

00:30:19.17
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:30:19.71
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't have any family.

00:30:20.89
Mike
Right.

00:30:21.24
Jeremy L Pierson
um And it wasn't true.

00:30:23.55
Bill
Right.

00:30:23.61
Mike
Sure. Yeah, I mean, that's that's a lot of what we do to ourselves.

00:30:24.41
Jeremy L Pierson
And so,

00:30:27.39
Mike
You know, we we create these we create these problems so we can justify our our drinking and using.

00:30:34.19
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah, yeah.

00:30:34.71
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

00:30:35.58
Jeremy L Pierson
And I remember my mom curled up in the fetal position sobbing and I thought it was because she hated me and it was because she was crying because of what I was going to have to go through.

00:30:46.04
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:30:47.70
Jeremy L Pierson
But that's not how I see it because you remember ruined my family because I'm in the bathtub for too long.

00:30:52.89
Mike
Right.

00:30:53.05
Bill
right

00:30:53.46
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? That's...

00:30:53.83
Mike
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

00:30:54.82
Jeremy L Pierson
Right?

00:30:55.64
Bill
Right?

00:30:56.00
Mike
aha

00:30:56.74
Bill
Okay.

00:30:57.30
Jeremy L Pierson
So when I came out to myself was um on my graduation day.

00:30:57.40
Bill
yeah

00:31:03.03
Jeremy L Pierson
so i um i have So my coping mechanism was I can't tell myself I'm gay because i'm i live in Huntington Beach, California. right So I remember when the diploma hit my hand, as soon as it was in my hand, I realized i was gay.

00:31:20.12
Jeremy L Pierson
That's when it happened.

00:31:20.45
Mike
Right.

00:31:20.76
Jeremy L Pierson
just was this, okay, we can go now.

00:31:21.31
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:31:23.70
Jeremy L Pierson
right

00:31:23.77
Mike
right

00:31:24.28
Jeremy L Pierson
And so that, so I remember I went, I had a girlfriend at the time and I, and I went to her house and, I think this was, this was a few days later when I decided, or maybe a few weeks later, i don't know exactly, but I decided I got a let her know the truth.

00:31:38.58
Bill
Thank you.

00:31:39.98
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. So I, you know, go over to her house and I knock on the door and the door opens and there's a bunch of people in her house, which didn't even occur to me that that was, that was weird.

00:31:50.94
Jeremy L Pierson
So the door opens a bunch of people in her house and I asked if she was there. They said, yeah, she's in her room. So I storm up to her room to give her the big news. And then I proceed to tell her that I'm gay um in front of all of her friends at her 18th birthday party that I had forgotten to attend.

00:32:05.18
Mike
Jesus.

00:32:08.07
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm such a dick. You know what mean?

00:32:09.14
Mike
Ah.

00:32:09.95
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm just, I am so self-centered and selfish that I can't even see anything going on.

00:32:12.93
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:32:18.55
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:32:19.96
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? So this is the type of person that I am, just just the person that am, right?

00:32:20.76
Mike
Yeah.

00:32:25.82
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:32:27.03
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm not meaning to hurt anybody. It's just like I'm just so self-centered.

00:32:31.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:32:31.97
Bill
Right.

00:32:33.27
Jeremy L Pierson
I have to tell you. I have to tell you. You have to know this. like, no, we fucking don't.

00:32:37.51
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:32:37.53
Bill
hey

00:32:37.87
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

00:32:39.29
Bill
hey

00:32:40.70
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, my God. So, yeah. So anyway, so as my life spirals out of control. Multiple times I end up in and out in jail. And I end up getting sober eventually. um And I was able to stay sober for seven years and I was able to do that.

00:32:57.05
Jeremy L Pierson
Really, i i i got a sponsor for a little while and I worked the steps for a little while. I worked in 11 step program, which in case you don't know, that's not the program.

00:33:07.79
Jeremy L Pierson
It's a 12-step program. But what that means is I did all the stuff that I thought would help me, but I never cared about anybody else. I never i never cared about giving back to the program or sharing it with anybody else or or practicing these principles and all our affairs.

00:33:14.66
Mike
Right.

00:33:19.54
Mike
o

00:33:21.86
Jeremy L Pierson
Fuck that.

00:33:22.33
Mike
Right, right.

00:33:22.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. um And so, ah you know, I stopped going to meetings as we always do. And that was about three years in that I stopped going to meetings. And my boyfriend at the time cheated on me and I had no program, no support. And so I didn't relapse yet, but I decided I would move to Albuquerque, New Mexico and start a whole new life.

00:33:43.38
Jeremy L Pierson
um And so we know how that goes, right?

00:33:46.23
Bill
ah

00:33:46.74
Jeremy L Pierson
By the way, Albuquerque, New Mexico, where they film cops, right? So that's that's the environment there.

00:33:49.88
Mike
Right.

00:33:51.58
Jeremy L Pierson
So I go to Albuquerque, New new Mexico to start my, to, to you know, I had it got a dance partner out there.

00:33:51.70
Bill
And Breaking Bad. hey

00:33:53.88
Mike
Yeah.

00:33:54.90
Bill
hey

00:33:58.30
Jeremy L Pierson
I thought I'm going to start this note competitive career.

00:33:58.42
Mike
Sure.

00:34:01.36
Jeremy L Pierson
And I really, really focused on my career. And I also got a boyfriend, focused on my relationship. And I also devoted myself to God and became an ordained minister.

00:34:12.76
Jeremy L Pierson
um And I thought all of that stuff was going to fix everything because as long as I focused on God, focused on a man, and I'm focused on my career, everything's going to be good.

00:34:22.56
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:23.58
Jeremy L Pierson
And i remember I remember when I was driving out there. there was a voice and I thought it was the voice of God. And I now know, and it talks about that in the big book Alcoholics Anonymous.

00:34:33.96
Jeremy L Pierson
ah that Actually, I think it's in the 12 and 12, not important where it is, but that we will you know hear what we think is the voice of God and it's really just our ego, right?

00:34:42.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:34:43.54
Jeremy L Pierson
And so the voice of my God at the time, which was my ego, that was my God at the time, um as we're I'm driving over this hill and the voice says, nobody in Albuquerque knows that you're an alcoholic.

00:34:47.77
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm.

00:34:58.01
Mike
Right.

00:34:58.62
Jeremy L Pierson
So you never have to go to another meeting again.

00:35:01.63
Mike
Mm.

00:35:01.94
Jeremy L Pierson
And I thought, that sounds like a great plan.

00:35:04.39
Mike
Uh-huh. Oh, yeah.

00:35:05.72
Jeremy L Pierson
so But I do need to make friends. So as soon as I get there, I go to the local gay bar on my first night and introduce myself. Hi, I'm Jeremy. I don't drink. And I just moved here. And I'll be your local non-drinker in this bar.

00:35:19.64
Jeremy L Pierson
And let me tell you something. An alcoholic trying to prove they're not an alcoholic, I can do that.

00:35:25.21
Mike
um yeah

00:35:26.01
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? So I didn't drink for for several more years. i was able i was able to do that until I got to five years. So for two years, I didn't drink. Going to the bar every night after work.

00:35:38.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:35:40.50
Jeremy L Pierson
And then I remember one night I was with some friends. And of course, my friends all at the time were all drunk drag queens. so So those are my friends. And it's Sunday fun day.

00:35:50.66
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm not having fun because they are. And I'm feeling left out and separate.

00:35:54.23
Bill
yeah

00:35:54.62
Jeremy L Pierson
And you know I'm not vibing the way they're vibing. And we all talked about it. We all got together. And I say, hey, I'm thinking about doing this experiment. I think maybe I'll have a glass of wine.

00:36:05.10
Jeremy L Pierson
And they said, that sounds like a great idea. we got your back.

00:36:08.06
Bill
ah

00:36:08.86
Jeremy L Pierson
We'll watch you, right?

00:36:09.75
Mike
Sure.

00:36:10.78
Jeremy L Pierson
So I have a glass of wine and the worst thing that could have happened happened. Nothing.

00:36:18.78
Bill
hey

00:36:20.28
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? Nothing happened. And here's here's how I judge if everything's okay. I i didn't i didn't end up in jail.

00:36:27.89
Bill
Right.

00:36:27.96
Jeremy L Pierson
I didn't burn anything down.

00:36:29.59
Mike
right

00:36:30.30
Jeremy L Pierson
i made it home. And when I woke up, I had my clothes on. Right.

00:36:36.12
Mike
is

00:36:36.63
Jeremy L Pierson
So like, these are my checks. It's like, okay, I'm like, like I'm good.

00:36:39.32
Mike
Sure.

00:36:41.07
Jeremy L Pierson
As long as those things that, and it it never occurred to me that that's not an appropriate checklist, but, but for us it is right.

00:36:46.30
Mike
Right.

00:36:48.34
Jeremy L Pierson
So ah nothing went wrong.

00:36:48.60
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

00:36:48.66
Bill
right

00:36:50.62
Jeremy L Pierson
And it was only a matter of a couple of weeks before I'm doing drugs. I'm in a codependent unhealthy relationship with someone who smokes marijuana all the time.

00:36:54.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:36:59.34
Jeremy L Pierson
And by the end of 30 days, I'm on Xanax, um just i'm sneaking I'm going to the bar early so I can drink at the back bar before anybody knows I'm there. And then I go around to the front and come in the front door.

00:37:12.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:12.73
Jeremy L Pierson
So I'm already loaded. And then every time I go to get a beer, because I'm drinking beer because I don't like beer, right?

00:37:18.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:37:19.38
Jeremy L Pierson
Because that's what we do right? And every time I go get a beer, I do a quick shot with the beer.

00:37:20.63
Mike
Right.

00:37:24.15
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm just doing weird weird shit like that, just like just like hiding in the backyard smoking cigarettes at night.

00:37:28.00
Mike
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

00:37:30.14
Jeremy L Pierson
you know It's just so weird.

00:37:31.09
Mike
Secretive shit.

00:37:32.15
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:37:32.22
Mike
Yeah.

00:37:32.79
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:37:33.99
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:37:34.36
Jeremy L Pierson
So, you know, and then it just really, it falls apart. I end up, oh my God. I remember I'm ah i'm at work and the the clients are complaining. They're like, Jeremy's insane. He's saying weird stuff on our dance lessons, like getting in arguments with students. It's just, I'm having hallucinations.

00:37:53.24
Jeremy L Pierson
My boss pulls me aside and says, are you on drugs? And I found that to be the most offensive thing I had ever heard in my life.

00:37:59.57
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:38:01.24
Jeremy L Pierson
Because I wasn't on meth.

00:38:01.47
Mike
Yes.

00:38:02.76
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I was only on Xanax, marijuana and alcohol. And so I'm not on drugs.

00:38:07.48
Bill
how How dare you accuse me?

00:38:08.57
Mike
right

00:38:10.71
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, clutched my pearls, right?

00:38:12.47
Mike
yes

00:38:12.66
Bill
ah

00:38:13.62
Jeremy L Pierson
And so they suggested that I take a couple weeks off of work and pull my shit together.

00:38:14.20
Bill
hey

00:38:17.70
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I did. I took a couple weeks off of work. And then I thought it would be a good idea to stop taking the Xanax because I thought that was the problem. And anybody out there taking Xanax right now, do not do that.

00:38:28.95
Jeremy L Pierson
Do not stop taking Xanax unless you're under a doctor's care.

00:38:29.38
Mike
Right.

00:38:32.31
Jeremy L Pierson
I had a psychotic break. And I called my boss's wife and said, you know, I'd like to, I'd like to talk to you. And so she said, okay, so she met me at a restaurant and I proceeded to tell her that her husband was sleeping with multiple clients and, and all of these things, none of it true, none of it, none of it.

00:38:51.36
Mike
Of course.

00:38:52.21
Jeremy L Pierson
So if anybody hears this and knows who I am and knows those people. They are the they are they are the most ethical people I've ever met in my life.

00:38:59.59
Mike
Right.

00:38:59.89
Jeremy L Pierson
They are like the mother and father of the ballroom dance industry.

00:38:59.93
Mike
Right.

00:39:03.89
Jeremy L Pierson
like Everybody loves them. They are so wonderful. And I – it was horrible. And I stood up and I told her off and stormed out of the restaurant calling her the worst things.

00:39:15.70
Jeremy L Pierson
And – you know So i I was asked to leave the state of New Mexico right after that. And um that's that's what happens. That's what happens to me.

00:39:27.67
Jeremy L Pierson
And so i that was a six-year relapse. And in that relapse, I end up – I become a drug dealer. i I start, in quotes, teaching independently, which means I can't keep a steady job at a studio.

00:39:40.34
Jeremy L Pierson
So I become an independent teacher so I can really just sell drugs and do drugs all day and like a couple of hours a week try to see if I can schlep myself to a dance lesson.

00:39:40.68
Mike
Right. Mm hmm.

00:39:49.96
Jeremy L Pierson
And and I can't even do that because I'm still showing up late for that. You know, I'm having to set multiple alarms. I'm having to call people and say, can you remind me of this? And all this kind of things to try to get, takes like 20 people to get me to show up for an appointment.

00:40:06.23
Jeremy L Pierson
I have to shave my head because I can't show up for an appointment to get my haircut. And if I do, I can't sit in a chair where people are that close to me because I'm sweating and shaking and acting weird.

00:40:16.36
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I just changed my persona completely.

00:40:16.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:40:19.48
Jeremy L Pierson
And um at this point, I'm, I'm being held up at gunpoint and then in an hour later teaching a Samba lesson to a bunch of people at Leisure World.

00:40:26.63
Mike
Yeah.

00:40:28.20
Jeremy L Pierson
You know i mean? it's It's a weird life, this Dr.

00:40:31.80
Bill
shift

00:40:32.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Jekyll, Mr. Hyde lifestyle where I'm a drug dealer by night and a dance teacher by day and just trying to hold it together. And it just continues to fall apart until on December 2018.

00:40:45.94
Jeremy L Pierson
In a drug-induced experience where i had I had turned into a werewolf, I was on GHB, and someone gave me some testosterone, which was a terrible idea for me because I like i turned into a werewolf, right?

00:40:58.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:41:01.06
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. And I had turned into a werewolf. I had been out hunting all night. You can imagine what I was hunting for. So I'm out hunting all night and I get in my car and I'm driving my car and I've completely lost control of myself.

00:41:13.92
Jeremy L Pierson
And if you ever remember the scene from 101 Dalmatians where Cruella de Vil is driving the car with her head out the window like a beast going around the corner on two wheels, that's that's what I'm doing.

00:41:21.34
Mike
a

00:41:21.37
Bill
ah ah

00:41:24.86
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm hitting cars all over the place. It's just a nightmare. And um I remember, because it was December 23rd, I remember looking in my rearview mirror and I thought I was in a Christmas parade, which would later turn out to be that I was the police for chasing me.

00:41:37.98
Bill
ah

00:41:38.17
Mike
Sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. sure

00:41:41.82
Bill
Of course.

00:41:42.20
Jeremy L Pierson
so

00:41:42.50
Bill
Of course.

00:41:44.44
Jeremy L Pierson
And I blacked out and I drove my car into the side of the library.

00:41:48.80
Bill
Of course you did.

00:41:50.49
Jeremy L Pierson
And that's not even the embarrassing part. so So i I don't remember the accident because I wasn't there when it happened.

00:41:57.40
Mike
yes

00:41:57.59
Jeremy L Pierson
And when I come to, the accident's already happened and I don't know what's going on. So I get out of the car and I'm thinking, how do I talk my way out of this? right

00:42:06.55
Bill
but

00:42:07.51
Jeremy L Pierson
And people are, it's eight o'clock in the morning. So they're Christmas shopping and stuff. And they're just like, you have to sit down. You have to sit down. They won't let me leave. And And i remember i remember that when the first police officer got there, he said to me, he said, sir, you're going to put your pecker away.

00:42:21.63
Jeremy L Pierson
So I'm standing there exposing myself to everybody.

00:42:22.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:42:23.38
Bill
yeah

00:42:25.73
Jeremy L Pierson
And don't know. it just And it got worse from there. There was a lot of things that happened. But I remember sitting down on the curb, and I'd been arrested so many times.

00:42:31.26
Bill
you

00:42:33.90
Jeremy L Pierson
And this was different. I i sat down on the curb, and I just remember feeling like, the universe turned into this big bowling ball and just rolled over me in slow motion and flattened me out.

00:42:50.52
Jeremy L Pierson
I just exhaled all good ideas that I had. There was nothing left. I just remember feeling so defeated.

00:42:55.53
Mike
Right.

00:42:58.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Thank God, because that saved my life. And I remember thinking, i'm not goingnna I'm not going to make any excuses.

00:43:00.45
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

00:43:06.38
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm just going to see what happens.

00:43:07.16
Mike
Yeah.

00:43:07.66
Jeremy L Pierson
And I was supposed to be on an airplane that morning to go see my family.

00:43:08.02
Mike
oh

00:43:11.74
Jeremy L Pierson
By the way, i believe that all alcoholics are allergic to holidays and allergic to airports because I can't do it, right?

00:43:12.34
Bill
Thank you.

00:43:21.43
Jeremy L Pierson
um So I remember when the police officer asked me, you know, what was going on. I told him everything. And I told him the drugs were in the front seat of my car. And what he found in my car was this obscene amount. And he was like, are you kidding me? And up nope, I'm not kidding you. That's that's me.

00:43:40.48
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:43:40.63
Jeremy L Pierson
And I didn't make any excuses. And I remember how I'm so grateful to the Long Beach Police Department because they're hopefully, I guess they're trained to ask the question, do you need help?

00:43:50.78
Jeremy L Pierson
Are you going to get help?

00:43:51.29
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:43:51.74
Jeremy L Pierson
And I said yes over and over again that morning. And I just remember every time they handed me off to a new person, they'd ask the same set of questions. And I would say, yes, I need help. Yes, I need help.

00:44:03.80
Jeremy L Pierson
And then there was this, the nurse, she had little elf ears on and a little hat. And it and it and it made me cry because she was so, ah that was what I needed.

00:44:16.30
Jeremy L Pierson
i didn't, i humans were humiliating to me, but an elf I could deal with, right?

00:44:17.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:20.73
Mike
Right.

00:44:21.56
Jeremy L Pierson
And she said to me, she said, she was having problem getting my blood. And she said, I need to tell you that if you keep doing what you're doing, we're going to have to take blood from places you don't want us to take blood from.

00:44:33.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:44:36.70
Jeremy L Pierson
And she saved my life.

00:44:38.31
Mike
Yeah.

00:44:38.73
Bill
Yeah.

00:44:39.29
Jeremy L Pierson
She saved my life by saying that.

00:44:39.33
Mike
Yeah. You. Yeah. You surrendered. Yeah.

00:44:43.89
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:44.41
Mike
Beautiful.

00:44:45.18
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:44:46.87
Bill
yeah And what what do you think, Mike? On that note, I think that's ah that's a perfect look at the time and then look at the look at where we are are at the story.

00:44:48.68
Mike
Yep.

00:44:52.02
Mike
and see

00:44:53.83
Bill
I think we've we've hit a turning point. So, Mike, what do you think? Take a quick break.

00:44:58.58
Mike
Absolutely. Well, we've gotten to the surrender. Now we're going to get to the solution right after these words from our sponsors.

00:45:13.50
Bill
All right, everyone.

00:45:14.15
Jeremy L Pierson
All right, everyone.

00:45:14.90
Bill
Welcome back.

00:45:15.41
Jeremy L Pierson
Welcome back.

00:45:16.27
Bill
And i I don't know if um if I should apologize for laughing about the nurse with the elf ears, but that just fucking made me laugh. And then the fact that you cried over it, and I'm like, God damn, I just laughed at a kind of what it was a touching moment.

00:45:23.03
Mike
Right.

00:45:23.39
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:45:27.03
Bill
But I couldn't, I i just spent a little bit of time in the hospital over the last couple of months and I couldn't imagine, I mean, If a nurse walked in with fucking elf ears, I think I would just lose, lose my shit.

00:45:31.59
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:45:35.71
Bill
Probably would have been when I went into detox too.

00:45:36.20
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

00:45:37.90
Bill
Well, you know I don't know when I went into detox, maybe they could have been wearing fucking elf ears for all I know. I was not very, I was, i was awake and I was walking, but I wasn't very cognizant during that timeframe.

00:45:47.94
Bill
So I got who, who knows Mike, right? I mean, could they, could somebody have been wearing elf ears when you went into detox?

00:45:50.94
Mike
right

00:45:53.82
Mike
Well, it was April, so...

00:45:57.04
Bill
I'm just saying, Hey, t to, to,

00:45:57.91
Jeremy L Pierson
That would have been really weird. Yeah.

00:45:59.29
Mike
Yeah.

00:45:59.61
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

00:45:59.81
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:46:01.05
Bill
to each To each his own. They could have been.

00:46:02.78
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:46:02.85
Bill
Who knows? are that's Maybe that's a lifestyle choice you know for for them. Not necessarily a holiday thing.

00:46:08.14
Jeremy L Pierson
That's right.

00:46:08.21
Bill
Maybe that's you know they became elves.

00:46:11.29
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what?

00:46:11.73
Bill
But.

00:46:11.81
Jeremy L Pierson
For those of you that like to well wear airfares, just you know do it.

00:46:15.64
Bill
Yeah, fine.

00:46:15.78
Jeremy L Pierson
Let's do it.

00:46:15.80
Mike
Right.

00:46:16.04
Bill
I mean, what whatever, man.

00:46:16.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:46:17.04
Bill
you know I mean, get your elf freak on or get whatever freak on that you want to get on.

00:46:17.30
Jeremy L Pierson
No judgment.

00:46:18.46
Mike
Absolutely.

00:46:21.75
Bill
but So, no, that was. ah Thinking you're in a Christmas parade. That's just fucking wild. I mean, all these things.

00:46:28.82
Mike
That's beautiful. Right.

00:46:29.63
Bill
Yeah, I mean, all these things.

00:46:30.14
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, that's how selfish as self-centered I am. I mean, I was waving and throwing candy out the fucking window.

00:46:32.09
Mike
right yeah

00:46:35.38
Bill
Well, and it just it just it's one of those things that like when you said so, we we've talked about this stuff ah so many times about stories like that. And I mean, we we laugh at it. I listen to and I watch podcasts quite a bit.

00:46:47.54
Bill
every Everyone not watch, but listen to podcasts quite a bit. And then every once in a while, somebody's telling that story. And, you know, everyone's like this. It's like this somber mood. They're like, oh, my God, I can't believe that happened to you.

00:46:57.64
Bill
And I'm like, that's fucking funny, you know, because I mean, it's the, the, the reason it's funny is because you're coming up on, you know, seven years on, on the other side, you know, now if, if you just came in and in this happened to you last month, I mean, both of us, both Mike and I would probably, I would think maybe be a little bit more subdued.

00:47:01.89
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:47:05.88
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:15.06
Mike
e

00:47:15.45
Bill
We probably would, we might not, we probably wouldn't have you on if you'd only been sober for 30 days, but, um,

00:47:15.96
Jeremy L Pierson
A little.

00:47:16.76
Mike
A little. Well.

00:47:19.90
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. Yeah.

00:47:20.34
Mike
Right.

00:47:20.66
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. You know, that would be a, you wouldn't want to know anything I had to say at that point.

00:47:24.47
Bill
But I mean, you know, almost seven years down the road, I mean, that story is fucking hilarious, you know?

00:47:25.21
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:47:30.07
Bill
um And I mean, Mike and I talk about our stories and and all sorts of things. And the beauty in those stories, and like like you said before, and and thank you, like when you had said you didn't plan on sharing whatever it was at the time that you were talking about.

00:47:42.29
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:47:42.49
Bill
You know, I mean, first of all, thank you for being, you know, feeling comfortable with it, because that's that's kind of the point. That's the point of any one of these conversations, nothing to do with us in particular. But I mean, our opinion is when when you get ah you know a handful of people, a few people, two people, whatever it is, you know, talking about these things that that does.

00:48:00.44
Bill
I mean, we we open up about these things because we've all been there. And yeah, why, why wouldn't you think you're in a parade? Why wouldn't you run into a, you know, drive your car into a fucking library? You know, I mean, any of those things, of course, of course that happened.

00:48:12.88
Bill
Right. Right.

00:48:13.71
Mike
Right.

00:48:15.29
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, the only thing that can stop me is a building, right? I can't, i it has to be something external and very, very large like that.

00:48:18.41
Mike
Yeah. Yes.

00:48:19.96
Bill
hey

00:48:19.97
Mike
Mm hmm. Right.

00:48:24.95
Mike
yes

00:48:25.18
Jeremy L Pierson
I can't, ah nothing, no human is going to stop me and no desire is going to stop me.

00:48:28.15
Mike
he

00:48:28.86
Bill
right

00:48:30.78
Jeremy L Pierson
That's the only kind of thing that can stop me.

00:48:33.21
Mike
right

00:48:34.58
Bill
So, so you end up in, uh, I'm guessing, well, first of all, you're arrested. I'm um clearly, I mean, obviously you were arrested and then, um, but you, you end up, I'm guessing in some sort of, some sort of detox or some sort of medical thing to come down off of whatever you're doing.

00:48:38.94
Jeremy L Pierson
I was very much arrested. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

00:48:47.54
Jeremy L Pierson
So no, that would have been easier.

00:48:48.90
Bill
and No.

00:48:49.62
Jeremy L Pierson
So i I did not.

00:48:50.04
Bill
Okay.

00:48:50.07
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:48:50.26
Bill
Okay.

00:48:51.66
Jeremy L Pierson
So I ended up, my roommate came and got me and bailed me out. And actually, not not my roommate, my partner. And that's a whole... another story too, but I live with a woman. She's my, she's my life partner and we we will embrace it.

00:49:05.08
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. So she's, I found, I found my best person and we decided to commit to each other.

00:49:05.84
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:49:09.68
Jeremy L Pierson
So my partner came and got me.

00:49:10.22
Mike
Cool.

00:49:11.83
Jeremy L Pierson
um And on the way home, she had came and got me before and it was different. This was different because it was a silent ride home.

00:49:20.94
Bill
Right.

00:49:21.18
Jeremy L Pierson
And that silent ride home I knew meant um we cannot continue this. If you don't do something different, you're going to have to go.

00:49:26.06
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:49:29.59
Jeremy L Pierson
And I did not want to put her through that. That was, I, if people say you have to get sober for yourself, I call bullshit on that.

00:49:36.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:36.99
Jeremy L Pierson
I got sober for her.

00:49:37.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:38.43
Jeremy L Pierson
I got sober to not put her through that.

00:49:38.78
Mike
Right.

00:49:40.63
Jeremy L Pierson
And it's changed my life. Now I'm sober for me, but, but get sober for whatever reason you can get sober for.

00:49:43.80
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:49:47.90
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. Um, so

00:49:49.08
Mike
I mean, yeah, one of the one of the greatest motivations of getting sober is you don't want to hurt the people that you care about anymore.

00:49:55.03
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah, absolutely.

00:49:55.80
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:49:57.02
Jeremy L Pierson
So i get home and i so so first I go into my room cause it's now it's, you know, it's Christmas and i and I go into my room and I, so I so lay down in a pile of dirty clothes cause I can't sleep on the bed.

00:50:09.88
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't deserve it. So I'm, I'm sleeping in a pile of dirty clothes and had to make the phone call to my family and tell them what had happened.

00:50:11.36
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:17.04
Jeremy L Pierson
And it was just awful. And then, and then I start to detox from everything. And it just goes black for for several days.

00:50:22.59
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:50:25.72
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't remember much about those days except a few things. So I remember that um that she had on it there was a little there was a chair in my living room and I would sit in the chair in my living room.

00:50:37.80
Jeremy L Pierson
And when she would go to work in the morning, i couldn't get out of the chair and not because of choice that there was a hand that I remember feeling on my chest that held me in the chair all day until she came home. And then it would, and then I could get up and go to the bathroom or whatever. So for eight hours, there was something that physically held me down.

00:50:58.94
Jeremy L Pierson
in the chair and it felt like a person holding me down. I would try to sit up and it would push me back down. And so I stopped resisting. I surrendered. I decided, well, as long as I relaxed in the chair, it wouldn't push on me.

00:51:07.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:51:10.23
Jeremy L Pierson
So whatever that was, it was kind and loving, but it was relentless and wouldn't let me up out of the chair. And so I surrendered to it and didn't fight it because I had drugs in my bedroom.

00:51:22.71
Jeremy L Pierson
So I could have used, right?

00:51:23.10
Bill
Ah.

00:51:25.02
Jeremy L Pierson
I was not safe. And, um, I remember there was a glass of water sitting on the table in front of the chair and it had a sticky note on it and it had a list of different phone numbers for me to call.

00:51:36.82
Jeremy L Pierson
And they were all different treatment centers. And I would stare at it all day and think about it all day.

00:51:41.21
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:51:41.98
Jeremy L Pierson
And I was working so hard to get close to making a phone call. And then she'd come home and I would tell her, I tried. I tried. And she was so kind about it. And she'd say, okay.

00:51:52.83
Jeremy L Pierson
And this went on for several days. So this it was a 10-day detox that I went through in that chair.

00:51:57.27
Mike
who

00:51:59.70
Jeremy L Pierson
And I remember watching the clock sometimes, watching the second hand because I wanted to use. And I just remember just watching the seconds go by. So they say we do it 24 hours at a time.

00:52:09.69
Mike
Right.

00:52:10.93
Jeremy L Pierson
I did it seconds at a time.

00:52:10.97
Mike
m

00:52:13.82
Jeremy L Pierson
And then um after after a few days, there was this television show called Mom. Shout out to that television show, saved my life. um So I had found it and I had never seen it before.

00:52:26.40
Jeremy L Pierson
So I found it on Hulu and I was watching it. And and it was like, for those, if you don't know, it's it's all about AA.

00:52:33.85
Mike
right

00:52:34.12
Bill
Right.

00:52:34.58
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I'm, and I was binge watching it. So I was craving craving sobriety, craving AA, but I didn't realize it.

00:52:41.50
Mike
Hmm.

00:52:44.18
Jeremy L Pierson
And I was watching it and I was binge watching it.

00:52:44.70
Mike
Great.

00:52:46.10
Jeremy L Pierson
And I would just, I would fade to black. And then when my eyes would open, they'd be in a meeting. I'd fade to black, my eyes would open, they'd be at fellowship.

00:52:50.95
Mike
Hmm.

00:52:53.86
Jeremy L Pierson
I'd fade to black, my eyes would open, somebody be relapsing. And it was, I was immersing myself in recovery already.

00:52:59.81
Mike
Hmm.

00:52:59.96
Jeremy L Pierson
And I say, I see again, self-centered. I didn't do that.

00:53:03.25
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:03.47
Jeremy L Pierson
My higher power was immersing me in recovery already.

00:53:06.23
Bill
yeah

00:53:06.63
Jeremy L Pierson
And and after 10 days, i remember one night I turned to my roommate and I said, I need to go to a meeting right now.

00:53:07.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:53:14.14
Jeremy L Pierson
And she got on her phone so fast and found a meeting and and she found a meeting and it was like, it's going to be at at eight o'clock.

00:53:16.35
Mike
Right. Keep the car running.

00:53:16.60
Bill
hey

00:53:21.50
Jeremy L Pierson
And I said, at six o'clock, that'll never work. I'm going to change my mind in the next 20 minutes. So we have to get me to a meeting right now. So we found one at seven and she drove me down there.

00:53:31.52
Jeremy L Pierson
And I remember i it was at the LGBTQ center. And so I went in and I told her, i said, you're going to have to stay parked outside because in just a minute, I'm going to come running out this door.

00:53:41.14
Mike
ah right

00:53:41.56
Jeremy L Pierson
Right?

00:53:41.66
Bill
ha

00:53:41.92
Jeremy L Pierson
so ah

00:53:42.36
Mike
keep the car running

00:53:43.00
Jeremy L Pierson
so So I'm already telling on myself, right?

00:53:43.54
Bill
hey

00:53:45.56
Jeremy L Pierson
So there's something changing in me already.

00:53:46.42
Mike
v this

00:53:47.52
Jeremy L Pierson
I am not allowing myself to not get into recovery at this point.

00:53:50.97
Mike
Right.

00:53:51.60
Jeremy L Pierson
Again, listen to me. Bullshit. My higher power is is making me honest, right?

00:53:55.82
Mike
Right.

00:53:56.97
Jeremy L Pierson
Because none of that was my will. That was all against my will. I remember when when I said I need to go to a meeting, I remember thinking, who the fuck said that? Because I knew that AA doesn't work.

00:54:08.29
Mike
Right. of course

00:54:08.92
Jeremy L Pierson
it It does not work. I have evidence that it doesn't work. And I'm never, that's not, it wasn't one of the options that was never going to do that.

00:54:11.61
Mike
this is

00:54:14.74
Mike
right

00:54:16.54
Jeremy L Pierson
I was just trying to figure out. And I was honestly thinking like, maybe I'll get sober for a little while and then I'll relapse again. And I'll do that two or three more times and then I'll die because that's a long enough life.

00:54:24.74
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:54:27.49
Jeremy L Pierson
Cause I'm already in my forties at that point. So I'm thinking that's, that's cool. Cause I'll make it maybe to 60 or something like that.

00:54:31.37
Mike
Right.

00:54:33.38
Jeremy L Pierson
I'll just do a few more rounds and,

00:54:33.53
Mike
Mm.

00:54:36.22
Jeremy L Pierson
and we'll be cool. So that was my plan, right?

00:54:37.57
Mike
Wow.

00:54:38.60
Jeremy L Pierson
So against my will, I go to a meeting and at my first meeting, at the end of the meeting, against my will, my arm went up, raised itself, and they called on me and I said, I need a sponsor and a commitment.

00:54:38.69
Mike
Uh-huh.

00:54:47.37
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:54:50.14
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm not leaving here without both of those. And I didn't pick my sponsor because I will pick for all the wrong reasons. I'll find someone who I think is attracted to me that I can manipulate or someone who's just going to be really easygoing or someone who looks like they're really popular or something like that.

00:54:56.89
Mike
Of course. Right, right. have to. Have to. Right, of course.

00:55:06.07
Mike
right right

00:55:06.94
Jeremy L Pierson
So the group of guys got together and I'm not sure if they were trying to decide who was going to get to take me or who's going to have to take me, but some straws were being drawn for sure.

00:55:12.44
Mike
yeah have to

00:55:13.13
Bill
Yeah,

00:55:15.48
Mike
have to

00:55:15.66
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

00:55:16.09
Bill
yeah.

00:55:16.50
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Half to, I'm pretty sure.

00:55:17.05
Bill
yeah

00:55:18.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:55:18.46
Bill
hey

00:55:18.74
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. But in my head, I'm like, they're trying to figure out who gets to take me.

00:55:21.14
Mike
yeah right of course

00:55:21.46
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, they're like, okay, you not me, you know, but

00:55:25.57
Mike
Not me. Not me. Not me. One of us has got to fucking do it.

00:55:28.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. So they gave me the literature commitment and they they they they told me that I'm going out to fellowship with them that night. And I was like, no, I don't want to. And they were like, that's what we're doing. So get in the car. And they took me out to ice cream and it was the most horrible experience of my life, like sitting there and listening to people laugh and talk.

00:55:46.11
Jeremy L Pierson
But you know what?

00:55:46.16
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:46.63
Jeremy L Pierson
I did it.

00:55:47.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:55:47.96
Jeremy L Pierson
I just sat there and they I didn't have any money and they bought me ice cream and i ate it and I was so miserable and feeling awful. And then they drove me home and they said, well, call us all tomorrow. And they gave me their phone numbers.

00:56:03.90
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I remember going into my apartment and i she was asleep and I ran into her room and I said, i did it. i did it.

00:56:11.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:11.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm going to be okay.

00:56:12.54
Mike
this

00:56:13.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm going to be okay. And I remember...

00:56:18.65
Jeremy L Pierson
I remember just saying, I i got a sponsor. I got a commitment. And I went to fellowship. And I got phone numbers. I'm going to be okay. And I started going to meetings every day.

00:56:31.18
Mike
Yep.

00:56:31.67
Jeremy L Pierson
And I did everything I was told to do. And I can tell you to this day, i have so I have done everything I've been told to do. I am not curious at all to see what happens if I figure out another way.

00:56:36.36
Mike
Yep.

00:56:36.76
Bill
right

00:56:43.03
Bill
right oh yeah yeah

00:56:43.10
Mike
huh

00:56:43.58
Jeremy L Pierson
i don't I don't want to know. I already know. So when someone in the program makes a suggestion that isn't going to kill me or kill someone else, I'll fucking do it. I don't i don't argue about it.

00:56:52.63
Mike
out

00:56:53.99
Jeremy L Pierson
It doesn't mean I like doing it or want to do it, but I do it and I've done everything and I can say that my sponsor is going to hear this and i he'll come I've done everything I've been told to do with no questions asked.

00:56:55.77
Mike
oh ru

00:57:07.70
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:57:09.50
Jeremy L Pierson
Because like I said, I...

00:57:10.62
Mike
Out loud. Yeah.

00:57:11.87
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:57:12.75
Mike
Well.

00:57:13.82
Bill
hey

00:57:14.16
Jeremy L Pierson
Lots of questions asked inwardly, right? Like, who the fuck do they think they are?

00:57:16.44
Mike
aha

00:57:17.48
Jeremy L Pierson
Why the fuck?

00:57:17.78
Bill
Right.

00:57:17.78
Mike
a

00:57:18.00
Jeremy L Pierson
like It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because they're staying sober, right?

00:57:21.66
Mike
ye

00:57:21.72
Jeremy L Pierson
So, so yeah.

00:57:22.39
Mike
well

00:57:24.95
Mike
Yeah, second part of the first step, man.

00:57:25.01
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:57:27.03
Mike
the The only step we have to do perfectly. My life's fucking unmanageable.

00:57:29.33
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:57:30.71
Mike
You know, I've said it on here a million times, right?

00:57:31.19
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:57:32.95
Mike
Yeah, fucking we're working on 16 years. My life is unmanageable.

00:57:35.96
Jeremy L Pierson
like Amazing.

00:57:37.23
Mike
I do not manage my own life. If I, if yeah, if I manage my own life, I'm going to fuck it up and I'm going to die.

00:57:39.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Still, to this day. Yeah.

00:57:43.00
Jeremy L Pierson
ah the

00:57:43.61
Mike
And I'm going to take a bunch of people down with me.

00:57:45.68
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:57:45.93
Mike
Yeah.

00:57:46.74
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, and that's, I think a lot of people don't understand step one, right? So it's like, from my understanding of step one, it's not that I'm powerless over alcohol after I take a drink.

00:57:50.40
Mike
Hmm.

00:57:51.19
Bill
Oh, yeah.

00:57:55.50
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm powerless over it long before I ever take a drink, right?

00:57:55.96
Mike
Mm hmm. Oh, yeah.

00:57:58.58
Bill
Right.

00:57:58.76
Mike
hmm.

00:57:58.98
Bill
Yep.

00:57:59.09
Jeremy L Pierson
I can't not do it.

00:57:59.49
Bill
Yep.

00:58:00.95
Jeremy L Pierson
i can't I can't not do my inappropriate sexual behavior.

00:58:01.02
Mike
Yeah.

00:58:04.68
Jeremy L Pierson
I cannot not watch porn. I cannot not do crystal meth, and I cannot not drink alcohol.

00:58:07.16
Mike
Mm

00:58:10.04
Jeremy L Pierson
So those are all things that I don't know how to not do, and I am not even going to try to not do them.

00:58:10.47
Mike
hmm.

00:58:13.61
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:58:18.38
Jeremy L Pierson
I just need to hang out with all of you people, and you help me.

00:58:18.95
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah.

00:58:23.26
Bill
Right.

00:58:23.99
Jeremy L Pierson
Because I don't have any other plans.

00:58:24.03
Mike
Yep.

00:58:24.15
Bill
Well, you know, the.

00:58:25.67
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't have any other solution other than i can't figure this thing out.

00:58:31.42
Mike
Right. Absolutely.

00:58:32.50
Jeremy L Pierson
There's so many people.

00:58:32.60
Bill
And the the other thing that the other thing that you had mentioned, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but just I kind of want to didn't get too far away from it.

00:58:33.66
Jeremy L Pierson
are Yeah, go ahead.

00:58:38.57
Bill
When you said that you've done everything that's been you know suggested of you and told to you and that sort of thing. And we were just talking about this actually recently, but we've talked about it plenty, is that, you know, there there is a point where And it's really anyone in this whole recovery thing, we feel the same way for the most part.

00:58:43.52
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:58:56.72
Bill
There's you end up with a couple of there's been some dickheads and, you know, that all of us know in in sobriety.

00:59:00.39
Mike
Right. Hmm.

00:59:02.35
Bill
And I'm not going to listen to those motherfuckers. But, you know, I mean, ones that I know better.

00:59:04.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Right, right.

00:59:04.25
Mike
right

00:59:06.07
Bill
But, you know, again, 99 percent of the people that are in recovery. And maybe even some people that have a little bit less time than us or a little bit more time, whatever the case may be. I know that people are out there.

00:59:18.06
Bill
they're They're trying to help me and they're telling me things and telling me to do things or suggesting I do things that are in my best interest. There's no reason for me not to listen. to them And the other thing, too, is you said that I think is important that, you know, you don't want to find a different way.

00:59:27.29
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

00:59:32.90
Bill
You don't want to find, you know, a what if type of thing.

00:59:33.58
Jeremy L Pierson
No.

00:59:35.42
Bill
And, you know, we we are which everyone knows it's listened to us. And obviously you've listened a little bit. I mean, we grew up and were raised in and all that Alcoholics Anonymous and that sort of thing. We understand there's other things out there, but neither one of us can.

00:59:48.38
Bill
And we've talked about it openly. We can't look back and think, what if I would have had this or what if I would have tried this? I don't care what what other people do If other people have used this path over here to get and stay sober and they're not hurting anyone and they' big they're in good shape and making their lives better and they're you know not hurting people, fine.

00:59:56.21
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:00:04.99
Jeremy L Pierson
Sure.

01:00:06.93
Bill
But I mean, I need to keep doing this over here. It's different than what I did you know when we were seven years sober versus seven months sober. And sure as shit versus seven days sober, you know, but there's still Alcoholics Anonymous.

01:00:19.90
Bill
That's that's our way, you know, of doing things. But I think it's ah the key point is that and we were just talking about this probably a handful episodes. I think, Mike, when, you know, some some rando off the street.

01:00:31.48
Bill
but it could even be a friend of ours, you know, that that we trust, but that's not one of us that says, you know, I think you should act this way versus that way. And my I might even openly say, you don't know what you're fucking talking about.

01:00:41.84
Bill
And then I'm going to go to my friend Mike or somebody else and say, OK, this guy said this.

01:00:43.30
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:00:46.20
Bill
Is he correct or no?

01:00:47.66
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

01:00:48.41
Bill
Now, if Mike says, yeah, he's actually right. I'll be fine. Fuck you. Then, you know, then, OK.

01:00:52.29
Mike
Yeah. Yeah.

01:00:52.79
Bill
You know, because I trust him and Jeremy, I would trust you and I would trust Betty and I would trust these people that are in the recovery realm of things. It's not that I don't trust non-recovery people, but I need, i go to the people that that I know for a fact know what the fuck they're talking about, you know?

01:01:11.00
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. Well, you know, I, yeah, absolutely. And I tell people that all the time too, is like, so when people say, well, I've got all these friends that, you know, that are normies and that's great, but they can't give you advice because they don't know what the fuck it's like to be you.

01:01:19.71
Mike
Yeah. Right.

01:01:21.56
Bill
right

01:01:24.04
Jeremy L Pierson
I need advice from people that know what, what my brain does and my brain, I have a problem

01:01:24.35
Bill
Right.

01:01:24.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:01:24.47
Bill
Mm-hmm.

01:01:28.83
Mike
Yelp.

01:01:32.31
Jeremy L Pierson
my I'm not allergic to alcohol. I'm allergic to reality. I have a problem processing reality, right?

01:01:35.81
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:01:38.17
Jeremy L Pierson
And so I need, like when you you mentioned Betty, you know, i I had been looking for years for a mentor for my spiritual coaching business, but I needed i needed i needed an ex-prostitute, drug addict, whore that is now a spiritual leader, right?

01:01:49.46
Mike
Yep. Mm-hmm.

01:01:53.69
Mike
Yes.

01:01:54.33
Jeremy L Pierson
like That's what I needed because i couldn't have it couldn't be anything else because those are all the things I am.

01:01:58.94
Bill
it

01:02:00.18
Jeremy L Pierson
right so I needed somebody who would know my particular brand of...

01:02:00.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:06.94
Jeremy L Pierson
of everything, right?

01:02:07.90
Mike
is he Right.

01:02:08.06
Bill
Yeah, yeah, all of it, yeah, yeah.

01:02:08.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:08.34
Jeremy L Pierson
That's, that's, that's what I need as my mentor, right?

01:02:09.34
Mike
yeah

01:02:11.18
Jeremy L Pierson
So, so it's like, if I'm, if I'm going to get advice from people, I don't even need you to know who I am. I can call anybody on the phone list from any of the meetings and tell them what I'm going through. And I'm going to get some pretty fucking good advice because, and then, or I could go to some of my friends that aren't alcoholics and get some really shitty advice.

01:02:21.68
Mike
Right.

01:02:26.66
Jeremy L Pierson
And it's not because their advice is shitty in general.

01:02:27.14
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:29.72
Mike
Right.

01:02:30.32
Jeremy L Pierson
It's because it's not the right advice for me because they're not like me.

01:02:33.78
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:02:33.91
Bill
Right.

01:02:34.55
Mike
Exactly.

01:02:34.70
Jeremy L Pierson
We're different, right?

01:02:34.84
Bill
Yeah, they they don't they don't know. and they you know cause Mike had help dealt with that. cause they What was that? A couple of places you were you went through in, was it California that they were they were not not recovery people, right?

01:02:44.70
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:45.05
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:02:47.32
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:47.69
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, exactly.

01:02:48.09
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:02:48.14
Bill
They were just...

01:02:48.61
Mike
Yeah.

01:02:48.71
Bill
Right?

01:02:48.81
Mike
The fucking director, he was this psychologist and and it big fat fuck.

01:02:48.95
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Right.

01:02:53.34
Mike
And he wasn't one of us. And yeah, it was just like, I just look at the guy and go, you don't know what the fuck You don't know what you're talking about.

01:02:58.49
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah

01:03:00.18
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:03:00.92
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah exactly

01:03:00.98
Mike
don't don't tell Don't tell me anything. Right. And clearly that one didn't work very well.

01:03:03.54
Bill
Right.

01:03:05.54
Mike
ah

01:03:05.82
Bill
yeah

01:03:05.88
Jeremy L Pierson
listen yep

01:03:08.15
Mike
Yeah, right. Exactly. And and the the thing about us too is i one of the things I love about it is we're we're so fucking selfish and and they're giving us this advice and they're and they're telling us how to do things, yes, from our perspective, but also they're selfish and they're doing it to stay sober themselves.

01:03:26.88
Mike
So there's a certain truth in that and there's a certain purity in that that they're not going to fuck with you because if they fuck with you, they're going to fuck with themselves.

01:03:28.27
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:03:35.48
Bill
hey

01:03:35.50
Jeremy L Pierson
They're not going to say it's over.

01:03:35.74
Mike
it

01:03:36.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:03:36.79
Mike
Yeah, right. and and And we're selfish to the fucking extreme and we're not going to do something to somebody else that's going to fuck us up.

01:03:37.82
Bill
okay

01:03:40.92
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:03:43.83
Jeremy L Pierson
Yes.

01:03:44.06
Bill
Right?

01:03:44.82
Jeremy L Pierson
i love I love to say, i don't i don't trust people that say I can trust them.

01:03:45.07
Mike
Right.

01:03:48.94
Jeremy L Pierson
I i trust people that believe in karma.

01:03:49.72
Mike
Yeah.

01:03:50.90
Jeremy L Pierson
I i trust trust people that if you're an alcoholic or an addict in recovery, I trust you because the only way that you're going to stay sober is if you do the right thing to me.

01:03:51.32
Mike
Right.

01:03:58.68
Mike
Yeah. right

01:03:59.54
Jeremy L Pierson
and that That I trust.

01:04:00.03
Bill
Right.

01:04:01.14
Jeremy L Pierson
But you telling me out on the street that I can trust you, that I'm going the other way.

01:04:01.56
Mike
yeah

01:04:04.12
Mike
ah Right.

01:04:04.90
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't want anything to do with you.

01:04:05.53
Mike
Right. Right.

01:04:06.39
Bill
okay

01:04:06.46
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what I mean? I... you can You can go to a convention, an AA convention, or i i want to get a shout out to Crystal Meth Anonymous, by the way, because speaking of meeting people that can give you the right advice, there's also something to be said for whatever your drug of choice is.

01:04:13.94
Mike
m

01:04:20.50
Mike
right

01:04:20.54
Jeremy L Pierson
Please find your fellowship, right? So it's these are still, they are still stem from AA, but they're different fellowships, right?

01:04:26.94
Mike
here

01:04:28.14
Jeremy L Pierson
And, and and you know, a Someone who's only had a problem, I don't want to say only, but somebody who's had a problem with alcohol and never crystal meth doesn't understand what I mean when I say how turned on I get when I see a homeless person with a backpack.

01:04:40.68
Jeremy L Pierson
They don't know what I'm talking about.

01:04:41.31
Mike
Yelp. Right. Right.

01:04:43.51
Jeremy L Pierson
That I'm like, yeah, I want to take you to – I'm going to give you a shower and then we're we're on, right? so um But anybody in CMA knows what I'm talking about, right?

01:04:48.15
Mike
right

01:04:52.66
Jeremy L Pierson
So I need someone who understands me.

01:04:52.73
Mike
he

01:04:54.46
Jeremy L Pierson
So those of you out there, please find your – if you feel like you can't share what you want to share, like what really happened in your fellowship, please find a fellowship where you can absolutely get open about –

01:05:01.43
Mike
right

01:05:05.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:05.66
Jeremy L Pierson
what really makes you dance because that's absolutely, to me, that's absolutely crucial. And I go to AA, I go to CMA, I go to NA, but for me, primarily CMA at this point, but I still go to it a lot of AA and I couldn't have done it without AA.

01:05:10.49
Bill
to AA, I to AA,

01:05:17.57
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:05:20.34
Jeremy L Pierson
But if I hadn't found CMA, I really don't think I would have made it.

01:05:20.83
Mike
Right.

01:05:24.34
Mike
Right.

01:05:24.73
Jeremy L Pierson
I really don't think I would have because their readings are different. Their readings make me laugh because they they have a reading that says, are are you a tweaker? And it lists all these different things.

01:05:32.21
Mike
Right.

01:05:33.61
Jeremy L Pierson
It was like, check, check, check, right?

01:05:35.45
Mike
Right.

01:05:36.15
Jeremy L Pierson
So that's that thing about getting advice from the right people, right, is absolutely crucial. Yeah,

01:05:43.83
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, you know, well, Bill, there is strictly a drunk. um You know, I'm a fucking heroin addict.

01:05:50.42
Bill
Yeah, yep.

01:05:52.58
Mike
I did plenty of fucking math. ah You know, that was my first heart drug.

01:05:55.45
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah. We got balance it out, right? Mm-hmm.

01:05:58.65
Mike
Right. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, that was my first hard drug um when I was 16.

01:06:00.50
Bill
Yeah.

01:06:02.45
Mike
You know, i I went to high school in Sacramento, which in the 80s, there were more crank labs per capita in Sacramento County than anywhere else in the world. So we had pure, cheap, beautiful stuff.

01:06:13.94
Mike
ah Yeah, I suppose.

01:06:14.02
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, lucky. Lucky.

01:06:15.83
Bill
hey

01:06:17.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:06:19.03
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, and you know what? And I do say that with all sincerity because I really feel that the best thing that ever happened to me was my addiction because I i do not think my life would be anywhere near the way it is right now if it wasn't for the fact that I absolutely trashed my life.

01:06:30.26
Mike
Right.

01:06:35.22
Mike
here

01:06:35.80
Jeremy L Pierson
like i

01:06:35.90
Bill
Right.

01:06:36.57
Jeremy L Pierson
the things This is the miracle of it all, right? is that Is that the things that I was in the closet about, all the things that I thought I had to hide in order for you to love me,

01:06:42.30
Mike
hu

01:06:45.73
Mike
Right.

01:06:46.17
Jeremy L Pierson
are the very things that helped me save people's lives.

01:06:49.62
Mike
Right.

01:06:49.88
Jeremy L Pierson
that That blows my mind. That doesn't make any logical sense.

01:06:53.82
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:06:54.46
Jeremy L Pierson
That the things that I thought I could never tell anybody are actually the the keys to being able to have the life that I always wanted.

01:07:05.08
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:05.74
Bill
Right.

01:07:06.39
Mike
Absolutely.

01:07:06.55
Jeremy L Pierson
i

01:07:06.75
Mike
Well, I mean, you know, yeah. I mean, i was, you know, fuck, I was a liar, cheating a thief long before I ever picked up anything. um

01:07:13.46
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, exactly.

01:07:14.01
Mike
You know, right. Yeah, exactly.

01:07:15.86
Jeremy L Pierson
Exactly.

01:07:16.42
Mike
You know, I was a fucked up person. If I hadn't gotten completely fucked up and then found the solution to being all that fucked up, yeah, I wouldn't be, you know, this... reasonably happy, reasonably comfortable person that I am today.

01:07:30.01
Jeremy L Pierson
v Yeah.

01:07:31.66
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Right. I'd i'd still be a fucking liar, cheat a thief and all fucked up in my head. and Yeah. And hiding things and and not being honest and and and not being my true self.

01:07:42.66
Mike
Right.

01:07:43.26
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, yeah.

01:07:43.34
Mike
So, yeah.

01:07:43.86
Jeremy L Pierson
And isn't it great that to me that that that's the thing about how this works is that it's such a beautiful way that it all works is because my bar is so fucking low.

01:07:55.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:07:56.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Like it takes nothing to make me feel grateful. You know what i mean?

01:07:59.23
Mike
Yeah.

01:07:59.43
Bill
Right.

01:07:59.67
Jeremy L Pierson
Nothing. Because of everything I've been through, I'm just like, oh, I woke up. I'm not in jail.

01:08:03.51
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

01:08:04.98
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what i mean? Like I'm not bleeding. I didn't kill anybody. This is a fucking great start.

01:08:07.51
Mike
Right. Absolutely.

01:08:09.40
Bill
yeah

01:08:09.82
Jeremy L Pierson
you know This is going really, really well.

01:08:10.20
Mike
There's

01:08:12.06
Jeremy L Pierson
My worst day, um it's super easy for me to be grateful. And it's so important that we continue to do things like what we're doing right now where we tell our stories so I can remember to keep the bar low.

01:08:17.19
Mike
hmm. Mm

01:08:21.92
Mike
hmm.

01:08:24.98
Mike
Yeah.

01:08:25.21
Bill
Right.

01:08:26.23
Mike
Yeah, absolutely.

01:08:26.51
Bill
Well, that's a, that's one of the things that we talk about, you know, the number one, the, the worth of, ah of everything we went through, all the, all this shit that we went through. and it does to, to your point, Jeremy, it has, it has worth. And we talk about that all the time that we, whether we had to, or, you know, maybe we did, maybe like you said, you know, you had to go through everything you, you did to be the person you are today. Who would you be, you know, without all that? um And again, i can look back and think that, well, did I have to, well,

01:08:54.08
Bill
It doesn't even matter anymore because, yes, once I stepped into it, once it happened, whatever the case is, it is what it is. And all the shit that I went through, like Mike just said, relatively comfortable, relatively happy.

01:09:05.04
Bill
But I'll tell you what.

01:09:05.31
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:09:06.76
Bill
Yeah, my my bar on happiness. ah First of all, we talk about that all the time. It's a, you know, happiness as ah is a byproduct of the way that we live our lives and the things that we do. And then happiness happens.

01:09:16.96
Bill
But the things that I could do for relatively no money, no time and no effort that actually bring me a little bit of joy. i mean, yes, I dip back and forth into this.

01:09:27.35
Bill
you know, like a gutter dweller in my head sometimes. So I literally had to pull myself out. And that's it's like gutter dweller and and down in the dumps is my is my default.

01:09:40.49
Bill
and And I figured that out on here over the last three and a half years since we've been doing almost four years now since we've been doing this shit is that, you know, I'm I'm this guy way down here.

01:09:43.26
Mike
instance

01:09:49.69
Bill
So I need to I need to keep moving and need to keep my brain up. And I wonder, well, sometimes I'm like, why the fuck? um Why am I in a good mood? You know, and I question being in a good mood, which is ridiculous.

01:09:58.11
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:10:00.13
Bill
Whereas if I'm in a bad mood, I'm like, well, of course I'm in a bad fucking mood. You know, it's just the way that I am. But the other thing, too, to go to go back to what you were talking about is we ran when we were at the we got sober in Cleveland at the Keating Center.

01:10:14.42
Bill
And at the time, there was probably, what, there was a handful of guys there that were just booze, right, Mike, I think, at that at that time.

01:10:19.42
Mike
Yeah, there's a couple.

01:10:20.67
Bill
But, I mean, there weren't that there weren't that many. There were, like, 50 guys in there and a couple, you know, a handful of guys maybe that were just straight-up booze. And then the rest were just this this fucking smorgasbord and this mixing pot of whatever.

01:10:32.99
Bill
They were, you know, yeah exactly.

01:10:33.50
Mike
Hi there.

01:10:35.03
Bill
I mean, Mike's done everything in a lot of it, you know. And and a lot of our friends, you know, the term dual addicted never even came into play.

01:10:37.98
Mike
Yeah,

01:10:43.20
Bill
Dual? Really? No, there's more than Yeah, there's there's everything addicted.

01:10:44.34
Mike
right.

01:10:45.43
Jeremy L Pierson
Just addicted. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:10:46.55
Mike
yeah right

01:10:48.27
Bill
But the thing of it is, is that, you know, we what we knew and what what I know today is that, If somebody, I can walk anyone through the the basics, the steps, and the the philosophies of of Alcoholics Anonymous and Recovery.

01:10:58.12
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:11:03.66
Bill
I don't care where you came from, what you did, what you who you are. But sooner or later, that person's to have to be able to sit down you know and talk about you know some of the more specific things as they, I hate the term, but drill down a little bit more you know into this.

01:11:17.42
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:11:19.19
Bill
This is what really, like you I love the fact you just said, makes you dance. that that made That made me laugh.

01:11:23.72
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:11:23.71
Mike
Hehehehe.

01:11:24.28
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:25.65
Bill
You know you got to talk about what makes you what either makes or made you dance.

01:11:26.58
Jeremy L Pierson
Uh-huh.

01:11:28.93
Bill
I fucking love that. you know So I have no issue with that. And I know my limits. I'm not going to try to, you know try to I guess, quote unquote, counsel a guy you know that did crystal meth. where The closest I've ever gotten to crystal meth is watching Breaking Bad.

01:11:41.75
Bill
I know.

01:11:42.35
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:11:42.55
Bill
I mean, that's literally, that's my experience with crystal meth.

01:11:43.67
Jeremy L Pierson
right

01:11:46.31
Bill
I've never been around it, you know, but the thing of it is, is I, somebody comes up to me, I can offer, I can offer a solution or I can offer them one phone call to baby.

01:11:57.66
Bill
And I could, I could probably put anyone or place anyone with somebody someplace. It wouldn't take, it wouldn't take that long.

01:12:03.06
Jeremy L Pierson
Sure. Mm-hmm.

01:12:04.36
Bill
We know enough people that know enough people that know enough people. you know But that's the that's the beautiful part of this program.

01:12:08.50
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:12:10.24
Bill
Anywhere in the country, anywhere in the world, you walk into you know a room um of Alcoholics Anonymous or or CMA or NA, whatever the deal is, you can walk into a room and you are comfortable and you're going to feel at home.

01:12:21.34
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:12:22.13
Bill
Even if all those people don't look like or you don't walk into a meeting of your peers, whatever your peers are, you're going to be at home and that's fucking wonderful.

01:12:31.35
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, I'm glad you brought up the peers because if you remember in the beginning of my story, I said, I'm not comfortable around my peers. and And that's one of the promises, right?

01:12:36.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:38.27
Jeremy L Pierson
Is that of that our fear of people will leave us.

01:12:41.43
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:41.70
Jeremy L Pierson
And it has.

01:12:41.82
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:12:43.43
Bill
Right.

01:12:43.77
Jeremy L Pierson
right It's like now i'm I can be comfortable around anybody as long as I'm spiritually fit.

01:12:47.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:50.07
Jeremy L Pierson
you know I like to say you can't stay clean on yesterday's shower.

01:12:50.05
Mike
Right.

01:12:50.13
Bill
Right.

01:12:54.26
Bill
yeah Right.

01:12:54.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:12:54.71
Jeremy L Pierson
right So as long as I'm spiritually fit and today I did the things that I need to do.

01:12:58.87
Mike
Right.

01:12:59.22
Jeremy L Pierson
um Yeah.

01:13:01.46
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:13:01.59
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah it's just It's amazing to me that I can walk into a room.

01:13:02.06
Mike
Well, yeah. but

01:13:04.43
Jeremy L Pierson
and I used to walk into a room and it was you were all my enemy and I was going to try to figure out how to convince you that you weren't.

01:13:11.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:12.18
Jeremy L Pierson
And now I walk into a room and I legitimately am thinking, you're friends I haven't met yet.

01:13:12.57
Bill
Of course.

01:13:16.50
Jeremy L Pierson
And I'm legitimately – it says we will also lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. I'm walking into the room and I'm curious about you. What a fucking difference that is.

01:13:25.27
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:13:28.95
Jeremy L Pierson
My God.

01:13:29.08
Bill
Yeah.

01:13:30.17
Mike
Yeah, I know.

01:13:31.03
Jeremy L Pierson
So, so much better.

01:13:31.77
Mike
Yeah.

01:13:33.02
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

01:13:33.46
Mike
Right.

01:13:33.50
Bill
yeah yeah

01:13:34.39
Mike
and and and right and And the cool thing is, I mean, you know, right. So I find out about you and I go, hmm, you suck. And I have, and I can walk away from you and not be concerned.

01:13:41.66
Bill
ah

01:13:43.89
Jeremy L Pierson
And that's okay.

01:13:45.15
Mike
Absolutely.

01:13:46.20
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:13:46.87
Mike
Right.

01:13:46.90
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:13:47.64
Mike
Right. But I don't, I don't have the prejudgment. I do want to find out and then I find out and, you know, either, yes, you're a very cool person or no, you're a piece of garbage.

01:13:50.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

01:13:55.08
Mike
And and then, i either Then I can choose, oh, I have choices today, whether, it yes, whether i well I want to be around you or not.

01:13:55.51
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:13:58.33
Jeremy L Pierson
this Oh, yeah.

01:14:04.28
Mike
That's a beautiful thing.

01:14:04.44
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:14:05.91
Mike
And as a consequence of that, I don't have a bunch of shitty people around me anymore.

01:14:06.02
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:14:11.45
Jeremy L Pierson
Right, right, right.

01:14:11.71
Bill
Right.

01:14:12.09
Mike
Right.

01:14:13.18
Jeremy L Pierson
Or at least they're not shitty to me.

01:14:15.03
Mike
Yeah, right.

01:14:15.29
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:14:15.77
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. yeah, um that's that's one of the things I wrote down. I have this like list of things to get ready for the podcast. I wrote down all the stuff I do.

01:14:22.73
Mike
Hmm.

01:14:22.80
Jeremy L Pierson
But one of the things that I wrote down, you know, because I got to make sure that I'm the perfect alcoholic addict, right?

01:14:23.37
Mike
Hmm.

01:14:27.80
Bill
Right.

01:14:28.38
Jeremy L Pierson
So, but one of the things that I wrote down is stimulating and meaningful relationships. Right. right? I am not, there are a lot of people and people that will hear this podcast and they'll go, oh, you know, I hope I'm in that group. um I've got a lot of people that that would say that I'm their friend, but that doesn't mean that that's really what I would say about them.

01:14:48.01
Jeremy L Pierson
There's a lot of people that I really like, right, that I get along with, but but i um I have a core group of people that i call my posse, right?

01:14:56.04
Mike
right.

01:14:56.21
Bill
Oh, sure.

01:14:56.24
Jeremy L Pierson
And my posse, those are the ones that in the middle of the night,

01:14:56.45
Bill
Oh, yeah.

01:14:59.80
Jeremy L Pierson
When you say we got to go, they grab a shovel, get on the horse, and we go.

01:15:03.05
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:03.08
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what I mean?

01:15:03.49
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:03.96
Jeremy L Pierson
it's it's some I don't need very many of those, right?

01:15:06.81
Mike
Right.

01:15:07.27
Bill
Right.

01:15:07.30
Jeremy L Pierson
But stimulating and meaningful relationships, the ones I will put a lot of energy into. I used to put a lot of energy into totally unstimulating and unmeaningful relationships, especially if you didn't like me, you had all my attention, right?

01:15:18.48
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.

01:15:21.93
Bill
Ha, ha, ha, ha.

01:15:22.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:22.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I can be in a room full of 100 people that just think I'm a rock star, and there's one person that isn't into me, and they've got all my focus and attention.

01:15:29.02
Mike
Yup.

01:15:29.94
Bill
Right.

01:15:30.10
Mike
Yup.

01:15:30.22
Bill
Yeah.

01:15:31.00
Jeremy L Pierson
But I'm learning to change that now and I'm learning to just put my energy and attention into the relationships that really, first of all, I can't be the healthiest person in my group of friends.

01:15:32.76
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:43.01
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm fucked if I am.

01:15:44.48
Mike
Right.

01:15:44.92
Jeremy L Pierson
right So I surround myself with people that make me want to do better, that make me want to be the best version of myself, but also people that when I'm not the best version of myself, they make me see that I'm being hard on myself.

01:15:45.69
Mike
Yeah.

01:15:58.26
Jeremy L Pierson
right

01:15:58.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:15:59.22
Jeremy L Pierson
So it's it's that balance of both.

01:15:59.31
Bill
Right.

01:16:01.02
Jeremy L Pierson
And so just learning, and it takes years to do that. It takes years to develop that community,

01:16:03.99
Mike
Yes, it does.

01:16:06.97
Mike
Yeah.

01:16:07.06
Jeremy L Pierson
And so one of the things I tell people that I work with in treatment is you have to start working on that immediately. And they they drag their feed and take their time.

01:16:14.50
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:14.94
Jeremy L Pierson
It's like I tell them, make your three phone calls a day. And they're like, well, how about one phone call a day? How about three?

01:16:18.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:19.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Is it three, right? um And it's because they don't understand that you don't have time to waste. It's going to take you years to build your posse and you need them now and you have no time to waste, right?

01:16:25.72
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:16:33.05
Mike
Right.

01:16:33.37
Bill
Right.

01:16:34.14
Jeremy L Pierson
And it just takes, it and happens naturally. So I have to go out and have relationships with people that don't work.

01:16:39.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:40.39
Jeremy L Pierson
I have to make friends and then they'll relapse and then they won't turn out to be my friend and they'll betray me and I'll betray them and all that. I have to figure out how to do all that.

01:16:49.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:49.85
Bill
Well, and the other thing I was just thinking about when you said it takes time, and I was thinking the same thing is that, and I know for a fact that both Mike and I have gotten better at our, and I'll call it our judgment of people.

01:17:03.84
Bill
To begin with, we were just blinded by and just wide-eyed and wanting everyone, because we fucked over so many goddamn people.

01:17:04.03
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:17:11.84
Bill
You just want everyone to be your friend, and you think everyone's your friend.

01:17:13.14
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:17:15.02
Bill
And, you know, the more you get into this thing and the longer you're around and the more you get to see people's true colors and then your blinders come off and then you get to see that it's not just not just people that are good, bad or indifferent, but.

01:17:29.94
Bill
Who you said it? I like the way you said that is being interested in in curious, you know, like walk into ah into a room. And I was just thinking about like podcast guests. Oh, by the way, ah Mike, I just ran across.

01:17:41.38
Bill
I was skimming through Instagram before we got on here. And um little Dickie is he was on a podcast episode with one of our somebody we know, ah a person we had on our podcast.

01:17:44.12
Mike
Uh-huh. Okay. Right.

01:17:50.94
Mike
aha

01:17:51.42
Bill
So side note, Jeremy, I'm.

01:17:51.80
Mike
okay

01:17:53.82
Bill
you We don't allow everyone on here. And I say allow because we make the we make the goddamn decisions. And just because you know Betty referred you, now that's a that's a leg up, don't get me wrong.

01:17:59.64
Jeremy L Pierson
listen

01:18:03.83
Bill
But if something would have felt weird you know in the interactions back and forth, um we wouldn't have talked to you.

01:18:06.33
Jeremy L Pierson
listen Sure.

01:18:10.14
Bill
Because there's there's two things that we look at. Number one, Does the person have interest? um Do we think that they'd be interested in what we have to offer, which we care a little bit less about that, but it makes the the conversation a little bit more engaging.

01:18:22.84
Bill
But, you know, also, do they did they line up with with who we are as individuals and who we want to put out to people who are important to us and those are the people who listen to us? You know, and there's just some people we just don't feel a fit, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that.

01:18:32.02
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:18:36.39
Bill
And we're not saying there's anything wrong with the individual, you know, but we want to make sure that it's going to be. And we've talked to people that we we we aren't looking for the OK, the person's got they've got they've got brown hair, they got blue eyes, they're less than six feet tall to this that we're not looking for a pattern.

01:18:52.91
Bill
We're looking for somebody that will interest us. And we've ended up, I think, Mike, with a with a really wide range of people that we've talked to. um And some that we probably never would have.

01:19:03.23
Bill
There's no way in the world we would have just chose out of crowd thinking, down let's talk to that person. you know they they Nine times out of 10 come to us. But the key there is the curiosity. and And having decent judgment, because here's the other thing is that I'm not saying that I've never had a bad relationship or never had a bad interaction with somebody because I have, you know, but the the key here is we've been really fortunate.

01:19:19.61
Mike
a

01:19:21.53
Jeremy L Pierson
And I wouldn't have believed you if you did. so

01:19:23.35
Mike
Right.

01:19:27.21
Bill
um i We've had we've had no bad guests.

01:19:32.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:19:32.25
Bill
Yet that there's there's two people that that we ended up basically saying that, OK, we're done with you. One was this little dicky guy, this guy, you know, he sees this as Mike called him, like this big swinging dick, because we I mean, literally, we thought that they having this guy on, he's kind of a big deal and was around that on TV shows and all this different shit, you know, would be good for our podcast.

01:19:43.86
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:19:52.32
Bill
But he kept canceling, you know.

01:19:54.37
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:19:54.97
Bill
And finally, we're like, you know what? Fuck you.

01:19:58.28
Mike
Right.

01:19:58.45
Jeremy L Pierson
That's right.

01:19:58.84
Bill
You know, without without telling them, fuck you, because if the after the third time they canceled, we're like, you tell them that we were we're not interested.

01:19:58.90
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:20:06.02
Bill
You know, have a have a great have a great day.

01:20:06.61
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:20:08.14
Bill
And then this other one was, you know, this this person strung us along. We were supposed to be one of the original guests or podcasts that this individual went on, if you remember that, Mike.

01:20:18.60
Bill
you know, the whole book thing. And then it was putting off and putting off and there were legitimate things.

01:20:20.41
Mike
right

01:20:23.36
Bill
And finally it's just, you know what, fuck this dude, you know? And, and here's the funny part. It just, this just occurred to me, probably the two of the biggest people that we would have had that we thought were going to be big people and really good for us turned out to be the the fuck nuts of the whole thing, you know?

01:20:33.94
Mike
Right.

01:20:37.18
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah.

01:20:37.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:20:37.77
Bill
And then, and then we get some, we get some random dude that had, you know, it' kind of a big name. We had, the you know, Chris Farley is right, Jeremy.

01:20:44.32
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah, of course.

01:20:45.24
Bill
We had his, we had his brother Tom on.

01:20:48.15
Jeremy L Pierson
That guy in a little coat, right?

01:20:48.53
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:48.60
Bill
Tom. Yeah, but we, yeah, but we had, we had Tom Farley on and his people are, his people contacted us.

01:20:50.20
Mike
Right.

01:20:50.40
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:20:56.13
Bill
He's in the recovery community. He's sober now.

01:20:57.57
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:20:58.17
Bill
And, and, you we, we sat there and and we shot the shit with Tom Farley for, we talked about Chris, don't get me wrong, but what um we specifically went into it, hoping that the conversation we were going to draw just to, Hey, can you tell us about your brother?

01:21:11.55
Mike
Right.

01:21:11.62
Bill
You know, you know, we wanted to talk about him and then he talked about that, how when he started telling stories, he stopped telling Chris's story and started telling his own.

01:21:12.18
Jeremy L Pierson
ah Right, yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:21:20.03
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:21:20.78
Bill
And that's when he got a better feedback from people. And then Chris was kind of mingled in, which is how the episode was.

01:21:23.15
Mike
Yeah.

01:21:25.90
Bill
It was fucking wonderful. But I mean, I guess my whole point with all this stuff is that the um I like the fact that I can trust myself now for the most part when it comes to my choices and relationships and with choices with people that I let into my life.

01:21:27.44
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:43.03
Bill
And I know when to when we just talked about was that last week, Burning Bridges, Mike?

01:21:47.68
Mike
Mm hmm. Yep.

01:21:48.41
Bill
Yeah, we just talked about that. You know, when when it's the right time to, you know, cut a motherfucker off and because a person may not be good for me anymore, you know, or the situation might not be good.

01:21:55.27
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:21:57.53
Bill
And I mean, like you said, Jeremy, that comes with time. Yeah, so getting your people out there and saying, you know what, do the work.

01:22:05.07
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:22:05.14
Bill
Yeah.

01:22:07.77
Bill
So talk about that a little bit. I mean, we've, we've talked a lot about, about everything else, which has been wonderful, but um I mean, so you've got coaching business, you got this and that tell people, tell people what you're doing.

01:22:10.11
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:22:15.77
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:22:17.37
Bill
And I will have the same thing as I did. Like we were talking back and forth. I have a link obviously in the, in the promos that we did, it'll be in the episode notes. And people want to look down whatever episode they're listening or whatever place they're listening right now.

01:22:30.84
Bill
It's going to have your Instagram handle, which is pretty much if if people can find you on Instagram, Our understanding is they can get into everything and anything that you do anyhow.

01:22:32.77
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:22:39.43
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

01:22:39.73
Bill
Correct.

01:22:40.49
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

01:22:41.24
Bill
Okay.

01:22:41.30
Jeremy L Pierson
Because my my link tree is on my Instagram. My YouTube's on my Instagram. So everything everything's right there.

01:22:47.48
Bill
Okay. So, but you do. Yeah. So you're, you're doing coaching, you're doing spiritual stuff. Dip into that a little bit and, you know, in the time we have left.

01:22:52.57
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah. So thank you. So, so the spiritual coaching, um so there's a couple of different areas. So it's called practical spirituality. I've started my own coaching business.

01:23:04.38
Jeremy L Pierson
And, um, so there's two main things that I focus on with practical spirituality. First, I bridge the gap between the visible and the invisible between spiritual experiences in everyday life.

01:23:15.42
Jeremy L Pierson
So a lot of people have experiences or hear concepts that feel maybe woo woo or esoteric or really out there or hard to explain. And I have a gift to be able to help translate those experiences into practical everyday practices so that they can make sense out of it and turned it into ah an actual way to live so that it's not just conceptual, right? So um so that's ah that's a big passion of mine is is because I feel like there's so many people that get that fall between the cracks because they they're interested in spirituality, but

01:23:48.51
Jeremy L Pierson
spirituality can actually be very exclusive in the spiritual community, right? So people will talk about things in certain ways. So I really like to be able to be there for people to help make it something that's so much more practical and every day for them.

01:24:00.41
Jeremy L Pierson
And then the second thing that I like to do is um I support the people who are supporting others. I like to call them the spiritual first responders, the counselors, the sponsors, the facilitators, and the helpers.

01:24:12.91
Jeremy L Pierson
They're down there on the ground doing work every day um and they often get overlooked.

01:24:13.10
Bill
Right.

01:24:18.03
Jeremy L Pierson
So I try to offer a space where they can receive support too so that they don't get burned out when they're helping everyone else. And um so those are kind of the two branches of my spiritual coaching business is to you know work with the people that wanna learn how to how to have these spiritual experiences, but in an everyday practical way.

01:24:24.69
Mike
Right.

01:24:37.72
Jeremy L Pierson
And um and then the spiritual first responders. So that's that's what that's about. And I'm really passionate about it. And i'm i'm I've been doing it for a long time. I did it as a ballroom dance teacher for years, helping people to be able to overcome their fears and do things that they didn't think that they could do. That was what I did for over 30 years. And then when the pandemic hit, I couldn't teach dance anymore.

01:25:03.10
Jeremy L Pierson
And so... it just kept going. its like people started calling me and asking me questions and wanting to go to walk on walks with me. and And I just realized, holy shit, I'm a spiritual teacher.

01:25:13.70
Jeremy L Pierson
That's what's been going on this whole time.

01:25:14.36
Mike
he Right.

01:25:15.74
Jeremy L Pierson
And I was just hiding behind ballroom dancing, right? I'm also, i'm I'm working on a few books. I have a book called Practical Spirituality where I just all these different spiritual practices and ideas that ah that have worked for me.

01:25:27.70
Jeremy L Pierson
Of course, everything that I do is through my own lived experience. I never, just like we're taught in the program, right?

01:25:31.37
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:25:33.35
Jeremy L Pierson
So i I share what works for me.

01:25:33.50
Mike
Right.

01:25:35.23
Jeremy L Pierson
And if you don't like it, there's lots of other people. And if you do like it, I can walk you through it. And And my goal really is to help connect a person to their own story.

01:25:39.40
Mike
Yeah.

01:25:43.95
Jeremy L Pierson
So you mentioned you know stories, telling your story. and And I feel like living your story, like we say, a God of my own understanding, it's also a life of my own understanding, a story of my own understanding.

01:25:56.44
Jeremy L Pierson
And so many of us so many of us are trying to live other people's stories, right?

01:26:01.43
Bill
bright right

01:26:01.46
Mike
Right.

01:26:01.91
Jeremy L Pierson
So like you said, with Chris Farley's brother and and how he found that he got better results by telling his story. And so um a lot of times when people come to me, they don't know how to do that yet. And so um I work with a lot of people that are in recovery.

01:26:15.16
Jeremy L Pierson
um you know And I always, I like to tell them, I'd like you to work the steps. And when you get to step 11, then we can work together. But um That's not a requirement, but I really like people to have worked with a sponsor first.

01:26:25.20
Jeremy L Pierson
um But then I get a lot of people too that that aren't in recovery and they're just kind of lost out there and trying to figure out how to find their way.

01:26:25.64
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:26:31.88
Jeremy L Pierson
And I feel like when you start telling your story the way it actually happened to you, or at least, well, I like to tell people, I don't know what happened to me. So everything I'm saying is probably a lie, but I'm not intending to lie to you.

01:26:43.42
Mike
Right.

01:26:43.83
Bill
but

01:26:44.73
Mike
Right.

01:26:44.93
Jeremy L Pierson
So I'm doing my best to tell my story as I remember it is the best I can say. But I get the best results that way, right?

01:26:49.95
Bill
Right.

01:26:49.99
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:26:52.85
Jeremy L Pierson
So really, um just really helping people to live, um you know, that the the that the tagline on the bottom of my email says, helping you align with your truth, connecting with your energy and live with purpose.

01:27:05.92
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:27:05.95
Bill
Right.

01:27:06.49
Jeremy L Pierson
Right? so So that's my spiritual coaching thing.

01:27:06.95
Bill
Right.

01:27:07.69
Mike
Yeah.

01:27:10.52
Bill
And you've been, how long have you been doing that?

01:27:10.73
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:27:12.24
Bill
I know you said you've been doing it forever, but kind of morphed into where you just focused on it.

01:27:14.39
Jeremy L Pierson
So, yeah. So officially for five years, it's all been word of mouth note now.

01:27:16.82
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:27:18.73
Jeremy L Pierson
So this is this is my first... I'm just now coming out to... Because, you know, marketing myself... ah except I mean, as a drug dealer, I'm down, right?

01:27:28.06
Mike
Right.

01:27:28.22
Jeremy L Pierson
could totally sell the shit out of that. But marketing me is really uncomfortable. And so

01:27:33.16
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:27:34.26
Jeremy L Pierson
So that's why, you know, when I finally, and it took me, I had been searching for a mentor for years and it was finally when I saw Betty that I knew, okay. And, and so we're working together to really get this going now and I'm super excited about it.

01:27:46.30
Jeremy L Pierson
And it's just, and you know what? I got to tell you guys, I'm having such a good time with you guys.

01:27:51.10
Mike
Cool.

01:27:51.74
Bill
ah

01:27:51.93
Jeremy L Pierson
This is so fun.

01:27:53.62
Bill
Well, and you know and the other thing that that we tell people too is that if there's ever anything that, because here's here's the point, is that we love hearing stories.

01:27:54.65
Jeremy L Pierson
This is great.

01:28:03.09
Bill
We love talking to people. And again, this is it this has been you know a really comfortable you know hour and 28 minutes, which is which is the point. I mean, that's the point. If if we're not i mean if it's not enjoyable, then what what is the fucking point?

01:28:16.00
Bill
That's number one. But um also we love it when when people are out there people in recovery that are doing new and cool shit with their lives, whether it's, you know, your spiritual thing, you say you're writing books, you do whatever, whatever it is that people are doing.

01:28:16.85
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. Mm

01:28:30.06
Bill
We always kind of tease about it.

01:28:30.57
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm

01:28:31.74
Bill
It's like, okay, take the time, come on here, tell, it tell your stuff, but you know, whore your shit out too. You know, you're fine doing that. And then, but on top of that too, that,

01:28:37.58
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:28:37.77
Jeremy L Pierson
hmm.

01:28:37.82
Mike
Yep.

01:28:40.02
Bill
Um, when when you complete a book or when, when you want some more help, I mean, if you want, um, we've had people that, uh, you know, I mean, we've told, told people, Hey, if you want to you know put together like a 30 second, um, recorded ad or something like that, we'll throw in the middle of something on our, on our podcast.

01:28:54.78
Jeremy L Pierson
Awesome.

01:28:55.96
Bill
It doesn't, it doesn't fucking matter, you know, because, because here's the thing, maybe, you know, um, ah maybe nobody listened to it.

01:28:56.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, great.

01:29:03.41
Bill
Maybe some people will. Um, but even if a couple people do here or there, like you said, this word of mouth thing, is really what social media can be. And believe me, we did a lot of work on social media, spent a lot of money for a year trying to market some shit that quite honestly didn't really work really well.

01:29:22.11
Bill
But you just never know who you're trying to hit. And then we've got this Instagram audience and then a podcast audience that is what I mean, literally almost mirrored flipped between male and female.

01:29:24.73
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:29:33.17
Bill
This is this is male centric on here. Our Instagram is female centric and it's 60 40, but flips around on Instagram versus here. Which I don't fucking understand.

01:29:44.58
Bill
i don't understand why.

01:29:45.21
Mike
Right. Exactly.

01:29:45.54
Bill
I don't understand why young women follow us old fuckers on Instagram when we're posting about dildos and titties and in all this different shit and whatever, whatever the fuck we feel like posting.

01:29:45.71
Mike
Exactly.

01:29:53.50
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah

01:29:57.28
Bill
And those are the memes that actually get those are the things that get the views and get the get the clicks and get the reactions. And I'm like, OK, I guess people want more fucking dildos, you know.

01:30:07.50
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, always.

01:30:08.70
Mike
right

01:30:09.50
Jeremy L Pierson
that You can never have too many dildos.

01:30:09.78
Bill
And I know.

01:30:11.34
Jeremy L Pierson
That's never a thing.

01:30:12.50
Mike
exactly

01:30:12.54
Bill
I know, but then then it comes to, you know, then I'm, then I'm here, you know, even when we have female guests, um, our female listenership, um, rarely goes, goes above, you know, 45%, you know?

01:30:12.69
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:30:23.69
Bill
So I don't understand marketing any more than the next guy. But my point is if you ever need anything, um, if you want us to throw something up or if you've got something you want to come back on, even if you want to come back on for, you know, half an episode or whatever and shoot the shit and promote it, you know, it's fine.

01:30:27.06
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:30:36.76
Jeremy L Pierson
I would love to do that again. Can I throw out?

01:30:38.52
Bill
Whatever.

01:30:39.10
Jeremy L Pierson
So I think my, my first book, the one that I think is the closest to being finished is called lessons from the dance floor. So it's going to be life lessons and spiritual lessons from the perspective of a ballroom dancer.

01:30:44.60
Bill
ha

01:30:49.16
Mike
Nice.

01:30:49.34
Bill
That's awesome.

01:30:50.04
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:30:50.38
Bill
That's fucking it awesome.

01:30:50.98
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:30:52.00
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:52.22
Bill
Yeah.

01:30:52.34
Jeremy L Pierson
So that's all.

01:30:52.54
Bill
you know

01:30:52.86
Jeremy L Pierson
I'm having a lot of fun with that.

01:30:54.94
Bill
I can only imagine because just the, just the whole point of, I mean, i know there's people out there doing ballroom dancing and don't I've been doing it for years, but you know, it just, it, it kind of blows my mind.

01:31:01.75
Mike
ye

01:31:03.12
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:31:05.02
Bill
And then like you said, you know, you drunk Taylor by night, like a ballroom dancer during the day.

01:31:08.13
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, right.

01:31:09.42
Bill
I mean, it sounds like a goddamn sitcom, you know? It's just, it yeah, it's just, it's just funny.

01:31:12.09
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh, it was. It was. Yeah, absolutely.

01:31:14.76
Bill
So yeah, whatever, whatever works out seriously, you know, I mean, obviously keep in touch and if we can help in any way.

01:31:19.22
Jeremy L Pierson
Well, you know, I'm never going to forget my first.

01:31:21.94
Bill
Right.

01:31:22.07
Mike
Right.

01:31:22.71
Jeremy L Pierson
Right?

01:31:22.90
Bill
Right.

01:31:23.51
Jeremy L Pierson
You guys have treated me so well. This has been great for me.

01:31:26.65
Bill
Yeah. I was going to say, I don't, I don't think this hurt too bad. i i don't think it, yeah, we weren't, we weren't dicks to you or anything.

01:31:29.94
Jeremy L Pierson
No, no, not at all. No, it was quite quite nice.

01:31:32.27
Bill
So.

01:31:32.67
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:31:33.08
Bill
No, this has been, I mean, again, just it's been a lot of fun. You know, I never know where these conversations are going to go. We thought, well, not even thought. We knew this would be an interesting conversation. And again, you know, being referred by Betty, that helps, you know, obviously when we get somebody referred to us.

01:31:47.48
Bill
But um it doesn't guarantee that you're going be cool. You could have been an asshole.

01:31:50.68
Jeremy L Pierson
Right.

01:31:50.72
Bill
We don't know. We could have been assholes.

01:31:51.45
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, absolutely.

01:31:52.66
Bill
but

01:31:53.14
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

01:31:54.39
Bill
So what else? Anything else that either either you think that that we missed? Anything else you want to touch on before we wrap up? Anything?

01:32:01.43
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, so I just want to throw one more thing out there.

01:32:02.09
Bill
Anything?

01:32:03.63
Jeremy L Pierson
I didn't really talk about it, but but I did spend some time in treatment, not this time around.

01:32:04.02
Bill
Right.

01:32:08.39
Jeremy L Pierson
So I just want people to know that I've been in treatment and i've also and this time I did it without treatment.

01:32:10.95
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:32:13.19
Jeremy L Pierson
So it can be done either way.

01:32:15.19
Mike
Right.

01:32:15.77
Jeremy L Pierson
Right. And I want to say that. And it's like, but the thing that I had to do is I had to put myself in treatment at home and and in meetings. I was in, I went to three to five meetings a day.

01:32:25.83
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:32:26.58
Jeremy L Pierson
And that was how I did it because I don't like bunk beds and I don't want to have to do double scrub.

01:32:30.26
Bill
ah

01:32:30.58
Jeremy L Pierson
I don't fucking do double scrub on Sunday. I don't want to do it. so So I had to make a decision, but either way, it was going to have to be six to eight hours of programming every day. And i was going to and and we turned our home into a sober living environment, made an agreement with my partner that if I'm...

01:32:40.54
Mike
Right. Yeah.

01:32:46.55
Jeremy L Pierson
I share my location services with her all the time. And if I'm not where I said I'm supposed to be, even to this day, change the locks because something's gone wrong and, and things like that.

01:32:52.43
Mike
hmm. Mm hmm.

01:32:53.59
Bill
Right.

01:32:54.68
Mike
Right.

01:32:56.26
Jeremy L Pierson
So it's, I just wanted to say, I didn't want anybody to think that, that, you know I just wanted people to know that I've been in treatment and I know what that's like.

01:33:02.70
Mike
hmm.

01:33:03.18
Jeremy L Pierson
And I've also done it without treatment and you can do it either way, but you know, it can, it can be done.

01:33:06.54
Mike
Yep. Yeah, but yeah, it can, but you have to do the work.

01:33:09.01
Jeremy L Pierson
It could be done.

01:33:11.80
Jeremy L Pierson
Oh my God. It's so much harder without treatment.

01:33:12.98
Mike
Yes.

01:33:13.92
Jeremy L Pierson
I highly recommend treatment because they, spoon feed you it's so much easier like the way that i did it without treatment was very very hard but it is possible it is possible yeah

01:33:15.67
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:33:22.33
Mike
Mm-hmm. Yep, absolutely.

01:33:25.75
Bill
Yeah. And I mean, we were in a, we were in a a sober living facility and it wasn't, wasn't locked down. It wasn't a rehab. it It literally is a sober living. And they introduced us to Alcoholics Anonymous, but it was a safe place to be where we, where we knew we were safe and we' we're comfortable.

01:33:41.46
Bill
We sell people, still people fucking around in there.

01:33:41.51
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah

01:33:43.58
Bill
Don't get me wrong. But, but we weren't, we were in a very safe and structured environment for I mean, a year and a half, right? Like, I mean,

01:33:51.32
Mike
Right.

01:33:51.66
Bill
You know, I mean, total between the three quarter house and shit that we were in.

01:33:54.58
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:54.74
Bill
But, you know, and we chose, you know, to stay within that within that program for that amount of time.

01:33:55.03
Mike
Right.

01:34:00.18
Bill
And then then Mike and I got a place together for a couple of years. So we stayed in in a very strong.

01:34:04.00
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. Cause after a year and a half, we weren't fucking ready to do it on our own yet.

01:34:08.66
Bill
Yeah, yeah, so so we yeah we fucking moved into we in together, but I don't know.

01:34:08.92
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:34:13.22
Bill
Yeah, it it it is, and and I'm glad you said that because it's i don't think that i don't think the people that listen to us are going to judge one way or the other whether somebody did or didn't because we've had so many different people taking so many different paths.

01:34:23.15
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:34:24.78
Bill
Just because we did it one way, ah you know, you did it another way. You know, it's like, where are you today? you're You're seven years out, and, I mean, you sound you sound like you're healthy-ish, know what mean? So...

01:34:34.78
Jeremy L Pierson
I mean, yeah, ish, you know, Yeah.

01:34:36.57
Bill
Yeah, I mean, we're we're all we're all ish.

01:34:36.63
Mike
Right. yeah

01:34:38.58
Jeremy L Pierson
yeah

01:34:38.81
Bill
We're yeah we're we're we're shooting around at 16, we're shooting up, and you know, shooting around, shooting up while shooting around at 16 years and we're still ish.

01:34:39.06
Mike
We're all ish.

01:34:39.51
Jeremy L Pierson
ah

01:34:47.92
Bill
Right.

01:34:48.12
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah.

01:34:48.12
Mike
Yeah.

01:34:48.40
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah. Yeah. I'm always going to be ish. And I, like I said, I can't stay clean on yesterday's shower so that my sponsor says that, that service is the secret sauce.

01:34:51.12
Mike
hmm.

01:34:56.12
Jeremy L Pierson
And I completely agree with that.

01:34:57.13
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:34:57.64
Jeremy L Pierson
So, you know, things like this, that it's like my life now is absolutely, I'm a service, I'm a service pig.

01:34:57.98
Bill
Right.

01:35:03.40
Jeremy L Pierson
So that's, that's it.

01:35:03.90
Mike
Yeah.

01:35:04.09
Bill
Right.

01:35:04.60
Jeremy L Pierson
It's I'm, I'm of service constantly. It's what I do for work. It's what I do for my passion. And whenever it's like this, this thing has taken on a life of its own.

01:35:10.07
Mike
Mm

01:35:13.47
Jeremy L Pierson
I remember when, Somebody said to me a while back, it was one of my Sponsi brothers, or we actually call each other Sponsi sisters. but um And he said he said, you know, Jeremy, your recovery is going to be bigger than you are someday.

01:35:20.14
Mike
hmm.

01:35:20.22
Bill
ah

01:35:20.34
Mike
hmm. Mm

01:35:25.28
Jeremy L Pierson
And it is now.

01:35:25.98
Mike
hmm.

01:35:26.28
Jeremy L Pierson
And it's taken on a life of its own.

01:35:27.06
Bill
Yeah.

01:35:28.44
Jeremy L Pierson
So i feel like when you when you really devote yourself to service, and to me, that's what step three was. Step three was the decision that I will give my life to service to others. and And it takes on a life of its own.

01:35:40.17
Jeremy L Pierson
And all I have to do is show up and say yes. And and I really sound healthy because I'm being of service right now. That's why I sound healthy.

01:35:49.64
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:50.10
Jeremy L Pierson
Because the moment that I'm doing this for any other reason, you'll be able to hear the difference.

01:35:55.66
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:35:55.93
Bill
ah Exactly.

01:35:56.38
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what I mean?

01:35:57.13
Bill
oh yeah.

01:35:57.40
Jeremy L Pierson
Like very easily.

01:35:57.52
Mike
Yo.

01:35:57.81
Bill
Yeah.

01:35:59.20
Jeremy L Pierson
Yeah, yeah.

01:35:59.42
Bill
f Absolutely. 100% agreed. So,

01:36:02.17
Jeremy L Pierson
you know betty Betty told me I should always say this too when I'm on a podcast. so I just want to mention that when i was ah I always had this vision that I was supposed to be famous. and and I remember that i used to at three o'clock every day, I would watch the Ellen DeGeneres show and I would cry because I was a drug dealer and I was watching it and I just felt like I should be on the Ellen show because I'm that type of person. But she would frown on that, right?

01:36:27.44
Jeremy L Pierson
So they don't bring drug dealers on. and And I felt like I had totally missed my purpose in life.

01:36:29.40
Mike
yeah

01:36:32.36
Jeremy L Pierson
And I had surrendered to the fact that I was never going to be the person I thought I should be. And um as I sit here right now, I feel like you're my Ellen.

01:36:43.64
Mike
yeah Wow.

01:36:44.86
Jeremy L Pierson
You know what I mean? So I feel, I can feel, I'm, this is, this is the life I thought I was going to live. It doesn't look the way I thought it was going to look, but I'm sitting here at my table and, you know, I'm on a microphone talking to all of you and not knowing who's going to hear it and being of service.

01:36:51.19
Mike
Right.

01:36:51.45
Bill
right

01:36:58.41
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:37:02.06
Jeremy L Pierson
And, and it's because someone saw something in me and they said, Hey, you want this guy on the show?

01:37:02.65
Mike
Yep.

01:37:07.10
Jeremy L Pierson
And that's, That is the vision that I had for myself. And now because because I fucked everything up, I'm getting to live the life i always wanted.

01:37:10.58
Mike
Right.

01:37:14.86
Jeremy L Pierson
So I just want to say thank you for making my dreams come true.

01:37:17.82
Mike
but

01:37:18.26
Bill
Yeah, well, and that's that goes back to, you know, you you've got some worth and then, you know, we're all we're all doing. That's what we do this. That's what we do this podcast. We do it because if we didn't have fun, we wouldn't do it. But, you know, we're we did it for ourselves.

01:37:28.90
Bill
But we realize that it is it's a it's part of our recovery. It's part of our program. And it it is it's ah it's it's service to other people. It's an opportunity for us to, you know, give a little bit of the shit away every week.

01:37:36.80
Jeremy L Pierson
Mm-hmm.

01:37:39.87
Bill
So it's ah it's good stuff.

01:37:40.39
Jeremy L Pierson
Yep.

01:37:42.90
Bill
All right, so um it's it's Mike's turn. If you've ever listened to the end, you know what's coming.

01:37:45.70
Mike
Hehehe.

01:37:47.10
Bill
But you and I, Jeremy, get to quiet down for a couple of couple of minutes here while Mike kind of runs us out, okay?

01:37:53.34
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. Thank you, Jeremy, for coming on. It was very cool.

01:38:00.64
Jeremy L Pierson
It's very cool act of time.

01:38:01.10
Mike
i had a great time. And as always, kids, be good to each other.

01:38:03.08
Jeremy L Pierson
And as always, big, good to each other, kind to each other, brought to some place where somebody else is.

01:38:05.14
Mike
Be kind to each other. Go out and do something nice for somebody else this week. And don't tell anybody you did it.

01:38:09.04
Jeremy L Pierson
Don't tell anyone who did it.

01:38:11.00
Mike
Now, from the bottom of my heart to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the ends of the earth, always and eternally,

01:38:11.80
Jeremy L Pierson
Now, from the bottom of my life to the depths of my soul, from the beginning of time until the end of the earth, always can return to me.

01:38:22.87
Mike
Fuck you.

01:38:23.21
Jeremy L Pierson
Fuck you.

01:38:24.28
Mike
Now it's that time, kids.

01:38:24.69
Jeremy L Pierson
Now it's that time, kids. It's time for you fuck off.

01:38:26.24
Mike
It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off.

01:38:28.25
Jeremy L Pierson
Then keep fucking off.

01:38:29.20
Mike
Keep fucking off till you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:38:29.77
Jeremy L Pierson
Keep fucking off until you get to a gate with sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:38:35.29
Mike
Climb over that gate.

01:38:35.56
Jeremy L Pierson
Climb over that gate.

01:38:36.77
Mike
Dream the impossible dream.

01:38:37.30
Jeremy L Pierson
Dream the impossible dream.

01:38:39.05
Mike
And keep fucking off forever.

01:38:40.28
Jeremy L Pierson
Keep fucking off forever.

01:38:43.35
Bill
ah Again, one of one of my favorite parts.

01:38:44.36
Jeremy L Pierson
Done. Alright, so here's

01:38:45.31
Bill
I know it's one of Mike's he always says because that means we're done. Right, Mike?

01:38:48.86
Mike
Means I'm done.

01:38:51.58
Bill
All right. So, no, seriously, Jeremy, thank you. Thank you very much. Obviously, as Mike said, I mean, we had a we both had a great time. And same deal. Hang out for a couple minutes. Don't hang up. Don't disconnect. Don't do anything like that yet.

01:39:02.78
Bill
But seriously, thank you for for taking the time with us. Mike, I love you, brother.

01:39:06.78
Mike
Yes. Love you too.

01:39:08.63
Bill
And I know we will talk soon. All right.

01:39:10.49
Mike
We shall.

01:39:11.17
Jeremy L Pierson
All right.

01:39:11.86
Bill
Goodbye, everyone.

01:39:13.02
Jeremy L Pierson
Thanks, guys. It's been an honor.

01:39:13.98
Mike
Thanks. Bye.

01:39:15.52
Jeremy L Pierson
Bye.