SoberNotMature - Episode 182 (Ian Fee - A Wild Ride)

00:00:01.75
Bill
Alright everyone, welcome once again to another episode of Sober Not Mature. And we do have a guest tonight, but before I i introduce him, and I say I because actually ah Mike is not going to be joining us tonight. Now first of all, um he's okay. He didn't die yeah yet We're all going to die, but he didn't die yet.

00:00:21.25
Bill
The reason I bring that up, Ian, is because we joke about that. The only reason that we wouldn't show up is if we're drunk or dead. um He's not drunk and he's not dead. Work got away from him today. And thank goodness we have a guest because then um one of two things, either I would have been up really late doing this thing.

00:00:35.46
ian
Just

00:00:36.88
Bill
um or you guys would have listen to me talk you don't have to do that we have a guest today so um if you've been paying attention on instagram i say that all the time some people do some people don't but we do have a guest tonight i'm gonna let him introduce himself and then um ian do a brief intro of kind of just who you are where you come from what you're about and then we'll get into everything okay

00:00:55.71
ian
Awesome. Thank you. Again, Ian Fee up here in the Pacific Northwest in the Seattle area, 52 years old, eight years sober, 34 years in a drunken debauchery, ah and and and excited to share some of my stories with you.

00:01:12.26
Bill
And you're an author too. So um I think we've got a couple of things to talk about. you've got We've got your story to talk about. You're an author. um i know you've got a website. You've got some business ventures and things like that, if I'm not mistaken.

00:01:22.65
ian
you

00:01:24.15
Bill
um But real quickly here, before we get into it. So I was kind of one way or the other, this would have been brought up. I've got a little bit of free reign to talk a little bit more openly. i I'm just joking. we ah Mike and I ramble all the time. but So you're in the Lake of the Ozarks. And I have i do a lot of traveling now.

00:01:39.70
Bill
um I do the kind of Airbnb travel. I've been doing it for like the last year and a half. I work while i while I travel and I stay in Airbnbs. I've been in Lake of the Ozarks four times in the last year and a half. And it's become one of my favorite places to be.

00:01:55.09
Bill
um Not this time of year because it's too damn expensive. um But where are you? I mean, I'm not asking for the address, but roughly where are you in Lake of the Ozarks right now?

00:02:05.09
ian
ah Mile marker 25, if everybody's familiar with ah Lake of the Ozarks, but it's also Osage Beach. So just just down from a couple of the popular bars here, Redheads, Performance Boat.

00:02:11.61
Bill
Okay.

00:02:16.37
ian
So just a couple miles from there.

00:02:18.47
Bill
Okay. Yeah.

00:02:19.08
ian
And it's one of what one of my favorite places, my favorite family trip of the 16 years I've been coming out here.

00:02:19.25
Bill
and

00:02:25.38
Bill
Yeah, it's, um I tell you, and i i don't even remember how I found it to begin with. Quite honestly, it could have been from watching the show Ozark, but I mean, only the only thing that's shot in that area is the aerial shots.

00:02:37.72
Bill
The rest of it's in Georgia.

00:02:38.03
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:02:39.07
Bill
They don't don't shoot the show or didn't shoot the show actually in there. um But that may have been a kind of got in the back of my head. But um first time I went down there, it was scott probably about a year and a half ago. And I Osage Beach is where I stayed um all three out of the four times I was in the same condo complex and um Pelican Bay.

00:02:56.98
Bill
I think it might have been.

00:02:57.52
ian
Mm-hmm. Yep, for sure.

00:02:58.76
Bill
I'm trying to I'm trying to think. Okay. So, i and up I, the, the one, the one time I went down, I was just, it was kind of like an on the way back type of trip. I was going see a friend of mine that came back and then again, fell in love with it.

00:03:09.97
Bill
I do a lot of hiking. So I went on hiking trails there and um just absolutely beautiful. So you, you intrigued me when you said you're at Lake of the Ozarks, but dub yeah, I love it there.

00:03:19.85
ian
Yeah, it is ah it's ah it's amazing. Been on a boat most of the day and ah wake surfing and just pool hopping. So it's been been amazing. I love it out here. It's one um it's my favorite it's my favorite hidden gem for sure.

00:03:30.50
Bill
Nice.

00:03:33.82
Bill
Yeah. You know, I tell you that the thing that I try to explain to people, which is, was hard for me to wrap my head around was, you know, it's it's one thing that, you know, getting going on the trails and things like that, looking at the lay, all those things are beautiful, but you can just drive to the damn grocery store and you're like, your mind's blown because of the, all the bluffs and the hills and everything like that. It just, I don't know. It just, it, it does. It kind of blows my mind. So.

00:03:55.68
ian
It's amazing.

00:03:56.79
Bill
Yeah, definitely. All right. So one of the things that Mike always does, and he and I kind of, we share duties on here. And one of the things that, you know, usually when we get into telling your story, because we do want to hear your story.

00:04:09.17
Bill
um But a couple of things, that and Mike always puts it this way, and I'm in full agreement. um We all know how to get fucked up. We know how to fuck up people's lives and in our lives and the lives of other people. But um we are interested in the solution, you know obviously what people are doing once they get sober.

00:04:23.83
Bill
Now, don't get me wrong. I mean, we're we're not fans of Drunkologs. um However, a little bit of background, what got you here is important. ah But the thing that we don't want to do is, you know, spend an hour talking about um this time when I drank and this happened to me type of thing, if that makes sense.

00:04:38.47
Bill
um You know, because really what what it comes down to, and I'm of the opinion that you just met with, and we'll talk about at least here in a minute, but um the sober curator, which we are a part of also, we're sober curators.

00:04:38.45
ian
Yep.

00:04:48.32
Bill
That whole website is is dedicated to living sober, not getting sober. It's not that, you know, people that are getting sober can't find usefulness for that. But um I don't know. I mean, getting sober wasn't necessarily, i don't want to call it quote unquote easy, but staying sober is where it's at. So um Yeah, take your take your time. Tell us ah tell us how you got here and tell us your story.

00:05:10.75
ian
Yeah, so my first drink was at the age of one. um Yeah, in Bellingham, Washington, in my little circle, little toy thing in 1973, my dad was, you know, back in those days, he'd sip on beer, and if you're teething, they'd give you some some whiskey to rub on your and on your gums.

00:05:28.84
ian
at the At the age of 13, I was bartending my parents' parties.

00:05:29.12
Bill
Right.

00:05:32.26
ian
They were pretty much social alcoholics, and, you know, everything evolved around alcoholism. around booze, you know, a pretty good athlete in high school, got into college. And that's where i was like, man, booze is my superpower.

00:05:42.94
ian
um And I battled, you know, as the life of the party, it was my, you know, it was my absolute superpower of of building relationships and networking and building my business by getting clients out to bars and strip clubs and and entertaining. So i I absolutely thought it was my superpower.

00:06:01.08
ian
And unfortunately, two failed marriages, three amazing kids, thought I was a present dad, but that, you know, we can talk about what that word means to a lot of people. It has a whole new meaning to me today. 2018, went to a pretty intense rehab in Seattle. They had one in Seattle and one in Florida. It's called Schick Shadle.

00:06:20.34
ian
And they actually induce vomiting. They give you Epochak. If you know have kids, you know what Epochak is. It induces vomiting. You feel super nauseous. um And they they give you shots of everything from Bailey's to Jameson to Guinness to vodka, you name it.

00:06:41.64
ian
They give it to you. You swish it around in your mouth and spit it out in the silver bowl. To this day, I don't have silver bowls in my house for that reason. And it induces vomiting for you're in this, you know, looks like ah a nurse's office a little bit. There's a big mirror in front of you. You're sitting in this chair. There's a silver bowl in front of you.

00:07:00.08
ian
We call them the bartenders. These nurses would sit next to you and check your vitals about every five minutes. Make sure you're doing okay because you're just violently heaving. And they try to get you to 18 shots of swooshing around in your mouth, spitting them out.

00:07:11.88
Bill
Really?

00:07:15.41
ian
yeah By the second one, you're just, you're not feeling great. And it hits your lips and it's coming out. And then they put you back in your room, no electronics, nothing. ah Then you have a pink bowl that you sit at the end of your bed and you get it all out of your system for like two and a half hours. Now they're checking on you every 15 minutes.

00:07:35.38
ian
And i remember staring at this clock and you're looking at this clock being, man, I'm almost there. And then they come in about an hour and a half later with some more Epicac and a warm glass of nice salt water for you to get down. And it continues again for another hour and a half.

00:07:48.81
ian
And of the 10-day rehab, um five days is that. So you have an off day, which you spend with a therapist and group and counseling and and all that. and they actually sedate you on that off day to get into your subconscious and ask you 20 25 questions.

00:08:07.55
ian
ah example would be like, you know who was who was your influence of booze? ah Where was your favorite spots? And some of the you after that, um you go chill in your room for ah half hour and then you meet with a counselor for two hours and they evaluate your questions. and you're like, I said, what?

00:08:23.45
ian
So it was ah It was a trip of an experience for sure, um but it absolutely worked for me. um To this day, eight almost eight years here in October, um I can still go to bars and I can still be the life of the party for sure.

00:08:38.66
ian
um But every once in a while, I'll get a woof of like a tequila flies by or a shot of something or a vodka seven. Man, my mouth waters to this day. So my aversion is absolutely still off the charts from that intense therapy, which...

00:08:53.70
ian
was a lifesaver for me.

00:08:56.29
Bill
Right.

00:08:56.91
ian
And from from that rehab, um unfortunately, I got out Halloween. We were taking daughter trick-or-treat and got served papers. So that was a big pivotal point for me, to that that my second failed marriage was ah staring at my face right out rehab.

00:09:13.47
ian
And that was a big pivotal point for me of like, man, I could, this sucks, kind of a another rock bottom. You know, everybody talks about rock bottoms. I i stacked a lot of rock bottoms. um I had a lot, to everybody asked me like, when where was your rock bottom?

00:09:27.22
ian
I'd be like, man, I got thousands of them. um

00:09:30.00
Bill
Right.

00:09:30.44
ian
I just stacked them until I couldn't stack them anymore. So I got punched in the face with that, um getting served papers. and But ah the damage was already done. I created so much collateral damage ah because of booze.

00:09:44.72
ian
So I had a really good circle around me, which is the pivotal point, which is still pivotal to this day to keep, I think, people on track, is is your circle is so important. of, you know, it's that old saying of like, show me your five friends, I'll show you your future, which is so true.

00:09:58.58
Bill
right

00:10:00.60
ian
Especially, you know, if you're battling sobriety or some sort of addiction, ah your circle, man, is is going to be the pivotal point in that. And that was a pivotal point.

00:10:11.55
ian
My people ah were so supportive. um You know, you always get that that fear of like, oh my gosh, what's this going to be like not drinking? Can I go to a bar? Can I go to a sporting event? Can I still go entertain my clients?

00:10:24.86
ian
And The impact that people saw in me, I didn't realize the silent impact I was making on others of being sober. I lost 70 plus pounds.

00:10:37.75
ian
um I used health and fitness kind as as my alternative vice, ah even though i really I didn't have Cravens, I still don't have them today. um And the circle has been unbelievable support. um The podcast with you guys and just being around you know people like Elise, there's just so many people out there ah that are are supports and that you can go do all those same things that I was doing before without alcohol. And I actually enjoy it better. And I don't have the biggest thing. i don't have any regrets anymore.

00:11:12.72
Bill
Right.

00:11:12.75
ian
And I'm sure, you know, a lot of us be like, I'd wake up in the morning and oh shit, who did I text? What did I say? oh my God. And that was almost daily.

00:11:24.61
ian
You know, I, uh, I would have parties at my house with my kids. Cause you know, i thought I was this great dad and you know, I'll be the party house. All the high school kids can be at my house. I know where they're at.

00:11:35.56
ian
Um, But I'm also the one, you know, hey, let's do some fireball shots and play music till two in the morning on a Wednesday. um And the that was just rinse and repeat. So obviously I i burned through ah through a couple of wives doing doing that um in in my drunken 34 years of thinking it was my superpower. And today my superpower is not drinking.

00:12:00.59
ian
And my business is better. My relationships are better. My friendships. I mean, everything is better. And nothing good came out of alcohol for me. I tried. Some people ask me, like, anything good come out of that? And I can't think of anything.

00:12:13.67
ian
People would be like, well, what about all your relationships? Well, my relationships are better now. One, because I'm not being rude and vulgar and loud. And, you know, as the life of the party, if the bar is closing at one, I'll be like, hey, what would it take to buy a bottle of vodka from you?

00:12:27.52
ian
300 bucks? No problem. I was that guy. um

00:12:31.12
Bill
Right.

00:12:32.22
ian
So, and I did the math on a podcast I did a a month or so ago. It was over a million dollars that I've spent on booze and parties and entertainment.

00:12:41.34
Bill
Sure.

00:12:42.72
ian
It's insane. I'd love to have that money today, but you don't realize... the expense of that as well.

00:12:49.06
Bill
Right.

00:12:49.26
ian
I mean, it was, yeah you know, I'd buy random people shots at a bar and before you know it, my bar tab $700. I'd be like, what happened? Or the next morning, of course, is like, what an idiot.

00:12:56.56
Bill
Right.

00:12:59.46
ian
I don't even know these people and I'm buying them shots and I'm thinking they're my best friends.

00:13:03.83
Bill
Well, you know, and that's the thing that, in and I don't know if, um and again, how much you've, you know, you've kind of dipped into what what Mike and I do, but um I mean, we got sober through Alcoholics Anonymous, but there's the things that we've learned over the last, and both of us got sober in April of 2010.

00:13:19.44
Bill
um Mike had bounced around a little bit prior. This is my first run at this so far. You know, I haven't, I haven't relapsed yet, um you know, but, and I always say, yeah, everyone's used to it because, you know, if I, if I stop doing the things I need to do, I'm going to drink again. I know that.

00:13:33.04
Bill
um But the one of the things that we heard right off the bat, which didn't really make sense to me to begin with, but does now, is exactly what you were just talking about, is that if you could even not yeah take away the term Alcoholics Anonymous to just use the word recovery you know as a club, recovery is the the most expensive initiation club or the the most expensive club to get into recovery.

00:13:56.32
Bill
When it really comes down to because the again, the relationships, the money, it's not just the the physical things that you lose or the amount of money you spend, the dollars you spend, but the the cost of everything that you did.

00:14:07.86
Bill
You know, now, the only thing that that we always talk about, too, that I and I agree with you. I mean, when you look at the huge positives out of, you know, ah a career or a ah lifetime of, you know, alcohol use, abuse, whatever we want to call it.

00:14:16.85
ian
Thank you.

00:14:20.31
Bill
The only thing that that we try to look at is that all those experiences, you know, have worth today, you know, because we can look at that. Number one, grow from it, realize we don't want to be back there, but also be able to sit down with a new person and say, hey, this is what we went through. I understand where you're coming from. It gets better. Keep doing this, this, this.

00:14:39.70
Bill
So the the cool part is that it wasn't in vain necessarily. um It took a lot of work. Yeah. a lot of work in a bad way to to get to where we're at.

00:14:46.52
ian
Thank you.

00:14:48.58
Bill
But but it but it does it does have some have some worth. But you know the funny thing too, and I mentioned this on here before, um I also have two failed marriages also based on the fact that I was a raging alcoholic.

00:15:00.51
Bill
The good news is i have wonderful relationships with both of those um individuals today. I've been able to repair all the relationships, thankfully, in my life. um you know But my my son's mom, which is my second ex-wife,

00:15:13.40
Bill
And she drank and partied a little bit, but I mean, never problematically. I was that way. she knew what i would say she knew when the party was done. I never did. you know Kind of like when you said, you know go until two in the morning with the high school kids.

00:15:24.78
ian
Yeah. Yeah.

00:15:25.23
Bill
But what I used to do was, that the if especially if both of us were drinking, we'd get in an argument. And I would, when, when I thought she was wrong, I literally would run downstairs and I had, I worked ah remote at that time, I mean, years ago and i was a sales rep. So I, you know, i traveled a little bit, but also, you know, had a home base.

00:15:44.50
Bill
So I'd write on a post-it note what, what I did, how, the reason I was right. You know, and, and I, and, and you think about that now, I wasn't thinking the fact that, well, you're in a blackout or you're going to blackout or you're not going to remember this.

00:15:57.69
Bill
I wanted to be able to throw it back in her face. That was my, that was my motivation. And you think back now you're like, how, how pathetic was that? Right.

00:16:05.85
ian
Yeah, that's, but I know that that's close to my heart right there, man. You're speaking my language.

00:16:11.18
Bill
Yeah, and it's just, it is so it's so ridiculous. But um that that therapy, that's crazy. I mean, you know, crazy. It worked, obviously, that you went through that rehab. but um But that's ah that's interesting. I mean, that's ah that's a way that, yeah, I can only imagine now you get a whiff of some of that stuff.

00:16:27.10
Bill
um I don't know. I mean, think of anything. as was There was things as a kid that either I was, don't want to say force-fed, that we had all the time that You know i get a whiff up now on or alcohol. There's couple of different types of alcohol.

00:16:38.41
Bill
um Gin I got sick on really bad and straight Miller High Life.

00:16:40.62
ian
Yeah. Yeah.

00:16:43.26
Bill
Not High Life, not, you know, not genuine, genuine draft on anything, but Miller High Life beer. um Not that I've smelled it a lot lately, but every once in a while, you you get a whiff of it.

00:16:49.34
ian
yep

00:16:53.42
Bill
And I'm like, holy crap, you know, if you're in an area like that.

00:16:54.87
ian
yeah

00:16:56.27
Bill
Now, going back to two, when you mentioned, you know, going to bars and things like that, being a life of the party, um that was a very uncomfortable place for me. um I don't go to bars hardly ever, unless it's a family event.

00:17:05.42
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:17:07.48
Bill
For some reason, it's at a place like that. But Michael go to shows. He goes to concerts all the time. And they're at clubs and and, you know, nightclubs and things like that. He goes for the show and a lot of times by himself.

00:17:19.18
Bill
And then, you know, at a certain point. The band's done. He walks out you know before people get nuts. um I went to a Foo Fighters concert. He and I did, too, in Milwaukee a couple of years ago. But um the first real big concert I went to three years ago, four years ago, whatever it was.

00:17:35.15
Bill
And when you talk about remembering, I I love the Foo Fighters and they played for two and a half hours. We had a, me and the person I went in, in with, ah we each had a bottle of water and we stood in the back. It was like a, yeah like a amphitheater type of show. So we were like bunch of grass seats and we were up on top of the walkway.

00:17:53.64
Bill
I stood there the entire two and a half hours and just enjoyed the shit out of myself. um The entire time, constant flow of people going back and forth, bathroom, booze, bathroom, booze, seats, bathroom, booze.

00:18:05.47
Bill
And I'm like, I didn't have to move. That was a gift.

00:18:09.19
ian
Yep, for sure. And I've been to many, many concerts. ah Unfortunately, i was the guy. I was the one making sure everybody had booze. You needed more booze. I was the i was the pusher, and I couldn't even...

00:18:17.95
Bill
Right.

00:18:20.72
ian
I barely even remember the show because I was so worried about or standing in line getting booze for everybody else and myself. And i was like, I missed so many awesome experiences ah from that.

00:18:30.17
Bill
right

00:18:31.19
ian
And today I can do the same thing. I can go grab a couple bottles of water or soda water and lime and and have an absolute ball and people watch and watch the shit show happen. You can watch...

00:18:42.15
ian
These amazing couples come in, right? They come in all lovey-dovey. Everything's great. And you can watch the drinks start flowing and the irritability.

00:18:50.10
Bill
Right.

00:18:50.98
ian
And I know because I've been there and watch the irritability. And by the end of the concert, they're drunk. They're mad at each other. Maybe one of them's even left. And it's all because of booze.

00:19:01.89
Bill
Yeah. Yeah. There was a, there was a couple that, uh, when, when Mike and I went, cause we went to a Harley fest, uh, two years ago, maybe three now it's been, uh, it's been at least two years ago. Um, up in Milwaukee, then the Foo Fighters played one night, Green Day was the night before.

00:19:16.18
Bill
And then it was, it was the Harley fest thing too.

00:19:16.65
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:19:17.96
Bill
So i lots of bikers, but also all these people for seeing the Foo Fighters. So, I mean, there was like 45,000 people by the time that the show, you know, kicked off. um But also Joan Jett played, which is a Micah's been a huge fan.

00:19:29.67
Bill
I love Joan Jett, but she played earlier in the day.

00:19:31.06
ian
huh

00:19:32.49
Bill
So we got to see Joan Jett also on top of it. But um there was this couple once we and we didn't get real close for for the Foo Fighters. We got closer for Joan Jett. But there was this couple that were they were sitting on a blanket. Everyone's kind of making their kind of.

00:19:45.20
Bill
I don't know, camping out their spot type of thing. And we were just kind of standing the entire time and even before the concert started. But this couple was just kind of sitting down, whatever. And I think they got up for a little bit during the concert. But then it was like as the concert was going on, we looked back and you could see people out of corner of my eye. I saw people like walking. It was like in a walkway area, like a separation of the crowd, which is right behind us, a little bit of one.

00:20:07.49
Bill
And you could see people like stopping and then kind of going around. I looked and they both of them were, they were just laying on the ground, passed down on their blankets in the middle of, know, I'm not shitting you in the middle of 45 fucking thousand people.

00:20:13.24
ian
Wow. yeah yeah ah just

00:20:20.25
Bill
yeah

00:20:21.81
ian
That's insane.

00:20:22.91
Bill
Yeah, and I mean, you know, again, it doesn't matter whether' what what concert it is, but um I don't know. You know, it's just the same thing. I mean, I i saw i saw um Mike saw, he's seen probably hundreds, at well, he has seen hundreds and hundreds, but he says it's the same thing. You know, all the all the concerts that he saw while he was drinking versus now, he's probably seen, I don't know, hundreds of shows since he's been sober. I mean, he goes a lot.

00:20:45.66
ian
Yep.

00:20:45.73
Bill
He likes a small club. He doesn't like... He enjoyed the Foo Fighters. It was the first time that he saw him second for me. um Put on a great show, whatever, but he he doesn't like that big of a crowd, um which, I mean, it was like it it is what it is type of thing, but um ah he's more of a smaller club guy, but but same deal, man.

00:21:03.11
Bill
It's everything. You know, it's like you mentioned, you've got you've got three kids, right?

00:21:07.14
ian
yep

00:21:07.57
Bill
You know, so um we'll talk about that in a minute. But I mean, my both of my kids are adults. I've got a 24 year old, almost 25. I've got a 37 year old, almost 38. I've got a three and a half year old grandson now.

00:21:19.41
Bill
Just found out my daughter is pregnant. So I'm to have another grandchild um here in a little bit.

00:21:24.14
ian
Oh, so awesome.

00:21:25.81
Bill
um You know, so I mean, all these all these different things, you know, so um it just the things that we get to enjoy and and experience. Um, and I mean, again, out of all these things, I never would have, you know, redone my relationship with my daughter, you know, obviously recoup that relationship would have never met my son-in-law. I would have never met my grandson.

00:21:47.63
Bill
Um, all these different things. I mean, the, these gifts that we get from, you know, just doing a couple of simple things here and there and, you know, not, not getting loaded all the time. Right.

00:21:56.67
ian
Yeah, and being you know the the blessing is you're so present for them now you know and having your grandbabies.

00:22:00.99
Bill
Right.

00:22:02.51
ian
I got my first ah granddaughter ah eight and a half months, and it's ah it's a game changer.

00:22:09.16
Bill
Right. Yeah, it's it's huge. And I mean, this that little boy, I mean, he's he's three and a half years old now. And um I mean, my my son in law said to me, i don't know, it's probably it was six or eight months ago. I was up there and I babysat for him. And um my grandson's name was Oliver, but we we all call him Ollie.

00:22:25.95
Bill
And my son-in-law had said to me, and he's like, ah he goes, you know, he, he really loves you.

00:22:26.09
ian
Great.

00:22:30.35
Bill
I'm like, oh no, I know. And he's like, no, he really loves you. And I'm like, you know, I mean, the, the, I can't even tell you how good that made me feel. I know he does, but to have somebody else say, no, you really have something good there with him. You know?

00:22:44.58
ian
yeah

00:22:44.82
Bill
And it is, it's just, it it's, it's mind blowing. How old are your kids, by the way?

00:22:49.18
ian
ah My son will be turning 30 here in October. and That's who has a little girl, Harper.

00:22:52.43
Bill
Okay. Okay.

00:22:55.40
ian
And then he's an assistant golf pro at pretty exclusive club up here in Seattle.

00:23:00.28
Bill
Really

00:23:00.26
ian
And then a 28-year-old daughter who is a cop in Mount Lake Terrace.

00:23:05.16
Bill
nice.

00:23:05.46
ian
And then a 15-year-old going into high school this year.

00:23:08.60
Bill
Okay. Well, that's cool. So yeah, you get, you did the same thing. I mean, I've got, again, I've got the, well, two different marriages, but yeah, I've got the, you know, almost 38th and then 24 year old and you've got a little bit of a, little bit of a gap there too.

00:23:19.62
Bill
But so, I mean, clearly the, the older ones that, well, I guess let's say the older ones remember, remember you the way you used to be.

00:23:20.02
ian
Yeah.

00:23:26.66
Bill
I no doubt, you know, based on their ages, but um what about the younger one, the 15 year old? Does, does a 15 year old have that recollection or no? no

00:23:34.81
ian
A little. um And it's crazy. I had all three of my kids write ah what their experience was with their dad drinking. And it's in my book. And they're pretty, pretty tear jerking.

00:23:45.13
ian
um You know, my son to to this day still drinks a little, have some beers with the boys and, you know, occasional not not like he did when when I was obviously pushing booze in junior high school and in college.

00:24:00.46
ian
um My 28-year-old daughter does not drink to this day. um And I don't think my 15-year-old will either.

00:24:07.66
Bill
Right.

00:24:08.94
ian
And she... vaguely remember, you know, the loud music, the parties at two, um, you know, and she hears some of the stories from obviously the, the older kids, you know, oh my God. Yeah. Dad was, you know, my, my daughter would I had to text dad, uh, at one in the morning. Cause I'm trying to study for college and he's still playing music.

00:24:28.85
ian
You know, I hear him, you know, opening another bottle of wine.

00:24:32.56
Bill
right

00:24:32.71
ian
So, you know It's crazy that you know under the same roof, how drastically the two see it, three see it actually, is quite amazing.

00:24:44.05
ian
And my relationships with them have never been better.

00:24:44.20
Bill
right

00:24:47.66
ian
um Being so present with them, um doing what dad thinks, not being like, oh, I'll take you to movies. But then I'd be like, oh, I'm at a bar with clients. I'm going to miss that. I always had work as my excuse for my kids.

00:25:02.33
ian
um and which is horrible um and they know today if dad says something it's gonna happen and that one that makes me feel one i'm i'm a man of my word now um and they see the change that's happened in their dad of you know being sober being healthy being present um it's it's

00:25:05.30
Bill
right

00:25:27.62
ian
So refreshing and the relationships are great. And I got great relationships with my, my two ex-wives, uh, as well.

00:25:32.82
Bill
Nice.

00:25:34.40
ian
A lot of forgiveness. Um, you know, and that's that's a big thing getting sober is, is, you know, I always talk about, you got to forgive your younger self, um, and believe in your current self and create your future self. And I kind of live and breathe that, that you can't carry all that, that forward if you want to be better.

00:25:53.93
Bill
Right. Yeah. And I mean, my son was, well, my my daughter remembers, my daughter and I were estranged for 12 years. And then she came back into my life when I was two and a half years sober, I think.

00:26:06.11
Bill
You know, so I mean, we've had we've had a long run now. We've had a good, you know, 12, 12 plus years now, um you know, re rebuilding a relationship. And um it's it's strong and you know she forgave me and you know even to the even to the point where you know i i at times you know tried to say hey and even recently we went out we went on a family trip out to ohio and um she drove her and my grandson uh the three of us drove out there this was just last week and um i don't know it it got brought up and it was we were shooting the shit about whatever and

00:26:16.86
ian
Yeah.

00:26:35.58
Bill
um I thanked her again for for giving me that opportunity, you know, to to prove myself again, because that's what it is. I mean, i um I tried to reach out with her or to her relatively early in sobriety, and that didn't work. It it blew up in my face. It wasn't her fault.

00:26:49.98
Bill
But then she came back in when it was her time or when she was ready for it. And then I took it slow. Thankfully, I'd learned a couple of things at that point. Um, you know, and, and she gave me that opportunity and my relationship with her is really strong.

00:27:00.66
ian
You

00:27:04.32
Bill
And the funny part was my, my son, when I first got sober, he was nine, you know, and he's 20, almost 25 now. um but, um, I, I would sit down with him and I would talk to him. I remember driving with him. Like, is there anything? Cause basically what I was doing, what I was trying to, to pull out anything that I did wrong where I could make my amends to him, you know?

00:27:24.32
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:27:24.44
Bill
And he was just he was young, you know, in the the last basically the last four years that I drank. um i mean, we went through a whole custody battle, the whole whole thing. My drinking was part of the divorce.

00:27:35.31
Bill
I wasn't supposed to drink around him anyhow. I did just not openly, you know. So from the time that he was like five or six until I got sober, he never saw me drink, you know.

00:27:47.26
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:27:47.30
Bill
um So it wasn't physical like in front of him, even though I was was drinking. But um it was just like I over time, you know, he's brought up a couple of things and, you know, say he will remember things here or there. He remembers the fights that, you know, me and his mom used to have.

00:28:01.57
Bill
But, you know, the the thing of it is and again, the the thing that you said about. and Mike and I talk about this all the time. Mike jokes about it. You know, when did he become the responsible one?

00:28:10.57
ian
Oh, yeah.

00:28:10.61
Bill
And, you know, in in his life, you know, where people look to him and count on him and he's got to be there and they expect it.

00:28:11.85
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:28:14.56
ian
ah yeah

00:28:16.93
Bill
You know, it's a it's a it's one of those wonderful burdens. You know, um people expect both of us to be where we're going to be, you know, all the time.

00:28:23.93
ian
Right.

00:28:24.61
Bill
That's why i was joking to begin with when we started off here, because we joked about it. This this has become part of our lives and part of our recovery.

00:28:28.66
ian
Right.

00:28:31.94
Bill
Um, and really, unless there's, this is a commitment that we made now, granted work and life gets in the way. And that's what happened with Mike tonight. There's no other reason in the world. We wouldn't, neither one of us would just be like, eh, we don't feel like it.

00:28:44.60
ian
right

00:28:44.69
Bill
Um, last week we recorded on a Wednesday cause we're going to be out of town next week. We're recording on a Thursday, the week after that on Wednesday, cause Mike's going to be out of town. We work around our schedules to make sure that we get this episode out.

00:28:56.02
Bill
It's a commitment to us, but also the people who listen to us. Um, you know, but, um, the biggest thing there is that it's it is it's a huge gift my my kids to this day they know regardless of what time of day or night the worst thing is going to happen they're going to wake me up and there's nothing wrong with that if they need something i could be there if i had had to pick up my son a couple of times when he was younger he drinks my daughter drinks Not problematically.

00:29:21.07
Bill
um But that was the other thing I was grateful for is that i neither one, neither Mike or I have, you know, ah we're not anti-alcohol. People do what they do, you know, and um there's people that can, you know, out there, like as Mike always says, you know, have a few pops and get up in the morning and, you know, actually take care of their kids and have a decent life.

00:29:28.83
ian
Right.

00:29:37.34
Bill
We don't do that. So we don't do that.

00:29:39.73
ian
Right.

00:29:40.46
Bill
Um, but my, both of my kids can, they don't feel, they don't have to hide it around me. They talk to me. We've all, all my ex-wife and I have always been open, you know, so there's that communication. Even they're not afraid to talk about alcohol with me, which I think is, is huge, you know?

00:29:54.62
ian
Yeah, that's a great, honest, open relationship. And obviously you make them feel so comfortable that they can do that. And that's that's what that's what it's about.

00:30:02.82
Bill
Right. Right. Well, and you know what? I mean, all of us, anyone that's sober, I think always says the same thing. You know, we we never hope for a family member or a friend you know, I mean, gosh forbid our our kids, you know, to have a problem. But on the flip side of that, if any one of those individuals in our lives have a problem, hopefully, you know, we're living an example where they at least they know where to turn, even if it's not us right away.

00:30:26.66
Bill
You know, hopefully we've done the right things. We're like, OK, number one, there's there's light at the end of the tunnel. We've heard some things we can do. um We know where to go for help if we need it. That's comforting, you know?

00:30:36.37
ian
Yeah, and I'm a big believer that you know kids catch more than we teach, right?

00:30:42.10
Bill
Yes. Right.

00:30:44.31
ian
um And i you know my son, i taught him how to be the life of the party, and booze was the circle of it. like i taught I taught my family that, and now I'm unteaching them that, and that life can be better without...

00:30:58.05
Bill
Right.

00:31:00.82
ian
you know, booze or whatever addictive substance you have out there. And you can be so much more present in the relationships, like you said, with, with your kids is like second to none.

00:31:11.30
ian
Like I know a lot of people out there wish they had those relationships, but there's things in the way that get them there. And it's probably some sort of, of substance or alcohol.

00:31:22.01
Bill
Right. So, um I mean, and I guess, correct me if I'm wrong. Did you ever use any sort of a 12 step program community? And I don't want to say, well, I guess community program. um Did you do any of that from a sobriety standpoint? And I don't care one way the other. It's all of these things intrigue me. That's the one thing. And I guess I'll step aside on that for a minute.

00:31:40.29
Bill
When we first started doing this, um we weren't closed minded. We just didn't know. Um, I didn't know, I'd never heard of, uh, you know, let the term, so many people use the term alcohol free. Yes, I get it, but it was, wasn't a regular term in my life.

00:31:53.12
Bill
I'd never heard a gray area drinking, never heard of sober curious. I never heard of all these other ways that people get and stay sober. Again, not that I had anything against, um, any other way, but AA, it's just, that's the way we did it.

00:32:05.76
Bill
So we've learned a lot of things over the timeframe. So did you do any sort of structured, and I don't even know if that's the right way to put it, but you know what I mean, any type of recovery thing like that?

00:32:13.88
ian
No, I did my 10-day rehab. um I've never been to an AA. I've never been to um any kind of community um around substance abuse.

00:32:26.39
ian
I kind of hit my 10-day rehab and had a really good circle around me and just kind of stayed focused on on my path. um

00:32:36.07
Bill
o I think, I don't know if you can, can you still hear me?

00:32:36.57
ian
But the community is, I believe, so important.

00:32:38.15
Bill
I lost you.

00:32:39.57
ian
whether it's you know i I have a great ride-or-die circle that support me, and you know nothing's off the the table. We can talk about anything, cry about anything, laugh about anything.

00:32:46.66
Bill
If you are still there, if you can still hear me, I, oh, there you are.

00:32:48.93
ian
But people that struggle with...

00:32:51.61
Bill
Are you back?

00:32:52.72
ian
Yep, sorry about that.

00:32:53.75
Bill
No, that's okay.

00:32:53.79
ian
I lose you.

00:32:55.05
Bill
Yeah. I, yeah yeah. I saw your, your thing went yellow there for a minute. That's okay. You know, here, here's a fun part too. And you may not know that, but everyone who listens to us does, we don't edit anything.

00:33:04.43
ian
and Awesome.

00:33:05.32
Bill
So, you know, people will hear that if it was something weird, we had a thing last week, which I probably should have edited that out. We had a technical issue, but um I don't know. It's just, we feel that it's ah two things. It saves me time, you know, cause I'm the one that puts together the episode.

00:33:17.32
ian
For sure.

00:33:18.58
Bill
um But on top of that, um Mike and I made a commitment at the at the time we started this to just, um we're going to say stuff. We ever say you anything that we really shouldn't have, which we know, obviously, not to do things like that.

00:33:29.86
Bill
um We would cut something out, but we'd rather just have everything be, you know, it's it's a conversation. so So I'm sorry about that.

00:33:35.47
ian
Right?

00:33:36.17
Bill
So you didn't, no no AA, no community meetings, that sort of thing.

00:33:39.54
ian
Nope, none none of that.

00:33:39.67
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:33:40.38
ian
I didn't attend any of those. I know they're super important. I got a lot of ah friends that I know that are in it. And that my my oldest brother that lives up in Canada in his 60s, 11 years sober, he goes to them almost daily, if not every other day.

00:33:55.77
Bill
Right. Right.

00:33:57.07
ian
ah And he loves that community. And it's very helpful and very supportive for him. and And I think if you That community is so important, whatever it is, you know, whether it's 12 step, whether it's some sort of, you know, recovery program ah where you have that circle.

00:34:14.26
ian
I believe it's so important to have that network ah and and keeps people on on track and they they become an extension of your family.

00:34:17.13
Bill
right

00:34:22.65
Bill
Well, and you just said yeah in the beginning of this, when you started talking about this whole thing, when you first got, when you first, you know, got out of the rehab and stuff like that, you said that you had, you said you had such a good circle right there, even though that's not a sober community, you had community, you know?

00:34:37.44
Bill
And I mean, I think that um the idea, and these are one of the things that once again,

00:34:37.41
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:34:42.32
Bill
it wasn't that either Mike or I were AA is the only way I just didn't know about these other things. And quite honestly, back, up you know, and it's, I mean, 15 years is a long time in a sense, but it really isn't, you know, and, you know, so just 15 years ago, there weren't the opportunities that there are now, you know, I mean, the pandemic, if nothing else, it, I, I work remotely. So it it gave me, you know, the opportunity to have all these rev remote jobs out there. So that's wonderful. Yeah.

00:35:08.53
Bill
And then the other thing, too, is the recovery community had to go online, you know, completely online. You know, so now it doesn't matter what you do. You can find a community based recovery based bunch of sober people or a group or an AA meeting if you want or an NA meeting or CA or whatever you want to do.

00:35:28.13
Bill
Um, online, anytime of the day or night, anywhere, you know, which is, which is so great, you know, but the, the thing of it is, and I, I, I think we're on the same page with this is it one way or the other, even if you don't do, like you said, you know, not doing a 12 step type of thing, you still need, you need people to help you and in life and recovery.

00:35:31.75
ian
Mm-hmm. Anywhere.

00:35:46.76
Bill
Correct.

00:35:47.60
ian
A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And like you said, it's so easy. And, you know, you see all these sober coaches. um And again, it's finding the right community that one, you feel comfortable with and you click with those people and you'll you'll end up having those relationships or ah some sort of relationship, you know, with those people for life.

00:36:06.09
Bill
Right.

00:36:06.57
ian
ah One, because you you you become naked with them. like It's all out there, right? And you're that comfortable to to to let it all out.

00:36:12.42
Bill
right

00:36:15.37
ian
And ah that's so important to to get that out of your system and have somebody that you're super comfortable or a group that you're very comfortable sharing your life and being absolutely truthful and naked about it. And it's hard.

00:36:31.23
ian
Um, you know, I talk about, you know, oh, it wasn't hard quitting drinking. It was hard drinking. Um, so choose your hard, you know, it's, hard it's hard not to drink for sure, but it's also hard to drink because the devastation that gets created, uh, and it takes you a little bit or a rock bottom or something catastrophic to happen to you to go, oh shit, now I need to do something.

00:36:38.30
Bill
Right. Right.

00:36:55.51
Bill
right

00:36:55.58
ian
Um, so choose your hard. Yeah. It's hard being sober, uh, but it's also hard being ah drunk.

00:37:01.31
Bill
Right. Yeah. And it's ah the effort. Mike, Mike always said, Mike said it to me. And I and and again, I talked about this before, but ah we we both got sober in Cleveland. Mike still lives in Cleveland. and I moved back to Wisconsin, which is where I'd lived for years after about three years and a few months.

00:37:15.70
Bill
And I was driving up to. see my son. I was back in the area where I used to live and driving up to see my son and grab him for dinner and drove by all these different liquor stores that I used to go to. And it was kind of blowing my mind. I'm like, oh my God, all these places, you know?

00:37:29.23
Bill
And I remember texting him after I had stopped and I'm just like, I'm like, I just went by, i don't know, like nine liquor stores or nine places where I used to buy liquor. He texted me back and he just said, enjoy the freedom.

00:37:41.14
Bill
And, you know, it's it's true because here's the thing. the The reason there were so many liquor stores is because, you know, we're all we all think we're fooling people, you know, that we're going to go to all these different places.

00:37:49.35
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:37:51.15
Bill
They're not going to remember me. I mean, I walk into a Domino's like three times in a row because we get pizza every night or every Friday night. So if I walk into the same, you know, Domino's probably no more than four times, they recognize me, you know, so I'm going to, I'm going to a liquor store, you know, once every three days and I'm thinking people aren't going to recognize me.

00:38:10.37
Bill
Right. It's, it's delusional, you know, it's just ridiculously delusional.

00:38:11.09
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:38:14.94
Bill
Um, so it just, uh, it's just crazy. Um, But I don't know. I mean, like, like you said, it's ah choose, you know, choose the difficulty of life or choose your heart. Like you said, I mean, it's, it's a, it's a great way to put it.

00:38:26.36
Bill
I mean, that this is, nobody said this thing that we do is going to be um easy, but it is worth it. It's a cliche, but it's worth it.

00:38:34.33
ian
i got ah i had a ah phone call with ah one of my son's friends who is very sober curious, wants to quit. And the problem is his circle.

00:38:45.16
Bill
Right.

00:38:45.21
ian
His circle are pot smokers, drinkers, video gamers, and they do it every night.

00:38:45.26
Bill
Right.

00:38:49.49
ian
They get up, go to their jobs, rinse and repeat. And he goes, what do I need to do? And I go, it's going to be really tough, but you need to find a new circle.

00:38:57.59
Bill
Right.

00:38:57.66
ian
Your circle is your problem. And it absolutely is 100% his problem. And if you look at like we talk about community, what yeah I used to go to this local bar and hey, oh Ian's back, right?

00:39:09.24
Bill
Right.

00:39:09.21
ian
it was a It's just a different community.

00:39:12.69
Bill
right

00:39:12.72
ian
Right. I mean, going to, if you have a local bar and you go there every day for a couple of pops after work or whatever the case is, or you're fighting with mama, I don't care what your reason is. I'm sure you have a good one, but it's your place of comfort.

00:39:24.74
ian
Right. And it just happens to serve you booze and you know, what it, it numbs you. It's no different than the community like you're creating, which is phenomenal. People have a community to go to. That's just not, you know, pushing booze on you.

00:39:37.25
Bill
Right. Yeah, it it is.

00:39:38.79
ian
So.

00:39:39.75
Bill
It's it's amazing. In a a grocery store I used to go to when I lived in Wisconsin, um there was a, ah and I didn't realize until this this person in the meat department said something to me one time.

00:39:51.34
Bill
um i And it was just so funny because what what I used to do was every Saturday, um i i go to pick up my son, you know, before he got his license or once he started driving, he'd meet me there. But a lot of times I pick him up, you know, meet him for lunch.

00:40:04.60
Bill
We we'd have lunch, which took half hour, 45 minutes. You know, he's 15, 16 year old kid. He's got more important things to do than just hang with me. And, you know, so maybe it was, you know, one o'clock by the time we got done, i sometimes have to go to Walmart to get some, you know, bathroom items. I go to Aldi cause that's my other thing.

00:40:22.59
Bill
And the last stop was this local grocery store where I'd get the rest of my grocery items. Plus, you know, the meat I would get, say a decent meat department and, know, Apparently I ended up there at the same time every weekend, every Saturday, which I didn't know.

00:40:36.02
Bill
But this, the same person in the meat department, I walked up and she, she's like, oh, it must be, must be around two o'clock.

00:40:36.62
ian
and

00:40:41.57
Bill
And I looked at my phone and it was like, it was like two Oh three or something like that. And, and I said, I said, well, yeah, i said, you know, kind of like, and, and she said, and she goes, you're here. She goes, you're here every, every weekend at two o'clock or, or roughly within 10 to 15 minutes of that. I'm like, really?

00:40:58.97
Bill
And she said, yeah, because she goes, I, you know I start usually a little bit before one thirty, whatever. And she said, you know, I usually get here and I get my stuff settled. And then time I'm walking out on the floor, you're here. And I never realized, I mean, I am and I know there's certain things I do.

00:41:13.20
Bill
I read recovery books in the morning. So does Mike. um I do a certain set of prayers in the morning and Mike does his thing. We both have this routine every day. And I know. I know for a fact, if somebody said to me, I get up at like 5 a.m. on a weekday.

00:41:26.09
Bill
If somebody says, what are you doing at 545 every morning? um Within five-minute window, I know what I'm doing. You know, all every all day, every day.

00:41:33.19
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:41:34.62
Bill
And the same thing, apparently, with my grocery shopping.

00:41:36.73
ian
and because ah You got quite a routine going.

00:41:38.02
Bill
You know, Yeah, and it's but it's, you know what, there's I like that because that's the same thing. you know people can People can count on us.

00:41:46.04
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:41:46.16
Bill
But you made a good point, too. it's the um As human beings, I think we all we all love that. I mean, Mike always talks about being a loner and isolator. I mean, I am, too, to a certain extent. um you know But I'm actually, you know, sometimes more as I'm getting older, I enjoy my alone time and there's nothing wrong with the alone time, but I also love being around people.

00:42:02.65
ian
Right.

00:42:05.09
Bill
That's one of these things. This gives me, um I mean, Mike and I get together. That was ah the point of us doing this. We're going get together and just kind of have a discussion at a mini meeting every Friday. That was a point of us doing this podcast.

00:42:16.78
Bill
And then we're like, ah, people listen fine if they don't fuck them, you know, that sort of thing.

00:42:20.50
ian
right

00:42:20.59
Bill
Um, you know, and that's how we built, you know, this whole, this whole thing, which, you know, we're still a small podcast, small number of people ish, you know, that listened to us, but it, but it's part of our routine. But the point is, is that, you know, even though both of us like our alone time, like you just said, rather than, you know, if everyone walks into bar, Hey, Ian's here. Hey, Bill's here.

00:42:38.54
Bill
You can get the same thing when you walk in, you know, by your family, when you walk into a, but let's say ah a structured 12 step meeting, When I walk into a Domino's pizza, they hand me my pizza now. I don't even give my name anymore. You know, it's a little things like that. That's all of this is the, you know, they're healthy pieces of, you know, good, solid community we've built, you know?

00:42:56.39
ian
Yep, thousand percent. Thousand percent.

00:42:58.97
Bill
which is, yeah, which is kind of fun and amazing. So, um and I guess, so you know, take a look at a time. Why don't we do this? I know that obviously I don't want to interrupt the, you know, like the the wrapping up of your story type of thing, but obviously I know we want to talk about your book.

00:43:11.90
Bill
um But if, why don't we take a quick break right now, get that out of the way if you don't mind.

00:43:16.44
ian
I'd love it. Appreciate it.

00:43:17.77
Bill
All right. So this is, this is one of the other things that Mike always does, but I'll try to get this right. What he says. And now we'll be back after a word from our sponsors.

00:43:35.80
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. <unk> see, Ian? Painless. Painful.

00:43:41.16
ian
Painless. Easy.

00:43:41.80
Bill
Ha ha ha. yeah And you know what? That's the other thing. We're so we're so transparent about this stuff that we we told people all the time. The only reason we do that, literally, we have a we have a website promo that we put in there. And and again, it makes my life easier. I could just I get a place that I can cut the episode. of Just again, it's a lot easier. So um what else? And I didn't want, like I said, I didn't want to interrupt your story, but I know you mentioned the book a couple of times. I know you want to talk about that. But um so, I mean, as as you're going through and you said you're coming coming up on eight years sober.

00:44:11.63
ian
Yep, eight years in October.

00:44:13.52
Bill
Okay. So, in and I don't know if this is a ah legitimate question, but it's always interesting to me. So at, ah let's call it almost, almost eight years, you know, obviously coming up, call seven and a half, whatever you want to call it.

00:44:25.14
Bill
During that timeframe, have you noticed um the, um'm I'm guessing you've noticed your progression, but were there areas where that you felt it was harder, easier? Have you noticed, you know, big ebbs and flows or how, what's your experience been with that?

00:44:40.29
ian
i ah There's a great book, um it's called ah Atomic Habits, and it's stacking little baby routines. um

00:44:48.95
Bill
Right.

00:44:49.73
ian
It resonated with me when you said you're up at 5 and yeah you know if you if you called me at 5.30, you would know out exactly what I'm doing. I'm up early. um I do my prayers, I get outside, i do a couple minutes of breath work, do some stretching, I get my body ready.

00:45:04.54
ian
um I journal. I never thought I'd journal. I thought 85-year-old ladies journaled.

00:45:09.94
Bill
right

00:45:09.91
ian
um So I journal. It could be a sentence, it could be a page. It's just kind of kind of a lot of gratitude and like my goals ah and end with gratitude. And I kind of set my tone for my day. Then I'm off to the gym.

00:45:24.79
ian
good little workout, ah steam room, cold plunge, shower, boom, I'm ready for the day. um So having a routine, I noticed helped me tremendously because it's very consistent um and it's just it's it's normal.

00:45:41.02
ian
um Now, ah everybody's like, well, that sounds like a lot. Well, let me tell you, that didn't happen overnight. That happened over a year or two, adding

00:45:47.06
Bill
Right.

00:45:50.91
ian
journaling, adding breath work, adding, you know, right when I wake up of like, you know, gratitude is like the best thing you can start your day with. Absolutely. Everybody should start their day and be like, Oh my god I don't care what it is. Oh my God. I'm a, I get another day. I'm alive. Oh my gosh.

00:46:04.78
ian
Um, I get to go smell, uh, fresh brewed coffee, like the, get down to the smallest things. I got a life coach that really helps me stay grounded on enjoy the smallest things, go outside and just listen. What do you hear? The leaves blowing, the birds chirping, um, and just appreciate, ah life itself.

00:46:23.73
ian
Cause it's so precious. We don't, we, we take it for granted and we take our bodies for granted of like, Oh man, back in my drinking days of like, it would be great to go get McDonald's or Dick's burgers or In-N-Out or a pizza at two in the morning ah and have all these wasted calories and carbs that I, you know, oh it's going to make me feel better in the morning. and So health and nutrition has been ah a big thing for me ah of eating better. I lost 70 pounds. I feel like a million bucks. I'm setting the example for my family. I'm setting the tone for my family. I'm the one that is breaking the chain of,

00:46:56.09
ian
social alcoholic in my family. um And I'm making that impact. I'm making that impact on my older brothers. I'm making that impact with my kids. But I had to stack all those little baby things. ah You know, be like, oh, you cold plunged for three minutes. Yeah, it took me a year to get to three minutes because it's cold as fuck.

00:47:14.13
ian
For the first first time doing it, I'm maybe five seconds in a cold shower being like, this is nuts.

00:47:19.77
Bill
yeah

00:47:20.16
ian
And then I would move it the next week to 15 seconds. And just, you know, cold is such a mindset. um And now it's like, it's so helpful for me. And, you know, they people say there's all these studies of all these health benefits. I believe that.

00:47:35.60
ian
ah But for me, man, it shocks your system. And the energy level that I get out of that and the clarity I get out of it is phenomenal. But if somebody said, hey, do all these things, ah they'll help you.

00:47:48.04
ian
The problem is there are so many things that people quit. I i relate it to, you know, January is going roll around, right? Everybody's going to get healthy. Everybody's going to go to the gym in January and be like, they have this goal of like, I'm going to lose 30 pounds, 20 pounds, 50 pounds, whatever your number is.

00:47:58.30
Bill
Right.

00:48:04.80
ian
Why don't you just go, I'm going to lose one pound this week or one pound in two weeks and stack those little baby wins. Because the problem is when you hop on that scale and you're like have 30 in your head, you're constantly disappointing yourself.

00:48:20.00
ian
And then we just go back to our comfort zone.

00:48:22.83
Bill
right

00:48:22.98
ian
So when you have those little goals, set them small. Hey, I wanna lose X amount of pounds. Well, get it to like, what are you gonna, I'm gonna lose a half a pound this week.

00:48:34.54
ian
And then you stack those baby wins, man. And you start stacking those baby wins, you get that momentum, you get that energy, and it's just a different mindset for your body. So for me, it was just stacking all those little things. And those routines are are so important to me. Like if I miss something ah journaling, I know it. It's like, man, I knew I was missing something this morning for whatever reason. And I do not look at my phone for the first 30 minutes of the day.

00:49:00.30
Bill
Right.

00:49:00.35
ian
You know, our our phones are almost so people don't realize how addictive our our goofy phones are.

00:49:00.43
Bill
Right.

00:49:05.74
ian
Uh, if you look at your phone first thing in the morning, man, what do you you have to react? Whether it be emails or social media, or, you know, the comparison comes in when you're scrolling through social media, like, Oh, I wish I had that car or that house. Oh, look who's so-and-so is on vacation again, man. You're just starting your day off negative.

00:49:21.75
ian
So get your shit right before you tackle any task you have.

00:49:22.02
Bill
right

00:49:27.29
ian
And it's, it's so helpful for me. And I talk a little bit about that in my, my book, because people are like, well, well, what do you do? And it's like, You know, I can help. ah There's steps in there, but do them one at a time.

00:49:39.33
ian
You know, do baby steps for yourself and just stack little wins are are so important to to get past that hump um of whatever you're trying to achieve. You know, financial relationship with your kids. You know, it's like I tell people, be like, get up in the morning and text two people they haven't talked to in a while.

00:49:57.95
ian
Hey, good morning. Thinking of you or your kids. Hey, I love you. I miss you. Whatever the thing is, do something that's uncomfortable for change to happen. You have to get uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable stopping drinking, but you know, you've been doing it long enough. I've been doing it. It becomes more and more comfortable the more we go on.

00:50:17.64
ian
And it's super uncomfortable. That's like telling my son he's got to get out of his circle. It is going to be so uncomfortable. for that change to happen, but it becomes comfortable once you make that change.

00:50:30.06
Bill
Right. Yeah. And you know, when Mike and I, went when we met in again in Cleveland, when we got sober and we were both at a ah sober living facility, not a side of rehab, they literally what's it's sober living facility and what they did introduce us. That's one of the goals, obviously put us in group, um you know, groups we have throughout the day and then obviously introduce us that that area and there is ah all alcoholics and I just, which is cool.

00:50:54.65
Bill
So we, you know, got introduced to Alcoholics Anonymous, Golden Beatings, blah, blah, blah.

00:50:54.62
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:50:57.89
Bill
But um we did that. We did a meditation every morning. So there's the there's a Hazelden book called 24 Hours a Day, which um Mike and I both started reading in the Keating Center.

00:51:08.18
Bill
So I started it when I was seven days sober and Mike started it probably around that same time.

00:51:11.62
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:51:14.81
Bill
when he got in there and you talk about, you know, routine, I've never missed it, you know, in 15 and 15 years and a few months, um never miss reading that book. And then we've done the same thing.

00:51:25.31
Bill
We've added both of us read God grant me. It's another Hazelden book. Both of us read right now.

00:51:29.50
ian
he

00:51:30.27
Bill
Keep it simple. Another Hazelden book. ah Mike rotates out his third. I read a fourth book right now. It's touchstones. But so I read four in the morning. And then again, like you said, you know, do a little set of prayers, this and that.

00:51:43.19
Bill
I don't, um, I don't do the gym. Uh, Mike doesn't do the gym. What I started doing like a year and a half ago was hiking. When you talked about getting outside and listening and breathing the air and, you know, kind of take it in, you know, that whole thing.

00:51:49.81
ian
yeah.

00:51:55.64
Bill
Um, I, my son makes fun of me and ah like, uh, a sunset, a sunrise, the moon, you know, just stopping and taking, looking like, where has that been the entire time, you know?

00:52:03.17
ian
he

00:52:08.61
Bill
And when, when I'm hiking now and I, from the start, I don't listen, i don't bring AirPods or earbuds or whatever with me.

00:52:08.60
ian
yeah

00:52:15.40
Bill
I'll bring headphones. I don't listen to anything. I don't do anything. um I mean, the only reason my phone comes out of my pocket while I'm hiking is to look at the AllTrails app or to take a picture, you know? So it's, there, there's so many things to, you know, to really just, I don't know, spark my senses while I'm out there.

00:52:32.99
Bill
Again, sight sounds, you know, just everything that's going on, these cameras, these things, just this beauty. And it's, it is, it's, it's therapeutic. And I go meditative because neither one of us are like sit down and meditate type of people, but um he drives truck for a living.

00:52:45.76
ian
right

00:52:48.23
Bill
So there's a lot of times he'll turn everything off and he just drives and just listens to nothing.

00:52:53.26
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:52:53.94
Bill
You know, I do the same thing with driving.

00:52:54.69
ian
Yeah.

00:52:55.84
Bill
I do the same thing there. just, it is, it's a matter of, like you said, life is short, really appreciating. We always talk about moments, good and bad. We don't believe in bad days. We believe in bad moments.

00:53:07.29
Bill
You know, whatever the day brings, you may have had, you know, I don't know, 24 hours or 23 hours and 30 minutes of bad moments combined. But you had a half hour in there. You got to find the good, you know, in whatever it is, which is,

00:53:17.79
ian
For sure. thousand percent.

00:53:20.02
Bill
Oh, just everything was, everything was grim. Everything sucked in my eyes, you know, before, before I got sober, I didn't know, I didn't know anything, you know, about anything.

00:53:23.71
ian
you

00:53:29.56
Bill
And I got, I got sober at, at 41 and Mike was, Mike was 43 when he got sober, you know, we were around the same age and it just, it's crazy to me how much I didn't know, you know?

00:53:40.18
ian
Yeah, it's, you know, and again, it's like you said, with, you know, people cut you off in traffic or whatever the case may be, man, that ruins some people's day. And it's just a, it's just a moment. Let it go. Because one, I always look at is like, you don't, what's going on in their life? Did they accidentally run over their cat when they, when they left the house? Like, you don't know what's going on in other people's lives. Right.

00:54:02.58
ian
So go try to make a positive impact on them. Hold the door for somebody. Smile at somebody. It's the kindest, smallest things that you can do that can completely turn somebody's day around. Like hold the door for somebody.

00:54:15.17
ian
um Say good morning. Say good afternoon.

00:54:16.82
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:54:17.75
ian
Pay it forward. Buy a cup of coffee for somebody. Go spend two bucks and make somebody's week, right? it's go Go do good things and good things come back to you.

00:54:26.98
Bill
Right. Yeah. Mike, Mike always ends the, ends the podcast. He goes, go out there and do something nice for somebody this week and don't tell anyone you did it.

00:54:33.93
ian
That's right.

00:54:33.97
Bill
You know, and that's something that we were told, but you know, he does this little ending at the end, which I'm not going to, I'm not going to try to try to repeat everything. He's getting these certain part of it is, is we had a good friend of ours. Her name is breeze. She's ah um a musician and also does just kind of got her own little recording thing going on, like recording company.

00:54:54.08
Bill
um now, but she lives in Nashville, but she did this whole mix um for us when we had her, we had her on and a friend of hers got year or two years ago now. So it's just kind of like the, the end of our episode after we sign off, it goes into this thing where um she did that for us She did this whole production for us. It's pretty cool.

00:55:11.45
Bill
um But yeah, it is. It's all about it. It amazes. you You mentioned, you know, like holding a door for somebody every once in a while. And I don't think about it these days, but you hold the door and then somebody looks at you and they're like, like, thank you so much.

00:55:23.41
Bill
You know, and it's some people are just like, hey, appreciate it. Thank you. That sort of thing.

00:55:27.35
ian
Mm-hmm.

00:55:27.46
Bill
But then other people look because and then you realize that not everyone does that. Not everyone is just um doing a simple thing like that. and It costs us nothing. That's number one.

00:55:37.88
Bill
It takes zero time for the most part. You know, it doesn't cost anything to be kind. It doesn't take much time. You know, so how hard is it to just smile at somebody? Be nice to somebody.

00:55:49.79
Bill
Don't treat the, you know, the individual that is at the gas station, you know, you know, the the cashier at the gas station or the server at your at your lunch, don't treat the person like like some sort of some sort of an asshole or don't be an asshole to them.

00:56:03.23
Bill
You know, i mean, everyone else is they're dealing with dicks all day. you know, they don't I don't need to do that to somebody also. Yeah.

00:56:08.24
ian
Right, you you can be the one that sets the tone and makes it different for him

00:56:12.74
Bill
Yeah. And literally literally people look at you, we used you see it too. They're, they're amazed, you know, when people, and I am too, sometimes I'm, I'm more amazed at getting really, really good service than I am of getting mediocre. Mediocre is what I expect.

00:56:25.80
Bill
I don't expect much one way or the other, but when you get really good service or get somebody that does that back to you, it's just kind of like, man, that was, thank you.

00:56:33.06
ian
Right, yeah, you're like, oh my gosh, I appreciate that.

00:56:34.58
Bill
You know, so it does, yeah It goes both ways. So, um and I know you, you've touched a little bit on your book.

00:56:39.45
ian
still

00:56:42.10
Bill
So, I mean, we've talked about, and you know, you mentioned book, book, book. So tell everyone again, that and I'm going to have, bye by the time everyone's listening to this, I'm going to link to your book. um Is it, would you want me to have a link it to, it's on Amazon would be the main link, correct?

00:56:54.46
ian
Yep. Yep, Amazon's the best place to get it.

00:56:56.90
Bill
Okay. Okay. And obviously it's by the time somebody's listening, it's going to be done, but I just figured, hell, I'll ask you while I'm here. So I'll have link to your book and I believe I've got a link to your website. So I'll put both of those in the, in the description, but um so tell people the name of your book. And um again, whatever you want to talk about with your book, we always tell people jokingly, you know, this is, this is your time to whore out your stuff. So feel free.

00:57:19.09
ian
Yeah. ah The name of the book is Wild Ride to Sobriety ah by me, Ian Fee. Obviously, it's on Amazon. And the whole reason I wrote the book, it started about 17 months ago,

00:57:30.34
ian
is I was silently making an impact on people. um And three guys, ah to two other guys I work with, ah we're sitting at a restaurant bar, um all three of us sober, about two and a half years ago now. And right next to us is another group of guys, and they're ordering their martinis and couple shots. And this is 1230, one o'clock in Irvine. And be like, oh, gosh, that used to be us. And we were just sharing some of our stories.

00:57:59.49
ian
And one of the guys is like, man, we should write a book and get our story out there. And one of the other guys is like, hey, I got a ghostwriter that I know in Arizona. ah So I kind of took that and ran with it.

00:58:10.59
ian
And ah we started this book together. ah it ended up me just finishing it for a couple of other personal reasons for those guys ah solely to make an impact on if I could help somebody. And I swear it's my calling.

00:58:24.57
ian
If I can go make or help somebody be a better dad be a better mom, be a better son, be a better brother, be a better business owner, just be a be a better person and share my story of my naked truth drunken debauchery and booze being my superpower and the dysfunctional

00:58:36.85
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:58:45.78
ian
Devastation I had in two failed marriages, made it through with three kids, and came out on the other end better, healthier, ah humbler, kinder person.

00:58:58.28
ian
If somebody reads the book, and it's super easy, you can read it in an hour. I put pictures in there to kind of bring the stories together. It's not chapter-driven. ah i got I have my kids write pretty emotional ah letters that are in there.

00:59:11.06
ian
and it's And then a little bit of my routines and some books I did ah that I really resonated with. The Four Agreements is kind of what we studied ah in rehab for 10 days.

00:59:22.77
ian
And it's really, you know, to do these podcasts and what you guys are doing, if you can and create that community to make an impact on somebody that one thing resonated with them to change. I had somebody reach out on on my social media and this, I've never met this guy in in Texas.

00:59:40.53
ian
And i sent him my book. A month later, he he pings me and says, hey man, your book really resonated with me. I'm going into a 24-day rehab in Texas because I'm ready. I'm ready to be be a better dad.

00:59:50.43
Bill
Nice.

00:59:52.19
ian
And that that there warms my heart and makes me feel like, oh my God, I'm making an impact on somebody I barely know because of my social media and I mailed him a book, nice little card. Hey man, you got it.

01:00:04.51
ian
ah Be better every day, ah one day at a time. And that the something in the book, I haven't asked him yet what resonated with them. ah But he texts me he as I came, I'm checking in and I appreciate it.

01:00:15.18
ian
And that's what it's about. And like what you guys are doing, if you can go make an impact on somebody and help them battle their addiction or help them through their relationships because booze was the problem.

01:00:28.58
ian
ah Sometimes they don't even know that booze is the problem. If you eliminate booze in your relationship, watch your relationship get better with your kids, your work, your job. Everything gets better. Your relationship with your dog gets better.

01:00:40.92
ian
um

01:00:41.59
Bill
ah

01:00:41.93
ian
it's It's the smallest things that... make an impact on people and you just don't know what story or or a comment or quote that you know comes up on this podcast that just really resonates with somebody and be like it hit them it hit them hard to to make that change and that commitment to themselves right it's like we all know people that they think they're ready they're sober curious like my my son's friend Until you're ready, until you look in the mirror and go like, I am absolutely done with what I'm doing.

01:01:14.10
ian
This path is wrong. um You won't change. like like We can talk to war blue on our face to somebody and be like, I'm fine. I don't have a problem. And some people don't have problems with booze, like some of my closest circle.

01:01:26.71
ian
They drink. I have no problem with it. I don't push non-drinkers. If you want me to go grab your beer, I have no problem doing that. um See, the book was designed to just go make an impact on on people.

01:01:39.20
Bill
Right. and you know that And that's the thing, like i like I mentioned just a little bit ago, when but Mike and I started doing this, and really this was a point where, I'm going to step back a little bit. I started listening to audiobooks a little bit. so Speaking of the Foo Fighters, I listened to Dave Grohl's audiobook, and that would have been...

01:01:57.94
Bill
I don't know, October, November of 21 or September, or October 21, something like that. And then I started on my way back and forth to work. At the time I had on the way home, I had like a fed, depending on traffic, 40 to 30 to 45 minute commute.

01:02:14.01
Bill
And um again, same thing. You talk about traffic and all that stuff. And I used to get sometimes get just frustrated. I'm like, I stamped traffic. So I started listening to this sobriety podcast.

01:02:25.75
Bill
And when Mike and I, ah Mike and I are family, I mean, we're, we're not, but we are, you know, we're not like family by, you know, but we weren't born family.

01:02:30.24
ian
who

01:02:33.07
ian
He's your brother.

01:02:34.07
Bill
It is BS. Yeah, absolutely. You know, so, um you know, holidays and all stuff where we're all family, but um so we're together here at my sister's house at Thanksgiving that year. So of 2021 And, you know, basically I'm telling about this podcast and we're going back and forth.

01:02:49.61
Bill
And, you know, i said to him, i'm like, like, we could do that. Couldn't we? And he's like, what? I'm like, we could talk a bunch of shit into a microphone.

01:02:55.45
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:02:57.27
Bill
And he's like, he's like, well, of course we could. So we're like, yeah, let's do that. And then we procrastinated, you know, so that was Thanksgiving. So in in November, we didn't launch our first episode until February 28th of 22.

01:03:11.43
Bill
You know, so we've been doing it now for three, three and a half years are coming up on it.

01:03:13.39
ian
here

01:03:15.04
Bill
Um, and we had no idea what we're doing. Um, did it all. Like I said, we're on our phones. We're using anchor, which is now Spotify for podcasters. This long process got these studios.

01:03:25.11
Bill
We use one before this and now into this, you know, so we're learning all this stuff along the way, but we're still, we wanted to keep it simple.

01:03:27.51
ian
Oh, oh.

01:03:32.10
Bill
Um, but we also realized that again, like the audio, we want to make the audio right for people. Um, but, To begin with, we're like, that you know, it's just us. We got together. We just started telling stories. We're like, this will be great if people listen.

01:03:44.17
Bill
And every once in a while in the beginning, like in that first six months, we'd get we get a comment or, you know, yours people we knew, you know, was saying, hey, we don't listen to you or a friend of a friend told us they'd listen to you.

01:03:55.07
Bill
We were getting comments from people who were not in recovery. Just, you know, random normal people out there saying, you know what? we're not, I'm not sober, but you know, you're giving us life lessons.

01:04:02.10
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:04:05.17
Bill
And I mean, those were the things, even to this day, we don't get a lot of emails. we don't get a lot of comments. ah We don't get a lot of things like that, but the when we do, it means so much. And that was the point, like you said, um we know that it's, it's hitting people. We know there's, there's this core group of people that listen to us all the time.

01:04:23.67
Bill
We know for a fact that it's helping people in what way, what, what exactly are we saying? I don't know, you know, but we know it's helping people, but that's the key.

01:04:31.88
ian
Right.

01:04:31.98
Bill
And whether we're, you know, whether we grow to a huge podcast, which we are not, or whether we stay small get even smaller, even if there's a ah handful of people out there that are listening, it's the same thing. When we go to, even though you haven't like it AA meetings can be, you know, 300 people or it could be three people.

01:04:48.13
Bill
You know, you get an everywhere in between, but you know, in ah in a meeting where there's three people, if that, if one of those three people shows up and the other two aren't there, that's a problem, you know, you know, because that, that person needs, that needs that help.

01:04:48.16
ian
Right.

01:04:55.50
ian
Mm hmm.

01:05:01.02
Bill
It needs that community. So I love the fact that you would, you know, basically your, your book is out there to, you know, again, when one person, two people is probably helping more people than that.

01:05:07.85
ian
I've,

01:05:10.98
Bill
I'm sure it is, but that having that goal, like you said, now you're stacking the same thing with your goals on on the book, right?

01:05:17.03
ian
Right? Yeah. And it's it's it's, like you said, it's so heartwarming that you are making an impact on, and there's such a ripple effect, right? Like you used the analogy with whether it's three people or 300 people in a room, it's a way bigger ripple than we even realize.

01:05:26.32
Bill
Right. Right.

01:05:32.73
ian
ah And just the example that you you you're doing for your kids, like you don't understand that ripple yet that that it's even happening. ah And it's that delayed gratification of like, all the people you're making an impact on, you don't even realize it.

01:05:47.77
ian
which is, which is so awesome.

01:05:47.82
Bill
right

01:05:49.79
ian
Um, and that's why you're, you do it. You continue to it three years and in going, you know, and in 12 years, when I'm back on this podcast, we'll be, we'll be talking about, you know, even a bigger impact that, that you've made in the world.

01:06:02.64
ian
Um, which is so awesome.

01:06:04.94
Bill
Yeah, it's just that it's it's a lot of fun, too. And it's ah we've been honest about it, too, that if um if this if it if it ever gets to the point where this isn't fun for us, we want to have fun. We want to help people.

01:06:15.10
Bill
But we also we have to enjoy this. And if for if for whatever reason it it becomes where it's not fun, we're not just going to disappear.

01:06:19.26
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:06:22.19
Bill
There's been a couple of podcasts. It was one I was listening to. I'm not going to bring up the name of it, but um they started either... Around the same time as us, so shortly after that, I think probably shortly, a few months after we did, it it was a male and a female, and they had really good chemistry, and it was a great podcast.

01:06:38.54
Bill
They took a break at one point because, the as it turned out, one of the hosts um basically had wanted to deal with their their mental health and took a break from the podcast, took care of themselves, and then came back. They didn't explain that until they came back, but I'm like, okay, I get it.

01:06:53.00
Bill
um but then when they came back it just i went in they used to release every thursday and i'd listen to it religiously um went in there and it wasn't there and then i'm looking around and it's not there the next week and the next week i'm like what the hell happened so did a little bit searching they just uh they got together one night the two of them were about to record and they they kind of looked at each other you know because they were doing video at the time and like you know what is this is this really like bringing you anything anymore and he said no she said they're like well we're not doing it anymore

01:06:53.21
ian
yeah

01:07:21.44
Bill
And I brought it up to Mike and I'm like, I sort of get it, but part of it bothers me. And he said, well, he goes in the, he brought up the part, the part about, um you know, the, the commitment, you know, that he and I made the commitment that we have and the commitment in the recovery community and that sort of thing.

01:07:37.04
Bill
There's a lot of people that, you know, that, that counted on them at the same thing. It's like, like that three people that went to the meeting and all a sudden the meeting's not there anymore. Now, if they wanted to quit, no doubt, but to to Mike's point, and I agree with him after I thought about it, was if we're going to be done with this, we'll get on here. We're like, you know what?

01:07:53.07
Bill
Here's the deal. Here's our wind down. um and Because we want to be accountable these days, I guess is my point. Right.

01:07:58.51
ian
Right? Yeah, so it's so easy to just quit. um

01:08:02.25
Bill
Right.

01:08:03.04
ian
And you don't realize how many people you're quitting on.

01:08:06.56
Bill
Right.

01:08:07.32
ian
and And for you guys, it's like the brotherhood you and Mike have is like, it it's something you guys probably absolutely look forward to do every week.

01:08:18.55
Bill
Yeah, I mean, some sometimes both of us, it's it's funny. will We start off the podcast and, you know, he works he works far longer hours than I do. I've got basically, ah you know, an eight to five type of job these days. And that's what I want. I was in management and training and all that garbage for years. And now I'm i'm not ah technically, I guess i'm ah I'm a clock puncher, but I got a remote job and I've got freedom and I like it that way.

01:08:39.10
Bill
Um, you know, but so he works a lot of long days and we'll start off and sometimes it's, you know, just that's, we don't talk a lot before the podcast. We me just, everything we got, we just kind of unload on here, but which is fun, you know, but, uh, you know, sometimes it's like, how you doing? He's like, uh, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I do.

01:08:54.96
Bill
And I'm like, you ready to start. And he's like, whatever. yeah

01:08:57.92
ian
Well, people appreciate...

01:08:58.12
Bill
But you know, both of us said, um,

01:09:00.37
ian
the That you're real, right? Like the podcast you were talking about is like, why didn't they talk about their mental health issues?

01:09:03.68
Bill
right

01:09:06.29
ian
Because, oh my God, that's a whole other issue, right? That people could probably resonate that if you're going through something, people like real life.

01:09:11.14
Bill
Right.

01:09:13.95
ian
They don't want to see you know all this social media stuff. or Somebody's on a beach again, or they're traveling, or people are getting on these fucking jets, or they're in front of a Lambo. Like... People can resonate with reality, right?

01:09:22.80
Bill
Right. Mm-hmm.

01:09:25.55
ian
That I had a bad day with my kid. i had you know ah Bad days happen, right? But or is it a really a bad day or did you have a bad moment?

01:09:32.03
Bill
right

01:09:33.08
ian
like Talk through that. And people would resonate with that and be like, oh shit, you know what? I let this stupid thing ruin my entire day. Oh my God, that was dumb of me, right? So if you the more real you are on these podcasts,

01:09:45.09
ian
the more people resonate. And like you said, it's not just people that are battling a sober journey. People are battling a life journey. Life happens in all aspects.

01:09:54.85
Bill
right

01:09:56.52
ian
like People can resonate with your kids of like, I didn't talk to my daughter for X amount of time. like That will hit somebody. And keep keep doing what you're doing because you guys are just, you're real.

01:10:06.03
Bill
right

01:10:09.85
ian
Like yeah yeah there's nothing, you're not preaching sobriety all the time. You guys are sharing your stories of real life, which people really, really need and resonate with.

01:10:20.69
Bill
right

01:10:25.41
Bill
Yeah. And you know what? I mean, that's the way that the the way that we I mean, yeah, we have people telling us the way it the way it needed to be. But, um you know, we we never had people around us that were preachy. You know, they people will grab our hands and, you know, they they say, you know, we're don't worry, we're going to show you the way we'll show you what to do.

01:10:35.19
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:10:40.39
Bill
Just follow me type of thing, ah which is the way that we were taught. And and yeah, you know that I do. I've I've bounced in and out of a lot of different podcasts and. you know The ones that are just um you know that are are more of that this is this is black, this is white, this is the way it is, and this is the way it isn't.

01:10:56.38
ian
e

01:10:57.41
Bill
That's hard for me. just anyone who Just life in general, because there's always the variables. I mean, there's gray areas. Yeah, there's right and wrong.

01:11:04.52
ian
Wow.

01:11:04.58
Bill
Don't get me wrong about that. But you know there's there's life, like you said. and And that's why, like to begin with, we were talking about Getting sober is, it's not the easiest thing in the world, but when you when you stack that against the living life, a sober life, when you've been living a drunken life for 40 years, um it takes some work, you know? And the things that popped up in our lives over these last 15 years, um I didn't know how to deal with anything sober. I didn't know what I didn't know.

01:11:34.60
Bill
So, you know, 10 years down the road, all sudden something pops up and like, well, fuck. I don't know how to deal with this now, you know, but I know who to talk to.

01:11:40.57
ian
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:11:42.39
Bill
I can talk to Mike.

01:11:42.68
ian
Right.

01:11:43.19
Bill
I can talk to, you know, a friend. I can talk to a family member. You know, there's people and resources that, that we all have if we think about it, number one, but also we're, if we're treating people with, you know, dignity and respect, then, you know, people are out there to help us regardless of what happens. So we have the tools now, you know, to be able to, to be able to deal with that stuff, which is, which is amazing.

01:12:04.76
Bill
You know, it's absolutely amazing.

01:12:05.21
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:12:06.50
Bill
So quick question, though, with the um with the book itself. I mean, I know you said kind of a kind of an easy read, things like that is there. And this may be a hard question to answer. But if if somebody picked up the book today, um is it recommended they do start to finish when you because you said it not chapter based? Does that mean that somebody could pop into middle of book versus the end, the beginning, beginning? Or is it building on something throughout?

01:12:30.97
ian
It just kind of shares the story from, you know, it starts at the age of one when I was drinking. um You know, where was where did I get introduced alcohol?

01:12:38.00
Bill
Okay. Okay.

01:12:38.68
ian
So if and again, it's such an easy read. if If I wrote the book and thank God I had a ghostwriter help me, it would have been two pages and written like a caveman. Um, so he really helped me put this, put the stories together. Uh, but yeah, you, if you're a non-reader, you could read that book in an hour.

01:12:57.28
ian
Um, could you bounce, uh, again, they're not chapters or stories. You could go to story to story for sure. Um, and bounce around, but it's, it's such an easy read and there's pictures that kind of bring it together.

01:13:05.84
Bill
okay

01:13:08.38
ian
Also no coloring, unfortunately. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's ah it's a really easy read. And I was never a reader. I didn't and i think I read two books before i got sober.

01:13:16.99
Bill
Okay.

01:13:20.60
ian
And I've read so many books now. um It's insane. ah And it's an easy read. It's 144 pages, pages, something like that.

01:13:30.93
Bill
Right. Yeah.

01:13:35.55
Bill
Yeah. And I was, I just say, I think it's important because sometimes, I mean, there's been, there's been books that I've actually, I'm a huge audio book listener, you know, these days that it's not that I, I mean, not that I can't sit down and read a book, but it's weird.

01:13:43.89
ian
ye

01:13:48.39
Bill
um i I did a lot of reading when I was younger.

01:13:49.23
ian
Right.

01:13:50.63
Bill
When I first got sober, I had nothing better to do. I read book about book about books. I didn't know what else to do with myself. And then, um you know, again, like it's busier and whatever. And now what I if I sit down to read because at the end of the day, it's like that's my that's my chill time. I watch TV or do something like that. That's kind of my wind down time.

01:14:08.32
Bill
If I try to read or something like that, I get tired. ah But I.

01:14:11.01
ian
right

01:14:12.07
Bill
I drive with a little bit of the traveling that I do. I drive a lot and I'm like, audio books, man. So I started listening to a lot of um a lot of sobriety books in their stories, you know, like a lot of celebrities and and that sort of thing, musicians that that got sober, some that aren't, you know, but listening these stories and um it it kills the time, but it also just, I...

01:14:24.41
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:14:31.62
Bill
i I don't know. Again, I don't know what I don't know about life. I don't know what I don't know about, you know, these these people that interest me and they've got great stories. ah I don't care about the i mean, the the books that I've listened to, thankfully, nobody's been real braggy about it.

01:14:47.52
ian
Here you

01:14:47.81
Bill
They'll talk about, you know, money they've made and that sort of thing. But um I'm not into I don't want to read stories about like I wouldn't read about um the Kardashians. I mean, I don't know what they do to make billions.

01:14:56.72
ian
Right.

01:14:58.40
Bill
And I'm not taken away from the fact that what they built is a family. Um, but I don't have any desire to watch or read about them.

01:15:05.60
ian
Right.

01:15:05.65
Bill
That's, that's not my deal.

01:15:07.78
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:15:08.10
Bill
Um, but again, I, I don't, I have nothing against the Kardashians at all. More power to them. I mean, they're, they're doing their thing and they're making a ton of cash. Fine.

01:15:16.13
ian
Right.

01:15:16.56
Bill
You know, that's what, that's what the, you know, the American way is about, right?

01:15:21.17
ian
That's right.

01:15:21.38
Bill
Capitalism, whatever you want to call it.

01:15:21.94
ian
and Capitalism, for sure, yeah.

01:15:22.66
Bill
But, um,

01:15:27.23
Bill
but But yeah, just I'm interested by all that.

01:15:27.63
ian
I think it's good one.

01:15:29.27
Bill
But that's good. So the um obviously we talked about the story, talked about the book. um And you've got a business venture website. You want to touch on that? It's up to you. I mean, if you want to bring up anything else or, um you know, obviously anything else you want to talk about or anything more about the book. I mean, like I said, it's your time to bring this stuff up and get it out there.

01:15:47.56
ian
Yeah, my website is makeitgreat.me and it's just all about motivation. um But it's ah it's also all over my social media. If you if you followed it, E&P on you know TikTok or LinkedIn or Instagram, any of those, you'll just see a lot of one-minute videos of me talking about sobriety or motivation or you know not having a bad day or paying it forward or being kind.

01:16:12.57
ian
um you know Kindness is cool. So... um Yeah, I just put a lot of... yeah our Our world is so negative um out there. I don't watch the news.

01:16:24.54
ian
um it's It's, you know, you you control your world. I'm not absentee of it by no means, but I don't get... don't The news isn't on for two hours at my house, and I'm watching all this negative shit go on.

01:16:37.43
ian
There's... I feel my... you

01:16:39.42
Bill
Right.

01:16:40.37
ian
So many people, it it just consumes them. but i was I was reading something that three minutes of the news affects your day 27% negatively. It's like, why? Why? You know, it's like nothing good.

01:16:52.52
ian
It's all negative. It's all catastrophic. Oh my God, watch us at five.

01:16:54.37
Bill
right

01:16:55.16
ian
Guess what happened? The world's coming to an end. It's like, fucking stop. What good's going on in the world? um So I really try to push a super positive message out there and start your day ah with positive ah affirmations and gratitude and appreciation.

01:17:12.10
ian
ah Again, because there's just so much negative out in the world. we're just We're flooded with it no no matter where we go, whether you're scrolling or news or TV.

01:17:17.26
Bill
Right.

01:17:19.56
ian
If it' something's on TV, I promise you there's going to be something negative on there.

01:17:24.68
Bill
Right. Yeah. And that's a good point. I mean, I, I can't, I can't even remember. um our mom passed away. When did she coming up on three? Yeah. Coming up on three years ago now.

01:17:35.74
Bill
And she was always one that would sit down and watch the news. Our sister, you know, well listen, sometimes Sunday morning, a watch up, you know, some of the Sunday morning news shows.

01:17:38.22
ian
Yep.

01:17:43.21
Bill
Um, I can't remember the last time that I've watched a new show. Now I'm on, I do a lot on Instagram. I'm on there on a semi, a lot, I'll say a semi, a lot basis with the, with this, you know, the podcast stuff.

01:17:55.50
ian
yep

01:17:55.93
Bill
um Plus I do the traveling. So I've got my, I've got the modern day hobo thing that I do. So I do a little bit of that on that page.

01:18:00.78
ian
oh

01:18:02.06
Bill
I'm trying to build that page up. But you know, the, the thing of it is, is i ah between my personal Facebook page, which I spent very little time on Facebook anymore, Um, Instagram, you know, between those two things.

01:18:14.65
Bill
And then listening to, I listened to a, uh, uh, radio morning show in Milwaukee. Cause I lived there for years. so Those guys are still on so I can stream it. Um, but between those three things, I'll hear about things. I'm not, I'm not under a rock, but the same deal. If I hear something, I'll, I'll look into it. I'll read up on it where I, where I want to read up on it, you know?

01:18:34.66
ian
right

01:18:35.17
Bill
And um in same deal, i'll so I'll see a headline about something that you know is is tragic. So at least I know what's going on type of thing. But yeah, I can't remember the last time that I sat down and and watched. its It does. it would i I didn't even know if it would, I was going to say it would it wouldn't even enrage me anymore because I just don't have that.

01:18:54.01
Bill
I'm not invested that much into all that negative stuff that I just don't think that, I don't know. I don't have the i don't have the time or the the mental capacity to even entertain all that stuff anymore. You know.

01:19:05.67
ian
Yeah. My mom passed away at 85 this last, ah right before Christmas. And the news is on 24 seven on their TV.

01:19:11.00
Bill
OK. Right.

01:19:14.43
ian
And it so affected my parents and they, they didn't even realize it of just how worried and negative everything was.

01:19:20.89
Bill
right

01:19:25.30
ian
And it drove me crazy. Uh, when I'd go visit her, I'd turn the TV off and she's like, Oh, I just turned the news on. I'm like, the the news logos burned into your TV screen, mom.

01:19:37.32
ian
And it was just so negative.

01:19:38.23
Bill
yeah

01:19:40.59
ian
And it worried the living shit out of my mom, like to go out the front door, but like, Oh my God, you know what? Some, somebody, something's going to happen. You're going to get hit by a car. Like it was so negative.

01:19:50.00
Bill
Right.

01:19:49.99
ian
And, It's a horrible way to live. And if you go look for the good, you'll find the good. If you look for the bad, you'll find the bad. So try to change that mindset to go look for the good because there is good out there.

01:20:00.16
Bill
Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah.

01:20:04.84
ian
We just don't realize it because we're so flooded with negative.

01:20:06.20
Bill
Right.

01:20:09.81
ian
Yeah.

01:20:10.39
Bill
Yeah, I mean, i I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. So um just real quick, and I know we had kind of started off a little bit, mentioned Elise from the the Sober Curator to begin with.

01:20:18.75
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:20:20.00
Bill
um And so to step back a little bit, most of the people that have listened to us for any amount of time, Mike and I have been... sober curators now, um, coming up on, I think it has been two years.

01:20:32.15
Bill
think it's been two years, two years and a few months, couple of months, something like that.

01:20:34.64
ian
huh

01:20:35.60
Bill
Um, kind of a funny story how that all came about, but we've told it on here before we did. We kind of guilted lease and, uh, I, I called her out on social media cause she didn't, she didn't include us in a list of, uh, top, top male podcasts.

01:20:47.46
Bill
And basically I'm like, you know, who, whose leg do we have to hump to get on this, to get on this fucking list?

01:20:51.35
ian
but

01:20:52.68
Bill
And that's how we met her, you know? So, um, I, I called her out and she,

01:20:54.80
ian
Oh my god, that's awesome.

01:20:57.75
Bill
Yeah. And then she asked us to come on as curators. But um so the other thing, too, is that we become Lisa's been on here a couple of times. We've obviously become friends with her.

01:21:09.54
Bill
But she I also talked to her because I told her I'm like ah a couple of weeks ago or whatever it was.

01:21:10.06
ian
yep

01:21:14.81
Bill
I'm like, I'm like, Hey, we got this, we got this guy coming on. He's another author. You know, I said, Ian Fee, blah, blah, blah. I emailed her and she's like, no way. She goes, I'm talking to him on, on Wednesday. I think was maybe it was last weekend.

01:21:24.86
Bill
Cause was supposed to be, know, that's right.

01:21:25.42
ian
ye

01:21:26.43
Bill
I was out of town with family and I was going to hit a meeting that we were going to be um a sober curator meeting. She's like, I'm meeting with him on Wednesday. And she's like, so anyhow, this episode, once it comes out, she's going to put this, um, actually showcase it on the website so that the, this episode will be on the Sobey Curator also.

01:21:42.14
Bill
Um, though, and that's one of the ways that we contribute. If we get decent guests, um, we also put them up on there, but it's always nice when she either knows somebody or has done a companion piece or something like that. So,

01:21:53.78
Bill
So I didn't even get in, even have a chance to ask her how, I know you live in the area, but um so how did you guys even end up meeting or how did that happen?

01:22:03.18
ian
So great story. I was Googling um sober speaking, like, how can I just be more involved in my own community? And this gal just kept fucking popping up everywhere I Googled.

01:22:11.33
Bill
Right.

01:22:14.44
ian
And so I'm like, I want to meet this lady. So I emailed her ah and then I messaged

01:22:18.74
Bill
Right.

01:22:20.95
ian
I said, Hey, I'd just like, like to meet you and in and bring you one of my books. And if there's something I could do to, to help you and continue to carry this message. And ah so we met, we met downtown Seattle, sweetheart of a gal, brought her some hoodies ah and some trinkets and a book. And she gave me some awesome trinkets as well. And,

01:22:39.05
ian
ah We sat for an hour and just shared each other's story. and ah Great woman. We shared stories about our kids and our sobriety and and and what she's doing. and ah Amazing lady.

01:22:50.71
ian
Yeah, we hit it off really well. And I think you know we'll we'll catch up and do some lunches and dinners and and do do some stuff together to you know carry a message and and make an impact.

01:22:51.75
Bill
Yep.

01:22:59.54
ian
But yeah, sweetheart of a gal. But she pretty much owns Seattle.

01:23:02.34
Bill
Yeah.

01:23:02.47
ian
I mean, like if you Google her... It's I'm like, I got him. who Who is this chick, man? I got to meet this lady. Mm

01:23:09.87
Bill
Yeah. You know what the funny part is, is that I don't know she brought it up when she was talking to you, but she calls herself the, the sobriety, Kevin Bacon. That's her goal. She wants to be the sobriety, Kevin Bacon.

01:23:17.78
ian
hmm. Yep. She wants to meet Kevin. break Yep. Yep.

01:23:20.60
Bill
Yeah, the the whole, but I mean, it's like the the thing that is, and two things between her um and the the people that she has around her that um help her with the Sober Curator editors and all that stuff.

01:23:31.26
Bill
um She is a whiz at the whole SEO stuff. So to begin with, when um she'll, like when she puts this episode up on the Sober Curator,

01:23:35.32
ian
huh

01:23:41.95
Bill
It'll take usually um no more than two days. And if you search for um sober, not mature, this episode will be number one in our, in our search on Google.

01:23:50.13
ian
<unk>m like

01:23:52.86
Bill
That's how good she is at at putting that, that SEO stuff.

01:23:54.30
ian
Wow. She's amazing.

01:23:56.12
Bill
And,

01:23:56.16
ian
Yeah.

01:23:57.21
Bill
And it's so that's why when when you Google stuff like that, therere the keywords and the and the optimization and stuff like that, they've got things down to a science to draw to draw people in.

01:24:01.31
ian
to

01:24:06.51
Bill
um I don't do that. well I understand it a little bit if I really ah would help be helpful if I had somebody come in and go through our website and all that stuff. But um you know she's really good at it. so And she's a great resource.

01:24:19.10
Bill
She knows a lot of people, has helped a lot of people. um She's been...

01:24:21.51
ian
Mm-hmm for sure

01:24:23.03
Bill
she's a, I mean, plus she's a hell of a lot of fun. I mean, she's, plus she's nuts, you know, but in a, in a good way. Um, but we have a lot of, we have a lot of fun with her, but yeah, literally, you know, and, uh, like I said, I, I called her out on social media and then, uh, you know, she ended up messaging me and then we had her on the podcast and cause what she did was it shortly after that, she did the same thing to me.

01:24:35.02
ian
and sorry, but Aaron,

01:24:40.65
ian
I'm sorry.

01:24:42.78
Bill
She's like, whose leg do I have to hump to get on your podcast?

01:24:45.26
ian
Yeah.

01:24:45.67
Bill
And I'm like, okay, that's fair.

01:24:45.90
ian
Yeah.

01:24:46.87
Bill
Yeah. So, um so yeah, it's just been, it's been a lot it's been a lot of fun, but as far as the, like you, between your, your book and in the things you're talking about and that sort of thing, um it's a great website and a great community of people that to be involved with.

01:24:49.00
ian
yeah

01:25:03.61
Bill
So yeah, by all means, you know, stay in touch with her and you know, it'll, ah there's always, there's always people out there

01:25:06.39
ian
Yeah, absolutely.

01:25:10.04
Bill
you know to help out through that so it's yeah it was just

01:25:11.95
ian
Yeah.

01:25:12.64
Bill
it kind of blew my mind it's not it's not the first time that's happened you know with us and her that we end up with the with the same people which is weird because here's the other thing kind of as a quick side note and um whoever it is that you obviously deal with a company that helps you book some of these these podcasts correct

01:25:29.41
ian
Yep. Absolutely.

01:25:30.39
Bill
Okay. Um, and I think that in the last, probably in the last year, we might've been approached by, kind there was a time when I was, I was getting emails, like, I don't know, two, three a week, you know, from people, um,

01:25:43.83
ian
Mm-hmm.

01:25:45.42
Bill
And a lot of them were were authors, a lot of them were books, you know, and um some of them we'd look at them and just, you know, either ah nine times out of 10, I would respond and, you know, just say, hey, you know, this this doesn't seem to fit with what we're doing and and that sort of thing.

01:25:57.62
ian
Right.

01:25:57.96
Bill
Or, hey, you know, let's i be like I did in this situation. You know, I always run it by Mike. He and I talk about it. Sounds interesting. We we email back and then. I never hear from anyone, you know, so um we don't chase down guests hardly ever anymore.

01:26:09.32
ian
right

01:26:12.71
Bill
So it's it's always nice when when people approach us and, you know, we end up meeting, you know, meeting people like you. So it's it's been ah it's been a lot of fun. It really has been.

01:26:21.71
ian
Yeah, I appreciate you having me for sure.

01:26:23.59
Bill
All right. Oh, no, not at all. Not at all. I mean, God, thank you. Thank you for having, you know, obviously for taking the time and, you know, obviously coming on here. And like I said, it it would have been nice if Mike could have been on here.

01:26:35.46
Bill
But, you know, hey, maybe write another book or keep involved with the Sober Curator. We'll we'll get together again and one of these days.

01:26:41.10
ian
Yeah, I would love it.

01:26:42.13
Bill
so Kind of it in wrap up, um anything that we missed, um I mean, let's say the say in the name of your book again, give your website again, anything else you kind of want to plug on that. I will have your website in the description.

01:26:54.40
Bill
Obviously, I'll have your Instagram tag or your Instagram handle in there. I'll link to your book, but anything else, ah again, name your book again, but anything else you want to wrap up with before we go.

01:27:03.88
ian
Yeah, name of the book is Wild Rides of Sobriety um and then Ian Fee on any social media. And that's all I got. I can't thank you again for the messages messages that you guys are getting out there and making an impact on people. And I'm so grateful to to be on here with Ian to meet you. And I know we'll be in and contact for sure.

01:27:23.59
Bill
Yeah, absolutely. And like I say, I, I, I truly appreciate it too. And the thing of it is, and once again, the first time in, you know, 182 episodes that, you know, basically what Mike or I had to call in sick and it's, it was just like, like I told Mike, I'm like, you know what, it's a, it's a good thing that this happened.

01:27:35.84
ian
Right.

01:27:41.25
Bill
You know, obviously when we had a guest, it just, it does make it easier because you know, he and he and I play off each other really, really well. I mean, we've gotten to know each other and,

01:27:48.65
ian
Right.

01:27:49.87
Bill
Um, I wouldn't want to do this on my own quite honestly as a, just a standalone. I know a lot of podcasters do it. And that's not my thing. I can talk, you know, for an hour, but I don't want to. And, um, it's completely out of Mike's element. You know, he just, he can, he can talk.

01:28:04.06
Bill
There's nothing wrong with that, but, um, yeah, when he's not, he has no desire to do something like this on his own. So like you said last week, when we have the technical issues that, you know, there's a reason that we don't do any of this stuff alone.

01:28:14.76
Bill
Yeah.

01:28:15.72
ian
That's right. You're a great dream team. Great dream team coming together.

01:28:22.36
Bill
All right. So, Ian, stick around. Obviously, yeah when we hang up here, you and I will wrap up real quick. Everyone else, so you're going to have to wait until this is done. Listen to the recorded version of Mike's thing. The one thing I will say is that um unless, ah again, unless something weird happens, which I don't think it will, Mike will be back next week. It's he and I, and then you can join us then.

01:28:42.07
Bill
So, Ian, thank you again. Obviously, we appreciate it. And everyone else, thank you for listening. Bye.